April 21, 2025 • 29 mins
On today's podcast, Hosts Ramses Ja and Q Ward discuss R&B singer NeYo's polyamory lifestyle.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
This is the Black Information Network Daily Podcast, and I'm
your host, Ramsey's Jaw. And sometimes the amount of stories
that make their way to us means that we simply
can't cover everything that comes our way. But from time
to time, a story just stays with me and fill
compelled to share it with you and give you my thoughts.
And now one more thing.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
I'm not forcing anybody to be here. If for whatever
reason you decide to say for you no more, the
door is never locked. You have permission to go on
about your business. I don't want anybody to think that
I'm manipulating these women into doing something they don't want
to do. Everyone that is here is here by choice.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
Absolutely, they made the decision that right there was the voice,
the one and only Neo, giving folks some insight into his.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Romantic life, some personal details and how he navigates a
polyamorous relationship with four women. And you know, normally we
don't cover topics like this. This isn't really you know,
where our conversations go. But every time Neo speaks on
(01:17):
his relationship, it like whips up a ton of comments
and a ton of interactions from people who are either
for this type of relationship or opposed to it, and
you know, we got some interesting takes, but I thought
(01:38):
it was a worthwhile conversation to have, and of course
we would like to get your feedback listening to us today. Now,
I recognize that that was just kind of a small
introduction to Neo and his his polyamorous relationships. So for
(01:58):
folks who have not been watching this develop on social
media clips, I'm going to share a bit from iHeart
dot com. These words are by Tony Centeno, who is
a friend of the show.
Speaker 4 (02:13):
All Right.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
Neo is opening up about how he makes a polyamorous
relationship with four women work and what his family thinks
about his new lifestyle. During an interview Angie Martinez debut
April tenth, the Grammy Award winning singer said he's never
been happier with his four girlfriends. He recalled how he
used to follow the societal norms of one man, one wife,
(02:35):
but now he claims those labels never worked for him.
You know, is currently living in his brutal honesty era,
and he refuses to apologize for it. Quote. I've always
been a free spirit. I thrive off of being able
to move free, he said. I'm vibrating higher. This is
not for everyone. The only way it works is with
(02:57):
brutal and painful honesty, no punches. Neo has been a
lot more upfront about how his love life, especially with
his family works. He explained how his own mother and
children have met all of his girlfriends. He said his
kids love them and his mother approves of them. In fact,
(03:17):
he said his mom personally vetted all four of them.
Like every relationship, Neo admitted there are some downsides. He
said he's able to date other women, but his girlfriends
must be exclusive to him. In addition, he also has
to keep all lines of communication open and established boundaries
among his partners, especially if there are issues within the tribe.
(03:39):
Quote I want you here, I don't need you here.
The most important thing here is my happiness.
Speaker 4 (03:44):
He said.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
It was on to say if a girl is acting up,
she gotta go okay. This is the tone of the article.
Unfortunately doesn't necessarily capture the spirit in which you know
Neo had the conversation. But I do understand for folks
(04:08):
that look at this like it's unnatural that he's taking
advantage of these women, or there's a cult, or any
any of the number of comments that we've seen trying
to you know, assess his situation. I implore all all
of those folks to actually watch the entire interview, because
(04:29):
he does regard, you know, his partners highly. You know,
he regards them as human beings who are able to
make their own decisions and so forth, And so we
don't want to cast this in and an unflattering light.
And I also want to disclose before we get too
far down this rabbit hole, that I am the product
(04:55):
of a polygamist relationship that is one man, many wives,
not girlfriends, and I also have participated in polyamorous relationships.
And so my hope is that I'll be able to
bring some perspective to you know, folks that take issue
with this, and to fortify some of the points that
(05:20):
Neil was trying to make. Now, before I jump off
that cliff, Q, I know that you and I had
some conversations behind the scenes, especially in regards to the
people that look at a relationship like this and simply
say this is a man tricking a woman a woman
(05:43):
or women into like threesomes and things like this. Right, So,
before I get started, I wanted to get you your
reflections on what we've learned from Neo so far, and
then we'll go from there.
Speaker 5 (06:00):
Well, I can't say that I've learned anything from him.
I think you'd have to spend a little more time
than the article or the interview provides to learn, you know,
what it's actually like to be in a relationship like that.
I think one thing that happens most of the time
is that people decide that the way that I do
(06:21):
things is the way that it's supposed to be done,
and anyone who doesn't do it like I do it
is weird or wrong or in sin or you know.
We have all these different titles that mean the same thing.
I don't like how you do it. I'm not comfortable
with how you do it, so how you do it
is not how it should be done. And just like
(06:43):
every other type of relationship that people can be in,
different lifestyle choices that people make, having not experienced any
of them, it's hard to have an opinion on what
they're doing.
Speaker 4 (06:56):
Now.
Speaker 5 (06:56):
I can have an opinion on what I do, what
i'd like to try, what I don't want to do,
what I don't agree with as a strategy for my
own happiness, But I can't speak on what makes Neo
happy or the young ladies that are in that home
or in that relationship with him. No other things that
he said that confuse me a bit and that kind
of make me say, okay, so then why are you
(07:17):
doing it?
Speaker 4 (07:17):
If that's the case. Like the idea that I have
four girlfriends.
Speaker 5 (07:21):
But I still date sounds a lot like just single,
you know, for all that the relationship provides, I'm still
dating other girls outside of my four girlfriends seems a
bit what's the word I'm looking for gluttonous? But to
(07:41):
each its own, because the only people that have to
be okay with the decisions being made in that relationship
are the people in the relationship. Those young ladies are
okay with the rules that say, hey, I can date
whoever I want. You all can only date me if
he says that out loud and the women volunteer for that.
Speaker 4 (07:59):
Who are any of us to have a problem with it?
Speaker 5 (08:01):
As long as these are not girls that he met
when they were you know, too young to be of
impressionable does not yet, which does not seem like the case.
Speaker 4 (08:11):
They seem like.
Speaker 5 (08:12):
Fully grown women with a fully grown man. You know,
people can share their opinions and have them. But you know,
it's it's tough for me to have a strong, bold
opinion on someone else's relationship that I've never spent a
day in.
Speaker 4 (08:29):
You know, it's there's there's.
Speaker 5 (08:31):
Plenty of ways that people do relationships that people do love,
that people do romance, that people do friendship that I
don't agree with.
Speaker 4 (08:39):
But in this case, the.
Speaker 5 (08:43):
Key differentiator for me is that what he if what
he said is true, that it's brutal, difficult honesty, then
it's really nobody's business. You know, if all the things
and clearly had he not laid those things on the
table after the Andreie Martinez interview, they're on the table now,
you know what I mean.
Speaker 4 (09:01):
Like, even if you hadn't shared.
Speaker 5 (09:04):
Those rules or those parameters with the young ladies, now
that you've said them out loud to you know, maybe
millions of people, it's going to get back to them.
And I'm assuming everybody is okay with what they've established
as a collective, as a unit, as a tribe. And
it's kind of you know, how is it anyone else's business?
Once their door closes or once it opens, they're all
(09:27):
there by choice, knowing everything that's in front of them
if they're happy, because I'm gonna have to tell you, man,
happy is not an easy thing. Yeah, and it's not
even about them seeking happiness from one another. If they
are happy in their skin and in the relationship that
they're in, kudos to them, because lots of us have
(09:47):
been in traditional relationships exactly the way the Bible says,
are exactly the way our parents said, or exactly the
way our parents did it unhappy for years. So if
they found happy and the way they live their lives,
however that may be, and not just Neo and his girlfriends,
to anyone, if you were able to go out in
the world and find someone or or many someones that
(10:10):
love you and you're happy and they're happy, you guys
get to share your happiness and share your lives and
it works for everybody. Do it because it's not like
there's this other way that we all know works and
that leads to you know, prosperous, perpetual happiness for everyone involved.
Look at the divorce rate for traditional Christian you know, marriages,
(10:34):
for traditional relationships of any form. You know, everything from mental, physical,
and emotional abuse to in fidelity to all the things
that people deem wrong at whatever level they think. So,
you know, there's no one there's no one way that's
been proven to be the right way that leads to
happiness for all involved. So if you find a way
(10:55):
that works for you, whoever you are listening, go with yeah.
And what everyone else's opinion is that that should matter
very little.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
Well, I'm going to circle back to what you said
about relationships and you know, like like the success rate.
So let's do some rudimentary, very very basic math here.
(11:27):
I have been very fortunate in my life where I
have had perhaps more romantic interest than I maybe I deserve,
you know, because of the type of work that I do.
You know, usually my name and reputation precedes me. I'm
(11:49):
always presented to every room I walk in in the
most flattering light possible. Usually my name is on the flyer,
on the screens behind me or something like that. I
have a microphone. I'm able to share my thoughts.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
Right.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
So I say this to say that I've had perhaps
more access to potential partners than most folks, and as
a result of that, I probably have a little bit
more experience than the average person. I definitely can say
that let's go with in this country, the average number
(12:27):
of sexual partners is ten.
Speaker 4 (12:30):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
Now I believe that's more or less accurate, but we're
going to use that number to suggest that the average
number of relationships is ten. Okay, Again, this is rudimentary math.
Relationships are delineated from friendships in this example based on
(12:52):
whether or not they turn physical, right. And so if
a person has ten partners that they become physical with
throughout their lifetime, on average, we will call that ten relationships.
And for the people that do end up married, they
will typically marry one person would again rudimentary math, and
(13:16):
so you immediately have a ninety percent failure rate for
a monogamous traditional relationship. Right, So if you meet a
person off the street, you're if we determine success, a
successful relationship to mean matching burial plots at the end
(13:36):
of your life, right, you got a ninety percent chance
that if you meet someone off the street, you're not
going to make it there.
Speaker 5 (13:44):
Okay, Before you move on to PRAM, where does that
ninety percent number come from?
Speaker 1 (13:50):
So again, ten percent of well, there's there's ten, an
average of ten sexual partners per person in the United States,
and we're we're making an assumptionary again rudimentary math, that
one of those partners is someone that you'll marry. So
(14:10):
nine out of ten you know you're going to not
marry and as a result, you don't end up with
those matching burial plots. So there's the ninety percent.
Speaker 4 (14:19):
I just wanted to listener to be able to follow, gotcha.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
Okay, So now we are at marriage. Okay, And as
you mentioned, marriage has a fifty percent divorce rate. It's
been true for some time.
Speaker 4 (14:34):
Might be a little higher than that now.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
Okay, but again, rudimentary math. We're not going to push
it too far one way or the other. This is
just kind of thumb in it. Now we have a
ninety five percent failure rate or relationships traditional Christian, monogamous,
whatever relationships, And to be fair, Christian relationships, I've never
(14:57):
encountered anything that says, you know, one way or the other,
but failure rate. And then you mentioned that there are
other factors, right, and so yes, matching burial plots could
very well mean a successful relationship. But we know that
there are people who will stay together through abuse, through infidelity,
(15:22):
through you know whatever, because they don't have the means
to leave a relationship, they don't have the resources to
sustain themselves if they were able to leave the relationship,
et cetera. Right, So, just for fun, let's just add
another couple of percent there people that are absolutely miserable
(15:43):
and trapped in a relationship that they would leave. They
just simply can't. Right, So now we're at, let's call
it ninety seven percent failure rate or relationships right in
the way that we think of them. So if a
person came up to me off the street and says, ramses,
I would like to be in a relationship with you,
(16:04):
an exclusive relationship, you and me, let's you know whatever,
I could roll the dice there and see what happens.
Or since it's actually me and I've had a number
of relationships, and I don't like what relationships come with,
especially toward the end where oftentimes you know, I've only
(16:27):
dated women, so I have to disclose that. And so
my view of relationships might be biased because I've only
dated one type of human. But in my experienced relationships,
the way they end it may not be based in
a shared reality all the time, Okay, a lot of times.
(16:47):
In order for people, the people I date are always women,
so I will say women, I'm not saying that as
a general term. I'm just saying the women in my
story I need to be very careful, will often rewrite
the story of us so that I am a worse
(17:08):
version of myself than I actually am, because it allows
her a little bit more space to heal. In other words,
she's not going to we're not going to break up,
and she's like, oh my god, I love this man,
he was everything to me. I messed up, and then
just go on with her life. That's not how I've
(17:28):
seen the stories go. Often enough, at the end of
a relationship, people can string together, like, you know, the
worst moments, ignoring all of the happy moments, because for
the most part, most relationships more good times than bad
that I've been in. But they'll string together those unhappy
moments and maybe one or two things at the end
(17:51):
rewrite the whole story, like I can't believe I've been
with you know all these red flags? What else do
you hear? Narcissists, you hear a gas light, You hear
all these terms, right, And they may be true in
other relationships, but I'm speaking about myself, right, And it's
very frustrating. When you kind of see that cycle happen
(18:12):
over and over again in your life, right where you're like, listen, man,
I didn't sign up to this to ruin your life.
Since that's how we're readwriting the story, you know I
would have not signed up for that. So you get
to a point where you're like, you know what, relationships
I don't like how they end, and it's likely that
it's going to end, so let me not engage in
a relationship. Okay, if we want to hang out, you
(18:32):
want to be friends, blah blah blah, that's fine. Relationship
might be a bridge too far because that in my
experience has been finite friends or forever relationships not so much. Right, So,
let's say you get to a point where a person says,
let's say you're sensitive about whether or not a relationship
is successful. You're sensitive about how you are able to
(18:58):
care for a person before, during, and after relationship if
it comes to that, right, You're concerned about how you
are able to show up and how a narrative is
chronicled as far as you're concerned, So you become cautious
about relationships. Listen, I only want to get in a
relationship that feels like it has a better chance than
(19:23):
you know, three percent success rate, and then you look
at the sort of thing that Neo is doing. Now.
Neo has four girlfriends. He says that these girlfriends approached him,
each saying that they wanted to be monogamous with him.
(19:45):
They did not require the same from him in return,
and as a result of relationship developed thusly. He says
that obviously they're all free to go. These are not prisoners,
these are adults. These are people that are concerned. We
have our own little tribe. We move as a unit,
we make decisions together. And if I choose to date
(20:06):
someone else, which I don't be cause for as plenty,
but if I choose to date someone, they all are
aware of it, and I explained to them the merits
of this, you know, endeavor or whatever. So I have
not had that experience, but I have had the experience
of two people approaching me saying that they both wanted
(20:30):
to be in a relationship with me. Out of the
clear blue sklat they two women approach me and they said, hey,
we'd like you to be our man. Okay, And at
the time I really wasn't interested in a relationship, but
they said, you know, They had a very convincing argument.
They said, you know, you do you get twice the benefit,
(20:53):
and you get you have to do half of the lifting, right,
so where you fall short, there's someone to support you.
Where this person falls short, conceivably we would both be
able to support her, right. And they made this argument
about it's how this type of relationship is not so scary.
Speaker 4 (21:11):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
The long and the short of it is that they
convinced me to give it a shot, and I found
that the communication was exactly the way Neo explained it.
It's so refreshing and so honest and so forthright. There's
nothing to hide. You don't even know that you're hiding
things in a monogamous relationship until you end up in
(21:35):
another type of relationship where you realize, oh, I need
to tell this because here in this setting, with this framework,
it's celebrated. And so it's not like you're hiding things
in a monogamous relationship. You're just not volunteering information that's
not relevant. But in a plural relationship that's kind of
part for the course, and critically for me, often at
(21:59):
times I foun in those monogamous relationships that binary that
comes with it. There's one man, one woman, one masculine,
one feminine, and then when it comes time to argue,
when you're facing the end of your relationship, there's one
person who's right, and if that's you, then conceivably the
other person is wrong. Right now, they don't think that
they're wrong. They think you're wrong, and they've chosen that
(22:22):
hill to die on. And of course, if you're right,
you're right, So you're going to die on your hill,
and you retreat to your various corners of I'm right, no,
I'm right, No, I'm right, and you're wrong. No, you're wrong, no,
you're wrong. And in the middle of that there are
cancerous elements that grow, Memories get rewritten, you know, all
(22:47):
kinds of stuff, right, and that binary ultimately splits right
at that fail point. Now, if there is a third person,
like the relationship that I was in, where there are
two people who care about each other and they both
care about me and I care about both of them,
(23:10):
then there's a shared sort of love and support system
in play. And so if two people disagree, there is
a tiebreaker. And this isn't a tiebreaker that you call
in to kind of you know, like a friend that
you tap on the shoulder, or you know, a therapist
or anything. No, this is someone who's actually in that
relationship with you, that actually does care about this person
(23:32):
and does care about you. And so I could see
the merit of a plural relationship being one that has
a different dynamic and that is insulated against that particular
fail point and as a result, has a different strategy
(23:53):
if indeed, success is measured by those matching burial plots.
Now I have to disclose that that real relationship did
not last, nor did any of my monogamous relationships, of course,
because people always want to say, you know, plural relationships
don't last. And you know, I could tell the reason
I left the country to go on tour and traveling
(24:16):
the world, and ultimately it whittled itself down to a
binary again while I was gone, and that didn't work out,
and so when I came back to the country, it
was already kind of splintered. But I was able to
see how a different dynamic is viable for different people
(24:37):
based on their individual sensibilities. Now I want to make
sure I say this last thing. Do I think that
monogamous relationships are the only way No, do I think
that polyamorous relationships are the only way. No, But I
did recognize that for people who have not been in that,
who only come from that perspective that you mentioned, Q,
(24:59):
which is like, this is unnatural, this is a sin,
this is a cult, this is blah blahh whatever. It's
hard for those people to know how this works and
how this can address different individuals sensibilities if they have
(25:23):
not experienced that themselves. And far be it from me
to judge Neo for being in a polyamorous relationship. Far
be it for me to judge President Obama for being,
you know, in a monogamous relationship. I think that if
they work for those people, then so be it. But
(25:44):
for people that have the story written about polyamorous relationships
without having been in one, I think you're right cute
that they're judging people, and they're doing so their judgment
is baseless, often an off, and it is unfair and
short sighted.
Speaker 4 (26:06):
I cannot disagree.
Speaker 5 (26:08):
And some people just don't know any better than to judge. Again,
I don't understand that thing. It's different than me, so
it's wrong, and that's an unfortunate way to view not
just love and relationships with the world.
Speaker 4 (26:27):
There's a lot of that going around these days.
Speaker 5 (26:30):
That thing those people that practice that idea is different
than mine. I don't understand it, so I fear it,
or I hate it, or I judge it. And it's
an unfortunate way to approach life, to approach love, and
to approach the world. So again, there will forever be
things that I have not experienced, so I don't understand,
(26:55):
and I reserve my harsh, extreme judgments of those things.
And I'm fine with expressing that there's just a lot
that I don't know and a lot that I don't understand.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
Yeah, well, for all those people that do that judgment.
Funnily enough, genetically speaking, all of us have the genetic
markers that suggest that our species has tended toward one man,
(27:29):
many women in terms of procreation. And while that might
be inconsistent with faith, culture ideas about what's right and wrong,
without the practice, it is not likely that we would
(27:52):
have even gotten to the point where we are. And so.
Speaker 4 (27:59):
Simple for thought.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
But for all the folks that have a lot to
say about NEO, for all the people who pop up
all the time, and for all the times that this
stuff gets sent to me and you Q about you
know what Neo's talking about. I feel like, you know,
the man has found his way. He's obviously he's providing,
(28:24):
he's he's doing what he's supposed to do, and I see,
I see nothing wrong with that.
Speaker 4 (28:34):
Now.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
I know we're gonna get a lot of comments for
this one, but I'm ready for it. I'm ready because
you know, I shared something this kind of personal, and
that's not the only relationship that I've been in that
was plural, you know, by definition. But you know, I
(28:58):
feel like people might have something to say, and I
guess that's what we signed up for, right, So if
you got something to say, let's hear it. You can
reach out using the red microphone talkback feature on the
iHeartRadio app, or of course, you can hit me on
all social media at Rams's job.
Speaker 4 (29:12):
I am Qward on all social media as well.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
All right, let's talk about it and until we do peace.
This has been a production of the Black Information Network.
Today's show is produced by Chris Thompson. Have some thoughts
you'd like to share, use the red microphone talkback feature
on the iHeartRadio app. While you're there, be sure to
hit subscribing down with all of our episodes, I'm your host,
Ramsey's job on all social media. Join us tomorrow as
(29:36):
we share our news with our voice from our perspective
right here on the Black Information Network Daily Podcast
This is the Black Information Network Daily Podcast, and I'm
your host, Ramsey's Jaw. And sometimes the amount of stories
that make their way to us means that we simply
can't cover everything that comes our way. But from time
to time, a story just stays with me and fill
compelled to share it with you and give you my thoughts.
And now one more thing.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
I'm not forcing anybody to be here. If for whatever
reason you decide to say for you no more, the
door is never locked. You have permission to go on
about your business. I don't want anybody to think that
I'm manipulating these women into doing something they don't want
to do. Everyone that is here is here by choice.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
Absolutely, they made the decision that right there was the voice,
the one and only Neo, giving folks some insight into his.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Romantic life, some personal details and how he navigates a
polyamorous relationship with four women. And you know, normally we
don't cover topics like this. This isn't really you know,
where our conversations go. But every time Neo speaks on
(01:17):
his relationship, it like whips up a ton of comments
and a ton of interactions from people who are either
for this type of relationship or opposed to it, and
you know, we got some interesting takes, but I thought
(01:38):
it was a worthwhile conversation to have, and of course
we would like to get your feedback listening to us today. Now,
I recognize that that was just kind of a small
introduction to Neo and his his polyamorous relationships. So for
(01:58):
folks who have not been watching this develop on social
media clips, I'm going to share a bit from iHeart
dot com. These words are by Tony Centeno, who is
a friend of the show.
Speaker 4 (02:13):
All Right.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
Neo is opening up about how he makes a polyamorous
relationship with four women work and what his family thinks
about his new lifestyle. During an interview Angie Martinez debut
April tenth, the Grammy Award winning singer said he's never
been happier with his four girlfriends. He recalled how he
used to follow the societal norms of one man, one wife,
(02:35):
but now he claims those labels never worked for him.
You know, is currently living in his brutal honesty era,
and he refuses to apologize for it. Quote. I've always
been a free spirit. I thrive off of being able
to move free, he said. I'm vibrating higher. This is
not for everyone. The only way it works is with
(02:57):
brutal and painful honesty, no punches. Neo has been a
lot more upfront about how his love life, especially with
his family works. He explained how his own mother and
children have met all of his girlfriends. He said his
kids love them and his mother approves of them. In fact,
(03:17):
he said his mom personally vetted all four of them.
Like every relationship, Neo admitted there are some downsides. He
said he's able to date other women, but his girlfriends
must be exclusive to him. In addition, he also has
to keep all lines of communication open and established boundaries
among his partners, especially if there are issues within the tribe.
(03:39):
Quote I want you here, I don't need you here.
The most important thing here is my happiness.
Speaker 4 (03:44):
He said.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
It was on to say if a girl is acting up,
she gotta go okay. This is the tone of the article.
Unfortunately doesn't necessarily capture the spirit in which you know
Neo had the conversation. But I do understand for folks
(04:08):
that look at this like it's unnatural that he's taking
advantage of these women, or there's a cult, or any
any of the number of comments that we've seen trying
to you know, assess his situation. I implore all all
of those folks to actually watch the entire interview, because
(04:29):
he does regard, you know, his partners highly. You know,
he regards them as human beings who are able to
make their own decisions and so forth, And so we
don't want to cast this in and an unflattering light.
And I also want to disclose before we get too
far down this rabbit hole, that I am the product
(04:55):
of a polygamist relationship that is one man, many wives,
not girlfriends, and I also have participated in polyamorous relationships.
And so my hope is that I'll be able to
bring some perspective to you know, folks that take issue
with this, and to fortify some of the points that
(05:20):
Neil was trying to make. Now, before I jump off
that cliff, Q, I know that you and I had
some conversations behind the scenes, especially in regards to the
people that look at a relationship like this and simply
say this is a man tricking a woman a woman
(05:43):
or women into like threesomes and things like this. Right, So,
before I get started, I wanted to get you your
reflections on what we've learned from Neo so far, and
then we'll go from there.
Speaker 5 (06:00):
Well, I can't say that I've learned anything from him.
I think you'd have to spend a little more time
than the article or the interview provides to learn, you know,
what it's actually like to be in a relationship like that.
I think one thing that happens most of the time
is that people decide that the way that I do
(06:21):
things is the way that it's supposed to be done,
and anyone who doesn't do it like I do it
is weird or wrong or in sin or you know.
We have all these different titles that mean the same thing.
I don't like how you do it. I'm not comfortable
with how you do it, so how you do it
is not how it should be done. And just like
(06:43):
every other type of relationship that people can be in,
different lifestyle choices that people make, having not experienced any
of them, it's hard to have an opinion on what
they're doing.
Speaker 4 (06:56):
Now.
Speaker 5 (06:56):
I can have an opinion on what I do, what
i'd like to try, what I don't want to do,
what I don't agree with as a strategy for my
own happiness, But I can't speak on what makes Neo
happy or the young ladies that are in that home
or in that relationship with him. No other things that
he said that confuse me a bit and that kind
of make me say, okay, so then why are you
(07:17):
doing it?
Speaker 4 (07:17):
If that's the case. Like the idea that I have
four girlfriends.
Speaker 5 (07:21):
But I still date sounds a lot like just single,
you know, for all that the relationship provides, I'm still
dating other girls outside of my four girlfriends seems a
bit what's the word I'm looking for gluttonous? But to
(07:41):
each its own, because the only people that have to
be okay with the decisions being made in that relationship
are the people in the relationship. Those young ladies are
okay with the rules that say, hey, I can date
whoever I want. You all can only date me if
he says that out loud and the women volunteer for that.
Speaker 4 (07:59):
Who are any of us to have a problem with it?
Speaker 5 (08:01):
As long as these are not girls that he met
when they were you know, too young to be of
impressionable does not yet, which does not seem like the case.
Speaker 4 (08:11):
They seem like.
Speaker 5 (08:12):
Fully grown women with a fully grown man. You know,
people can share their opinions and have them. But you know,
it's it's tough for me to have a strong, bold
opinion on someone else's relationship that I've never spent a
day in.
Speaker 4 (08:29):
You know, it's there's there's.
Speaker 5 (08:31):
Plenty of ways that people do relationships that people do love,
that people do romance, that people do friendship that I
don't agree with.
Speaker 4 (08:39):
But in this case, the.
Speaker 5 (08:43):
Key differentiator for me is that what he if what
he said is true, that it's brutal, difficult honesty, then
it's really nobody's business. You know, if all the things
and clearly had he not laid those things on the
table after the Andreie Martinez interview, they're on the table now,
you know what I mean.
Speaker 4 (09:01):
Like, even if you hadn't shared.
Speaker 5 (09:04):
Those rules or those parameters with the young ladies, now
that you've said them out loud to you know, maybe
millions of people, it's going to get back to them.
And I'm assuming everybody is okay with what they've established
as a collective, as a unit, as a tribe. And
it's kind of you know, how is it anyone else's business?
Once their door closes or once it opens, they're all
(09:27):
there by choice, knowing everything that's in front of them
if they're happy, because I'm gonna have to tell you, man,
happy is not an easy thing. Yeah, and it's not
even about them seeking happiness from one another. If they
are happy in their skin and in the relationship that
they're in, kudos to them, because lots of us have
(09:47):
been in traditional relationships exactly the way the Bible says,
are exactly the way our parents said, or exactly the
way our parents did it unhappy for years. So if
they found happy and the way they live their lives,
however that may be, and not just Neo and his girlfriends,
to anyone, if you were able to go out in
the world and find someone or or many someones that
(10:10):
love you and you're happy and they're happy, you guys
get to share your happiness and share your lives and
it works for everybody. Do it because it's not like
there's this other way that we all know works and
that leads to you know, prosperous, perpetual happiness for everyone involved.
Look at the divorce rate for traditional Christian you know, marriages,
(10:34):
for traditional relationships of any form. You know, everything from mental, physical,
and emotional abuse to in fidelity to all the things
that people deem wrong at whatever level they think. So,
you know, there's no one there's no one way that's
been proven to be the right way that leads to
happiness for all involved. So if you find a way
(10:55):
that works for you, whoever you are listening, go with yeah.
And what everyone else's opinion is that that should matter
very little.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
Well, I'm going to circle back to what you said
about relationships and you know, like like the success rate.
So let's do some rudimentary, very very basic math here.
(11:27):
I have been very fortunate in my life where I
have had perhaps more romantic interest than I maybe I deserve,
you know, because of the type of work that I do.
You know, usually my name and reputation precedes me. I'm
(11:49):
always presented to every room I walk in in the
most flattering light possible. Usually my name is on the flyer,
on the screens behind me or something like that. I
have a microphone. I'm able to share my thoughts.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
Right.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
So I say this to say that I've had perhaps
more access to potential partners than most folks, and as
a result of that, I probably have a little bit
more experience than the average person. I definitely can say
that let's go with in this country, the average number
(12:27):
of sexual partners is ten.
Speaker 4 (12:30):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
Now I believe that's more or less accurate, but we're
going to use that number to suggest that the average
number of relationships is ten. Okay, Again, this is rudimentary math.
Relationships are delineated from friendships in this example based on
(12:52):
whether or not they turn physical, right. And so if
a person has ten partners that they become physical with
throughout their lifetime, on average, we will call that ten relationships.
And for the people that do end up married, they
will typically marry one person would again rudimentary math, and
(13:16):
so you immediately have a ninety percent failure rate for
a monogamous traditional relationship. Right, So if you meet a
person off the street, you're if we determine success, a
successful relationship to mean matching burial plots at the end
(13:36):
of your life, right, you got a ninety percent chance
that if you meet someone off the street, you're not
going to make it there.
Speaker 5 (13:44):
Okay, Before you move on to PRAM, where does that
ninety percent number come from?
Speaker 1 (13:50):
So again, ten percent of well, there's there's ten, an
average of ten sexual partners per person in the United States,
and we're we're making an assumptionary again rudimentary math, that
one of those partners is someone that you'll marry. So
(14:10):
nine out of ten you know you're going to not
marry and as a result, you don't end up with
those matching burial plots. So there's the ninety percent.
Speaker 4 (14:19):
I just wanted to listener to be able to follow, gotcha.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
Okay, So now we are at marriage. Okay, And as
you mentioned, marriage has a fifty percent divorce rate. It's
been true for some time.
Speaker 4 (14:34):
Might be a little higher than that now.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
Okay, but again, rudimentary math. We're not going to push
it too far one way or the other. This is
just kind of thumb in it. Now we have a
ninety five percent failure rate or relationships traditional Christian, monogamous,
whatever relationships, And to be fair, Christian relationships, I've never
(14:57):
encountered anything that says, you know, one way or the other,
but failure rate. And then you mentioned that there are
other factors, right, and so yes, matching burial plots could
very well mean a successful relationship. But we know that
there are people who will stay together through abuse, through infidelity,
(15:22):
through you know whatever, because they don't have the means
to leave a relationship, they don't have the resources to
sustain themselves if they were able to leave the relationship,
et cetera. Right, So, just for fun, let's just add
another couple of percent there people that are absolutely miserable
(15:43):
and trapped in a relationship that they would leave. They
just simply can't. Right, So now we're at, let's call
it ninety seven percent failure rate or relationships right in
the way that we think of them. So if a
person came up to me off the street and says, ramses,
I would like to be in a relationship with you,
(16:04):
an exclusive relationship, you and me, let's you know whatever,
I could roll the dice there and see what happens.
Or since it's actually me and I've had a number
of relationships, and I don't like what relationships come with,
especially toward the end where oftentimes you know, I've only
(16:27):
dated women, so I have to disclose that. And so
my view of relationships might be biased because I've only
dated one type of human. But in my experienced relationships,
the way they end it may not be based in
a shared reality all the time, Okay, a lot of times.
(16:47):
In order for people, the people I date are always women,
so I will say women, I'm not saying that as
a general term. I'm just saying the women in my
story I need to be very careful, will often rewrite
the story of us so that I am a worse
(17:08):
version of myself than I actually am, because it allows
her a little bit more space to heal. In other words,
she's not going to we're not going to break up,
and she's like, oh my god, I love this man,
he was everything to me. I messed up, and then
just go on with her life. That's not how I've
(17:28):
seen the stories go. Often enough, at the end of
a relationship, people can string together, like, you know, the
worst moments, ignoring all of the happy moments, because for
the most part, most relationships more good times than bad
that I've been in. But they'll string together those unhappy
moments and maybe one or two things at the end
(17:51):
rewrite the whole story, like I can't believe I've been
with you know all these red flags? What else do
you hear? Narcissists, you hear a gas light, You hear
all these terms, right, And they may be true in
other relationships, but I'm speaking about myself, right, And it's
very frustrating. When you kind of see that cycle happen
(18:12):
over and over again in your life, right where you're like, listen, man,
I didn't sign up to this to ruin your life.
Since that's how we're readwriting the story, you know I
would have not signed up for that. So you get
to a point where you're like, you know what, relationships
I don't like how they end, and it's likely that
it's going to end, so let me not engage in
a relationship. Okay, if we want to hang out, you
(18:32):
want to be friends, blah blah blah, that's fine. Relationship
might be a bridge too far because that in my
experience has been finite friends or forever relationships not so much. Right, So,
let's say you get to a point where a person says,
let's say you're sensitive about whether or not a relationship
is successful. You're sensitive about how you are able to
(18:58):
care for a person before, during, and after relationship if
it comes to that, right, You're concerned about how you
are able to show up and how a narrative is
chronicled as far as you're concerned, So you become cautious
about relationships. Listen, I only want to get in a
relationship that feels like it has a better chance than
(19:23):
you know, three percent success rate, and then you look
at the sort of thing that Neo is doing. Now.
Neo has four girlfriends. He says that these girlfriends approached him,
each saying that they wanted to be monogamous with him.
(19:45):
They did not require the same from him in return,
and as a result of relationship developed thusly. He says
that obviously they're all free to go. These are not prisoners,
these are adults. These are people that are concerned. We
have our own little tribe. We move as a unit,
we make decisions together. And if I choose to date
(20:06):
someone else, which I don't be cause for as plenty,
but if I choose to date someone, they all are
aware of it, and I explained to them the merits
of this, you know, endeavor or whatever. So I have
not had that experience, but I have had the experience
of two people approaching me saying that they both wanted
(20:30):
to be in a relationship with me. Out of the
clear blue sklat they two women approach me and they said, hey,
we'd like you to be our man. Okay, And at
the time I really wasn't interested in a relationship, but
they said, you know, They had a very convincing argument.
They said, you know, you do you get twice the benefit,
(20:53):
and you get you have to do half of the lifting, right,
so where you fall short, there's someone to support you.
Where this person falls short, conceivably we would both be
able to support her, right. And they made this argument
about it's how this type of relationship is not so scary.
Speaker 4 (21:11):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
The long and the short of it is that they
convinced me to give it a shot, and I found
that the communication was exactly the way Neo explained it.
It's so refreshing and so honest and so forthright. There's
nothing to hide. You don't even know that you're hiding
things in a monogamous relationship until you end up in
(21:35):
another type of relationship where you realize, oh, I need
to tell this because here in this setting, with this framework,
it's celebrated. And so it's not like you're hiding things
in a monogamous relationship. You're just not volunteering information that's
not relevant. But in a plural relationship that's kind of
part for the course, and critically for me, often at
(21:59):
times I foun in those monogamous relationships that binary that
comes with it. There's one man, one woman, one masculine,
one feminine, and then when it comes time to argue,
when you're facing the end of your relationship, there's one
person who's right, and if that's you, then conceivably the
other person is wrong. Right now, they don't think that
they're wrong. They think you're wrong, and they've chosen that
(22:22):
hill to die on. And of course, if you're right,
you're right, So you're going to die on your hill,
and you retreat to your various corners of I'm right, no,
I'm right, No, I'm right, and you're wrong. No, you're wrong, no,
you're wrong. And in the middle of that there are
cancerous elements that grow, Memories get rewritten, you know, all
(22:47):
kinds of stuff, right, and that binary ultimately splits right
at that fail point. Now, if there is a third person,
like the relationship that I was in, where there are
two people who care about each other and they both
care about me and I care about both of them,
(23:10):
then there's a shared sort of love and support system
in play. And so if two people disagree, there is
a tiebreaker. And this isn't a tiebreaker that you call
in to kind of you know, like a friend that
you tap on the shoulder, or you know, a therapist
or anything. No, this is someone who's actually in that
relationship with you, that actually does care about this person
(23:32):
and does care about you. And so I could see
the merit of a plural relationship being one that has
a different dynamic and that is insulated against that particular
fail point and as a result, has a different strategy
(23:53):
if indeed, success is measured by those matching burial plots.
Now I have to disclose that that real relationship did
not last, nor did any of my monogamous relationships, of course,
because people always want to say, you know, plural relationships
don't last. And you know, I could tell the reason
I left the country to go on tour and traveling
(24:16):
the world, and ultimately it whittled itself down to a
binary again while I was gone, and that didn't work out,
and so when I came back to the country, it
was already kind of splintered. But I was able to
see how a different dynamic is viable for different people
(24:37):
based on their individual sensibilities. Now I want to make
sure I say this last thing. Do I think that
monogamous relationships are the only way No, do I think
that polyamorous relationships are the only way. No, But I
did recognize that for people who have not been in that,
who only come from that perspective that you mentioned, Q,
(24:59):
which is like, this is unnatural, this is a sin,
this is a cult, this is blah blahh whatever. It's
hard for those people to know how this works and
how this can address different individuals sensibilities if they have
(25:23):
not experienced that themselves. And far be it from me
to judge Neo for being in a polyamorous relationship. Far
be it for me to judge President Obama for being,
you know, in a monogamous relationship. I think that if
they work for those people, then so be it. But
(25:44):
for people that have the story written about polyamorous relationships
without having been in one, I think you're right cute
that they're judging people, and they're doing so their judgment
is baseless, often an off, and it is unfair and
short sighted.
Speaker 4 (26:06):
I cannot disagree.
Speaker 5 (26:08):
And some people just don't know any better than to judge. Again,
I don't understand that thing. It's different than me, so
it's wrong, and that's an unfortunate way to view not
just love and relationships with the world.
Speaker 4 (26:27):
There's a lot of that going around these days.
Speaker 5 (26:30):
That thing those people that practice that idea is different
than mine. I don't understand it, so I fear it,
or I hate it, or I judge it. And it's
an unfortunate way to approach life, to approach love, and
to approach the world. So again, there will forever be
things that I have not experienced, so I don't understand,
(26:55):
and I reserve my harsh, extreme judgments of those things.
And I'm fine with expressing that there's just a lot
that I don't know and a lot that I don't understand.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
Yeah, well, for all those people that do that judgment.
Funnily enough, genetically speaking, all of us have the genetic
markers that suggest that our species has tended toward one man,
(27:29):
many women in terms of procreation. And while that might
be inconsistent with faith, culture ideas about what's right and wrong,
without the practice, it is not likely that we would
(27:52):
have even gotten to the point where we are. And so.
Speaker 4 (27:59):
Simple for thought.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
But for all the folks that have a lot to
say about NEO, for all the people who pop up
all the time, and for all the times that this
stuff gets sent to me and you Q about you
know what Neo's talking about. I feel like, you know,
the man has found his way. He's obviously he's providing,
(28:24):
he's he's doing what he's supposed to do, and I see,
I see nothing wrong with that.
Speaker 4 (28:34):
Now.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
I know we're gonna get a lot of comments for
this one, but I'm ready for it. I'm ready because
you know, I shared something this kind of personal, and
that's not the only relationship that I've been in that
was plural, you know, by definition. But you know, I
(28:58):
feel like people might have something to say, and I
guess that's what we signed up for, right, So if
you got something to say, let's hear it. You can
reach out using the red microphone talkback feature on the
iHeartRadio app, or of course, you can hit me on
all social media at Rams's job.
Speaker 4 (29:12):
I am Qward on all social media as well.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
All right, let's talk about it and until we do peace.
This has been a production of the Black Information Network.
Today's show is produced by Chris Thompson. Have some thoughts
you'd like to share, use the red microphone talkback feature
on the iHeartRadio app. While you're there, be sure to
hit subscribing down with all of our episodes, I'm your host,
Ramsey's job on all social media. Join us tomorrow as
(29:36):
we share our news with our voice from our perspective
right here on the Black Information Network Daily Podcast
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