April 14, 2025 • 19 mins
On today's program, Ramses Ja and Q Ward discuss Costco's decision to support DEI and its impact on their bottom line.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Sometimes we're just as shocked or moved or energized by
the news we cover as anyone would be, but by
the time we share it, our initial reaction has settled
a bit. But for these stories, we want you to
learn about the news at the same time, we do.
Welcome to another installment of and don't know not you know?
Speaker 2 (00:26):
All right, So.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
For this installment of if you don't know, now you know,
came across a headline, haven't opened it yet, and Q
doesn't even know the headline, but I came across the headline,
It says Costco's foot traffic increases for the thirteenth week
after reaffirming THEI and I thought, that's just the breath
(00:52):
of fresh air that we need, So here we go. This,
of course, is from the Black Information Network and you're
welcome to check out the full article at bianews dot com.
Costco has recorded thirteen consecutive weeks of increased foot traffic
as it reaffirms its commitment to DEI. According to Retail Brew,
Costco's increased foot traffic reached the thirteen week mark during
(01:14):
the week of March seventeen. Unlike Target, Amazon, Walmart, and
other major retailers, Costco moved to uphold its DEI initiatives
amid attack attacks and pressure against such programs and policies
from the Trump administration. Costco's Board of directors requested earlier
this year for its shareholders to vote against a proposal
from the National Center for Public Policy Research to dismantle
(01:36):
its DEI programs.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Quote.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
Our success at Costco Wholesale has been built on service
to our critical stakeholders, employees, members, and suppliers. Our efforts
around diversity, equity and inclusion follow our code of ethics
for our employees. These efforts are built around inclusion, having
all of our employees feel valued and respected, the board
previously wrote in a message. They go on to say, quote,
(01:59):
our efforts at diversity, equity and inclusion remind and reinforce
with everyone at our company the importance of creating opportunities
for all. We believe that these efforts enhance our capacity
to attract and retain employees will help our business succeed.
This capacity is critical because we owe our success to
are now over three hundred thousand employees around the globe.
(02:21):
Over ninety eight percent of Costco's shareholders voted against the
proposal in January, civil rights activist Reverend Al Sharpton encouraged
consumers to buycot Costco after its decision to uphold DEI quote,
we are planning to release a boycott list in the
coming days, Sharpton previously said, goes on to say, quote,
but in the interim, we are going to do a buycot,
which means we are going to support those who support diversity.
(02:45):
So yeah, this, I think this jives with some of
the things that I've seen online, which I haven't gone
on to confirm, but you know I've seen it, and
this sort of drives with it that Target has perhaps
lost foot traffic of these past thirteen weeks. But in
(03:06):
any case or a company that this tells me that
you know, it is possible to win with you know,
being inclusive, that it makes sense when you think about it.
But you know, what I will commit to is that
it's possible to win. And the other thing is that
this shows me that it's not illegal. And I know
(03:27):
that you.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
Said this a lot cute.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
It's like, well, these people, just all these corporations just
bent the need without even needing to. They started doing
it before he was actually in office. But I figured
somehow that they were preparing themselves for some sort of
law or some somehow this would have been illegal. Like,
you know, they're really crafty on that side when they're
(03:50):
trying to roll out their divisive agenda, right, and you
know they've been successful on many fronts, and you know
they have the Supreme Court in their corner, so you
know why not, right, But Costco's still going strong. It
is not yet illegal to be inclusive and to seek
(04:11):
out equitable opportunities for marginalized groups. It's not yet illegal.
And again they would have to be very crafty. But
I still don't know if it's possible to tell a
business how to conduct itself, if indeed they can make
a case that they draw value from having a diverse workforce, right,
(04:32):
And so at present, Costco is still doing what they
they said they were going to do. They're doing what
they've committed to doing, and it's not illegal because they're
doing it. And so that puts I think an even
bigger black eye on the Walmarts and the Targets and
the Amazons of the world, because if Costco's doing this
and it's not illegal, that means that all those companies
to your point, to your earlier point that you make
(04:53):
you all those companies just did it, perhaps because they
wanted to, not because they needed to. And so bravo
to Costco, and shame on you to everyone else. I
know we've kind of already been in that holding pattern,
but this, you know, suggests to me that that is.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
More true or truer than I originally know.
Speaker 4 (05:14):
Your thoughts, First and foremost, you are such a kind journalist,
Like you give the most graceful, full hearted benefit of
the doubt, and like take this position of just it's
it's a it's a it's a marvel to witness. Could
(05:36):
your brother be angry man?
Speaker 1 (05:39):
And and.
Speaker 4 (05:40):
You talk about these stories from such a like calm
and comfortable position, and it's like journalistically centered and not
neutral because neutral is cowardice, but just kind in a
way that I just can't. You said that it's possible
(06:01):
to be successful with diversity, like that was a question
we didn't know already. It's hard for me to not
laugh out loud when you said, I have to always
remember that my brother is being a journalist first and
then rams this job second. But we've had this conversation.
There's one part of this is just one part of
(06:22):
this feels like a rerun. The other part feels like
we're not giving it enough credit. Right, So the rerun
part is all of these companies preemptively bent the need.
The Trump administration has not yet made it illegal for
private business to run how they want to run. So
all these corporations, especially the mega successful ones like the
(06:44):
Amazons of the world where they have the second or
third richest person in the history of Earth that owns
the place it just had enough money to just ignore it.
They didn't have to take a stance against it. They
didn't have to preemptively in the need to the idea
of exing out diversity either. Now, like universities and you
(07:05):
know federal businesses that draw the money that they use
to pay their employees from the federal government, I still
frown at them, but they kind of don't have a
choice even though preemptive, they see what's coming. Right, So
when you see public universities that get federal funding getting
rid of DEI, I think in a lot of those cases,
(07:28):
if you research hard enough, where if you follow those
stories after the headline, you'll realize they change DEI.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
To some other three words that mean the same thing. Right.
Speaker 4 (07:40):
Some of these places are not bending the knee trying
to figure out a way to still exist in this
new world. But these corporations are bending the knee. They're
going They're making public announcements and going out of their
way to make sure that this new administration knows like, hey, hey, president, sir,
you know whatever you say, sir.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
And it was a really, really weak and cowardice.
Speaker 4 (08:02):
Thing to see these these very very wealthy people who
had enough power and enough autonomy to not just give
up like that give up because of that. I don't
think we're making a big enough deal about a place
like Costco just simply saying I'm sorry, we're not going
to do that. Yeah, and thirteen weeks of improvement for
(08:25):
a company that was already successful is a massive deal deal,
you know what I mean. So watching these companies because
we don't have to wonder how Target's doing. That's public
record tooo Google, Target, click news, read the headlines, doing awesome.
And now because of you know, the current administration's decisions,
(08:47):
most companies are hurting bad. A lot of rich private
citizens that con that contributed to you know, the president's
campaign are hurting bad, and public saying So now there
are those who are delusionist members of the colde who
will find a way to spend it as a positive
no matter what happens and no matter what he does.
(09:09):
But there are some sensible, even if conservative, right wing
people that are hurt by the decisions that he's making
and are saying it out loud. Even those who were
most loud about electing him and most loud about supporting
him and donated hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars
to his campaign are saying out loud like, yeah, that
last decision hurt even me, and I am ensure how
(09:32):
I feel about that.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
So it's refreshing news a lot of the.
Speaker 4 (09:40):
Supposedly refreshing news that we've had to try to grasp
onto over the past few months.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
I haven't really felt great about it.
Speaker 4 (09:47):
It's been like, Okay, I guess we can try to
spin that into a positive, but it's too small to matter.
This is a bigger deal than I think we're making
it out to be, because even you know, I was
both encouraged and discouraged by Tim Cook because Apple held
true to their DEI policies as well. They even doubled
down on it but here he is standing with the man.
(10:08):
So it was just a really kind of weird I
was conflicted trying to figure out how to feel about that.
Because another massive retail company, the largest in the history
of the world, you know, doubling down to the people
that work there at minimum that we're going to stand
with you and stand by you. But then again their
CEO standing but behind that man as he's inaugurated, you know,
(10:29):
kind of sends a mixed signal.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
I'm in a bit of a.
Speaker 4 (10:34):
Kind of permanent, unhappy state, so I can't emote celebratory
right now. But my logical mind, not my heart, is
saying that this is a bigger win then we're giving
it credit.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
For and and we'll get you out of there. You know,
you can't. You don't.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
You don't belong in that state. So so we'll we'll
we'll figure it out eventually, but for now, just hanging there.
But I think that what this shows me is that
this is why you're saying it's a bigger deal than
we're making it out to be, is because this is
something that we can replicate, not just this, but also
with Target. You know, if we focus our dollars and
(11:13):
whatever we can affect capitalism, and there are times when
capitalism is the stronger element in the equation of country racism, capitalism,
you know, politics, you know.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
Et cetera.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
So if we can affect capitalism, then effectively we are
affecting at least one of those levers. And you know,
if we can do so to the degree that is significant,
perhaps like this, and we can do it repeatedly and consistently,
then in the interim between elections, my belief is that
(11:54):
we could conceivably shape candidates, elections, you know, policy, et cetera.
While we are kind of down. It's kind of like
like a jiu jitsu where you're you know, you assume
that you're going to be on the ground. Okay, here's
what we do while we're on the ground, right, how
do we use the ground against us? How do we
let our displeasure be known beyond the ballot box where
(12:17):
we can be you know, disenfranchised, or we can be
you know there, you know, policies that kind of limit
our capacity to express, you know, ourselves in terms of
how we'd like the country shape. And I think that
another thing I want to say just before before we
leave this here, is that.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
It helps. It doesn't sound like like braggy or or
anything like that.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
But I went to school. I went to business school.
I went to one of the best business schools in
the country. And after I graduated, then I went to
get a master's degree. So my undergrad was in marketing
and my master's is in management. Right, And I know
I've said that on the show before, but I had
(13:05):
to sit in all those classes. And I'd imagine a
lot of people that have gone to business school had
to sit in similar classes, and people that work in business,
they had to learn like the real world, like the
practical application of the concepts that I learned in class, right,
And one of the things that they beat into us
in every class, I admitted, I went to school for marketing,
(13:26):
and marketing is where you can make a lot of mistakes,
but every class. You know, I went to school in
a very republican, very red state at the time. Now
Arizona was a little bit more purple. But and you know,
say what you will about Arizona State, but Arizona State University,
the WPKY School of Business is a prominent school in
(13:47):
this country. All of those instructors beat into our heads. Hey,
look Do not create an echo chamber for yourself. I
don't care if you know you're in finance class. Care
if you're an economics class, I don't care. If you're
a marketing class, I don't care. You know what class
you're in, right, don't create an echo chamber for yourself,
(14:08):
because you are going to end up with blind spots
and your competition will sink you, or you will sink
yourself right, and you will not see it coming, and
it will be too late once you've already made the mistake.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
Right, You'll miss.
Speaker 3 (14:21):
Opportunities, you'll make blunders on and on all the things
that can go wrong. Do not make an echo chamber
for yourself, because when you do that again, you're missing
out on diverse perspectives and other walks of life and
other you know, ways that people can, you know, influence
what you create, how you bring it to market, and
(14:43):
how you sustain your customer base, or you know, whatever
it is that you're doing. And so it's interesting to
see how literally every company has forgot what what I
believe to be our fundamental principles of business. You know,
you have to get as much profit as you can
can consistently, and you always have to be looking for
growth opportunities, and so by its very nature, diversity, equity
(15:07):
and inclusion.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
Would help support businesses toward that end.
Speaker 3 (15:12):
Now again, I will say that, you know, for the
missteps that have happened perhaps in academics or you know
in other areas, you know, ideas need time to grow,
They need time to make their mistakes and learn from
it and so forth, just like people, just like anything.
You know, you start something that's well intentioned, give it
time to make its mistakes, give it time to find
(15:33):
its stumbling blocks. You don't just say, oh, that's a
bad idea after six months, especially if you had hundreds
of years of creating racist infrastructure that supports the economic
inequalities that you know we're seeing in this country today.
You give diversity, equity and inclusion initiatives a little bit
of time to take root and to learn and grow.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
Right.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
But what I've seen with all these other companies is
I think, again say it, you know, you're you're I
think you're right. Q. They just kind of bent the knee,
perhaps because they just didn't want to do it. And
that's what makes this way worse in my opinion, and
that's what makes Costco seem so much more like an
(16:16):
ally because it's easy to be an ally when everybody
around you is doing that, But it's tough to be
an ally when you're like, no, this will be on
and I see, I see Costco doing that, and so
I don't I already know that I'm not buying from
none of these places anyway.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
I'm just like that.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
But I know for a lot of people, you know,
it's another point that you've made many times on the shows.
For a lot of people, it's very, very challenging to
decide where they're going to shop. There are a lot
of people in this country, especially people without fiscal resources.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
That are substantial.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
You're kind of stuck with, Okay, that's the store we
go to because it's the closest one that I got
to take the bus there when I get my kids
from daycare there, or it's the cheapest or the cheap there.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
You go.
Speaker 3 (16:56):
Yeah, so you know they're going to a dollar General
to get their food for the week or you know
something like that, right, So you know that's not about them.
But for those of us that can drive an extra
couple of blocks to support a costco, to support a
Kroger because that's where my commitment is.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
Kroger is.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
They've also upheld their DEI too, and all the associated
stores with Kroger. I just go to Kroger. I haven't
stepped foot since our boycotts. I haven't stepped foot in
any other store to spend money. I actually ended up
going to a I think I went to like a
Walmart to get a refund for some money that I
had spent because I still had a receipt. But yeah,
I'm not stepping foot in any of them stores because
(17:38):
like it's like I said in a previous episode, it
costs more than the money I'm spending. It costs my dignity.
It costs you know, Like for me, I know full
well that ancestors of mine, they lived very short, very
hard lives, and they died in often very traumatic ways
because of racism. Barbit for me to that's my actual
(18:00):
dollars into a system of racism when there are people
in my past who have lived, fought and died under
oppressive regimes and died fighting for the world to be
a better place for me to live in, you know
what I mean? And so I just know better, So
I'm not going to Walmart, and I already know I'm
not going to Target Target either, and Amazon. I don't
(18:21):
need nothing from there. I go to eBay and that's
how I feel.
Speaker 4 (18:24):
So it's an interesting thing watching the boxing match between
capitalism and racism. Yeah, because one doesn't always Wincism doesn't
always win, but neither does capitalism.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
Yeah, you're right.
Speaker 4 (18:35):
We've watched people go against their own fiscal interest to
uphold racism, and then you know, sometimes that capital loss
is so great that the table's turned.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
So so we shall see. Yeah, we shall see. I
like that.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
So anyway, I would love for you to, as always
share your thoughts with us. You can do so using
the red microphone talk back feature on the iHeartRadio app,
or you can hit on all social media at Ramsey's jaw.
Speaker 4 (19:02):
I am Qward on all social media as well, and
until we hear from you face.
Speaker 5 (19:09):
This has been a production of the Black Information Network.
Today's show is produced by Chris Thompson. Have some thoughts
you'd like to share, use the red microphone talkback feature
on the iHeartRadio app. While you're there, be sure to
hit subscribe and download all.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
Of our episodes. I am your host. Ramsey's jaw on
all social media.
Speaker 4 (19:25):
I am Qward on all social media as well, and
join us tomorrow as we
Speaker 5 (19:29):
Share our news with our voice from our perspective right
here on the Black Information Network The Daily podcast
Sometimes we're just as shocked or moved or energized by
the news we cover as anyone would be, but by
the time we share it, our initial reaction has settled
a bit. But for these stories, we want you to
learn about the news at the same time, we do.
Welcome to another installment of and don't know not you know?
Speaker 2 (00:26):
All right, So.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
For this installment of if you don't know, now you know,
came across a headline, haven't opened it yet, and Q
doesn't even know the headline, but I came across the headline,
It says Costco's foot traffic increases for the thirteenth week
after reaffirming THEI and I thought, that's just the breath
(00:52):
of fresh air that we need, So here we go. This,
of course, is from the Black Information Network and you're
welcome to check out the full article at bianews dot com.
Costco has recorded thirteen consecutive weeks of increased foot traffic
as it reaffirms its commitment to DEI. According to Retail Brew,
Costco's increased foot traffic reached the thirteen week mark during
(01:14):
the week of March seventeen. Unlike Target, Amazon, Walmart, and
other major retailers, Costco moved to uphold its DEI initiatives
amid attack attacks and pressure against such programs and policies
from the Trump administration. Costco's Board of directors requested earlier
this year for its shareholders to vote against a proposal
from the National Center for Public Policy Research to dismantle
(01:36):
its DEI programs.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Quote.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
Our success at Costco Wholesale has been built on service
to our critical stakeholders, employees, members, and suppliers. Our efforts
around diversity, equity and inclusion follow our code of ethics
for our employees. These efforts are built around inclusion, having
all of our employees feel valued and respected, the board
previously wrote in a message. They go on to say, quote,
(01:59):
our efforts at diversity, equity and inclusion remind and reinforce
with everyone at our company the importance of creating opportunities
for all. We believe that these efforts enhance our capacity
to attract and retain employees will help our business succeed.
This capacity is critical because we owe our success to
are now over three hundred thousand employees around the globe.
(02:21):
Over ninety eight percent of Costco's shareholders voted against the
proposal in January, civil rights activist Reverend Al Sharpton encouraged
consumers to buycot Costco after its decision to uphold DEI quote,
we are planning to release a boycott list in the
coming days, Sharpton previously said, goes on to say, quote,
but in the interim, we are going to do a buycot,
which means we are going to support those who support diversity.
(02:45):
So yeah, this, I think this jives with some of
the things that I've seen online, which I haven't gone
on to confirm, but you know I've seen it, and
this sort of drives with it that Target has perhaps
lost foot traffic of these past thirteen weeks. But in
(03:06):
any case or a company that this tells me that
you know, it is possible to win with you know,
being inclusive, that it makes sense when you think about it.
But you know, what I will commit to is that
it's possible to win. And the other thing is that
this shows me that it's not illegal. And I know
(03:27):
that you.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
Said this a lot cute.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
It's like, well, these people, just all these corporations just
bent the need without even needing to. They started doing
it before he was actually in office. But I figured
somehow that they were preparing themselves for some sort of
law or some somehow this would have been illegal. Like,
you know, they're really crafty on that side when they're
(03:50):
trying to roll out their divisive agenda, right, and you
know they've been successful on many fronts, and you know
they have the Supreme Court in their corner, so you
know why not, right, But Costco's still going strong. It
is not yet illegal to be inclusive and to seek
(04:11):
out equitable opportunities for marginalized groups. It's not yet illegal.
And again they would have to be very crafty. But
I still don't know if it's possible to tell a
business how to conduct itself, if indeed they can make
a case that they draw value from having a diverse workforce, right,
(04:32):
And so at present, Costco is still doing what they
they said they were going to do. They're doing what
they've committed to doing, and it's not illegal because they're
doing it. And so that puts I think an even
bigger black eye on the Walmarts and the Targets and
the Amazons of the world, because if Costco's doing this
and it's not illegal, that means that all those companies
to your point, to your earlier point that you make
(04:53):
you all those companies just did it, perhaps because they
wanted to, not because they needed to. And so bravo
to Costco, and shame on you to everyone else. I
know we've kind of already been in that holding pattern,
but this, you know, suggests to me that that is.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
More true or truer than I originally know.
Speaker 4 (05:14):
Your thoughts, First and foremost, you are such a kind journalist,
Like you give the most graceful, full hearted benefit of
the doubt, and like take this position of just it's
it's a it's a it's a marvel to witness. Could
(05:36):
your brother be angry man?
Speaker 1 (05:39):
And and.
Speaker 4 (05:40):
You talk about these stories from such a like calm
and comfortable position, and it's like journalistically centered and not
neutral because neutral is cowardice, but just kind in a
way that I just can't. You said that it's possible
(06:01):
to be successful with diversity, like that was a question
we didn't know already. It's hard for me to not
laugh out loud when you said, I have to always
remember that my brother is being a journalist first and
then rams this job second. But we've had this conversation.
There's one part of this is just one part of
(06:22):
this feels like a rerun. The other part feels like
we're not giving it enough credit. Right, So the rerun
part is all of these companies preemptively bent the need.
The Trump administration has not yet made it illegal for
private business to run how they want to run. So
all these corporations, especially the mega successful ones like the
(06:44):
Amazons of the world where they have the second or
third richest person in the history of Earth that owns
the place it just had enough money to just ignore it.
They didn't have to take a stance against it. They
didn't have to preemptively in the need to the idea
of exing out diversity either. Now, like universities and you
(07:05):
know federal businesses that draw the money that they use
to pay their employees from the federal government, I still
frown at them, but they kind of don't have a
choice even though preemptive, they see what's coming. Right, So
when you see public universities that get federal funding getting
rid of DEI, I think in a lot of those cases,
(07:28):
if you research hard enough, where if you follow those
stories after the headline, you'll realize they change DEI.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
To some other three words that mean the same thing. Right.
Speaker 4 (07:40):
Some of these places are not bending the knee trying
to figure out a way to still exist in this
new world. But these corporations are bending the knee. They're
going They're making public announcements and going out of their
way to make sure that this new administration knows like, hey, hey, president, sir,
you know whatever you say, sir.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
And it was a really, really weak and cowardice.
Speaker 4 (08:02):
Thing to see these these very very wealthy people who
had enough power and enough autonomy to not just give
up like that give up because of that. I don't
think we're making a big enough deal about a place
like Costco just simply saying I'm sorry, we're not going
to do that. Yeah, and thirteen weeks of improvement for
(08:25):
a company that was already successful is a massive deal deal,
you know what I mean. So watching these companies because
we don't have to wonder how Target's doing. That's public
record tooo Google, Target, click news, read the headlines, doing awesome.
And now because of you know, the current administration's decisions,
(08:47):
most companies are hurting bad. A lot of rich private
citizens that con that contributed to you know, the president's
campaign are hurting bad, and public saying So now there
are those who are delusionist members of the colde who
will find a way to spend it as a positive
no matter what happens and no matter what he does.
(09:09):
But there are some sensible, even if conservative, right wing
people that are hurt by the decisions that he's making
and are saying it out loud. Even those who were
most loud about electing him and most loud about supporting
him and donated hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars
to his campaign are saying out loud like, yeah, that
last decision hurt even me, and I am ensure how
(09:32):
I feel about that.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
So it's refreshing news a lot of the.
Speaker 4 (09:40):
Supposedly refreshing news that we've had to try to grasp
onto over the past few months.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
I haven't really felt great about it.
Speaker 4 (09:47):
It's been like, Okay, I guess we can try to
spin that into a positive, but it's too small to matter.
This is a bigger deal than I think we're making
it out to be, because even you know, I was
both encouraged and discouraged by Tim Cook because Apple held
true to their DEI policies as well. They even doubled
down on it but here he is standing with the man.
(10:08):
So it was just a really kind of weird I
was conflicted trying to figure out how to feel about that.
Because another massive retail company, the largest in the history
of the world, you know, doubling down to the people
that work there at minimum that we're going to stand
with you and stand by you. But then again their
CEO standing but behind that man as he's inaugurated, you know,
(10:29):
kind of sends a mixed signal.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
I'm in a bit of a.
Speaker 4 (10:34):
Kind of permanent, unhappy state, so I can't emote celebratory
right now. But my logical mind, not my heart, is
saying that this is a bigger win then we're giving
it credit.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
For and and we'll get you out of there. You know,
you can't. You don't.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
You don't belong in that state. So so we'll we'll
we'll figure it out eventually, but for now, just hanging there.
But I think that what this shows me is that
this is why you're saying it's a bigger deal than
we're making it out to be, is because this is
something that we can replicate, not just this, but also
with Target. You know, if we focus our dollars and
(11:13):
whatever we can affect capitalism, and there are times when
capitalism is the stronger element in the equation of country racism, capitalism,
you know, politics, you know.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
Et cetera.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
So if we can affect capitalism, then effectively we are
affecting at least one of those levers. And you know,
if we can do so to the degree that is significant,
perhaps like this, and we can do it repeatedly and consistently,
then in the interim between elections, my belief is that
(11:54):
we could conceivably shape candidates, elections, you know, policy, et cetera.
While we are kind of down. It's kind of like
like a jiu jitsu where you're you know, you assume
that you're going to be on the ground. Okay, here's
what we do while we're on the ground, right, how
do we use the ground against us? How do we
let our displeasure be known beyond the ballot box where
(12:17):
we can be you know, disenfranchised, or we can be
you know there, you know, policies that kind of limit
our capacity to express, you know, ourselves in terms of
how we'd like the country shape. And I think that
another thing I want to say just before before we
leave this here, is that.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
It helps. It doesn't sound like like braggy or or
anything like that.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
But I went to school. I went to business school.
I went to one of the best business schools in
the country. And after I graduated, then I went to
get a master's degree. So my undergrad was in marketing
and my master's is in management. Right, And I know
I've said that on the show before, but I had
(13:05):
to sit in all those classes. And I'd imagine a
lot of people that have gone to business school had
to sit in similar classes, and people that work in business,
they had to learn like the real world, like the
practical application of the concepts that I learned in class, right,
And one of the things that they beat into us
in every class, I admitted, I went to school for marketing,
(13:26):
and marketing is where you can make a lot of mistakes,
but every class. You know, I went to school in
a very republican, very red state at the time. Now
Arizona was a little bit more purple. But and you know,
say what you will about Arizona State, but Arizona State University,
the WPKY School of Business is a prominent school in
(13:47):
this country. All of those instructors beat into our heads. Hey,
look Do not create an echo chamber for yourself. I
don't care if you know you're in finance class. Care
if you're an economics class, I don't care. If you're
a marketing class, I don't care. You know what class
you're in, right, don't create an echo chamber for yourself,
(14:08):
because you are going to end up with blind spots
and your competition will sink you, or you will sink
yourself right, and you will not see it coming, and
it will be too late once you've already made the mistake.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
Right, You'll miss.
Speaker 3 (14:21):
Opportunities, you'll make blunders on and on all the things
that can go wrong. Do not make an echo chamber
for yourself, because when you do that again, you're missing
out on diverse perspectives and other walks of life and
other you know, ways that people can, you know, influence
what you create, how you bring it to market, and
(14:43):
how you sustain your customer base, or you know, whatever
it is that you're doing. And so it's interesting to
see how literally every company has forgot what what I
believe to be our fundamental principles of business. You know,
you have to get as much profit as you can
can consistently, and you always have to be looking for
growth opportunities, and so by its very nature, diversity, equity
(15:07):
and inclusion.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
Would help support businesses toward that end.
Speaker 3 (15:12):
Now again, I will say that, you know, for the
missteps that have happened perhaps in academics or you know
in other areas, you know, ideas need time to grow,
They need time to make their mistakes and learn from
it and so forth, just like people, just like anything.
You know, you start something that's well intentioned, give it
time to make its mistakes, give it time to find
(15:33):
its stumbling blocks. You don't just say, oh, that's a
bad idea after six months, especially if you had hundreds
of years of creating racist infrastructure that supports the economic
inequalities that you know we're seeing in this country today.
You give diversity, equity and inclusion initiatives a little bit
of time to take root and to learn and grow.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
Right.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
But what I've seen with all these other companies is
I think, again say it, you know, you're you're I
think you're right. Q. They just kind of bent the knee,
perhaps because they just didn't want to do it. And
that's what makes this way worse in my opinion, and
that's what makes Costco seem so much more like an
(16:16):
ally because it's easy to be an ally when everybody
around you is doing that, But it's tough to be
an ally when you're like, no, this will be on
and I see, I see Costco doing that, and so
I don't I already know that I'm not buying from
none of these places anyway.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
I'm just like that.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
But I know for a lot of people, you know,
it's another point that you've made many times on the shows.
For a lot of people, it's very, very challenging to
decide where they're going to shop. There are a lot
of people in this country, especially people without fiscal resources.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
That are substantial.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
You're kind of stuck with, Okay, that's the store we
go to because it's the closest one that I got
to take the bus there when I get my kids
from daycare there, or it's the cheapest or the cheap there.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
You go.
Speaker 3 (16:56):
Yeah, so you know they're going to a dollar General
to get their food for the week or you know
something like that, right, So you know that's not about them.
But for those of us that can drive an extra
couple of blocks to support a costco, to support a
Kroger because that's where my commitment is.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
Kroger is.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
They've also upheld their DEI too, and all the associated
stores with Kroger. I just go to Kroger. I haven't
stepped foot since our boycotts. I haven't stepped foot in
any other store to spend money. I actually ended up
going to a I think I went to like a
Walmart to get a refund for some money that I
had spent because I still had a receipt. But yeah,
I'm not stepping foot in any of them stores because
(17:38):
like it's like I said in a previous episode, it
costs more than the money I'm spending. It costs my dignity.
It costs you know, Like for me, I know full
well that ancestors of mine, they lived very short, very
hard lives, and they died in often very traumatic ways
because of racism. Barbit for me to that's my actual
(18:00):
dollars into a system of racism when there are people
in my past who have lived, fought and died under
oppressive regimes and died fighting for the world to be
a better place for me to live in, you know
what I mean? And so I just know better, So
I'm not going to Walmart, and I already know I'm
not going to Target Target either, and Amazon. I don't
(18:21):
need nothing from there. I go to eBay and that's
how I feel.
Speaker 4 (18:24):
So it's an interesting thing watching the boxing match between
capitalism and racism. Yeah, because one doesn't always Wincism doesn't
always win, but neither does capitalism.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
Yeah, you're right.
Speaker 4 (18:35):
We've watched people go against their own fiscal interest to
uphold racism, and then you know, sometimes that capital loss
is so great that the table's turned.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
So so we shall see. Yeah, we shall see. I
like that.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
So anyway, I would love for you to, as always
share your thoughts with us. You can do so using
the red microphone talk back feature on the iHeartRadio app,
or you can hit on all social media at Ramsey's jaw.
Speaker 4 (19:02):
I am Qward on all social media as well, and
until we hear from you face.
Speaker 5 (19:09):
This has been a production of the Black Information Network.
Today's show is produced by Chris Thompson. Have some thoughts
you'd like to share, use the red microphone talkback feature
on the iHeartRadio app. While you're there, be sure to
hit subscribe and download all.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
Of our episodes. I am your host. Ramsey's jaw on
all social media.
Speaker 4 (19:25):
I am Qward on all social media as well, and
join us tomorrow as we
Speaker 5 (19:29):
Share our news with our voice from our perspective right
here on the Black Information Network The Daily podcast
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