March 15, 2025 • 23 mins
Our guest is Amy Owen AKA Pineapple Lawyer – a civil rights attorney who has worked several major cases alongside Ben Crump as well as many high-profile clients.
In the first half of the show, we talk about the increase in hate crimes since the election of Donald Trump. We also discuss how his administration is actively stripping away civil rights, and what steps people can take in the event they end up facing hate or discrimination.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Broadcasting from the Hip Hop Weekly Studios. I'd like to
welcome you to another episode of Civic Cipher, where our
mission is to foster allyship, empathy and understanding. I am
your host, Ramsey's job. Big shout out to Qboard, who
is still out of town handling business, but he has
assured me and everyone else that he will be back
(00:20):
next week, so we will be back to business as usual.
But have no fear. He has left us in capable hands.
Today we are joined by the one, the only, Amy
Owen aka Pineapple Lawyer. And for those that don't know,
Amy Owen is a civil rights attorney who has worked
major civil rights cases alongside Benjamin Crump. And she's known
(00:40):
for working alongside professional athletes and celebrities and other high
profile individuals. For those that are unfamiliar, you can find
her online as Pineapple Lawyer. Jeff And you know we
near and dear to our hearts, so welcome back to
the show.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Thank you so much, Ramseys, thanks for having Civic Cipher
is one of my favorites of.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Course, yeah yeah. And then today we're going to be
talking about arise in hate crimes. We're going to have
a conversation about obviously the current administration and the undoing
of certain civil rights, certain logical, linear pieces of legislation
(01:27):
that really made the world safer for black and brown
and marginalized people. And we're going to have a conversation
with a lawyer who kind of works in this space
and determine how we can be maybe a little bit
more safer. Of course, we can't have conversations about everyone's
individual circumstances in their lives, but it's certainly a good
idea to have conversations like this with someone who's a
(01:47):
little bit more informed and engaged toward that end. So
stick around for that and a whole lot more. I'm
really excited to have this conversation because I think that
a lot of people are going to learn some things
that they can take with them over the next four years.
But before we get started there, it's time for some
Ebony excellence. And today's Ebony excellence comes from the Black
Information Network. Today we're shouting out Maxwell Frost, Florida Representative.
(02:11):
Frost was silenced and faced threat of removal after he
called President Donald Trump a grifter during a house meeting.
The threat came on February twenty fifth, so I understand
this is a little old, but we're just getting to it.
From Kentucky Representative James Comer, the House Oversight and Government
Reform Committee chair, who took issue with Frost calling out
Trump and ally Elon Musk for abusing their power. Quote,
(02:35):
people like the grifter and Chief Trump and President Musk
are openly using their public offices to enrich themselves to
the tune of billions of dollars, Frost said during Tuesday's
House meeting. It goes on to say, so, if we
want to look at waste, fraud, and abuse, which I'm
down to do, why is there a complete silence on
the other side of the aisle about looking at the
complete grifter that is the President of the United States
(02:55):
and the richest man on earth? He added. Komer asked
Frost if he sought to quote revise your remark with
respect to improperly identifying the President of the United States unquote,
Frost says, I'll say President Musk and grifter in Chief Trump.
Virginia Representative Jerry Connolly told Comer that he didn't believe
that mister Musk is protected by the rules of the
(03:17):
House or the committee. Quote, we're looking at the disparaging
the president. Now Comer replied, but I don't believe mister
Frost disparaged the President. I believe he disparaged mister Musk,
Connolly said. Frost doubled down on his stance again, calling
out Trump for engaging in grifting. Quote President Musk and
the President of the United States, Donald Trump, who was
(03:38):
engaging in drifting. Grifting, Sorry of the American people often
use their public offices to enrich themselves. And so the
reason that this is ebony excellence is because you wanted
a spine, you wanted some pushback, you wanted something, and
this I hesitate to call it something, but it's not nothing. Okay,
(04:00):
we're going to fight as much as we can. So
shout out to Representative Frost.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Okay, yeah, he's stood on business right. He wasn't going
to be quieted.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
So you know, Okay, So, Amy Owen, what a world
we live in?
Speaker 2 (04:16):
A time to be alive?
Speaker 1 (04:18):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, And you know, one of the things
that I think is really important is for you to
tell a little bit about your story so people kind
of get an idea of who it is that we're
listening to today. Now, I did mention that you work
with Benjamin Crump, but you know, talk about how long
(04:39):
you've been a lawyer, you know what motivated you, you
know all that sort of stuff, just so people kind
of get more of an idea of who we're talking about.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
That sure, well, I think it started when I was
a young child. I was always about equality, right. I
tell a story about being in fifth grade and the
principle was going to give me an award and wanted
to send me home for my shorts being too short.
And I said, well, send the whole school home then,
because everybodys shorts are too short. So it started a
(05:06):
long time ago that I believed in equal treatment of everyone.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Right.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
I grew up in a you know, in a white family.
That was difficult. So I always had to fight for
my own you know rights, and for the rights of
those that weren't white, I guess, even in my own family,
and then adopted correct So, you know, going to law
school for me was an empowering move because the law
(05:32):
touches everything. And now I'm able to use that power
and that law degree to help people who are discriminated
against or who are you know, in car accidents and
injured as well. So injuries come in lots of different forms, right,
And I really love helping people and that's my main thing.
(05:52):
So Pineapple Lawyer is my personal brand, and I use
that to market and brand myself because people can remember that.
Nobody forgets pineapp Yeah, you're right, you're going to forget
Owen Law Firm.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
That's boring.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
There's law firms of every other name. But so I
use that platform in order to get my message out
there and to make sure that people know how to
find me at any time, especially when they're in a
really bad situation. A lot of my celebrity clients, my
professional athlete clients, and their families reach out because you know,
(06:23):
everybody says, well, do you know Pineapple Lawyer? Oh yeah,
I met her, you know, out at the All Star Game,
or I met her at this concert or that concert.
So it's a really great way for people to remember
me and call me in their times you need.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
Yeah, And I've you know, I've seen kind of how
that works because I've seen, you know, a number of
your videos going viral. You're giving out little bits and
pieces of advice and so forth, and that's part of
the reason why you know, we felt like you would
be a great person to have this conversation with, so
we won't keep the people waiting you. Thank you now.
(06:58):
Q sent over this story a while back, and we
knew that once the election had taken place and it
was determined that Donald Trump was going to be the
next president, there was a spike in hate crimes, right,
and you know, it was a sign of, you know,
(07:20):
things to come. And obviously during his last administration we
saw something very similar. It really emboldens a base of
people that feel very much entitled and feel like they
that black and brown and marginalized bodies should be subject
to their whims. Okay, what stood out to this from
(07:43):
this story that Q sent over is that this was
in California, a place that's generally known for being a
very liberal place. Right. So I'm going to share a
bit from ABC ten. Hate incidents in California are on
the rise, according to a new report from the Commission
on This State of Hate. Quote, we have a problem
with racism in the United States unquote, said Russell Roibau,
(08:07):
chair of the Commission on the State of Hate, as
hate incidents in California are increasing. The report says nearly
seventy percent are reported as violent offenses, while less than
thirty percent are property crimes. The Black community remains the
most targeted group in California, with anti Black hate crimes
increasing more than twenty seven percent between twenty twenty one
(08:27):
and twenty twenty two, outpacing the overall increase in hate crimes,
which rose by twenty percent. Hate crimes against the Latino
community also saw a six point six percent increase. What's
the first thing someone should do? Oh, okay, let me
stop right here before we get there now. I also
read elsewhere in the article that there was incidents of
(08:51):
religious hate crimes. Particularly. It just stands out of my
mind Muslim American individuals and Jewish people as well. And
this is something that once upon a time we felt like, Okay,
(09:15):
if something happens that's along the lines of a hate crime,
there exists a political infrastructure to protect us. And this
political infrastructure is in place to conceivably prevent these sorts
of things from happening in the first place. Now, with
this current administration, everybody's sense of how safe they are
(09:39):
is compromised. Okay, So let's put ourselves in the shoes
of an individual who now feels as though there's less
in the way of protection. If you feel like something
has happened to cause you harm as a result of
(10:02):
your race, sexual orientation, religion, etc. What are some of
the things, like, let's just start at the beginning. What
are some things that people should know about and maybe
some steps people should take if they're confronted with a
situation like this.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
I love that question, Ramses. I do get asked that
a lot. The number one thing I tell everyone is
your cell phone is your greatest weapon. Take that thing
out and film whatever is happening, or if you're being detained,
have other people around you roll their cell phone cameras
because you can't dispute things that are on video.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
Right.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
So that's almost like having a gun in a war.
That arms you with facts. It arms you with proof
of what these people are doing that is horrific or discriminatory.
And Ben and I actually Ben Crump and I actually
spoke about this. He was in town, I believe it
was last month, and I said, you know, it's kind
(11:04):
of depressing what's going on, right, And I said, I'm
telling everyone to make sure that they roll their cell phones.
And he said, yes, that's the number one thing to do.
And also, you know, don't be afraid of reporting it.
Even if you think that the checks and balances aren't there,
you can still send a letter or post about it
(11:24):
on your social media. I don't always want people to post,
because sometimes that's your leverage if you're going to bring
a lawsuit. But a lot of these companies are afraid
of being called out because people will both boycott, Like
look at Target right, look at the different businesses that
people are starting to say, hey, I'm not going to
(11:45):
buy things from there, So you hit them in their pockets.
So even if you think, okay, the laws are changing
and my lawsuit may get dismissed by the Trump administration
and the judges that are out there, you cannot stop
the economic damn that will happen to a company if
they're boycotted, or if somebody says, you know, this hotel
(12:05):
did this to me, or this restaurant did that to me,
and you report that to the hotel themselves, right, they
that might strike some fear into the hotel that hey,
this is going on. It might blow up in our faces.
Their risk management people are going to get that letter.
They're at least going to read it right, So don't
(12:25):
give up completely. Yes, some of the checks and balances
with the court systems and having an administration who's kind
of okay, this is going to make the battle harder
for people like myself who represent people in this situation.
But that doesn't mean it's over. And these court cases
last for years, so we can kind of outlast the administration,
(12:46):
if you will, in some ways. Right, So I think
justice will still be served ultimately.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
And I'm glad you said that because that's one of
the things that I've been saying to people. I'm going
to share gears just a bit here. Of course, we're
talking about, you know, hate crimes and discrimination, that sort
of thing. Well, we're kind of talking about them both.
It was originally it was hate crimes. We're going to
get to discrimination. But I'm glad you took us there. No, no, no, no,
I'm glad you took us there. But while we're here,
(13:14):
I think you make an excellent point in terms of
how politics works in this country. Lawsuit can last longer
than people. Sorry, a lawsuit can last longer than people
(13:35):
can be president. And you know, I'm a very petty
person and I hold grudges very well. Right, So places
like Target, places like Walmart, places like Amazon. Right, I cannot,
for the life of me believe that what they what
they did by kind of undoing their DII policies to
(13:58):
like bow down and kill Syring. Like even if Donald
Trump was the president for the rest of his life,
he's what seventy eighty years old something like that, he's
going to be dead soon.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
Right.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
Black people are going to be here a lot longer
than Donald Trump. And all of those companies have to
come back down this street. And remember what I said,
I'm very very petty, and I hold grudges very well.
So when Walmart tries to do their Juneteenth whatever, Nope,
I'm not shopping there. When Amazon is like, hey, we're
you know whatever, I'm not shopping there, right, you know, right,
(14:34):
And that's in terms of the economics. So I'm glad
you mentioned that. Now, let's let's revert back hate crimes. Well,
so let's say that you know, a person has kind
of suffered some sort of injury and they are you know,
(14:57):
we had a gentleman on the show. This was years ago,
but he came up and he said, you know, the
police came to my house. They were looking for someone else.
They thought that they had him, but they had me,
and then they beat me up in my house. They
knocked out my teeth. He's like, this is why I
sound like this. And he's like, now I'm trying to
(15:22):
like get some support, get some lawyers, get somebody to
take this case. As like, I have no money, I
have no idea what to do. And he's like, I'm
very fortunate that I was able to even get a
hold of you. So in a place like California, and
I'm sure places all around the country, because again California,
you would imagine this would be kind of on the
lower end of the increase in those sorts of things.
(15:44):
What are some like first steps, not in the immediate
aftermath after you've kind of had your cell phone and
all that sort of stuff. What does a person do?
Do you have to you need a ton of money
to get a lawyer? Do you need you know? How
does this work?
Speaker 2 (15:56):
So, of course every case is different, but the main
thing would be to document your injuries. Take pictures of
like bruising or bleeding or broken bones, get medical treatment,
make sure that your medical treatment states in your records
that this was caused by someone doing something that was hateful,
(16:20):
or you know, just tell the facts of how it happened,
like somebody bashed my face in with a brick, and
I think that it was racially motivated. So the more
information that you give to the medical providers, the better
your medical records will be. So for me, since I'm
a personal injury and a civil rights lawyer, having good
medical records that describe exactly how someone's injury happened is
(16:43):
very important. So I would say that people who are
injured in that way be very careful how you state
your injuries to the treating providers. Get that medical all
that medical treatment, and then you know, keep a notebook
of everything that you miss, talk about your feelings like
(17:05):
missed works, if you miss a family reunion, or you
miss a trip or something like that. Document everything because
that goes into what's called your damages. So a lawyer
is going to only take a case where the damages
are high enough that I know that I can get
you a lot of money because you have, you know,
ten thousand dollars in medical bills, you have twenty thousand
(17:26):
dollars in lost wages. Things like that. If your damages
are only you go to the urgent care and it's
two hundred dollars and then you're back on your feet
in a couple weeks. Those damages are going to be
a lot less than somebody who lost a bunch of
teeth and has to get dental work to the tune of,
you know, twenty thousand dollars. Of course, those damages are
going to be higher. So it's very important for victims
(17:47):
of these types of crimes to get the medical care
and then keep all those bills and records, you know,
at your disposal, so that when you go to ask
a lawyer to represent you, you can say, hey, I
have amount of medical bills because a lot of times
as lawyers, we get a ton of calls and we
(18:08):
need people who are succinct who can communicate to us
exactly how you are injured and what you want to
be done. Do you want to be made whole through
monetary damages? Do you want that company or that business
to issue an apology. Would you like to see changes
in their policies about the way that they handle situations
like that. There's a lot of different ways to be
(18:29):
made whole, right, But I would say to our listeners
or to your listeners. You need to make sure that
you're documenting things. And then it does sometimes take money
hire a lawyer. And then other times we do what's
called contingency fee, and we will work to settle your
case without any money up front. But that's going to
be a really good case that we know that we
(18:51):
can win. Lawyers aren't going to be able to take
every single case. Sometimes I get, you know, ten twenty
thirty calls or emails in a week, but they're all
cases that I'm not going to be able to win
because there's maybe not enough evidence or the damages are
so low. And I tell people, hey, there's the Office
of Accountability, right, go and talk to them. They might
(19:12):
be able to send a letter for you or something.
But I'm so busy as a lawyer trying to fight
some of the other cases. I can't take every single
case on contingency. So your questions multifaceted. But there are
lawyers who can take it if it's egregious enough. And
you know, of course Ben Crump, he gets thousands of
calls a day and he takes the ones where people die.
(19:35):
People are you know, really seriously injured. Sure, and I
mean it sounds sad that the damages have to be
really high in order for certain attorneys to take it.
But those are the cases that move the needle and
help us to change the way the world.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
Yeah, and then the country works. Okay, that makes sense.
I did want to ask about kind of the thing
that distinguishes a regular assault type of thing or some
other sort of transgression from a bon fight hate crime.
(20:14):
And my understanding so far is that if two guys
get in the fight and one of them happens to
be a different race than the other guy, and they
just get into a fight with each other or one
assaults the other one, you know, and they happen to
be a different race, then that's just an assault charge.
It doesn't become a hate crime until they either say
(20:34):
something that's like racially derogatory or otherwise have some sort
of something linking them to I guess what would fall
under the umbrella of hate? Do I have that correct?
Speaker 2 (20:46):
Absolutely? It would be maybe if the two guys are
getting in the fight and one of the guys is
using a racially explicit term towards the other person, or
saying I hate all of you blank, so and There's
there's times when those facts come out later too, you know,
(21:08):
like you might not know why this person is upset
with this particular individual. And then a lot of times
with social media and everything, you can go research someone
and oftentimes it's implied, I would say, but to be
categorized as a hate crime, there's definitely boundaries and specific
(21:28):
pointers that have to be met in order for it
to be a hate crime.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
Okay, okay, yeah, this is something that you know, I'm
beginning to understand that you know, a lot of people.
It's just like you you know, people reach out to
us on the show Myself and Q and they will
tell us their stories and you know, we have an
hour a week and yes we can bring some attention
(21:54):
to it, but we just don't have the time and
the bandwidth to tell every story. And so it's those
stories that we feel like, can we can get a
response from what, you know, whatever, we can get some
positive outcome for these folks that we try to you know,
share with people. But at the end of the day,
(22:15):
you know, if it if we can't get to everyone,
it's good so that they have this type of advice
and they know what they can do on their own
because again, we cannot highlight every single, you know, instance
of you know, a transgression or some sort of assault
or something like that, because you know, people do get jumped,
they get beat up, they get you know, all kinds
of stuff, and you know, we hear about it, we
(22:36):
get to in our inbox, and so you know, we
appreciate just kind of the the once sober. I know
it wasn't very long, and I know you're going to
stick around for the next part of the show, but
you know, I want to make sure that we plug
you one more time. It's Pineapple Lawyer on all platforms.
Lock in and get yourself educated, y'all.
Broadcasting from the Hip Hop Weekly Studios. I'd like to
welcome you to another episode of Civic Cipher, where our
mission is to foster allyship, empathy and understanding. I am
your host, Ramsey's job. Big shout out to Qboard, who
is still out of town handling business, but he has
assured me and everyone else that he will be back
(00:20):
next week, so we will be back to business as usual.
But have no fear. He has left us in capable hands.
Today we are joined by the one, the only, Amy
Owen aka Pineapple Lawyer. And for those that don't know,
Amy Owen is a civil rights attorney who has worked
major civil rights cases alongside Benjamin Crump. And she's known
(00:40):
for working alongside professional athletes and celebrities and other high
profile individuals. For those that are unfamiliar, you can find
her online as Pineapple Lawyer. Jeff And you know we
near and dear to our hearts, so welcome back to
the show.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Thank you so much, Ramseys, thanks for having Civic Cipher
is one of my favorites of.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Course, yeah yeah. And then today we're going to be
talking about arise in hate crimes. We're going to have
a conversation about obviously the current administration and the undoing
of certain civil rights, certain logical, linear pieces of legislation
(01:27):
that really made the world safer for black and brown
and marginalized people. And we're going to have a conversation
with a lawyer who kind of works in this space
and determine how we can be maybe a little bit
more safer. Of course, we can't have conversations about everyone's
individual circumstances in their lives, but it's certainly a good
idea to have conversations like this with someone who's a
(01:47):
little bit more informed and engaged toward that end. So
stick around for that and a whole lot more. I'm
really excited to have this conversation because I think that
a lot of people are going to learn some things
that they can take with them over the next four years.
But before we get started there, it's time for some
Ebony excellence. And today's Ebony excellence comes from the Black
Information Network. Today we're shouting out Maxwell Frost, Florida Representative.
(02:11):
Frost was silenced and faced threat of removal after he
called President Donald Trump a grifter during a house meeting.
The threat came on February twenty fifth, so I understand
this is a little old, but we're just getting to it.
From Kentucky Representative James Comer, the House Oversight and Government
Reform Committee chair, who took issue with Frost calling out
Trump and ally Elon Musk for abusing their power. Quote,
(02:35):
people like the grifter and Chief Trump and President Musk
are openly using their public offices to enrich themselves to
the tune of billions of dollars, Frost said during Tuesday's
House meeting. It goes on to say, so, if we
want to look at waste, fraud, and abuse, which I'm
down to do, why is there a complete silence on
the other side of the aisle about looking at the
complete grifter that is the President of the United States
(02:55):
and the richest man on earth? He added. Komer asked
Frost if he sought to quote revise your remark with
respect to improperly identifying the President of the United States unquote,
Frost says, I'll say President Musk and grifter in Chief Trump.
Virginia Representative Jerry Connolly told Comer that he didn't believe
that mister Musk is protected by the rules of the
(03:17):
House or the committee. Quote, we're looking at the disparaging
the president. Now Comer replied, but I don't believe mister
Frost disparaged the President. I believe he disparaged mister Musk,
Connolly said. Frost doubled down on his stance again, calling
out Trump for engaging in grifting. Quote President Musk and
the President of the United States, Donald Trump, who was
(03:38):
engaging in drifting. Grifting, Sorry of the American people often
use their public offices to enrich themselves. And so the
reason that this is ebony excellence is because you wanted
a spine, you wanted some pushback, you wanted something, and
this I hesitate to call it something, but it's not nothing. Okay,
(04:00):
we're going to fight as much as we can. So
shout out to Representative Frost.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Okay, yeah, he's stood on business right. He wasn't going
to be quieted.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
So you know, Okay, So, Amy Owen, what a world
we live in?
Speaker 2 (04:16):
A time to be alive?
Speaker 1 (04:18):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, And you know, one of the things
that I think is really important is for you to
tell a little bit about your story so people kind
of get an idea of who it is that we're
listening to today. Now, I did mention that you work
with Benjamin Crump, but you know, talk about how long
(04:39):
you've been a lawyer, you know what motivated you, you
know all that sort of stuff, just so people kind
of get more of an idea of who we're talking about.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
That sure, well, I think it started when I was
a young child. I was always about equality, right. I
tell a story about being in fifth grade and the
principle was going to give me an award and wanted
to send me home for my shorts being too short.
And I said, well, send the whole school home then,
because everybodys shorts are too short. So it started a
(05:06):
long time ago that I believed in equal treatment of everyone.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Right.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
I grew up in a you know, in a white family.
That was difficult. So I always had to fight for
my own you know rights, and for the rights of
those that weren't white, I guess, even in my own family,
and then adopted correct So, you know, going to law
school for me was an empowering move because the law
(05:32):
touches everything. And now I'm able to use that power
and that law degree to help people who are discriminated
against or who are you know, in car accidents and
injured as well. So injuries come in lots of different forms, right,
And I really love helping people and that's my main thing.
(05:52):
So Pineapple Lawyer is my personal brand, and I use
that to market and brand myself because people can remember that.
Nobody forgets pineapp Yeah, you're right, you're going to forget
Owen Law Firm.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
That's boring.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
There's law firms of every other name. But so I
use that platform in order to get my message out
there and to make sure that people know how to
find me at any time, especially when they're in a
really bad situation. A lot of my celebrity clients, my
professional athlete clients, and their families reach out because you know,
(06:23):
everybody says, well, do you know Pineapple Lawyer? Oh yeah,
I met her, you know, out at the All Star Game,
or I met her at this concert or that concert.
So it's a really great way for people to remember
me and call me in their times you need.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
Yeah, And I've you know, I've seen kind of how
that works because I've seen, you know, a number of
your videos going viral. You're giving out little bits and
pieces of advice and so forth, and that's part of
the reason why you know, we felt like you would
be a great person to have this conversation with, so
we won't keep the people waiting you. Thank you now.
(06:58):
Q sent over this story a while back, and we
knew that once the election had taken place and it
was determined that Donald Trump was going to be the
next president, there was a spike in hate crimes, right,
and you know, it was a sign of, you know,
(07:20):
things to come. And obviously during his last administration we
saw something very similar. It really emboldens a base of
people that feel very much entitled and feel like they
that black and brown and marginalized bodies should be subject
to their whims. Okay, what stood out to this from
(07:43):
this story that Q sent over is that this was
in California, a place that's generally known for being a
very liberal place. Right. So I'm going to share a
bit from ABC ten. Hate incidents in California are on
the rise, according to a new report from the Commission
on This State of Hate. Quote, we have a problem
with racism in the United States unquote, said Russell Roibau,
(08:07):
chair of the Commission on the State of Hate, as
hate incidents in California are increasing. The report says nearly
seventy percent are reported as violent offenses, while less than
thirty percent are property crimes. The Black community remains the
most targeted group in California, with anti Black hate crimes
increasing more than twenty seven percent between twenty twenty one
(08:27):
and twenty twenty two, outpacing the overall increase in hate crimes,
which rose by twenty percent. Hate crimes against the Latino
community also saw a six point six percent increase. What's
the first thing someone should do? Oh, okay, let me
stop right here before we get there now. I also
read elsewhere in the article that there was incidents of
(08:51):
religious hate crimes. Particularly. It just stands out of my
mind Muslim American individuals and Jewish people as well. And
this is something that once upon a time we felt like, Okay,
(09:15):
if something happens that's along the lines of a hate crime,
there exists a political infrastructure to protect us. And this
political infrastructure is in place to conceivably prevent these sorts
of things from happening in the first place. Now, with
this current administration, everybody's sense of how safe they are
(09:39):
is compromised. Okay, So let's put ourselves in the shoes
of an individual who now feels as though there's less
in the way of protection. If you feel like something
has happened to cause you harm as a result of
(10:02):
your race, sexual orientation, religion, etc. What are some of
the things, like, let's just start at the beginning. What
are some things that people should know about and maybe
some steps people should take if they're confronted with a
situation like this.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
I love that question, Ramses. I do get asked that
a lot. The number one thing I tell everyone is
your cell phone is your greatest weapon. Take that thing
out and film whatever is happening, or if you're being detained,
have other people around you roll their cell phone cameras
because you can't dispute things that are on video.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
Right.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
So that's almost like having a gun in a war.
That arms you with facts. It arms you with proof
of what these people are doing that is horrific or discriminatory.
And Ben and I actually Ben Crump and I actually
spoke about this. He was in town, I believe it
was last month, and I said, you know, it's kind
(11:04):
of depressing what's going on, right, And I said, I'm
telling everyone to make sure that they roll their cell phones.
And he said, yes, that's the number one thing to do.
And also, you know, don't be afraid of reporting it.
Even if you think that the checks and balances aren't there,
you can still send a letter or post about it
(11:24):
on your social media. I don't always want people to post,
because sometimes that's your leverage if you're going to bring
a lawsuit. But a lot of these companies are afraid
of being called out because people will both boycott, Like
look at Target right, look at the different businesses that
people are starting to say, hey, I'm not going to
(11:45):
buy things from there, So you hit them in their pockets.
So even if you think, okay, the laws are changing
and my lawsuit may get dismissed by the Trump administration
and the judges that are out there, you cannot stop
the economic damn that will happen to a company if
they're boycotted, or if somebody says, you know, this hotel
(12:05):
did this to me, or this restaurant did that to me,
and you report that to the hotel themselves, right, they
that might strike some fear into the hotel that hey,
this is going on. It might blow up in our faces.
Their risk management people are going to get that letter.
They're at least going to read it right, So don't
(12:25):
give up completely. Yes, some of the checks and balances
with the court systems and having an administration who's kind
of okay, this is going to make the battle harder
for people like myself who represent people in this situation.
But that doesn't mean it's over. And these court cases
last for years, so we can kind of outlast the administration,
(12:46):
if you will, in some ways. Right, So I think
justice will still be served ultimately.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
And I'm glad you said that because that's one of
the things that I've been saying to people. I'm going
to share gears just a bit here. Of course, we're
talking about, you know, hate crimes and discrimination, that sort
of thing. Well, we're kind of talking about them both.
It was originally it was hate crimes. We're going to
get to discrimination. But I'm glad you took us there. No, no, no, no,
I'm glad you took us there. But while we're here,
(13:14):
I think you make an excellent point in terms of
how politics works in this country. Lawsuit can last longer
than people. Sorry, a lawsuit can last longer than people
(13:35):
can be president. And you know, I'm a very petty
person and I hold grudges very well. Right, So places
like Target, places like Walmart, places like Amazon. Right, I cannot,
for the life of me believe that what they what
they did by kind of undoing their DII policies to
(13:58):
like bow down and kill Syring. Like even if Donald
Trump was the president for the rest of his life,
he's what seventy eighty years old something like that, he's
going to be dead soon.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
Right.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
Black people are going to be here a lot longer
than Donald Trump. And all of those companies have to
come back down this street. And remember what I said,
I'm very very petty, and I hold grudges very well.
So when Walmart tries to do their Juneteenth whatever, Nope,
I'm not shopping there. When Amazon is like, hey, we're
you know whatever, I'm not shopping there, right, you know, right,
(14:34):
And that's in terms of the economics. So I'm glad
you mentioned that. Now, let's let's revert back hate crimes. Well,
so let's say that you know, a person has kind
of suffered some sort of injury and they are you know,
(14:57):
we had a gentleman on the show. This was years ago,
but he came up and he said, you know, the
police came to my house. They were looking for someone else.
They thought that they had him, but they had me,
and then they beat me up in my house. They
knocked out my teeth. He's like, this is why I
sound like this. And he's like, now I'm trying to
(15:22):
like get some support, get some lawyers, get somebody to
take this case. As like, I have no money, I
have no idea what to do. And he's like, I'm
very fortunate that I was able to even get a
hold of you. So in a place like California, and
I'm sure places all around the country, because again California,
you would imagine this would be kind of on the
lower end of the increase in those sorts of things.
(15:44):
What are some like first steps, not in the immediate
aftermath after you've kind of had your cell phone and
all that sort of stuff. What does a person do?
Do you have to you need a ton of money
to get a lawyer? Do you need you know? How
does this work?
Speaker 2 (15:56):
So, of course every case is different, but the main
thing would be to document your injuries. Take pictures of
like bruising or bleeding or broken bones, get medical treatment,
make sure that your medical treatment states in your records
that this was caused by someone doing something that was hateful,
(16:20):
or you know, just tell the facts of how it happened,
like somebody bashed my face in with a brick, and
I think that it was racially motivated. So the more
information that you give to the medical providers, the better
your medical records will be. So for me, since I'm
a personal injury and a civil rights lawyer, having good
medical records that describe exactly how someone's injury happened is
(16:43):
very important. So I would say that people who are
injured in that way be very careful how you state
your injuries to the treating providers. Get that medical all
that medical treatment, and then you know, keep a notebook
of everything that you miss, talk about your feelings like
(17:05):
missed works, if you miss a family reunion, or you
miss a trip or something like that. Document everything because
that goes into what's called your damages. So a lawyer
is going to only take a case where the damages
are high enough that I know that I can get
you a lot of money because you have, you know,
ten thousand dollars in medical bills, you have twenty thousand
(17:26):
dollars in lost wages. Things like that. If your damages
are only you go to the urgent care and it's
two hundred dollars and then you're back on your feet
in a couple weeks. Those damages are going to be
a lot less than somebody who lost a bunch of
teeth and has to get dental work to the tune of,
you know, twenty thousand dollars. Of course, those damages are
going to be higher. So it's very important for victims
(17:47):
of these types of crimes to get the medical care
and then keep all those bills and records, you know,
at your disposal, so that when you go to ask
a lawyer to represent you, you can say, hey, I
have amount of medical bills because a lot of times
as lawyers, we get a ton of calls and we
(18:08):
need people who are succinct who can communicate to us
exactly how you are injured and what you want to
be done. Do you want to be made whole through
monetary damages? Do you want that company or that business
to issue an apology. Would you like to see changes
in their policies about the way that they handle situations
like that. There's a lot of different ways to be
(18:29):
made whole, right, But I would say to our listeners
or to your listeners. You need to make sure that
you're documenting things. And then it does sometimes take money
hire a lawyer. And then other times we do what's
called contingency fee, and we will work to settle your
case without any money up front. But that's going to
be a really good case that we know that we
(18:51):
can win. Lawyers aren't going to be able to take
every single case. Sometimes I get, you know, ten twenty
thirty calls or emails in a week, but they're all
cases that I'm not going to be able to win
because there's maybe not enough evidence or the damages are
so low. And I tell people, hey, there's the Office
of Accountability, right, go and talk to them. They might
(19:12):
be able to send a letter for you or something.
But I'm so busy as a lawyer trying to fight
some of the other cases. I can't take every single
case on contingency. So your questions multifaceted. But there are
lawyers who can take it if it's egregious enough. And
you know, of course Ben Crump, he gets thousands of
calls a day and he takes the ones where people die.
(19:35):
People are you know, really seriously injured. Sure, and I
mean it sounds sad that the damages have to be
really high in order for certain attorneys to take it.
But those are the cases that move the needle and
help us to change the way the world.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
Yeah, and then the country works. Okay, that makes sense.
I did want to ask about kind of the thing
that distinguishes a regular assault type of thing or some
other sort of transgression from a bon fight hate crime.
(20:14):
And my understanding so far is that if two guys
get in the fight and one of them happens to
be a different race than the other guy, and they
just get into a fight with each other or one
assaults the other one, you know, and they happen to
be a different race, then that's just an assault charge.
It doesn't become a hate crime until they either say
(20:34):
something that's like racially derogatory or otherwise have some sort
of something linking them to I guess what would fall
under the umbrella of hate? Do I have that correct?
Speaker 2 (20:46):
Absolutely? It would be maybe if the two guys are
getting in the fight and one of the guys is
using a racially explicit term towards the other person, or
saying I hate all of you blank, so and There's
there's times when those facts come out later too, you know,
(21:08):
like you might not know why this person is upset
with this particular individual. And then a lot of times
with social media and everything, you can go research someone
and oftentimes it's implied, I would say, but to be
categorized as a hate crime, there's definitely boundaries and specific
(21:28):
pointers that have to be met in order for it
to be a hate crime.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
Okay, okay, yeah, this is something that you know, I'm
beginning to understand that you know, a lot of people.
It's just like you you know, people reach out to
us on the show Myself and Q and they will
tell us their stories and you know, we have an
hour a week and yes we can bring some attention
(21:54):
to it, but we just don't have the time and
the bandwidth to tell every story. And so it's those
stories that we feel like, can we can get a
response from what, you know, whatever, we can get some
positive outcome for these folks that we try to you know,
share with people. But at the end of the day,
(22:15):
you know, if it if we can't get to everyone,
it's good so that they have this type of advice
and they know what they can do on their own
because again, we cannot highlight every single, you know, instance
of you know, a transgression or some sort of assault
or something like that, because you know, people do get jumped,
they get beat up, they get you know, all kinds
of stuff, and you know, we hear about it, we
(22:36):
get to in our inbox, and so you know, we
appreciate just kind of the the once sober. I know
it wasn't very long, and I know you're going to
stick around for the next part of the show, but
you know, I want to make sure that we plug
you one more time. It's Pineapple Lawyer on all platforms.
Lock in and get yourself educated, y'all.
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