April 2, 2025 • 32 mins
Zak Brown is the CEO of McLaren Racing, the second-oldest Formula 1 team. When he joined in 2016, McLaren was in a difficult spot — lagging behind in race wins, sponsorships, and morale. Brown set out to transform the team by elevating their in-house racing technology and fostering active collaboration. He led the team to win the F1 Constructors’ Championship last year, their first one after more than 25 years. In this episode, Oz visits McLaren's headquarters to speak with Brown about how the team made their comeback, and what they’re doing to keep their edge this season.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to tech Stuff. This is the story. Each week
on Wednesdays, we bring you an in depth interview with
someone who has a front row seat to the most
fascinating things happening in tech today. A conversation with the
person who has the front row seat to end all
front row seats, Zach Brown, CEO of McLaren Racing. If
(00:24):
you've ever tuned into the Netflix show Drive to Survive,
you may be familiar with Brown, but for the uninitiated,
he's the man with the ultimate responsibility for McLaren's F
one team, the strategic force behind the on track magic
of the drivers Lando Norris and Osco Piastre, and the
feats of engineering that are McLaren F one race cars,
(00:48):
currently the fastest on the track. I met with Zach
Brown at the team's headquarters outside of London, and what
I encountered was pretty different from your usual corporate office.
A place surrounded by green fields, a lake and sweeping
sci fi glass structures the McLaren Technology Center.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
The best way to describe it is it looks like
Star Wars.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
This is Zach Brown.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
The building was designed by Sir Norman Foster now Lord Foster,
who also went on to do the Apple building, which
I think was inspired by their visit here, except those
are substantially larger.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
The doughnuts in Kupertino.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Yeah, and more expensive for sure.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
You drive past the beautiful lake and then you come in.
You enter what we call the boulevard.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
The boulevard, that's what they call the room filled with
trophies and iconic McLaren vehicles from the archives of Formula
one's second oldest team. History and innovation exist in parallel here,
including recent history.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
This is the moment that McLaren dreamed of.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Lando Norris Winds the Abby Dabbi Dran Prix McLaren World
champions of twenty twenty four. They win the Constructors. As
soon as you walk into the McLaren Technology Center, you're
confronted with a car that one Formula One's Constructor's Championship
last year. That's one of the two world championship titles
in the sport, and a prize McLaren had last won
(02:18):
in nineteen ninety eight, more than twenty five years ago.
Since he joined McLaren in twenty sixteen, Zach Brown has
transformed the team into a powerhouse of effective teamwork and
motor racing technology. For him, the two are intrinsically connected.
I sat down with Zach to understand how if you're
(02:39):
a kind of casual F one fan and you're watching
Drive to Survive, it feels like most of the action
takes place on track, right, But what do you not
understand about the sport if you don't understand what happens
here at the technology center.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
The technology in these Formula One cars is amazing. Most
people maybe don't have full appreciation of how much technology
or in these race cars, and how much technology there
is running the race cars, and how much technology there
is in designing and building the racing cars.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Who are definitely cutting edge in every area.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
We have a thousand people to put two race cars
on the track.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
That always blows.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
People's mind a way is how large these teams are.
Everything is bespoke and then during a race weekend, the
race is actually run from both at the racetrack but
also back here in mission control. So if you think
of NASA, you have those that are in the rocket,
but then you've got on the ground the mission is
(03:43):
being run, and that same thing takes place here in
a Formula One team.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
So there's life communication from here to the racetrack during.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
Each absolutely simulation communication data will have probably sixty people
here at a race weekend as if they were at
the racetrack. So if it's three o'clock in the morning
here because we're racing in China, then it's three o'clock
in the morning here and feed everyone Accordingly.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
You're notorious for answering at your emails that at all hours,
so I guess that partly explained.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
So we're a twenty four to seven business, that's for sure.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Back in the beginning of twenty twenty three, you guys
were lagging and then you had this extraordinary win in
the Constructors Championship twenty twenty four and first place. Now
in twenty twenty five, What were some of the work
that happened here that allowed that extraordinary sporting turnaround?
Speaker 3 (04:35):
It was people primarily. I mean, we did have some
new technologies that came online or wind tunnel I finally
got up and running. We'd been renting one out of
the country, which was suboptimal logistically and things of that nature.
But the biggest thing was people. I put in Andrea
Stella in charge of the racing team. He then reorganized
(04:55):
it with the same people that gave us the racing
car at the beginning of twenty two, pretty much the
same group that gave as a World Championship car twelve
months later. So it shows what a difference great leadership
can make. And he just set out clear goals, objectives,
got the morale and the culture. Everyone row in the
same direction, and it was just amazing what a team
effort it was.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
When you win a race, how much is the driver
and how much is the car?
Speaker 2 (05:20):
Well, it has to be both at this level.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
But a great driver can't drive around a car that's
not capable of winning. So I guess you'd say car first.
But four teams all have cars that can win. So
the difference between those eight drivers, if you'd like, is
old driver. So you definitely need both, but you can't
make up for a race car that's not up for it.
(05:44):
So that's what everyone focuses on. Here is our job
to get the two best drivers in the business first
and foremost.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
We need to gem a car capable of winning.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
How much time has the driver spend here quite.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
A bit their simulation marketing days, so I would say
they're in three days before a Grand Prix and three
days after a Grand Prix, because you spend as much
time debriefing as you do preparing for a race weekend.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
And you had this kind of life changing experience. Was
in nineteen eighty seven when you met.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
Mario ANDRETI to tell that story.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
I went to Long Beach Grand Prix, which is the
second time I had gone, and at that point I
wanted to.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
Pursue a career in racing.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
And I got the chance to meet Mario and I
asked him how you get started in racing? That was
the one and only question I was brave enough to
ask him, and he said karting, And there happened to
be an ad in the race program for Jim hole
Cart Racing School, and went and bought a goat kart
and that was the start of the racing.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Was Mario's a little bit of advice there?
Speaker 1 (06:44):
Fine? If we had a guest on the show recently
who'd been on the Voice and I had use their
proceeds to fund their first reporting trip to Syria. But
you also had a game show enabled Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
I was on Wheel of Fortune teen week when I
was thirteen and won the first two rounds, which were
a bunch of watches and went on to sell those
at a pawnshop. And so after I got my little
bit of advice for Mario, I cashed in my winnings,
got a go kart and the rest is history.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
And when did you first get involved with Formula one
itself on the professional side?
Speaker 3 (07:19):
My first ever sponsorship was with McLaren twenty years ago.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
And how have you seen the sport change, in particular
driven by technology in those twenty years technology.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
It's the most technically advanced sport in the world. The
data that we're pulling off these cars is amazing. The
way we're using over three hundred centers on the race.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
Car and where are they on the car?
Speaker 2 (07:43):
Everywhere?
Speaker 3 (07:44):
There's nothing about the race car we don't know. We
pulled down one and a half terabytes of data a weekend.
We run about fifty million simulations. There's seventy five thousand
parts on a Formula one car and you change about
eighty percent of the non homoligated part of the racecar
over the course of the years.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
So we live in a literally in a prototype world.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
You mentioned NASA and Mission Control earlier that it's not
far off, it's.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
Not far off at all, but they're not necessarily trying
to get to the moon faster.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
We're trying to get to the moon faster every weekend.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
And I know you like to bring in sort of
outside council from you know, the likes of Michael Jordan
and you know, incredible athletes. On the tech side, I
mean you mentioned the Apple guys came here and were
inspired by the office. You have partnerships with companies like
Dell who have their you know, the name on the car.
How do you maintain McLaren's edge on the tech side with.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
Our partners, and we have some of the most unbelievable
technology companies in the world, Google, Dell, Cisco, the list
go on of you know, the leaders in their industry.
So we work very closely with them. That's one of
the things that when we look for partners long ago,
it was a sticker on a race car. Now it's
all about collaboration, work together, developing technologies together, storytelling around
(09:04):
how we use their technology, and we want to use
their technology because they're best in class to make us
go faster.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
So we have a lot of great technology.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
Partners and you'll see over turn Racing who is in
charge of the development of the car.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Here a variety of people.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
I mean, ultimately the technical team reports into Andrea Stella.
We have technical directors three or four that are the
best in their disciplines, chief designer, manufacturing, aerodynamics, vehicle performance.
So they all come together at a very senior level
(09:42):
to build the racing car. So it's those respective groups
that about seven hundred and fifty people that are actually
responsible for, in one way or another, touching the race car.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
When we come back, Zach Brown tells us just how
influential F one regulations are on the final design of
the race cars. Welcome back. I had the opportunity to
(10:23):
sit down with Zach Brown at the McLaren Technology Center
and pick his brain about the strategy behind running an
F one team. So of course I had to ask
Brown about McLaren's team principal Andrea Stella, a highly regarded
F one engineer whose promotion may have been a turning
point for McLaren Racing.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
I wanted him to run the racing team last time around,
but he felt he wasn't ready. And he's a gentleman
who doesn't lead with his ego. He leads with what
he thinks he's capable of and where he thinks he
can achieve. And I guess you would say we disagreed
because I thought he was ready four years ago.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
He didn't think he was ready till two years ago.
Speaker 3 (11:02):
We'll never know, but what's clear is he's been ready
since he accepted and he's done a fantastic job.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
When people look back at this time and write the
case study on twenty twenty four and hopefully twenty twenty five,
what will they focus on in terms of what the
changes that Andrews Seller brought to the team were.
Speaker 3 (11:22):
Getting everything to come together. Everything feeds performance on the
racing car. So Andrea is responsible for the technical side
of the business. But you need to have a great
communications department so you have huge fan base. We have
a cost cap now, so living within a fiscal challenges,
(11:43):
you need to spend wisely, So your finance department plays
a massive role. So that's the people that don't touch
the race car. But it all feeds into the race car.
So you need to get every department being the best
they can be, and then it's collaboration. It's team work.
Getting a thousand people all row in the same direction.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
You mentioned the cost cap. One of the fascinating things
about this sport is how many restrictions and regulations there are.
I mean there's this sort of phrase that constraint drives creativity.
But can you explain how the rules from the governing
body impact the car do you see on the track
(12:24):
and how technology what the interplay of technology is to
make sure that the car, the message of the track
is the best that can be made within the restrictions
imposed by the governing body.
Speaker 3 (12:34):
Yeah, you've got very sophisticated rules on specification of the car.
I think the engineer's interpret if it says you unless
it says you can't do it, then they get into
a mindset of well then you can do it. So
I think that's where the creativity comes in, this interpretation
of the rules. And then from a business point of view,
(12:56):
we have very few rules compared to other sports. Technically
we probably have the most sophisticated set of rules, but
from a business standpoint we almost have no rules. So,
in one aspect is wild while west compared to other
sports that have very specific dos and don'ts around players
and managers and things of that nature.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
How much do these rules drive the vehicleusy on the track?
Speaker 3 (13:21):
Completely one hundred percent. I mean you got to be
within the rules, and the tests and regulations around the
legality of the cars is immense. Last race you saw
the two Ferraris and a Alping disqualified.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
That wouldn't have been up to anything they shouldn't have been.
But you run the margin of.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
Error so close that if you get a little bit
wrong that one car was a little underweight and one had.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
A little bit too much skidware.
Speaker 3 (13:47):
So it is very difficult because you're trying to get
to the absolute limit and not go over, and you're
talking about less than a kilo underweight on something that's
eight hundred kilos. But kilo is a p handful of milliseconds.
Ten kilos is three tenths of a second. Entire grid
(14:08):
is covered by a second, so you don't want to
leave any weight on the table. But if you cut
it too close you get disqualified. So the rules definitely
drive what the race cars look like.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
The other fascinating thing is that the number of hours
the car is allowed to actually be on the track
is surprisingly very low. Can you also talk about that
and how why that makes the work that happens here
the technology set, It is important.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
Yeah, so there's a big testing restriction. We only get
three test days to start the year, and you've got
two drivers, so it's very little testing. And you used
to have unlimited testing. So you're effectively what you would
have tested on track fifteen to twenty years ago with
as much testing as you wanted. That's now shifted to
CFD wind tunnel simulation in that order.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
Can you explain each of those concepts, simulation and wind
tunnel on how they apply?
Speaker 2 (15:02):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (15:02):
Yeah, I mean CfDS all computer generated and so it's
a bunch of mathematical equations and aerodynamic flow things.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
Of that nature.
Speaker 3 (15:12):
So it's effectively designing a race car on a computer
and then testing it if you'd like. That'll give you data,
so that's fully in the computer, fully in the computer.
Then you'll turn that into a half scale or so
model of the real race car. You'll stick that in
the wind tunnel where are not allowed through regulation have
(15:33):
a full scale wind tunnel, so it's it's scaled.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Does that mean smaller? Correct?
Speaker 3 (15:37):
And then you have restrictions around how often you can
run the wind tunnel, so you need to make sure
you're confident that what's coming out of CFD is going.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
To work, otherwise you're wasting wind tunnel time.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
And how do they monitor how much you use the
wind tunnel.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
It's all all logged into the FIA, who's our governing body,
so they know how many runs.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
We're doing and for how long.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
You then run the wind tunnel to see if what
you've seen in the computer it you know, you kind
of see in miniature size real life. Then you input
all that data into the simulator. You let the driver
then go drive it and see if they actually can
see the performance that you think you've found in the
in the wind tunnel, and then if you're confident you have,
(16:23):
then you go ahead and manufacture the bits for the
race car. You put it on the race car and
hope the race car feeds back in the same way
your simulation has.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
And what about AI. I mean, we're kind of in
this amazing moment where kind of engineering and design and
like everything seems to be being changed by generative AI.
Is that I guess simulation is AI essentially, But I
mean in a five year view, how much you're thinking
about how these longer term technological trends.
Speaker 3 (16:49):
May Yeah, we have a team that's dedicated to emerging technologies.
We're using AI now, I think you'll never replace the
human because there's something that's called kind of race or
instinct which is needing to really understand the full environment.
I think AI can feed you data and information quicker
to make more informed, less cluttered decisions. But I don't
(17:14):
see a day where AI tells you when depit.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
I can see there being a.
Speaker 3 (17:18):
Day when AI tells you what historically has happened and
therefore give you some data to make a more educated,
quicker decision on We're using AI around marketing, We're using
AI around tire data, so we are leaning in and
it's a culture where people embrace new technologies. I'm personally
someone who gets stuck with what I've been used to
(17:42):
in a bit of a creature, a habit, and what
you need are in a Formula one team or people
that are excited to try something that they've never tried before.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
You had a choice back in twenty sixteen right whether
to join McLaren or f one itself for it, and
you chose McLaren.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
Obviously I wanted to go racing.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
I felt that the Formula one opportunity is awesome as
it was was a little bit of what I'd been
doing for twenty years, just on a bigger scale, where
McLaren offered me the opportunity not only to continue what
I was doing from a commercial standpoint, which I very
much enjoy, but when the lights go out near on pitwall,
(18:17):
you're racing, and that was something that I felt I
had missed from when i'd hung up from driving.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
When you arrived, you said you found this place in disarray.
How did that become clear to you?
Speaker 2 (18:29):
I think it was clear to everyone our results.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
We were ninth in the championship, We had very few sponsors,
we were losing a lot of money. Fans were disgruntled,
employees were disgruntled drivers who were disgruntled. So it wasn't
a happy environment. I think was well documented. We had
challenges at the shareholder level. They had a dispute. So
I think when you've got the very top leadership not aligned,
(18:58):
then that's going to have a trickle down impact on
the organization. And I think it lacked focus, lacked leadership,
and so things started unravel in a very competitive sport.
So fortunately, through changing the leadership team, getting great people
around me, reversing the downward trajectory and the negative momentum
(19:19):
that we had, went about rebuilding the team, and here
we are nine years later, world champions.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
But the first question for you was not about technology
or engineering or even about driver recruitment. It was about
how you work together to the team.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
All about people.
Speaker 3 (19:35):
And we see it in all sports, right You see
some mega teams with all the all stars and the
big names not get it done because they don't work
well together. And then you see the underdogs, which are
always a great story, you know, kind of overachieve and
that's because they came together as a team.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
We were a student of management philosophy or of leadership
or I mean, where did you was the Zach Brown school?
Speaker 3 (19:59):
Just having my my own successful business, which was easier
in some senses because I built the culture from one
employee at a time versus coming into an environment where
it had its own culture and it wasn't a good
place and it was a thousand people. So I think
it's easier to build than to change. But then I've
(20:19):
been around successful people. I've been fortunate as a racing
driver to be around a lot of successful racing team
and not successful racing team. So I think I'm always
pay attention, ask a lot of questions, and think I
went about it just from understanding what good looks like,
what bad looks like. And it's pretty obvious if you
(20:41):
paying attention in your care.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
So you came in and you had to turn around
job on your hands, and you succeeded. But then beginning
twenty twenty three, all of a sudden, it was on
your watch and things weren't going well. How did that
challenge compare to the challenge of coming into place.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
That was worse or a bigger challenge?
Speaker 3 (21:04):
Because when I came in, I didn't create the situation
we were in.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
I knew it was my job to fix it. I
made some changes.
Speaker 3 (21:14):
Top three people that were running the racing team are
no longer here, and so I did identify it.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
I saw it coming.
Speaker 3 (21:23):
I had some pretty brutal conversations over the summer break.
I spotted in June that I didn't like what I
was seeing, and there's about six month lag, and.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
So fortunately at least had comfort.
Speaker 3 (21:38):
I knew why we got into the challenge we were
in and what I thought we.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
Needed to do to get out of it.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
What does it mean for you as a leader? To
pull it off.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
Very proud of everything that the team is done. We've
earned this the hard way.
Speaker 3 (21:54):
Some of our competitors have never had financial challenges, so
they've had the luxury have been able to focus purely
on performance. We needed to focus on economics to be
able to pay for the performance. So I think I
wouldn't have it any other way.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
After the break, we revisit the down to the Wide
twenty twenty four Constructors Championship victory with Zach Brown. Welcome
back to tech stuff. Let's dive into my conversation with
(22:39):
the CEO of McLaren Racing, Zach Brown. I was looking
on Twitter this morning and back in twenty twenty three
there was this sack Zach hashtag, which is hard to
imagine now. And likewise, back at the beginning twenty four,
there was a hashtag Lando nowins, So I can.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
Imagine a new hashtag for those people. It's not appropriate.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
Not for a family friendly, but it must have. You
must have been able to put your arm around him
in a unique way, having dealt without yourself just the
year before.
Speaker 3 (23:14):
Yeah, I mean, at the end of the day, I
think we'd had a couple of chances to win that
we didn't seize the moment. But coming back to you
know where he started as a car or driver, I
think he had some comfort in knowing that he wasn't
winning because the car wasn't yet ready on many occasions,
and I think he's now proven that won't give him
(23:35):
a car that's capable winning to go out and win.
So I think it was frustrating because any Grand Prix
driver wants to win, But I think it didn't dent
his confidence because he knew he wasn't the reason we
weren't winning. It was that we needed that last little
bit out of our race car, which we now have found.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
Going back to started last season, there is a big
scandal around Christian Horner, your your counterpartner a red Bull,
and in the first episode Drives Survive, it looked like
you in a sense smelt blood or when he was
when he was in the middle of that media fire store.
I mean, did you have a sense in that moment,
knowing how important a functional team is as you do,
(24:16):
there might be an opportunity that you hadn't expected.
Speaker 3 (24:18):
Yeah, I mean our sport maybe more so than other sports.
But I want to profess to be an expert on
another sports, So forgive me if I have this wrong
other sports, but there is a destabilized the competition aspect
to this sport, and so I'm sure that happens in
other sports, but here you're fighting for employees, drivers, sponsors.
(24:40):
Media is play a big role in our sport. So
if you can create some tension in other teams or destabilize,
that helps slow the competition down while you're trying to
speed yourself up.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
How much does drives change the sport.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
It's helped grow it immensely. It's created a tremendous amount awareness.
It's shown people that what goes on in the sport,
especially off the track. I think people didn't understand that.
I think are sport's unique in that aspect where you
watch the other majority of the sports, and it's it's
pretty much exclusively concentrated on the field of play, where
(25:18):
our sport off the field is every bit as fascinating
is on the track. And I think that's what Netflix
helped capture.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
On the Constructors, I mean, some people were saying to you,
you know you got this in the bag, Zac, but
you didn't. You didn't agree with them, And indeed, I
mean that that couldn't have been.
Speaker 3 (25:36):
Been closer, couldn't have been Yeah, Atlando not one. We
went in one of the constructors, so we never felt
we had it in the bag. And you can see
how quickly this sport moves. We thought Red Bull would
win every race based on the start of the year,
and then they finished third in the championship. So I
think we're too experienced and been around the block too
much to fall for thinking you have anything in the
(25:59):
bag and the sport, I mean, ultimately we came down
to maybe seven tenths. You know, you have the DRS,
which if you're within a second, which is pretty hard
to defend, especially around Abu Dhabi, and Lando had a
very small lead over Carlos signs he comes in in
the Ferrari does a two point two second pit stop,
(26:20):
so the pressure's on us and we do a two
second pit stop. Howd we done a two point seven
second pit stop, which is not a bad pit stop?
Speaker 2 (26:26):
Then Lando comes.
Speaker 3 (26:27):
Out, Carlos and his DRS probably bassism and then you
don't know if Lando would have been able to get
him back.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
And did you have complete conviction in your team that
in the clutch moment they'll pull it off.
Speaker 3 (26:39):
Yeah, but you never know, driver can overshoot the pitch
you have a wheel gun failure. I mean it's two
point seven second pit stops not a bad pit stop,
and had a lot of confidence, but yeah, of course
you've also got nerves very much at the same time.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
So now it's a twenty twenty five season. How do
you describe McLaren stops the season?
Speaker 2 (27:00):
Almost perfect?
Speaker 3 (27:01):
First and second in China and first and I think
it was ninth in Australia. But we're running first and
second quite a dominant performance.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
But China was hard, hard work.
Speaker 3 (27:11):
So Australia while the conditions were tricky and managing both
drivers when we came up on traffic, things of that nature,
just racing smart.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
But China we had to work hard.
Speaker 3 (27:22):
Saturday wasn't a great day in the sense of landing
and have a great sprint race. Lewis Hamilton and the
Ferrari checked out, so I think we went into Sunday
thinking this is gonna be hard work and it definitely was.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
And George Russell came out and said McLaren have the
can't to win every single race this season. I was
struck by that comment. It's a strange comment for a
rival driver to say, that's.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
Part of the head games and the politics that go on.
Speaker 3 (27:47):
That's a way to put pressure on the team kind
of if you don't win all twenty four then you've
done something wrong and it's a disaster. So that's nothing
more than some of the stuff we spoke about earlier,
where people put pressure on people in different ways to
try and to stabilize it them. So coming out with
what appears to be a nice compliment is actually a
way to apply pressure.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
But nonetheless, you may be right.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
I don't actue've we won't win twenty four races this year.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
The performance the car is obviously extraordinary. There was a
headline Athletic a couple of days ago McLaren's perfect F
one problem dual title contenders and a fast car difficult
to tame. But I guess the premise was, you're an
amazing position. We have two drivers who you know who
could win. What this idea that the car is fast
but difficult to tame? What does that mean?
Speaker 3 (28:37):
You know, anytime you get a car on the limit,
it's going to eventually do something that.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
You know exceeds its limit.
Speaker 3 (28:45):
To the perfect race car, you can still get it
to be tricky to drive when you try and go
eleven tenths. So I think the drivers you know, over
over one lap to extract maximum performance out of the car,
it can be a bit tricky, a bit on edge,
but that's what race cars do and they're.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
On the limit.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
So this is this is another flavor of what you
described earlier with the one key low on the correct
You're always looking for these fine margins and if you
get wrong, you can destabilize you. It can be too
hard to drive, it can be and breach the regulation.
So it's that constant. So that must be very anxiety
And do you see it.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
Is it's a stressful, stressful being on pitwall.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
How do you deal with that?
Speaker 2 (29:29):
Just stay calm. It's nice to being on pitwall next
to Andrea.
Speaker 3 (29:32):
He's very calm and not lett any emotion run in
to your decision making process. Passion, I think is very important.
I think there's a fine line between passion and emotion.
But emotion gets you to make emotional decisions, which is
not the most productive way to go racing.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
And how are you going to manage the challenge of
having two such driver?
Speaker 2 (29:53):
Keep doing what we're doing. They get along great.
Speaker 3 (29:55):
I think everyone's encouraging all of us that we're going
to have some drama ahead of us, so we very
well might, but we haven't yet great communication with the drivers.
They know the rules of the road, they're free to race.
They just need to race each other respectfully. And I
think everyone else is waiting for the bomb.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
To go off, but we're not. We're quite happy.
Speaker 3 (30:16):
And they have both drivers signed up long term, so
they know they're going to be teammates for a long time.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
They get along really, really well.
Speaker 3 (30:22):
Of course they want to beat each other, but I
think you can race fairly and squarely.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
Of course you're good friends Over at Red Bull have
had another rookie starts this season. Is that something you
keep a close eye only more focus internally? I mean,
how much does how much time do you spend monitoring
the vicissitudes of the competition?
Speaker 3 (30:41):
Decent amount, but at the end of the day, there's
not much you can do about it. So it's more
about observing and learning. But you can get obsessed with
your competitors and then you're spending more time on them
than yourselves.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
Being here, you can't help but think about legacy. I mean,
it's just part of this building. And I'm wondering, do
you think about your legacy at McClaren what you would
like it to be.
Speaker 3 (31:06):
No, No, I think there'll be a time and place
for that, But right now I'm very head down and
I feel like it's early early days.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
Ah So now, don't really think about that, but I'm
sure there will at some point.
Speaker 1 (31:20):
But this season, the game is clear.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
One drivers and constructors. That's the that's the goal.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
Zich Brown, thank you, thank you very much. That's it
for this week for tech Stuff. I'm as Voloshin. This
episode was produced by Eliza Dennis and Adriana Tapier. It
(31:49):
was executive produced by me, Karen Price and Kate Osborne
for Caneidis Cote and Katria Novel for iHeart Podcasts. The
engineer was Basil Oxtaby Murdoch wrote our theme song. Join
us this Friday for tech Stuff's weekend tech Cara Price
and I will catch you up on the headlines and
chat with the Washington Posts Garrett da Vinc about the
(32:12):
current landscape in AI. Please rate, review, and reach out
to us at tech Stuff podcast at gmail dot com.
We look forward to hearing from you
Welcome to tech Stuff. This is the story. Each week
on Wednesdays, we bring you an in depth interview with
someone who has a front row seat to the most
fascinating things happening in tech today. A conversation with the
person who has the front row seat to end all
front row seats, Zach Brown, CEO of McLaren Racing. If
(00:24):
you've ever tuned into the Netflix show Drive to Survive,
you may be familiar with Brown, but for the uninitiated,
he's the man with the ultimate responsibility for McLaren's F
one team, the strategic force behind the on track magic
of the drivers Lando Norris and Osco Piastre, and the
feats of engineering that are McLaren F one race cars,
(00:48):
currently the fastest on the track. I met with Zach
Brown at the team's headquarters outside of London, and what
I encountered was pretty different from your usual corporate office.
A place surrounded by green fields, a lake and sweeping
sci fi glass structures the McLaren Technology Center.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
The best way to describe it is it looks like
Star Wars.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
This is Zach Brown.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
The building was designed by Sir Norman Foster now Lord Foster,
who also went on to do the Apple building, which
I think was inspired by their visit here, except those
are substantially larger.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
The doughnuts in Kupertino.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Yeah, and more expensive for sure.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
You drive past the beautiful lake and then you come in.
You enter what we call the boulevard.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
The boulevard, that's what they call the room filled with
trophies and iconic McLaren vehicles from the archives of Formula
one's second oldest team. History and innovation exist in parallel here,
including recent history.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
This is the moment that McLaren dreamed of.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Lando Norris Winds the Abby Dabbi Dran Prix McLaren World
champions of twenty twenty four. They win the Constructors. As
soon as you walk into the McLaren Technology Center, you're
confronted with a car that one Formula One's Constructor's Championship
last year. That's one of the two world championship titles
in the sport, and a prize McLaren had last won
(02:18):
in nineteen ninety eight, more than twenty five years ago.
Since he joined McLaren in twenty sixteen, Zach Brown has
transformed the team into a powerhouse of effective teamwork and
motor racing technology. For him, the two are intrinsically connected.
I sat down with Zach to understand how if you're
(02:39):
a kind of casual F one fan and you're watching
Drive to Survive, it feels like most of the action
takes place on track, right, But what do you not
understand about the sport if you don't understand what happens
here at the technology center.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
The technology in these Formula One cars is amazing. Most
people maybe don't have full appreciation of how much technology
or in these race cars, and how much technology there
is running the race cars, and how much technology there
is in designing and building the racing cars.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Who are definitely cutting edge in every area.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
We have a thousand people to put two race cars
on the track.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
That always blows.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
People's mind a way is how large these teams are.
Everything is bespoke and then during a race weekend, the
race is actually run from both at the racetrack but
also back here in mission control. So if you think
of NASA, you have those that are in the rocket,
but then you've got on the ground the mission is
(03:43):
being run, and that same thing takes place here in
a Formula One team.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
So there's life communication from here to the racetrack during.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
Each absolutely simulation communication data will have probably sixty people
here at a race weekend as if they were at
the racetrack. So if it's three o'clock in the morning
here because we're racing in China, then it's three o'clock
in the morning here and feed everyone Accordingly.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
You're notorious for answering at your emails that at all hours,
so I guess that partly explained.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
So we're a twenty four to seven business, that's for sure.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Back in the beginning of twenty twenty three, you guys
were lagging and then you had this extraordinary win in
the Constructors Championship twenty twenty four and first place. Now
in twenty twenty five, What were some of the work
that happened here that allowed that extraordinary sporting turnaround?
Speaker 3 (04:35):
It was people primarily. I mean, we did have some
new technologies that came online or wind tunnel I finally
got up and running. We'd been renting one out of
the country, which was suboptimal logistically and things of that nature.
But the biggest thing was people. I put in Andrea
Stella in charge of the racing team. He then reorganized
(04:55):
it with the same people that gave us the racing
car at the beginning of twenty two, pretty much the
same group that gave as a World Championship car twelve
months later. So it shows what a difference great leadership
can make. And he just set out clear goals, objectives,
got the morale and the culture. Everyone row in the
same direction, and it was just amazing what a team
effort it was.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
When you win a race, how much is the driver
and how much is the car?
Speaker 2 (05:20):
Well, it has to be both at this level.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
But a great driver can't drive around a car that's
not capable of winning. So I guess you'd say car first.
But four teams all have cars that can win. So
the difference between those eight drivers, if you'd like, is
old driver. So you definitely need both, but you can't
make up for a race car that's not up for it.
(05:44):
So that's what everyone focuses on. Here is our job
to get the two best drivers in the business first
and foremost.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
We need to gem a car capable of winning.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
How much time has the driver spend here quite.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
A bit their simulation marketing days, so I would say
they're in three days before a Grand Prix and three
days after a Grand Prix, because you spend as much
time debriefing as you do preparing for a race weekend.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
And you had this kind of life changing experience. Was
in nineteen eighty seven when you met.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
Mario ANDRETI to tell that story.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
I went to Long Beach Grand Prix, which is the
second time I had gone, and at that point I
wanted to.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
Pursue a career in racing.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
And I got the chance to meet Mario and I
asked him how you get started in racing? That was
the one and only question I was brave enough to
ask him, and he said karting, And there happened to
be an ad in the race program for Jim hole
Cart Racing School, and went and bought a goat kart
and that was the start of the racing.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Was Mario's a little bit of advice there?
Speaker 1 (06:44):
Fine? If we had a guest on the show recently
who'd been on the Voice and I had use their
proceeds to fund their first reporting trip to Syria. But
you also had a game show enabled Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
I was on Wheel of Fortune teen week when I
was thirteen and won the first two rounds, which were
a bunch of watches and went on to sell those
at a pawnshop. And so after I got my little
bit of advice for Mario, I cashed in my winnings,
got a go kart and the rest is history.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
And when did you first get involved with Formula one
itself on the professional side?
Speaker 3 (07:19):
My first ever sponsorship was with McLaren twenty years ago.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
And how have you seen the sport change, in particular
driven by technology in those twenty years technology.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
It's the most technically advanced sport in the world. The
data that we're pulling off these cars is amazing. The
way we're using over three hundred centers on the race.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
Car and where are they on the car?
Speaker 2 (07:43):
Everywhere?
Speaker 3 (07:44):
There's nothing about the race car we don't know. We
pulled down one and a half terabytes of data a weekend.
We run about fifty million simulations. There's seventy five thousand
parts on a Formula one car and you change about
eighty percent of the non homoligated part of the racecar
over the course of the years.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
So we live in a literally in a prototype world.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
You mentioned NASA and Mission Control earlier that it's not
far off, it's.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
Not far off at all, but they're not necessarily trying
to get to the moon faster.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
We're trying to get to the moon faster every weekend.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
And I know you like to bring in sort of
outside council from you know, the likes of Michael Jordan
and you know, incredible athletes. On the tech side, I
mean you mentioned the Apple guys came here and were
inspired by the office. You have partnerships with companies like
Dell who have their you know, the name on the car.
How do you maintain McLaren's edge on the tech side with.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
Our partners, and we have some of the most unbelievable
technology companies in the world, Google, Dell, Cisco, the list
go on of you know, the leaders in their industry.
So we work very closely with them. That's one of
the things that when we look for partners long ago,
it was a sticker on a race car. Now it's
all about collaboration, work together, developing technologies together, storytelling around
(09:04):
how we use their technology, and we want to use
their technology because they're best in class to make us
go faster.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
So we have a lot of great technology.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
Partners and you'll see over turn Racing who is in
charge of the development of the car.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Here a variety of people.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
I mean, ultimately the technical team reports into Andrea Stella.
We have technical directors three or four that are the
best in their disciplines, chief designer, manufacturing, aerodynamics, vehicle performance.
So they all come together at a very senior level
(09:42):
to build the racing car. So it's those respective groups
that about seven hundred and fifty people that are actually
responsible for, in one way or another, touching the race car.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
When we come back, Zach Brown tells us just how
influential F one regulations are on the final design of
the race cars. Welcome back. I had the opportunity to
(10:23):
sit down with Zach Brown at the McLaren Technology Center
and pick his brain about the strategy behind running an
F one team. So of course I had to ask
Brown about McLaren's team principal Andrea Stella, a highly regarded
F one engineer whose promotion may have been a turning
point for McLaren Racing.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
I wanted him to run the racing team last time around,
but he felt he wasn't ready. And he's a gentleman
who doesn't lead with his ego. He leads with what
he thinks he's capable of and where he thinks he
can achieve. And I guess you would say we disagreed
because I thought he was ready four years ago.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
He didn't think he was ready till two years ago.
Speaker 3 (11:02):
We'll never know, but what's clear is he's been ready
since he accepted and he's done a fantastic job.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
When people look back at this time and write the
case study on twenty twenty four and hopefully twenty twenty five,
what will they focus on in terms of what the
changes that Andrews Seller brought to the team were.
Speaker 3 (11:22):
Getting everything to come together. Everything feeds performance on the
racing car. So Andrea is responsible for the technical side
of the business. But you need to have a great
communications department so you have huge fan base. We have
a cost cap now, so living within a fiscal challenges,
(11:43):
you need to spend wisely, So your finance department plays
a massive role. So that's the people that don't touch
the race car. But it all feeds into the race car.
So you need to get every department being the best
they can be, and then it's collaboration. It's team work.
Getting a thousand people all row in the same direction.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
You mentioned the cost cap. One of the fascinating things
about this sport is how many restrictions and regulations there are.
I mean there's this sort of phrase that constraint drives creativity.
But can you explain how the rules from the governing
body impact the car do you see on the track
(12:24):
and how technology what the interplay of technology is to
make sure that the car, the message of the track
is the best that can be made within the restrictions
imposed by the governing body.
Speaker 3 (12:34):
Yeah, you've got very sophisticated rules on specification of the car.
I think the engineer's interpret if it says you unless
it says you can't do it, then they get into
a mindset of well then you can do it. So
I think that's where the creativity comes in, this interpretation
of the rules. And then from a business point of view,
(12:56):
we have very few rules compared to other sports. Technically
we probably have the most sophisticated set of rules, but
from a business standpoint we almost have no rules. So,
in one aspect is wild while west compared to other
sports that have very specific dos and don'ts around players
and managers and things of that nature.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
How much do these rules drive the vehicleusy on the track?
Speaker 3 (13:21):
Completely one hundred percent. I mean you got to be
within the rules, and the tests and regulations around the
legality of the cars is immense. Last race you saw
the two Ferraris and a Alping disqualified.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
That wouldn't have been up to anything they shouldn't have been.
But you run the margin of.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
Error so close that if you get a little bit
wrong that one car was a little underweight and one had.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
A little bit too much skidware.
Speaker 3 (13:47):
So it is very difficult because you're trying to get
to the absolute limit and not go over, and you're
talking about less than a kilo underweight on something that's
eight hundred kilos. But kilo is a p handful of milliseconds.
Ten kilos is three tenths of a second. Entire grid
(14:08):
is covered by a second, so you don't want to
leave any weight on the table. But if you cut
it too close you get disqualified. So the rules definitely
drive what the race cars look like.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
The other fascinating thing is that the number of hours
the car is allowed to actually be on the track
is surprisingly very low. Can you also talk about that
and how why that makes the work that happens here
the technology set, It is important.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
Yeah, so there's a big testing restriction. We only get
three test days to start the year, and you've got
two drivers, so it's very little testing. And you used
to have unlimited testing. So you're effectively what you would
have tested on track fifteen to twenty years ago with
as much testing as you wanted. That's now shifted to
CFD wind tunnel simulation in that order.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
Can you explain each of those concepts, simulation and wind
tunnel on how they apply?
Speaker 2 (15:02):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (15:02):
Yeah, I mean CfDS all computer generated and so it's
a bunch of mathematical equations and aerodynamic flow things.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
Of that nature.
Speaker 3 (15:12):
So it's effectively designing a race car on a computer
and then testing it if you'd like. That'll give you data,
so that's fully in the computer, fully in the computer.
Then you'll turn that into a half scale or so
model of the real race car. You'll stick that in
the wind tunnel where are not allowed through regulation have
(15:33):
a full scale wind tunnel, so it's it's scaled.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Does that mean smaller? Correct?
Speaker 3 (15:37):
And then you have restrictions around how often you can
run the wind tunnel, so you need to make sure
you're confident that what's coming out of CFD is going.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
To work, otherwise you're wasting wind tunnel time.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
And how do they monitor how much you use the
wind tunnel.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
It's all all logged into the FIA, who's our governing body,
so they know how many runs.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
We're doing and for how long.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
You then run the wind tunnel to see if what
you've seen in the computer it you know, you kind
of see in miniature size real life. Then you input
all that data into the simulator. You let the driver
then go drive it and see if they actually can
see the performance that you think you've found in the
in the wind tunnel, and then if you're confident you have,
(16:23):
then you go ahead and manufacture the bits for the
race car. You put it on the race car and
hope the race car feeds back in the same way
your simulation has.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
And what about AI. I mean, we're kind of in
this amazing moment where kind of engineering and design and
like everything seems to be being changed by generative AI.
Is that I guess simulation is AI essentially, But I
mean in a five year view, how much you're thinking
about how these longer term technological trends.
Speaker 3 (16:49):
May Yeah, we have a team that's dedicated to emerging technologies.
We're using AI now, I think you'll never replace the
human because there's something that's called kind of race or
instinct which is needing to really understand the full environment.
I think AI can feed you data and information quicker
to make more informed, less cluttered decisions. But I don't
(17:14):
see a day where AI tells you when depit.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
I can see there being a.
Speaker 3 (17:18):
Day when AI tells you what historically has happened and
therefore give you some data to make a more educated,
quicker decision on We're using AI around marketing, We're using
AI around tire data, so we are leaning in and
it's a culture where people embrace new technologies. I'm personally
someone who gets stuck with what I've been used to
(17:42):
in a bit of a creature, a habit, and what
you need are in a Formula one team or people
that are excited to try something that they've never tried before.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
You had a choice back in twenty sixteen right whether
to join McLaren or f one itself for it, and
you chose McLaren.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
Obviously I wanted to go racing.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
I felt that the Formula one opportunity is awesome as
it was was a little bit of what I'd been
doing for twenty years, just on a bigger scale, where
McLaren offered me the opportunity not only to continue what
I was doing from a commercial standpoint, which I very
much enjoy, but when the lights go out near on pitwall,
(18:17):
you're racing, and that was something that I felt I
had missed from when i'd hung up from driving.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
When you arrived, you said you found this place in disarray.
How did that become clear to you?
Speaker 2 (18:29):
I think it was clear to everyone our results.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
We were ninth in the championship, We had very few sponsors,
we were losing a lot of money. Fans were disgruntled,
employees were disgruntled drivers who were disgruntled. So it wasn't
a happy environment. I think was well documented. We had
challenges at the shareholder level. They had a dispute. So
I think when you've got the very top leadership not aligned,
(18:58):
then that's going to have a trickle down impact on
the organization. And I think it lacked focus, lacked leadership,
and so things started unravel in a very competitive sport.
So fortunately, through changing the leadership team, getting great people
around me, reversing the downward trajectory and the negative momentum
(19:19):
that we had, went about rebuilding the team, and here
we are nine years later, world champions.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
But the first question for you was not about technology
or engineering or even about driver recruitment. It was about
how you work together to the team.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
All about people.
Speaker 3 (19:35):
And we see it in all sports, right You see
some mega teams with all the all stars and the
big names not get it done because they don't work
well together. And then you see the underdogs, which are
always a great story, you know, kind of overachieve and
that's because they came together as a team.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
We were a student of management philosophy or of leadership
or I mean, where did you was the Zach Brown school?
Speaker 3 (19:59):
Just having my my own successful business, which was easier
in some senses because I built the culture from one
employee at a time versus coming into an environment where
it had its own culture and it wasn't a good
place and it was a thousand people. So I think
it's easier to build than to change. But then I've
(20:19):
been around successful people. I've been fortunate as a racing
driver to be around a lot of successful racing team
and not successful racing team. So I think I'm always
pay attention, ask a lot of questions, and think I
went about it just from understanding what good looks like,
what bad looks like. And it's pretty obvious if you
(20:41):
paying attention in your care.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
So you came in and you had to turn around
job on your hands, and you succeeded. But then beginning
twenty twenty three, all of a sudden, it was on
your watch and things weren't going well. How did that
challenge compare to the challenge of coming into place.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
That was worse or a bigger challenge?
Speaker 3 (21:04):
Because when I came in, I didn't create the situation
we were in.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
I knew it was my job to fix it. I
made some changes.
Speaker 3 (21:14):
Top three people that were running the racing team are
no longer here, and so I did identify it.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
I saw it coming.
Speaker 3 (21:23):
I had some pretty brutal conversations over the summer break.
I spotted in June that I didn't like what I
was seeing, and there's about six month lag, and.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
So fortunately at least had comfort.
Speaker 3 (21:38):
I knew why we got into the challenge we were
in and what I thought we.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
Needed to do to get out of it.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
What does it mean for you as a leader? To
pull it off.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
Very proud of everything that the team is done. We've
earned this the hard way.
Speaker 3 (21:54):
Some of our competitors have never had financial challenges, so
they've had the luxury have been able to focus purely
on performance. We needed to focus on economics to be
able to pay for the performance. So I think I
wouldn't have it any other way.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
After the break, we revisit the down to the Wide
twenty twenty four Constructors Championship victory with Zach Brown. Welcome
back to tech stuff. Let's dive into my conversation with
(22:39):
the CEO of McLaren Racing, Zach Brown. I was looking
on Twitter this morning and back in twenty twenty three
there was this sack Zach hashtag, which is hard to
imagine now. And likewise, back at the beginning twenty four,
there was a hashtag Lando nowins, So I can.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
Imagine a new hashtag for those people. It's not appropriate.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
Not for a family friendly, but it must have. You
must have been able to put your arm around him
in a unique way, having dealt without yourself just the
year before.
Speaker 3 (23:14):
Yeah, I mean, at the end of the day, I
think we'd had a couple of chances to win that
we didn't seize the moment. But coming back to you
know where he started as a car or driver, I
think he had some comfort in knowing that he wasn't
winning because the car wasn't yet ready on many occasions,
and I think he's now proven that won't give him
(23:35):
a car that's capable winning to go out and win.
So I think it was frustrating because any Grand Prix
driver wants to win, But I think it didn't dent
his confidence because he knew he wasn't the reason we
weren't winning. It was that we needed that last little
bit out of our race car, which we now have found.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
Going back to started last season, there is a big
scandal around Christian Horner, your your counterpartner a red Bull,
and in the first episode Drives Survive, it looked like
you in a sense smelt blood or when he was
when he was in the middle of that media fire store.
I mean, did you have a sense in that moment,
knowing how important a functional team is as you do,
(24:16):
there might be an opportunity that you hadn't expected.
Speaker 3 (24:18):
Yeah, I mean our sport maybe more so than other sports.
But I want to profess to be an expert on
another sports, So forgive me if I have this wrong
other sports, but there is a destabilized the competition aspect
to this sport, and so I'm sure that happens in
other sports, but here you're fighting for employees, drivers, sponsors.
(24:40):
Media is play a big role in our sport. So
if you can create some tension in other teams or destabilize,
that helps slow the competition down while you're trying to
speed yourself up.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
How much does drives change the sport.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
It's helped grow it immensely. It's created a tremendous amount awareness.
It's shown people that what goes on in the sport,
especially off the track. I think people didn't understand that.
I think are sport's unique in that aspect where you
watch the other majority of the sports, and it's it's
pretty much exclusively concentrated on the field of play, where
(25:18):
our sport off the field is every bit as fascinating
is on the track. And I think that's what Netflix
helped capture.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
On the Constructors, I mean, some people were saying to you,
you know you got this in the bag, Zac, but
you didn't. You didn't agree with them, And indeed, I
mean that that couldn't have been.
Speaker 3 (25:36):
Been closer, couldn't have been Yeah, Atlando not one. We
went in one of the constructors, so we never felt
we had it in the bag. And you can see
how quickly this sport moves. We thought Red Bull would
win every race based on the start of the year,
and then they finished third in the championship. So I
think we're too experienced and been around the block too
much to fall for thinking you have anything in the
(25:59):
bag and the sport, I mean, ultimately we came down
to maybe seven tenths. You know, you have the DRS,
which if you're within a second, which is pretty hard
to defend, especially around Abu Dhabi, and Lando had a
very small lead over Carlos signs he comes in in
the Ferrari does a two point two second pit stop,
(26:20):
so the pressure's on us and we do a two
second pit stop. Howd we done a two point seven
second pit stop, which is not a bad pit stop?
Speaker 2 (26:26):
Then Lando comes.
Speaker 3 (26:27):
Out, Carlos and his DRS probably bassism and then you
don't know if Lando would have been able to get
him back.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
And did you have complete conviction in your team that
in the clutch moment they'll pull it off.
Speaker 3 (26:39):
Yeah, but you never know, driver can overshoot the pitch
you have a wheel gun failure. I mean it's two
point seven second pit stops not a bad pit stop,
and had a lot of confidence, but yeah, of course
you've also got nerves very much at the same time.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
So now it's a twenty twenty five season. How do
you describe McLaren stops the season?
Speaker 2 (27:00):
Almost perfect?
Speaker 3 (27:01):
First and second in China and first and I think
it was ninth in Australia. But we're running first and
second quite a dominant performance.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
But China was hard, hard work.
Speaker 3 (27:11):
So Australia while the conditions were tricky and managing both
drivers when we came up on traffic, things of that nature,
just racing smart.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
But China we had to work hard.
Speaker 3 (27:22):
Saturday wasn't a great day in the sense of landing
and have a great sprint race. Lewis Hamilton and the
Ferrari checked out, so I think we went into Sunday
thinking this is gonna be hard work and it definitely was.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
And George Russell came out and said McLaren have the
can't to win every single race this season. I was
struck by that comment. It's a strange comment for a
rival driver to say, that's.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
Part of the head games and the politics that go on.
Speaker 3 (27:47):
That's a way to put pressure on the team kind
of if you don't win all twenty four then you've
done something wrong and it's a disaster. So that's nothing
more than some of the stuff we spoke about earlier,
where people put pressure on people in different ways to
try and to stabilize it them. So coming out with
what appears to be a nice compliment is actually a
way to apply pressure.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
But nonetheless, you may be right.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
I don't actue've we won't win twenty four races this year.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
The performance the car is obviously extraordinary. There was a
headline Athletic a couple of days ago McLaren's perfect F
one problem dual title contenders and a fast car difficult
to tame. But I guess the premise was, you're an
amazing position. We have two drivers who you know who
could win. What this idea that the car is fast
but difficult to tame? What does that mean?
Speaker 3 (28:37):
You know, anytime you get a car on the limit,
it's going to eventually do something that.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
You know exceeds its limit.
Speaker 3 (28:45):
To the perfect race car, you can still get it
to be tricky to drive when you try and go
eleven tenths. So I think the drivers you know, over
over one lap to extract maximum performance out of the car,
it can be a bit tricky, a bit on edge,
but that's what race cars do and they're.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
On the limit.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
So this is this is another flavor of what you
described earlier with the one key low on the correct
You're always looking for these fine margins and if you
get wrong, you can destabilize you. It can be too
hard to drive, it can be and breach the regulation.
So it's that constant. So that must be very anxiety
And do you see it.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
Is it's a stressful, stressful being on pitwall.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
How do you deal with that?
Speaker 2 (29:29):
Just stay calm. It's nice to being on pitwall next
to Andrea.
Speaker 3 (29:32):
He's very calm and not lett any emotion run in
to your decision making process. Passion, I think is very important.
I think there's a fine line between passion and emotion.
But emotion gets you to make emotional decisions, which is
not the most productive way to go racing.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
And how are you going to manage the challenge of
having two such driver?
Speaker 2 (29:53):
Keep doing what we're doing. They get along great.
Speaker 3 (29:55):
I think everyone's encouraging all of us that we're going
to have some drama ahead of us, so we very
well might, but we haven't yet great communication with the drivers.
They know the rules of the road, they're free to race.
They just need to race each other respectfully. And I
think everyone else is waiting for the bomb.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
To go off, but we're not. We're quite happy.
Speaker 3 (30:16):
And they have both drivers signed up long term, so
they know they're going to be teammates for a long time.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
They get along really, really well.
Speaker 3 (30:22):
Of course they want to beat each other, but I
think you can race fairly and squarely.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
Of course you're good friends Over at Red Bull have
had another rookie starts this season. Is that something you
keep a close eye only more focus internally? I mean,
how much does how much time do you spend monitoring
the vicissitudes of the competition?
Speaker 3 (30:41):
Decent amount, but at the end of the day, there's
not much you can do about it. So it's more
about observing and learning. But you can get obsessed with
your competitors and then you're spending more time on them
than yourselves.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
Being here, you can't help but think about legacy. I mean,
it's just part of this building. And I'm wondering, do
you think about your legacy at McClaren what you would
like it to be.
Speaker 3 (31:06):
No, No, I think there'll be a time and place
for that, But right now I'm very head down and
I feel like it's early early days.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
Ah So now, don't really think about that, but I'm
sure there will at some point.
Speaker 1 (31:20):
But this season, the game is clear.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
One drivers and constructors. That's the that's the goal.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
Zich Brown, thank you, thank you very much. That's it
for this week for tech Stuff. I'm as Voloshin. This
episode was produced by Eliza Dennis and Adriana Tapier. It
(31:49):
was executive produced by me, Karen Price and Kate Osborne
for Caneidis Cote and Katria Novel for iHeart Podcasts. The
engineer was Basil Oxtaby Murdoch wrote our theme song. Join
us this Friday for tech Stuff's weekend tech Cara Price
and I will catch you up on the headlines and
chat with the Washington Posts Garrett da Vinc about the
(32:12):
current landscape in AI. Please rate, review, and reach out
to us at tech Stuff podcast at gmail dot com.
We look forward to hearing from you
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