March 1, 2018 • 42 mins
Legendary GRAMMY nominated singer Johnny Mathis sits with Scott Goldman to explore his latest album Johnny Mathis Sings the Great New American Songbook, alongside the album’s co-producers, 11-time GRAMMY winner Kenneth “Babyface” Edmonds, and five-time GRAMMY winner Clive Davis.
Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to Required Listening. I'm your host, Scott Goldman, the
executive director of the Grammy Museum. Every week in the
Clive Davis Theater, I have the particular privilege of talking
to great music artists about their inspirations, their motivations, what
goes in to making great music. On today's episode, three
(00:26):
of the most prominent names in music over the last
half century, Clive Davis, Kenny Baby Faced Edmonds, and Johnny Mathis.
Now they were brought together by Clive Davis to produce
and record a new album by Johnny Mathis entitled Johnny
Mathis Sings the Great New American Songbook Think songs like
(00:46):
Bruno Mars, Just the Way You Are or Leonard Cohen's
classic Hallelujah. The album was produced by Kenny Edmonds and
the songs were interpreted by Johnny Mathis. But let's consider
these three gentlemen. A list of artists whose careers Davis
has shepherded reads like a modern history of the music business.
(01:06):
Janis Joplin, sly Stone, The Grateful Debt, Aretha Franklin, Billy Joel,
Alicia Keys, Bruce Springsteen, Barry Manilo Lou Reid, Patti Smith,
Carly Simon, and of course Whitney Houston. And I might
add that he's the namesake of our theater at the
Grammy Museum. Now, Kenny Edmonds has won eleven Grammy Awards
(01:28):
and written Get This an incredible forty seven top ten hits,
And of course Johnny Mathis, whose Greatest Hits collection spent
an incredible four hundred and nine consecutive weeks on the
Billboard Top one hundred. Our discussion ranged from song choices
to production decisions and how an artist like Mathis seems
(01:51):
so completely grateful after decades in music for the opportunity
to work with these incredible collaborators. Now, Clive doesn't miss
a eat in finding every opportunity to encourage the audience's
appreciation for his artist and the song choices that they made.
So let's go to the Clive Davis Theater and listen
to my conversation with Clive Davis, baby Face, and Johnny Mathis.
(02:19):
So allow me to make a couple of very special introductions. Here. First,
a gentleman whose career credits include eleven Grammy Awards, an
incredible forty seven top ten Hot one hundred hits. He's
worked with artists from Boys two Men to Seline Dione,
Aretha Franklin to Mariah Carey, Mary J. Blige to Tony Braxton,
(02:42):
tlc Usher and Outcast, just to name a few. He
was recently inducted, and rightfully so, into the Songwriters Hall
of Fame, Ladies and gentlemen. The producer of Johnny Mathis
sings the Great New American song book Kenny Baby Face Edmonds.
Such a way now right there. Thank you for being
(03:06):
here than an artist whose six decade career has been
marked by sales and artistic success. Without compare over sixty
albums to reach the Billboard charts, a dozen achieving gold
or platinum status songs such as Chances Are or Misty
(03:26):
that have truly become part of our shared musical d
n A. He is a five time Grammy nominee and
in two thousand three, a recipient of the Grammy Lifetime
Achievement Award. Would you please welcome Johnny Mathis book Book
(03:51):
kind A, Michael phone Rad Bless the Heart. It's strange,
you know, listening to yourself with other people listening at
the same You don't know whether the clem oh no
listen that part I want you so much for being
(04:13):
so nice to me. Thank you. This is this is
an honor for us. So I'm riffing off of that.
What do you hear when you listen to yourself? Do
you hear the beauty of it? Do you hear specific parts?
Do you hear the mistakes? You know what? I hear
different things at different times. Some of the songs, for instance,
(04:33):
over the years that I recorded for with Percy Faith,
religious songs, the Call and a Union, things of that nature,
and I hear the words, uh nolody has to be there.
But when I listened to this, I I want to
(04:54):
like baby Face here. I hear so many wonderful, so
many wonderful things that that I'm not capable of doing. Uh.
But I was so happy to be a part of
this project, and I am just very grateful to be
on the stage, not only with baby should Clive Davis.
(05:17):
I wanted to say something about the fact that when
I first came to Columbia workers, I never really met anybody,
uh hierarchy people. Um, I never knew whether they ever
listened to me. But with Clive it was wonderful because
he introduced me to Tommy Bell and Tommy Bell wrote
(05:39):
all these wonderful songs for the Stylistics and what have you,
and I was in love with all those songs at
that moment in time. You'll never know what it's like
to be a singer. And you hear all these songs,
you can't wait to get in to record them. So
I got a chance to work with Tommy, and Clive
has been on my side, as he mentioned earlier, I've
sunk from him for him on so many occasions, and
(06:02):
it's just a joy to be on the same stage.
We're still hit the claude so indeed, so I'm very
interested in this relationship. The producer artist relationship, you know,
oftentimes can make or break the sound of a track
or an album. Um baby face, first of all, tell me,
tell me the first time you remember hearing Johnny mathis Johnny,
(06:27):
it's Christmas? To me? I mean when Christmas is and
Christmas unless until you hear Johnny saying that, that's when
it's officially Christmas. And it's not until you until that happens,
and um so, and I go all the way back
to when hearing chances are and that was like, really,
(06:49):
it's like the voice of an angel. It's like, you know,
who is this? Why is this? It's like and it was.
It just blew me away from years ago. So to
fine be able to actually go in the studio, it
was nothing that I ever expected what happened in my life.
And then Clive calls me and says, hey, I got
an idea for you. Good. So here you are working. Now,
(07:14):
I'm going to talk talk about you in the third person,
and I apologize for that. Um um, so here you
are working with someone that you've been listening to since
since you were a kid. Um an iconic, legendary voice.
A little bit of pressure going on there, Yeah, a
lot of pressure, but but I felt I felt safe
(07:34):
and uh in the hands with Clive and and a
couple other guys that were on, Jay Landers and John Depp.
They were they were everybody was all teaming up and
they were making sure we would not go the wrong way.
We were gonna make sure that we did it the
right way. I couldn't miss this one up because this
was you know, it's Johnny, tell me about tell me
about some of the discussions and Clive, you know, feel
(07:56):
free to jump in here. In terms of making the
song choices, this Clive said, um, you know very very
much intent on creating news standards. You know, if if
you will tell me about the discussions about about making
the song. Well, the truth is when you work, you
know with someone like Kenny Edmonds, and he and I
(08:19):
met for the first time when I asked him and
l A Read to do the the Ambi Baby Tonight
reduced an album and and they did such an amazing job.
And they had had nineteen number one R and B records,
(08:42):
but never a number one pop record. And we knew
that it was time for Whitney in the third album
to show that she could sing pure urban songs or
songs with the more urban base. They delivered big time.
We got along so well that we launched together this
(09:03):
incredible venture that he and La She had known as
Lafay's Records. And so we went through Usher and TLC
and Tony Braxton and Pink and Outcast. I mean, an
incredible run. So when you deal with his genius what
she is um I had asked when when he was
(09:26):
doing Waiting for Excel, please don't just have different artists.
That Temps score was Stephen Bishop, James Taylor. What you
need in a movie like this is statements for African
American women, so that the songs have got to move
the storyline forward. And in short order he came up
(09:49):
with the first number one puppet that Mary J. Blige
had not gonna cry sitting in my room for Brandy, shoot,
shoot for Whitney Houston. I mean, one after another. So
when he agreed to work on this project, you don't
discuss it, you yes, I suggested, and Johnny and I
went back and forth on the song choices. But once
(10:12):
he had them, you know, you let him do a thing,
and he did it in a remarkable way. You're you're, you're,
you're kind of laughing here a little bit about about
what were those discussions like about the song choice? Hey
do you have me to sing that song? But because
you get knee jerk, you know, you somebothing and you
(10:33):
you've got your own mind about what you do and
how you do it and what have you, and and
it was it was over the years, though my career
is is exactly like that. I've always had some I
don't know what to sing, I mean, you know, I
think stuff. But but the guidance that people give you
(10:57):
and and the revelation these songs. They're new to me.
It's just like you when you listen to something that's
absolutely new. That's the way I hear the song and
I go, I wonder if I can sing that. He's
got some high notes in it. And but that's what
people like Clive. They have an understanding. How does he
(11:19):
know that I can sing that? You know you? You
have no guarantee. And so he puts himself on the
line a little bit by suggesting, but so far, thank you,
and i'd like to I can't. I can't say enough
about this gentleman who lent us his his studio. He
(11:40):
has an incredible studio, recording studio, and he I never
I'm so stupid. I never knew you'd played the guitar.
I didn't singer write Singers don't play guitar. Singers the singers.
I know only things. I can't do anything. Um, but
(12:01):
it was such a joy when he we were in
the studio. He came out with his guitar and he
sat down and job, wait, it's crazy because I know
his music and I was singing, and he has given
himself of the greatest thing that anybody can do for
(12:22):
another person. That's the friendship. He's given me friendship, and
what a joy it is to be with him on
this stage. Tell me, so, you know producers can do
many things for for artists. Yeah, well, but that that
(12:43):
could that could be part of it. Tell me, tell
me a little bit about how Kenny helped you through
the process of making this right. Well, he made me
do it a hundred and fifty times and he I
found out later that he liked my singing. Very important
(13:05):
step one. So naturally he wanted it to be good
because he likes my singing. Okay, we'll do it. We'll
do it till the crows come in, and that's what
we did. We did a lot of takes because he
wanted certain qualities that he heard that sounded like Johnny Mathis.
And sometimes I go in the studio and you know,
(13:28):
you your voices quite what it should be or something,
And when I have you, when you're struggling and you
don't sound like Johnny Mathis, it sounds like somebody else.
But he was wonderful. He I would sing something and
I thought, I can't sing it any better, and he said,
I know you can't, but you can see it differently.
(13:49):
It's an English lesson too okay dramatically once they're Was
there a particular song that that you worked on where
you knew at that point that this partnership would work,
was what was was? Was there one song that sort
(14:10):
of stood out where was like, yep, this is this
is going right? The all the songs become a blurer
after a while, and all you remember is whether you
achieved what you were after at that song. Um. The
minute I heard the playback on the first song that
I did, where he kept suggesting that I do it
(14:34):
over again and again and again and again, I was hooked.
I said, I'll do it till Lacas come in, you know,
because he knows what he wants. But I've been doing
this for so many years with so many people who
never gave their opinion and never said anything to me,
and I was always on my own, and I was
just guessing, I'm a singer. I'm not you know, I'm
(14:56):
not a producer and what I mean, so I all
I heard it was what I thought was good. But
they are sitting there listening to me as fans as
well as big technicians, and what happen, and so it
was a joy to be with them. It was a
joy to work that hard and to get the results.
Sometimes you work hard don't get the results, but this
(15:19):
time we did it. Yeah, yeah, Kenny, tell me, Um,
the first time you started listening back to these to
these tracks, what did you what were you hearing from
from him? Were you hearing something different, something better, something
more than you might have imagined when I listened to
(15:39):
the track? Yeah, yeah, as yeah, as you're listening, as
you're starting to record and you're listening to this stuff
back and getting used to working with Johnny. The first
moment that that Johnny started singing, and uh, we were
just like, that's Johnny mathis. And that was the best
thing about it is like you know, it was Johnny
mathis something you have to worry about, Like you know, now, Johnny,
(16:02):
you're you're eighty eight two. I was almost ad in
a year two. I think there's the first day comming.
So so you gotta wonder, you know, at um, at
at some point you're thinking, Okay, is he gonna have
the same voice? Is he gonna be he looks the same,
(16:22):
but is he gonna sound the same? And m and
he walked in and he started singing, and it was
like that's Johnny Mathis. It was this the same beautiful
voice that that I grew up listening to it, and
I and I almost every day I stopped myself from saying,
can you sing like Winter Wonderlands? Just thinking that sing
(16:44):
Um And uh, I didn't. I didn't ask him that.
But the other, the other part of it was that Um,
that Johnny, he's just like sunshine walking in into a
room because as you can see, you's he's funny as hell,
and he's and he's he is this person all the time.
And you wouldn't expect that from chances are you just silly?
(17:12):
That's the trick, the silly gran Um. But he's so
funny and and such one of the loveliest people I've
ever met in my life. He's this is a person
that is um that God has blessed him with such
a spirit and and there's a reason why he has
that voice, because God gave it to him and and
(17:34):
God also gave him this beautiful spirit. And I wish
everybody knew him the way that I know, because you know,
he just brings happiness to you when he walks in
the room. He's that guy, He's amazing. We we listened.
We listened to the you know, the first track on
the record, Hallelujah, and I was surprised that you had
not recorded that song previously, because it seems to me,
(17:56):
of the many songs on the record, that one was
somehow before you to sing. But that just goes to
show you that keep reiterating it. I'm just a singer.
I don't know what I should sing. So these people
that like, they're so important in my life, that's so important,
(18:22):
I'd still be singing, you know, I don't know what
I'd be singing. But I just am so excited about
this new album because it brings me up to date.
You know. Let me come on now, I'm eighty two
years old. You know, you what's he gonna sing? And
(18:45):
that's sort of the way things are. I need help.
And I've had the best possible with Clive Davis in
my life. I mean, it has been the most wonderful thing.
Every time I kind of have a lull in my career,
he calls and said, how do they like this thing? For?
You know, everybody in the world, that's what they do,
(19:06):
and and I get a boost in my career. Very important.
Thank you Clive for all the years. I've got a
picture of Clive and I when we were both twelve
or something like that. I've got it over there. But
there as all of these things, Um, you have to have,
(19:29):
uh for career. There's so many singers that I've heard
that are absolutely incredible, but nobody's ever heard them, and
it's just it's not fair, of course, but that's the
way things are. So I've had to have all of
these people helping me along the way, suggesting me for
(19:49):
things to try, and then I'll try anything. You know.
They have knowledge that I don't have, and I understand that.
My dad beat it into my head using you to
go with. My dad was my best pal in the world.
He said, come on, son, this is what we're gonna do.
He was always that way, inclusive yet seven kids. He
(20:10):
and my mom worked hard all the time, but he
still had time for me. He suggested after I was
twelve years old, it's just sun that why don't we
take some voice lessons? And I said, Dad, I can sing.
He said, yeah, I know, but and anyway, that's kind
(20:31):
of Dad I had. He was just a wonderful human
being and I'm fortunately he lived long enough to share
in my success, he and my mom did. And it's
all because of these people like this, because all I
do is saying, is there is there something in a song?
(20:51):
When Kenny and and Clive were picking out songs and
and going through them with you, is there something in
a song? What does the song have to have to
catch your her? You never know until you sing it.
I've turned down the Lord's player, you know, for you
you have to sing it first. You have to sing it.
(21:12):
Yeah and uh. And sometimes I've fought, like everybody else,
I don't want us sing that song. That's a terrible song.
And then I sing it and it sounds fine. No, no,
no problems. So I don't know. I'm a singer, so
let me let me read it. I want to read
(21:32):
you a quick quote. Um, the gentleman who wrote you
raised Me Up? Now you Raise Me Up? Has been
done by many many artists in many different languages, And
he said, Johnny Mathis has one of those instantly recognizable
voices of America that is endured and been loved for
over half a century. I grew up listening to him,
and to think, out of all the songs he could
(21:54):
have chosen for this special album, that something I'd written
would have this honor. Well, it's something for which we
songwriters lived, and God bless the song writers my efforts
(22:15):
at writing. Client, I'm gonna take this moment, okay, a
little unscheduled spontaneous because um one of the songs that
I came up with an obviously with my background with
Whitney Houston. UM, I was so enamored at the time
(22:36):
she did Bodyguard, And when I first saw the film,
there was only one song in it, and I said,
you can't do that. People won't know why she needed
a bodyguard just to have a straight talking thriller. So
I convinced Kevin Costner for more songs to be placed
(22:57):
in the film. And there's one song. I sent it
to Kevin after I had heard it from the composers. Uh.
He loved it and it plays an important role in
the Bodyguard film. The composers are here, and because they're
here today, first let me introduce you to Judd Friedman
and Alan Bridge, the composes. So you know, sometimes I
(23:29):
think there's I think there's one thing that that occasionally
gets lost when talking about about your career, and that
is you are one of the first artists, the earliest
artists to embrace the concept of an album as a
body of work as opposed to you know, it's very
much a singles business in the fifties, and and you
(23:50):
embraced the idea of songs as a collection. Can can
you talk about that a little bit? I think it
has First of all, uh, the gentleman who signed me
to my contract, George Vatkin Columbia Records, was the head
of jazz at the time, and he was accustomed to
(24:11):
presenting his artists with an album of songs. And I, well,
I didn't think I had enough pyrotechnics vocally to warrant
making a single record. I thought they well, I don't
know what I thought, but they had there been something
that I didn't have. I thought that in order to
(24:34):
succeed as a singer, I was going to have to
have two, three, four songs that people would listen to,
because most of the songs that I sang in those
days were pretty much songs. You know that the words
were kind of romantic, and they weren't we good romantic.
(24:54):
They turned out well, anyway, I need I needed something
that wasn't jazz, and it wasn't whatever was going on
at the time. Uh so all the luck that I've
had along the way getting introduced to the right people,
(25:16):
especially Columbia Records, because they were they were interested in
quality as opposed to big hit records that they didn't
happen any and so they were willing to wait until
whatever possibilities I had as an artist went until it happened.
(25:36):
And there's so many things that have to be in place,
you know, when you have a career, Uh, you just
don't do it all. You're you know, you're you're wonder
a little element of it. And and I'm so grateful
to all of the people, and especially the gentleman who
signed me to my record contract, Georgia Varkin, who was
(25:58):
the gentlest, kindest, most wonderful, intelligent Armenian man. And you
and you signed that first contract in nineteen with Columbia Records,
and you're still with Columbia Records. Um. Um, what is
having a home like that in a sense, First of all,
(26:20):
it's rare. Um. I've been told by somebody at like
a company that my tenure with him has been the
longest of any of the artists. And so that's all
I know. And I'm ignorant in that respect that I
don't know any other thing other than Columbia Records being
my home. That's and there's always been somebody there who
(26:44):
has cared enough about me. And let's face it, it's
not just your records. I haven't had a lot of
hit records. I had a few, but but you have
to have all the time, you know, to be thought
of all the time. Lities people, but they've hung in
there with me, and that's what you have to have.
(27:06):
You have to have all sorts of developments going along.
And I've been very lucky, been healthy. Right from the beginning.
I was involved in athletics and so that helped a lot.
I didn't really plan it. It just that's what you
do when you're a kid and you have no money.
You did go and run around the track. You know,
(27:34):
when they're young, Jazz musicians in particular are told two
in some way, no matter what the instrument is, to
find their voice. And I'm wondering, because you know, Kenny
was talking about the moment that you started singing. It
was it was Johnny Mathis, it was that voice. How
how did you find your voice? My dad was a singer,
(27:56):
but he had seven kids, and he had to work
all the time, he and my mom did. One day,
he came home with this piece pile of wood it
looked like and we here this four room basement flat
that we lived in. There were nine of us because
we had two of our relatives staying with us at
the time, so the nine people in four rooms. And
(28:19):
he sat down after fiddling around with this pile of
wood for hours and hours and hours, at about two
o'clock in the morning, we heard this song and it
was my dad playing the piano. So from that time on,
I sat next to my dad and sang with him,
(28:40):
and he taught me songs. And that was the most
wonderful thing that ever happened to me. But my dad
was my pal. He was like my best buddy in
the world. We went fishing together and but but he
did that to all his kids. But I took I mean,
I really loved him. He was he was a great
right And he's sang he's saying just like me, I
(29:03):
sound like my dad. So fair warning, we're gonna ask
for just a couple of questions from the house here,
um in a minute. But speaking of your father, you've
talked often about about the good fortune of growing up
in San Francisco in the nineteen fifties, and and and
some of the great particularly jazz artists that were coming
(29:23):
through San Francisco at that time. Tell us about some
of the artists that you saw when you were young. Well,
my older brother Clem and older sister Marguerite used to
go to the jazz clubs. There were a couple there was.
I used to go to the Black Hawk, which was
a famous jazz club in San Francisco. And I had
(29:46):
a buddy who played saxophone, and I would go to
his rehearsals and sit there. I was a guy about
twelve thirteen, and I listened and watch all of these
famous people come through, people like Dizzy Gillespie, H Garner,
Oscar Peterson, Miles Davis, on and on and on. And
(30:10):
I knew these people from the time I was twelve
and thirteen years old, and when I finally started to
sing and make records, and I see them on the tour,
you know, and hey, I remember you as I used
to sit at the rehearsals and listen to them all
(30:33):
uh play their instruments and sing and what have you.
I've been blessed in so many ways, just good luck.
I was so lucky. I was lucky to have a
dad like my dad who took me to the black Hawk.
And and because you couldn't go there I was a kid,
you couldn't go there. They served booze and the dad
would take me and we sit in the back and
(30:55):
they listened to all these extraordinary people. Syrevon Elephants, Joel singing,
Billy Exstein became one of my best pals. He's I
heard your little ship head when I was and nothing
like a mentor, but yeah, the gods have been so
(31:19):
kind to me. And and I'm still, you know, blessed
to have a recording at my age. You know, it's
still everybody sort of said, oh, guy's nice. So and
it sounds pretty good. I'll say, do we have a
question or two from the house, Yes, sir, right here.
I told a friend of mine I was coming to
see you today, and he said to make sure to
(31:40):
ask you about your first manager, Helen Nogan. How you
met her. Helen was the co owner of the black Hawk,
which was a those famous fat club in San Francisco
at the time and really probably has remained that of course,
there aren't any jazz clubs left anymore, I don't think.
But Helenoga was. She was our median and I had
(32:05):
been kind of used to meeting people who spoke different languages.
But she was quite a character. She was part owner
of the club. And she took me by the hand
one time when I was about thirteen and fourteen and said, kid,
and she had a mouth on her boy. She said,
(32:28):
you're gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna make you a star.
And she was so abrasive about her conversation when she
talked to me. And then she had to meet my mom,
and my mom said, John, you tell that woman you're
not her, So I'm your I said, mom, Mom, that's
(32:49):
just the way she is. So I had to go
through just trying to keep those two people in my
life together. And Beverly, how do you know? And Beverly
her daughter, well, Bev was on my side all the time.
Bever Lies me, yeah, well, yes, right there. Stories that's
(33:13):
a good question write in the book. I have been
told so many times that if I don't do it,
they will get it wrong, you know, and and so
many things that people have imagined about me, you know,
just the most far fetched that you could ever think of.
(33:35):
So yeah, eventually I will. I mean, I've sometimes I
amazed myself that certain things you have to do in life,
and some it takes me a little bit longer than
most people, I think, But I am gonna you have
there's a catalyst that you have to have whenever you
(33:56):
do anything. You have that but right people, at the
right time and the whole thing, And I'm gonna make
it happen because i really want the book to to
to tell about the reality of what I've gone through.
And it's a it's it's exciting and wonderful, but it's
(34:16):
not like some people think. But along the way, I
must say this, and I don't mind to be so
loo quscious, but there's so many things that are part
of my life that is that are absolutely necessary if
you're going to succeed. There's so many people who have
(34:40):
so much talent and they've never been able to be recognized.
And I always keep that in the back of my mind,
how lucky I am. But I've had so much help.
I've had a lot of luck. I met people like
Clive Davis, I met that baby face here has has
sat and listened to me screech in the morning, you know,
(35:00):
because he's been right there helping me along. And I
couldn't ask me anyone more capable of doing what he
does than him, because he sings like an angel. He's
got clever lyrics. He, to my amazement, played the guitar
(35:24):
and probably some other things that I haven't you know,
found out about him. But that's what you have to have.
If you're lucky enough to have it, and it falls
at the right time in your life, good things will happen.
Speaking of having the right team to bring this back
around to to the album. When they first came to
you with the idea of the Great New American Songbook, Well,
(35:48):
what was it? What was your first reaction? Well, you know,
going up as I did, they listening to that whole
and serve on out. It's so and all these people
like that and that don't hear that music anymore. So,
And I've been I discovered golf about forty years ago,
and that's what I do. I come off the road,
(36:11):
you know, doing my concerts, and I were under the
golf course. So I haven't heard any music on the
radio because there's no radio anymore. You can't find stuff,
So I just didn't know what I should have known.
It would probably have helped me and save me a
lot of problems. But now I'm in tune and and
(36:36):
and connected again thanks to Clive Davis. I keep reminding
him how connected he is at at our age and
have gone and started when we started, and we're still
excited about what we're doing. Thank you, and thank you, baby, Clive.
I'm gonna, um, yes, I'm gonna I'm gonna give you
(37:01):
the last word. Um, if you could put Johnny Mathis
in context in in in American popular music, all right,
I'll do that after I I say um spontaneously that
there are a very few albums that one daigns to
play each cut the way that we played today. Uh.
(37:25):
In my career, I did it with each Whitney Houston album.
I did it with Santana's Supernatural, and I did it
with Rod Stewart's The Great American Soul Book originally, And
to keep an audience attention from a rap point of view,
(37:45):
to play each cut and to know that it's taking hold, um,
you gotta do it rarely so that uh, in choosing
to do it today, we're doing it because we feel
the album is so special. Um, it's not that it's
going to come out and we're releasing single f two
(38:06):
singles so that you um and and speaking to you
as an audience. Uh, we're hoping that you're so taken
with this album apart from your feeling from Johnny, because
Johnny here is co starring with the copyrights, Johnny here
is endorsing these copyrights, reinterpreting these copyrights to make them standards,
(38:32):
and so from an attraction point of view, this album,
every song in this album is a wonderful song interpreted
and reinterpreted through the work of Kenny and with Johnny.
So we're very dependent on you to spread the word,
whether it be through the web, whether it be any
(38:54):
other way that a special, great traditional pop album, but
are refreshing traditional pop album, a creative traditional pop album,
a traditional pop album that has respect for new material
that can grow into standards. And so in summary, Johnny
(39:18):
matthis is at the top of the pantheon of old
time artists without question. I mean you find from a
female point of view that the three in my opinion,
I've just had a documentary coming out actually, um this
weekend as well on my life and I've had there.
(39:40):
These two gentlemen raised the Premier the other night and
will be available on Apple and UM. When asked being interviewed,
who were the three greatest singers in your lifetime? They
are to me Aretha, Frank Pupa strikes that with you
(40:02):
still when you talk about male artists in no order,
but showing with all of the great singers in a
lifetime there were three. There are Frank Sinatra, Tony Pettitt
and the great Johnny Mathis. Ladies and gentlemen, Clive Davis,
(40:27):
Kenny Edmonds and Johnny Mathis. Thank you, gentlemen. I'm still
blown away by Clive Davis's power of recall every track,
every artist he's ever worked with, still seemingly at the
tip of his fingers. The album is a result of
(40:47):
classic record making in a way that really rarely happens anymore. So,
first of all, I encourage you to listen to Johnny
Mathis Sings the Great New American Songbook. I would also
encourage you to go back and listen to Johnny mathis
is earliest material that is the finest example of the
state of pop music in the late nineteen fifties and
(41:08):
very early nineteen sixties. So that's your required listening for today.
Now we're coming to you with new episodes every week.
We're on all the social platforms, so let's keep the
conversation going at Grammy Museum. If you're planning to visit
Los Angeles, I do hope you'll visit us at the
Grammy Museum. Our website, grammy museum dot org has all
(41:32):
the information on our activities, our programs, and our exhibits.
And finally, a big thanks to the Required Listening team
Jason James, Justin, Joseph Kittrick, Kern's, Jim Kennella, Lynn Sheridan,
Miranda Moore, Callie Wiseman, Jason Hope, Chandler Mais, Nick Stump,
and everyone at How Stuff Works. Until next time, I'm
(41:52):
Scott Goldman.
Welcome to Required Listening. I'm your host, Scott Goldman, the
executive director of the Grammy Museum. Every week in the
Clive Davis Theater, I have the particular privilege of talking
to great music artists about their inspirations, their motivations, what
goes in to making great music. On today's episode, three
(00:26):
of the most prominent names in music over the last
half century, Clive Davis, Kenny Baby Faced Edmonds, and Johnny Mathis.
Now they were brought together by Clive Davis to produce
and record a new album by Johnny Mathis entitled Johnny
Mathis Sings the Great New American Songbook Think songs like
(00:46):
Bruno Mars, Just the Way You Are or Leonard Cohen's
classic Hallelujah. The album was produced by Kenny Edmonds and
the songs were interpreted by Johnny Mathis. But let's consider
these three gentlemen. A list of artists whose careers Davis
has shepherded reads like a modern history of the music business.
(01:06):
Janis Joplin, sly Stone, The Grateful Debt, Aretha Franklin, Billy Joel,
Alicia Keys, Bruce Springsteen, Barry Manilo Lou Reid, Patti Smith,
Carly Simon, and of course Whitney Houston. And I might
add that he's the namesake of our theater at the
Grammy Museum. Now, Kenny Edmonds has won eleven Grammy Awards
(01:28):
and written Get This an incredible forty seven top ten hits,
And of course Johnny Mathis, whose Greatest Hits collection spent
an incredible four hundred and nine consecutive weeks on the
Billboard Top one hundred. Our discussion ranged from song choices
to production decisions and how an artist like Mathis seems
(01:51):
so completely grateful after decades in music for the opportunity
to work with these incredible collaborators. Now, Clive doesn't miss
a eat in finding every opportunity to encourage the audience's
appreciation for his artist and the song choices that they made.
So let's go to the Clive Davis Theater and listen
to my conversation with Clive Davis, baby Face, and Johnny Mathis.
(02:19):
So allow me to make a couple of very special introductions. Here. First,
a gentleman whose career credits include eleven Grammy Awards, an
incredible forty seven top ten Hot one hundred hits. He's
worked with artists from Boys two Men to Seline Dione,
Aretha Franklin to Mariah Carey, Mary J. Blige to Tony Braxton,
(02:42):
tlc Usher and Outcast, just to name a few. He
was recently inducted, and rightfully so, into the Songwriters Hall
of Fame, Ladies and gentlemen. The producer of Johnny Mathis
sings the Great New American song book Kenny Baby Face Edmonds.
Such a way now right there. Thank you for being
(03:06):
here than an artist whose six decade career has been
marked by sales and artistic success. Without compare over sixty
albums to reach the Billboard charts, a dozen achieving gold
or platinum status songs such as Chances Are or Misty
(03:26):
that have truly become part of our shared musical d
n A. He is a five time Grammy nominee and
in two thousand three, a recipient of the Grammy Lifetime
Achievement Award. Would you please welcome Johnny Mathis book Book
(03:51):
kind A, Michael phone Rad Bless the Heart. It's strange,
you know, listening to yourself with other people listening at
the same You don't know whether the clem oh no
listen that part I want you so much for being
(04:13):
so nice to me. Thank you. This is this is
an honor for us. So I'm riffing off of that.
What do you hear when you listen to yourself? Do
you hear the beauty of it? Do you hear specific parts?
Do you hear the mistakes? You know what? I hear
different things at different times. Some of the songs, for instance,
(04:33):
over the years that I recorded for with Percy Faith,
religious songs, the Call and a Union, things of that nature,
and I hear the words, uh nolody has to be there.
But when I listened to this, I I want to
(04:54):
like baby Face here. I hear so many wonderful, so
many wonderful things that that I'm not capable of doing. Uh.
But I was so happy to be a part of
this project, and I am just very grateful to be
on the stage, not only with baby should Clive Davis.
(05:17):
I wanted to say something about the fact that when
I first came to Columbia workers, I never really met anybody,
uh hierarchy people. Um, I never knew whether they ever
listened to me. But with Clive it was wonderful because
he introduced me to Tommy Bell and Tommy Bell wrote
(05:39):
all these wonderful songs for the Stylistics and what have you,
and I was in love with all those songs at
that moment in time. You'll never know what it's like
to be a singer. And you hear all these songs,
you can't wait to get in to record them. So
I got a chance to work with Tommy, and Clive
has been on my side, as he mentioned earlier, I've
sunk from him for him on so many occasions, and
(06:02):
it's just a joy to be on the same stage.
We're still hit the claude so indeed, so I'm very
interested in this relationship. The producer artist relationship, you know,
oftentimes can make or break the sound of a track
or an album. Um baby face, first of all, tell me,
tell me the first time you remember hearing Johnny mathis Johnny,
(06:27):
it's Christmas? To me? I mean when Christmas is and
Christmas unless until you hear Johnny saying that, that's when
it's officially Christmas. And it's not until you until that happens,
and um so, and I go all the way back
to when hearing chances are and that was like, really,
(06:49):
it's like the voice of an angel. It's like, you know,
who is this? Why is this? It's like and it was.
It just blew me away from years ago. So to
fine be able to actually go in the studio, it
was nothing that I ever expected what happened in my life.
And then Clive calls me and says, hey, I got
an idea for you. Good. So here you are working. Now,
(07:14):
I'm going to talk talk about you in the third person,
and I apologize for that. Um um, so here you
are working with someone that you've been listening to since
since you were a kid. Um an iconic, legendary voice.
A little bit of pressure going on there, Yeah, a
lot of pressure, but but I felt I felt safe
(07:34):
and uh in the hands with Clive and and a
couple other guys that were on, Jay Landers and John Depp.
They were they were everybody was all teaming up and
they were making sure we would not go the wrong way.
We were gonna make sure that we did it the
right way. I couldn't miss this one up because this
was you know, it's Johnny, tell me about tell me
about some of the discussions and Clive, you know, feel
(07:56):
free to jump in here. In terms of making the
song choices, this Clive said, um, you know very very
much intent on creating news standards. You know, if if
you will tell me about the discussions about about making
the song. Well, the truth is when you work, you
know with someone like Kenny Edmonds, and he and I
(08:19):
met for the first time when I asked him and
l A Read to do the the Ambi Baby Tonight
reduced an album and and they did such an amazing job.
And they had had nineteen number one R and B records,
(08:42):
but never a number one pop record. And we knew
that it was time for Whitney in the third album
to show that she could sing pure urban songs or
songs with the more urban base. They delivered big time.
We got along so well that we launched together this
(09:03):
incredible venture that he and La She had known as
Lafay's Records. And so we went through Usher and TLC
and Tony Braxton and Pink and Outcast. I mean, an
incredible run. So when you deal with his genius what
she is um I had asked when when he was
(09:26):
doing Waiting for Excel, please don't just have different artists.
That Temps score was Stephen Bishop, James Taylor. What you
need in a movie like this is statements for African
American women, so that the songs have got to move
the storyline forward. And in short order he came up
(09:49):
with the first number one puppet that Mary J. Blige
had not gonna cry sitting in my room for Brandy, shoot,
shoot for Whitney Houston. I mean, one after another. So
when he agreed to work on this project, you don't
discuss it, you yes, I suggested, and Johnny and I
went back and forth on the song choices. But once
(10:12):
he had them, you know, you let him do a thing,
and he did it in a remarkable way. You're you're, you're,
you're kind of laughing here a little bit about about
what were those discussions like about the song choice? Hey
do you have me to sing that song? But because
you get knee jerk, you know, you somebothing and you
(10:33):
you've got your own mind about what you do and
how you do it and what have you, and and
it was it was over the years, though my career
is is exactly like that. I've always had some I
don't know what to sing, I mean, you know, I
think stuff. But but the guidance that people give you
(10:57):
and and the revelation these songs. They're new to me.
It's just like you when you listen to something that's
absolutely new. That's the way I hear the song and
I go, I wonder if I can sing that. He's
got some high notes in it. And but that's what
people like Clive. They have an understanding. How does he
(11:19):
know that I can sing that? You know you? You
have no guarantee. And so he puts himself on the
line a little bit by suggesting, but so far, thank you,
and i'd like to I can't. I can't say enough
about this gentleman who lent us his his studio. He
(11:40):
has an incredible studio, recording studio, and he I never
I'm so stupid. I never knew you'd played the guitar.
I didn't singer write Singers don't play guitar. Singers the singers.
I know only things. I can't do anything. Um, but
(12:01):
it was such a joy when he we were in
the studio. He came out with his guitar and he
sat down and job, wait, it's crazy because I know
his music and I was singing, and he has given
himself of the greatest thing that anybody can do for
(12:22):
another person. That's the friendship. He's given me friendship, and
what a joy it is to be with him on
this stage. Tell me, so, you know producers can do
many things for for artists. Yeah, well, but that that
(12:43):
could that could be part of it. Tell me, tell
me a little bit about how Kenny helped you through
the process of making this right. Well, he made me
do it a hundred and fifty times and he I
found out later that he liked my singing. Very important
(13:05):
step one. So naturally he wanted it to be good
because he likes my singing. Okay, we'll do it. We'll
do it till the crows come in, and that's what
we did. We did a lot of takes because he
wanted certain qualities that he heard that sounded like Johnny Mathis.
And sometimes I go in the studio and you know,
(13:28):
you your voices quite what it should be or something,
And when I have you, when you're struggling and you
don't sound like Johnny Mathis, it sounds like somebody else.
But he was wonderful. He I would sing something and
I thought, I can't sing it any better, and he said,
I know you can't, but you can see it differently.
(13:49):
It's an English lesson too okay dramatically once they're Was
there a particular song that that you worked on where
you knew at that point that this partnership would work,
was what was was? Was there one song that sort
(14:10):
of stood out where was like, yep, this is this
is going right? The all the songs become a blurer
after a while, and all you remember is whether you
achieved what you were after at that song. Um. The
minute I heard the playback on the first song that
I did, where he kept suggesting that I do it
(14:34):
over again and again and again and again, I was hooked.
I said, I'll do it till Lacas come in, you know,
because he knows what he wants. But I've been doing
this for so many years with so many people who
never gave their opinion and never said anything to me,
and I was always on my own, and I was
just guessing, I'm a singer. I'm not you know, I'm
(14:56):
not a producer and what I mean, so I all
I heard it was what I thought was good. But
they are sitting there listening to me as fans as
well as big technicians, and what happen, and so it
was a joy to be with them. It was a
joy to work that hard and to get the results.
Sometimes you work hard don't get the results, but this
(15:19):
time we did it. Yeah, yeah, Kenny, tell me, Um,
the first time you started listening back to these to
these tracks, what did you what were you hearing from
from him? Were you hearing something different, something better, something
more than you might have imagined when I listened to
(15:39):
the track? Yeah, yeah, as yeah, as you're listening, as
you're starting to record and you're listening to this stuff
back and getting used to working with Johnny. The first
moment that that Johnny started singing, and uh, we were
just like, that's Johnny mathis. And that was the best
thing about it is like you know, it was Johnny
mathis something you have to worry about, Like you know, now, Johnny,
(16:02):
you're you're eighty eight two. I was almost ad in
a year two. I think there's the first day comming.
So so you gotta wonder, you know, at um, at
at some point you're thinking, Okay, is he gonna have
the same voice? Is he gonna be he looks the same,
(16:22):
but is he gonna sound the same? And m and
he walked in and he started singing, and it was
like that's Johnny Mathis. It was this the same beautiful
voice that that I grew up listening to it, and
I and I almost every day I stopped myself from saying,
can you sing like Winter Wonderlands? Just thinking that sing
(16:44):
Um And uh, I didn't. I didn't ask him that.
But the other, the other part of it was that Um,
that Johnny, he's just like sunshine walking in into a
room because as you can see, you's he's funny as hell,
and he's and he's he is this person all the time.
And you wouldn't expect that from chances are you just silly?
(17:12):
That's the trick, the silly gran Um. But he's so
funny and and such one of the loveliest people I've
ever met in my life. He's this is a person
that is um that God has blessed him with such
a spirit and and there's a reason why he has
that voice, because God gave it to him and and
(17:34):
God also gave him this beautiful spirit. And I wish
everybody knew him the way that I know, because you know,
he just brings happiness to you when he walks in
the room. He's that guy, He's amazing. We we listened.
We listened to the you know, the first track on
the record, Hallelujah, and I was surprised that you had
not recorded that song previously, because it seems to me,
(17:56):
of the many songs on the record, that one was
somehow before you to sing. But that just goes to
show you that keep reiterating it. I'm just a singer.
I don't know what I should sing. So these people
that like, they're so important in my life, that's so important,
(18:22):
I'd still be singing, you know, I don't know what
I'd be singing. But I just am so excited about
this new album because it brings me up to date.
You know. Let me come on now, I'm eighty two
years old. You know, you what's he gonna sing? And
(18:45):
that's sort of the way things are. I need help.
And I've had the best possible with Clive Davis in
my life. I mean, it has been the most wonderful thing.
Every time I kind of have a lull in my career,
he calls and said, how do they like this thing? For?
You know, everybody in the world, that's what they do,
(19:06):
and and I get a boost in my career. Very important.
Thank you Clive for all the years. I've got a
picture of Clive and I when we were both twelve
or something like that. I've got it over there. But
there as all of these things, Um, you have to have,
(19:29):
uh for career. There's so many singers that I've heard
that are absolutely incredible, but nobody's ever heard them, and
it's just it's not fair, of course, but that's the
way things are. So I've had to have all of
these people helping me along the way, suggesting me for
(19:49):
things to try, and then I'll try anything. You know.
They have knowledge that I don't have, and I understand that.
My dad beat it into my head using you to
go with. My dad was my best pal in the world.
He said, come on, son, this is what we're gonna do.
He was always that way, inclusive yet seven kids. He
(20:10):
and my mom worked hard all the time, but he
still had time for me. He suggested after I was
twelve years old, it's just sun that why don't we
take some voice lessons? And I said, Dad, I can sing.
He said, yeah, I know, but and anyway, that's kind
(20:31):
of Dad I had. He was just a wonderful human
being and I'm fortunately he lived long enough to share
in my success, he and my mom did. And it's
all because of these people like this, because all I
do is saying, is there is there something in a song?
(20:51):
When Kenny and and Clive were picking out songs and
and going through them with you, is there something in
a song? What does the song have to have to
catch your her? You never know until you sing it.
I've turned down the Lord's player, you know, for you
you have to sing it first. You have to sing it.
(21:12):
Yeah and uh. And sometimes I've fought, like everybody else,
I don't want us sing that song. That's a terrible song.
And then I sing it and it sounds fine. No, no,
no problems. So I don't know. I'm a singer, so
let me let me read it. I want to read
(21:32):
you a quick quote. Um, the gentleman who wrote you
raised Me Up? Now you Raise Me Up? Has been
done by many many artists in many different languages, And
he said, Johnny Mathis has one of those instantly recognizable
voices of America that is endured and been loved for
over half a century. I grew up listening to him,
and to think, out of all the songs he could
(21:54):
have chosen for this special album, that something I'd written
would have this honor. Well, it's something for which we
songwriters lived, and God bless the song writers my efforts
(22:15):
at writing. Client, I'm gonna take this moment, okay, a
little unscheduled spontaneous because um one of the songs that
I came up with an obviously with my background with
Whitney Houston. UM, I was so enamored at the time
(22:36):
she did Bodyguard, And when I first saw the film,
there was only one song in it, and I said,
you can't do that. People won't know why she needed
a bodyguard just to have a straight talking thriller. So
I convinced Kevin Costner for more songs to be placed
(22:57):
in the film. And there's one song. I sent it
to Kevin after I had heard it from the composers. Uh.
He loved it and it plays an important role in
the Bodyguard film. The composers are here, and because they're
here today, first let me introduce you to Judd Friedman
and Alan Bridge, the composes. So you know, sometimes I
(23:29):
think there's I think there's one thing that that occasionally
gets lost when talking about about your career, and that
is you are one of the first artists, the earliest
artists to embrace the concept of an album as a
body of work as opposed to you know, it's very
much a singles business in the fifties, and and you
(23:50):
embraced the idea of songs as a collection. Can can
you talk about that a little bit? I think it
has First of all, uh, the gentleman who signed me
to my contract, George Vatkin Columbia Records, was the head
of jazz at the time, and he was accustomed to
(24:11):
presenting his artists with an album of songs. And I, well,
I didn't think I had enough pyrotechnics vocally to warrant
making a single record. I thought they well, I don't
know what I thought, but they had there been something
that I didn't have. I thought that in order to
(24:34):
succeed as a singer, I was going to have to
have two, three, four songs that people would listen to,
because most of the songs that I sang in those
days were pretty much songs. You know that the words
were kind of romantic, and they weren't we good romantic.
(24:54):
They turned out well, anyway, I need I needed something
that wasn't jazz, and it wasn't whatever was going on
at the time. Uh so all the luck that I've
had along the way getting introduced to the right people,
(25:16):
especially Columbia Records, because they were they were interested in
quality as opposed to big hit records that they didn't
happen any and so they were willing to wait until
whatever possibilities I had as an artist went until it happened.
(25:36):
And there's so many things that have to be in place,
you know, when you have a career, Uh, you just
don't do it all. You're you know, you're you're wonder
a little element of it. And and I'm so grateful
to all of the people, and especially the gentleman who
signed me to my record contract, Georgia Varkin, who was
(25:58):
the gentlest, kindest, most wonderful, intelligent Armenian man. And you
and you signed that first contract in nineteen with Columbia Records,
and you're still with Columbia Records. Um. Um, what is
having a home like that in a sense, First of all,
(26:20):
it's rare. Um. I've been told by somebody at like
a company that my tenure with him has been the
longest of any of the artists. And so that's all
I know. And I'm ignorant in that respect that I
don't know any other thing other than Columbia Records being
my home. That's and there's always been somebody there who
(26:44):
has cared enough about me. And let's face it, it's
not just your records. I haven't had a lot of
hit records. I had a few, but but you have
to have all the time, you know, to be thought
of all the time. Lities people, but they've hung in
there with me, and that's what you have to have.
(27:06):
You have to have all sorts of developments going along.
And I've been very lucky, been healthy. Right from the beginning.
I was involved in athletics and so that helped a lot.
I didn't really plan it. It just that's what you
do when you're a kid and you have no money.
You did go and run around the track. You know,
(27:34):
when they're young, Jazz musicians in particular are told two
in some way, no matter what the instrument is, to
find their voice. And I'm wondering, because you know, Kenny
was talking about the moment that you started singing. It
was it was Johnny Mathis, it was that voice. How
how did you find your voice? My dad was a singer,
(27:56):
but he had seven kids, and he had to work
all the time, he and my mom did. One day,
he came home with this piece pile of wood it
looked like and we here this four room basement flat
that we lived in. There were nine of us because
we had two of our relatives staying with us at
the time, so the nine people in four rooms. And
(28:19):
he sat down after fiddling around with this pile of
wood for hours and hours and hours, at about two
o'clock in the morning, we heard this song and it
was my dad playing the piano. So from that time on,
I sat next to my dad and sang with him,
(28:40):
and he taught me songs. And that was the most
wonderful thing that ever happened to me. But my dad
was my pal. He was like my best buddy in
the world. We went fishing together and but but he
did that to all his kids. But I took I mean,
I really loved him. He was he was a great
right And he's sang he's saying just like me, I
(29:03):
sound like my dad. So fair warning, we're gonna ask
for just a couple of questions from the house here,
um in a minute. But speaking of your father, you've
talked often about about the good fortune of growing up
in San Francisco in the nineteen fifties, and and and
some of the great particularly jazz artists that were coming
(29:23):
through San Francisco at that time. Tell us about some
of the artists that you saw when you were young. Well,
my older brother Clem and older sister Marguerite used to
go to the jazz clubs. There were a couple there was.
I used to go to the Black Hawk, which was
a famous jazz club in San Francisco. And I had
(29:46):
a buddy who played saxophone, and I would go to
his rehearsals and sit there. I was a guy about
twelve thirteen, and I listened and watch all of these
famous people come through, people like Dizzy Gillespie, H Garner,
Oscar Peterson, Miles Davis, on and on and on. And
(30:10):
I knew these people from the time I was twelve
and thirteen years old, and when I finally started to
sing and make records, and I see them on the tour,
you know, and hey, I remember you as I used
to sit at the rehearsals and listen to them all
(30:33):
uh play their instruments and sing and what have you.
I've been blessed in so many ways, just good luck.
I was so lucky. I was lucky to have a
dad like my dad who took me to the black Hawk.
And and because you couldn't go there I was a kid,
you couldn't go there. They served booze and the dad
would take me and we sit in the back and
(30:55):
they listened to all these extraordinary people. Syrevon Elephants, Joel singing,
Billy Exstein became one of my best pals. He's I
heard your little ship head when I was and nothing
like a mentor, but yeah, the gods have been so
(31:19):
kind to me. And and I'm still, you know, blessed
to have a recording at my age. You know, it's
still everybody sort of said, oh, guy's nice. So and
it sounds pretty good. I'll say, do we have a
question or two from the house, Yes, sir, right here.
I told a friend of mine I was coming to
see you today, and he said to make sure to
(31:40):
ask you about your first manager, Helen Nogan. How you
met her. Helen was the co owner of the black Hawk,
which was a those famous fat club in San Francisco
at the time and really probably has remained that of course,
there aren't any jazz clubs left anymore, I don't think.
But Helenoga was. She was our median and I had
(32:05):
been kind of used to meeting people who spoke different languages.
But she was quite a character. She was part owner
of the club. And she took me by the hand
one time when I was about thirteen and fourteen and said, kid,
and she had a mouth on her boy. She said,
(32:28):
you're gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna make you a star.
And she was so abrasive about her conversation when she
talked to me. And then she had to meet my mom,
and my mom said, John, you tell that woman you're
not her, So I'm your I said, mom, Mom, that's
(32:49):
just the way she is. So I had to go
through just trying to keep those two people in my
life together. And Beverly, how do you know? And Beverly
her daughter, well, Bev was on my side all the time.
Bever Lies me, yeah, well, yes, right there. Stories that's
(33:13):
a good question write in the book. I have been
told so many times that if I don't do it,
they will get it wrong, you know, and and so
many things that people have imagined about me, you know,
just the most far fetched that you could ever think of.
(33:35):
So yeah, eventually I will. I mean, I've sometimes I
amazed myself that certain things you have to do in life,
and some it takes me a little bit longer than
most people, I think, But I am gonna you have
there's a catalyst that you have to have whenever you
(33:56):
do anything. You have that but right people, at the
right time and the whole thing, And I'm gonna make
it happen because i really want the book to to
to tell about the reality of what I've gone through.
And it's a it's it's exciting and wonderful, but it's
(34:16):
not like some people think. But along the way, I
must say this, and I don't mind to be so
loo quscious, but there's so many things that are part
of my life that is that are absolutely necessary if
you're going to succeed. There's so many people who have
(34:40):
so much talent and they've never been able to be recognized.
And I always keep that in the back of my mind,
how lucky I am. But I've had so much help.
I've had a lot of luck. I met people like
Clive Davis, I met that baby face here has has
sat and listened to me screech in the morning, you know,
(35:00):
because he's been right there helping me along. And I
couldn't ask me anyone more capable of doing what he
does than him, because he sings like an angel. He's
got clever lyrics. He, to my amazement, played the guitar
(35:24):
and probably some other things that I haven't you know,
found out about him. But that's what you have to have.
If you're lucky enough to have it, and it falls
at the right time in your life, good things will happen.
Speaking of having the right team to bring this back
around to to the album. When they first came to
you with the idea of the Great New American Songbook, Well,
(35:48):
what was it? What was your first reaction? Well, you know,
going up as I did, they listening to that whole
and serve on out. It's so and all these people
like that and that don't hear that music anymore. So,
And I've been I discovered golf about forty years ago,
and that's what I do. I come off the road,
(36:11):
you know, doing my concerts, and I were under the
golf course. So I haven't heard any music on the
radio because there's no radio anymore. You can't find stuff,
So I just didn't know what I should have known.
It would probably have helped me and save me a
lot of problems. But now I'm in tune and and
(36:36):
and connected again thanks to Clive Davis. I keep reminding
him how connected he is at at our age and
have gone and started when we started, and we're still
excited about what we're doing. Thank you, and thank you, baby, Clive.
I'm gonna, um, yes, I'm gonna I'm gonna give you
(37:01):
the last word. Um, if you could put Johnny Mathis
in context in in in American popular music, all right,
I'll do that after I I say um spontaneously that
there are a very few albums that one daigns to
play each cut the way that we played today. Uh.
(37:25):
In my career, I did it with each Whitney Houston album.
I did it with Santana's Supernatural, and I did it
with Rod Stewart's The Great American Soul Book originally, And
to keep an audience attention from a rap point of view,
(37:45):
to play each cut and to know that it's taking hold, um,
you gotta do it rarely so that uh, in choosing
to do it today, we're doing it because we feel
the album is so special. Um, it's not that it's
going to come out and we're releasing single f two
(38:06):
singles so that you um and and speaking to you
as an audience. Uh, we're hoping that you're so taken
with this album apart from your feeling from Johnny, because
Johnny here is co starring with the copyrights, Johnny here
is endorsing these copyrights, reinterpreting these copyrights to make them standards,
(38:32):
and so from an attraction point of view, this album,
every song in this album is a wonderful song interpreted
and reinterpreted through the work of Kenny and with Johnny.
So we're very dependent on you to spread the word,
whether it be through the web, whether it be any
(38:54):
other way that a special, great traditional pop album, but
are refreshing traditional pop album, a creative traditional pop album,
a traditional pop album that has respect for new material
that can grow into standards. And so in summary, Johnny
(39:18):
matthis is at the top of the pantheon of old
time artists without question. I mean you find from a
female point of view that the three in my opinion,
I've just had a documentary coming out actually, um this
weekend as well on my life and I've had there.
(39:40):
These two gentlemen raised the Premier the other night and
will be available on Apple and UM. When asked being interviewed,
who were the three greatest singers in your lifetime? They
are to me Aretha, Frank Pupa strikes that with you
(40:02):
still when you talk about male artists in no order,
but showing with all of the great singers in a
lifetime there were three. There are Frank Sinatra, Tony Pettitt
and the great Johnny Mathis. Ladies and gentlemen, Clive Davis,
(40:27):
Kenny Edmonds and Johnny Mathis. Thank you, gentlemen. I'm still
blown away by Clive Davis's power of recall every track,
every artist he's ever worked with, still seemingly at the
tip of his fingers. The album is a result of
(40:47):
classic record making in a way that really rarely happens anymore. So,
first of all, I encourage you to listen to Johnny
Mathis Sings the Great New American Songbook. I would also
encourage you to go back and listen to Johnny mathis
is earliest material that is the finest example of the
state of pop music in the late nineteen fifties and
(41:08):
very early nineteen sixties. So that's your required listening for today.
Now we're coming to you with new episodes every week.
We're on all the social platforms, so let's keep the
conversation going at Grammy Museum. If you're planning to visit
Los Angeles, I do hope you'll visit us at the
Grammy Museum. Our website, grammy museum dot org has all
(41:32):
the information on our activities, our programs, and our exhibits.
And finally, a big thanks to the Required Listening team
Jason James, Justin, Joseph Kittrick, Kern's, Jim Kennella, Lynn Sheridan,
Miranda Moore, Callie Wiseman, Jason Hope, Chandler Mais, Nick Stump,
and everyone at How Stuff Works. Until next time, I'm
(41:52):
Scott Goldman.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com