April 12, 2025 • 23 mins
Our guests are DJ – President of the Black Student Union at the University of Arizona and Ky’Jah – an activist working closely with the Department of African American Student Affairs
In the first half of the show, we talk about the importance of diversity initiatives, the implications of the rollbacks of DEI initiatives on college campuses around the country, and what communities impacted by recent legislation and political threats can do to push back.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Broadcasting from the Hip Hop Weekly Studios. I'd like to
welcome you to another episode of Civic Cipher, where our
mission is to foster allyship empathy and understanding. I'm your host,
ramses Ja. He is Ramsy's Jaw. I am q Ward.
You are tuned into Civic Cipher, Yes you are, and
we want you to stick around because today we are
going to be having a couple of interesting conversations. One
(00:23):
of the things that we haven't really been able to
get to because of the muzzle velocity strategy by the
current administration is how the rollbacks of DEI initiatives have
been affecting students on college campuses around the country. And
(00:43):
today we are going to hear from a couple of
students who are very much active in trying to fight
for what is right, fight for the organizations, and fight
for an inclusive campus. And hearing from them directly, I
think will give us a lot of insight into what's
(01:04):
going on. So today we are going to hear from
DJ who was the president of the Black Student Union
at the University of Arizona, and we're also going to
hear from Kaija, who's an activist working closely with the
Department of African American Student Affairs, and again both organizations
are actively working against the DEI band. We're also going
(01:24):
to have a conversation later in the show where we
try to view this from the other perspective, In other words,
what are some of the criticisms of DEI initiatives that
are found on the right. How is this justifiable to them?
What veneer of truth have they used to dig their
(01:47):
heels in? And you know, these things we need to know.
And I say that in jest. You know, there's some
valid criticisms, of course, but we're going to discuss that
and so much more on this episode of Saying Cipher.
But before we get there, it is time for some ebony.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Excellence, shall we? I think we shall.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Today's ebony excellence comes from the Atlanta Black Star, and
I think this is such a cool story, so I
will share turning down a deal on Shark Tank was
the best business decision for Tim and Kim Lewis. The
Curl Mixed founders appeared on the show in twenty eighteen
for season ten, episode fourteen of the show. Their ask
was four hundred thousand dollars for a ten percent equity
(02:26):
stake in the Black owned and operated hair system. Their
pitch to dry Bar Salon proprietor Ali Webb, Mark Cuban,
Lorie Griner, Kevin.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
O'Leary, and Robert heard Javek.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Sorry, I don't really watch the show too often, included
models demonstrating the efficacy of their flack sea gel that
promises to define curls of all types.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Quote.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
The main issue we have now is we cannot keep
product on the shelf, unquote, said Tim. They projected one
hundred and eighty thousand dollars in profits that year. That declaration,
couple with the fact that it only cost a couple
three dollars to produce one bottle of the jail, which
retails for twenty five dollars, excited the judges. However, Cuban
was the first to bow out her Javek spoke about
(03:08):
the brutally competitive competitive market. Still, he was certain, quote
this is one of the few investments that I think.
I give you the four hundred thousand dollars, You're definitely
going to grow and you're going to get bigger. What
I worry about is the cargoes faster than and then
hits the wall, hits a wall.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Sorry.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Kim shared that Kroll makes this focus on online sales
was one of the ways their business differentiated from competitors. Quote,
you don't have any other choice because you're not going
to get any retail space. There's no way this business
is worth four hundred thousand dollars right now. There's nothing proprietary.
I'm out, interrupted O'Leary.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Well.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
In twenty twenty four, the company entered its third year
of being available for purchase at four hundred and sixty
ault beauty stores nation Why they are currently valued at
an estimated thirty eight million dollars.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
You'll love to see it, so.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
Again, shout out to Tim and Kim Lewis or their
cro mix. All right, it's time to get down to
brass techs. So first off, I want to welcome the
two of you to the show. So welcome DJ and
welcome Kaija. Do us a favor before we get into
the the conversation, just take a minute or so each
(04:25):
and just kind of give us a little bit of
background on both of you. I know that DJ, you're
the president of the Black student union on your campus,
so you know just a little bit more so that
our listeners know who we're talking to today.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
Yeah, Soggra. First, I I am the president of BSU.
That's well known. But what that means for me and
for a lot of students on campus is regular organization,
you know, and finding unity in our spaces. This campus
is very much mixed, and a lot of times there's
(04:58):
no certain organization for students to feel safe and to
feel like there's this space that they can go to.
So my role in what I do on campus a
lot of times is try to find a way for
students to organize and to and to feel safe, you know,
and to talk about the things that they may not
actually always get to say in their classroom or with
(05:19):
their friends. So I try to allow those allow time
and allow spaces for students.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
Perfect.
Speaker 4 (05:31):
Hi, my name's Kaija.
Speaker 5 (05:33):
I'm I'm the president of MAIA Chapter I Delves signdated,
so already incorporate here at the University of Arizona.
Speaker 4 (05:39):
I'm also a Biochem major minory and Italian.
Speaker 5 (05:43):
I am also chemistry biochemistry peer mentor and advisor as
well as a peer information council for the main library
and research associate for Banner. So my whole thing with
being on campus and being here and being the most
senior member as well as are taking in our living
learning communities, which is an entire dorm full of black students,
(06:05):
is to allow us to have a space and to
have the continuance of a space within these pressing times
at a predominant white institution.
Speaker 6 (06:21):
For those that might not know, what does the Black
Student Union do and what are the benefits to the
student body.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
So the Black Student Union, I mean, aside from allowing
a safe space, of course, you know, we often organize
we have weekly meetings on Wednesdays where we usually do
a variety of things. We usually will have things like
Spades Nights, you know, where kids can come and learn
how to play spades and have fun and chill. We
(06:50):
also have had little parties, you know, so things along
those lines. But BSU at its core, BSU is primarily
for Black students, of course, but for any student that
wants to learn about what black culture is like and
learn how to you know, best assist in representing black
(07:14):
black culture in the black community, not necessarily how to
assimilate or how to become a part of the black community,
but to but to best support it and to best
learn how learned what what is really a part of
this rich culture because there's a lot of things that
people may not know on the service level about what
(07:34):
the black community is.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
So kayj, you do me a favorite and actually I
want to hear from both of you, but Kaja, I'd
like you to go first. How have the the nation,
the national like attacks on d I and the rollbacks
on d I have those affected You know your organizations
and you know their capacity to, you know, deliver these
(07:58):
services to the students who are requesting a lot of.
Speaker 5 (08:02):
The problems that we have is to make sure that
the programs that we keep are sustainable. So that's having
a consistent attendance and audience as well as making sure
that we have funding for these.
Speaker 4 (08:13):
Programs that we have here. Without DEI, we wouldn't be
able to have any of that.
Speaker 5 (08:17):
And it comes to small things such as just reserving
spaces in a building.
Speaker 4 (08:21):
How can we do that if we don't have the building.
Speaker 5 (08:24):
So it's things within that we're fighting against. Other organizations
on campus that are not marginalized. We do have the
privilege to go out and have these spaces on a
consistent basis, whereas now we are trying to find that
for ourselves and something that we had we already have
and now.
Speaker 4 (08:42):
It's being taken away.
Speaker 5 (08:45):
Within funding as well, we are given funding through the university.
This is done due grants and everything else which within
DEI those no longer exists. Students are losing their scholarships
and their grants, and organizations on campus are losing their
grants as well.
Speaker 4 (09:00):
And then there's also advisors for.
Speaker 5 (09:03):
These organizations who are who work for the campus, who
are considered DEI hires that are unable to have their job,
which then of course affects their livelihood as well as
livelihoods of the students on the campus that need their support.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Yeah, anything to add DJ.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
Yeah, So I mean, like Haier said, these advisors, it's
it's advisors, faculty staff. We have our own staff here.
So speaking of which, we're actually doing this call from
within the MLK building a cultural resource center on campus
and what and things like this where we are able
(09:47):
to reserve a room to do a meeting, to have
our own events and do things along those lines. We
wouldn't have them with the band of DEI and a
lot of these faculty instea that we have in these
centers would lose their jobs and without without even possibilities
of severance pay or or anything that would allow them
(10:11):
to find another job within the next few weeks. So
they would be fired without condition, you.
Speaker 6 (10:19):
Know, thinking of life as a collegiate, you know, formerly
the national second vice President of the National Paneltic Council,
the vice president of Phive Beta Sigma Fraternity Incorporated, the
Elite Epsilon five Chapter, the vice president of the NAACP
would County Chapter. I know what it's like to feel
(10:41):
the inclusion from being a part of these organizations. Kaider,
from your purview, what are some other organizations besides your
own that you see affected by these executive orders from
the current administration?
Speaker 4 (10:56):
Other organizations.
Speaker 5 (10:58):
One of the jobs I have is I work as
a pure information counselor for the main library in.
Speaker 4 (11:03):
A bunch of the culture resource centers on campus. So
they all have their clubs.
Speaker 5 (11:07):
Without DEI, they wouldn't, like I said before, they wouldn't
have their spaces, they wouldn't have their funding. A lot
of the things they get is support from local businesses.
Speaker 4 (11:19):
And everything else like that.
Speaker 5 (11:20):
But if they are not able to continue having a space,
if they decide to rally against it, which we have
been threatened with expulsion and termination and not be able
to continue our credits, which as.
Speaker 4 (11:30):
A senior here at the university, it's.
Speaker 5 (11:32):
A little daunting, but without it, we wouldn't be able
to continue. There is its complete erasure of our organizations,
us as a people, like there is no opportunity for
us to thrive here.
Speaker 4 (11:48):
There's when you're going to class and you're.
Speaker 5 (11:50):
Seeing people that don't look like you, and you come
back to a space where everyone is able to relate
and have fun and we're experiencing black joy.
Speaker 4 (11:58):
It's difficult to be happy somewhere where you're obviously not accepted.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
Yeah, you know, one of the things that you know,
So to Q's point, you know, I also have the
experience of being like you did you. I was the
president of the Black student union on my campus. And
then you know, further down the line, you know, I
recall being in those enormous lecture halls. I went to
(12:29):
the business school and those those lecture halls, and I
remember being in classrooms where I remember being the only
black person in a classroom. So that's first, but I
also remember, you know, sometimes there might be one or
two other people, but we'd be so far apart that
there'd be no sense of community, there'd be no sense
(12:51):
of you know whatever. And the tough part about that,
at least the way I remember it at a very
different time than what you guys are living through, is
you know, sometimes people would say things and they would
just be wrong, or they would lack perspective, and I
never felt like there were enough of us in a classroom.
(13:12):
Certainly when I was the only one in a classroom
to speak up to say hey, that's not right, or
hey that is a little offensive or whatever, I just
kind of had to take those things on the chin.
There was also this feeling I remember one time I
was in a finance class, and that feeling of am
I smart enough?
Speaker 2 (13:32):
It turns out I absolutely was.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
But you know, when you're struggling personally, you don't have
that sense of community where there's someone else to say, hey,
look I'm going through this too, and you'd be embarrassed
to go to everyone else who doesn't look like you,
and you already carried the stigma that's associated with being black,
like you know, stupid, criminal, all these other things, you know,
a bad student, all that you don't want to go
(13:55):
to someone else and then reinforce the stereotype by asking
for help, right, And so you can be very much
isolated in you know, a c full of people, because
it's that cultural tie that often helps you out of
little things like that. And I named a couple, but
you know, my whole collegiate experience was filled with them,
and I was the president of the Black Student Union, right,
(14:16):
so I know the value full well of community on
a campus. And what I'm trying to get from you,
and you're doing an excellent job, is sharing with our
listeners around the country what that feels like for folks
who haven't had this experience or haven't had this experience recently. Right,
So let's talk about what you've been up to. DJ
(14:37):
will come to you for this one, and then, of course, Kaija,
if you have something to add, please, But what has
been done on campus to combat the ban of d
I Kaija? I remember you mentioned the risks involved, so
you know, I know that they could take your credits
and all this sort of stuff. But what have you
been trying to do to push back against this erasure
and these attacks on you know, your the expression of
(15:01):
your culture and the resources for your culture.
Speaker 3 (15:04):
Yeah, So I'll start off because Kaija has been involved
many things, but from the perspective of Black Student Union
and everything that I've been trying to work on organizing,
it's it took a little bit of first analyzing where
where we stand with the university and really assessing how
(15:26):
we can best make an impact. But within that, we
have all a lot of our organizations have released statements
stating exactly what is happening. You know, Executive one four,
one five one is not something that we are in
agreements of, and it is quite literally tearing apart what
we've come to know. But also on top of that,
(15:47):
you know, it's packing the resource the resource centers, the
cultural centers that we have. It's bringing students into these
spaces and letting them know, hey, you have a safe
space on campus. You can come here and you can
always feel like there is somebody else that will understand
what you're going through. And and so that's that's taken
(16:09):
form in our organization, how we organize and how we
go about our organization. You know, before we may organize,
we have may have a BSU meeting in the library.
Now it's not unless it's not as much about that
we want to organize in the MLK Center here. But
also on top of that, you know, it's petitions, it's
it's really rallies and and finding different ways to bring
(16:33):
the community together and and also just raise our voices.
You know, not with one voice cannot be heard, but
with many together you can reach as far as you'd.
Speaker 5 (16:46):
Like within that and just going based off Yes, we've
had rallies on campus, but it's also making sure that
students are educated and.
Speaker 4 (16:57):
The community is educated.
Speaker 5 (16:58):
We are not to succeed in the way that we
want to unless everyone is on the same page. There's
a lot happening. There's a lot of different voices, there's
a lot of different opinions, but we know what.
Speaker 4 (17:09):
The facts are. So making sure education is.
Speaker 5 (17:12):
The foremost important thing when we're going about radicalizing or
coming together as marginalized groups. But it's also making sure
that we are speaking to our administration because at the
end of the day, they are the ones that are
(17:33):
going to make the decision. So having these open conversations
with our data students and the provosts and trying to
get in contact with the president to see, hey, we
are students and our funding and well, sorry apologies, your
funding does not equate to our experiences.
Speaker 4 (17:47):
Or our livelihood on this campus.
Speaker 5 (17:48):
So having those open conversations and making them understand that
you are in this position because we are students that
go to your school, because we don't just fit into
the standard of.
Speaker 4 (17:59):
Being a white on this campus, will also do matter.
Speaker 3 (18:04):
And might I add I didn't mention it earlier. I
am a second year student. So for me, you know,
I think, I think with Kaija, it's a lot more
about making sure that this space is reserved for us
in the future. For me, it's about it's about having
somewhere next year, you know, it's about having somewhere that
I can actually still go to and study and get
(18:27):
work done and find and build community and make connections
that cannot be done if we do not have these
have these resources. You know, there's a lot of things
that are provided in just having a space, and that's
not even not even including everything that they've done for
our community and for our sense of community on campus.
Speaker 6 (18:51):
Now, we've watched organizations and universities capitulate to just the
influence of the administration, not even the demands, with very
little resistance, kind of voluntarily what do you say to
a school where you pay tuition because you're not nonprofit students,
it's a for profit institution where tens of thousands of
(19:12):
students paid to attend. What do you say to a
school when their response as well, we might lose our
federal funding if we don't capitulate. What's the message as
a student that pays tuition at an institution where that's
the case.
Speaker 4 (19:28):
I've said something like this before. I'm glad you asked
a question.
Speaker 5 (19:31):
I said it was cowardice, because how can you ask
or provide me a scholarship to attend your campus and
then turn around and use me as a statistic to
say that you have marginalized students on this campus, to
continue to build up your classes and then no longer support.
Speaker 4 (19:52):
Us as the years go on, as the days go on.
Speaker 5 (19:55):
It's cowardice, I think, just because we're not in this
standard version of what they perceive as academia. Basically, it's unfortunate.
It's saddening as a whole. We knew coming into this
university that was a PWI. This wasn't something that was
(20:20):
guaranteed for a lot of students or a lot of
people that look like us.
Speaker 4 (20:24):
We are privileged within.
Speaker 5 (20:25):
That sense, so to know that we've made it here,
we fought to be here, we've done we made sure
our grades were good in high school and everything else,
and then to be completely disappointed once again over and
over by this administration, which in particular here like they've
taken away our funding on multip occasions, they've fired our directors,
(20:46):
they have not paid our directors before, which has caused
them to quit. It's it's something that we have expected
and that we hope to have changed, which is insanity,
which the definition of insanity. But it's still once again disappointing,
and we just try to continue to have hope.
Speaker 4 (21:06):
For it as a home.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
Well, you know, the uh, the truth of the matter
is that if it's tough on us, if it's tough
on us, it can be tough on colleges too, conceivably, right,
And if this administration is making life hard for us,
it could be hard for them too, and they could
stand with us in solidarity and support us, particularly because
(21:28):
we're paying for it.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
That's just my thoughts, but you.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
Know, it's your it's your story here. Now, I got
one more question. Just about maybe thirty seconds or so,
people around the country are listening to you. And then
and you know, people around the country have colleges in
their own towns. Right, just again, just in brief, what
could people do to kind of support campuses or organizations
(21:54):
on campuses around the country that are suffering because of
these DEI robacks.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
So, actually, this is a very good question to ask,
because you know, we're giving examples of what's happening on
our campus alone. But this isn't to speak to what's
happened already at you at the University of Ohio, you know,
where they actually already banned a lot of their DEI
and diversity related programs. You know, this is this this
(22:21):
executive order is not something that just affects us. It
affects all public universities across the nation and any any
school that has any form of cultural resource centers any
way for students to organize in marginalized groups. They are
all at significant risk of being entirely dismantled or remodeled.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
And I know, ten seconds or so.
Speaker 3 (22:44):
But yeah, and so what we've started to do is
just put out statements, organize, find any way to really
stand together and unify. Okay, you know, use your voice
it is, it matters
Speaker 2 (22:58):
Okay, all right, well we'll take that
Broadcasting from the Hip Hop Weekly Studios. I'd like to
welcome you to another episode of Civic Cipher, where our
mission is to foster allyship empathy and understanding. I'm your host,
ramses Ja. He is Ramsy's Jaw. I am q Ward.
You are tuned into Civic Cipher, Yes you are, and
we want you to stick around because today we are
going to be having a couple of interesting conversations. One
(00:23):
of the things that we haven't really been able to
get to because of the muzzle velocity strategy by the
current administration is how the rollbacks of DEI initiatives have
been affecting students on college campuses around the country. And
(00:43):
today we are going to hear from a couple of
students who are very much active in trying to fight
for what is right, fight for the organizations, and fight
for an inclusive campus. And hearing from them directly, I
think will give us a lot of insight into what's
(01:04):
going on. So today we are going to hear from
DJ who was the president of the Black Student Union
at the University of Arizona, and we're also going to
hear from Kaija, who's an activist working closely with the
Department of African American Student Affairs, and again both organizations
are actively working against the DEI band. We're also going
(01:24):
to have a conversation later in the show where we
try to view this from the other perspective, In other words,
what are some of the criticisms of DEI initiatives that
are found on the right. How is this justifiable to them?
What veneer of truth have they used to dig their
(01:47):
heels in? And you know, these things we need to know.
And I say that in jest. You know, there's some
valid criticisms, of course, but we're going to discuss that
and so much more on this episode of Saying Cipher.
But before we get there, it is time for some ebony.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Excellence, shall we? I think we shall.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Today's ebony excellence comes from the Atlanta Black Star, and
I think this is such a cool story, so I
will share turning down a deal on Shark Tank was
the best business decision for Tim and Kim Lewis. The
Curl Mixed founders appeared on the show in twenty eighteen
for season ten, episode fourteen of the show. Their ask
was four hundred thousand dollars for a ten percent equity
(02:26):
stake in the Black owned and operated hair system. Their
pitch to dry Bar Salon proprietor Ali Webb, Mark Cuban,
Lorie Griner, Kevin.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
O'Leary, and Robert heard Javek.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Sorry, I don't really watch the show too often, included
models demonstrating the efficacy of their flack sea gel that
promises to define curls of all types.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Quote.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
The main issue we have now is we cannot keep
product on the shelf, unquote, said Tim. They projected one
hundred and eighty thousand dollars in profits that year. That declaration,
couple with the fact that it only cost a couple
three dollars to produce one bottle of the jail, which
retails for twenty five dollars, excited the judges. However, Cuban
was the first to bow out her Javek spoke about
(03:08):
the brutally competitive competitive market. Still, he was certain, quote
this is one of the few investments that I think.
I give you the four hundred thousand dollars, You're definitely
going to grow and you're going to get bigger. What
I worry about is the cargoes faster than and then
hits the wall, hits a wall.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Sorry.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Kim shared that Kroll makes this focus on online sales
was one of the ways their business differentiated from competitors. Quote,
you don't have any other choice because you're not going
to get any retail space. There's no way this business
is worth four hundred thousand dollars right now. There's nothing proprietary.
I'm out, interrupted O'Leary.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Well.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
In twenty twenty four, the company entered its third year
of being available for purchase at four hundred and sixty
ault beauty stores nation Why they are currently valued at
an estimated thirty eight million dollars.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
You'll love to see it, so.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
Again, shout out to Tim and Kim Lewis or their
cro mix. All right, it's time to get down to
brass techs. So first off, I want to welcome the
two of you to the show. So welcome DJ and
welcome Kaija. Do us a favor before we get into
the the conversation, just take a minute or so each
(04:25):
and just kind of give us a little bit of
background on both of you. I know that DJ, you're
the president of the Black student union on your campus,
so you know just a little bit more so that
our listeners know who we're talking to today.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
Yeah, Soggra. First, I I am the president of BSU.
That's well known. But what that means for me and
for a lot of students on campus is regular organization,
you know, and finding unity in our spaces. This campus
is very much mixed, and a lot of times there's
(04:58):
no certain organization for students to feel safe and to
feel like there's this space that they can go to.
So my role in what I do on campus a
lot of times is try to find a way for
students to organize and to and to feel safe, you know,
and to talk about the things that they may not
actually always get to say in their classroom or with
(05:19):
their friends. So I try to allow those allow time
and allow spaces for students.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
Perfect.
Speaker 4 (05:31):
Hi, my name's Kaija.
Speaker 5 (05:33):
I'm I'm the president of MAIA Chapter I Delves signdated,
so already incorporate here at the University of Arizona.
Speaker 4 (05:39):
I'm also a Biochem major minory and Italian.
Speaker 5 (05:43):
I am also chemistry biochemistry peer mentor and advisor as
well as a peer information council for the main library
and research associate for Banner. So my whole thing with
being on campus and being here and being the most
senior member as well as are taking in our living
learning communities, which is an entire dorm full of black students,
(06:05):
is to allow us to have a space and to
have the continuance of a space within these pressing times
at a predominant white institution.
Speaker 6 (06:21):
For those that might not know, what does the Black
Student Union do and what are the benefits to the
student body.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
So the Black Student Union, I mean, aside from allowing
a safe space, of course, you know, we often organize
we have weekly meetings on Wednesdays where we usually do
a variety of things. We usually will have things like
Spades Nights, you know, where kids can come and learn
how to play spades and have fun and chill. We
(06:50):
also have had little parties, you know, so things along
those lines. But BSU at its core, BSU is primarily
for Black students, of course, but for any student that
wants to learn about what black culture is like and
learn how to you know, best assist in representing black
(07:14):
black culture in the black community, not necessarily how to
assimilate or how to become a part of the black community,
but to but to best support it and to best
learn how learned what what is really a part of
this rich culture because there's a lot of things that
people may not know on the service level about what
(07:34):
the black community is.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
So kayj, you do me a favorite and actually I
want to hear from both of you, but Kaja, I'd
like you to go first. How have the the nation,
the national like attacks on d I and the rollbacks
on d I have those affected You know your organizations
and you know their capacity to, you know, deliver these
(07:58):
services to the students who are requesting a lot of.
Speaker 5 (08:02):
The problems that we have is to make sure that
the programs that we keep are sustainable. So that's having
a consistent attendance and audience as well as making sure
that we have funding for these.
Speaker 4 (08:13):
Programs that we have here. Without DEI, we wouldn't be
able to have any of that.
Speaker 5 (08:17):
And it comes to small things such as just reserving
spaces in a building.
Speaker 4 (08:21):
How can we do that if we don't have the building.
Speaker 5 (08:24):
So it's things within that we're fighting against. Other organizations
on campus that are not marginalized. We do have the
privilege to go out and have these spaces on a
consistent basis, whereas now we are trying to find that
for ourselves and something that we had we already have
and now.
Speaker 4 (08:42):
It's being taken away.
Speaker 5 (08:45):
Within funding as well, we are given funding through the university.
This is done due grants and everything else which within
DEI those no longer exists. Students are losing their scholarships
and their grants, and organizations on campus are losing their
grants as well.
Speaker 4 (09:00):
And then there's also advisors for.
Speaker 5 (09:03):
These organizations who are who work for the campus, who
are considered DEI hires that are unable to have their job,
which then of course affects their livelihood as well as
livelihoods of the students on the campus that need their support.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Yeah, anything to add DJ.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
Yeah, So I mean, like Haier said, these advisors, it's
it's advisors, faculty staff. We have our own staff here.
So speaking of which, we're actually doing this call from
within the MLK building a cultural resource center on campus
and what and things like this where we are able
(09:47):
to reserve a room to do a meeting, to have
our own events and do things along those lines. We
wouldn't have them with the band of DEI and a
lot of these faculty instea that we have in these
centers would lose their jobs and without without even possibilities
of severance pay or or anything that would allow them
(10:11):
to find another job within the next few weeks. So
they would be fired without condition, you.
Speaker 6 (10:19):
Know, thinking of life as a collegiate, you know, formerly
the national second vice President of the National Paneltic Council,
the vice president of Phive Beta Sigma Fraternity Incorporated, the
Elite Epsilon five Chapter, the vice president of the NAACP
would County Chapter. I know what it's like to feel
(10:41):
the inclusion from being a part of these organizations. Kaider,
from your purview, what are some other organizations besides your
own that you see affected by these executive orders from
the current administration?
Speaker 4 (10:56):
Other organizations.
Speaker 5 (10:58):
One of the jobs I have is I work as
a pure information counselor for the main library in.
Speaker 4 (11:03):
A bunch of the culture resource centers on campus. So
they all have their clubs.
Speaker 5 (11:07):
Without DEI, they wouldn't, like I said before, they wouldn't
have their spaces, they wouldn't have their funding. A lot
of the things they get is support from local businesses.
Speaker 4 (11:19):
And everything else like that.
Speaker 5 (11:20):
But if they are not able to continue having a space,
if they decide to rally against it, which we have
been threatened with expulsion and termination and not be able
to continue our credits, which as.
Speaker 4 (11:30):
A senior here at the university, it's.
Speaker 5 (11:32):
A little daunting, but without it, we wouldn't be able
to continue. There is its complete erasure of our organizations,
us as a people, like there is no opportunity for
us to thrive here.
Speaker 4 (11:48):
There's when you're going to class and you're.
Speaker 5 (11:50):
Seeing people that don't look like you, and you come
back to a space where everyone is able to relate
and have fun and we're experiencing black joy.
Speaker 4 (11:58):
It's difficult to be happy somewhere where you're obviously not accepted.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
Yeah, you know, one of the things that you know,
So to Q's point, you know, I also have the
experience of being like you did you. I was the
president of the Black student union on my campus. And
then you know, further down the line, you know, I
recall being in those enormous lecture halls. I went to
(12:29):
the business school and those those lecture halls, and I
remember being in classrooms where I remember being the only
black person in a classroom. So that's first, but I
also remember, you know, sometimes there might be one or
two other people, but we'd be so far apart that
there'd be no sense of community, there'd be no sense
(12:51):
of you know whatever. And the tough part about that,
at least the way I remember it at a very
different time than what you guys are living through, is
you know, sometimes people would say things and they would
just be wrong, or they would lack perspective, and I
never felt like there were enough of us in a classroom.
(13:12):
Certainly when I was the only one in a classroom
to speak up to say hey, that's not right, or
hey that is a little offensive or whatever, I just
kind of had to take those things on the chin.
There was also this feeling I remember one time I
was in a finance class, and that feeling of am
I smart enough?
Speaker 2 (13:32):
It turns out I absolutely was.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
But you know, when you're struggling personally, you don't have
that sense of community where there's someone else to say, hey,
look I'm going through this too, and you'd be embarrassed
to go to everyone else who doesn't look like you,
and you already carried the stigma that's associated with being black,
like you know, stupid, criminal, all these other things, you know,
a bad student, all that you don't want to go
(13:55):
to someone else and then reinforce the stereotype by asking
for help, right, And so you can be very much
isolated in you know, a c full of people, because
it's that cultural tie that often helps you out of
little things like that. And I named a couple, but
you know, my whole collegiate experience was filled with them,
and I was the president of the Black Student Union, right,
(14:16):
so I know the value full well of community on
a campus. And what I'm trying to get from you,
and you're doing an excellent job, is sharing with our
listeners around the country what that feels like for folks
who haven't had this experience or haven't had this experience recently. Right,
So let's talk about what you've been up to. DJ
(14:37):
will come to you for this one, and then, of course, Kaija,
if you have something to add, please, But what has
been done on campus to combat the ban of d
I Kaija? I remember you mentioned the risks involved, so
you know, I know that they could take your credits
and all this sort of stuff. But what have you
been trying to do to push back against this erasure
and these attacks on you know, your the expression of
(15:01):
your culture and the resources for your culture.
Speaker 3 (15:04):
Yeah, So I'll start off because Kaija has been involved
many things, but from the perspective of Black Student Union
and everything that I've been trying to work on organizing,
it's it took a little bit of first analyzing where
where we stand with the university and really assessing how
(15:26):
we can best make an impact. But within that, we
have all a lot of our organizations have released statements
stating exactly what is happening. You know, Executive one four,
one five one is not something that we are in
agreements of, and it is quite literally tearing apart what
we've come to know. But also on top of that,
(15:47):
you know, it's packing the resource the resource centers, the
cultural centers that we have. It's bringing students into these
spaces and letting them know, hey, you have a safe
space on campus. You can come here and you can
always feel like there is somebody else that will understand
what you're going through. And and so that's that's taken
(16:09):
form in our organization, how we organize and how we
go about our organization. You know, before we may organize,
we have may have a BSU meeting in the library.
Now it's not unless it's not as much about that
we want to organize in the MLK Center here. But
also on top of that, you know, it's petitions, it's
it's really rallies and and finding different ways to bring
(16:33):
the community together and and also just raise our voices.
You know, not with one voice cannot be heard, but
with many together you can reach as far as you'd.
Speaker 5 (16:46):
Like within that and just going based off Yes, we've
had rallies on campus, but it's also making sure that
students are educated and.
Speaker 4 (16:57):
The community is educated.
Speaker 5 (16:58):
We are not to succeed in the way that we
want to unless everyone is on the same page. There's
a lot happening. There's a lot of different voices, there's
a lot of different opinions, but we know what.
Speaker 4 (17:09):
The facts are. So making sure education is.
Speaker 5 (17:12):
The foremost important thing when we're going about radicalizing or
coming together as marginalized groups. But it's also making sure
that we are speaking to our administration because at the
end of the day, they are the ones that are
(17:33):
going to make the decision. So having these open conversations
with our data students and the provosts and trying to
get in contact with the president to see, hey, we
are students and our funding and well, sorry apologies, your
funding does not equate to our experiences.
Speaker 4 (17:47):
Or our livelihood on this campus.
Speaker 5 (17:48):
So having those open conversations and making them understand that
you are in this position because we are students that
go to your school, because we don't just fit into
the standard of.
Speaker 4 (17:59):
Being a white on this campus, will also do matter.
Speaker 3 (18:04):
And might I add I didn't mention it earlier. I
am a second year student. So for me, you know,
I think, I think with Kaija, it's a lot more
about making sure that this space is reserved for us
in the future. For me, it's about it's about having
somewhere next year, you know, it's about having somewhere that
I can actually still go to and study and get
(18:27):
work done and find and build community and make connections
that cannot be done if we do not have these
have these resources. You know, there's a lot of things
that are provided in just having a space, and that's
not even not even including everything that they've done for
our community and for our sense of community on campus.
Speaker 6 (18:51):
Now, we've watched organizations and universities capitulate to just the
influence of the administration, not even the demands, with very
little resistance, kind of voluntarily what do you say to
a school where you pay tuition because you're not nonprofit students,
it's a for profit institution where tens of thousands of
(19:12):
students paid to attend. What do you say to a
school when their response as well, we might lose our
federal funding if we don't capitulate. What's the message as
a student that pays tuition at an institution where that's
the case.
Speaker 4 (19:28):
I've said something like this before. I'm glad you asked
a question.
Speaker 5 (19:31):
I said it was cowardice, because how can you ask
or provide me a scholarship to attend your campus and
then turn around and use me as a statistic to
say that you have marginalized students on this campus, to
continue to build up your classes and then no longer support.
Speaker 4 (19:52):
Us as the years go on, as the days go on.
Speaker 5 (19:55):
It's cowardice, I think, just because we're not in this
standard version of what they perceive as academia. Basically, it's unfortunate.
It's saddening as a whole. We knew coming into this
university that was a PWI. This wasn't something that was
(20:20):
guaranteed for a lot of students or a lot of
people that look like us.
Speaker 4 (20:24):
We are privileged within.
Speaker 5 (20:25):
That sense, so to know that we've made it here,
we fought to be here, we've done we made sure
our grades were good in high school and everything else,
and then to be completely disappointed once again over and
over by this administration, which in particular here like they've
taken away our funding on multip occasions, they've fired our directors,
(20:46):
they have not paid our directors before, which has caused
them to quit. It's it's something that we have expected
and that we hope to have changed, which is insanity,
which the definition of insanity. But it's still once again disappointing,
and we just try to continue to have hope.
Speaker 4 (21:06):
For it as a home.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
Well, you know, the uh, the truth of the matter
is that if it's tough on us, if it's tough
on us, it can be tough on colleges too, conceivably, right,
And if this administration is making life hard for us,
it could be hard for them too, and they could
stand with us in solidarity and support us, particularly because
(21:28):
we're paying for it.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
That's just my thoughts, but you.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
Know, it's your it's your story here. Now, I got
one more question. Just about maybe thirty seconds or so,
people around the country are listening to you. And then
and you know, people around the country have colleges in
their own towns. Right, just again, just in brief, what
could people do to kind of support campuses or organizations
(21:54):
on campuses around the country that are suffering because of
these DEI robacks.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
So, actually, this is a very good question to ask,
because you know, we're giving examples of what's happening on
our campus alone. But this isn't to speak to what's
happened already at you at the University of Ohio, you know,
where they actually already banned a lot of their DEI
and diversity related programs. You know, this is this this
(22:21):
executive order is not something that just affects us. It
affects all public universities across the nation and any any
school that has any form of cultural resource centers any
way for students to organize in marginalized groups. They are
all at significant risk of being entirely dismantled or remodeled.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
And I know, ten seconds or so.
Speaker 3 (22:44):
But yeah, and so what we've started to do is
just put out statements, organize, find any way to really
stand together and unify. Okay, you know, use your voice
it is, it matters
Speaker 2 (22:58):
Okay, all right, well we'll take that
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