June 7, 2025 • 22 mins
Today’s guest, Ami Horowitz is an American conservative documentary filmmaker and activist. He is the writer, producer, and director of Ami on the Loose, a satirical short film series. He is also the host of the recent documentary The Art of War—a look into the practices of the IDF
In the second half of the show, Ami explains how a person can be opposed to what the majority of Black people want to see politically, and not be racist. He also takes the time to explain his issues with diversity, equity, and inclusion initiatives and why he believes they are problematic.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Keep on riding with us as we continue to broadcast
the balance and defend the discourse from the Hip Hop
Weekly Studios. Welcome back to Civic Cipher. I'm your host,
Rams's job. Big shout out to q Ward who is
out on the road making it happen with the change makers.
And we will be back in the studio together next week.
But for now, we have a dear friend of the show.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Amy Horwitz, with us.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
For those who don't know, Amy is an American conservative
documentary filmmaker and activist. He is the writer, producer, and
director of Amy on the Loose, a satirical short film series.
He is also the host of the recent documentary The
Art of War, a look into the practices of the IDF.
And we are in the middle of having a conversation
that well can serve as an example of how to
(00:43):
communicate with people who feel differently than you. Insofar as
our politics are concerned. Amy and I have committed to
loving each other no matter what, and that has forced
us to see the human in each other over the politics,
and so stick around to see how we navigate these waters.
But before we get back to it, it's time to
be aba, become a better allied Boba and today's Bobba.
(01:05):
I want to shout out Stephanie Calabrisi and the film
Unspoken for those that don't know. Unspoken is a powerful
and insightful documentary feature film that explores the impact of
racial division in a small southern town, particularly in relation
to the nineteen forty six more Ford lynching, which is
considered the last mass lynching in America. Through the iPhone
(01:26):
camera lens of residents Stephanie Calabrisi, the film uncovers buried
truths and shed the light on the secrecy that still
surrounds this tragic event, as well as the ongoing impact
of segregation, the civil rights movement, and the integration of
schools and society in Monroe, Georgia. Source from forty interviews
with fellow residents and extensive research, Unspoken offers a nuanced
(01:47):
and complex understanding of the historical factors that have contributed
to the racial divide in the town, as well as
contemporary challenges that continue to perpetuate it. By bringing these
issues to the surface, the film aims to inspire dialogue
focused on race, relationship divisions and opportunities for reconciliation and
hometowns across America. Unspoken is an important and timely work
that has the potential to create meaningful change and contribute
(02:09):
to a deeper understanding of the complex and ongoing impact
of racism in America. Unspoken is now streaming on Amazon
Prime Video in the US and the UK, and you
can find out more at Unspoken dot film. And Stephanie
is another friend of the show, and her take on
(02:30):
this incident in this town is very special. You get
to see the world through the lens of a white
woman as she learns how her journey can be more
meaningful and more impactful, as she grows in her role
as an ally, and as she learns as a human
(02:51):
being on a journey. And it's a very special film,
So I employ you ought to see it once again
Unspoken dot Film. All right, Ami, Now, when we're last talking,
you mentioned that basically the reason why Trump's approval rating
(03:11):
with Republicans is very similar to why Biden's approval rating
was higher among liberals, and that's that, you know, whoever
has their guy in the office, they're expecting the guy
to do what they want, and if they're delivering on
that agenda or those objectives, then they seem to be happy,
which is a fantastic response. And the rest of the world,
(03:36):
I think, if I may be so bold, is looking
at some of the things that maybe he did not promise,
some of the things that maybe were unexpected. You know,
a lot of what people expected was straight out of
the pages of Project twenty twenty five. Right, So anything
(03:57):
that comes out of Project twenty twenty five seems on
brand for Donald Trump. He would say it's Agenda forty seven.
But of course the architects of Project twenty twenty five
are all over his cabinet, and there is a collective agenda,
whether or not anyone admits to it, it very much
mirrors the kind of the thrust of Project twenty twenty
five to rework the government in the image of a
(04:18):
decidedly conservative regime.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
Now, by the way, if I.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
May, is the job of every every administration, left or right.
That's their job. Their goal is to make remake the
government as much as they can the image of their philosophy.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
You could argue that.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
You could argue that, but so in Donald Trump's Big
Beautiful Bill, for instance, And this is something that I've
seen quite a bit from the right, from Republicans. There
is a clause and I had it up on Google yesterday.
I could pull it back up, but it was section seven.
It was a five digit number, Section seven something or.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
Other, and.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Buried in this big, beautiful bill was effectively an out
for federal agents, federal actors from prosecution by federal judges.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Right, And that kind of flies in the face.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
Of kind of the the I guess the premise of
the founding documents in this country that set up, you know,
checks and balances in our government. Right, there's no branch
that is going to be unchecked. We will have no kings, right.
And I think this and things like this I find
(05:41):
to be very commonplace. There are things that just kind
of come out of left field. When it comes to
Donald Trump, Terraff's come to mind. He talked about tariffs
quite a bit, but his approach to tariffs, that strong
armed approach that subjects everybody to that to what end
it remains to be seen, is not something that the
majority of people signed up for. And so to still
(06:05):
have that, I guess that high of an approval rating
relative to the rest of the people who are looking
at this, like yo, okay, So he's the president. What
is all this stuff coming out of left field? That's
the part that feels a little crazy. So I'm appreciative
of you know, you're kind of given that insight, and
(06:27):
you know your point is made that you know, it's
incumbent upon every administration to kind of rework the government
in such a way that they can accomplish whatever it
is they set out to accomplish. But based on everything
that I know that I've been made aware of in
my lifetime, this is very different.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
There are things that are being reworked in a way that.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
Feel like they fly in the face of what this
country is about. Donald Trump has famously talked about running
for a third term. He's walked it back, of course,
a few times, and then walked it out again, and
there's people around.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
Him that support that.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
So this, this whole administration feels a little strange. You
go ahead and respond to that because I talked for
a little bit, and then I want to switch gears
one more time.
Speaker 3 (07:09):
Don't that's a troll, right, I mean, don't don't fall
into the trap that that Trump wants you to follow
the trap into, because obviously it's a pro he's not
he's not looking to do to run for a third term.
No one's supporting that. He Look, let me say this,
one of the one of the biggest issues that I
(07:32):
don't spend enough time talking about, but it really is
one of the most important issues to me, is the
outrageous growth of executive power. I think that executive the
growth and executive power, the growth of the power of
the presidency, specifically through executive orders, that has been growing
exponentially with every president, right, every president. Yes, this this
(07:56):
president has done more executive orders than Joe Biden. Joe
Biden more than the than Barack Obama. Barack Obama did
more than George Bush and so forth and so on.
I think it is dangerous. I think it is one
of the things that we have to spend. And by
the way, it's and I think it's a non Parson issue.
I think people there's there's no politics to it. I
(08:20):
think both sides should come together and say we have
to arrest this growth in presidential power. I don't like it,
and I think it's dangerous. So yeah, I'm not a
big fan of a lot of things that the president
has done, even particularly the increase of executive power. But
he's done nothing different or out of order than the
prior president to him, and the prior president before that.
(08:42):
I think all of that is dangerous and all of
it needs to be stopped. I think the fact we
have three branch of government was created for a reason,
and I think that when you curtail the power of one,
it is not good for this country.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
Okay, so that's fair. Now I'm gonna I'm gonna. I
want to lean into this a little bit if I can.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
So.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
I am black, all of my hair should give that away.
And I work with marginalized communities, with Native communities, with
women with lgbtq i A plus individuals, with religious minorities.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
With you know, you name it.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
Historically in this country, black people have had kind of
the loudest voice and been able to go first. And
so my philosophy has always been, Hey, if I can
get in the door, I'm going to try to bring
as many of you guys with me. We'll try to
affirm our right to an equitable goal in this country.
Donald Trump one of the things that he's done that
is so sweeping and so fundamentally different from any other president,
(09:46):
including Reagan, Nixon. These guys that were on the phone,
calling black people monkeys and wondering why we wore shoes
and all that sort of stuff.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Factual.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
Wait, who said that?
Speaker 2 (09:57):
Reagan and I just it just came up again and news.
This is an old story.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
But Reagan and Nixon had a phone call that was recorded,
and they you know, people forget that their calls are recorded.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
But they had to go to.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
Some global summit and they were recapping it and they
were talking about the leaders from African countries and they
were impressed at the leaders from the African countries and
they were like, yeah, I'm surprised they were wearing shoes.
You know, I thought they'd be like monkeys or whatever.
And you could look that up yourself.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
It's why. Yeah, yeah, please, but and you listen, please
look it up.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
I stand by it. I was just as shocked years
ago when I saw it, and you know, was shocked
again when I when I came across again. But anyway,
so Donald Trump, more than even those people, has had
this relentless attack on DEI. Right now, you agree with
(10:53):
a lot of things that the conservative moment is calling for,
so we don't need to get into those weeks particularly,
but an attack on DEI diversity, equity, and inclusion. I
want to make sure I say that because those words matter.
An attack on diversity, equity and inclusion in the United
States of America is one thing, unconscionable as it may be,
(11:20):
it's one thing. The overreach, however, has spilled into institutions that,
traditionally speaking, lie beyond the influence of the president to
specifically carry out that agenda. Right there are people who
are black, been black under a number of presidents, doing
(11:41):
a job, and this administration seeks them out and replaces
them because they now have a justification or rallying cry.
They can say this is DEI. We don't need any
DEI or woke nonsense. I guess they want sleep nonsense.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
But go through and fire people, and some of these
people I know, And that's the part of at least people
I met in DC, you know, And obviously museums and
institutions that are really meaningful to my people, places I
can take my children and show them we're more than
just the numbers. We're more than just this data that
says that we do everything bad and we're always sick
and nothing good happens for us.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
But no there's a story here.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
We're not just born to be bad and everything wrong
happens to us. No, there are things that have happened
along the way that have resulted in the data that
you you are interpreting, and these things help frame the picture,
so you are valuable. There are conditions that have placed
our people in these circumstances. Right, that's important. That context
is important for black children and for all children. Right,
(12:42):
and these things have been attacked by this administration. Now,
before you jump in on me, we could extend that.
We could have conversations. We did have a conversation about
you know, pronouns and trans athletes for some reason, athletes.
How many trans athletes exist? We have this kind of
not a lot, but you know, it affects all trans
(13:02):
people because it shapes their reality.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
Right.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
We could have conversations about immigration. We could have conversations
about you know, people's rights to protest on school campuses
or in general. We could have conversations about attacks on
free press. We could have a number of conversations and
we do. I want to say this. I want everybody
(13:26):
listening to hear me. Amy Horowitz is my friend. Amy
Horowitz is my brother. Okay, Amy Horowitz loves my children.
Ami Horowitz is a supporter of this show, even though
he doesn't agree with anything I'm talking about on the show.
And I'm a supporter of Amy. I love Amy's mom,
I love what Amy stands for. I think that Amy
is a good human being. Amy is not a racist.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
Man. I'm a living, breathing testament to that fact.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
With that said, I'm going to ask you this question,
and I want you to answer it for the benefit
of our listeners so that they can learn from you
and me.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
Okay, you with me?
Speaker 1 (13:58):
Okay, How you are not racist? Given everything I've said?
How is it that you believe in everything that is
the opposite of what the majority, the vast majority of
black people want? How is it that that does not
How can you explain that that is not fundamentally anti black?
Speaker 2 (14:20):
The floor is yours.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
Okay, it's a fair question. It's a great question, And
I will say, I mean, there's a lot to unpack
on what you said, right, Sorry, that's all right. I'll
try to get to as much as I can remember
without taking doubts. First of all, DEI and you said
words are important. I could not agree more. Diversity, equity,
(14:45):
and inclusion. And I will say to you at that
word that's being sandwiched between diversity and inclusion is a
very dangerous word. Equity, not equality. Equity equity fundamentally the
difference and equity is massive. It's massive. Equity means that
(15:06):
everyone ends up in the same place. I just don't
believe that's a reality. I don't believe that's something we
should try for Equality, that everyone has the same opportunity
is the word that I feel emotionally connected to and
feels the more important word. Look, the name Thomas Soul
(15:28):
is a name most people don't know.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
I know you did.
Speaker 3 (15:32):
And I would say Thomas Soul is not the most
important black thinker. He's not the most important or not
the greatest conservative thinker. I would argue Thomas Soul is
the greatest thinker we have in America today. Happens to
be a black ben right, and he talks about this
stuff at nausey. There's a reason why Donald Trump, and
(15:55):
you said almost all black people believe in these things.
I don't know if you're right. I don't Donald Trump
got a forty increase in the black vote.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
Yeah, increase real quick, Tommy, let's let's let's let's make
that number live.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
I want you to continue.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
That forty increase in the black vote still resulted in
eighty three percent of Black men voting for Kamala Harrison
ninety two percent of Black women voting for Kamala Harris.
So it's still a razor thin. No, No, it's a
small not for sure small number of people black people.
Speaker 3 (16:26):
But go ahead, twelve to seventeen percent is a big jump.
I know because the number because so many Black people
voted Democrat for so many years. Yes, of course, ultimately
the number is is is the vast majority is still
voting for Democratic policies. But they had four years to
see Donald Trump in a first term and they still
increase their vote for the man. I think that says
(16:48):
a lot ultimately. Let me look, I'm going to continue
with what I'm saying, but let me ask you one
quick question. Maybe it's not a quick question. Okay, you
know what, never mind, let me let me let me
lady canah ahead, Okay. Obviously everything what I'm saying is
(17:08):
coming from a place of good right again, not what
we taught before, not malice, right, You know that what
I'm saying not coming from malice. I do believe that
DDI does retard the growth of anybody who's trying to excel,
(17:29):
whether it be black or Hispanic, or Jewish or wherever.
I think those kind of policies are not positive policies.
And I'll give you an example when when you when
the UC system used University of California school system, they
abolish affirmative action in nineteen ninety six, and that was
a huge outcry saying it's going to destroy black education
(17:49):
in California. And look, we didn't have any data, and
there was an argument that that's true, right, And at
the time I was probably I don't remember exactly about
I'm sure I was for taking off of her of action.
And the truth is, the first few years after nineteen
ninety six, up in two two thousand, the black student
population the UC system, which is probably the best public
school universe system in the country, went down quite a bit.
(18:13):
Looking back thirty years ahead, it's incredible what it does
for the black community. The numbers actually have not changed
that much. In fact, there's a bit of an increase
that there's about a twenty percent increase in black enrollment
in the UC system overall. After the abolishment of affirmative
action in the system, even in the really good schools
in Berkeley went down quite a bit. UCLA a grade school,
(18:35):
it actually went up, and by the way, and also
the failure rate of black students went down significantly in
the UC system. So I'm only using that as an
example because I don't really know a lot of the
data beyond that. But I'm from California. At the time,
I was very interested. I still am. The play of
the black community, as you know, means a lot to me.
(18:55):
I do a lot of videos on race and the
black community because it's important as a society. We cannot
succeed as a country with having an entire community fifteen
percent of the community being held down. That's not good
for just from a selfish perspective of the country, never
mind what's better or not better for black people. From
a self centered perspective, what's better for a country. We
(19:16):
need black people to succeed. We can't afford to have
that big a chunk of our country being held down.
And obviously, for a moral perspective, we can't do this.
So what I'm saying all these things come from perspective
of I want as much success for all minorities and
all people in America in general. But I've seen that
these things have ultimately overall helped and by the way,
(19:37):
DEI also comes at a cost. And I'll give you
an example, a personal example. The Jewish population in Universe
in Ivy League schools were over a third twenty five
years ago, and as the black student population has increased,
because they have continued to use DEI in a firm
of action in their policies, jewishters have been cut in
(19:59):
half half of what they were before. And I'm not
saying that's Look, I'm not saying we don't want more
black people in Ivy League schools. I want that and
we need that. I just don't think DUI is the
way to do it.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
Okay, So just because we're running out of time, I'm
gonna jump in here and we have to kind of
wrap things up. Thank you for sharing that perspective. I
want to make sure that that stated. There are a
lot of people who don't know that people that oppose diversity,
(20:31):
equity and inclusion have a logical linear argument for it.
They just simply think that these people are morally bankrupt.
Some of them are a lot of them are, but
there are people such as yourself that can make a
logical argument based on the data that they have collected
and the interpretations of that data to arrive at the
(20:55):
conclusions that you've arrived at. Now, it would be irresponsible
of me not to respond. So I have to say
a couple of.
Speaker 3 (21:03):
Things, and I would expect nothing less.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
The equity versus equality thing. I think that that's the
most important thing that I want to speak to here.
Equality is something that is very difficult to accomplish without equity,
And if you're familiar with the monopoly experiments, then this
(21:30):
would make a lot of sense to you. But if
you've been able to play the game longer than I have,
with all the rules working in your favor, and I
have not been able to and then all of a
sudden you say, okay, everything's fair. Start from zero, and
you have a head start, You've already bought up a
lot of properties, etc. And I'm just trying to have
(21:50):
a go in it, it becomes very challenging for me
to gain any ground and to be compared to you
in terms of the data, like how is my community
doing versus is your community?
Speaker 2 (22:01):
For the sake of equality.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
It presents some complicated factors, and I really want to
get to more of this, so we're just going to
have to have you back on.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
But giving us that insight into.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
The fact that there is at least something there, I
think that's important.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
I don't you know this.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
I don't like platforming dangerous ideas, but I do trust you,
and I do appreciate you letting us know that despite
being misinformed or underinformed, or maybe having a different idea
of what to do with the same set of data,
that you know people can be good people at the
(22:43):
same time. So do me a favorite, Amy shout out
to your social media before we let you go.
Speaker 3 (22:47):
Just my name, Amy Horo. It's at all the major platforms, all.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
Right, and then don't forget. You can find me on
all social media.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
At Rams's job of course, at civicxciphone, all platforms, and
until next week, y'all. Peace,
Keep on riding with us as we continue to broadcast
the balance and defend the discourse from the Hip Hop
Weekly Studios. Welcome back to Civic Cipher. I'm your host,
Rams's job. Big shout out to q Ward who is
out on the road making it happen with the change makers.
And we will be back in the studio together next week.
But for now, we have a dear friend of the show.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Amy Horwitz, with us.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
For those who don't know, Amy is an American conservative
documentary filmmaker and activist. He is the writer, producer, and
director of Amy on the Loose, a satirical short film series.
He is also the host of the recent documentary The
Art of War, a look into the practices of the IDF.
And we are in the middle of having a conversation
that well can serve as an example of how to
(00:43):
communicate with people who feel differently than you. Insofar as
our politics are concerned. Amy and I have committed to
loving each other no matter what, and that has forced
us to see the human in each other over the politics,
and so stick around to see how we navigate these waters.
But before we get back to it, it's time to
be aba, become a better allied Boba and today's Bobba.
(01:05):
I want to shout out Stephanie Calabrisi and the film
Unspoken for those that don't know. Unspoken is a powerful
and insightful documentary feature film that explores the impact of
racial division in a small southern town, particularly in relation
to the nineteen forty six more Ford lynching, which is
considered the last mass lynching in America. Through the iPhone
(01:26):
camera lens of residents Stephanie Calabrisi, the film uncovers buried
truths and shed the light on the secrecy that still
surrounds this tragic event, as well as the ongoing impact
of segregation, the civil rights movement, and the integration of
schools and society in Monroe, Georgia. Source from forty interviews
with fellow residents and extensive research, Unspoken offers a nuanced
(01:47):
and complex understanding of the historical factors that have contributed
to the racial divide in the town, as well as
contemporary challenges that continue to perpetuate it. By bringing these
issues to the surface, the film aims to inspire dialogue
focused on race, relationship divisions and opportunities for reconciliation and
hometowns across America. Unspoken is an important and timely work
that has the potential to create meaningful change and contribute
(02:09):
to a deeper understanding of the complex and ongoing impact
of racism in America. Unspoken is now streaming on Amazon
Prime Video in the US and the UK, and you
can find out more at Unspoken dot film. And Stephanie
is another friend of the show, and her take on
(02:30):
this incident in this town is very special. You get
to see the world through the lens of a white
woman as she learns how her journey can be more
meaningful and more impactful, as she grows in her role
as an ally, and as she learns as a human
(02:51):
being on a journey. And it's a very special film,
So I employ you ought to see it once again
Unspoken dot Film. All right, Ami, Now, when we're last talking,
you mentioned that basically the reason why Trump's approval rating
(03:11):
with Republicans is very similar to why Biden's approval rating
was higher among liberals, and that's that, you know, whoever
has their guy in the office, they're expecting the guy
to do what they want, and if they're delivering on
that agenda or those objectives, then they seem to be happy,
which is a fantastic response. And the rest of the world,
(03:36):
I think, if I may be so bold, is looking
at some of the things that maybe he did not promise,
some of the things that maybe were unexpected. You know,
a lot of what people expected was straight out of
the pages of Project twenty twenty five. Right, So anything
(03:57):
that comes out of Project twenty twenty five seems on
brand for Donald Trump. He would say it's Agenda forty seven.
But of course the architects of Project twenty twenty five
are all over his cabinet, and there is a collective agenda,
whether or not anyone admits to it, it very much
mirrors the kind of the thrust of Project twenty twenty
five to rework the government in the image of a
(04:18):
decidedly conservative regime.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
Now, by the way, if I.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
May, is the job of every every administration, left or right.
That's their job. Their goal is to make remake the
government as much as they can the image of their philosophy.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
You could argue that.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
You could argue that, but so in Donald Trump's Big
Beautiful Bill, for instance, And this is something that I've
seen quite a bit from the right, from Republicans. There
is a clause and I had it up on Google yesterday.
I could pull it back up, but it was section seven.
It was a five digit number, Section seven something or.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
Other, and.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Buried in this big, beautiful bill was effectively an out
for federal agents, federal actors from prosecution by federal judges.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Right, And that kind of flies in the face.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
Of kind of the the I guess the premise of
the founding documents in this country that set up, you know,
checks and balances in our government. Right, there's no branch
that is going to be unchecked. We will have no kings, right.
And I think this and things like this I find
(05:41):
to be very commonplace. There are things that just kind
of come out of left field. When it comes to
Donald Trump, Terraff's come to mind. He talked about tariffs
quite a bit, but his approach to tariffs, that strong
armed approach that subjects everybody to that to what end
it remains to be seen, is not something that the
majority of people signed up for. And so to still
(06:05):
have that, I guess that high of an approval rating
relative to the rest of the people who are looking
at this, like yo, okay, So he's the president. What
is all this stuff coming out of left field? That's
the part that feels a little crazy. So I'm appreciative
of you know, you're kind of given that insight, and
(06:27):
you know your point is made that you know, it's
incumbent upon every administration to kind of rework the government
in such a way that they can accomplish whatever it
is they set out to accomplish. But based on everything
that I know that I've been made aware of in
my lifetime, this is very different.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
There are things that are being reworked in a way that.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
Feel like they fly in the face of what this
country is about. Donald Trump has famously talked about running
for a third term. He's walked it back, of course,
a few times, and then walked it out again, and
there's people around.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
Him that support that.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
So this, this whole administration feels a little strange. You
go ahead and respond to that because I talked for
a little bit, and then I want to switch gears
one more time.
Speaker 3 (07:09):
Don't that's a troll, right, I mean, don't don't fall
into the trap that that Trump wants you to follow
the trap into, because obviously it's a pro he's not
he's not looking to do to run for a third term.
No one's supporting that. He Look, let me say this,
one of the one of the biggest issues that I
(07:32):
don't spend enough time talking about, but it really is
one of the most important issues to me, is the
outrageous growth of executive power. I think that executive the
growth and executive power, the growth of the power of
the presidency, specifically through executive orders, that has been growing
exponentially with every president, right, every president. Yes, this this
(07:56):
president has done more executive orders than Joe Biden. Joe
Biden more than the than Barack Obama. Barack Obama did
more than George Bush and so forth and so on.
I think it is dangerous. I think it is one
of the things that we have to spend. And by
the way, it's and I think it's a non Parson issue.
I think people there's there's no politics to it. I
(08:20):
think both sides should come together and say we have
to arrest this growth in presidential power. I don't like it,
and I think it's dangerous. So yeah, I'm not a
big fan of a lot of things that the president
has done, even particularly the increase of executive power. But
he's done nothing different or out of order than the
prior president to him, and the prior president before that.
(08:42):
I think all of that is dangerous and all of
it needs to be stopped. I think the fact we
have three branch of government was created for a reason,
and I think that when you curtail the power of one,
it is not good for this country.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
Okay, so that's fair. Now I'm gonna I'm gonna. I
want to lean into this a little bit if I can.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
So.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
I am black, all of my hair should give that away.
And I work with marginalized communities, with Native communities, with
women with lgbtq i A plus individuals, with religious minorities.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
With you know, you name it.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
Historically in this country, black people have had kind of
the loudest voice and been able to go first. And
so my philosophy has always been, Hey, if I can
get in the door, I'm going to try to bring
as many of you guys with me. We'll try to
affirm our right to an equitable goal in this country.
Donald Trump one of the things that he's done that
is so sweeping and so fundamentally different from any other president,
(09:46):
including Reagan, Nixon. These guys that were on the phone,
calling black people monkeys and wondering why we wore shoes
and all that sort of stuff.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Factual.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
Wait, who said that?
Speaker 2 (09:57):
Reagan and I just it just came up again and news.
This is an old story.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
But Reagan and Nixon had a phone call that was recorded,
and they you know, people forget that their calls are recorded.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
But they had to go to.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
Some global summit and they were recapping it and they
were talking about the leaders from African countries and they
were impressed at the leaders from the African countries and
they were like, yeah, I'm surprised they were wearing shoes.
You know, I thought they'd be like monkeys or whatever.
And you could look that up yourself.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
It's why. Yeah, yeah, please, but and you listen, please
look it up.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
I stand by it. I was just as shocked years
ago when I saw it, and you know, was shocked
again when I when I came across again. But anyway,
so Donald Trump, more than even those people, has had
this relentless attack on DEI. Right now, you agree with
(10:53):
a lot of things that the conservative moment is calling for,
so we don't need to get into those weeks particularly,
but an attack on DEI diversity, equity, and inclusion. I
want to make sure I say that because those words matter.
An attack on diversity, equity and inclusion in the United
States of America is one thing, unconscionable as it may be,
(11:20):
it's one thing. The overreach, however, has spilled into institutions that,
traditionally speaking, lie beyond the influence of the president to
specifically carry out that agenda. Right there are people who
are black, been black under a number of presidents, doing
(11:41):
a job, and this administration seeks them out and replaces
them because they now have a justification or rallying cry.
They can say this is DEI. We don't need any
DEI or woke nonsense. I guess they want sleep nonsense.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
But go through and fire people, and some of these
people I know, And that's the part of at least people
I met in DC, you know, And obviously museums and
institutions that are really meaningful to my people, places I
can take my children and show them we're more than
just the numbers. We're more than just this data that
says that we do everything bad and we're always sick
and nothing good happens for us.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
But no there's a story here.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
We're not just born to be bad and everything wrong
happens to us. No, there are things that have happened
along the way that have resulted in the data that
you you are interpreting, and these things help frame the picture,
so you are valuable. There are conditions that have placed
our people in these circumstances. Right, that's important. That context
is important for black children and for all children. Right,
(12:42):
and these things have been attacked by this administration. Now,
before you jump in on me, we could extend that.
We could have conversations. We did have a conversation about
you know, pronouns and trans athletes for some reason, athletes.
How many trans athletes exist? We have this kind of
not a lot, but you know, it affects all trans
(13:02):
people because it shapes their reality.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
Right.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
We could have conversations about immigration. We could have conversations
about you know, people's rights to protest on school campuses
or in general. We could have conversations about attacks on
free press. We could have a number of conversations and
we do. I want to say this. I want everybody
(13:26):
listening to hear me. Amy Horowitz is my friend. Amy
Horowitz is my brother. Okay, Amy Horowitz loves my children.
Ami Horowitz is a supporter of this show, even though
he doesn't agree with anything I'm talking about on the show.
And I'm a supporter of Amy. I love Amy's mom,
I love what Amy stands for. I think that Amy
is a good human being. Amy is not a racist.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
Man. I'm a living, breathing testament to that fact.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
With that said, I'm going to ask you this question,
and I want you to answer it for the benefit
of our listeners so that they can learn from you
and me.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
Okay, you with me?
Speaker 1 (13:58):
Okay, How you are not racist? Given everything I've said?
How is it that you believe in everything that is
the opposite of what the majority, the vast majority of
black people want? How is it that that does not
How can you explain that that is not fundamentally anti black?
Speaker 2 (14:20):
The floor is yours.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
Okay, it's a fair question. It's a great question, And
I will say, I mean, there's a lot to unpack
on what you said, right, Sorry, that's all right. I'll
try to get to as much as I can remember
without taking doubts. First of all, DEI and you said
words are important. I could not agree more. Diversity, equity,
(14:45):
and inclusion. And I will say to you at that
word that's being sandwiched between diversity and inclusion is a
very dangerous word. Equity, not equality. Equity equity fundamentally the
difference and equity is massive. It's massive. Equity means that
(15:06):
everyone ends up in the same place. I just don't
believe that's a reality. I don't believe that's something we
should try for Equality, that everyone has the same opportunity
is the word that I feel emotionally connected to and
feels the more important word. Look, the name Thomas Soul
(15:28):
is a name most people don't know.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
I know you did.
Speaker 3 (15:32):
And I would say Thomas Soul is not the most
important black thinker. He's not the most important or not
the greatest conservative thinker. I would argue Thomas Soul is
the greatest thinker we have in America today. Happens to
be a black ben right, and he talks about this
stuff at nausey. There's a reason why Donald Trump, and
(15:55):
you said almost all black people believe in these things.
I don't know if you're right. I don't Donald Trump
got a forty increase in the black vote.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
Yeah, increase real quick, Tommy, let's let's let's let's make
that number live.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
I want you to continue.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
That forty increase in the black vote still resulted in
eighty three percent of Black men voting for Kamala Harrison
ninety two percent of Black women voting for Kamala Harris.
So it's still a razor thin. No, No, it's a
small not for sure small number of people black people.
Speaker 3 (16:26):
But go ahead, twelve to seventeen percent is a big jump.
I know because the number because so many Black people
voted Democrat for so many years. Yes, of course, ultimately
the number is is is the vast majority is still
voting for Democratic policies. But they had four years to
see Donald Trump in a first term and they still
increase their vote for the man. I think that says
(16:48):
a lot ultimately. Let me look, I'm going to continue
with what I'm saying, but let me ask you one
quick question. Maybe it's not a quick question. Okay, you
know what, never mind, let me let me let me
lady canah ahead, Okay. Obviously everything what I'm saying is
(17:08):
coming from a place of good right again, not what
we taught before, not malice, right, You know that what
I'm saying not coming from malice. I do believe that
DDI does retard the growth of anybody who's trying to excel,
(17:29):
whether it be black or Hispanic, or Jewish or wherever.
I think those kind of policies are not positive policies.
And I'll give you an example when when you when
the UC system used University of California school system, they
abolish affirmative action in nineteen ninety six, and that was
a huge outcry saying it's going to destroy black education
(17:49):
in California. And look, we didn't have any data, and
there was an argument that that's true, right, And at
the time I was probably I don't remember exactly about
I'm sure I was for taking off of her of action.
And the truth is, the first few years after nineteen
ninety six, up in two two thousand, the black student
population the UC system, which is probably the best public
school universe system in the country, went down quite a bit.
(18:13):
Looking back thirty years ahead, it's incredible what it does
for the black community. The numbers actually have not changed
that much. In fact, there's a bit of an increase
that there's about a twenty percent increase in black enrollment
in the UC system overall. After the abolishment of affirmative
action in the system, even in the really good schools
in Berkeley went down quite a bit. UCLA a grade school,
(18:35):
it actually went up, and by the way, and also
the failure rate of black students went down significantly in
the UC system. So I'm only using that as an
example because I don't really know a lot of the
data beyond that. But I'm from California. At the time,
I was very interested. I still am. The play of
the black community, as you know, means a lot to me.
(18:55):
I do a lot of videos on race and the
black community because it's important as a society. We cannot
succeed as a country with having an entire community fifteen
percent of the community being held down. That's not good
for just from a selfish perspective of the country, never
mind what's better or not better for black people. From
a self centered perspective, what's better for a country. We
(19:16):
need black people to succeed. We can't afford to have
that big a chunk of our country being held down.
And obviously, for a moral perspective, we can't do this.
So what I'm saying all these things come from perspective
of I want as much success for all minorities and
all people in America in general. But I've seen that
these things have ultimately overall helped and by the way,
(19:37):
DEI also comes at a cost. And I'll give you
an example, a personal example. The Jewish population in Universe
in Ivy League schools were over a third twenty five
years ago, and as the black student population has increased,
because they have continued to use DEI in a firm
of action in their policies, jewishters have been cut in
(19:59):
half half of what they were before. And I'm not
saying that's Look, I'm not saying we don't want more
black people in Ivy League schools. I want that and
we need that. I just don't think DUI is the
way to do it.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
Okay, So just because we're running out of time, I'm
gonna jump in here and we have to kind of
wrap things up. Thank you for sharing that perspective. I
want to make sure that that stated. There are a
lot of people who don't know that people that oppose diversity,
(20:31):
equity and inclusion have a logical linear argument for it.
They just simply think that these people are morally bankrupt.
Some of them are a lot of them are, but
there are people such as yourself that can make a
logical argument based on the data that they have collected
and the interpretations of that data to arrive at the
(20:55):
conclusions that you've arrived at. Now, it would be irresponsible
of me not to respond. So I have to say
a couple of.
Speaker 3 (21:03):
Things, and I would expect nothing less.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
The equity versus equality thing. I think that that's the
most important thing that I want to speak to here.
Equality is something that is very difficult to accomplish without equity,
And if you're familiar with the monopoly experiments, then this
(21:30):
would make a lot of sense to you. But if
you've been able to play the game longer than I have,
with all the rules working in your favor, and I
have not been able to and then all of a
sudden you say, okay, everything's fair. Start from zero, and
you have a head start, You've already bought up a
lot of properties, etc. And I'm just trying to have
(21:50):
a go in it, it becomes very challenging for me
to gain any ground and to be compared to you
in terms of the data, like how is my community
doing versus is your community?
Speaker 2 (22:01):
For the sake of equality.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
It presents some complicated factors, and I really want to
get to more of this, so we're just going to
have to have you back on.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
But giving us that insight into.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
The fact that there is at least something there, I
think that's important.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
I don't you know this.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
I don't like platforming dangerous ideas, but I do trust you,
and I do appreciate you letting us know that despite
being misinformed or underinformed, or maybe having a different idea
of what to do with the same set of data,
that you know people can be good people at the
(22:43):
same time. So do me a favorite, Amy shout out
to your social media before we let you go.
Speaker 3 (22:47):
Just my name, Amy Horo. It's at all the major platforms, all.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
Right, and then don't forget. You can find me on
all social media.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
At Rams's job of course, at civicxciphone, all platforms, and
until next week, y'all. Peace,
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