May 5, 2025 • 35 mins
We continue our look back at Season 1—this time with Charlotte's secret lover, Shmuel, portrayed by Glenn Fleshler. He shares what it was like to go to work and make out with Kristin Davis.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hi, I'm Kristin Davis, and I want to know are
you a Charlotte? Hello everybody, and welcome to Are You
a Charlotte? I have a very special guest today. This
is Glenn Fleshler. He played school you guys. It's so
exciting to talk to Glenn. He was in episode one
(00:23):
oh six Secret Sex. This is the first season and
I haven't seen him in person in many, many, many years,
but I have seen his work so many times. And
he's currently starring with George Clooney on Broadway and good
Night and good Luck. So he took time on his
day off to talk to us, and here is the
lovely Glenn Fleschler. Glenn Fleshler's here. I'm so excited, thank
(00:49):
you for joining us.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
It's an honor and a trip.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
It is a trip, right.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
You know.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
What is so funny to me about you is that,
obviously we were together on the show Sex and the
City first season. Wait, what was the one called that
he's in the Secret Sex, Secret Sex? That's right, And
I mean that was really early in the show and
you had your whole costume on, you know, But ever
since then, you've been working so much and i'd been watching,
(01:17):
so they'd be like, that looks like that guy, and
I'd be watching, like that looks like that guy. But
like in my mind, you kind of were smool, you
know what I mean? The character right, So then and
you play like these heavies, like you play like so
many different like really like intense guys. Right, I'm like,
am I am I crazy? Or is that that guy
(01:39):
and that.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Terrible guy doing those terrible things.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
I know you do some many bad things, but those
are fun parts.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Right they are? They are?
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Yeah. Well, I'm so happy for all of your success,
and I'm so happy that we were your first job.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
My first job on my first TV show, I think, okay.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
In my first TV show, there you go. So help
me remind me of it. Tell me where you were
at and what it was like to get cast in
the show.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Well, I went to acting school at NYU and found
myself very in debt and trying to work my way
out of that by doing off Broadway shows in regional theater,
which is a fools errant.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Oh I did that too, so hard, Yeah, but I
loved it.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
But I really just you know, had no idea how
I was going to go for it, and I always
loved film and television, but everyone said, you know, you
have to go to la if you want to do that,
and I resisted that notion being a native New Yorker, right,
And there wasn't really too much. I mean, HBO is
just starting to do some things in New York, and
Law and Order had just kind of fired up their franchises,
(02:42):
and there were a few things and some indie films.
So the weird thing is, you know, it's weird to
say this to you because very few people have played
one character for something. I know it's you guys in Marishka.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
Totally, totally. We're a very lucky group.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
But as a character actor, you know, you kind of
want to do different things. That's sort of the fun
of doing it. But I've noticed in my career that
you get you go through these little mini runs where
it's like, oh, now I'm playing all these killers, or
now I'm playing these like tough attorneys, or And that
year that I met you, it was hasidic Jews. I
(03:26):
played one off Broadway, and I played.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
One in a movie with Renee Zellwegger.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Yes with Renee Yes.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
I saw that and I was like, there, he.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Is who just returned to my life a few days ago.
She came to see my show.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
Actually, ooh, that's so nice. She's so sweet.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
But yeah, I did this Miramax movie and but then
I had my own beard and my own hair. And
then that summer I shaved my head for the first time,
which I wore my head shaved for for several year.
But a director first asked me to shave my head
for a role in a play I was doing. And
I got the audition for Sex in the City and
(04:07):
I had it. Also was kind of seminole because I
realized through this job that I needed to get a
new agent, because the head of the agency, who never
really dealt with me very much, but she called me
with this audition. This is Sex in the City. You know,
it's this snooz show Darren Starr blah blah blah Sarah Jesca,
And I said, well, I played, you know, that other
(04:31):
hasidic Jewish character, but now my head shaved, and that
you should bring pictures from the movie. You'll give your
right arm. It's television, you know.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
And I just thought that's not the way I want
to approach my career.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Totally, totally and.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
I didn't do any of that. I simply went to
the audition thinking there's no I think I had a
goatee and a shaved head, and I thought, there's no
way in hell they're going to cast me. I think
it was Michael Patrick Ca, maybe just him. I don't remember.
I don't remember if I went in once or twice,
but I just, you know, did a very simple audition
and I got the role. I was so shocked. So
(05:10):
they built me all that stuff, the beer pas and
the wig. And you were the only person that I
did not meet in the makeup trailer. So when you
say that, I don't know. I actually was at the
I was in the cafeteria wherever you ate, right, and
(05:30):
I ate a meal, and I saw all of you
across the room, and I knew who all the other
three women were, and I knew that you had been
on Melrose Place, but I don't know your work, forgive me.
So I saw you. I think your hair was like.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
In oh yeah, sure, yeah, yeah, interesting.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
So I spied you from across the room and I said, Okay,
this is going to be fun.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Oh thank god. Oh I'm so glad.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
You know, I basically my first TV job was having
to make out with you and smoke cigarettes all night
and that's basically and lie like in bed afterwards.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
Yeah, and Williamsburg I was.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
Like, you know, I don't mind getting paid for that.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
On a side, Oh that's nice, sus enjoying it was good.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
I remember the look on your face because I had
I think I had talked to the other women and
they welcomed me to the show and all of that,
and of course the show hadn't aired, so nobody knew
what it was, right, And I remember walking on set
and you didn't see me until I was all done up,
you know, with all this hair, and I remember the
like fearful look in your acts, and I just walked
(06:35):
right up to you and said, look, I'm the love
of your life and I don't want to hear anything
about it or something like that.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
Well, good on you.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
We had a fun time, as I recall.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
We totally had a fun time. You were my absolute
favorite of the entire first season. I don't even really
remember the second season, so I'm just gonna go with
favorite of first and second season because you were very present.
I just remember you being very present, which is why
when I would see you later in your in your career,
I'd be like that guy. He was so good. He
was so good because, you know, in the beginning, because
(07:04):
no one knew, you know, what we were, what we
were doing, including kind of ourselves. Right in terms of Charlotte,
she was very underwritten in the beginning. We were just
kind of finding her. And I was just trying to,
you know, like pull it off, because I certainly was
not one of these Manhattan women in any way, like
kind of nervously, you know, just doing whatever they wrote
(07:26):
for me weeks a week, which was kind of wild,
like it would be all over the place, you know,
And I was supposed to be the prude. Yet I
was really quite adventurous, I would say. And I loved
the storyline because it was such a you know, it
was like it's little world unto itself, right. And we
went to Williamsburg, which back then was like I had
(07:47):
never been to Williamsburg. It wasn't cool and hip like
it is that.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
I always thought we were in Silver Cup.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
But oh we could have been. We could have been.
I mean, I remember how I walked down the streets.
I don't know, you probably haven't watched it. I just
recently rewatched it for the podcast. I walked down the street,
so maybe I was there without you, and probably so
if we were in the cafeteria that's like on one
floor of Silver Cup, and then our dressing rooms were
down on it.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
And I also remember I don't know if I came
another day to do a fitting or something, but I
remember at some point being at Silver Cup and they
were like, do you want to come in and say
hi to Michael, who was I think directing our episode,
And I said sure, and I walked onto set and
again hadn't done television, and I think there was a
kickboxing scene going on.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
Oh yeah, yeah, Miranda, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
A little set that they'd made, and it was so tiny,
and that blew my mind because I was like, I
bet on TV, this looks like a normal gym, but
it was like such a tiny little set that they'd
payed for this little scene. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
Well, also, we just didn't really have budget in the beginning,
you know, so like we must have I thought we
I thought that the loft that you know, your like
artist loft or whatever, I thought was actually in Williamsburg,
because I remember going to Williamsburg because there's a little
shop where walking down the street, and I remember being
there because at some point they found out that we
(09:05):
were filming there, that we've gotten a permit, and they
ran us off. They were basically like get out, you know,
because they didn't know a what we were and b
were named Sex and the City, which is a problem.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
That happened in the Rene Zellweger movie. Also, we had
a lot of trouble.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
Wow wow different times.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
The movie was but they were assuming and right there
was a lot of stuff in the newspapers about our
shoot and wow wow.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
So but I hadn't remembered. I do know that like
either we built the loft in Silver Cup or we
were in some other place in Manhattan, because sometimes we'd
like cross purpose because we didn't have enough money to
really get like locations.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
You know, for your Silver Cup.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
But I could totally be wrong, right, I mean, we
were there a lot, and we would build all kind
of crazy things like the boxing studio and yoga and
this and that. But yeah, it is funny to think
back on how kind of small and underwhelming our beginnings
words in production wise, you know, like funny considering where
(10:09):
we are now, Yes, which is a good thing. So
it was a positive experience, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
You know, it's funny to me. I was very tickled
to be asked, and I was excited to see you
again after all these years. Yeah, and I'm so just
impressed with where this is all gone for you. And
I listened to your some of your early podcasts, and
it was great for me to learn your journey a
little bit because I don't know the show very well.
So that's why I was sort of like those Sex
(10:36):
in the City and I'm coming on this podcast. But
the weird thing is that it has had such cast,
such a huge shadow. I don't know if that's the
right metaphor, but I had such a long reach in
my career and for years, particularly when I hadn't done
a lot of film and television. You know, I would
go around the country doing plays and sex and the
City would be in my bio and there wasn't much
(10:58):
else as far as film and television, and women would
come up to me. I mean, this is like all
over the country wherever I was working. Yeah, people would
want to talk about that, and they'd come up to
me and say things like, are you mister pussy is
the dil do guy? You know, like stuff, and I
love the show, but I was like, okay, I'm getting
a sense of like what maybe is going on on
(11:19):
this show?
Speaker 1 (11:19):
Oh my god, that's so embarrassing. I'm sorry, but that
is funny. Did you say no, I'm sure, I guess yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
As soon as you say it, they're like, oh my god,
I know the episode, Like people still to this day
like my hair my hairdresser in the Good Nighting to
look my show on Broadway. Yeah. Yeah, was like I'm
right away when I said I was going to do
this podcast, she said she knew the episode.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
Oh that's nice. That is literally why I'm doing the
podcast because also, as you say, who would have ever
thought in a million, one hundred years that we would
still be being discovered by new people, being discussed you know,
the old show, but also then continuing with them just
like that and have in the movies. None of it,
(12:01):
none of it would have been anything that any of
us would have dreamt up. So that's why I wanted
to do the podcast in a way to kind of
have a way to talk about it, to also talk
about you know, it is so interesting to think about
where we all were. You know, we all came from
all these different backgrounds and how we all came together.
You know, it is such a collaborative art form and
(12:22):
you don't always get to share these things. And I
wanted to kind of create a tapestry of, you know,
like who the people actually are and who they were
and what's happened to them since, and that the people
who stand out to me, which you're definitely one of it,
and also the people who stand out to the fans,
because I don't think that the fans connect your whole
career with that you're schmul You're saying most people don't.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
Every once in a while it comes up, though, It's
as though people are the one to discover it. You know.
He was on sections say, there have been magazine articles
and I actually had a director run up to me.
I was doing Spring Awakening on Broadway. Wow, and the
director came running and so excited and he said, you're
number thirty five of men in Sex and the City
in a weekly magazine or something. I was like, you know,
(13:05):
by that point, it had been so long and I
was such a little part of it, and I know
you had like a zillion great actors come through there,
and so.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
I was one of them, I was sure or one
of them. Glad, Let's talk about the play too, because
I'm so excited that you're on Broadway with George. I'm
so excited you guys are doing good Night and good Luck.
It's like fantastic. I can't wait to see it. How's
(13:36):
it going.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
It's going very well. It's been quite a ride. I
haven't been on stage for ten years.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
Wow, So that was really how you started?
Speaker 2 (13:45):
That was how I started. Yeah, it was like breathing
to me back then. And then things kind of shifted
in my life. I had a kid, I started doing
more film and television, which I always wanted to do,
but I also was a little kind of burned out
and looking for a change. And yeah, occasionally something would
cross MyD It's not like anyone was begging me to
come back. Occasionally something would cross my path. But I
(14:06):
was just like, it had to be the right thing,
because I knew George. You know, not always you know,
this might surprise you, but not always working with a
big celebrity it's not always the best thing.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
What did.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
And you know, I've been mostly lucky actually, But because
I knew George, I was like, well, he's going to
be great, and yeah, he loves to have a good time.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
And yeah, so smart and so smart.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
Funny and serious at the same time. Yeah, And I've
just been so in awe of the way he's handled
this whole thing, being a first time playwright, being a
first time actor on Broadway, leading man on Broadway. Yeah,
he's just handled it with such class and calm. And
you know, I would say to him, like, you know,
we're in tech for this very complicated, intense show. It's
(14:54):
okay if you want to like lose your shit once
in a while. And he just was so easy it all.
It was like as though we've been doing it his
whole life.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
So he is amazing. I worked with him first season
of Er, and I had a teeny teeny part right
where I had to audition i want to say, four times,
you know, like some crazy thing because they even though
it was the first season, it was very it had
that like magic about it, you know, and it was
just kind of going up in the ratings. And he
(15:22):
was so incredible and such a even then, he was
so incredibly smart about the business, you know, like like
like level headed and like you know, such a great mentor,
like he would just you know, he would ask you
questions and then he would say, oh, yeah, you're going
to be fine because you've got this quality, that quality,
that quality, and this is what you need to do, Like,
(15:43):
don't get hung up on the things that you don't
get because those weren't meant for you, and the things
that are meant for you. Just give your all and
you know, show up. And you know, he just had
such a great, like kind of a cheerleading quality even
back then.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
You know, yeah, he still liked that. And you know
one of the things that differentiates him is that he
did struggle for a while. He did. You know, he
loves to talk about all his failed pilots and all
his you know, his time on like Facts of Life
and Roseanne as like you know, cars and recurring characters
and and you know that kind of gave him perspective
on like how lucky he was to do we Are
(16:16):
and to have his film career, and then he just
works so hard to parlay that into so many incredible.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
Projects absolutely and produce so many beautiful things, and then
to be a Broadways.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
To discover talent. He loves casting, he loves all that.
That whole part of it you.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
Know, and he's just so good at it and it's
just so exciting to have him on Broadway. I think
it's a great thing. That kind of I felt like
when I started, and because you went to MU, I
don't know how you felt about it. They were kind
of like you had to kind of pick a lane,
right like I'm a theater actor. Oh, I'm a TV actor.
Oh I'm a film actor. And now it's all just.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
Well, I never I always kind of rejected that idea,
but you can feel the industry trying to do that
to you. Yeah, well you did this thing. That's why
I said, like it would kind of go on threes
for me, like three has jews, so I'd have to say, like, Okay,
I need to pivot, you know what I mean. You
have to know where your bread is buttered in a way.
We have to work as actors, but also just in
(17:10):
the back of your mind to think, like, well, what's
different than the last thing I did? Yeah, And you know,
I'm right now coming off a run of like four
independent films since the strikes and all the things that
were going on, and it was good and I like
indie films, yeah, and they were all different and whatever,
but I kind of felt like, Okay, I need something
else to happen, and then this just kind of came along.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
And it was wonderful. How amazing. I mean, yes, I
am jealous of that in a way because obviously we
have had this one thing that has just like, you know,
lived and lived and lived. And the wonderful thing about
it is that, hey, luckily I always liked Charlotte, but
b we've had this incredible relationship with Michael Patrick where
he continues to write in ways that are challenging and deeper,
(17:54):
and you know, to have one character and then get
to go through so many changes and and you know,
phases in parts of her life, like it's very rare.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
Well, that's why it's lasted, because you haven't just rested
on your laurels. You know, the fact that you've allowed
those characters to grow and that Michael has. Yeah, it's
part of the secret of your longevity.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
I'm sure, I agree, absolutely, And I think it's also
because if we weren't still interested, it wouldn't be interesting
to watch, right, Like, you have to be invested, you know,
in what you're doing and feel like there is something
exciting and new and I always feel that way. But
I mean again, it is kind of weird because when
you're starting, you're thinking, like I always thought, I mean,
(18:36):
Broadway is my highest height of height that could happen, right,
And so in the meantime you're doing regional theater. And
I also had an epipty. I think I was in Cincinnati,
where George is from, doing a play at the They
have like a theater up on a hail at a park.
It's really pretty. I was doing I think I was
doing much to do about nothing, and I was like,
(18:58):
I'm making like eight hundred and forty a week and
I can't have a dog, you know, because like I'm
traveling the country, Like this is not sustainable. What do
you how how do people do this? Like wow, it's hard,
you know. So that that was a bit of a
shock because I thought, oh, yeah, that would be amazing
to be a journeyman, you know, regional theater actor. I
(19:20):
thought that would be great. Then I got there and
I was like, hmmm, hard, hard, really hard, it's hard.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
You know. Yeah, that's that was kind of a model.
It's I don't know if people can sustain that anymore.
I think back in the day in that sort of
era before we came up, there were people who just
could have like a regional theater career, and there were
also like more companies across the country, you know that
would foster actors' careers. So it got harder to do.
(19:47):
But at one time I was like, Yeah, this is
romantic and it's great and when you're young, you know,
it seems really cool. And plus I needed a place
to sleep, so you know, i'd live in some housing,
you know, in some city, you know, a couple of
months at a time, and it would tiede me over,
you know, until my next sub letter couch that I
was sleeping on or whatever.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
Wow, amazing. But then so in terms of Broadway itself,
like I eventually got to Broadway with James Earl Jones,
which was of course a dream and a miracle, and
you know, still just like a like almost like I
dreamt the whole thing. It's a fantasy. It was so
incredible just to go to the theater every day, you
know and think like I'm in this show on Broadway,
(20:27):
Like what the heck? Like do you feel that way?
How do you feel?
Speaker 2 (20:30):
You know, I'm very grizzled. I got took me a
very long time to get to Broadway. It like you,
it was a big goal for me. It was a
big deal. I grew up in New York going to
see Broadway shows, so it was a big deal to me.
But the difference from those like regional theater off Broadway
days was it's a very commercial venture. Yeah, kind of
(20:54):
dig their heels in, We're going to run this show
for a long time, and like this is my territory.
It's like a different feeling. I had a lot of
great experiences, but I ended up cranking out six Broadway
shows in five years.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
And by the end of that, and I wanted the
experience of like a long run, because you know, when
you do a regional show, you know it's a couple
months and then you're done. And usually I wanted to
be done. But I would wonder about the people who
did long runs on Broadway and these kind of legendary
people who played one part for a long time, like
how do you do that? And how do you keep
it alive for that long? And I wanted to have
that experience and I did, and then I just realized, oh,
(21:29):
it makes me completely crazy, Like I wanted to keep
it fresh and you know, you know, people are paying
a lot of money, and you know, I take that
all very seriously, but it kind of it can kind
of make you crazy.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
Oh definitely. It's so hard. It's so incredibly hard to
do one show eight times a week. One show eight
times a week is a fascinating challenge. I mean, Sex
and the City and just like that is a different challenge,
right because you're playing the same character, but you're in
different situations. You know, different things are happening, and sometimes
it's funny and sometimes it's serious. But when you're doing
(22:02):
the same exact story night after night after night, oh wow,
it was like fascinating. I've never had a long run
either though, but just doing eight shows a week is
just a whole thing.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
It is, it's a thing. You know, this has been amazing,
but it has been an incredible amount of work, just
a lot of mental It's like the most kind of
mentally challenging, one of them most interesting challenging things I've done,
because it's you know, and also that it's that thing.
I don't know if you've had this opportunity to like
play a real life person, real person.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
I have it's so stressful.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
Well you want to honor that life, you know, and
so it also comes with that, and we're all playing
real people.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
Yeah, and you're playing great people, which is super fascinating.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
Yeah, but you know, complicated and yeah, it's a really
amazing moment in time, moment in history. So it's taken
a lot. Plus we have, you know, multimedia things going on.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
I heard, I read, I read in some of the
glowing reviews.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
But it's going really well and people love it. I
think people are kind of hungry for this kind of
thing right now, to hear the language that Edward R.
Murrow spoke in the fifties and speaking truth to power
and people just kind of like being at their best
doing great things. And you know, and a lot of
time people were it was earlier in their careers. Not Murrow,
but a lot of the other characters you're seeing them.
(23:18):
You know, they went on to be legendary news people,
but at this point they didn't know if they were
going to make it to next week. You know.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
That's amazing. Yeah, that's amazing, and what an incredible thing
to be doing right now in our world.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
Yeah, it feels good. It's a lot of time where
it feels like, you know, you can feel very helpless.
You know, it can feel like, well, yeah, what can
I do? This just feels like to go to work
and be like, Okay, this is why I'm an actor
and this is what I'm doing.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
Yeah, you don't feel it very often. Really landing with
people so great, it's super exciting. Can I just tell
you a little anecdote about James Earl Jones?
Speaker 2 (23:53):
Yeah, what was the show that you've give it?
Speaker 1 (23:55):
It was The Best Man, which we used to do
like every election time there would be a version of
the Best Man.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
Was that with Michael Wilson.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
Yeah, I love Michael Wilson so much, so much.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
I didn't remember that you did that.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
I shouldn't say, yes I did. And the weirdest thing
about it was that so I replaced Oh, I'm not
going to remember her name, Carrie something I replaced. I
was like the second cast. So it was it was
the most incredible cast all the way around. But Michael
Wilson had said to me, we tried to get you
in the beginning. I mean I was like, well, uh,
I never heard that. What what like that's like your
(24:31):
worst nightmare as an actor, right, like this, someone tried
to get you in a Broadway show, and somehow your
agents didn't feel like telling you. It was one of
those moments where I do think there was an agency's change.
You do have those times.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
I've knowd that a couple of times, not often, but
once in a while. I tried to get this. Did
you ever hear about this?
Speaker 1 (24:46):
And I know you're like, how could this happen? Like
like this is something that of course I would have
moved heaven and Earth to do, Like with James Earl Jones,
I'm sorry, also an incredible rest of the cast, but
like James Earl Joe Jones, I mean, come on. So anyway,
I replaced with John Stamos. We came in to replace
Eric McCormack and Carrie Something's very nice, and it was
(25:11):
John Learriquette, you know, It's like everyone was amazing. Kennis Bergen,
I mean it was. It was so incredible, So I
would I was. I came on kind of late in
the first act, and I had a lot of time
to kill and I was so incredibly nervous to be
on the stage with these people, and I'd never been
on Broadway. I'd grown up doing theater. I'd done theater
a Rutgers, I'd gone to their BFA program, but I
(25:33):
was rusty, you know. I was like, ah, so scared.
And John was like the best co star in the world,
but he had to go on right, So I was
just by myself and I would go downstairs because they
had built a dressing room for James Earl Jones that
was on the same floor as the stage so that
he didn't have to go up and down the stairs,
and I would just go down there to hang out
with him, because he would just hang He loved people.
(25:55):
He loved to talk to everybody, so you could like
stop in his dressing room and talk to him, or
like sit backstage and talk to him or watch him
and he would change up stuff every night. It was incredible.
It is amazing when you get to meet people who
obviously you've admired your whole life, and you know, watch
(26:15):
their work and whatnot, and to be around them and
then to see whatever way because there's so many different
ways to make it work.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
You know. Yeah, I mean I that was my last
experience really of being on stage. I became the sort
of go to person that could do these littler parts
or a little understudy roles and be on stage with
Meryl Streep or al Pacino or walk in. And so
I had this run. I mean, I went to London
and did at play with Maggie Smith. It was all
(26:43):
kind of in a row. So I was like, what's
happening after? Like, no one knew who the hell I
was for years. You know, It's suddenly I was having
these opportunities. But I also I felt like if I
had stayed just doing theater, then I would have been
like understudy to the stars or something, you know not.
And so I knew that there was were out there
for me to do it. I wanted the challenge of
(27:03):
you know, I felt like film and television even though
I was doing it here and there along the way.
I just in fact, I remember about you, about watching
you work because it was my first TV gig, and
I was a little, of course nervous about it and
didn't know that didn't know the technique or you know.
I don't know if I still do, but I definitely
at that time didn't know, you know. And I remember
(27:26):
watching you and thinking like, oh, she's done a lot.
I don't know if I thought you were on a
soap or had done. I knew you had done some stuff,
but it was just like your comfort level on camera.
Like that really struck me because I was like, oh,
she's just so easy and for me, I had these
like few lines and this little part, but it's like,
you know, becomes so important, you know, which makes it hard.
(27:47):
Those little parts are really hard.
Speaker 3 (27:55):
Hey everyone, I'm Jenna bush Haager from The Today Show
and I'm excited to share my podcast Book with Jenna.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
It is back for season two.
Speaker 3 (28:03):
Each week's celebrities, experts, friends, and authors will share candid
stories with me about their lives and new projects. Guest
like Rebecca Yarros, Kristin Hannah, I Go Wodem and more.
Like a good book, you'll leave feeling inspired and entertained.
Join me for my podcast Open Book with Jenna. To
start listening, just search Open Book with Jenna wherever you
(28:23):
get your podcasts.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
That's what struck me, and I'm glad to hear you
say that, because, like I said, my memory of myself
first season was that I was kind of a mess,
or that I felt inside like a mess. You know.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
Of course that was interesting for me to hear you
say that on some of the other pods you did,
because I was like, oh, to me, you were just like,
oh the season pro from LA and like, you know,
just really easy, and I was just like, ugh, I
need some of that.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
Well, actually, well this is what I felt about you.
And it must have been either and because I barely remember,
like there's that I don't remember, like like I should
have come talk to you in the cafeteria or whatever.
Like I don't know what was going on with me
that I wasn't. I was probably we're probably running lines
or so, who knows, but you know what struck me
Compared to we did have this whole kind of run
(29:13):
of these young men who came on the show right
first season, second season before the show really hit, and
they were in what we think was going on, which
we don't know, but we would discuss it when they
weren't there. It was weird because the men were the
girlfriend parts right like in a way that they weren't
really used to being and they seemed perplexed about how
(29:35):
to do that, you know, whereas all of us very
well versed in how to do that because that was
basically what you got to do in TV and film
back then. You know what I mean, unless you were
Meryl Street.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
That's what I heard from all my female friends, my
actress friends. It's like it's another girlfriend, part yeah wife, you.
Speaker 1 (29:53):
Know exactly exactly, And they're very hard in a certain
way because you kind of have to figure the guy
out and what they want and.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
How to make me a person. You want to be
a person, not.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
You want to be whole absolutely, And what I remember
about you, and maybe I knew about your theater record
or maybe I didn't, I kind of just felt like
you were this schmoolt like for whatever reason, and I
just remember you being so present, and that's really what
you want. That's really the basic gist of everything that
you want in a in a especially in a romantic thing,
(30:24):
because you want to have it, have some life, and
it can't even even with the incredible writing that we had,
which first season, we're still finding ourselves, but like they
wrote really well, but if you're not present with the
other person, you're just doing you're having to do so
much more work, you know. And I remember you just
being a breath of fresh air in that regard, which
is why I always had such a fond, fond memory
(30:46):
of like, oh, that was a great storyline.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
Thank god, I'm amazing you even remember it after all that.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
Yeah, I mean it stood out. It really stood out.
There's a lot of things about first season.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
To me, that's a tribute to you because I just
feel like you made me so after that initial thing
of that look in.
Speaker 1 (31:00):
Your eyes seeing me, I'm sorry, that's okay.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
I think you were right. I would have sure.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
I was a little like, I was like, Wow, they
really went for it, and I think that's what I thought,
because that's what I thought when I rewatched it. I
was like, Wow, I forgot that they really really went
for it.
Speaker 2 (31:15):
Wow, right, because nobody was doing that on TV before
your show. I don't think you know that you would
see something like that and that's right, and you know
there were laughs, but it was like you're also trying
to play it for real kind of And in fact,
I remember I was think I was at a Shakespeare
festival that summer when the show aired, and I was like,
(31:35):
you know, I don't know what I thought about the
show and like how that was going to come off
and anything. I was a little worried to watch it,
but I get it. But this friend of mine who
was in the cast was like, we're going to gather
everybody and we're going to watch this show. And so
we watched it like late at night. Somebody recorded it
after a performance, I think, and we're sitting in this
(31:57):
like housing were in all watching it and there's like
a moment I'm like eyeballing you, and then I like
flick a cigarette and the whole room erupted. I remember
that response. I was like, oh, I guess this works.
Like I had no idea.
Speaker 1 (32:09):
That was amazing.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
I know that it was anything. I knew that it
was good working with you, but beyond that, I had
no idea how it would come across. So it was
kind of funny to do it with a room full
of people my first thing and just have people like
go crazy.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
You know, that's amazing. I love that. I mean that
is the one thing about television that's sometimes a bummer
is that you don't get to see the audience reaction,
you know, Like it's just such a joy when because
we would usually premiere the first two episodes like with
a group, and it's such a joy because when you're
working and you watch yourself by yourself, you're always critical,
you're always going to have some critical whatevers, but if
(32:44):
you can watch everyone else respond, it takes that away
and you can Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
I've been lucky enough to have a few shows where,
you know, you got to go to a big premiere
or something and they'd show the first episode or two
and you get to do that with a theater full
of people. That is great.
Speaker 1 (32:57):
It is great. And that's the great thing about theater two.
It's just that immediate. You're just immediately in sancly, what's happening.
I know it. Well, what a joy, what a joy
you are And I'm going to come see that show
and I can't wait. And I wish you all the
success in the world, and thank you for coming on
the podcast.
Speaker 2 (33:15):
It's really been a privilege and to you all, I know.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
And that's also what I love about acting, right, Like
you get to meet so many different people and then
you don't know if you'll see them again, or if
you won't, or if you'll get to see their work,
and like, it's just been such a joy over the
years to be like, oh my god, that's that guy there.
He is killing people.
Speaker 2 (33:35):
Yeah. Yeah, one theater director I had said, we're friends
of the heart, you know, because we don't see each other.
We don't know I will see each other if well. But
you know, you see the person's work and you go, oh,
that's my person. I know.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
That's so true. That's so true, and you feel connected,
you are connected. That's a good point. I like that.
I like that very much. Well, Friend of the Heart,
go and have a good show. Oh you don't have
a show tonight, have a good week of shows.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
I have a day off, have a day off.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
Thank you for talking to me on your day off.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
It's been such a such a pleasure, and it's great
to see you. And congratulations on everything and on this podcast,
which I think is so awesome. You're really you're really
working very hard.
Speaker 1 (34:11):
I can I am working very hard make it what
I wanted to be. You know, it's an ongoing process.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
Material And because you had so many great actors on
the show over the years, you know, I know from
the New York theater side of things, like all the
kind of cool people you've had coming through, I think
it would be a blast.
Speaker 1 (34:29):
Yeah, that's the joy, you know of working in New
York and getting to have those people. And I've just
been really picky about who I've had on, but you
have been on my list and thank you, thank you
for coming through because there are people where people talk
about them like you. And also Andrea book Telly who
played the modelizer, the model guy, the Bone they called
him in the first or second episode. No one has
(34:51):
found him for years. I mean, he's not like you,
he's not a he's a realer or now. But I
got him, I got him on, so like I have
my you know, my like people, I'm I'm looking forward
and you were one of them. So thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (35:02):
Well, it was a no brainer. I'm thrilled to see
you and thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (35:05):
It's my pleasure. Glen. Okay, I can't wait to see
the show. Okay, Bye,
Hi, I'm Kristin Davis, and I want to know are
you a Charlotte? Hello everybody, and welcome to Are You
a Charlotte? I have a very special guest today. This
is Glenn Fleshler. He played school you guys. It's so
exciting to talk to Glenn. He was in episode one
(00:23):
oh six Secret Sex. This is the first season and
I haven't seen him in person in many, many, many years,
but I have seen his work so many times. And
he's currently starring with George Clooney on Broadway and good
Night and good Luck. So he took time on his
day off to talk to us, and here is the
lovely Glenn Fleschler. Glenn Fleshler's here. I'm so excited, thank
(00:49):
you for joining us.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
It's an honor and a trip.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
It is a trip, right.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
You know.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
What is so funny to me about you is that,
obviously we were together on the show Sex and the
City first season. Wait, what was the one called that
he's in the Secret Sex, Secret Sex? That's right, And
I mean that was really early in the show and
you had your whole costume on, you know, But ever
since then, you've been working so much and i'd been watching,
(01:17):
so they'd be like, that looks like that guy, and
I'd be watching, like that looks like that guy. But
like in my mind, you kind of were smool, you
know what I mean? The character right, So then and
you play like these heavies, like you play like so
many different like really like intense guys. Right, I'm like,
am I am I crazy? Or is that that guy
(01:39):
and that.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Terrible guy doing those terrible things.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
I know you do some many bad things, but those
are fun parts.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Right they are? They are?
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Yeah. Well, I'm so happy for all of your success,
and I'm so happy that we were your first job.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
My first job on my first TV show, I think, okay.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
In my first TV show, there you go. So help
me remind me of it. Tell me where you were
at and what it was like to get cast in
the show.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Well, I went to acting school at NYU and found
myself very in debt and trying to work my way
out of that by doing off Broadway shows in regional theater,
which is a fools errant.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Oh I did that too, so hard, Yeah, but I
loved it.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
But I really just you know, had no idea how
I was going to go for it, and I always
loved film and television, but everyone said, you know, you
have to go to la if you want to do that,
and I resisted that notion being a native New Yorker, right,
And there wasn't really too much. I mean, HBO is
just starting to do some things in New York, and
Law and Order had just kind of fired up their franchises,
(02:42):
and there were a few things and some indie films.
So the weird thing is, you know, it's weird to
say this to you because very few people have played
one character for something. I know it's you guys in Marishka.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
Totally, totally. We're a very lucky group.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
But as a character actor, you know, you kind of
want to do different things. That's sort of the fun
of doing it. But I've noticed in my career that
you get you go through these little mini runs where
it's like, oh, now I'm playing all these killers, or
now I'm playing these like tough attorneys, or And that
year that I met you, it was hasidic Jews. I
(03:26):
played one off Broadway, and I played.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
One in a movie with Renee Zellwegger.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Yes with Renee Yes.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
I saw that and I was like, there, he.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Is who just returned to my life a few days ago.
She came to see my show.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
Actually, ooh, that's so nice. She's so sweet.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
But yeah, I did this Miramax movie and but then
I had my own beard and my own hair. And
then that summer I shaved my head for the first time,
which I wore my head shaved for for several year.
But a director first asked me to shave my head
for a role in a play I was doing. And
I got the audition for Sex in the City and
(04:07):
I had it. Also was kind of seminole because I
realized through this job that I needed to get a
new agent, because the head of the agency, who never
really dealt with me very much, but she called me
with this audition. This is Sex in the City. You know,
it's this snooz show Darren Starr blah blah blah Sarah Jesca,
And I said, well, I played, you know, that other
(04:31):
hasidic Jewish character, but now my head shaved, and that
you should bring pictures from the movie. You'll give your
right arm. It's television, you know.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
And I just thought that's not the way I want
to approach my career.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Totally, totally and.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
I didn't do any of that. I simply went to
the audition thinking there's no I think I had a
goatee and a shaved head, and I thought, there's no
way in hell they're going to cast me. I think
it was Michael Patrick Ca, maybe just him. I don't remember.
I don't remember if I went in once or twice,
but I just, you know, did a very simple audition
and I got the role. I was so shocked. So
(05:10):
they built me all that stuff, the beer pas and
the wig. And you were the only person that I
did not meet in the makeup trailer. So when you
say that, I don't know. I actually was at the
I was in the cafeteria wherever you ate, right, and
(05:30):
I ate a meal, and I saw all of you
across the room, and I knew who all the other
three women were, and I knew that you had been
on Melrose Place, but I don't know your work, forgive me.
So I saw you. I think your hair was like.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
In oh yeah, sure, yeah, yeah, interesting.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
So I spied you from across the room and I said, Okay,
this is going to be fun.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Oh thank god. Oh I'm so glad.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
You know, I basically my first TV job was having
to make out with you and smoke cigarettes all night
and that's basically and lie like in bed afterwards.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
Yeah, and Williamsburg I was.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
Like, you know, I don't mind getting paid for that.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
On a side, Oh that's nice, sus enjoying it was good.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
I remember the look on your face because I had
I think I had talked to the other women and
they welcomed me to the show and all of that,
and of course the show hadn't aired, so nobody knew
what it was, right, And I remember walking on set
and you didn't see me until I was all done up,
you know, with all this hair, and I remember the
like fearful look in your acts, and I just walked
(06:35):
right up to you and said, look, I'm the love
of your life and I don't want to hear anything
about it or something like that.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
Well, good on you.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
We had a fun time, as I recall.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
We totally had a fun time. You were my absolute
favorite of the entire first season. I don't even really
remember the second season, so I'm just gonna go with
favorite of first and second season because you were very present.
I just remember you being very present, which is why
when I would see you later in your in your career,
I'd be like that guy. He was so good. He
was so good because, you know, in the beginning, because
(07:04):
no one knew, you know, what we were, what we
were doing, including kind of ourselves. Right in terms of Charlotte,
she was very underwritten in the beginning. We were just
kind of finding her. And I was just trying to,
you know, like pull it off, because I certainly was
not one of these Manhattan women in any way, like
kind of nervously, you know, just doing whatever they wrote
(07:26):
for me weeks a week, which was kind of wild,
like it would be all over the place, you know,
And I was supposed to be the prude. Yet I
was really quite adventurous, I would say. And I loved
the storyline because it was such a you know, it
was like it's little world unto itself, right. And we
went to Williamsburg, which back then was like I had
(07:47):
never been to Williamsburg. It wasn't cool and hip like
it is that.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
I always thought we were in Silver Cup.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
But oh we could have been. We could have been.
I mean, I remember how I walked down the streets.
I don't know, you probably haven't watched it. I just
recently rewatched it for the podcast. I walked down the street,
so maybe I was there without you, and probably so
if we were in the cafeteria that's like on one
floor of Silver Cup, and then our dressing rooms were
down on it.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
And I also remember I don't know if I came
another day to do a fitting or something, but I
remember at some point being at Silver Cup and they
were like, do you want to come in and say
hi to Michael, who was I think directing our episode,
And I said sure, and I walked onto set and
again hadn't done television, and I think there was a
kickboxing scene going on.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
Oh yeah, yeah, Miranda, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
A little set that they'd made, and it was so tiny,
and that blew my mind because I was like, I
bet on TV, this looks like a normal gym, but
it was like such a tiny little set that they'd
payed for this little scene. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
Well, also, we just didn't really have budget in the beginning,
you know, so like we must have I thought we
I thought that the loft that you know, your like
artist loft or whatever, I thought was actually in Williamsburg,
because I remember going to Williamsburg because there's a little
shop where walking down the street, and I remember being
there because at some point they found out that we
(09:05):
were filming there, that we've gotten a permit, and they
ran us off. They were basically like get out, you know,
because they didn't know a what we were and b
were named Sex and the City, which is a problem.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
That happened in the Rene Zellweger movie. Also, we had
a lot of trouble.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
Wow wow different times.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
The movie was but they were assuming and right there
was a lot of stuff in the newspapers about our
shoot and wow wow.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
So but I hadn't remembered. I do know that like
either we built the loft in Silver Cup or we
were in some other place in Manhattan, because sometimes we'd
like cross purpose because we didn't have enough money to
really get like locations.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
You know, for your Silver Cup.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
But I could totally be wrong, right, I mean, we
were there a lot, and we would build all kind
of crazy things like the boxing studio and yoga and
this and that. But yeah, it is funny to think
back on how kind of small and underwhelming our beginnings
words in production wise, you know, like funny considering where
(10:09):
we are now, Yes, which is a good thing. So
it was a positive experience, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
You know, it's funny to me. I was very tickled
to be asked, and I was excited to see you
again after all these years. Yeah, and I'm so just
impressed with where this is all gone for you. And
I listened to your some of your early podcasts, and
it was great for me to learn your journey a
little bit because I don't know the show very well.
So that's why I was sort of like those Sex
(10:36):
in the City and I'm coming on this podcast. But
the weird thing is that it has had such cast,
such a huge shadow. I don't know if that's the
right metaphor, but I had such a long reach in
my career and for years, particularly when I hadn't done
a lot of film and television. You know, I would
go around the country doing plays and sex and the
City would be in my bio and there wasn't much
(10:58):
else as far as film and television, and women would
come up to me. I mean, this is like all
over the country wherever I was working. Yeah, people would
want to talk about that, and they'd come up to
me and say things like, are you mister pussy is
the dil do guy? You know, like stuff, and I
love the show, but I was like, okay, I'm getting
a sense of like what maybe is going on on
(11:19):
this show?
Speaker 1 (11:19):
Oh my god, that's so embarrassing. I'm sorry, but that
is funny. Did you say no, I'm sure, I guess yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
As soon as you say it, they're like, oh my god,
I know the episode, Like people still to this day
like my hair my hairdresser in the Good Nighting to
look my show on Broadway. Yeah. Yeah, was like I'm
right away when I said I was going to do
this podcast, she said she knew the episode.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
Oh that's nice. That is literally why I'm doing the
podcast because also, as you say, who would have ever
thought in a million, one hundred years that we would
still be being discovered by new people, being discussed you know,
the old show, but also then continuing with them just
like that and have in the movies. None of it,
(12:01):
none of it would have been anything that any of
us would have dreamt up. So that's why I wanted
to do the podcast in a way to kind of
have a way to talk about it, to also talk
about you know, it is so interesting to think about
where we all were. You know, we all came from
all these different backgrounds and how we all came together.
You know, it is such a collaborative art form and
(12:22):
you don't always get to share these things. And I
wanted to kind of create a tapestry of, you know,
like who the people actually are and who they were
and what's happened to them since, and that the people
who stand out to me, which you're definitely one of it,
and also the people who stand out to the fans,
because I don't think that the fans connect your whole
career with that you're schmul You're saying most people don't.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
Every once in a while it comes up, though, It's
as though people are the one to discover it. You know.
He was on sections say, there have been magazine articles
and I actually had a director run up to me.
I was doing Spring Awakening on Broadway. Wow, and the
director came running and so excited and he said, you're
number thirty five of men in Sex and the City
in a weekly magazine or something. I was like, you know,
(13:05):
by that point, it had been so long and I
was such a little part of it, and I know
you had like a zillion great actors come through there,
and so.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
I was one of them, I was sure or one
of them. Glad, Let's talk about the play too, because
I'm so excited that you're on Broadway with George. I'm
so excited you guys are doing good Night and good Luck.
It's like fantastic. I can't wait to see it. How's
(13:36):
it going.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
It's going very well. It's been quite a ride. I
haven't been on stage for ten years.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
Wow, So that was really how you started?
Speaker 2 (13:45):
That was how I started. Yeah, it was like breathing
to me back then. And then things kind of shifted
in my life. I had a kid, I started doing
more film and television, which I always wanted to do,
but I also was a little kind of burned out
and looking for a change. And yeah, occasionally something would
cross MyD It's not like anyone was begging me to
come back. Occasionally something would cross my path. But I
(14:06):
was just like, it had to be the right thing,
because I knew George. You know, not always you know,
this might surprise you, but not always working with a
big celebrity it's not always the best thing.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
What did.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
And you know, I've been mostly lucky actually, But because
I knew George, I was like, well, he's going to
be great, and yeah, he loves to have a good time.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
And yeah, so smart and so smart.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
Funny and serious at the same time. Yeah, And I've
just been so in awe of the way he's handled
this whole thing, being a first time playwright, being a
first time actor on Broadway, leading man on Broadway. Yeah,
he's just handled it with such class and calm. And
you know, I would say to him, like, you know,
we're in tech for this very complicated, intense show. It's
(14:54):
okay if you want to like lose your shit once
in a while. And he just was so easy it all.
It was like as though we've been doing it his
whole life.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
So he is amazing. I worked with him first season
of Er, and I had a teeny teeny part right
where I had to audition i want to say, four times,
you know, like some crazy thing because they even though
it was the first season, it was very it had
that like magic about it, you know, and it was
just kind of going up in the ratings. And he
(15:22):
was so incredible and such a even then, he was
so incredibly smart about the business, you know, like like
like level headed and like you know, such a great mentor,
like he would just you know, he would ask you
questions and then he would say, oh, yeah, you're going
to be fine because you've got this quality, that quality,
that quality, and this is what you need to do, Like,
(15:43):
don't get hung up on the things that you don't
get because those weren't meant for you, and the things
that are meant for you. Just give your all and
you know, show up. And you know, he just had
such a great, like kind of a cheerleading quality even
back then.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
You know, yeah, he still liked that. And you know
one of the things that differentiates him is that he
did struggle for a while. He did. You know, he
loves to talk about all his failed pilots and all
his you know, his time on like Facts of Life
and Roseanne as like you know, cars and recurring characters
and and you know that kind of gave him perspective
on like how lucky he was to do we Are
(16:16):
and to have his film career, and then he just
works so hard to parlay that into so many incredible.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
Projects absolutely and produce so many beautiful things, and then
to be a Broadways.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
To discover talent. He loves casting, he loves all that.
That whole part of it you.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
Know, and he's just so good at it and it's
just so exciting to have him on Broadway. I think
it's a great thing. That kind of I felt like
when I started, and because you went to MU, I
don't know how you felt about it. They were kind
of like you had to kind of pick a lane,
right like I'm a theater actor. Oh, I'm a TV actor.
Oh I'm a film actor. And now it's all just.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
Well, I never I always kind of rejected that idea,
but you can feel the industry trying to do that
to you. Yeah, well you did this thing. That's why
I said, like it would kind of go on threes
for me, like three has jews, so I'd have to say, like, Okay,
I need to pivot, you know what I mean. You
have to know where your bread is buttered in a way.
We have to work as actors, but also just in
(17:10):
the back of your mind to think, like, well, what's
different than the last thing I did? Yeah, And you know,
I'm right now coming off a run of like four
independent films since the strikes and all the things that
were going on, and it was good and I like
indie films, yeah, and they were all different and whatever,
but I kind of felt like, Okay, I need something
else to happen, and then this just kind of came along.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
And it was wonderful. How amazing. I mean, yes, I
am jealous of that in a way because obviously we
have had this one thing that has just like, you know,
lived and lived and lived. And the wonderful thing about
it is that, hey, luckily I always liked Charlotte, but
b we've had this incredible relationship with Michael Patrick where
he continues to write in ways that are challenging and deeper,
(17:54):
and you know, to have one character and then get
to go through so many changes and and you know,
phases in parts of her life, like it's very rare.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
Well, that's why it's lasted, because you haven't just rested
on your laurels. You know, the fact that you've allowed
those characters to grow and that Michael has. Yeah, it's
part of the secret of your longevity.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
I'm sure, I agree, absolutely, And I think it's also
because if we weren't still interested, it wouldn't be interesting
to watch, right, Like, you have to be invested, you know,
in what you're doing and feel like there is something
exciting and new and I always feel that way. But
I mean again, it is kind of weird because when
you're starting, you're thinking, like I always thought, I mean,
(18:36):
Broadway is my highest height of height that could happen, right,
And so in the meantime you're doing regional theater. And
I also had an epipty. I think I was in Cincinnati,
where George is from, doing a play at the They
have like a theater up on a hail at a park.
It's really pretty. I was doing I think I was
doing much to do about nothing, and I was like,
(18:58):
I'm making like eight hundred and forty a week and
I can't have a dog, you know, because like I'm
traveling the country, Like this is not sustainable. What do
you how how do people do this? Like wow, it's hard,
you know. So that that was a bit of a
shock because I thought, oh, yeah, that would be amazing
to be a journeyman, you know, regional theater actor. I
(19:20):
thought that would be great. Then I got there and
I was like, hmmm, hard, hard, really hard, it's hard.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
You know. Yeah, that's that was kind of a model.
It's I don't know if people can sustain that anymore.
I think back in the day in that sort of
era before we came up, there were people who just
could have like a regional theater career, and there were
also like more companies across the country, you know that
would foster actors' careers. So it got harder to do.
(19:47):
But at one time I was like, Yeah, this is
romantic and it's great and when you're young, you know,
it seems really cool. And plus I needed a place
to sleep, so you know, i'd live in some housing,
you know, in some city, you know, a couple of
months at a time, and it would tiede me over,
you know, until my next sub letter couch that I
was sleeping on or whatever.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
Wow, amazing. But then so in terms of Broadway itself,
like I eventually got to Broadway with James Earl Jones,
which was of course a dream and a miracle, and
you know, still just like a like almost like I
dreamt the whole thing. It's a fantasy. It was so
incredible just to go to the theater every day, you
know and think like I'm in this show on Broadway,
(20:27):
Like what the heck? Like do you feel that way?
How do you feel?
Speaker 2 (20:30):
You know, I'm very grizzled. I got took me a
very long time to get to Broadway. It like you,
it was a big goal for me. It was a
big deal. I grew up in New York going to
see Broadway shows, so it was a big deal to me.
But the difference from those like regional theater off Broadway
days was it's a very commercial venture. Yeah, kind of
(20:54):
dig their heels in, We're going to run this show
for a long time, and like this is my territory.
It's like a different feeling. I had a lot of
great experiences, but I ended up cranking out six Broadway
shows in five years.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
And by the end of that, and I wanted the
experience of like a long run, because you know, when
you do a regional show, you know it's a couple
months and then you're done. And usually I wanted to
be done. But I would wonder about the people who
did long runs on Broadway and these kind of legendary
people who played one part for a long time, like
how do you do that? And how do you keep
it alive for that long? And I wanted to have
that experience and I did, and then I just realized, oh,
(21:29):
it makes me completely crazy, Like I wanted to keep
it fresh and you know, you know, people are paying
a lot of money, and you know, I take that
all very seriously, but it kind of it can kind
of make you crazy.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
Oh definitely. It's so hard. It's so incredibly hard to
do one show eight times a week. One show eight
times a week is a fascinating challenge. I mean, Sex
and the City and just like that is a different challenge,
right because you're playing the same character, but you're in
different situations. You know, different things are happening, and sometimes
it's funny and sometimes it's serious. But when you're doing
(22:02):
the same exact story night after night after night, oh wow,
it was like fascinating. I've never had a long run
either though, but just doing eight shows a week is
just a whole thing.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
It is, it's a thing. You know, this has been amazing,
but it has been an incredible amount of work, just
a lot of mental It's like the most kind of
mentally challenging, one of them most interesting challenging things I've done,
because it's you know, and also that it's that thing.
I don't know if you've had this opportunity to like
play a real life person, real person.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
I have it's so stressful.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
Well you want to honor that life, you know, and
so it also comes with that, and we're all playing
real people.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
Yeah, and you're playing great people, which is super fascinating.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
Yeah, but you know, complicated and yeah, it's a really
amazing moment in time, moment in history. So it's taken
a lot. Plus we have, you know, multimedia things going on.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
I heard, I read, I read in some of the
glowing reviews.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
But it's going really well and people love it. I
think people are kind of hungry for this kind of
thing right now, to hear the language that Edward R.
Murrow spoke in the fifties and speaking truth to power
and people just kind of like being at their best
doing great things. And you know, and a lot of
time people were it was earlier in their careers. Not Murrow,
but a lot of the other characters you're seeing them.
(23:18):
You know, they went on to be legendary news people,
but at this point they didn't know if they were
going to make it to next week. You know.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
That's amazing. Yeah, that's amazing, and what an incredible thing
to be doing right now in our world.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
Yeah, it feels good. It's a lot of time where
it feels like, you know, you can feel very helpless.
You know, it can feel like, well, yeah, what can
I do? This just feels like to go to work
and be like, Okay, this is why I'm an actor
and this is what I'm doing.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
Yeah, you don't feel it very often. Really landing with
people so great, it's super exciting. Can I just tell
you a little anecdote about James Earl Jones?
Speaker 2 (23:53):
Yeah, what was the show that you've give it?
Speaker 1 (23:55):
It was The Best Man, which we used to do
like every election time there would be a version of
the Best Man.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
Was that with Michael Wilson.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
Yeah, I love Michael Wilson so much, so much.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
I didn't remember that you did that.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
I shouldn't say, yes I did. And the weirdest thing
about it was that so I replaced Oh, I'm not
going to remember her name, Carrie something I replaced. I
was like the second cast. So it was it was
the most incredible cast all the way around. But Michael
Wilson had said to me, we tried to get you
in the beginning. I mean I was like, well, uh,
I never heard that. What what like that's like your
(24:31):
worst nightmare as an actor, right, like this, someone tried
to get you in a Broadway show, and somehow your
agents didn't feel like telling you. It was one of
those moments where I do think there was an agency's change.
You do have those times.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
I've knowd that a couple of times, not often, but
once in a while. I tried to get this. Did
you ever hear about this?
Speaker 1 (24:46):
And I know you're like, how could this happen? Like
like this is something that of course I would have
moved heaven and Earth to do, Like with James Earl Jones,
I'm sorry, also an incredible rest of the cast, but
like James Earl Joe Jones, I mean, come on. So anyway,
I replaced with John Stamos. We came in to replace
Eric McCormack and Carrie Something's very nice, and it was
(25:11):
John Learriquette, you know, It's like everyone was amazing. Kennis Bergen,
I mean it was. It was so incredible, So I
would I was. I came on kind of late in
the first act, and I had a lot of time
to kill and I was so incredibly nervous to be
on the stage with these people, and I'd never been
on Broadway. I'd grown up doing theater. I'd done theater
a Rutgers, I'd gone to their BFA program, but I
(25:33):
was rusty, you know. I was like, ah, so scared.
And John was like the best co star in the world,
but he had to go on right, So I was
just by myself and I would go downstairs because they
had built a dressing room for James Earl Jones that
was on the same floor as the stage so that
he didn't have to go up and down the stairs,
and I would just go down there to hang out
with him, because he would just hang He loved people.
(25:55):
He loved to talk to everybody, so you could like
stop in his dressing room and talk to him, or
like sit backstage and talk to him or watch him
and he would change up stuff every night. It was incredible.
It is amazing when you get to meet people who
obviously you've admired your whole life, and you know, watch
(26:15):
their work and whatnot, and to be around them and
then to see whatever way because there's so many different
ways to make it work.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
You know. Yeah, I mean I that was my last
experience really of being on stage. I became the sort
of go to person that could do these littler parts
or a little understudy roles and be on stage with
Meryl Streep or al Pacino or walk in. And so
I had this run. I mean, I went to London
and did at play with Maggie Smith. It was all
(26:43):
kind of in a row. So I was like, what's
happening after? Like, no one knew who the hell I
was for years. You know, It's suddenly I was having
these opportunities. But I also I felt like if I
had stayed just doing theater, then I would have been
like understudy to the stars or something, you know not.
And so I knew that there was were out there
for me to do it. I wanted the challenge of
(27:03):
you know, I felt like film and television even though
I was doing it here and there along the way.
I just in fact, I remember about you, about watching
you work because it was my first TV gig, and
I was a little, of course nervous about it and
didn't know that didn't know the technique or you know.
I don't know if I still do, but I definitely
at that time didn't know, you know. And I remember
(27:26):
watching you and thinking like, oh, she's done a lot.
I don't know if I thought you were on a
soap or had done. I knew you had done some stuff,
but it was just like your comfort level on camera.
Like that really struck me because I was like, oh,
she's just so easy and for me, I had these
like few lines and this little part, but it's like,
you know, becomes so important, you know, which makes it hard.
(27:47):
Those little parts are really hard.
Speaker 3 (27:55):
Hey everyone, I'm Jenna bush Haager from The Today Show
and I'm excited to share my podcast Book with Jenna.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
It is back for season two.
Speaker 3 (28:03):
Each week's celebrities, experts, friends, and authors will share candid
stories with me about their lives and new projects. Guest
like Rebecca Yarros, Kristin Hannah, I Go Wodem and more.
Like a good book, you'll leave feeling inspired and entertained.
Join me for my podcast Open Book with Jenna. To
start listening, just search Open Book with Jenna wherever you
(28:23):
get your podcasts.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
That's what struck me, and I'm glad to hear you
say that, because, like I said, my memory of myself
first season was that I was kind of a mess,
or that I felt inside like a mess. You know.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
Of course that was interesting for me to hear you
say that on some of the other pods you did,
because I was like, oh, to me, you were just like,
oh the season pro from LA and like, you know,
just really easy, and I was just like, ugh, I
need some of that.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
Well, actually, well this is what I felt about you.
And it must have been either and because I barely remember,
like there's that I don't remember, like like I should
have come talk to you in the cafeteria or whatever.
Like I don't know what was going on with me
that I wasn't. I was probably we're probably running lines
or so, who knows, but you know what struck me
Compared to we did have this whole kind of run
(29:13):
of these young men who came on the show right
first season, second season before the show really hit, and
they were in what we think was going on, which
we don't know, but we would discuss it when they
weren't there. It was weird because the men were the
girlfriend parts right like in a way that they weren't
really used to being and they seemed perplexed about how
(29:35):
to do that, you know, whereas all of us very
well versed in how to do that because that was
basically what you got to do in TV and film
back then. You know what I mean, unless you were
Meryl Street.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
That's what I heard from all my female friends, my
actress friends. It's like it's another girlfriend, part yeah wife, you.
Speaker 1 (29:53):
Know exactly exactly, And they're very hard in a certain
way because you kind of have to figure the guy
out and what they want and.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
How to make me a person. You want to be
a person, not.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
You want to be whole absolutely, And what I remember
about you, and maybe I knew about your theater record
or maybe I didn't, I kind of just felt like
you were this schmoolt like for whatever reason, and I
just remember you being so present, and that's really what
you want. That's really the basic gist of everything that
you want in a in a especially in a romantic thing,
(30:24):
because you want to have it, have some life, and
it can't even even with the incredible writing that we had,
which first season, we're still finding ourselves, but like they
wrote really well, but if you're not present with the
other person, you're just doing you're having to do so
much more work, you know. And I remember you just
being a breath of fresh air in that regard, which
is why I always had such a fond, fond memory
(30:46):
of like, oh, that was a great storyline.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
Thank god, I'm amazing you even remember it after all that.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
Yeah, I mean it stood out. It really stood out.
There's a lot of things about first season.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
To me, that's a tribute to you because I just
feel like you made me so after that initial thing
of that look in.
Speaker 1 (31:00):
Your eyes seeing me, I'm sorry, that's okay.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
I think you were right. I would have sure.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
I was a little like, I was like, Wow, they
really went for it, and I think that's what I thought,
because that's what I thought when I rewatched it. I
was like, Wow, I forgot that they really really went
for it.
Speaker 2 (31:15):
Wow, right, because nobody was doing that on TV before
your show. I don't think you know that you would
see something like that and that's right, and you know
there were laughs, but it was like you're also trying
to play it for real kind of And in fact,
I remember I was think I was at a Shakespeare
festival that summer when the show aired, and I was like,
(31:35):
you know, I don't know what I thought about the
show and like how that was going to come off
and anything. I was a little worried to watch it,
but I get it. But this friend of mine who
was in the cast was like, we're going to gather
everybody and we're going to watch this show. And so
we watched it like late at night. Somebody recorded it
after a performance, I think, and we're sitting in this
(31:57):
like housing were in all watching it and there's like
a moment I'm like eyeballing you, and then I like
flick a cigarette and the whole room erupted. I remember
that response. I was like, oh, I guess this works.
Like I had no idea.
Speaker 1 (32:09):
That was amazing.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
I know that it was anything. I knew that it
was good working with you, but beyond that, I had
no idea how it would come across. So it was
kind of funny to do it with a room full
of people my first thing and just have people like
go crazy.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
You know, that's amazing. I love that. I mean that
is the one thing about television that's sometimes a bummer
is that you don't get to see the audience reaction,
you know, Like it's just such a joy when because
we would usually premiere the first two episodes like with
a group, and it's such a joy because when you're
working and you watch yourself by yourself, you're always critical,
you're always going to have some critical whatevers, but if
(32:44):
you can watch everyone else respond, it takes that away
and you can Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
I've been lucky enough to have a few shows where,
you know, you got to go to a big premiere
or something and they'd show the first episode or two
and you get to do that with a theater full
of people. That is great.
Speaker 1 (32:57):
It is great. And that's the great thing about theater two.
It's just that immediate. You're just immediately in sancly, what's happening.
I know it. Well, what a joy, what a joy
you are And I'm going to come see that show
and I can't wait. And I wish you all the
success in the world, and thank you for coming on
the podcast.
Speaker 2 (33:15):
It's really been a privilege and to you all, I know.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
And that's also what I love about acting, right, Like
you get to meet so many different people and then
you don't know if you'll see them again, or if
you won't, or if you'll get to see their work,
and like, it's just been such a joy over the
years to be like, oh my god, that's that guy there.
He is killing people.
Speaker 2 (33:35):
Yeah. Yeah, one theater director I had said, we're friends
of the heart, you know, because we don't see each other.
We don't know I will see each other if well. But
you know, you see the person's work and you go, oh,
that's my person. I know.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
That's so true. That's so true, and you feel connected,
you are connected. That's a good point. I like that.
I like that very much. Well, Friend of the Heart,
go and have a good show. Oh you don't have
a show tonight, have a good week of shows.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
I have a day off, have a day off.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
Thank you for talking to me on your day off.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
It's been such a such a pleasure, and it's great
to see you. And congratulations on everything and on this podcast,
which I think is so awesome. You're really you're really
working very hard.
Speaker 1 (34:11):
I can I am working very hard make it what
I wanted to be. You know, it's an ongoing process.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
Material And because you had so many great actors on
the show over the years, you know, I know from
the New York theater side of things, like all the
kind of cool people you've had coming through, I think
it would be a blast.
Speaker 1 (34:29):
Yeah, that's the joy, you know of working in New
York and getting to have those people. And I've just
been really picky about who I've had on, but you
have been on my list and thank you, thank you
for coming through because there are people where people talk
about them like you. And also Andrea book Telly who
played the modelizer, the model guy, the Bone they called
him in the first or second episode. No one has
(34:51):
found him for years. I mean, he's not like you,
he's not a he's a realer or now. But I
got him, I got him on, so like I have
my you know, my like people, I'm I'm looking forward
and you were one of them. So thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (35:02):
Well, it was a no brainer. I'm thrilled to see
you and thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (35:05):
It's my pleasure. Glen. Okay, I can't wait to see
the show. Okay, Bye,
Host
Kristin Davis
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