May 10, 2018 • 42 mins
Canadian singer/songwriter and Def Jam recording artist Alessia Cara emerged onto the music scene in 2015 with the release of "Here." Co-written by Sebastian Kole, "Here" garnered over 500,000 total streams in its first week and went on to crack the Top 5 on Billboard's Hot 100 list, and rose to No. 1 on the Hot R&B/Hip-Hop and Pop charts in early 2016. Fast-forward to the present. Cara’s success has continued with a string of Billboard chart-topping hits, a platinum certified debut album, and a GRAMMY Award for Best New Artist. In this 2016 interview, the “Scars to Your Beautiful” singer sat with host Scott Goldman to explore her creative process and reflect on her success.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to Required Listening. I'm your host, Scott Goldman, Executive
director of the Grammy Museum. Each week in the Clive
Davis Theater, I have the opportunity to speak to artists
from across the musical spectrum about their careers, their struggles,
their inspiration and their creative process. Now with Required Listening,
I'm thrilled to share these remarkable interviews with you on
(00:24):
today's episode, My conversation with Grammy winning Best New Artist
Alessia Cara, the Canadian singer and songwriter, began her journey
by putting up unique covers on YouTube in two thousand
and eleven. Those clips ultimately helped land a major label
recording contract. As a shy high school student, she started
putting up the YouTube videos as a means to avoid
(00:46):
having to actually perform in front of anyone. It's quite
an art going from performing covers in your bedroom by
yourself to performing on the stage at the Glastonbury Festival
in front of fifty people. She was wonderfully open and
aware of where she is as a young songwriter and
how much she has to learn as an artist. So
let's go to the Clive Davis Theater and listen to
(01:07):
my conversation with Alessia Cara. So our guest tonight began
uploading covers and you Know This to YouTube long before
she considered a career in music. She was spotted by
a music company executive and encouraged to write her own
material and her first original song here How Many People
(01:29):
Know That? Song? Songs on our EP four Pink Walls
displayed a rare talent for creating compelling songs of depth
and insight. She's here tonight following the release last year
of her debut LP entitled Know It All and an
opening slot on cold Plays two thousand sixteen world tour.
(01:51):
Give it up for Alessia carrad Hello, thanks for being here. Hi, Hi, Hello,
thank you for having us, Thank you for being here.
Cupcakes and all I know I just had when I
had to put it away because my hands are all
(02:13):
you know, Well, you're going to be experiencing a sugar
rush here, I know a lot of energy. Yeah, So
I talked to um. I mentioned in the open you
just spent some time opening for Coldplay. Yes, that's sort
of a different experience, given that these are big venues.
Those guys don't exactly play small clubs anymore. So talk
(02:34):
a little bit about the challenge of trying to fill
up a big room like that. Um well, I mean,
I'm a I'm a pretty small person, I would say.
I mean, I'm like only five too, So it is
kind of challenging to you know, Yeah, that's not funny,
you know, I'm kidding. Um yeah, So I think it
is kind of challenging to like, you know, grasp the
attention of thousands and thousands of people, especially because I
(02:55):
had never done that before. And when you're an opening slot,
that's even harder, or when you have an opening slot
to use me, that's a lot harder because you know,
oftentimes you just think, like everyone just like all right,
let's get to the real stuff, like who is this person?
But you know what, everyone was actually very receptive in
a great way, and their whole audience, Like every every
place we went to, like from Europe to the US,
it seemed like everyone was, you know, very fairly nice,
(03:18):
and you know, they really embraced us and in the music,
and it was really nice to see that there's a
mature audience. But yeah, I like the way you said
that mature yeah read old, not too h all right,
I'm wondering. I'm wondering if the you know, if the
boys in cold Play gave you any advice they give
(03:39):
they give you any tips about playing a you know,
a big venue. Um well, I mean the first day
I did tell them that I was nervous, and Chris
Martin basically said that the crowd always gives you what
you give them. So if you give them all your
energy and all your love, and you try to connect
with them as much as possible, then usually they'll give
that back to you. So it's like a conversation. Yeah,
you know, most most times when you play bigger rooms,
(04:01):
you know, artists or advised you know, sing to the
back of the hall, pick out somebody in the back
of the room and you know, kind of sing to them.
Is that something that you tried to do? Was did
you have a strategy? Um? I mean, honestly not, not really.
I try, even though it's really hard for me to
to not be conscious of things, because every time I perform,
always thinking and being conscious of everything around me. But
(04:23):
I think that the best way to do it is
to really just kind of get lost in what you're
singing and and just really like Chris said, just kind
of give everything you have to the audience and just
really try to, you know, put forth the message that
you're trying to put out. So whether it was I
was singing Scars or whatever song, it was just really
try to get that out there so they can leave
that room with something. You said, You're you're you're kind
(04:44):
of aware of everything as as you're performing. What are
you aware? What? What? What are you trying to focus on?
You're trying to focus on performance, pitch, song, emotion. Um,
I mean, it's a bit of everything. Honestly, I'm like
everywhere because of course, part of me wants to make
sure that I'm singing all the things right and all
the lyrics right and getting the pitch right. But then
(05:05):
another part of me wants to connect, and then another
part of me is like noticing the cool shirt that
the person is wearing on this side, and then it's
like I'm just constantly thinking so much. I'm constantly always thinking,
but I really try as much as possible to to
only think about what I'm putting out there and what
I'm saying. But of course it's hard sometimes because you
want to give a good performance. You played an iconic
(05:28):
festival in the UK, Glastonbury, Yes, yeah, which is maybe
the mac Daddy of all festivals. Tell us, tell us
about that experience. That was awesome. I mean, of course,
that's like, you know, I'm sure many artists can say
the same thing that that's one of the goals for sure.
In the UK is such a prestigious place, especially for
for music and stuff like that. So it was it
(05:50):
was really awesome, and there were so many other great
acts there and it just felt really cool to be
a part of that. And I was really shocked at
the amount of people that actually came out and we're
singing along and it was really it was crazy. I
had the Wellington boots on apparently supposed to because yeah, exactly,
it was so muddy and rainy, but it was awesome. Yeah.
I couldn't have. I couldn't have warned those that would
(06:11):
have been I would have messed him up. I mean
I did, definitely did. And they were taller than me too.
They were like up to hear it looked like either
like thy high boots. So I've done a little you know,
kind of reading a little bit about your backstory and
and it comes out kind of repeatedly that that early on,
certainly as you were, you know, perhaps learning how to
(06:31):
play guitar and covering some songs maybe in your bedroom,
that you're kind of shy. Yeah, I mean I definitely
was a lot more than I am now. I'm still
sometimes and but I mean definitely, growing up, it was
a lot harder for me to you know, share my
ideas and be creative and even just sing in front
of my own parents. Like I was. I was very
(06:52):
very shy, and I protected that side of me a lot.
And I'm not really sure why. I think maybe it
was just it was just the fear of not being
good enough, failing, or just you know, when something that
presses to you, it's always really scary to give it
away and to just lay it out out there. Um.
But I think I'm hopefully a lot better than I was,
And I mean I performed many places now and I
think it's a lot easier to do that because I've
(07:14):
seen the thankfully that the positive reaction I've received, and
so now I know that it's not that scary anymore.
It's it's in fact, a really great, powerful thing to
be able to do that. So I'm lucky and I'm wondering, though,
what what was it that possessed you to start putting
covers up on YouTube? You know, especially given that you were,
you know, kind of shy. Yeah, well, you know, I
(07:35):
think that's that's actually the reason why I did it,
because I could not sing in front of a group
of people in real life. And so I thought, you know,
if I if this is a dream of mine, how
am I going to overcome this fear of singing for
an audience? So I thought the closest thing to singing
for an audience was doing it in a way that
I didn't have to actually be in front of them.
And so I thought YouTube, you know, use my resources.
As a millennial, I have this great thing called the internet.
(07:58):
Um that I could use this. I don't know what
that is, but yeah, but you know, I think just
at this day and age, we we have all this
this great stuff and we don't always have to be
in front of an audience to get our voices out there.
So I thought, this is a cool way to cheat
my way into it. I don't have to sing in
front of you, but you can still hear my voice,
and I can be in the comfort of my own closet,
(08:19):
because that's where I would record all my covers in
my closet. Yeah, so so you did get, um, you know,
kind of discovered from a YouTube video. What was the
song that seemed to have attracted the interest of this
production company that ultimately contacted you. Um. It was actually
this cover that I did of a song called Sweater
Weather by the Neighborhood, this band called the Neighborhood. Um.
(08:41):
And I don't even remember how I heard it. I
just really loved the song and I didn't really think
anything would become of it, honestly, of my cover, I mean,
not of the song, of course, um, but I just
I just decided to cover it one day. I loved
it and I learned how to play it on guitar.
And at this point I wasn't really getting many views
on my videos, so I definitely didn't expect, you know,
to make it out of the pool of millions of
(09:01):
kids that are posting covers online every day. But yeah,
this production company label EP Entertainment too. Well, Rob, who's
here today? Um? He? Well, this girl, actually this and
R from this production company was you know, serving the
web finding talent, I guess, and she came across my video,
and they took me in, took me under their wing,
and they decided to just help me out. And here
(09:22):
we are. Yeah. Well, I'll get to that. I want
to get to that in a minute. But I'm wondering.
You know, you're talking about sweader Weather and for some
reason you like that song. What is it about a
song that attracts you. I don't know. I mean, I
guess it's always always different. Um, I think I love.
I'm a lyric person, so I love listening to lyrics first,
and if if the lyrics are whether they're ambiguous to
(09:45):
the point where you can kind of create your own meaning,
or if they're really visual or just really great clever lyrics,
I'm a big lyric person. But then, of course, you know,
you can't ever run away from a good ear room melody. Um. Yeah,
So these guys get a hold of you, um or
girls is the case? Maybe girls and girls? And when
they did, did you think it was legit? Um? Not really?
(10:08):
I mean at this point I was only sixteen. Yeah yeah,
And of course when you're when you're that, you know
you're I'm from Brampton, Ontario, Canada. No one even knows
where that is, and like if you're not from there obviously,
and you know when you get a tweet from a
person you've never met before that just says, hey, like
I would like to get in contact with you to
discuss like music. I forget what the exact thing was,
(10:30):
but like to discuss like music or something like that.
And I was like, Okay, this could be spam, this
could be someone that's trying to kidnap me. I don't
know what's going on. So of course I did you
know the safe thing to do kids? And I told
my dad and I said, Dad, can you please just
talk to yeah, check this out, talk to these people.
So I told them. I was like, Okay, I'm gonna
have my dad talked to you, but can you give
(10:51):
us a number to contact because I don't want to
give away personal information. Again, smart thing to do, kids,
don't give away personal information. Um, long story short, my
dad just agreed to it for some reason. I don't know,
because I never thought he would do that, but he did,
and he got on the phone. So why why did
you think he would not do that? Well, because I
come from a traditional Italian family and so doing music
(11:15):
and doing that kind of thing and in my family,
straying away from the typical construction worker hairdresser thing is
not really my family. Literally, of my family's hairdressers and
like the other ten percent is construction. I'm not kidding.
This is not like a stereotypical thing genuinely from my
family is like this. So you know, when I said, hey,
(11:35):
I want to you know, not go to school and
do music, that's not you know, the thing that that
a typical Italian dad wants to hear. So I just
didn't think that, you know, they'd be up for it.
And um, he he was. He was down to at
least take the call. And so we went to New York.
We just picked picked up like a week later, went
to New York saying for these people that we had
never met, and my dad gave them the lecture like,
(11:58):
don't waste our time. We're hard working both if you're serious,
you're serious. But yeah, he gave them the lecture. But
they they were like, no, we're serious, we believe and
how we want you to you know, you want to
work with you And they didn't tie us down to anything.
They just kind of so, so, what I'm interested in
this audition? What did you sing for them? Um, what
did I sing? I think I sang Mirrors by justin Timberlake.
(12:23):
I think I'm pretty sure, like in a conference room somewhere. Yeah,
they took us to like this office. It was like
an office in the Universal Building in New York, and
I was like, okay, I've never been to anything like that.
And they just said, well, all right, you want to
sing this. This is the thing I love about the
music business. And you hear this, you know, repeated often,
and it's a classic story about young artists and producers
(12:45):
or record labels bring them in and they put them
in the worst possible like setting. It's like, okay, now,
now impress us here. You are sitting in some conference
room with fluorescent lights and no sound, and it's like,
you know, blow us away. But you know what, I
think the thing about that is if you can blow
people away with just your voice, I think that's what
makes you. Um, I guess in their eyes good enough
(13:06):
or not good. And I don't want to say good enough,
but that's what makes you special. And you know, I
think that's when people see when you really have something
is when you're able to you know, whether it's move
people or just impress people, or just show people your
talent without all the lights and the fancy mikes and sounds,
and um, yeah, well I think I also think about
and I'm sure you saw this film because I know
(13:27):
this person is a hero to you, the film about
Amy Winehouse. Yes, and there there's a part there I
recall where she's literally in an office or somewhere and
she's just playing guitar and it's not the best setting
in the world, and you're just blown away by what
this person is doing. Yeah, it was amazing. And I've
(13:47):
seen that movie so many times. It's true, like when
you're able to do that, Um, I think that's why
one of the reasons why I look up to her
so much, and why I look up to the people
I look up to in the music world, because they're
able to do that without anything else. They could just
sit there and just sing for you and still move
you with no music, no anything, And that's that's something
really special to be able to do that, And so
(14:09):
that's what I've always strived for. And um, I think
that just comes from honest passion and loving what you
do and just and just really giving everything. And you
could tell with her in particular. She always did that
with every song she ever saying. It was always she
was really singing it, you know, she was never just
like doing it. So it comes to past you sign
(14:32):
up with these guys and girls, um, and they ultimately
set you up with Sebastian Cole. Yes. Did you have
any sense of who that was when you like walked
into the room with him? No? No, I didn't. Um.
I actually I went to one of his shows. He
was playing this I think it was, I don't know
if it was like a little club or a little bar, um,
just to get a sense of what his music style
(14:53):
was and who he was. And I was actually blown
away by his performance. He was amazing. He played these
amazing songs on piano. It was just an all acoustic
piano performance. And so I already became like a fan.
I was like, this is cool. I gets to he
has to teach me how to make songs and I
get to work with him. So we met right after
his performance and I was like, hey, sang for him,
and I just said, um, I think you know they're
(15:13):
setting us up on a blind writing date. So and
he was like, yeah, let's do it. So tell me
about the blind writing date. How did that work? What
did you say when you walked in? Um? Well, the
first thing he said to me was he he took
me outside of the studio and he's like, what's your story?
And again, me being at this point seventeen, I was like,
what is my story? I don't know? So I told
(15:34):
him like, I don't know. I think I'm in the
process of of of making that story. And he's like cool.
So then we came up and the first Yeah, that
was literally it. And then so we went into the room,
he sat at a piano and we started. I just
started talking to him about that concept about not really sure,
not being sure who you are yet and kind of
creating your own story, and we came up with a song.
It was called Only Human. That was the first song
(15:55):
we've ever made. Um And that's from that point on.
That's how we started writing. Every single song. It was
just me telling him something and we would just keep
talking until the song was made, you know. And he's
been quoted as saying that at first, and maybe as
time went on this changed, but at first he had
to get the songs out of you. Yeah, what did
(16:15):
he mean by that? Um? Well, I guess, you know,
touching back with how I was really shy. Um. You know,
you could imagine a young girl just kind of meeting
a person for the first time and having to just
share all of her thoughts and feelings and song ideas
and creative ideas with this person I've never I've never met,
and so I mean I wish I had talked a
bit more now looking back, I just wish I opened
(16:36):
up a bit more. Um. But yeah, in the process, yeah,
looking back now, but I mean he definitely did have
to like literally pull things out of me. Sometimes not literally,
Why am I saying literally pull things? Nothing like that,
but he had to, like he had to pull things
out of me to like, you know, really another caution
to young artists. Don't let producers. Don't let anyone pull anything. Yeah,
(16:57):
nothing out of it. That's yeah. Don't you get any
good songs out of that? Maybe a lawsuit, but no
good songs. Um. So um. Yeah, he had to, you know,
like just get these songs out of me because I
was so shy, and and you know, he would just
be like would you do today, like nothing, and I
just wouldn't say anything because I was so shy, So
he would have to ask me questions, kind of like
therapy for me to open up. But then by the
(17:19):
end that I was good. And I mean now it's
like every time we talk it's always like free. But
now I talked too much. You can tell by now. See.
I just you're pretty good at it, thank you. I'm
good at talking a lot. Yeah, good talker. So I
also read that as you're making this record, you were
like sneaking off from school to go to these recording sessions,
(17:41):
not telling anybody. If it were me and I was
your age, I would have been blabbing to everybody in
in in creation then yeah, I'm going off to make
a record. And you didn't do that. Why I didn't.
I didn't do that for a couple of reasons. I
think you know me. I think I was the type
of student in high school. I just wanted to remain anonymous.
I just wanted to get it over with, to be honest.
(18:03):
And I knew, especially in my school, it was kind
of a small school and the word would get around,
and I just didn't want to be known as that
girl who was like the music freak who would go,
you know, and record songs after school, like I just
didn't want people to know that side. And also, I think,
you know, again, I didn't know what was going to
become of it, and I didn't want to just start
saying like, hey, I'm gonna make an album and get
signed and then nothing happened. So just a couple of
(18:24):
different reasons, I just wanted to keep that side to private.
So I know you said only Human was was the
first song you guys wrote, but here was pretty early
on in my Yeah, it was like the fourth fourth yeah,
if I'm not speaking, so tell me a little bit
about that. What was What was Sebastian's reaction to that song?
So after we were finished, Yeah, we were all just
(18:47):
kind of like this is pretty cool. And I think
all of us were kind of feeling the same thing.
But none of us wanted to be the one to
say like we have the the the song, so we're
all just like this is good. Yeah, we didn't want
to say that. So I think we're all just like
this is this is good, And I was like, hey,
this is cool, but I think all of us are
just kind of like, you know. And then every once
in a while we would as we were making the album,
(19:07):
he would kind of say to me like, I don't
think you know what's happening here, and I'm like, I
think I know, but I don't know. But so it
was always like an unspoken thing. But we all, I think,
had that mutual feeling of like we have we have
something here, this is this is the one. At least
I felt that way listening to your songs, particularly here,
but but others there's this sense of um alienation is
(19:32):
a way that's it's been described. Is that something that
you've experienced. Yeah, actually, definitely UM. And I think a
lot of it, weirdly enough, has it kind of came
from me? And I think I would do it to
myself whole lot of the time. I would separate myself
from everyone in certain situations and I would just often
find myself alienated because of just me, I guess, removing
(19:54):
myself from the world that was high school or the
world that was school, or with other people. And I
don't know, I mean, of course it was inflicted by
other people, but I definitely did a lot of that
alienation to myself. I mean, the song here, you know,
has been called and this is not my words, a
loner anthem. Yeah, you know, which I mean that sounds
(20:17):
kind of catchy to a certain degree. But I'm wonder,
what do you think about that when you hear you know,
someone you know, a critic or otherwise who sort of
boiled down your hard work into this two word catchphrase,
a loner anthem. I think I think that just comes
from them having to put artists in a box. I
think that's just what you do, you know, especially when
(20:38):
you have a new artist, You're like, Okay, where can
we put her? We can't put her with the diva's
Let's put her with the weird awkward kids, because it's
so weird. Because I feel like a lot of people
in the industry, whether it's in the media, are just
in the industry itself. They have a hard time just
saying that Alessia is just Alesia and she doesn't have
to be in a box. She can be in the
category of Alessia and this person can be in that
clategory like people don't. They have a very hard time
(21:00):
processing what that means. And so because of this, they
just have like three or four boxes and they just
put everyone in this space, and that's what it is.
But I mean, I guess if you look at it,
in a positive way. I guess, you know, if it
is helping all the people who feel like loners, then
I'm a loner. I wrote a loaner anthem. I'm good
moving on where we're all loners. Yeah, you know what
I mean. You gotta look at it in a positive way.
(21:21):
But I think that just comes from them not knowing
where to put me, which is weird. But I mean,
you would all concerned that that it kind of paints
a one sided picture of you that that I mean,
you are, you know, as an artist much more than
a loaner anthem. Yeah, sometimes you just wish, you know,
maybe they would have used a different word, or maybe
you just wish they didn't have to describe it at all,
Like here's a song interpreted how you will. But again,
(21:45):
people have a very hard time just processing that. They
need to see something quick so they know where to
put it in their brains. And I'm cool with that.
I was a bit of a loner anyway, so it's fine.
So in the song you describe yourself as an anti
social pessimist. Yes, but now, I mean if you kind
of consider what's you know, what's been going on with
(22:06):
your career, things are moving along, i'd say fairly nicely.
I'm wondering if you've become a little more optimistic. Definitely, Yeah,
I think you know, you realize that many things are
possible through doing this and having the blessings that I've had.
But I think that phrase in the context of the song,
I'm kind of just basically saying like, I'm sorry if
(22:26):
I seem like one right now, but I'm not. I'm
just really uncomfortable, is basically what I'm saying. So I
don't really think I was ever an antisocial pessimist. Uh,
I just think I'm saying that in the song, like
I I just I'm sorry if I seem like one
right now. Yeah. Yeah, I mean the the song does
set up a you know, a very real life situation
that many people I'm sure have experienced talk about. Is
(22:49):
that important to you in terms of writing songs that
that are relatable, relatable to your audience? Um, I mean yeah.
When we're making the album, because I had ever really
released any music at this point, I didn't really know
how quick people relate to things, and so I wasn't
really conscious of it. I just knew that I wanted
to make music that was honest to me. But then
(23:10):
I realized pretty quickly after releasing even Just Here. How
you know, if you make something that's honest to you,
it's bound to relate to somebody because we all, um,
whether we realize it or not, we all really like
live very similar stories, and we all have similar struggles,
are similar things we deal with. So feelings and honest
feelings are very much universal ones. And so as much
(23:31):
as I'm conscious of making things relatable now, I know
that they're bound to be relatable when they're honest and
when they're real, um, you know there they become non
relatable when you're unrelatable, when you're making stuff up and
you know, trying to seem a lot cooler than you actually. Yeah,
and and and so you know, here was was about
maybe not necessarily belonging, and then there's a track Wild
(23:53):
Things that seems to almost be the opposite. Yeah, like
the continuation. Yeah yeah, the intention know part you know,
part B or you know whatever. So that was intentional
on your part to kind of paint the other side
of the coin. Yeah, yeah, you know, because I think
here is basically saying, like, you know, I don't really
belong here. And then while things were saying, but I
don't have to belong anywhere, and this is where I belong.
(24:15):
It's it's in a place in the back of my
mind that I created and it's cool and I love
it here, and I just you know, the title is
where the Wild Things Are. That's just the place that
you know, that non existent place and are subconscious that
I just thought should have a name. But that's where
I think we we all kind of go to when
we feel like we're uncomfortable in certain places, or when
we feel like we don't belong. We should just know
(24:35):
that we can all create this special safe place within
ourselves that we can feel comfortable in and that doesn't
necessarily have to be with other people, doesn't have to
be a real place that actually exists, because it exists
as long as we believe it does. There's another track
on the record, and and this I was very interested in.
Scars to Your Body, Beautiful to your Beautiful, Sorry, Scars
(24:59):
to Your Beautiful. I haven't written down here and I've
heard so many titles, but very much about you know,
body image, um and perception of women and why why
was it important for you to write about that? I
think you know, especially nowadays, I think what girls have
(25:19):
been dealing with this all the time, but since forever.
But I think nowadays, especially with the media and with
all these new standards that have been placed on us,
girls are coming to the point where a lot of
us can't even look in the mirror some days or
any day without feeling like we need to look like
someone else or look like something else, and we just
you know, I know personally for me, and I know
(25:41):
a lot of us, no matter how confident we all are,
we can't even like look at pictures of ourselves or
you know, go outside without just being so conscious of
how we look all the time and just saying I
wish I looked like this person, or I hate this
about myself. I hate that, and it's so it's so bad,
and I think it just comes from us being brainwashed
and being just told this on a daily bay basis
that we have to squeeze ourselves into this unrealistic mold
(26:04):
and if we don't, then we're just not beautiful and
we're just categorized as you know, average or not good
enough or whatever it is. And I think that's really sad,
and I think we should all have the right to
feel a beautiful and confident um without pleasing anybody, because
we're not here for anybody else. Um, We're here for ourselves.
And I think so many women are All women are
(26:24):
way greater than how we look, and we're capable of
so much more than that. And that's what this song
is about. And of course men, I'm sure it can
relate to it as well, but it's just for anybody
who doesn't feel I know. I'm sure some of you
guys want to be buff and cool and some of
you think you're not, but you don't have to be.
It's cool. Um. Yeah, so I just want to thank you.
(26:46):
But yeah, I'm feeling better about myself now. I said,
you don't have there's this whole um kind of thematic
idea that of conscious pop music. Yeah, you know, making
making pop music, you know, legit pop music, but with
you know, some gravitas to it that important to you.
(27:07):
Can't make songs that have some weight, that have a message. Yeah.
You know, if I'm giving a platform to say something,
I might as well say something that is important and
that's worth saying. I would never want to waste the
blessing that I've been given to just like say something
that doesn't make any sense or that's not true to me.
And I'm not saying that I'm going to be making
(27:28):
preach the songs for the rest of my life, and
I'm not always going to make a statement. Um. Sometimes
I'll just make songs about what I'm feeling. But as
long as they're honest to me, and as long as
I'm i feel like I'm putting out a good message
and making people feel like they're not alone, then I'm
doing my job properly. Um. And I guess there is
no proper way to do it. But the way that
I would feel most fulfilled is if I'm speaking for
people who don't always have a voice, because a lot
(27:49):
of us don't. And so if I have a voice,
and if someone up there, whoever, decided to give me
a voice, I might as well use it um for
other people as well. So we were talking upstairs briefly,
I asked you if you had started thinking about record
number two, and don't take this the wrong way. So
(28:10):
you wrote record number one, you know, basically it was
written by someone who had not at that point been
touched by celebrity. Yeah, now you know, here you are
X number of months or a year later, and you're
thinking about writing record number two, and a lot of
things have changed in your life, and I'm wondering, is
(28:33):
it going to be different for you to sit down
and try and make a record now that you've had
this experience. I think, yeah, it's going to be. I
think it will be pretty different, you know, because in
this space of a year and a half, I've sort
of been feeling things that I've never felt before and
I don't even know in like again, I think I
(28:53):
find myself doing the thing that the people do is
like what box do I put this in? What feeling
do I put this in? And I'm having kind of
an interest time putting those feelings into words and figuring
out what it is that I'm feeling and how I
can describe it. UM. This industry kind of forces you
to grow up very quickly, and I've had to become
very responsible and it's challenging. I think, you know, I'm
(29:14):
the same person that was from album one, that's put
in a completely different situation, so tons of new feelings
are gonna rise from that. UM. So it's kind of
an interesting sort of thing creatively to to figure out
how to not only keep it relatable, because you know,
not everyone gets to experience this, So how can I
just make an album talking about, you know, doing this
for a living Like it's not so, I think again,
(29:36):
because I still feel like I'm very much the same
person that was just placed in a different situation. People
are bound to relate to it because we all sometimes
feel isolated, we all sometimes feel scared or excited. Of course,
happy and very normal feelings are coming out of my
abnormal situation. I'm just figuring out how to say them
and how to turn them into music. You've had the chance,
(29:59):
obviously to work, you know, with people like Sebastian Cole.
You've had the chance to watch people like Chris Martin
kind of do what they do, and I'm wondering what
you've learned in the process. I've learned so many things, honestly,
whether it was just you know, how to make a song,
and you know, just as early as Sebastian, like just
watching him not only of course work on my stuff
(30:21):
with me, but work on his own stuff, and he's
just he's just so talented and so that side of
things he just helped me figure out just through watching him.
I just absorbed so much, and he taught me how
to make songs, and then of course watching people like
Chris Martin, just seeing how to take those songs and
throw them at the audience and connect with them and
and make, you know, every single person in that giant
(30:43):
stadium feel like they're the only one there. Just I
think through observing, I've learned so much about what it
means to be a creator and what it means to
take those creations and put them out into the world
and doing it in the right way so that people
can really just feel like like you're with them, that
they're with you, you know. So I'm just I'm just
really lucky that I get to sit back and watch
all these people and like absorb. And I'm so young,
(31:05):
so I have I have a lot of room to
of course make mistakes, but I also have a lot
of room to learn. So very lucky. So fair warning,
were gonna ask for a couple of questions from the
house here in just a minute. But we talked earlier
about Amy Winehouse and and her kind of influence on you.
What was it about her that moved you so many
(31:28):
different things? Honestly, again, going back to what I said
about her just being able to sit there and and
move people with just her voice or with her guitar um.
And I think another thing I loved about her her
still love about her, excuse me, is that she was
just so unapologetically herself and real and no matter what
she said. And if you listen to her songs, a
lot of them are all of them are like very unfiltered,
(31:50):
very real, and and a lot of them she talks about,
you know, doing things like cheating and and her being
at fault, but she wasn't afraid to fail and she
wasn't afraid to admit when she was being human. And
I think that's that's something that is not always around
and not always present, especially in the music industry or
in the media entertainment side of things. And so it's
just really refreshing to have artists like her who just
(32:13):
really said it how it was and was unafraid and
unapologetically herself. What what are? What are? The artists have
moved you? I was really big on still I'm really
big on like Lauren Hill, the Fugies, Black Eyed peas Um,
who else, pink Um. I really love Rihanna because if
(32:33):
you look at Rihanna. Yeah, she's amazing. She's just like again,
so unapologetically herself. She doesn't care, she is who she
is and she kills it and it's awesome. So it's
really nice to see competent women just doing what they do.
And and you say that, um um. And we talked
a little bit about, you know, putting out positive messages,
and I'm wondering, even at a young age, do you
(32:54):
see yourself as a role model. I mean, I don't
necessarily see myself as one, because I'm you know, probably
a lot younger than a lot of the people who
listen to my music anyway, so if anything, they could
probably teach me about life. But you know, at the
same time, if people see me as a role model,
and if people see me as someone that they connect
to and that someone who can help give them advice
(33:16):
through my music, then I mean it's it's on you
if you want to take it or not. I'm not
saying I'm right. I'm just saying this is what I
think I've learned in these twenty years of living. And
if you think that that it's right, and if you
think it's helped you, then I'm happy to to be
a role model. I guess you got to perform, uh,
spend a little time perhaps with Taylor Swift, and you know,
she has a remarkable relationship with her fans and and
(33:40):
her audience built up over over years. But but she
really does have this kind of unique relationship with a
you know, very large kind of worldwide audience. Is that
something you aspire to is kind of building that ongoing
relationship with fans? Yeah? Absolutely. And I think the reason
I heard fans have stayed with her all this time
(34:01):
again is because she's one of those people who just
put out honest music and people don't ever forget that,
and people don't ever lose that connection onen do you
make it with them? And she's always been so so
great at just being honest and real with with her
fans and with her music. And if that's something I
can do, that be that would be awesome because I'd
rather have fans for that reason and for the right reasons,
just because I have a catchy song, I wear cool
(34:23):
clothes or whatever, because I definitely don't these are like
really old. Um, you made a very difficult decision, you
know too, you were at a fork in the road.
It's like music college and you decided to go with
music scary road yeah yeah, um, which you actually said
was was kind of You went with your gut. Yeah.
(34:45):
For me it wasn't scary and what not. That wasn't scary.
It was easy for me to say, this is what
I want to do. Yeah. I'm wondering if you what
other have you made other gut level decisions you know
since then, where you know, maybe it isn't necessarily the
UH would have been considered the right way to go,
but you went with your gut yeah all the time
(35:06):
pretty much. I mean because if you think, if you
make decisions with your brain, it might fail you. If
you make decisions with your heart, it might fail you.
But if you make decisions with your gut, it, like
I would say, I don't think it ever fails you
if you really know deep down what the right thing is.
And I mean sometimes it's not about like predicting the future.
It's just about what feels right for you and what
you know is going to make you the most comfortable.
(35:26):
So every decision I make, even if it's a small
one or something as big as like what singles should
I put out or what should go on the album
or what album should I put out? Or you know,
I think it's always important to go with your guts.
So honestly, every decision I made, from all the singles
I put out, everything I put on the album, everything
is just always been just what feels right in my gut.
So um, we'd like to take a question or two
(35:48):
from from the assembled thronging here yes, right here, Yes, yeah,
jingle Ball. Yes. The question was are you excited to
see any other artists? Absolutely? Yeah. I got to do
jingle Ball last year, and I got to see all
(36:09):
these other artists play like almost every day, so I
would go out and just watch them and it was cool.
It's like you're touring. You literally are touring with a
bunch of other people, and a lot of the artists
this year are some of my favorites, so I'm excited
to name one. There are a bunch like, Okay, who
I'm into. I'm into Toblo, I'm into Ariana Grande, I'm
into Justin Bieber. Every honestly, everyone that's I think Bruno
(36:30):
Mars is also playing a couple and he's like incredible.
Me into Bruno Mars. Everyone that's honestly playing is really
great right now? So yes, right here? Um, going back
to like how do you see yourself as a whole
model like with Scarpinger you single and stuff like that,
like obviously a lot more like women and grown looked
up to you, but like how do you manage to
(36:50):
like stay so humble like and how do you like
kind of straight away from not getting that mentality? Abo?
Oh thank you? So the question for those who didn't hear,
can you guys all here, how do you how do
you maintain kind of your your even keel um? I
think for me, I mean, of course the one thing
I know, as cliche as it sounds, keep the right
people around you, because it's just it's so important in
(37:13):
this in this world of music. But also for me,
I honestly have have never been interested in fame or
that side of things. I actually get scared of it.
I don't enjoy the attention when it's not on the music,
and so I try to just straight away from it
as much as possible. And it's just easy for me
to not get a big head about it because it's
not something that I want. So I'm just like, no,
(37:35):
just only on the music, please, Like the thing about
you know what I mean. So I'm always like staying
away from that stuff in the back working with Troy Savon, who,
by the way, we've had here he's I know I
heard he's so he's so awesome. I love him. He Um,
it was amazing. He is one of my favorite artists.
And the song wild to the one that I fortunately
(37:55):
got to be on, which was amazing. Um, that's one
of my favorite songs off his album. And I made
that very clear to him a million times, and so
he just texted me one day and he's like, if
I send you the instrumental, do you want to like
write a verse for it and be on it. I
was like, uh yeah, So I did it. It was
the easiest decision I ever made. We got we got
time for one more, yes or right there? So I
(38:16):
just wanted to ask, um, what's the jewel on your record? Like,
what's the one song that you're really trout of writing
me really kind of just ques you, but also really
thought of to kind of put you know, no one
hearing that people like the one that stands out, the
one that stands out very good shortening, good question I
(38:40):
think for me. I mean, I'm proud of all the songs,
but I think for me, the one that's always kind
of close to my heart for a couple of reasons
is four Pink Walls. First of all, because it was
the first song that I ever really wrote by myself,
completely without anyone, and that was really important for me
to do because, again, just coming from someone who's never
made music to you know, learning from Sebastian and just
seeing him work and stuff, I just really wanted to
(39:00):
be like, Okay, I'm gonna try this on my own,
and I did, and it was it was on the album,
and I was really proud of it. And I think
also what I'm talking about, I'm basically talking about, you know,
starting off life in my four pink bedroom walls, staring
at those same walls and aspiring, you know, to do
all these things, and aspiring to be all these different things,
and just having that doubt in the back of my
mind that I wasn't going to be able to do it,
(39:21):
and so now the fact that I am doing it,
there's such a big contrast between my life then and now,
and that's what the song is about. It's about that
feeling of wanting to know outside of or explore outside
of what you're used to. So I'm just proud of
being able to make that song because it shows that
I've come a long way, and again because I wrote
it all about myself. So last question, speaking of four
(39:43):
Pink Walls, there's there's there's a song on there and
there's a line that says, I thought the only place
for my dreams was in my dreams. Yeah, and now
as you look at what's happened to you, when you
think about that line, how do you how do you
feel it's crazy? I do. I mean, I think I'm
taking a line. I'm stealing a line from my dad
(40:03):
because he always says that he has this famous line
where it's like it feels like a dream still waiting
to wake up. So that's why it really just still
feels like I'm in that dream. It's very you know.
And I guess it's weird to imagine or to think
about the fact that I'm really living this stuff because
I've lived all of this stuff in my head so
many times growing up, Like I've been here before. I
(40:26):
know how this works in my brain because I've imagined
it so many times, so it's crazy to think that
this time it's actually really happening to me. It's hard
to differentiate. I can't say that word differentiate, differentiate, sorry,
between the reality and what was just in my head.
So it's crazy that I'm actually living it. It's very surreal. Well,
(40:46):
it isn't surreal for us that you actually came and
and and hung out for a while. We're so pleased
that you took the time. Um, ladies and gentlemen, Lessia
car thank you, thank you so much. Following our talk,
Alessia one Best New Artist at the sixtieth Annual Grammy Awards.
(41:07):
In her acceptance speech, she talked about the need to
provide greater opportunities for aspiring musicians to be heard and supported.
I don't think it's often that you hear a young
artist discussing a desire to write conscious pop music and
not waste anyone's time. And that's your required listening for today.
(41:28):
We're coming to you with fresh episodes every Thursday. Keep
the conversation going. We're on all the socials at Grammy Museum.
If you're coming to Los Angeles, I hope you'll visit us.
All the info is at our website Grammy Museum dot org. Finally,
thanks to the team that brings you required listening Jason James,
Justin Joseph, Jim Cannella, Lynn Sheridan, Miranda Moore, Callie Weissman,
(41:49):
Lynn Brown, Michael Rohorbacker, Jason Hoap, Chandler May's Nick Stump,
and everyone at How Stuff Works. Until next time, I'm
Scott Goldman s
Welcome to Required Listening. I'm your host, Scott Goldman, Executive
director of the Grammy Museum. Each week in the Clive
Davis Theater, I have the opportunity to speak to artists
from across the musical spectrum about their careers, their struggles,
their inspiration and their creative process. Now with Required Listening,
I'm thrilled to share these remarkable interviews with you on
(00:24):
today's episode, My conversation with Grammy winning Best New Artist
Alessia Cara, the Canadian singer and songwriter, began her journey
by putting up unique covers on YouTube in two thousand
and eleven. Those clips ultimately helped land a major label
recording contract. As a shy high school student, she started
putting up the YouTube videos as a means to avoid
(00:46):
having to actually perform in front of anyone. It's quite
an art going from performing covers in your bedroom by
yourself to performing on the stage at the Glastonbury Festival
in front of fifty people. She was wonderfully open and
aware of where she is as a young songwriter and
how much she has to learn as an artist. So
let's go to the Clive Davis Theater and listen to
(01:07):
my conversation with Alessia Cara. So our guest tonight began
uploading covers and you Know This to YouTube long before
she considered a career in music. She was spotted by
a music company executive and encouraged to write her own
material and her first original song here How Many People
(01:29):
Know That? Song? Songs on our EP four Pink Walls
displayed a rare talent for creating compelling songs of depth
and insight. She's here tonight following the release last year
of her debut LP entitled Know It All and an
opening slot on cold Plays two thousand sixteen world tour.
(01:51):
Give it up for Alessia carrad Hello, thanks for being here. Hi, Hi, Hello,
thank you for having us, Thank you for being here.
Cupcakes and all I know I just had when I
had to put it away because my hands are all
(02:13):
you know, Well, you're going to be experiencing a sugar
rush here, I know a lot of energy. Yeah, So
I talked to um. I mentioned in the open you
just spent some time opening for Coldplay. Yes, that's sort
of a different experience, given that these are big venues.
Those guys don't exactly play small clubs anymore. So talk
(02:34):
a little bit about the challenge of trying to fill
up a big room like that. Um well, I mean,
I'm a I'm a pretty small person, I would say.
I mean, I'm like only five too, So it is
kind of challenging to you know, Yeah, that's not funny,
you know, I'm kidding. Um yeah, So I think it
is kind of challenging to like, you know, grasp the
attention of thousands and thousands of people, especially because I
(02:55):
had never done that before. And when you're an opening slot,
that's even harder, or when you have an opening slot
to use me, that's a lot harder because you know,
oftentimes you just think, like everyone just like all right,
let's get to the real stuff, like who is this person?
But you know what, everyone was actually very receptive in
a great way, and their whole audience, Like every every
place we went to, like from Europe to the US,
it seemed like everyone was, you know, very fairly nice,
(03:18):
and you know, they really embraced us and in the music,
and it was really nice to see that there's a
mature audience. But yeah, I like the way you said
that mature yeah read old, not too h all right,
I'm wondering. I'm wondering if the you know, if the
boys in cold Play gave you any advice they give
(03:39):
they give you any tips about playing a you know,
a big venue. Um well, I mean the first day
I did tell them that I was nervous, and Chris
Martin basically said that the crowd always gives you what
you give them. So if you give them all your
energy and all your love, and you try to connect
with them as much as possible, then usually they'll give
that back to you. So it's like a conversation. Yeah,
you know, most most times when you play bigger rooms,
(04:01):
you know, artists or advised you know, sing to the
back of the hall, pick out somebody in the back
of the room and you know, kind of sing to them.
Is that something that you tried to do? Was did
you have a strategy? Um? I mean, honestly not, not really.
I try, even though it's really hard for me to
to not be conscious of things, because every time I perform,
always thinking and being conscious of everything around me. But
(04:23):
I think that the best way to do it is
to really just kind of get lost in what you're
singing and and just really like Chris said, just kind
of give everything you have to the audience and just
really try to, you know, put forth the message that
you're trying to put out. So whether it was I
was singing Scars or whatever song, it was just really
try to get that out there so they can leave
that room with something. You said, You're you're you're kind
(04:44):
of aware of everything as as you're performing. What are
you aware? What? What? What are you trying to focus on?
You're trying to focus on performance, pitch, song, emotion. Um,
I mean, it's a bit of everything. Honestly, I'm like
everywhere because of course, part of me wants to make
sure that I'm singing all the things right and all
the lyrics right and getting the pitch right. But then
(05:05):
another part of me wants to connect, and then another
part of me is like noticing the cool shirt that
the person is wearing on this side, and then it's
like I'm just constantly thinking so much. I'm constantly always thinking,
but I really try as much as possible to to
only think about what I'm putting out there and what
I'm saying. But of course it's hard sometimes because you
want to give a good performance. You played an iconic
(05:28):
festival in the UK, Glastonbury, Yes, yeah, which is maybe
the mac Daddy of all festivals. Tell us, tell us
about that experience. That was awesome. I mean, of course,
that's like, you know, I'm sure many artists can say
the same thing that that's one of the goals for sure.
In the UK is such a prestigious place, especially for
for music and stuff like that. So it was it
(05:50):
was really awesome, and there were so many other great
acts there and it just felt really cool to be
a part of that. And I was really shocked at
the amount of people that actually came out and we're
singing along and it was really it was crazy. I
had the Wellington boots on apparently supposed to because yeah, exactly,
it was so muddy and rainy, but it was awesome. Yeah.
I couldn't have. I couldn't have warned those that would
(06:11):
have been I would have messed him up. I mean
I did, definitely did. And they were taller than me too.
They were like up to hear it looked like either
like thy high boots. So I've done a little you know,
kind of reading a little bit about your backstory and
and it comes out kind of repeatedly that that early on,
certainly as you were, you know, perhaps learning how to
(06:31):
play guitar and covering some songs maybe in your bedroom,
that you're kind of shy. Yeah, I mean I definitely
was a lot more than I am now. I'm still
sometimes and but I mean definitely, growing up, it was
a lot harder for me to you know, share my
ideas and be creative and even just sing in front
of my own parents. Like I was. I was very
(06:52):
very shy, and I protected that side of me a lot.
And I'm not really sure why. I think maybe it
was just it was just the fear of not being
good enough, failing, or just you know, when something that
presses to you, it's always really scary to give it
away and to just lay it out out there. Um.
But I think I'm hopefully a lot better than I was,
And I mean I performed many places now and I
think it's a lot easier to do that because I've
(07:14):
seen the thankfully that the positive reaction I've received, and
so now I know that it's not that scary anymore.
It's it's in fact, a really great, powerful thing to
be able to do that. So I'm lucky and I'm wondering, though,
what what was it that possessed you to start putting
covers up on YouTube? You know, especially given that you were,
you know, kind of shy. Yeah, well, you know, I
(07:35):
think that's that's actually the reason why I did it,
because I could not sing in front of a group
of people in real life. And so I thought, you know,
if I if this is a dream of mine, how
am I going to overcome this fear of singing for
an audience? So I thought the closest thing to singing
for an audience was doing it in a way that
I didn't have to actually be in front of them.
And so I thought YouTube, you know, use my resources.
As a millennial, I have this great thing called the internet.
(07:58):
Um that I could use this. I don't know what
that is, but yeah, but you know, I think just
at this day and age, we we have all this
this great stuff and we don't always have to be
in front of an audience to get our voices out there.
So I thought, this is a cool way to cheat
my way into it. I don't have to sing in
front of you, but you can still hear my voice,
and I can be in the comfort of my own closet,
(08:19):
because that's where I would record all my covers in
my closet. Yeah, so so you did get, um, you know,
kind of discovered from a YouTube video. What was the
song that seemed to have attracted the interest of this
production company that ultimately contacted you. Um. It was actually
this cover that I did of a song called Sweater
Weather by the Neighborhood, this band called the Neighborhood. Um.
(08:41):
And I don't even remember how I heard it. I
just really loved the song and I didn't really think
anything would become of it, honestly, of my cover, I mean,
not of the song, of course, um, but I just
I just decided to cover it one day. I loved
it and I learned how to play it on guitar.
And at this point I wasn't really getting many views
on my videos, so I definitely didn't expect, you know,
to make it out of the pool of millions of
(09:01):
kids that are posting covers online every day. But yeah,
this production company label EP Entertainment too. Well, Rob, who's
here today? Um? He? Well, this girl, actually this and
R from this production company was you know, serving the
web finding talent, I guess, and she came across my video,
and they took me in, took me under their wing,
and they decided to just help me out. And here
(09:22):
we are. Yeah. Well, I'll get to that. I want
to get to that in a minute. But I'm wondering.
You know, you're talking about sweader Weather and for some
reason you like that song. What is it about a
song that attracts you. I don't know. I mean, I
guess it's always always different. Um, I think I love.
I'm a lyric person, so I love listening to lyrics first,
and if if the lyrics are whether they're ambiguous to
(09:45):
the point where you can kind of create your own meaning,
or if they're really visual or just really great clever lyrics,
I'm a big lyric person. But then, of course, you know,
you can't ever run away from a good ear room melody. Um. Yeah,
So these guys get a hold of you, um or
girls is the case? Maybe girls and girls? And when
they did, did you think it was legit? Um? Not really?
(10:08):
I mean at this point I was only sixteen. Yeah yeah,
And of course when you're when you're that, you know
you're I'm from Brampton, Ontario, Canada. No one even knows
where that is, and like if you're not from there obviously,
and you know when you get a tweet from a
person you've never met before that just says, hey, like
I would like to get in contact with you to
discuss like music. I forget what the exact thing was,
(10:30):
but like to discuss like music or something like that.
And I was like, Okay, this could be spam, this
could be someone that's trying to kidnap me. I don't
know what's going on. So of course I did you
know the safe thing to do kids? And I told
my dad and I said, Dad, can you please just
talk to yeah, check this out, talk to these people.
So I told them. I was like, Okay, I'm gonna
have my dad talked to you, but can you give
(10:51):
us a number to contact because I don't want to
give away personal information. Again, smart thing to do, kids,
don't give away personal information. Um, long story short, my
dad just agreed to it for some reason. I don't know,
because I never thought he would do that, but he did,
and he got on the phone. So why why did
you think he would not do that? Well, because I
come from a traditional Italian family and so doing music
(11:15):
and doing that kind of thing and in my family,
straying away from the typical construction worker hairdresser thing is
not really my family. Literally, of my family's hairdressers and
like the other ten percent is construction. I'm not kidding.
This is not like a stereotypical thing genuinely from my
family is like this. So you know, when I said, hey,
(11:35):
I want to you know, not go to school and
do music, that's not you know, the thing that that
a typical Italian dad wants to hear. So I just
didn't think that, you know, they'd be up for it.
And um, he he was. He was down to at
least take the call. And so we went to New York.
We just picked picked up like a week later, went
to New York saying for these people that we had
never met, and my dad gave them the lecture like,
(11:58):
don't waste our time. We're hard working both if you're serious,
you're serious. But yeah, he gave them the lecture. But
they they were like, no, we're serious, we believe and
how we want you to you know, you want to
work with you And they didn't tie us down to anything.
They just kind of so, so, what I'm interested in
this audition? What did you sing for them? Um, what
did I sing? I think I sang Mirrors by justin Timberlake.
(12:23):
I think I'm pretty sure, like in a conference room somewhere. Yeah,
they took us to like this office. It was like
an office in the Universal Building in New York, and
I was like, okay, I've never been to anything like that.
And they just said, well, all right, you want to
sing this. This is the thing I love about the
music business. And you hear this, you know, repeated often,
and it's a classic story about young artists and producers
(12:45):
or record labels bring them in and they put them
in the worst possible like setting. It's like, okay, now,
now impress us here. You are sitting in some conference
room with fluorescent lights and no sound, and it's like,
you know, blow us away. But you know what, I
think the thing about that is if you can blow
people away with just your voice, I think that's what
makes you. Um, I guess in their eyes good enough
(13:06):
or not good. And I don't want to say good enough,
but that's what makes you special. And you know, I
think that's when people see when you really have something
is when you're able to you know, whether it's move
people or just impress people, or just show people your
talent without all the lights and the fancy mikes and sounds,
and um, yeah, well I think I also think about
and I'm sure you saw this film because I know
(13:27):
this person is a hero to you, the film about
Amy Winehouse. Yes, and there there's a part there I
recall where she's literally in an office or somewhere and
she's just playing guitar and it's not the best setting
in the world, and you're just blown away by what
this person is doing. Yeah, it was amazing. And I've
(13:47):
seen that movie so many times. It's true, like when
you're able to do that, Um, I think that's why
one of the reasons why I look up to her
so much, and why I look up to the people
I look up to in the music world, because they're
able to do that without anything else. They could just
sit there and just sing for you and still move
you with no music, no anything, And that's that's something
really special to be able to do that, And so
(14:09):
that's what I've always strived for. And um, I think
that just comes from honest passion and loving what you
do and just and just really giving everything. And you
could tell with her in particular. She always did that
with every song she ever saying. It was always she
was really singing it, you know, she was never just
like doing it. So it comes to past you sign
(14:32):
up with these guys and girls, um, and they ultimately
set you up with Sebastian Cole. Yes. Did you have
any sense of who that was when you like walked
into the room with him? No? No, I didn't. Um.
I actually I went to one of his shows. He
was playing this I think it was, I don't know
if it was like a little club or a little bar, um,
just to get a sense of what his music style
(14:53):
was and who he was. And I was actually blown
away by his performance. He was amazing. He played these
amazing songs on piano. It was just an all acoustic
piano performance. And so I already became like a fan.
I was like, this is cool. I gets to he
has to teach me how to make songs and I
get to work with him. So we met right after
his performance and I was like, hey, sang for him,
and I just said, um, I think you know they're
(15:13):
setting us up on a blind writing date. So and
he was like, yeah, let's do it. So tell me
about the blind writing date. How did that work? What
did you say when you walked in? Um? Well, the
first thing he said to me was he he took
me outside of the studio and he's like, what's your story?
And again, me being at this point seventeen, I was like,
what is my story? I don't know? So I told
(15:34):
him like, I don't know. I think I'm in the
process of of of making that story. And he's like cool.
So then we came up and the first Yeah, that
was literally it. And then so we went into the room,
he sat at a piano and we started. I just
started talking to him about that concept about not really sure,
not being sure who you are yet and kind of
creating your own story, and we came up with a song.
It was called Only Human. That was the first song
(15:55):
we've ever made. Um And that's from that point on.
That's how we started writing. Every single song. It was
just me telling him something and we would just keep
talking until the song was made, you know. And he's
been quoted as saying that at first, and maybe as
time went on this changed, but at first he had
to get the songs out of you. Yeah, what did
(16:15):
he mean by that? Um? Well, I guess, you know,
touching back with how I was really shy. Um. You know,
you could imagine a young girl just kind of meeting
a person for the first time and having to just
share all of her thoughts and feelings and song ideas
and creative ideas with this person I've never I've never met,
and so I mean I wish I had talked a
bit more now looking back, I just wish I opened
(16:36):
up a bit more. Um. But yeah, in the process, yeah,
looking back now, but I mean he definitely did have
to like literally pull things out of me. Sometimes not literally,
Why am I saying literally pull things? Nothing like that,
but he had to, like he had to pull things
out of me to like, you know, really another caution
to young artists. Don't let producers. Don't let anyone pull anything. Yeah,
(16:57):
nothing out of it. That's yeah. Don't you get any
good songs out of that? Maybe a lawsuit, but no
good songs. Um. So um. Yeah, he had to, you know,
like just get these songs out of me because I
was so shy, and and you know, he would just
be like would you do today, like nothing, and I
just wouldn't say anything because I was so shy, So
he would have to ask me questions, kind of like
therapy for me to open up. But then by the
(17:19):
end that I was good. And I mean now it's
like every time we talk it's always like free. But
now I talked too much. You can tell by now. See.
I just you're pretty good at it, thank you. I'm
good at talking a lot. Yeah, good talker. So I
also read that as you're making this record, you were
like sneaking off from school to go to these recording sessions,
(17:41):
not telling anybody. If it were me and I was
your age, I would have been blabbing to everybody in
in in creation then yeah, I'm going off to make
a record. And you didn't do that. Why I didn't.
I didn't do that for a couple of reasons. I
think you know me. I think I was the type
of student in high school. I just wanted to remain anonymous.
I just wanted to get it over with, to be honest.
(18:03):
And I knew, especially in my school, it was kind
of a small school and the word would get around,
and I just didn't want to be known as that
girl who was like the music freak who would go,
you know, and record songs after school, like I just
didn't want people to know that side. And also, I think,
you know, again, I didn't know what was going to
become of it, and I didn't want to just start
saying like, hey, I'm gonna make an album and get
signed and then nothing happened. So just a couple of
(18:24):
different reasons, I just wanted to keep that side to private.
So I know you said only Human was was the
first song you guys wrote, but here was pretty early
on in my Yeah, it was like the fourth fourth yeah,
if I'm not speaking, so tell me a little bit
about that. What was What was Sebastian's reaction to that song?
So after we were finished, Yeah, we were all just
(18:47):
kind of like this is pretty cool. And I think
all of us were kind of feeling the same thing.
But none of us wanted to be the one to
say like we have the the the song, so we're
all just like this is good. Yeah, we didn't want
to say that. So I think we're all just like
this is this is good, And I was like, hey,
this is cool, but I think all of us are
just kind of like, you know. And then every once
in a while we would as we were making the album,
(19:07):
he would kind of say to me like, I don't
think you know what's happening here, and I'm like, I
think I know, but I don't know. But so it
was always like an unspoken thing. But we all, I think,
had that mutual feeling of like we have we have
something here, this is this is the one. At least
I felt that way listening to your songs, particularly here,
but but others there's this sense of um alienation is
(19:32):
a way that's it's been described. Is that something that
you've experienced. Yeah, actually, definitely UM. And I think a
lot of it, weirdly enough, has it kind of came
from me? And I think I would do it to
myself whole lot of the time. I would separate myself
from everyone in certain situations and I would just often
find myself alienated because of just me, I guess, removing
(19:54):
myself from the world that was high school or the
world that was school, or with other people. And I
don't know, I mean, of course it was inflicted by
other people, but I definitely did a lot of that
alienation to myself. I mean, the song here, you know,
has been called and this is not my words, a
loner anthem. Yeah, you know, which I mean that sounds
(20:17):
kind of catchy to a certain degree. But I'm wonder,
what do you think about that when you hear you know,
someone you know, a critic or otherwise who sort of
boiled down your hard work into this two word catchphrase,
a loner anthem. I think I think that just comes
from them having to put artists in a box. I
think that's just what you do, you know, especially when
(20:38):
you have a new artist, You're like, Okay, where can
we put her? We can't put her with the diva's
Let's put her with the weird awkward kids, because it's
so weird. Because I feel like a lot of people
in the industry, whether it's in the media, are just
in the industry itself. They have a hard time just
saying that Alessia is just Alesia and she doesn't have
to be in a box. She can be in the
category of Alessia and this person can be in that
clategory like people don't. They have a very hard time
(21:00):
processing what that means. And so because of this, they
just have like three or four boxes and they just
put everyone in this space, and that's what it is.
But I mean, I guess if you look at it,
in a positive way. I guess, you know, if it
is helping all the people who feel like loners, then
I'm a loner. I wrote a loaner anthem. I'm good
moving on where we're all loners. Yeah, you know what
I mean. You gotta look at it in a positive way.
(21:21):
But I think that just comes from them not knowing
where to put me, which is weird. But I mean,
you would all concerned that that it kind of paints
a one sided picture of you that that I mean,
you are, you know, as an artist much more than
a loaner anthem. Yeah, sometimes you just wish, you know,
maybe they would have used a different word, or maybe
you just wish they didn't have to describe it at all,
Like here's a song interpreted how you will. But again,
(21:45):
people have a very hard time just processing that. They
need to see something quick so they know where to
put it in their brains. And I'm cool with that.
I was a bit of a loner anyway, so it's fine.
So in the song you describe yourself as an anti
social pessimist. Yes, but now, I mean if you kind
of consider what's you know, what's been going on with
(22:06):
your career, things are moving along, i'd say fairly nicely.
I'm wondering if you've become a little more optimistic. Definitely, Yeah,
I think you know, you realize that many things are
possible through doing this and having the blessings that I've had.
But I think that phrase in the context of the song,
I'm kind of just basically saying like, I'm sorry if
(22:26):
I seem like one right now, but I'm not. I'm
just really uncomfortable, is basically what I'm saying. So I
don't really think I was ever an antisocial pessimist. Uh,
I just think I'm saying that in the song, like
I I just I'm sorry if I seem like one
right now. Yeah. Yeah, I mean the the song does
set up a you know, a very real life situation
that many people I'm sure have experienced talk about. Is
(22:49):
that important to you in terms of writing songs that
that are relatable, relatable to your audience? Um, I mean yeah.
When we're making the album, because I had ever really
released any music at this point, I didn't really know
how quick people relate to things, and so I wasn't
really conscious of it. I just knew that I wanted
to make music that was honest to me. But then
(23:10):
I realized pretty quickly after releasing even Just Here. How
you know, if you make something that's honest to you,
it's bound to relate to somebody because we all, um,
whether we realize it or not, we all really like
live very similar stories, and we all have similar struggles,
are similar things we deal with. So feelings and honest
feelings are very much universal ones. And so as much
(23:31):
as I'm conscious of making things relatable now, I know
that they're bound to be relatable when they're honest and
when they're real, um, you know there they become non
relatable when you're unrelatable, when you're making stuff up and
you know, trying to seem a lot cooler than you actually. Yeah,
and and and so you know, here was was about
maybe not necessarily belonging, and then there's a track Wild
(23:53):
Things that seems to almost be the opposite. Yeah, like
the continuation. Yeah yeah, the intention know part you know,
part B or you know whatever. So that was intentional
on your part to kind of paint the other side
of the coin. Yeah, yeah, you know, because I think
here is basically saying, like, you know, I don't really
belong here. And then while things were saying, but I
don't have to belong anywhere, and this is where I belong.
(24:15):
It's it's in a place in the back of my
mind that I created and it's cool and I love
it here, and I just you know, the title is
where the Wild Things Are. That's just the place that
you know, that non existent place and are subconscious that
I just thought should have a name. But that's where
I think we we all kind of go to when
we feel like we're uncomfortable in certain places, or when
we feel like we don't belong. We should just know
(24:35):
that we can all create this special safe place within
ourselves that we can feel comfortable in and that doesn't
necessarily have to be with other people, doesn't have to
be a real place that actually exists, because it exists
as long as we believe it does. There's another track
on the record, and and this I was very interested in.
Scars to Your Body, Beautiful to your Beautiful, Sorry, Scars
(24:59):
to Your Beautiful. I haven't written down here and I've
heard so many titles, but very much about you know,
body image, um and perception of women and why why
was it important for you to write about that? I
think you know, especially nowadays, I think what girls have
(25:19):
been dealing with this all the time, but since forever.
But I think nowadays, especially with the media and with
all these new standards that have been placed on us,
girls are coming to the point where a lot of
us can't even look in the mirror some days or
any day without feeling like we need to look like
someone else or look like something else, and we just
you know, I know personally for me, and I know
(25:41):
a lot of us, no matter how confident we all are,
we can't even like look at pictures of ourselves or
you know, go outside without just being so conscious of
how we look all the time and just saying I
wish I looked like this person, or I hate this
about myself. I hate that, and it's so it's so bad,
and I think it just comes from us being brainwashed
and being just told this on a daily bay basis
that we have to squeeze ourselves into this unrealistic mold
(26:04):
and if we don't, then we're just not beautiful and
we're just categorized as you know, average or not good
enough or whatever it is. And I think that's really sad,
and I think we should all have the right to
feel a beautiful and confident um without pleasing anybody, because
we're not here for anybody else. Um, We're here for ourselves.
And I think so many women are All women are
(26:24):
way greater than how we look, and we're capable of
so much more than that. And that's what this song
is about. And of course men, I'm sure it can
relate to it as well, but it's just for anybody
who doesn't feel I know. I'm sure some of you
guys want to be buff and cool and some of
you think you're not, but you don't have to be.
It's cool. Um. Yeah, so I just want to thank you.
(26:46):
But yeah, I'm feeling better about myself now. I said,
you don't have there's this whole um kind of thematic
idea that of conscious pop music. Yeah, you know, making
making pop music, you know, legit pop music, but with
you know, some gravitas to it that important to you.
(27:07):
Can't make songs that have some weight, that have a message. Yeah.
You know, if I'm giving a platform to say something,
I might as well say something that is important and
that's worth saying. I would never want to waste the
blessing that I've been given to just like say something
that doesn't make any sense or that's not true to me.
And I'm not saying that I'm going to be making
(27:28):
preach the songs for the rest of my life, and
I'm not always going to make a statement. Um. Sometimes
I'll just make songs about what I'm feeling. But as
long as they're honest to me, and as long as
I'm i feel like I'm putting out a good message
and making people feel like they're not alone, then I'm
doing my job properly. Um. And I guess there is
no proper way to do it. But the way that
I would feel most fulfilled is if I'm speaking for
people who don't always have a voice, because a lot
(27:49):
of us don't. And so if I have a voice,
and if someone up there, whoever, decided to give me
a voice, I might as well use it um for
other people as well. So we were talking upstairs briefly,
I asked you if you had started thinking about record
number two, and don't take this the wrong way. So
(28:10):
you wrote record number one, you know, basically it was
written by someone who had not at that point been
touched by celebrity. Yeah, now you know, here you are
X number of months or a year later, and you're
thinking about writing record number two, and a lot of
things have changed in your life, and I'm wondering, is
(28:33):
it going to be different for you to sit down
and try and make a record now that you've had
this experience. I think, yeah, it's going to be. I
think it will be pretty different, you know, because in
this space of a year and a half, I've sort
of been feeling things that I've never felt before and
I don't even know in like again, I think I
(28:53):
find myself doing the thing that the people do is
like what box do I put this in? What feeling
do I put this in? And I'm having kind of
an interest time putting those feelings into words and figuring
out what it is that I'm feeling and how I
can describe it. UM. This industry kind of forces you
to grow up very quickly, and I've had to become
very responsible and it's challenging. I think, you know, I'm
(29:14):
the same person that was from album one, that's put
in a completely different situation, so tons of new feelings
are gonna rise from that. UM. So it's kind of
an interesting sort of thing creatively to to figure out
how to not only keep it relatable, because you know,
not everyone gets to experience this, So how can I
just make an album talking about, you know, doing this
for a living Like it's not so, I think again,
(29:36):
because I still feel like I'm very much the same
person that was just placed in a different situation. People
are bound to relate to it because we all sometimes
feel isolated, we all sometimes feel scared or excited. Of course,
happy and very normal feelings are coming out of my
abnormal situation. I'm just figuring out how to say them
and how to turn them into music. You've had the chance,
(29:59):
obviously to work, you know, with people like Sebastian Cole.
You've had the chance to watch people like Chris Martin
kind of do what they do, and I'm wondering what
you've learned in the process. I've learned so many things, honestly,
whether it was just you know, how to make a song,
and you know, just as early as Sebastian, like just
watching him not only of course work on my stuff
(30:21):
with me, but work on his own stuff, and he's
just he's just so talented and so that side of
things he just helped me figure out just through watching him.
I just absorbed so much, and he taught me how
to make songs, and then of course watching people like
Chris Martin, just seeing how to take those songs and
throw them at the audience and connect with them and
and make, you know, every single person in that giant
(30:43):
stadium feel like they're the only one there. Just I
think through observing, I've learned so much about what it
means to be a creator and what it means to
take those creations and put them out into the world
and doing it in the right way so that people
can really just feel like like you're with them, that
they're with you, you know. So I'm just I'm just
really lucky that I get to sit back and watch
all these people and like absorb. And I'm so young,
(31:05):
so I have I have a lot of room to
of course make mistakes, but I also have a lot
of room to learn. So very lucky. So fair warning,
were gonna ask for a couple of questions from the
house here in just a minute. But we talked earlier
about Amy Winehouse and and her kind of influence on you.
What was it about her that moved you so many
(31:28):
different things? Honestly, again, going back to what I said
about her just being able to sit there and and
move people with just her voice or with her guitar um.
And I think another thing I loved about her her
still love about her, excuse me, is that she was
just so unapologetically herself and real and no matter what
she said. And if you listen to her songs, a
lot of them are all of them are like very unfiltered,
(31:50):
very real, and and a lot of them she talks about,
you know, doing things like cheating and and her being
at fault, but she wasn't afraid to fail and she
wasn't afraid to admit when she was being human. And
I think that's that's something that is not always around
and not always present, especially in the music industry or
in the media entertainment side of things. And so it's
just really refreshing to have artists like her who just
(32:13):
really said it how it was and was unafraid and
unapologetically herself. What what are? What are? The artists have
moved you? I was really big on still I'm really
big on like Lauren Hill, the Fugies, Black Eyed peas Um,
who else, pink Um. I really love Rihanna because if
(32:33):
you look at Rihanna. Yeah, she's amazing. She's just like again,
so unapologetically herself. She doesn't care, she is who she
is and she kills it and it's awesome. So it's
really nice to see competent women just doing what they do.
And and you say that, um um. And we talked
a little bit about, you know, putting out positive messages,
and I'm wondering, even at a young age, do you
(32:54):
see yourself as a role model. I mean, I don't
necessarily see myself as one, because I'm you know, probably
a lot younger than a lot of the people who
listen to my music anyway, so if anything, they could
probably teach me about life. But you know, at the
same time, if people see me as a role model,
and if people see me as someone that they connect
to and that someone who can help give them advice
(33:16):
through my music, then I mean it's it's on you
if you want to take it or not. I'm not
saying I'm right. I'm just saying this is what I
think I've learned in these twenty years of living. And
if you think that that it's right, and if you
think it's helped you, then I'm happy to to be
a role model. I guess you got to perform, uh,
spend a little time perhaps with Taylor Swift, and you know,
she has a remarkable relationship with her fans and and
(33:40):
her audience built up over over years. But but she
really does have this kind of unique relationship with a
you know, very large kind of worldwide audience. Is that
something you aspire to is kind of building that ongoing
relationship with fans? Yeah? Absolutely. And I think the reason
I heard fans have stayed with her all this time
(34:01):
again is because she's one of those people who just
put out honest music and people don't ever forget that,
and people don't ever lose that connection onen do you
make it with them? And she's always been so so
great at just being honest and real with with her
fans and with her music. And if that's something I
can do, that be that would be awesome because I'd
rather have fans for that reason and for the right reasons,
just because I have a catchy song, I wear cool
(34:23):
clothes or whatever, because I definitely don't these are like
really old. Um, you made a very difficult decision, you
know too, you were at a fork in the road.
It's like music college and you decided to go with
music scary road yeah yeah, um, which you actually said
was was kind of You went with your gut. Yeah.
(34:45):
For me it wasn't scary and what not. That wasn't scary.
It was easy for me to say, this is what
I want to do. Yeah. I'm wondering if you what
other have you made other gut level decisions you know
since then, where you know, maybe it isn't necessarily the
UH would have been considered the right way to go,
but you went with your gut yeah all the time
(35:06):
pretty much. I mean because if you think, if you
make decisions with your brain, it might fail you. If
you make decisions with your heart, it might fail you.
But if you make decisions with your gut, it, like
I would say, I don't think it ever fails you
if you really know deep down what the right thing is.
And I mean sometimes it's not about like predicting the future.
It's just about what feels right for you and what
you know is going to make you the most comfortable.
(35:26):
So every decision I make, even if it's a small
one or something as big as like what singles should
I put out or what should go on the album
or what album should I put out? Or you know,
I think it's always important to go with your guts.
So honestly, every decision I made, from all the singles
I put out, everything I put on the album, everything
is just always been just what feels right in my gut.
So um, we'd like to take a question or two
(35:48):
from from the assembled thronging here yes, right here, Yes, yeah,
jingle Ball. Yes. The question was are you excited to
see any other artists? Absolutely? Yeah. I got to do
jingle Ball last year, and I got to see all
(36:09):
these other artists play like almost every day, so I
would go out and just watch them and it was cool.
It's like you're touring. You literally are touring with a
bunch of other people, and a lot of the artists
this year are some of my favorites, so I'm excited
to name one. There are a bunch like, Okay, who
I'm into. I'm into Toblo, I'm into Ariana Grande, I'm
into Justin Bieber. Every honestly, everyone that's I think Bruno
(36:30):
Mars is also playing a couple and he's like incredible.
Me into Bruno Mars. Everyone that's honestly playing is really
great right now? So yes, right here? Um, going back
to like how do you see yourself as a whole
model like with Scarpinger you single and stuff like that,
like obviously a lot more like women and grown looked
up to you, but like how do you manage to
(36:50):
like stay so humble like and how do you like
kind of straight away from not getting that mentality? Abo?
Oh thank you? So the question for those who didn't hear,
can you guys all here, how do you how do
you maintain kind of your your even keel um? I
think for me, I mean, of course the one thing
I know, as cliche as it sounds, keep the right
people around you, because it's just it's so important in
(37:13):
this in this world of music. But also for me,
I honestly have have never been interested in fame or
that side of things. I actually get scared of it.
I don't enjoy the attention when it's not on the music,
and so I try to just straight away from it
as much as possible. And it's just easy for me
to not get a big head about it because it's
not something that I want. So I'm just like, no,
(37:35):
just only on the music, please, Like the thing about
you know what I mean. So I'm always like staying
away from that stuff in the back working with Troy Savon, who,
by the way, we've had here he's I know I
heard he's so he's so awesome. I love him. He Um,
it was amazing. He is one of my favorite artists.
And the song wild to the one that I fortunately
(37:55):
got to be on, which was amazing. Um, that's one
of my favorite songs off his album. And I made
that very clear to him a million times, and so
he just texted me one day and he's like, if
I send you the instrumental, do you want to like
write a verse for it and be on it. I
was like, uh yeah, So I did it. It was
the easiest decision I ever made. We got we got
time for one more, yes or right there? So I
(38:16):
just wanted to ask, um, what's the jewel on your record? Like,
what's the one song that you're really trout of writing
me really kind of just ques you, but also really
thought of to kind of put you know, no one
hearing that people like the one that stands out, the
one that stands out very good shortening, good question I
(38:40):
think for me. I mean, I'm proud of all the songs,
but I think for me, the one that's always kind
of close to my heart for a couple of reasons
is four Pink Walls. First of all, because it was
the first song that I ever really wrote by myself,
completely without anyone, and that was really important for me
to do because, again, just coming from someone who's never
made music to you know, learning from Sebastian and just
seeing him work and stuff, I just really wanted to
(39:00):
be like, Okay, I'm gonna try this on my own,
and I did, and it was it was on the album,
and I was really proud of it. And I think
also what I'm talking about, I'm basically talking about, you know,
starting off life in my four pink bedroom walls, staring
at those same walls and aspiring, you know, to do
all these things, and aspiring to be all these different things,
and just having that doubt in the back of my
mind that I wasn't going to be able to do it,
(39:21):
and so now the fact that I am doing it,
there's such a big contrast between my life then and now,
and that's what the song is about. It's about that
feeling of wanting to know outside of or explore outside
of what you're used to. So I'm just proud of
being able to make that song because it shows that
I've come a long way, and again because I wrote
it all about myself. So last question, speaking of four
(39:43):
Pink Walls, there's there's there's a song on there and
there's a line that says, I thought the only place
for my dreams was in my dreams. Yeah, and now
as you look at what's happened to you, when you
think about that line, how do you how do you
feel it's crazy? I do. I mean, I think I'm
taking a line. I'm stealing a line from my dad
(40:03):
because he always says that he has this famous line
where it's like it feels like a dream still waiting
to wake up. So that's why it really just still
feels like I'm in that dream. It's very you know.
And I guess it's weird to imagine or to think
about the fact that I'm really living this stuff because
I've lived all of this stuff in my head so
many times growing up, Like I've been here before. I
(40:26):
know how this works in my brain because I've imagined
it so many times, so it's crazy to think that
this time it's actually really happening to me. It's hard
to differentiate. I can't say that word differentiate, differentiate, sorry,
between the reality and what was just in my head.
So it's crazy that I'm actually living it. It's very surreal. Well,
(40:46):
it isn't surreal for us that you actually came and
and and hung out for a while. We're so pleased
that you took the time. Um, ladies and gentlemen, Lessia
car thank you, thank you so much. Following our talk,
Alessia one Best New Artist at the sixtieth Annual Grammy Awards.
(41:07):
In her acceptance speech, she talked about the need to
provide greater opportunities for aspiring musicians to be heard and supported.
I don't think it's often that you hear a young
artist discussing a desire to write conscious pop music and
not waste anyone's time. And that's your required listening for today.
(41:28):
We're coming to you with fresh episodes every Thursday. Keep
the conversation going. We're on all the socials at Grammy Museum.
If you're coming to Los Angeles, I hope you'll visit us.
All the info is at our website Grammy Museum dot org. Finally,
thanks to the team that brings you required listening Jason James,
Justin Joseph, Jim Cannella, Lynn Sheridan, Miranda Moore, Callie Weissman,
(41:49):
Lynn Brown, Michael Rohorbacker, Jason Hoap, Chandler May's Nick Stump,
and everyone at How Stuff Works. Until next time, I'm
Scott Goldman s
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