June 12, 2025 • 30 mins
Kevin and Casey ask the million-dollar question: can you still give Rent a chance if Broadway makes you break out in hives? Kevin revisits his teen trip to the show, Casey dissects every riff like a forensic scientist, and together they wrestle with whether maximalist musical theater can still, well… pay the rent.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Give it a chance, Give it a chance, Give it
a chance. Good morning, give it a chance, Give it
a chance, Give it a chance, Give it a chance.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Good morning, Give it a Do you want to give
it a chance?
Speaker 3 (00:12):
Give it a chance, Give it a chance, just a chance. Greeting.
Speaker 4 (00:21):
I wish that people knew right before we started to
test the audio, I really cut loose chances for really,
it made me a little worried for what my participation
in this pod will be. Like I have to actually,
like believe it or not, I actually do try to
be somewhat self governing in our meetings. Casey and and
(00:42):
that was really ungoverned.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
Let me just put it like this. I took the
muzzle off the pug.
Speaker 4 (00:49):
I feel like, off the pug. I saw my friend's
elder rug.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
And yeah, that's good, you know I did.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
I think I just made that up. I think I
just to coin that. But it's so it's cute because
you know, there's not a lot of threat with a pug.
So like I knew that, like you're taking the muzzle
off you is really just gonna be just like maybe
too cute.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
It's too cute.
Speaker 4 (01:16):
I did do that. I did do that. I was
pointing out how it's like either like a girl in
a raisins box or a girl in a in a
in a sunscreen, not like a like a hot girl.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
Like yeah, like a like the like the like the
prettiest girl in town, like the prettiest girl in any
small town.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
That's an Owl's lyric.
Speaker 4 (01:35):
So it is the belly's.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
It's like he did rollers, but like you just stopped
halfway like halfway up.
Speaker 4 (01:43):
That's that's what happens to my fine fine like glowercase
fine fine as in thin, my fine hair in the humidity.
It's been a lifelong strug for you, boy. Yeah. Yeah,
the stuff I go through, dude. Actually, the stuff I
go through is we'll do another pod. It's like, give
(02:04):
it a chance. Call in the stuff Kevin goes to.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
That's on our patreon.
Speaker 4 (02:09):
Yeah yeah, by the way, subscribe to our patreon.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
We don't have that yet, but maybe someday.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Actually you should just join Kevin's because I'll put I'll
put any bonus stuff on there.
Speaker 4 (02:19):
I will say that people do come to the shows
that I play in my niche artist life, and they
do talk about the pod. Whoa were you drinking? Urine? Dog.
Speaker 3 (02:31):
This is dog urine, not urine dog.
Speaker 4 (02:34):
I don't know if you were drinking the cremated remains
of urine dog, everybody's favorite superhero dog, one of our sponsors.
Speaker 3 (02:40):
We got to hit a dog urine.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Get your electrolytes in a new way. Yeah, in the
old way, the way people men used to get their
electrolytes drinking dog piss. A natural filter system that will
get you to where you need to go every day.
Do you have that three thirty feeling?
Speaker 4 (02:58):
We'll shut up your dad's But this is that was
that was really inspired case. Thank you who Well, you know.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
I was acting a little bit, and you know I
like to act for the stage and I like to
overly nenunciate and speak through my songs. Oh no, okay,
we're taking it to Broadway.
Speaker 4 (03:23):
Oh okay.
Speaker 3 (03:26):
Well I think this is going to be controversial. This
is one of our This is going to be a
controversial app.
Speaker 4 (03:30):
I'm a little afraid if there's there's one property on
Broadway that is like Swiftian in people's response to it,
You're like not allowed. It's like a third rail. And
I have a lot of the predisposed thoughts and opinions
about it, which I also probably have to be mindful
of the fact that I live with a person who
(03:50):
that's what that's the medium in which they work. And
I have a lot of friends in these places. But
you know one thing, I guarantee the chances when they
come here they get the straight, straight shot shot.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
So well, let's say let's say that Broadway Anthony on
three at the same time, Ready that you think it
is three two one?
Speaker 3 (04:11):
No, it's not pouring in pest, but it's also not Hamilton.
Speaker 4 (04:14):
Oh is it wicked?
Speaker 3 (04:15):
No, I will say, I mean.
Speaker 4 (04:18):
We could do a Hamilton app behind.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
I think so too, Yeah, and I would.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
Yeah, I think that this has It's one of the
biggest cultural touchdowns of Broadway, you know, and I think
Hamilton followed in the footsteps in some ways, but a
very different category.
Speaker 4 (04:32):
Oh is this rent?
Speaker 3 (04:33):
It is that?
Speaker 4 (04:34):
So? That's so I got to tell you, can I
tell you a little right off the top? I know,
we you know, we try to try to keep these
somewhat governed and concise, I keep saying governed. I went
that's the first as a as an independent theater goer.
I went with friend of the Pod. I guess I've
(04:55):
seen it in a while. But friend of in real life,
you know her as well, Bridget Francis Staten Island, of course. Yeah,
in high school, she and I went to see Rent
nineteen ninety five. This would have been probably went to
Alfredo's for dinner on Highland Boulevard, yeah, and then took
the train to the ferry to the train to brought
(05:15):
to Rent. I was fifteen, fourteen or fifteen, and I've
had a lot of thoughts about Rent since, But yeah,
I have some hiss.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
What was your feeling when you saw it in nineteen
ninety five? Sorry, I'm getting since I'm getting choked up.
Speaker 4 (05:29):
It's emotional, dude. Honestly, at six million, sixty five, nine
hundred and say Carl Sagan Sagans, imagine that many Carl Sagans.
My original thought that I can remember thirty years later.
I think I was kind of more swept up in
like the context of going as a teenager, like doing
(05:52):
something like that, you know what I mean. It was
like like it was an outing, It was an event.
It was like you know, you know, I feel like
significance when you grew up where we grew up in
that part of our lives, it was more almost about
the like dinner train, ferry train show, You're in Manhattan
than the content of the show. I've always been theater
(06:13):
arts adjacent in my life. I've never been hardcore. There
are plays and playwrights and things I've liked more than
other things. There's style, genres, approaches. I've been somebody who,
on a rare occasion will like just go randomly walk
into some place downtown and see a play. But I'm
not like a fucking I'm not versed in it, so
(06:34):
I don't remember seeing it and being like that was
life changing. I have a vague recollection of like where
we were sitting, what it looked like, you know what
I mean. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know that.
I was like overwhelmed.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
So Lisa, my wife, she is the biggest fan of
that nole category, but specifically this this uh what's this
word for it?
Speaker 3 (06:58):
This project if.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Well, yeah, and it's it's kind of a fun. It's
fun because my feeling on it is like I think
it's it hits all these categories what we should listen
to it first, But it hits these things that I
think don't exist in other music, and it only happens
(07:20):
in for Broadway.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
So what I'm pulling out. I picked a.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Song that I think like has all the things that
the tropes that has already been parodied by like Team America,
World Place and stuff like that. It has all the
tropes in it that I'm like, I can't like if
you're not like well versed in this, you're like, what's.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
Going on this?
Speaker 1 (07:40):
We touched upon it a little bit with like imagine
dragons having elements of Broadway into their like rock music,
and that's like the only time that you're or like
the Greatest Showman, you know what I mean?
Speaker 4 (07:51):
Like it's yep.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
So yeah, without further ado, we're going to be listening
to the song Rent from Rent can't Wait.
Speaker 4 (07:59):
I probably haven't heard this on purpose in thirty years,
heard this on purpose, heard this the service.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
You can't you can't help be Hamilton.
Speaker 4 (08:09):
Oh well you have to. Maybe Hamilton might end up
catching some strays. All right, we gotta look at we're
looking up Rent from Rent from not the original motion
picture from the original Broaway Cast. All right, how don't up? Wow,
(08:31):
that's a journey.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
Yeah, so it's they really throw everything in like Broadway
loves to throw everything in.
Speaker 4 (08:39):
They really throw everything in. I almost feel like there's
a couple of like ground rules that should be set
in a conversation about this stuff. One is like for
context for our listeners that may not know, and they
make a reference in there about like when everything portrays,
including your own blood cells. Rent was like a very
much of its time, not that you could go Wikipedia
(09:01):
this or listen to whatever. We don't have to be
your point of education on this, but you know, it's
effectively about people who it's maybe in some ways thirty
years later, even more timely in some respects about like
not being able to afford life in New York City
on a variety of levels as an aspiring artist. As
it was kind of like a grittier more I don't know,
(09:23):
it was exploring certain themes more deeply, but like it's
kind of like a grittier Friends or something like that,
and same sort of font generationally and generative where it's
coming from. And also obviously it's wrestling with aids and
queer identity and class struggle, so all the props in
(09:43):
the world, as is typically the case for me for
this very subjective individual chancer when it comes to theater
and how theater interacts with issues in this country and
issues especially I feel like theatre's definitely been an agate
prop space for certainly class struggle over the years. Definitely
(10:04):
like sort of marginalized identity that is a only positive
thing from this super subjective you know, chancer. That being said,
you can uphold the mission of a thing and still
find yourself, you know. And then there's also like what
you like in art and entertainment, and so I just
wanted to set the table with that before we perhaps
(10:28):
you know, go in any further length with Win the
actual song itself.
Speaker 3 (10:32):
Yeah, and I really agree.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
I think that there are so many there's so many
aspects that are so forward thinking and positive about this
that I would really never want to take away because
I do think it really think about the audience that
it's opening up some of these ideas to you know,
the wealthy and people from all different walks of life
(10:55):
that go see a Broadway show and suddenly they're.
Speaker 4 (11:00):
Wings yeah yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
They're learning about people they never probably even thought about
or considered. And these roles are written so lovingly in
a way that you don't see all the time. So
and and the fact that it was so big and
was on Broadway for so long. It is such a
testament to the fact that, you know, anything that we
might say that we you know, that we do poop
(11:23):
on a little bit.
Speaker 3 (11:24):
It should never take away those aspects, you know.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
But but that happens sometimes, like with things like even
like two thousand and one a space Outysse is like
an incredible film, but it's not a film I want
to put on all the time, you knowtally yeah, yeah,
And there are aspects of it that I think, like
there's a lot of Kubrick stuff that I'm like, this
is so amazing, and I'm also like not chucking on Kubrick.
Speaker 4 (11:44):
Yeah, No, I mean, I think that's the difference between
I mean, I'm sure there are people who engage with
like higher brow art the way yeah, like we might
engage with something that's a little bit more like popcorner
or those people in my life experience have tended to
mostly be like droning bores. There's a pretension involved if
(12:07):
you're like, but you know, I also do think like
a balanced diet of browse has been a nice thing
to be exposed to over the course of life, and
there's value to like I might not want to put
on two thousand and one the way I would put
on like, I don't know, fucking Happy Gilmore or something
to like you know what I mean. But I think
(12:28):
that having both in the room is a cool thing,
and if you only had one, I think you'd be
missing something. Yeah, this is not even getting into rent
or the song yet, but it's like I was listening
to something recently where people were debating the merits of
Lou Reed, you know, and I think it's like a
completely valid vantage point to either be like Lou Read
(12:49):
is one of the great songwriters contributors to like the
last sixty years of like American rock music, and also
like art sort of like expanding the definition of what
a rock band and rock song could be. And there's
that famous quote developed Underground might not have sold a
million records, but they started a million bands. They basically
invented what we think of as like indie rock. Well
(13:10):
now we think of indie rock differently, but what was
often thought of as indie rock music sort of like
adventurism and anti commercialism or whatever. And then also there's
people if they're like Lou Reed sucks all of its garbage.
I get that too, because there's like it's like kind
of like I could see the value in both arguments there.
(13:32):
And I certainly don't put lou Reed on the way
I might put on like I don't know something that
is a little bit less of a like like metal
Machine music by lou Reed. Glad it exists, ye don't
need to listen to it for more than five minutes ever, ever, ever, ever, ever.
And there are people who can and do and will
(13:54):
and that's amazing. But that's not just I've always feel
like I've always been like trying when I try to
be one of those people. Deadlines, breadlines blow my mind,
and now this deadline eviction.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
Nor We don't really talk about this so much, but
we should because I think there's something to how your
ear is tuned right based on what other media you
absorb and what you've absorbed in the past. And so
people who have been like following Broadway for years have
a tuned ear so that when a song like this
(14:37):
starts and it's.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
Just like I'm the man who's gonna tell you the plot,
and then I don't really care what the bad guy
says like.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
That, to which could have.
Speaker 5 (14:47):
Been on User Illusion one or two by the way
as well, but like that, yeah, totally, but like for
it to be so sort of like also like fed
through this like really clear articulated actory lens, not like yeah,
not a cool rock singer who's like down playing it,
Like yeah, this is a person that has been trained
and has like been doing musical theater.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
Can can like has perfect pitch maybe and so and
you feel all that. And there's people who are like
it's like classical music where like you know, pep their
ear is tuned to hear everything and be like that's
the that's the perfect way to play chips Chaypowski.
Speaker 3 (15:24):
What am I trying to say? What Kaikowsky? It's really embarrassing.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
For you were talking about so music for a music
show for me to mess up Chika.
Speaker 4 (15:35):
We haven't given a chance to Tchaikovsky or Chaipovski.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
It's like I reached for it. I reached for it
and fill in my face.
Speaker 4 (15:41):
But that's why I love you. The reaching is the point.
Don't be afraid. Lots lots of the famous movements by
Chai Ti Lobsky.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
Anyway, keep it all in anyway, so you know the
tuned ear right, because there are people who are tuned
to Louie. There are people who are tuned to Bob Dylan,
and there are people who are tuned to STP and
there are people totally you know, And so I think
like it really for certain people who grew up with
this and understood it. Like like again, my wife has
(16:12):
this like incredible tuned ear for Broadway and especially that era,
and this changed her life in a.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
Lot of ways.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
She will say that this piece of media changed her life,
probably more than a lot of things. She was a
little girl and wanted to be in this cast. Yeah,
like find an eight year old in the audience and
be like, we need you to play one of these
like street kids, street you know, twenty year olds or something.
Speaker 4 (16:38):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, which is beautiful and like mega important.
And I'm sure there are a lot of people who
feel similarly to her about that had that same reaction
to it. I think that the person I went and
saw the play with when I was teenager definitely felt
that way about it as a as a kid in
high school that was doing theater after school, you know
(16:58):
what I mean, Like, I'm sure I know, and I
think that's an invaluable truth. And I think the thing
you're saying about the tuning of the ear is so yeah,
it just drives home the whole one of the main
central themes of this entire podcast and enterprise, which is
that there is nothing no matter what we ever say here,
it should always be engaged with in the broader context
(17:22):
of there is nothing more subjective than what somebody does
or doesn't like when it comes to art, music, theater, television, film,
like it's aesthetics, it's what you So your ear is tuned, right,
like I We've told this, We've talked this way on
the pod before, but like I it's even like I
(17:44):
was somebody who was like through my parents and through
my older siblings, like there was like songwriting and rock music,
songwriting and rock music. So my entry point for myself
is first a thing like Guns N' Roses, right, and
then it's like even then it's Nerva. But then even
through those two things, I hear Pavement for the first time,
and I'm authentically like, you're allowed to sound like this band,
(18:08):
Like it took tuning to even get from Nirvana to Pavement.
It definitely took tuning to get from Guns n' Roses
to Nirvana, you know what I mean? Sure, And so.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
Radiohead is like the biggest leap, but when you really
step back, you're like, it's not that far go.
Speaker 4 (18:23):
That's so funny you say this, We're really far field,
but all will come back. I think this is part
of what the mission here is. There's a song on
Okay Computer. I hadn't listened to that record all the
way through in a while, and I was on a
drive somewhere recently and I was like, you know what
I want to I want to put that on hmm.
And there's a song called Electioneering on that record. That's
the closest Radiohead ever gets to Guns n' Roses. You
(18:45):
listen to that song now with me having said that,
and I promise you you will hear what I'm talking about.
There's something in that there. I'm like, this is like
the closest. Because Axel Rose, for all of his horseshit,
had art pretensions too. He thought he was like and
he had some of this musical theater shit in the
mix with him too, probably by way of Queen, you
(19:05):
know what I mean. Like I totally assumed a lot
of Queen and anyway, The point is right there is
you make these these these tuning, these fine tuning changes
happen over the course of a life, and then some
things get retuned and revisited for me exactly what you identified,
exactly for better and for worse. And it is definitely
(19:26):
in some ways for worse. I have tuned some kind
of allergic response to kind of what animates even the
best musical theater. That might make me sound and totally
fair either like like a major blind spot. It's a
(19:48):
bummer for me because there's really beautiful, amazing things that
I'm sure I and also it might make me sound
like no fun, which I've got some feedback about certain
things about the way, you know, but there is something
about that thing, the hyper and unciative. We're moving the
plot forward, We're making sure to hammer through all these concerns.
(20:10):
It's both and again almost like sorry. One of the
things that I should have said almost the very beginning,
when we're talking about the social context of this music
is like everyone who's in something like rent is fucking
amazing at what they do there. They are life long
instruments who have been literally pursuing this actively at least
(20:33):
since junior high school, high school. But I've had an
interest in it probably since earlier than that, for sure,
and they've many of them have gone to the most estimable,
you know, institutions to arrive at this moment.
Speaker 3 (20:44):
They're shredders. They're all shredders, like they're all that's the
thing problem. They're at ten.
Speaker 4 (20:50):
And I personally, my tuning has been actually almost literally
the fucking opposite of that the whole thing to me,
And shredding's amazing, But the thing that's always been amazing
to me is when someone deploys that tastefully right for
(21:12):
thirty seconds in a piece of music, to say, I
could do that too, but I don't think it serves
the thing now. And I'll stop talking because I feel
like I've been talking for a while. Thank you. I
just mean to say, like, I think there's that's for me.
It's too much. It's like it's like, h it's like
(21:34):
to talk about two thousand and one. It's like the
streaming lights at the end. But if all of them
were just kind of like waving at me the whole
time too, there's just a point where I need to
like sit down and be like, damn.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
I couldn't agree more and I feel very similarly tuned.
And I was watching today like it just kind of
came up a video that was somebody, you know behind
the drum set the camera was behind, showing like how
Ringo played on Happiness Warm Gun.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
I think a song we've talked about and.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
We specifically Ringo's part on just Ringos parts, and it's
it's crazy simple. It's like it makes like Meg White
from the White Stripes look complicated.
Speaker 4 (22:11):
Yeah, it look like Neil Pert.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
Yeah, but but there are little sections here and there,
and there's that part that's like the Siberia jumped the Gun,
which is actually complicated, and that's like a great example
of it because what he does is so simple. It's
like he sometimes like it just hits the crash and
lets it ring for a while before he even goes
back to the high.
Speaker 3 (22:32):
Hat just to just to just to help.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
And also, you know, there's a lot of like do
Wop inspired stuff in that song, so I think he's
harkening back to that. And those players for sure were
reserved until they had to be you know, stuff that
came out of Motown. Like all these guys are shredders,
but they don't shred until they have to, you know,
So I think this song is like at a ten
for the entire time, and they're also like, let's put
(22:56):
let's let's like go you know, even try to even
call it verse verse and stuff. The whole ending has
like it's like there's A and B and then there's
like let's go see and then we'll do D next,
and then we'll do the E part, and then it's
like we'll harken back and then this will be reminded
of it, but we're doing a key change and everyone
will come and sing here, and then there's like a
huge choir that feels like the wall, you know, and
(23:18):
then it's like it's like, let's do everything in one song.
And then it's but it's amazing. It's it's amazing. It's
it's a it's fireworks. It's like you're watching a fireworks
show and you're suddenly like what is going It's disorienting
and you know, but also can kind of feel a
little long, but it's also amazing.
Speaker 3 (23:36):
Everybody's riffing and singing, belting. It's it's incredible.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
But and we talk about song structures sometimes and this
blow is probably anything we've ever had on this show
away in terms of just like the craftsmanship of like
thinking out these ideas and how it should harmonically go
and it's it's it's amazing, but it ain't punk rock.
Speaker 4 (24:09):
That's funny that you end on that as a joke
because part of also everything you just said totally resonates,
and also given the time in which this was made,
I also struggle with when musical theater does do genre
in this way that's like and this is like their
version of like, it's funny. When it started, I was
(24:31):
laughing because it's an inevitability and to the chances I apologize,
but I also you know, as they say sorry, not sorry,
the first thirty seconds of the song, you're like, oh right,
this is a musical theater writer reckoning with the fucking
aftermath of Nirvana. The first minute of that song is like, Oh,
that's like, that's what this person who went to I
(24:52):
don't know anything, but I'm assue I'm making some assumptions
the stuff that whether you went to or were born
and bred in a cultu that steeped in places like
Juilliard and and and the Performing School of the Arts,
and like these institutions in Berkeley and whatever else, Like
that's there's something about the way when those places are
(25:14):
interacting with things like punk music, hip underground. There's something
about it that I'm like, yeah, just it's not it's
not for.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
Me, because that's the thing they want to take that influence,
but also filter it's for a Broadway audience. So when
they were like you know, when it's like, uh, you know,
it's just like, uh, you know, I'm trying to think,
like trying to find like a I was.
Speaker 4 (25:43):
Chiv kobski is that you're thinking of, I'm.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
Trying to take like you know, it's like, well the
dogs can find her, Yeah, to live for tomorrow. It's
seen the thing it's taking, the taking the grunge, but
then trying to clean it up for a certain audience, right,
and sure you know it's and that to me is
like it's so fun. It's like it's but it's it
(26:09):
feels like it's a little cringe.
Speaker 4 (26:10):
Right.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
You're like, oh, like I don't think that was what
the intention was.
Speaker 4 (26:15):
Well, did you ever see the thing? It's like when
I guess there was a Bob Dylan musical in the
two thousands, Girl from the North Country. Maybe it was
earlier than that. It was not the one that was
out a couple of years ago, but it was a
musical on Broadway, I want to say, and maybe the Aughts,
I don't know, maybe And it's like they do the
cast performs their version of like a rolling stone on
(26:35):
like Ellen or something like that. It's like shout outs
catatonic youths. If you guys get.
Speaker 3 (26:42):
One of them.
Speaker 4 (26:44):
I'm certain that he has posted that.
Speaker 3 (26:47):
At something I have. That's why it sounds so familiar.
And I was like, where what have I seen it?
It is beyond.
Speaker 4 (26:53):
It's beyond. It's totally batshit and it's taking like whatever
was ever and Bob Dylan's a car you could pick
in any number of infinite directions, but whatever that was
is just like it's catastrophically besides the point. Yeah, and
and sort of a perversion of the point anyway. All
that is just to say this I fully accept and embrace,
(27:18):
like I could do a lyrical exitgesis we have you know,
we're coming to the close here of this. It's not
even the point. This is this kind of thing is masterly,
masterfully done, a cultural touchstone, and I fully and important
in its politics important in its existence, and I fully
(27:38):
accept the fact that I am weirdly immune to its
charms and seem to have been for length of life.
It is never going to be a thing, I don't think,
and I hope maybe more'll be revealed my tuning continues,
but I don't think this is ever going to be
the genre for me that I am. Like. I both
(28:01):
it's like marveling. It's something that is very beautifully constructed
that you have absolutely no attraction to whatsoever. That's true
of people, right, that's aesthetics as well. You could see
somebody that is like thought of as like universally beautiful
and just nothing in you moves at all, no heart race,
no blood pump. You're just kind of like that person's
(28:24):
it's like looking at a really pretty shard of glass
or something. I don't know, it doesn't really That's how
I feel. And Rent is probably like at the top
of the list of like it's really great, But I'm
also just like I hear it and I'm like, thank
god Lisa had this experience with it, and so many
other people did as well. I mean that, and there's
(28:45):
things I feel that way about that I'm sure those
people would be like, who gives a shit about that
at all?
Speaker 1 (28:50):
And there are songs in this show that like there's
that song like one song Glory, one song before the
virus takes hold, like.
Speaker 3 (28:59):
It's stripped down and it's exactly what we're talking about.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
Yeah, And so so this is to me the biggest,
biggest example of like it turned up all the way
and it's like a little too much for me, but
it has really cool stuff. And and also like if
you look at Rocky Horror, right, I think like they
do this.
Speaker 4 (29:16):
There's a little Rocky Horror in this for sure.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
I think led the way for something like this. But
they're also even tongue in cheek about it, right, like
they're they're they're having a little bit fun with it camp.
Speaker 4 (29:26):
It's fully camp. Yeah, this is this And because this
has a serious message, you kind of yeah, I think
that the best thing to be said about it is
to me, it's like that word dynamics and this is
like they broke the dynamics knob off and just were
like it's almost like a mad scientist was like, you know,
just like yeah, and there's there's something to it, but
(29:50):
it's not it's it's something that I just it's it's
the look, it's baked into what it's meant to be.
It's on purpose. The ARTI of this stuff has always
been an impediment. You can make the argument everything's got artifice.
A guy getting up on the stage and an acoustic instrument
and a T shirt and jeans, there's artifice in that too.
Speaker 3 (30:10):
Tchaikowsky to Chatilowski, hoop.
Speaker 4 (30:13):
Change, heat, deity and everything.
Speaker 3 (30:15):
I say ye back to Hamilton.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
Wells, dominate me instead of subscribe. You're like, dominate me
all right, thanks, guys, Dominate me alright.
Speaker 4 (30:31):
Three hundred and six
Speaker 1 (30:35):
Ret Okay Live Strong Bracelets Guys A piece Forever, Live
Strong Bracelets Up.
Give it a chance, Give it a chance, Give it
a chance. Good morning, give it a chance, Give it
a chance, Give it a chance, Give it a chance.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Good morning, Give it a Do you want to give
it a chance?
Speaker 3 (00:12):
Give it a chance, Give it a chance, just a chance. Greeting.
Speaker 4 (00:21):
I wish that people knew right before we started to
test the audio, I really cut loose chances for really,
it made me a little worried for what my participation
in this pod will be. Like I have to actually,
like believe it or not, I actually do try to
be somewhat self governing in our meetings. Casey and and
(00:42):
that was really ungoverned.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
Let me just put it like this. I took the
muzzle off the pug.
Speaker 4 (00:49):
I feel like, off the pug. I saw my friend's
elder rug.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
And yeah, that's good, you know I did.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
I think I just made that up. I think I
just to coin that. But it's so it's cute because
you know, there's not a lot of threat with a pug.
So like I knew that, like you're taking the muzzle
off you is really just gonna be just like maybe
too cute.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
It's too cute.
Speaker 4 (01:16):
I did do that. I did do that. I was
pointing out how it's like either like a girl in
a raisins box or a girl in a in a
in a sunscreen, not like a like a hot girl.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
Like yeah, like a like the like the like the
prettiest girl in town, like the prettiest girl in any
small town.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
That's an Owl's lyric.
Speaker 4 (01:35):
So it is the belly's.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
It's like he did rollers, but like you just stopped
halfway like halfway up.
Speaker 4 (01:43):
That's that's what happens to my fine fine like glowercase
fine fine as in thin, my fine hair in the humidity.
It's been a lifelong strug for you, boy. Yeah. Yeah,
the stuff I go through, dude. Actually, the stuff I
go through is we'll do another pod. It's like, give
(02:04):
it a chance. Call in the stuff Kevin goes to.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
That's on our patreon.
Speaker 4 (02:09):
Yeah yeah, by the way, subscribe to our patreon.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
We don't have that yet, but maybe someday.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Actually you should just join Kevin's because I'll put I'll
put any bonus stuff on there.
Speaker 4 (02:19):
I will say that people do come to the shows
that I play in my niche artist life, and they
do talk about the pod. Whoa were you drinking? Urine? Dog.
Speaker 3 (02:31):
This is dog urine, not urine dog.
Speaker 4 (02:34):
I don't know if you were drinking the cremated remains
of urine dog, everybody's favorite superhero dog, one of our sponsors.
Speaker 3 (02:40):
We got to hit a dog urine.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Get your electrolytes in a new way. Yeah, in the
old way, the way people men used to get their
electrolytes drinking dog piss. A natural filter system that will
get you to where you need to go every day.
Do you have that three thirty feeling?
Speaker 4 (02:58):
We'll shut up your dad's But this is that was
that was really inspired case. Thank you who Well, you know.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
I was acting a little bit, and you know I
like to act for the stage and I like to
overly nenunciate and speak through my songs. Oh no, okay,
we're taking it to Broadway.
Speaker 4 (03:23):
Oh okay.
Speaker 3 (03:26):
Well I think this is going to be controversial. This
is one of our This is going to be a
controversial app.
Speaker 4 (03:30):
I'm a little afraid if there's there's one property on
Broadway that is like Swiftian in people's response to it,
You're like not allowed. It's like a third rail. And
I have a lot of the predisposed thoughts and opinions
about it, which I also probably have to be mindful
of the fact that I live with a person who
(03:50):
that's what that's the medium in which they work. And
I have a lot of friends in these places. But
you know one thing, I guarantee the chances when they
come here they get the straight, straight shot shot.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
So well, let's say let's say that Broadway Anthony on
three at the same time, Ready that you think it
is three two one?
Speaker 3 (04:11):
No, it's not pouring in pest, but it's also not Hamilton.
Speaker 4 (04:14):
Oh is it wicked?
Speaker 3 (04:15):
No, I will say, I mean.
Speaker 4 (04:18):
We could do a Hamilton app behind.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
I think so too, Yeah, and I would.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
Yeah, I think that this has It's one of the
biggest cultural touchdowns of Broadway, you know, and I think
Hamilton followed in the footsteps in some ways, but a
very different category.
Speaker 4 (04:32):
Oh is this rent?
Speaker 3 (04:33):
It is that?
Speaker 4 (04:34):
So? That's so I got to tell you, can I
tell you a little right off the top? I know,
we you know, we try to try to keep these
somewhat governed and concise, I keep saying governed. I went
that's the first as a as an independent theater goer.
I went with friend of the Pod. I guess I've
(04:55):
seen it in a while. But friend of in real life,
you know her as well, Bridget Francis Staten Island, of course. Yeah,
in high school, she and I went to see Rent
nineteen ninety five. This would have been probably went to
Alfredo's for dinner on Highland Boulevard, yeah, and then took
the train to the ferry to the train to brought
(05:15):
to Rent. I was fifteen, fourteen or fifteen, and I've
had a lot of thoughts about Rent since, But yeah,
I have some hiss.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
What was your feeling when you saw it in nineteen
ninety five? Sorry, I'm getting since I'm getting choked up.
Speaker 4 (05:29):
It's emotional, dude. Honestly, at six million, sixty five, nine
hundred and say Carl Sagan Sagans, imagine that many Carl Sagans.
My original thought that I can remember thirty years later.
I think I was kind of more swept up in
like the context of going as a teenager, like doing
(05:52):
something like that, you know what I mean. It was
like like it was an outing, It was an event.
It was like you know, you know, I feel like
significance when you grew up where we grew up in
that part of our lives, it was more almost about
the like dinner train, ferry train show, You're in Manhattan
than the content of the show. I've always been theater
(06:13):
arts adjacent in my life. I've never been hardcore. There
are plays and playwrights and things I've liked more than
other things. There's style, genres, approaches. I've been somebody who,
on a rare occasion will like just go randomly walk
into some place downtown and see a play. But I'm
not like a fucking I'm not versed in it, so
(06:34):
I don't remember seeing it and being like that was
life changing. I have a vague recollection of like where
we were sitting, what it looked like, you know what
I mean. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know that.
I was like overwhelmed.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
So Lisa, my wife, she is the biggest fan of
that nole category, but specifically this this uh what's this
word for it?
Speaker 3 (06:58):
This project if.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Well, yeah, and it's it's kind of a fun. It's
fun because my feeling on it is like I think
it's it hits all these categories what we should listen
to it first, But it hits these things that I
think don't exist in other music, and it only happens
(07:20):
in for Broadway.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
So what I'm pulling out. I picked a.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Song that I think like has all the things that
the tropes that has already been parodied by like Team America,
World Place and stuff like that. It has all the
tropes in it that I'm like, I can't like if
you're not like well versed in this, you're like, what's.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
Going on this?
Speaker 1 (07:40):
We touched upon it a little bit with like imagine
dragons having elements of Broadway into their like rock music,
and that's like the only time that you're or like
the Greatest Showman, you know what I mean?
Speaker 4 (07:51):
Like it's yep.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
So yeah, without further ado, we're going to be listening
to the song Rent from Rent can't Wait.
Speaker 4 (07:59):
I probably haven't heard this on purpose in thirty years,
heard this on purpose, heard this the service.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
You can't you can't help be Hamilton.
Speaker 4 (08:09):
Oh well you have to. Maybe Hamilton might end up
catching some strays. All right, we gotta look at we're
looking up Rent from Rent from not the original motion
picture from the original Broaway Cast. All right, how don't up? Wow,
(08:31):
that's a journey.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
Yeah, so it's they really throw everything in like Broadway
loves to throw everything in.
Speaker 4 (08:39):
They really throw everything in. I almost feel like there's
a couple of like ground rules that should be set
in a conversation about this stuff. One is like for
context for our listeners that may not know, and they
make a reference in there about like when everything portrays,
including your own blood cells. Rent was like a very
much of its time, not that you could go Wikipedia
(09:01):
this or listen to whatever. We don't have to be
your point of education on this, but you know, it's
effectively about people who it's maybe in some ways thirty
years later, even more timely in some respects about like
not being able to afford life in New York City
on a variety of levels as an aspiring artist. As
it was kind of like a grittier more I don't know,
(09:23):
it was exploring certain themes more deeply, but like it's
kind of like a grittier Friends or something like that,
and same sort of font generationally and generative where it's
coming from. And also obviously it's wrestling with aids and
queer identity and class struggle, so all the props in
(09:43):
the world, as is typically the case for me for
this very subjective individual chancer when it comes to theater
and how theater interacts with issues in this country and
issues especially I feel like theatre's definitely been an agate
prop space for certainly class struggle over the years. Definitely
(10:04):
like sort of marginalized identity that is a only positive
thing from this super subjective you know, chancer. That being said,
you can uphold the mission of a thing and still
find yourself, you know. And then there's also like what
you like in art and entertainment, and so I just
wanted to set the table with that before we perhaps
(10:28):
you know, go in any further length with Win the
actual song itself.
Speaker 3 (10:32):
Yeah, and I really agree.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
I think that there are so many there's so many
aspects that are so forward thinking and positive about this
that I would really never want to take away because
I do think it really think about the audience that
it's opening up some of these ideas to you know,
the wealthy and people from all different walks of life
(10:55):
that go see a Broadway show and suddenly they're.
Speaker 4 (11:00):
Wings yeah yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
They're learning about people they never probably even thought about
or considered. And these roles are written so lovingly in
a way that you don't see all the time. So
and and the fact that it was so big and
was on Broadway for so long. It is such a
testament to the fact that, you know, anything that we
might say that we you know, that we do poop
(11:23):
on a little bit.
Speaker 3 (11:24):
It should never take away those aspects, you know.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
But but that happens sometimes, like with things like even
like two thousand and one a space Outysse is like
an incredible film, but it's not a film I want
to put on all the time, you knowtally yeah, yeah,
And there are aspects of it that I think, like
there's a lot of Kubrick stuff that I'm like, this
is so amazing, and I'm also like not chucking on Kubrick.
Speaker 4 (11:44):
Yeah, No, I mean, I think that's the difference between
I mean, I'm sure there are people who engage with
like higher brow art the way yeah, like we might
engage with something that's a little bit more like popcorner
or those people in my life experience have tended to
mostly be like droning bores. There's a pretension involved if
(12:07):
you're like, but you know, I also do think like
a balanced diet of browse has been a nice thing
to be exposed to over the course of life, and
there's value to like I might not want to put
on two thousand and one the way I would put
on like, I don't know, fucking Happy Gilmore or something
to like you know what I mean. But I think
(12:28):
that having both in the room is a cool thing,
and if you only had one, I think you'd be
missing something. Yeah, this is not even getting into rent
or the song yet, but it's like I was listening
to something recently where people were debating the merits of
Lou Reed, you know, and I think it's like a
completely valid vantage point to either be like Lou Read
(12:49):
is one of the great songwriters contributors to like the
last sixty years of like American rock music, and also
like art sort of like expanding the definition of what
a rock band and rock song could be. And there's
that famous quote developed Underground might not have sold a
million records, but they started a million bands. They basically
invented what we think of as like indie rock. Well
(13:10):
now we think of indie rock differently, but what was
often thought of as indie rock music sort of like
adventurism and anti commercialism or whatever. And then also there's
people if they're like Lou Reed sucks all of its garbage.
I get that too, because there's like it's like kind
of like I could see the value in both arguments there.
(13:32):
And I certainly don't put lou Reed on the way
I might put on like I don't know something that
is a little bit less of a like like metal
Machine music by lou Reed. Glad it exists, ye don't
need to listen to it for more than five minutes ever, ever, ever, ever, ever.
And there are people who can and do and will
(13:54):
and that's amazing. But that's not just I've always feel
like I've always been like trying when I try to
be one of those people. Deadlines, breadlines blow my mind,
and now this deadline eviction.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
Nor We don't really talk about this so much, but
we should because I think there's something to how your
ear is tuned right based on what other media you
absorb and what you've absorbed in the past. And so
people who have been like following Broadway for years have
a tuned ear so that when a song like this
(14:37):
starts and it's.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
Just like I'm the man who's gonna tell you the plot,
and then I don't really care what the bad guy
says like.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
That, to which could have.
Speaker 5 (14:47):
Been on User Illusion one or two by the way
as well, but like that, yeah, totally, but like for
it to be so sort of like also like fed
through this like really clear articulated actory lens, not like yeah,
not a cool rock singer who's like down playing it,
Like yeah, this is a person that has been trained
and has like been doing musical theater.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
Can can like has perfect pitch maybe and so and
you feel all that. And there's people who are like
it's like classical music where like you know, pep their
ear is tuned to hear everything and be like that's
the that's the perfect way to play chips Chaypowski.
Speaker 3 (15:24):
What am I trying to say? What Kaikowsky? It's really embarrassing.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
For you were talking about so music for a music
show for me to mess up Chika.
Speaker 4 (15:35):
We haven't given a chance to Tchaikovsky or Chaipovski.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
It's like I reached for it. I reached for it
and fill in my face.
Speaker 4 (15:41):
But that's why I love you. The reaching is the point.
Don't be afraid. Lots lots of the famous movements by
Chai Ti Lobsky.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
Anyway, keep it all in anyway, so you know the
tuned ear right, because there are people who are tuned
to Louie. There are people who are tuned to Bob Dylan,
and there are people who are tuned to STP and
there are people totally you know, And so I think
like it really for certain people who grew up with
this and understood it. Like like again, my wife has
(16:12):
this like incredible tuned ear for Broadway and especially that era,
and this changed her life in a.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
Lot of ways.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
She will say that this piece of media changed her life,
probably more than a lot of things. She was a
little girl and wanted to be in this cast. Yeah,
like find an eight year old in the audience and
be like, we need you to play one of these
like street kids, street you know, twenty year olds or something.
Speaker 4 (16:38):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, which is beautiful and like mega important.
And I'm sure there are a lot of people who
feel similarly to her about that had that same reaction
to it. I think that the person I went and
saw the play with when I was teenager definitely felt
that way about it as a as a kid in
high school that was doing theater after school, you know
(16:58):
what I mean, Like, I'm sure I know, and I
think that's an invaluable truth. And I think the thing
you're saying about the tuning of the ear is so yeah,
it just drives home the whole one of the main
central themes of this entire podcast and enterprise, which is
that there is nothing no matter what we ever say here,
it should always be engaged with in the broader context
(17:22):
of there is nothing more subjective than what somebody does
or doesn't like when it comes to art, music, theater, television, film,
like it's aesthetics, it's what you So your ear is tuned, right,
like I We've told this, We've talked this way on
the pod before, but like I it's even like I
(17:44):
was somebody who was like through my parents and through
my older siblings, like there was like songwriting and rock music,
songwriting and rock music. So my entry point for myself
is first a thing like Guns N' Roses, right, and
then it's like even then it's Nerva. But then even
through those two things, I hear Pavement for the first time,
and I'm authentically like, you're allowed to sound like this band,
(18:08):
Like it took tuning to even get from Nirvana to Pavement.
It definitely took tuning to get from Guns n' Roses
to Nirvana, you know what I mean? Sure, And so.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
Radiohead is like the biggest leap, but when you really
step back, you're like, it's not that far go.
Speaker 4 (18:23):
That's so funny you say this, We're really far field,
but all will come back. I think this is part
of what the mission here is. There's a song on
Okay Computer. I hadn't listened to that record all the
way through in a while, and I was on a
drive somewhere recently and I was like, you know what
I want to I want to put that on hmm.
And there's a song called Electioneering on that record. That's
the closest Radiohead ever gets to Guns n' Roses. You
(18:45):
listen to that song now with me having said that,
and I promise you you will hear what I'm talking about.
There's something in that there. I'm like, this is like
the closest. Because Axel Rose, for all of his horseshit,
had art pretensions too. He thought he was like and
he had some of this musical theater shit in the
mix with him too, probably by way of Queen, you
(19:05):
know what I mean. Like I totally assumed a lot
of Queen and anyway, The point is right there is
you make these these these tuning, these fine tuning changes
happen over the course of a life, and then some
things get retuned and revisited for me exactly what you identified,
exactly for better and for worse. And it is definitely
(19:26):
in some ways for worse. I have tuned some kind
of allergic response to kind of what animates even the
best musical theater. That might make me sound and totally
fair either like like a major blind spot. It's a
(19:48):
bummer for me because there's really beautiful, amazing things that
I'm sure I and also it might make me sound
like no fun, which I've got some feedback about certain
things about the way, you know, but there is something
about that thing, the hyper and unciative. We're moving the
plot forward, We're making sure to hammer through all these concerns.
(20:10):
It's both and again almost like sorry. One of the
things that I should have said almost the very beginning,
when we're talking about the social context of this music
is like everyone who's in something like rent is fucking
amazing at what they do there. They are life long
instruments who have been literally pursuing this actively at least
(20:33):
since junior high school, high school. But I've had an
interest in it probably since earlier than that, for sure,
and they've many of them have gone to the most estimable,
you know, institutions to arrive at this moment.
Speaker 3 (20:44):
They're shredders. They're all shredders, like they're all that's the
thing problem. They're at ten.
Speaker 4 (20:50):
And I personally, my tuning has been actually almost literally
the fucking opposite of that the whole thing to me,
And shredding's amazing, But the thing that's always been amazing
to me is when someone deploys that tastefully right for
(21:12):
thirty seconds in a piece of music, to say, I
could do that too, but I don't think it serves
the thing now. And I'll stop talking because I feel
like I've been talking for a while. Thank you. I
just mean to say, like, I think there's that's for me.
It's too much. It's like it's like, h it's like
(21:34):
to talk about two thousand and one. It's like the
streaming lights at the end. But if all of them
were just kind of like waving at me the whole
time too, there's just a point where I need to
like sit down and be like, damn.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
I couldn't agree more and I feel very similarly tuned.
And I was watching today like it just kind of
came up a video that was somebody, you know behind
the drum set the camera was behind, showing like how
Ringo played on Happiness Warm Gun.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
I think a song we've talked about and.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
We specifically Ringo's part on just Ringos parts, and it's
it's crazy simple. It's like it makes like Meg White
from the White Stripes look complicated.
Speaker 4 (22:11):
Yeah, it look like Neil Pert.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
Yeah, but but there are little sections here and there,
and there's that part that's like the Siberia jumped the Gun,
which is actually complicated, and that's like a great example
of it because what he does is so simple. It's
like he sometimes like it just hits the crash and
lets it ring for a while before he even goes
back to the high.
Speaker 3 (22:32):
Hat just to just to just to help.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
And also, you know, there's a lot of like do
Wop inspired stuff in that song, so I think he's
harkening back to that. And those players for sure were
reserved until they had to be you know, stuff that
came out of Motown. Like all these guys are shredders,
but they don't shred until they have to, you know,
So I think this song is like at a ten
for the entire time, and they're also like, let's put
(22:56):
let's let's like go you know, even try to even
call it verse verse and stuff. The whole ending has
like it's like there's A and B and then there's
like let's go see and then we'll do D next,
and then we'll do the E part, and then it's
like we'll harken back and then this will be reminded
of it, but we're doing a key change and everyone
will come and sing here, and then there's like a
huge choir that feels like the wall, you know, and
(23:18):
then it's like it's like, let's do everything in one song.
And then it's but it's amazing. It's it's amazing. It's
it's a it's fireworks. It's like you're watching a fireworks
show and you're suddenly like what is going It's disorienting
and you know, but also can kind of feel a
little long, but it's also amazing.
Speaker 3 (23:36):
Everybody's riffing and singing, belting. It's it's incredible.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
But and we talk about song structures sometimes and this
blow is probably anything we've ever had on this show
away in terms of just like the craftsmanship of like
thinking out these ideas and how it should harmonically go
and it's it's it's amazing, but it ain't punk rock.
Speaker 4 (24:09):
That's funny that you end on that as a joke
because part of also everything you just said totally resonates,
and also given the time in which this was made,
I also struggle with when musical theater does do genre
in this way that's like and this is like their
version of like, it's funny. When it started, I was
(24:31):
laughing because it's an inevitability and to the chances I apologize,
but I also you know, as they say sorry, not sorry,
the first thirty seconds of the song, you're like, oh right,
this is a musical theater writer reckoning with the fucking
aftermath of Nirvana. The first minute of that song is like, Oh,
that's like, that's what this person who went to I
(24:52):
don't know anything, but I'm assue I'm making some assumptions
the stuff that whether you went to or were born
and bred in a cultu that steeped in places like
Juilliard and and and the Performing School of the Arts,
and like these institutions in Berkeley and whatever else, Like
that's there's something about the way when those places are
(25:14):
interacting with things like punk music, hip underground. There's something
about it that I'm like, yeah, just it's not it's
not for.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
Me, because that's the thing they want to take that influence,
but also filter it's for a Broadway audience. So when
they were like you know, when it's like, uh, you know,
it's just like, uh, you know, I'm trying to think,
like trying to find like a I was.
Speaker 4 (25:43):
Chiv kobski is that you're thinking of, I'm.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
Trying to take like you know, it's like, well the
dogs can find her, Yeah, to live for tomorrow. It's
seen the thing it's taking, the taking the grunge, but
then trying to clean it up for a certain audience, right,
and sure you know it's and that to me is
like it's so fun. It's like it's but it's it
(26:09):
feels like it's a little cringe.
Speaker 4 (26:10):
Right.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
You're like, oh, like I don't think that was what
the intention was.
Speaker 4 (26:15):
Well, did you ever see the thing? It's like when
I guess there was a Bob Dylan musical in the
two thousands, Girl from the North Country. Maybe it was
earlier than that. It was not the one that was
out a couple of years ago, but it was a
musical on Broadway, I want to say, and maybe the Aughts,
I don't know, maybe And it's like they do the
cast performs their version of like a rolling stone on
(26:35):
like Ellen or something like that. It's like shout outs
catatonic youths. If you guys get.
Speaker 3 (26:42):
One of them.
Speaker 4 (26:44):
I'm certain that he has posted that.
Speaker 3 (26:47):
At something I have. That's why it sounds so familiar.
And I was like, where what have I seen it?
It is beyond.
Speaker 4 (26:53):
It's beyond. It's totally batshit and it's taking like whatever
was ever and Bob Dylan's a car you could pick
in any number of infinite directions, but whatever that was
is just like it's catastrophically besides the point. Yeah, and
and sort of a perversion of the point anyway. All
that is just to say this I fully accept and embrace,
(27:18):
like I could do a lyrical exitgesis we have you know,
we're coming to the close here of this. It's not
even the point. This is this kind of thing is masterly,
masterfully done, a cultural touchstone, and I fully and important
in its politics important in its existence, and I fully
(27:38):
accept the fact that I am weirdly immune to its
charms and seem to have been for length of life.
It is never going to be a thing, I don't think,
and I hope maybe more'll be revealed my tuning continues,
but I don't think this is ever going to be
the genre for me that I am. Like. I both
(28:01):
it's like marveling. It's something that is very beautifully constructed
that you have absolutely no attraction to whatsoever. That's true
of people, right, that's aesthetics as well. You could see
somebody that is like thought of as like universally beautiful
and just nothing in you moves at all, no heart race,
no blood pump. You're just kind of like that person's
(28:24):
it's like looking at a really pretty shard of glass
or something. I don't know, it doesn't really That's how
I feel. And Rent is probably like at the top
of the list of like it's really great, But I'm
also just like I hear it and I'm like, thank
god Lisa had this experience with it, and so many
other people did as well. I mean that, and there's
(28:45):
things I feel that way about that I'm sure those
people would be like, who gives a shit about that
at all?
Speaker 1 (28:50):
And there are songs in this show that like there's
that song like one song Glory, one song before the
virus takes hold, like.
Speaker 3 (28:59):
It's stripped down and it's exactly what we're talking about.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
Yeah, And so so this is to me the biggest,
biggest example of like it turned up all the way
and it's like a little too much for me, but
it has really cool stuff. And and also like if
you look at Rocky Horror, right, I think like they
do this.
Speaker 4 (29:16):
There's a little Rocky Horror in this for sure.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
I think led the way for something like this. But
they're also even tongue in cheek about it, right, like
they're they're they're having a little bit fun with it camp.
Speaker 4 (29:26):
It's fully camp. Yeah, this is this And because this
has a serious message, you kind of yeah, I think
that the best thing to be said about it is
to me, it's like that word dynamics and this is
like they broke the dynamics knob off and just were
like it's almost like a mad scientist was like, you know,
just like yeah, and there's there's something to it, but
(29:50):
it's not it's it's something that I just it's it's
the look, it's baked into what it's meant to be.
It's on purpose. The ARTI of this stuff has always
been an impediment. You can make the argument everything's got artifice.
A guy getting up on the stage and an acoustic instrument
and a T shirt and jeans, there's artifice in that too.
Speaker 3 (30:10):
Tchaikowsky to Chatilowski, hoop.
Speaker 4 (30:13):
Change, heat, deity and everything.
Speaker 3 (30:15):
I say ye back to Hamilton.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
Wells, dominate me instead of subscribe. You're like, dominate me
all right, thanks, guys, Dominate me alright.
Speaker 4 (30:31):
Three hundred and six
Speaker 1 (30:35):
Ret Okay Live Strong Bracelets Guys A piece Forever, Live
Strong Bracelets Up.
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