9. I Ain't A Snitch

Mickey takes Zebb to a Bass Pro Shop to buy a gun. Everything seems to be going to plan. But then, Mickey is exposed as an informant by a group in Colorado Springs. With Zebb’s help, Mickey creates a bizarre video railing against the group. Zebb begins to question what’s going on with his friend. But is it too late? 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
So it's not exactly clear how they figured it out.
But on September second, twenty twenty, activists who identify as
Colorado Springs Antifa accuse Mickey of being an informant. Mickey's
exposed in a Twitter thread. The account for Colorado Springs

(00:20):
Antifa posts photos of Mickey and warrants everyone that he's
a suspected informant. It reads be careful around this dude.
Probably wise not to let him in your protest space.
To be clear, this Twitter thread doesn't offer any specific
evidence that Mickey is an informant. So I contact Colorado
Springs Antifa, and after jumping through a series of hoops

(00:43):
to confirm my identity, I end up on an encrypted
phone call with one of their members. I don't record
the conversation he asked me not to, and he won't
give me his name, real cloak and dagger stuff. He
tells me that while they don't have proof, they have
a lot of suspicions. He says they believe Mickey played
a part in the investigation of activists in Colorado Springs,

(01:04):
the investigation you heard about in the last episode. By
this time, Mickey is deeply embedded in the Denver Racial
Justice movement. He's at the front of protests, he's going
to meetings, he's making plans, and what people in Denver
don't know is the FBI is paying him thousands of
dollars cash every few weeks. So, as you can imagine,

(01:29):
like anyone whose livelihood is being threatened, Mickey's not going
to take this kind of online rumor lying down. So
just hours after the Twitter outing, Mickey records a video
Good Evening or good Morning. It's September third, two and twenty,

(01:49):
roughly about three o'clock in the morning. In the video,
Mickey is sitting at a table. There's the red flag
of the Kurdistan Workers Party behind him, and leaning against
the wall is an AAR fifteen style assault rifle. Mickey's
holding a cigar. On the table in front of him
is a ball peen hammer and a full bottle of

(02:10):
Jack Daniels. And Mickey doesn't mince words. This propaganda shit
you guys posted doesn't mean fuck all to me, but
understand this. I would be a polite and professional, but
I have a plan to kill everybody in the fucking
room of me to be. Mickey posts the video to
YouTube and it quickly circulates among Denver's racial justice protesters.

(02:34):
Mickey insists he's not an informant. If you're trying to
implicate that I'm a fucking snitch, check this out. Three things.
I ain't a punk, I am a bitch, and I
am a fucking snitch. You should ask who the real
fucking punk er bitches or who the real fucking snitches.

(02:54):
I'm Trevor Aaronson from Western Sound and I Heeart podcasts.
This is Alphabet Boys, episode nine. I in as Niche.

(03:29):
We'll get to this bizarre video with Mickey in a bit,
but for the moment, I want to take you back
again to the last week of August twenty twenty. A
lot happens this week. This is the same week that
Mickey's hyping up demonstrations have become full scale attacks on
police buildings. I can't hear you. This is also the

(03:53):
week Mickey takes zeb Hall in Bryce Shelby to lunch
at a famous Dave's Barbecue restaurant. Ze won't commit to
any attack or plan, but Bryce suggests they should pursue
a plot to assassinate Colorado Attorney General Bill Wiser. Generals
your target a few days later, Mickey introduces Bryce to
Red and undercover FBI agent Juice, and Red and Bryce

(04:19):
drive the Wiser's house. Red suggests they could hire a
hitman for five or six hundred dollars. You know, it's
going to call something to put it together. All I'm saying,
what are we looking at? Figure whys five Seclent books. Yeah.
Bryce knows that's not enough money for a hit like that,
And besides, he's all talk. He's not interested, not really,

(04:43):
So he ghosts Red and Mickey doesn't return any of
their calls or text messages. Okay, now the stuff I
haven't told you about. A couple of days after Mickey
puts Red onto Bryce, Mickey arranges to meet Zeb at
a sporting goods store that sells firearms, a Bass Pro
shop in Denver. He's asked Zeb to buy him a gun,

(05:04):
and Zeb, having seen Mickey with lots of guns, doesn't
think what Mickey's asking him to do is a big deal.
But yeah, it is a big deal. Okay. The date
today is Thursday, August twenty seventh, at approximately two forty
seven pm with Special Agent Scott Dulstrom and Special Agent

(05:27):
Byron Mitchell with HS meeting with Zebidias Hall. Mickey meets
with his FBI agent handler and gets a recording device.
He then drives about ten minutes to the bass Pro shop.
Sitting in the parking lot and smoking a cigar, Mickey
sees Zeb walking towards the store with a woman. I

(05:51):
think that's his girlfriend or chick. Mickey is communicating with
the FBI agents who are watching the live feed, so
it just a heads up zebra diass I think the
grosher scoreforn. Mickey then puts on his face mask, the
black one with the Punisher logo and the Kurdish flag

(06:11):
Peshmerga it reads on one side of the mask and
he goes into the bass Pro shop. Mickey walks past
a waterfall pouring into a giant fish tank. This bass
Pro shop has a gigantic aquarium full of freshwater fish.
Mickey is in the middle of the store casting around
for zeb. Just then a salesman comes up to him,

(06:36):
like the TATSI you got, Franklin, Yeah, did they tell
you about the Mickey just keeps walking. He's looking for Zeb.
My life really, you know. But after about five minutes
of searching, Mickey can't find his target. In the cavernous store.
He tries to call him, but Zeb doesn't answer his phone.

(06:59):
Mickey then talk to the FBI agents who are watching
the live feed. He's in the store somewhere, but I
don't know where. It's like literally playing hide and go
fuck myself. Mickey gets a call. His ringtone is a
motorcycle engine revving. It's Zeb. Hello, Hello, thank you. Yeah,

(07:21):
I'm holing up stairs right now. I'm not even upstairs, bro,
I'm like literally walk around the store like hide and
go fuck myself. I can't even find you. Okay, I'm going.
I'm actually by this. Just take I'm going upstairs in
the elevator right now. This is coming to elevator because
the fire arms upstairs. Okay, I'll be up there in
a second. All right, good bye. Mickey finally finds Zeb

(07:46):
and he's with a friend named Sarah. Mickey uses a
low voice so no one nearby can hear. So you
like a forty five, Yeah, chrome, a K forty seven
buying no one near pistols. Fine, that's all I mean.
But you know clean because I wasn't cash walking up

(08:07):
their show. Mickey tells Zeb the kind of gun he
wants and he makes clear that he can't beat anywhere
near Zeb when he's buying the firearm, because that's gonna
look weird, like, oh yeah, hey, here's here's the and
they're gonna be like, what the fuck you have saw?
All right? So, because you know, they ask me, and

(08:28):
then they're like, well and now all a sudden they
know that I'm a feloney, it's gonna fuck everything out.
What Mickey says, right then likely isn't an accident. He
reminds Zeb that he's a felon, and it's illegal for
a felon to have a gun. It's illegal to buy
a gun for a felon. What's happening here is Zeb

(08:49):
is acting as what's called a straw buyer. What Mickey
says is designed to help build a criminal case, to
demonstrate intent, to show that Zeb knows Mickey's a I'm
so okay, So we'll give you the cash, all right,
Mickey Henzeb fifteen hundred dollars. I'm gonna go wander off
sort of spaces. Everything seems to be going exactly the

(09:13):
plan more after the break, So Mickey's given fifteen hundred
dollars in cash to Zeb to buy him a gun,
and he's walked out of the Bass Pro shop. About
fifteen minutes later, Zeb and his friend Sarah walk outside

(09:37):
as well. They're standing by the front door. Zeb tells
Mickey that he needs to grab his car registration for
the background chap, and he tells Mickey that he selected
a gun. Yeah, but it's alive Crystal. Yeah. I think
he's like smith and smiths Smith. Listen. Yeah, you're too small.

(10:04):
Zeb's friend Sarah makes a nervous joke and says it's
too small for my hand. I mean your hands are
too small for the weapon. You're saying. Yeah, it was
about saying O small was bad. I'm gonna okay, yeah,
all right. After Zeb gets his car registration and he
and Sarah go back into the Bass Pro shop, Mickey
walks over to his hearse in the parking lot. The

(10:29):
weapons too small for her hands? Oh my god, yeah,
like fucking midget hands. Mickey then calls Scott Dahlstrom, his
FBI handler. Right, Hey, so what's going on here? Standing

(10:51):
here staring at the fucking tree? Okay, kids are things
going in and out? So we have we saw you
walk out with them. We could be here very well. Um,
why so he walked out the store? Why did you
walk out and go back in? He had to go
and get his registration to show through the residence. Oh yeah, okay,
so his girlfriend, uh uh, let's telling me that, uh,

(11:14):
the gun was too small for her hands. I like
your hands and too small for the Yeah, yeah, that's
why I've heard that. Yeah no, yeah, am I sounded
clear on it? Now? Um, we're wig it's a lag
but yeah, no, it's fine. Now, it's just the connection

(11:35):
of that. It's recording the connection. It's just that, Okay,
forgot it all right. About fifteen minutes pass and Zeb
finds Mickey in the parking lot, standing near his hearse
pretty goddamn fast. So what do they say? Goodground? Did
it look good? Yeah? So that's one STEP's background check

(11:58):
comes back tomorrow, the store will let him pick up
the gun, and then Zeb's planning to give that gun
to Mickey. He said that he was a felon, that
he couldn't have a gun. But if you have all
these guns in your car and you're you're known to
walk around with them, you know, how could you have?
And then you know, I'm like, okay, you know I

(12:19):
didn't understand. Zeb says he found the whole situation confusing
and was surprised to find himself buying a gun for Mickey.
And the thing is before all that I never would
have bought a gun for anybody, and I just didn't understand,
and I think I lacked a lot of confidence, and
I was scared a lot of things that were going on.

(12:41):
The next day, the background check comes back clean, and
Bass Pro Shop called Zeb he can pick up the gun,
so Zeb arranges to meet Mickey and Mickey, as usual,
first meets with his FBI agent handler to obtain a
recording device. Mickey's parked just hearse outside of barbershop in Denver.
He's waiting for Zeb. The Fuji's cover of Killing Me

(13:02):
softly plays on the stereo to tell Mickey's plan is
to have Zeb come up to the driver's side window

(13:22):
and hand him the gun. So we call Scott Dualstrom,
the FBI agent, to make sure the camera angle is clear.
He real quick, can you see my window pretty clear?
Tell me where I'm like? Automatic? Okay, cool, right, got it?
Thank you, goodbye. A couple of minutes later, Mickey gets

(13:44):
a text from Dhlstrom, the message can't be seen, but
based on Mickey's response, I suspect the agent reminds him
about the proper way to handle the gun as evidence.
Mickey looks down as the camera a little annoyed. Come off, Well,
I'm not new do this. That was Mickey spitting out

(14:04):
of the car. I already know I'm want to play
with it, look at it, lick it, touch it inappropriately,
smell it violated. About five minutes later, Ze pulls in
and he's trying to find a parking spot. Mickey hollers

(14:25):
at him through the open passengers side window. Yeah, just farm.
You make it look like we're trying to invade the
Finicon or something. Yeah, you're good, but don't ask Rod Stewarts.
Do you think I'm sexy? Plays on the car stereo.

(14:48):
Zeb walks up to Mickey's pastors side window. That, of
course won't work for the FBI since their camera is
facing the driver's side window on this side. Yeah, come
on the other side. On the other side, I got
like guns to sh Sorry, I gotta the ship shit

(15:10):
on the other side. Now. Zeb can be seen on
the FBI camera. He's wearing a black tshirt and he's
standing outside the driver's side door of Mickey's hearse Zeb
hand's Mickey the gun in its case, just like it
came from the store, and he put fancy hill stickers
on his bitch. That's nice? Is it cool? And nice?

(15:31):
Want to night? Let me what I know. After this
transaction with the gun, Zeb tells Mickey that he's strapped
for cash. Zeb says he needs money for first aid
supplies to care for demonstrators who get wounded by Denver
cops during the next protest. So Mickey gives Zeb one
hundred bucks and in about a week things will get wild.

(15:58):
A group of Antifa activists and Colorado Springs will post
a Twitter thread alleging that Mickey's an informant. Colorado Springs
Antifa post its Twitter thread on September second, twenty twenty,

(16:19):
accusing Mickey of being an informant. Mickey then sends the
anti fascist group a direct message offering a failed thread.
The anti fascist group posts a screenshot of Mickey's message
on Twitter as well. That's kind of fucked up that
you assumed without hitting me up and asking what's up?
Mickey writes, But I found out who Colorado Springs Antifa

(16:41):
is and I'm going to be dealing with them soon.
They might make the news. As the Twitter thread makes
the rounds, people immediately start talking. They're outraged. Here's that Paul,
and you know you heard through different groups. You kick
his ass on the site. Fuck him, don't let him
round the groups. This is an early September twenty and
by this point, so many people have been called informants,

(17:03):
Trey Mickey, some of the activists from the Young Democratic
Socialists of America, even ZEB. I think that's why I
got the snitch jacket as will, you know, because people
thought I was an informant, you know. And I think
a lot of other black and brown and even very white,
you know, either either leaders or allies, comrades, accomplices, whatever

(17:25):
you want to call them, you know, they got caught
up as well. There's so much suspicion of everyone that
it seems plausible that Mickey's being falsely accused. So Mickey
gathers ZEB and his y DSA allies in the apartment
in Denver, the one with the PKK flags. Yeah, I
was there, and it was just one of the most

(17:47):
fucked up situations I could ever imagine. Mickey has an
idea he'll record a video that responds to the allegations
that he's an informant. They put up a military flag
or whatever country he was at. You know, behind him
he had a cigar and he was like acting all
tough and shit. Who's throwing a low key threats like
he regularly did. Good evening or good morning. It's September

(18:14):
the third. In the video, there's that assault rifle leaning
up against the wall with a ball peen hammer and
a bottle of whiskey on the table. Mickey's wearing a
black tshirt that fits snugly around the shoulders and biceps.
On the shirt is a square image that's half American flag,
half Kurdish flag, and there's a punisher logo. The full

(18:37):
video runs about eight minutes. Mickey is angry. So there's
a group that or an individual that's claiming that they
are Antifa Colorado Springs, and in fact that that I
believe that they are actually not Antifa Colorado Springs, because
I believe they are actually a cop I for one,

(18:59):
have not amused or pleased about the fuckery that's going on.
I will clarify some things and I'm going to address
some some things real fucking quick, and this is not scripted.
Mickey goes on a tangent here about how he's a
battlehart and Peesh Murga fighter before getting back on track.

(19:21):
You can hide behind an anonymous website and an anonymous
profile talking all that shit about I'll tell him to
his face, No, you won't, because at the end of
the day, you come to me, I got something for you.
Mickey picks up the hammer. I am the type of
individual I don't give a fuck about going to prison.

(19:41):
I don't give a fuck about getting killed because, believe me,
I've fought Isis or Dash. I've fought Al Kayeeda, I
fought hubble Shabi, I fought in Iraq, and I fought
in Syria. I've trained real Antifa freedom fighters in both
those regions. And I am certainly not fucking scared of you.

(20:06):
I don't give a fuck about the cops, and I
don't care about the police. But I will tell this
to you right now, at the end of the day,
I do not agree nor accept fascism. I do not
accept an agree oppression. That's what I fought against and
that's what I'm still fighting against. But I understand this.

(20:28):
If you come to me fucked up. I'm gonna fuck
you up. Play stupid games when stupid prizes. This propaganda
shite you guys post it doesn't mean fuck all to me.
If you're trying to implicate that I'm a fucking snitch,
check this out three things. I ain't a punk, I
am a bitch, and I in a fucking snitch. You

(20:52):
should ask who the real fucking punk er bitches or
who the real fucking snitches. It's a care fully choreographed
message full of bravado. Mickey's a talented liar. It's hard
to sense his desperation under all the chest thumping, but
the video doesn't stop all the whispers about Mickey. The

(21:15):
challenge Mickey faces and trying to preserve his cover is
that anyone accused of being a snitch will say I
in a snitch, So how can you possibly know who's
telling the truth. Two days later, Mickey tries to get
ahead of the story with the help of the y
DSA activists who are still enamored with him. Mickey records
a Q and a video on Twitter. More than one

(21:37):
thousand people of view it live. It's posted to Mickey's
Twitter account, His user name is and no I'm not
joking here, it's isis killer Kitten. The video begins with Honor,
one of the y DSA activists, asking Mickey a question
and why are you doing this to get the truth.

(21:59):
In her interview, Mickey answers questions from Honor about his
long criminal record, which is feeding suspicions among activists that
he could be working for the police. Do you regard
your criminal history? Yeah, yeah, I definitely do, you know.
I mean, it made me who I am in some ways,
but reality, yeah, I wish I could go back. Yeah.

(22:24):
In particular, activists have raised a lot of questions about
Mickey's sex crime, which, as he might remember, Mickey pleaded
down to misdemeanor third degree sexual assault when he was twenty.
He had sex with a fourteen year old, but claimed
he didn't know the girl was under age. Mickey tries
to address the concerns. Can you describe your reaction to

(22:47):
the recent discussion of your sexual assault charge so I
can regroup dating, fucking It's been talked about so many times,
and the thing is it was a fucked up situation,
which I personally say, you know, I did some stupid
ship first admitted believing, so you wouldn't say that you

(23:10):
have any sort of a pattern of repeated sexual violence reviews. No, No,
it's if I did, I'm sure I would not be
setting here, you know, drinking whiskey, smoked a cigar out
in public. If I was a sexual prediture. There are
sexual creditors that do look pretty freely though. Oh yeah, absolutely,

(23:34):
And I think personally they should get a bullet the
fucking head. This goes on for a bit with Mickey
describing how he's misunderstood and I was really an ally
to the racial justice movement. Then Honor asked a question
about his role in that movement. Do you see yourself
as any sort of leader in the protest? No, I
don't want to be. I want to be a fucking

(23:55):
leader at the end of the day, Look, lu tay
something out of these people. And I'm not trying to
sound mean, but a lot. Nothing's been fucking done. Nothing's
been fucking done, no cost. I've been fired, There's been
no restitution, no apologies, there's been no court cases, there's
been no punishment, there's been no changes of policy. We

(24:18):
got people, more people living on the fucking streets. We
got black people still being fucking killed in Kenosha, California. Fuck.
I could go on for hours, all the fucking places.
That's just the ship that we've seen on camera. And
at the end of the day, No, I don't find
myself as a leader because in reality, I'm not the

(24:38):
leader type like that. I can't sit there and say, oh, yeah,
I'm totally a leader because here's the thing, and this
is what I'm I look at is I can't sit
there and say that I'm a fucking leader because at
the end of the day, I'm not a black man,
I'm not a black woman, I'm not a transgender, I'm

(24:59):
not gay, I'm not by, I'm not pansexual. I have
no room to fucking lead anything. But it's something fucks
with you. I'm there to defend you. I'm an ally.
That's it. Honestly, I don't think in reality, and I
know it's gonna sounds kind of sucked up in maybe racist.
I don't think a white man or a white woman

(25:20):
should be speaking on black matters. Show them support, but
shut the fuck up and let them talk. Black lives
do matter. It's their business. At this point. Aiden another
y DSA activist takes over for honor. So there have
been a number of people online recently who have been

(25:43):
labeling you a snitch or informant or narc or otherwise.
What do you have to say to them? And about that? Okay, yeah,
so anybody had been around pretty much? How many times
have my name been on court paperwork arrest? After David
to zero. Here's the thing for you, if you've ever
been in the fucking legal system, just ask for emotion

(26:04):
to discovery. It gives you all the information of the case.
It'll say confidential format, It'll say blah blah, blah blah.
I will say this. Then then you can actually read
how they've got the charge to be fought against you.
And I'll bet you my name. I'll bet you my
motherfucking balls. Becau says, everybody wants to be on my dick.
I'll bet you my car, whatever you want, my name

(26:27):
is on it. None of that ship. That's a bad
bet for Mickey to make, because, as he's saying this,
Mickey's name is on dozens of reports inside the FBI's
den for office, but no one knows that yet. The
two primary hy DSA activists who unwittingly helped Mickey our

(26:48):
Honor and Aiden. I call Honor first. Hello, Hi, it
makes meet the Honor please ye. Hey, my name is
Trevor Aaronson. So the reason I'm calling is I'm doing
a story about a guy named Mickey Windecker and his
work with the FBI, and you know, I ended up
getting copies of recordings and reports, and you were named

(27:10):
as one of the people that you know, he was
essentially spying on. Honor hangs up on me, so I
call Aiden. Your name came up in some of the
files as someone that Mickey was spying on, So I
was wondering if you'd be willing to talk to me
a little bit about him. No, I don't know anything
about that. Are you sure you're not in trouble in

(27:32):
any way? Where are those files? The FBI files? So
they're not public? They were they were leaked to me.
There there FBI internal files. I'm not interested in talking
about any of this. I don't want my name involved
with any of this. I don't have any knowledge of anything.
I'm I'm trying to stay as far away from this

(27:55):
as possible, and I don't want anything to do with it.
I don't want to talk about it at all, since
Honor and Aiden didn't cooperate with me, and because they
have not been charged with a crime as a result
of Mickey's activity, I'm not using their last names here
at some point, and I don't know exactly why, since
they won't talk to me about it. Honor and Aiden

(28:17):
wised up and abandoned Mickey. The y DSA activists believe
quote the FEDS were watching. According to an FBI internal report,
there's one activist who came around to this realization very slowly.
Zeb Hall was there in the apartment as Mickey recorded

(28:38):
the videos, and it was there that things stopped making sense.
He didn't buy all of Mickey's explanations. Mickey made a
bunch of threats, suggesting to Zeb that maybe Mickey has
something to hide. Days earlier, Zeb had bought Mickey a gun,
And now for the first time he has suspicions about Mickey.

(29:02):
It really was starting to become evident at that point
for me when that came out. Then, you know, finally
out about his like you thought at that point that
it was possible he was an informant. I felt that
he probably more than like it was. And then what
are you thinking about the fact that a lot of
a gun At that point, I'm fucked. Yeah, Zep's fucked.

(29:24):
That's in the next episode. This is Trojan Hearse, Season
one of Alphabet Boys. Alphabet Boys is a production of
Western Sound and iHeart Podcasts. The show is reported, written,
and hosted by me, Trevor Aaronson. For more information about
the series or to drop us a tip, head to

(29:45):
our website Alphabet Boys dot x y z. You can
contact me on Twitter and Instagram at Trevor Aaronson. We
believe this story is important and could result in changes
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people need to hear this story, so we need your help. First,
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(30:06):
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