April 11, 2025 • 32 mins
Hosts Ramses Ja and Q Ward conclude their two-part conversation with Portia Allen Kyle, Chief Advisor at Color Of Change, the nation’s largest online racial justice organization. Portia Allen Kyle shares her response to President Trump's attacks on the Department of Education.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
And now part two of our two part conversation with
Managing director of Color of Change, civil rights attorney Porsche,
Alan Kyle, with myself, ramses Jah and q Ward Porsche
speak to us about.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
It's almost startling to even think about the dismantling of
the Department of Education, the implications, the fallout, what this
means for everyday citizens and people who grew up, where
we grew up, where people like us grew up, who
depended on the Department of Education for access to information.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Education books. What does America look like without a Department
of Education?
Speaker 3 (00:42):
You know, it's funny because I also think we know
what that America looks like too, right, it looks like
public education prior to Brown. So the Department of Education
is a direct legacy of the civil rights movement, right
like the promise of the Civil Rights Act and education
as a pathway opportunity, the promise of Brown v. Board
(01:03):
of Education, right in prohibiting or striking down separate but equal,
and you know, prohibiting discrimination in public education. None of
those promises were meaningful without enforcement, and the Department of
Education has been every step of the way the agency
that ensures that the states and local you know, governments
(01:25):
and board of education follow the law and ensure that
people are able to access opportunity right and they do that,
you know, through civil rights enforcement, enforcement of you know,
laws that provide for the provision of special education services.
This the Department of Education also administers you know, student
(01:47):
loans and student loans as has it always been perfect, No,
not at all. Has it allowed folks to access opportunities
that prior, you know, to the administration would have just
been out of reach because of a lack of funds. Yes,
like you know, the mister Pelgrims, you know, also critical
to you know, opening up opportunities, you know, to higher
(02:10):
education for students. And so there are so many things
that the agency does that not only are critical to protect,
but without protecting them and allowing them to be eroded,
whether that is through you know, the firing of critical
you know, agency staff, whether that is this silly proposal
(02:33):
to send some of the functions to other parts of
the government and trying to trick people, you know, into
the idea that don't worry, it'll just be this, you know,
it'll be the same thing, It'll just exist in other places.
We need to recognize that as trickery and like, you know,
not be fooled by that. But you know, the Department
of Education has really been critical in holding open the
(02:55):
promise of opportunity and recognizing how important education has been
to economic mobility for black people. We really should then
be concerned about what it looks like and the generations
to come about the role that education plays and how
it plays it and whether you know that promise is
(03:15):
even possible to fulfill in addition to all of the
very like practical questions that everyone across the country is
going to experience, right, Like, the dismantling of the department
and the eroding of the funding won't just impact children,
although it will impact the ninety percent of kids that
attend public schools, right, but it'll impact you know, if
it's not this year, it's the year after when states
are trying to figure out how they're going to pay
(03:37):
for their schools, and you know, localities are trying to
figure out how they're going to pay for their schools.
They only have a couple of mechanisms, and the primary
mechanism is taxes, and so everybody will you know, across
the country will potentially be impacted if the federal government
abdicates its duty, you know, to provide education and opportunity
(03:58):
through funding and the funding of critical public school infrastructure nationwide.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
You know, this is such an an unusual thing to
kind of reconcile. You think of certain things as kind
of like quintessentially American, you know, things that people will
(04:27):
do no matter what because they are American people. Things
that people will get no matter what because they are American.
And to see this administration villainize the Department of Education
as though it's somehow corrupt, somehow wasteful, you know whatever,
without substantiating any of those claims, and then you know,
(04:49):
just with the wave of a pen, dismantled this. This
it's now a legacy department. You know you mentioned around
versus Board of Education, which was decades ago. So this
is now fundamentally who we are as a nation, as
a superpower on the global stage. It's it's it's it's
(05:11):
it's crazy how there's a surprising calm associated with it,
and in terms of the administration, how they handle the
optics around it, like the presidents signed that with black
children around him, so as to say this is not
to you know, disproportionately affect back black children. This is
going to be a benefit to all right, And so
(05:33):
they got these props that they use to you know,
it's such a crazy time to live in and I
know I can't state that enough, but we're stuck here,
right And I know that can be very frustrating for people.
And I don't want to pretend like it's not frustrating
for us who are kind of the voices and are
(05:55):
kind of leading movements here and there. But you know,
for people that don't have a microphone and an audience
like you and I and you have today that still
feel like doing nothing is insufficient, talk to us about
(06:16):
some ways that maybe individuals can resist the forces of
this administration, you know. And I don't want to state
your brief here, but I do want to mention that,
you know, we talked about the boycotts, and that's obviously
one one way that we can go about doing it.
(06:38):
But Target has and I don't know if you've heard
about this, but Target is pushed back on that, saying, well,
the black products don't sell, and the people that we've
hired or that we've kind of put on the store
shelves have only made products that appeal to black people,
and so the products don't move as quickly and so
they need like more in the way development. That's something
(06:58):
to which I push back and said, you know, you know,
if you can lose money on a Black Friday with
lost leaders to get more people in the store, then
there's a business case that you can make for that.
And on top of that, if you have black products
on the shelves and you're committed to working with these
(07:20):
creators and these black entrepreneurs to develop the businesses alongside
this Island target, then you know, you can commit the
resources and the business strategies and so forth to develop
the brands. You don't just give up after a couple
of years in any event, that's just me kind of
leading you in the direction. I didn't want to do that.
But again the question is like ways that individuals can
(07:42):
you know, in your own house, when you go to
work and you come home, you take care of your kids,
you put them to sleep, you wake up tomorrow. You
got to fix the garage, and we can what are
those people, what can they do to maybe help all
of us resist the forces of this administration?
Speaker 3 (07:56):
You know those you said so many things and other
they're right, I'm sorry. Through my mind, well, I mean,
the first thing that was running through my mind is
I really wish we could get aligned to stop allowing
people to use their babies as props. But that maybe
that's a separate conferences.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
But the second thing that started running through my mind was,
you know how just not plausible, like just actually not
believable some of the arguments that these like you know,
corporations and folks are making and so like even on
the on the attacks against diversity, equity and inclusion, and
(08:32):
the administration's position that like these are illegal and you know,
reverse discrimination. Like if that were to be true, then
all of these companies, across industries, with all of their
counsel in separate law firms, and all of these colleges
and all of these programs had to all come to
the same wrong conclusion about their legality of these programs
(08:56):
and about you know, what they do. And now, like
when you really break it down, what had to happen
to get some of these programs together. The idea that
they're like all just illegal and you know, running a
foul of the law and discriminating against white people is
like actually kind of laughable as a like as a premise,
but to the question you actually asked, not the question
(09:18):
I wanted to answer, like, well do both.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
I mean it's you know, there is.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
So much people can do on an individual basis, and
I you know, really will say it all matters because
there there's levels of engagement, right, Like, there's really levels
to this, and people organizing their family at Thanksgiving is
just as important as like showing up you know, in
the in the street for protests, right Like, we all
have lanes that we occupy. We all have we all
(09:48):
have a role in those lanes and a role that
we could play very well. Right Like, so if you're
your starting places, I'm new to this trying to learn, then,
like the best thing you can do is go be
well informed because our people are subject to misinformation. And
if your family is like my family, you know, we
we got the text chats, the WhatsApp chains. Some are
(10:09):
still sending email from their AOL you know accounts, like
and you know, trying to figure out what's real what's not.
Got an email from my aunt about like our social
security you know, windfall and this and that. Like we're
all trying to figure out what's true when we're taking
in different information from all places, some of those places
more reputable than others. But like anybody that can, you know,
(10:31):
take the time and do the work. We all have
that cousin we call when we have a question about,
you know, maybe money or something we have that you
know person we call when we have a question about
you know, that we trust as a messenger, et cetera.
And if you're one of those persons, as many of
us are on at least one issue, be the reputable
source and not you know, the source that fans the misinformation,
right like, they're the second thing we need institutions. And
(10:58):
I don't just say this, you know as Portie who
is you know, the interim executive director of Color of Change.
I say this as like someone who understands very deeply,
in an eat from an ecosystem perspective, the role that
all of these various organizations play. And we can't all
play the same role, right Like, we need someone who
is more amenable to the inside, who's going to kind
(11:21):
of do their thing that then allows Color of Change
from the outside to come in from a different angle
and go a little harder and push you know, a
little further. Sure, right, we need organizations that are you
know focused on uh, you know, whipping together attorneys. We
need folks who are focused on the you know, media
(11:41):
and narratives. We need people that are going to take
on those democracy and voting fites, who are going to
organize students who are going to But all of those
institutions need funding and resources, and more importantly, they need engagement,
you know, from folks. And so for folks looking how
to you know, do something and stand up, become involved
whatever that choice is for you, find a find an
(12:03):
organization and love it, like love it with your time,
love it with your resources if you can love it
with your energy and your expertise, because we all need
reinforcement and you know, support from from the community in
this moment if we're going to weather the storm, because
our institutions will be under attack, and you know we've
seen that in history, we've already seen it to start today.
(12:25):
The third thing that I you know, really in addition
to you know, kind of being being the educating and
being the source of you know, good information, to you know,
becoming involved with organizations, et cetera. When see something, say
something is like maybe a shorthand way to put it.
(12:46):
But there are oftentimes that we see injustice in any form. Right, Like,
we're at work and somebody says something really messed up,
and instead of saying, hey, that was wrong in the
moment and calling it out, we'll maybe give some private,
you know, some private consolation to you know, somebody who
was wronged or heard or discriminated, discriminated against, or aggrieved.
(13:07):
This is a moment, and the hate that we're experiencing,
the like neo segregationists agenda that we're experiencing, thrives in silence.
We have to, you know, speak up. We have to
push back on these ideas and have to be really
loud about it because they will drown out the ecosystem.
There's just more there aren't folks at the same There's
(13:31):
there's no Twitter for like or ex for justice at
the moment, right blue Sky is trying to be a thing.
It does not have the reach of X, It does
not have the reach of Facebook, It does not have
the reach of you know, of Instagram or Meta or
Reddit or many of them. Yeah, Like, the infrastructure of
hate is deep, and the infrastructure that props up right
(13:55):
wing agendas and propaganda is really really deep. We need to,
you know, really figure out the ways to counterbalance that.
And part of that is even in those spaces to
continue to you know, rise up. Part of it is
making investments in a different set of ecosystem and infrastructure
that's going to get to our people and find our
(14:15):
people where they are.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
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Speaker 3 (14:25):
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Speaker 2 (15:20):
We are here today with the managing director of Color
of Change, civil rights attorney Porsha Alan Kyle. Porsha, I
want to stay where we are for a second. You
spoke about kind of being the source for good information,
and in the spaces that we all work in, we
(15:43):
admittedly and knowing we have access to more accurate information
than most people. The problem I've been facing in my ecosystem,
and I've shared this with Ramses with increasing frustration by
the day, is that it seems that no one wants
to be properly informed. Everybody just wants to be right,
(16:03):
so they'll post something or blast something off and it'll
be wrong, and I'll go fact check and do the
research and bring them accurate information, and they just have
no interest in the information I'm bringing, even though.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
It's far more accurate and far more true.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
Using our tools and our resources to kind of galvanize
our communities around good information. It seems that all of
us have also learned that there is wealth in writing,
because people who are seeking out information do still read.
Ramse and I are working on a book really about
(16:40):
radical candorous allyship with intention. Like you said, passive, you
can't be a passive ally anymore. You can't be a
neutral ally anymore. You can't just not be racist, you
have to be anti racist. So we're working on a
project now to that end. However, you are an author
who I think a lot more people should be following
(17:03):
and should be getting more information from. Can you talk
to us a little bit about advice to thrive by
because we want listeners to be able to tap in
with that as well.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
Oh that first, that's very kind, so thank you.
Speaker 4 (17:22):
You know.
Speaker 3 (17:22):
One of the lessons and takeaways that I've had across
like it really actually doesn't matter what role I've been in,
is that the bench is too small. There are not
enough of us who are not just where we are now,
we're you know, already somewhat outnumbered in this capacity, but
those who are coming up behind we have not necessarily
(17:45):
invested the time, the resources, the energy to build up
that next generation to make sure that when it's you know,
time to step aside, it's time to step aside, right,
And I would love nothing more.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
You know.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
I'm not as young as I used to be and
not as old as I hope to get, right, but
I fully anticipate and want to be when it's my
time to step aside, to be outflanked by somebody coming
up younger who's like, hey, you're not pushing us bold enough,
You're not taking us far enough. We should be demanding more,
(18:20):
raising the standard, and really you know, towing the line
and so invice to thrive by, you know, was really
born from that desire on how to build up the bench,
and particularly for attorneys and for public interest attorneys specifically.
(18:40):
You know, there isn't really a clear career path, you
know for those who want to come into this and
do this type of work. And there certainly aren't, you know,
any aren't a lot of cheat codes are kind of
behind the scenes on like, hey, this is you know
kind of how it works. Here's how to engage in
some strategy to get you know, from from where we
are to where we're going, and wanting to provide some
(19:03):
of the advice that would otherwise require insider information, backgrounds,
you know, just hidden things that people who you know
have been in space know, but if you don't have
access to spaces, or you're the first one from your
family or the first one you know from your social
(19:23):
network may just not know that can help open doors.
And like that that was the impetus with the goal
of you know, really perhaps trying in a personal way
to open more doors in a more last thing and
systemic way where one on one mentorship is never was
never going to get to scale. As much as I
(19:44):
love it and it's very fulfilling, but like, we can't
mentor ourselves out of systemic injustices, right, And so then
how do we pass information that allows people to take
advantage and allows people to engage and equips them with
the tools that hopefully makes their journey and their pathway
a little bit easier, Not you know, not advocating duties
of mentorship and sponsorship altogether, but wanting to you know,
(20:08):
make impact us a little bit more.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
Last thing, I think it's interesting that you kind of
took us there, because funnily enough, Q has been kind
of saying that for some time with respect to a
lot of our you know, legacy civil rights organizations. Now
some of them have been kind of moving forward, some
(20:30):
of them are a little bit slower to release the
reins to, you know, a younger, newer, more active element,
and that can feel very stagnant. And so I want
(20:50):
you to know that here, that perspective that you have
is well received, because you know, we do lots of
work all over the country with every I mean, take
your pick all this rights orgs. You know, we're on panels,
we're speaking, we're flying, whatever whatever is we're doing week
to week, month a month, and that's one of the
things that they do. They recognize it, and so they
(21:12):
try to bring in younger, fresher faces I suppose, and Q,
you can correct me if I'm wrong or anything, but
at least that's what I was thinking. But in terms
of the decision makers, you know, they're there's still a
lot of folks that are doing what has worked in
the past. And again, another point that Q makes quite
(21:36):
frequently when we have these conversations is the state of
play has changed entirely, and the old rule book and
the things that work. Once upon a time, there's a
whole different set of rules, with a different referee and
a different audience watching the game, and so the nature
of the state of play, as I mentioned, is different,
and so again that perspective is well received. Now, the
(21:58):
good news is that in so far as Color of
Change is concerned, you know, our belief is that they
have the right person in the right position at the
right time. And so we're not yet uh, anticipating your retirement,
and we still feel like there's a lot more steps
on your journey. Not to not to put anything on
(22:19):
your shoulders that you're that you don't want, but you know,
if you have anything that we should be you know,
paying attention to, uh, you know, talk to us about
maybe what's next for you, what's next for Color of Change,
you know, what what we can be on the lookout for,
especially for fans and new fans of yours and the organizations.
As a result of this conversation, yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:39):
I'm you know, I'm super excited about where we are
as an organization and what is you know on the horizon.
We have seen so much energy, you know, especially over
the past it's hard to believe we're you know, what
to just over two months like into this new world order.
(23:00):
But in those past you know, ten weeks or so
that that we've been uh, in this predicament, there is
so much energy that is you know, people really wanting
to figure out, Okay, what do we do? How, you know,
how do we move forward? How can I get involved?
How can I help? And that is an encouraging thing
and to me is super exciting. And so we've been
(23:22):
you know, we've been hosting rallies, We've been you know,
getting our members together, uh, doing trainings, We've been you know,
doing calls and texts and text banking. We are currently
doing a bunch of work. It's tax season. Taxes are
probably my favorite topic at the moment to talk about.
But you know, for those who who care about their refund,
(23:46):
for those who don't get a refund and just care
about the fact that they shouldn't have to pay money
to file taxes, should be paying attention to our work
on direct file. Direct file is the public option for taxes,
in the same way that the exchange is the post
option for healthcare right and the Affordable Care Act is
the public option. And we need more public options and
more government working for people, not less a little bit
(24:08):
of a sidebar, but get you know, getting involved in
that work, right, getting involved in the things. You know,
we are trying to build and work towards and organized
towards a world that is uh, you know what we
what we say in our mission right like more humane
and less hostile place for black people and all people.
(24:32):
And in doing that right, there is so much possibility
and so many actions to take. We need people to
you know, make demands. I'll give an example in the
news today is like twenty three and meters going out
of business and I don't know for sure because they're
you know, a private company, not required you know, to
(24:54):
provide any type of transparency. But something tells me that
perhaps disproportionately black people people are more perhaps likely to
have engaged in one of these DNA services trying to
trace their ancestry and trying to find you know, family
and history and you know, figuring where we go back
to come from. And you know that that uh is
(25:17):
perhaps not based on nothing. You know, we see, uh,
what's the show on PBS, you know, on the like
Ancestral Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
You're talking about Yeah, tell everybody who owned them, who
own their grandparents or whatever exactly, yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:30):
And do that through DNA, right, But for all of
those that have given their DNA to this company, you know,
trying to figure out their ancestry and their familial lines
when they're going out of business, everybody should be alarmed
about what happens to that DNA, where does it go?
And right now, you know, some of the people are
passing resources of well, California you know, allows folks to
(25:50):
demand that they're you know, data and their DNA be deleted.
And that's great. It is great that California has that
protection for individuals and also why we need broader regulation
about how these companies handle personal you know data, because
it can't be up to somebody seeing a random post
on X or receiving a random text or you know,
clicking on something a news break to figure out that
(26:11):
this is even happening, like companies should have. Regulation should
require an affirmative obligation of what happens when these companies
go out of business, of what happens when there's changes
in ownership of what happens you know, to their data
that allow people to be more proactively protected as opposed
to every man for themselves go you know, try to
(26:32):
see you get in where you can fit in, you know,
protect yourself. And so we're engaged in those types of fights.
We've relaunched a Black Tech Agenda that not only touches
on data privacy, but a number you know of other fronts.
You know, touches on the ways in which the proliferation
of AI is undermining our future, like from an environmental perspective,
(26:54):
how it's you know, undermining a lot of labor rights
and organization. You know, that touches on it's needed in
this moment for civic education to engage and live in
a digital world. You know, when years ago, when computers
were being you know introduced white people, you know, coding,
and black kids were being told we need to learn
how to type. Now they've moved on to AI and
(27:16):
we're being told we need to you know, learn how
to code. Right, And we're not going to code ourselves
to justice, and we're not going to in the same
way that we're not going to mentor ourselves out of oppression, right.
We actually need systemic change and solutions, and so we
are fighting on multiple fronts. I say all that to
say we are fighting on multiple fronts in ways that
I think are super energizing, exciting and like really laying
(27:38):
out a clear uh to me, what is a compelling
vision for a different future and how to make different
choices as a nation and you know, as a people
for the world we want to live in.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
Poorscha, I first want to say thank you for just
making time for us. These conversations are so much more
important than we realize. I think a lot of our constituents,
a lot of our friends, a lot of our colleagues
are dealing with this combination of anger, frustration, and hopelessness,
and we turn out to be the voices that they trust.
(28:11):
And we know this because people walk up to us
and tell us, you know, we are more necessary now
than we were.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
A few months ago.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
And as hard as it is to accept the gravity
of that statement, we've heard it enough times to know
that it's true. So someone like yourself making time to
talk to us and just inspire us, because even we
have those days where we're looking around like the sky
is falling and we have no idea what to do next.
(28:41):
How can we support you? Where do we follow you?
Where do we look for you? If we want to
get in the support Porsche business. If we want to
be your brother, get the book, guards and allies, and
we want more people to read this book.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
Tell us, tell us and tell listeners where they can
find you.
Speaker 3 (29:00):
Yes, I mean you can always find me a color
of Change dot org right like feel like go, you know,
join in. We are on some of the platforms we
campaign against, and so you can also find us on
X like on Instagram, on Facebook, where our people are frankly,
(29:20):
you know, on the in the corners of the interwebs.
The one thing I will say in terms, I'm so
happy and like appreciative of the opportunity to be here.
And I would say it is, you know, folks like y'all,
and you know, shows like this that are how we
are going to get our people back. That won't happen
talking to people, you know through the New York Times
(29:41):
and the Washington Post like that just isn't where our
folks are. And so it is, you know, ya y'all
play such an important role in the ecosystem. Yeah, I know,
I've said ecosystem a thousand times, but it is such
an important role in any way, you know, to be
supportive to you know, engage to let folks know about
our work keep people informed and let people know how
(30:02):
to get engaged. Glad to be able to do so well.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
We just followed you, We sent you a message, so
we are definitely going to lock in you know. We
we would love to have you back on this show.
We'd love to have you on any one of our
other shows or all of them. We'd love to continue
to build with you. This is a moment where we
are you know, We've always been about you know, solidarity
(30:31):
and kind of galvanizing all of this energy, you know
from folks who want to make the world more equitable
for all of us. But now it's not just a
nice thought. Now it's kind of mission critical. We kind
of need each other more than everything. So we'll definitely
do our part. As I mentioned, we're following you. Our
(30:52):
hope is that we can continue these conversations moving forward.
But for now, you know, I just want to say
thank you on behalf of me and Q and Chris
and all of us here at the Black Information Network.
Thank you very much for coming on to share your
time and your your brilliance, and you know the work
that you have done, the work that your organization has done,
(31:12):
the work that you are doing work you continue to do.
It's a joy, it's an honor. And you know, count
us among you know your brothers. You know when you
need we need a little extra on this side of
the world and the media side of the world or whatever,
because we got the bullhorn still too, and the batteries
do work, so we can hit the ground. Any sign
right once again, Today the.
Speaker 3 (31:32):
Day of Action and so any you know, anyway, if
you can highlight their events going on across the country.
Color of Change is you know, one of the sponsors
of that day of action. It's really about hands off
our medicaid, hands off our student loans, sure, hands off
our healthcare, like hands off food for our children, and
hands off snap. And so if you can amplify that
(31:55):
gets to attend and hopefully turn out that be wonderful.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
Oh we are all over it. Don't worry about that.
That's kind of what we do. We do believe in
direct action around here. So I'll leave you to interpret
that for your own purposes. But again that is a
core belief around these parts. So again, thank you so much.
Once again. Today's guest is the managing director of Color
of Change, civil rights attorney Portia Alan Kyle. This has
(32:23):
been a production of the Black Information Network. Today's show
is produced by Chris Thompson. Have some thoughts you'd like
to share, use the red microphone talkback feature on the
iHeartRadio app. While you're there, be sure to hit subscribe
and download all of our episodes. I'm your host Ramsey's
Jaw on all social media. I am q Ward on
all social media as well. And join us tomorrow as
(32:44):
we share our news with our voice from our perspective
right here on the Black Information Network Daily Podcast
And now part two of our two part conversation with
Managing director of Color of Change, civil rights attorney Porsche,
Alan Kyle, with myself, ramses Jah and q Ward Porsche
speak to us about.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
It's almost startling to even think about the dismantling of
the Department of Education, the implications, the fallout, what this
means for everyday citizens and people who grew up, where
we grew up, where people like us grew up, who
depended on the Department of Education for access to information.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Education books. What does America look like without a Department
of Education?
Speaker 3 (00:42):
You know, it's funny because I also think we know
what that America looks like too, right, it looks like
public education prior to Brown. So the Department of Education
is a direct legacy of the civil rights movement, right
like the promise of the Civil Rights Act and education
as a pathway opportunity, the promise of Brown v. Board
(01:03):
of Education, right in prohibiting or striking down separate but equal,
and you know, prohibiting discrimination in public education. None of
those promises were meaningful without enforcement, and the Department of
Education has been every step of the way the agency
that ensures that the states and local you know, governments
(01:25):
and board of education follow the law and ensure that
people are able to access opportunity right and they do that,
you know, through civil rights enforcement, enforcement of you know,
laws that provide for the provision of special education services.
This the Department of Education also administers you know, student
(01:47):
loans and student loans as has it always been perfect, No,
not at all. Has it allowed folks to access opportunities
that prior, you know, to the administration would have just
been out of reach because of a lack of funds. Yes,
like you know, the mister Pelgrims, you know, also critical
to you know, opening up opportunities, you know, to higher
(02:10):
education for students. And so there are so many things
that the agency does that not only are critical to protect,
but without protecting them and allowing them to be eroded,
whether that is through you know, the firing of critical
you know, agency staff, whether that is this silly proposal
(02:33):
to send some of the functions to other parts of
the government and trying to trick people, you know, into
the idea that don't worry, it'll just be this, you know,
it'll be the same thing, It'll just exist in other places.
We need to recognize that as trickery and like, you know,
not be fooled by that. But you know, the Department
of Education has really been critical in holding open the
(02:55):
promise of opportunity and recognizing how important education has been
to economic mobility for black people. We really should then
be concerned about what it looks like and the generations
to come about the role that education plays and how
it plays it and whether you know that promise is
(03:15):
even possible to fulfill in addition to all of the
very like practical questions that everyone across the country is
going to experience, right, Like, the dismantling of the department
and the eroding of the funding won't just impact children,
although it will impact the ninety percent of kids that
attend public schools, right, but it'll impact you know, if
it's not this year, it's the year after when states
are trying to figure out how they're going to pay
(03:37):
for their schools, and you know, localities are trying to
figure out how they're going to pay for their schools.
They only have a couple of mechanisms, and the primary
mechanism is taxes, and so everybody will you know, across
the country will potentially be impacted if the federal government
abdicates its duty, you know, to provide education and opportunity
(03:58):
through funding and the funding of critical public school infrastructure nationwide.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
You know, this is such an an unusual thing to
kind of reconcile. You think of certain things as kind
of like quintessentially American, you know, things that people will
(04:27):
do no matter what because they are American people. Things
that people will get no matter what because they are American.
And to see this administration villainize the Department of Education
as though it's somehow corrupt, somehow wasteful, you know whatever,
without substantiating any of those claims, and then you know,
(04:49):
just with the wave of a pen, dismantled this. This
it's now a legacy department. You know you mentioned around
versus Board of Education, which was decades ago. So this
is now fundamentally who we are as a nation, as
a superpower on the global stage. It's it's it's it's
(05:11):
it's crazy how there's a surprising calm associated with it,
and in terms of the administration, how they handle the
optics around it, like the presidents signed that with black
children around him, so as to say this is not
to you know, disproportionately affect back black children. This is
going to be a benefit to all right, And so
(05:33):
they got these props that they use to you know,
it's such a crazy time to live in and I
know I can't state that enough, but we're stuck here,
right And I know that can be very frustrating for people.
And I don't want to pretend like it's not frustrating
for us who are kind of the voices and are
(05:55):
kind of leading movements here and there. But you know,
for people that don't have a microphone and an audience
like you and I and you have today that still
feel like doing nothing is insufficient, talk to us about
(06:16):
some ways that maybe individuals can resist the forces of
this administration, you know. And I don't want to state
your brief here, but I do want to mention that,
you know, we talked about the boycotts, and that's obviously
one one way that we can go about doing it.
(06:38):
But Target has and I don't know if you've heard
about this, but Target is pushed back on that, saying, well,
the black products don't sell, and the people that we've
hired or that we've kind of put on the store
shelves have only made products that appeal to black people,
and so the products don't move as quickly and so
they need like more in the way development. That's something
(06:58):
to which I push back and said, you know, you know,
if you can lose money on a Black Friday with
lost leaders to get more people in the store, then
there's a business case that you can make for that.
And on top of that, if you have black products
on the shelves and you're committed to working with these
(07:20):
creators and these black entrepreneurs to develop the businesses alongside
this Island target, then you know, you can commit the
resources and the business strategies and so forth to develop
the brands. You don't just give up after a couple
of years in any event, that's just me kind of
leading you in the direction. I didn't want to do that.
But again the question is like ways that individuals can
(07:42):
you know, in your own house, when you go to
work and you come home, you take care of your kids,
you put them to sleep, you wake up tomorrow. You
got to fix the garage, and we can what are
those people, what can they do to maybe help all
of us resist the forces of this administration?
Speaker 3 (07:56):
You know those you said so many things and other
they're right, I'm sorry. Through my mind, well, I mean,
the first thing that was running through my mind is
I really wish we could get aligned to stop allowing
people to use their babies as props. But that maybe
that's a separate conferences.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
But the second thing that started running through my mind was,
you know how just not plausible, like just actually not
believable some of the arguments that these like you know,
corporations and folks are making and so like even on
the on the attacks against diversity, equity and inclusion, and
(08:32):
the administration's position that like these are illegal and you know,
reverse discrimination. Like if that were to be true, then
all of these companies, across industries, with all of their
counsel in separate law firms, and all of these colleges
and all of these programs had to all come to
the same wrong conclusion about their legality of these programs
(08:56):
and about you know, what they do. And now, like
when you really break it down, what had to happen
to get some of these programs together. The idea that
they're like all just illegal and you know, running a
foul of the law and discriminating against white people is
like actually kind of laughable as a like as a premise,
but to the question you actually asked, not the question
(09:18):
I wanted to answer, like, well do both.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
I mean it's you know, there is.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
So much people can do on an individual basis, and
I you know, really will say it all matters because
there there's levels of engagement, right, Like, there's really levels
to this, and people organizing their family at Thanksgiving is
just as important as like showing up you know, in
the in the street for protests, right Like, we all
have lanes that we occupy. We all have we all
(09:48):
have a role in those lanes and a role that
we could play very well. Right Like, so if you're
your starting places, I'm new to this trying to learn, then,
like the best thing you can do is go be
well informed because our people are subject to misinformation. And
if your family is like my family, you know, we
we got the text chats, the WhatsApp chains. Some are
(10:09):
still sending email from their AOL you know accounts, like
and you know, trying to figure out what's real what's not.
Got an email from my aunt about like our social
security you know, windfall and this and that. Like we're
all trying to figure out what's true when we're taking
in different information from all places, some of those places
more reputable than others. But like anybody that can, you know,
(10:31):
take the time and do the work. We all have
that cousin we call when we have a question about,
you know, maybe money or something we have that you
know person we call when we have a question about
you know, that we trust as a messenger, et cetera.
And if you're one of those persons, as many of
us are on at least one issue, be the reputable
source and not you know, the source that fans the misinformation,
right like, they're the second thing we need institutions. And
(10:58):
I don't just say this, you know as Portie who
is you know, the interim executive director of Color of Change.
I say this as like someone who understands very deeply,
in an eat from an ecosystem perspective, the role that
all of these various organizations play. And we can't all
play the same role, right Like, we need someone who
is more amenable to the inside, who's going to kind
(11:21):
of do their thing that then allows Color of Change
from the outside to come in from a different angle
and go a little harder and push you know, a
little further. Sure, right, we need organizations that are you
know focused on uh, you know, whipping together attorneys. We
need folks who are focused on the you know, media
(11:41):
and narratives. We need people that are going to take
on those democracy and voting fites, who are going to
organize students who are going to But all of those
institutions need funding and resources, and more importantly, they need engagement,
you know, from folks. And so for folks looking how
to you know, do something and stand up, become involved
whatever that choice is for you, find a find an
(12:03):
organization and love it, like love it with your time,
love it with your resources if you can love it
with your energy and your expertise, because we all need
reinforcement and you know, support from from the community in
this moment if we're going to weather the storm, because
our institutions will be under attack, and you know we've
seen that in history, we've already seen it to start today.
(12:25):
The third thing that I you know, really in addition
to you know, kind of being being the educating and
being the source of you know, good information, to you know,
becoming involved with organizations, et cetera. When see something, say
something is like maybe a shorthand way to put it.
(12:46):
But there are oftentimes that we see injustice in any form. Right, Like,
we're at work and somebody says something really messed up,
and instead of saying, hey, that was wrong in the
moment and calling it out, we'll maybe give some private,
you know, some private consolation to you know, somebody who
was wronged or heard or discriminated, discriminated against, or aggrieved.
(13:07):
This is a moment, and the hate that we're experiencing,
the like neo segregationists agenda that we're experiencing, thrives in silence.
We have to, you know, speak up. We have to
push back on these ideas and have to be really
loud about it because they will drown out the ecosystem.
There's just more there aren't folks at the same There's
(13:31):
there's no Twitter for like or ex for justice at
the moment, right blue Sky is trying to be a thing.
It does not have the reach of X, It does
not have the reach of Facebook, It does not have
the reach of you know, of Instagram or Meta or
Reddit or many of them. Yeah, Like, the infrastructure of
hate is deep, and the infrastructure that props up right
(13:55):
wing agendas and propaganda is really really deep. We need to,
you know, really figure out the ways to counterbalance that.
And part of that is even in those spaces to
continue to you know, rise up. Part of it is
making investments in a different set of ecosystem and infrastructure
that's going to get to our people and find our
(14:15):
people where they are.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
Black Black, Yeah, peace of the planet.
Speaker 4 (14:19):
I go by the name of Charlamagne and God and
I can't wait to see y'all at the third Annual
Black Effect Podcast Festival.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
That's right.
Speaker 4 (14:25):
Yeah, number three, Baby Black, Called Black Rose, More Black CEO.
We coming back to Pullman Yard Saturday for twenty six
in Atlanta, posted by none other than Mandy B and Weezy.
That's right, Decisions, Decisions. The Black Effect is bringing some
of the biggest and best podcasts in the world to the.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
Stage for one day only. Ready.
Speaker 4 (14:43):
We got the R and B Money Podcast with taking
Jay Valentine. You got the Woman of All Podcast with
Sara Jay Roberts, Good Mom's Bad Choices, neckd Sports with
Carrie Champion, and the Trap Nerds podcast were more to
be announced, and of course it's bigger than podcasts. We're
bringing the Black Effect marketplace with black owned businesses, plus
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(15:03):
visit us. All right, and for all my aspiring podcasters,
we got something for you too, you know. We got
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Tickets on sell now tap into at Black Effect dot
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Speaker 2 (15:20):
We are here today with the managing director of Color
of Change, civil rights attorney Porsha Alan Kyle. Porsha, I
want to stay where we are for a second. You
spoke about kind of being the source for good information,
and in the spaces that we all work in, we
(15:43):
admittedly and knowing we have access to more accurate information
than most people. The problem I've been facing in my ecosystem,
and I've shared this with Ramses with increasing frustration by
the day, is that it seems that no one wants
to be properly informed. Everybody just wants to be right,
(16:03):
so they'll post something or blast something off and it'll
be wrong, and I'll go fact check and do the
research and bring them accurate information, and they just have
no interest in the information I'm bringing, even though.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
It's far more accurate and far more true.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
Using our tools and our resources to kind of galvanize
our communities around good information. It seems that all of
us have also learned that there is wealth in writing,
because people who are seeking out information do still read.
Ramse and I are working on a book really about
(16:40):
radical candorous allyship with intention. Like you said, passive, you
can't be a passive ally anymore. You can't be a
neutral ally anymore. You can't just not be racist, you
have to be anti racist. So we're working on a
project now to that end. However, you are an author
who I think a lot more people should be following
(17:03):
and should be getting more information from. Can you talk
to us a little bit about advice to thrive by
because we want listeners to be able to tap in
with that as well.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
Oh that first, that's very kind, so thank you.
Speaker 4 (17:22):
You know.
Speaker 3 (17:22):
One of the lessons and takeaways that I've had across
like it really actually doesn't matter what role I've been in,
is that the bench is too small. There are not
enough of us who are not just where we are now,
we're you know, already somewhat outnumbered in this capacity, but
those who are coming up behind we have not necessarily
(17:45):
invested the time, the resources, the energy to build up
that next generation to make sure that when it's you know,
time to step aside, it's time to step aside, right,
And I would love nothing more.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
You know.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
I'm not as young as I used to be and
not as old as I hope to get, right, but
I fully anticipate and want to be when it's my
time to step aside, to be outflanked by somebody coming
up younger who's like, hey, you're not pushing us bold enough,
You're not taking us far enough. We should be demanding more,
(18:20):
raising the standard, and really you know, towing the line
and so invice to thrive by, you know, was really
born from that desire on how to build up the bench,
and particularly for attorneys and for public interest attorneys specifically.
(18:40):
You know, there isn't really a clear career path, you
know for those who want to come into this and
do this type of work. And there certainly aren't, you know,
any aren't a lot of cheat codes are kind of
behind the scenes on like, hey, this is you know
kind of how it works. Here's how to engage in
some strategy to get you know, from from where we
are to where we're going, and wanting to provide some
(19:03):
of the advice that would otherwise require insider information, backgrounds,
you know, just hidden things that people who you know
have been in space know, but if you don't have
access to spaces, or you're the first one from your
family or the first one you know from your social
(19:23):
network may just not know that can help open doors.
And like that that was the impetus with the goal
of you know, really perhaps trying in a personal way
to open more doors in a more last thing and
systemic way where one on one mentorship is never was
never going to get to scale. As much as I
(19:44):
love it and it's very fulfilling, but like, we can't
mentor ourselves out of systemic injustices, right, And so then
how do we pass information that allows people to take
advantage and allows people to engage and equips them with
the tools that hopefully makes their journey and their pathway
a little bit easier, Not you know, not advocating duties
of mentorship and sponsorship altogether, but wanting to you know,
(20:08):
make impact us a little bit more.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
Last thing, I think it's interesting that you kind of
took us there, because funnily enough, Q has been kind
of saying that for some time with respect to a
lot of our you know, legacy civil rights organizations. Now
some of them have been kind of moving forward, some
(20:30):
of them are a little bit slower to release the
reins to, you know, a younger, newer, more active element,
and that can feel very stagnant. And so I want
(20:50):
you to know that here, that perspective that you have
is well received, because you know, we do lots of
work all over the country with every I mean, take
your pick all this rights orgs. You know, we're on panels,
we're speaking, we're flying, whatever whatever is we're doing week
to week, month a month, and that's one of the
things that they do. They recognize it, and so they
(21:12):
try to bring in younger, fresher faces I suppose, and Q,
you can correct me if I'm wrong or anything, but
at least that's what I was thinking. But in terms
of the decision makers, you know, they're there's still a
lot of folks that are doing what has worked in
the past. And again, another point that Q makes quite
(21:36):
frequently when we have these conversations is the state of
play has changed entirely, and the old rule book and
the things that work. Once upon a time, there's a
whole different set of rules, with a different referee and
a different audience watching the game, and so the nature
of the state of play, as I mentioned, is different,
and so again that perspective is well received. Now, the
(21:58):
good news is that in so far as Color of
Change is concerned, you know, our belief is that they
have the right person in the right position at the
right time. And so we're not yet uh, anticipating your retirement,
and we still feel like there's a lot more steps
on your journey. Not to not to put anything on
(22:19):
your shoulders that you're that you don't want, but you know,
if you have anything that we should be you know,
paying attention to, uh, you know, talk to us about
maybe what's next for you, what's next for Color of Change,
you know, what what we can be on the lookout for,
especially for fans and new fans of yours and the organizations.
As a result of this conversation, yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:39):
I'm you know, I'm super excited about where we are
as an organization and what is you know on the horizon.
We have seen so much energy, you know, especially over
the past it's hard to believe we're you know, what
to just over two months like into this new world order.
(23:00):
But in those past you know, ten weeks or so
that that we've been uh, in this predicament, there is
so much energy that is you know, people really wanting
to figure out, Okay, what do we do? How, you know,
how do we move forward? How can I get involved?
How can I help? And that is an encouraging thing
and to me is super exciting. And so we've been
(23:22):
you know, we've been hosting rallies, We've been you know,
getting our members together, uh, doing trainings, We've been you know,
doing calls and texts and text banking. We are currently
doing a bunch of work. It's tax season. Taxes are
probably my favorite topic at the moment to talk about.
But you know, for those who who care about their refund,
(23:46):
for those who don't get a refund and just care
about the fact that they shouldn't have to pay money
to file taxes, should be paying attention to our work
on direct file. Direct file is the public option for taxes,
in the same way that the exchange is the post
option for healthcare right and the Affordable Care Act is
the public option. And we need more public options and
more government working for people, not less a little bit
(24:08):
of a sidebar, but get you know, getting involved in
that work, right, getting involved in the things. You know,
we are trying to build and work towards and organized
towards a world that is uh, you know what we
what we say in our mission right like more humane
and less hostile place for black people and all people.
(24:32):
And in doing that right, there is so much possibility
and so many actions to take. We need people to
you know, make demands. I'll give an example in the
news today is like twenty three and meters going out
of business and I don't know for sure because they're
you know, a private company, not required you know, to
(24:54):
provide any type of transparency. But something tells me that
perhaps disproportionately black people people are more perhaps likely to
have engaged in one of these DNA services trying to
trace their ancestry and trying to find you know, family
and history and you know, figuring where we go back
to come from. And you know that that uh is
(25:17):
perhaps not based on nothing. You know, we see, uh,
what's the show on PBS, you know, on the like
Ancestral Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
You're talking about Yeah, tell everybody who owned them, who
own their grandparents or whatever exactly, yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:30):
And do that through DNA, right, But for all of
those that have given their DNA to this company, you know,
trying to figure out their ancestry and their familial lines
when they're going out of business, everybody should be alarmed
about what happens to that DNA, where does it go?
And right now, you know, some of the people are
passing resources of well, California you know, allows folks to
(25:50):
demand that they're you know, data and their DNA be deleted.
And that's great. It is great that California has that
protection for individuals and also why we need broader regulation
about how these companies handle personal you know data, because
it can't be up to somebody seeing a random post
on X or receiving a random text or you know,
clicking on something a news break to figure out that
(26:11):
this is even happening, like companies should have. Regulation should
require an affirmative obligation of what happens when these companies
go out of business, of what happens when there's changes
in ownership of what happens you know, to their data
that allow people to be more proactively protected as opposed
to every man for themselves go you know, try to
(26:32):
see you get in where you can fit in, you know,
protect yourself. And so we're engaged in those types of fights.
We've relaunched a Black Tech Agenda that not only touches
on data privacy, but a number you know of other fronts.
You know, touches on the ways in which the proliferation
of AI is undermining our future, like from an environmental perspective,
(26:54):
how it's you know, undermining a lot of labor rights
and organization. You know, that touches on it's needed in
this moment for civic education to engage and live in
a digital world. You know, when years ago, when computers
were being you know introduced white people, you know, coding,
and black kids were being told we need to learn
how to type. Now they've moved on to AI and
(27:16):
we're being told we need to you know, learn how
to code. Right, And we're not going to code ourselves
to justice, and we're not going to in the same
way that we're not going to mentor ourselves out of oppression, right.
We actually need systemic change and solutions, and so we
are fighting on multiple fronts. I say all that to
say we are fighting on multiple fronts in ways that
I think are super energizing, exciting and like really laying
(27:38):
out a clear uh to me, what is a compelling
vision for a different future and how to make different
choices as a nation and you know, as a people
for the world we want to live in.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
Poorscha, I first want to say thank you for just
making time for us. These conversations are so much more
important than we realize. I think a lot of our constituents,
a lot of our friends, a lot of our colleagues
are dealing with this combination of anger, frustration, and hopelessness,
and we turn out to be the voices that they trust.
(28:11):
And we know this because people walk up to us
and tell us, you know, we are more necessary now
than we were.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
A few months ago.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
And as hard as it is to accept the gravity
of that statement, we've heard it enough times to know
that it's true. So someone like yourself making time to
talk to us and just inspire us, because even we
have those days where we're looking around like the sky
is falling and we have no idea what to do next.
(28:41):
How can we support you? Where do we follow you?
Where do we look for you? If we want to
get in the support Porsche business. If we want to
be your brother, get the book, guards and allies, and
we want more people to read this book.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
Tell us, tell us and tell listeners where they can
find you.
Speaker 3 (29:00):
Yes, I mean you can always find me a color
of Change dot org right like feel like go, you know,
join in. We are on some of the platforms we
campaign against, and so you can also find us on
X like on Instagram, on Facebook, where our people are frankly,
(29:20):
you know, on the in the corners of the interwebs.
The one thing I will say in terms, I'm so
happy and like appreciative of the opportunity to be here.
And I would say it is, you know, folks like y'all,
and you know, shows like this that are how we
are going to get our people back. That won't happen
talking to people, you know through the New York Times
(29:41):
and the Washington Post like that just isn't where our
folks are. And so it is, you know, ya y'all
play such an important role in the ecosystem. Yeah, I know,
I've said ecosystem a thousand times, but it is such
an important role in any way, you know, to be
supportive to you know, engage to let folks know about
our work keep people informed and let people know how
(30:02):
to get engaged. Glad to be able to do so well.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
We just followed you, We sent you a message, so
we are definitely going to lock in you know. We
we would love to have you back on this show.
We'd love to have you on any one of our
other shows or all of them. We'd love to continue
to build with you. This is a moment where we
are you know, We've always been about you know, solidarity
(30:31):
and kind of galvanizing all of this energy, you know
from folks who want to make the world more equitable
for all of us. But now it's not just a
nice thought. Now it's kind of mission critical. We kind
of need each other more than everything. So we'll definitely
do our part. As I mentioned, we're following you. Our
(30:52):
hope is that we can continue these conversations moving forward.
But for now, you know, I just want to say
thank you on behalf of me and Q and Chris
and all of us here at the Black Information Network.
Thank you very much for coming on to share your
time and your your brilliance, and you know the work
that you have done, the work that your organization has done,
(31:12):
the work that you are doing work you continue to do.
It's a joy, it's an honor. And you know, count
us among you know your brothers. You know when you
need we need a little extra on this side of
the world and the media side of the world or whatever,
because we got the bullhorn still too, and the batteries
do work, so we can hit the ground. Any sign
right once again, Today the.
Speaker 3 (31:32):
Day of Action and so any you know, anyway, if
you can highlight their events going on across the country.
Color of Change is you know, one of the sponsors
of that day of action. It's really about hands off
our medicaid, hands off our student loans, sure, hands off
our healthcare, like hands off food for our children, and
hands off snap. And so if you can amplify that
(31:55):
gets to attend and hopefully turn out that be wonderful.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
Oh we are all over it. Don't worry about that.
That's kind of what we do. We do believe in
direct action around here. So I'll leave you to interpret
that for your own purposes. But again that is a
core belief around these parts. So again, thank you so much.
Once again. Today's guest is the managing director of Color
of Change, civil rights attorney Portia Alan Kyle. This has
(32:23):
been a production of the Black Information Network. Today's show
is produced by Chris Thompson. Have some thoughts you'd like
to share, use the red microphone talkback feature on the
iHeartRadio app. While you're there, be sure to hit subscribe
and download all of our episodes. I'm your host Ramsey's
Jaw on all social media. I am q Ward on
all social media as well. And join us tomorrow as
(32:44):
we share our news with our voice from our perspective
right here on the Black Information Network Daily Podcast
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