September 26, 2018 • 33 mins
GRAMMY nominee and Rock and Roll Hall of Fame member Jeff Lynne stops by the GRAMMY Museum to chat with Required Listening host Scott Goldman about his musical heroes Del Shannon and Roy Orbison, the current iteration of ELO, and what it feels like to see multiple generations of fans enjoying his music around the world.
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to Required Listening. I'm your host, Scott Goldman, Artistic
director of the Grammy Museum. Each week in the Clive
Davis Theater, I've got the opportunity to speak to artists
from across the musical spectrum about their careers, their struggles,
their inspiration, and their creative process. Now I am a
very lucky guy, as are the two hundred people that
(00:22):
get to join me at the Grammy Museum. But now
with Required Listening, I'm thrilled to share these remarkable interviews
with you. On today's episode, my conversation with Rock and
Roll Hall of Fame member Jeff Lynn. With a career
that extends back to the nineteen sixties, his resume is
(00:44):
truly astounding. Founding member of Electric Light Orchestra, founding member
of The Traveling Wilberries, multi platinum and Grammy winning producer,
Jeff Lynn is one of the most successful artists and
producers in modern music. Yet with all that success us
he has to be the most humble superstar I've ever encountered.
(01:04):
We got together following a screening of the E l
O concert film Wembley or Bust. I think you'll hear
how his affable and self deprecating persona belies his gifts
as a supremely talented songwriter and producer, but when you
hear him talk about his reverence for his musical heroes
Del Shannon and Roy Orbison, you begin to understand the
(01:26):
depth of his commitment to music and what that commitment
means to him personally. We'll also discuss the current iteration
of E. L. O Playing sold out shows around the
world and what it feels like to see multiple generations
of fans enjoying his music. So let's go to the
Clive Davis Theater and listen to my conversation with Jeff Lay.
(01:51):
Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome the soul producer and songwriter
of Yellow Rock and Roll Hall of Fame member Jeff
Lynn Gonna. Thank you, Scot Hello, hell, I want you
(02:12):
to want you. Hey there, we are, thank you very much,
thanks for coming, by the way, it's a it's a
great pleasure to have you all year. It's great to
have you here. I know I thought that was Robert No.
I didn't really, I've been here before, um, but I
just was. It was just so nice to hear it
sounding good in when when you see it what what
(02:34):
do you think? Oh, well, I think what a load
of work that was. It really was, because you know,
it's like it's the first time I've ever played for
two hours for a start, and that is a lung
spok for me, because I usually give you about one
and a half hours. I got enough, so it's gonna
clap no more. But I just carried on because I
(02:58):
knew it was one and own the time. We've never
playing a giant place like that and film in a once,
so we needed the film of all those songs, which
is twenty three by the way, Well don't for sitting
through it all. Yeah, there you go. But Mike, I
mean it's it's an amazing catalog of songs. It's just
(03:19):
thank you, thank you all, thank you. And by and
by the way, how how did you How long did
it take to assemble that band? That was quite that's
quite a band. It's a wonderful band. And I love him.
I love him to be. It's every one of them.
I think they're great guys. This one guy missing out
(03:40):
of the band at the moment, and that's which your challenge, Tandy. Yeah,
it wasn't well, but he will be well for the
next two when we're coming back to America. Well that's great. Yeah,
and we'd love to hear that there's the next tour, yeah,
which will be that's pretty exciting. Yeah, I know, it's
absolutely amazing. I thought i'd pack that in, but obviously
I haven't. Well, and this all and this all kind
(04:03):
of started this, this um revitalization resurgence of Yellow two
thousand fourteen in Hyde Park. Yes, what what inspired that show? Well,
the thing is, I've done a little documentary which is cool, mr,
Mr this guy, which you came in and we showed
it here, we showed it here. Yeah, and that's what
(04:25):
started it. And then suddenly the baby see gone on
and said, how'd you like to play a concert in
Hyde Park? You know, top of the bill which was
fifty people, And I thought, well, nah, you know, I thought, yes,
of course I'd love to, and and that's how that happened,
(04:45):
and it was that was a marvelous thing because I
was so worried about that because that was the first
big proper show for many many years, you know, well
thirty years. But don't mention it on the resume. Um,
it's actually it's it's very strange to be doing this
film here now again, because when I looked at it,
(05:07):
I thought the group was totally brilliant and I love
them all, I really do fantastic. Would you concerned in
in high Park that that that maybe the fans wouldn't
be there? Was was Was there a nervousness about that? Yes?
I thought there'd been nobody there, and I kept saying
to my manager Craig, um, you know what if there's
(05:32):
nobody left when we get on, you know, because we
last on a big, long day full of music, you know,
like probably I don't know, eight hours of it or something,
and we're on last. So by the time I get
dark and I thought, oh gotta he was somebody still here.
And I climbed up these ladders to the stage and
it was packed to the you know, the whole part
(05:53):
was packed people. So I went, well, maybe they do
like it, this music, I feel, yeah, you know, it's
very art. And now when you're a songwriter of all
the songs, you know, it's it's quite difficult to know
who likes what and and how it goes. But most
people tell me that they like it very much, so
(06:15):
that that's always a great thing, and it keeps me going,
and I'm writing a new album at the moment even
better and I'm seven, So thank you, and I hope
you'll like it when you hit it a better way
to see in the In the early days, in the
very early days of l O, how did you describe
(06:37):
the band if somebody asked you, yeah, yeah, you're in
you're in this band? What what do they do? What?
Early do you want? Go ahead? Well, very early it
was like it was like a shambles, really, people falling
over and stuff and and wires all wrapping around people's
necks and marching spikes throwing him into people's chests. It
(06:59):
was a horrible experience. I hated that first grip. And
I have to ask you, wellthough I think I know
the answer, how did how did those early shows sound?
Because there was no Honestly, there's a reason why. It
wasn't anything to do with the guys or the people
who were playing it. It was because there was no
(07:21):
technology in nineteen two to mike upboard to amplify violins
and cellos and stuff like that. There just weren't anything.
And suddenly this pickup came out that strapped onto the
violin itself, onto the bridge and onto the cello, and
suddenly you could hear them instead of this feedback what
we used to get all the time, It's like here
(07:42):
we go one on five, right over you a great
you think, lovely, thank you. Once the pickups came along,
it became a lot of fun and you could actually
hear the people play. And then we went hanging, which
was worse than oh whatever playing. I'm kidding, Sorry everybody,
(08:05):
I'm just kidding. I read you've talked about Evil Woman
as being a song where you you kind of learned,
You learned about songwriting and production writing that song, recording
that song. Well, what I did learn was that I
could actually write a song in six minutes. And I
(08:27):
didn't know I could do that before. I've never tried
because I sent the rest of the group out because
I was one short on the face the music face
the music album, Yeah thank you, I was something like that.
But now I was one. I really I thought I
(08:48):
hadn't got I haven't got a proper hit single on
here you know yet. I'm gonna make one up now.
So you go up in you know, ground the shops
or whatever in Germany. This is in Munich, and they
came back and luckily this song within six minutes and
it was like Evil Woman. So I was sure that
will do, and we made the record like that afternoon,
(09:12):
and a few other doubs later, you know, another session
put some put the strings on and all that, and
then they put the vocals on, and uh, it was
shocking to me because that I did it in six minutes,
the actual main theme and everything was done done. Ye
has that happened? Since? No wish it would. Let well,
(09:36):
we're glad it happened that time, no doubt. Who growing up,
who are your songwriting heroes? Who were yourr Who'd you
listen to and think that that's what I want to do? Well,
basically it was. It was Roy Orbison and Del Shannon
and the early Beatles, and that's what I used to
(09:57):
love most of all. I think looking at it now,
Royalson was probably the greatest talent that I ever heard
of you ever. Even now I listened to some of
the stuff. I always listen to his stuff. I can,
like binge listen to Royal obviously for like days on
end and just go, oh did you hear that bit?
Then you know it's just magnificent. It's just beautiful, beyond
(10:20):
believe Dell I loved from the first record I ever
loved was run Away and my dad actually splashed out
for the ticket because six and six months, which is
six shillings and six months in old money, which is
now like about threatened saft me in old money. No,
(10:40):
I don't know what I did, whatever it is it was.
You know, it's like cheap nowadays, but it was really
expensive in those days. I went to see Del live
and it just blew my mind because it was just
so fantastic and handsome and lovely mohairs suit and he
was voice was like what right? It was in this
(11:00):
tiny place called Birmingham Town Hall which held people. But
but speaking of Del Shannon and Roy Orbison, to a
certain degree there their music was it was almost plaintive.
It was they were both plaintive. And that's why I
loved him so much, because that's what I think, that's
what comes over in my music a little bit, that
(11:23):
the sort of painful part of stuff, you know, like
you know where she gone or whatever. Because I listened
to that, and then I listened to Can't Get It
out of my head, and it's there's there's there's the
same thing going on there, but there's a little bit
of loneliness, and you know, it's just what you can
write about. I can't write usually write jolly songs. Nan again,
(11:48):
I've come up with one, but they're usually like a
bit sort of grim, like there's something terrible happened in
the second. The other the thing I found fascinating is
um so in the you know, in the seventies disco
was in its in its glory um and and you
have you have praised disco, you have come to praise.
(12:12):
I love disco. I love it. I always have loved
it ever since I heard that first bang bang bang
bang and I realized, wow, you just keep the bangs
and then just fill the olds in with someone else
and it worked. I mean, Shane Little Love is the
perfect example right there. Yeah. Yeah, I'm less straight in London.
(12:35):
I really enjoyed doing disco, but you found the places
to fill in in in disco that that kind of
brought it over to rock audiences. Yeah, I think it did,
and which is very lucky in a way. But I
just enjoyed that beat and I just loved just that
strictness of it. So I could you can bend it
(12:55):
either side of it, you know, but you know it
just gives you that freedom to to go out on
a limb with that steady beat underneath. That's my excuse anyway.
And and in the you know, by by the time
in the in the later seventies, you guys are you
guys are playing big buildings. You're you're you're around this
is this is one of the bigger tours around. And
(13:16):
you've got that giant spaceship thing. Whatever happened to that,
I believe it got scrapped in the shipyard in East
Anglia because you know, it was like the biggest thing ever.
And what you're gonna do with it when you're fed
up with it? Well, if you had hung onto it,
we could have done an exhibit here around you. Now
you couldn't. You'd have to be build a bigger building.
(13:40):
We're working on that. Actually it was. It's kind of funny. Um,
did it ever malfunction? Did the thing ever go wrong?
Always like it did, Like it would all be underneath
it to start with. And we'll all be waiting there,
you know, anticipating this lift that's going to go up.
We stand on our lift, We have our own lift
(14:02):
each and some of them don't move, they just stay
there like dead weight. And so if it's your one
that's doing that, you jump on one that's going on
going on quick as you can. And then and then
one night, maybe two nights, that somebody the lift has
(14:22):
gone up to as far as the stage floor and
they got their read sticking out baskets and they got
really mad at they're really angry about it. Was hilarious,
but you know, and we're all going off too bad
for you now, I refuse to remember who you want.
(14:50):
So I want to ask you about the song Don't
Don't bring me down, because first song without strings, and
I'm wondering, did did did the novelty of the strings
kind of we're off? I used to it started out
where like, oh, it's string day to day. So we've
got the orchestra and for like two sessions of three
(15:11):
hours each, which used to go I used to go fantastic. Finally,
now he's getting beautiful, and and then like a few
albums later, like two or three albums later, it's like
a string day to day. I don't want any more
bleeding strings on anything, you know, I'm fed up with
(15:33):
them there, but you don't want to deal with those guys.
But well, because they were all unionized and they would
not play past a minute past what they were playing.
And you know, even if at the end of a
song they'll they'll just stop playing and put the stuff away,
and there's one minute to go on the sung and
they go, oh, hang on if you want us to
(15:53):
play the other minute, and you've got to play us
for another session. So it wasn't very pleasant at all.
It was just nasty. He didn't feel nice with him
because you felt, I don't want to do this, really,
but I'll have to pay another session for the for
like thirty musicians just to play one minute. So they
weren't very nice. I'm talking about forty odd years ago.
(16:16):
They're not like that now, I'm sure because the strength
since are really good now. So it's one guy in
the corner with a sin. Well, we've got we've got
three real strings in our group of course as well. Yes, yes, um,
the the film clearly shows. And one of the great
(16:41):
things about the film, besides the fact that it's shot
so well and it just looks great and sounds great,
but the audience, multiple generations, young folks who clearly and
don't take this the wrong way. We're not boring. I
(17:02):
have to leave now. Um, we're not born when your
first hit came out, and yet they are singing every
word because I've been fools feted by the which I love,
because how else you're going to spread it to everybody,
you know? And when they when you see him on
the film and the kids singing and that happens to
(17:24):
be singing it. Yes, it just makes you feel really good,
you know, because when you're songwriter, that's what you want
to do. You're trying to connect with as many people
as possible to try and have them enjoy that moment,
you know. And if they do, it's wonderful. If they don't,
then hard luck me. And and we have to talk
(17:45):
about the physical place Wembley because that that that really
means something people in the United States may not may
not be as aware, but Wembley Stadium is it's it's
the Yankee Stadium. It is of the UK. It's an
icon't you know. And that is like a real big
one because of the football, you know, the soccer in England.
(18:07):
That's where they play all the very important games. And
so from from a kid growing up. Wembley is like
the home of like, oh, your favorite fantasies and anything,
you know, football wise and music wise, because they've been
having concerts there for many many years as well. And
did you go see shows they are? By any chance?
(18:29):
I actually played in one, you know, way down the
list of like a couple of acts down. So I
just did a couple of numbers on There never been
you know, the group that went on to be top
of the bill. Yeah, except all that film what you
just saw, So that was that it turned out pretty well.
(18:51):
Um when when when you dissolved yell o in in
or so did you play to go into production? Did
you plan? Oh? Absolutely you did. I didn't want to
play anymore with the group as it was. Um, it
just wasn't. I wasn't enjoying myself in his And then
(19:14):
when George Harrison asked me if I would like to
work on him, work with him, not not work on
him work that was later cheeky thing. Now work with
him on his album on a new album. He wanted
to make. Dave Edmonds tome with that at dinner one
(19:37):
night and he said, oh, by the way, George asked
me if you if you'd like to work on him,
work with him on his new album. And I said
you kidding? Really? And I said that's good and he
said yep. And he's asked me to take you around
to his house tomorrow and I go, okay, then let's
(19:59):
do it it round in Dave's car and he dropped
me off there. I went in to George's ass, which
is like this giant palace, you know, beautiful, unbelievable thing.
I was frightened to go in really because I wasn't
Winston Churchill or something. I didn't know how to handle it.
But anyway, so I went in there and Olivia said, oh,
(20:23):
he's down by the lake. He's going to give you
a boat ride. And I thought, great, that would be good. Anyway,
I went down to the lake and then he was
the real George there. He was just standing there going, hey,
and we're sitting on a boat ride, but we're going
into some tunnels. So what don't put your hands outside
the boat, just leave your hands inside and grip with
(20:50):
your bum. So that's what happened. You have to learn
how to grip with your boy. That's something I learnt
before I ever started recording things. You learned from a Beatle.
It's fantastic. From the best, only from the best, only
(21:12):
from the best. But speaking of producing, I read a
quote of yours where you said it wasn't it wasn't
like you imagined. How how how so how how did how?
How did producing turn out for you? What? What? Why
wasn't it like you imagined it would be? Producing in general,
(21:34):
that that production was not as you imagined it would be.
I suppose I must have meant that it wasn't as
hard as I thought it would have been. You know
what I mean, because I've been doing it for so
many years before that, and I know how to produce
myself my own records, but I'd never try and producing
(21:55):
somebody else's. So that was the hard bit was like,
but it's ever so hard doing that as you've got
to please all these other people as well as yourself.
But it turned out that that it works out that
everybody enjoyed what it did, so wonderful. Great. You mentioned
(22:19):
George Harrison, but you know, ultimately you got to work
with Roy Orbison and Bob Dylan and these are you know,
these You've said these are your heroes, and I'm wondering
as you're doing that, did you occasionally have to kind
of turn off that the fan and you like, oh
my god, I'm working with George Harrison and Roy Roberson.
Well it was pretty amazing. I must, I must admit,
(22:39):
you know, the first Wilbury session, it was like we're
all exit Bob. Yeah, so Tom said, I'm the boys said, George,
you said, And then we're sitting around the table, little
guitars there as you go, and we go Bob's lateny,
(23:00):
So we're going on if he's coming, No, of course
he's coming. And of course he came and we wrote
this wonderful song. George had already written it, actually half
of it, and we finished it off in Bub Dylan's garage.
There's not many people can say that they produced a
record in Bub Dylan's garage. Yeah, that's pretty good. It's
pretty good. Yeah. Um, I and and fair warning only
(23:23):
asked for a couple of questions from the house here
in a minute. But um, I have to ask you
about Tom Petty. Um Yeah, yeah, yeah, I love Tom. Yeah.
Tom was the coolest guy I've ever known. He really was.
It was just cool personified. And what a terrible loss.
(23:44):
I just sit him playing at the at the Hollywood
Ball but like four nights before. Yeah, it was just
just I couldn't believe it when yeah terrible. Is there
is there a moment in the in the in the
years that you worked with him, Is there a moment
in in the in the in the studio or just
(24:06):
hanging around that stands out for you that is somehow
emblematic of who you knew him to be. Many of them, actually,
many moments. Many when he strikes up with his with
his vocal. You know, we we've already written the song
and that, and we've got the back in down, and
when he strikes up with his vocal, well, there's no
(24:28):
mistaken what that's about. It's somebody and he's doing his
his thing. And it was always so cool. He managed
to keep it cool always. He never straight over that
line where he was uncle, always great. I love Tom
so much And it was a terrible shock, obviously to everybody,
(24:51):
I'm sure, but I know him kind of pretty well,
and and it was just devastated. Really. Yeah. Um, so
in the film, you you talk about things yet to
be done and things you want to you still want
(25:12):
to do. What what are you thinking about these days,
we're what what do you want to be doing? I'm
just like, I love messing with music, you know, basically
that's what I do. After all I've ever done since
I was eighteen, you know, and it's quite a long
time ago now, and I just love it. You know,
I still love it. I have the same passion, probably
(25:34):
a little bit lazier than I was, but I will
go at something until I get it, you know, get
this bastard, you know if it texts me months. But
and I love doing that. I love chasing that tune
and that melody and that that said of words it
fits right on the good bit, so you can, you know,
(25:56):
you can have a real nice melody that's got good
words and they all come the right place. That's the
hardest bit of all of it. Still still finding the
unusual chords that go, oh, I love chords, yea. Chords
are my my thing, you know. I just love chords,
and I would just I do sit there searching out
(26:17):
chords and I still find new ones, which I can't believe,
and I go, where the hell was that I did
in all these years, you know, because it's only one
piece of would that big? So how many times can
you miss it? You know what I mean? So we
got we got time for one or two questions from
(26:38):
from the assembled throwing here, yes, sir, right here? Told
for the arms perfect, how did you say? Did you
do that number? So decided to do Roll over My Oven?
You know, it was a long long time ago. It
was one of the first things I thought, I've been
like a pseudo well semi pseudo classical influenced pseudo rock
(27:04):
and roll, pop, pseudo you know whatever I wanted. I thought,
what a perfect song for for to introduce some classical
strings into a rock and roll number is Bethoven because
the Beethoven's fifth and that's all it was. It was
the simplest idea I've ever had, and it was a
(27:25):
good one that still we still did the same uncle
forty five years later. I know you could say, what
don't you learn a new one? And it's still and
it's still killing them. Yes right here, anthology yeah now,
and then yeah, there was a third song. It was
(27:48):
never really on the table to do. We were only
going to ever do too two songs, but that the
one that was the third one. We sort of worked
a little bit on it, and then George decided George
didn't like it very much. He's thought somebody good? Is he?
You know? That's what Paul said. Anyway, he told me
(28:10):
that you were some guy on the internet and finished
it off wondering, No, I never have heard it, now,
was it all right? Really? I'll have to check that
out you way way in the back, Yes, sir? Attribute
(28:32):
to Tom on the new record? Uh? Do I play
on a tribute on the new record? Will you do
anything in tribute to Tom? Oh? I see now, I
haven't thought of that yet yet, but I've got like
probably another five or six to record. Yeah, um, I could.
Maybe that's a that's a nice idea. Thank you for
(28:52):
that idea. Yeah, right here. Many people have covered your
songs in the past, some of your older ones, like
like the move when She Drink did California Man? Have
you ever thought about bullying some of those out of
the bag and do some of your idol race songs? Oh?
Now you're going back you are eighteen? I think it was.
(29:16):
It was before electricity and before gas. No, but not
really because actually California Man wasn't one of my songs.
That was a royal Wood song. M I did the
other side do you which which they switched and made
that the A side eventually. But I've got no real
(29:39):
desire to do any more of the old ones. You know,
if I listened to them again, maybe for you know,
just have a session listening to them all. There might
be one that that I would like to do oh too,
But you know, it's all kind of it's all we got.
We got time for one or two more yes right here.
(30:01):
Now that you had a few decades to look back,
what are your favorite YLO albums? Favorite YLO albums, Yeah,
I would probably say that. I would have to say
that Out of the Blue is probably my favorite. But
I also like On the Third Day, which is an
(30:22):
early one. I like that because it's so different, it's
quirky and it's not like anything else. So we got
time for one more yes right here. So an Idol
(30:43):
Race reunion they could, they could, I'd love it, which
means you may still get to go to England. You
just won't see well. I might pop up for one number,
you know, the skeleton and around about oh, very very
meaningful lyrics there. You've got to be careful. So last
(31:07):
last question. Um Ilo was inducted into the Rock and
Roll Hall of Fame. Yeah, thank you, thank you very much.
And I'm wondering and deservedly so, and thank you. What
does that kind of recognition mean to you. It's just
very nice to be in a club where the only
(31:28):
amount of the amount of people, but when they sent
me a letter like saying you congratulations, you're one of
eight hundred and twenty three people ever inducted into the
Old of Fame, people not groups. Yes, so I felt
quite privileged to be in that bunch, you know, considering
Chuck Berrys in it, and the Beatles and everybody you've
(31:51):
ever heard of. So I'll take it. Thank you. Well,
all I know is it's it's it's a terrific film.
Um that the music is undeniable. We could not be
more pleased that you took the time to bring the
(32:12):
film and come and talk about it. Ladies and gentlemen.
Jeff Lynn, thank you, Thank you very much. Thank you. Jeff.
You gotta love that story about the early E. L
O shows. It sounded like chaos and an awful lot
of fun. Jeff is out touring with E l O
(32:34):
this year, and I highly encourage you to go see
a show short of that. Check out the recent concert
film Wembley or Bust and you'll know every song. And
that's your required listening for today. Keep the conversation going
with us. We're on all the socials at Grammy Museum.
If you're coming to Los Angeles, I hope you'll visit us.
All the information is on our website Grammy museum dot org. Finally,
(32:56):
thanks to the team that brings you required listening. Justin
Joseph Jim Cannella, Lynn Sheridan, Miranda Moore, Callie Weissman, and
Michael Rorebacker. Until next time, I'm Scott Goldman.
Welcome to Required Listening. I'm your host, Scott Goldman, Artistic
director of the Grammy Museum. Each week in the Clive
Davis Theater, I've got the opportunity to speak to artists
from across the musical spectrum about their careers, their struggles,
their inspiration, and their creative process. Now I am a
very lucky guy, as are the two hundred people that
(00:22):
get to join me at the Grammy Museum. But now
with Required Listening, I'm thrilled to share these remarkable interviews
with you. On today's episode, my conversation with Rock and
Roll Hall of Fame member Jeff Lynn. With a career
that extends back to the nineteen sixties, his resume is
(00:44):
truly astounding. Founding member of Electric Light Orchestra, founding member
of The Traveling Wilberries, multi platinum and Grammy winning producer,
Jeff Lynn is one of the most successful artists and
producers in modern music. Yet with all that success us
he has to be the most humble superstar I've ever encountered.
(01:04):
We got together following a screening of the E l
O concert film Wembley or Bust. I think you'll hear
how his affable and self deprecating persona belies his gifts
as a supremely talented songwriter and producer, but when you
hear him talk about his reverence for his musical heroes
Del Shannon and Roy Orbison, you begin to understand the
(01:26):
depth of his commitment to music and what that commitment
means to him personally. We'll also discuss the current iteration
of E. L. O Playing sold out shows around the
world and what it feels like to see multiple generations
of fans enjoying his music. So let's go to the
Clive Davis Theater and listen to my conversation with Jeff Lay.
(01:51):
Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome the soul producer and songwriter
of Yellow Rock and Roll Hall of Fame member Jeff
Lynn Gonna. Thank you, Scot Hello, hell, I want you
(02:12):
to want you. Hey there, we are, thank you very much,
thanks for coming, by the way, it's a it's a
great pleasure to have you all year. It's great to
have you here. I know I thought that was Robert No.
I didn't really, I've been here before, um, but I
just was. It was just so nice to hear it
sounding good in when when you see it what what
(02:34):
do you think? Oh, well, I think what a load
of work that was. It really was, because you know,
it's like it's the first time I've ever played for
two hours for a start, and that is a lung
spok for me, because I usually give you about one
and a half hours. I got enough, so it's gonna
clap no more. But I just carried on because I
(02:58):
knew it was one and own the time. We've never
playing a giant place like that and film in a once,
so we needed the film of all those songs, which
is twenty three by the way, Well don't for sitting
through it all. Yeah, there you go. But Mike, I
mean it's it's an amazing catalog of songs. It's just
(03:19):
thank you, thank you all, thank you. And by and
by the way, how how did you How long did
it take to assemble that band? That was quite that's
quite a band. It's a wonderful band. And I love him.
I love him to be. It's every one of them.
I think they're great guys. This one guy missing out
(03:40):
of the band at the moment, and that's which your challenge, Tandy. Yeah,
it wasn't well, but he will be well for the
next two when we're coming back to America. Well that's great. Yeah,
and we'd love to hear that there's the next tour, yeah,
which will be that's pretty exciting. Yeah, I know, it's
absolutely amazing. I thought i'd pack that in, but obviously
I haven't. Well, and this all and this all kind
(04:03):
of started this, this um revitalization resurgence of Yellow two
thousand fourteen in Hyde Park. Yes, what what inspired that show? Well,
the thing is, I've done a little documentary which is cool, mr,
Mr this guy, which you came in and we showed
it here, we showed it here. Yeah, and that's what
(04:25):
started it. And then suddenly the baby see gone on
and said, how'd you like to play a concert in
Hyde Park? You know, top of the bill which was
fifty people, And I thought, well, nah, you know, I thought, yes,
of course I'd love to, and and that's how that happened,
(04:45):
and it was that was a marvelous thing because I
was so worried about that because that was the first
big proper show for many many years, you know, well
thirty years. But don't mention it on the resume. Um,
it's actually it's it's very strange to be doing this
film here now again, because when I looked at it,
(05:07):
I thought the group was totally brilliant and I love
them all, I really do fantastic. Would you concerned in
in high Park that that that maybe the fans wouldn't
be there? Was was Was there a nervousness about that? Yes?
I thought there'd been nobody there, and I kept saying
to my manager Craig, um, you know what if there's
(05:32):
nobody left when we get on, you know, because we
last on a big, long day full of music, you know,
like probably I don't know, eight hours of it or something,
and we're on last. So by the time I get
dark and I thought, oh gotta he was somebody still here.
And I climbed up these ladders to the stage and
it was packed to the you know, the whole part
(05:53):
was packed people. So I went, well, maybe they do
like it, this music, I feel, yeah, you know, it's
very art. And now when you're a songwriter of all
the songs, you know, it's it's quite difficult to know
who likes what and and how it goes. But most
people tell me that they like it very much, so
(06:15):
that that's always a great thing, and it keeps me going,
and I'm writing a new album at the moment even
better and I'm seven, So thank you, and I hope
you'll like it when you hit it a better way
to see in the In the early days, in the
very early days of l O, how did you describe
(06:37):
the band if somebody asked you, yeah, yeah, you're in
you're in this band? What what do they do? What?
Early do you want? Go ahead? Well, very early it
was like it was like a shambles, really, people falling
over and stuff and and wires all wrapping around people's
necks and marching spikes throwing him into people's chests. It
(06:59):
was a horrible experience. I hated that first grip. And
I have to ask you, wellthough I think I know
the answer, how did how did those early shows sound?
Because there was no Honestly, there's a reason why. It
wasn't anything to do with the guys or the people
who were playing it. It was because there was no
(07:21):
technology in nineteen two to mike upboard to amplify violins
and cellos and stuff like that. There just weren't anything.
And suddenly this pickup came out that strapped onto the
violin itself, onto the bridge and onto the cello, and
suddenly you could hear them instead of this feedback what
we used to get all the time, It's like here
(07:42):
we go one on five, right over you a great
you think, lovely, thank you. Once the pickups came along,
it became a lot of fun and you could actually
hear the people play. And then we went hanging, which
was worse than oh whatever playing. I'm kidding, Sorry everybody,
(08:05):
I'm just kidding. I read you've talked about Evil Woman
as being a song where you you kind of learned,
You learned about songwriting and production writing that song, recording
that song. Well, what I did learn was that I
could actually write a song in six minutes. And I
(08:27):
didn't know I could do that before. I've never tried
because I sent the rest of the group out because
I was one short on the face the music face
the music album, Yeah thank you, I was something like that.
But now I was one. I really I thought I
(08:48):
hadn't got I haven't got a proper hit single on
here you know yet. I'm gonna make one up now.
So you go up in you know, ground the shops
or whatever in Germany. This is in Munich, and they
came back and luckily this song within six minutes and
it was like Evil Woman. So I was sure that
will do, and we made the record like that afternoon,
(09:12):
and a few other doubs later, you know, another session
put some put the strings on and all that, and
then they put the vocals on, and uh, it was
shocking to me because that I did it in six minutes,
the actual main theme and everything was done done. Ye
has that happened? Since? No wish it would. Let well,
(09:36):
we're glad it happened that time, no doubt. Who growing up,
who are your songwriting heroes? Who were yourr Who'd you
listen to and think that that's what I want to do? Well,
basically it was. It was Roy Orbison and Del Shannon
and the early Beatles, and that's what I used to
(09:57):
love most of all. I think looking at it now,
Royalson was probably the greatest talent that I ever heard
of you ever. Even now I listened to some of
the stuff. I always listen to his stuff. I can,
like binge listen to Royal obviously for like days on
end and just go, oh did you hear that bit?
Then you know it's just magnificent. It's just beautiful, beyond
(10:20):
believe Dell I loved from the first record I ever
loved was run Away and my dad actually splashed out
for the ticket because six and six months, which is
six shillings and six months in old money, which is
now like about threatened saft me in old money. No,
(10:40):
I don't know what I did, whatever it is it was.
You know, it's like cheap nowadays, but it was really
expensive in those days. I went to see Del live
and it just blew my mind because it was just
so fantastic and handsome and lovely mohairs suit and he
was voice was like what right? It was in this
(11:00):
tiny place called Birmingham Town Hall which held people. But
but speaking of Del Shannon and Roy Orbison, to a
certain degree there their music was it was almost plaintive.
It was they were both plaintive. And that's why I
loved him so much, because that's what I think, that's
what comes over in my music a little bit, that
(11:23):
the sort of painful part of stuff, you know, like
you know where she gone or whatever. Because I listened
to that, and then I listened to Can't Get It
out of my head, and it's there's there's there's the
same thing going on there, but there's a little bit
of loneliness, and you know, it's just what you can
write about. I can't write usually write jolly songs. Nan again,
(11:48):
I've come up with one, but they're usually like a
bit sort of grim, like there's something terrible happened in
the second. The other the thing I found fascinating is
um so in the you know, in the seventies disco
was in its in its glory um and and you
have you have praised disco, you have come to praise.
(12:12):
I love disco. I love it. I always have loved
it ever since I heard that first bang bang bang
bang and I realized, wow, you just keep the bangs
and then just fill the olds in with someone else
and it worked. I mean, Shane Little Love is the
perfect example right there. Yeah. Yeah, I'm less straight in London.
(12:35):
I really enjoyed doing disco, but you found the places
to fill in in in disco that that kind of
brought it over to rock audiences. Yeah, I think it did,
and which is very lucky in a way. But I
just enjoyed that beat and I just loved just that
strictness of it. So I could you can bend it
(12:55):
either side of it, you know, but you know it
just gives you that freedom to to go out on
a limb with that steady beat underneath. That's my excuse anyway.
And and in the you know, by by the time
in the in the later seventies, you guys are you
guys are playing big buildings. You're you're you're around this
is this is one of the bigger tours around. And
(13:16):
you've got that giant spaceship thing. Whatever happened to that,
I believe it got scrapped in the shipyard in East
Anglia because you know, it was like the biggest thing ever.
And what you're gonna do with it when you're fed
up with it? Well, if you had hung onto it,
we could have done an exhibit here around you. Now
you couldn't. You'd have to be build a bigger building.
(13:40):
We're working on that. Actually it was. It's kind of funny. Um,
did it ever malfunction? Did the thing ever go wrong?
Always like it did, Like it would all be underneath
it to start with. And we'll all be waiting there,
you know, anticipating this lift that's going to go up.
We stand on our lift, We have our own lift
(14:02):
each and some of them don't move, they just stay
there like dead weight. And so if it's your one
that's doing that, you jump on one that's going on
going on quick as you can. And then and then
one night, maybe two nights, that somebody the lift has
(14:22):
gone up to as far as the stage floor and
they got their read sticking out baskets and they got
really mad at they're really angry about it. Was hilarious,
but you know, and we're all going off too bad
for you now, I refuse to remember who you want.
(14:50):
So I want to ask you about the song Don't
Don't bring me down, because first song without strings, and
I'm wondering, did did did the novelty of the strings
kind of we're off? I used to it started out
where like, oh, it's string day to day. So we've
got the orchestra and for like two sessions of three
(15:11):
hours each, which used to go I used to go fantastic. Finally,
now he's getting beautiful, and and then like a few
albums later, like two or three albums later, it's like
a string day to day. I don't want any more
bleeding strings on anything, you know, I'm fed up with
(15:33):
them there, but you don't want to deal with those guys.
But well, because they were all unionized and they would
not play past a minute past what they were playing.
And you know, even if at the end of a
song they'll they'll just stop playing and put the stuff away,
and there's one minute to go on the sung and
they go, oh, hang on if you want us to
(15:53):
play the other minute, and you've got to play us
for another session. So it wasn't very pleasant at all.
It was just nasty. He didn't feel nice with him
because you felt, I don't want to do this, really,
but I'll have to pay another session for the for
like thirty musicians just to play one minute. So they
weren't very nice. I'm talking about forty odd years ago.
(16:16):
They're not like that now, I'm sure because the strength
since are really good now. So it's one guy in
the corner with a sin. Well, we've got we've got
three real strings in our group of course as well. Yes, yes, um,
the the film clearly shows. And one of the great
(16:41):
things about the film, besides the fact that it's shot
so well and it just looks great and sounds great,
but the audience, multiple generations, young folks who clearly and
don't take this the wrong way. We're not boring. I
(17:02):
have to leave now. Um, we're not born when your
first hit came out, and yet they are singing every
word because I've been fools feted by the which I love,
because how else you're going to spread it to everybody,
you know? And when they when you see him on
the film and the kids singing and that happens to
(17:24):
be singing it. Yes, it just makes you feel really good,
you know, because when you're songwriter, that's what you want
to do. You're trying to connect with as many people
as possible to try and have them enjoy that moment,
you know. And if they do, it's wonderful. If they don't,
then hard luck me. And and we have to talk
(17:45):
about the physical place Wembley because that that that really
means something people in the United States may not may
not be as aware, but Wembley Stadium is it's it's
the Yankee Stadium. It is of the UK. It's an
icon't you know. And that is like a real big
one because of the football, you know, the soccer in England.
(18:07):
That's where they play all the very important games. And
so from from a kid growing up. Wembley is like
the home of like, oh, your favorite fantasies and anything,
you know, football wise and music wise, because they've been
having concerts there for many many years as well. And
did you go see shows they are? By any chance?
(18:29):
I actually played in one, you know, way down the
list of like a couple of acts down. So I
just did a couple of numbers on There never been
you know, the group that went on to be top
of the bill. Yeah, except all that film what you
just saw, So that was that it turned out pretty well.
(18:51):
Um when when when you dissolved yell o in in
or so did you play to go into production? Did
you plan? Oh? Absolutely you did. I didn't want to
play anymore with the group as it was. Um, it
just wasn't. I wasn't enjoying myself in his And then
(19:14):
when George Harrison asked me if I would like to
work on him, work with him, not not work on
him work that was later cheeky thing. Now work with
him on his album on a new album. He wanted
to make. Dave Edmonds tome with that at dinner one
(19:37):
night and he said, oh, by the way, George asked
me if you if you'd like to work on him,
work with him on his new album. And I said
you kidding? Really? And I said that's good and he
said yep. And he's asked me to take you around
to his house tomorrow and I go, okay, then let's
(19:59):
do it it round in Dave's car and he dropped
me off there. I went in to George's ass, which
is like this giant palace, you know, beautiful, unbelievable thing.
I was frightened to go in really because I wasn't
Winston Churchill or something. I didn't know how to handle it.
But anyway, so I went in there and Olivia said, oh,
(20:23):
he's down by the lake. He's going to give you
a boat ride. And I thought, great, that would be good. Anyway,
I went down to the lake and then he was
the real George there. He was just standing there going, hey,
and we're sitting on a boat ride, but we're going
into some tunnels. So what don't put your hands outside
the boat, just leave your hands inside and grip with
(20:50):
your bum. So that's what happened. You have to learn
how to grip with your boy. That's something I learnt
before I ever started recording things. You learned from a Beatle.
It's fantastic. From the best, only from the best, only
(21:12):
from the best. But speaking of producing, I read a
quote of yours where you said it wasn't it wasn't
like you imagined. How how how so how how did how?
How did producing turn out for you? What? What? Why
wasn't it like you imagined it would be? Producing in general,
(21:34):
that that production was not as you imagined it would be.
I suppose I must have meant that it wasn't as
hard as I thought it would have been. You know
what I mean, because I've been doing it for so
many years before that, and I know how to produce
myself my own records, but I'd never try and producing
(21:55):
somebody else's. So that was the hard bit was like,
but it's ever so hard doing that as you've got
to please all these other people as well as yourself.
But it turned out that that it works out that
everybody enjoyed what it did, so wonderful. Great. You mentioned
(22:19):
George Harrison, but you know, ultimately you got to work
with Roy Orbison and Bob Dylan and these are you know,
these You've said these are your heroes, and I'm wondering
as you're doing that, did you occasionally have to kind
of turn off that the fan and you like, oh
my god, I'm working with George Harrison and Roy Roberson.
Well it was pretty amazing. I must, I must admit,
(22:39):
you know, the first Wilbury session, it was like we're
all exit Bob. Yeah, so Tom said, I'm the boys said, George,
you said, And then we're sitting around the table, little
guitars there as you go, and we go Bob's lateny,
(23:00):
So we're going on if he's coming, No, of course
he's coming. And of course he came and we wrote
this wonderful song. George had already written it, actually half
of it, and we finished it off in Bub Dylan's garage.
There's not many people can say that they produced a
record in Bub Dylan's garage. Yeah, that's pretty good. It's
pretty good. Yeah. Um, I and and fair warning only
(23:23):
asked for a couple of questions from the house here
in a minute. But um, I have to ask you
about Tom Petty. Um Yeah, yeah, yeah, I love Tom. Yeah.
Tom was the coolest guy I've ever known. He really was.
It was just cool personified. And what a terrible loss.
(23:44):
I just sit him playing at the at the Hollywood
Ball but like four nights before. Yeah, it was just
just I couldn't believe it when yeah terrible. Is there
is there a moment in the in the in the
years that you worked with him, Is there a moment
in in the in the in the studio or just
(24:06):
hanging around that stands out for you that is somehow
emblematic of who you knew him to be. Many of them, actually,
many moments. Many when he strikes up with his with
his vocal. You know, we we've already written the song
and that, and we've got the back in down, and
when he strikes up with his vocal, well, there's no
(24:28):
mistaken what that's about. It's somebody and he's doing his
his thing. And it was always so cool. He managed
to keep it cool always. He never straight over that
line where he was uncle, always great. I love Tom
so much And it was a terrible shock, obviously to everybody,
(24:51):
I'm sure, but I know him kind of pretty well,
and and it was just devastated. Really. Yeah. Um, so
in the film, you you talk about things yet to
be done and things you want to you still want
(25:12):
to do. What what are you thinking about these days,
we're what what do you want to be doing? I'm
just like, I love messing with music, you know, basically
that's what I do. After all I've ever done since
I was eighteen, you know, and it's quite a long
time ago now, and I just love it. You know,
I still love it. I have the same passion, probably
(25:34):
a little bit lazier than I was, but I will
go at something until I get it, you know, get
this bastard, you know if it texts me months. But
and I love doing that. I love chasing that tune
and that melody and that that said of words it
fits right on the good bit, so you can, you know,
(25:56):
you can have a real nice melody that's got good
words and they all come the right place. That's the
hardest bit of all of it. Still still finding the
unusual chords that go, oh, I love chords, yea. Chords
are my my thing, you know. I just love chords,
and I would just I do sit there searching out
(26:17):
chords and I still find new ones, which I can't believe,
and I go, where the hell was that I did
in all these years, you know, because it's only one
piece of would that big? So how many times can
you miss it? You know what I mean? So we
got we got time for one or two questions from
(26:38):
from the assembled throwing here, yes, sir, right here? Told
for the arms perfect, how did you say? Did you
do that number? So decided to do Roll over My Oven?
You know, it was a long long time ago. It
was one of the first things I thought, I've been
like a pseudo well semi pseudo classical influenced pseudo rock
(27:04):
and roll, pop, pseudo you know whatever I wanted. I thought,
what a perfect song for for to introduce some classical
strings into a rock and roll number is Bethoven because
the Beethoven's fifth and that's all it was. It was
the simplest idea I've ever had, and it was a
(27:25):
good one that still we still did the same uncle
forty five years later. I know you could say, what
don't you learn a new one? And it's still and
it's still killing them. Yes right here, anthology yeah now,
and then yeah, there was a third song. It was
(27:48):
never really on the table to do. We were only
going to ever do too two songs, but that the
one that was the third one. We sort of worked
a little bit on it, and then George decided George
didn't like it very much. He's thought somebody good? Is he?
You know? That's what Paul said. Anyway, he told me
(28:10):
that you were some guy on the internet and finished
it off wondering, No, I never have heard it, now,
was it all right? Really? I'll have to check that
out you way way in the back, Yes, sir? Attribute
(28:32):
to Tom on the new record? Uh? Do I play
on a tribute on the new record? Will you do
anything in tribute to Tom? Oh? I see now, I
haven't thought of that yet yet, but I've got like
probably another five or six to record. Yeah, um, I could.
Maybe that's a that's a nice idea. Thank you for
(28:52):
that idea. Yeah, right here. Many people have covered your
songs in the past, some of your older ones, like
like the move when She Drink did California Man? Have
you ever thought about bullying some of those out of
the bag and do some of your idol race songs? Oh?
Now you're going back you are eighteen? I think it was.
(29:16):
It was before electricity and before gas. No, but not
really because actually California Man wasn't one of my songs.
That was a royal Wood song. M I did the
other side do you which which they switched and made
that the A side eventually. But I've got no real
(29:39):
desire to do any more of the old ones. You know,
if I listened to them again, maybe for you know,
just have a session listening to them all. There might
be one that that I would like to do oh too,
But you know, it's all kind of it's all we got.
We got time for one or two more yes right here.
(30:01):
Now that you had a few decades to look back,
what are your favorite YLO albums? Favorite YLO albums, Yeah,
I would probably say that. I would have to say
that Out of the Blue is probably my favorite. But
I also like On the Third Day, which is an
(30:22):
early one. I like that because it's so different, it's
quirky and it's not like anything else. So we got
time for one more yes right here. So an Idol
(30:43):
Race reunion they could, they could, I'd love it, which
means you may still get to go to England. You
just won't see well. I might pop up for one number,
you know, the skeleton and around about oh, very very
meaningful lyrics there. You've got to be careful. So last
(31:07):
last question. Um Ilo was inducted into the Rock and
Roll Hall of Fame. Yeah, thank you, thank you very much.
And I'm wondering and deservedly so, and thank you. What
does that kind of recognition mean to you. It's just
very nice to be in a club where the only
(31:28):
amount of the amount of people, but when they sent
me a letter like saying you congratulations, you're one of
eight hundred and twenty three people ever inducted into the
Old of Fame, people not groups. Yes, so I felt
quite privileged to be in that bunch, you know, considering
Chuck Berrys in it, and the Beatles and everybody you've
(31:51):
ever heard of. So I'll take it. Thank you. Well,
all I know is it's it's it's a terrific film.
Um that the music is undeniable. We could not be
more pleased that you took the time to bring the
(32:12):
film and come and talk about it. Ladies and gentlemen.
Jeff Lynn, thank you, Thank you very much. Thank you. Jeff.
You gotta love that story about the early E. L
O shows. It sounded like chaos and an awful lot
of fun. Jeff is out touring with E l O
(32:34):
this year, and I highly encourage you to go see
a show short of that. Check out the recent concert
film Wembley or Bust and you'll know every song. And
that's your required listening for today. Keep the conversation going
with us. We're on all the socials at Grammy Museum.
If you're coming to Los Angeles, I hope you'll visit us.
All the information is on our website Grammy museum dot org. Finally,
(32:56):
thanks to the team that brings you required listening. Justin
Joseph Jim Cannella, Lynn Sheridan, Miranda Moore, Callie Weissman, and
Michael Rorebacker. Until next time, I'm Scott Goldman.
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I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com