May 3, 2025 • 27 mins
The Catholic Church is no stranger to scandal and controversy, but in January of 897 the institution was home to a new and unique scandal that put the garden variety tales of adultery and financial corruption to shame. Listen in to learn what drove Pope Stephen VI (also sometimes called Pope Steven VII) to dig up one of his predecessors and put the corpse of another Pope on trial.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Fellow ridiculous historians Catholic and non Catholic alike. Thank you
so much for tuning into this weekend's classic episode. I
am Ben. That's our super producer Max Noel.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
There's a.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Lot of Catholicism in the news recently, Yes.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Or a hat or whatever, Yeah, whatever you like, it's true.
We've got a conclave, a real life conclave going down
as we speak, the process where in a new pope
is selected ORIP Pope Francis, he's the good pope. Many
have described him ass or maybe that's just me, but yeah,
it's kind of a big deal.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Yeah, and tune into our episode on the Prophecy of
the Popes from our peer podcast stuff they don't want
you to know where. Yeah, we go deep into some
lore of the Catholic Church, one of the most important,
I would say, one of the most important spiritual and
(01:00):
geopolitical entities on the planet as we speak. They're no
stranger to scandal and controversy and back in oh gosh,
what was it twenty eighteen? Now you and I learned
about a thoroughly ridiculous courtroom situation.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Absolutely the title says it all, and it reminds me
of like a classic film or something from this fifties.
A dead pope goes to court. It's like mister Smith
goes to Washington or something like that.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
Yes, so listening folks join us to learn what drove
Pope Stephen the sixth, also sometimes called Pope Stephen the seventh.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
We could just say Pope Stephen is just funny in
and of itself. I don't know why, let's just call
him Pope Steve.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
While we're at Pope Pope Steve sounds like a guy
who has his street name. Anyway. True story. One time
this dude dug up one of his predecessors who had
long passed from this mortal veil, and put the guy's
body on trial.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Not weird at all, totally normal.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Nothing weird and super norms. Let's roll the ridiculous tape.
Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Okay, Usually when
(02:39):
we begin the show, we like to have some sort
of bit or some sort of reference, some sort of
tangential thing. But this story is so strange that I
feel like we I don't know how we open. I'm
just laughing to myself, Man, are you at a loss
for bits? I'm usually I've got a couple of back
(03:00):
pocket bits chomping at the bit, right, Uh, but I'm
not bitter about this. Hey, hey you're Nol.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
I am Nol, and you, sir, are Ben the bitmeister bowling.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
Oh, thank you, thank you Nol. And we are joined
with our super producer, Casey Pegram.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
I think none of us are Catholic, right.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
I went to a Catholic mass like a couple times
when I was a kid, and I thought it was
very interesting. There was like a like a dude with
a robe waving around this like thing with smoke coming
out of sane what a thurible? Really?
Speaker 1 (03:36):
Yeah, I think that's the word. I yeah, the instance. Yeah.
So it's funny you mentioned that the first time I
ever saw a Catholic Mass, I was living in Guatemala
and my Spanish wasn't very good, let alone my Latin.
So I was completely out of my element, and I
thought it was fascinating, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
So you're probably wondering why we're mentioning Catholicism here, ridiculous historians.
It's because our show today takes us to a very
very strange episode in Catholic history, and for a long time.
On another show we do stuff they want you to know,
(04:17):
we had a running character that you used to do
no knowl which was the Pope. Yes, yes, that's it.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
Welcome. But then I kind of came to my attention,
maybe just through my own paranoia, that maybe it's not
okay to do a voice for the Pope that sounds
like a weird, strangulated muppet.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
Well maybe, I mean maybe it had its time. Yeah,
but I thought that was some good work there. Who's
that guy that does that podcast?
Speaker 2 (04:46):
You made it weird? Pete Holmes, that's Casey on the Case. Yeah,
Pete Holmes. I saw him do stand up in La
Prisidents Forget one time, and he had a really good
bit about how as a culture we have this bizarre
blind spot in our idea of racism, and it's for
Italians because it's like somehow okay to go like, hey,
(05:06):
it's a mea Mario, like a pizza pie or whatever,
that's okay, but any other you know, doing an Asian
voice or something or that is not cool. And he
made it. I don't know. I thought it was a
really good point.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
That is a good point. I wonder if it holds
the same in other countries where English is the primary language. Like,
do people in the UK if you're listening to the UK,
do you folks do the Italian voice? Is it just
an American thing? Are we the jerks?
Speaker 2 (05:34):
I think we might be.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
We might be, but we're not going to be as
big of jerks as the popes of the past have been.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Oh man, the past popes, my friend. So here's the thing.
There was a time when what we know is the
Holy Roman Empire was fresh and young and the new thing, right,
And this was in the eighth and ninth centuries. And
a really great article from all that is Interesting dot
Com called Better Noah Pope Stephen the sixth the Grave
(06:06):
Robber outlines quite beautifully the life and times of this
papal jerk.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Yeah. Yeah, this period of time, it's just so rife
with corruption. That's that's the best way to say it.
And there's a term that you and I learned that
later historians would use to to describe this period between
like eighth and ninth century AD, Holy Roman Empire, right, Yeah,
it was the pornocracy, right, pornocracy. Yeah, So you know,
(06:36):
google that if you wish, But yeah, we can't guarantee
that it won't get you in trouble on your work computer.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
But we're not talking about Stephen the sixth right away,
not just yet. No, we're talking about another pope named Formosis,
which is a great pope name.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
I feel like it's a It sounds like a sith
lord's name in Star Wars and be like Darth Formosis.
So Formoses name aside, he had quite a history with
the Catholic Church. Eventually he becomes pope, but before he
becomes pope, we have to talk about what happened when
he was a cardinal bishop, right, because he had sown
(07:14):
the seeds of his later problems in his time as
a cardinal bishop.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Yeah, because he was also a very very successful missionary,
and those Bulgars that you mentioned earlier, he was converting
them to Catholicism left and right. And he was actually
accused by the sitting pope at the time, who was
a guy named Pope John the eighth, of breaking a
law of the Roman Catholic Church that prevented anyone from
(07:42):
being a bishop in more than one place. And because
of his missionary work that had sort of could have
been perceived as having happened, and so he actually was excommunicated.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
He was he was excommunicated by John the eighth because
the room was that he was a bishop of Porto
in eight sixty four, but then also a bishop in
Bulgaria a little bit later on. Right.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
Yeah. And the thing was the reason that that law
had been passed, and I think it was a pretty
new law, was because we talked about that those fractured
little fiefdoms throughout Europe, those were a problem because there
was division within the church. There was division culturally and ideologically,
and the Roman Calataris did not want to feed into
that anymore by having any one man in the church
(08:31):
have too much power over too many areas, because that
could cause a problem.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
No one man should have all that power. Casey, can
we cut to that clip real quick? No one, I
think it's appropriate. We don't know whether Foremosis would have
dugged that song, but maybe he would. We don't know
much about the guy's musical taste. So he ultimately is,
as you said, Noel excommunicated because he had wronged John
(08:59):
the a And on April nineteenth of eight seventy five,
Pope John the eighth called a synod a synod and
requested that all these other papal officials returned to Rome.
It's just a fancy word for this meeting of the clergy. Yeah,
it's like like a brain trust, like some sort of
like think tank. Yeah yeah, and there can be different
(09:23):
versions of it. But remember that word because it becomes
very important later. So formosis still in France, says ah,
I'm not going to go to that. So since he
doesn't comply, he's removed from the ranks of the clergy.
He's excommunicated. And the reason given is that he is
excommunicated because he deserted his diocese without the permission of
the pope and that double bishopping, double dipping bishop. I
(09:47):
like that double dipping bishop.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
And he also openly aspired for the papacy whatever that means,
like he campaigned for it or what. I don't know.
It seems like he was railroaded quite a bit by
dudes that did not like the fact that he was
kind of better than them. I don't know in terms
of just like his goodness, because I'm not reading a
whole lot of corruption, actual corruption on his side. On
his side, it seems like it's most of the other
(10:11):
the other folks just like a lot of politicking very much.
So I sort of like that that Second Star Wars prequel.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
The Second Star Double Dip and Bishop. So this is
announced in eight seventy two. In July, it's formally announced
that Formosis and several other people are excommunicated, But a
few years later, in eight seventy eight, the sentence of
(10:39):
excommunication was withdrawn after Formosis promised to never again return
to Rome, nor to exercise his priestly functions ever for
the rest of his life.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
He agreed, but it didn't. Isn't this when John the
Eighth got murdered?
Speaker 1 (10:57):
Yeah, John the eighth assassinated, right, But how did it?
How did it happen? Was it one of those shady
like may have been an accident or was it pretty
clearly a murder?
Speaker 2 (11:06):
Oh no, no, I don't. I do not think he was.
He was beloved by the people because he was first
poisoned and then someone bashed his head in with the
hammer because the poison was taking too long. So then
you know, then we end up in this kind of
like really rough and tumble period where there's like several
popes in between him, and ultimately when our guy Formosis
(11:30):
becomes the pope. So immediately after this we have a
quick turnaround of popes who got Marinus the first and
then is quickly followed by a guy named Saint Adrian
the third, and he kind of thinks better of Foremostis
and overturns all of those penalties that he had to
he had to suffer, right, so he's now allowed. Not
(11:50):
only is he allowed to come back to Rome and
keep practicing what he's doing, he actually becomes the pope,
the next pope and eight ninety one.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
Yes, he has unanimously elected the pope on October sixth,
eight ninety one, and this ushers in a weird period
for the pope. So votes for the pope ben we
do not unless we become cardinals in the church.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
So if Formosis was so unpopular at the point where
he got excommunicated and banned for life, but then was
unanimously elected pope, it really just goes to show there
were some serious like factions. I mean, this whole idea
of the splintered loyalties is on full display here. And
I guess after our guy John the eighth got you know,
club to death, the tide turned in his favor and
(12:42):
he served as pope for I think a good five years,
and in that five years he accomplished some pretty cool stuff.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
Yeah, I believe we mentioned earlier. He was pope from
October sixth, eight ninety one until his death in eight
ninety six. And he didn't get a particularly great situation,
you know what I mean when he became pope. And obviously,
as you can tell from the timeline, he did not
serve as pope for very long, but he did try
(13:10):
his best to navigate the chaotic geopolitical issues of the day.
The problem is, he became engrossed in some real beefs
with some powerful enemies. One of the most prominent is
a guy named Guy the third of Spiletto, the Holy
(13:30):
Roman Emperor, and started as sort of a just like
a somewhat distant struggle for control, but then it was
building quickly into open warfare.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
Yeah, yeah, it's true. And this guy, this guy, Guy
of Suspilato, was on the other end of that open warfare,
and Formostus actually ended up having to a mass An
army to go to war with him. And when he
did this, as he was doing this, rather he died,
he got paralyzed, was quote struck by paralysis acrony of
(14:06):
this article in all that is interesting dot com. And
he passed away, and so guys, problems were resolved, and
the problems were We talked about earlier how there was
a lot of vying for control and cash flow from
these Holy Roman brothels, and that was kind of at
the center of this. See there's the thing I said
that foremosts didn't really seem to have too much dirt
(14:28):
on him, but it did seem like he was still
kind of running the numbers and playing the game in
terms of like where this money went. But I think
he just didn't give the right bishops the cash, and
he became sort of persona on grata for the ones
that were amassed behind guy.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
And so Foremoses dies. The next pope is a guy
named Pope Bona Face the sixth, and this pope is
a native of Rome, and he is pope in April
of eight ninety six. He was mainly elected because there
were a ton of riots right after the death of
(15:06):
Pope Formosis, and after a pontificate of fifteen days, he
either died of the gout or he was forcibly ejected
to make way for a character named Stephen the Sixth,
who he mentioned at the beginning. Thanks for sticking around, folks.
We got there. We did get there. A lot of
(15:27):
ground to cover between there and here.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
But yeah, Stephen the sixth is sort of our Papal
Looney tune in today's episode. He had a lot of
problems with Formosas in the first place, because he did
not like the way he interpreted doctrine, that idea of
the way either the Godhead and all of that. Ben,
can you give us a little more on that.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Yeah, it's like we said earlier, there's a difference here
in the nature of the Holy Spirit, how it relates
to the Trinity, how it relates to the Godhead, and
without getting too far in the weeds here, it sounds
very technical, but it's an argument that they took very
very very very seriously. Gravely seriously, one might say. But
(16:09):
the truth is that we don't know too much about
Stephen's early life. We don't know what his name originally was,
We don't know what yu was born, but we we
do know a little bit about his life. It seems
that he was the son of a priest. When he
you know, when he attained adulthood, he went into the church,
(16:30):
but it was actually Formoses who made him a bishop,
and he was made a bishop under pressure from Guy
three of Spiletto.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
Ah. Yes, So here's how it goes. Stephen the sixth
becomes the pope and for whatever reason, like I don't
even understand what the point of this is. I mean,
I think that's the whole seed of ridiculousness in the
story is he was so angry with Foremosis, who, as
we've mentioned, has died at this point, that he decided
(17:03):
it would be a good idea to hold another one
of those synods. Right synod you say, synod synon doesn't matter.
Synod sounds very sci fi, So I'm gonna say like that.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
There we go.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
So he calls one of those sort of like a
king's moot in RPG games, and he has the corpse
of said pope dug up and dressed up in the
papal robes and sat in the papal throne and tried
(17:33):
for all of those things that he got reversed, remember
the excommunication and the whole like being a bishop in
two places and all that. Stephen did not forget those things.
And he's here's the thing, you can look at it
one of two ways. That he was legitimately conscientiously outraged
about these things, and then that he would not let
(17:56):
those heresies stand, or he trying to get a little
juice from all of those political factions that were anti Formosis,
if we know there were many, and there's a couple
more reasons I want to point out before we get
into the next bit of the story as to why
that was.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
If you're listening to this by a computer or a desktop,
or you're on your phone, some we're safe, go ahead
and pull up this fantastic painting by Jean Paul Lawrence
called Pope Formosis and Stephen the Seventh. That's the same
guy as Stephen the sixth is a whole different thing,
but that's the original title of the painting. So, Noel,
what are those other reasons?
Speaker 2 (18:38):
Well, in addition to the whole brothel debacle and you know,
a bacle, yeah, exactly, he also he just got embroiled
in a lot of geopolitical disputes that resulted in people
gaining and losing a lot of money. One was he
actually intervened in Constantinople, where a patriarch named Photius the
(19:01):
First had been ousted, and also the son of Emperor
Basil the First, a guy named Stephen had taken his place.
It's a different Stephen.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
He also refused to reinstate people who have been ordained
by the patriarch, by Photius the first.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
That's right, Okay, Ben, so I sort of glossed over.
We both a little bit glossed over his kind of
disagreements with Guy the third of Spilato, who was the
Holy Roman Emperor. That's an interesting thing about the Holy
Roman Empire. Ride you have it. You have this Holy
Roman Emperor and then you have the pope, and they're
kind of like the pope is sort of the the uh,
the spiritual thing, and then the emperor is the political
(19:42):
head of state or whatever. But he wanted to overthrow
Guy the third of Spilato, so he actually supported factions
that were going against him, and he actually convinced Arnolf
of Corinthia to invade Rome and take con of Italy
from Spilato, so you know, and then Spilato was kind
(20:07):
of pals with our boy Stephen the sixth. So there
we go.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
Does that?
Speaker 2 (20:12):
Does that? Someone up in a nutshell?
Speaker 1 (20:13):
I think we're getting close. I think that's that's good, just.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
In terms of why someone would be so angry with
this man after he was already dead, that he decided
to dig up his rotting bones from the ground, dress
him up in this pageantry and shove him in a
chair and try him for heresy.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
Yeah, let me paint some more of the picture here
about how this trial actually wins. And I hope you
guys can hear the air quotes when I say trial.
So there's a great article on this beliefs from National
Geographic Vengeance at the Vatican, the Cadaver's Nod, and this
is seen as the lowest point in the continual chaos
(20:52):
of ninth century Italy. So there's another player that enters
the field here who maybe doesn't get as much mentioned
as they should. Guy the third we mentioned he had sons, right,
He had a son named Lambert, and Lambert ended up
teaming up with the Pope Stephen to create this pr
(21:17):
farce because Lambert said, when he was talking to Stephen
the sixth, he said, we have to condemn Formoss's actions
and tarnish his reputation, and it has to be in
public so that his followers can see it. And it
has to feel official. So it has to happen under
(21:38):
canon law and be held before the papal curia and
Roman nobility. And we're gonna have Formoss himself attend. So Noel,
as you said, they dressed him up, they exhumed him,
they put him on trial. They even had someone who
was supposed to speak for you, like as a lawyer. Yeah,
against those accusations. However, the poor Sap didn't have much
(22:00):
luck because Pope Stephen was just continually screaming at this corpse.
It's a very undignified way for a pope to act,
at least I would think so. In the modern day.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
Now it's super just macabre too. And of course, you know,
like you had a chance, poor Sap. He was found
guilty and they punished him with something called damnascio memorii,
which means condemnation of memory in Latin, and it basically
means that his tenure as pope was like men in
(22:34):
black mind erased from history books. Well, only it doesn't
seem to have taken because we're talking about.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
It right, Erased from history. Thou shalt nut speak his name,
And there are all these different desecrations they did to
his body too. They tore his papal vestments off, they
cut off the three fingers on his hand that he
used to concentrate.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
You know, the ones.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
Yeah, and they threw his body in a river, and
later I think a monk or a fisherman found it.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
I think the river thing even came a little later.
They originally just like buried him in the ground somewhere
like like an unmarked grave, and then Pope Jonathan the
sixth thought better of it and was like, you know what,
that's too good for that. So and so let's dig
him up and just toss him in the in the
in the drink.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
Yeah, I'm glad you mentioned that, because our sources show
us that first, yeah, he was dressed in common peon clothed,
and then buried in an unmarked grave, a pauper's grave.
And then the stories that they decided that wasn't good enough, right,
so they dug him up again and threw him in
the river. However, it seems like that part the story
(23:39):
about a monk or a fisherman pulling the pope from
the river might be a myth. But we do know
the story of the body doesn't stop there. This is
seen as an act of very bad taste to almost
everybody involved. You know, it's kind of a wake up
call where they're thinking, we're getting ridiculous. I know, we
(23:59):
want kill each other, but this is this is a
little too far.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
It's a bit much.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
And so Stephen six ends up imprisoned a few months afterwards,
and he is strangled to death in jail. And two
years after that, another pope reinstates Pope Formosis and bans
any further trial for dead popes. So it came to
pass that Pope Formosis is buried in eighteen ninety seven
(24:27):
with full Christian honors, which seems like a heck of
a ride.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
Yeah, it's sort of not. I mean, I guess it's
a pretty good consolation prize. But guy really went through
the ringer.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
I just have this vision in my head that I
can't I can't erase the memory. Oddly enough, or this
this fanciful notion of people having to sit and watch
this because they had they had to sit and observe
it trial.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
And do you think they were into it or do
you think they are like, ye, I don't know about this,
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
I mean, surely it's like a warning to some of
Moses's followers.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
Yeah, I guess because again, like he definitely had some
and you know, there's nothing that I was able to
find about them, like doing some sort of mass execution
of anyone that was in his camp or whatever. So
maybe this was their way of, like, you know, let
this be a warning to you for emotions.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
Yeah, and you know what, man, We're We're not perfect,
no one is. But I can say that we have
never put a corpse on trial, you know what I mean?
So go us.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
Yeah, you know, I'll tell you, Ben, the fact that
we're not perfect is what makes the show work.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
Let's hope. So, and we hope you enjoyed hearing this story.
We've talked about it off air, folks. We could probably
do an entire podcast on popes a popecast, but that's
that's a different show, right. Also, we're trademarking popecast. If
that's not already a thing, we just called it. We
called dips. Does that count sure? If we called DIBs
(25:54):
on air.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
DIBs is a thing, that's a thing, that's those rules
surrounding it. Yeah, it's part of the Geneva convention. Yeah,
there we go.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
So dibbs on popecasts. But write to us and let
us know what strange stories you learned about when you've
read up on papal history, because we assure you there
are multitudes of strange stories about popes. You can find
us on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter. We highly recommend our community
page Ridiculous Historians, where you can meet and speak with
(26:24):
some of your fellow listeners.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
There is a popecast by the way. Damn it very
disappointing installment of Casey on the case.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
It was too you know what. Popecast was too good
to not be a thing. Of course, it was like
a podcast chorus. We flew too close to the sun.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
And if you want to fly too close to the
podcast sun too. You don't want to do any of
that social media stuff, you can write us an email
at Ridiculous at HowStuffWorks dot com, but most importantly, please
join us for our next episode where we talk about
spooky Filipino vampire alien monster creatures that haunt the Hills.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
I am so excited. I'm so excited. Thank you to
super producer Casey Pegrim. Thanks to our research associate for
this episode, Eve's Jeffcoat. Thanks to Alex Williams who can
posed this track, and Hey, Noil, thanks to you.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
He're looking at you. Ben. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio,
visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen
to your favorite shows.
Fellow ridiculous historians Catholic and non Catholic alike. Thank you
so much for tuning into this weekend's classic episode. I
am Ben. That's our super producer Max Noel.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
There's a.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Lot of Catholicism in the news recently, Yes.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Or a hat or whatever, Yeah, whatever you like, it's true.
We've got a conclave, a real life conclave going down
as we speak, the process where in a new pope
is selected ORIP Pope Francis, he's the good pope. Many
have described him ass or maybe that's just me, but yeah,
it's kind of a big deal.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Yeah, and tune into our episode on the Prophecy of
the Popes from our peer podcast stuff they don't want
you to know where. Yeah, we go deep into some
lore of the Catholic Church, one of the most important,
I would say, one of the most important spiritual and
(01:00):
geopolitical entities on the planet as we speak. They're no
stranger to scandal and controversy and back in oh gosh,
what was it twenty eighteen? Now you and I learned
about a thoroughly ridiculous courtroom situation.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Absolutely the title says it all, and it reminds me
of like a classic film or something from this fifties.
A dead pope goes to court. It's like mister Smith
goes to Washington or something like that.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
Yes, so listening folks join us to learn what drove
Pope Stephen the sixth, also sometimes called Pope Stephen the seventh.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
We could just say Pope Stephen is just funny in
and of itself. I don't know why, let's just call
him Pope Steve.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
While we're at Pope Pope Steve sounds like a guy
who has his street name. Anyway. True story. One time
this dude dug up one of his predecessors who had
long passed from this mortal veil, and put the guy's
body on trial.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Not weird at all, totally normal.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Nothing weird and super norms. Let's roll the ridiculous tape.
Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Okay, Usually when
(02:39):
we begin the show, we like to have some sort
of bit or some sort of reference, some sort of
tangential thing. But this story is so strange that I
feel like we I don't know how we open. I'm
just laughing to myself, Man, are you at a loss
for bits? I'm usually I've got a couple of back
(03:00):
pocket bits chomping at the bit, right, Uh, but I'm
not bitter about this. Hey, hey you're Nol.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
I am Nol, and you, sir, are Ben the bitmeister bowling.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
Oh, thank you, thank you Nol. And we are joined
with our super producer, Casey Pegram.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
I think none of us are Catholic, right.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
I went to a Catholic mass like a couple times
when I was a kid, and I thought it was
very interesting. There was like a like a dude with
a robe waving around this like thing with smoke coming
out of sane what a thurible? Really?
Speaker 1 (03:36):
Yeah, I think that's the word. I yeah, the instance. Yeah.
So it's funny you mentioned that the first time I
ever saw a Catholic Mass, I was living in Guatemala
and my Spanish wasn't very good, let alone my Latin.
So I was completely out of my element, and I
thought it was fascinating, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
So you're probably wondering why we're mentioning Catholicism here, ridiculous historians.
It's because our show today takes us to a very
very strange episode in Catholic history, and for a long time.
On another show we do stuff they want you to know,
(04:17):
we had a running character that you used to do
no knowl which was the Pope. Yes, yes, that's it.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
Welcome. But then I kind of came to my attention,
maybe just through my own paranoia, that maybe it's not
okay to do a voice for the Pope that sounds
like a weird, strangulated muppet.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
Well maybe, I mean maybe it had its time. Yeah,
but I thought that was some good work there. Who's
that guy that does that podcast?
Speaker 2 (04:46):
You made it weird? Pete Holmes, that's Casey on the Case. Yeah,
Pete Holmes. I saw him do stand up in La
Prisidents Forget one time, and he had a really good
bit about how as a culture we have this bizarre
blind spot in our idea of racism, and it's for
Italians because it's like somehow okay to go like, hey,
(05:06):
it's a mea Mario, like a pizza pie or whatever,
that's okay, but any other you know, doing an Asian
voice or something or that is not cool. And he
made it. I don't know. I thought it was a
really good point.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
That is a good point. I wonder if it holds
the same in other countries where English is the primary language. Like,
do people in the UK if you're listening to the UK,
do you folks do the Italian voice? Is it just
an American thing? Are we the jerks?
Speaker 2 (05:34):
I think we might be.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
We might be, but we're not going to be as
big of jerks as the popes of the past have been.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Oh man, the past popes, my friend. So here's the thing.
There was a time when what we know is the
Holy Roman Empire was fresh and young and the new thing, right,
And this was in the eighth and ninth centuries. And
a really great article from all that is Interesting dot
Com called Better Noah Pope Stephen the sixth the Grave
(06:06):
Robber outlines quite beautifully the life and times of this
papal jerk.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Yeah. Yeah, this period of time, it's just so rife
with corruption. That's that's the best way to say it.
And there's a term that you and I learned that
later historians would use to to describe this period between
like eighth and ninth century AD, Holy Roman Empire, right, Yeah,
it was the pornocracy, right, pornocracy. Yeah, So you know,
(06:36):
google that if you wish, But yeah, we can't guarantee
that it won't get you in trouble on your work computer.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
But we're not talking about Stephen the sixth right away,
not just yet. No, we're talking about another pope named Formosis,
which is a great pope name.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
I feel like it's a It sounds like a sith
lord's name in Star Wars and be like Darth Formosis.
So Formoses name aside, he had quite a history with
the Catholic Church. Eventually he becomes pope, but before he
becomes pope, we have to talk about what happened when
he was a cardinal bishop, right, because he had sown
(07:14):
the seeds of his later problems in his time as
a cardinal bishop.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Yeah, because he was also a very very successful missionary,
and those Bulgars that you mentioned earlier, he was converting
them to Catholicism left and right. And he was actually
accused by the sitting pope at the time, who was
a guy named Pope John the eighth, of breaking a
law of the Roman Catholic Church that prevented anyone from
(07:42):
being a bishop in more than one place. And because
of his missionary work that had sort of could have
been perceived as having happened, and so he actually was excommunicated.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
He was he was excommunicated by John the eighth because
the room was that he was a bishop of Porto
in eight sixty four, but then also a bishop in
Bulgaria a little bit later on. Right.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
Yeah. And the thing was the reason that that law
had been passed, and I think it was a pretty
new law, was because we talked about that those fractured
little fiefdoms throughout Europe, those were a problem because there
was division within the church. There was division culturally and ideologically,
and the Roman Calataris did not want to feed into
that anymore by having any one man in the church
(08:31):
have too much power over too many areas, because that
could cause a problem.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
No one man should have all that power. Casey, can
we cut to that clip real quick? No one, I
think it's appropriate. We don't know whether Foremosis would have
dugged that song, but maybe he would. We don't know
much about the guy's musical taste. So he ultimately is,
as you said, Noel excommunicated because he had wronged John
(08:59):
the a And on April nineteenth of eight seventy five,
Pope John the eighth called a synod a synod and
requested that all these other papal officials returned to Rome.
It's just a fancy word for this meeting of the clergy. Yeah,
it's like like a brain trust, like some sort of
like think tank. Yeah yeah, and there can be different
(09:23):
versions of it. But remember that word because it becomes
very important later. So formosis still in France, says ah,
I'm not going to go to that. So since he
doesn't comply, he's removed from the ranks of the clergy.
He's excommunicated. And the reason given is that he is
excommunicated because he deserted his diocese without the permission of
the pope and that double bishopping, double dipping bishop. I
(09:47):
like that double dipping bishop.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
And he also openly aspired for the papacy whatever that means,
like he campaigned for it or what. I don't know.
It seems like he was railroaded quite a bit by
dudes that did not like the fact that he was
kind of better than them. I don't know in terms
of just like his goodness, because I'm not reading a
whole lot of corruption, actual corruption on his side. On
his side, it seems like it's most of the other
(10:11):
the other folks just like a lot of politicking very much.
So I sort of like that that Second Star Wars prequel.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
The Second Star Double Dip and Bishop. So this is
announced in eight seventy two. In July, it's formally announced
that Formosis and several other people are excommunicated, But a
few years later, in eight seventy eight, the sentence of
(10:39):
excommunication was withdrawn after Formosis promised to never again return
to Rome, nor to exercise his priestly functions ever for
the rest of his life.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
He agreed, but it didn't. Isn't this when John the
Eighth got murdered?
Speaker 1 (10:57):
Yeah, John the eighth assassinated, right, But how did it?
How did it happen? Was it one of those shady
like may have been an accident or was it pretty
clearly a murder?
Speaker 2 (11:06):
Oh no, no, I don't. I do not think he was.
He was beloved by the people because he was first
poisoned and then someone bashed his head in with the
hammer because the poison was taking too long. So then
you know, then we end up in this kind of
like really rough and tumble period where there's like several
popes in between him, and ultimately when our guy Formosis
(11:30):
becomes the pope. So immediately after this we have a
quick turnaround of popes who got Marinus the first and
then is quickly followed by a guy named Saint Adrian
the third, and he kind of thinks better of Foremostis
and overturns all of those penalties that he had to
he had to suffer, right, so he's now allowed. Not
(11:50):
only is he allowed to come back to Rome and
keep practicing what he's doing, he actually becomes the pope,
the next pope and eight ninety one.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
Yes, he has unanimously elected the pope on October sixth,
eight ninety one, and this ushers in a weird period
for the pope. So votes for the pope ben we
do not unless we become cardinals in the church.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
So if Formosis was so unpopular at the point where
he got excommunicated and banned for life, but then was
unanimously elected pope, it really just goes to show there
were some serious like factions. I mean, this whole idea
of the splintered loyalties is on full display here. And
I guess after our guy John the eighth got you know,
club to death, the tide turned in his favor and
(12:42):
he served as pope for I think a good five years,
and in that five years he accomplished some pretty cool stuff.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
Yeah, I believe we mentioned earlier. He was pope from
October sixth, eight ninety one until his death in eight
ninety six. And he didn't get a particularly great situation,
you know what I mean when he became pope. And obviously,
as you can tell from the timeline, he did not
serve as pope for very long, but he did try
(13:10):
his best to navigate the chaotic geopolitical issues of the day.
The problem is, he became engrossed in some real beefs
with some powerful enemies. One of the most prominent is
a guy named Guy the third of Spiletto, the Holy
(13:30):
Roman Emperor, and started as sort of a just like
a somewhat distant struggle for control, but then it was
building quickly into open warfare.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
Yeah, yeah, it's true. And this guy, this guy, Guy
of Suspilato, was on the other end of that open warfare,
and Formostus actually ended up having to a mass An
army to go to war with him. And when he
did this, as he was doing this, rather he died,
he got paralyzed, was quote struck by paralysis acrony of
(14:06):
this article in all that is interesting dot com. And
he passed away, and so guys, problems were resolved, and
the problems were We talked about earlier how there was
a lot of vying for control and cash flow from
these Holy Roman brothels, and that was kind of at
the center of this. See there's the thing I said
that foremosts didn't really seem to have too much dirt
(14:28):
on him, but it did seem like he was still
kind of running the numbers and playing the game in
terms of like where this money went. But I think
he just didn't give the right bishops the cash, and
he became sort of persona on grata for the ones
that were amassed behind guy.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
And so Foremoses dies. The next pope is a guy
named Pope Bona Face the sixth, and this pope is
a native of Rome, and he is pope in April
of eight ninety six. He was mainly elected because there
were a ton of riots right after the death of
(15:06):
Pope Formosis, and after a pontificate of fifteen days, he
either died of the gout or he was forcibly ejected
to make way for a character named Stephen the Sixth,
who he mentioned at the beginning. Thanks for sticking around, folks.
We got there. We did get there. A lot of
(15:27):
ground to cover between there and here.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
But yeah, Stephen the sixth is sort of our Papal
Looney tune in today's episode. He had a lot of
problems with Formosas in the first place, because he did
not like the way he interpreted doctrine, that idea of
the way either the Godhead and all of that. Ben,
can you give us a little more on that.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Yeah, it's like we said earlier, there's a difference here
in the nature of the Holy Spirit, how it relates
to the Trinity, how it relates to the Godhead, and
without getting too far in the weeds here, it sounds
very technical, but it's an argument that they took very
very very very seriously. Gravely seriously, one might say. But
(16:09):
the truth is that we don't know too much about
Stephen's early life. We don't know what his name originally was,
We don't know what yu was born, but we we
do know a little bit about his life. It seems
that he was the son of a priest. When he
you know, when he attained adulthood, he went into the church,
(16:30):
but it was actually Formoses who made him a bishop,
and he was made a bishop under pressure from Guy
three of Spiletto.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
Ah. Yes, So here's how it goes. Stephen the sixth
becomes the pope and for whatever reason, like I don't
even understand what the point of this is. I mean,
I think that's the whole seed of ridiculousness in the
story is he was so angry with Foremosis, who, as
we've mentioned, has died at this point, that he decided
(17:03):
it would be a good idea to hold another one
of those synods. Right synod you say, synod synon doesn't matter.
Synod sounds very sci fi, So I'm gonna say like that.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
There we go.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
So he calls one of those sort of like a
king's moot in RPG games, and he has the corpse
of said pope dug up and dressed up in the
papal robes and sat in the papal throne and tried
(17:33):
for all of those things that he got reversed, remember
the excommunication and the whole like being a bishop in
two places and all that. Stephen did not forget those things.
And he's here's the thing, you can look at it
one of two ways. That he was legitimately conscientiously outraged
about these things, and then that he would not let
(17:56):
those heresies stand, or he trying to get a little
juice from all of those political factions that were anti Formosis,
if we know there were many, and there's a couple
more reasons I want to point out before we get
into the next bit of the story as to why
that was.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
If you're listening to this by a computer or a desktop,
or you're on your phone, some we're safe, go ahead
and pull up this fantastic painting by Jean Paul Lawrence
called Pope Formosis and Stephen the Seventh. That's the same
guy as Stephen the sixth is a whole different thing,
but that's the original title of the painting. So, Noel,
what are those other reasons?
Speaker 2 (18:38):
Well, in addition to the whole brothel debacle and you know,
a bacle, yeah, exactly, he also he just got embroiled
in a lot of geopolitical disputes that resulted in people
gaining and losing a lot of money. One was he
actually intervened in Constantinople, where a patriarch named Photius the
(19:01):
First had been ousted, and also the son of Emperor
Basil the First, a guy named Stephen had taken his place.
It's a different Stephen.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
He also refused to reinstate people who have been ordained
by the patriarch, by Photius the first.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
That's right, Okay, Ben, so I sort of glossed over.
We both a little bit glossed over his kind of
disagreements with Guy the third of Spilato, who was the
Holy Roman Emperor. That's an interesting thing about the Holy
Roman Empire. Ride you have it. You have this Holy
Roman Emperor and then you have the pope, and they're
kind of like the pope is sort of the the uh,
the spiritual thing, and then the emperor is the political
(19:42):
head of state or whatever. But he wanted to overthrow
Guy the third of Spilato, so he actually supported factions
that were going against him, and he actually convinced Arnolf
of Corinthia to invade Rome and take con of Italy
from Spilato, so you know, and then Spilato was kind
(20:07):
of pals with our boy Stephen the sixth. So there
we go.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
Does that?
Speaker 2 (20:12):
Does that? Someone up in a nutshell?
Speaker 1 (20:13):
I think we're getting close. I think that's that's good, just.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
In terms of why someone would be so angry with
this man after he was already dead, that he decided
to dig up his rotting bones from the ground, dress
him up in this pageantry and shove him in a
chair and try him for heresy.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
Yeah, let me paint some more of the picture here
about how this trial actually wins. And I hope you
guys can hear the air quotes when I say trial.
So there's a great article on this beliefs from National
Geographic Vengeance at the Vatican, the Cadaver's Nod, and this
is seen as the lowest point in the continual chaos
(20:52):
of ninth century Italy. So there's another player that enters
the field here who maybe doesn't get as much mentioned
as they should. Guy the third we mentioned he had sons, right,
He had a son named Lambert, and Lambert ended up
teaming up with the Pope Stephen to create this pr
(21:17):
farce because Lambert said, when he was talking to Stephen
the sixth, he said, we have to condemn Formoss's actions
and tarnish his reputation, and it has to be in
public so that his followers can see it. And it
has to feel official. So it has to happen under
(21:38):
canon law and be held before the papal curia and
Roman nobility. And we're gonna have Formoss himself attend. So Noel,
as you said, they dressed him up, they exhumed him,
they put him on trial. They even had someone who
was supposed to speak for you, like as a lawyer. Yeah,
against those accusations. However, the poor Sap didn't have much
(22:00):
luck because Pope Stephen was just continually screaming at this corpse.
It's a very undignified way for a pope to act,
at least I would think so. In the modern day.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
Now it's super just macabre too. And of course, you know,
like you had a chance, poor Sap. He was found
guilty and they punished him with something called damnascio memorii,
which means condemnation of memory in Latin, and it basically
means that his tenure as pope was like men in
(22:34):
black mind erased from history books. Well, only it doesn't
seem to have taken because we're talking about.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
It right, Erased from history. Thou shalt nut speak his name,
And there are all these different desecrations they did to
his body too. They tore his papal vestments off, they
cut off the three fingers on his hand that he
used to concentrate.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
You know, the ones.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
Yeah, and they threw his body in a river, and
later I think a monk or a fisherman found it.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
I think the river thing even came a little later.
They originally just like buried him in the ground somewhere
like like an unmarked grave, and then Pope Jonathan the
sixth thought better of it and was like, you know what,
that's too good for that. So and so let's dig
him up and just toss him in the in the
in the drink.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
Yeah, I'm glad you mentioned that, because our sources show
us that first, yeah, he was dressed in common peon clothed,
and then buried in an unmarked grave, a pauper's grave.
And then the stories that they decided that wasn't good enough, right,
so they dug him up again and threw him in
the river. However, it seems like that part the story
(23:39):
about a monk or a fisherman pulling the pope from
the river might be a myth. But we do know
the story of the body doesn't stop there. This is
seen as an act of very bad taste to almost
everybody involved. You know, it's kind of a wake up
call where they're thinking, we're getting ridiculous. I know, we
(23:59):
want kill each other, but this is this is a
little too far.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
It's a bit much.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
And so Stephen six ends up imprisoned a few months afterwards,
and he is strangled to death in jail. And two
years after that, another pope reinstates Pope Formosis and bans
any further trial for dead popes. So it came to
pass that Pope Formosis is buried in eighteen ninety seven
(24:27):
with full Christian honors, which seems like a heck of
a ride.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
Yeah, it's sort of not. I mean, I guess it's
a pretty good consolation prize. But guy really went through
the ringer.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
I just have this vision in my head that I
can't I can't erase the memory. Oddly enough, or this
this fanciful notion of people having to sit and watch
this because they had they had to sit and observe
it trial.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
And do you think they were into it or do
you think they are like, ye, I don't know about this,
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
I mean, surely it's like a warning to some of
Moses's followers.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
Yeah, I guess because again, like he definitely had some
and you know, there's nothing that I was able to
find about them, like doing some sort of mass execution
of anyone that was in his camp or whatever. So
maybe this was their way of, like, you know, let
this be a warning to you for emotions.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
Yeah, and you know what, man, We're We're not perfect,
no one is. But I can say that we have
never put a corpse on trial, you know what I mean?
So go us.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
Yeah, you know, I'll tell you, Ben, the fact that
we're not perfect is what makes the show work.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
Let's hope. So, and we hope you enjoyed hearing this story.
We've talked about it off air, folks. We could probably
do an entire podcast on popes a popecast, but that's
that's a different show, right. Also, we're trademarking popecast. If
that's not already a thing, we just called it. We
called dips. Does that count sure? If we called DIBs
(25:54):
on air.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
DIBs is a thing, that's a thing, that's those rules
surrounding it. Yeah, it's part of the Geneva convention. Yeah,
there we go.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
So dibbs on popecasts. But write to us and let
us know what strange stories you learned about when you've
read up on papal history, because we assure you there
are multitudes of strange stories about popes. You can find
us on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter. We highly recommend our community
page Ridiculous Historians, where you can meet and speak with
(26:24):
some of your fellow listeners.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
There is a popecast by the way. Damn it very
disappointing installment of Casey on the case.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
It was too you know what. Popecast was too good
to not be a thing. Of course, it was like
a podcast chorus. We flew too close to the sun.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
And if you want to fly too close to the
podcast sun too. You don't want to do any of
that social media stuff, you can write us an email
at Ridiculous at HowStuffWorks dot com, but most importantly, please
join us for our next episode where we talk about
spooky Filipino vampire alien monster creatures that haunt the Hills.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
I am so excited. I'm so excited. Thank you to
super producer Casey Pegrim. Thanks to our research associate for
this episode, Eve's Jeffcoat. Thanks to Alex Williams who can
posed this track, and Hey, Noil, thanks to you.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
He're looking at you. Ben. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio,
visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen
to your favorite shows.
Ridiculous History News
Hosts And Creators
Ben Bowlin
Noel Brown
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
Ridiculous History
History is beautiful, brutal and, often, ridiculous. Join Ben Bowlin and Noel Brown as they dive into some of the weirdest stories from across the span of human civilization in Ridiculous History, a podcast by iHeartRadio.