June 27, 2018 • 38 mins
Fresh off the heels of his latest album Billy Porter Presents: The Soul of Richard Rodgers, the TONY and GRAMMY-winning singer, composer, actor, playwright, and director sat with Scott Goldman to discuss his distinguished career and the making of what marks his fourth solo studio album.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Required Listening. I'm your host, Scott Goldman, Executive
director of the Grammy Museum. Each week in the Climb
Davis Theater, I have the chance to speak with artists
from across the musical spectrum about their careers, their inspirations,
and their creative process. Now with Required Listening, I'm excited
to share these interviews with you. In today's episode, my
(00:24):
conversation with Tony Award winning singer, actor, songwriter and playwright
Billy Porter Jr. He first came to prominence in the
first Revival of Greece, appeared in films, and ultimately won
a Tony Award for originating the incredible role of Lola
in Kinky Boots. But it's his passion for his craft,
(00:45):
his commitment to his artistry that is absolutely palpable. You
can hear that commitment when he talks about how theater
plucked him from the darkness, how it literally saved his life.
You'll also hear his unique thoughts about himself as an
artist and what owning the leader really means to him. Finally,
(01:07):
he makes the key discovery that opens the door to
the rest of his career. So let's go to the
Clive Davis Theater and listen to my conversation with Billy
Porter Jr. What's happened to y'all? I want to start
(01:31):
by talking about the record and then we can kind
of roll the video tape back. This is a fantastic
project and I'm wondering for you what was the genesis
of this? When did this idea start to percolate? Well,
it's interesting because, um, you know, I'm obsessed with theater.
I'm obsessed with those older songs, you know, just the
way that they're written. I'm a believer and understanding where
(01:54):
you come from, understanding what the rules are so you
can break them, you know. So and you know that
are breaking them. And it's a choice and not just
by accident. The songwriters who I am in love with,
you know. One of them was Stephen Sondheim from the
Theater and you know, I was sort of miffed that
they didn't cast black people in those shows. But I
(02:14):
still love the music, you know, and so I had
this idea, this crazy idea to like do different arrangements
of the music, you know, make them black, black them up. Um,
and Susie Deeds, who's a theater producer, um, she sort
(02:34):
of produced the show and we actually put it up
and it was Stephen Sondheim's music done in like R
and B and soul and gospel and rapping hip hop styles,
and so we did that. It was a great success.
And Raprise Theater company which she ran for a while,
was out here and they were doing a Richard Rogers
season and she said, oh, you should, you should do
(02:57):
the same treatment to Richard Roger's music that you did
with like it could be a thing. And they were
doing a concert and they said, just do a concert
of it, like see what happens. And so Ren Brown
at the Nate Holden Theater you know in the Black
area of town, hosted it for us, and it was
a great success. So fast forward. That was back in
two thousand nine. Fast forward, you know my patrons of
(03:22):
the art, Susie Diets and Letty Be or her husband
who's in the music business now. He yes, so he
got a deal on Sony and he said, oh, I
want to sign you and you should make a record
and you should do that Brigard Rogers thing. And that's
how it happened. And that's sort of that. That was
the impulse and we also learned to that when people
(03:47):
know the song, the deconstruction of the arrangement becomes that
much more amazing to them because they know where it
came from. And so I think with Richard Rogers music,
it's been great because, um, you know, that was the
pop music of its day. You know, that was the
Golden Age pop music. And everybody on the planet knows
(04:08):
a Richard Roger song. Even if you don't know that,
you know why, you know, And so you know, wash
that Man right out of My Hair was a shampoo commercial.
You know, everybody knows my funny Valentine. At least. It's
like certain kinds of music are just in part of
your d N. Yeah, and so the music being in
our d N I has allowed for the project to
(04:31):
resonate I think um in a really great way. But
You've always kind of made this connection between Broadway and
soul music, and I'm wondering, why does Broadway music and
soul music works so well together for you? I think
it is my journey to it. I grew up singing
(04:54):
in the church, uh, singing gospel music, singing UM, R
and B and soul music, and you know, the childhood
wasn't so lovely. I was looking for stuff to sort
of just like occupy my time, get me out, like
you know what was it? And in the sixth grade
(05:14):
I was introduced to theater. Being on stage in a
theatrical production and going to a Pentecostal church are kind
of the same thing. Pentecostal church service on Sunday morning
is theater of the highest order. So it just worked
for me for whatever reason, it worked. But I found
(05:37):
inside of the infrastructure of theater and commercial theater that
the two worlds were very often opposite um and didn't
really come together. And I just didn't feel like that
was right. I didn't feel like it was okay because
here I am standing here. You know, I am this
person from this world who loves all of this stuff,
(06:00):
and so why can't they come together? Um. I didn't
know that it was a life's mission at the time,
but now, all these years later, it's like I've been
doing it since then. You know, theater saved my life.
You know, it's saved my life. It plucked me out
of the darkness. You know, it plucked me out of
(06:22):
what could have been my demise. It could have destroyed me.
You know, I could have been a statistic. I was
set up to be a statistic when you look at
it on paper. I was supposed to be a statistic
and it was theater that saved that. So in order
(06:43):
to honor that for myself, there's never any going away
from it. And you mentioned this, you know a little bit,
that Richard Rodgers and his music was pop music of
the day. Is it important for you to remind people
that Broadway music isn't just something that a started with
(07:08):
the Lion King, by the way, no disrespect to the
Lion King, um that there is a long history and
that there was a time where this was the pre
eminent music in this country. Absolutely, it was the pop music.
Everybody knew it. And I just feel like, I mean,
recently it's opened up, it's cracked open. But when I
(07:31):
started in the business, you know, back in the eighties,
it was like, you know, to say that you were
a theater artist was the kiss of death because in
the record business, you know, I had a deal, I
had a record deal in the nineties on A and
M Records, and I was instructed to not talk about
the three Broadway shows that I was at, you know,
(07:51):
there would rather I just come out of nowhere. It
was very difficult, and and and I feel like, you know,
we've always been here. I know Hamilton's has you know,
smashed through the glass ceiling, but the rest of us
have actually been here working in the trenches for the
last thirty years. And that's no disrespect to Hamilton's. You know,
it's like it's but but we've been doing it. I've
(08:13):
been standing here doing it. We've been standing here doing it.
Many of us have been standing here doing it for decades.
So I'm thrilled that now people are listening in a
different way. I also think it's the Internet, you know.
I also think it's really interesting because the Internet has
(08:35):
brought all of the theater geeks together and swirled them up,
and now it's popular again because there are just as
many of us as there are in every other genre
and connect and it wasn't available before you Eat. You know,
with this project, you take on a little bit of
a different role in that you know that it's Billy
(08:56):
Porter Presents. You are the producer and the curator of this.
You're not necessarily on every track. Why take that on?
Why not just do Billy Porter sings the soul of
Richard Rodgers and make it your project. Well, first of all,
I have the most talented friends on the planet, and
I love working with talent. I love working with my friends.
(09:18):
I've always been that person. I've always done that, so
it sort of seems second nature to me to do
something like this. But I also, you know, in terms
of my space, in my place in the industry and
in the business and in the world as as a
creative person, I began to understand a number of years
(09:40):
ago that the ideas that I have, the vision that
I have, everybody doesn't have that, you know, because I'm
surrounded with so many talented people in my life. You
just sort of assumed that everybody, everybody has a talenty.
Everybody I know has a town comment. That's not normal,
(10:01):
it's not common. And I have ideas in my head
and in my brain, and I never you know, I'm
the I always say, I'm the last of a generation
of people who were taught to be brilliant interpreters of
other people's material as an actor, as a you know,
like you went to drama school and you learned how
(10:21):
to do the classics and the Shakespeare and the check
off and the Dada and you learned how to sing
the classics Rogers and heart Rogers happen. You're like you
if if the idea of creating it for yourself wasn't
already instinctively and you it wasn't something that people sort
of encourage. The Internet has encouraged the whole generation of
(10:42):
do it yourself first, for better or for worse. Uh,
sometimes you should and sometimes you shouldn't. But with that said,
you know, for me, the way that I entered the business,
the way that I entered the theater industry, I had
a very special, old, specific kind of voice. When I
(11:03):
started in the business and I got to New York,
I played that trump card. You know, it was a
ha ha ha gospel, like blow the roof off the
joint boys, and you know, I got work and I
got work. But after a number of years, I realized
it was pigeonholing me into um a space that I
felt uncomfortable. You know. It was like, you want me
(11:24):
to come and stop your show, but when it's time
to tell my story, you're not interested. And so for me,
I had to make the decision that that was no
longer okay. And when I made that decision and started
demanding a different kind of um respect from the people
(11:45):
who could give you work. The work dried up and
I was left with no work. And it was the
best thing that could have happened to me because it
made me go deeper, and it made me ask different
questions of myself and challenge myself in different ways and
(12:06):
become the person who standing before you. Well, and you
said something fascinating about this, and I'm gonna quote you
because I love this you've talked about, and this is
the quote owning the leader in me? Tell me what
that means. What is owning the leader means. It's interesting
because I've always felt like a leader. But you know,
(12:31):
there was this part of me coming from the church,
the idea of you can't be braggadocious. You know, it's
a gift, and so therefore you need to be humble. Um.
And that's all good, but the humility of it, I
think for me, it reached the ceiling and I had
(12:54):
to go, you know what, I actually know what I'm doing,
and I actually need to be out in the front
doing that. So I'm gonna honor that, I'm gonna own that.
I'm going to have faith in that I'm gonna step
out on faith and I'm gonna do it. Tell me
about choosing the material, tell me about the repertoire, because
(13:14):
I'm wondering. Was it a case of, Okay, I got
the repertoire, now I'm gonna find the artists, or is
it more a case of I got these artists? What's right? Well,
it was it was both. When we did the concert,
the idea and the concept was classic to the contemporary
Broadway and soul, which is my brand. You know. We
(13:39):
did a lot of arrangements, starting from jazz and all
the way up to like hip hop and wrapping gospel
and all of that. And when we were putting this
album together, I went back and started listening to the concert,
and I thought, yeah, I need one thing. And the
thing that I need, and the thing that hasn't been
in the market before, is to take this material and
(14:02):
do these R and B soul gospel treatment contemporary gospel
treatments of them, because that hasn't been done. So that
became the focus. So I knew that. So I knew
whatever songs we choose from this group of songs that
we already have arrangements for, we're gonna have to flip
the arrangements a bit and make them all sonically sound
(14:24):
the same, and I want them to sound urban and
contemporary and relevant and present today. So we knew that.
Then the artists sort of fell into place. They've kind
of found themselves. It's like, let us see, uh, you know,
she was in the concert in two thousand and nine,
so I said, well, what do you want to do?
(14:45):
Of the four songs that she sang, which one would
you want? Bewitched? Okay, you got that, so you know this,
So that sort of happened like that. Brandon, Victor Dixon
and Josh Henry, who I was in shuffle along with
last season. You know, they have this really interesting, fun
(15:06):
kind of rivalry in the business where they're always up
at the same parts. They're always playing the same parts.
They're both playing Aaron Burr right now and separate companies
of Hamilton's. And then there's this going back to some time.
There's this song and into the Wood called Agony, where
the prince is sort of vie for the affection of
a person. I thought, oh, wouldn't it be interesting to
(15:26):
do like an urban version of that sense of with
the Richard Rogers song, which is why it goes into
that like R and B you know, thing off thing
at the end, you know, because they're vying for each
other's love. Cynthia Rivo, It's like she has to I
has to say that, and I have to and I
(15:47):
have to stop you there because um. You know, I
saw an interview with her speaking specifically about you and
this project and this this has to be remarkable. And
I don't know if she said this to you, but
she said this interview. I trust Billy implicitly. I trust him,
you know, with the song choice. I trust him with
you know, kind of my artistic role in this. What
(16:11):
does that kind of trust from a fellow artist mean
to you? You know, I'm only now beginning to be
able to take it in. Like I said before, it's
like I'm such a worker and I have blinders on
all the time, and so I don't always feel it.
But this project has helped me to feel that, you know,
(16:31):
working with India as well, it's like I've met India. Um. India,
I re um who came to see Shuffle Along. She
sort of came backstage looking for me. You know. She
has been a healer her music has healed me, has
healed my soul for decades, you know. So to have
(16:52):
her standing in front of me, I was like, okay,
well we need to work together. What show number? And
I had no idea. This is going back to that
idea of how did the songs come together. I had
no idea that she was gonna be on this record,
and then the election happened. Literally the day after the
(17:15):
election happened, I thought carefully taught India ire and I
picked up the phone and called her. And it was
interesting to me because speaking of how does it feel?
I brought her into the studio with every intention that
it was going to be a solo. We worked on
the arrangement, we sent it to her, everything was cool.
(17:35):
I walked into the studio, I said, okay, so what
you know, how do you like to work? Do you
like to run it all the way down? Do you
like to line my line? Do you like phrase my phrase?
And she said, I thought I was singing this with you.
That's it the way I'm and I and it just
took my breath away because I didn't it was never
even a like. I wanted the space for her to
(17:57):
be able to speak, and she made it a duet,
and that's astonishing. There were things that producers can do
in the course of making records. They can shape the sound,
they can shape songs, they can be the psychologist for
for for the artists. And I'm wondering, in the process
(18:18):
of doing this with so many different artists, did you
play that role? Were you the sounding board in terms
of how should we approach this? Absolutely? Absolutely, you know,
I always love speaking to the artist and hearing what
it is that's in their heart, you know, the specificity
of a person's voice, of a person's style. I've always
(18:42):
been able to understand what that is, and I only
only only want to make sure that we're lifting the
artist up to be the best version of themselves that
they can be. That's what a producer does, that's what
a creative leader does us. And it's about releasing my
(19:03):
own ego. It's not about me. I understand that, you know,
a long time ago. You know, it's the transition of intention,
you know, going from the naive idea that superstardom was
what I wanted, you know, because superstardom would get me out,
you know, superstardom would make my mommy love me even
(19:26):
though I was gay, you know, like superstardom would solve
all of those problems that I thought I had. And
I realized it's not about that at all. I was
watching Oprah one day as I am want to do
UM and she was on there with with my Angelou
and Elanna Van Sant, and they were talking about um,
(19:47):
you know, I I I gotta get my spiritual stuff.
And they were talking about service, you know, like intention
and service, whatever it is that you do for a
living service, Like what does that mean? And so I
began to ask myself that question, how can I be
of service in an industry that um, how can I
(20:09):
be of service to something other than my own ego
and my own bank account, in an industry that is
inherently narcissistic? And that journey began. And when that intention changed,
my life completely turned around. And now everything I do.
You know, there's some connection. It's like Kinky Boots never
(20:32):
would have happened. Kinky Boots is service. You know, you
go to see that show. That's of service. All those
little gay boys who don't feel like they have a place.
They stopped me on the street every day. You saved
my life. You changed my life. I was somewhere the
other day that sixteen year old boy was like, can
(20:53):
I give you hug? You know, it's like that is
more important to me than any accolade or you know,
check You've got um Leslie on him jrs on on
this record, And I was interested to learn he was
a student of yours. Yes he was, and Petina Miller
as well. And I'm wondering, what did you see in
(21:15):
him as a student? I saw a person who was individual,
just like I was individual, who was special just like
I was special, and was still made to believe that
who they were wouldn't work because nobody had seen it before.
(21:39):
And it's like, we have to understand that just because
it hasn't been seen before doesn't mean that it's not valid.
So for me, it was about helping these younger people
hold on to what specifically makes them them. You know,
it's like the sound of the voice. You know, that's
(22:01):
not a sound that's usually associated with theater. You know,
for me, I was put in his life to say
keep that sound, you don't change that sound. You you've
called him I think a modern day Kruoner. Yes he is.
He is in the sense that you know, like a
nack king cole. You know something I can never do.
Like I listen to him and I'm like, yeah, I
(22:22):
can't do that. That's not what I do. I'm a screamer.
But you know, it's about us all owning who we
are and loving that and not letting anybody take that away.
You also have and I believe she might be here tonight.
Um you've got let us see, yes, is she here?
(22:43):
You here? I heard something. It's a terrific track, and
you've talked about her in particular. Please don't take this
the wrong way that this is his quote, raw but focused.
You know, listen, I don't like floppy singing. I don't
(23:07):
like off pitch singing. I don't like it being blamed
on being raw. It's raw emotions. So it's okay that
you ain't on pitch. I'm not that person. I don't
like that, you know, because I believe that you can
be raw and still be on pitch. That's what I'm
talking about. I believe that you can be raw and
(23:27):
not fall out of your riffs. I believe you can
do that. That's what she is. You know, That's what
I meant by that. You know, because we get into
this space in this world where we give people passes
for just not being good. It's not good singing, huh.
You know. It's like you get in a line and
(23:49):
you win an award, you win a reality television contest,
and you don't have any craft. You can't sustain it,
you know. I want to talk ship on theater people.
I do it eight times a week and Hills eight
times a week. That's what I believe in. Now, that's
(24:10):
my thing, you know, And that's what I meant when
I said that about it. I mean, it's a terrific track.
By the way she does the song bewitched, Yes, bothered
and bewildered. Yes. And there's a young man on the
track who's actually here with us as well. It's like
your park yes, And I'm wondering how were you introduced? Okay,
So I have to tell the story about putting the
(24:33):
album together. So my writing partner, musical director for fourteen years,
James sam Plainer, who's sitting over there. So we originally
did the concert back in two thousand and nine, the
arrangement together. So when we started working on this record
and I was like, well, I wanted to be more
(24:54):
hip hop orient, you know, like I want to bring
like an edgier side, and and I looked at the
both of us and I was like, okay, we can
take it to a certain level, but like we need
something else. We need like a ringer. And this guy
who I had known back in the nineties when I
had my first deal hip hop R and B soul
(25:16):
rap producer, popped into my head. It's just it's like
it's divine when it happens like that. I popped into
my head. Hadn't spoken to him in ten years. And
I looked on my phone and they were like seventeen numbers,
and I like, did this and just pressed one and
he picked up the phone. And that's Michael sand Loofer
who's sitting over there. So the trifecta of us sort
(25:42):
of is what brought this album together. And zire Park
he's he's his artist. He produces people, so he's his artists.
And we were, you know, I was trying to get
some of the Hamiltonians in there the rap with me,
but you know, they got TV shows and movie gigs
and ship and stop returning my telephone calls. So I said, well,
I'm not gonna be held hostage. I got some other
(26:04):
bitches who I can't pull out. It's all right, we
all got a gig. We got some other rappers. But
he brings in particular energy that I think is yeah,
perfect for this. Yeah, it's it's you know, to spit
(26:26):
the rhymes as they call it. Am I saying, I'm right,
you know, because I've missed the whole rap thing. Um,
you know, it was another it was yet another group
of people who didn't like me, you know, kill the
police and kill the faggots. So I'm not spending money
(26:46):
on that. I gotta save myself. So I missed a
movement as a result of that. And I feel jipped,
you know, because I meet people like Zaire and I
go Wow, It's the artistry in it, the word smith,
this craft of it is just mind blowing. It's mind
blowing to me. And I'm glad now that we live
(27:09):
in a different space, you know, in the world where
I can now you know, dive into that, go back
and dive into the stuff that wasn't obliterating me as
a human being, you know what I mean. I'm really
excited about that. And that's what Zaire brings. And he's
so young and spry. You know, I feel like Grandpap.
(27:38):
You know, the world changed while you were making this record,
literally and the election happened, and I'm wondering if the
record changed for you in the process of the world
happening around it. I'm gonna tell you how the record changed.
It happened. And you know, I'm a really political person.
(28:02):
I've always been political, you know, being black and being gay,
and you know, I came out during the during the
Eighth Crisis. We had to go directly to the front
lines to fight for our lives. There was nothing else
that you could do. I had no luxury of being
on anybody's down low. We had to fight for our lives.
So that was what it was. Um So with that,
(28:27):
it was always political, you know, like analvice. We know
what analvice is. You know. We know that the Bond
Trapp family sings that as the Nazis are trying to
come in and occupy blah blah blah. You know, so
that was there, carefully taught, was not on the record.
That literally happened the day after. And then wash that man,
(28:48):
you know, wash that man right out of my hair.
Was the original idea was to have Fantasia and then
the election happened and Toddrick Hall have been cast as
Lola and Kinky Boots, and I thought, Miss Lola is
exactly the target for this administration metaphorically, that's the target.
(29:13):
That's one of the targets, and we have to speak
to them directly from that space. That's where watched that
man came from, and you know, Richard Rodgers was speaking
about issues that are still relevant today. Yeah, and that
was one of my things is that you know, they
were pushing the envelope and they were having the conversations
(29:35):
that were difficult to have. And you know, we live
in this this shut up and sang environment because the
idea is to squash critical thought, you know, and make
people followers. And we as creative people have always been
the ones who've been able to speak truth to power creatively.
We've always been the ones who've been able to reach
across the aisle when our politicians choose not to or
(29:59):
can't or what ever the situation is. And so that service,
you know, like that makes me feel like getting up
in the morning and I'm contributing to the world, you
know what I mean, and that so so yeah, it
literally changed the whole tone of the album and how
(30:25):
I present it. Actually, really one of the great things
I read that you said about this record, and it
may have come kind of through the process of getting
through the election, is you wanted to show the world
how fierce Broadway is. Yeah, yeah, it's you know, there's
been this idea for years that Broadways corny. You know
(30:45):
that Broadway can't hold up to traditional pop. We don't
sing that way, y'all can't thing like that, y'all can't,
you know, And it's not true, as you can see
on this record. It's not true. Um. And and you
chose Adalweis to close the record. Why did you want
to sing that song? It's a we. We did a
(31:05):
contemporary gospel arrangement of it. And you know, while the
doctrines of the church religion, which is man made, spirituality
is divine, you know, I had to leave that space too.
But what I haven't left is the music. Separating the
(31:30):
messenger from the ministry is something that I've been able
to do and have had to do with gospel music
because at my core that's what fuels me. So while
it's not a traditional gospel song, it's a contemporary gospel
take on that song, and I knew that that was
(31:51):
what I had to do on the record. I had
to make that statement on the record. So we've got
time for a couple of questions from the house here,
So do we have a question or two? Yes, sir,
right here. This past weekend was the final eighth Project
Los Angeles Stage Benefits. I heard I know that you
participated in the past. I was wondering how you got
(32:12):
involved and if you have any interesting anecdotes. I do
have an interesting antidote. The first one that I did
was probably nineteen on I sang a song time song
and Peter Matt's was still alive. Peter matt came over
(32:33):
to my apartment. I had a piano in my apartment,
and we sat down and did an arrangement of what
can you Lose and not a day goes by. I
don't talk about that very often, but Peter Matt's was
in my house and we did an arrangement together, and
I was twenty two years old in the back way
(32:57):
in the back. First of all, I love you, Thank
you Later, right, I'm saying, yes, that's the whole point.
You see this outfit, you think I walked down the
street in this outfit every day. I got an outfit
for you bitches, because they need to hear you. And
(33:19):
my sustity is what would you give me a singer
who's what would you tell them? In terms of trying
to find you they are the only thing that you
can be is the best version of yourself. You know,
It's like I lived it. People tried to make me
(33:39):
something else because who I am and what I've represent
made them uncomfortable. So the minute you stopped caring about that,
you find your voice. The minute you stopped caring about
other people's successes, you know, other people's successes are not
your face. Earlier, you're in a race and you turned
(34:03):
around to look at where the other people are, and
you fall and everybody passes you up. Stay the course,
mind your business, do you the end, no matter how
long it takes, you know what I mean. It's like
it took way longer that I ever thought it was
(34:25):
gonna take. Trust me, you know. And last question, because
it ties right in. You've talked about your career in
terms of endurance, and and you know you said the
race is not given to the swift nor the strong,
but to the one who endures in the end to
the end, to the end. You know, I go back
(34:45):
to Bonnie Ray, you know, I remember her winning for
I Can't Make You Love Me and that album that's
just kind of bullet nick of time that blew up.
And I wasn't even really in it in it at
the time time, you know, but I remember sitting watching
and going, wait, something just happened. That's rare. Like this
(35:07):
woman is old. She's not supposed to be doing this right,
you know what I mean, Like life was supposed to
have had passed her by at this point. You know,
I remember olympiad Caccus, you know, talking about that, you know,
when she was like, I'm fifty something years old. I
got an oscar. And that's what I mean about intention changing.
(35:32):
You want to be a star, that's bullshit. That's some
young naive bullshit. You want to be an artist, You
want to be an artist who has something to say.
Then you're never leaving, you're never stopping, you know, because
it's not about the ego. It's about what's in here,
and it's about what you were called to do. I
(35:54):
have been called to do this on this earth, in
this moment right now. So whether people are listening or not,
George Steve Wolf, one of my mentors, said, you gotta
you know, you can't wait for anybody to give you
permission to practice your art. If you're an artist, you're
gonna be doing it all the time, whether people are
listening or not. Well, we could not be more pleased
(36:24):
to have had the chance to listen to you, not
only tonight, but in your career to this point and
this album, which is fantastic. Thank you, so, first of all,
thank you for taking the time. Thank you for having
me a chance. How about the Grammy Museum, y'all. I'm thinking, y'all, shit,
(36:46):
get it up for Billy Porter. It isn't often that
you hear an artist talk about his transition of intention
and turning toward the idea of service in his career,
(37:07):
and how keeping that sense of service to others is
what ultimately changed his life and career. I would encourage
you to seek out some Billy Porter music or check
out the soundtrack to Kinky Boots, and you'll get a
great sense of this remarkable artist. So that's your required
listening for today, and let's keep the conversation going We're
(37:33):
on all the social platforms at Grammy Museum. All the
info about our activities are exhibits and our programs is
at our website grammy museum dot org. As always, props
to the team that makes required listening happen every week,
Jason James, Justin, Joseph Kelly Weisman, Lynn Sheridan, Miranda Moore,
Jim Cannella, Jason Hope, Chandler May's, Nick Stump, Lenn Brown,
(37:57):
and everyone at How Stuff Works. Until next time, I'm
Scott Goldman, h
Welcome to Required Listening. I'm your host, Scott Goldman, Executive
director of the Grammy Museum. Each week in the Climb
Davis Theater, I have the chance to speak with artists
from across the musical spectrum about their careers, their inspirations,
and their creative process. Now with Required Listening, I'm excited
to share these interviews with you. In today's episode, my
(00:24):
conversation with Tony Award winning singer, actor, songwriter and playwright
Billy Porter Jr. He first came to prominence in the
first Revival of Greece, appeared in films, and ultimately won
a Tony Award for originating the incredible role of Lola
in Kinky Boots. But it's his passion for his craft,
(00:45):
his commitment to his artistry that is absolutely palpable. You
can hear that commitment when he talks about how theater
plucked him from the darkness, how it literally saved his life.
You'll also hear his unique thoughts about himself as an
artist and what owning the leader really means to him. Finally,
(01:07):
he makes the key discovery that opens the door to
the rest of his career. So let's go to the
Clive Davis Theater and listen to my conversation with Billy
Porter Jr. What's happened to y'all? I want to start
(01:31):
by talking about the record and then we can kind
of roll the video tape back. This is a fantastic
project and I'm wondering for you what was the genesis
of this? When did this idea start to percolate? Well,
it's interesting because, um, you know, I'm obsessed with theater.
I'm obsessed with those older songs, you know, just the
way that they're written. I'm a believer and understanding where
(01:54):
you come from, understanding what the rules are so you
can break them, you know. So and you know that
are breaking them. And it's a choice and not just
by accident. The songwriters who I am in love with,
you know. One of them was Stephen Sondheim from the
Theater and you know, I was sort of miffed that
they didn't cast black people in those shows. But I
(02:14):
still love the music, you know, and so I had
this idea, this crazy idea to like do different arrangements
of the music, you know, make them black, black them up. Um,
and Susie Deeds, who's a theater producer, um, she sort
(02:34):
of produced the show and we actually put it up
and it was Stephen Sondheim's music done in like R
and B and soul and gospel and rapping hip hop styles,
and so we did that. It was a great success.
And Raprise Theater company which she ran for a while,
was out here and they were doing a Richard Rogers
season and she said, oh, you should, you should do
(02:57):
the same treatment to Richard Roger's music that you did
with like it could be a thing. And they were
doing a concert and they said, just do a concert
of it, like see what happens. And so Ren Brown
at the Nate Holden Theater you know in the Black
area of town, hosted it for us, and it was
a great success. So fast forward. That was back in
two thousand nine. Fast forward, you know my patrons of
(03:22):
the art, Susie Diets and Letty Be or her husband
who's in the music business now. He yes, so he
got a deal on Sony and he said, oh, I
want to sign you and you should make a record
and you should do that Brigard Rogers thing. And that's
how it happened. And that's sort of that. That was
the impulse and we also learned to that when people
(03:47):
know the song, the deconstruction of the arrangement becomes that
much more amazing to them because they know where it
came from. And so I think with Richard Rogers music,
it's been great because, um, you know, that was the
pop music of its day. You know, that was the
Golden Age pop music. And everybody on the planet knows
(04:08):
a Richard Roger song. Even if you don't know that,
you know why, you know, And so you know, wash
that Man right out of My Hair was a shampoo commercial.
You know, everybody knows my funny Valentine. At least. It's
like certain kinds of music are just in part of
your d N. Yeah, and so the music being in
our d N I has allowed for the project to
(04:31):
resonate I think um in a really great way. But
You've always kind of made this connection between Broadway and
soul music, and I'm wondering, why does Broadway music and
soul music works so well together for you? I think
it is my journey to it. I grew up singing
(04:54):
in the church, uh, singing gospel music, singing UM, R
and B and soul music, and you know, the childhood
wasn't so lovely. I was looking for stuff to sort
of just like occupy my time, get me out, like
you know what was it? And in the sixth grade
(05:14):
I was introduced to theater. Being on stage in a
theatrical production and going to a Pentecostal church are kind
of the same thing. Pentecostal church service on Sunday morning
is theater of the highest order. So it just worked
for me for whatever reason, it worked. But I found
(05:37):
inside of the infrastructure of theater and commercial theater that
the two worlds were very often opposite um and didn't
really come together. And I just didn't feel like that
was right. I didn't feel like it was okay because
here I am standing here. You know, I am this
person from this world who loves all of this stuff,
(06:00):
and so why can't they come together? Um. I didn't
know that it was a life's mission at the time,
but now, all these years later, it's like I've been
doing it since then. You know, theater saved my life.
You know, it's saved my life. It plucked me out
of the darkness. You know, it plucked me out of
(06:22):
what could have been my demise. It could have destroyed me.
You know, I could have been a statistic. I was
set up to be a statistic when you look at
it on paper. I was supposed to be a statistic
and it was theater that saved that. So in order
(06:43):
to honor that for myself, there's never any going away
from it. And you mentioned this, you know a little bit,
that Richard Rodgers and his music was pop music of
the day. Is it important for you to remind people
that Broadway music isn't just something that a started with
(07:08):
the Lion King, by the way, no disrespect to the
Lion King, um that there is a long history and
that there was a time where this was the pre
eminent music in this country. Absolutely, it was the pop music.
Everybody knew it. And I just feel like, I mean,
recently it's opened up, it's cracked open. But when I
(07:31):
started in the business, you know, back in the eighties,
it was like, you know, to say that you were
a theater artist was the kiss of death because in
the record business, you know, I had a deal, I
had a record deal in the nineties on A and
M Records, and I was instructed to not talk about
the three Broadway shows that I was at, you know,
(07:51):
there would rather I just come out of nowhere. It
was very difficult, and and and I feel like, you know,
we've always been here. I know Hamilton's has you know,
smashed through the glass ceiling, but the rest of us
have actually been here working in the trenches for the
last thirty years. And that's no disrespect to Hamilton's. You know,
it's like it's but but we've been doing it. I've
(08:13):
been standing here doing it. We've been standing here doing it.
Many of us have been standing here doing it for decades.
So I'm thrilled that now people are listening in a
different way. I also think it's the Internet, you know.
I also think it's really interesting because the Internet has
(08:35):
brought all of the theater geeks together and swirled them up,
and now it's popular again because there are just as
many of us as there are in every other genre
and connect and it wasn't available before you Eat. You know,
with this project, you take on a little bit of
a different role in that you know that it's Billy
(08:56):
Porter Presents. You are the producer and the curator of this.
You're not necessarily on every track. Why take that on?
Why not just do Billy Porter sings the soul of
Richard Rodgers and make it your project. Well, first of all,
I have the most talented friends on the planet, and
I love working with talent. I love working with my friends.
(09:18):
I've always been that person. I've always done that, so
it sort of seems second nature to me to do
something like this. But I also, you know, in terms
of my space, in my place in the industry and
in the business and in the world as as a
creative person, I began to understand a number of years
(09:40):
ago that the ideas that I have, the vision that
I have, everybody doesn't have that, you know, because I'm
surrounded with so many talented people in my life. You
just sort of assumed that everybody, everybody has a talenty.
Everybody I know has a town comment. That's not normal,
(10:01):
it's not common. And I have ideas in my head
and in my brain, and I never you know, I'm
the I always say, I'm the last of a generation
of people who were taught to be brilliant interpreters of
other people's material as an actor, as a you know,
like you went to drama school and you learned how
(10:21):
to do the classics and the Shakespeare and the check
off and the Dada and you learned how to sing
the classics Rogers and heart Rogers happen. You're like you
if if the idea of creating it for yourself wasn't
already instinctively and you it wasn't something that people sort
of encourage. The Internet has encouraged the whole generation of
(10:42):
do it yourself first, for better or for worse. Uh,
sometimes you should and sometimes you shouldn't. But with that said,
you know, for me, the way that I entered the business,
the way that I entered the theater industry, I had
a very special, old, specific kind of voice. When I
(11:03):
started in the business and I got to New York,
I played that trump card. You know, it was a
ha ha ha gospel, like blow the roof off the
joint boys, and you know, I got work and I
got work. But after a number of years, I realized
it was pigeonholing me into um a space that I
felt uncomfortable. You know. It was like, you want me
(11:24):
to come and stop your show, but when it's time
to tell my story, you're not interested. And so for me,
I had to make the decision that that was no
longer okay. And when I made that decision and started
demanding a different kind of um respect from the people
(11:45):
who could give you work. The work dried up and
I was left with no work. And it was the
best thing that could have happened to me because it
made me go deeper, and it made me ask different
questions of myself and challenge myself in different ways and
(12:06):
become the person who standing before you. Well, and you
said something fascinating about this, and I'm gonna quote you
because I love this you've talked about, and this is
the quote owning the leader in me? Tell me what
that means. What is owning the leader means. It's interesting
because I've always felt like a leader. But you know,
(12:31):
there was this part of me coming from the church,
the idea of you can't be braggadocious. You know, it's
a gift, and so therefore you need to be humble. Um.
And that's all good, but the humility of it, I
think for me, it reached the ceiling and I had
(12:54):
to go, you know what, I actually know what I'm doing,
and I actually need to be out in the front
doing that. So I'm gonna honor that, I'm gonna own that.
I'm going to have faith in that I'm gonna step
out on faith and I'm gonna do it. Tell me
about choosing the material, tell me about the repertoire, because
(13:14):
I'm wondering. Was it a case of, Okay, I got
the repertoire, now I'm gonna find the artists, or is
it more a case of I got these artists? What's right? Well,
it was it was both. When we did the concert,
the idea and the concept was classic to the contemporary
Broadway and soul, which is my brand. You know. We
(13:39):
did a lot of arrangements, starting from jazz and all
the way up to like hip hop and wrapping gospel
and all of that. And when we were putting this
album together, I went back and started listening to the concert,
and I thought, yeah, I need one thing. And the
thing that I need, and the thing that hasn't been
in the market before, is to take this material and
(14:02):
do these R and B soul gospel treatment contemporary gospel
treatments of them, because that hasn't been done. So that
became the focus. So I knew that. So I knew
whatever songs we choose from this group of songs that
we already have arrangements for, we're gonna have to flip
the arrangements a bit and make them all sonically sound
(14:24):
the same, and I want them to sound urban and
contemporary and relevant and present today. So we knew that.
Then the artists sort of fell into place. They've kind
of found themselves. It's like, let us see, uh, you know,
she was in the concert in two thousand and nine,
so I said, well, what do you want to do?
(14:45):
Of the four songs that she sang, which one would
you want? Bewitched? Okay, you got that, so you know this,
So that sort of happened like that. Brandon, Victor Dixon
and Josh Henry, who I was in shuffle along with
last season. You know, they have this really interesting, fun
(15:06):
kind of rivalry in the business where they're always up
at the same parts. They're always playing the same parts.
They're both playing Aaron Burr right now and separate companies
of Hamilton's. And then there's this going back to some time.
There's this song and into the Wood called Agony, where
the prince is sort of vie for the affection of
a person. I thought, oh, wouldn't it be interesting to
(15:26):
do like an urban version of that sense of with
the Richard Rogers song, which is why it goes into
that like R and B you know, thing off thing
at the end, you know, because they're vying for each
other's love. Cynthia Rivo, It's like she has to I
has to say that, and I have to and I
(15:47):
have to stop you there because um. You know, I
saw an interview with her speaking specifically about you and
this project and this this has to be remarkable. And
I don't know if she said this to you, but
she said this interview. I trust Billy implicitly. I trust him,
you know, with the song choice. I trust him with
you know, kind of my artistic role in this. What
(16:11):
does that kind of trust from a fellow artist mean
to you? You know, I'm only now beginning to be
able to take it in. Like I said before, it's
like I'm such a worker and I have blinders on
all the time, and so I don't always feel it.
But this project has helped me to feel that, you know,
(16:31):
working with India as well, it's like I've met India. Um. India,
I re um who came to see Shuffle Along. She
sort of came backstage looking for me. You know. She
has been a healer her music has healed me, has
healed my soul for decades, you know. So to have
(16:52):
her standing in front of me, I was like, okay,
well we need to work together. What show number? And
I had no idea. This is going back to that
idea of how did the songs come together. I had
no idea that she was gonna be on this record,
and then the election happened. Literally the day after the
(17:15):
election happened, I thought carefully taught India ire and I
picked up the phone and called her. And it was
interesting to me because speaking of how does it feel?
I brought her into the studio with every intention that
it was going to be a solo. We worked on
the arrangement, we sent it to her, everything was cool.
(17:35):
I walked into the studio, I said, okay, so what
you know, how do you like to work? Do you
like to run it all the way down? Do you
like to line my line? Do you like phrase my phrase?
And she said, I thought I was singing this with you.
That's it the way I'm and I and it just
took my breath away because I didn't it was never
even a like. I wanted the space for her to
(17:57):
be able to speak, and she made it a duet,
and that's astonishing. There were things that producers can do
in the course of making records. They can shape the sound,
they can shape songs, they can be the psychologist for
for for the artists. And I'm wondering, in the process
(18:18):
of doing this with so many different artists, did you
play that role? Were you the sounding board in terms
of how should we approach this? Absolutely? Absolutely, you know,
I always love speaking to the artist and hearing what
it is that's in their heart, you know, the specificity
of a person's voice, of a person's style. I've always
(18:42):
been able to understand what that is, and I only
only only want to make sure that we're lifting the
artist up to be the best version of themselves that
they can be. That's what a producer does, that's what
a creative leader does us. And it's about releasing my
(19:03):
own ego. It's not about me. I understand that, you know,
a long time ago. You know, it's the transition of intention,
you know, going from the naive idea that superstardom was
what I wanted, you know, because superstardom would get me out,
you know, superstardom would make my mommy love me even
(19:26):
though I was gay, you know, like superstardom would solve
all of those problems that I thought I had. And
I realized it's not about that at all. I was
watching Oprah one day as I am want to do
UM and she was on there with with my Angelou
and Elanna Van Sant, and they were talking about um,
(19:47):
you know, I I I gotta get my spiritual stuff.
And they were talking about service, you know, like intention
and service, whatever it is that you do for a
living service, Like what does that mean? And so I
began to ask myself that question, how can I be
of service in an industry that um, how can I
(20:09):
be of service to something other than my own ego
and my own bank account, in an industry that is
inherently narcissistic? And that journey began. And when that intention changed,
my life completely turned around. And now everything I do.
You know, there's some connection. It's like Kinky Boots never
(20:32):
would have happened. Kinky Boots is service. You know, you
go to see that show. That's of service. All those
little gay boys who don't feel like they have a place.
They stopped me on the street every day. You saved
my life. You changed my life. I was somewhere the
other day that sixteen year old boy was like, can
(20:53):
I give you hug? You know, it's like that is
more important to me than any accolade or you know,
check You've got um Leslie on him jrs on on
this record, And I was interested to learn he was
a student of yours. Yes he was, and Petina Miller
as well. And I'm wondering, what did you see in
(21:15):
him as a student? I saw a person who was individual,
just like I was individual, who was special just like
I was special, and was still made to believe that
who they were wouldn't work because nobody had seen it before.
(21:39):
And it's like, we have to understand that just because
it hasn't been seen before doesn't mean that it's not valid.
So for me, it was about helping these younger people
hold on to what specifically makes them them. You know,
it's like the sound of the voice. You know, that's
(22:01):
not a sound that's usually associated with theater. You know,
for me, I was put in his life to say
keep that sound, you don't change that sound. You you've
called him I think a modern day Kruoner. Yes he is.
He is in the sense that you know, like a
nack king cole. You know something I can never do.
Like I listen to him and I'm like, yeah, I
(22:22):
can't do that. That's not what I do. I'm a screamer.
But you know, it's about us all owning who we
are and loving that and not letting anybody take that away.
You also have and I believe she might be here tonight.
Um you've got let us see, yes, is she here?
(22:43):
You here? I heard something. It's a terrific track, and
you've talked about her in particular. Please don't take this
the wrong way that this is his quote, raw but focused.
You know, listen, I don't like floppy singing. I don't
(23:07):
like off pitch singing. I don't like it being blamed
on being raw. It's raw emotions. So it's okay that
you ain't on pitch. I'm not that person. I don't
like that, you know, because I believe that you can
be raw and still be on pitch. That's what I'm
talking about. I believe that you can be raw and
(23:27):
not fall out of your riffs. I believe you can
do that. That's what she is. You know, That's what
I meant by that. You know, because we get into
this space in this world where we give people passes
for just not being good. It's not good singing, huh.
You know. It's like you get in a line and
(23:49):
you win an award, you win a reality television contest,
and you don't have any craft. You can't sustain it,
you know. I want to talk ship on theater people.
I do it eight times a week and Hills eight
times a week. That's what I believe in. Now, that's
(24:10):
my thing, you know, And that's what I meant when
I said that about it. I mean, it's a terrific track.
By the way she does the song bewitched, Yes, bothered
and bewildered. Yes. And there's a young man on the
track who's actually here with us as well. It's like
your park yes, And I'm wondering how were you introduced? Okay,
So I have to tell the story about putting the
(24:33):
album together. So my writing partner, musical director for fourteen years,
James sam Plainer, who's sitting over there. So we originally
did the concert back in two thousand and nine, the
arrangement together. So when we started working on this record
and I was like, well, I wanted to be more
(24:54):
hip hop orient, you know, like I want to bring
like an edgier side, and and I looked at the
both of us and I was like, okay, we can
take it to a certain level, but like we need
something else. We need like a ringer. And this guy
who I had known back in the nineties when I
had my first deal hip hop R and B soul
(25:16):
rap producer, popped into my head. It's just it's like
it's divine when it happens like that. I popped into
my head. Hadn't spoken to him in ten years. And
I looked on my phone and they were like seventeen numbers,
and I like, did this and just pressed one and
he picked up the phone. And that's Michael sand Loofer
who's sitting over there. So the trifecta of us sort
(25:42):
of is what brought this album together. And zire Park
he's he's his artist. He produces people, so he's his artists.
And we were, you know, I was trying to get
some of the Hamiltonians in there the rap with me,
but you know, they got TV shows and movie gigs
and ship and stop returning my telephone calls. So I said, well,
I'm not gonna be held hostage. I got some other
(26:04):
bitches who I can't pull out. It's all right, we
all got a gig. We got some other rappers. But
he brings in particular energy that I think is yeah,
perfect for this. Yeah, it's it's you know, to spit
(26:26):
the rhymes as they call it. Am I saying, I'm right,
you know, because I've missed the whole rap thing. Um,
you know, it was another it was yet another group
of people who didn't like me, you know, kill the
police and kill the faggots. So I'm not spending money
(26:46):
on that. I gotta save myself. So I missed a
movement as a result of that. And I feel jipped,
you know, because I meet people like Zaire and I
go Wow, It's the artistry in it, the word smith,
this craft of it is just mind blowing. It's mind
blowing to me. And I'm glad now that we live
(27:09):
in a different space, you know, in the world where
I can now you know, dive into that, go back
and dive into the stuff that wasn't obliterating me as
a human being, you know what I mean. I'm really
excited about that. And that's what Zaire brings. And he's
so young and spry. You know, I feel like Grandpap.
(27:38):
You know, the world changed while you were making this record,
literally and the election happened, and I'm wondering if the
record changed for you in the process of the world
happening around it. I'm gonna tell you how the record changed.
It happened. And you know, I'm a really political person.
(28:02):
I've always been political, you know, being black and being gay,
and you know, I came out during the during the
Eighth Crisis. We had to go directly to the front
lines to fight for our lives. There was nothing else
that you could do. I had no luxury of being
on anybody's down low. We had to fight for our lives.
So that was what it was. Um So with that,
(28:27):
it was always political, you know, like analvice. We know
what analvice is. You know. We know that the Bond
Trapp family sings that as the Nazis are trying to
come in and occupy blah blah blah. You know, so
that was there, carefully taught, was not on the record.
That literally happened the day after. And then wash that man,
(28:48):
you know, wash that man right out of my hair.
Was the original idea was to have Fantasia and then
the election happened and Toddrick Hall have been cast as
Lola and Kinky Boots, and I thought, Miss Lola is
exactly the target for this administration metaphorically, that's the target.
(29:13):
That's one of the targets, and we have to speak
to them directly from that space. That's where watched that
man came from, and you know, Richard Rodgers was speaking
about issues that are still relevant today. Yeah, and that
was one of my things is that you know, they
were pushing the envelope and they were having the conversations
(29:35):
that were difficult to have. And you know, we live
in this this shut up and sang environment because the
idea is to squash critical thought, you know, and make
people followers. And we as creative people have always been
the ones who've been able to speak truth to power creatively.
We've always been the ones who've been able to reach
across the aisle when our politicians choose not to or
(29:59):
can't or what ever the situation is. And so that service,
you know, like that makes me feel like getting up
in the morning and I'm contributing to the world, you
know what I mean, and that so so yeah, it
literally changed the whole tone of the album and how
(30:25):
I present it. Actually, really one of the great things
I read that you said about this record, and it
may have come kind of through the process of getting
through the election, is you wanted to show the world
how fierce Broadway is. Yeah, yeah, it's you know, there's
been this idea for years that Broadways corny. You know
(30:45):
that Broadway can't hold up to traditional pop. We don't
sing that way, y'all can't thing like that, y'all can't,
you know, And it's not true, as you can see
on this record. It's not true. Um. And and you
chose Adalweis to close the record. Why did you want
to sing that song? It's a we. We did a
(31:05):
contemporary gospel arrangement of it. And you know, while the
doctrines of the church religion, which is man made, spirituality
is divine, you know, I had to leave that space too.
But what I haven't left is the music. Separating the
(31:30):
messenger from the ministry is something that I've been able
to do and have had to do with gospel music
because at my core that's what fuels me. So while
it's not a traditional gospel song, it's a contemporary gospel
take on that song, and I knew that that was
(31:51):
what I had to do on the record. I had
to make that statement on the record. So we've got
time for a couple of questions from the house here,
So do we have a question or two? Yes, sir,
right here. This past weekend was the final eighth Project
Los Angeles Stage Benefits. I heard I know that you
participated in the past. I was wondering how you got
(32:12):
involved and if you have any interesting anecdotes. I do
have an interesting antidote. The first one that I did
was probably nineteen on I sang a song time song
and Peter Matt's was still alive. Peter matt came over
(32:33):
to my apartment. I had a piano in my apartment,
and we sat down and did an arrangement of what
can you Lose and not a day goes by. I
don't talk about that very often, but Peter Matt's was
in my house and we did an arrangement together, and
I was twenty two years old in the back way
(32:57):
in the back. First of all, I love you, Thank
you Later, right, I'm saying, yes, that's the whole point.
You see this outfit, you think I walked down the
street in this outfit every day. I got an outfit
for you bitches, because they need to hear you. And
(33:19):
my sustity is what would you give me a singer
who's what would you tell them? In terms of trying
to find you they are the only thing that you
can be is the best version of yourself. You know,
It's like I lived it. People tried to make me
(33:39):
something else because who I am and what I've represent
made them uncomfortable. So the minute you stopped caring about that,
you find your voice. The minute you stopped caring about
other people's successes, you know, other people's successes are not
your face. Earlier, you're in a race and you turned
(34:03):
around to look at where the other people are, and
you fall and everybody passes you up. Stay the course,
mind your business, do you the end, no matter how
long it takes, you know what I mean. It's like
it took way longer that I ever thought it was
(34:25):
gonna take. Trust me, you know. And last question, because
it ties right in. You've talked about your career in
terms of endurance, and and you know you said the
race is not given to the swift nor the strong,
but to the one who endures in the end to
the end, to the end. You know, I go back
(34:45):
to Bonnie Ray, you know, I remember her winning for
I Can't Make You Love Me and that album that's
just kind of bullet nick of time that blew up.
And I wasn't even really in it in it at
the time time, you know, but I remember sitting watching
and going, wait, something just happened. That's rare. Like this
(35:07):
woman is old. She's not supposed to be doing this right,
you know what I mean, Like life was supposed to
have had passed her by at this point. You know,
I remember olympiad Caccus, you know, talking about that, you know,
when she was like, I'm fifty something years old. I
got an oscar. And that's what I mean about intention changing.
(35:32):
You want to be a star, that's bullshit. That's some
young naive bullshit. You want to be an artist, You
want to be an artist who has something to say.
Then you're never leaving, you're never stopping, you know, because
it's not about the ego. It's about what's in here,
and it's about what you were called to do. I
(35:54):
have been called to do this on this earth, in
this moment right now. So whether people are listening or not,
George Steve Wolf, one of my mentors, said, you gotta
you know, you can't wait for anybody to give you
permission to practice your art. If you're an artist, you're
gonna be doing it all the time, whether people are
listening or not. Well, we could not be more pleased
(36:24):
to have had the chance to listen to you, not
only tonight, but in your career to this point and
this album, which is fantastic. Thank you, so, first of all,
thank you for taking the time. Thank you for having
me a chance. How about the Grammy Museum, y'all. I'm thinking, y'all, shit,
(36:46):
get it up for Billy Porter. It isn't often that
you hear an artist talk about his transition of intention
and turning toward the idea of service in his career,
(37:07):
and how keeping that sense of service to others is
what ultimately changed his life and career. I would encourage
you to seek out some Billy Porter music or check
out the soundtrack to Kinky Boots, and you'll get a
great sense of this remarkable artist. So that's your required
listening for today, and let's keep the conversation going We're
(37:33):
on all the social platforms at Grammy Museum. All the
info about our activities are exhibits and our programs is
at our website grammy museum dot org. As always, props
to the team that makes required listening happen every week,
Jason James, Justin, Joseph Kelly Weisman, Lynn Sheridan, Miranda Moore,
Jim Cannella, Jason Hope, Chandler May's, Nick Stump, Lenn Brown,
(37:57):
and everyone at How Stuff Works. Until next time, I'm
Scott Goldman, h
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