July 31, 2025 • 56 mins
Lake Bell is known for acting, directing and screenwriting, and now she adds children’s author to her credits! Inspired by her young daughter’s journey with epilepsy, Lake hopes “All About Brains: A Book About People” will normalize the conversation about neurodivergency -- something Sophia wished people were doing when she was a child!
Lake and Sophia get real about everything from politics to parenthood, including the plight of being a night owl with kids.
Plus, Sophia shares a wild encounter inside an airport bathroom that’ll have every woman wondering what she’d do in that situation. “All About Brains: A Book About People” is available at booksellers everywhere.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress. Hello
whip smarties. Today we are joined by one of my
favorite smart, creative, I mean brilliant women, who also happens
(00:23):
to be one of the coolest chicks that I know.
Today's guest is actress, writer and director Lake Bell, who
is starring in the upcoming series The Chair Company on HBO,
and who has just released a book inspired by her daughter.
The book is called All About Brains, a Book about people,
(00:44):
and it is a whimsical story that celebrates the ways
all of our different brains make us special in a
lighthearted and you'll hear me crying emotional exploration of neurodiversity.
The book was inspired by Lake's own daughter, Nova, and
we're going to talk about what it's like to be
a parent of a brilliant and different kid, what both
(01:07):
of our journeys with families look like, and how she
views her career as both a personal sense of expression
and as a real responsibility. Because with a platform comes privilege,
and Lake is so amazing at mobilizing her privilege for
others in really beautiful and inclusive ways. Let's dive in
(01:27):
with Lake Bell. I was reading so many articles about
your audiobook because it fascinates me. And also I feel
like I needed to go back in time a little bit.
(01:48):
And when you were talking about having a voice, like
you have a voice similar to I'll.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Say you yeah, you were on the list of unique voices.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Well just in terms of what it was like as
a young actor, particularly not sounding like all a little
angen news.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
Yeah. Yeah, I was like, oh my god, same girl.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
I feel it.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Yeah, well I think it. I think, you know, definitely,
it's more. It affects more than you realize. I think
it's like, sure, you can look a certain way, you
can imbue a certain amount of qualities that isuesque, but
then if your sound is different, there's like a juna
(02:34):
sequa that might or either get you the role or
not get you the role. Yeah, or have someone even
in an interview situation or a meeting a potential partner
for the first time, you know, whatever it is, you're like, oh,
we're either going to get along or not. I mean
for me, I you know, there's like a vocal chemistry.
I think, yeah, that happens that I can be highly
(02:58):
adverse to certain sounds. Also because my ears, I think
are I call. I say to my kids, I'm like,
I have wolf hearing, so you got to take it
down or not. It's the same sensitive sensitive hearing, yeah,
which means I'm like picking up on all kinds of
you know, vocal little quirks and qualities and things that
(03:19):
are you know, what's also what's not there, you know,
resonance or like being really tinny, you know, and like pushing.
I'm like, where's your breath? You know?
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Like yeah, like I science of sound and.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
Science of sound and the kind of emotional uh sort
of qualities that I think really either pull you to someone.
It's like a magnet, you know. You hear someone's sound
and you're like, Ooh, I'm attracted to that sound, or
I'm oh god, I'm just repelled by that sound, yeah,
(03:53):
which is like sorry, but you know, it just is
one of those things. I think it's almost like pheromones,
you know, totally.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
I love that well. And I think about particularly that
era we came up in as actors. We were in
the height of sort of sexy baby voice.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Yeah that like Paris hilt any sound Shurtney spears very sexy,
very young, very yeah, vile.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
And I remember I can't recall. I think it must
have been the maybe the second or third season that
we were doing One Tree Hill in Wilmington. You came
to do your show.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Oh yeah, that's right.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
We were there together, yes, and I remember hanging out
with you. I don't remember if it was the apartment
you were in or one of your castmates that used
to be Dennis Hoppers. It was yours, and I remember
just being like, this girl is so cool and I'm
so excited to be her friend. And then your show
moved on and then I was there, which was great,
(04:51):
but I was there alone mostly, and I was so
excited years later to see you again and be like,
hey girl, and it was like the rast ones, We're
still here.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
It is. It's it's interesting. And your sound has just
now that i'm thinking about your sound, your sound and
my sound both have evolved. Like if we took a
clip of us during those earlier years in Williamsburg, Williamton.
Speaker 3 (05:15):
What is it, Wilmington, Wilmington, I'm like, Williamsburg Williamsburg would
have been cool.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
No, in Wilmington, you know, I bet those sounds have
you know, you know, the just the color of life,
you know has occurred where more rasp has coming out,
you know, or you know, also we've arrived in this
space to speak in mics, So my my sound, I'm
aware of my sound being a little more juicy and
(05:41):
a little more liquid than it might be if I'm
kind of just you know, talking to my daughter. I'm like,
that's enough, you know, Like maybe I'm not supporting my
voice as much when I'm when I'm parenting in in chaos.
But you know, I think all of those things are
just so sexy to me, Like you turned me on
so much. I love the things that we don't notice,
(06:06):
you know. And so if we looked back on and
listen to our voices in those early episodes of those shows,
ipekay would sound different than they are right now.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
Oh my god, I would love Well. That sort of
leads me to the question I normally start with with guests,
because you know, you come in, you're promoting something, You've written, something,
you have a film coming out, whatever it is. You
have this gorgeous career and listeners know you as this person.
And I always am curious if you got to go
(06:38):
back in time and hang out with yourself when you
were a kid, maybe when you were your daughter's age,
would you see yourself in that little version of you?
And because it's you, I also want to know, was
that little girl obsessed with sound?
Speaker 2 (06:54):
Yes, so I have to say I was like unabashedly
precocious and super into dorked out nerdy stuff like that.
And I used to put on these at Nova's age,
for sure, maybe even younger, as a procrastination tool to
go to bed. I did not want to go to
a night person, and I was like, I gotta entertain
(07:16):
the adults. So it would be that thing of I
put on voices and you know, play Harry Bellefonte and
you know, throw on an outfit and do a dance number,
you know, musical number. But definitely interested in from an
early age being from New York, especially where you are
surrounded by, whether you like it or not, just sounds
(07:39):
of the city, but then also of a thousand different
cultures and a thousand languages, you know, and how people
spoke even within New York. You know, you had just
this beautiful cacophony of accents and dialects and languages. And
(08:00):
I think that was very integral to my interest in
not just culture but character, you know.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
Yeah, So Where do you think that bug came from?
When did you know you were studying people because you
wanted to play people?
Speaker 2 (08:16):
I think it was super early. I knew I wanted
to be an actor before I understood what it is
to be an actor. I just knew that I wanted
to be characters before I knew that word. I remember
in the eighties growing up in the city, there was
always movie trucks on the side of the road, and
it was usually you know, there would be like Woody
Allen movies being shot and whatnot, or I just remember
(08:39):
this particular one because I was on the Upper East Side,
so you know, he definitely would have lots of things
shot there anyway. So I would be pouting like this
in the taxi cab, say, and my mom would say,
what's wrong, what's up. I'd be like, I'm not even
in that movie, and she's like, you're six, like you know,
(09:03):
and I'm like, yeah, but I didn't even, like, like
there's just movies happening, and like everyone's just making fun
things and I'm not even invited, and you know, and
she'd be like, well, when you grow up, if that's
still what you want to do, you know, you get
to do that. So I just remember being like knowing
I wanted to do it. I want to look, that's
so fun that thing that they do, and I want
(09:23):
to do that. I want to write stories. I want
to be in stories.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
And so you did you have that? I think I
did weirdly, And it was an interesting thing because, you know,
it sort of occurred to me more recently somebody asked
me why I ride really hard for the crew at work,
like you know and not. It was partially a compliment
(09:49):
in the conversation and partially a call out of like,
you know, your job is to be focused on your job.
You don't always have to be making sure everyone else
has everything they need for their job, like that's kind
of their job. And so it was this neat interesting
thing because I was explaining, you know, when you are
in a cast, and certainly when you've worked your way
up to being in you know, the first four numbers,
(10:13):
let alone number one on the call sheet, like you
do have to really advocate for your people. And I
think it was a person pointing out to me maybe
having a slightly altered percentage of where my focus can
go just to ensure that I'm to your point, like
taking care of my instrument, doing the things that I
(10:35):
really need to do for me as well. And I
think it made me click into what it was like
to grow up going to work with my dad a lot,
because he was a photographer, you know, his whole career.
I always say he was, and then I'm like, he
didn't die, he just is retired. To my dad, it's scary,
(10:55):
but you know, I went to work with a crew dadah,
and so I got to see how talent behaved. I
got to see how visiting executives or creative directors behaved,
and I got to see how hard everybody else was
working and how their behavior affected a set though wasn't
often centered, and so I really I cherished that. And
(11:20):
so I think I think I learned how to be
a good crewe person and then eventual producer from working
with my dad. But I don't think I clued into
wanting to be a performer. I just knew art was fun.
And then I think there was a period similarly to you,
because I'm also a night owl where I never wanted
(11:44):
to go to bed, and so I would get caught
watching Dragnet like on Nick at Night or reruns of
mister ed like, I've truly been a grandfather for my
whole life. But then I realized if I could get
my parents to hang out with me, yeah, yeah, then
I could usually stay up a little later.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
Really, do you like the show? Whatever show you guys
want to watch?
Speaker 1 (12:04):
Yeah, And then I'd start doing like a, oh, well,
why don't you let me do the voices? Oh, like,
I'll give I'll give you a performances grandpa yeah and
all his friends in Teenac, you know, and like, then
then I could stay up a little later. And I
had not thought about it in that way until I
was reading your reflections on how you became obsessed with
(12:26):
voice acting, and I was like, oh my god, we
would have been cool a little bit kid friends.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
For sure, we would have stayed up till like two
in the morning.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
I still want to stay up till I know.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Well, kids, we'll be back in just a minute.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
But here's a word from our sponsors. Okay, so this
is my question for you. Completely. Yeah, they were taking
a left turn, but it's perfect thinking about you and
your two kids. Now that I love someone with two kids,
I I am having to become a morning person. Yeah,
(13:03):
because children are mourning people.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
They just want to get up.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
And I am I am a night person and I
mean even like diagnosed circadian rhythm by a sleep doctor. Oh,
you're one of the rare eight percent of people who
is a true night owl. How do you do it
as a mom? You don't have a choice, You just shift.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
Don't have a choice. Yeah, you don't have a choice
at all. And it's like I remember my ex husband,
who's awesome, Scott, was saying, you know, he knew I
was a night owl, and he's like, let's, you know,
drive for a kid. I'm like, yeah, totally, But what
if they're what if what if they're like early birds,
(13:47):
you know, like you? Because he's just like, he'll be
up at five. Oh no, And I am he knew
I was such a night owl. And he's like, I'll
take care of morning shift forever. Don't worry about it.
So you have a kid, and guess what your boobs
(14:07):
are on morning shift, whether you like it or not,
meaning you're attached to your boobs and therefore morning shift occurs,
and then you're just trained. And the truth is, when
you're pregnant, you are the reason. I feel like the
reason why the body keeps you up all hours of
the night and in the morning, and everything is because
(14:27):
the body is just training you to just you sorry,
You're going to have to be doing feedings every two hours.
This is part of the training system that we put
in place, and so the pregnant body just kind of
starts training you. And then by the time you're deposited
on the other side of this like epic life moment
(14:48):
of child birth, you are You're like, I guess I'm
a person who's up all night and also in the morning. Oh,
I know, And then you start to paper off a
little and right when you get comfy, it's like there's
sleep aggression, you know, And so you're just needed. And
the truth is just like you're chemically you're chemically connected
(15:11):
to the progeny and the little being that is wanting sustends,
and so your brain, you know, your body's just like
all right, I'll give you.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
I guess I'm doing.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
It's just like in the same in a similar way.
You know, it's different because it doesn't have the chemical component.
But I love what we do so much, right, Like
I it is so hugely a part of I feel
so grateful and privileged to be able to be a
writer and a director and create these stories as an
(15:45):
actor and oh wow, get to be a part of
this creative ecosystem, you know, family. And so when they
say you have to be on set at six a m.
To be inherent makeup, you're not psyched, but you totally
do it. Yep, you wake up. You gotta get up
at five because you're gonna have to get picked up
(16:05):
by the van IoT fifteen and then the locations X
amount of way. So you're just doing it. Yep, there's
no it's there's no ques. You just do it. And
I think the adjustment of anything in life as an adult,
you know, it's just that. But I hear you. Yeah,
it is when your like body wants to be asleep
(16:26):
at certain times, you know, you just gotta you just.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
Gotta do it. You just gotta Well that's the thing. Yeah,
it's been really interesting and I've nerded out a little
bit on the you know, the sleep prep where I'm like, okay,
this is when I got to turn my screens off. Yeah, yase,
I if I'm watching TV, it's not even it's not
ten nineteen. If it hits ten twenty one, it's like
a little gremlin who's jolly. Yeah in me is like
(16:52):
it's my time now. Yeah, yeah, And I just I
want to reorganize. I want to do laundry. I want
to watch television. I want to watch eight episodes.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Of television, get the whole season.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
It's just so crazy. So I'm kind of like, Okay,
i gotta wind down at nine thirty. I'm gonna put
on your blue light glasses. Two and four oh nah, yeah,
about to be three, okay, just tur and four in it.
Oh yeah. And and my partner's the sweetest human in
the world because she's like, you missed the like warm
loaf of bread, the sleepy baby stage, like you you
(17:23):
came into the this world, our world with two toddlers,
and they're just like up all the time and absolutely amped.
And they are my favorite little humans. Like they're so
funny and so charming and wonderful and wild. And my
godson is right in the age between the two of them,
so it's just like pack of babies everywhere. My two
(17:45):
best friends have have recent one year olds, and it's
just like that's.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
A lot, it's a lot.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
We're having the most fun.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
But yeah, I was like Oh I didn't. I didn't
get the like mostly napping phase. There's just it's just
you sign up for the sleeplessness, you do.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
Yeah, and then you realize, I can't believe that I'm
actually I'm getting through this like you do anyway. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
I also will say in some of the you know,
as stressful as things have been in our day job
world where no one knows what's happening to our beautiful
industry in the in the times where we're not on
set hours and things like this are scheduled early or late,
I'm like, oh, it's nap time. I'm gonna nap too. Well,
(18:29):
if that changes my life.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
The world is exhausting right now, you know. So it's gee,
what do you mean you.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
Mean twenty twenty five something going on?
Speaker 2 (18:39):
Yeah, I mean I just feel like the the endurance
race that we've even been on since COVID, you know,
is really you know, it's if you you know, Carpe Naptom,
you know, I just like, if you have the great
and beautiful privilege to rest, please do that for your
(19:01):
own health and well being. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
Like, if I get in a nap a month, I
feel like there should be a thing in my little
health app that I can. I want like a button
that gives me a gold coin like in Zelda Luxury. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
Yeah, because it's like two nap is to say that
you're worth shutting your system down and taking that time
to be that loaf of bread as it were.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
Yeah, well, I will never forget. Many years ago, my
therapist saying to me about a friend's recently born kid.
Would you ever let that baby go without sleep? Would
you ever let that baby go hungry? Would you ever?
You know? And it was this sort of series of questions,
and she said, why do you, as an adult woman,
(19:44):
think you deserve less care? And I went ooof because
we would We would do anything for our kids. We
would do anything for the kids in our village, our friends' kids,
like we show up for them in these ways. And yeah,
on the off month that I get a nap, I'm like,
look at me self care.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
Yeah, I mean, I I feel I think the main
thing is you feel guilt. I think as a parent.
You know, I'm a parent of children with learning differences,
and I'm divorced, I'm a single mom. You know. I
we're fifty to fifty with everything, you know, so it's
(20:24):
like there's this sense of I need to be doing
something also as an activist, as somebody who gives a
shit about the world, and how oppression just is just
reeking through every orifice of this, of every systemic system.
(20:44):
I don't space, place, place, countries, continents, world, I mean environment.
I mean so through that, I think, you know, do
you I feel personally? At least I can only speak
for myself that I can feel a sense of guilt
of how dare you rest? How dare you rest when
(21:07):
so many cannot? So that's where I come from, And
then I go, hey, guess what, you know, it is
my It is my responsibility to take care of myself
in order to take care of my children, in order
to be an activist, in order to be a human
(21:29):
who supports the values that I believe in. You know. Yeah,
so it's like you have to do it.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
You have to. And I think one of the things
that's so important about that is to take time for joy,
not just because you as a human deserve it, but
also because joy is fuel. How are you supposed to
keep fighting oppression? How are you supposed to advocate for
our equal protections under the law if you're just fried
(21:56):
all the time.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
I do think, Yeah, I think I think it is Ye.
I think I think joy is essential. I think that
I'm trying to show my children. I mean, that's the
other thing through the lens of being a parent and
being you know, able to show up for these young
(22:18):
minds and say, hey, look here's how I live my life.
I hope that I can't say to you, read more books.
If I don't read books, you know, it's like you
must be a mirror and a model and thank God
for them for that reason, you know, because I am
also saying I will do I will experience joy as well,
(22:39):
because part of the human condition, you know, sort of
feeds on and needs joy. It needs sadness, it needs mourning,
it needs activity. You know all these.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
Things when you think about all the things you've created,
you know, characters and stories, you know from the books
to the movies, and then you make this shift into
writing a children's book. To me, it reads like such
a love letter to your kid and to other people's kids.
Was it easier do you think to do because you've
(23:14):
written so much before, or did it almost feel like
it had more weight because it's for her?
Speaker 2 (23:20):
Well, it's interesting I felt writing all about brains was
very intuitive and easy for me because it really was
born from a place of listening. Nova was my daughter
has epilepsy, and I say she has epilepsy even though
(23:42):
she is seizure free currently, because she has a genetic mutation.
And so once you kind of have seizures, just say
you have epilepsy, just for the sake of honoring your
brain systems. Nova, because she has this genetic mutation, will
always carry it right, and how it has shown up
(24:04):
for her from a neurological standpoint of how her brain functions,
and how she interacts with the world and interacts with academics,
and how she enters with social emotional interactions. You know,
it's it's present in a multitude of ways that are
you know that you sure you could write down on paper,
(24:27):
but to live it. It feels so unique to her
and it's what makes her great and what makes her
a poet, you know, and all of those superpowers, those
uniqueness that those unique qualities as it were, when I
(24:48):
look at her and I experience her as a little
person who is coming up, the way she takes ownership
of it and and lives in it is what I
think really inspired the book because of how she speaks
about her neurological differences to her peers, and so it
was so easy to kind of like listen and then
(25:12):
digest and then yes. Even as a screenwriter myself and
how I sort of take on writing, which is through
the lens of different characters, I could use her as
that sort of beacon of little narrative.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
We'll be back in just a minute after a few
words from our favorite sponsors. Okay, so this makes me
really curious, loving words the way you do and grammar
the way you do. What were the things that Nova
started to say to you that made you realize, Oh,
(25:50):
that's a new phrase, that's a new way of thinking.
The way you experience your genetic makeup is something I
want to write down.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
She there was a moment where she had a seizure
and she apologized for it, and I think that it
caused a massive reframe. Need to reframe the narrative of
epilepsy in our lives and in our family. This is
not something we apologize for. Right. Seizures, we explained to
(26:23):
her are electrical misfires really in the brain. That it's
simply that you know all of our brains are comprised
of this mysterious electrical energy that is hard to map
out precisely. So anyway, with Nova, you know, in explaining
(26:44):
these electrical systems, she sort of digested that as, Oh,
there's like this sparkling magic that's happening. So it's like
this sparkle, right, this like like this sparkler that occurs
because that's electrically, it looks electrical or something. It has
sort of personality of something that is sort of bright
(27:08):
and speck of light, you know, and it feels special.
It feels special, and it sounds special. So then her
explaining it to Peers is what I think got me
really excited to think about, Oh, how could I explain this?
How could I show this experience like Nova's experience, like
(27:33):
her experiential sort of flavors of how she feels what
an epileptic epileptic convulsion feels like. That's interesting too, you know.
She would start to explain to me yo with this,
because I'd ask, I'm like, what does it feel like?
I'm just curious. I've never had one. Yeah, So here
you are a six year old, You're experiencing something I
(27:56):
have never experienced. And she's like okay, well, you know,
and she would explain that there was kind of a
tingling in her mouth, so sparkling in the mouth kind of,
and then that things go black and that she doesn't
then she says she's out, and then she comes back
(28:17):
and all of her body is tired. So it was like, oh, okay,
this is such such great information. Wow, And then we
started talking about it in this way of like this,
you don't have to apologize for this. This means you're
just operating on a level of you are like a shaman,
like you are when you have these sparkles, you gotta
(28:38):
let me know because that means you're sparkling more magic
than I am right now, and maybe everyone in the
room or maybe anyone on the block. So let me know, girl,
because when you're sparkling, like because I had to write
it down anyway in a log. Yeah, So when she
would feel them come on, because some seizures, just so
you know, are like not all the big fancy grand
mal ones where you fall down and it's a whole thing.
(29:01):
There's also myoclonic seizures, which were the little mini ones
that she would get, which were more stuttered in the mouth,
so you like that. Yes, So when you're trying to
experience say something and it it it trips up, it
looks like an electrical uh yeah, fl miss flip.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:21):
So she would have those And then that was really
interesting because I was like, oh, thank you so much
for letting me know that you had a mini you know,
she'd be like, I'm just like really smart today.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
I'm like, oh, oh, do you know?
Speaker 2 (29:33):
So it became that instead of sorry.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
But what an amazing thing that you, as a parent
were not only able to reframe it to get her
out of the feeling of needing to apologize for herself,
you know, because we all know the crazy research about
how much women say sorry all the time. So to
help stop that impulse, but also to take the fear
(29:58):
away for her, because you are you turning this into
something sparkly, letting her know she's doing something and you
want to know about it, and to take that what
I would imagine at first caused a lot of terror
and anxiety for your child, and to help her feel
powerful in her body instead like makes me want to sob.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
It's what the book is about. So it's like it
me too. I mean the second I saw her shift
her perception of seizures and report one to me while
she was in the other room, come running in and say,
I'm smart today, you know, like I'm fired on all cylinders.
(30:41):
You know. It's like, oh you have a mini all
right girl, like a shoot. You know. Was such a
great moment. And so I think that the book with
that same respect of our neurological differences that we all
imbue in some shade. And my own feeling is like
(31:03):
I said to Nova. I say to Nova all the time,
like everybody's walking around here, and everybody's got a thing,
you know what I mean. You don't see it, but
they've got it some shade of something. Of course, I'm dyslexic,
like not running around going on.
Speaker 1 (31:16):
As an adult, I got diagnosed with ADHD. Or He's like, wow, okay,
so does a lot of things really make more sense
for me? I wish I'd knowne this as a kid. Sure,
maybe I didn't have to white knuckle through the like
overachieving tendency of my neurospiciness mixed with like growing up
with an immigrant dad. Okay, but that that was so
(31:40):
special even for me as an adult reading the book
as nova opens up for our listeners at home to
her class. In this beautiful children's book, so many other
kids in the class begin to share their thing and
to read about her classmate sharing about her ADHD. I
(32:03):
was like, oh my god, I needed this book. It
made me feel so emo even in my adult body.
And what it really, I think beautifully reminds readers of,
is this thing you're saying that you remind your kid
in the world that everyone's got their own particular brain.
And I find it really refreshing in a time to
(32:27):
relate to our earlier conversation, which might sound sad, but
I think is actually really beautiful. In a time when
our exceptional leaps in our medical and psychological practices mean
that more and more people learn what their thing is
are advancements. Our ability to see people is actually being attacked,
(32:50):
and it's being scapegoaded so that people who want to
make a bunch of money selling you non approved vitamins
can convince you not to get the vaccine that you need.
It drives me crazy, you know, because people want to
talk about that, but they don't want to talk about
the fact they you know, they like to say, oh,
pharmacy pharma is a billion dollar a year industry, and
I'm like, yeah, the supplement industry is over four billion
(33:13):
dollars a year. So who do you think is grifting?
The doctors or the people who don't have to adhere
to medical standards. So it's like, for me, it hit home.
You know, you're not talking about politics in the book,
You're you're in a kid's classroom.
Speaker 2 (33:28):
Yeah, who we talk about meds. We talk about medication exactly.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
And what I loved is that without having to get
overtly political, what you're doing as a mom is celebrating
your own kid and everyone else's kids for whatever they
are and how lucky they are to know what they are.
Whether they have anxiety, or one kid is on the
autism spectrum, or your kid has epilepsy or another kid
(33:54):
has ADHD. They are being celebrated for the ways they
see their world, their friends, their classroom, their teacher, and
I just like it really makes me want to cry.
Speaker 2 (34:08):
Well, no, it's beautiful, Thank you. I appreciate that. I
feel like we are in a time where I think
what keeps me up at night is not understanding how
I mean the core of our humanity and what makes us.
Human is caring for other humans and being in community
(34:28):
with other bodies, regardless of their brains, their shapes, their colors.
It's like we're you know, I religions, and I feel
like anything short of ultimately you know I, anything short
of ultimate radical kindness and love is just like violent. Yeah,
(35:01):
you know. It's like I really look around and I'm
just like, you know, yes, my book has this generosity
of spirit as anything that I'm going to write in
my life will always have that because I think of,
(35:25):
you know, if I can impart anything, I mean, in
the lives of young minds, but also in parents as well.
I just feel exhausted with the idea that somehow it's
radical to be inclusive.
Speaker 1 (35:43):
Yeah. What strikes me constantly is this is the whole point,
the point of evolving as humans, of becoming a more
globally connected society, of having our most successful social media
app be for picture sharing so you can see where
(36:04):
and how other people live. The whole point is to
be nicer to each other. And people can sell this
really old world tribalism through fear, and I'm like, wouldn't
it be so much nicer for us all to not
be afraid and just I don't know, be able to
(36:24):
go to the doctor and breathe clean air. Like doesn't
that just sound better?
Speaker 2 (36:28):
Yeah? I mean I was just talking about this with
the friend of mine who's an activist, and it's like, I,
you know, the systems, you know, It's like, uh, we
want to burn the systems down. I'm like, the systems
are like a knot. It's like your hair. It's like
knotted hair. They're tiny, tiny not It's not like you
can sit down in an afternoon and kind of like
(36:49):
undo them, right, And there's thousands and millions of them,
these systems, you know. Yes, so we have to be
within the systems radically conscientious and active and and kind
(37:11):
and and unrelent you know, relentless with our radical compassion.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
Yeah, I think about it. You know. The difference, I
would say from becoming an activist in my twenties and
the version of that for me today is to use
your not analogy. It's not just that it's knotted like
your hair. It's your hair. If you burn it down,
you burn with it. And so the most radical kind
(37:41):
of care is to sit with people and help them
untake And I actually think that when you're younger and
less patient. The idea of burning a whole system down
sounds cool, but when you as you get older and
you actually learn to hold more things to be true
at the same time.
Speaker 2 (38:00):
The nuanced For sure, the nuance matters.
Speaker 1 (38:03):
And actually the way to be radical is to stay
in the fight for your whole life. Yes, I think
about activism.
Speaker 2 (38:09):
Using voice right, like coming back to voice.
Speaker 1 (38:12):
Yes, but I think about activism as the longest marriage
I'll ever be in. Right, you know, I am dedicated
to this place and how we leave it for our
kids first and foremost. And if you treat your activism
like your greatest love story, it's also going to be
ugly sometimes it's going to be it's going to require
patience and.
Speaker 2 (38:32):
Like dadding sometimes, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:34):
That's that's what I want, And I you know, someone
Some might say it's ironic for two divorced women to
be sitting here having this conversation, but I actually think
it's part of how I how I came to that
analogy because I went, oh, I get it. This, this
is the thing that I will actually be the most
patient with. I'm much more willing to wake up one
(38:57):
day and say, oh, I'm in the wrong thing and
move along for myself, but for us, I'm like, oh no,
I am married to this country. You can't get rid
of me. I mean, you are stuck with me forever.
Speaker 2 (39:10):
I'm married to I think. You know, it's interesting when
you talk about that, the activism. Well you say I'm
married to this country, right, and I'm like, I think
this planet. Maybe, yeah, maybe I'm married. I'm married to
the to the planet and to the you know, to
humanity right where it's like, I can't first of all,
(39:32):
I can't unsee what we've seen, right possible, And I
am in solidarity with you. I feel the same way.
I do think that, you know, I'm kind of thinking, like,
why why is it so ironic the two divorced women
talking about that. I actually think it makes all the
sense in the world, you know. I'm so grateful to
(39:58):
be in this space now at my age. I'm in
my forties, and I know who I am, and I
understand that that little activist was inside me my whole life,
you know, and showing up in different ways and feeling
like I wasn't invited to the party of active, I
wasn't even allowed to be participatory, and it didn't feel
(40:20):
like I I mean, my mom was definitely showing me
some forms of active activism. But I think that how
great that we get to write our own, our own
path and then use our voices to be betrothed to this,
(40:43):
you know, to the cause of all bodies, you know.
Speaker 1 (40:50):
And now for our sponsors. So much of your work, inquity,
you have focused in our industry for women and with
women in Film and everything that you do. How did
you find that kind of home for yourself.
Speaker 2 (41:12):
It's interesting. I've served on the board for nine years
and then I had to cycle out and Women in
Film and I had such a tremendous experience there, I
think realizing that obviously culture moves with culture, right, so
in order to in order to really move things from
(41:38):
you know, in a way that people alter how people
think or open the minds of how people think, we
have to utilize storytelling. And so it felt like Women
in Film was and is still an organization really worth
supporting because it's helping create culture. And so there are
(41:59):
these and also highlighting where they are massive inequities within
our industry, which is the industry that I love and
care about. I think as I've expanded and had to
cycle off of the board. I still support women in
film tremendously, and now I am I'm working with Women
(42:21):
for Women International, who I love, and I stay within
organizations that I think are empowering and building a positive
system of support for women in their communities where they
(42:45):
are marginalized, but also just without infrastructure. So I think
that's where my voice and life force energy lie. And
also I'm with you and looking around and seeing the
gross discrimination of our within our country and the pain
(43:09):
and oppression that has been here for since this country
was founded. That is just a loud and front and center.
Speaker 1 (43:19):
Is it kind of crazy to you that we've essentially
had one generation of virtual I'm not going to say
actual equity for men and women, but like closer than
ever before. You know, like my mom couldn't get a
credit card without a man's permission until nineteen seventy four, right,
so we're really the first generation. You know, Granted, we
know women get funded less, you know, our movies get made,
(43:40):
love like anywhere. Whatever. We know, we know all the stats,
but I'm like, god, we just started to get like
a little bit of freedom. We had one generation of
us who could get a credit card and file for
a no fault divorce, and now y'all want to roll
it back. Are you that scared of us?
Speaker 2 (43:57):
I mean, I mean even you know, there is such
flagrant misogyny and white supremacy in this country that is
baked into the bedrock of so many of our systems
(44:25):
that it is like, I think, if anything, it's most
recent that the awakening of us all realizing, certainly as
white bodies, to realize that this has been going on
from day one. It's like when you have the privilege
(44:45):
of not you know, people who say, oh, you know,
I'm not really political, and I'm like, well, that's because
the system is working for you.
Speaker 1 (44:55):
Yeah, Okay, you don't have to be.
Speaker 2 (44:57):
That's a privilege to not be political. So I think
understanding that and being thoughtful and not being overly self righteous,
you know, but the idea that you're just like, I'm
aware and I'm wanting to be a part of educating
myself and being supportive of of real and true equity.
Speaker 1 (45:22):
Yeah, and realizing that the scarcity mentality, yes, lie, And
when you feel like, oh god, if we achieve this,
will I lose?
Speaker 2 (45:33):
That's what they want you to feel Yeah, I mean,
and it's like, no, if we win, we all win. Yeah,
if if if some are not free, then we're not free.
Speaker 1 (45:44):
So yeah, because then it's just an illusion.
Speaker 2 (45:46):
Yeah, it's it's it's like, but you have to like really,
I mean certainly I think in our generation too, I
think that, like you said, there's this oh we got it,
we can we can vote, we can get.
Speaker 1 (46:01):
Look, we won all these rights and now they're set.
It's like they're not set. We got to hold on
to them.
Speaker 2 (46:06):
You gotta hold onto them. And then also be aware
that so many other marginalized groups are in a constant
state and have never still still not thriving. So it's like, god,
damn it. You know, it's like we have so much
work to do. But then as at least we have megaphones,
you know, And you know, I really try to even
(46:32):
in non megaphone ways, I try to like live my
values as I walk down the street and sit in
the subway and who who you know, like how I interact,
how I pick up the trash from the you know,
this old woman across the street, you know, like trying
to show and also with my children, I'm like, yeah,
(46:54):
this is who we are, okay, it's like this is
where you're from, Okay, totally.
Speaker 1 (46:59):
So yeah, it's little things. It's like it's funny that
you say, you know, you pick up the trash or
you do this thing, you set an example when no
one's watching. Also because it's who you are, you live
your values. And the other day, I was on a
couple of planes last week and I had a layover
in Denver Flags. Yeah, you know, sick layover was great,
(47:21):
and I went to the restroom in the airport as
one does, and you know, it's like midday. The whole
countertop in between every sink is wet, and I had
like a three hour layover, and I got extra paper
towels and just started like drying up the countertop and
I saw this woman at the other end of the
counter like kind of look at me, and I saw
(47:43):
her pause. I was doing the thing where I was
really watching out of my peripheral, which I think I've
gotten good at, because it's like on set, I need
to know when the person I'm not supposed to see
is coming, so I turned at the correct time for camera,
you know, to not get the shot. And so it's
so stupid, but I'm like, ooh, I have a really
wide per here, and I like see her and she
takes a beat and then she gets a couple of
(48:03):
paper towels and starts drying, and we literally met in
the middle of the counter and looked at each other
and just nodded and like went about our day. It was, oh,
girlhood is my It's like just my joy the countertops.
We were like, you know, we did it. We did
a nice thing, and nobody saw us, but I saw
you and you saw me, and this is cool.
Speaker 2 (48:25):
And it's like she's a huge one tree hill fanto.
Speaker 1 (48:28):
By the way, if she was, she played it so cool.
I have no idea, but like, it's just little things
are capable of having such a ripple effect and you
can pause and be generous in your space at any time.
Speaker 2 (48:42):
It's it's so true, and I feel like, look, not
every day. Some days you're going to be like I'm
pissy today.
Speaker 1 (48:49):
Some days you're the nightmare person at the airport, like
we try.
Speaker 2 (48:53):
But but for the majority of the time, yeah, I mean,
you know, people I say to my kids too, I'm
like ninety nine point nine percent of the people as
you walk down the street are good. Yeah they are.
I mean, I'm just telling you there's a you know,
zero point one percent okay that are like born bad.
I guess I don't know whatever that means, and it
(49:14):
means we'd be like, you know, they want to harm
or something. But otherwise, I mean, people are pretty good.
They're gonna look different than you. They might have differences,
like you got differences, and it's okay. I'm just telling
you you don't have to like fear the world. Yeah, okay,
because this is the problem we're growing up because I
(49:35):
have to. I have to manage myself as well. Where
it's like, you know, how do I not fear the world?
The world? You know, we have so much anxiety. We're
reading in the news and you're just like, there's a
thousand ways to die today, Yeah for everyone. Yeah, and
(49:56):
it's just like Jesus Christ and.
Speaker 1 (49:58):
You gotta combat it.
Speaker 2 (50:00):
But do you take a nap?
Speaker 1 (50:01):
Then once a month you get you.
Speaker 2 (50:03):
Take a month, you take well maybe once a week
if you can't month.
Speaker 1 (50:06):
I think it's really cool though, that you It sounds
to me like you are constantly able to claim the good,
not just for yourself, but because you're also modeling it
for your kids.
Speaker 2 (50:21):
Yeah, I think it's kids. But then it's also like, oh,
like you said, you guys were wiping down those counters,
and there's just something about that woman's gonna then walk
on to hurt. You felt better, right that you had
a comrade in that, and you I believe in society
and yeah, I'm like, see people are good. Yeah, so
you're having that feeling, she's having that feeling. Yeah, and
(50:43):
then she's gonna you know, that's gonna ripple, like you
said to the person she's sitting next to, you know,
in Denver or whatever. So the point is, I'm with you.
I think that when you feel helpless, it's like, yes,
you're gonna do all the thing. You're going to go
to the protest. You're gonna go you know, you're gonna
call your representative. You're going to you know, write a
(51:04):
check if you can. You're gonna buy a T shirt
and support of X, Y or Z, and then you're
gonna pick up that piece of trash. You're gonna wipe
down a counter, You're gonna smile, you're gonna have a
conver Like I had a conversation with a guy who
came onto the subway and just was immediately like wanted
to start talking about the subway cars and the models
of the subway cars. He clear he's a delivery guy,
(51:25):
but he boy, he had all the answers.
Speaker 1 (51:27):
Sounds like the little boy in your book.
Speaker 2 (51:29):
Yes, totally, Yeah, there was totally. And I was thinking,
you know, I'm always under the impression that like, since
I have some neurodiversity, you have some everybody in this
room has some nerd adversity. They're looking at us rabbits.
But the point is like the whole you know, this
man walks in clearly like he's got some stuff going on,
and I'm like, let's get into it. It's like I
(51:50):
was like, you're kidding me. This was born Okay, so
these were made in Japan. What parts were we to
j We just went into it, put down my book
and we just like had a great conversation, and you know,
the New Yorker and me is like, this is what
I fall in love with New York every time I'm
here for that reason, because too you can you can
(52:11):
you can like participate with the city, or you can
sit back.
Speaker 3 (52:15):
It's there for the taking. Well, you can engage or
watch totally. And I like that you can do whatever
you would ever given day. And I like that you
got the encyclopedic coverage. The subway cars, I.
Speaker 2 (52:27):
Really didn't realize. I was like, oh yeah, the ones
with the orange and the yellow seats. That's different making
model right, And it's like, oh yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (52:34):
Oh yeah, I had to really get Those are my
favorite the like seventies technicolor or something like cars are
my favorite ones.
Speaker 2 (52:40):
Those are usually yeah, those go deep.
Speaker 1 (52:42):
I love it. Okay, we have to take a subway
ride before you go home.
Speaker 2 (52:46):
Indeed, and I'm going to do it tonight awest for
this same.
Speaker 1 (52:51):
So tech tell the people. I know we're coming up
on time, because my poor producer is like, ladies, you're
not at lunch. Stop talking, but tell the people where
to find the book, where to find the audio book,
even though I know it's been a minute since it
came out, but it's my favorite, and about the new show,
(53:12):
and then I promise I'll let you go on the subway.
Speaker 2 (53:14):
So first, All About Brains is the children's book that
you can purchase on pretty much any bookseller right now,
also at Simon and Schuster Kids. But then, yeah, I
mean you could go into the Barnes and Nobles as
it were. You could go on a mega site which
I will not even mention, go to bookshop. Yeah, you
(53:36):
can go to Libro or whatever. But yeah, you can
go to a multitude of local small bookshops and.
Speaker 1 (53:46):
The Strand if you're in Manhattan one of the best. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (53:49):
Yeah, it's actually it's kind of it's everywhere and that,
and I highly recommend it. And the age range because
a lot of people ask me that it's anywhere from
like four years old to twelve basically, but obviously you
also enjoyed it. Yeah you're a full grown woman.
Speaker 1 (54:06):
Yeah, it made me cry, so that's cool. The age
range goes well past forty two.
Speaker 2 (54:10):
Everyone past forty two. So, and then Inside Voice with
How We Sound is an audiobook that I highly recommend
it with Pushkin. It's still available with Malcolm Gladwell's Pushkin,
but also on I believe, on Audible and anywhere you
can get your sort of audiobooks. So that's a fun listen,
(54:32):
lots of really exciting interviews and whatnot with some of
the most iconic voices. And then the show that I'm
doing is called The Chair Company with Tim Robinson, great
comedian that I adore, and I'm so jazzed to be
a part of this series. It comes out on HBO
in the fall.
Speaker 1 (54:53):
Can't wait. Yeah, I'm so excited. So we're caught up
on all of the work. And for my last question
for you, it can be a work thing, but it
might also be a personal thing. You've got a lot
kind of cooking at the moment. When you look at
the sort of landscape of life right now, what feels
like you're work in progress?
Speaker 2 (55:16):
My work in progress will be forever being a parent,
I think being an activist. Those two are in me,
whether I like it or not, on a cellular level,
on a daily from the second I wake up in
(55:37):
the morning, as I go to sleep, and I you know,
these are the those are the two tenants of my
work in progress as a person. I would say as
a woman, but I think just as a person, and
so I know they're both a privilege to you know,
(56:01):
the privilege as you spoke of, to evolve, but really
to evolve within these tenets of activism and mothering and
being what it is to be a present. And I'm
not going to say good mother, because I think that's unfair.
I think just to be a present mother with love,
(56:24):
you know, mm hmm. And I'll lets you know if
that changes at all.
Speaker 1 (56:28):
I think it's really beautiful. Thank you God.
Speaker 2 (56:32):
I got a stretch
Hey everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress. Hello
whip smarties. Today we are joined by one of my
favorite smart, creative, I mean brilliant women, who also happens
(00:23):
to be one of the coolest chicks that I know.
Today's guest is actress, writer and director Lake Bell, who
is starring in the upcoming series The Chair Company on HBO,
and who has just released a book inspired by her daughter.
The book is called All About Brains, a Book about people,
(00:44):
and it is a whimsical story that celebrates the ways
all of our different brains make us special in a
lighthearted and you'll hear me crying emotional exploration of neurodiversity.
The book was inspired by Lake's own daughter, Nova, and
we're going to talk about what it's like to be
a parent of a brilliant and different kid, what both
(01:07):
of our journeys with families look like, and how she
views her career as both a personal sense of expression
and as a real responsibility. Because with a platform comes privilege,
and Lake is so amazing at mobilizing her privilege for
others in really beautiful and inclusive ways. Let's dive in
(01:27):
with Lake Bell. I was reading so many articles about
your audiobook because it fascinates me. And also I feel
like I needed to go back in time a little bit.
(01:48):
And when you were talking about having a voice, like
you have a voice similar to I'll.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Say you yeah, you were on the list of unique voices.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Well just in terms of what it was like as
a young actor, particularly not sounding like all a little
angen news.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
Yeah. Yeah, I was like, oh my god, same girl.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
I feel it.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Yeah, well I think it. I think, you know, definitely,
it's more. It affects more than you realize. I think
it's like, sure, you can look a certain way, you
can imbue a certain amount of qualities that isuesque, but
then if your sound is different, there's like a juna
(02:34):
sequa that might or either get you the role or
not get you the role. Yeah, or have someone even
in an interview situation or a meeting a potential partner
for the first time, you know, whatever it is, you're like, oh,
we're either going to get along or not. I mean
for me, I you know, there's like a vocal chemistry.
I think, yeah, that happens that I can be highly
(02:58):
adverse to certain sounds. Also because my ears, I think
are I call. I say to my kids, I'm like,
I have wolf hearing, so you got to take it
down or not. It's the same sensitive sensitive hearing, yeah,
which means I'm like picking up on all kinds of
you know, vocal little quirks and qualities and things that
(03:19):
are you know, what's also what's not there, you know,
resonance or like being really tinny, you know, and like pushing.
I'm like, where's your breath? You know?
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Like yeah, like I science of sound and.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
Science of sound and the kind of emotional uh sort
of qualities that I think really either pull you to someone.
It's like a magnet, you know. You hear someone's sound
and you're like, Ooh, I'm attracted to that sound, or
I'm oh god, I'm just repelled by that sound, yeah,
(03:53):
which is like sorry, but you know, it just is
one of those things. I think it's almost like pheromones,
you know, totally.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
I love that well. And I think about particularly that
era we came up in as actors. We were in
the height of sort of sexy baby voice.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Yeah that like Paris hilt any sound Shurtney spears very sexy,
very young, very yeah, vile.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
And I remember I can't recall. I think it must
have been the maybe the second or third season that
we were doing One Tree Hill in Wilmington. You came
to do your show.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Oh yeah, that's right.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
We were there together, yes, and I remember hanging out
with you. I don't remember if it was the apartment
you were in or one of your castmates that used
to be Dennis Hoppers. It was yours, and I remember
just being like, this girl is so cool and I'm
so excited to be her friend. And then your show
moved on and then I was there, which was great,
(04:51):
but I was there alone mostly, and I was so
excited years later to see you again and be like,
hey girl, and it was like the rast ones, We're
still here.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
It is. It's it's interesting. And your sound has just
now that i'm thinking about your sound, your sound and
my sound both have evolved. Like if we took a
clip of us during those earlier years in Williamsburg, Williamton.
Speaker 3 (05:15):
What is it, Wilmington, Wilmington, I'm like, Williamsburg Williamsburg would
have been cool.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
No, in Wilmington, you know, I bet those sounds have
you know, you know, the just the color of life,
you know has occurred where more rasp has coming out,
you know, or you know, also we've arrived in this
space to speak in mics, So my my sound, I'm
aware of my sound being a little more juicy and
(05:41):
a little more liquid than it might be if I'm
kind of just you know, talking to my daughter. I'm like,
that's enough, you know, Like maybe I'm not supporting my
voice as much when I'm when I'm parenting in in chaos.
But you know, I think all of those things are
just so sexy to me, Like you turned me on
so much. I love the things that we don't notice,
(06:06):
you know. And so if we looked back on and
listen to our voices in those early episodes of those shows,
ipekay would sound different than they are right now.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
Oh my god, I would love Well. That sort of
leads me to the question I normally start with with guests,
because you know, you come in, you're promoting something, You've written, something,
you have a film coming out, whatever it is. You
have this gorgeous career and listeners know you as this person.
And I always am curious if you got to go
(06:38):
back in time and hang out with yourself when you
were a kid, maybe when you were your daughter's age,
would you see yourself in that little version of you?
And because it's you, I also want to know, was
that little girl obsessed with sound?
Speaker 2 (06:54):
Yes, so I have to say I was like unabashedly
precocious and super into dorked out nerdy stuff like that.
And I used to put on these at Nova's age,
for sure, maybe even younger, as a procrastination tool to
go to bed. I did not want to go to
a night person, and I was like, I gotta entertain
(07:16):
the adults. So it would be that thing of I
put on voices and you know, play Harry Bellefonte and
you know, throw on an outfit and do a dance number,
you know, musical number. But definitely interested in from an
early age being from New York, especially where you are
surrounded by, whether you like it or not, just sounds
(07:39):
of the city, but then also of a thousand different
cultures and a thousand languages, you know, and how people
spoke even within New York. You know, you had just
this beautiful cacophony of accents and dialects and languages. And
(08:00):
I think that was very integral to my interest in
not just culture but character, you know.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
Yeah, So Where do you think that bug came from?
When did you know you were studying people because you
wanted to play people?
Speaker 2 (08:16):
I think it was super early. I knew I wanted
to be an actor before I understood what it is
to be an actor. I just knew that I wanted
to be characters before I knew that word. I remember
in the eighties growing up in the city, there was
always movie trucks on the side of the road, and
it was usually you know, there would be like Woody
Allen movies being shot and whatnot, or I just remember
(08:39):
this particular one because I was on the Upper East Side,
so you know, he definitely would have lots of things
shot there anyway. So I would be pouting like this
in the taxi cab, say, and my mom would say,
what's wrong, what's up. I'd be like, I'm not even
in that movie, and she's like, you're six, like you know,
(09:03):
and I'm like, yeah, but I didn't even, like, like
there's just movies happening, and like everyone's just making fun
things and I'm not even invited, and you know, and
she'd be like, well, when you grow up, if that's
still what you want to do, you know, you get
to do that. So I just remember being like knowing
I wanted to do it. I want to look, that's
so fun that thing that they do, and I want
(09:23):
to do that. I want to write stories. I want
to be in stories.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
And so you did you have that? I think I
did weirdly, And it was an interesting thing because, you know,
it sort of occurred to me more recently somebody asked
me why I ride really hard for the crew at work,
like you know and not. It was partially a compliment
(09:49):
in the conversation and partially a call out of like,
you know, your job is to be focused on your job.
You don't always have to be making sure everyone else
has everything they need for their job, like that's kind
of their job. And so it was this neat interesting
thing because I was explaining, you know, when you are
in a cast, and certainly when you've worked your way
up to being in you know, the first four numbers,
(10:13):
let alone number one on the call sheet, like you
do have to really advocate for your people. And I
think it was a person pointing out to me maybe
having a slightly altered percentage of where my focus can
go just to ensure that I'm to your point, like
taking care of my instrument, doing the things that I
(10:35):
really need to do for me as well. And I
think it made me click into what it was like
to grow up going to work with my dad a lot,
because he was a photographer, you know, his whole career.
I always say he was, and then I'm like, he
didn't die, he just is retired. To my dad, it's scary,
(10:55):
but you know, I went to work with a crew dadah,
and so I got to see how talent behaved. I
got to see how visiting executives or creative directors behaved,
and I got to see how hard everybody else was
working and how their behavior affected a set though wasn't
often centered, and so I really I cherished that. And
(11:20):
so I think I think I learned how to be
a good crewe person and then eventual producer from working
with my dad. But I don't think I clued into
wanting to be a performer. I just knew art was fun.
And then I think there was a period similarly to you,
because I'm also a night owl where I never wanted
(11:44):
to go to bed, and so I would get caught
watching Dragnet like on Nick at Night or reruns of
mister ed like, I've truly been a grandfather for my
whole life. But then I realized if I could get
my parents to hang out with me, yeah, yeah, then
I could usually stay up a little later.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
Really, do you like the show? Whatever show you guys
want to watch?
Speaker 1 (12:04):
Yeah, And then I'd start doing like a, oh, well,
why don't you let me do the voices? Oh, like,
I'll give I'll give you a performances grandpa yeah and
all his friends in Teenac, you know, and like, then
then I could stay up a little later. And I
had not thought about it in that way until I
was reading your reflections on how you became obsessed with
(12:26):
voice acting, and I was like, oh my god, we
would have been cool a little bit kid friends.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
For sure, we would have stayed up till like two
in the morning.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
I still want to stay up till I know.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Well, kids, we'll be back in just a minute.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
But here's a word from our sponsors. Okay, so this
is my question for you. Completely. Yeah, they were taking
a left turn, but it's perfect thinking about you and
your two kids. Now that I love someone with two kids,
I I am having to become a morning person. Yeah,
(13:03):
because children are mourning people.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
They just want to get up.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
And I am I am a night person and I
mean even like diagnosed circadian rhythm by a sleep doctor. Oh,
you're one of the rare eight percent of people who
is a true night owl. How do you do it
as a mom? You don't have a choice, You just shift.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
Don't have a choice. Yeah, you don't have a choice
at all. And it's like I remember my ex husband,
who's awesome, Scott, was saying, you know, he knew I
was a night owl, and he's like, let's, you know,
drive for a kid. I'm like, yeah, totally, But what
if they're what if what if they're like early birds,
(13:47):
you know, like you? Because he's just like, he'll be
up at five. Oh no, And I am he knew
I was such a night owl. And he's like, I'll
take care of morning shift forever. Don't worry about it.
So you have a kid, and guess what your boobs
(14:07):
are on morning shift, whether you like it or not,
meaning you're attached to your boobs and therefore morning shift occurs,
and then you're just trained. And the truth is, when
you're pregnant, you are the reason. I feel like the
reason why the body keeps you up all hours of
the night and in the morning, and everything is because
(14:27):
the body is just training you to just you sorry,
You're going to have to be doing feedings every two hours.
This is part of the training system that we put
in place, and so the pregnant body just kind of
starts training you. And then by the time you're deposited
on the other side of this like epic life moment
(14:48):
of child birth, you are You're like, I guess I'm
a person who's up all night and also in the morning. Oh,
I know, And then you start to paper off a
little and right when you get comfy, it's like there's
sleep aggression, you know, And so you're just needed. And
the truth is just like you're chemically you're chemically connected
(15:11):
to the progeny and the little being that is wanting sustends,
and so your brain, you know, your body's just like
all right, I'll give you.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
I guess I'm doing.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
It's just like in the same in a similar way.
You know, it's different because it doesn't have the chemical component.
But I love what we do so much, right, Like
I it is so hugely a part of I feel
so grateful and privileged to be able to be a
writer and a director and create these stories as an
(15:45):
actor and oh wow, get to be a part of
this creative ecosystem, you know, family. And so when they
say you have to be on set at six a m.
To be inherent makeup, you're not psyched, but you totally
do it. Yep, you wake up. You gotta get up
at five because you're gonna have to get picked up
(16:05):
by the van IoT fifteen and then the locations X
amount of way. So you're just doing it. Yep, there's
no it's there's no ques. You just do it. And
I think the adjustment of anything in life as an adult,
you know, it's just that. But I hear you. Yeah,
it is when your like body wants to be asleep
(16:26):
at certain times, you know, you just gotta you just.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
Gotta do it. You just gotta Well that's the thing. Yeah,
it's been really interesting and I've nerded out a little
bit on the you know, the sleep prep where I'm like, okay,
this is when I got to turn my screens off. Yeah, yase,
I if I'm watching TV, it's not even it's not
ten nineteen. If it hits ten twenty one, it's like
a little gremlin who's jolly. Yeah in me is like
(16:52):
it's my time now. Yeah, yeah, And I just I
want to reorganize. I want to do laundry. I want
to watch television. I want to watch eight episodes.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Of television, get the whole season.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
It's just so crazy. So I'm kind of like, Okay,
i gotta wind down at nine thirty. I'm gonna put
on your blue light glasses. Two and four oh nah, yeah,
about to be three, okay, just tur and four in it.
Oh yeah. And and my partner's the sweetest human in
the world because she's like, you missed the like warm
loaf of bread, the sleepy baby stage, like you you
(17:23):
came into the this world, our world with two toddlers,
and they're just like up all the time and absolutely amped.
And they are my favorite little humans. Like they're so
funny and so charming and wonderful and wild. And my
godson is right in the age between the two of them,
so it's just like pack of babies everywhere. My two
(17:45):
best friends have have recent one year olds, and it's
just like that's.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
A lot, it's a lot.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
We're having the most fun.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
But yeah, I was like Oh I didn't. I didn't
get the like mostly napping phase. There's just it's just
you sign up for the sleeplessness, you do.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
Yeah, and then you realize, I can't believe that I'm
actually I'm getting through this like you do anyway. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
I also will say in some of the you know,
as stressful as things have been in our day job
world where no one knows what's happening to our beautiful
industry in the in the times where we're not on
set hours and things like this are scheduled early or late,
I'm like, oh, it's nap time. I'm gonna nap too. Well,
(18:29):
if that changes my life.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
The world is exhausting right now, you know. So it's gee,
what do you mean you.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
Mean twenty twenty five something going on?
Speaker 2 (18:39):
Yeah, I mean I just feel like the the endurance
race that we've even been on since COVID, you know,
is really you know, it's if you you know, Carpe Naptom,
you know, I just like, if you have the great
and beautiful privilege to rest, please do that for your
(19:01):
own health and well being. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
Like, if I get in a nap a month, I
feel like there should be a thing in my little
health app that I can. I want like a button
that gives me a gold coin like in Zelda Luxury. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
Yeah, because it's like two nap is to say that
you're worth shutting your system down and taking that time
to be that loaf of bread as it were.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
Yeah, well, I will never forget. Many years ago, my
therapist saying to me about a friend's recently born kid.
Would you ever let that baby go without sleep? Would
you ever let that baby go hungry? Would you ever?
You know? And it was this sort of series of questions,
and she said, why do you, as an adult woman,
(19:44):
think you deserve less care? And I went ooof because
we would We would do anything for our kids. We
would do anything for the kids in our village, our friends' kids,
like we show up for them in these ways. And yeah,
on the off month that I get a nap, I'm like,
look at me self care.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
Yeah, I mean, I I feel I think the main
thing is you feel guilt. I think as a parent.
You know, I'm a parent of children with learning differences,
and I'm divorced, I'm a single mom. You know. I
we're fifty to fifty with everything, you know, so it's
(20:24):
like there's this sense of I need to be doing
something also as an activist, as somebody who gives a
shit about the world, and how oppression just is just
reeking through every orifice of this, of every systemic system.
(20:44):
I don't space, place, place, countries, continents, world, I mean environment.
I mean so through that, I think, you know, do
you I feel personally? At least I can only speak
for myself that I can feel a sense of guilt
of how dare you rest? How dare you rest when
(21:07):
so many cannot? So that's where I come from, And
then I go, hey, guess what, you know, it is
my It is my responsibility to take care of myself
in order to take care of my children, in order
to be an activist, in order to be a human
(21:29):
who supports the values that I believe in. You know. Yeah,
so it's like you have to do it.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
You have to. And I think one of the things
that's so important about that is to take time for joy,
not just because you as a human deserve it, but
also because joy is fuel. How are you supposed to
keep fighting oppression? How are you supposed to advocate for
our equal protections under the law if you're just fried
(21:56):
all the time.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
I do think, Yeah, I think I think it is Ye.
I think I think joy is essential. I think that
I'm trying to show my children. I mean, that's the
other thing through the lens of being a parent and
being you know, able to show up for these young
(22:18):
minds and say, hey, look here's how I live my life.
I hope that I can't say to you, read more books.
If I don't read books, you know, it's like you
must be a mirror and a model and thank God
for them for that reason, you know, because I am
also saying I will do I will experience joy as well,
(22:39):
because part of the human condition, you know, sort of
feeds on and needs joy. It needs sadness, it needs mourning,
it needs activity. You know all these.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
Things when you think about all the things you've created,
you know, characters and stories, you know from the books
to the movies, and then you make this shift into
writing a children's book. To me, it reads like such
a love letter to your kid and to other people's kids.
Was it easier do you think to do because you've
(23:14):
written so much before, or did it almost feel like
it had more weight because it's for her?
Speaker 2 (23:20):
Well, it's interesting I felt writing all about brains was
very intuitive and easy for me because it really was
born from a place of listening. Nova was my daughter
has epilepsy, and I say she has epilepsy even though
(23:42):
she is seizure free currently, because she has a genetic mutation.
And so once you kind of have seizures, just say
you have epilepsy, just for the sake of honoring your
brain systems. Nova, because she has this genetic mutation, will
always carry it right, and how it has shown up
(24:04):
for her from a neurological standpoint of how her brain functions,
and how she interacts with the world and interacts with academics,
and how she enters with social emotional interactions. You know,
it's it's present in a multitude of ways that are
you know that you sure you could write down on paper,
(24:27):
but to live it. It feels so unique to her
and it's what makes her great and what makes her
a poet, you know, and all of those superpowers, those
uniqueness that those unique qualities as it were, when I
(24:48):
look at her and I experience her as a little
person who is coming up, the way she takes ownership
of it and and lives in it is what I
think really inspired the book because of how she speaks
about her neurological differences to her peers, and so it
was so easy to kind of like listen and then
(25:12):
digest and then yes. Even as a screenwriter myself and
how I sort of take on writing, which is through
the lens of different characters, I could use her as
that sort of beacon of little narrative.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
We'll be back in just a minute after a few
words from our favorite sponsors. Okay, so this makes me
really curious, loving words the way you do and grammar
the way you do. What were the things that Nova
started to say to you that made you realize, Oh,
(25:50):
that's a new phrase, that's a new way of thinking.
The way you experience your genetic makeup is something I
want to write down.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
She there was a moment where she had a seizure
and she apologized for it, and I think that it
caused a massive reframe. Need to reframe the narrative of
epilepsy in our lives and in our family. This is
not something we apologize for. Right. Seizures, we explained to
(26:23):
her are electrical misfires really in the brain. That it's
simply that you know all of our brains are comprised
of this mysterious electrical energy that is hard to map
out precisely. So anyway, with Nova, you know, in explaining
(26:44):
these electrical systems, she sort of digested that as, Oh,
there's like this sparkling magic that's happening. So it's like
this sparkle, right, this like like this sparkler that occurs
because that's electrically, it looks electrical or something. It has
sort of personality of something that is sort of bright
(27:08):
and speck of light, you know, and it feels special.
It feels special, and it sounds special. So then her
explaining it to Peers is what I think got me
really excited to think about, Oh, how could I explain this?
How could I show this experience like Nova's experience, like
(27:33):
her experiential sort of flavors of how she feels what
an epileptic epileptic convulsion feels like. That's interesting too, you know.
She would start to explain to me yo with this,
because I'd ask, I'm like, what does it feel like?
I'm just curious. I've never had one. Yeah, So here
you are a six year old, You're experiencing something I
(27:56):
have never experienced. And she's like okay, well, you know,
and she would explain that there was kind of a
tingling in her mouth, so sparkling in the mouth kind of,
and then that things go black and that she doesn't
then she says she's out, and then she comes back
(28:17):
and all of her body is tired. So it was like, oh, okay,
this is such such great information. Wow, And then we
started talking about it in this way of like this,
you don't have to apologize for this. This means you're
just operating on a level of you are like a shaman,
like you are when you have these sparkles, you gotta
(28:38):
let me know because that means you're sparkling more magic
than I am right now, and maybe everyone in the
room or maybe anyone on the block. So let me know, girl,
because when you're sparkling, like because I had to write
it down anyway in a log. Yeah, So when she
would feel them come on, because some seizures, just so
you know, are like not all the big fancy grand
mal ones where you fall down and it's a whole thing.
(29:01):
There's also myoclonic seizures, which were the little mini ones
that she would get, which were more stuttered in the mouth,
so you like that. Yes, So when you're trying to
experience say something and it it it trips up, it
looks like an electrical uh yeah, fl miss flip.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:21):
So she would have those And then that was really
interesting because I was like, oh, thank you so much
for letting me know that you had a mini you know,
she'd be like, I'm just like really smart today.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
I'm like, oh, oh, do you know?
Speaker 2 (29:33):
So it became that instead of sorry.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
But what an amazing thing that you, as a parent
were not only able to reframe it to get her
out of the feeling of needing to apologize for herself,
you know, because we all know the crazy research about
how much women say sorry all the time. So to
help stop that impulse, but also to take the fear
(29:58):
away for her, because you are you turning this into
something sparkly, letting her know she's doing something and you
want to know about it, and to take that what
I would imagine at first caused a lot of terror
and anxiety for your child, and to help her feel
powerful in her body instead like makes me want to sob.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
It's what the book is about. So it's like it
me too. I mean the second I saw her shift
her perception of seizures and report one to me while
she was in the other room, come running in and say,
I'm smart today, you know, like I'm fired on all cylinders.
(30:41):
You know. It's like, oh you have a mini all
right girl, like a shoot. You know. Was such a
great moment. And so I think that the book with
that same respect of our neurological differences that we all
imbue in some shade. And my own feeling is like
(31:03):
I said to Nova. I say to Nova all the time,
like everybody's walking around here, and everybody's got a thing,
you know what I mean. You don't see it, but
they've got it some shade of something. Of course, I'm dyslexic,
like not running around going on.
Speaker 1 (31:16):
As an adult, I got diagnosed with ADHD. Or He's like, wow, okay,
so does a lot of things really make more sense
for me? I wish I'd knowne this as a kid. Sure,
maybe I didn't have to white knuckle through the like
overachieving tendency of my neurospiciness mixed with like growing up
with an immigrant dad. Okay, but that that was so
(31:40):
special even for me as an adult reading the book
as nova opens up for our listeners at home to
her class. In this beautiful children's book, so many other
kids in the class begin to share their thing and
to read about her classmate sharing about her ADHD. I
(32:03):
was like, oh my god, I needed this book. It
made me feel so emo even in my adult body.
And what it really, I think beautifully reminds readers of,
is this thing you're saying that you remind your kid
in the world that everyone's got their own particular brain.
And I find it really refreshing in a time to
(32:27):
relate to our earlier conversation, which might sound sad, but
I think is actually really beautiful. In a time when
our exceptional leaps in our medical and psychological practices mean
that more and more people learn what their thing is
are advancements. Our ability to see people is actually being attacked,
(32:50):
and it's being scapegoaded so that people who want to
make a bunch of money selling you non approved vitamins
can convince you not to get the vaccine that you need.
It drives me crazy, you know, because people want to
talk about that, but they don't want to talk about
the fact they you know, they like to say, oh,
pharmacy pharma is a billion dollar a year industry, and
I'm like, yeah, the supplement industry is over four billion
(33:13):
dollars a year. So who do you think is grifting?
The doctors or the people who don't have to adhere
to medical standards. So it's like, for me, it hit home.
You know, you're not talking about politics in the book,
You're you're in a kid's classroom.
Speaker 2 (33:28):
Yeah, who we talk about meds. We talk about medication exactly.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
And what I loved is that without having to get
overtly political, what you're doing as a mom is celebrating
your own kid and everyone else's kids for whatever they
are and how lucky they are to know what they are.
Whether they have anxiety, or one kid is on the
autism spectrum, or your kid has epilepsy or another kid
(33:54):
has ADHD. They are being celebrated for the ways they
see their world, their friends, their classroom, their teacher, and
I just like it really makes me want to cry.
Speaker 2 (34:08):
Well, no, it's beautiful, Thank you. I appreciate that. I
feel like we are in a time where I think
what keeps me up at night is not understanding how
I mean the core of our humanity and what makes us.
Human is caring for other humans and being in community
(34:28):
with other bodies, regardless of their brains, their shapes, their colors.
It's like we're you know, I religions, and I feel
like anything short of ultimately you know I, anything short
of ultimate radical kindness and love is just like violent. Yeah,
(35:01):
you know. It's like I really look around and I'm
just like, you know, yes, my book has this generosity
of spirit as anything that I'm going to write in
my life will always have that because I think of,
(35:25):
you know, if I can impart anything, I mean, in
the lives of young minds, but also in parents as well.
I just feel exhausted with the idea that somehow it's
radical to be inclusive.
Speaker 1 (35:43):
Yeah. What strikes me constantly is this is the whole point,
the point of evolving as humans, of becoming a more
globally connected society, of having our most successful social media
app be for picture sharing so you can see where
(36:04):
and how other people live. The whole point is to
be nicer to each other. And people can sell this
really old world tribalism through fear, and I'm like, wouldn't
it be so much nicer for us all to not
be afraid and just I don't know, be able to
(36:24):
go to the doctor and breathe clean air. Like doesn't
that just sound better?
Speaker 2 (36:28):
Yeah? I mean I was just talking about this with
the friend of mine who's an activist, and it's like, I,
you know, the systems, you know, It's like, uh, we
want to burn the systems down. I'm like, the systems
are like a knot. It's like your hair. It's like
knotted hair. They're tiny, tiny not It's not like you
can sit down in an afternoon and kind of like
(36:49):
undo them, right, And there's thousands and millions of them,
these systems, you know. Yes, so we have to be
within the systems radically conscientious and active and and kind
(37:11):
and and unrelent you know, relentless with our radical compassion.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
Yeah, I think about it. You know. The difference, I
would say from becoming an activist in my twenties and
the version of that for me today is to use
your not analogy. It's not just that it's knotted like
your hair. It's your hair. If you burn it down,
you burn with it. And so the most radical kind
(37:41):
of care is to sit with people and help them
untake And I actually think that when you're younger and
less patient. The idea of burning a whole system down
sounds cool, but when you as you get older and
you actually learn to hold more things to be true
at the same time.
Speaker 2 (38:00):
The nuanced For sure, the nuance matters.
Speaker 1 (38:03):
And actually the way to be radical is to stay
in the fight for your whole life. Yes, I think
about activism.
Speaker 2 (38:09):
Using voice right, like coming back to voice.
Speaker 1 (38:12):
Yes, but I think about activism as the longest marriage
I'll ever be in. Right, you know, I am dedicated
to this place and how we leave it for our
kids first and foremost. And if you treat your activism
like your greatest love story, it's also going to be
ugly sometimes it's going to be it's going to require
patience and.
Speaker 2 (38:32):
Like dadding sometimes, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:34):
That's that's what I want, And I you know, someone
Some might say it's ironic for two divorced women to
be sitting here having this conversation, but I actually think
it's part of how I how I came to that
analogy because I went, oh, I get it. This, this
is the thing that I will actually be the most
patient with. I'm much more willing to wake up one
(38:57):
day and say, oh, I'm in the wrong thing and
move along for myself, but for us, I'm like, oh no,
I am married to this country. You can't get rid
of me. I mean, you are stuck with me forever.
Speaker 2 (39:10):
I'm married to I think. You know, it's interesting when
you talk about that, the activism. Well you say I'm
married to this country, right, and I'm like, I think
this planet. Maybe, yeah, maybe I'm married. I'm married to
the to the planet and to the you know, to
humanity right where it's like, I can't first of all,
(39:32):
I can't unsee what we've seen, right possible, And I
am in solidarity with you. I feel the same way.
I do think that, you know, I'm kind of thinking, like,
why why is it so ironic the two divorced women
talking about that. I actually think it makes all the
sense in the world, you know. I'm so grateful to
(39:58):
be in this space now at my age. I'm in
my forties, and I know who I am, and I
understand that that little activist was inside me my whole life,
you know, and showing up in different ways and feeling
like I wasn't invited to the party of active, I
wasn't even allowed to be participatory, and it didn't feel
(40:20):
like I I mean, my mom was definitely showing me
some forms of active activism. But I think that how
great that we get to write our own, our own
path and then use our voices to be betrothed to this,
(40:43):
you know, to the cause of all bodies, you know.
Speaker 1 (40:50):
And now for our sponsors. So much of your work, inquity,
you have focused in our industry for women and with
women in Film and everything that you do. How did
you find that kind of home for yourself.
Speaker 2 (41:12):
It's interesting. I've served on the board for nine years
and then I had to cycle out and Women in
Film and I had such a tremendous experience there, I
think realizing that obviously culture moves with culture, right, so
in order to in order to really move things from
(41:38):
you know, in a way that people alter how people
think or open the minds of how people think, we
have to utilize storytelling. And so it felt like Women
in Film was and is still an organization really worth
supporting because it's helping create culture. And so there are
(41:59):
these and also highlighting where they are massive inequities within
our industry, which is the industry that I love and
care about. I think as I've expanded and had to
cycle off of the board. I still support women in
film tremendously, and now I am I'm working with Women
(42:21):
for Women International, who I love, and I stay within
organizations that I think are empowering and building a positive
system of support for women in their communities where they
(42:45):
are marginalized, but also just without infrastructure. So I think
that's where my voice and life force energy lie. And
also I'm with you and looking around and seeing the
gross discrimination of our within our country and the pain
(43:09):
and oppression that has been here for since this country
was founded. That is just a loud and front and center.
Speaker 1 (43:19):
Is it kind of crazy to you that we've essentially
had one generation of virtual I'm not going to say
actual equity for men and women, but like closer than
ever before. You know, like my mom couldn't get a
credit card without a man's permission until nineteen seventy four, right,
so we're really the first generation. You know, Granted, we
know women get funded less, you know, our movies get made,
(43:40):
love like anywhere. Whatever. We know, we know all the stats,
but I'm like, god, we just started to get like
a little bit of freedom. We had one generation of
us who could get a credit card and file for
a no fault divorce, and now y'all want to roll
it back. Are you that scared of us?
Speaker 2 (43:57):
I mean, I mean even you know, there is such
flagrant misogyny and white supremacy in this country that is
baked into the bedrock of so many of our systems
(44:25):
that it is like, I think, if anything, it's most
recent that the awakening of us all realizing, certainly as
white bodies, to realize that this has been going on
from day one. It's like when you have the privilege
(44:45):
of not you know, people who say, oh, you know,
I'm not really political, and I'm like, well, that's because
the system is working for you.
Speaker 1 (44:55):
Yeah, Okay, you don't have to be.
Speaker 2 (44:57):
That's a privilege to not be political. So I think
understanding that and being thoughtful and not being overly self righteous,
you know, but the idea that you're just like, I'm
aware and I'm wanting to be a part of educating
myself and being supportive of of real and true equity.
Speaker 1 (45:22):
Yeah, and realizing that the scarcity mentality, yes, lie, And
when you feel like, oh god, if we achieve this,
will I lose?
Speaker 2 (45:33):
That's what they want you to feel Yeah, I mean,
and it's like, no, if we win, we all win. Yeah,
if if if some are not free, then we're not free.
Speaker 1 (45:44):
So yeah, because then it's just an illusion.
Speaker 2 (45:46):
Yeah, it's it's it's like, but you have to like really,
I mean certainly I think in our generation too, I
think that, like you said, there's this oh we got it,
we can we can vote, we can get.
Speaker 1 (46:01):
Look, we won all these rights and now they're set.
It's like they're not set. We got to hold on
to them.
Speaker 2 (46:06):
You gotta hold onto them. And then also be aware
that so many other marginalized groups are in a constant
state and have never still still not thriving. So it's like, god,
damn it. You know, it's like we have so much
work to do. But then as at least we have megaphones,
you know, And you know, I really try to even
(46:32):
in non megaphone ways, I try to like live my
values as I walk down the street and sit in
the subway and who who you know, like how I interact,
how I pick up the trash from the you know,
this old woman across the street, you know, like trying
to show and also with my children, I'm like, yeah,
(46:54):
this is who we are, okay, it's like this is
where you're from, Okay, totally.
Speaker 1 (46:59):
So yeah, it's little things. It's like it's funny that
you say, you know, you pick up the trash or
you do this thing, you set an example when no
one's watching. Also because it's who you are, you live
your values. And the other day, I was on a
couple of planes last week and I had a layover
in Denver Flags. Yeah, you know, sick layover was great,
(47:21):
and I went to the restroom in the airport as
one does, and you know, it's like midday. The whole
countertop in between every sink is wet, and I had
like a three hour layover, and I got extra paper
towels and just started like drying up the countertop and
I saw this woman at the other end of the
counter like kind of look at me, and I saw
(47:43):
her pause. I was doing the thing where I was
really watching out of my peripheral, which I think I've
gotten good at, because it's like on set, I need
to know when the person I'm not supposed to see
is coming, so I turned at the correct time for camera,
you know, to not get the shot. And so it's
so stupid, but I'm like, ooh, I have a really
wide per here, and I like see her and she
takes a beat and then she gets a couple of
(48:03):
paper towels and starts drying, and we literally met in
the middle of the counter and looked at each other
and just nodded and like went about our day. It was, oh,
girlhood is my It's like just my joy the countertops.
We were like, you know, we did it. We did
a nice thing, and nobody saw us, but I saw
you and you saw me, and this is cool.
Speaker 2 (48:25):
And it's like she's a huge one tree hill fanto.
Speaker 1 (48:28):
By the way, if she was, she played it so cool.
I have no idea, but like, it's just little things
are capable of having such a ripple effect and you
can pause and be generous in your space at any time.
Speaker 2 (48:42):
It's it's so true, and I feel like, look, not
every day. Some days you're going to be like I'm
pissy today.
Speaker 1 (48:49):
Some days you're the nightmare person at the airport, like
we try.
Speaker 2 (48:53):
But but for the majority of the time, yeah, I mean,
you know, people I say to my kids too, I'm
like ninety nine point nine percent of the people as
you walk down the street are good. Yeah they are.
I mean, I'm just telling you there's a you know,
zero point one percent okay that are like born bad.
I guess I don't know whatever that means, and it
(49:14):
means we'd be like, you know, they want to harm
or something. But otherwise, I mean, people are pretty good.
They're gonna look different than you. They might have differences,
like you got differences, and it's okay. I'm just telling
you you don't have to like fear the world. Yeah, okay,
because this is the problem we're growing up because I
(49:35):
have to. I have to manage myself as well. Where
it's like, you know, how do I not fear the world?
The world? You know, we have so much anxiety. We're
reading in the news and you're just like, there's a
thousand ways to die today, Yeah for everyone. Yeah, and
(49:56):
it's just like Jesus Christ and.
Speaker 1 (49:58):
You gotta combat it.
Speaker 2 (50:00):
But do you take a nap?
Speaker 1 (50:01):
Then once a month you get you.
Speaker 2 (50:03):
Take a month, you take well maybe once a week
if you can't month.
Speaker 1 (50:06):
I think it's really cool though, that you It sounds
to me like you are constantly able to claim the good,
not just for yourself, but because you're also modeling it
for your kids.
Speaker 2 (50:21):
Yeah, I think it's kids. But then it's also like, oh,
like you said, you guys were wiping down those counters,
and there's just something about that woman's gonna then walk
on to hurt. You felt better, right that you had
a comrade in that, and you I believe in society
and yeah, I'm like, see people are good. Yeah, so
you're having that feeling, she's having that feeling. Yeah, and
(50:43):
then she's gonna you know, that's gonna ripple, like you
said to the person she's sitting next to, you know,
in Denver or whatever. So the point is, I'm with you.
I think that when you feel helpless, it's like, yes,
you're gonna do all the thing. You're going to go
to the protest. You're gonna go you know, you're gonna
call your representative. You're going to you know, write a
(51:04):
check if you can. You're gonna buy a T shirt
and support of X, Y or Z, and then you're
gonna pick up that piece of trash. You're gonna wipe
down a counter, You're gonna smile, you're gonna have a
conver Like I had a conversation with a guy who
came onto the subway and just was immediately like wanted
to start talking about the subway cars and the models
of the subway cars. He clear he's a delivery guy,
(51:25):
but he boy, he had all the answers.
Speaker 1 (51:27):
Sounds like the little boy in your book.
Speaker 2 (51:29):
Yes, totally, Yeah, there was totally. And I was thinking,
you know, I'm always under the impression that like, since
I have some neurodiversity, you have some everybody in this
room has some nerd adversity. They're looking at us rabbits.
But the point is like the whole you know, this
man walks in clearly like he's got some stuff going on,
and I'm like, let's get into it. It's like I
(51:50):
was like, you're kidding me. This was born Okay, so
these were made in Japan. What parts were we to
j We just went into it, put down my book
and we just like had a great conversation, and you know,
the New Yorker and me is like, this is what
I fall in love with New York every time I'm
here for that reason, because too you can you can
(52:11):
you can like participate with the city, or you can
sit back.
Speaker 3 (52:15):
It's there for the taking. Well, you can engage or
watch totally. And I like that you can do whatever
you would ever given day. And I like that you
got the encyclopedic coverage. The subway cars, I.
Speaker 2 (52:27):
Really didn't realize. I was like, oh yeah, the ones
with the orange and the yellow seats. That's different making
model right, And it's like, oh yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (52:34):
Oh yeah, I had to really get Those are my
favorite the like seventies technicolor or something like cars are
my favorite ones.
Speaker 2 (52:40):
Those are usually yeah, those go deep.
Speaker 1 (52:42):
I love it. Okay, we have to take a subway
ride before you go home.
Speaker 2 (52:46):
Indeed, and I'm going to do it tonight awest for
this same.
Speaker 1 (52:51):
So tech tell the people. I know we're coming up
on time, because my poor producer is like, ladies, you're
not at lunch. Stop talking, but tell the people where
to find the book, where to find the audio book,
even though I know it's been a minute since it
came out, but it's my favorite, and about the new show,
(53:12):
and then I promise I'll let you go on the subway.
Speaker 2 (53:14):
So first, All About Brains is the children's book that
you can purchase on pretty much any bookseller right now,
also at Simon and Schuster Kids. But then, yeah, I
mean you could go into the Barnes and Nobles as
it were. You could go on a mega site which
I will not even mention, go to bookshop. Yeah, you
(53:36):
can go to Libro or whatever. But yeah, you can
go to a multitude of local small bookshops and.
Speaker 1 (53:46):
The Strand if you're in Manhattan one of the best. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (53:49):
Yeah, it's actually it's kind of it's everywhere and that,
and I highly recommend it. And the age range because
a lot of people ask me that it's anywhere from
like four years old to twelve basically, but obviously you
also enjoyed it. Yeah you're a full grown woman.
Speaker 1 (54:06):
Yeah, it made me cry, so that's cool. The age
range goes well past forty two.
Speaker 2 (54:10):
Everyone past forty two. So, and then Inside Voice with
How We Sound is an audiobook that I highly recommend
it with Pushkin. It's still available with Malcolm Gladwell's Pushkin,
but also on I believe, on Audible and anywhere you
can get your sort of audiobooks. So that's a fun listen,
(54:32):
lots of really exciting interviews and whatnot with some of
the most iconic voices. And then the show that I'm
doing is called The Chair Company with Tim Robinson, great
comedian that I adore, and I'm so jazzed to be
a part of this series. It comes out on HBO
in the fall.
Speaker 1 (54:53):
Can't wait. Yeah, I'm so excited. So we're caught up
on all of the work. And for my last question
for you, it can be a work thing, but it
might also be a personal thing. You've got a lot
kind of cooking at the moment. When you look at
the sort of landscape of life right now, what feels
like you're work in progress?
Speaker 2 (55:16):
My work in progress will be forever being a parent,
I think being an activist. Those two are in me,
whether I like it or not, on a cellular level,
on a daily from the second I wake up in
(55:37):
the morning, as I go to sleep, and I you know,
these are the those are the two tenants of my
work in progress as a person. I would say as
a woman, but I think just as a person, and
so I know they're both a privilege to you know,
(56:01):
the privilege as you spoke of, to evolve, but really
to evolve within these tenets of activism and mothering and
being what it is to be a present. And I'm
not going to say good mother, because I think that's unfair.
I think just to be a present mother with love,
(56:24):
you know, mm hmm. And I'll lets you know if
that changes at all.
Speaker 1 (56:28):
I think it's really beautiful. Thank you God.
Speaker 2 (56:32):
I got a stretch
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