April 5, 2025 • 27 mins
Our guest is civil rights attorney Portia Allen-Kyle – the managing director of the nation’s largest online racial justice organization, Color of Change. As a national online force driven by 7 million members, they move decision-makers in corporations and government to create a more human and less hostile world for Black people in America.
In the first half of the show, we talk about the Color of Change, some of the problems created by the current political administration, and the implications of the dismantling of the Department of Education.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Broadcasting from the Hip Hop Weekly Studios. I'd like to
welcome you to another episode of Civic Cipher, where our
mission is to foster allyship empathy and understanding. I'm your host,
Rams's job.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
He is Ramsey's joh I am q Ward. You are
tuned in the Civic Cipher.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
Yes you are, and we are glad to be back
in the studio together after some time apart handling business
around the country. But that means that we are back
to business as usual. So stick around because today we
are going to be having a conversation with Portia Alan Kyle.
For those that don't know, she is the civil rights
(00:34):
attorney who is now the managing director of Color of Change.
This is an organization that we're familiar with here indeed,
but for those that aren't, Color of Change is the
nation's largest online racial justice organization. They help people respond
effectively to injustice in the world. As a national online
force driven by seven million members, they move decision makers
(00:54):
and corporations and government to create a more human and
less hostile war for black people in America. We are
going to be having a conversation about the dismantling of
the Department of Education the implications of that, and you know,
really how this new administration affects the plight of you know,
(01:15):
Color of Change and similar organizations. It's it's a conversation
that we have to have, you know, have had to
have a few times, and we may end up having
it a few more times. But it's important to know
kind of how this, how this, these changes are affecting
you know, orgs that have been pursuing social justice, and
(01:35):
it's important for you to know, our listener, to know
how you can support. And so hopefully when we have
the conversation with Porsche Alan Kyle, we'll be able to
get to all of those things and a lot more,
because again, as I mentioned, this is more important than
ever and you know we built the show, yes and
for this purpose, and so really excited to have that conversation.
(01:57):
But before we get there, of course, it is time
to to kick things off with some ebony excellence.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Shall we?
Speaker 1 (02:02):
I think you shall, all right.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
A new report is revealing encouraging statistics about black women
in education.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
This from Forbes magazine.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
By the way, according to findings compiled in a study
by the National Center for Education Statistics, black women have
been obtaining degrees at a consistently high rate for the
last eight years and counting. Information collected about the higher
education among African Americans between two thousand and nine and
twenty ten shows that Black women accounted for sixty eight
percent of associates degrees, sixty six percent of bachelor's degrees,
(02:35):
seventy one percent of master's degrees, and sixty five percent
of doctorate degrees awarded for Black students during that timeframe
by both race and gender. The study also shows that
Black women are enrolled in college at a higher percentage
than any other group, including white women, Asian women, and
white men. However, while the study does shed light on
(02:56):
many positive aspects of Black women in education, some of
the overall statistics are still immensely troubling. For example, as
of twenty twelve, only fifteen percent of students enrolled in
college we're African American, a drastically low number relative to
that of the sixty percent of white students enrolled. Additionally,
while black women continue to pursue higher education and increasing rates,
(03:18):
they make up only eight percent of private sector jobs. Overall,
the study proves much of what most of the black
community were already very much aware of we've come a
very long way but still have quite the journey ahead.
These numbers don't shock me at all. I think having
six sisters kind of shapes this narrative for me before
(03:39):
I even need to look at statistics. But when we
talk about meritocracy and those who are qualified but not
represented in positions of power and posistions of influence and
in the professional space, we realize that all the fuss
about DEI is greatly unfounded. But we knew that.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
Already, all right. So, speaking of which, Portia Alan Kyle,
how are you doing today? Welcome to the show.
Speaker 3 (04:03):
Yes, I'm good, Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
You know, we tell our stories from the beginning and
we would love the opportunity to introduce you to our audience. So,
of course I gave a little bit of a background
on you, and you and I have, you know, read
up on you, and we've actually kind of known who
you are for some time. But for those that don't know,
just give us a little bit of background. You know,
where you grew up, where you went to school, what
motivates you on your path, or what motivated you to
(04:29):
adopt this career path.
Speaker 3 (04:32):
Yeah, so I'm a Jersey girl, born and raised in
Jersey currently you know, in New York, but have really
being from Jersey has really shaped a lot about about
how I see the world, how I see you know,
the future, and like part of that is growing up
(04:52):
just seeing and like experiencing and living just like very
stark differences and the way in which people you know,
where you live determined so much about you know, what
your what your chances are, what your outcomes you know are.
I'm product of public schools, went to a vocational school
for high school, and so you know, really understand very
(05:13):
deeply so much about you know, not just what I
thought I understood in going through public schools, and you
know what I have learned even more as I've moved
through my career is you know, all of the ways
in which the system is is set up to fail
(05:36):
in all of the ways and all of the reasons
why it is even more important to make sure that
we are holding you know, folks accountable and so like,
we have really been inspired you know, by friends, motivated
by you know, family experiences. My grandmother in particular, huge
motivation in my life. She was a HBCU grad back
in the forties before it was even Uh, she went
(05:58):
to Southern University before you know, was even before anti
discrimination protections and before the Civil Rights Act, and so
you know, before she was able to you know, really
go out and teach what she was you know, trying
to do, but had that value of education in all
the ways that it shaped her, and so some of
that has really passed down as well. Choosing a career
(06:19):
in civil rights and trying to just do what I
can for the betterment of black people and all people,
you know, has really been the mission and the job.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
Porsha Ramses and I have been familiar with your story
for so long, and the New Jersey always stood out
to me. My first professional formative years after college, I
took an internship in Manhattan, but I had to live
in Newark because I could not afford to live in Manhattan.
When things got a little bit better, I moved to Weehawken,
(06:51):
and you know, I got friends in North and South Jersey.
So every time I hear Jersey, I get excited. So
that's always colored part of your story for me. As
Ramsey said, though we tell our stories from the beginning,
and not all of our listeners will be as familiar
with you as we are tell the listener a little
bit about the history on Color of Change and the
(07:12):
mission of the organization.
Speaker 3 (07:15):
Absolutely so. Color of Change is an organization that was
founded returning twenty this year, so twenty years ago, if
you can believe, in the wake of Hurricane Katrina, and
so you know, it was a moment in time where
you know, black people were out begging for their lives,
you know, literally begging for the government to do something,
(07:36):
and we're often and we're often left to die, right
where the media, you know, had a responsibility to report
on what was what was happening, that made choices to
decide to report on black people as looting while white
people were doing all they could, you know, for survival, right.
And so Color of Change was you know, born from
a moment of these you know, very stark, very plain injustices,
(08:00):
you know, from an email that was sent to about
a thousand people by our founders and has grown into
a movement in an organization that at its core is
about you know, leveraging narrative and so that you know,
to the origins, holding media accountable and that Katrina coverage,
you know, has filtered through the organization to today an
(08:21):
organization that at its core is about holding government actors accountable.
And so thinking back to you know, really in the
DNA of the organization is making sure that government works
for people and the ways in which it is supposed to,
in the ways in which it is charged, and for
all people, not selective, and who it works for and
who it doesn't. And then you know, holding corporations accountable.
(08:43):
And so you know, we as an organization leverage the
power of narrative and are organizing and the power of
people to hold corporations and government actors to account, making demands,
you know, to pursue and further racial justice and making
sure that in the face of injustice, you know, we
have a theory here that we organize and joy so
that when it's time to mobilize and take action in
(09:06):
the face of injustice, we're already in deep relationship.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
And that's what Color of Change is about. You know,
I'm gonna I'm gonna skip ahead here because you know,
Q and I have been having a lot of conversations
on this show about corporations and you know, obviously, as
I mentioned, you know, we've been doing you know, research
(09:29):
on you know, the Color of Change it's an organization
that we're familiar with. But you know, obviously just kind
of get our bearings before having this conversation. That word
has come up quite a bit, that, you know, holding
corporations accountable, and we live in interesting times, and you know,
Q will follow up, you know, and kind of make
(09:49):
that live a little bit more. But I'm curious to
get your thoughts on the boycotts that are taking place
right now, because, at least for me, I find that
in a moment where there's a lot of hopelessness for
(10:09):
marginalized communities in this country, that that maneuver boycotting still
provides me with a sense of power and control over
shaping my own reality. It provides a sense of community,
you know, where you know, I might not be interacting
(10:31):
with people out in the streets whose political beliefs aligned
with my own, but I do get that sense of
community when I choose where to spend my money and
critically choose where not to spend my money. And so again,
holding corporations accountable. This is really just my own thoughts
(10:51):
while we're here, you know, your thoughts on the boycotts
and yeah, just your thoughts there.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
Yeah, so I think It's a great question because I,
you know, I it is always good when there is
organic momentum towards a collective end, right, And like needing
to be able to people, people get upset, right, Like
people get frustrated. People are you know, tired of these
(11:21):
companies playing in their face, right, They're tired of these
companies taking advantage of you know, gouging, you know, folks
for every dollar they have, every you know, time you
go to the store, something is that much more expensive,
even more expensive. You have stores like Target that you
know have done their entire uh, you know, marketing campaigns
around bringing in uh, black customers because they are going
(11:44):
to be the people that you know, carry shame moisture
and like uh you know Taraji's hairline and pattern and
you know T G.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
I N.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
And you know all these and Tabitha Brown and Jungalow
and you know all these black designers and then to
turn around and say, actually, we're not going to do
that anymore, right, And so like the desire to want
a boycott to not spend their money to be more
judicious and spending money is a is a natural reaction
and one that you know does give folks a sense
of agency and like we need people to feel powerful,
(12:15):
We need people to you know, want to take action
and be moved to action in the face of injustice.
I think, you know, there's the next level question, you know,
for the landscape and the ecosystem is how do we
galvanize that like individual energy to collective ends to make
sure that you know, as a block, as a community,
(12:39):
as a as a movement, that the some of those
individual actions really deal real blows to institutions of power.
And that's a place where boycotts, at least on the
individual level, get a little bit more hazy in terms of,
you know, what's the goal and what's the impact, and
(13:02):
what's the the prerequisite organizing necessary to make sure that
you know, that impact is going to be had, that
devastating blow is going to be felt. And now just
you know, kind of give an example, you know, boycotting Target.
If the goal is to deal a blow to Target,
(13:23):
we need to collectively be you know, okay with the
fact that Amazon may profit, Walmart may profit. People you know,
may go to kind of all of these other places
that maybe are not doing exactly what we want them
to do. Maybe also have walked back their DEI commitments.
But you know the reality is of most people want
to get to a black grocery store. There's not a
(13:44):
black grocery store. It's not about where you're going to
buy your clothes and you know, spend your money at restaurants.
It's like where you're getting your toilet paper, where you're
getting your you know, your body wash, where you get
your aluminum foil, right, yeah, like, and so you know,
the the very fundamentals, and that's where you know, it's
a little bit I think hazier, but it's never a
(14:04):
it's never a bad thing for collective momentum and wanting
to you know, take advantage of moments to galvanize. Our
entire theory around organizing is how to you know, really
identify moments where there you know, is really momentum and
to channel that energy into strategic action and so that
that wanting to be in control and take action as
(14:26):
a necessary part of anything that comes next down the line.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
So all of us are dealing with the reality of
our administration and they have an agenda that is in
direct odds, in direct conflict and direct opposition to the
mission of an organization like Color of Change. Talk to
us about some of the problems that this administration has
introduced for Color of Change and the work that you do.
Speaker 3 (14:57):
Yeah, it's interesting. You know, I think an agenda that
is opposed is probably an understatement of of what's happening
and we're experiencing now at the moment. Right, So we've
been talking about this as a neo segregationist agenda that
this administration is pushing, and you know what that really
involves is attacks on all fronts, you know, on the
(15:21):
infrastructure and progress of civil rights and so, you know,
it really what we describe it as is, you know,
it's an agenda that attacks and is eliminating civil rights
protections and anti discrimination protections under the guise of merit
and equal opportunity. Right, it's the you know, promotion of
misinformation in a number of different ways under the guise
(15:42):
of free speech, pretending that you know, it's about allowing
folks more freedom, when in reality they're you know, very
clear desire is to suppress black power, black vote by
you know, maintaining and control over information and mechanisms of
information and the flow of information and the lack of regulation.
They're capturing government agencies and functions under the guise of efficiency,
(16:07):
and we know that it really isn't waste, fraud and
abuse that you know, the real trouble there is the
excessive corporate greed and unchecked corporate power that is on
display in this takeover of government and very blatant attempts
for private corporations to you know, assert their interests in
the public sphere by taking over people's data, their irs information,
(16:30):
their you know, social security information, cutting off essential services.
This is an agenda that you know, very openly pedals
hate for profit, you know, and they're doing so under
this false narrative of deregulation and free markets.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
Right.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
They're rewriting history and you know, trying to basically remake
the image of America as absent of black people, of LGBTQ,
people of devoid of people with disabilities, really trying to
erase in attack on black history and attacks on you
in banning books and all of the things, really trying
(17:05):
to erase people from the public sphere and the public
image of America to create this image that is a
you know, white cultural image of what they call the
Golden Age, which is probably you know, late eighteen hundred's
post reconstruction. White maleness is essentially what they're going for,
and yeah, we have to stand up against all of that.
(17:25):
I think it is all a farce. It is like
all aicon, It is all a scam, and like needing
everyone to really mobilize, see what's happening clearly in the
ways in which it's connected, and that if they're successful,
everyone's life will be worse and worse for generations, not
just today.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
So let's let's talk about that a little bit, because
you're right, you know, if they're successful, then this does
fundamentally make America great again for that one group of people.
This is something that, of course we've known for some time,
but you know, you laid it out so plainly, and
(18:03):
you know, to Q's point in discussing kind of the
plight of color of change, this administration being at odds
with that, you're You're not wrong. I do think that
is a bit of an understatement, you know what I mean,
Like it's it's the it's the plainest way to say it,
like with words. But this is like an assault, you know,
(18:27):
it's not we want something different or we want something counter. No,
we want you to go away entirely, right, not that
we want to win. We want you to disappear. And
and so I think your point is well made in
that regard. So let's let's lean into that a bit.
Talk to us about maybe some of the creative approaches
that Color of Change has or is, or perhaps may
(18:51):
consider deploying in the future to fortify itself against this administration.
You know, you know, I know that the Department of Education,
the dismantling of the Department of Education is is a
big deal. So you know, we can start there. But
you know, what is it that you feel it can
(19:11):
be wielded to kind of preserve our identities and a
path forward, a path toward an equitable go in America
for those of us who have been historically marginalized.
Speaker 3 (19:24):
That's such a great question because I think, you know,
to me the most important thing. You know, someone asked
me the other day, like, aren't you panicked? And I'm
I'm not panic not because what is happening in this
moment isn't scary. It's like definitely scary. Right Like, none
of us alive today have lived in this type of
(19:48):
in America. Right, Like we are all entering a new
era and there's an aspect of that that is scary.
But you know, part of what both myself individually and
I think at color of things we are very clear
right about is the work has always been the long term,
slow burn front work of building power and organizing and
(20:09):
that doesn't change just because you know, that doesn't change,
you know, just because the political dynamics change, right, Like,
we have to invest in each other, We have to
invest in building in the infrastructure, We have to invest
in organizing people both on and offline, meeting folks in
real life where they are, and that remains the work.
(20:31):
And the way to do that, you know, for us
is then to also be clear eyed about you know,
what we're for and who's standing are in our way
to live in the world that we want to live in,
right and so like if we want a world which
I think most people do, where like folks are able
to provide for themselves and their families right to you know,
(20:55):
have a job, be able to take care of their
basic needs, afford you know, rent afore health care, afford.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
You know.
Speaker 3 (21:04):
A little bit of leisure maybe definitely like look forward
to retiring. Then needing to be very clear I that
like the folks that are standing in the way of
that are you know, often these very large corporations like
they're you know, the folks who are fighting, you know,
tooth and nail to dismantle the Department of Education. They're
the folks who are fighting, you know, with all of
(21:24):
they have, with all that they have, to undermine the
power of labor and unions. They're the folks that are
fighting with everything they've got to you know, strip folks
of medicare you know, and medicaid. I'm sorry to undermine
the infrastructure that we have for health care and needing
to expose those people every step of the way. You know,
(21:46):
in moments like these, there's no neutrality, and so like
you are really either a part of the problem or
you are a part of the solution and building towards
you know, something different in the future. There is no
My entire business is the destruction of society and partecting
the interests of the elite while society is being you know, deconstructed.
But don't worry, I you know, donate some pro bono
(22:08):
hours for some of these law firms that are being
a tactor, you know, don't worry, you know, we give
some corporate donations to you know, whatever group is in
need over there. It doesn't balance out, right, Like you
actually have to choose the side of a better future.
You have to like choose justice and then act accordingly.
And those are the types of choices we're making in
(22:29):
this moment. Those are the types of conversations and you know,
realization in order to bring people together. Sometimes people talk
about big tent, you know, how to bring more people
to the majority, more people into the fight, giving folks
a clear vision of exactly what we're fighting for, not
just what we're fighting against. It's like a critical ingredient
in that recipe, and it is more clear than ever.
(22:52):
Like we know the world we don't want to live in.
We're in it right, Like we've been in it for
hundreds of years. We're like still in it today. We
know that world very clearly. What we don't know is
what it can look like if we govern with values
of love and justice. Right, we haven't experienced what it
can look like if we've you know, governed from a
perspective of abundance and taking care of everybody in our
neighbors and not everybody looking out for themselves, Like the
(23:15):
individual strategy has not worked. This capitalistic strategy has not worked.
The putting profits over people that has not worked. We
had like to me, it's very clear we have to
try something different, and that's you know what we're working
and organizing towards. At Color of Change.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
Porsia speak to us about the dismantling of the Department
of Education and what does America look like without a
Department of Education.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
You know, it's funny because I also think we know
what that America looks like too, right, it looks like
public education prior to Brown. So the Department of Education
is a direct legacy of the civil rights movement, right,
the promise of the Civil Rights Act and education as
a pathway to opportunity, the promise of Brown v. Board
(24:07):
of Education, right in prohibiting or striking down separate but equal,
and you know, prohibiting discrimination in public education. None of
those promises were meaningful without enforcement. And the Department of
Education has been every step of the way, the agency
that ensures that the states and local you know, governments
(24:29):
and board of education follow the law and ensure that
people are able to access opportunity. Right, and they do
that you know, through civil rights enforcement, enforcement of you know,
laws that provide for the provision of special education services.
This the Department of Education also administers you know, student
(24:51):
loans and student loans as has it always been perfect, No,
not at all. Has it allowed folks to act sus
opportunities that prior you know, to the administration would have
just been out of reach because of a lack of funds. Yes,
like you know, the administer Pelgramts, you know, also critical
to you know, opening up opportunities, you know, to higher
(25:14):
education for students. And so there are so many things
that the agency does that not only are critical to protect,
but without protecting them and allowing them to be eroded,
whether that is through you know, the firing of critical
you know, agency staff, whether that is this silly proposal
to send some of the functions to other parts of
(25:36):
the government and trying to trick people, you know, into
the idea that don't worry, it'll just be this, you know,
it'll be the same thing, It'll just exist in other places.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
You know.
Speaker 3 (25:45):
The Department of Education has really been critical in holding
open the promise of opportunity and recognizing how important education
has been to economic mobility for black people. We really
should then be cern about what it looks like and
the generations to come about the role that education plays
(26:07):
and how it plays it and whether you know that
promise is even possible to fulfill. In addition to all
of the very like practical questions that everyone across the
country is going to experience, right like, the dismantling of
the department and the eroding of the funding won't just
impact children, although it will impact the ninety percent of
kids that attend public schools, right, but it'll impact you know,
(26:28):
if it's not this year, it's the year after when
states are trying to figure out how they're going to
pay for their schools, and you know, localities are trying
to figure out how they're going to pay for their schools.
They only have a couple of mechanisms, and the primary
mechanism is taxes. And so everybody will, you know, across
the country will potentially be impacted if the federal government
(26:50):
abdicates its duty, you know, to provide education and opportunity
through funding and the funding of critical public school infrastructure
wide
Broadcasting from the Hip Hop Weekly Studios. I'd like to
welcome you to another episode of Civic Cipher, where our
mission is to foster allyship empathy and understanding. I'm your host,
Rams's job.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
He is Ramsey's joh I am q Ward. You are
tuned in the Civic Cipher.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
Yes you are, and we are glad to be back
in the studio together after some time apart handling business
around the country. But that means that we are back
to business as usual. So stick around because today we
are going to be having a conversation with Portia Alan Kyle.
For those that don't know, she is the civil rights
(00:34):
attorney who is now the managing director of Color of Change.
This is an organization that we're familiar with here indeed,
but for those that aren't, Color of Change is the
nation's largest online racial justice organization. They help people respond
effectively to injustice in the world. As a national online
force driven by seven million members, they move decision makers
(00:54):
and corporations and government to create a more human and
less hostile war for black people in America. We are
going to be having a conversation about the dismantling of
the Department of Education the implications of that, and you know,
really how this new administration affects the plight of you know,
(01:15):
Color of Change and similar organizations. It's it's a conversation
that we have to have, you know, have had to
have a few times, and we may end up having
it a few more times. But it's important to know
kind of how this, how this, these changes are affecting
you know, orgs that have been pursuing social justice, and
(01:35):
it's important for you to know, our listener, to know
how you can support. And so hopefully when we have
the conversation with Porsche Alan Kyle, we'll be able to
get to all of those things and a lot more,
because again, as I mentioned, this is more important than
ever and you know we built the show, yes and
for this purpose, and so really excited to have that conversation.
(01:57):
But before we get there, of course, it is time
to to kick things off with some ebony excellence.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Shall we?
Speaker 1 (02:02):
I think you shall, all right.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
A new report is revealing encouraging statistics about black women
in education.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
This from Forbes magazine.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
By the way, according to findings compiled in a study
by the National Center for Education Statistics, black women have
been obtaining degrees at a consistently high rate for the
last eight years and counting. Information collected about the higher
education among African Americans between two thousand and nine and
twenty ten shows that Black women accounted for sixty eight
percent of associates degrees, sixty six percent of bachelor's degrees,
(02:35):
seventy one percent of master's degrees, and sixty five percent
of doctorate degrees awarded for Black students during that timeframe
by both race and gender. The study also shows that
Black women are enrolled in college at a higher percentage
than any other group, including white women, Asian women, and
white men. However, while the study does shed light on
(02:56):
many positive aspects of Black women in education, some of
the overall statistics are still immensely troubling. For example, as
of twenty twelve, only fifteen percent of students enrolled in
college we're African American, a drastically low number relative to
that of the sixty percent of white students enrolled. Additionally,
while black women continue to pursue higher education and increasing rates,
(03:18):
they make up only eight percent of private sector jobs. Overall,
the study proves much of what most of the black
community were already very much aware of we've come a
very long way but still have quite the journey ahead.
These numbers don't shock me at all. I think having
six sisters kind of shapes this narrative for me before
(03:39):
I even need to look at statistics. But when we
talk about meritocracy and those who are qualified but not
represented in positions of power and posistions of influence and
in the professional space, we realize that all the fuss
about DEI is greatly unfounded. But we knew that.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
Already, all right. So, speaking of which, Portia Alan Kyle,
how are you doing today? Welcome to the show.
Speaker 3 (04:03):
Yes, I'm good, Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
You know, we tell our stories from the beginning and
we would love the opportunity to introduce you to our audience. So,
of course I gave a little bit of a background
on you, and you and I have, you know, read
up on you, and we've actually kind of known who
you are for some time. But for those that don't know,
just give us a little bit of background. You know,
where you grew up, where you went to school, what
motivates you on your path, or what motivated you to
(04:29):
adopt this career path.
Speaker 3 (04:32):
Yeah, so I'm a Jersey girl, born and raised in
Jersey currently you know, in New York, but have really
being from Jersey has really shaped a lot about about
how I see the world, how I see you know,
the future, and like part of that is growing up
(04:52):
just seeing and like experiencing and living just like very
stark differences and the way in which people you know,
where you live determined so much about you know, what
your what your chances are, what your outcomes you know are.
I'm product of public schools, went to a vocational school
for high school, and so you know, really understand very
(05:13):
deeply so much about you know, not just what I
thought I understood in going through public schools, and you
know what I have learned even more as I've moved
through my career is you know, all of the ways
in which the system is is set up to fail
(05:36):
in all of the ways and all of the reasons
why it is even more important to make sure that
we are holding you know, folks accountable and so like,
we have really been inspired you know, by friends, motivated
by you know, family experiences. My grandmother in particular, huge
motivation in my life. She was a HBCU grad back
in the forties before it was even Uh, she went
(05:58):
to Southern University before you know, was even before anti
discrimination protections and before the Civil Rights Act, and so
you know, before she was able to you know, really
go out and teach what she was you know, trying
to do, but had that value of education in all
the ways that it shaped her, and so some of
that has really passed down as well. Choosing a career
(06:19):
in civil rights and trying to just do what I
can for the betterment of black people and all people,
you know, has really been the mission and the job.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
Porsha Ramses and I have been familiar with your story
for so long, and the New Jersey always stood out
to me. My first professional formative years after college, I
took an internship in Manhattan, but I had to live
in Newark because I could not afford to live in Manhattan.
When things got a little bit better, I moved to Weehawken,
(06:51):
and you know, I got friends in North and South Jersey.
So every time I hear Jersey, I get excited. So
that's always colored part of your story for me. As
Ramsey said, though we tell our stories from the beginning,
and not all of our listeners will be as familiar
with you as we are tell the listener a little
bit about the history on Color of Change and the
(07:12):
mission of the organization.
Speaker 3 (07:15):
Absolutely so. Color of Change is an organization that was
founded returning twenty this year, so twenty years ago, if
you can believe, in the wake of Hurricane Katrina, and
so you know, it was a moment in time where
you know, black people were out begging for their lives,
you know, literally begging for the government to do something,
(07:36):
and we're often and we're often left to die, right
where the media, you know, had a responsibility to report
on what was what was happening, that made choices to
decide to report on black people as looting while white
people were doing all they could, you know, for survival, right.
And so Color of Change was you know, born from
a moment of these you know, very stark, very plain injustices,
(08:00):
you know, from an email that was sent to about
a thousand people by our founders and has grown into
a movement in an organization that at its core is
about you know, leveraging narrative and so that you know,
to the origins, holding media accountable and that Katrina coverage,
you know, has filtered through the organization to today an
(08:21):
organization that at its core is about holding government actors accountable.
And so thinking back to you know, really in the
DNA of the organization is making sure that government works
for people and the ways in which it is supposed to,
in the ways in which it is charged, and for
all people, not selective, and who it works for and
who it doesn't. And then you know, holding corporations accountable.
(08:43):
And so you know, we as an organization leverage the
power of narrative and are organizing and the power of
people to hold corporations and government actors to account, making demands,
you know, to pursue and further racial justice and making
sure that in the face of injustice, you know, we
have a theory here that we organize and joy so
that when it's time to mobilize and take action in
(09:06):
the face of injustice, we're already in deep relationship.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
And that's what Color of Change is about. You know,
I'm gonna I'm gonna skip ahead here because you know,
Q and I have been having a lot of conversations
on this show about corporations and you know, obviously, as
I mentioned, you know, we've been doing you know, research
(09:29):
on you know, the Color of Change it's an organization
that we're familiar with. But you know, obviously just kind
of get our bearings before having this conversation. That word
has come up quite a bit, that, you know, holding
corporations accountable, and we live in interesting times, and you know,
Q will follow up, you know, and kind of make
(09:49):
that live a little bit more. But I'm curious to
get your thoughts on the boycotts that are taking place
right now, because, at least for me, I find that
in a moment where there's a lot of hopelessness for
(10:09):
marginalized communities in this country, that that maneuver boycotting still
provides me with a sense of power and control over
shaping my own reality. It provides a sense of community,
you know, where you know, I might not be interacting
(10:31):
with people out in the streets whose political beliefs aligned
with my own, but I do get that sense of
community when I choose where to spend my money and
critically choose where not to spend my money. And so again,
holding corporations accountable. This is really just my own thoughts
(10:51):
while we're here, you know, your thoughts on the boycotts
and yeah, just your thoughts there.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
Yeah, so I think It's a great question because I,
you know, I it is always good when there is
organic momentum towards a collective end, right, And like needing
to be able to people, people get upset, right, Like
people get frustrated. People are you know, tired of these
(11:21):
companies playing in their face, right, They're tired of these
companies taking advantage of you know, gouging, you know, folks
for every dollar they have, every you know, time you
go to the store, something is that much more expensive,
even more expensive. You have stores like Target that you
know have done their entire uh, you know, marketing campaigns
around bringing in uh, black customers because they are going
(11:44):
to be the people that you know, carry shame moisture
and like uh you know Taraji's hairline and pattern and
you know T G.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
I N.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
And you know all these and Tabitha Brown and Jungalow
and you know all these black designers and then to
turn around and say, actually, we're not going to do
that anymore, right, And so like the desire to want
a boycott to not spend their money to be more
judicious and spending money is a is a natural reaction
and one that you know does give folks a sense
of agency and like we need people to feel powerful,
(12:15):
We need people to you know, want to take action
and be moved to action in the face of injustice.
I think, you know, there's the next level question, you know,
for the landscape and the ecosystem is how do we
galvanize that like individual energy to collective ends to make
sure that you know, as a block, as a community,
(12:39):
as a as a movement, that the some of those
individual actions really deal real blows to institutions of power.
And that's a place where boycotts, at least on the
individual level, get a little bit more hazy in terms of,
you know, what's the goal and what's the impact, and
(13:02):
what's the the prerequisite organizing necessary to make sure that
you know, that impact is going to be had, that
devastating blow is going to be felt. And now just
you know, kind of give an example, you know, boycotting Target.
If the goal is to deal a blow to Target,
(13:23):
we need to collectively be you know, okay with the
fact that Amazon may profit, Walmart may profit. People you know,
may go to kind of all of these other places
that maybe are not doing exactly what we want them
to do. Maybe also have walked back their DEI commitments.
But you know the reality is of most people want
to get to a black grocery store. There's not a
(13:44):
black grocery store. It's not about where you're going to
buy your clothes and you know, spend your money at restaurants.
It's like where you're getting your toilet paper, where you're
getting your you know, your body wash, where you get
your aluminum foil, right, yeah, like, and so you know,
the the very fundamentals, and that's where you know, it's
a little bit I think hazier, but it's never a
(14:04):
it's never a bad thing for collective momentum and wanting
to you know, take advantage of moments to galvanize. Our
entire theory around organizing is how to you know, really
identify moments where there you know, is really momentum and
to channel that energy into strategic action and so that
that wanting to be in control and take action as
(14:26):
a necessary part of anything that comes next down the line.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
So all of us are dealing with the reality of
our administration and they have an agenda that is in
direct odds, in direct conflict and direct opposition to the
mission of an organization like Color of Change. Talk to
us about some of the problems that this administration has
introduced for Color of Change and the work that you do.
Speaker 3 (14:57):
Yeah, it's interesting. You know, I think an agenda that
is opposed is probably an understatement of of what's happening
and we're experiencing now at the moment. Right, So we've
been talking about this as a neo segregationist agenda that
this administration is pushing, and you know what that really
involves is attacks on all fronts, you know, on the
(15:21):
infrastructure and progress of civil rights and so, you know,
it really what we describe it as is, you know,
it's an agenda that attacks and is eliminating civil rights
protections and anti discrimination protections under the guise of merit
and equal opportunity. Right, it's the you know, promotion of
misinformation in a number of different ways under the guise
(15:42):
of free speech, pretending that you know, it's about allowing
folks more freedom, when in reality they're you know, very
clear desire is to suppress black power, black vote by
you know, maintaining and control over information and mechanisms of
information and the flow of information and the lack of regulation.
They're capturing government agencies and functions under the guise of efficiency,
(16:07):
and we know that it really isn't waste, fraud and
abuse that you know, the real trouble there is the
excessive corporate greed and unchecked corporate power that is on
display in this takeover of government and very blatant attempts
for private corporations to you know, assert their interests in
the public sphere by taking over people's data, their irs information,
(16:30):
their you know, social security information, cutting off essential services.
This is an agenda that you know, very openly pedals
hate for profit, you know, and they're doing so under
this false narrative of deregulation and free markets.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
Right.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
They're rewriting history and you know, trying to basically remake
the image of America as absent of black people, of LGBTQ,
people of devoid of people with disabilities, really trying to
erase in attack on black history and attacks on you
in banning books and all of the things, really trying
(17:05):
to erase people from the public sphere and the public
image of America to create this image that is a
you know, white cultural image of what they call the
Golden Age, which is probably you know, late eighteen hundred's
post reconstruction. White maleness is essentially what they're going for,
and yeah, we have to stand up against all of that.
(17:25):
I think it is all a farce. It is like
all aicon, It is all a scam, and like needing
everyone to really mobilize, see what's happening clearly in the
ways in which it's connected, and that if they're successful,
everyone's life will be worse and worse for generations, not
just today.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
So let's let's talk about that a little bit, because
you're right, you know, if they're successful, then this does
fundamentally make America great again for that one group of people.
This is something that, of course we've known for some time,
but you know, you laid it out so plainly, and
(18:03):
you know, to Q's point in discussing kind of the
plight of color of change, this administration being at odds
with that, you're You're not wrong. I do think that
is a bit of an understatement, you know what I mean,
Like it's it's the it's the plainest way to say it,
like with words. But this is like an assault, you know,
(18:27):
it's not we want something different or we want something counter. No,
we want you to go away entirely, right, not that
we want to win. We want you to disappear. And
and so I think your point is well made in
that regard. So let's let's lean into that a bit.
Talk to us about maybe some of the creative approaches
that Color of Change has or is, or perhaps may
(18:51):
consider deploying in the future to fortify itself against this administration.
You know, you know, I know that the Department of Education,
the dismantling of the Department of Education is is a
big deal. So you know, we can start there. But
you know, what is it that you feel it can
(19:11):
be wielded to kind of preserve our identities and a
path forward, a path toward an equitable go in America
for those of us who have been historically marginalized.
Speaker 3 (19:24):
That's such a great question because I think, you know,
to me the most important thing. You know, someone asked
me the other day, like, aren't you panicked? And I'm
I'm not panic not because what is happening in this
moment isn't scary. It's like definitely scary. Right Like, none
of us alive today have lived in this type of
(19:48):
in America. Right, Like we are all entering a new
era and there's an aspect of that that is scary.
But you know, part of what both myself individually and
I think at color of things we are very clear
right about is the work has always been the long term,
slow burn front work of building power and organizing and
(20:09):
that doesn't change just because you know, that doesn't change,
you know, just because the political dynamics change, right, Like,
we have to invest in each other, We have to
invest in building in the infrastructure, We have to invest
in organizing people both on and offline, meeting folks in
real life where they are, and that remains the work.
(20:31):
And the way to do that, you know, for us
is then to also be clear eyed about you know,
what we're for and who's standing are in our way
to live in the world that we want to live in,
right and so like if we want a world which
I think most people do, where like folks are able
to provide for themselves and their families right to you know,
(20:55):
have a job, be able to take care of their
basic needs, afford you know, rent afore health care, afford.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
You know.
Speaker 3 (21:04):
A little bit of leisure maybe definitely like look forward
to retiring. Then needing to be very clear I that
like the folks that are standing in the way of
that are you know, often these very large corporations like
they're you know, the folks who are fighting, you know,
tooth and nail to dismantle the Department of Education. They're
the folks who are fighting, you know, with all of
(21:24):
they have, with all that they have, to undermine the
power of labor and unions. They're the folks that are
fighting with everything they've got to you know, strip folks
of medicare you know, and medicaid. I'm sorry to undermine
the infrastructure that we have for health care and needing
to expose those people every step of the way. You know,
(21:46):
in moments like these, there's no neutrality, and so like
you are really either a part of the problem or
you are a part of the solution and building towards
you know, something different in the future. There is no
My entire business is the destruction of society and partecting
the interests of the elite while society is being you know, deconstructed.
But don't worry, I you know, donate some pro bono
(22:08):
hours for some of these law firms that are being
a tactor, you know, don't worry, you know, we give
some corporate donations to you know, whatever group is in
need over there. It doesn't balance out, right, Like you
actually have to choose the side of a better future.
You have to like choose justice and then act accordingly.
And those are the types of choices we're making in
(22:29):
this moment. Those are the types of conversations and you know,
realization in order to bring people together. Sometimes people talk
about big tent, you know, how to bring more people
to the majority, more people into the fight, giving folks
a clear vision of exactly what we're fighting for, not
just what we're fighting against. It's like a critical ingredient
in that recipe, and it is more clear than ever.
(22:52):
Like we know the world we don't want to live in.
We're in it right, Like we've been in it for
hundreds of years. We're like still in it today. We
know that world very clearly. What we don't know is
what it can look like if we govern with values
of love and justice. Right, we haven't experienced what it
can look like if we've you know, governed from a
perspective of abundance and taking care of everybody in our
neighbors and not everybody looking out for themselves, Like the
(23:15):
individual strategy has not worked. This capitalistic strategy has not worked.
The putting profits over people that has not worked. We
had like to me, it's very clear we have to
try something different, and that's you know what we're working
and organizing towards. At Color of Change.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
Porsia speak to us about the dismantling of the Department
of Education and what does America look like without a
Department of Education.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
You know, it's funny because I also think we know
what that America looks like too, right, it looks like
public education prior to Brown. So the Department of Education
is a direct legacy of the civil rights movement, right,
the promise of the Civil Rights Act and education as
a pathway to opportunity, the promise of Brown v. Board
(24:07):
of Education, right in prohibiting or striking down separate but equal,
and you know, prohibiting discrimination in public education. None of
those promises were meaningful without enforcement. And the Department of
Education has been every step of the way, the agency
that ensures that the states and local you know, governments
(24:29):
and board of education follow the law and ensure that
people are able to access opportunity. Right, and they do
that you know, through civil rights enforcement, enforcement of you know,
laws that provide for the provision of special education services.
This the Department of Education also administers you know, student
(24:51):
loans and student loans as has it always been perfect, No,
not at all. Has it allowed folks to act sus
opportunities that prior you know, to the administration would have
just been out of reach because of a lack of funds. Yes,
like you know, the administer Pelgramts, you know, also critical
to you know, opening up opportunities, you know, to higher
(25:14):
education for students. And so there are so many things
that the agency does that not only are critical to protect,
but without protecting them and allowing them to be eroded,
whether that is through you know, the firing of critical
you know, agency staff, whether that is this silly proposal
to send some of the functions to other parts of
(25:36):
the government and trying to trick people, you know, into
the idea that don't worry, it'll just be this, you know,
it'll be the same thing, It'll just exist in other places.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
You know.
Speaker 3 (25:45):
The Department of Education has really been critical in holding
open the promise of opportunity and recognizing how important education
has been to economic mobility for black people. We really
should then be cern about what it looks like and
the generations to come about the role that education plays
(26:07):
and how it plays it and whether you know that
promise is even possible to fulfill. In addition to all
of the very like practical questions that everyone across the
country is going to experience, right like, the dismantling of
the department and the eroding of the funding won't just
impact children, although it will impact the ninety percent of
kids that attend public schools, right, but it'll impact you know,
(26:28):
if it's not this year, it's the year after when
states are trying to figure out how they're going to
pay for their schools, and you know, localities are trying
to figure out how they're going to pay for their schools.
They only have a couple of mechanisms, and the primary
mechanism is taxes. And so everybody will, you know, across
the country will potentially be impacted if the federal government
(26:50):
abdicates its duty, you know, to provide education and opportunity
through funding and the funding of critical public school infrastructure
wide
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