April 8, 2025 • 42 mins
MAD MAX returns! Vernon Maxwell recaps his hilarious run-in with Hakeem Olajuwon at Houston Rockets’ Legends Night.
Matt & Max react to The Dream getting denied after the Houston Cougars’ Final Four win and look back on the closing action from NCAA March Madness.
Plus, the guys discuss headlines from the NBA: Draymond Green’s Defensive Player of the Year ascent, Amen Thompson’s different level & Ja Morant’s latest troubles.
Then, legendary coach Phil Handy drops in! The 3x NBA Champion reflects on his recent conversations with JuJu Watkins & casually drops all-time Austin Reaves stories from his time with the Los Angeles Lakers.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome back to Unplugged, brought to you by DraftKings. The
crown is yours. Before we get this episode started, I
want to shout out two of the best players that
I ever got a chance to play with and against
who are just nominated for the Class of twenty twenty
five Hall of Fame. First of all, Carmelo Anthony, one
of the best scores this game has ever seen, competitor
(00:20):
three level score, strong athletic. His ability to make shots
and kit clutch shots have been unmatched, so salute. And
then Dwight Howard, one of the most disrespected greatest players
I've ever had a chance to play with and against.
I got a chance to play with Prime Dwight in Orlando.
Just incredible on both sides of the ball. So just
(00:40):
want to make sure I Shand's love and a shout
out to both you guys. The Enshrinement takes place September sixth,
First bout, No question, Congratulations fellas Man, Welcome to the show,
my guy, mad Max. You was busy this weekend, man,
I saw you. I heard you ran into a keem
at during who I See You fly as ever at
(01:02):
Stack's birthday party. Man, what's happening with you. You're back
on the mountain outside right now, Max, Max is outside
right now.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Man. It was so fucking crazy out day Houston. Anytime
I go there, man, this ship is like my goodness,
make well. I just I can't talk about everything, but.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Yeah, party man.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
I had a wonderful time. Man, it was. It was
a wonderful time.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
It was happy birthday to our brother Stack.
Speaker 4 (01:32):
Man.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
I have this weekend, so I had to live vicariously
through Instagram, but everybody was fly. A big topic leaving
the National Championship game is your brother are keen not
being able to get on the floor. What's the deal
with that?
Speaker 3 (01:46):
Man?
Speaker 1 (01:47):
I saw your tweet.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Yeah, see these weird ass white folks out there in
San Antonio. You know you gotta have motherfuckers doing who damn?
This is logic one. You gotta know who this mother.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
Right. That's a walking credential right there. That's the walking
credential you talking about.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
He don't need no predictions, man. That's why I thought.
I thought my boy was gonna reach up and knock.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
The ship out of him like he hit me. But
he contained his motherfucking self. He contained himself real well.
I spoke, dreaming, I sell the look and then okay,
but but I just thought dreaming put them damn hands
on it the tweet.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
Hell, dream, you need to stop being Muslim for a second,
asked the guy. What did the five fingers stay to
the face? He wanted them to slap the dog ship
out of bro Huh.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
Yeah, man, I had to put that in there, man,
because that was crazy.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Man, come on, man'sous it's ridiculous.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
I gotta know who you're dealing with.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Who you're fucking with, man, it's ridiculous.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Absolutely, did you dream talk about your clipping went viral
on the show?
Speaker 3 (02:46):
Yeah, the slap and ship. Uh. I walked into the venue.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
They had a Legends night over there at the Rockets game,
and I gets okay, see on Friday.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
So I walked up to the venue. I see dreaming.
At first I saw Rudy Tea. I went over the
talks with the tea for a little while. He was
talking me, why you got that blowing up?
Speaker 2 (03:03):
You looking good? I'm happy for you. Then I said,
I said, got that mother for a little slapman.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
So I went over there and dream.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
I was like, dream, what's going all my people's what's
up baby? Dream looked at me and said, mate, why
are you opening up the new the lose that door closed?
Do not talk about that?
Speaker 3 (03:22):
Slap man, dude, why you why you opening all that up? Now?
Speaker 1 (03:27):
That's muster.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
What you do?
Speaker 1 (03:37):
Like?
Speaker 2 (03:37):
God, damn dream Man? Come on now, the ship happened. Man,
you're talking abou damn Man. Don't talking about that anymore.
But Dream, I'm talking about this ship today. Yeah, you
still put your goddamn hands over me though, Man, I said,
But yeah, he just told me.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
To stop talking about it. I ain't gonna never stop
talking about.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
It, ship, he said, I want my lick back. Hey,
speaking of obviously, running in and and and Leed is
like them young Rockets have been cooking lately. Took down
ok See, ended the Warriors five game winning streak. They've
secured most likely the second seed in the Western Conference.
Is this team? For real?
Speaker 4 (04:11):
They're young.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
We've talked about this for a really young team. But
I think Udoka is one of the best coaches in
the league. He's got these boys playing on all cylinders.
What are your thoughts on them?
Speaker 3 (04:20):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (04:20):
They played well on Friday when I was there, Man, shit,
I couldn't I was like, damn Shay act like he
ain't want to play on Friday. But those guys were
locking up. Like I said, they long athletic. I keep saying, man,
and I keep going back to this.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
Man in the playoffs.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Man, I don't know, man, We just like I seen
them lose some games that I thought they was gonna
be into and that they could have that they shouldn't,
you know, to prove a point like Okay, we can
go on the road and beat these teams like Denver
and these guys like that.
Speaker 4 (04:51):
Man.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
So I don't know, man, I just and I love
you Dokah like you said, man, But I just think
that second round is gonna be real, real tough boy.
I mean it might fall against the Lakers or somebody
like that.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
It could be do I mean.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
It's gonna be tough, man, I mean that's it's gonna
be tough. They just don't have that real truth guy
that in a you can identify with, like man Jelina
was talking about for the show. So you can roll
that motherfucker ball out to it and go get me
a goddamn bucket.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
Boy. They got a lot of young talent, and I
definitely think they've embraced the mindset and the attitude of email,
which is you know, in your face defense, tough, hard, nose,
second and third, first ones to the floor that but
we all know come playoff time, experience is a is
a heavy factor and any team can beat anyone on
any given night, but to beat someone in the seven
(05:39):
game series, you have to be the better team.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
So get us a half court game, now, all them down.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
Fast break points ain't there in the playoffs, man, so
you can really gonna have to get into your sets
and be able to run your sets. I mean, you
got to go to your first option, sap. I mean
it's gonna be it's gonna.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
Be tough, man.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
So it's good because again I think this is you know, Okac,
He's been able to get here the last few years
and take their and understand the process and what it
takes and how the game slows down and how every
possession counts. And this is going to be Houston's kind
of with this core. This is going to be the
highest they've been and you know, expected to win, but
a lot of people have upset alert on the Rockets,
(06:15):
So we're definitely gonna have to see one thing I
did want to point out though, is that is they
really put the clamps on Steph. I mean they threw
multiple defenders from Thompson Brooks easton Adam Frazzle. You know,
Steph was complaining, I think one for ten from the
field three points. He may said. Anytime you're complaining about fouls,
you know you've done your job again. That's the one
(06:35):
thing I really like about this team, as they play
with an energy and a physicality that you don't get
to see every night in the NBA. So I'm definitely
looking forward to seeing what this young team does mean too.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
Man.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
Like I said all the time, they got like a
lot of six s eighth, sixty nine, sixty seven guys
they just throw at you. An athletic is hell, you
know what I mean. And all of them dogs, so
they're ready to guard. So, I mean they got that part.
But I just think when they when they really need
to get a bucket, it's gonna be tough in the playoffs,
That's what I keep saying.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
It'll be interesting to see who who who falls in
that seventh spot. Golden State could be in there. There's
a lot of teams that could possibly be in that
seventh spot. So I'm definitely looking forward to seeing who
lands a men Thompson. What's his ceiling? I mean, he's
one of my favorite young players. Him and his brother
have come in this game and showed a different side
of athleticism and IQ and skilled. What are your thoughts
(07:28):
on him? And what is his ceiling?
Speaker 3 (07:30):
A dog?
Speaker 2 (07:31):
He a fucking dog, you know, I mean he, I mean,
he won't the best player. Every fucking night guard you
know out there on the perimeter. He doesn't care, you know.
I mean after and then when I knew it was
a real dog when he grabbed that little motherfucker.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
For mom and swung his head and swung that motherfucker on.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
The what you he wrote when he grabbed he was
around goddamn rad dog. I say, goddamn, that's my guy
right there. I love that motherfucker for the rockets right there.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
But that's my guy. Though, I love him.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
I'm doing something with him this summer too, So I'm
gonna have a golf tournament you gotta come to. But
that's my guy, Yeah, brother. Yeah, there's some dogs though,
but yeah, definitely is a dog man. That's all I
can say. Just a damn natural doll.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
I love it.
Speaker 4 (08:14):
I love it.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
Definitely send the dates. You know, I'm out there for
any kind of golf. I ain't sending Houston in the.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
You know that. Definitely. I got dunking U.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
Okay, shit, I got clothes, but I can always take
some new ones.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
Callaway want to fit you, man, Callaway, want to fit
I'm in. Yeah, I got you.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
I'm in, Yeah, I'm in. I'm in. Our boy joh
Wick joh Moran is in some more trouble. He gotta
fined seventy five thousand for making a gun gesture on
the court twice, not once, twice last week versus the Warriors.
Is this an overreaction to stuff he's done in the past,
because let's be real, a lot of people do it
(08:49):
on all different levels. I mean, shoot or shoot and
they point the guns. But I just kind of feel
like Josh shit is a little different because he's got
caught on Instagram, you know, two different times with a
piece and and lost a lot of money and and
and and had to do all this ship. But the
one thing I will say Verne is I think he's
really going to embrace whether it's self proclaimed or really
thrown upon him. I think he's gonna embrace this villain role.
(09:12):
And I don't know if you guys want to wake
that monster up, because I think he looks for any
little thing to get edges and I think this him you,
I'm gonna show you a bad guy type. What did
he call? We were tripping at the house the other
day when he hit the game winning against UH Miami,
and he called the dude guarding him a pigeon. I'm like,
this dude is hey, this dude is off the chain's different.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
That's my guy, that's my guy.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
Thoughts on him, I know it's daddy. I mean, I mean,
I love the family man. That's my guy. But Joe
got a cheer with all that shit, you know what
I mean, because I mean you already got a reputation.
I mean Jo, I mean, come on, John, this Uncle
Max talking to you. God damn baby, we got a
god damn like trying to change the narrative now a
(09:56):
little bit, you know what I mean. The world is
going to be the face of the NBA one time.
Now you're the villain, Okay, That's who I was. So
I mean you can embrace the villain part and shit
and be a villain. But still, man, keep that goddamn
money in your goddamn pocket. Boy, I'm trying to tell you, man,
say that motherfucking money man, because I wish i'd. I mean,
(10:16):
I know you motherfuckers make way more money than what
the fuck I was making, But I won't give a fuck.
Man say that money. Man, Be more professional about what
you're doing. Man, you'll get more the deals.
Speaker 3 (10:26):
And what you're getting.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
Boy, well, there's no question I think. You know, obviously
he was on the trajectory to be the face of
the league, hands down, and I think obviously all the
stuff that's come as way negative is unfortunately been self
self inflicted. You know, obviously he got hurt, but the
off the court trouble, it wasn't because of anyone else
doing anything. It's because of him, and that affects the
bottom line across the board, because I mean his he
(10:47):
has a great shoe, and his shoe was on pace
to this is right when Kyrie was leaving, so they
needed the shoe to take it. And how I judge
shoes is how many shoes do I see it the
AU tournament and obviously in Josh shoe on everybody and
now I don't and now I don't, you know what
I mean. So that's affecting the bottom line. And both
you and I were villains, and and and all this
(11:08):
comes from a loving perspective. Is it's okay to embrace
that ship. But he has to realize something that he's
in that upper and he's in that superstar stratus. He's
in the superstar stratus with one of the best American players.
We talk about the you know, the the the over
overseas dominance of great Jaws, one of the great American
hopes that we have him and Tatum, you know, Booker,
(11:28):
there's a handful of guys that we have that you
know that we're gonna put our hat on, and he
has to be one of them. So I hope that
he kind of he gets this shit out of his system.
At the end of the day, you never want anything
to be louder than your play. And unfortunately the antics,
the antics have been louder than his play. And I
just hope for the sake of him and his greatness, uh,
he allows his play to get back to the forefront
(11:49):
because I think as fans, that's all we want to
see Max. Max is coming to La next week. Man,
I can't wait. I got my outfits already laid. I
got my outfits already laid. Yeah, what were doing?
Speaker 2 (12:00):
Oh I'm gonna have mine too. Oh I'm ready. Hey,
y'all getting ready, mad Mask.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
Yeah, definitely, we're gonna be live streaming next week shooting
some content. Really excited again to have you in the
family and have you out man. But thank you for
joining me today and ship. We'll see you in LA
next week.
Speaker 4 (12:19):
Bro.
Speaker 3 (12:20):
Appreciate it. Man, have me on plug man.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
Hey, y'all, have a good day, man, stay best my people,
burn one for old Max.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
Now I want to welcome one of my personal friends,
one of the good guys in the game, Phil Handy Phil.
What's up man, My.
Speaker 4 (12:33):
Guy, Matt?
Speaker 1 (12:33):
How's everything?
Speaker 4 (12:34):
Everything's good man, It's good to be here. Hey.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
You're normally really prepping for the playoffs right now and
kind of getting them playoff grind. What does it kind
of feel like, you know, for the first time in
a lot of years to kind of just have your
april not doing that.
Speaker 4 (12:47):
Miss it. It's been an adjustment, you know, just being
used to being in, like you said, playoff Mold preparing
end of the season for me, man, it's been a
great it's been a great mental physical breakset to just
kind of step away and reset, man, and really be
able to watch the game from Afar and.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
Just as a fan. Now it don't have to be exus.
Speaker 4 (13:09):
No, I don't have no emotional attachments. You know. I
still still watch a lot of the guys that I've
had a chance to coach. You know, Look, I watch Austin,
you know, I watched RUI. Obviously me and Bron have
a lot of history. But being able to watch from
Afar and see these guys and just like you said,
not not having any attachment and being happy for them
(13:32):
whether they win, whether they lose, it's a it's a good,
good feeling to be there.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
You brought up Austin reeves, in my opinion, the best
third option in the game, but of late his numbers
have been off the chart. Did you see that in him?
Speaker 4 (13:49):
Younger?
Speaker 1 (13:50):
Is this this new? Because to me, it's all confidence.
Obviously he works on this game, but I think it's
the belief in himself that he can go out there
and do it night and night out. And he's at
what is his last ten games or I mean games
plas six.
Speaker 5 (14:01):
Fourteen, He's twenty six, five and five shooting forty five
fifty ninety five.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
And keep it real, he might have one of the
deepest bags in the game. With our other brother Kyrie
on the sideline right now. I mean that's I mean, Phil,
what's going on?
Speaker 4 (14:14):
Phil?
Speaker 1 (14:15):
I know you put some groceries in that bag.
Speaker 4 (14:18):
I saw that from day one? Did you really day one? Look?
I tell this story. The first time I met Austin,
he was playing for our summer league team. He went undrafted.
He went undrafted. He was playing for our summer league team,
and I had never really I never met him, but
I saw clips of him playing college. So people think
(14:39):
this is just now matter. If you go back and
you watch a couple of his games at Oklahoma, he
got some shit with him like he back then. I
was like, hold up, man, just the chip on his shoulder,
and so I saw it. I went to the summer
league game and he wasn't shooting the ball, and it
was crazy. You asked Austin today. It was halftime. I
(15:01):
walked over and say, man, come here. Never met. I said,
you want to make this team, you need to shoot
the fucking ball, Like bro, you out here said, shoot
the ball man, you want to make this team. So
you know, that second half he played well. But when
Summer League was over and I had a chance to
get in the gym with him, right away, I saw
(15:21):
it and it wasn't so much his skill or his
shot making. It was just his inner belief. Like that
kid had had a SUPERB chip on his shoulder. Man,
and people people don't really know like his story. He
went through Summer League. You know that year, his first year,
we had Russ, we had Carmelo, we had Trevor, We
(15:43):
had all these veterans on our team, right and that
was you know, we had our little bron has his
little camp in Vegas. We had our mini camp. Austin
Reeves was the best player in the gym. He was
the best player in the gym and he started out
as a two way. When that camp was over, the
Lakers signed him.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
I love to hear shit like that.
Speaker 4 (16:05):
And so he just b his moxie, his his confidence.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
And it doesn't come up not to cut you out.
It doesn't come off as cockiness. His confidence and belief
in himself. I felt that when I'm around him. You know,
he told an interesting story. We interviewed him, and he's
just like you know. They figured that they had a
couple of chances to possibly get picked later in the
second round, and they told the teams not to draft them,
and him and his team did a study and found
out that the Lakers would be a great fit for him.
And to see him tell that story, to hear the
(16:32):
stories you told us, and just to see where he is.
Is it five years later? For is it year four?
It's year four, year four? To me? Naming better third
I don't think you can name it better if that's
your third option.
Speaker 4 (16:42):
That's doing this third option. And my vote for most
improved player. People not talking about they're not like that.
He should be in that category. And if not, the leader,
tell me another player, tell me another player that's played.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
You can't to that level.
Speaker 4 (16:57):
And just the body of work man.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
And on that stage, I mean, I feel we all know.
I mean, coming to this Laker stage is a lot
that you could be a killer somewhere else, but it
takes a real killer to be madam.
Speaker 4 (17:08):
You see Austin. Austin is a hoodie sweats.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
He's he'll billy, he's hill billy golf.
Speaker 4 (17:14):
He don't he don't care about none of that. Yeah,
you know for him the lights that man whatever, Hooper,
let's go Hoop.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
I love it man, Congratulations bro, keep doing your thing.
Unrivaled first year in existence. From a coaching standpoint and
just a fan of the game, how did you drive?
Speaker 4 (17:29):
How'd you like it? Totally different game? Like who man
that listen? That three on three full court concept is
pretty dope. Like it's it's dope to coach it. It's
tough for the athletes to play it. But just the
whole concept of being able to play in space shortened court.
You know, you just think about when you go to
a gym and you get a couple of dudes and
(17:50):
you play three on three full court. It's a good workout.
This is a little bit of a shortened court. It's
customized to it. And man, I just the game is
fast paced, it's physical. You know a lot of people
didn't really understand just these ladies are physical and they
play fast in this setting. So one, you better be
in shape. Two you better be able to defend just
(18:13):
a little bit, not just a little bit, right, you
get put on that island on three on three in
a full course setting, it's pretty tough, but man, just
the whole concept. Unrival did a great job in their
first year. You know, there's always some kinks and things
you got to figure out, but to pull this off
the way they did in such a ginormous way for
(18:35):
these ladies, man, was it was a big time, big
time opportunity for the ladies, for the coaches, everybody involved.
It was really good.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
I know you've always been close to the women's game
and trained it and coached it now, but are there
some of the lays that surprised you still? Yes, during
this run.
Speaker 4 (18:53):
Man, listen for me having an opportunity to really step
into the W and and be in their environment. Man,
it's some hoopers and I was completely not caught off guard.
But just like I wasn't familiar, Like I knew a
lot of the ladies and seen them play, but to
see them up close and see them some of these
(19:13):
ladies that probably don't get a chance to do on
their teams in the W they were able to come
to Unrivaled and just showcase, at least for me, some
things that I hadn't seen. So like Alyssa Gray, Alicia,
I want to make sure I pronounced I had not
seen her play. She was out there getting to it,
you know, like she was hitting threes, you know, in
(19:35):
the handle and I mean just playing free. So for me,
that's one example, Like even I had never really been
around Courtney Vandersloup, you know, savvy Vet just really there's
a list, man, there's a long list of being able
to watch these ladies up close. It was really eye
opening for me, but not in the sense of being surprised.
(19:57):
I knew they can hoop, but when you get close
to them, like, okay, I'll take it.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
Really it's different too. I mean you'll see fans would
see if NBA guys are playing in the summer, that
freedom to kind of play your game and not have
to play your role as a whole other monster, and
you get to see different sides and really how good
people are you.
Speaker 4 (20:15):
Know, work on your craft? Right? Look, I think that's
where this is where I unvivled for the women's game.
A lot of people ask me, We'll where can the
women's game grow? The development piece in the side, they
don't have time to develop most of these ladies what
they played in w and then they go to Europe, right,
so they play year round or then they have some
Olympic responsibilities. This was the first time that this group
(20:39):
of ladies said, I'm not gonna go to Europe. We're
gonna take ten weeks and we're gonna work on our
game and then we're gonna play. So they had an
opportunity to really understand what do these NBA guys do
seasons over what they do. They take care of the bodies,
they go work in the game. There's a development piece.
So I think that's where the w or women's basketball
on the highest level is gonna see the biggest growth.
(21:01):
Now they have time to really focus on the development.
Let me focus on my body, let me get in
the weight room, let me do all these other things
that we've never done before. And I think the curve
is going to take maybe three to five years for
them to get used to it, for the coaches to
get used to it, and then just that become part
of just the whole women's ecosystem of how how they improved.
(21:21):
Do you think it's a good question? You know, I
think you will. I would be if I was a
betting man. You know, I think you can see it.
I think this year for her, she needed the break.
She went right from college into the w so she
again just not having no time off. I would be
surprised if she if she never plays.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
Shout out to everybody. I mean the concept, the execution,
the ability to pay these women some good money so
that they can do everything you spoke about. What was
the what were the facilities like and rooming, everything was
where it needed to.
Speaker 4 (21:54):
Be, excellent, top notch. So they picked you know, they
took this sound stage kind of place out Durral, Florida,
which is out by the airport, and they gutted the
whole place, built an arena custom arena said about nine
hundred people. They built a practice court behind the arena.
They had a weight room, hot cold tub, sauna, nutrition,
(22:18):
recovery everything. They had daycare, they had podcast studios, they
had estheticians, they had a makeup room. But they went
all out.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
It's well, the shit you don't think of, you know, care,
it's just shit you don't think of. These women have to,
you know, hurdle over to be able to accomplish their goals.
So man shout out to everybody in unrival Man beautiful
first season. Definitely looking forward to the second season. On
a little bit of a sour note. Juju and Kyrie
both acls, two people you know very well to put
(22:51):
people you've worked very closely with. Have you got a
chance to speak to them? And what's this journey like?
I don't think a lot of people understand the journey
from injuries like this, the dark days, the days I
want to say fucking quit, the good days and the
better Like, what is this journey going to be like
for both of them in two different stages of their career.
Speaker 4 (23:10):
Yeah. Man, I've talked to both of them numerous times since,
you know, been on FaceTime with Kyrie a few times.
Kay gets it. You know, he's been he's he's been
injured before. So his mind of just understanding what this
process is like is for him, it's like, I'm just
gonna take the time, get my body right, get my
(23:30):
mind right, spend time with my family.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
And I like he show he's talking a little bit more.
He's kind of coming out.
Speaker 4 (23:34):
Of his streams and people are going to get a
chance to see another side of Kay. So for him, man,
this is not what he wanted, you know, obviously with
the degree of some of the things that happened with
their team. But he's in a good place man, in
the sense of just understanding what this is about, and
so he's he's prepared for the journey.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
You know.
Speaker 4 (23:52):
Juju, on the other hand, was a little different. You know,
young athletes. Just the first time she's ever been injured,
and you know, just a natural thing as a young athlete,
her own personal goals. Just in the NCAA tournament, the
expectations and the first couple of days for her were
really tough just from a mental standpoint. But man, she's
(24:14):
got a great her inner circle, her family, her parents.
You know, I had a chance to talk with her
a number of times. We went to lunch, and she's
on the other side of that now. Yeah, she's like,
She's like, Phil, I'm man, I'm ready. I'm gonna come
back stronger. I understand that this is gonna be good
for me. I can work on my body. I get
a chance to work on other parts of the game
from a mental standpoint, you know, let me let me
(24:37):
understand the game from an IQ standpoint and dive into
those areas. So she's already she's already tracking in the
sense of I'm gonna be ready for this to come back.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
It's a mental monster, and I think what's different is
that this is, unfortunately, but to their benefits, more of
a common injury Now. Aco used to be a huge
deal back in the day. Now it's a little, it's
more common. Medicine has improved. I'm definitely decided to see,
you know, her journey and her growth and you know,
obviously can Kai back out there and him kind of
showing different sides and kind of, like you said, understanding
what it is now. I mean, even with Juju's injury,
(25:09):
she damn near swept the award season, would an award,
AP Player of the Year, Natesmith Player of the Year,
Women's us USB A, us b w A Player of
the Year. I mean, what have you seen before injury again,
because you've been working with for a long time, just
kind of those steps that she's gradually been making.
Speaker 4 (25:28):
You know what I love about her this year, Matt.
We obviously, you know, before I left one on arrival,
you know, we work out at least twice a week.
But when I left, she was like film, you know,
let's let's we gotta get on zoom. We gotta watch film.
So we we were trying to watch film at least
once a week, on zoom take some of her games
and just the student. The student part of the game
(25:50):
is where she's really trying to have the growth. I
think a lot of people look at Juju and just
see her talent, but she's like talked about her just
having her basketball IQ rise to the same level as
her talent.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
Gary Boy scared.
Speaker 4 (26:07):
That's where she's That's where I really love. Like we
would watch film and she was always always curious, what
about this, how do I read this? Okay, what's what's here?
And that part of the game for her, I saw
a lot of growth in terms of just her understanding
just her gravity and then how can I how can
I get better at making my teammates better? And so
(26:28):
just you know, just that part of the game for her.
Man she was She's always been very open to understanding
it's more to it, and then you know her, she
used the word anxious. She's like, sometimes I feel anxious
when I'm on the floor. In terms of scoring, I'm like, Jude,
you got the ball every possession. You don't have to
be anxious, right, the ball's gonna find you. So now,
(26:49):
how can you just slow the game down? Read the game?
If your teammates are open, throw them just a simple pass.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
Just though that next level, that mental side. I know
that's something he wants to dominate as well, like that
mental aspect and focus. And I've told this story before,
but just him understanding. We were on a flight to
Spain and he had a bunch of courts and he
was figuring out where the rest of us were going
to be open at because he's watching the guy. Now,
he's not watching the guy guarden him. He has one
eye on the help and the other eye on the
(27:16):
third defender. So where do I see you guys open that.
It's just that next level. And like you said, for
her mental, if her mental catches up to her skill set,
she has a chance to be the greatest coming ever.
Speaker 4 (27:29):
It's coming. Well you heard it from Matt, you hear
from me.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
Yeah, I ain't gonna lie to you. Speaking of the
breakdown dynamic, I mean, we've been talking about what are
we gonna do together? And then obviously unrivaled happened. But
we need to put our plan together. Man, we got
to get you in the mix, in the loop. You're
already a part of the family, but we really got
to put your because I think your mind is incredibly
You're just you're you're, You're a Jedi when it comes
to this ship, and not only on the court, but
(27:54):
off the court, the mental side, and the film side,
and the breakdown side and the visionary side of it.
So we definitely gotta get back.
Speaker 4 (28:00):
I don't know if they're ready for it, Matt ready
or not.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
Motherfucker, I don't know they're ready for it.
Speaker 4 (28:05):
We're gonna go deep into the bag man looking forward
to breaking news.
Speaker 3 (28:10):
The Nuggets just fired Mike Malono.
Speaker 4 (28:13):
They lost four to row.
Speaker 3 (28:15):
And they just fired him now And this is the
second coach that this laten season. This doesn't happen.
Speaker 4 (28:20):
So they fired the Grizzlies coach season the four games
before at the end of the regular.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
Seasons, going to coach at one of the Yoga's brothers, Zan Keith.
This late the season is crazy. I mean, normally I
see if around All Star, but I mean, you're a
week from the playoff, two weeks from the playoffs, you're
the fourth seed right now, a game and a half
back from the third seed, and your coach is gone.
Speaker 5 (28:43):
Game Peel, you played in the league forever I've had
I've coached the league for fourteen man right now, I'm
trying to I am the NBA in turn to look
that that phrase, I've used this phrase for people as
coaches of us.
Speaker 4 (29:01):
We get hired to get fired. That is a real
phrase in the NBA. And it's unfortunate, like you always
try to wonder, like what the hell is going on
behind closed doors for Mike Malone to get fired, what's
going on behind closed doors for Taylor Jenkins to get fired?
And again it's a it's an unfortunate part of the business.
(29:21):
But I'm I'm completely shocked, it's crazy by that one.
And it's just as coaches, we know we come into
this environment, the great Popovitch of the world, the Steve
Curz of the world, you know, the Eric Sposer of
the world. That's their tenures. Those those tenures, man, are
those it's not it's not used to if you're a
(29:43):
head coach or if you're on a coaching staff somewhere
for four or five years, that's great, that's great longevity.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
Because obviously it's more and we're not insinuating that had
anything to do with the players, but just the players
run the league now like there used to be a
line of of respect for coaches. And there was the
coaches where the highway when I came to the league
in the early two thousands. Now it's the players wear
the highway. And again I'm not we're not insinuated by
any means this is a player move or anything like that.
It's just the players have more power now, so the
(30:13):
tenures of coaches are it's always going to be the coach.
It's going to be the scapego because the players are
making too much money.
Speaker 4 (30:17):
That's the part of business that I have a problem
with in terms of how coaches are always the one
that's thrown under the bus. Look, everybody has a job
to do, right. I always say you have a job.
I make no qualms about it. But there's so much
stuff that goes into that that the coach is always
the first one at the doorstep, and there's always other
(30:38):
pieces to it. You know, there could be there could
be some decisions that the front office may have made
for your team that you had nothing to do with, Right,
but your adult your dealt the cards of having to
coach certain guys and if they don't play well, it's
your fault.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
You're the one their decisions they made.
Speaker 4 (30:54):
Yeah. Sometimes so it's there's always a bigger picture to it, man.
Speaker 1 (30:57):
So always more to it. Man, very solid coach, MANBA champion.
I've heard I've heard a lot of people speak really
highly of Mike Moves. I'm sure you know when he's ready,
he'll land back on his feet. But four games before
the playoffs is insane. The men's tournament, we just watched
the culmination, uh the other night of the championship. Before
we get there, I want to talk about Duke and
(31:19):
obviously them slipping up and execution down the stretch wasn't
what it needed to be to get past Houston. But
Cooper Flag potential number one pick in the draft. As
a basketball mind, what do you like and what have
you seen from Cooper Man?
Speaker 4 (31:32):
His size, his athleticism, his mobility, just just his overall skill.
I've really been surprised by the kid, because again I
didn't have a chance to really watch him in high school,
but just what I've seen of him at Duke Man,
that kid is a kid has has a has a
deep deep too. His bag is pretty deep.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
And he got a motor. That's one of my what
I'm talking.
Speaker 4 (31:55):
About, Like, you don't usually don't see kids with that size,
like his motor, like the ability, and just how he
plays the game. It's gonna resonate well at the next
long any reclass.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
He jumped up when everyone's trying to hold back two three,
four years and be twenty seven or twenty eight playing
college basketball.
Speaker 4 (32:11):
That's rare.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
He was a real seventeen year old when he came
to college.
Speaker 4 (32:14):
That's rare right there.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
So Bechel definitely looking forward to seeing what he does
on the next So there was whispers him possibly going
back one more year. I don't think that's gonna I
think there's too much money on the table. But shit,
if anyone can do it, it'll be Cooper.
Speaker 4 (32:27):
You live in that college life.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
It's great.
Speaker 4 (32:30):
People don't understand.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
And now hold ony too. Now you get some money
ten million next to that college life.
Speaker 4 (32:36):
Man, you the king.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
I got twenty five hundred every three months. You couldn't
tell me shit.
Speaker 4 (32:42):
Can Look, if he's decided to stay, he's an il deal.
It's not like he's not gonna make them money. Kid
will make some money.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
And he'll have the insurance clause. Sure make sure everything
is good on the other side. But I would love
to see him play with the boozer boys. Florida crazy game.
You get a chance to watch the game, only watch
part of it.
Speaker 4 (32:58):
Great, you see the whole thing.
Speaker 1 (32:59):
Houston is some fucking dogs. Calvin Sampson had them boys
playing out of their mind. But Florida, to me, stayed in,
you know, striking distance. And Clayton didn't have the best game,
but I think his teammates held him down the entire
time and they were able to. You know, we were
watching the game. I was like, yo, if he gets
if he gets the double digits, he gets twelve, thirteen,
fourteen points, they're gonna win. And sure enough, he hit
(33:20):
it some you know, three down the stretch, got to
the foul line, saw the ball go through the hoop,
and Florida was able to pull off a good one.
Speaker 4 (33:28):
Man. So is it Todd Todd? Is it Todd Gholsting?
Is how you pronounced his last name? Head coach?
Speaker 1 (33:34):
Now?
Speaker 4 (33:34):
I'm saying it because I used to I used to
train Todd. Did you really he was at Saint Mary's College?
Speaker 1 (33:39):
Is he the youngest or one of the youngest coaches
that ever win it?
Speaker 4 (33:42):
Right?
Speaker 1 (33:42):
Since like Jim Valvano or something, right, yeah. Also zero
five stars in the final game.
Speaker 4 (33:47):
And Todd is man, congrats young fella. But sniper, he
himself was a sniper. Really shoot that thing man. So
just seeing him on the sidelines and seeing his his
growth mm hm is incredible. Man. Extremely happy for him
and what he's been able to do. But just what
I did see was Florida this year when I had
(34:07):
a chance to watch just a cohesiveness as a team,
the unit, like there is no that is a team
and understanding, now, look, we're we're gonna all do this
and tip in and do it together. And that's what
you see, you know, for them to be able to
be national champions.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
The most valuable player of the Final four was a
zero star basketball recruit. Right, he was a football player first?
Speaker 4 (34:29):
Right?
Speaker 1 (34:29):
Or is that the other guy that was a football
player but just zero stars and he ends up being
the most valuable player in the Final four and winning
a national championship. The game has changed, feel too. And
then this is something I haven't necessarily been a fan of,
but I understand it because it's it's an option. But
just the age of kids playing outside of this duke team,
a lot of these teams were older teams that you know,
(34:51):
had three star, maybe some four star guys that have
been around, but no real five star. And on the
flip side, I think, you know the egos. You know,
I'm not saying five stars be tripping, but a good
chunk of five stars kind of have a different mindset.
But these teams are getting these older guys that have
kind of been around for a while and then able
to build teams with them and make you look at
the Auburns and you know, you look at you look
(35:13):
at Houston, you know, have some older guys. The new
landscape of college basketball I'm not a big fan of. Again,
I understand, I don't blame the players by any means.
I don't blame the coaches by any means, but you know,
I saw Rick Patino at one point say, hey, this offseason,
we're not recruiting any high school kids. What can the
high school kid do? And it just got me thinking,
like college is supposed to be for kids trying to
turn into men, and now the college is for men
(35:34):
with kids taking time away from other kids.
Speaker 4 (35:38):
Yeah, man, I'm with you on that. Man. I think
there's so many caveats college game. Now one college basketball
is not what it used to be. It's free agency. Now.
Now look, I'm all for the athletes. I love that
the kids are getting paid, right, But what the NCAA
has done, they just created the wild wild West. To me,
no boundaries, no rules in the sense of of with
(36:01):
the n I LS. Right, you talk about the nils
and these contracts, how can you help prepare these young
men to be professional athletes? Right? So give them some boundaries.
All right, fine, we're gonna we're gonna pay you and
give you n I L. But you signed this contract,
whether it be two years, then you're committed to that
contract or you have to pay the buy out one
of the rules, right, make some rules to where everybody's protected. Coaches, players,
(36:24):
all all alike. But the portal. And again I've learned,
been learning more. That's what has exiled high school kids.
You know, now you and then you take all of
these rules. Now, what's the new rules? Junior college players
have junior college years or they don't count. I went
to JUCO, you know, and so when no one out,
Juko only had two years left or a year left.
(36:45):
Now these are exemple So look, I think there's two
sides of it. As a coach, I would like mature players. Right,
As a coach, you want mature players. That kind of
really hurts the young players because some of them are
gonna need time to to raise that level of maturity,
not just mentally but physically the whole piece. So you
(37:07):
take these guys that are four year, five year, six years,
sixth year, I mean it's now you have a team
of experienced players that.
Speaker 1 (37:16):
And it shows like we know the game and understanding.
That's why we don't blame the players or the coaches,
because I mean, you want to win. But that's the
one reason why I was rooting for Duke, because Duke
had four freshmen that were instrumental in their run.
Speaker 4 (37:27):
You got you got two.
Speaker 1 (37:28):
Boys, Yeah you go, I'm coming with the two young
bucks that you boys.
Speaker 4 (37:34):
Yeah, you want opportunity boys to go through.
Speaker 1 (37:38):
And like I said, it was just it was weird
because you know, when we're you're a little bit older
than me. When we were coming up, we always played
always played up. We never wanted to play down. We
never wanted to hold back or hold back twice like
what like what are you running from? Like I was
in eighth grade walking across street, playing with the varsity team,
like and just just the game has changed so much.
Speaker 4 (37:54):
That's why you get better. Yeah, get your head cracked.
Speaker 1 (37:56):
Because there's only so much you can running, you can
do only so much jumping in the port, transfering. I'm
hitting some adversity, I'm not gonna take it on the
chin and I'm gonna run.
Speaker 4 (38:03):
Get tired of get tired of getting whooped. That's what
that's only, that's what motivates you. Be Like, Okay, what
I'm coming back for y'all?
Speaker 1 (38:11):
Phil, We're gonna see you back in the league. What's
going on?
Speaker 2 (38:13):
Man?
Speaker 1 (38:13):
I know that's the personal question, But is that something
are we gonna Is that something you're looking into this?
You know, obviously having a nice little break and doing
something different with the unrivaled, but when we see you
back in the NBA eighties.
Speaker 4 (38:24):
Yeah, man, I'm looking out for now. Man, I'm a
coach at like I'm a coach at hard now. So
for me, it's really about the right opportunity. I've had
a chance to as a coach, experience everything, winning at
the highest level, experienced coaching some of the best players.
I just want to be able to continue to impact
the game. With the players and then whatever organization, I'm
(38:46):
working for the value of what I bring as a
coach in terms of the development. That's just the easy.
But I think people don't really a lot of people
don't understand who I am as a coach with the
x'es and O's.
Speaker 1 (38:57):
Talk about that because I think you've been laid well
rightfully so, because you are one of the best in
that space, is one of the best player development. But
there's so much more to your coaching and to your philosophy.
And I think sometimes labels, even if people think it's oh,
he's one of the best developing, there's so much more
to you and that label can sometimes hurt you when
organizations are looking for can this guy run my franchise?
(39:18):
M And I'm a firm believer there's people like you
and Rico Hines that can be head coaches of NBA
teams but are labeled as developing guys.
Speaker 4 (39:27):
I mean, you got to start somewhere. Everybody evolves, everybody
gets better. You name me one head coach that's in
the NBA now that started out where they are. They
all came in some way, whether they were video coordinators
or scouts, and they work their way up into being
in that position. My journey is no different, man, just's
(39:49):
I want to say, it's a blessing and a curse
sometimes because I've been really good at my job, right,
but in that process, man, Man, you want to talk
about my education, the coaches that I've coached under, I
have a high level education. Mike Brown, Mike D'Antoni, t Lou,
David Blatt, Nick Nurse, Frank Vogel, you know, even Darvin
(40:13):
Ham Like, that's some high level coaches. And my bag
of understanding the game from a defense and an offense
and schemes. Man, I have probably the best, one of
the best to mentor and tutoring aspects of understanding the
game from all different angles. And so for me, it's
(40:34):
just just the right opportunity, man. You know, I don't
I don't feel bad or get angry that people try
to put me in that box. It's just, you know,
when the time comes and I have an opportunity to
interview for the right people, they will understand about my
knowledge and who I am. I am as a coach.
The development piece is just that was just my avenue
to become an NBA coach, and so over the years,
(40:56):
I've had a chance to really grow and become better
at my craft.
Speaker 1 (41:00):
We'll feel man, thank you for you.
Speaker 3 (41:03):
Calvin Booth.
Speaker 4 (41:06):
Booth's third year.
Speaker 1 (41:07):
He came in for Conley, who is the one that
really put that team together.
Speaker 4 (41:11):
In the Minnesota right Something's going on internally, man, Yeah,
something something internally behind the doors.
Speaker 1 (41:17):
Calvin Booth is out, Mike Malone is out four games
before the playoffs. Ship is going on in Denver. Stay tuned,
Stay tuned because to me, I mean Denver is still
one of those teams that has the pedigree and they're
an older team because the West is top heavy with
young teams. So we know, you know, to beat the
team seven times in.
Speaker 4 (41:37):
The mix.
Speaker 1 (41:40):
If you want to losing for in a row before that,
you know, I mean, just is that reason to fire something.
We'll peel. Appreciate your time, man, We'll definitely catch up.
Speaker 4 (41:49):
Appreciate you.
Speaker 1 (41:51):
Yeah, no doubt. That's a wrap for Unplugged. Hope you
guys enjoyed this week. You can catch this on the
DraftKings Network and all the Smokest Productions YouTube. We'll see
you guys this week.
Welcome back to Unplugged, brought to you by DraftKings. The
crown is yours. Before we get this episode started, I
want to shout out two of the best players that
I ever got a chance to play with and against
who are just nominated for the Class of twenty twenty
five Hall of Fame. First of all, Carmelo Anthony, one
of the best scores this game has ever seen, competitor
(00:20):
three level score, strong athletic. His ability to make shots
and kit clutch shots have been unmatched, so salute. And
then Dwight Howard, one of the most disrespected greatest players
I've ever had a chance to play with and against.
I got a chance to play with Prime Dwight in Orlando.
Just incredible on both sides of the ball. So just
(00:40):
want to make sure I Shand's love and a shout
out to both you guys. The Enshrinement takes place September sixth,
First bout, No question, Congratulations fellas Man, Welcome to the show,
my guy, mad Max. You was busy this weekend, man,
I saw you. I heard you ran into a keem
at during who I See You fly as ever at
(01:02):
Stack's birthday party. Man, what's happening with you. You're back
on the mountain outside right now, Max, Max is outside
right now.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Man. It was so fucking crazy out day Houston. Anytime
I go there, man, this ship is like my goodness,
make well. I just I can't talk about everything, but.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Yeah, party man.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
I had a wonderful time. Man, it was. It was
a wonderful time.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
It was happy birthday to our brother Stack.
Speaker 4 (01:32):
Man.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
I have this weekend, so I had to live vicariously
through Instagram, but everybody was fly. A big topic leaving
the National Championship game is your brother are keen not
being able to get on the floor. What's the deal
with that?
Speaker 3 (01:46):
Man?
Speaker 1 (01:47):
I saw your tweet.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Yeah, see these weird ass white folks out there in
San Antonio. You know you gotta have motherfuckers doing who damn?
This is logic one. You gotta know who this mother.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
Right. That's a walking credential right there. That's the walking
credential you talking about.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
He don't need no predictions, man. That's why I thought.
I thought my boy was gonna reach up and knock.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
The ship out of him like he hit me. But
he contained his motherfucking self. He contained himself real well.
I spoke, dreaming, I sell the look and then okay,
but but I just thought dreaming put them damn hands
on it the tweet.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
Hell, dream, you need to stop being Muslim for a second,
asked the guy. What did the five fingers stay to
the face? He wanted them to slap the dog ship
out of bro Huh.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
Yeah, man, I had to put that in there, man,
because that was crazy.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Man, come on, man'sous it's ridiculous.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
I gotta know who you're dealing with.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Who you're fucking with, man, it's ridiculous.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Absolutely, did you dream talk about your clipping went viral
on the show?
Speaker 3 (02:46):
Yeah, the slap and ship. Uh. I walked into the venue.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
They had a Legends night over there at the Rockets game,
and I gets okay, see on Friday.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
So I walked up to the venue. I see dreaming.
At first I saw Rudy Tea. I went over the
talks with the tea for a little while. He was
talking me, why you got that blowing up?
Speaker 2 (03:03):
You looking good? I'm happy for you. Then I said,
I said, got that mother for a little slapman.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
So I went over there and dream.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
I was like, dream, what's going all my people's what's
up baby? Dream looked at me and said, mate, why
are you opening up the new the lose that door closed?
Do not talk about that?
Speaker 3 (03:22):
Slap man, dude, why you why you opening all that up? Now?
Speaker 1 (03:27):
That's muster.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
What you do?
Speaker 1 (03:37):
Like?
Speaker 2 (03:37):
God, damn dream Man? Come on now, the ship happened. Man,
you're talking abou damn Man. Don't talking about that anymore.
But Dream, I'm talking about this ship today. Yeah, you
still put your goddamn hands over me though, Man, I said,
But yeah, he just told me.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
To stop talking about it. I ain't gonna never stop
talking about.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
It, ship, he said, I want my lick back. Hey,
speaking of obviously, running in and and and Leed is
like them young Rockets have been cooking lately. Took down
ok See, ended the Warriors five game winning streak. They've
secured most likely the second seed in the Western Conference.
Is this team? For real?
Speaker 4 (04:11):
They're young.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
We've talked about this for a really young team. But
I think Udoka is one of the best coaches in
the league. He's got these boys playing on all cylinders.
What are your thoughts on them?
Speaker 3 (04:20):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (04:20):
They played well on Friday when I was there, Man, shit,
I couldn't I was like, damn Shay act like he
ain't want to play on Friday. But those guys were
locking up. Like I said, they long athletic. I keep saying, man,
and I keep going back to this.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
Man in the playoffs.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Man, I don't know, man, We just like I seen
them lose some games that I thought they was gonna
be into and that they could have that they shouldn't,
you know, to prove a point like Okay, we can
go on the road and beat these teams like Denver
and these guys like that.
Speaker 4 (04:51):
Man.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
So I don't know, man, I just and I love
you Dokah like you said, man, But I just think
that second round is gonna be real, real tough boy.
I mean it might fall against the Lakers or somebody
like that.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
It could be do I mean.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
It's gonna be tough, man, I mean that's it's gonna
be tough. They just don't have that real truth guy
that in a you can identify with, like man Jelina
was talking about for the show. So you can roll
that motherfucker ball out to it and go get me
a goddamn bucket.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
Boy. They got a lot of young talent, and I
definitely think they've embraced the mindset and the attitude of email,
which is you know, in your face defense, tough, hard, nose,
second and third, first ones to the floor that but
we all know come playoff time, experience is a is
a heavy factor and any team can beat anyone on
any given night, but to beat someone in the seven
(05:39):
game series, you have to be the better team.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
So get us a half court game, now, all them down.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
Fast break points ain't there in the playoffs, man, so
you can really gonna have to get into your sets
and be able to run your sets. I mean, you
got to go to your first option, sap. I mean
it's gonna be it's gonna.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
Be tough, man.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
So it's good because again I think this is you know, Okac,
He's been able to get here the last few years
and take their and understand the process and what it
takes and how the game slows down and how every
possession counts. And this is going to be Houston's kind
of with this core. This is going to be the
highest they've been and you know, expected to win, but
a lot of people have upset alert on the Rockets,
(06:15):
So we're definitely gonna have to see one thing I
did want to point out though, is that is they
really put the clamps on Steph. I mean they threw
multiple defenders from Thompson Brooks easton Adam Frazzle. You know,
Steph was complaining, I think one for ten from the
field three points. He may said. Anytime you're complaining about fouls,
you know you've done your job again. That's the one
(06:35):
thing I really like about this team, as they play
with an energy and a physicality that you don't get
to see every night in the NBA. So I'm definitely
looking forward to seeing what this young team does mean too.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
Man.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
Like I said all the time, they got like a
lot of six s eighth, sixty nine, sixty seven guys
they just throw at you. An athletic is hell, you
know what I mean. And all of them dogs, so
they're ready to guard. So, I mean they got that part.
But I just think when they when they really need
to get a bucket, it's gonna be tough in the playoffs,
That's what I keep saying.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
It'll be interesting to see who who who falls in
that seventh spot. Golden State could be in there. There's
a lot of teams that could possibly be in that
seventh spot. So I'm definitely looking forward to seeing who
lands a men Thompson. What's his ceiling? I mean, he's
one of my favorite young players. Him and his brother
have come in this game and showed a different side
of athleticism and IQ and skilled. What are your thoughts
(07:28):
on him? And what is his ceiling?
Speaker 3 (07:30):
A dog?
Speaker 2 (07:31):
He a fucking dog, you know, I mean he, I mean,
he won't the best player. Every fucking night guard you
know out there on the perimeter. He doesn't care, you know.
I mean after and then when I knew it was
a real dog when he grabbed that little motherfucker.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
For mom and swung his head and swung that motherfucker on.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
The what you he wrote when he grabbed he was
around goddamn rad dog. I say, goddamn, that's my guy
right there. I love that motherfucker for the rockets right there.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
But that's my guy. Though, I love him.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
I'm doing something with him this summer too, So I'm
gonna have a golf tournament you gotta come to. But
that's my guy, Yeah, brother. Yeah, there's some dogs though,
but yeah, definitely is a dog man. That's all I
can say. Just a damn natural doll.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
I love it.
Speaker 4 (08:14):
I love it.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
Definitely send the dates. You know, I'm out there for
any kind of golf. I ain't sending Houston in the.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
You know that. Definitely. I got dunking U.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
Okay, shit, I got clothes, but I can always take
some new ones.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
Callaway want to fit you, man, Callaway, want to fit
I'm in. Yeah, I got you.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
I'm in, Yeah, I'm in. I'm in. Our boy joh
Wick joh Moran is in some more trouble. He gotta
fined seventy five thousand for making a gun gesture on
the court twice, not once, twice last week versus the Warriors.
Is this an overreaction to stuff he's done in the past,
because let's be real, a lot of people do it
(08:49):
on all different levels. I mean, shoot or shoot and
they point the guns. But I just kind of feel
like Josh shit is a little different because he's got
caught on Instagram, you know, two different times with a
piece and and lost a lot of money and and
and and had to do all this ship. But the
one thing I will say Verne is I think he's
really going to embrace whether it's self proclaimed or really
thrown upon him. I think he's gonna embrace this villain role.
(09:12):
And I don't know if you guys want to wake
that monster up, because I think he looks for any
little thing to get edges and I think this him you,
I'm gonna show you a bad guy type. What did
he call? We were tripping at the house the other
day when he hit the game winning against UH Miami,
and he called the dude guarding him a pigeon. I'm like,
this dude is hey, this dude is off the chain's different.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
That's my guy, that's my guy.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
Thoughts on him, I know it's daddy. I mean, I mean,
I love the family man. That's my guy. But Joe
got a cheer with all that shit, you know what
I mean, because I mean you already got a reputation.
I mean Jo, I mean, come on, John, this Uncle
Max talking to you. God damn baby, we got a
god damn like trying to change the narrative now a
(09:56):
little bit, you know what I mean. The world is
going to be the face of the NBA one time.
Now you're the villain, Okay, That's who I was. So
I mean you can embrace the villain part and shit
and be a villain. But still, man, keep that goddamn
money in your goddamn pocket. Boy, I'm trying to tell you, man,
say that motherfucking money man, because I wish i'd. I mean,
(10:16):
I know you motherfuckers make way more money than what
the fuck I was making, But I won't give a fuck.
Man say that money. Man, Be more professional about what
you're doing. Man, you'll get more the deals.
Speaker 3 (10:26):
And what you're getting.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
Boy, well, there's no question I think. You know, obviously
he was on the trajectory to be the face of
the league, hands down, and I think obviously all the
stuff that's come as way negative is unfortunately been self
self inflicted. You know, obviously he got hurt, but the
off the court trouble, it wasn't because of anyone else
doing anything. It's because of him, and that affects the
bottom line across the board, because I mean his he
(10:47):
has a great shoe, and his shoe was on pace
to this is right when Kyrie was leaving, so they
needed the shoe to take it. And how I judge
shoes is how many shoes do I see it the
AU tournament and obviously in Josh shoe on everybody and
now I don't and now I don't, you know what
I mean. So that's affecting the bottom line. And both
you and I were villains, and and and all this
(11:08):
comes from a loving perspective. Is it's okay to embrace
that ship. But he has to realize something that he's
in that upper and he's in that superstar stratus. He's
in the superstar stratus with one of the best American players.
We talk about the you know, the the the over
overseas dominance of great Jaws, one of the great American
hopes that we have him and Tatum, you know, Booker,
(11:28):
there's a handful of guys that we have that you
know that we're gonna put our hat on, and he
has to be one of them. So I hope that
he kind of he gets this shit out of his system.
At the end of the day, you never want anything
to be louder than your play. And unfortunately the antics,
the antics have been louder than his play. And I
just hope for the sake of him and his greatness, uh,
he allows his play to get back to the forefront
(11:49):
because I think as fans, that's all we want to
see Max. Max is coming to La next week. Man,
I can't wait. I got my outfits already laid. I
got my outfits already laid. Yeah, what were doing?
Speaker 2 (12:00):
Oh I'm gonna have mine too. Oh I'm ready. Hey,
y'all getting ready, mad Mask.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
Yeah, definitely, we're gonna be live streaming next week shooting
some content. Really excited again to have you in the
family and have you out man. But thank you for
joining me today and ship. We'll see you in LA
next week.
Speaker 4 (12:19):
Bro.
Speaker 3 (12:20):
Appreciate it. Man, have me on plug man.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
Hey, y'all, have a good day, man, stay best my people,
burn one for old Max.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
Now I want to welcome one of my personal friends,
one of the good guys in the game, Phil Handy Phil.
What's up man, My.
Speaker 4 (12:33):
Guy, Matt?
Speaker 1 (12:33):
How's everything?
Speaker 4 (12:34):
Everything's good man, It's good to be here. Hey.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
You're normally really prepping for the playoffs right now and
kind of getting them playoff grind. What does it kind
of feel like, you know, for the first time in
a lot of years to kind of just have your
april not doing that.
Speaker 4 (12:47):
Miss it. It's been an adjustment, you know, just being
used to being in, like you said, playoff Mold preparing
end of the season for me, man, it's been a
great it's been a great mental physical breakset to just
kind of step away and reset, man, and really be
able to watch the game from Afar and.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
Just as a fan. Now it don't have to be exus.
Speaker 4 (13:09):
No, I don't have no emotional attachments. You know. I
still still watch a lot of the guys that I've
had a chance to coach. You know, Look, I watch Austin,
you know, I watched RUI. Obviously me and Bron have
a lot of history. But being able to watch from
Afar and see these guys and just like you said,
not not having any attachment and being happy for them
(13:32):
whether they win, whether they lose, it's a it's a good,
good feeling to be there.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
You brought up Austin reeves, in my opinion, the best
third option in the game, but of late his numbers
have been off the chart. Did you see that in him?
Speaker 4 (13:49):
Younger?
Speaker 1 (13:50):
Is this this new? Because to me, it's all confidence.
Obviously he works on this game, but I think it's
the belief in himself that he can go out there
and do it night and night out. And he's at
what is his last ten games or I mean games
plas six.
Speaker 5 (14:01):
Fourteen, He's twenty six, five and five shooting forty five
fifty ninety five.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
And keep it real, he might have one of the
deepest bags in the game. With our other brother Kyrie
on the sideline right now. I mean that's I mean, Phil,
what's going on?
Speaker 4 (14:14):
Phil?
Speaker 1 (14:15):
I know you put some groceries in that bag.
Speaker 4 (14:18):
I saw that from day one? Did you really day one? Look?
I tell this story. The first time I met Austin,
he was playing for our summer league team. He went undrafted.
He went undrafted. He was playing for our summer league team,
and I had never really I never met him, but
I saw clips of him playing college. So people think
(14:39):
this is just now matter. If you go back and
you watch a couple of his games at Oklahoma, he
got some shit with him like he back then. I
was like, hold up, man, just the chip on his shoulder,
and so I saw it. I went to the summer
league game and he wasn't shooting the ball, and it
was crazy. You asked Austin today. It was halftime. I
(15:01):
walked over and say, man, come here. Never met. I said,
you want to make this team, you need to shoot
the fucking ball, Like bro, you out here said, shoot
the ball man, you want to make this team. So
you know, that second half he played well. But when
Summer League was over and I had a chance to
get in the gym with him, right away, I saw
(15:21):
it and it wasn't so much his skill or his
shot making. It was just his inner belief. Like that
kid had had a SUPERB chip on his shoulder. Man,
and people people don't really know like his story. He
went through Summer League. You know that year, his first year,
we had Russ, we had Carmelo, we had Trevor, We
(15:43):
had all these veterans on our team, right and that
was you know, we had our little bron has his
little camp in Vegas. We had our mini camp. Austin
Reeves was the best player in the gym. He was
the best player in the gym and he started out
as a two way. When that camp was over, the
Lakers signed him.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
I love to hear shit like that.
Speaker 4 (16:05):
And so he just b his moxie, his his confidence.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
And it doesn't come up not to cut you out.
It doesn't come off as cockiness. His confidence and belief
in himself. I felt that when I'm around him. You know,
he told an interesting story. We interviewed him, and he's
just like you know. They figured that they had a
couple of chances to possibly get picked later in the
second round, and they told the teams not to draft them,
and him and his team did a study and found
out that the Lakers would be a great fit for him.
And to see him tell that story, to hear the
(16:32):
stories you told us, and just to see where he is.
Is it five years later? For is it year four?
It's year four, year four? To me? Naming better third
I don't think you can name it better if that's
your third option.
Speaker 4 (16:42):
That's doing this third option. And my vote for most
improved player. People not talking about they're not like that.
He should be in that category. And if not, the leader,
tell me another player, tell me another player that's played.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
You can't to that level.
Speaker 4 (16:57):
And just the body of work man.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
And on that stage, I mean, I feel we all know.
I mean, coming to this Laker stage is a lot
that you could be a killer somewhere else, but it
takes a real killer to be madam.
Speaker 4 (17:08):
You see Austin. Austin is a hoodie sweats.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
He's he'll billy, he's hill billy golf.
Speaker 4 (17:14):
He don't he don't care about none of that. Yeah,
you know for him the lights that man whatever, Hooper,
let's go Hoop.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
I love it man, Congratulations bro, keep doing your thing.
Unrivaled first year in existence. From a coaching standpoint and
just a fan of the game, how did you drive?
Speaker 4 (17:29):
How'd you like it? Totally different game? Like who man
that listen? That three on three full court concept is
pretty dope. Like it's it's dope to coach it. It's
tough for the athletes to play it. But just the
whole concept of being able to play in space shortened court.
You know, you just think about when you go to
a gym and you get a couple of dudes and
(17:50):
you play three on three full court. It's a good workout.
This is a little bit of a shortened court. It's
customized to it. And man, I just the game is
fast paced, it's physical. You know a lot of people
didn't really understand just these ladies are physical and they
play fast in this setting. So one, you better be
in shape. Two you better be able to defend just
(18:13):
a little bit, not just a little bit, right, you
get put on that island on three on three in
a full course setting, it's pretty tough, but man, just
the whole concept. Unrival did a great job in their
first year. You know, there's always some kinks and things
you got to figure out, but to pull this off
the way they did in such a ginormous way for
(18:35):
these ladies, man, was it was a big time, big
time opportunity for the ladies, for the coaches, everybody involved.
It was really good.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
I know you've always been close to the women's game
and trained it and coached it now, but are there
some of the lays that surprised you still? Yes, during
this run.
Speaker 4 (18:53):
Man, listen for me having an opportunity to really step
into the W and and be in their environment. Man,
it's some hoopers and I was completely not caught off guard.
But just like I wasn't familiar, Like I knew a
lot of the ladies and seen them play, but to
see them up close and see them some of these
(19:13):
ladies that probably don't get a chance to do on
their teams in the W they were able to come
to Unrivaled and just showcase, at least for me, some
things that I hadn't seen. So like Alyssa Gray, Alicia,
I want to make sure I pronounced I had not
seen her play. She was out there getting to it,
you know, like she was hitting threes, you know, in
(19:35):
the handle and I mean just playing free. So for me,
that's one example, Like even I had never really been
around Courtney Vandersloup, you know, savvy Vet just really there's
a list, man, there's a long list of being able
to watch these ladies up close. It was really eye
opening for me, but not in the sense of being surprised.
(19:57):
I knew they can hoop, but when you get close
to them, like, okay, I'll take it.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
Really it's different too. I mean you'll see fans would
see if NBA guys are playing in the summer, that
freedom to kind of play your game and not have
to play your role as a whole other monster, and
you get to see different sides and really how good
people are you.
Speaker 4 (20:15):
Know, work on your craft? Right? Look, I think that's
where this is where I unvivled for the women's game.
A lot of people ask me, We'll where can the
women's game grow? The development piece in the side, they
don't have time to develop most of these ladies what
they played in w and then they go to Europe, right,
so they play year round or then they have some
Olympic responsibilities. This was the first time that this group
(20:39):
of ladies said, I'm not gonna go to Europe. We're
gonna take ten weeks and we're gonna work on our
game and then we're gonna play. So they had an
opportunity to really understand what do these NBA guys do
seasons over what they do. They take care of the bodies,
they go work in the game. There's a development piece.
So I think that's where the w or women's basketball
on the highest level is gonna see the biggest growth.
(21:01):
Now they have time to really focus on the development.
Let me focus on my body, let me get in
the weight room, let me do all these other things
that we've never done before. And I think the curve
is going to take maybe three to five years for
them to get used to it, for the coaches to
get used to it, and then just that become part
of just the whole women's ecosystem of how how they improved.
(21:21):
Do you think it's a good question? You know, I
think you will. I would be if I was a
betting man. You know, I think you can see it.
I think this year for her, she needed the break.
She went right from college into the w so she
again just not having no time off. I would be
surprised if she if she never plays.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
Shout out to everybody. I mean the concept, the execution,
the ability to pay these women some good money so
that they can do everything you spoke about. What was
the what were the facilities like and rooming, everything was
where it needed to.
Speaker 4 (21:54):
Be, excellent, top notch. So they picked you know, they
took this sound stage kind of place out Durral, Florida,
which is out by the airport, and they gutted the
whole place, built an arena custom arena said about nine
hundred people. They built a practice court behind the arena.
They had a weight room, hot cold tub, sauna, nutrition,
(22:18):
recovery everything. They had daycare, they had podcast studios, they
had estheticians, they had a makeup room. But they went
all out.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
It's well, the shit you don't think of, you know, care,
it's just shit you don't think of. These women have to,
you know, hurdle over to be able to accomplish their goals.
So man shout out to everybody in unrival Man beautiful
first season. Definitely looking forward to the second season. On
a little bit of a sour note. Juju and Kyrie
both acls, two people you know very well to put
(22:51):
people you've worked very closely with. Have you got a
chance to speak to them? And what's this journey like?
I don't think a lot of people understand the journey
from injuries like this, the dark days, the days I
want to say fucking quit, the good days and the
better Like, what is this journey going to be like
for both of them in two different stages of their career.
Speaker 4 (23:10):
Yeah. Man, I've talked to both of them numerous times since,
you know, been on FaceTime with Kyrie a few times.
Kay gets it. You know, he's been he's he's been
injured before. So his mind of just understanding what this
process is like is for him, it's like, I'm just
gonna take the time, get my body right, get my
(23:30):
mind right, spend time with my family.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
And I like he show he's talking a little bit more.
He's kind of coming out.
Speaker 4 (23:34):
Of his streams and people are going to get a
chance to see another side of Kay. So for him, man,
this is not what he wanted, you know, obviously with
the degree of some of the things that happened with
their team. But he's in a good place man, in
the sense of just understanding what this is about, and
so he's he's prepared for the journey.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
You know.
Speaker 4 (23:52):
Juju, on the other hand, was a little different. You know,
young athletes. Just the first time she's ever been injured,
and you know, just a natural thing as a young athlete,
her own personal goals. Just in the NCAA tournament, the
expectations and the first couple of days for her were
really tough just from a mental standpoint. But man, she's
(24:14):
got a great her inner circle, her family, her parents.
You know, I had a chance to talk with her
a number of times. We went to lunch, and she's
on the other side of that now. Yeah, she's like,
She's like, Phil, I'm man, I'm ready. I'm gonna come
back stronger. I understand that this is gonna be good
for me. I can work on my body. I get
a chance to work on other parts of the game
from a mental standpoint, you know, let me let me
(24:37):
understand the game from an IQ standpoint and dive into
those areas. So she's already she's already tracking in the
sense of I'm gonna be ready for this to come back.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
It's a mental monster, and I think what's different is
that this is, unfortunately, but to their benefits, more of
a common injury Now. Aco used to be a huge
deal back in the day. Now it's a little, it's
more common. Medicine has improved. I'm definitely decided to see,
you know, her journey and her growth and you know,
obviously can Kai back out there and him kind of
showing different sides and kind of, like you said, understanding
what it is now. I mean, even with Juju's injury,
(25:09):
she damn near swept the award season, would an award,
AP Player of the Year, Natesmith Player of the Year,
Women's us USB A, us b w A Player of
the Year. I mean, what have you seen before injury again,
because you've been working with for a long time, just
kind of those steps that she's gradually been making.
Speaker 4 (25:28):
You know what I love about her this year, Matt.
We obviously, you know, before I left one on arrival,
you know, we work out at least twice a week.
But when I left, she was like film, you know,
let's let's we gotta get on zoom. We gotta watch film.
So we we were trying to watch film at least
once a week, on zoom take some of her games
and just the student. The student part of the game
(25:50):
is where she's really trying to have the growth. I
think a lot of people look at Juju and just
see her talent, but she's like talked about her just
having her basketball IQ rise to the same level as
her talent.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
Gary Boy scared.
Speaker 4 (26:07):
That's where she's That's where I really love. Like we
would watch film and she was always always curious, what
about this, how do I read this? Okay, what's what's here?
And that part of the game for her, I saw
a lot of growth in terms of just her understanding
just her gravity and then how can I how can
I get better at making my teammates better? And so
(26:28):
just you know, just that part of the game for her.
Man she was She's always been very open to understanding
it's more to it, and then you know her, she
used the word anxious. She's like, sometimes I feel anxious
when I'm on the floor. In terms of scoring, I'm like, Jude,
you got the ball every possession. You don't have to
be anxious, right, the ball's gonna find you. So now,
(26:49):
how can you just slow the game down? Read the game?
If your teammates are open, throw them just a simple pass.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
Just though that next level, that mental side. I know
that's something he wants to dominate as well, like that
mental aspect and focus. And I've told this story before,
but just him understanding. We were on a flight to
Spain and he had a bunch of courts and he
was figuring out where the rest of us were going
to be open at because he's watching the guy. Now,
he's not watching the guy guarden him. He has one
eye on the help and the other eye on the
(27:16):
third defender. So where do I see you guys open that.
It's just that next level. And like you said, for
her mental, if her mental catches up to her skill set,
she has a chance to be the greatest coming ever.
Speaker 4 (27:29):
It's coming. Well you heard it from Matt, you hear
from me.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
Yeah, I ain't gonna lie to you. Speaking of the
breakdown dynamic, I mean, we've been talking about what are
we gonna do together? And then obviously unrivaled happened. But
we need to put our plan together. Man, we got
to get you in the mix, in the loop. You're
already a part of the family, but we really got
to put your because I think your mind is incredibly
You're just you're you're, You're a Jedi when it comes
to this ship, and not only on the court, but
(27:54):
off the court, the mental side, and the film side,
and the breakdown side and the visionary side of it.
So we definitely gotta get back.
Speaker 4 (28:00):
I don't know if they're ready for it, Matt ready
or not.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
Motherfucker, I don't know they're ready for it.
Speaker 4 (28:05):
We're gonna go deep into the bag man looking forward
to breaking news.
Speaker 3 (28:10):
The Nuggets just fired Mike Malono.
Speaker 4 (28:13):
They lost four to row.
Speaker 3 (28:15):
And they just fired him now And this is the
second coach that this laten season. This doesn't happen.
Speaker 4 (28:20):
So they fired the Grizzlies coach season the four games
before at the end of the regular.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
Seasons, going to coach at one of the Yoga's brothers, Zan Keith.
This late the season is crazy. I mean, normally I
see if around All Star, but I mean, you're a
week from the playoff, two weeks from the playoffs, you're
the fourth seed right now, a game and a half
back from the third seed, and your coach is gone.
Speaker 5 (28:43):
Game Peel, you played in the league forever I've had
I've coached the league for fourteen man right now, I'm
trying to I am the NBA in turn to look
that that phrase, I've used this phrase for people as
coaches of us.
Speaker 4 (29:01):
We get hired to get fired. That is a real
phrase in the NBA. And it's unfortunate, like you always
try to wonder, like what the hell is going on
behind closed doors for Mike Malone to get fired, what's
going on behind closed doors for Taylor Jenkins to get fired?
And again it's a it's an unfortunate part of the business.
(29:21):
But I'm I'm completely shocked, it's crazy by that one.
And it's just as coaches, we know we come into
this environment, the great Popovitch of the world, the Steve
Curz of the world, you know, the Eric Sposer of
the world. That's their tenures. Those those tenures, man, are
those it's not it's not used to if you're a
(29:43):
head coach or if you're on a coaching staff somewhere
for four or five years, that's great, that's great longevity.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
Because obviously it's more and we're not insinuating that had
anything to do with the players, but just the players
run the league now like there used to be a
line of of respect for coaches. And there was the
coaches where the highway when I came to the league
in the early two thousands. Now it's the players wear
the highway. And again I'm not we're not insinuated by
any means this is a player move or anything like that.
It's just the players have more power now, so the
(30:13):
tenures of coaches are it's always going to be the coach.
It's going to be the scapego because the players are
making too much money.
Speaker 4 (30:17):
That's the part of business that I have a problem
with in terms of how coaches are always the one
that's thrown under the bus. Look, everybody has a job
to do, right. I always say you have a job.
I make no qualms about it. But there's so much
stuff that goes into that that the coach is always
the first one at the doorstep, and there's always other
(30:38):
pieces to it. You know, there could be there could
be some decisions that the front office may have made
for your team that you had nothing to do with, Right,
but your adult your dealt the cards of having to
coach certain guys and if they don't play well, it's
your fault.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
You're the one their decisions they made.
Speaker 4 (30:54):
Yeah. Sometimes so it's there's always a bigger picture to it, man.
Speaker 1 (30:57):
So always more to it. Man, very solid coach, MANBA champion.
I've heard I've heard a lot of people speak really
highly of Mike Moves. I'm sure you know when he's ready,
he'll land back on his feet. But four games before
the playoffs is insane. The men's tournament, we just watched
the culmination, uh the other night of the championship. Before
we get there, I want to talk about Duke and
(31:19):
obviously them slipping up and execution down the stretch wasn't
what it needed to be to get past Houston. But
Cooper Flag potential number one pick in the draft. As
a basketball mind, what do you like and what have
you seen from Cooper Man?
Speaker 4 (31:32):
His size, his athleticism, his mobility, just just his overall skill.
I've really been surprised by the kid, because again I
didn't have a chance to really watch him in high school,
but just what I've seen of him at Duke Man,
that kid is a kid has has a has a
deep deep too. His bag is pretty deep.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
And he got a motor. That's one of my what
I'm talking.
Speaker 4 (31:55):
About, Like, you don't usually don't see kids with that size,
like his motor, like the ability, and just how he
plays the game. It's gonna resonate well at the next
long any reclass.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
He jumped up when everyone's trying to hold back two three,
four years and be twenty seven or twenty eight playing
college basketball.
Speaker 4 (32:11):
That's rare.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
He was a real seventeen year old when he came
to college.
Speaker 4 (32:14):
That's rare right there.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
So Bechel definitely looking forward to seeing what he does
on the next So there was whispers him possibly going
back one more year. I don't think that's gonna I
think there's too much money on the table. But shit,
if anyone can do it, it'll be Cooper.
Speaker 4 (32:27):
You live in that college life.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
It's great.
Speaker 4 (32:30):
People don't understand.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
And now hold ony too. Now you get some money
ten million next to that college life.
Speaker 4 (32:36):
Man, you the king.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
I got twenty five hundred every three months. You couldn't
tell me shit.
Speaker 4 (32:42):
Can Look, if he's decided to stay, he's an il deal.
It's not like he's not gonna make them money. Kid
will make some money.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
And he'll have the insurance clause. Sure make sure everything
is good on the other side. But I would love
to see him play with the boozer boys. Florida crazy game.
You get a chance to watch the game, only watch
part of it.
Speaker 4 (32:58):
Great, you see the whole thing.
Speaker 1 (32:59):
Houston is some fucking dogs. Calvin Sampson had them boys
playing out of their mind. But Florida, to me, stayed in,
you know, striking distance. And Clayton didn't have the best game,
but I think his teammates held him down the entire
time and they were able to. You know, we were
watching the game. I was like, yo, if he gets
if he gets the double digits, he gets twelve, thirteen,
fourteen points, they're gonna win. And sure enough, he hit
(33:20):
it some you know, three down the stretch, got to
the foul line, saw the ball go through the hoop,
and Florida was able to pull off a good one.
Speaker 4 (33:28):
Man. So is it Todd Todd? Is it Todd Gholsting?
Is how you pronounced his last name? Head coach?
Speaker 1 (33:34):
Now?
Speaker 4 (33:34):
I'm saying it because I used to I used to
train Todd. Did you really he was at Saint Mary's College?
Speaker 1 (33:39):
Is he the youngest or one of the youngest coaches
that ever win it?
Speaker 4 (33:42):
Right?
Speaker 1 (33:42):
Since like Jim Valvano or something, right, yeah. Also zero
five stars in the final game.
Speaker 4 (33:47):
And Todd is man, congrats young fella. But sniper, he
himself was a sniper. Really shoot that thing man. So
just seeing him on the sidelines and seeing his his
growth mm hm is incredible. Man. Extremely happy for him
and what he's been able to do. But just what
I did see was Florida this year when I had
(34:07):
a chance to watch just a cohesiveness as a team,
the unit, like there is no that is a team
and understanding, now, look, we're we're gonna all do this
and tip in and do it together. And that's what
you see, you know, for them to be able to
be national champions.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
The most valuable player of the Final four was a
zero star basketball recruit. Right, he was a football player first?
Speaker 4 (34:29):
Right?
Speaker 1 (34:29):
Or is that the other guy that was a football
player but just zero stars and he ends up being
the most valuable player in the Final four and winning
a national championship. The game has changed, feel too. And
then this is something I haven't necessarily been a fan of,
but I understand it because it's it's an option. But
just the age of kids playing outside of this duke team,
a lot of these teams were older teams that you know,
(34:51):
had three star, maybe some four star guys that have
been around, but no real five star. And on the
flip side, I think, you know the egos. You know,
I'm not saying five stars be tripping, but a good
chunk of five stars kind of have a different mindset.
But these teams are getting these older guys that have
kind of been around for a while and then able
to build teams with them and make you look at
the Auburns and you know, you look at you look
(35:13):
at Houston, you know, have some older guys. The new
landscape of college basketball I'm not a big fan of. Again,
I understand, I don't blame the players by any means.
I don't blame the coaches by any means, but you know,
I saw Rick Patino at one point say, hey, this offseason,
we're not recruiting any high school kids. What can the
high school kid do? And it just got me thinking,
like college is supposed to be for kids trying to
turn into men, and now the college is for men
(35:34):
with kids taking time away from other kids.
Speaker 4 (35:38):
Yeah, man, I'm with you on that. Man. I think
there's so many caveats college game. Now one college basketball
is not what it used to be. It's free agency. Now.
Now look, I'm all for the athletes. I love that
the kids are getting paid, right, But what the NCAA
has done, they just created the wild wild West. To me,
no boundaries, no rules in the sense of of with
(36:01):
the n I LS. Right, you talk about the nils
and these contracts, how can you help prepare these young
men to be professional athletes? Right? So give them some boundaries.
All right, fine, we're gonna we're gonna pay you and
give you n I L. But you signed this contract,
whether it be two years, then you're committed to that
contract or you have to pay the buy out one
of the rules, right, make some rules to where everybody's protected. Coaches, players,
(36:24):
all all alike. But the portal. And again I've learned,
been learning more. That's what has exiled high school kids.
You know, now you and then you take all of
these rules. Now, what's the new rules? Junior college players
have junior college years or they don't count. I went
to JUCO, you know, and so when no one out,
Juko only had two years left or a year left.
(36:45):
Now these are exemple So look, I think there's two
sides of it. As a coach, I would like mature players. Right,
As a coach, you want mature players. That kind of
really hurts the young players because some of them are
gonna need time to to raise that level of maturity,
not just mentally but physically the whole piece. So you
(37:07):
take these guys that are four year, five year, six years,
sixth year, I mean it's now you have a team
of experienced players that.
Speaker 1 (37:16):
And it shows like we know the game and understanding.
That's why we don't blame the players or the coaches,
because I mean, you want to win. But that's the
one reason why I was rooting for Duke, because Duke
had four freshmen that were instrumental in their run.
Speaker 4 (37:27):
You got you got two.
Speaker 1 (37:28):
Boys, Yeah you go, I'm coming with the two young
bucks that you boys.
Speaker 4 (37:34):
Yeah, you want opportunity boys to go through.
Speaker 1 (37:38):
And like I said, it was just it was weird
because you know, when we're you're a little bit older
than me. When we were coming up, we always played
always played up. We never wanted to play down. We
never wanted to hold back or hold back twice like
what like what are you running from? Like I was
in eighth grade walking across street, playing with the varsity team,
like and just just the game has changed so much.
Speaker 4 (37:54):
That's why you get better. Yeah, get your head cracked.
Speaker 1 (37:56):
Because there's only so much you can running, you can
do only so much jumping in the port, transfering. I'm
hitting some adversity, I'm not gonna take it on the
chin and I'm gonna run.
Speaker 4 (38:03):
Get tired of get tired of getting whooped. That's what
that's only, that's what motivates you. Be Like, Okay, what
I'm coming back for y'all?
Speaker 1 (38:11):
Phil, We're gonna see you back in the league. What's
going on?
Speaker 2 (38:13):
Man?
Speaker 1 (38:13):
I know that's the personal question, But is that something
are we gonna Is that something you're looking into this?
You know, obviously having a nice little break and doing
something different with the unrivaled, but when we see you
back in the NBA eighties.
Speaker 4 (38:24):
Yeah, man, I'm looking out for now. Man, I'm a
coach at like I'm a coach at hard now. So
for me, it's really about the right opportunity. I've had
a chance to as a coach, experience everything, winning at
the highest level, experienced coaching some of the best players.
I just want to be able to continue to impact
the game. With the players and then whatever organization, I'm
(38:46):
working for the value of what I bring as a
coach in terms of the development. That's just the easy.
But I think people don't really a lot of people
don't understand who I am as a coach with the
x'es and O's.
Speaker 1 (38:57):
Talk about that because I think you've been laid well
rightfully so, because you are one of the best in
that space, is one of the best player development. But
there's so much more to your coaching and to your philosophy.
And I think sometimes labels, even if people think it's oh,
he's one of the best developing, there's so much more
to you and that label can sometimes hurt you when
organizations are looking for can this guy run my franchise?
(39:18):
M And I'm a firm believer there's people like you
and Rico Hines that can be head coaches of NBA
teams but are labeled as developing guys.
Speaker 4 (39:27):
I mean, you got to start somewhere. Everybody evolves, everybody
gets better. You name me one head coach that's in
the NBA now that started out where they are. They
all came in some way, whether they were video coordinators
or scouts, and they work their way up into being
in that position. My journey is no different, man, just's
(39:49):
I want to say, it's a blessing and a curse
sometimes because I've been really good at my job, right,
but in that process, man, Man, you want to talk
about my education, the coaches that I've coached under, I
have a high level education. Mike Brown, Mike D'Antoni, t Lou,
David Blatt, Nick Nurse, Frank Vogel, you know, even Darvin
(40:13):
Ham Like, that's some high level coaches. And my bag
of understanding the game from a defense and an offense
and schemes. Man, I have probably the best, one of
the best to mentor and tutoring aspects of understanding the
game from all different angles. And so for me, it's
(40:34):
just just the right opportunity, man. You know, I don't
I don't feel bad or get angry that people try
to put me in that box. It's just, you know,
when the time comes and I have an opportunity to
interview for the right people, they will understand about my
knowledge and who I am. I am as a coach.
The development piece is just that was just my avenue
to become an NBA coach, and so over the years,
(40:56):
I've had a chance to really grow and become better
at my craft.
Speaker 1 (41:00):
We'll feel man, thank you for you.
Speaker 3 (41:03):
Calvin Booth.
Speaker 4 (41:06):
Booth's third year.
Speaker 1 (41:07):
He came in for Conley, who is the one that
really put that team together.
Speaker 4 (41:11):
In the Minnesota right Something's going on internally, man, Yeah,
something something internally behind the doors.
Speaker 1 (41:17):
Calvin Booth is out, Mike Malone is out four games
before the playoffs. Ship is going on in Denver. Stay tuned,
Stay tuned because to me, I mean Denver is still
one of those teams that has the pedigree and they're
an older team because the West is top heavy with
young teams. So we know, you know, to beat the
team seven times in.
Speaker 4 (41:37):
The mix.
Speaker 1 (41:40):
If you want to losing for in a row before that,
you know, I mean, just is that reason to fire something.
We'll peel. Appreciate your time, man, We'll definitely catch up.
Speaker 4 (41:49):
Appreciate you.
Speaker 1 (41:51):
Yeah, no doubt. That's a wrap for Unplugged. Hope you
guys enjoyed this week. You can catch this on the
DraftKings Network and all the Smokest Productions YouTube. We'll see
you guys this week.
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Stephen Jackson
Matt Barnes
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