July 17, 2023 • 32 mins
Flaviu recruits Cristian Vintila, a Romanian government official, to help him facilitate the arms deal for Juan. But Cristian has some concerns.
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Soundcheck one, two three.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Okay, what's your name?
Speaker 3 (00:08):
Alex Delesco.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
My colleague Nicole McNulty is getting set up with Alex,
who's about to read from a script we've put together.
And what do you do for a living?
Speaker 3 (00:18):
I'm a professional actor here in London. I am originally
from Romania.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Can you read that top line?
Speaker 3 (00:25):
We talked in his car in front of the building.
He explained to wait, I've flubbed that. Let me try again.
We talked in his car in front of the building.
He explained to me who he is. He showed me
a list of weapons and ammunition on his phone. Then
he sent me that list to my phone.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
Alex is reading lines of court testimony given by a
guy named Christian Vntilla. So in this episode and future ones,
Alex will be the voice of Christian. Everything you'll hear
comes verbatim from Christians testimony in court. The words are
(01:08):
all Christians. After the armsteel goes sideways and Christian turns
against Flavio.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
Okay, okay, I'm ready to start.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Christian wanted nothing to do with me or this show.
Here's what he told me in an email.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
I don't care about what flav you said or did?
They are a lot of lights and fakes.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
I'm Trevor Aronson from Western Sound to My Heart podcast.
This is Alphabet Boys, Episode seven. Let's make this happen. Bro.
(02:11):
Before we get going with this episode, I want to
give you a quick recap because the story of Flavio,
Juan and the supposed arms deal can get a little confusing.
Back in twenty twelve, Juan asks Flavio's friend Andy if
he knows a guy who can help put together an
arms deal for the farc Andy says he has someone
(02:31):
who can make stuff happen. So Andy calls Flavio. Andy
asks him if he can put together an arms deal
for these Colombians. Flavio says yeah, maybe. Immediately after hanging
up with Andy, Flavio calls the CIA. Two years past
and in twenty fourteen, Flavio stands up Juan in Rome,
(02:55):
but he says he can still make a deal Happenavio
puts one in touch with a guy named Gentaudis, the
arms dealer who smells a rat. What I haven't told
you is how gin Taudis got on Flavio's radar, and
that connection was through this guy, Christian Ventilla.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
I was General Secretary of the State Reserves and then
General Director with the Ministry of Internal Affairs.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
By the time Flavio meets him. Christian Ventilla is a
divorced father of two and a high ranking government minister
in Romania. He heads an agency that coordinates between the
Romanian government and the NATO Alliance based in Brussels.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
It's part of my job. I was registered as a
weapon control for NATO in Brussels, and for this reason
I was trained in different missions.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
Christian grew up in Baco, a city of about two
hundred thousand people northeast of Bucharest, the capital. After obtaining
a doctorate in project management, Christian became a government official
thanks to his association with a Romanian politician surrounded by
accusations of corruption. Anyway, now I'm going to put Christian
(04:10):
into this whole timeline. After Flavio decides to get involved
in the arms deal, he starts hunting around for people
who could connect him with arms dealers, and that's when
a mutual contact connected Flavio with Christian.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
He introduced Flavi Georgesco as a Romanian American businessman who
had an order for weapons and ammunition.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
This is the first time Flavio and Christian meet. Flavio
drives a Christian's apartment building in Bucharest. Christian comes out front.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
We talked in his car in front of the building.
He explained to me who he is. He showed me
a list of weapons and ammunition on his phone, then
he sent me that least to my phone. He told
me that he's very interested, that it is a serious order,
and to reassure me, he called on the phone and
(05:03):
the Georgie school and put him on the speaker because
he speaks Romanian.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
Also according to Christian, and this conversation in Flavio's car
isn't recorded. Andy, speaking in Romanian, tells Christian and Flavio
about one.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
The order is coming from some old customers of his
and it is a very serious order and he's going
to get implicated by managing the financial side of disorder.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
In the car, Christian tells Andy that based on the
weapons on One's lists, including AK forty sevens and anti
aircraft weapons, he believes he can line up a manufacturer
to fill the order.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
I suggested that they should get in touch directly Gin
Totus with the Colombians he knew the products, and he
knew what he can offer and what not.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
As you may remember, flow connects one with gin Taudis.
Guintaudis pretty quickly and correctly suspects that one is a
government agent. Gintaudus sends an angry email with a link
to a news article but a successful deea sting in
Prague involving informants who claim to be buying weapons for
(06:18):
the farc. That email gets to Christian, who confronts Flavia.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
I talked to Georgiesco about this thing, telling him about
the Czech article and explaining to him that Quintotus is
suspecting that it's the same kind of sting.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
He said, let me tell you something, and he put
up a paper. He shows thing operation from Czech Republic
from Prague with same one and everybody said, it's impossible.
Speaker 4 (06:44):
It's the same temple's the same thing.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
For Christian, this must have been an enormous red flag,
but Flavio, in his Flavio way, assures Christian that there's
no reason for concern.
Speaker 4 (06:57):
Isaimeh, just trust me, this is just a coincidence.
Speaker 3 (07:02):
He knows the Colombians and he previously did business with them,
and I shouldn't worry about it.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
Flavio needs to keep Christian in the business deal to
supposedly gather information for the CIA. But and I have
to admit this is bizarre. Given what happens later. Flavio
also suspects that one could be with the DEA.
Speaker 4 (07:27):
So what, I didn't care about what's going on over
here in this side.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
I was caidring what I find in this site using
Juan right now, the goofy clown.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
As far as Flavio is concerned. So what that just
means he and Juan are both friends of America.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
And I said, you know what, if we don't die,
but at least today and we're gonna have something.
Speaker 4 (07:47):
I didn't care anymore. I was going too far.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
I was so excited and so proud, and still I
have so many things and I can do so much.
Speaker 4 (07:58):
That means I'm gonna keep going.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
Yeah, here we arrive at yet another problem in Flavio's story.
Flavio received these warnings that one could be a US
government agent. The DEA had been so aggressive in its
transnational narco terrorism stings that the targets of other stings
(08:22):
were figuring out the DEA's game from news reports. Yet
Flavio doesn't back out of the deal, and he doesn't
contact the CIA to report the DEA's possible involvement. He
just continues, knowing that it's possible, maybe even likely, that
(08:43):
he and Wan are playing for the same team. One
just doesn't know it yet. So if Flavio can build
a case, even with Wan mixed up in it, no
big deal. The DEA and CIA would sort everything out
in the end, So Flavio keeps his suspicions to himself.
(09:05):
He tells Christian, don't worry about it. He knows one,
he's done business with one, even though that isn't true.
Flavio's never even met Wan at this point.
Speaker 5 (09:18):
How are you good?
Speaker 6 (09:21):
Yeah, I mean german good.
Speaker 5 (09:24):
I was. I was just at the beach. I just
get back anyway.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
And at the same time, Flavio assures One that they
don't need this gen toutist guy anyway. I still I.
Speaker 5 (09:36):
Still coming on on the twenty second, and I think
we all need to meet and see if we can
come up with a plan either what this gentleman, or
maybe you can't help me to solve you know that?
Do you talk to him? I am wanted to look
for different, different solution.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
By looking for a different solution, Flavio means he and
Christian are going to find someone else.
Speaker 6 (10:06):
We need to make it.
Speaker 5 (10:07):
We need to talk so that you won't get talk
to my other Columbian Mexican fellows. But I need to
know that I made you, and you wanna tell me
what the plants are you're looking for. I wanna tell him.
I'm gonna keep everybody happy and then all the doors open,
otherwise we're gonna lose this altogether. That's a bondle. Please
Fla Let's let's let's make this happen, bro.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
Please Flavi you let's make this happen bro more after
the break.
Speaker 6 (10:53):
My friends.
Speaker 5 (10:54):
Okay, the company representing tells me they are located, So
some money for the we're doing that transaction whenever we'll
get ready. So I just wanted to let you know that.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
It's July twenty fourteen. Wan is saying that its Fark
friends have moved millions of dollars into European bank accounts.
The money has been earmarked for purchasing the weapons that
Flavio will help deliver. But at this point there's a
lot of skepticism and distrust among everyone involved. Wan's already
(11:29):
been stood up in Rome, and since then, Flavio has
asked Wuan to come to Romania so that they can
meet for the first time and so that Juan can
meet Christian Mantilla, but Wan hasn't yet committed to that.
Speaker 5 (11:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
In August twenty fourteen, Wan calls Andy and Los Angeles,
and Andy, in no uncertain terms, tells him the Romanians
aren't happy.
Speaker 6 (12:01):
Man.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
I got the whole fucking government on my ass all
honest now, So thell call flap.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
I got a hold fucking Romanian government on my ass
right now because.
Speaker 6 (12:11):
They think I'm bullshitting.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
What Andy is saying here is that with Juan refusing
to go to Romania, the Romanian government has been coming
down on him. It's not really that the Romanian government
is coming down on him. He's referring to Christian, who
is a government minister in Romania.
Speaker 4 (12:30):
Is really bad.
Speaker 5 (12:30):
Call him back, you guys.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
Wan's referring to Rome when he got stood up. No, no,
he called you to go down there. Those guys wanted
to meet donnal Day.
Speaker 5 (12:41):
I cannot, you know, push him around because there's no
point in fucking pushing him around.
Speaker 6 (12:45):
He's got to be done, you know, at a certain point,
certain time. I mean the guys are thinking with bullshitting.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
I mean, she's dell up on my ass.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
The next day, Juan calls Flavio.
Speaker 6 (12:56):
Hello, Hello, Flavio, how are you saying? Hey? And' they
asked me to give you a call. I find a siller,
you find a fellow? Is that what you said?
Speaker 2 (13:13):
Yeah?
Speaker 6 (13:13):
I find it?
Speaker 3 (13:15):
And which a.
Speaker 6 (13:17):
Seller? I'm sorry, I find the silver and which you
are the thought can come to Menium.
Speaker 5 (13:26):
Be aware that already twice I have come to Europe
and I've been unable to accomplish anything. So if I
if I do come, you need to guarantee me because
otherwise it's gonna be three times.
Speaker 6 (13:39):
I don't looking good a spending money. I don't want
any problems with no one. If I go there, Make
sure that you know these people. Am I gonna be safe? Please? Yeah? Yeah, yeah,
no problem? All right?
Speaker 5 (13:51):
When I come, you must have prices for for for
the items that I requested that my customers is requested, okay, and.
Speaker 6 (14:00):
Is they do have it on hand? I need to
know how long will tell them to deliver.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
One, having been frustrated by Flavio over and over again,
is reading him the Riot Act. Here, this is your
last chance. If we're going to meet in person, you
better have prices for weapons and a clear timeline for delivery.
Don't worry, Flavio tells Juan he's got everything under control.
(14:29):
So one, who's secretly under pressure from his boss is
at the Dea to make something of this languishing investigation,
flies to Romania. He's accompanied by another Dea infemant. On
September twenty third, twenty fourteen. One calls Flavio from Bucharest.
Speaker 5 (14:50):
Here I am and in your town, and here I
am to Doc. Okay, I'm not the Mario hotel.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
They decide to meet at the Marriotte for dinner that evening.
One starts as recording device.
Speaker 6 (15:10):
The local time in.
Speaker 5 (15:12):
Yes, eight thirty five pm. We are right now in
the book arrest.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
The other informant whispers to Wan.
Speaker 5 (15:27):
The equipment when we run under we get there.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
The equipment is going to be on until we get there,
one says. The other informant stays behind in the hotel room. Well,
Wan heads to the restaurant. One puts the recorder in
a pocket and the tape gets noisy. This walk one
is making from his room to the hotel restaurant is
(15:53):
two years in the making. All those phone calls have
led to this. Flavio and Wan finally meet at the
Marriott in Romania.
Speaker 5 (16:08):
It took a long time to Meetium. How are you great?
Speaker 6 (16:11):
Good?
Speaker 5 (16:11):
Thank you for coming.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
How you been Welcome to Romania, Flavio tell us. Juan
Flavio gives Wan a gift, a souvenir with the Romanian
flag on it, and Jan hens Flavio a bag of coffee.
Speaker 5 (16:25):
Colombia and Koffey. Yeah, yeah, yeah, thank you my wife.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
Flavio laughs, but it's clear that as someone who grew
up in communist Romania, he doesn't really get one's joke.
Juan Valdez was a fictional Colombian coffee being grower in
American TV commercials from the seventies and eighties. Anyway, Flavio
and Wan sit down at a table in the restaurant
and get down to this military grade weapons business.
Speaker 5 (16:55):
Do you have your own plan? I have my own agendas.
I went it too much so it works. If we
don't match it, it wouldn't want to work.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
Flavio tells One that he can get the weapons. One
suggests that they meet tomorrow in a private conference room.
Flavio should bring Christian and One will bring a spark colleague.
Speaker 5 (17:16):
But I get a room. Okay, this is important. The
fellow that is comedy. His solo purpose of being here
is to talk about the weapons because he knows about webbons.
The people knows what they're talking about.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
This fark guy. One says he's not like him. He
doesn't make jokes. He's a no nonsense guy. He's an
operative from the jungle.
Speaker 5 (17:42):
Okay, he's from the jungle. Okay, ex military guy. The
other people never went to school. All they have is
they sell freaking cocaine. They make money. They think that
the kings and they want to tell you what to
do so that you know, So please bear with me.
Hell me out if we come to that point. So
(18:02):
you know, I need to explain to you everything when
we alone, because I want this to have I want this.
Speaker 6 (18:07):
To go through.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
Wan also makes clear that he and his colleague need
weapons to protect Fark's cocaine interests and to attack American
helicopters in Colombia, but.
Speaker 5 (18:18):
They want to buy weapons because they want to fight
to protect the drug industry, and I want to bring
down the American helicopters because other enemies. You understand that.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
Wan is being explicit about this for a very specific reason.
It's critical to the government's narco terrorism case. Flavio needs
to know that these weapons he's helping want obtain, they're
going to farc rebels who fund their violence through drug sales.
Ding Finally, One appears to be happy with Flavio. He
(18:51):
appears to believe that this deal can happen, and he
again explains that as fark guys are tough but paranoid.
Speaker 5 (19:00):
And I'm happy now that I came here. Me I
can't come I'm just a simple man. This other guys,
I'm the one to carry a big bag behind them,
you know what I mean. I'm convince them to come
about the situations people can oh, this guy is gonna
rob you. This guy because I understand them, but I'm
(19:22):
saying what they're telling them.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
To celebrate. Flavio and Wan order Yeager meisters to toast.
One has never had.
Speaker 5 (19:30):
One Jagger Master jack Master Jaggers, Zacher, Jacker, Muster Jagger,
Myster Jaggers, jagger meister.
Speaker 4 (19:40):
Yes, yes, it's it's.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
A greedy After drinks, Flavia and One agree to meet
at the hotel the next day, and they'll have two
more people with them, Flavia's contact, Christian Vntilla, and One's
colleague from the jungle. That's up to the break again,
(20:18):
just like the day before when One started his recorder.
One can't remember where he is today.
Speaker 5 (20:24):
Sday's September twenty fourth, twenty fourteen. Local time in Bulgaria
is eight twenty seven pm luchs Bukarest, Bulgaria.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
Bucharest, the other dea infemant says. One says, Bucharest, Bulgaria.
He's in Romania.
Speaker 5 (20:43):
We are about to go to a mida with Flavio
and his friends are the main love at the hotel.
Mario bring up to the conference to have a meeting
with them, Bomaria. That's okay.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
Juan and his Dea informat friend head downstairs to the
hotel lobby. They're waiting for Flavio and Christian.
Speaker 3 (21:16):
He called me in the afternoon of September twenty fourth.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
This is Christian Vintilla. Remember, Christian is being voiced by
an actor. He's saying that Flavio called him.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
And he told me that the Colombians came to Bucharest
unexpected and they want to meet him, and they want
to meet him right away, and because he wouldn't know
much about this field, he asked me to participate in
the meeting with him. And he explained to me that
they have a lot of money and he wanted to
impress them because he's willing to do business in the
(21:51):
future with them. And he told me to try to
do my best presentation so I can we can catch
them as clients.
Speaker 4 (22:02):
I bring Christian because I didn't feel comfortable.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
That I'm and this is Flavio, and I said, I have.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
To be prepared, and I took Christian as an advisor
to talk to see what's going on.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
So Flavio and Christian head to the Marriott in Bucharest.
Christian brings with him some catalogs from Romanian arms manufacturers.
But before Flavio and Christian Meetjan and his colleague in
the lobby, they dip into the hotel's restaurant. Flavio tells
Christian to hand him his phone.
Speaker 3 (22:33):
Jorgescu took my phone and his own and gave it
to the waitress telling her to put it in a
separate room.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
Why the hell does Flavio do that? The only plausible
reason that Flavio would ditch their phones is to prevent
a government spy agency from listening to their Armsteel meeting.
A little over a year earlier, in June twenty thirteen,
whistleblower Edward Snowden leaked thousands of classified documents about the
extent of global surveillance conducted by the NSA, the National
(23:05):
Security Agency. So these ideas about the government listening in
via your phone are very much in the air at
the time as this meeting is happening. But who is
Flavio afraid will hear the CIA, which apparently he's working for,
or the Romedian government, which Christian works for, or both. Besides,
(23:29):
if Flavia suspects Wan might be working for the DEA,
why would he care about a spy agency listening in
on their phones when Wan is likely recording the conversation anyway,
And yeah, of course Wan's recording this meeting.
Speaker 5 (23:47):
Excuse, how are you bye?
Speaker 6 (23:51):
Thank you?
Speaker 1 (23:52):
One is speaking to Christian for the first time. That's
Christian's real voice. They're all inside a conference room at
the hotel.
Speaker 5 (24:00):
This speaks Spanish, No, no English, not very good.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
Spanish English, Spanish, but no English, one says of his colleague,
whose name is Diego. Diego doesn't speak English, or at
least he's pretending not to speak English. I just want
to point out how absurd this meeting at the Bucharest
(24:26):
Marriott is one or Alex Diaz, the DEA informant, is
with another DEA guy who's pretending to be a Colombian
farc rebel, the so called Diego. This Diego guy isn't
subtle about a supposed revolutionary work. He's giving off some
solid cheguo var vibes. Meanwhile, Flavio is in his mind
(24:49):
a CIA asset, so he's performing his own role. The
only one without a hidden agenda in all this is Christian.
Speaker 3 (25:00):
I was supposed to explain to them the weapons and
how they work.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
It's all theater, with each side playing a part for
the other. Anyway, here's Diego, with one translating.
Speaker 6 (25:15):
And.
Speaker 5 (25:16):
The first we want to thank you coming here.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
From here, Diego gets right down the business.
Speaker 5 (25:28):
Are you familiar with the far Yeah? The the argument
of the people stanchando. We are a country finding this
(25:48):
course for six years. Mirida is midbis.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
His life is my life, is my country, Diego tells
Flavia and Christian as if borrowing from a list of
cliches for revolutionetionaries. Diego then begins to explain the Flavi
and Christian why his organization needs these weapons and.
Speaker 5 (26:09):
Problem and this one will have a big problem.
Speaker 3 (26:11):
Yes, americanoicters, black hat attack helicos.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
Diego says, US government attack helicopters now being used in
Colombia have tipped the balance of the conflict. The FARC
only has assault rifles, making them largely defenseless against the
choppers balance.
Speaker 5 (26:40):
Because of that, the government has given it was jo
is armamento and ti a.
Speaker 3 (26:49):
Los helicopters North Americanos.
Speaker 5 (26:53):
All he is is weapons to fight the error fight
again the airplace of the Americans.
Speaker 3 (27:02):
Los los Americanos.
Speaker 5 (27:05):
Americans laugh of us, look criminal, you have to fight
the air fight we can use He says that if
we fight and we'll destroyed two or three of the
helicopters and we kill two or three people, I want
to think twice before they keep on doing this, can spider,
(27:27):
what do you have that might help? Was defense?
Speaker 1 (27:31):
Christian pulls out a weapons catalog. These are the type
of weapons they can obtain. Diego flips through the pages
and then taps his finger down repeatedly on one item.
Speaker 5 (27:43):
This is what he's talking about.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
Diego is interested in something called a ZU twenty three,
an anti aircraft cannon that mounts to a small two
wheel trailer. The canon, designed by the Soviet Union in
the nineteen fifties, is so effective and adaptable that it's
still in use around the world today seventy years later.
It's perfective hell, but Diego says, they're not picky. It
(28:08):
doesn't have to be the ZU twenty three. They just
need a weapon system that can take down American helicopters.
Speaker 5 (28:17):
The idea is that whatever you give was, then we
can show this was down to take it out of.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
But any arm steel for an anti aircraft system has
a big obstacle, the ends user certificate to buy and
ship the weapons. Christian tells one in Diego that they
need that document.
Speaker 5 (28:38):
If you want to get it, then you past probably
way said ask him, what do you think about not rush,
take your time on and once that launch of time
we're taking together.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
Flavio explains that he and Christian needs some time to
obtain the document and once they have it, everyone should
meet again in person to finalize the weapons order.
Speaker 4 (29:10):
Wow, nothing, it's not the The problem is not the mention.
The problem is the induser. So as soon as you
find it.
Speaker 5 (29:19):
Next day, okay, okay.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
The four men then get up from the table, which
I asked us. It's the deal is finally coming together
for everyone, or so it seems. One is gathering evidence
(29:45):
for the DEA, and Flavio believes he's gathering information for
the c i A, including information about Christian Vintilla and
Christian's network of arm suppliers.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
Myself, I always have the feeling just to put every
on the table. In what you do as a government,
that one is not my business because I know behind
the curtains it's a different stories and now what you
see on TV or what you hear in the radio.
By myself, I did the JEB. I did my part.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
And Flavio has one more contact. He's hoping to deliver
a guy who can help them get that ends user certificate.
He's someone well known in Europe, someone with connections, someone
accustomed to navigating the halls of power. He's a politician,
a flamboyant former member of the Italian Parliament Karamichi jail Redici.
(30:46):
His name is Massimo Romagnoli. That's in the next episode.
This is up in arms, season two of Alphabet Boys.
(31:07):
Alphabet Boys is a production of Western Sound and iHeart Podcasts.
The show is reported, written and hosted by me, Trevor Aaronson.
For more information about this series or to drop us
a tip, head to our website Alphabet Boys dot xyz.
You can contact me on Twitter or Instagram at Trevor Aaronson.
The show's instagram is alphabet Boys dot pod. If you're
(31:29):
enjoying Alphabet Boys, tell your friends about the show. Personal
recommendations are the best recommendations. And if you want to
see an illegal armsteel from the inside again, it's Alphabet
Boys dot xyz. You'll find undercover recordings and documents related
to Flavio's case. Finally, you can help us ride the
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for listening.
Soundcheck one, two three.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Okay, what's your name?
Speaker 3 (00:08):
Alex Delesco.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
My colleague Nicole McNulty is getting set up with Alex,
who's about to read from a script we've put together.
And what do you do for a living?
Speaker 3 (00:18):
I'm a professional actor here in London. I am originally
from Romania.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Can you read that top line?
Speaker 3 (00:25):
We talked in his car in front of the building.
He explained to wait, I've flubbed that. Let me try again.
We talked in his car in front of the building.
He explained to me who he is. He showed me
a list of weapons and ammunition on his phone. Then
he sent me that list to my phone.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
Alex is reading lines of court testimony given by a
guy named Christian Vntilla. So in this episode and future ones,
Alex will be the voice of Christian. Everything you'll hear
comes verbatim from Christians testimony in court. The words are
(01:08):
all Christians. After the armsteel goes sideways and Christian turns
against Flavio.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
Okay, okay, I'm ready to start.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Christian wanted nothing to do with me or this show.
Here's what he told me in an email.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
I don't care about what flav you said or did?
They are a lot of lights and fakes.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
I'm Trevor Aronson from Western Sound to My Heart podcast.
This is Alphabet Boys, Episode seven. Let's make this happen. Bro.
(02:11):
Before we get going with this episode, I want to
give you a quick recap because the story of Flavio,
Juan and the supposed arms deal can get a little confusing.
Back in twenty twelve, Juan asks Flavio's friend Andy if
he knows a guy who can help put together an
arms deal for the farc Andy says he has someone
(02:31):
who can make stuff happen. So Andy calls Flavio. Andy
asks him if he can put together an arms deal
for these Colombians. Flavio says yeah, maybe. Immediately after hanging
up with Andy, Flavio calls the CIA. Two years past
and in twenty fourteen, Flavio stands up Juan in Rome,
(02:55):
but he says he can still make a deal Happenavio
puts one in touch with a guy named Gentaudis, the
arms dealer who smells a rat. What I haven't told
you is how gin Taudis got on Flavio's radar, and
that connection was through this guy, Christian Ventilla.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
I was General Secretary of the State Reserves and then
General Director with the Ministry of Internal Affairs.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
By the time Flavio meets him. Christian Ventilla is a
divorced father of two and a high ranking government minister
in Romania. He heads an agency that coordinates between the
Romanian government and the NATO Alliance based in Brussels.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
It's part of my job. I was registered as a
weapon control for NATO in Brussels, and for this reason
I was trained in different missions.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
Christian grew up in Baco, a city of about two
hundred thousand people northeast of Bucharest, the capital. After obtaining
a doctorate in project management, Christian became a government official
thanks to his association with a Romanian politician surrounded by
accusations of corruption. Anyway, now I'm going to put Christian
(04:10):
into this whole timeline. After Flavio decides to get involved
in the arms deal, he starts hunting around for people
who could connect him with arms dealers, and that's when
a mutual contact connected Flavio with Christian.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
He introduced Flavi Georgesco as a Romanian American businessman who
had an order for weapons and ammunition.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
This is the first time Flavio and Christian meet. Flavio
drives a Christian's apartment building in Bucharest. Christian comes out front.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
We talked in his car in front of the building.
He explained to me who he is. He showed me
a list of weapons and ammunition on his phone, then
he sent me that least to my phone. He told
me that he's very interested, that it is a serious order,
and to reassure me, he called on the phone and
(05:03):
the Georgie school and put him on the speaker because
he speaks Romanian.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
Also according to Christian, and this conversation in Flavio's car
isn't recorded. Andy, speaking in Romanian, tells Christian and Flavio
about one.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
The order is coming from some old customers of his
and it is a very serious order and he's going
to get implicated by managing the financial side of disorder.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
In the car, Christian tells Andy that based on the
weapons on One's lists, including AK forty sevens and anti
aircraft weapons, he believes he can line up a manufacturer
to fill the order.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
I suggested that they should get in touch directly Gin
Totus with the Colombians he knew the products, and he
knew what he can offer and what not.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
As you may remember, flow connects one with gin Taudis.
Guintaudis pretty quickly and correctly suspects that one is a
government agent. Gintaudus sends an angry email with a link
to a news article but a successful deea sting in
Prague involving informants who claim to be buying weapons for
(06:18):
the farc. That email gets to Christian, who confronts Flavia.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
I talked to Georgiesco about this thing, telling him about
the Czech article and explaining to him that Quintotus is
suspecting that it's the same kind of sting.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
He said, let me tell you something, and he put
up a paper. He shows thing operation from Czech Republic
from Prague with same one and everybody said, it's impossible.
Speaker 4 (06:44):
It's the same temple's the same thing.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
For Christian, this must have been an enormous red flag,
but Flavio, in his Flavio way, assures Christian that there's
no reason for concern.
Speaker 4 (06:57):
Isaimeh, just trust me, this is just a coincidence.
Speaker 3 (07:02):
He knows the Colombians and he previously did business with them,
and I shouldn't worry about it.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
Flavio needs to keep Christian in the business deal to
supposedly gather information for the CIA. But and I have
to admit this is bizarre. Given what happens later. Flavio
also suspects that one could be with the DEA.
Speaker 4 (07:27):
So what, I didn't care about what's going on over
here in this side.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
I was caidring what I find in this site using
Juan right now, the goofy clown.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
As far as Flavio is concerned. So what that just
means he and Juan are both friends of America.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
And I said, you know what, if we don't die,
but at least today and we're gonna have something.
Speaker 4 (07:47):
I didn't care anymore. I was going too far.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
I was so excited and so proud, and still I
have so many things and I can do so much.
Speaker 4 (07:58):
That means I'm gonna keep going.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
Yeah, here we arrive at yet another problem in Flavio's story.
Flavio received these warnings that one could be a US
government agent. The DEA had been so aggressive in its
transnational narco terrorism stings that the targets of other stings
(08:22):
were figuring out the DEA's game from news reports. Yet
Flavio doesn't back out of the deal, and he doesn't
contact the CIA to report the DEA's possible involvement. He
just continues, knowing that it's possible, maybe even likely, that
(08:43):
he and Wan are playing for the same team. One
just doesn't know it yet. So if Flavio can build
a case, even with Wan mixed up in it, no
big deal. The DEA and CIA would sort everything out
in the end, So Flavio keeps his suspicions to himself.
(09:05):
He tells Christian, don't worry about it. He knows one,
he's done business with one, even though that isn't true.
Flavio's never even met Wan at this point.
Speaker 5 (09:18):
How are you good?
Speaker 6 (09:21):
Yeah, I mean german good.
Speaker 5 (09:24):
I was. I was just at the beach. I just
get back anyway.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
And at the same time, Flavio assures One that they
don't need this gen toutist guy anyway. I still I.
Speaker 5 (09:36):
Still coming on on the twenty second, and I think
we all need to meet and see if we can
come up with a plan either what this gentleman, or
maybe you can't help me to solve you know that?
Do you talk to him? I am wanted to look
for different, different solution.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
By looking for a different solution, Flavio means he and
Christian are going to find someone else.
Speaker 6 (10:06):
We need to make it.
Speaker 5 (10:07):
We need to talk so that you won't get talk
to my other Columbian Mexican fellows. But I need to
know that I made you, and you wanna tell me
what the plants are you're looking for. I wanna tell him.
I'm gonna keep everybody happy and then all the doors open,
otherwise we're gonna lose this altogether. That's a bondle. Please
Fla Let's let's let's make this happen, bro.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
Please Flavi you let's make this happen bro more after
the break.
Speaker 6 (10:53):
My friends.
Speaker 5 (10:54):
Okay, the company representing tells me they are located, So
some money for the we're doing that transaction whenever we'll
get ready. So I just wanted to let you know that.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
It's July twenty fourteen. Wan is saying that its Fark
friends have moved millions of dollars into European bank accounts.
The money has been earmarked for purchasing the weapons that
Flavio will help deliver. But at this point there's a
lot of skepticism and distrust among everyone involved. Wan's already
(11:29):
been stood up in Rome, and since then, Flavio has
asked Wuan to come to Romania so that they can
meet for the first time and so that Juan can
meet Christian Mantilla, but Wan hasn't yet committed to that.
Speaker 5 (11:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
In August twenty fourteen, Wan calls Andy and Los Angeles,
and Andy, in no uncertain terms, tells him the Romanians
aren't happy.
Speaker 6 (12:01):
Man.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
I got the whole fucking government on my ass all
honest now, So thell call flap.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
I got a hold fucking Romanian government on my ass
right now because.
Speaker 6 (12:11):
They think I'm bullshitting.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
What Andy is saying here is that with Juan refusing
to go to Romania, the Romanian government has been coming
down on him. It's not really that the Romanian government
is coming down on him. He's referring to Christian, who
is a government minister in Romania.
Speaker 4 (12:30):
Is really bad.
Speaker 5 (12:30):
Call him back, you guys.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
Wan's referring to Rome when he got stood up. No, no,
he called you to go down there. Those guys wanted
to meet donnal Day.
Speaker 5 (12:41):
I cannot, you know, push him around because there's no
point in fucking pushing him around.
Speaker 6 (12:45):
He's got to be done, you know, at a certain point,
certain time. I mean the guys are thinking with bullshitting.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
I mean, she's dell up on my ass.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
The next day, Juan calls Flavio.
Speaker 6 (12:56):
Hello, Hello, Flavio, how are you saying? Hey? And' they
asked me to give you a call. I find a siller,
you find a fellow? Is that what you said?
Speaker 2 (13:13):
Yeah?
Speaker 6 (13:13):
I find it?
Speaker 3 (13:15):
And which a.
Speaker 6 (13:17):
Seller? I'm sorry, I find the silver and which you
are the thought can come to Menium.
Speaker 5 (13:26):
Be aware that already twice I have come to Europe
and I've been unable to accomplish anything. So if I
if I do come, you need to guarantee me because
otherwise it's gonna be three times.
Speaker 6 (13:39):
I don't looking good a spending money. I don't want
any problems with no one. If I go there, Make
sure that you know these people. Am I gonna be safe? Please? Yeah? Yeah, yeah,
no problem? All right?
Speaker 5 (13:51):
When I come, you must have prices for for for
the items that I requested that my customers is requested, okay, and.
Speaker 6 (14:00):
Is they do have it on hand? I need to
know how long will tell them to deliver.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
One, having been frustrated by Flavio over and over again,
is reading him the Riot Act. Here, this is your
last chance. If we're going to meet in person, you
better have prices for weapons and a clear timeline for delivery.
Don't worry, Flavio tells Juan he's got everything under control.
(14:29):
So one, who's secretly under pressure from his boss is
at the Dea to make something of this languishing investigation,
flies to Romania. He's accompanied by another Dea infemant. On
September twenty third, twenty fourteen. One calls Flavio from Bucharest.
Speaker 5 (14:50):
Here I am and in your town, and here I
am to Doc. Okay, I'm not the Mario hotel.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
They decide to meet at the Marriotte for dinner that evening.
One starts as recording device.
Speaker 6 (15:10):
The local time in.
Speaker 5 (15:12):
Yes, eight thirty five pm. We are right now in
the book arrest.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
The other informant whispers to Wan.
Speaker 5 (15:27):
The equipment when we run under we get there.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
The equipment is going to be on until we get there,
one says. The other informant stays behind in the hotel room. Well,
Wan heads to the restaurant. One puts the recorder in
a pocket and the tape gets noisy. This walk one
is making from his room to the hotel restaurant is
(15:53):
two years in the making. All those phone calls have
led to this. Flavio and Wan finally meet at the
Marriott in Romania.
Speaker 5 (16:08):
It took a long time to Meetium. How are you great?
Speaker 6 (16:11):
Good?
Speaker 5 (16:11):
Thank you for coming.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
How you been Welcome to Romania, Flavio tell us. Juan
Flavio gives Wan a gift, a souvenir with the Romanian
flag on it, and Jan hens Flavio a bag of coffee.
Speaker 5 (16:25):
Colombia and Koffey. Yeah, yeah, yeah, thank you my wife.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
Flavio laughs, but it's clear that as someone who grew
up in communist Romania, he doesn't really get one's joke.
Juan Valdez was a fictional Colombian coffee being grower in
American TV commercials from the seventies and eighties. Anyway, Flavio
and Wan sit down at a table in the restaurant
and get down to this military grade weapons business.
Speaker 5 (16:55):
Do you have your own plan? I have my own agendas.
I went it too much so it works. If we
don't match it, it wouldn't want to work.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
Flavio tells One that he can get the weapons. One
suggests that they meet tomorrow in a private conference room.
Flavio should bring Christian and One will bring a spark colleague.
Speaker 5 (17:16):
But I get a room. Okay, this is important. The
fellow that is comedy. His solo purpose of being here
is to talk about the weapons because he knows about webbons.
The people knows what they're talking about.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
This fark guy. One says he's not like him. He
doesn't make jokes. He's a no nonsense guy. He's an
operative from the jungle.
Speaker 5 (17:42):
Okay, he's from the jungle. Okay, ex military guy. The
other people never went to school. All they have is
they sell freaking cocaine. They make money. They think that
the kings and they want to tell you what to
do so that you know, So please bear with me.
Hell me out if we come to that point. So
(18:02):
you know, I need to explain to you everything when
we alone, because I want this to have I want this.
Speaker 6 (18:07):
To go through.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
Wan also makes clear that he and his colleague need
weapons to protect Fark's cocaine interests and to attack American
helicopters in Colombia, but.
Speaker 5 (18:18):
They want to buy weapons because they want to fight
to protect the drug industry, and I want to bring
down the American helicopters because other enemies. You understand that.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
Wan is being explicit about this for a very specific reason.
It's critical to the government's narco terrorism case. Flavio needs
to know that these weapons he's helping want obtain, they're
going to farc rebels who fund their violence through drug sales.
Ding Finally, One appears to be happy with Flavio. He
(18:51):
appears to believe that this deal can happen, and he
again explains that as fark guys are tough but paranoid.
Speaker 5 (19:00):
And I'm happy now that I came here. Me I
can't come I'm just a simple man. This other guys,
I'm the one to carry a big bag behind them,
you know what I mean. I'm convince them to come
about the situations people can oh, this guy is gonna
rob you. This guy because I understand them, but I'm
(19:22):
saying what they're telling them.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
To celebrate. Flavio and Wan order Yeager meisters to toast.
One has never had.
Speaker 5 (19:30):
One Jagger Master jack Master Jaggers, Zacher, Jacker, Muster Jagger,
Myster Jaggers, jagger meister.
Speaker 4 (19:40):
Yes, yes, it's it's.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
A greedy After drinks, Flavia and One agree to meet
at the hotel the next day, and they'll have two
more people with them, Flavia's contact, Christian Vntilla, and One's
colleague from the jungle. That's up to the break again,
(20:18):
just like the day before when One started his recorder.
One can't remember where he is today.
Speaker 5 (20:24):
Sday's September twenty fourth, twenty fourteen. Local time in Bulgaria
is eight twenty seven pm luchs Bukarest, Bulgaria.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
Bucharest, the other dea infemant says. One says, Bucharest, Bulgaria.
He's in Romania.
Speaker 5 (20:43):
We are about to go to a mida with Flavio
and his friends are the main love at the hotel.
Mario bring up to the conference to have a meeting
with them, Bomaria. That's okay.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
Juan and his Dea informat friend head downstairs to the
hotel lobby. They're waiting for Flavio and Christian.
Speaker 3 (21:16):
He called me in the afternoon of September twenty fourth.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
This is Christian Vintilla. Remember, Christian is being voiced by
an actor. He's saying that Flavio called him.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
And he told me that the Colombians came to Bucharest
unexpected and they want to meet him, and they want
to meet him right away, and because he wouldn't know
much about this field, he asked me to participate in
the meeting with him. And he explained to me that
they have a lot of money and he wanted to
impress them because he's willing to do business in the
(21:51):
future with them. And he told me to try to
do my best presentation so I can we can catch
them as clients.
Speaker 4 (22:02):
I bring Christian because I didn't feel comfortable.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
That I'm and this is Flavio, and I said, I have.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
To be prepared, and I took Christian as an advisor
to talk to see what's going on.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
So Flavio and Christian head to the Marriott in Bucharest.
Christian brings with him some catalogs from Romanian arms manufacturers.
But before Flavio and Christian Meetjan and his colleague in
the lobby, they dip into the hotel's restaurant. Flavio tells
Christian to hand him his phone.
Speaker 3 (22:33):
Jorgescu took my phone and his own and gave it
to the waitress telling her to put it in a
separate room.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
Why the hell does Flavio do that? The only plausible
reason that Flavio would ditch their phones is to prevent
a government spy agency from listening to their Armsteel meeting.
A little over a year earlier, in June twenty thirteen,
whistleblower Edward Snowden leaked thousands of classified documents about the
extent of global surveillance conducted by the NSA, the National
(23:05):
Security Agency. So these ideas about the government listening in
via your phone are very much in the air at
the time as this meeting is happening. But who is
Flavio afraid will hear the CIA, which apparently he's working for,
or the Romedian government, which Christian works for, or both. Besides,
(23:29):
if Flavia suspects Wan might be working for the DEA,
why would he care about a spy agency listening in
on their phones when Wan is likely recording the conversation anyway,
And yeah, of course Wan's recording this meeting.
Speaker 5 (23:47):
Excuse, how are you bye?
Speaker 6 (23:51):
Thank you?
Speaker 1 (23:52):
One is speaking to Christian for the first time. That's
Christian's real voice. They're all inside a conference room at
the hotel.
Speaker 5 (24:00):
This speaks Spanish, No, no English, not very good.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
Spanish English, Spanish, but no English, one says of his colleague,
whose name is Diego. Diego doesn't speak English, or at
least he's pretending not to speak English. I just want
to point out how absurd this meeting at the Bucharest
(24:26):
Marriott is one or Alex Diaz, the DEA informant, is
with another DEA guy who's pretending to be a Colombian
farc rebel, the so called Diego. This Diego guy isn't
subtle about a supposed revolutionary work. He's giving off some
solid cheguo var vibes. Meanwhile, Flavio is in his mind
(24:49):
a CIA asset, so he's performing his own role. The
only one without a hidden agenda in all this is Christian.
Speaker 3 (25:00):
I was supposed to explain to them the weapons and
how they work.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
It's all theater, with each side playing a part for
the other. Anyway, here's Diego, with one translating.
Speaker 6 (25:15):
And.
Speaker 5 (25:16):
The first we want to thank you coming here.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
From here, Diego gets right down the business.
Speaker 5 (25:28):
Are you familiar with the far Yeah? The the argument
of the people stanchando. We are a country finding this
(25:48):
course for six years. Mirida is midbis.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
His life is my life, is my country, Diego tells
Flavia and Christian as if borrowing from a list of
cliches for revolutionetionaries. Diego then begins to explain the Flavi
and Christian why his organization needs these weapons and.
Speaker 5 (26:09):
Problem and this one will have a big problem.
Speaker 3 (26:11):
Yes, americanoicters, black hat attack helicos.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
Diego says, US government attack helicopters now being used in
Colombia have tipped the balance of the conflict. The FARC
only has assault rifles, making them largely defenseless against the
choppers balance.
Speaker 5 (26:40):
Because of that, the government has given it was jo
is armamento and ti a.
Speaker 3 (26:49):
Los helicopters North Americanos.
Speaker 5 (26:53):
All he is is weapons to fight the error fight
again the airplace of the Americans.
Speaker 3 (27:02):
Los los Americanos.
Speaker 5 (27:05):
Americans laugh of us, look criminal, you have to fight
the air fight we can use He says that if
we fight and we'll destroyed two or three of the
helicopters and we kill two or three people, I want
to think twice before they keep on doing this, can spider,
(27:27):
what do you have that might help? Was defense?
Speaker 1 (27:31):
Christian pulls out a weapons catalog. These are the type
of weapons they can obtain. Diego flips through the pages
and then taps his finger down repeatedly on one item.
Speaker 5 (27:43):
This is what he's talking about.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
Diego is interested in something called a ZU twenty three,
an anti aircraft cannon that mounts to a small two
wheel trailer. The canon, designed by the Soviet Union in
the nineteen fifties, is so effective and adaptable that it's
still in use around the world today seventy years later.
It's perfective hell, but Diego says, they're not picky. It
(28:08):
doesn't have to be the ZU twenty three. They just
need a weapon system that can take down American helicopters.
Speaker 5 (28:17):
The idea is that whatever you give was, then we
can show this was down to take it out of.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
But any arm steel for an anti aircraft system has
a big obstacle, the ends user certificate to buy and
ship the weapons. Christian tells one in Diego that they
need that document.
Speaker 5 (28:38):
If you want to get it, then you past probably
way said ask him, what do you think about not rush,
take your time on and once that launch of time
we're taking together.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
Flavio explains that he and Christian needs some time to
obtain the document and once they have it, everyone should
meet again in person to finalize the weapons order.
Speaker 4 (29:10):
Wow, nothing, it's not the The problem is not the mention.
The problem is the induser. So as soon as you
find it.
Speaker 5 (29:19):
Next day, okay, okay.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
The four men then get up from the table, which
I asked us. It's the deal is finally coming together
for everyone, or so it seems. One is gathering evidence
(29:45):
for the DEA, and Flavio believes he's gathering information for
the c i A, including information about Christian Vintilla and
Christian's network of arm suppliers.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
Myself, I always have the feeling just to put every
on the table. In what you do as a government,
that one is not my business because I know behind
the curtains it's a different stories and now what you
see on TV or what you hear in the radio.
By myself, I did the JEB. I did my part.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
And Flavio has one more contact. He's hoping to deliver
a guy who can help them get that ends user certificate.
He's someone well known in Europe, someone with connections, someone
accustomed to navigating the halls of power. He's a politician,
a flamboyant former member of the Italian Parliament Karamichi jail Redici.
(30:46):
His name is Massimo Romagnoli. That's in the next episode.
This is up in arms, season two of Alphabet Boys.
(31:07):
Alphabet Boys is a production of Western Sound and iHeart Podcasts.
The show is reported, written and hosted by me, Trevor Aaronson.
For more information about this series or to drop us
a tip, head to our website Alphabet Boys dot xyz.
You can contact me on Twitter or Instagram at Trevor Aaronson.
The show's instagram is alphabet Boys dot pod. If you're
(31:29):
enjoying Alphabet Boys, tell your friends about the show. Personal
recommendations are the best recommendations. And if you want to
see an illegal armsteel from the inside again, it's Alphabet
Boys dot xyz. You'll find undercover recordings and documents related
to Flavio's case. Finally, you can help us ride the
algorithms by leaving a rating or review on your favorite
(31:51):
podcast app that helps other people find us. And thanks
for listening.
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I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
Ridiculous History
History is beautiful, brutal and, often, ridiculous. Join Ben Bowlin and Noel Brown as they dive into some of the weirdest stories from across the span of human civilization in Ridiculous History, a podcast by iHeartRadio.