May 22, 2025 • 47 mins
Karoline built her life around her husband's career as a Colorado Springs police officer. The family was proud of his service, until they learned that the only person he was serving was himself.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey guys. Before we dive into the episode, we have
exciting news. Betrayal is coming to substack, which is an
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where we dive deeper into the stories you hear on
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to exclusive content, engage with me and subjects, as well
(00:23):
as connect with others who have experienced betrayal. Just head
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go to substack dot com, search beyond Betrayal and hit subscribe.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
I'm ashamed to admit I love you. That's what makes
us hurt so bad is because I care so much
about you. My family is the most important thing in
the world to me, and it still is, but now
there's just one last number of it. I cared about
you more than anything. I looked up to you. You
are an inspiration to me. You ruin my life, ruin
(01:05):
my eighty sister's life, and you ruin my beautiful mother's life.
That's what hurts the most is because I genuinely cared
so much about you.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
I'm Andrea Gunning and this is Betrayal Season four, Episode one,
one of the good ones. Hi everyone, I'm excited to
be back for season four of Betrayal. It's just incredible
how much this community has grown, and I wanted to
take a moment to give you my most heartfelt thank
(01:51):
you for supporting the series as well as our weekly series.
No matter how you found Betrayal, I'm really happy you're
here now. For the next several weeks, we will be
focusing on one story, a story that we learned about
only because a woman named Caroline and her daughter learned
about us. By the way, some names have been changed
(02:13):
to protect privacy.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
My name is Nicole. My mom was driving me up
to school. It was my first semester of college, so
me driving up my freshman year. It's an eight hour drive.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Nicole's mom, Caroline Brega, was the driver.
Speaker 4 (02:34):
I had said, you know, I'm tired of listening to
different music. My daughter found the podcast and so she's like, oh,
leave this, this is rated like super high. Let's listen
to this, And so I said okay. And so after
we started listening, when we were both just locked in,
and after just a couple episodes, I was fighting back
(02:56):
tears and I said nothing to her and she said
nothing to me, and then finally, you know, she broke
the ice and she looked at me and she said,
you know, mommy, this could be our family. I said,
I was thinking the same thing. I was thinking the
same thing.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
That thought stuck with Caroline enough to motivate her to
send us an email, and before we knew it, my producer,
Carrie and I found ourselves in Colorado Springs, where we
met Caroline Brega at her home. Caroline is a mother
of two who works in law enforcement. Her house is beautiful,
with vaulted ceilings in a cozy suburb of the Springs.
(03:36):
If one thing stuck out to me, this was a
forever home. She was warm, welcoming, and not alone. Little
did we know we were guests of a special night
Caroline does with the people closest to her. It's called
supper club, and they do it every Sunday night. They
drink wine, crack jokes, and unwine before the start of
(04:00):
another week. These friends never miss a supper club.
Speaker 5 (04:04):
Do you want another one of these?
Speaker 6 (04:07):
You mean?
Speaker 7 (04:07):
Okay, okay?
Speaker 1 (04:09):
We were complete strangers and the night could not have
felt more comfortable.
Speaker 5 (04:15):
So who wish us?
Speaker 3 (04:17):
Well?
Speaker 5 (04:17):
Fuck the rest they can go the hill.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
After dinner, Caroline gave us a tour of the dream
home she built with her husband of over twenty years.
She showed us trophies and ribbons from her kids' sports careers.
There were instruments in elementary school art projects, and there
were family photos smiling at us in frames all over
the house. This was a happy home of a happy family.
(04:41):
But when we looked a little closer, we realized that
many of the photos weren't of Caroline's family at all.
They were actually stock photos, the kind you get when
you buy a frame at the store. It became overwhelmingly
clear Caroline had deleted parts of her life. Actually just
(05:01):
one part of her life, the most painful one. Caroline
had removed all traces of her husband, her now ex husband,
Joel Kern.
Speaker 8 (05:13):
Would you please state your full name with the spelling
for the record.
Speaker 7 (05:16):
Joel Kern, k E or Inn and JOEO.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Joel was a decorated member of the Colorado Springs Police Department.
He had taken an oath to protect and serve the community.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
How long have you.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
Been employed by CSPD?
Speaker 7 (05:30):
Twenty five years?
Speaker 1 (05:31):
But on April eleventh, twenty twenty two, Caroline discovered that
the only person Joel was serving was himself.
Speaker 4 (05:39):
I'm at work and I see a notification on my phone.
It's our house cameras, and I look and I see
it's Joel and he's dragging up the trash cans.
Speaker 8 (05:50):
Will you be answering all of our questions concerning this
matter truthfully today?
Speaker 7 (05:53):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (05:54):
And so I just sent him a quick text and
I said, hey, what are you doing home so early?
Speaker 5 (06:00):
And he didn't respond, tell us.
Speaker 4 (06:02):
Why do you think those allegations against you were brought forward?
And then I sent him another text, Joel, is everything okay?
I see like the three little dots?
Speaker 8 (06:13):
I'll ask you specifically, have you ever uploaded whatsapped on.
Speaker 4 (06:16):
Your work cell phone number? And he responded back, No,
everything's not okay. I fucked up the worst I've ever
fucked up in my life. You're going to want to
divorce me.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
Season four is about truth. It's the foundation upon which
trust is built. So what happens when someone manipulates the truth?
What happens when a person or an institution believes that
they are above the truth. For Caroline, her husband's lies
completely undermined her sense of reality. It's been a hard
(06:51):
few years for Caroline and her family. Before we sat
down with her, she looked to her daughter for strength.
Speaker 4 (06:59):
She was very sweet and said, you are brilliant, resilient
and beautiful, and you deserve to tell the truth of
the story.
Speaker 5 (07:09):
You deserve to let people know what we went through.
And that's all the permission I needed.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
Nicole always felt a deep kinship with her father, Joel Kern.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
I really idolized my dad. I thought we had similar personalities.
We had the same humor, same kind of confrontational style.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
And for Joel, it wasn't just a job, it was
part of his identity. During Nicole's childhood, he rose up
the ranks in the Colorado Springs Police Department, and for
most of her life he worked unusual hours.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
My dad did work nights for the majority of my life,
and so most of the time I would only see him,
like during dinnertime. I was kind of proud of that
in a way, because he was serving our community, and
I was really happy to see him and all of
(08:08):
his cop friends, and like spending most birthdays at the
substation and all that.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Substation was a new word for me. It's another word
for precinct. Caroline made sure not to skip celebrations just
because Joel worked at night. She brought the kids over
and they celebrated birthdays and holidays at the substation, so
Joel wouldn't miss out and the kids would have their
dad at milestone events.
Speaker 3 (08:37):
I did maybe idolize them more than my mom, just
because my mom was constant throughout my life. I wanted
his connection just because he wasn't really there for a
lot of the daily events with my brother and I.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
Joel's career was always the family's priority. When he had
to miss the kids sports, g or recitals, it was
for good reason. Their dad was on the side of
justice integrity, and this didn't happen by accident. Caroline and
Joel designed their life around his career. In fact, the
day she first laid eyes on Joel, he was in uniform.
(09:17):
It was nineteen ninety eight and Caroline was fresh out
of college starting her first full time job as a
domestic violence advocate.
Speaker 4 (09:25):
I was told from my employers that one of the
things that would be required of me as a component
of my training for the position would be to complete
a ROD Along with the Colorado Springs Police Department So
I showed up at the substation and I'm all of
twenty two years old, freshly graduated, just celebrated my birthday,
(09:45):
and I meet this police officer and his name was Troy.
Speaker 5 (09:50):
The first part of what we were going to do for.
Speaker 4 (09:51):
The evening is that we would sit in the lineup
room and I would be able to listen to a
police lineup.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
When Caroline says lineup, she he was talking about the
briefing officers received at the start of their shift. It's
when this sergeant gives out updates and assignments.
Speaker 4 (10:07):
As wind up's getting ready to begin, this person walks in.
He's very tall, I'm very handsome, and just looks kind
of discombobulated.
Speaker 5 (10:15):
He's carrying a.
Speaker 4 (10:16):
Radar gun and a clipboard while still trying to balance
this coffee mug. And everyone's kind of giggling, and the
police sergeant said, well, I guess we can start lineup.
When Joel finds his seat, everyone and I'm staring at him,
and I admit I.
Speaker 5 (10:32):
Was just awestrug.
Speaker 4 (10:34):
He was handsome and young, and when he sat down,
I could see him turning back around and staring at me,
and you know, I get flushed.
Speaker 5 (10:43):
And I look away.
Speaker 4 (10:45):
But the times when I would look over and we
caught eyes, there's no other way to put it.
Speaker 5 (10:50):
It was electrifying.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
There was something happening between them. Caroline didn't know it then,
but that night altered the trajectory of her life. And
since we're going to be talking a lot about the
Colorado Springs Police Department, I'll referred to it as the
CSPD from now on.
Speaker 4 (11:11):
And then as lineup finished, Troy came back to me
and he said, Okay, are you ready to get going?
And before we were leaving the lineup room, Joel came
kind of hurriedly over to us and he said, Troy,
don't forget I'm your partner tonight.
Speaker 5 (11:29):
And Troy just kind of.
Speaker 4 (11:30):
Let out this sigh, and then he looked at me
and he said, and this is Joel clearly trying to
insert himself, to get himself introduced to you, Joel, this
is Caroline.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
The ride along was routine, but it was a long night.
When they returned to the substation, Caroline was ready to
get home.
Speaker 4 (11:50):
And as I'm approaching my car, Joel kind of almost
running out comes out to me. It was like, Hey,
I just wanted to say to you. I know that
you're new in town, so I wanted to give you
my business card and let you know that if you
ever needed to be showed around town, or if you
wanted a tour of the city, let me know. And
(12:11):
I said, I don't need to be shown around this town.
I grew up here, so I have no need for
a tour guide.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
Caroline was playing it cool, but he gave her his
number anyway, and.
Speaker 4 (12:24):
I just took the business card and got in my car.
I drove home that night and my mom was waiting
up for me. She was like, Oh, I'm just so
relieved your home safely.
Speaker 5 (12:34):
I'd been waiting up.
Speaker 4 (12:35):
I couldn't sleep. How was the evening? And the first
words out of my mouth before anything were I met
the man I'm going to marry. And my mom sat
there in silence, and then she stared at me, and
her next response was, Jesus Christ, that better not be
a cop, and I just started laughing. I went to
(12:56):
bed and I fell asleep for a couple hours. And
when I woke up, I rolled over and I had
Joel's business card on my nightstands and I picked up
the phone. This is nineteen ninety eight. I used my parents' landline,
called his work and I left a voice smell for him.
(13:18):
I said, hey, it's Caroline. I don't need a tour guide,
but if you ever want to get together sometime, let
me know. And within twenty or thirty minutes, my parents'
house line ring and after I said hello, the first
words out of his mouth were, what took you so
long to call me?
Speaker 1 (13:56):
Joel wanted to see her that night, but she had plans.
It was Caroline's turn to cook Sunday dinner for her family.
To her surprise, he was down to show up at
her parents and bravely dine with her mom, dad, and
two older sisters.
Speaker 4 (14:12):
He was a trooper with it. I mean, he was
very coldly greeted by my parents. My sisters were incredibly
amused by the fact that I had just met this
person on a ride along and I was inviting him
over for Sunday dinner, and so you know, they were
giddy and giggly about it.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
Joel and Caroline were skipping a lot of steps. This
would typically be day ten, not date one, but it
felt right having Joel there beside her, and from that
moment on.
Speaker 4 (14:44):
We became inseparable, and I should clarify, I mean inseparable
as we could be. With regards to his schedule. He
worked four days on and had three days off, and
the four days that he w worked on were ten
hour shifts at night.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
But when they were together, it was like the beginning
all over again. Caroline and Joel made the most of
the gorgeous landscape in Colorado.
Speaker 4 (15:12):
We enjoyed driving up to see the leaves when they changed,
and going on different hikes, and driving through different passes
and going to different mountain towns. We were both young,
and you know you're in love and attracted to each other.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
They had met early in the summer of nineteen ninety eight,
and in the fall, Caroline had planned to go to
graduate school a few hours away in Boulder, but Joel
wasn't about to let her get away.
Speaker 4 (15:43):
When it came time for me to go to graduate school,
Joel had said to me, my career is established, and
you have so many connections here in your hometown. Why
don't you just stay. And we had a little bit
of a negotiation where I said, well, I'm not going
to just Smith's graduate school. This is something that I
like to stay and pursue all enroll at the local university.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
Here here's Caroline's best friend, Debra.
Speaker 9 (16:11):
We started hanging out more because we played on a
recreational volleyball league together and Joel was a part of that.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
Debra is, as Carolyne says her, ride or Die. They
met back in their twenties at work, and they even
have a nickname for each other.
Speaker 5 (16:29):
It's Sally.
Speaker 9 (16:30):
We're like, if we ever go to jail, we'd be
cell mates, our little partners in crime, and so we
call each other Sally.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
Deborah knew Joel from the beginning of their relationship.
Speaker 5 (16:44):
You know, they were.
Speaker 9 (16:45):
Always great together. I looked up to them as a couple.
She was very attendant to him. He seemed attentative to her.
He was great. There was like two different Jewels. There
was work mode Joel, who was very serious took his
job seriously, and then there was Joel outside of work
(17:05):
that loved to hang out, loved to, you know, have
a drink here and there, and we just always had
a good time.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
Caroline loved him, her friends and family had grown to
love him. They were dating for a little over two years.
Speaker 4 (17:24):
When we were getting ready to go out somewhere. I
can't even remember where what we're going to do. And
I went upstairs to you know, get my shoes on
or get a coat or whatever. And I turned around
and there he was with a ring. And that's how
we got engaged.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
The engagement was simple, but planning the wedding wouldn't be.
Caroline was Catholic but Joel wasn't. That meant they couldn't
get married in her church. But then Joel did something
extraordinary that surprised Caroline.
Speaker 5 (17:59):
Joel said, I'll convert for you. I just thought, oh
my god, thank you.
Speaker 4 (18:04):
It just drew us closer together and just made me
feel that much more loved and special that he was
willing to do that.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
Once Joel was confirmed as part of the Catholic Church,
he and Caroline prepared for the sacrament of marriage.
Speaker 4 (18:20):
We needed to do premarital counseling with our priest. The
counseling was actually something that was extremely relevant and beneficial.
I mean, there was a litany of discussions that were had,
and one of the discussions surrounded in fidelity, and so
(18:40):
I told him, I just want you to know that
I will work through and do anything for you.
Speaker 5 (18:47):
But I had two rules.
Speaker 4 (18:49):
Don't ever lay a hand on me, and don't ever
cheat on me anything else. I commit and promise to
you I will work through. And he said I agree,
and we had a mass of one hundred and fifty
people on a Friday evening.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
Three years after they met, on July twenty seventh, two
thousand and one, Caroline and Joel got married.
Speaker 4 (19:17):
He invited a childhood friend to do a reading, and
she was excited to be part of the ceremony.
Speaker 5 (19:24):
Love is patient and kind. Love does not envy or boast.
It is not arrogant or rude. And it was just
so beautiful, just so beautiful.
Speaker 4 (19:36):
Love bears all things, believes, all things hopes, all things endures,
all things.
Speaker 5 (19:44):
Love never ends.
Speaker 4 (19:48):
So around June of two thousand and two, I was
at Target one day. I was in the book area
and wanted to get a nice journal, and I passed
by this book What to Expect when You're Expecting, and
it was just kind of this moment of when was
(20:10):
the last time I got my period? And I started
looking at the book and I was giggling to myself
and I thought I should probably take a test.
Speaker 5 (20:20):
And I was pregnant.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
She took the test while Joel was sleeping, but she
wanted to share the news with him right away.
Speaker 4 (20:28):
He sat straight up in bed, stared at me for
a second, and then he said, this is what you want,
right And I said I do what about you? And
he said, yes, of course, of course I want to
be a dad.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
Once the shock were off, they were both really looking
forward to having a baby.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
You know.
Speaker 4 (20:51):
We told our parents right away and everyone was just
so excited for us.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
Caroline threw herself into preparing for motherhood. Joel began to
focus on providing for his growing family.
Speaker 4 (21:04):
It was important for him at this point to advance
his career because he wanted to be able to provide
the best he could for me and our child and
if we had other children.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
During her pregnancy, the couple made an agreement that Joel's
career as a cop would be the centerpiece of their life.
It was a sacrifice for the betterment of their family
and for the entire community.
Speaker 4 (21:30):
There were occasions where his work impeded some factors with
me being pregnant. He missed doctor's appointments and would call
and say, I can't make it because I'm at work.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
Still, Caroline experienced some lonely days, but the couple was
working for the future.
Speaker 4 (21:50):
Our son was born and a thankfully healthy, beautiful baby boy.
Joel stayed home just a couple days, and I went
right back to work and was very that he wanted
to focus on his career and making sure that he
showed that he was someone who was worthy of being promoted,
especially now that we had a child.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
As for Caroline's career, it was more flexible. She isn't
an officer herself. She asked us not to disclose her
exact job title. We'll just say she works in the
justice system and collaborates with law enforcement. So Caroline had
the utmost respect for the work her husband did.
Speaker 4 (22:30):
I knew what I was getting into. I knew when
I married a cop that I was going to be
alone a night. That we agreed he would have the
ability to make more money and that I would be
the person who would support it because I had a
more flexible schedule than him.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
Two years after their son was born, Caroline and Joel
welcomed a baby girl.
Speaker 5 (22:50):
Our daughter was born in two thousand and.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
Five, and then they saw their sacrifices start to pay off.
Speaker 4 (22:57):
Eleven days after our daughter was born, Joel was promoted
to the rank of sergeant. Being a midnight sergeant was
his focus for many, many years. We would have dinner
together as a family, and then he would leave for
work by eight pm, and then.
Speaker 5 (23:13):
I was home with the kids at night.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
Despite the difficult hours, Joel embraced fatherhood. As the kids grew,
Joel and Caroline brought them along for all their outdoor adventures.
They even got an r V.
Speaker 4 (23:26):
We would go on biking trips together, and hiking trips
together and camping trips together. You could see he just
enjoyed being around the kids and watching them live these
moments and experiences through their lens.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
From those early days, Joel encouraged their son to get
involved in his community. Here's their son.
Speaker 6 (23:50):
He was a leader all throughout my boy scout career
until I became an Eagle Scout.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
They even traveled to Florida for a scouting trip.
Speaker 6 (24:00):
Going Key to Key and snarkling on shipwrecks and seeing
all the sharks and the sea wildlife was probably the
most memorable.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
And Joel found ways to bond with their daughter, Nicole.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
I'm really big into lacrosse. I've been playing lacrosse my
whole life. He was the one that always took me
to my lacrosse games, my lacrosse practices.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
Both kids enjoyed the benefits of their dad being a
cop because they had access to exciting experiences, getting.
Speaker 6 (24:35):
To see the jail cells, or the armory or the
police motorcycles.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
Then there was Joel's police car.
Speaker 6 (24:43):
Getting to play with the sirens and then getting older,
being able to go on police ride alongs and all that.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
The car was a symbol of their dad's power and authority,
of his values his service. Despite Joel working nights, their
family thrived. Both kids were passionate about sports and became
competitive athletes, and they were focused, hard working students.
Speaker 4 (25:12):
Things just really felt like they were on this great trajectory.
Speaker 6 (25:16):
The saying was that the current family doesn't accept mediocrity,
which is half joking.
Speaker 4 (25:21):
Half not.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
After eight years working as a sergeant, Joel was tapped
for an important assignment.
Speaker 4 (25:30):
He actually was given an opportunity to become a sergeant
for internal affairs.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
Internal affairs is a department that investigates complaints and allegations
of misconduct against its own officers. The new job meant
Joel would work regular business hours and be home at night.
Speaker 4 (25:50):
I craved being able to have him at home. It
wasn't so much a matter of that I needed or
wanted help. It was a matter of wanting to have
the normal to sit together and hold hands in the
stands at the kids' games, to be able to not
have to rush, to be able to actually have a
meal at the kitchen table, falling asleep with someone at night,
(26:12):
being able to get ready together in the morning, some
plistic activities like cutting up the vegetables for dinner together
and cleaning up together and talking together. It was just
this time to finally exhale and have some time together
as a family.
Speaker 5 (26:27):
It was just so welcomed.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
She craved that companionship. When Joel moved to internal Affairs,
he began sharing more about his work with Caroline. Every
industry has its good and bad operators, but some of
what Joel revealed was disturbing.
Speaker 4 (26:48):
I started to hear about people who engaged in some
pretty concerning, immoral and unsavory acts while under the guise
of a police officer.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
It was eye opening to see how discipline worked at CSPD,
what conduct could get you fired, and how honesty could
save your job, even for very serious offenses. Caroline was
proud that Joel was well liked and respected. Here is
a retired CSPD officer. He asked that we call him Dan.
Speaker 8 (27:20):
He was always pretty cheerful. I actually always appreciated after
he got promoted how he treated his officers and stuff. Yeah,
he treated him really well, and I think he set
good expectations for him and seemed to genuinely care about
the cops that were working for him.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
His family beamed whenever he was honored for his work,
especially his daughter.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
I was very proud that my dad was the police officer.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
She remained proud even as the public's relationship with law
enforcement faced a watershed moment.
Speaker 3 (27:54):
There were riots in my town in twenty twenty, and
my dad was constantly out working in you know, during
that time. I was really proud of him, just because
I saw the sacrifices that he was making.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
These were the George Floyd protests that were shaking the
nation to its core. The mountain town of Colorado Springs
was no exception. Dan was working for the department then
and recalls the experience for us.
Speaker 5 (28:31):
It was pretty substantial.
Speaker 8 (28:32):
I mean, we had good week or so of several
thousand people out in the streets. It got actually fairly
hairy at times as far as just the potential for
violence to really get set off.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
Caroline and Joel wanted their community to know that while
they supported the police, they did not accept the kind
of policing that led to George Floyd's death.
Speaker 4 (28:57):
Joel was a police officer who absolutely disagreed with what
occurred to George Floyd and made sure anywhere we went
socially or publicly known that he did not believe how
that circumstance and situation was handled.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
Even though she supported the protests, she was scared for
her husband's safety. He had to work the front lines.
Speaker 4 (29:23):
People were throwing frozen water bottles or rocks, and he
would say, oh, look look at this bruise that popped up.
Speaker 5 (29:29):
This was from a frozen water bottle.
Speaker 4 (29:32):
We had friends who they knew that he was working
long hours and would hear from me that he hadn't
been home for sixteen seventeen hours, and they were bringing
food over and checking in on him, letting him know
that they were praying for him, that they knew he
was one of the good ones.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
That's what they all thought that he was one of
the good ones. Caroline knew Joel was one of the
(30:12):
good ones. She had seen it with her own eyes.
Joel was her rock during one of the hardest moments
of her life.
Speaker 4 (30:21):
I described for you just how close I was with
my parents. Joel was with me and my family when
my dad passed away in twenty eleven, and then in
twenty sixteen, my mom was diagnosed with cancer. My mom
was scheduled to go in for just a routine appointment
(30:44):
in December of twenty sixteen, and I had a court
obligation with my job and I couldn't attend the appointment
and said, you know, should I cancel it? Should I
get coverage? My mom said no, no, no, it's just routine.
And maybe all asked Joel to go with me and
then I can take him out for a lunch date.
(31:04):
And I was sitting at my desk at work, anticipating
that I would get an update, and Joel called me
and he said, hey, are you alone? And I said yeah,
and he said I got to talk to you about
your mom's appointment, And so I said, okay, is everything okay?
He said no, and he said all of her labs
(31:30):
came back really concerning, and at this point, the ancologist says,
there's just really nothing that they can do for her,
and your mom doesn't want to try anything else.
Speaker 5 (31:46):
And I just walked out of work.
Speaker 4 (31:48):
And I drove to my mom's house and she was.
Speaker 5 (31:54):
Laying in bed.
Speaker 4 (31:57):
He was sitting next to her, hold in your hand.
And she died February first, twenty seventeen, and he was
there for those last moments. I remember that night, lying
next to him, and I said, you and the kids
are all I have now, and he said, we're going
(32:21):
to be together till the day we die, will be grandparents.
We have these two great kids.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
The same mother who once said, don't tell me you're
marrying a cop had come to trust him, to love him.
Speaker 4 (32:35):
One of the pieces of my mom passing away was
that she left him in charge of all of her affairs,
so he handled my mom's estate for her.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
Joel stepped in again when Caroline was faced with an
uncomfortable decision.
Speaker 4 (32:53):
I inherited different things, and one of them was a
specific rental property that I just did not want.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
Caroline asked for discretion here, but I will say this.
The property had a lot of dark history in her family.
Speaker 4 (33:07):
I said, I don't want this. I hate this place.
It has bad memories. It's always been a problem in
my family. I don't want this rental property. And he said,
it's passive income. I'll handle everything about it. You don't
need to worry about it.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
He stuck to his word and took charge of the
rental property. And take note the rental property is important
because it's going to come back later in Caroline's story. Actually,
almost every anecdote you've heard up until this point will too.
Speaker 5 (33:40):
Soon.
Speaker 1 (33:40):
After the loss of Caroline's mother, another exciting career opportunity
came Joel's way. The CSPD public Information officer was retiring,
and Joel was offered the position on a temporary basis.
This role meant he'd be the face of the department,
handling media relations and serving as the spokes person. Here
(34:01):
he is giving an interview to a journalist.
Speaker 6 (34:04):
Is it like during this time of a year that
homicides kind of picked up.
Speaker 7 (34:09):
I don't think there's any science per se on when
a homicide would occur, because, for the most part, it's
an intimate, violent crime. We're often committed by somebody that
you know.
Speaker 4 (34:20):
Joel would be the person at different crime scenes or
at different organization or events, or he would give the
speech on behalf of the police department.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
Joel loved being the CSPD spokesperson, and he loved the recognition.
Speaker 4 (34:38):
He would light up if we were in the grocery store,
or if he was outside mowing the lawn and one
of the neighbors would point out, or someone would randomly
point out, oh my gosh, I saw you on TV.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
Their home office was almost a shrine to Joel's accomplishments,
with newspaper clippings and plaques. He even jokingly referred to
it as the love Me Room. They were all proud
of him. Plus, the job meant he was on the
day shift, and that meant more time together. Once the
(35:10):
temporary role as public information officer ended, Joel tried to
get as much experience across multiple departments as he could.
It was the best path to leadership. Eventually, his hard
work was recognized and before long he was up for
the rank of lieutenant. This was a promotion, but he
came with a drawback. He would be back on the
(35:31):
grueling night shift at least for the time being.
Speaker 4 (35:35):
And just as I did with him when he was
trying to become a sergeant. I mock interview questions, read
over his promotional book, took a look at all that stuff,
and in twenty seventeen he was promoted to lieutenant.
Speaker 1 (35:49):
Then a year later, in twenty eighteen, Joel was offered
the role of public Information officer, but this time it
would be permanent.
Speaker 4 (36:00):
Came home and we were both excited because he was
selected for it.
Speaker 5 (36:05):
About two weeks.
Speaker 4 (36:06):
Later, he came home early in the morning and was
just acting very strange, and I asked, what's going on.
He said, I had a falling out with the chief.
And I said, you had a falling out with the
chief of police And he said, I had a falling
out with him, and he's taken away my opportunity to
(36:27):
be the public information officer.
Speaker 5 (36:30):
And I'm like, what are you talking about? What happened?
Speaker 1 (36:35):
Eventually, Joel revealed something that shook Caroline. He'd been grappling
with reoccurring memories of a childhood trauma. It was something
she'd known about, she didn't realize it was interfering with
his work. Joel explained how the stress had built up,
leading to an explosive confrontation with the chief. With Caroline's
(36:57):
unwavering support, he agreed to start therapy. Caroline found Joel,
a counselor experienced with first responders and PTSD the PIO job.
It was a loss, but Joel's mental health was the priority,
and later the same year, Joel was given another daytime
assignment overseeing special events for the department. The job had
(37:20):
its perks. He organized the motorcade with the Secret Service
whenever the president or vice president came to town, and for
Caroline it meant more time together as a family and
more quality time with her husband, and for a while,
Joel seemed well. Than one night they attended one of
their son's sporting events together, Joel was distracted and despondent.
Speaker 4 (37:46):
He became extremely withdrawn and very agitated. And so this
is about twenty nineteen.
Speaker 1 (37:54):
Caroline was concerned he was obviously in distress. Their son
just turned sixteen and started driving.
Speaker 4 (38:02):
I said something to him, and his commentary was, it's
because I can't get out of my head that he's
driving and he could be in an accident. Like he
said to me, you know, I think of all big
kids who I've seen in accidents who've been killed, and
I can't stop thinking about it. I can't stop thinking
about it, and so he's telling me this, and I
was mortified.
Speaker 1 (38:24):
Police officers are the first responders to a lot of
disturbing situations, so it wasn't a surprise that Joel experienced
this type of PTSD. These moments were tough, but they
were infrequent. Caroline looked for the joy in their lives
and made it a point to celebrate all the good
they had.
Speaker 4 (38:45):
Our son graduated from high school, our daughter had her
sixteenth birthday, and we celebrated twenty years of marriage.
Speaker 1 (38:56):
They wanted to celebrate big with a family beach vacation.
Here's Caroline and Joel's son.
Speaker 6 (39:03):
I took my best friend from home, and then my family,
family friends. We all went down to Mexico.
Speaker 1 (39:10):
Joel and Caroline were devising a plan of their own
for their anniversary.
Speaker 4 (39:15):
Joel and I had talked about renewing our vows, and
he suggested we keep it a surprise. He said, let's
not tell anyone, let's, you know, get everyone together somehow.
Speaker 5 (39:27):
On the beach.
Speaker 3 (39:28):
It was a surprise one. I saw my mom in
that long dress. I remember like tearing up because when
I was growing up, I never ever saw my dad cry.
And so he started like tearing up, and you know,
his voice cracking a little bit when he was just
(39:51):
talking about how the first time he proposed to my mom,
it wasn't the best proposal. So this was a redal,
he said, and he like got on one knee and
gave my mom a new engagement ring. And so, you know,
(40:13):
I started tearing up because I never saw my dad
kind of express his emotions like that.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
Caroline shared some photos with me. She looks stunning in
a long white dress with a low back. In one shot,
her son walks beside her on the beach and her
daughter holds flowers. The kids look so proud of their parents.
Speaker 3 (40:36):
She did look like a bride, so it was cool
to see her all dawled up.
Speaker 1 (40:44):
Their son can still picture it.
Speaker 6 (40:46):
It was a proud moment for me because I walked
my mom down the quote unquote aisle more like a
sidewalk to the beach.
Speaker 1 (40:57):
The ceremony left their family and friends feeling an apt
glow long past the trip, but less than a year later,
in March of twenty two, Joel's mental health took another
turn for the worse. Caroline was terrified. She had never
seen him so upset or vulnerable.
Speaker 5 (41:17):
And I said, you know what's going on?
Speaker 4 (41:19):
And he says to me, Caroline, I think I'm having
I think I'm having a nervous breakdown, Like I can't
stop thinking about so many things.
Speaker 1 (41:26):
He was having horrifying, intrusive thoughts that wouldn't stop.
Speaker 4 (41:32):
He's crying, and I'm crying.
Speaker 5 (41:34):
He was sitting on the couch and.
Speaker 4 (41:37):
I'm sitting there and I'm kneeling in front of him,
and I just said, quit, just quit.
Speaker 5 (41:43):
You know you've done this for over twenty five years.
Just quit. We'll figure it out. I can't stand seeing
you like this. I don't want you to feel like this.
Speaker 1 (41:55):
The job must have been weighing on him for decades,
and it was all coming out now out the couple
had heart to hearts. Joel opened up about his parents,
details he'd never shared before. They started talking about the future,
about what life could look like if he changed careers.
Caroline didn't care what he did. She just wanted him healthy, happy. Then,
(42:19):
on Sunday, April tenth, Joel did something no one saw coming.
It rocked his family in the best way.
Speaker 5 (42:28):
Our daughter wanted to go to church.
Speaker 4 (42:30):
He never went, and as our daughter and I are
getting ready, he emerges and.
Speaker 5 (42:34):
Says he's going with us.
Speaker 4 (42:36):
And our daughter said, Daddy, are you serious. You're really
going to go to church with us? And he said yes,
And so we go to bed that night next day.
I love you. I love you. I'm proud of you
for making all of these committed changes for yourself.
Speaker 5 (42:54):
I know, I feel really good about it. Let's keep
talking about it. I love it. Sounds good. Kiss him goodbye.
Speaker 1 (43:04):
She thinks about that moment often because it was the
last time she understood her world.
Speaker 4 (43:12):
And as I me at work, it's about one point
thirty in the afternoon, and I'm in an online meeting
and I see a notification on my phone and so
it's our house cameras. There's someone detected at the front
door and in my driveway and I look and I
see it's Jol and he's dragging up the trash cans.
(43:34):
It was trash day. And I thought, that's weird. Wonder
why he's home, And so.
Speaker 5 (43:40):
I just sent him a quick text and I said, hey,
I'm in an online meeting, what are you doing home
so early? And he didn't respond, and I'm watching him.
Speaker 4 (43:50):
I'm watching him pull up the trash can.
Speaker 5 (43:52):
I'm watching him pull up the.
Speaker 4 (43:53):
Recycle and then I think to myself, where's his takeom car?
You know, I don't see his take home cop card.
And then I sent him another text, Joel, is everything okay?
Speaker 5 (44:04):
How come you're home so early?
Speaker 4 (44:06):
And so I see like the three little dots the
ellipses just kind of bouncing on my phone screen and
he responded back, No, everything's not okay. I fucked up
the worst I've ever flecked up in my life. I've
ruined our lives. You're going to want to divorce me.
(44:29):
I stared at that text for several seconds, and then
I said, what is going on? What is going on?
And he wouldn't respond back to me, and I said,
I'm going to leave work.
Speaker 5 (44:38):
Please tell me what is going on. You have me terrified,
And then he.
Speaker 4 (44:42):
Texted back, I was caught receiving oral sex from two
women in my cop car. I lied about it during
an internal affairs investigation. I am now pending termination. And
I just sat there at my desk and I gently
closed my laptop. I didn't excuse myself from my online meeting,
(45:06):
and I didn't tell anyone I was leaving work. I
kept my composure until I could walk outside, and I
was on a street corner headed to my car, which
was parked in a garage before I just started breaking
down and I called him, and I remember just tears
streaming down my face and I said, what did you do?
Speaker 5 (45:29):
What did you do? And he just kept chanting up.
Speaker 4 (45:33):
Carolyn, I'm sorry, I'm so sorry.
Speaker 1 (45:40):
This season on Betrayal, the good guide Joel appeared to
be was all a facade.
Speaker 4 (45:47):
Based on that information, tell me what happened that you
believe was the basis for the allegations.
Speaker 7 (45:54):
I would say that you know it wouldn't be something
that I'd want to my wife or kids reading obviously.
Speaker 1 (46:04):
Did part of you know deep down that.
Speaker 3 (46:07):
This was wrong? Yes, the momentary.
Speaker 4 (46:12):
Times you have these encounters, did it make you feel good?
Speaker 1 (46:23):
Thank you for listening to Betrayal Season four. If you
would like to reach out to the Betrayal team, email
us at Betrayalpod at gmail dot com. That's Betrayal Pod
at gmail dot com. Also, please be sure to follow
us on Instagram at Betrayal Pod and me Andrea H.
Gunning for all Betrayal content, news and updates. One way
(46:43):
to support the series is by subscribing to our show
on Apple Podcasts. Please rate and review Betrayal five star
reviews help us know you appreciate what we do. Betrayal
is a production of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass
Entertainment Group, in partnership with iHeart Podcasts. The show is
executive produced by Nancy Glass and Jennifer Fason. Betrayal is
(47:05):
hosted and produced by me Andrea Gunning, written and produced
by Carrie Hartman, also produced by Ben Fetterman. Our associate
producers are Caitlin Golden and Kristin Melcuri. Our iHeart team
is Ali Perry and Jessica Crincheck. Story editing by Monique Leboard,
Audio editing and mixing by Matt Delvecchio, editing by Tanner Robbins,
(47:28):
voice acting by Caitlin Golden, and special thanks to Caroline
and her family. Betrayal's theme is composed by Oliver Bains.
Music library provided by my Music and For more podcasts
from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you get your podcasts.
Hey guys. Before we dive into the episode, we have
exciting news. Betrayal is coming to substack, which is an
online community. We're calling our substack Beyond Betrayal, a place
where we dive deeper into the stories you hear on
this show. Please consider joining our community to gain access
to exclusive content, engage with me and subjects, as well
(00:23):
as connect with others who have experienced betrayal. Just head
to Betrayal dot substack that's sub stac k, or just
go to substack dot com, search beyond Betrayal and hit subscribe.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
I'm ashamed to admit I love you. That's what makes
us hurt so bad is because I care so much
about you. My family is the most important thing in
the world to me, and it still is, but now
there's just one last number of it. I cared about
you more than anything. I looked up to you. You
are an inspiration to me. You ruin my life, ruin
(01:05):
my eighty sister's life, and you ruin my beautiful mother's life.
That's what hurts the most is because I genuinely cared
so much about you.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
I'm Andrea Gunning and this is Betrayal Season four, Episode one,
one of the good ones. Hi everyone, I'm excited to
be back for season four of Betrayal. It's just incredible
how much this community has grown, and I wanted to
take a moment to give you my most heartfelt thank
(01:51):
you for supporting the series as well as our weekly series.
No matter how you found Betrayal, I'm really happy you're
here now. For the next several weeks, we will be
focusing on one story, a story that we learned about
only because a woman named Caroline and her daughter learned
about us. By the way, some names have been changed
(02:13):
to protect privacy.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
My name is Nicole. My mom was driving me up
to school. It was my first semester of college, so
me driving up my freshman year. It's an eight hour drive.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Nicole's mom, Caroline Brega, was the driver.
Speaker 4 (02:34):
I had said, you know, I'm tired of listening to
different music. My daughter found the podcast and so she's like, oh,
leave this, this is rated like super high. Let's listen
to this, And so I said okay. And so after
we started listening, when we were both just locked in,
and after just a couple episodes, I was fighting back
(02:56):
tears and I said nothing to her and she said
nothing to me, and then finally, you know, she broke
the ice and she looked at me and she said,
you know, mommy, this could be our family. I said,
I was thinking the same thing. I was thinking the
same thing.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
That thought stuck with Caroline enough to motivate her to
send us an email, and before we knew it, my producer,
Carrie and I found ourselves in Colorado Springs, where we
met Caroline Brega at her home. Caroline is a mother
of two who works in law enforcement. Her house is beautiful,
with vaulted ceilings in a cozy suburb of the Springs.
(03:36):
If one thing stuck out to me, this was a
forever home. She was warm, welcoming, and not alone. Little
did we know we were guests of a special night
Caroline does with the people closest to her. It's called
supper club, and they do it every Sunday night. They
drink wine, crack jokes, and unwine before the start of
(04:00):
another week. These friends never miss a supper club.
Speaker 5 (04:04):
Do you want another one of these?
Speaker 6 (04:07):
You mean?
Speaker 7 (04:07):
Okay, okay?
Speaker 1 (04:09):
We were complete strangers and the night could not have
felt more comfortable.
Speaker 5 (04:15):
So who wish us?
Speaker 3 (04:17):
Well?
Speaker 5 (04:17):
Fuck the rest they can go the hill.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
After dinner, Caroline gave us a tour of the dream
home she built with her husband of over twenty years.
She showed us trophies and ribbons from her kids' sports careers.
There were instruments in elementary school art projects, and there
were family photos smiling at us in frames all over
the house. This was a happy home of a happy family.
(04:41):
But when we looked a little closer, we realized that
many of the photos weren't of Caroline's family at all.
They were actually stock photos, the kind you get when
you buy a frame at the store. It became overwhelmingly
clear Caroline had deleted parts of her life. Actually just
(05:01):
one part of her life, the most painful one. Caroline
had removed all traces of her husband, her now ex husband,
Joel Kern.
Speaker 8 (05:13):
Would you please state your full name with the spelling
for the record.
Speaker 7 (05:16):
Joel Kern, k E or Inn and JOEO.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Joel was a decorated member of the Colorado Springs Police Department.
He had taken an oath to protect and serve the community.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
How long have you.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
Been employed by CSPD?
Speaker 7 (05:30):
Twenty five years?
Speaker 1 (05:31):
But on April eleventh, twenty twenty two, Caroline discovered that
the only person Joel was serving was himself.
Speaker 4 (05:39):
I'm at work and I see a notification on my phone.
It's our house cameras, and I look and I see
it's Joel and he's dragging up the trash cans.
Speaker 8 (05:50):
Will you be answering all of our questions concerning this
matter truthfully today?
Speaker 7 (05:53):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (05:54):
And so I just sent him a quick text and
I said, hey, what are you doing home so early?
Speaker 5 (06:00):
And he didn't respond, tell us.
Speaker 4 (06:02):
Why do you think those allegations against you were brought forward?
And then I sent him another text, Joel, is everything okay?
I see like the three little dots?
Speaker 8 (06:13):
I'll ask you specifically, have you ever uploaded whatsapped on.
Speaker 4 (06:16):
Your work cell phone number? And he responded back, No,
everything's not okay. I fucked up the worst I've ever
fucked up in my life. You're going to want to
divorce me.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
Season four is about truth. It's the foundation upon which
trust is built. So what happens when someone manipulates the truth?
What happens when a person or an institution believes that
they are above the truth. For Caroline, her husband's lies
completely undermined her sense of reality. It's been a hard
(06:51):
few years for Caroline and her family. Before we sat
down with her, she looked to her daughter for strength.
Speaker 4 (06:59):
She was very sweet and said, you are brilliant, resilient
and beautiful, and you deserve to tell the truth of
the story.
Speaker 5 (07:09):
You deserve to let people know what we went through.
And that's all the permission I needed.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
Nicole always felt a deep kinship with her father, Joel Kern.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
I really idolized my dad. I thought we had similar personalities.
We had the same humor, same kind of confrontational style.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
And for Joel, it wasn't just a job, it was
part of his identity. During Nicole's childhood, he rose up
the ranks in the Colorado Springs Police Department, and for
most of her life he worked unusual hours.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
My dad did work nights for the majority of my life,
and so most of the time I would only see him,
like during dinnertime. I was kind of proud of that
in a way, because he was serving our community, and
I was really happy to see him and all of
(08:08):
his cop friends, and like spending most birthdays at the
substation and all that.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Substation was a new word for me. It's another word
for precinct. Caroline made sure not to skip celebrations just
because Joel worked at night. She brought the kids over
and they celebrated birthdays and holidays at the substation, so
Joel wouldn't miss out and the kids would have their
dad at milestone events.
Speaker 3 (08:37):
I did maybe idolize them more than my mom, just
because my mom was constant throughout my life. I wanted
his connection just because he wasn't really there for a
lot of the daily events with my brother and I.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
Joel's career was always the family's priority. When he had
to miss the kids sports, g or recitals, it was
for good reason. Their dad was on the side of
justice integrity, and this didn't happen by accident. Caroline and
Joel designed their life around his career. In fact, the
day she first laid eyes on Joel, he was in uniform.
(09:17):
It was nineteen ninety eight and Caroline was fresh out
of college starting her first full time job as a
domestic violence advocate.
Speaker 4 (09:25):
I was told from my employers that one of the
things that would be required of me as a component
of my training for the position would be to complete
a ROD Along with the Colorado Springs Police Department So
I showed up at the substation and I'm all of
twenty two years old, freshly graduated, just celebrated my birthday,
(09:45):
and I meet this police officer and his name was Troy.
Speaker 5 (09:50):
The first part of what we were going to do for.
Speaker 4 (09:51):
The evening is that we would sit in the lineup
room and I would be able to listen to a
police lineup.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
When Caroline says lineup, she he was talking about the
briefing officers received at the start of their shift. It's
when this sergeant gives out updates and assignments.
Speaker 4 (10:07):
As wind up's getting ready to begin, this person walks in.
He's very tall, I'm very handsome, and just looks kind
of discombobulated.
Speaker 5 (10:15):
He's carrying a.
Speaker 4 (10:16):
Radar gun and a clipboard while still trying to balance
this coffee mug. And everyone's kind of giggling, and the
police sergeant said, well, I guess we can start lineup.
When Joel finds his seat, everyone and I'm staring at him,
and I admit I.
Speaker 5 (10:32):
Was just awestrug.
Speaker 4 (10:34):
He was handsome and young, and when he sat down,
I could see him turning back around and staring at me,
and you know, I get flushed.
Speaker 5 (10:43):
And I look away.
Speaker 4 (10:45):
But the times when I would look over and we
caught eyes, there's no other way to put it.
Speaker 5 (10:50):
It was electrifying.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
There was something happening between them. Caroline didn't know it then,
but that night altered the trajectory of her life. And
since we're going to be talking a lot about the
Colorado Springs Police Department, I'll referred to it as the
CSPD from now on.
Speaker 4 (11:11):
And then as lineup finished, Troy came back to me
and he said, Okay, are you ready to get going?
And before we were leaving the lineup room, Joel came
kind of hurriedly over to us and he said, Troy,
don't forget I'm your partner tonight.
Speaker 5 (11:29):
And Troy just kind of.
Speaker 4 (11:30):
Let out this sigh, and then he looked at me
and he said, and this is Joel clearly trying to
insert himself, to get himself introduced to you, Joel, this
is Caroline.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
The ride along was routine, but it was a long night.
When they returned to the substation, Caroline was ready to
get home.
Speaker 4 (11:50):
And as I'm approaching my car, Joel kind of almost
running out comes out to me. It was like, Hey,
I just wanted to say to you. I know that
you're new in town, so I wanted to give you
my business card and let you know that if you
ever needed to be showed around town, or if you
wanted a tour of the city, let me know. And
(12:11):
I said, I don't need to be shown around this town.
I grew up here, so I have no need for
a tour guide.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
Caroline was playing it cool, but he gave her his
number anyway, and.
Speaker 4 (12:24):
I just took the business card and got in my car.
I drove home that night and my mom was waiting
up for me. She was like, Oh, I'm just so
relieved your home safely.
Speaker 5 (12:34):
I'd been waiting up.
Speaker 4 (12:35):
I couldn't sleep. How was the evening? And the first
words out of my mouth before anything were I met
the man I'm going to marry. And my mom sat
there in silence, and then she stared at me, and
her next response was, Jesus Christ, that better not be
a cop, and I just started laughing. I went to
(12:56):
bed and I fell asleep for a couple hours. And
when I woke up, I rolled over and I had
Joel's business card on my nightstands and I picked up
the phone. This is nineteen ninety eight. I used my parents' landline,
called his work and I left a voice smell for him.
(13:18):
I said, hey, it's Caroline. I don't need a tour guide,
but if you ever want to get together sometime, let
me know. And within twenty or thirty minutes, my parents'
house line ring and after I said hello, the first
words out of his mouth were, what took you so
long to call me?
Speaker 1 (13:56):
Joel wanted to see her that night, but she had plans.
It was Caroline's turn to cook Sunday dinner for her family.
To her surprise, he was down to show up at
her parents and bravely dine with her mom, dad, and
two older sisters.
Speaker 4 (14:12):
He was a trooper with it. I mean, he was
very coldly greeted by my parents. My sisters were incredibly
amused by the fact that I had just met this
person on a ride along and I was inviting him
over for Sunday dinner, and so you know, they were
giddy and giggly about it.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
Joel and Caroline were skipping a lot of steps. This
would typically be day ten, not date one, but it
felt right having Joel there beside her, and from that
moment on.
Speaker 4 (14:44):
We became inseparable, and I should clarify, I mean inseparable
as we could be. With regards to his schedule. He
worked four days on and had three days off, and
the four days that he w worked on were ten
hour shifts at night.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
But when they were together, it was like the beginning
all over again. Caroline and Joel made the most of
the gorgeous landscape in Colorado.
Speaker 4 (15:12):
We enjoyed driving up to see the leaves when they changed,
and going on different hikes, and driving through different passes
and going to different mountain towns. We were both young,
and you know you're in love and attracted to each other.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
They had met early in the summer of nineteen ninety eight,
and in the fall, Caroline had planned to go to
graduate school a few hours away in Boulder, but Joel
wasn't about to let her get away.
Speaker 4 (15:43):
When it came time for me to go to graduate school,
Joel had said to me, my career is established, and
you have so many connections here in your hometown. Why
don't you just stay. And we had a little bit
of a negotiation where I said, well, I'm not going
to just Smith's graduate school. This is something that I
like to stay and pursue all enroll at the local university.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
Here here's Caroline's best friend, Debra.
Speaker 9 (16:11):
We started hanging out more because we played on a
recreational volleyball league together and Joel was a part of that.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
Debra is, as Carolyne says her, ride or Die. They
met back in their twenties at work, and they even
have a nickname for each other.
Speaker 5 (16:29):
It's Sally.
Speaker 9 (16:30):
We're like, if we ever go to jail, we'd be
cell mates, our little partners in crime, and so we
call each other Sally.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
Deborah knew Joel from the beginning of their relationship.
Speaker 5 (16:44):
You know, they were.
Speaker 9 (16:45):
Always great together. I looked up to them as a couple.
She was very attendant to him. He seemed attentative to her.
He was great. There was like two different Jewels. There
was work mode Joel, who was very serious took his
job seriously, and then there was Joel outside of work
(17:05):
that loved to hang out, loved to, you know, have
a drink here and there, and we just always had
a good time.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
Caroline loved him, her friends and family had grown to
love him. They were dating for a little over two years.
Speaker 4 (17:24):
When we were getting ready to go out somewhere. I
can't even remember where what we're going to do. And
I went upstairs to you know, get my shoes on
or get a coat or whatever. And I turned around
and there he was with a ring. And that's how
we got engaged.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
The engagement was simple, but planning the wedding wouldn't be.
Caroline was Catholic but Joel wasn't. That meant they couldn't
get married in her church. But then Joel did something
extraordinary that surprised Caroline.
Speaker 5 (17:59):
Joel said, I'll convert for you. I just thought, oh
my god, thank you.
Speaker 4 (18:04):
It just drew us closer together and just made me
feel that much more loved and special that he was
willing to do that.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
Once Joel was confirmed as part of the Catholic Church,
he and Caroline prepared for the sacrament of marriage.
Speaker 4 (18:20):
We needed to do premarital counseling with our priest. The
counseling was actually something that was extremely relevant and beneficial.
I mean, there was a litany of discussions that were had,
and one of the discussions surrounded in fidelity, and so
(18:40):
I told him, I just want you to know that
I will work through and do anything for you.
Speaker 5 (18:47):
But I had two rules.
Speaker 4 (18:49):
Don't ever lay a hand on me, and don't ever
cheat on me anything else. I commit and promise to
you I will work through. And he said I agree,
and we had a mass of one hundred and fifty
people on a Friday evening.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
Three years after they met, on July twenty seventh, two
thousand and one, Caroline and Joel got married.
Speaker 4 (19:17):
He invited a childhood friend to do a reading, and
she was excited to be part of the ceremony.
Speaker 5 (19:24):
Love is patient and kind. Love does not envy or boast.
It is not arrogant or rude. And it was just
so beautiful, just so beautiful.
Speaker 4 (19:36):
Love bears all things, believes, all things hopes, all things endures,
all things.
Speaker 5 (19:44):
Love never ends.
Speaker 4 (19:48):
So around June of two thousand and two, I was
at Target one day. I was in the book area
and wanted to get a nice journal, and I passed
by this book What to Expect when You're Expecting, and
it was just kind of this moment of when was
(20:10):
the last time I got my period? And I started
looking at the book and I was giggling to myself
and I thought I should probably take a test.
Speaker 5 (20:20):
And I was pregnant.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
She took the test while Joel was sleeping, but she
wanted to share the news with him right away.
Speaker 4 (20:28):
He sat straight up in bed, stared at me for
a second, and then he said, this is what you want,
right And I said I do what about you? And
he said, yes, of course, of course I want to
be a dad.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
Once the shock were off, they were both really looking
forward to having a baby.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
You know.
Speaker 4 (20:51):
We told our parents right away and everyone was just
so excited for us.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
Caroline threw herself into preparing for motherhood. Joel began to
focus on providing for his growing family.
Speaker 4 (21:04):
It was important for him at this point to advance
his career because he wanted to be able to provide
the best he could for me and our child and
if we had other children.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
During her pregnancy, the couple made an agreement that Joel's
career as a cop would be the centerpiece of their life.
It was a sacrifice for the betterment of their family
and for the entire community.
Speaker 4 (21:30):
There were occasions where his work impeded some factors with
me being pregnant. He missed doctor's appointments and would call
and say, I can't make it because I'm at work.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
Still, Caroline experienced some lonely days, but the couple was
working for the future.
Speaker 4 (21:50):
Our son was born and a thankfully healthy, beautiful baby boy.
Joel stayed home just a couple days, and I went
right back to work and was very that he wanted
to focus on his career and making sure that he
showed that he was someone who was worthy of being promoted,
especially now that we had a child.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
As for Caroline's career, it was more flexible. She isn't
an officer herself. She asked us not to disclose her
exact job title. We'll just say she works in the
justice system and collaborates with law enforcement. So Caroline had
the utmost respect for the work her husband did.
Speaker 4 (22:30):
I knew what I was getting into. I knew when
I married a cop that I was going to be
alone a night. That we agreed he would have the
ability to make more money and that I would be
the person who would support it because I had a
more flexible schedule than him.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
Two years after their son was born, Caroline and Joel
welcomed a baby girl.
Speaker 5 (22:50):
Our daughter was born in two thousand and.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
Five, and then they saw their sacrifices start to pay off.
Speaker 4 (22:57):
Eleven days after our daughter was born, Joel was promoted
to the rank of sergeant. Being a midnight sergeant was
his focus for many, many years. We would have dinner
together as a family, and then he would leave for
work by eight pm, and then.
Speaker 5 (23:13):
I was home with the kids at night.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
Despite the difficult hours, Joel embraced fatherhood. As the kids grew,
Joel and Caroline brought them along for all their outdoor adventures.
They even got an r V.
Speaker 4 (23:26):
We would go on biking trips together, and hiking trips
together and camping trips together. You could see he just
enjoyed being around the kids and watching them live these
moments and experiences through their lens.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
From those early days, Joel encouraged their son to get
involved in his community. Here's their son.
Speaker 6 (23:50):
He was a leader all throughout my boy scout career
until I became an Eagle Scout.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
They even traveled to Florida for a scouting trip.
Speaker 6 (24:00):
Going Key to Key and snarkling on shipwrecks and seeing
all the sharks and the sea wildlife was probably the
most memorable.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
And Joel found ways to bond with their daughter, Nicole.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
I'm really big into lacrosse. I've been playing lacrosse my
whole life. He was the one that always took me
to my lacrosse games, my lacrosse practices.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
Both kids enjoyed the benefits of their dad being a
cop because they had access to exciting experiences, getting.
Speaker 6 (24:35):
To see the jail cells, or the armory or the
police motorcycles.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
Then there was Joel's police car.
Speaker 6 (24:43):
Getting to play with the sirens and then getting older,
being able to go on police ride alongs and all that.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
The car was a symbol of their dad's power and authority,
of his values his service. Despite Joel working nights, their
family thrived. Both kids were passionate about sports and became
competitive athletes, and they were focused, hard working students.
Speaker 4 (25:12):
Things just really felt like they were on this great trajectory.
Speaker 6 (25:16):
The saying was that the current family doesn't accept mediocrity,
which is half joking.
Speaker 4 (25:21):
Half not.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
After eight years working as a sergeant, Joel was tapped
for an important assignment.
Speaker 4 (25:30):
He actually was given an opportunity to become a sergeant
for internal affairs.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
Internal affairs is a department that investigates complaints and allegations
of misconduct against its own officers. The new job meant
Joel would work regular business hours and be home at night.
Speaker 4 (25:50):
I craved being able to have him at home. It
wasn't so much a matter of that I needed or
wanted help. It was a matter of wanting to have
the normal to sit together and hold hands in the
stands at the kids' games, to be able to not
have to rush, to be able to actually have a
meal at the kitchen table, falling asleep with someone at night,
(26:12):
being able to get ready together in the morning, some
plistic activities like cutting up the vegetables for dinner together
and cleaning up together and talking together. It was just
this time to finally exhale and have some time together
as a family.
Speaker 5 (26:27):
It was just so welcomed.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
She craved that companionship. When Joel moved to internal Affairs,
he began sharing more about his work with Caroline. Every
industry has its good and bad operators, but some of
what Joel revealed was disturbing.
Speaker 4 (26:48):
I started to hear about people who engaged in some
pretty concerning, immoral and unsavory acts while under the guise
of a police officer.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
It was eye opening to see how discipline worked at CSPD,
what conduct could get you fired, and how honesty could
save your job, even for very serious offenses. Caroline was
proud that Joel was well liked and respected. Here is
a retired CSPD officer. He asked that we call him Dan.
Speaker 8 (27:20):
He was always pretty cheerful. I actually always appreciated after
he got promoted how he treated his officers and stuff. Yeah,
he treated him really well, and I think he set
good expectations for him and seemed to genuinely care about
the cops that were working for him.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
His family beamed whenever he was honored for his work,
especially his daughter.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
I was very proud that my dad was the police officer.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
She remained proud even as the public's relationship with law
enforcement faced a watershed moment.
Speaker 3 (27:54):
There were riots in my town in twenty twenty, and
my dad was constantly out working in you know, during
that time. I was really proud of him, just because
I saw the sacrifices that he was making.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
These were the George Floyd protests that were shaking the
nation to its core. The mountain town of Colorado Springs
was no exception. Dan was working for the department then
and recalls the experience for us.
Speaker 5 (28:31):
It was pretty substantial.
Speaker 8 (28:32):
I mean, we had good week or so of several
thousand people out in the streets. It got actually fairly
hairy at times as far as just the potential for
violence to really get set off.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
Caroline and Joel wanted their community to know that while
they supported the police, they did not accept the kind
of policing that led to George Floyd's death.
Speaker 4 (28:57):
Joel was a police officer who absolutely disagreed with what
occurred to George Floyd and made sure anywhere we went
socially or publicly known that he did not believe how
that circumstance and situation was handled.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
Even though she supported the protests, she was scared for
her husband's safety. He had to work the front lines.
Speaker 4 (29:23):
People were throwing frozen water bottles or rocks, and he
would say, oh, look look at this bruise that popped up.
Speaker 5 (29:29):
This was from a frozen water bottle.
Speaker 4 (29:32):
We had friends who they knew that he was working
long hours and would hear from me that he hadn't
been home for sixteen seventeen hours, and they were bringing
food over and checking in on him, letting him know
that they were praying for him, that they knew he
was one of the good ones.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
That's what they all thought that he was one of
the good ones. Caroline knew Joel was one of the
(30:12):
good ones. She had seen it with her own eyes.
Joel was her rock during one of the hardest moments
of her life.
Speaker 4 (30:21):
I described for you just how close I was with
my parents. Joel was with me and my family when
my dad passed away in twenty eleven, and then in
twenty sixteen, my mom was diagnosed with cancer. My mom
was scheduled to go in for just a routine appointment
(30:44):
in December of twenty sixteen, and I had a court
obligation with my job and I couldn't attend the appointment
and said, you know, should I cancel it? Should I
get coverage? My mom said no, no, no, it's just routine.
And maybe all asked Joel to go with me and
then I can take him out for a lunch date.
(31:04):
And I was sitting at my desk at work, anticipating
that I would get an update, and Joel called me
and he said, hey, are you alone? And I said yeah,
and he said I got to talk to you about
your mom's appointment, And so I said, okay, is everything okay?
He said no, and he said all of her labs
(31:30):
came back really concerning, and at this point, the ancologist says,
there's just really nothing that they can do for her,
and your mom doesn't want to try anything else.
Speaker 5 (31:46):
And I just walked out of work.
Speaker 4 (31:48):
And I drove to my mom's house and she was.
Speaker 5 (31:54):
Laying in bed.
Speaker 4 (31:57):
He was sitting next to her, hold in your hand.
And she died February first, twenty seventeen, and he was
there for those last moments. I remember that night, lying
next to him, and I said, you and the kids
are all I have now, and he said, we're going
(32:21):
to be together till the day we die, will be grandparents.
We have these two great kids.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
The same mother who once said, don't tell me you're
marrying a cop had come to trust him, to love him.
Speaker 4 (32:35):
One of the pieces of my mom passing away was
that she left him in charge of all of her affairs,
so he handled my mom's estate for her.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
Joel stepped in again when Caroline was faced with an
uncomfortable decision.
Speaker 4 (32:53):
I inherited different things, and one of them was a
specific rental property that I just did not want.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
Caroline asked for discretion here, but I will say this.
The property had a lot of dark history in her family.
Speaker 4 (33:07):
I said, I don't want this. I hate this place.
It has bad memories. It's always been a problem in
my family. I don't want this rental property. And he said,
it's passive income. I'll handle everything about it. You don't
need to worry about it.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
He stuck to his word and took charge of the
rental property. And take note the rental property is important
because it's going to come back later in Caroline's story. Actually,
almost every anecdote you've heard up until this point will too.
Speaker 5 (33:40):
Soon.
Speaker 1 (33:40):
After the loss of Caroline's mother, another exciting career opportunity
came Joel's way. The CSPD public Information officer was retiring,
and Joel was offered the position on a temporary basis.
This role meant he'd be the face of the department,
handling media relations and serving as the spokes person. Here
(34:01):
he is giving an interview to a journalist.
Speaker 6 (34:04):
Is it like during this time of a year that
homicides kind of picked up.
Speaker 7 (34:09):
I don't think there's any science per se on when
a homicide would occur, because, for the most part, it's
an intimate, violent crime. We're often committed by somebody that
you know.
Speaker 4 (34:20):
Joel would be the person at different crime scenes or
at different organization or events, or he would give the
speech on behalf of the police department.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
Joel loved being the CSPD spokesperson, and he loved the recognition.
Speaker 4 (34:38):
He would light up if we were in the grocery store,
or if he was outside mowing the lawn and one
of the neighbors would point out, or someone would randomly
point out, oh my gosh, I saw you on TV.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
Their home office was almost a shrine to Joel's accomplishments,
with newspaper clippings and plaques. He even jokingly referred to
it as the love Me Room. They were all proud
of him. Plus, the job meant he was on the
day shift, and that meant more time together. Once the
(35:10):
temporary role as public information officer ended, Joel tried to
get as much experience across multiple departments as he could.
It was the best path to leadership. Eventually, his hard
work was recognized and before long he was up for
the rank of lieutenant. This was a promotion, but he
came with a drawback. He would be back on the
(35:31):
grueling night shift at least for the time being.
Speaker 4 (35:35):
And just as I did with him when he was
trying to become a sergeant. I mock interview questions, read
over his promotional book, took a look at all that stuff,
and in twenty seventeen he was promoted to lieutenant.
Speaker 1 (35:49):
Then a year later, in twenty eighteen, Joel was offered
the role of public Information officer, but this time it
would be permanent.
Speaker 4 (36:00):
Came home and we were both excited because he was
selected for it.
Speaker 5 (36:05):
About two weeks.
Speaker 4 (36:06):
Later, he came home early in the morning and was
just acting very strange, and I asked, what's going on.
He said, I had a falling out with the chief.
And I said, you had a falling out with the
chief of police And he said, I had a falling
out with him, and he's taken away my opportunity to
(36:27):
be the public information officer.
Speaker 5 (36:30):
And I'm like, what are you talking about? What happened?
Speaker 1 (36:35):
Eventually, Joel revealed something that shook Caroline. He'd been grappling
with reoccurring memories of a childhood trauma. It was something
she'd known about, she didn't realize it was interfering with
his work. Joel explained how the stress had built up,
leading to an explosive confrontation with the chief. With Caroline's
(36:57):
unwavering support, he agreed to start therapy. Caroline found Joel,
a counselor experienced with first responders and PTSD the PIO job.
It was a loss, but Joel's mental health was the priority,
and later the same year, Joel was given another daytime
assignment overseeing special events for the department. The job had
(37:20):
its perks. He organized the motorcade with the Secret Service
whenever the president or vice president came to town, and for
Caroline it meant more time together as a family and
more quality time with her husband, and for a while,
Joel seemed well. Than one night they attended one of
their son's sporting events together, Joel was distracted and despondent.
Speaker 4 (37:46):
He became extremely withdrawn and very agitated. And so this
is about twenty nineteen.
Speaker 1 (37:54):
Caroline was concerned he was obviously in distress. Their son
just turned sixteen and started driving.
Speaker 4 (38:02):
I said something to him, and his commentary was, it's
because I can't get out of my head that he's
driving and he could be in an accident. Like he
said to me, you know, I think of all big
kids who I've seen in accidents who've been killed, and
I can't stop thinking about it. I can't stop thinking
about it, and so he's telling me this, and I
was mortified.
Speaker 1 (38:24):
Police officers are the first responders to a lot of
disturbing situations, so it wasn't a surprise that Joel experienced
this type of PTSD. These moments were tough, but they
were infrequent. Caroline looked for the joy in their lives
and made it a point to celebrate all the good
they had.
Speaker 4 (38:45):
Our son graduated from high school, our daughter had her
sixteenth birthday, and we celebrated twenty years of marriage.
Speaker 1 (38:56):
They wanted to celebrate big with a family beach vacation.
Here's Caroline and Joel's son.
Speaker 6 (39:03):
I took my best friend from home, and then my family,
family friends. We all went down to Mexico.
Speaker 1 (39:10):
Joel and Caroline were devising a plan of their own
for their anniversary.
Speaker 4 (39:15):
Joel and I had talked about renewing our vows, and
he suggested we keep it a surprise. He said, let's
not tell anyone, let's, you know, get everyone together somehow.
Speaker 5 (39:27):
On the beach.
Speaker 3 (39:28):
It was a surprise one. I saw my mom in
that long dress. I remember like tearing up because when
I was growing up, I never ever saw my dad cry.
And so he started like tearing up, and you know,
his voice cracking a little bit when he was just
(39:51):
talking about how the first time he proposed to my mom,
it wasn't the best proposal. So this was a redal,
he said, and he like got on one knee and
gave my mom a new engagement ring. And so, you know,
(40:13):
I started tearing up because I never saw my dad
kind of express his emotions like that.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
Caroline shared some photos with me. She looks stunning in
a long white dress with a low back. In one shot,
her son walks beside her on the beach and her
daughter holds flowers. The kids look so proud of their parents.
Speaker 3 (40:36):
She did look like a bride, so it was cool
to see her all dawled up.
Speaker 1 (40:44):
Their son can still picture it.
Speaker 6 (40:46):
It was a proud moment for me because I walked
my mom down the quote unquote aisle more like a
sidewalk to the beach.
Speaker 1 (40:57):
The ceremony left their family and friends feeling an apt
glow long past the trip, but less than a year later,
in March of twenty two, Joel's mental health took another
turn for the worse. Caroline was terrified. She had never
seen him so upset or vulnerable.
Speaker 5 (41:17):
And I said, you know what's going on?
Speaker 4 (41:19):
And he says to me, Caroline, I think I'm having
I think I'm having a nervous breakdown, Like I can't
stop thinking about so many things.
Speaker 1 (41:26):
He was having horrifying, intrusive thoughts that wouldn't stop.
Speaker 4 (41:32):
He's crying, and I'm crying.
Speaker 5 (41:34):
He was sitting on the couch and.
Speaker 4 (41:37):
I'm sitting there and I'm kneeling in front of him,
and I just said, quit, just quit.
Speaker 5 (41:43):
You know you've done this for over twenty five years.
Just quit. We'll figure it out. I can't stand seeing
you like this. I don't want you to feel like this.
Speaker 1 (41:55):
The job must have been weighing on him for decades,
and it was all coming out now out the couple
had heart to hearts. Joel opened up about his parents,
details he'd never shared before. They started talking about the future,
about what life could look like if he changed careers.
Caroline didn't care what he did. She just wanted him healthy, happy. Then,
(42:19):
on Sunday, April tenth, Joel did something no one saw coming.
It rocked his family in the best way.
Speaker 5 (42:28):
Our daughter wanted to go to church.
Speaker 4 (42:30):
He never went, and as our daughter and I are
getting ready, he emerges and.
Speaker 5 (42:34):
Says he's going with us.
Speaker 4 (42:36):
And our daughter said, Daddy, are you serious. You're really
going to go to church with us? And he said yes,
And so we go to bed that night next day.
I love you. I love you. I'm proud of you
for making all of these committed changes for yourself.
Speaker 5 (42:54):
I know, I feel really good about it. Let's keep
talking about it. I love it. Sounds good. Kiss him goodbye.
Speaker 1 (43:04):
She thinks about that moment often because it was the
last time she understood her world.
Speaker 4 (43:12):
And as I me at work, it's about one point
thirty in the afternoon, and I'm in an online meeting
and I see a notification on my phone and so
it's our house cameras. There's someone detected at the front
door and in my driveway and I look and I
see it's Jol and he's dragging up the trash cans.
(43:34):
It was trash day. And I thought, that's weird. Wonder
why he's home, And so.
Speaker 5 (43:40):
I just sent him a quick text and I said, hey,
I'm in an online meeting, what are you doing home
so early? And he didn't respond, and I'm watching him.
Speaker 4 (43:50):
I'm watching him pull up the trash can.
Speaker 5 (43:52):
I'm watching him pull up the.
Speaker 4 (43:53):
Recycle and then I think to myself, where's his takeom car?
You know, I don't see his take home cop card.
And then I sent him another text, Joel, is everything okay?
Speaker 5 (44:04):
How come you're home so early?
Speaker 4 (44:06):
And so I see like the three little dots the
ellipses just kind of bouncing on my phone screen and
he responded back, No, everything's not okay. I fucked up
the worst I've ever flecked up in my life. I've
ruined our lives. You're going to want to divorce me.
(44:29):
I stared at that text for several seconds, and then
I said, what is going on? What is going on?
And he wouldn't respond back to me, and I said,
I'm going to leave work.
Speaker 5 (44:38):
Please tell me what is going on. You have me terrified,
And then he.
Speaker 4 (44:42):
Texted back, I was caught receiving oral sex from two
women in my cop car. I lied about it during
an internal affairs investigation. I am now pending termination. And
I just sat there at my desk and I gently
closed my laptop. I didn't excuse myself from my online meeting,
(45:06):
and I didn't tell anyone I was leaving work. I
kept my composure until I could walk outside, and I
was on a street corner headed to my car, which
was parked in a garage before I just started breaking
down and I called him, and I remember just tears
streaming down my face and I said, what did you do?
Speaker 5 (45:29):
What did you do? And he just kept chanting up.
Speaker 4 (45:33):
Carolyn, I'm sorry, I'm so sorry.
Speaker 1 (45:40):
This season on Betrayal, the good guide Joel appeared to
be was all a facade.
Speaker 4 (45:47):
Based on that information, tell me what happened that you
believe was the basis for the allegations.
Speaker 7 (45:54):
I would say that you know it wouldn't be something
that I'd want to my wife or kids reading obviously.
Speaker 1 (46:04):
Did part of you know deep down that.
Speaker 3 (46:07):
This was wrong? Yes, the momentary.
Speaker 4 (46:12):
Times you have these encounters, did it make you feel good?
Speaker 1 (46:23):
Thank you for listening to Betrayal Season four. If you
would like to reach out to the Betrayal team, email
us at Betrayalpod at gmail dot com. That's Betrayal Pod
at gmail dot com. Also, please be sure to follow
us on Instagram at Betrayal Pod and me Andrea H.
Gunning for all Betrayal content, news and updates. One way
(46:43):
to support the series is by subscribing to our show
on Apple Podcasts. Please rate and review Betrayal five star
reviews help us know you appreciate what we do. Betrayal
is a production of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass
Entertainment Group, in partnership with iHeart Podcasts. The show is
executive produced by Nancy Glass and Jennifer Fason. Betrayal is
(47:05):
hosted and produced by me Andrea Gunning, written and produced
by Carrie Hartman, also produced by Ben Fetterman. Our associate
producers are Caitlin Golden and Kristin Melcuri. Our iHeart team
is Ali Perry and Jessica Crincheck. Story editing by Monique Leboard,
Audio editing and mixing by Matt Delvecchio, editing by Tanner Robbins,
(47:28):
voice acting by Caitlin Golden, and special thanks to Caroline
and her family. Betrayal's theme is composed by Oliver Bains.
Music library provided by my Music and For more podcasts
from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you get your podcasts.
Host
Andrea Gunning
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