March 1, 2025 • 27 mins
Our guest is The Honorable Judge Cody Williams—a former Council member for the City of Phoenix and a Justice of the Peace for Maricopa County. He served as a council member for 8 years and as a judge for 15 years.
In the first half of the show, we discuss local politics and the roles of city governments. We also discuss the differences between state and federal courts and how far their jurisdictions reach.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Broadcasting from the Hip Hop Weekly Studios. I'd like to
welcome you to another episode of Civic Cipher, where our
mission is to foster allyship, empathy and understanding. I'm your host,
Ramsey's job. Big shout out to q Ward, who is
in the City of Angels paving the way for more
opportunities for growth for this show. But he will be
(00:22):
back in the studio with us next week. But have
no fear, because we are going to have a conversation
we've been looking forward to for some time. Today we
are joined by a gentleman who knows how to break
down the legal system, the criminal justice system in this country.
(00:43):
And with recent headlines, with so many things being litigated,
with so many people suing to keep their jobs, with
so many people concerned about what's going to happen with
the country, and what Democrats are doing and what Republicans
are doing, and how things have been tied up in courts,
we wanted to take a moment to break down exactly
(01:05):
what all that means for folks who might not be
intimately familiar with the judicial process in this country. And
so today we are joined by the Honorable Judge Cody Williams,
He is a formal council member for the City of
Phoenix and a Justice of the Peace for Maricopa County.
He served as a council member for eight years and
as a judge for fifteen years. So welcome to the show,
(01:28):
and uh, you know, I'm very much looking forward to,
you know, breaking down again what the what is in
terms of, you know, what judges do, what constitutions work,
and what settings and so forth. But also we're going
to take an examination, a critical examination of, you know,
some of the goings on with respect to this present
(01:51):
administration and so that and so much more to stick
around for so that we can start to make heads
or tails of our path forward. But before we get
too far gone, let's start, as always with some ebony excellence,
and today's any excellence. We're gonna do it a little differently.
We're gonna shout out joy and read and for those
(02:13):
who don't know, MSNBC canceled her show, but Q and
I wanted to shine a spotlight on her fantastic show.
In the meantime, we were going to uplift this incredible
woman and highlight her excellence. So again, a little different,
you know, as I mentioned, her show is recently canceled
by MSNBC, but she put out a statement and I'll
(02:36):
share a bit quote. I just want to say thank
you to everyone who has reached out with kindness and encouragement,
both personally and in these social media streets. So very
proud of the Readout team, who are truly family and
all of our supporters and friends. Be sure to follow
her on all social media platforms. Joy and read, j O,
Y A, N N R, E I D. And if
(02:57):
you want to let MSNBC know how you feel about
this move, you can let them know at two one
two six eight four four four four four. Uh, press
one and two again. That's two one, two six eight
four four four four four press prompts one and two
and UH. If you don't know, you know who you're following.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
Joanne reach You graduated from Harvard University in ninety one.
She was a two thousand and three Night Center for
Advanced Journalism Fellow. In twenty seventeen, she ranked fourth among
Twitter's top tweeted news outlets and was the most tweeted
journalist at each outlet. She has received media awards from
the News Women's Club of New York for the Front
Page Awards for Lifetime Achievement, Women's Media Center, the National
(03:40):
Action Network, and the National Association of Black Journalists the NABJ,
and her work has been nominated for an Emmy Award,
a GLAD Media Award, and two NAACP Image Awards. And
so just an incredible voice, a shero of hours on
this show, and you know we uplift each other and
so again, do us a favor. Be sure to follow
joy and Okay, now, the honorable Judge Cody Williams. I
(04:09):
gave a very brief introduction, and you've been on the
show before, but it's been some time. For the benefit
of our listeners, talk a little bit about you, your
journey so that they know who they'll be listening to
this time and sort of what qualifies you to have
this conversation today.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
Well, first, before I get into me, when you speak
about Ms Reid and the fact that her show is lost,
I need your listeners. I need you guys to recognize
that this could be a pattern that many of those loud,
outspoken voices who were more liberal than the conservative mindset
(04:50):
that we have Ashley now and even regionally, if if
not for you and your show and shows like yours.
If not for other journalists who are African American who
raise the point in spite of the backlash and the
risk of their jobs, we won't have that voice. And
(05:13):
so it's very important that not only do we celebrate,
but that we support her in her next gyration. She's
not going to go away. There will be you will
see her again, and there are people that we want
to make sure we continue to stay vigilant about that
we don't let them be railroaded because of their voice
(05:38):
against what could be considered a very oppressive regime more
than there are the opportunity to say those things in
different venues. So I just wanted to put that out.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Yes, I'm glad you don't mind.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
But most first and foremost, I was born and raised
in Phoenix, Arizona, and basically from high school I went
to college on a basketball scholarship at the University of Oklahoma,
did my four years there, graduated with a finance degree
from Oklahoma University, came back to Arizona, worked in banking,
(06:20):
in tech and then finally in the city of Phoenix.
I was the Equal Opportunity director at that time before
I had an opportunity to run for city council. And
in that time frame, I got a master's at Arizona
State University and Business administration, and another one at the
(06:42):
John F. Kennedy School at Harvard in State and local government.
So a lot of information don't use but maybe twenty
percent of it this day. But was prepared to have
an opportunity to run for office, and I ran for
city council. So I became the third African American in
the city of Phoenix to be a city council person
(07:06):
and did that for eight years. After those eight years,
I became the President and CEO of the Greater Phoenix
Black Chamber of Commerce. Did that for four and a
half years before I was appointed to the position of
Justice of the Peace and subsequently ran four five additional
elections and retired from being a judge. Justice of the
(07:31):
Peace is a judge in December of twenty twenty two.
So I continue to spend time in courtrooms. I'll be
in court all day tomorrow sitting at the bench, but
most of the time I get a chance to do
what I'm doing here with you, speaking to schools. Have
(07:51):
been very active as I normally am during the Black
History Month. Speaking to as many folks as I can,
it gives me a lot of background off of opportunities
to find out what people are interested in, what's going on,
what the questions are, and to try to expand their
(08:11):
knowledge base as I expand mine.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
Okay, okay, fantastic. So let's now that we understand who
we're talking to and that you're well qualified, you know,
for the layman. Again, as I mentioned, there's a lot
of goings on politically right now, a lot of shaking up,
so to speak, and for folks that aren't quite able
to make heads or tails of it, explain Well, first
(08:34):
we'll start here. Explain what a city council member does,
because there are a lot of people who have since
the last election said, hey, you know what, this administration
does not represent me, and I need to get involved.
Where can I get involved in For a lot of
people that's just right there in their own community and
city council members, it might be more achievable than like senator,
(08:56):
you know, congressman. So what is a city count That's.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
A very good question because the most for most people,
the local politics are the most important. I mean, it's
as simple as school board all the way up to
the city council person, and you know, even county supervisors.
In that respect, most are elected, some are called aldermen,
(09:21):
some are called council people. You know, they have different
but they all represent the citizens of a particular jurisdiction,
primarily a city. And there are two kinds of governments
and most cities. One is called a strong mayor form
of government. The other is called a council a city
(09:44):
manager form of government. The distinction is is, let's take
La or New York strong mayor governments, and what that
means is that the city structure, all of its infrastructure
of employedloyees and work fall under the guidance of the
mayor itself, and the mayor hires an administrator, chief of staff,
(10:09):
whatever you want to call that person, and that person
is responsible for hiring all of the department heads and
all of the deputies and all of the individuals. The
city council in that kind of government still may represent
a district, they may represent an at large, meaning they
represent the entire city, but in doing so, they approve
(10:32):
the mayor's budget, they approve some of the things that
are brought by law. In the three forms of government
executive branch, the administrative and judicial, and they separate those
making sure But there are many cities that have their
strong mayor that also covers their school district, so they
(10:54):
may have a large school district that is run underneath
the city of administrator who works for the mayor. The
council manager form means that like in Phoenix, and we're
the largest city that has this form of government where
the mayor and the city council all vote on the
(11:17):
same thing at the same time. And so if the
mayor is on the losing side because they have four
votes on the other side at five, then that's how
it works. And sometimes the mayor may be on the
side with six people to three. But the reality is
is that everything is brought to the entire body for discussion,
(11:39):
and the only individuals that the mayor and council hire
are the mayor, excuse me, are the city manager and
the chief Justice of the municipal court, again separating those
three branches of government, and so the city manager has
to be much more conscious of making sure that all
(12:02):
of the districts, every aspect of the city receives the
proper amount of resources, and say, for instance, if I'm
a strong mayor and you're a council person and we
don't get along, I have the ability even though these
are my citizens too, and as a mayor, I may
give you less of a particular resource, let's say, trash pickup,
(12:27):
uncontained trash pickup. You know, I may not send those veal.
I may say to my administrator, make sure you don't
give council member job any of those opportunities. Send it
all over to the other districts. Really, whereas the city
manager is it could be fired by us. So if
(12:49):
you felt that that person was being disloyal or not
giving your citizens the right type of respond in services,
and then you and four others could fire them because
you would have them if nine was the number. I'm
just using nine as an example. But if you and
four other members of the council, even including the mayorat
(13:13):
voted to fire the city manager, you could do that.
But the city managers typically are much more conscious in
that regard. They don't have a political issue to address.
You're not trying to be re elected. They are staff people,
and they want the staffs of all of the districts
(13:35):
at the staff members that they represent to represent all
of the districts and all of the individuals who work there.
So that's what a city council member, you know, I
advocated as a city council and I advocated for change.
I wanted to bring investment into the South side of
(13:55):
the City of Phoenix, which was much maligned, considered to
be very heavily the crime written, and no new investment.
So I did things like bus tours where I brought
individuals who were investors and real estate people and city
staff and bankers to my community to show them these areas.
(14:18):
This is what you hear about. It's not accurately portrayed.
See for yourself. You know, here's this beautiful area here.
Have you ever seen this before? And many people were like, wow,
we're blown away and didn't know that it was like this.
We just listened to what was on the TV and
the media, and almost every I did fifteen of them
in my eight year, two year term, two four year terms,
(14:42):
fifteen bus tours. Each tour, someone got off the bus
purchased some land and developed it, and so that helps
to bring property values up. My community was heavily African
American and heavily Hispanic as well. Lass with the balance
of Anglos, you white people who lived in that area,
(15:05):
so very diverse, very very diverse community, and we were
able to bring property values up, which of course brings
wealth into thebity to those neighborhoods. We improve streets, we
reduce crime. We stopped cruising, which immediately dropped crime, which
was really really a big deal for us to do something.
(15:28):
It was very controversial, but it was also something that
had gotten out of hand. And immediately the areas that
we look at crime, at the statistical categories, you could
see them all dropping.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
So how about this. I like your point where you
said that you know that is that position city council
members is a great position to be able to affect
change in your day to day life, and I think
that your story is kind of a testament to that.
Now let's shift gears a bit here, because again, you're
in a unique position to teach us about another side
(16:03):
of the government. So talk to us about what is
the role of a judge or justice of the peace.
And I know that that's a simple question, but you know,
just so that we have it out on the table well, and.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
I know you have listeners all around the country and
Arizona is one of the states that has within its
constitution the ability to have justice of the peace as
part of their judicial makeup. And so when you think
about Arizona, we have fifteen counties and each one of
(16:37):
those counties has a superior court system where the lead
person is the chief justice of the superior court. So
imagine they're fifteen of those. Then you've got your various
areas or family courts, you got criminal courts, you've got
lawsuits for property and all of those kinds of things. Well,
(17:01):
as you move down you get into what's called limited
jurisdiction and a city court like the City of Phoenix's
court or Scottsdale or Glendale. If you have something you
get a speeding ticket in one of those jurisdictions, you
show up for their courts. In Maricopa County, if DPS
(17:23):
gives you a ticket or a county sheriff gives you
a ticket, they are then brought to the Justice of
the peace. And in the state of Arizona there are
approximately ninety justice of the peace. Maricopa County has twenty
six Justice of the Peace. Each one of them has
a particular area that they run in a District and
(17:46):
Iran in the South Mountain District, and that's who I
represented and we handle about In my court, we handled
about twelve thousand, twelve five cases a year, and those
cases dealt with anything from civil traffic related criminal criminal traffic,
(18:10):
criminal misdemeanors. We had lawsuits under ten thousand dollars, small
claims under thirty five hundred. I did weddings, did over
in my fifteen years, did about five six thousand weddings,
and so of those twelve thousand, you would imagine in
(18:30):
the course of a year that in the court room
you saw about a thousand to fifteen hundred people. You know,
evictions really made the huge number, the largest number of
people in court, whether that was physically in court or
after COVID a lot of it became virtual. And so
(18:53):
regardless of that, you saw most of the people who
were participating in court cases coming out of the justice system,
justice of the peace system, where the we're the only
ones that deal with it. So the City of Phoenix
doesn't deal with evictions, No other courts deal with evictions
unless they exceed ten thousand dollars. Got it, And so
(19:16):
that's what we did. Most of we did orders of
protection and injunctions against harassment. So we saw a lot
of people for their first time ever having to be
in court.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
Okay, so so talk to us about the difference between
state judges and federal judges. You know, again for people
that don't know, talk about jurisdiction, talk about you know,
who has more power or when certain people yield certain power.
So just so that we again have a framework of that.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
Well, and that's very very very good question, and it's
a little more complicated than you know, maybe we have
time to go into, but just to try to break
it down simplistically, is the United States federal system judicially
(20:12):
is what most states are modeled after. And once the
states have their particular things, as long as the laws
that they choose to pass an institute don't violate the
federal interpretation of those laws, then they can have something different.
(20:37):
For instance, someone is distributing drugs within the boundaries of
the state of Arizona, they are arrested. They would then
be prosecuted by either a city prosecutor or a county
prosecutor or a state prosecut depends on what jurisdiction they
were caught in. Big sting opera it happens in Phoenix,
(21:01):
then Phoenix would take the lead. But the county supervisor,
excuse me, the county attorney and the Attorney general, they
also have similar abilities to weigh in if they chose to.
But if that same person was distributing drugs within the
state of Arizona and then drove to New Mexico and
began to do the same thing, now they've gone over
(21:25):
the state lines, and the two institutions, the State of
New Mexico state of Arizona would have to give way
to the fact that this person has inter has interstate
drug trafficking now as part of their issues. So they
could be tried both at the federal level for going
(21:48):
across and in the state of Arizona and New Mexico
if they're caught doing it in both places, and they
can be sentenced to time both at the federal level,
and then once they've completed that can then be responsible
for serving time in New Mexico and or Arizona. Now,
(22:09):
there are many times when the jurisdictions get together and
they say, hey, look, will you know everybody's found him
guilty or her guilty of whatever the issue is. But
rather than bouncing around to three different jurisdictions. We'll just
sentence him here and he will serve out his time concurrently,
what you give him, what they give him here, all
(22:31):
in the same state of Arizona. So when you think
about the state, Let's say you are driving in Arizona
on a wide open freeway at seventy five miles an hour.
That's a state law. But if you go to California,
that same speed limit may be seventy Yeah. I know, yeah,
(22:55):
so I trust me. I've I mentioned it educationally, not
to say that I don't know that for sure, but
at the same time, those are state laws, and so
you can have similar issues. That's why in my court
numerous times I had people come in and say, well,
(23:15):
I'm from Maryland or I'm from Ohio, and that's just
that's not how we did it there, and you have
to say, I'm very sorry, but you're in Arizona now,
in the Arizona version of this law, you know, particularly
when it comes to eviction related matters. You know, Arizona
is a state that is viewed by many as being
(23:39):
pro landlord more so than it is pro tenant, whereas
in other places across the country, there are pro tenant laws.
For instance, if you are supposed to fix my plumbing
and you don't, if I'm in another state that's pro tenant,
(24:00):
then I can withhold rent until you take care of it.
Whereas in Arizona, if I ask you to fix it
and you don't, I can't rent strike, I can't not
give you money if I stay in that unit. But
what I can do is I can take the money
that I have fix it, fix it and give itself
(24:22):
and give you the receives after I've told you, I've
asked you for a week. Now I ask you for
two weeks. I've got the records of my emails showing
you these things, and you won't do it. Sure, as
long as I get a licensed, bonded contractor to fix it,
then you have to accept that difference.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
So how about this? You mentioned that my understanding we
just have about maybe a minute left, but just in brief,
my understanding is that it always has been that the
federal government federal laws supersede the laws of the state. Right,
And you mentioned earlier too that states have their own
(25:00):
constitutions based off of the federal the model modeled after Okay,
so is it safe to say that the federal government
and the federal Constitution is indeed the law of the land,
and state courts really are at the mercy of the
(25:21):
decisions of the federal government.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
In many respects, that's correct, but also in many respects,
the federal government in some cases just may not care.
For instance, legalizing marijuana. Marijuana is still illegal federally in
the United States, but there are more states now who
(25:44):
have legalized both recreational and medical use for marijuana than
there are not and most of them are on their way.
I mean literally eighty percent of the states have done that,
but none of them, none of those states are fearing
retribution from the federal government. Okay, because the government, federal
(26:04):
government is not acting on that.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
Okay, Well, I need just a one word answer. I
know that might be tough, but we'll get back to
it on the second part of the show. Is it possible,
it's just for me. Is it possible, given the state
of the government, to see Trump overrule the Constitution? You know,
(26:27):
I recognize there are three branches, but you know, people
are worried about you know, a third term people are
worried about the freedom of the press is do you
think that that's possible. Just a brief yes or NOM
will break it down. No, No, okay, that's what I
wanted to know. I think that these questions are our
mission critical for you know, a path forward, regardless of
(26:49):
your affiliation. And I think that these questions is really
important that they're answered for people who are very very
worried about their standing insofar as the government is concerned
in their prospects and so, yeah, and I appreciate ate
your time on that
Broadcasting from the Hip Hop Weekly Studios. I'd like to
welcome you to another episode of Civic Cipher, where our
mission is to foster allyship, empathy and understanding. I'm your host,
Ramsey's job. Big shout out to q Ward, who is
in the City of Angels paving the way for more
opportunities for growth for this show. But he will be
(00:22):
back in the studio with us next week. But have
no fear, because we are going to have a conversation
we've been looking forward to for some time. Today we
are joined by a gentleman who knows how to break
down the legal system, the criminal justice system in this country.
(00:43):
And with recent headlines, with so many things being litigated,
with so many people suing to keep their jobs, with
so many people concerned about what's going to happen with
the country, and what Democrats are doing and what Republicans
are doing, and how things have been tied up in courts,
we wanted to take a moment to break down exactly
(01:05):
what all that means for folks who might not be
intimately familiar with the judicial process in this country. And
so today we are joined by the Honorable Judge Cody Williams,
He is a formal council member for the City of
Phoenix and a Justice of the Peace for Maricopa County.
He served as a council member for eight years and
as a judge for fifteen years. So welcome to the show,
(01:28):
and uh, you know, I'm very much looking forward to,
you know, breaking down again what the what is in
terms of, you know, what judges do, what constitutions work,
and what settings and so forth. But also we're going
to take an examination, a critical examination of, you know,
some of the goings on with respect to this present
(01:51):
administration and so that and so much more to stick
around for so that we can start to make heads
or tails of our path forward. But before we get
too far gone, let's start, as always with some ebony excellence,
and today's any excellence. We're gonna do it a little differently.
We're gonna shout out joy and read and for those
(02:13):
who don't know, MSNBC canceled her show, but Q and
I wanted to shine a spotlight on her fantastic show.
In the meantime, we were going to uplift this incredible
woman and highlight her excellence. So again, a little different,
you know, as I mentioned, her show is recently canceled
by MSNBC, but she put out a statement and I'll
(02:36):
share a bit quote. I just want to say thank
you to everyone who has reached out with kindness and encouragement,
both personally and in these social media streets. So very
proud of the Readout team, who are truly family and
all of our supporters and friends. Be sure to follow
her on all social media platforms. Joy and read, j O,
Y A, N N R, E I D. And if
(02:57):
you want to let MSNBC know how you feel about
this move, you can let them know at two one
two six eight four four four four four. Uh, press
one and two again. That's two one, two six eight
four four four four four press prompts one and two
and UH. If you don't know, you know who you're following.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
Joanne reach You graduated from Harvard University in ninety one.
She was a two thousand and three Night Center for
Advanced Journalism Fellow. In twenty seventeen, she ranked fourth among
Twitter's top tweeted news outlets and was the most tweeted
journalist at each outlet. She has received media awards from
the News Women's Club of New York for the Front
Page Awards for Lifetime Achievement, Women's Media Center, the National
(03:40):
Action Network, and the National Association of Black Journalists the NABJ,
and her work has been nominated for an Emmy Award,
a GLAD Media Award, and two NAACP Image Awards. And
so just an incredible voice, a shero of hours on
this show, and you know we uplift each other and
so again, do us a favor. Be sure to follow
joy and Okay, now, the honorable Judge Cody Williams. I
(04:09):
gave a very brief introduction, and you've been on the
show before, but it's been some time. For the benefit
of our listeners, talk a little bit about you, your
journey so that they know who they'll be listening to
this time and sort of what qualifies you to have
this conversation today.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
Well, first, before I get into me, when you speak
about Ms Reid and the fact that her show is lost,
I need your listeners. I need you guys to recognize
that this could be a pattern that many of those loud,
outspoken voices who were more liberal than the conservative mindset
(04:50):
that we have Ashley now and even regionally, if if
not for you and your show and shows like yours.
If not for other journalists who are African American who
raise the point in spite of the backlash and the
risk of their jobs, we won't have that voice. And
(05:13):
so it's very important that not only do we celebrate,
but that we support her in her next gyration. She's
not going to go away. There will be you will
see her again, and there are people that we want
to make sure we continue to stay vigilant about that
we don't let them be railroaded because of their voice
(05:38):
against what could be considered a very oppressive regime more
than there are the opportunity to say those things in
different venues. So I just wanted to put that out.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Yes, I'm glad you don't mind.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
But most first and foremost, I was born and raised
in Phoenix, Arizona, and basically from high school I went
to college on a basketball scholarship at the University of Oklahoma,
did my four years there, graduated with a finance degree
from Oklahoma University, came back to Arizona, worked in banking,
(06:20):
in tech and then finally in the city of Phoenix.
I was the Equal Opportunity director at that time before
I had an opportunity to run for city council. And
in that time frame, I got a master's at Arizona
State University and Business administration, and another one at the
(06:42):
John F. Kennedy School at Harvard in State and local government.
So a lot of information don't use but maybe twenty
percent of it this day. But was prepared to have
an opportunity to run for office, and I ran for
city council. So I became the third African American in
the city of Phoenix to be a city council person
(07:06):
and did that for eight years. After those eight years,
I became the President and CEO of the Greater Phoenix
Black Chamber of Commerce. Did that for four and a
half years before I was appointed to the position of
Justice of the Peace and subsequently ran four five additional
elections and retired from being a judge. Justice of the
(07:31):
Peace is a judge in December of twenty twenty two.
So I continue to spend time in courtrooms. I'll be
in court all day tomorrow sitting at the bench, but
most of the time I get a chance to do
what I'm doing here with you, speaking to schools. Have
(07:51):
been very active as I normally am during the Black
History Month. Speaking to as many folks as I can,
it gives me a lot of background off of opportunities
to find out what people are interested in, what's going on,
what the questions are, and to try to expand their
(08:11):
knowledge base as I expand mine.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
Okay, okay, fantastic. So let's now that we understand who
we're talking to and that you're well qualified, you know,
for the layman. Again, as I mentioned, there's a lot
of goings on politically right now, a lot of shaking up,
so to speak, and for folks that aren't quite able
to make heads or tails of it, explain Well, first
(08:34):
we'll start here. Explain what a city council member does,
because there are a lot of people who have since
the last election said, hey, you know what, this administration
does not represent me, and I need to get involved.
Where can I get involved in For a lot of
people that's just right there in their own community and
city council members, it might be more achievable than like senator,
(08:56):
you know, congressman. So what is a city count That's.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
A very good question because the most for most people,
the local politics are the most important. I mean, it's
as simple as school board all the way up to
the city council person, and you know, even county supervisors.
In that respect, most are elected, some are called aldermen,
(09:21):
some are called council people. You know, they have different
but they all represent the citizens of a particular jurisdiction,
primarily a city. And there are two kinds of governments
and most cities. One is called a strong mayor form
of government. The other is called a council a city
(09:44):
manager form of government. The distinction is is, let's take
La or New York strong mayor governments, and what that
means is that the city structure, all of its infrastructure
of employedloyees and work fall under the guidance of the
mayor itself, and the mayor hires an administrator, chief of staff,
(10:09):
whatever you want to call that person, and that person
is responsible for hiring all of the department heads and
all of the deputies and all of the individuals. The
city council in that kind of government still may represent
a district, they may represent an at large, meaning they
represent the entire city, but in doing so, they approve
(10:32):
the mayor's budget, they approve some of the things that
are brought by law. In the three forms of government
executive branch, the administrative and judicial, and they separate those
making sure But there are many cities that have their
strong mayor that also covers their school district, so they
(10:54):
may have a large school district that is run underneath
the city of administrator who works for the mayor. The
council manager form means that like in Phoenix, and we're
the largest city that has this form of government where
the mayor and the city council all vote on the
(11:17):
same thing at the same time. And so if the
mayor is on the losing side because they have four
votes on the other side at five, then that's how
it works. And sometimes the mayor may be on the
side with six people to three. But the reality is
is that everything is brought to the entire body for discussion,
(11:39):
and the only individuals that the mayor and council hire
are the mayor, excuse me, are the city manager and
the chief Justice of the municipal court, again separating those
three branches of government, and so the city manager has
to be much more conscious of making sure that all
(12:02):
of the districts, every aspect of the city receives the
proper amount of resources, and say, for instance, if I'm
a strong mayor and you're a council person and we
don't get along, I have the ability even though these
are my citizens too, and as a mayor, I may
give you less of a particular resource, let's say, trash pickup,
(12:27):
uncontained trash pickup. You know, I may not send those veal.
I may say to my administrator, make sure you don't
give council member job any of those opportunities. Send it
all over to the other districts. Really, whereas the city
manager is it could be fired by us. So if
(12:49):
you felt that that person was being disloyal or not
giving your citizens the right type of respond in services,
and then you and four others could fire them because
you would have them if nine was the number. I'm
just using nine as an example. But if you and
four other members of the council, even including the mayorat
(13:13):
voted to fire the city manager, you could do that.
But the city managers typically are much more conscious in
that regard. They don't have a political issue to address.
You're not trying to be re elected. They are staff people,
and they want the staffs of all of the districts
(13:35):
at the staff members that they represent to represent all
of the districts and all of the individuals who work there.
So that's what a city council member, you know, I
advocated as a city council and I advocated for change.
I wanted to bring investment into the South side of
(13:55):
the City of Phoenix, which was much maligned, considered to
be very heavily the crime written, and no new investment.
So I did things like bus tours where I brought
individuals who were investors and real estate people and city
staff and bankers to my community to show them these areas.
(14:18):
This is what you hear about. It's not accurately portrayed.
See for yourself. You know, here's this beautiful area here.
Have you ever seen this before? And many people were like, wow,
we're blown away and didn't know that it was like this.
We just listened to what was on the TV and
the media, and almost every I did fifteen of them
in my eight year, two year term, two four year terms,
(14:42):
fifteen bus tours. Each tour, someone got off the bus
purchased some land and developed it, and so that helps
to bring property values up. My community was heavily African
American and heavily Hispanic as well. Lass with the balance
of Anglos, you white people who lived in that area,
(15:05):
so very diverse, very very diverse community, and we were
able to bring property values up, which of course brings
wealth into thebity to those neighborhoods. We improve streets, we
reduce crime. We stopped cruising, which immediately dropped crime, which
was really really a big deal for us to do something.
(15:28):
It was very controversial, but it was also something that
had gotten out of hand. And immediately the areas that
we look at crime, at the statistical categories, you could
see them all dropping.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
So how about this. I like your point where you
said that you know that is that position city council
members is a great position to be able to affect
change in your day to day life, and I think
that your story is kind of a testament to that.
Now let's shift gears a bit here, because again, you're
in a unique position to teach us about another side
(16:03):
of the government. So talk to us about what is
the role of a judge or justice of the peace.
And I know that that's a simple question, but you know,
just so that we have it out on the table well, and.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
I know you have listeners all around the country and
Arizona is one of the states that has within its
constitution the ability to have justice of the peace as
part of their judicial makeup. And so when you think
about Arizona, we have fifteen counties and each one of
(16:37):
those counties has a superior court system where the lead
person is the chief justice of the superior court. So
imagine they're fifteen of those. Then you've got your various
areas or family courts, you got criminal courts, you've got
lawsuits for property and all of those kinds of things. Well,
(17:01):
as you move down you get into what's called limited
jurisdiction and a city court like the City of Phoenix's
court or Scottsdale or Glendale. If you have something you
get a speeding ticket in one of those jurisdictions, you
show up for their courts. In Maricopa County, if DPS
(17:23):
gives you a ticket or a county sheriff gives you
a ticket, they are then brought to the Justice of
the peace. And in the state of Arizona there are
approximately ninety justice of the peace. Maricopa County has twenty
six Justice of the Peace. Each one of them has
a particular area that they run in a District and
(17:46):
Iran in the South Mountain District, and that's who I
represented and we handle about In my court, we handled
about twelve thousand, twelve five cases a year, and those
cases dealt with anything from civil traffic related criminal criminal traffic,
(18:10):
criminal misdemeanors. We had lawsuits under ten thousand dollars, small
claims under thirty five hundred. I did weddings, did over
in my fifteen years, did about five six thousand weddings,
and so of those twelve thousand, you would imagine in
(18:30):
the course of a year that in the court room
you saw about a thousand to fifteen hundred people. You know,
evictions really made the huge number, the largest number of
people in court, whether that was physically in court or
after COVID a lot of it became virtual. And so
(18:53):
regardless of that, you saw most of the people who
were participating in court cases coming out of the justice system,
justice of the peace system, where the we're the only
ones that deal with it. So the City of Phoenix
doesn't deal with evictions, No other courts deal with evictions
unless they exceed ten thousand dollars. Got it, And so
(19:16):
that's what we did. Most of we did orders of
protection and injunctions against harassment. So we saw a lot
of people for their first time ever having to be
in court.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
Okay, so so talk to us about the difference between
state judges and federal judges. You know, again for people
that don't know, talk about jurisdiction, talk about you know,
who has more power or when certain people yield certain power.
So just so that we again have a framework of that.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
Well, and that's very very very good question, and it's
a little more complicated than you know, maybe we have
time to go into, but just to try to break
it down simplistically, is the United States federal system judicially
(20:12):
is what most states are modeled after. And once the
states have their particular things, as long as the laws
that they choose to pass an institute don't violate the
federal interpretation of those laws, then they can have something different.
(20:37):
For instance, someone is distributing drugs within the boundaries of
the state of Arizona, they are arrested. They would then
be prosecuted by either a city prosecutor or a county
prosecutor or a state prosecut depends on what jurisdiction they
were caught in. Big sting opera it happens in Phoenix,
(21:01):
then Phoenix would take the lead. But the county supervisor,
excuse me, the county attorney and the Attorney general, they
also have similar abilities to weigh in if they chose to.
But if that same person was distributing drugs within the
state of Arizona and then drove to New Mexico and
began to do the same thing, now they've gone over
(21:25):
the state lines, and the two institutions, the State of
New Mexico state of Arizona would have to give way
to the fact that this person has inter has interstate
drug trafficking now as part of their issues. So they
could be tried both at the federal level for going
(21:48):
across and in the state of Arizona and New Mexico
if they're caught doing it in both places, and they
can be sentenced to time both at the federal level,
and then once they've completed that can then be responsible
for serving time in New Mexico and or Arizona. Now,
(22:09):
there are many times when the jurisdictions get together and
they say, hey, look, will you know everybody's found him
guilty or her guilty of whatever the issue is. But
rather than bouncing around to three different jurisdictions. We'll just
sentence him here and he will serve out his time concurrently,
what you give him, what they give him here, all
(22:31):
in the same state of Arizona. So when you think
about the state, Let's say you are driving in Arizona
on a wide open freeway at seventy five miles an hour.
That's a state law. But if you go to California,
that same speed limit may be seventy Yeah. I know, yeah,
(22:55):
so I trust me. I've I mentioned it educationally, not
to say that I don't know that for sure, but
at the same time, those are state laws, and so
you can have similar issues. That's why in my court
numerous times I had people come in and say, well,
(23:15):
I'm from Maryland or I'm from Ohio, and that's just
that's not how we did it there, and you have
to say, I'm very sorry, but you're in Arizona now,
in the Arizona version of this law, you know, particularly
when it comes to eviction related matters. You know, Arizona
is a state that is viewed by many as being
(23:39):
pro landlord more so than it is pro tenant, whereas
in other places across the country, there are pro tenant laws.
For instance, if you are supposed to fix my plumbing
and you don't, if I'm in another state that's pro tenant,
(24:00):
then I can withhold rent until you take care of it.
Whereas in Arizona, if I ask you to fix it
and you don't, I can't rent strike, I can't not
give you money if I stay in that unit. But
what I can do is I can take the money
that I have fix it, fix it and give itself
(24:22):
and give you the receives after I've told you, I've
asked you for a week. Now I ask you for
two weeks. I've got the records of my emails showing
you these things, and you won't do it. Sure, as
long as I get a licensed, bonded contractor to fix it,
then you have to accept that difference.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
So how about this? You mentioned that my understanding we
just have about maybe a minute left, but just in brief,
my understanding is that it always has been that the
federal government federal laws supersede the laws of the state. Right,
And you mentioned earlier too that states have their own
(25:00):
constitutions based off of the federal the model modeled after Okay,
so is it safe to say that the federal government
and the federal Constitution is indeed the law of the land,
and state courts really are at the mercy of the
(25:21):
decisions of the federal government.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
In many respects, that's correct, but also in many respects,
the federal government in some cases just may not care.
For instance, legalizing marijuana. Marijuana is still illegal federally in
the United States, but there are more states now who
(25:44):
have legalized both recreational and medical use for marijuana than
there are not and most of them are on their way.
I mean literally eighty percent of the states have done that,
but none of them, none of those states are fearing
retribution from the federal government. Okay, because the government, federal
(26:04):
government is not acting on that.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
Okay, Well, I need just a one word answer. I
know that might be tough, but we'll get back to
it on the second part of the show. Is it possible,
it's just for me. Is it possible, given the state
of the government, to see Trump overrule the Constitution? You know,
(26:27):
I recognize there are three branches, but you know, people
are worried about you know, a third term people are
worried about the freedom of the press is do you
think that that's possible. Just a brief yes or NOM
will break it down. No, No, okay, that's what I
wanted to know. I think that these questions are our
mission critical for you know, a path forward, regardless of
(26:49):
your affiliation. And I think that these questions is really
important that they're answered for people who are very very
worried about their standing insofar as the government is concerned
in their prospects and so, yeah, and I appreciate ate
your time on that
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