September 16, 2021 • 34 mins
Elton John and John Lennon had a special relationship. It very well may have been the deepest and closest relationship that John had with another musician after Paul McCartney. Elton explains how he and John hid out from Andy Warhol in a hotel room; how one of the most legendary bets in rock ‘n roll history led to John making an unexpected appearance at Madison Square Garden; and how John’s brush with UFOs makes us reevaluate just exactly what we think is real.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Blood on the Tracks is a production of I Heart
Radio and Double Elvis. John Lennon was a musical genius
and one of the most beloved cultural figures of the
twentieth century. His songs inspired dreamers to imagine, his search
for the truth gave power to the people. But some
thought he dreamed too much. Others thought he was too powerful.
(00:23):
So he was followed, he was threatened, he was declared
a danger to the United States, and in night he
was assassinated. This is his story told by his so
called friends. This is Special Agent shim Steal with the
(00:45):
Federal Bureau of Investigation, working case number double oh nine
zero eight zero four nine one. Case subject as Lennon,
John Winston oh No. This information pertains to a period
ending November four. Interview subject as John Sir Elton Hercules
interview number one Dash one to Dash eight one nine
(01:07):
Dash seven four Recall number one December. At first, I
was quite intimidated by John, because I knew he was
raised sharp and could be quite abrasive. But outside of
him never came out around me. In fact, John and
(01:29):
I got on like a house on fire. We had
the same sense of humor. I found him very kind
very funny. I don't know why the click we just did.
Our relationship was a bit of a world. We saw
each other a lot of it about a short period
of time, and then when we didn't see each other
much anymore, I love for each other simply endured. So
(01:51):
when he died I refused to believe it's at first
it was so violent. I just lost Mark Boland and
Keith Moon and now John murdered for absolutely no reason.
It was simply unbelievable. I just landed in Australia for
a tall woman be told to go off the plane,
and suddenly there were these news reports showing microphones and
(02:13):
cameras in my face asking me how I felt bloody?
How how do you think I felt? Was devastated. I
was also angry. Drummonds told me when Jim Crowtray died,
the new sample records when you're deader when you're alive,
pretty sick. This world, this world paid good money for tragedy.
(02:38):
The wallets come out to get a good look and
the blood in the tracts Ye chapter six, John Lennon
(03:08):
and Elton John. Everyone said that John Lennon wasn't like
the other Beatles, for years. I had to take everyone
at their word because I didn't meet John personally until nine.
(03:31):
And of course I learned straight away that everyone was right.
John was not like the others. John wasn't like anyone else,
really simidated Bartel. I learned this the moment I walked
to Tony King's office at Capitol Records in Hollywood. Tony
King was Apple Records General manager for the United States,
and he just sets up his office in that legendary
building that looks like a stack of records. John was
(03:53):
in town to shoot promotional videos for his upcoming album,
Mind Games, and he and Tony were tossing around some
ideas behind closed doors. Nothing prepared me for what I
was about to see when I opened the office door
and I walked inside, Tony King dressed in full drag
because Queen Elizabeth the Second dancing wildly with John. There's
no music playing. John may have been having a tune
(04:16):
as he stunned Tony in that huge regal dress, but
all I remember is the laughing the ladies and gentlemen,
Her Royal Highness, the Queen. The Queen. You know when
you meet someone for the first time and realize that
they're a kindred spirit that you just know that the
two of you are destined for something special, something shared.
(04:37):
I had the instant connection with John when I met him,
and yes, I realized he was one of the most
famous people in the world at that time. He always
had been and he always will be. And I also
realized that my opportunity to meet him like that in
such a private moment that no one else in the
world ever saw. The reason I had that chance was
(04:59):
because I had begun my own assent on the charts
that year Daniel Saturday Nights all Right for Fighting and
Goodbye Yellow Brick Road Raw Hits in seventy three, And
before you know it, I'm witnessing this incredible moment in
this tiny office of the Capitol Building. John rarely let
his guard down, that's famously noted, especially in front of
the public or people who didn't know. But for the
(05:21):
moment we shook hands, his guard was non existent. He
felt like the rock and roll world was progressing beyond
where the Beatles had left it a few years before,
and he was feeling left behind. He was beginning to
feel out of touch, frustrating Lee. I was at touch,
and this was earlier there was all this androgeny happening
(05:45):
in rock and roll at the time. He didn't get it.
It's just rock and roll with lipstick on, he dismissively
told Bowie, I got glam. In addition to Bowie's ziggy
start us, there was Mark Boland in t Rex and
Mick Jagger was continuing to blur lines of sexuality and me.
Of course, perhaps that's one of the reasons John wanted
(06:07):
to meet me. He felt like he was losing his head.
He was he was becoming uncool. He didn't know how
to be like Bolan or Bowie or Jagger. I don't know.
Maybe he thought he'd cleaned some insight or learned by
osmosis or something by being around me, because I did
what I wanted and John did what he wanted. But
(06:29):
the difference was that I didn't care what I looked
like and John cared far too much. Now I've heard
the same stories you've heard about John's supposed homophobic comments.
Is jokes, the ones from the past that he made
at the expense of people like his former manager Brian
Epstein Quarty person. But I don't know anything about that.
(06:49):
I never saw anything like that, just as I never
saw the rock bottom depressed, self destructive time bond that
everyone else talks about. During this period John's lost weekend
away from Yoko, I had two fish named John and Yoko.
Did you know that before I ever got famous? Anyway,
I digress. He wasn't depressed, he wasn't self destructive. Was
(07:16):
he going through a rough patch? Absolutely? Did he know
the light was somewhere at the end of the tunnel.
Of course he did. But the narratives of people like
Harry Nielsen and Keith Moon only tell one side of
the story. Oh sure, I had some wild times that John.
My experience wasn't unique in that way. But our wild
times weren't sad and pitiful. They were exhilarating and they
(07:39):
were funny. We hit from Andy Warhol in minor hotel room,
the Sherry Netherlands on Fifth Avenue in New York. It
was just the two of us, Me and John, along
with a lot of cocaine. Look, John's excessive drinking and
drug use didn't end when he came back to New York.
(07:59):
We had just had as much coke. Because you'd expect
two major pop stars to have in the mid seventies,
the amount of coke we did then well, there was
always too much, but it felt like we never had enough.
We rolled up dirty dollar bills and snorted line after
line cheese as the rush. It's like a firework on
your forehead. In the hotel room, we talked about collaborating
(08:23):
while we did lines. John was making a new album
at the record plant in New York and he wanted
me to come play on it. Now, that was a
thrill to be asked to play on a record by
a Beatle, the Beetle who was not like the other Beatles.
We were talking about this collaboration when there was a
knock at the door of my hotel room. We're both froze.
(08:46):
We were quite a site, I'm sure, sitting there on
the couch, high power annoid, wondering if we were hearing things,
not making a move or a sound. Our noses are
probably covered in dust. John spoke first, did you hear something?
He whispered, at least I thought it was a whisper.
And then on knocking at the door, we heard a
(09:08):
voice house in the hallway, But boys, are you in there?
I tiptoed over to the door and stuck my eyes
to the pole glasses, white hair, camera dangling around his neck,
and it was acting. I turned around and tiptoed back
to John. I told him because Andy Warhole with a camera,
(09:29):
and he knocked again. I raised my shoulders John and
gave him the universal sign for what should we do.
John's eyes went wide. He violently shook his head side
to side, and he was right up. As of them
never came out. We were up to our eyeballs in cocaine.
If we let Andrew Warhole carry a camera into that
room at that moment, who knows how many pictures he
(09:51):
would have taken, and who knows who would have seen
those pictures. So he kept doing lines in silence. Every
once in a while and he knock again. I know
you boys are in there. We'd stifle a laugh, trying
not to chuckle while powder was rocketing up noses. And
(10:12):
we kept doing that until the knocking stopped and Nancy
Warhol went away. Because there are some things that are
meant to be private, there are some moments that the
world will never be allowed to see. People still call
(10:52):
it the most famous bet in the history of rock
and roll. So while I'm sure you've heard about it,
it bears repeating. We finished the track for John's new album,
Walls and Bridges, the one who wanted me to play on.
I played piano and sang with him. It was called
whatever gets You through the night. There was a simple
phrase that John and I had picked up watching TV
late at night. John loved to watch TV. People say
(11:15):
that TV rotch your brains out. Well, John Lennon, one
of the eminent geniuses of our time, watched a lot
of TV, so you'll be the judge there. He was
watching TV late one night and stumbled upon some televangelist
and he said that phrase right to the camera to
his audience, whatever gets you through the night, You do
(11:40):
what you have to do. So we tracked the song
at the record plant, and I loved the song so
much and had so much energy and felt so alive
in a way that John's original music hadn't felt in
some time. I loved it so much that I told
John it was going to be a number one hit,
a funk off, John said. John hadn't had another one
(12:02):
in the US since the Beatles Imagine got close, but
he felt like he was no longer a number one artists,
and with everything going on with him, in America, the
immigration stuff, the political stuff. He felt like a guy
who really wanted to be at the party, even though
everyone at the party wanted him to leave. I mean,
(12:23):
there were many Americans who still hadn't gotten over that
bigger than Jesus nonsense. Meanwhile, Paul, George and Ringo all
had number ones on their own good money. So I
know that the topic of number one is made John
very bitter, but I could hear it. I knew the
song is going to be huge, and so I made
(12:45):
him a bet right then and there, before we even
left the studio. I bet John that if the song
went to number one on the charts, then he would
agree to perform with me live on stage at my
four Thanksgiving show at Madison Square. Guard and he agreed
because he was convinced that I would lose that bet.
(13:07):
If he had known that the song was going to
go all the way to the top, he probably wouldn't
have taken the bed. Remember, the Beatles had quit performing
live in nineteen sixty six. John had played a handful
of live shows since then. You could count them on
one hand. It had been two years since he last
played live. When the single came out in the fall
of what started climbing the charts first, and I kept
(13:35):
going September October November. That's when John started paying attention
and started to sweat. Why was he sweating because he
had no intention of appearing on stage maybe ever again.
And then the song hit number one November, just twelve
(13:58):
days before my show at Madison squa her Garden. John,
of course, was a man of his word, showed up
that night November. He told me I had one caveat.
He didn't put Yoko there. Even though John was living
back in New York and his lost weekend was over,
(14:18):
the two of them were still a ways off from reconciling,
and he was so nervous about performing live. I think
the thought of Yoko coming there made him even more nervous.
He just couldn't handle it all. So I said, sure,
Yoko won't be there, like I could fucking control what
Yoko did or didn't do. She knew that John had
(14:40):
requested that she not show up, and so she made
a purely Yoker move showed up anyway. She made a presence, no,
not by coming backstage to which John a good show.
She kept a distance, but she did send a Guardinia
backstage to John. At this point, I was thinking, oh
my god, he's going to back out. Yeah, he was
(15:02):
already a nervous wreck going into this thing, and no
Yoko and the Gardinias much too much, you know. I
took the stage of my band and opened the show
with Funeral for a Friend and Love Lives Bleeding. The
sold out cry of twenty people were on their feet
and singing to every chorus. The place was electric, the
noise was deafening. Meanwhile, John was puking his guts out backstage. Headaches, nausea, formatting,
(15:31):
more headaches, more nosier, more vomiting up. I don't know
if yourself medicating with anything, but if he was, it
wasn't helping. He was pale, the shirt collar was wet.
My band kept rolling, Take Me to the Pilot. Benny
and the Jets burned down the mission. We were about
(15:52):
nine or ten songs into our set when I decided
it was time to bring out John. I couldn't save
him for an encore surprise. I was worried if I
didn't just pull the trigger on it sooner rather than later,
he'd get cold feet for real and disappear. I looked
over to the side of the stage where John was
standing out of sight, looking like he was about to
(16:13):
throw up or bolt, or maybe both. I gave John
a wink and a nod, and then looked out on
the crowd and spoken to the microphone. It's our great
privilege and your great privilege to see and here Mr
John Lennon and John Lena. John walked onto the stage
(16:38):
wearing dark sunglasses, a black shirt, black suit with Yoko's
white Guardinia stuck through the button hurle of his jacket. Now,
let me tell you, I have been in front of
some of the biggest crowds at some of the biggest shows,
and I have I've never heard an audience react like that.
(17:00):
They've roared, they screamed, just world, post good money. I
could only imagine it was a bit like experienced even
the original beatle Mania, you know. Once the crowd settled
a bit, we launched into Whatever gets You through the Night,
the very song that had made this whole thing possible,
and then we followed that up with Lucy and the
(17:21):
Sky with Diamonds, and I saw her standing there. John
had successfully blown the cop website, so he came back
out with us. During the encore, he and Bernie Torbin
played tambourines on the Bitches Back. It was a transcendent moment,
absolutely beautiful. No one knew it at the time, but
(17:46):
that will be the last time John would ever play
a concert like that again. Six years later he was
gone and My Madison Square Garden show was his swan song.
Perhaps been more incredible, however, is what happened immediately after
the show. John and Yoko reconciled. Eleven months later, Sean
(18:08):
was born, and I was asked to be Shaun's godfather.
And this is exactly why I say that the day
I first met John Lennon in Tony King's office at
the Capitol, I knew it was something truly unique, something special.
I knew great things were going to come from our relationship.
(18:31):
I believe I was put in John's life at that
precise moment to make all those things happen. Perhaps I
was a talisman, a good luck friend, because soon after
all those things happened, I didn't see John much anymore,
and that's when things changed. That's when things got really dark.
(19:00):
We'll be right back after this word word. Do you know?
A Roman? Polanski filmed Rosemary's baby the Dakota, the one
in same Dakota where John and Yoko lived. But now
(19:22):
maybe it's just me, but I couldn't live in a
place like that. Not only was it a location for
a creepy movie, but it looked creepy enough and in
real life to warrant it's used in a creepy movie.
And then all the stuff about Robert Ryan's wife who
died there, Yoko suspected that maybe the ghost of this
woman didn't appreciate her and John living there, and this
(19:44):
ghost was doing things to make them feel unwanted world.
Yoko even saw a psychic about whatever was going on
at the Dakota, a Tarot card reader. Ironic, isn't it,
given the John famously saying he did believe in Tara. Anyway,
the Tara reader didn't necessarily cure the Dakota of its creepiness,
(20:06):
but he told something to Yoka very disturbing. He said,
your husband sleeps in blood. I'm telling you all of
this because there was something very strange going on amongst
the preferey of John's life. A lot of it couldn't
be explained. A lot of it was probably incidental or coincidental.
(20:32):
A lot of it I didn't really think about until later.
But for example, after the show Madison Square Garden, some
of us went to the Pierre Hotel on his sixty
one Street for a drink. It was me and John Reid,
who was both my manager and my lover at the time.
John and Yoko and Tony King. It was late, it
(20:54):
was a Thursday night, Thanksgiving night. You're a Gala showed
up at our table at some do you know You're
Agether the mind reader illusionist. He was there bending silver
air that was laid out on the tables, the usual
floating in and out of conversations, gravitating to those who
obviously didn't know his stick and were therefore most liable
(21:15):
to drop their jaws to the floor when Uri read
their mind or bent a fought backwards with his own mind.
He started reading minds, which is always quite entertaining because
of the looks unsuspecting people make when they realize they
need to quickly figure out a way to hide all
the dirty things they're thinking at that very moment, and
(21:36):
then subsequently realized that there is literally no way to
hide your thoughts from a person who can read your mind.
If you can actually read mind simply unbelievably. In fact,
I'm not sure what I trust to what I believe
about Uri. But that night at the Pierre Urie and
John started talking on alood shot than never come out.
(21:58):
John had recently given an interview to well to himself
in a way. This was an interview magazine, which was
Andy Warhols magazine. The interview was with John Lennon and
conducted by Dr Winston o' boogie, which people may or
may not have realized at the time was really debauched
alias John had gone under for quite some time. In
(22:21):
the interview, John claimed that he saw a UFO flying
around New York City from the window of his apartment. First.
The issue of Interview had just come out that month,
in November seventy four, and Ury was very interested in
talking to John Moore about UFOs. He was a big
believer in the existence of aliens all that. So the
(22:41):
two of them began talking at the corner of the table.
Jury made John feel comfortable by telling him that he
believed John's story that he himself had seen UFOs or
even photographed UFOs. John became so comfortable. It turns out
that Jury says John told him even more. John said
(23:02):
that one night he was lying in bed at the
Dakota he us alone, a bright light slowly lists up
the outline of the bedroom door, which was closed. The
light was so bright the door appeared to be glowing itself.
John got himself out of bed, walked over to the
door and opened it, and there, silhouetted against this blinding
(23:25):
white light, were four figures. They weren't people, There were
beings otherworldly. They reached out for his hands and his
legs and guided him forward through the apartment. Only they
weren't in the apartment anymore. They were They were walking
down this path of bright light that played scenes from
his life in a series of small screens to his left,
(23:48):
his right, above him, and below him. He watched his
entire life in a flash, from Liverpool to London, to
New York and beyond. The figures gave something to him,
but didn't see what it was. Then they guided him
back to the bedroom. When they left, John realized there
was something heavy in his hands. He opened up and
(24:10):
looked down, and in his palms was a ball of
metal in the shape and size of an egg. Did
this actually happen? I can't confirm or deny. I haven't
talked with the Rian years and this is something I
had second or third or fourth hand from that evening,
(24:31):
not that I was in a sober state on that
evening or any evening around that time to remember anything
correctly or coherently. Have you ever seen a ufo another
worldly figure in your house that shows your entire life
on playback? John and I never talked about UFOs. In fact,
I thought the interview magazine was John taking the piston,
(24:54):
pretending to be a believer, because as we know, he
didn't believe in much besides himself and Yoko and Sean
and the people who are meaningful to him. But what
if there were other things he believed? Would you believe that?
What if we thought we knew everything about John Lennon
(25:16):
but in reality we didn't know him at all. It
(25:50):
wasn't until he got the cuckoo clock home that he
realized it wasn't actually a cuckoo clock after all. So
what would one call it a cuckoo clock? Upon intended,
of course, because instead of a wooden cuckoo springing forth
at the top of every hour, clock produced a wooden
penis a big one. Elton John found the clock hysterical,
(26:12):
and it made him think of the one person who
shared his same sense of humor. It would make the
perfect gift. John and Yoko's apartment at the Dakota Cooperative
Building at the northwest corner of seventy two Street in
Central Park West and Manhattan's Upper West Side was full
of trinkets from the couple's travels, guitars, antique couches, a
(26:33):
warlords or jukebox, priceless artwork. Elton figured that the clock
would fit right in with John and Yoko's bohemian bric
a brac style. Elton included a card with the gifted
clock that reveled in the brand of humor that he
and John shared. Imagine six apartments. It isn't hard to do.
One is full of fur coats, another's full of shoes.
(26:54):
Years later, Elton John stood inside the Dakota Building, in
the middle of John and Yoko's apartment and saw the
cheeky clock displayed amongst other fanciful collectibles. The clock brought
back memories, good memories. He needed the good memories because
these days it seemed like one bad memory was the
only memory that hung around It was the early nineteen eighties,
(27:18):
and John Lennon had been dead for a few years.
In the six years between the fateful Madison Square Garden
show and his assassination, John had seen Elton only a
handful of times. Elton was godfather to John and Yoko's son, Sean,
but while Elton was busy making records and touring, while
John was busy not being busy. In September of nine eight,
(27:42):
Elton played a show in Central Park half a million people,
his largest crowd to date. He played Imagine in John's
honor and hoped that John was sitting on his roof
deck on the edge of Central Park and could hear
his song wafting through the warm September air lay her.
That night, John Yoko reconnected with Elton at a post
(28:03):
gig party. Little did Elton no it would be the
last time he would ever see John alive. Just two
months later, John was gunned down outside the Dakota, and
now Elton John stood inside the Dakota. It was two
Probably Elton had stopped keeping track. His steady diet of vodka,
(28:24):
martinis and coke helped blurred days into weeks and weeks
in two years Yoko Ono had asked him to come
over to the Dakota to see her. She had tapes,
tapes of music that John had been working on before
he was shot. The tapes were unfinished. She needed someone
to finish them. She wanted Elton to finish them. But
Elton couldn't do it. He didn't even want to hear them.
(28:46):
He didn't want the temptation. Elton John didn't want to
be the one who funked up the legacy of John Lennon,
the guy who couldn't make a decent meal out of
some leftovers. Elton wrote music to Bernie Topen's words, that's
what he knew. Fact. The duo wrote the song empty
Garden about John's murder, one part eulogy to their departed friend,
(29:06):
one part condemnation of the murderer. It's one of the
standout tracks on Elton's most overlooked jump up album from
But what Yogo was asking Now? This ask was too big,
too far outside Elton's comfort zone, so Elton turned Yogo down.
(29:27):
Yogo finished the tapes on her own with the help
of producer Jack Douglas, and the postumus John and Yoko
album Milk and Honey was released in January of but
Jack Douglas didn't see his name in the liner notes.
Yoko had left it out on purpose because Yoko was
embroiled in a court case that same year when Jack
Douglas suited her to the tune of three point five
(29:47):
million dollars. That was the amount Douglas claimed he was
owed for unpaid royalties on both Milk and Honey and
Double Fantasy, the record John released right before his death.
Yogo claimed the con tract was fraudulent. The jury sided
with Douglas in order to Yoko to pay him more
than two point five million dollars in back royalties. The
(30:08):
case was settled just months after Milk and Honey had
been released, and as they say, I'll press is good press.
Though not as critically successful as Double Fantasy, Milk and
Honey went to number three on the UK charts and
number eleven on the US charts, where it also went gold.
Milk and Honey didn't radically alter anyone's perception of John's
latter musical years. Serviceable rock songs like I'm Stepping Out
(30:32):
and Nobody Told Me would have fit in just fine
on Double Fantasy. It wasn't a career reinvention. It didn't
flip the script or offer a new perspective on the
person everyone thought they knew. No one knew that Elton
John had almost made his own mark on the songs,
and thus no one knew what said mark would have
sounded like, Not even Elton John. Reinvention was years in
(30:53):
the rear view for John Lennon. Reinvention happened right before
the birth of Sean, right before John won his fight
to remain in the United States, and it could only
have happened in New York City. It happened in nineteen
seventy five. That was John Lennon's last gasp as a
creative revolutionary, before Elton John and the rest of the
(31:13):
world lost sight of him. In John made a last
minute decision to join a recording session which would put
him unexpectedly in the nexus of New York City's avant
garde and at the forefront of New York City's pop scene.
That same session elevated the American profile of another British
rock star seeking to make another of his many own reinventions,
(31:36):
and it happened amidst more chaos, drugs, death and disorder
were constants along with the unexpected, the unexplained. If you
look back on that year, in that time, you can
still see the residue of what happened, what was lost,
what was one, what's gone forever, and what remains. It's
(31:56):
all still there, hidden deep within the Blood on the Tracks.
All right, everybody, thanks for listening to Blood on the Tracks.
(32:18):
If you like what you hear, be sure to find
and follow Blood on the Tracks on Apple podcast, I
Heart Radio, app, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts.
On this season two of Blood on the Tracks, we'll
be releasing ten episodes on the incredible life of John Lennon,
with a new episode every Thursday. You can also binge
all ten episodes of season one on the insane story
(32:39):
of the notorious record producer Phil Spector right now. It's
available wherever you get your podcast. This episode of Blood
on the Tracks was written by Zeth Lundi and hosted
an executive produced by me Jake Brennan, also executive produced
by Brady sad Story and copy editing by Pat Heally.
This episode was mixed by Colin Fleming. Additional music and
score elements by Ryan Spreaker. This episode featured Rob Kendrick
(33:03):
as Elton John. Blood on the Tracks is produced by
Double Elvis and partnership with I Heart Radio. Sources for
this episode are available at Double Elvis dot com on
the Blood on the Tracks series page. If you want
to chat about this show or hear more about the
other shows, we're making a Double Elvis tap in on
Instagram at double Elvis, on Twitter at double Elvis fm,
(33:24):
and now on Twitch where we're streaming three days a
week at Twitch dot tv slash Double Elvis Podcasts. And finally,
be sure to check out disgrace Land, the award winning
music and true crime podcast that I also host. Disgraceland
is available only on the free Amazon Music. To hear
tons of insane stories about your favorite musicians getting away
(33:44):
with murder and behaving very badly, go to Amazon dot
com slash disgrace lamb, or if you have an Echo device,
just say Alexa play the disgrace Land podcast. Black Amm
That Crazy,
Blood on the Tracks is a production of I Heart
Radio and Double Elvis. John Lennon was a musical genius
and one of the most beloved cultural figures of the
twentieth century. His songs inspired dreamers to imagine, his search
for the truth gave power to the people. But some
thought he dreamed too much. Others thought he was too powerful.
(00:23):
So he was followed, he was threatened, he was declared
a danger to the United States, and in night he
was assassinated. This is his story told by his so
called friends. This is Special Agent shim Steal with the
(00:45):
Federal Bureau of Investigation, working case number double oh nine
zero eight zero four nine one. Case subject as Lennon,
John Winston oh No. This information pertains to a period
ending November four. Interview subject as John Sir Elton Hercules
interview number one Dash one to Dash eight one nine
(01:07):
Dash seven four Recall number one December. At first, I
was quite intimidated by John, because I knew he was
raised sharp and could be quite abrasive. But outside of
him never came out around me. In fact, John and
(01:29):
I got on like a house on fire. We had
the same sense of humor. I found him very kind
very funny. I don't know why the click we just did.
Our relationship was a bit of a world. We saw
each other a lot of it about a short period
of time, and then when we didn't see each other
much anymore, I love for each other simply endured. So
(01:51):
when he died I refused to believe it's at first
it was so violent. I just lost Mark Boland and
Keith Moon and now John murdered for absolutely no reason.
It was simply unbelievable. I just landed in Australia for
a tall woman be told to go off the plane,
and suddenly there were these news reports showing microphones and
(02:13):
cameras in my face asking me how I felt bloody?
How how do you think I felt? Was devastated. I
was also angry. Drummonds told me when Jim Crowtray died,
the new sample records when you're deader when you're alive,
pretty sick. This world, this world paid good money for tragedy.
(02:38):
The wallets come out to get a good look and
the blood in the tracts Ye chapter six, John Lennon
(03:08):
and Elton John. Everyone said that John Lennon wasn't like
the other Beatles, for years. I had to take everyone
at their word because I didn't meet John personally until nine.
(03:31):
And of course I learned straight away that everyone was right.
John was not like the others. John wasn't like anyone else,
really simidated Bartel. I learned this the moment I walked
to Tony King's office at Capitol Records in Hollywood. Tony
King was Apple Records General manager for the United States,
and he just sets up his office in that legendary
building that looks like a stack of records. John was
(03:53):
in town to shoot promotional videos for his upcoming album,
Mind Games, and he and Tony were tossing around some
ideas behind closed doors. Nothing prepared me for what I
was about to see when I opened the office door
and I walked inside, Tony King dressed in full drag
because Queen Elizabeth the Second dancing wildly with John. There's
no music playing. John may have been having a tune
(04:16):
as he stunned Tony in that huge regal dress, but
all I remember is the laughing the ladies and gentlemen,
Her Royal Highness, the Queen. The Queen. You know when
you meet someone for the first time and realize that
they're a kindred spirit that you just know that the
two of you are destined for something special, something shared.
(04:37):
I had the instant connection with John when I met him,
and yes, I realized he was one of the most
famous people in the world at that time. He always
had been and he always will be. And I also
realized that my opportunity to meet him like that in
such a private moment that no one else in the
world ever saw. The reason I had that chance was
(04:59):
because I had begun my own assent on the charts
that year Daniel Saturday Nights all Right for Fighting and
Goodbye Yellow Brick Road Raw Hits in seventy three, And
before you know it, I'm witnessing this incredible moment in
this tiny office of the Capitol Building. John rarely let
his guard down, that's famously noted, especially in front of
the public or people who didn't know. But for the
(05:21):
moment we shook hands, his guard was non existent. He
felt like the rock and roll world was progressing beyond
where the Beatles had left it a few years before,
and he was feeling left behind. He was beginning to
feel out of touch, frustrating Lee. I was at touch,
and this was earlier there was all this androgeny happening
(05:45):
in rock and roll at the time. He didn't get it.
It's just rock and roll with lipstick on, he dismissively
told Bowie, I got glam. In addition to Bowie's ziggy
start us, there was Mark Boland in t Rex and
Mick Jagger was continuing to blur lines of sexuality and me.
Of course, perhaps that's one of the reasons John wanted
(06:07):
to meet me. He felt like he was losing his head.
He was he was becoming uncool. He didn't know how
to be like Bolan or Bowie or Jagger. I don't know.
Maybe he thought he'd cleaned some insight or learned by
osmosis or something by being around me, because I did
what I wanted and John did what he wanted. But
(06:29):
the difference was that I didn't care what I looked
like and John cared far too much. Now I've heard
the same stories you've heard about John's supposed homophobic comments.
Is jokes, the ones from the past that he made
at the expense of people like his former manager Brian
Epstein Quarty person. But I don't know anything about that.
(06:49):
I never saw anything like that, just as I never
saw the rock bottom depressed, self destructive time bond that
everyone else talks about. During this period John's lost weekend
away from Yoko, I had two fish named John and Yoko.
Did you know that before I ever got famous? Anyway,
I digress. He wasn't depressed, he wasn't self destructive. Was
(07:16):
he going through a rough patch? Absolutely? Did he know
the light was somewhere at the end of the tunnel.
Of course he did. But the narratives of people like
Harry Nielsen and Keith Moon only tell one side of
the story. Oh sure, I had some wild times that John.
My experience wasn't unique in that way. But our wild
times weren't sad and pitiful. They were exhilarating and they
(07:39):
were funny. We hit from Andy Warhol in minor hotel room,
the Sherry Netherlands on Fifth Avenue in New York. It
was just the two of us, Me and John, along
with a lot of cocaine. Look, John's excessive drinking and
drug use didn't end when he came back to New York.
(07:59):
We had just had as much coke. Because you'd expect
two major pop stars to have in the mid seventies,
the amount of coke we did then well, there was
always too much, but it felt like we never had enough.
We rolled up dirty dollar bills and snorted line after
line cheese as the rush. It's like a firework on
your forehead. In the hotel room, we talked about collaborating
(08:23):
while we did lines. John was making a new album
at the record plant in New York and he wanted
me to come play on it. Now, that was a
thrill to be asked to play on a record by
a Beatle, the Beetle who was not like the other Beatles.
We were talking about this collaboration when there was a
knock at the door of my hotel room. We're both froze.
(08:46):
We were quite a site, I'm sure, sitting there on
the couch, high power annoid, wondering if we were hearing things,
not making a move or a sound. Our noses are
probably covered in dust. John spoke first, did you hear something?
He whispered, at least I thought it was a whisper.
And then on knocking at the door, we heard a
(09:08):
voice house in the hallway, But boys, are you in there?
I tiptoed over to the door and stuck my eyes
to the pole glasses, white hair, camera dangling around his neck,
and it was acting. I turned around and tiptoed back
to John. I told him because Andy Warhole with a camera,
(09:29):
and he knocked again. I raised my shoulders John and
gave him the universal sign for what should we do.
John's eyes went wide. He violently shook his head side
to side, and he was right up. As of them
never came out. We were up to our eyeballs in cocaine.
If we let Andrew Warhole carry a camera into that
room at that moment, who knows how many pictures he
(09:51):
would have taken, and who knows who would have seen
those pictures. So he kept doing lines in silence. Every
once in a while and he knock again. I know
you boys are in there. We'd stifle a laugh, trying
not to chuckle while powder was rocketing up noses. And
(10:12):
we kept doing that until the knocking stopped and Nancy
Warhol went away. Because there are some things that are
meant to be private, there are some moments that the
world will never be allowed to see. People still call
(10:52):
it the most famous bet in the history of rock
and roll. So while I'm sure you've heard about it,
it bears repeating. We finished the track for John's new album,
Walls and Bridges, the one who wanted me to play on.
I played piano and sang with him. It was called
whatever gets You through the night. There was a simple
phrase that John and I had picked up watching TV
late at night. John loved to watch TV. People say
(11:15):
that TV rotch your brains out. Well, John Lennon, one
of the eminent geniuses of our time, watched a lot
of TV, so you'll be the judge there. He was
watching TV late one night and stumbled upon some televangelist
and he said that phrase right to the camera to
his audience, whatever gets you through the night, You do
(11:40):
what you have to do. So we tracked the song
at the record plant, and I loved the song so
much and had so much energy and felt so alive
in a way that John's original music hadn't felt in
some time. I loved it so much that I told
John it was going to be a number one hit,
a funk off, John said. John hadn't had another one
(12:02):
in the US since the Beatles Imagine got close, but
he felt like he was no longer a number one artists,
and with everything going on with him, in America, the
immigration stuff, the political stuff. He felt like a guy
who really wanted to be at the party, even though
everyone at the party wanted him to leave. I mean,
(12:23):
there were many Americans who still hadn't gotten over that
bigger than Jesus nonsense. Meanwhile, Paul, George and Ringo all
had number ones on their own good money. So I
know that the topic of number one is made John
very bitter, but I could hear it. I knew the
song is going to be huge, and so I made
(12:45):
him a bet right then and there, before we even
left the studio. I bet John that if the song
went to number one on the charts, then he would
agree to perform with me live on stage at my
four Thanksgiving show at Madison Square. Guard and he agreed
because he was convinced that I would lose that bet.
(13:07):
If he had known that the song was going to
go all the way to the top, he probably wouldn't
have taken the bed. Remember, the Beatles had quit performing
live in nineteen sixty six. John had played a handful
of live shows since then. You could count them on
one hand. It had been two years since he last
played live. When the single came out in the fall
of what started climbing the charts first, and I kept
(13:35):
going September October November. That's when John started paying attention
and started to sweat. Why was he sweating because he
had no intention of appearing on stage maybe ever again.
And then the song hit number one November, just twelve
(13:58):
days before my show at Madison squa her Garden. John,
of course, was a man of his word, showed up
that night November. He told me I had one caveat.
He didn't put Yoko there. Even though John was living
back in New York and his lost weekend was over,
(14:18):
the two of them were still a ways off from reconciling,
and he was so nervous about performing live. I think
the thought of Yoko coming there made him even more nervous.
He just couldn't handle it all. So I said, sure,
Yoko won't be there, like I could fucking control what
Yoko did or didn't do. She knew that John had
(14:40):
requested that she not show up, and so she made
a purely Yoker move showed up anyway. She made a presence, no,
not by coming backstage to which John a good show.
She kept a distance, but she did send a Guardinia
backstage to John. At this point, I was thinking, oh
my god, he's going to back out. Yeah, he was
(15:02):
already a nervous wreck going into this thing, and no
Yoko and the Gardinias much too much, you know. I
took the stage of my band and opened the show
with Funeral for a Friend and Love Lives Bleeding. The
sold out cry of twenty people were on their feet
and singing to every chorus. The place was electric, the
noise was deafening. Meanwhile, John was puking his guts out backstage. Headaches, nausea, formatting,
(15:31):
more headaches, more nosier, more vomiting up. I don't know
if yourself medicating with anything, but if he was, it
wasn't helping. He was pale, the shirt collar was wet.
My band kept rolling, Take Me to the Pilot. Benny
and the Jets burned down the mission. We were about
(15:52):
nine or ten songs into our set when I decided
it was time to bring out John. I couldn't save
him for an encore surprise. I was worried if I
didn't just pull the trigger on it sooner rather than later,
he'd get cold feet for real and disappear. I looked
over to the side of the stage where John was
standing out of sight, looking like he was about to
(16:13):
throw up or bolt, or maybe both. I gave John
a wink and a nod, and then looked out on
the crowd and spoken to the microphone. It's our great
privilege and your great privilege to see and here Mr
John Lennon and John Lena. John walked onto the stage
(16:38):
wearing dark sunglasses, a black shirt, black suit with Yoko's
white Guardinia stuck through the button hurle of his jacket. Now,
let me tell you, I have been in front of
some of the biggest crowds at some of the biggest shows,
and I have I've never heard an audience react like that.
(17:00):
They've roared, they screamed, just world, post good money. I
could only imagine it was a bit like experienced even
the original beatle Mania, you know. Once the crowd settled
a bit, we launched into Whatever gets You through the Night,
the very song that had made this whole thing possible,
and then we followed that up with Lucy and the
(17:21):
Sky with Diamonds, and I saw her standing there. John
had successfully blown the cop website, so he came back
out with us. During the encore, he and Bernie Torbin
played tambourines on the Bitches Back. It was a transcendent moment,
absolutely beautiful. No one knew it at the time, but
(17:46):
that will be the last time John would ever play
a concert like that again. Six years later he was
gone and My Madison Square Garden show was his swan song.
Perhaps been more incredible, however, is what happened immediately after
the show. John and Yoko reconciled. Eleven months later, Sean
(18:08):
was born, and I was asked to be Shaun's godfather.
And this is exactly why I say that the day
I first met John Lennon in Tony King's office at
the Capitol, I knew it was something truly unique, something special.
I knew great things were going to come from our relationship.
(18:31):
I believe I was put in John's life at that
precise moment to make all those things happen. Perhaps I
was a talisman, a good luck friend, because soon after
all those things happened, I didn't see John much anymore,
and that's when things changed. That's when things got really dark.
(19:00):
We'll be right back after this word word. Do you know?
A Roman? Polanski filmed Rosemary's baby the Dakota, the one
in same Dakota where John and Yoko lived. But now
(19:22):
maybe it's just me, but I couldn't live in a
place like that. Not only was it a location for
a creepy movie, but it looked creepy enough and in
real life to warrant it's used in a creepy movie.
And then all the stuff about Robert Ryan's wife who
died there, Yoko suspected that maybe the ghost of this
woman didn't appreciate her and John living there, and this
(19:44):
ghost was doing things to make them feel unwanted world.
Yoko even saw a psychic about whatever was going on
at the Dakota, a Tarot card reader. Ironic, isn't it,
given the John famously saying he did believe in Tara. Anyway,
the Tara reader didn't necessarily cure the Dakota of its creepiness,
(20:06):
but he told something to Yoka very disturbing. He said,
your husband sleeps in blood. I'm telling you all of
this because there was something very strange going on amongst
the preferey of John's life. A lot of it couldn't
be explained. A lot of it was probably incidental or coincidental.
(20:32):
A lot of it I didn't really think about until later.
But for example, after the show Madison Square Garden, some
of us went to the Pierre Hotel on his sixty
one Street for a drink. It was me and John Reid,
who was both my manager and my lover at the time.
John and Yoko and Tony King. It was late, it
(20:54):
was a Thursday night, Thanksgiving night. You're a Gala showed
up at our table at some do you know You're
Agether the mind reader illusionist. He was there bending silver
air that was laid out on the tables, the usual
floating in and out of conversations, gravitating to those who
obviously didn't know his stick and were therefore most liable
(21:15):
to drop their jaws to the floor when Uri read
their mind or bent a fought backwards with his own mind.
He started reading minds, which is always quite entertaining because
of the looks unsuspecting people make when they realize they
need to quickly figure out a way to hide all
the dirty things they're thinking at that very moment, and
(21:36):
then subsequently realized that there is literally no way to
hide your thoughts from a person who can read your mind.
If you can actually read mind simply unbelievably. In fact,
I'm not sure what I trust to what I believe
about Uri. But that night at the Pierre Urie and
John started talking on alood shot than never come out.
(21:58):
John had recently given an interview to well to himself
in a way. This was an interview magazine, which was
Andy Warhols magazine. The interview was with John Lennon and
conducted by Dr Winston o' boogie, which people may or
may not have realized at the time was really debauched
alias John had gone under for quite some time. In
(22:21):
the interview, John claimed that he saw a UFO flying
around New York City from the window of his apartment. First.
The issue of Interview had just come out that month,
in November seventy four, and Ury was very interested in
talking to John Moore about UFOs. He was a big
believer in the existence of aliens all that. So the
(22:41):
two of them began talking at the corner of the table.
Jury made John feel comfortable by telling him that he
believed John's story that he himself had seen UFOs or
even photographed UFOs. John became so comfortable. It turns out
that Jury says John told him even more. John said
(23:02):
that one night he was lying in bed at the
Dakota he us alone, a bright light slowly lists up
the outline of the bedroom door, which was closed. The
light was so bright the door appeared to be glowing itself.
John got himself out of bed, walked over to the
door and opened it, and there, silhouetted against this blinding
(23:25):
white light, were four figures. They weren't people, There were
beings otherworldly. They reached out for his hands and his
legs and guided him forward through the apartment. Only they
weren't in the apartment anymore. They were They were walking
down this path of bright light that played scenes from
his life in a series of small screens to his left,
(23:48):
his right, above him, and below him. He watched his
entire life in a flash, from Liverpool to London, to
New York and beyond. The figures gave something to him,
but didn't see what it was. Then they guided him
back to the bedroom. When they left, John realized there
was something heavy in his hands. He opened up and
(24:10):
looked down, and in his palms was a ball of
metal in the shape and size of an egg. Did
this actually happen? I can't confirm or deny. I haven't
talked with the Rian years and this is something I
had second or third or fourth hand from that evening,
(24:31):
not that I was in a sober state on that
evening or any evening around that time to remember anything
correctly or coherently. Have you ever seen a ufo another
worldly figure in your house that shows your entire life
on playback? John and I never talked about UFOs. In fact,
I thought the interview magazine was John taking the piston,
(24:54):
pretending to be a believer, because as we know, he
didn't believe in much besides himself and Yoko and Sean
and the people who are meaningful to him. But what
if there were other things he believed? Would you believe that?
What if we thought we knew everything about John Lennon
(25:16):
but in reality we didn't know him at all. It
(25:50):
wasn't until he got the cuckoo clock home that he
realized it wasn't actually a cuckoo clock after all. So
what would one call it a cuckoo clock? Upon intended,
of course, because instead of a wooden cuckoo springing forth
at the top of every hour, clock produced a wooden
penis a big one. Elton John found the clock hysterical,
(26:12):
and it made him think of the one person who
shared his same sense of humor. It would make the
perfect gift. John and Yoko's apartment at the Dakota Cooperative
Building at the northwest corner of seventy two Street in
Central Park West and Manhattan's Upper West Side was full
of trinkets from the couple's travels, guitars, antique couches, a
(26:33):
warlords or jukebox, priceless artwork. Elton figured that the clock
would fit right in with John and Yoko's bohemian bric
a brac style. Elton included a card with the gifted
clock that reveled in the brand of humor that he
and John shared. Imagine six apartments. It isn't hard to do.
One is full of fur coats, another's full of shoes.
(26:54):
Years later, Elton John stood inside the Dakota Building, in
the middle of John and Yoko's apartment and saw the
cheeky clock displayed amongst other fanciful collectibles. The clock brought
back memories, good memories. He needed the good memories because
these days it seemed like one bad memory was the
only memory that hung around It was the early nineteen eighties,
(27:18):
and John Lennon had been dead for a few years.
In the six years between the fateful Madison Square Garden
show and his assassination, John had seen Elton only a
handful of times. Elton was godfather to John and Yoko's son, Sean,
but while Elton was busy making records and touring, while
John was busy not being busy. In September of nine eight,
(27:42):
Elton played a show in Central Park half a million people,
his largest crowd to date. He played Imagine in John's
honor and hoped that John was sitting on his roof
deck on the edge of Central Park and could hear
his song wafting through the warm September air lay her.
That night, John Yoko reconnected with Elton at a post
(28:03):
gig party. Little did Elton no it would be the
last time he would ever see John alive. Just two
months later, John was gunned down outside the Dakota, and
now Elton John stood inside the Dakota. It was two
Probably Elton had stopped keeping track. His steady diet of vodka,
(28:24):
martinis and coke helped blurred days into weeks and weeks
in two years Yoko Ono had asked him to come
over to the Dakota to see her. She had tapes,
tapes of music that John had been working on before
he was shot. The tapes were unfinished. She needed someone
to finish them. She wanted Elton to finish them. But
Elton couldn't do it. He didn't even want to hear them.
(28:46):
He didn't want the temptation. Elton John didn't want to
be the one who funked up the legacy of John Lennon,
the guy who couldn't make a decent meal out of
some leftovers. Elton wrote music to Bernie Topen's words, that's
what he knew. Fact. The duo wrote the song empty
Garden about John's murder, one part eulogy to their departed friend,
(29:06):
one part condemnation of the murderer. It's one of the
standout tracks on Elton's most overlooked jump up album from
But what Yogo was asking Now? This ask was too big,
too far outside Elton's comfort zone, so Elton turned Yogo down.
(29:27):
Yogo finished the tapes on her own with the help
of producer Jack Douglas, and the postumus John and Yoko
album Milk and Honey was released in January of but
Jack Douglas didn't see his name in the liner notes.
Yoko had left it out on purpose because Yoko was
embroiled in a court case that same year when Jack
Douglas suited her to the tune of three point five
(29:47):
million dollars. That was the amount Douglas claimed he was
owed for unpaid royalties on both Milk and Honey and
Double Fantasy, the record John released right before his death.
Yogo claimed the con tract was fraudulent. The jury sided
with Douglas in order to Yoko to pay him more
than two point five million dollars in back royalties. The
(30:08):
case was settled just months after Milk and Honey had
been released, and as they say, I'll press is good press.
Though not as critically successful as Double Fantasy, Milk and
Honey went to number three on the UK charts and
number eleven on the US charts, where it also went gold.
Milk and Honey didn't radically alter anyone's perception of John's
latter musical years. Serviceable rock songs like I'm Stepping Out
(30:32):
and Nobody Told Me would have fit in just fine
on Double Fantasy. It wasn't a career reinvention. It didn't
flip the script or offer a new perspective on the
person everyone thought they knew. No one knew that Elton
John had almost made his own mark on the songs,
and thus no one knew what said mark would have
sounded like, Not even Elton John. Reinvention was years in
(30:53):
the rear view for John Lennon. Reinvention happened right before
the birth of Sean, right before John won his fight
to remain in the United States, and it could only
have happened in New York City. It happened in nineteen
seventy five. That was John Lennon's last gasp as a
creative revolutionary, before Elton John and the rest of the
(31:13):
world lost sight of him. In John made a last
minute decision to join a recording session which would put
him unexpectedly in the nexus of New York City's avant
garde and at the forefront of New York City's pop scene.
That same session elevated the American profile of another British
rock star seeking to make another of his many own reinventions,
(31:36):
and it happened amidst more chaos, drugs, death and disorder
were constants along with the unexpected, the unexplained. If you
look back on that year, in that time, you can
still see the residue of what happened, what was lost,
what was one, what's gone forever, and what remains. It's
(31:56):
all still there, hidden deep within the Blood on the Tracks.
All right, everybody, thanks for listening to Blood on the Tracks.
(32:18):
If you like what you hear, be sure to find
and follow Blood on the Tracks on Apple podcast, I
Heart Radio, app, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts.
On this season two of Blood on the Tracks, we'll
be releasing ten episodes on the incredible life of John Lennon,
with a new episode every Thursday. You can also binge
all ten episodes of season one on the insane story
(32:39):
of the notorious record producer Phil Spector right now. It's
available wherever you get your podcast. This episode of Blood
on the Tracks was written by Zeth Lundi and hosted
an executive produced by me Jake Brennan, also executive produced
by Brady sad Story and copy editing by Pat Heally.
This episode was mixed by Colin Fleming. Additional music and
score elements by Ryan Spreaker. This episode featured Rob Kendrick
(33:03):
as Elton John. Blood on the Tracks is produced by
Double Elvis and partnership with I Heart Radio. Sources for
this episode are available at Double Elvis dot com on
the Blood on the Tracks series page. If you want
to chat about this show or hear more about the
other shows, we're making a Double Elvis tap in on
Instagram at double Elvis, on Twitter at double Elvis fm,
(33:24):
and now on Twitch where we're streaming three days a
week at Twitch dot tv slash Double Elvis Podcasts. And finally,
be sure to check out disgrace Land, the award winning
music and true crime podcast that I also host. Disgraceland
is available only on the free Amazon Music. To hear
tons of insane stories about your favorite musicians getting away
(33:44):
with murder and behaving very badly, go to Amazon dot
com slash disgrace lamb, or if you have an Echo device,
just say Alexa play the disgrace Land podcast. Black Amm
That Crazy,
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Decisions, Decisions
Welcome to "Decisions, Decisions," the podcast where boundaries are pushed, and conversations get candid! Join your favorite hosts, Mandii B and WeezyWTF, as they dive deep into the world of non-traditional relationships and explore the often-taboo topics surrounding dating, sex, and love. Every Monday, Mandii and Weezy invite you to unlearn the outdated narratives dictated by traditional patriarchal norms. With a blend of humor, vulnerability, and authenticity, they share their personal journeys navigating their 30s, tackling the complexities of modern relationships, and engaging in thought-provoking discussions that challenge societal expectations. From groundbreaking interviews with diverse guests to relatable stories that resonate with your experiences, "Decisions, Decisions" is your go-to source for open dialogue about what it truly means to love and connect in today's world. Get ready to reshape your understanding of relationships and embrace the freedom of authentic connections—tune in and join the conversation!