April 7, 2025 • 34 mins
FLOTUS, wife, mother, author, attorney, advocate, television producer and host of the podcast IMO…Michelle Obama is here!
Listen to Michelle's podcast, IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson, here.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, everyone, It's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress. Hello whipsmarties, friends,
dear ones. I am beside myself. One of my favorite
(00:22):
human beings in the world is on the podcast today
to talk about life, love, personal evolution, becoming, curiosity, motherhood, martinis,
what reality TV she watches, and what the next phase
of life looks like. Today we are joined by my
(00:44):
forever floatis Michelle Obama. That's such an insane thing to
be saying. You know her as the forty fourth first
Lady of the United States of America. She is an
incredible advocate for women and girls education, democracy. She was
raised on the South side of Chicago, graduated from Princeton
(01:07):
University and Harvard Law School. Is married to none other
than our favorite President, Barack Obama, and is basically the
coolest mom any of us. Notes from her nonprofit work,
her advocacy for girls around the world, her work to
eradicate poverty. Her nonprofit and philanthropic work is something to behold.
(01:28):
Whether she has advocated for poverty awareness, encouraged and helped
to change the rules around girls' education, advocated for better
nutrition policies and physical activity and healthy eating in our country,
She has written three books, including her New York Times
best selling memoir Becoming and The Light We Carry, and
(01:48):
as if that weren't enough, runs an incredible production company
at Netflix, making some of our favorite TV shows, including
one of mine, The Later Daters, and Now when all
her free time, she is starting a podcast with her brother,
Imo In My Opinion is a gathering of Michelle Obama
(02:09):
and her big brother, Craig Robinson, as they bring their
unique experiences and candid perspectives to a range of listeners'
personal dilemmas, from the everyday to the existential, and every
week when they're answering your questions. They're also joined by
special guests to tackle practical advice, relatable anecdotes, and plenty
(02:31):
of laughs, from dating to relationships, parenting, and financial planning.
Imo sees our iconic First Lady at her most relaxed
and honest, and take it from me, this podcast will
leave you laughing, reflecting, and feeling more prepared to tackle
life's challenges. I can't wait to talk to her about
(02:53):
what inspired her to do this, why she's still giving
us so much of her incredible time, and what her
dreams are for what comes next. Let's dig in with
Michelle Obama. Hello, I am so just absolutely thrilled to
(03:19):
see you today, Sophia.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
I'm beyond thrilled to be with you. Haven't seen you
in person in a while, but I've been watching you
and I'm so proud of the work that you're doing
out there in the world, and I'm just delighted to
be able to sit down and chat with.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
You likewise, and that means the world and I will
always give people their flowers. A lot of people ask
me at this stage, you know, it's crazy to think
I signed up for my first presidential with you and
President Obama almost twenty years ago, and people will say, well,
where'd you get so into activism? Why do you care
(03:55):
so much about politics? And I'm like, I had the
best mentors in the game.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
What are you talking about? But You're but but you know,
as we see now, not everybody you know feels the
compelled to to get involved in the at the level
that you did. And that's not just because of us
the campaign. That that's because of who you are. That
you are putting your ideas, your thoughts, your passions, your
(04:23):
disappointments into action, which is what we say that that's
what makes a democracy. You can't sit on the sidelines,
even if you don't if you're not thrilled with every
choice you have on the ballot, and you you walk
the walk, always, always have.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Oh my goodness, I can't tell you how much it
means to me to hear that from you. I I
was planning on beginning with a question not having to
do with politics, but it's impossible not to ask you
about a little bit, and I kind of feel like,
let me ask you now. We'll get it out of
the way and then we can just hang. When you
talk about what a democracy means to you, it really
(05:07):
is soothing, not just for the years, but for the soul.
It's such a reminder that we can both advance a
nation because we care. That it requires telling the truth
and that it might not always be pretty, but if
we do the whole thing, you know, if we encompass
(05:28):
all of what it takes, it will be beautiful. And
you are a voice of reason for both the truth
and the beauty. And so many people seem scared to
talk about what's true, seems scared to acknowledge that our
diversity makes us better, seems scared to fight, they're disheartened,
(05:50):
and they're looking for hope. And the last thing I
want to do is ask another powerful black woman why
the rest of the world should be hopeful because you're
like we told you, but you are such an icon
to so many of us, and in this moment, is
there something you say, not necessarily as one of the
you know, former leaders of the free world, but just
(06:11):
as as a mom and a friend that you want
to say to the people you care about when they
feel afraid.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
You know, I just want to remind people, first of all,
fear is real, and it's rational, rational, and it's it's reasonable. Look,
too many people in this country, I don't care what
their race, their political party, they're struggling these it's it's
it's hard to get ahead in this world these days.
(06:42):
Too much, too many people have too much, you know,
too few people have too much. Too many people don't
have enough. And that is the basis of a lot
of fear. You know, when when people can't, you know,
they can't build a life that is reasonable with all
the hard work that they put in. People are struggling
(07:05):
to get ahead. They are working too many jobs and
still not able to get ahead. And that that just
predisposes people to be afraid. So I think first we
have to acknowledge that we do need to create some
balance economically, that if we don't find a way to
(07:28):
really invest in the middle class, all of it right
as we did when my parents were growing up.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
I mean, my.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
Father was a blue collar worker. He worked for the city.
And let me stop there about how important city government
workers are, federal government workers. Those are the jobs, those
are the roles in our society that built America in
so many ways. And on that single salary, my father
could pay his bills, my mother could stay at home.
(07:59):
He put two of us through college, and he had
a little bit of savings and a pension. Right, that
reality doesn't exist for enough people anymore. And when you
don't have that, you are afraid, and you do look
around for someone to blame. And that's where leadership comes in,
(08:20):
because leadership can either lead buy fear. They can either
fuel that fear and explain it away by saying, be
afraid of other people, people who aren't like you, somebody
else is to blame for this, Or you have leaders
who leave lead with hope and remind us that we
swim and sink together, and that we have to do
(08:42):
our part to make sure that our neighbors have enough
so that they feel like they have a stake in
this democracy. That's why I think hope is important, you know,
because it does control how we feel, and we cannot
underestimate the role that negative, negative language does to our
(09:05):
psyche and it makes us tired, and it makes us
want to give up, and it taps into the worst
of us. So I always say we owe it to
the next generation to stay hopeful. We have to watch
our language. We may say what we how we feel
in the privacy of our own homes, but those of
(09:26):
us with public platforms, I think we have a responsibility
to keep moving us towards the light and encouraging everyone
to stay educated, focused and engaged in this democracy. So,
I mean, you know, there's no easy way to talk
(09:46):
about it, but I think we first have to acknowledge
that a lot of people don't feel like they have
a fair shake in this country, and when they don't,
they're easy pickings, you know, And it's easy for us
to turn on one another when so many of us
are struggling.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
Do you think that part of that is because the
power that we're up against is so hard to kind
of quantify for the average person, And I say that
including myself. You know the idea that in the last
Trump presidency, twenty five percent of the entire United States
(10:26):
debt was created because we'd rather give a trillion dollar
tax cut to like sixty billionaires instead of just tax
folks that allowed for the system that your dad and
mom could flourish. And when you were a kid, it's
so hard to fathom that what those numbers mean that
(10:46):
it can be easier to think, well, there must be
waste in the government, and why do we have so
many federal employees. And now now that the federal employees
are getting cut and the cancer research is getting cut
and all these people are getting fired, they're like, wait.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Wait, wait, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
It almost seems to me like the reality that I
think the leadership that you and your husband displayed, the
leadership that so many of our great elders in the
progressive parties have displayed that have tried to teach us
that this doesn't work unless we acknowledge that it's a
community project. It feels like the need for communities finally
(11:22):
hitting people.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
Yeah, I hope so I hope that we understand, as
I said before, that we all sink or swim together.
Is it's disappointing that we have to go through the
fire in this way, but sometimes, you know, I mean,
these issues are complicated, and we also have to remember
(11:47):
we're dealing in different times now where people are very distracted,
they're on their phones, they are tiktoking and thirty character writing,
and know, we're dealing with communication that is totally new,
and it's very hard to describe and explain very complicated
(12:08):
issues in thirty two characters or less, right, And so
I think it's difficult because people want their information in
sound bites. You know, we also have social media that
feeds people what they want, not necessarily the truth or
(12:30):
what they need to hear. So again, not only are
people struggling, but they're being confused. We don't have one
clear source for truth. We don't have one clear source
where we all sit around and gather the same kind
of news and we hear the same kind of facts, right,
And we've never experienced that in any time in our
(12:53):
history as a nation. Because this technology that we're dealing with,
we haven't quite figured it out yet. And just remember Sophia.
When we entered the White House, we came in using blackberries. Right.
There was no such thing as social media, right, we
were learning about it. I mean there was meet Up
(13:15):
if you remember that, that was a big organizing tool
of the Obama campaign. There was no Zoom, there was
no Insta, there was no you know, my kids. I
was barely learning how to parent them with these new tools. Right.
So we're also dealing with a new kind of information
(13:36):
challenge and we haven't figured it out. I don't think
either party has figured it out. Politically, I think people
don't know who to trust. We don't get the same
kinds of information, and therefore it is very hard to
then explain what tariffs are, and you know, what the
deficit is, and what certain spending cuts is and are,
(13:59):
and what how the federal government actually does serve you. You know,
there there are books out there, but people aren't reading books.
You know. The Fifth Risk that talks about the role
that the government plays and how much we depend on
it for our weather and FEMA and you know, and
I could go on and on and on, but you
(14:21):
know the government doesn't have a pr campaign, right, right,
I mean they don't have the resources of the technology
technology giants to promote what government does. So it's very
easy for people to say, yeah, this is the problem.
You know, it exploded. What does the VA actually do?
You know, Well, let's just WoT. Yeah, of the VIA
(14:43):
does a lot. But if you're not getting that fit
to you twenty four to seven, then the average American
probably fully doesn't understand it.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
We'll be back in just a minute, but here's a
word from our sponsors speaking of social media. So a
great meme this week that was like talking about how
this sort of economic disaster that's done on purpose can
only happen every hundred years because everybody who made it
happen the last time has to be dead.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
Ye try to happen again. I saw, and I was like, that's.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
Part of it, because we lose sight of how it
actually works. But something that feels important to say, including
the book that you just referenced, which we will put
in our show notes, because we do say the audience
of this this podcast is whip smart. They like to
learn things. Black women show up for democracy in record numbers,
(15:39):
and we would be remiss not to say that as
confusing as these silos can be, as toxic as these
algorithms are, as much as this is an information kind
of warfare. Now with social media, you still see black
women show up at ninety two percent rates and vote
for progress. And so what I would like to suggest
(16:04):
to the folks listening to this show is not only
to follow our esteemed guest, but to tailor your algorithm.
Follow women like Brittany Pacnett Cunningham, follow social justice leaders
in your communities. Tailor your algorithm to begin to expose
(16:25):
you to the people who stand up for what America
is supposed to be at her best, because you can
change your algorithm. And that would be my first tip
for the folks at home to do that.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
And I want to add that we need to get
off our phones too and make sure that our real
lives are filled with diverse voices and experiences. We cannot
rely on somebody else telling us who our neighbors are.
It is our responsibility to step outside of our comfort
(16:59):
zone and meet some people who think differently, who look differently.
You know, I always say this if you're sitting around
a table, or if you're at a table of leadership
and everybody looks like you, and everybody agrees with you
something is wrong. That is at the core of why
diversity is important, because we get to meet each other
(17:20):
and share ideas and have real intellectual conversations. This is
why your podcast is important. It's one of the reasons
why I'm starting IMO. I mean IMO in my opinion
are My new podcast with my brother is not a
political podcast, because I think right now people shut their
(17:44):
ears off to politics. But we do need to be
in real conversations with each other, you know. We have
to be having these kind of serious conversations but having
some fun and learning how we think and and engaging
face to face with people. So I want your listeners
to say that there is no substitute for really knowing
(18:07):
your neighbor, for having a conversation with the person on
the train next to you, putting down your phone while
you're standing in line at the checkout counter, maybe looking
over at the doctor's office and saying hi to the
person sitting next to you, especially if they don't look
like you. We have to be mindful, vigilant and purposeful
(18:32):
about creating diversity in our lives because social technology is
pushing us in the opposite direction.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
Yeah, you know, I love that you mentioned the podcast
because this is exactly where I wanted to go. As
you know, sitting in your home studio in front of
a micro is tracking the time, and I'm like, we've
already spent twenty minutes on democracy, and I want to
ask the questions.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
Because I'd be remiss not too.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
I really just want to hang out with you and
like have a kiky And this that's what made me
so excited when I read the announcement and I saw
what you and your brother are doing, because you are
just gathering people for a little bit of a of
a respite and a laugh and maybe some learning. And
to be clear, like, you don't owe us more. You
(19:19):
don't need to do this podcast. So why didn't you
decide that this was the thing you wanted to do,
this was the way you wanted to do it.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
What is what? The honest answer is, I don't know
what was right. But the truth is, I, you know,
I feel like I I want to offer something in
these times. I you know why, I don't owe anybody
(19:47):
anything When you have the opportunity to have a platform
and to share stories and to you know, engage. For
me personally, it's a little selfish because I love people.
I love engaging with the American public, you know, I
really I am curious about what they are struggling with
(20:08):
and how they're talking about things, and if I would
be the kind of person who would be talking to
you on the grocery line, if I was allowed to
go into a grocery store like a normal person without
secret service, right. I mean, my life is as it
stands now, is not the usual life I'm used to living.
(20:29):
I'm not connecting with people in the way that I
like to, you know, So the podcast vehicle allows for that.
It allows me with my brother outside of my husband,
the person that I love most, who knows me best.
So it's also kind of a cool thing for me
to be working on a project with my big brother.
(20:51):
We have never worked together in a way. We've never
done any work project together. So I just like the
fact that once a week I get to be in
conversation with our listeners. I get to hear what's going
on in their lives. We get to pull in some friends,
(21:12):
some celebrities, some experts. I get to learn, continue to
learn and grow, and we're not talking about you know,
I don't have to be right about everything because we're
you know, I'm not coming in as the expert. It's
just our opinion, you know, and we all have them,
and so I think it's a really fun and exciting
(21:37):
way for me to continue to stay engaged with the
American people and the people who have come to know
and trust and look for me. I don't want anyone
to feel like, while I'm never going to go into politics,
I care about what happens in this country, and I
care about how people are managing through it. And if
(22:01):
I can offer a little bit of light once a
week to somebody, you know, why not.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
Yeah, So a little bit of joy.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
I hope it's a little bit of joy and a
little bit of support as well.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
And now a word from our sponsors that I really
enjoy and I think you will too. I love hearing
you talk about the why, because every once in a
while someone will ask me why I do this, and
I'll lean he in, go Kamere. You realize I made
it my job to ask really cool people a bunch
(22:39):
of questions and hanging out for an hour. It's like
it feels like I won the career lottery. You talking
about your relationship with Craig is a segue into what
is normally my first question for people, but I feel
like people really do know a lot about your life.
I usually like to sit down with people and ask
them that if from this this moment, you could like
(23:02):
bend space time go back and meet your nine year
old self, would you see yourself in her? Would you go, oh,
I see how I became this? And I'm really curious
about what you think it would be like to sit
down at nine with you and your brother. Would you
go like, oh, yeah, it makes sense that these two
(23:24):
are doing this funny, quirky job together.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
You know, that's a great question, and I'm thinking about
it as you ask it, and I think there are
parts of it that are like, yes, you know, there
are parts of my nine year old self, you know,
my kind of overly confident, bossy kind of self at nine,
(23:48):
the person who you know, could get my brother to
do anything for me. You know. My mother always said,
you know, I stopped raising you when you were ten
because you seem to know what you were doing, right.
I mean, she she would say that, But I'm like, Mom,
you know, half of the stuff I do is you
in my head. So you were there. But I think
that was her way of saying that I was kind
(24:10):
of beyond my years, you know, and kind of independent
in a way. But on the flip side, I'd also say,
as a little girl growing up working class black girl
on the South Side of Chicago, there's absolutely no way
I could have imagined the life that I have now
that wasn't a life that was routinely available to kids
(24:35):
that came from where I came from, you know. So
the notion that me and my brother would you know,
capture audiences and that are back and forth banter, and
the lessons that we learned under the roof of Marion
and Fraser Robinson would be would provide a base of
wisdom for other people. Nah, I wouldn't have imagined in that.
(25:00):
And I think that's also part of why I, you
know now that I think about why I'm doing this,
because at nine and at nine, at twenty, at thirty,
at fifty, because I am a woman period, I didn't
own my wisdom until now, right. I mean, as women were,
(25:26):
we so question what we know. You know, we we're like, well,
maybe I don't know what I'm talking about, So let
me not raise my hand in class, and let me
not you know, while our counterparts as early as twenty
are like, I know the answer, I know how to
fix this, I know what I'm doing. I've noticed that women,
we don't own our wisdom until we have tested and
(25:50):
proven and gone through the fire and won a bunch
that we can say I kind of think I know
something now. I think I have I think I've gotten
enough things right in this world that maybe, now it's
sixty one, I have confidence that the lessons I've learned,
(26:11):
the trials and tribulations that I've gone through, actually have
given me some insight. Yes.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
And then if you own your wisdom, someone will say, wow, well,
don't you think you've had enough?
Speaker 2 (26:24):
Now?
Speaker 1 (26:25):
You need to celebrate it too, no matter what, you're
going to get criticized. And I love that you're willing
to share that and name that is from this moment
at sixty one saying, oh, I get to own this.
(26:45):
I think I have some valuable lessons to share. Are
there is there a big Robinson House lesson that you
see now as such wisdom that you didn't see them?
Speaker 2 (26:58):
There's so many Robinson House lessons. I will say that
looking back now, my parents were beyond their years, you know,
just beyond their experiences. I mean they did not They
were not college educated, but my parents majored in common sense.
(27:20):
They had PIA, both of them had PhDs, and just
some common sense ways of thinking about life. And one
of them was I share this all the time. My
mother's view to child rearing was and I shared this
in the light. She was like, I'm not raising babies,
I'm raising adults. Yes, And so she said she thinks
(27:44):
that one of the big mistakes that parents make that
she would see, is that you're raising your child to
continue to be dependent on you, as if they will
never grow up and have to go out into the big,
bad world. She saw it in in her family, you know,
of how some of her older brothers and sisters, her
(28:05):
father was still waking them up and you know, making
sure they got to school on time. My mother, being
the middle child, always thought, well, why can't you Why
didn't you teach my older sister how to set an
alarm and get up? Why would you continue to wake
up a child to go to school to get their
(28:25):
own education, right, Because if you got to wake them
up for school, you're not going to be able to
wake them up to get to class. At college or
to have a job when they're thirty. Yeah, to play
out that wisdom. My brother and I we had alarm
clocks in kindergarten. She gave us both alarm clocks when
(28:47):
we reached kindergarten. He was first, and she was like,
this is how it works. You are now responsible for
your education. I got mine. You should go to school,
and you have to wake up up, you know. And
it wasn't like my mother wasn't up. She just wasn't
going to wake us up. She was up making breakfast.
But she wanted us to own our lives. So I
(29:10):
think that piece of wisdom has helped me tremendously, and
not only as a human being, but it's helped me
as a mother. Yeah, because she handed me and my
brother our lives, not leaving us out in the cold.
But she said, this is your life, these are your choices,
and I'm gonna let you practice making those choices really early.
(29:34):
I'm not going to wait until you're sixteen to have
you make your first decisions about a set of things.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
Well, it sounds like she was putting your agency in
your hands in perhaps ahead of the curve, but appropriate
ways exactly. And I find it really interesting. You know,
my friends and I talk a lot about the difference
for us at forty is our and didn't have access
to any of the tools we have access to. Yeah,
(30:03):
you know, we we can go to therapy, we can
read about therapy, we can listen to as you know,
Mel Robbins, whatever it is. And and that debate about
how you are your child's safest place, how you can
nurture them through things, but also how you have to
teach them to be resilient, because if you just baby
them through everything, you're just gonna, to your point, raise babies.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
Yeah, and when we confuse being that safe sometimes we
confuse being that safe place because sometimes we're trying to
make ourselves safe, right, I mean, because a lot of
the stuff that we do in the name of protecting
our kids is sometimes protecting us from our fears about them,
(30:50):
from letting them go. It's a scary thing to have.
The first of all, you're shocked by how much you
love your kids. No one can prepare you for how
this little person you've adopted or carried around inside of you,
however you were blessed to have that child in your life,
how they would just take over your heart, you know,
(31:14):
and make you feel so helpless and so you know,
desperate not to mess it up. Right, So if you're
not prepared for that, you don't recognize that most of
us parent out of straight up fear. It's like, I
just want to keep you alive, right, I just and
(31:35):
I don't want you to hurt because it hurts me
to have you hurt.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
Right.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
And so then instead of parenting, we start protecting. And
we're not just protecting our children, we're protecting our own hearts.
And I think we got we gotta kind of really
be mindful about some of the decisions that we may
out of the well intentioned love that we feel for
(32:01):
our children. Yeah, and we can accidentally handycap them. We
can make them believe that we don't believe in them
because we're protecting them. I mean, one of the best
things my mother had us do. And we lived in
a time in a neighborhood where you could walk to school,
right and in kindergarten, after a couple of days of
(32:24):
walking me to school, my mom was like, you can
do this. You know, there are crossing guards at the corner.
You know. The school was literally down the block around
the corner and there was a one big major street
with a crossing guard. And then I was at the
school yard, but of course in kinderar and I thought
my mother was crazy. I was like, I, you know,
(32:45):
why do you trust me out here in the world.
Isn't it bad out here? But she sent me off,
and there was a level of pride that I developed
a sense of confidence in myself that I actually accomplished it. Right,
So when I write and the light that you know,
when we deprive our kids of that independence, we're also
depriving of the feeling of confidence that they can master
(33:09):
like really small things. So my current Michelle Obama confidence,
if I were to pinpoint, it started with that decision,
those small decisions that my mom made to give me
my life and watched me succeed at it and be
okay when I failed, right, Yeah, And so that kind
(33:32):
of wisdom, for example, has helped me. I think it's
uncommon in parenting today, but it's something we should talk about, right,
We should talk about why we parent the way we parent.
Are we operating with a philosophy or are we just
are we just winging it? You know?
Speaker 1 (33:52):
Yeah, Well, isn't this just the best, let's continue this conversation.
We'll be back with Part two with Obama
Hi, everyone, It's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress. Hello whipsmarties, friends,
dear ones. I am beside myself. One of my favorite
(00:22):
human beings in the world is on the podcast today
to talk about life, love, personal evolution, becoming, curiosity, motherhood, martinis,
what reality TV she watches, and what the next phase
of life looks like. Today we are joined by my
(00:44):
forever floatis Michelle Obama. That's such an insane thing to
be saying. You know her as the forty fourth first
Lady of the United States of America. She is an
incredible advocate for women and girls education, democracy. She was
raised on the South side of Chicago, graduated from Princeton
(01:07):
University and Harvard Law School. Is married to none other
than our favorite President, Barack Obama, and is basically the
coolest mom any of us. Notes from her nonprofit work,
her advocacy for girls around the world, her work to
eradicate poverty. Her nonprofit and philanthropic work is something to behold.
(01:28):
Whether she has advocated for poverty awareness, encouraged and helped
to change the rules around girls' education, advocated for better
nutrition policies and physical activity and healthy eating in our country,
She has written three books, including her New York Times
best selling memoir Becoming and The Light We Carry, and
(01:48):
as if that weren't enough, runs an incredible production company
at Netflix, making some of our favorite TV shows, including
one of mine, The Later Daters, and Now when all
her free time, she is starting a podcast with her brother,
Imo In My Opinion is a gathering of Michelle Obama
(02:09):
and her big brother, Craig Robinson, as they bring their
unique experiences and candid perspectives to a range of listeners'
personal dilemmas, from the everyday to the existential, and every
week when they're answering your questions. They're also joined by
special guests to tackle practical advice, relatable anecdotes, and plenty
(02:31):
of laughs, from dating to relationships, parenting, and financial planning.
Imo sees our iconic First Lady at her most relaxed
and honest, and take it from me, this podcast will
leave you laughing, reflecting, and feeling more prepared to tackle
life's challenges. I can't wait to talk to her about
(02:53):
what inspired her to do this, why she's still giving
us so much of her incredible time, and what her
dreams are for what comes next. Let's dig in with
Michelle Obama. Hello, I am so just absolutely thrilled to
(03:19):
see you today, Sophia.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
I'm beyond thrilled to be with you. Haven't seen you
in person in a while, but I've been watching you
and I'm so proud of the work that you're doing
out there in the world, and I'm just delighted to
be able to sit down and chat with.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
You likewise, and that means the world and I will
always give people their flowers. A lot of people ask
me at this stage, you know, it's crazy to think
I signed up for my first presidential with you and
President Obama almost twenty years ago, and people will say, well,
where'd you get so into activism? Why do you care
(03:55):
so much about politics? And I'm like, I had the
best mentors in the game.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
What are you talking about? But You're but but you know,
as we see now, not everybody you know feels the
compelled to to get involved in the at the level
that you did. And that's not just because of us
the campaign. That that's because of who you are. That
you are putting your ideas, your thoughts, your passions, your
(04:23):
disappointments into action, which is what we say that that's
what makes a democracy. You can't sit on the sidelines,
even if you don't if you're not thrilled with every
choice you have on the ballot, and you you walk
the walk, always, always have.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Oh my goodness, I can't tell you how much it
means to me to hear that from you. I I
was planning on beginning with a question not having to
do with politics, but it's impossible not to ask you
about a little bit, and I kind of feel like,
let me ask you now. We'll get it out of
the way and then we can just hang. When you
talk about what a democracy means to you, it really
(05:07):
is soothing, not just for the years, but for the soul.
It's such a reminder that we can both advance a
nation because we care. That it requires telling the truth
and that it might not always be pretty, but if
we do the whole thing, you know, if we encompass
(05:28):
all of what it takes, it will be beautiful. And
you are a voice of reason for both the truth
and the beauty. And so many people seem scared to
talk about what's true, seems scared to acknowledge that our
diversity makes us better, seems scared to fight, they're disheartened,
(05:50):
and they're looking for hope. And the last thing I
want to do is ask another powerful black woman why
the rest of the world should be hopeful because you're
like we told you, but you are such an icon
to so many of us, and in this moment, is
there something you say, not necessarily as one of the
you know, former leaders of the free world, but just
(06:11):
as as a mom and a friend that you want
to say to the people you care about when they
feel afraid.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
You know, I just want to remind people, first of all,
fear is real, and it's rational, rational, and it's it's reasonable. Look,
too many people in this country, I don't care what
their race, their political party, they're struggling these it's it's
it's hard to get ahead in this world these days.
(06:42):
Too much, too many people have too much, you know,
too few people have too much. Too many people don't
have enough. And that is the basis of a lot
of fear. You know, when when people can't, you know,
they can't build a life that is reasonable with all
the hard work that they put in. People are struggling
(07:05):
to get ahead. They are working too many jobs and
still not able to get ahead. And that that just
predisposes people to be afraid. So I think first we
have to acknowledge that we do need to create some
balance economically, that if we don't find a way to
(07:28):
really invest in the middle class, all of it right
as we did when my parents were growing up.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
I mean, my.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
Father was a blue collar worker. He worked for the city.
And let me stop there about how important city government
workers are, federal government workers. Those are the jobs, those
are the roles in our society that built America in
so many ways. And on that single salary, my father
could pay his bills, my mother could stay at home.
(07:59):
He put two of us through college, and he had
a little bit of savings and a pension. Right, that
reality doesn't exist for enough people anymore. And when you
don't have that, you are afraid, and you do look
around for someone to blame. And that's where leadership comes in,
(08:20):
because leadership can either lead buy fear. They can either
fuel that fear and explain it away by saying, be
afraid of other people, people who aren't like you, somebody
else is to blame for this, Or you have leaders
who leave lead with hope and remind us that we
swim and sink together, and that we have to do
(08:42):
our part to make sure that our neighbors have enough
so that they feel like they have a stake in
this democracy. That's why I think hope is important, you know,
because it does control how we feel, and we cannot
underestimate the role that negative, negative language does to our
(09:05):
psyche and it makes us tired, and it makes us
want to give up, and it taps into the worst
of us. So I always say we owe it to
the next generation to stay hopeful. We have to watch
our language. We may say what we how we feel
in the privacy of our own homes, but those of
(09:26):
us with public platforms, I think we have a responsibility
to keep moving us towards the light and encouraging everyone
to stay educated, focused and engaged in this democracy. So,
I mean, you know, there's no easy way to talk
(09:46):
about it, but I think we first have to acknowledge
that a lot of people don't feel like they have
a fair shake in this country, and when they don't,
they're easy pickings, you know, And it's easy for us
to turn on one another when so many of us
are struggling.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
Do you think that part of that is because the
power that we're up against is so hard to kind
of quantify for the average person, And I say that
including myself. You know the idea that in the last
Trump presidency, twenty five percent of the entire United States
(10:26):
debt was created because we'd rather give a trillion dollar
tax cut to like sixty billionaires instead of just tax
folks that allowed for the system that your dad and
mom could flourish. And when you were a kid, it's
so hard to fathom that what those numbers mean that
(10:46):
it can be easier to think, well, there must be
waste in the government, and why do we have so
many federal employees. And now now that the federal employees
are getting cut and the cancer research is getting cut
and all these people are getting fired, they're like, wait.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Wait, wait, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
It almost seems to me like the reality that I
think the leadership that you and your husband displayed, the
leadership that so many of our great elders in the
progressive parties have displayed that have tried to teach us
that this doesn't work unless we acknowledge that it's a
community project. It feels like the need for communities finally
(11:22):
hitting people.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
Yeah, I hope so I hope that we understand, as
I said before, that we all sink or swim together.
Is it's disappointing that we have to go through the
fire in this way, but sometimes, you know, I mean,
these issues are complicated, and we also have to remember
(11:47):
we're dealing in different times now where people are very distracted,
they're on their phones, they are tiktoking and thirty character writing,
and know, we're dealing with communication that is totally new,
and it's very hard to describe and explain very complicated
(12:08):
issues in thirty two characters or less, right, And so
I think it's difficult because people want their information in
sound bites. You know, we also have social media that
feeds people what they want, not necessarily the truth or
(12:30):
what they need to hear. So again, not only are
people struggling, but they're being confused. We don't have one
clear source for truth. We don't have one clear source
where we all sit around and gather the same kind
of news and we hear the same kind of facts, right,
And we've never experienced that in any time in our
(12:53):
history as a nation. Because this technology that we're dealing with,
we haven't quite figured it out yet. And just remember Sophia.
When we entered the White House, we came in using blackberries. Right.
There was no such thing as social media, right, we
were learning about it. I mean there was meet Up
(13:15):
if you remember that, that was a big organizing tool
of the Obama campaign. There was no Zoom, there was
no Insta, there was no you know, my kids. I
was barely learning how to parent them with these new tools. Right.
So we're also dealing with a new kind of information
(13:36):
challenge and we haven't figured it out. I don't think
either party has figured it out. Politically, I think people
don't know who to trust. We don't get the same
kinds of information, and therefore it is very hard to
then explain what tariffs are, and you know, what the
deficit is, and what certain spending cuts is and are,
(13:59):
and what how the federal government actually does serve you. You know,
there there are books out there, but people aren't reading books.
You know. The Fifth Risk that talks about the role
that the government plays and how much we depend on
it for our weather and FEMA and you know, and
I could go on and on and on, but you
(14:21):
know the government doesn't have a pr campaign, right, right,
I mean they don't have the resources of the technology
technology giants to promote what government does. So it's very
easy for people to say, yeah, this is the problem.
You know, it exploded. What does the VA actually do?
You know, Well, let's just WoT. Yeah, of the VIA
(14:43):
does a lot. But if you're not getting that fit
to you twenty four to seven, then the average American
probably fully doesn't understand it.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
We'll be back in just a minute, but here's a
word from our sponsors speaking of social media. So a
great meme this week that was like talking about how
this sort of economic disaster that's done on purpose can
only happen every hundred years because everybody who made it
happen the last time has to be dead.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
Ye try to happen again. I saw, and I was like, that's.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
Part of it, because we lose sight of how it
actually works. But something that feels important to say, including
the book that you just referenced, which we will put
in our show notes, because we do say the audience
of this this podcast is whip smart. They like to
learn things. Black women show up for democracy in record numbers,
(15:39):
and we would be remiss not to say that as
confusing as these silos can be, as toxic as these
algorithms are, as much as this is an information kind
of warfare. Now with social media, you still see black
women show up at ninety two percent rates and vote
for progress. And so what I would like to suggest
(16:04):
to the folks listening to this show is not only
to follow our esteemed guest, but to tailor your algorithm.
Follow women like Brittany Pacnett Cunningham, follow social justice leaders
in your communities. Tailor your algorithm to begin to expose
(16:25):
you to the people who stand up for what America
is supposed to be at her best, because you can
change your algorithm. And that would be my first tip
for the folks at home to do that.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
And I want to add that we need to get
off our phones too and make sure that our real
lives are filled with diverse voices and experiences. We cannot
rely on somebody else telling us who our neighbors are.
It is our responsibility to step outside of our comfort
(16:59):
zone and meet some people who think differently, who look differently.
You know, I always say this if you're sitting around
a table, or if you're at a table of leadership
and everybody looks like you, and everybody agrees with you
something is wrong. That is at the core of why
diversity is important, because we get to meet each other
(17:20):
and share ideas and have real intellectual conversations. This is
why your podcast is important. It's one of the reasons
why I'm starting IMO. I mean IMO in my opinion
are My new podcast with my brother is not a
political podcast, because I think right now people shut their
(17:44):
ears off to politics. But we do need to be
in real conversations with each other, you know. We have
to be having these kind of serious conversations but having
some fun and learning how we think and and engaging
face to face with people. So I want your listeners
to say that there is no substitute for really knowing
(18:07):
your neighbor, for having a conversation with the person on
the train next to you, putting down your phone while
you're standing in line at the checkout counter, maybe looking
over at the doctor's office and saying hi to the
person sitting next to you, especially if they don't look
like you. We have to be mindful, vigilant and purposeful
(18:32):
about creating diversity in our lives because social technology is
pushing us in the opposite direction.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
Yeah, you know, I love that you mentioned the podcast
because this is exactly where I wanted to go. As
you know, sitting in your home studio in front of
a micro is tracking the time, and I'm like, we've
already spent twenty minutes on democracy, and I want to
ask the questions.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
Because I'd be remiss not too.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
I really just want to hang out with you and
like have a kiky And this that's what made me
so excited when I read the announcement and I saw
what you and your brother are doing, because you are
just gathering people for a little bit of a of
a respite and a laugh and maybe some learning. And
to be clear, like, you don't owe us more. You
(19:19):
don't need to do this podcast. So why didn't you
decide that this was the thing you wanted to do,
this was the way you wanted to do it.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
What is what? The honest answer is, I don't know
what was right. But the truth is, I, you know,
I feel like I I want to offer something in
these times. I you know why, I don't owe anybody
(19:47):
anything When you have the opportunity to have a platform
and to share stories and to you know, engage. For
me personally, it's a little selfish because I love people.
I love engaging with the American public, you know, I
really I am curious about what they are struggling with
(20:08):
and how they're talking about things, and if I would
be the kind of person who would be talking to
you on the grocery line, if I was allowed to
go into a grocery store like a normal person without
secret service, right. I mean, my life is as it
stands now, is not the usual life I'm used to living.
(20:29):
I'm not connecting with people in the way that I
like to, you know, So the podcast vehicle allows for that.
It allows me with my brother outside of my husband,
the person that I love most, who knows me best.
So it's also kind of a cool thing for me
to be working on a project with my big brother.
(20:51):
We have never worked together in a way. We've never
done any work project together. So I just like the
fact that once a week I get to be in
conversation with our listeners. I get to hear what's going
on in their lives. We get to pull in some friends,
(21:12):
some celebrities, some experts. I get to learn, continue to
learn and grow, and we're not talking about you know,
I don't have to be right about everything because we're
you know, I'm not coming in as the expert. It's
just our opinion, you know, and we all have them,
and so I think it's a really fun and exciting
(21:37):
way for me to continue to stay engaged with the
American people and the people who have come to know
and trust and look for me. I don't want anyone
to feel like, while I'm never going to go into politics,
I care about what happens in this country, and I
care about how people are managing through it. And if
(22:01):
I can offer a little bit of light once a
week to somebody, you know, why not.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
Yeah, So a little bit of joy.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
I hope it's a little bit of joy and a
little bit of support as well.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
And now a word from our sponsors that I really
enjoy and I think you will too. I love hearing
you talk about the why, because every once in a
while someone will ask me why I do this, and
I'll lean he in, go Kamere. You realize I made
it my job to ask really cool people a bunch
(22:39):
of questions and hanging out for an hour. It's like
it feels like I won the career lottery. You talking
about your relationship with Craig is a segue into what
is normally my first question for people, but I feel
like people really do know a lot about your life.
I usually like to sit down with people and ask
them that if from this this moment, you could like
(23:02):
bend space time go back and meet your nine year
old self, would you see yourself in her? Would you go, oh,
I see how I became this? And I'm really curious
about what you think it would be like to sit
down at nine with you and your brother. Would you
go like, oh, yeah, it makes sense that these two
(23:24):
are doing this funny, quirky job together.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
You know, that's a great question, and I'm thinking about
it as you ask it, and I think there are
parts of it that are like, yes, you know, there
are parts of my nine year old self, you know,
my kind of overly confident, bossy kind of self at nine,
(23:48):
the person who you know, could get my brother to
do anything for me. You know. My mother always said,
you know, I stopped raising you when you were ten
because you seem to know what you were doing, right.
I mean, she she would say that, But I'm like, Mom,
you know, half of the stuff I do is you
in my head. So you were there. But I think
that was her way of saying that I was kind
(24:10):
of beyond my years, you know, and kind of independent
in a way. But on the flip side, I'd also say,
as a little girl growing up working class black girl
on the South Side of Chicago, there's absolutely no way
I could have imagined the life that I have now
that wasn't a life that was routinely available to kids
(24:35):
that came from where I came from, you know. So
the notion that me and my brother would you know,
capture audiences and that are back and forth banter, and
the lessons that we learned under the roof of Marion
and Fraser Robinson would be would provide a base of
wisdom for other people. Nah, I wouldn't have imagined in that.
(25:00):
And I think that's also part of why I, you
know now that I think about why I'm doing this,
because at nine and at nine, at twenty, at thirty,
at fifty, because I am a woman period, I didn't
own my wisdom until now, right. I mean, as women were,
(25:26):
we so question what we know. You know, we we're like, well,
maybe I don't know what I'm talking about, So let
me not raise my hand in class, and let me
not you know, while our counterparts as early as twenty
are like, I know the answer, I know how to
fix this, I know what I'm doing. I've noticed that women,
we don't own our wisdom until we have tested and
(25:50):
proven and gone through the fire and won a bunch
that we can say I kind of think I know
something now. I think I have I think I've gotten
enough things right in this world that maybe, now it's
sixty one, I have confidence that the lessons I've learned,
(26:11):
the trials and tribulations that I've gone through, actually have
given me some insight. Yes.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
And then if you own your wisdom, someone will say, wow, well,
don't you think you've had enough?
Speaker 2 (26:24):
Now?
Speaker 1 (26:25):
You need to celebrate it too, no matter what, you're
going to get criticized. And I love that you're willing
to share that and name that is from this moment
at sixty one saying, oh, I get to own this.
(26:45):
I think I have some valuable lessons to share. Are
there is there a big Robinson House lesson that you
see now as such wisdom that you didn't see them?
Speaker 2 (26:58):
There's so many Robinson House lessons. I will say that
looking back now, my parents were beyond their years, you know,
just beyond their experiences. I mean they did not They
were not college educated, but my parents majored in common sense.
(27:20):
They had PIA, both of them had PhDs, and just
some common sense ways of thinking about life. And one
of them was I share this all the time. My
mother's view to child rearing was and I shared this
in the light. She was like, I'm not raising babies,
I'm raising adults. Yes, And so she said she thinks
(27:44):
that one of the big mistakes that parents make that
she would see, is that you're raising your child to
continue to be dependent on you, as if they will
never grow up and have to go out into the big,
bad world. She saw it in in her family, you know,
of how some of her older brothers and sisters, her
(28:05):
father was still waking them up and you know, making
sure they got to school on time. My mother, being
the middle child, always thought, well, why can't you Why
didn't you teach my older sister how to set an
alarm and get up? Why would you continue to wake
up a child to go to school to get their
(28:25):
own education, right, Because if you got to wake them
up for school, you're not going to be able to
wake them up to get to class. At college or
to have a job when they're thirty. Yeah, to play
out that wisdom. My brother and I we had alarm
clocks in kindergarten. She gave us both alarm clocks when
(28:47):
we reached kindergarten. He was first, and she was like,
this is how it works. You are now responsible for
your education. I got mine. You should go to school,
and you have to wake up up, you know. And
it wasn't like my mother wasn't up. She just wasn't
going to wake us up. She was up making breakfast.
But she wanted us to own our lives. So I
(29:10):
think that piece of wisdom has helped me tremendously, and
not only as a human being, but it's helped me
as a mother. Yeah, because she handed me and my
brother our lives, not leaving us out in the cold.
But she said, this is your life, these are your choices,
and I'm gonna let you practice making those choices really early.
(29:34):
I'm not going to wait until you're sixteen to have
you make your first decisions about a set of things.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
Well, it sounds like she was putting your agency in
your hands in perhaps ahead of the curve, but appropriate
ways exactly. And I find it really interesting. You know,
my friends and I talk a lot about the difference
for us at forty is our and didn't have access
to any of the tools we have access to. Yeah,
(30:03):
you know, we we can go to therapy, we can
read about therapy, we can listen to as you know,
Mel Robbins, whatever it is. And and that debate about
how you are your child's safest place, how you can
nurture them through things, but also how you have to
teach them to be resilient, because if you just baby
them through everything, you're just gonna, to your point, raise babies.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
Yeah, and when we confuse being that safe sometimes we
confuse being that safe place because sometimes we're trying to
make ourselves safe, right, I mean, because a lot of
the stuff that we do in the name of protecting
our kids is sometimes protecting us from our fears about them,
(30:50):
from letting them go. It's a scary thing to have.
The first of all, you're shocked by how much you
love your kids. No one can prepare you for how
this little person you've adopted or carried around inside of you,
however you were blessed to have that child in your life,
how they would just take over your heart, you know,
(31:14):
and make you feel so helpless and so you know,
desperate not to mess it up. Right, So if you're
not prepared for that, you don't recognize that most of
us parent out of straight up fear. It's like, I
just want to keep you alive, right, I just and
(31:35):
I don't want you to hurt because it hurts me
to have you hurt.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
Right.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
And so then instead of parenting, we start protecting. And
we're not just protecting our children, we're protecting our own hearts.
And I think we got we gotta kind of really
be mindful about some of the decisions that we may
out of the well intentioned love that we feel for
(32:01):
our children. Yeah, and we can accidentally handycap them. We
can make them believe that we don't believe in them
because we're protecting them. I mean, one of the best
things my mother had us do. And we lived in
a time in a neighborhood where you could walk to school,
right and in kindergarten, after a couple of days of
(32:24):
walking me to school, my mom was like, you can
do this. You know, there are crossing guards at the corner.
You know. The school was literally down the block around
the corner and there was a one big major street
with a crossing guard. And then I was at the
school yard, but of course in kinderar and I thought
my mother was crazy. I was like, I, you know,
(32:45):
why do you trust me out here in the world.
Isn't it bad out here? But she sent me off,
and there was a level of pride that I developed
a sense of confidence in myself that I actually accomplished it. Right,
So when I write and the light that you know,
when we deprive our kids of that independence, we're also
depriving of the feeling of confidence that they can master
(33:09):
like really small things. So my current Michelle Obama confidence,
if I were to pinpoint, it started with that decision,
those small decisions that my mom made to give me
my life and watched me succeed at it and be
okay when I failed, right, Yeah, And so that kind
(33:32):
of wisdom, for example, has helped me. I think it's
uncommon in parenting today, but it's something we should talk about, right,
We should talk about why we parent the way we parent.
Are we operating with a philosophy or are we just
are we just winging it? You know?
Speaker 1 (33:52):
Yeah, Well, isn't this just the best, let's continue this conversation.
We'll be back with Part two with Obama
Hosts And Creators
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Sophia Bush
Robert Buckley
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