BONUS: Introducing: Everybody Has a Podcast With Ruth and Ray (Kelly Stewart Harcourt Interview)

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
I'm Ruth, I'm Ray. We go together like Beyonce and
Jay No. I don't know what's wrong with that? Tell
me what's wrong with that? Nothing like the Rider Die
like us? Right?

Speaker 2 (00:12):
You know what, I'm not that writer Die.

Speaker 1 (00:15):
She's a Latina.

Speaker 2 (00:16):
He's a gringo. I'm into culture.

Speaker 1 (00:19):
And food and I'm a zero.

Speaker 2 (00:21):
Why would you say that?

Speaker 1 (00:22):
I'm I'm into boring documentary stuff and like you're into
like cool stuff. Why do we want to listen to this?
It's because we're different.

Speaker 2 (00:31):
We go together like how and why?

Speaker 1 (00:34):
But somehow it just works.

Speaker 2 (00:37):
What are you guys dealing?

Speaker 1 (00:39):
Go back to bed, Pablo. We're just recording our podcast,
Anybody pot.

Speaker 2 (00:45):
Everybody has a podcast with Ruth and Ray.

Speaker 1 (00:49):
Hey, everybody, welcome to the very first episode of Everybody
has a Podcast with Ruth and Ray.

Speaker 2 (00:54):
Now here's my question. Should we call it just everybody
has a podcast? Should we call it Everybody has a
podcast with Ruth and Ray?

Speaker 1 (01:04):
I would like to promote ourselves, so I so you know,
I'm on the I'm on the Documentary Producers Alliance Crediting Committee,
and I've been fighting. My argument is always, like other
people can tell me, I'm too small to have my
name in the billing. But when I do my projects,
I'm gonna have my name in the billing.

Speaker 2 (01:25):
Right No, which which I get, I understand, But it's
just really funny, like to me in a way, like
sometimes I get a little cringe about myself and credits
and stuff like that, Like you know, I love a credit,
but at the same time, at the same time, sometimes
I wonder, like, oh my God, is this very I
can't think of the word. My brain isn't at a

(01:45):
ton today because I woke up with a little headache
with the migraine. But sometimes it feels very self serving, Mike,
do you think does anyone care that Ruth and Ray
are hosting this? But in a way, I also think
it adds to the humor of the point of our
podcast that we're very self deprecating, that like we're aware
and like, yeah, nobody gives a fuck or like knows
who we are.

Speaker 1 (02:04):
Yeah, I heard, uh, I heard. Jay Z had the
same issue with his first couple albums. He was like,
do I really need my name on the front of that.
Let's just call it what we call it.

Speaker 2 (02:13):
Well, his name is jay Z, his his right his
birth name, his government name is not.

Speaker 1 (02:20):
I don't know what that has to do with my
point at all, but I was making a joke about
the fact that I really doubt Jay Z ever for
a second considered not do you think that.

Speaker 2 (02:30):
We should get stage names for this podcast? Like don't
you think Ray and Ruth sound really lame? Like who
wants to listen to Ray and Ruth say anything?

Speaker 1 (02:41):
There's a there's from the intro you heard, there's a
bunch of outtake stuff in which, like in the moment,
Ruth suddenly tried to change it from Ruth and Ray
to uh Low and Nova, which is what she calls me.
Low is what her friends, old friends have called her,
and I immediately shut that down.

Speaker 2 (02:57):
I just love a nickname, and I just fascinate a
little bit more with my nickname than my government name,
only because I've never felt like a Ruth. I just
feel like there's a reason why Norma Jean became Marilyn Monroe.
And back in the day, they would give you stage
names in Hollywood because they were like, look, the thing

(03:17):
is like Norma is not hitting, you know, like we
want to make you Maryland or whatever. So like, so
I guess what I'm saying is if I had a
Hollywood agent in the forties or fifties or thirties, they
would be like, Okay, but Ruth isn't gonna work. And
I would be like, fine, call me Low because like
that's the nickname that I gave myself and there's a

(03:38):
story behind it in high school and it's stuck and
it felt right to me, Like it actually just felt
right to me. L Oh, that's it, like.

Speaker 1 (03:46):
L oh, So, welcome to everybody as a podcast with
Ruth and Ray And it's our very first episode. So
here's our concept behind the show.

Speaker 2 (03:54):
I think is, yes, why why did we need to
make this podcast?

Speaker 1 (03:57):
Yeah? We didn't. We really didn't, is the truth. No
podcast needs to be made. But you know, we've been
in the documentary and podcasting business for a good little
while now, and I think what struck me was that
every week we would end up talking to this kind
of weird variety of incredibly interesting people, whether you're doing

(04:20):
research for a project or another projects underway, and it
seemed to me that like one out of that group
of people that we've met or talked to that week
might give us thirty minutes to actually just records that
interesting conversation for the purpose of our podcast, So I thought,
why not, like you and I could kind of, you know,

(04:43):
let people in on what we're up to and what's
on our mind within kind of the media business, let's say,
each week, and then kind of introduce an interview in
which we talk with one of the interesting people we
happen to run into this week.

Speaker 2 (04:57):
And that's definitely from your perspective, because for my motivation
is slightly different, so we overlap in motivation, and that
I agree that you and I have been in the
entertainment business for what twenty years at this point, right
like literally since I'm twenty, I'm doing something and radio
or whatever it is, and you were making movies and

(05:17):
you were in film school and et cetera. Correct. So
my point is that I just felt that personally, I've
always wanted to be a personality on television or radio,
and I never really cultivated that opportunity for myself, and
I spent all of my youth waiting for somebody to
maybe like offer the opportunity for me or like almost

(05:39):
getting very close to it. And I did have a
radio show in college and that was really fun, and
I loved the experience and it was a total high
And why I didn't keep pursuing that is interesting and
that's a whole story and journey on itself. But I
just felt like, Okay, we've been highlighting, spotlighting, help helping

(06:00):
others get their stories out there, and showcasing their talents
all of our careers, especially me as someone who's in production, marketing, PR,
et cetera, et cetera. Right, Like, I'm always working to
make someone else's work visible, Okay, And I felt like, okay,
now it's my time. Now I would like to be
in front of a camera or radio or whatever. And

(06:22):
I felt like getting behind the microphone was the easiest
way to get myself out there, because, as you know,
I'm incredibly hard on myself visually, Like I have body
dysmorphia and insecurities and it's like a really real thing.
And so you know, I kind of like jokingly like
to say, well, I have a face for radio, so

(06:45):
you know I can do that.

Speaker 1 (06:46):
Cool, I'm going to cut that part.

Speaker 2 (06:48):
No, you're not. It's honest. Also, I really wanted to
I really want to have an honest conversation during our podcast.
And also just I guess let people get to know
us better, because I do think that we are kind
of like a prototype or not prototype, like we are.
I think we're relatable to a lot of people in

(07:10):
show business in our industries because we don't always share
the struggle that goes into being part of the entertainment industry.
And all people see are like, oh, great, Ruth and
Ray are at a premiere, or they have this movie
out or a book or or whatever. But they don't

(07:32):
get to see the struggle behind the scenes. And I
really want to open up a little bit more about
that a little bit. How we did on the on
the George Bailey Podcast episode ten, which we should talk about.

Speaker 1 (07:42):
I imagine a lot of you who are coming to
this first episode are possibly jumping off of having taken
the ten episode journey through George Bailey was Never Born,
which was We got it done by hook or by
crook and released it ten days ago on November twenty first,
and I've the audience has been pretty strong and steady

(08:04):
and building over time, which is great. I think it's
kind of a buzz word of mouth show. But the
tenth episode we got talked into by Kurt Angfer, who
was a producer editor on a couple of Michael Moore movies,
and he partnered to make this podcast with us, and
he and his wife when we were looking for that
last episode, was like, we kind of think it should

(08:25):
be about, like I think everyone's just going to be
wondering after the first nine episodes, why this matters, why
you made this? What is going on? So they talked
us into an autobiographical episode, and we realized that this
year we were going through some things that in some
ways match some of the themes of the existential crisis
that George Bailey went through in the movie It's a

(08:47):
Wonderful Life.

Speaker 2 (08:47):
So totally yeah. And for the record, I want to
clear something up on episode ten when you hear us
talking about how we see life or whatever, and I
touch on how like you like to glamorize, uh, struggle
whereas I don't, and then you were like yeah, like
you said something like yeah, I think we've had like
this great life or time or journey or whatever, and

(09:08):
you and you're like, yeah, remember we didn't have a
mattress or a bad frame. And I just want to
clear up that we have always had a mattress and
we had always had a bad frame and that is
very important to me and not.

Speaker 1 (09:22):
At all important to I.

Speaker 2 (09:24):
Know, but I don't know what but see, this is
this is I guess this is part of me, your personality,
uh my trait that I I get really guarded and
weirded out by shit like that. You know, I'm just
kind of like, oh my god, like like no, like, yes,
the struggle is real, but like it's not like I

(09:44):
do have enough scratch to get myself a bad frame.
I always have, but the struggle is real in very
other important ways.

Speaker 1 (09:55):
You and I are just different, and that's kind of
why we.

Speaker 2 (09:59):
We are this podcast.

Speaker 1 (10:00):
Well, because here's the thing I think. I don't know.
I think you would be perfectly good in a solo podcast,
but for me, I would just take it too dry
and too boring for the average audience. And by that
I mean that like it would be all about what's
been happening in the labor movement, or this the social
justice struggle right now, or the nuts and bolts of

(10:22):
the documentary media biz. And I think for that to
be I think that stuff can be interesting for y'all,
but but I think it's more interesting to have the
balance that is the relationship I've lucked into here with you, Ree.

Speaker 2 (10:37):
I think it's very Sonny and share and I think
it's very like, what are those siblings that made that
movie that song? Like I'm a Lia big country and
I'm Alia bid rockin roll.

Speaker 1 (10:50):
Yeah you're gonna yeah, Sure, we're very Donnie and Marie.

Speaker 2 (10:54):
No, I think I'm not saying we're Donnie and Marie.
What I'm saying is that we're in this case, you're
a little bit country, I'm a little bit rock and roll,
or you're you're a little bit nerdy academic and I
am smart but pop culture driven.

Speaker 1 (11:11):
Yeah. So I don't know to make to make the
stuff that I want to go into palatable on a
weekly basis. I feel like Ruth is a nice balance,
just as she's been a nice You've been a nice
balance to me in life.

Speaker 3 (11:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (11:23):
So I think we should talk a little bit about
our interests. I mean, you just did. Those are the
things that you are actually interested in, right, those are
the things like like on the daily basis, your your
natural interest in hobbies lie under.

Speaker 1 (11:37):
My Well, I don't have hobbies or interest anymore because
my life for about the last ten years has been
dominated by endless around the clock work and then a
little family time when I can do it. The uh
I kind of went into it. It's I've done okay. Well, Actually,
to answer that question, I would just talk about what

(11:59):
our last month there so has been. So just some
of you may be coming to us, because very few
of you may be coming to us because you watched
the Apple TV documentary series The Supermodels, where I was
a story producer, So there was a period of time
when I was really getting into the weeds on Supermodels

(12:20):
of the nineteen nineties.

Speaker 2 (12:22):
I love how you say that, like like dubiously, and
I'm over here sitting like I could name them all.

Speaker 1 (12:28):
No, totally right, Yeah, but like if we'd been recording
this podcast during that you might hear us talking to
somebody who was very close with Linda Evangelista or something.

Speaker 2 (12:37):
Right, So that's the one that you mentioned out of
all of.

Speaker 1 (12:40):
Them, So I'll bring that up first. But some of
the audience may be coming from having watched Gumbo Coalition
on formerly HBO Max now just called Max. Yes, And
that's one I spent five years on and it's very
near and dear to my heart because it's civil rights
Warriors during the Trump Press at NC, including Mark Moreal,

(13:02):
head of the Urban League, Janet Margia, head of unido'sh
US and so social Justice I'm currently working on after
the Uprising season two. Our first season got an NAACP
Image Award nomination, and we're trying to solve the murder
of a famous activist out of Ferguson, out of Saint Louis. So,

(13:22):
I mean, I think that gives a sense. And then
a weird left turn my total fandom devotion to the
holiday classic It's a wonderful life, which is like one
of these things is not like the other. Right, Yeah,
but you talked me into doing that project in part
because you were saying, like, dude, you've got this whole
other side of you that's poppy and nerdy and optimistic.

Speaker 2 (13:46):
There is this very light, fluffy, whimsical, like sitcom family,
sitcom dad version of you that people do not ever
get to see that I actually really enjoy, which I
think is the part that made me fall in love
with you, not necessarily your interest in nine to eleven.

(14:07):
I mean, I do not want to sit around and
talk about nine to eleven with you ever again. I
feel like I've done my time on that topic with you.
We're good, But yes, I want to. I think it's
important for our listeners to know a little bit about
us and in our very basic interest, just at least
for this episode, and as time goes on, you'll get
to know a little bit more.

Speaker 1 (14:27):
For the record, nine to eleven caused a number of
people inside our government to become human rights abusers, So
we can go ahead and move on from that.

Speaker 2 (14:37):
All right, let's lighten it up a little bit. Let's
talk about me.

Speaker 1 (14:40):
Actually, yes, we should talk about you. I kind of
thought we might let people know who the guest is
this week. They'll be hearing in the second half of
this podcast.

Speaker 2 (14:47):
Well we will, but let me. Let's let's talk about
me for a second and what I'm into, because I
think we're still people are getting to know us. So
let's let's explain a little bit. So here are my interests. Okay,
my interests are pop culture, sure, food culture, society issues.
I do care about human rights, obviously a little bit
on politics, but just lightly politics. I do like being

(15:11):
informed and staying informed and being proactive in politics, but
I don't I don't want to talk about it for
an hour on a podcast. You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (15:19):
I love how you use the same voice when you
mentioned I also concerned about human rights as I used
when I mentioned the Supermodels project.

Speaker 2 (15:26):
Totally, and that's what makes the world go round. It's
a balance. It's a yin and yang. Really. I like
fashion and style and obviously who doesn't love travel. And
you know, I'm a glamour puss, so I like a
little touch of glamour on everything. But yeah, so that's
a little bit about me, and I have a lot

(15:46):
of opinions. I have a lot of thoughts, and so
I hope that we have fun doing this podcast. If
you look with two sides of a coin, basically.

Speaker 1 (15:54):
You look at your Instagram, You've devoted a lot of
your life to food, food culture, culinary, chefing, vegetarian.

Speaker 2 (16:04):
Oh yeah, yeah, I mean I do, yes, yes, absolutely.
And I don't know how deep we want to get into,
like getting to know us better, but I feel like
we can leave that for the next episode. This is
like a nice preview bare necessities.

Speaker 1 (16:18):
Intro on us and on what would have been called
Latino Interests at one time was called latinx interest is
now called Latine latinae Latine. You know, I don't know
to what extent you want to go into besides for
you being you know, the children of Mexican immigrants that
you do a lot of work these days in that sector.

Speaker 2 (16:38):
Oh yeah, I mean, I definitely can go on and
on about that. I love talking about culture. I love
culture in general, like like worldwide culture. I love I
love learning about the nuances and the niches of culture
and people in the way that people grew up, and
how they eat and where they eat, and their religion.
And it's such an in all of those things. I

(17:00):
guess you could say in a way, I love knowing
about folklore as well.

Speaker 1 (17:06):
You know see, I was thinking more like you actively
work with an organization.

Speaker 2 (17:10):
Well now, but that's very recent. I haven't done that
all of my life. But however, in the last almost
twenty years of working in the entertainment industry in a
one way or another, and also the fine arts industry,
I have always capped a foot in Latino interests, so

(17:31):
meaning Latino art or film or independent artists. I've always
made sure to surround myself next to I guess I
should say Latine interests. Does that make any sense?

Speaker 1 (17:46):
Yeah, you used to be a correspondent for something called
My Latino Voice, and I worked for people in Espanol Espanol,
and I.

Speaker 2 (17:54):
You know, I've just I've always been servicing and trying
to help as much as I can in the Latina community.

Speaker 1 (18:00):
So I guess, I guess it's going to be coy
about her current work with a Latine organization, but you
can expect that one of the topics you'll hear from
rootside of things is maybe some some weekly updates on
what's on her mind or what she's seeing in that area.

Speaker 2 (18:16):
I am currently employed at LACASA Latino Cultural Center, which
is an awesome cultural center at Indiana University Bloomington, and
we just celebrated fifty years. And I used to go
and hang out at LACASA for a few years in
undergrad when I was a student at Indiana University. So

(18:37):
it's a full circle how I ended up back there.
But it is one of the most, if not the
most fulfilling job I've ever had, and it's surprising to me, actually,
I didn't know that I was going to love interacting
and working alongside students so much college students and Latine
students and I just I'm so inspired by them and

(19:00):
motivated and encouraged, and I just apparently I never knew this,
but I really, I really like that kind of work.
I mean, I always knew that it was within me,
but I just didn't. I didn't under I never knew
how to make it resonate, resonate in a almost like
social service factor. Does that make any sense? Because like

(19:23):
helping lat the non director make a short film or
a feature film is different than helping a nineteen year old,
you know, get through college. Not that I'm helping them
get through college, but I am part of an institution
that gives them a home, a safe space during their

(19:44):
undergrad years. Does that make sense?

Speaker 1 (19:46):
So it's everything else it makes sense. I can't talk
with you because you just look at me like that
makes sense?

Speaker 2 (19:52):
You frown your face while I say things like, does
is this make sense?

Speaker 1 (19:55):
Here's gonna be one of the really fun things if
you continue down this journey with us. As you can
tell from the little opening we did, is that you're
gonna you're gonna get inside a marriage. Yeah, and we nam,
but the differences can be both add to our worlds
and also make for frequent I think, uh, irritation and

(20:18):
a little minor combativeness. We just we just fun to
from the outside.

Speaker 2 (20:23):
We communicate a little differently, that's all it is. Yeah, Okay,
So something else that I want to touch on is
the structure of this podcast. So we're starting every podcast
with a little bit of maybe a recap, some fun
facts about us as we get to know each other,
what's going on in the world, and news in depending

(20:44):
on what we're interested in that week, and then about
halfway through or the last half, how I should say,
Ray really want to I I originally just wanted to
kick the ship with you and talk about different things,
right and have an opinionated podcast, But as you pointed out,
that that might not be very interesting or engaging to
a lot of people. So we're going to add interviews.

(21:08):
And the reason why we're adding interviews is because along
the way of our twenty year experiences in the entertainment business,
we have come to meet a lot of interesting people
and they continue to do interesting things, and so a
goal of ours is to basically in introduce you to
people who you may have never heard of, who are

(21:30):
making a lot of things happen that you are a
part of. That you have maybe already watched or listened to,
for example, the Supermodels project or the Gumbo Coalition or
whatever I have done, which we could really go.

Speaker 1 (21:43):
Down that roade. A lot of times, yeah, a lot
of times we end up like getting hired to help
develop a project that never ends up even coming out.
So for like a couple months, we become these experts
on this weird thing, like it might be the you know,
the history of the Supermodels in the nineteen nineties, or
it might be X, Y or Z, and so all
of a sudden, we'll just over the course of a week,

(22:04):
you know, the diversity of you know, I might I
remember there was one There was this one day where
I was prepping a pitch for Hillary Clinton for a documentary.
I remember that. And then right, and then go and
like talk with the one of the heads of the
Producer's Guild of America for this other thing, and then
so on and so on and so on, and it's like, man,
the number of like different worlds that have all come

(22:26):
into our world over the course of this day or
this week can sometimes be because of our profession, because
it's nonfiction, it can be very kind of interesting. So
so For instance, some of you may have heard, well,
every single person listening to this has at least heard
the name Jimmy Stewart, the iconic, the iconic American actor.

(22:48):
If not, it just makes me sad.

Speaker 2 (22:51):
I think that if you're a cinephio and into American
folklore in history, you've heard of Jimmy Stewart. But okay,
there is an age gap difference here, right. I feel
like if you're thirty five and over, you have a
good chance of knowing who Jimmy Stewart is. If you're
under thirty five, you might be asking yourself who that
is and you need to see a picture, and then
when you see the picture, you're like, oh, okay, I

(23:12):
know who.

Speaker 1 (23:13):
That got what? All right? All right? But I feel
like everyone knows the voice, for instance, So I've done
a let me, let me give this a shot here. Well,
you never heard of me, the one who talks with
the weird stutter. But I'm like identifiable. You know, Jimmy Stewart.
What you haven't heard of me? Sorry, Dana Carvey, I
wish he was here to do a good one for.

Speaker 2 (23:35):
You, but such a good one, but yours just so good.
I've always loved her.

Speaker 1 (23:38):
To break into it. Yeah, and you'll hear on this
interview with Jimmy Stewart's daughter Kelly Stuart Harcourt, a sweetheart
of a person, she almost breaks into her own impersonation
of her dad. So listen for that. That'll be a treat.
But no, in all seriousness, fine, what I think you're
pointing to is a larger issue that we ran into
while making the podcast. George Bailey was never born, which

(24:02):
is that so we're of the millennial generation.

Speaker 2 (24:05):
I feel like you're an elder elder mid line, You're
like a senior citizen MILLENNI you're next Soniel, and I'm
an elder millennial.

Speaker 1 (24:12):
I feel like we knew what the basic classic movies
were and had probably seen at least a few of them.
And it's a really weird thing where over the course
of making that other podcast, I could every conversation I
had with someone gen z or younger, they had literally

(24:32):
never seen a black and white movie, had never considered
seeing one. Didn't feel they were missing out on anything.
When they think classic movies, it starts with kind of
The Godfather in the nineteen seventies and goes.

Speaker 2 (24:43):
Oh, I think you are being generous. I think when
it comes to quote unquote old movies, they're like, like
their favorite old Christmas movie is elf.

Speaker 1 (24:54):
Yeah, you might be right, and so that's just like
a whole separate topic. But I think for the majority
of mature adults, like Jimmy. So when in the early
in the late nineties early two thousands, the American Film
Institute did this great series of polls where they pulled
forty thousand not only movie professionals, critics, but also just

(25:14):
sort of influencers in life. So it was a pretty
good gauge of like what had been the best and
brightest in American film. And so many of Jimmy Stewart's
movies were in that top one hundred. So many of
the characters he had played were in a top one hundred.
He I actually think he got robbed, but he ended
up being voted number three male movie star all time.

Speaker 2 (25:36):
Do you think robbed movies?

Speaker 1 (25:38):
Well, okay, so do you think he should have been one?

Speaker 2 (25:40):
Number one?

Speaker 1 (25:40):
I would put I think a lot of people would
put him one, But it was Humphrey Bogart at number one,
Kerry Grant at number two. I think he should have
slipped in just above Kerry Grant. Interesting, you don't think so?

Speaker 2 (25:54):
Well? Okay? Are we talking like, first of all, this
poll was in the late nineties.

Speaker 1 (25:59):
This particular pole that name the AFI one hundred Stars
was I think two thousand and three.

Speaker 2 (26:03):
Okay, I'm sorry, but I think that Humphrey Bogart should
not be number one.

Speaker 1 (26:09):
Okay, that's for sure.

Speaker 2 (26:11):
And Carrie Grant, Okay, I could see it like top
five and Jimmy Stewart top five as well, But I
feel like, are we not missing other actors of that
like of all time, of all time? Really, we're gonna
put those guys on the on the top three?

Speaker 1 (26:25):
Yeah? Agree with?

Speaker 2 (26:28):
Oh, so you wouldn't say like Robert de Niro should
be No. Number two, number one? Now are you for serious?

Speaker 1 (26:38):
But Marlon Brando by the way, but it would be
interesting to hear the pole like the poll now, I
would like to see it include people Tom Hanks. We
need to reboot that cost right right? And I'm only
naming dudes, but uh, I mean Katherine Hepburn.

Speaker 2 (26:52):
Well, I thought we were talking about actors as an
actor male, not like in general.

Speaker 1 (26:56):
Yeah, let's stick to that for now. Yeah, let's just
keep that.

Speaker 2 (26:59):
Oh yeah, I mean we male female Lady's gonna take
number one.

Speaker 1 (27:03):
So I was a classic movie fan and uh, and
it was Hitchcock's movies that most grabbed me and made
me want to direct, largely because Hitchcock thought his job
was to number one thing was to manipulate the audience,
take them on an emotional journey. Whether they wanted to
or not. Of course they did. They started showing up
to Hitchcock movies because they wanted to be taken on
that crazy emotional, manipulative journey.

Speaker 2 (27:25):
And some of the best it's like just like we
life true crime now. Back in the day, people really
like to watch a for Hitchcock, like mysteriously disappear people.

Speaker 1 (27:33):
So I think I think it finally got dethroned. But
Vertigo for the longest time, year after year, would make
the top list in international yes polls of movies. And
that's Jimmy Stewart, such an interesting movie. Rear Window, you
know that's my favorite. Vertigo is your favorite movie? Yeah, well,
Rear Window might be mine.

Speaker 2 (27:53):
I know it's yours. And by the way, totally makes sense,
Like it so makes sense that that would be yours
and mine would be Vertigo.

Speaker 1 (28:00):
Hey, am I crazy? Or did that guy across the
way Murderer's wife?

Speaker 4 (28:04):
So?

Speaker 2 (28:05):
I mean, I love it that you love it. It's
very you like, It's very like Grace Kelly comes in
and out dressed beautifully like I feel like if you
were in a wheelchair in New York City, that's exactly
what you would want your experience in a wheelchair to be,
just like some beautiful fucking like my God is bringing
you sad?

Speaker 1 (28:20):
He's living in Greenwich Village. Yeah, yeah, he's a he's
a photographer. That's how he makes his living, traveling around
the world doing photography. Yes, yes, that's that girlfriend of his. Yes,
pretty pretty nice. Yeah, yeah, I.

Speaker 2 (28:35):
Totally get it. I mean, and by the way, who
doesn't want to live in New York City in that
life set like I love I love that. I love
that for us, and I love that.

Speaker 1 (28:41):
For you and me being a nerd. By the way,
I actually visited the block in Greenwich Village that Hitchcock
apparently went to that inspired that the rear windows set
up with the court.

Speaker 2 (28:51):
Tell me more, how come you never took me there
and the gislion years that we lived. No, you have
taken me to see way less interesting things that I
have rolled my eyes at.

Speaker 1 (29:03):
I think, honestly, my answer is that I would imagine
us hitting Greenwich Village and you having all these ideas
about cool things we could do in Greenwich Village, and
then me saying, hold on a second, come walk to
this courtyard that inspired Hitchcock eighty years ago.

Speaker 2 (29:17):
After nearly fifteen years, you still have so much to
learn about me. No, I love stuff like that. That's
like going to the sets at Universal, you know, and
getting on the steps of Sex and the City, like
you know, the fake steps or whatever.

Speaker 1 (29:33):
So rounding out the Jimmy Stewart Hitchcock thing rope. People
forget about rope, but you should check it out. It's
famous because it basically appears to be one long take
over the entire course of the movie with no cuts.
There are some mass cuts, I think every twelve minutes.
But oh man, and then people love Harvey.

Speaker 2 (29:52):
Like, oh, I've never watched Harvey.

Speaker 1 (29:54):
Okay, So I'm gonna be honest with you. I have
only watched it once back in the day, and I
need a refresher. But there are people who are like
when Jim Carrey talks about Jimmy Stewart. He always talks.

Speaker 2 (30:04):
About Wait, Jimmy Stewart was in Harvey.

Speaker 1 (30:06):
Jimmy Stewart.

Speaker 2 (30:08):
Was that his first Jimmy movie?

Speaker 1 (30:10):
It wasn't a Hitchcock movie. Oh okay, now I'm moving
out of Hitchcock. Oh okay to other Jimmy Stewart.

Speaker 2 (30:15):
That was confusing because Jimmy Stewart was a big part
of the Hitchcock legacy.

Speaker 1 (30:20):
Jimmy Stewart was a big part of the Hitchcock legacy,
and obviously maybe ten years before that really started for him,
he was in It's a Wonderful Life, which is iconic,
which he did right after he came back from World
War Two. Which in World War Two he was an
honest to god fighter pilot who won like every award
you can for bravery and saving lives. He was like

(30:43):
an actual true American anti fascist.

Speaker 2 (30:45):
Here he was like the real life for his Gump
right like he like he was a fire a pilot fighter.
He went to war. He made amazing movies with Alfred,
then he made this It's like what is your Life? Sir?

Speaker 1 (30:59):
And as like as like one of the great movie stars.
He actually didn't get married until he was forty. So
his daughter Kelly, who will meet, goes into a little
bit how he was known as the Great American bachelor,
like in the publicity at the time, because this guy
got around. You can imagine he was a huge male
movie star, doesn't get married till forty. He had his fun.

Speaker 5 (31:20):
Oh and.

Speaker 2 (31:22):
Geez, So he was when he was forty. What year
was that, So.

Speaker 1 (31:28):
This would have been early fifties, I think, so.

Speaker 2 (31:30):
It was wow. So he was considered quite an elder
in the fifties at forty. Yeah, because by forty in
the fifties, your kids were like in college.

Speaker 1 (31:39):
That's why they talked about it, right. They called him
like the Great American Bachelor, I think because of the
fact that at that point you were a little like
it was almost a little skivie.

Speaker 2 (31:49):
So you do you think he was like George Clooney
like how like everyone was like waiting for him to
get married kind of thing. It was like the same thing.

Speaker 1 (31:55):
Yeah, And then he meets Kelly's mom, who was in like,
I think an actress model and they and they stayed
together until she died in the nineties and he died
three years later. So they had this beautiful, long relationship
once he finally settled down and he had two daughters.
They were twins, only two biological children, and one of
them is Kelly Stewart Harcourt, who we're gonna get to
know today.

Speaker 2 (32:17):
I think it's so also we should re mention obviously.
If you want to know more about race connection to
It's a wonderful life, you should listen to episode ten
of George Bailey Was Never Born.

Speaker 1 (32:28):
Which is called Happy Ending, and you can find it
wherever you get your podcast. Maybe check it out on
Apple Podcasts and leave a review.

Speaker 2 (32:33):
And rating, Yes, leave a good review, Okay, whatever. Anyway,
So I guess where I'm getting to is that, like,
what does it what does it feel like to interview
the daughter of this actor and essentially person that is

(32:53):
part of your favorite movie of all time and that
you do a very funny committee impression of And it's
obviously like a very important person in your what would
you call it? In your passion for film and your interests?
And do you know what I'm saying? I like, let's
put it this way, if if I ever got to

(33:15):
just hang out for a day with Anthony Burdain's daughter,
like I would like like I would just yeah, I
would feel so I would just be like, oh my god, like, yeah,
I've never got into hang out with Anthony Burdaine. We
know and we know why, like that that's literally never
gonna happen now. But but wow, right, like if I
just got to ask her questions about her dad, like

(33:36):
and not super personal invasive questions because we're not friends
like that, but I'm just saying, like in general, like
tell me what you're what it was like to watch
your dad cook you breakfast? You know, things like that.

Speaker 1 (33:46):
No, I mean that that is a huge unexpected bonus
of the job we do is that sometimes you just
find yourself forming relationships with people that you're like wow.

Speaker 4 (33:57):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (33:58):
And in this case, over the course of this particular podcast,
I also Frank Capra, the director of the movie, who
I admire a lot because of his his ethos, and I.

Speaker 2 (34:11):
Think for the people you should mention other movies that
Capra has.

Speaker 1 (34:14):
Directed, I don't think. So, I don't think do it
do it.

Speaker 2 (34:18):
For the youngins or the people who don't know people
don't know directors like if you're but.

Speaker 1 (34:22):
If you're too young, but I understand, But if you're
too young to know Frank Capra. I don't think you're
going to give a crap that he also made It
Happened One Night, which one was the first movie to
win the five Oscars in the five major categories.

Speaker 2 (34:37):
Yeah, but you should. You should. You should talk about
that because just mention, just name drop it, like like
other movies that he's done, only because people are really
bad with names, and people do not really pay attention
to director names.

Speaker 1 (34:48):
I think probably the movie that people would most know
other than It's a Wonderful Life these days would be
mister Smith Goes to Washington. You at least know the name.

Speaker 2 (34:56):
I love that movie. And that's a Jimmy Stewart movie.

Speaker 1 (34:58):
It's another Jimmy Stewart. It's a beautiful ones. So Jimmy
did these great films in the thirties and forties with
Frank Capra, after Capra's career tanked because of the failure
of It's a Wonderful Life, which we go into and
George Bailey was never born in detail, you know, basically,
Jimmy makes the jump largely to Alfred Hitchcock. He did
some westerns. I'm not that into westerns.

Speaker 2 (35:20):
Myself, so you know, back in the day after you
turned forty, you're so old. You were considered too old
for Hollywood. So they so the Westerns was a movement
where they'd put all the quote unquote old actors in
and they did it with women too. You know, a
lot of the famous like Hollywood Starlet's ended up in
these like b spaghetti western movies.

Speaker 1 (35:38):
Okay, but I think you're thinking of that wrong. Like
westerns had a Westerns were a dominant genre in the
way that almost comedy might.

Speaker 2 (35:46):
You know, or they were, but there were two categories.

Speaker 1 (35:50):
Superhero movies might be considered today like they were everywhere
legit people went and saw them. They were hugely successful,
but there.

Speaker 2 (35:57):
Were still categories of westerns. There were the Clint Eastwood
western type and then there were like the ridiculous silly.

Speaker 1 (36:05):
And my problem with you bringing up the B movie
westerns is that it seems to imply that Jimmy Stewart
got stuffed because he was older in these. So you're
given the wrong sense. This guy was huge and successful
through the end of the seventies. He wasn't doing be westerns.
He was doing like Big Ones with John Wayne, he
was doing the Man Who killed Liberty Valance is one

(36:26):
of the best ones. At the very end of his career.
He was in the last John Wayne movie while John
Wayne was dying of cancer. He plays a cowboy dying
of cancer who essentially comes to this town to try
to get his enemies to shoot him so he doesn't
have to suffer a long cancer death. And it's got
Ron Howard in it. It's called The Shootest. If anyone

(36:46):
hasn't seen it, I would recommend it. Its late seventies,
so it's got that like Godfather modern kind of you
know thing.

Speaker 2 (36:53):
Oh my god, can we manifest an interview with Ron Howard?

Speaker 1 (36:57):
Well, he and I might have issues with each other
because the documentary The Supermodels for Imagine Entertainment left out
some of our team members' names and the credits, which
is something we're currently trying to get resilved.

Speaker 2 (37:13):
Don't think Ron is personally responsible for that.

Speaker 1 (37:16):
I think I don't think.

Speaker 2 (37:17):
I don't think he's looking at a list of names
and going not that one. A little busy for that.

Speaker 1 (37:23):
Me and Opie we got a little gross bat coming up.

Speaker 2 (37:26):
So in a nutshell, what the hell was it like
to now have a relationship with Kelli Stewart.

Speaker 1 (37:34):
All right, so nuts, I wanted to tell this story
because in the interview we go into it just to
touch but you know, there's you mentioned kind of where
we're at in the in the business, and the fact
is we have crawled our way up solidly to the
middle of not of the non fiction.

Speaker 2 (37:52):
Oh, we are definitely on the deal list.

Speaker 1 (37:54):
We are, Yeah, exactly were we are.

Speaker 2 (37:58):
Non fiction profession honestly D is gracious.

Speaker 1 (38:02):
It's like, no, I think we're solidly D, but we're D.
So uh so the thing is that, like, but the
problem is right that I don't know. Last year we
went to the news and doc Emmy's hadn't had a
nomination for a Barbara Coopple film called Desert One. We
made an announcement that we'd gotten that NAACP Image Award
nomination for our first podcast with iHeart After the Uprising,

(38:24):
which you can find wherever you get your podcast. So
the point is people see that stuff on social media
or they hear about that and there, and and if
they're not in the business, they're like, oh, you guys
are like probably rolling in money. Yeah, you know, you're very.

Speaker 2 (38:36):
You don't you don't need my support you don't need
me to like your Yeah.

Speaker 1 (38:39):
Yeah, in fact, I hate you. I kind of hate you.

Speaker 2 (38:42):
It's not even that I hate you, it's just that
like you don't.

Speaker 1 (38:44):
Need me, yeah whatever, just yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We
need you, by the way, we need we know we
need you, we need your support.

Speaker 2 (38:50):
Not only do we need you, but we we enjoy
you and we want you.

Speaker 1 (38:53):
So like at the top levels, like you go to
I go to pitch a project to Netflix and they're
like like, hey, we love we love what you've shot.
This is amazing. We'd like to make this movie. Of course,
we're not gonna make it with you directing it. How
much do you need to let us replace you with
somebody who matters. So at the top, we're constantly getting
beat up, right, and then from the bottom we're getting

(39:15):
a lot of like, hey, you probably made a lot
of money off that Gumbo Coalition thing. Can you share
a little with us? I participated for a year, and
it's like, dude, we didn't. We're not making any money,
and no we're not definitely not sharing any with participants.
But so my point is that you you're just considered
a scuzzy media guy. These days, it's there's no love
for like, oh wow, you have this storytelling craft that

(39:39):
you're part of, and yeah, documentary, and it's it used
to be thought of in a certain way when you
were Barbara and young Barbara Kopple, you'd be the toast
of the Manhattan parties. You're not gonna make a lot
of money, but you'll be treated seriously because you do documentaries.
Now it's like now it's like, you know, screw you basically.

Speaker 2 (39:56):
And so I say this has changed, you know, it's
it's not so much, especially in year niche, which is
documentary and full of academics and intellectuals and more serious people.
Even that sector has I think been overly influenced by
popularity and numbers and social media and foul you know
what I mean. It's like the whole thing that ever

(40:17):
since influencers and et cetera, and never struggle with, like ever.

Speaker 1 (40:20):
Since Michael Moore made it seem like it's like a
hit based thing, and then all the streamers started just
doing a zillion of them. It's I think it's probably
thought that it's a more successful situation or profession or
art than it is. But I bring all this up
because it's just hard out there because you're struggling to

(40:41):
finish this thing that you liked, and you hope it's
going to be good, and you hope somebody's gonna dig it,
and everybody's just treating you like an asshole. And so
this is what happened. This is my story about Kelly
Stewart Harcourt Is is a couple of weeks before George
Bailey was Never Born was going to be released, and
we still were trying to finish episode ten, get the
legal done, the insurance, a million things that we were

(41:02):
tearing her. Would we make the deadline and release it
on the twenty first where we fall on our faces.
And in the middle of this, I wanted to do
the right thing and send a message to all of
the major participants in the podcast, about one hundred people,
and I did individually and said, here's the trailer, hope
you like it, here's the episode you'll find yourself in.
And I got this message back that night, and I'm

(41:23):
gonna outer her. I'm gonna go ahead, and because you know,
this is the kind of podcast I wanted to.

Speaker 2 (41:27):
Be burning bridges.

Speaker 1 (41:29):
Yeah, well I'm a bridge burner. But if you listen
to this podcast, you're gonna hear stories like this, right. So,
Donna Reid, who played Mary and It's a Wonderful Life,
iconic actress alongside Jimmy Stewart in that movie. Donna Read's daughter,
Mary Owen, interviewed.

Speaker 2 (41:44):
Oh, I named me her by her first a middle name.

Speaker 1 (41:47):
It was interesting she had the name Mary. I actually
always wondered if it was after the character from It's
a Wonderful Life that she had played. But anyway, Mary
Owen so Mary though. So here's the backstory. I'd met
her at the Seneca Falls Festival a year before that.
I approached her saying, we're doing a podcast on this subject.
Would you want to participate? She's like, sure, probably hit
me up after the fest. So I send her a text.

(42:08):
I still have these texts, so I know, like I
re reviewed them to make sure I wasn't crazy, And
it essentially was, hey, do you want to come on
the Wonderful Life podcast? We'll record it and you know,
and she said sure. We set it up. She jumps
on a zoom. When you join the zoom, you get
a little voice that tells you you are being recorded.
We do ninety minutes. They were it was a beautiful conversation.

(42:31):
She was very nice, and you know, at the end,
I said, basically, I'll let you know when this is
coming out. So cut to this two weeks before the
podcast is coming out, and she texts me back and
she says, wow, you you you know, release these parts
of my or you're releasing these parts of my interview
and your podcast without like running the you know, any
of it past me. Not very professional. And I texted

(42:56):
back like I was like, so, what I was really
thinking was what do you are? You nuts? You sat
down for a recorded podcast interview? You think we got
to run the lines past you right at the end. Yeah,
before Like we're journalists, we're not running the fact check you.
We might send a little fact check. Is this an
accurate way to describe you, like this thing that happened

(43:17):
to you or whatever? But no, I'm not gonna We're
not running all the lines past you again to make
sure you're still in now that we've spent six months
cutting them, Like it's.

Speaker 2 (43:27):
Just so no better, Like is she not? Is she
part of show business? Or no? Oh okay, so she
doesn't know bet.

Speaker 1 (43:33):
She lives in Okay, okay, So but.

Speaker 2 (43:36):
Just because you live in Iowa doesn't mean that you're
not sevy in the enter tomb business. I mean, we
live in Indiana.

Speaker 1 (43:41):
I'm not one that she but no, she's I think
she moved back to Donna Reed's home time. You know what,
Actually I don't know that she lives in Iowa. She
spends a lot of time out there, because the Donner.

Speaker 2 (43:49):
Point is that she was salty about her She was
salty and I don't know, and yeah, like like that
doesn't make any sense.

Speaker 1 (43:55):
And I went and I sent her pictures of our
like text exchange from when we set up the interview
and just kind of like sorry, if I got something.

Speaker 2 (44:02):
Oh would I would understand if it was like a
salicious interview about her mom and right like if Donna
Reid had been like in a sex tape scandal or something.
You guys, we're talking about it. But it was literally
talking about like the most wholesome character of all time.

Speaker 1 (44:15):
It's a podcast about it's a wonderful life. I had
hoped that unlike my Black Lives Matter podcasts or my
like war on Tarry human rights abusers stuff, that this
would be that this would not be, that this would
be so with positivity. So this whole story is to
say that Donna Reid's daughter bums me out, and I'm like, man,
I hope this isn't going to be the kind of
feedback I get from everybody. And I come home. It's

(44:36):
one am. I'm tired. I pop a beer. I'm sitting
on the porch. I'm just trying to basically drink this
beer and go to sleep. And I check my phone
and what's waiting for me is an email back from
Jimmy Stewart's daughter, Kelly Stewart Harcourt, and I open it
up and you'll hear me read it to her during
the interview. But she was so supportive. She recognized how
much work had to have been involved in this. She

(44:58):
recognized that from the tra we seem to be trying
to reinvent things about this movie. Your father was in
for a new generation, and how exciting that was. It
was such a nice message. Yeah, So when we were
talking about who would be our first guest, and knowing
that that a lot of our initial listeners away from.

Speaker 2 (45:19):
Before you go on, is that not the perfect example
of what show business is like? Like literally, one day
you're someone's just like you suck you know, f you whatever,
and then like an hour later something like a Kelly
Stewart message or just like okay, okay, yeah, there's hope
and faith in this and in this industry, Like I

(45:40):
can't keep going. I should keep going.

Speaker 1 (45:41):
It's like it's a psychologically abusive profession because just enough
stuff happens, like hey, you're nominated for the News and
doc Emmy, you're gonna get to go and for the
third time, you're gonna get to go and attend, you know,
in Manhattan and all dressed up and feeling like a star.
So that will get you through another year of you know,
barely making what you need to make and getting rejected

(46:05):
by every you know everyone. Yeah, it's so funny, like
every project you pitch.

Speaker 2 (46:10):
Just be like, no, I think what people should know.
And this is like a fun fact, right, Like an
insider's note into two listeners is that accolades don't equal money.
Like whether you're an Oscar winner, a lifetime achiever or whatever, whatever,
it doesn't necessarily mean that you are like banking and

(46:31):
been getting a bunch of deals and contracts and having
that stuff.

Speaker 1 (46:34):
One project drop on Apple TV, and a month later
another one drop on Max and a month later another
one drop on iHeart doesn't actually ensure that your your
rent is set for next year. It really doesn't strange.

Speaker 2 (46:46):
But you chose this business, Ray.

Speaker 1 (46:48):
I didn't know the realities of it.

Speaker 2 (46:50):
Yes, it did. We chose this business. We know the
hardships and reality we've been in it. We just refuse
to say.

Speaker 1 (46:58):
Die, I can't stop now. I mean, what else would
I do? What am I going to go become a
banker like you would be a.

Speaker 2 (47:04):
Terrible banker, by the way, you would be terrible.

Speaker 1 (47:08):
So anyway, when we were thinking of who our first
guest should be, we realized a lot of the audience
for our first episode would probably be coming off of
George Bailey was never born. It's currently December, it's Christmas time.
We thought, who's the biggest person we could think of
or the most interesting from that, and we thought the
daughter of George Bailey herself, the daughter of Jimmy Stewart Kelly,

(47:29):
who who you'll hear in this podcast is a super
sweet and interesting person, an anthropologist who did work in
Africa with gorillas.

Speaker 2 (47:36):
And that's so cool.

Speaker 1 (47:38):
Yeah, total, that's awesome.

Speaker 2 (47:39):
And this is a solo interview with Ray and Kelly.
And in the future, you and I might interview someone,
or I might just interview someone. There are schedule conflicts.
I have a full time nine to five on top
of working for ourselves, so there are times when I
can't make interviews. But I was not able to make

(48:00):
this last one. But I'm glad that you did it
with just Kyllie and you because you obviously have more
of a relationship and more to say about the film
and et cetera, et cetera. So can't wait to listen
to the interview.

Speaker 1 (48:12):
Well, listen right now, all.

Speaker 2 (48:13):
Right, let's do this.

Speaker 1 (48:14):
So the one of the greatest actors of all time,
Hollywood star Jimmy Stewart's daughter, Kelly Stewart hardcore.

Speaker 6 (48:22):
Hey, Rady, this is Kelly.

Speaker 1 (48:23):
Hey Kelly, thanks so much for doing this. Not at all,
not at all, It's real. It continues to be a
real thrill to you know, be communicating with you and
all that good stuff. And you know, at the top
of the podcast, I sort of told this story about
It was a few weeks ago, and I you know,
we had done so many volunteer hours basically, you know,

(48:45):
to try to get the George Bailey Was Never Born
podcast to a place where it was good, and the
tenth episode was still being cut, and I was dealing
with legal and all this stuff, and I sent this
series of emails and messages to people who had participated,
letting them know, you know, the trailers dropped, hope you
like it. Here's where you can find yourself in the episode.

(49:05):
And the first message I got back was this really
kind of slightly mean spirited thing and and it just
really put me in a funk.

Speaker 7 (49:15):
Oh no, no, that's terrible.

Speaker 1 (49:19):
No, but it's got a good ending because I pop
a beer and I'm sitting on the porch just kind
of like get you know, getting ready to go to sleep,
and I'm in this funk and I and I and
I open an email on my phone and it's from you,
and I want to read it. And it says, Hello, Ray,
what great news, the result of your hard work. What
an amazing modern twist on a classic. I love having
dad George Bailey appealing to this new age. I will

(49:40):
let people know exclamation mark. I can't wait to listen
to it. All the best, many cheers, Kelly. And it
just it was It's such a small thing, but I
you know, I just want you to know that your
kindness like really elevated me in that moment.

Speaker 8 (49:53):
Yes, as I said, it's you know, it's wonderful. I mean,
how how many people can say that their father continues
to be known and loved long after he is gone
and that's because of this project like this that carry

(50:15):
on his legacy really and legacy of making that kind
of movie.

Speaker 1 (50:20):
Well whatever it was about your dad. You know, sometimes
people have this perception because they watch a bunch of
movies with somebody that they know them, and of course
that's just not the case. But I mean, all those
movies I watched with your dad and then some of
his appearances on things like The Tonight Show, a lot
of people felt like they did know him. And whatever
it was that I connected with about him through his

(50:42):
work and his you know, public persona, I felt like
was coming through, like had clearly gone to you and
came through in that message.

Speaker 7 (50:50):
And so how sweet of you, How sweet of you.
We're staying with dear friends in England and there were
wondering sakeld listen to it on Spotify.

Speaker 1 (51:04):
You know what what we did do is we uploaded
the YouTube, so they could almost certainly find it there.
I don't believe it'd be blocked.

Speaker 6 (51:11):
Oh okay, yeah, okay, okay, great.

Speaker 1 (51:15):
I wanted to ask, actually, what's the what like cliche
question do you always get asked? So I can avoid
embarrassing myself by asking it, I think the.

Speaker 7 (51:23):
Question I mostly get asked is what was it like
growing up the gym there is? It was not like
growing up with a movie star. He was he was
my dad, and it was a very normal life. And
in those days there weren't Papa Rozzi.

Speaker 4 (51:41):
You know.

Speaker 7 (51:41):
Dad never brought his work through the house into the house.
He left it. He left his work at the front door,
and he came in the house and he was he
was dead. So that that's the answer. That's the question
I get the most often, And that's that's the answer.

Speaker 1 (51:55):
So I mean, by way a background for for the audience,
I guess he was known as the Great American bachelor
for many years. It seems like he meets your mom
Gloria about four years after, about three years after, it's
a wonderful life comes out, or at least he marries her, right,
and then you and your twin sister come along shortly thereafter.

Speaker 7 (52:14):
Yeah, and mom. Mom came with two sons from a
previous marriage. So in Dad was a bachelor till he
was what forty, and then in the space of a
little over a year, he had four kids.

Speaker 1 (52:29):
He did so well by Hollywood, Like, I know, a
lot of people have weird Hollywood experiences, but he obviously
had whateveryone maybe dreams the experience will be when they
pursue Hollywood. So why was it that he You know,
nowadays it's sort of gone more of the Kardashian way,
where you'd make your entire family famous. But he discouraged

(52:50):
y'all from a Hollywood life.

Speaker 9 (52:52):
He didn't really discourage I guess he did sort of.
He thought. He knew it was a hard business to
get intoly for young women, and he didn't want to
see us have to struggle like that, so he said,
let's put it this way. He didn't encourage us to
go into show business, and none of.

Speaker 6 (53:17):
Us ever really wanted to.

Speaker 9 (53:21):
It was never our dream to get into movies, none
of us.

Speaker 10 (53:27):
Why do you think that was.

Speaker 9 (53:31):
Well, I remember visiting the set once and I can't
remember what movie it was. It might have been the
man who shot Liberty Balance. It was before that, and
all I could notice. All that really hit me was
how everybody was fussing around you all the time.

Speaker 6 (53:56):
There were lights, there was.

Speaker 9 (53:57):
You know, people doing stuff with your faith, and then
there would be this tiny bit of action, and then
everything would stop and everybody would come around and fuss
with you again, and it just looked so boring. It
just didn't look like a lot of fun. And so
it just never the idea that never grabbed any of us.

(54:20):
I mean, my sister and I liked putting on plays
at school and you know that sort of stuff, but
the idea of making a career out of it, certainly
the idea of going into the movies just didn't grab us.
And I think my parents were both grateful.

Speaker 1 (54:42):
Now, I have to admit that the thing that I
find most interesting to talk with you about is maybe
not what the general audience might want to hear from
this your history as an anthropologist. I wonder if you
might tell me what you're proudest about there, because to me,
you going out to Africa and working with Gorilla and
working with some of these other great anthropologists is just incredible.

Speaker 9 (55:03):
Now, that was a dream, but that was completely inspired
by my parents.

Speaker 11 (55:08):
Our parents had friends, a couple the Johnsons that lived
in Fort Worth, Texas, who were real outdoors people. That
really got mom and dad into sort of exploring wild
places and fishing, and they did some hunting, and then
they took us on a wildlife safari when my sister

(55:28):
and I were fourteen, and that sort of set me
on a path because it was we were just we
were so bowled over by being around wild animals like that.
We were cay. It was nineteen sixty four, it was
a while ago. It was when stuff was still you know,

(55:52):
it wasn't packed with tourist buses and things. And this
was in Kenya and Tanzania in the and so so
that set me. That set me on my path. And
then my mother got interested in human evolution and she
joined the Leaky Foundation, and Lewis Leakey, as you might know,

(56:13):
dug Up Fossils, was very famous anthropologist who found our
millions of years old, our earliest ancestors in East Africa.
And Mom got me interested in evolution, in the anthropology
side of it as opposed to just the wild animal
side of it. So I did anthropology in college. I

(56:36):
was a physical anthropologist in college, and I took some
biology lessons biology classes on the side. And then on
another trip to Africa, our parents met Richard Leaky, who
was Lewis Leaky's son, who took and showed us the dig.

Speaker 6 (56:57):
That he was doing with all these ancient fossils.

Speaker 11 (57:01):
And through that connection, I went and dug up fossils
with him in this remote area of northern Kenya. All
my summers when I was in college, that's what I
would do in the summer, I would go and dig
up fossils with Richard Leaky. So I was thinking, well,
I want to be a I want to be a
bone person, you know.

Speaker 6 (57:20):
I want to go and I want to.

Speaker 11 (57:22):
Discover the oldest, the oldest ancestor ever. And then on
another trip to Africa, I joined Mom and Judy. Dad
was making Cheyenne social clubs that he couldn't come, and
my mother was supposed to be She was in this
TV show called American Sportsman.

Speaker 6 (57:43):
Did you ever see that?

Speaker 11 (57:45):
No, it's probably way before your time. Anyway, American Sportsmen
would take celebrities and they would go with somebody who.

Speaker 6 (57:54):
Went marlin fishing, or there we go with somebody who.

Speaker 11 (57:57):
Was studying birds in Ethiopia something like that, but there
was always sort of a celebrity attached to it and
a local person who knew what they were doing. And
mom was to go and see gorillas in what was
then called Zaire, now called Democcratic Republic of Congo. And
so we all got there and the mountains were very high.

(58:18):
I was about eight thousand feet and my mother couldn't
do it. She just found it really exhausting and hard
to breathe. So I took her place. So I made
this not very good TV show about going. I was
kind of this second tier celebrity to go and see

(58:39):
these gorillas, and that just made me think, well, this
is it. I have to get back here and I
want to study gorillas. I don't want to dig up fosses.
I want to study gorillas. So that's when I wrote
to Diane Fosse and she said, yes, you can come
and be a research assist, and which I did when

(59:02):
I graduated from college in nineteen seventy three, and that.

Speaker 6 (59:06):
That really, you know, the rest is history.

Speaker 11 (59:08):
After that, That's how I got into what was my
parents who started that whole thing, and they could not
they could not have been happier for me. And Mom
used to say, if I had to do it all over again,
I do just what you're doing.

Speaker 10 (59:23):
When was the last time you met to Africa?

Speaker 6 (59:27):
We were in Africa and something.

Speaker 11 (59:29):
I think it was two thousand and six, might have
been maybe a little maybe a bit later than that.
But the last time we did research there was a
long time ago. This is to visit and to go
to conferences more recently. But the last time we did
research was was.

Speaker 6 (59:47):
A while ago.

Speaker 8 (59:48):
That was.

Speaker 6 (59:50):
It was nineteen eighty seven something like that.

Speaker 10 (59:54):
Did you know Jane Goodall?

Speaker 11 (59:56):
I've met Jane good All several times at conferences. I
didn't I didn't work with her. I worked with Diane Fossey.
But I never went and saw James Chimps when she
was there. So I've never met her in I never
met her in the field, but I've met her at conferences.

Speaker 1 (01:00:14):
Who who is the animal you've had the closest relationship with.

Speaker 11 (01:00:21):
Well, I suppose you like certain gorillas, and you do.
I mean, that's really hard to say with gorillas because
the silver back, the guy that leads the group, he's important.
But then these little babies, there's certain ones with a
big personality, so you kind of like them. It's hard
to say, but you don't. I never felt like I

(01:00:44):
had a relationship with the gorilla. That's how it should
have been, right. I mean, we're looking at their natural behavior,
so you don't really want to be part of their
social group at all. The fact that they allowed us
to watch them was was a gift. But what to
want is for them to completely ignore you, which which
they did most of the time.

Speaker 1 (01:01:09):
And you say in I know you haven't heard all
the episodes, Yeah, but that in episode three of the
podcast we Hear, you talk a bit about what you
learned about about humanity and about people through those studies,
and you mentioned the idea that there really are no
that being a loner is not a natural human state,

(01:01:30):
that we're a super social species.

Speaker 10 (01:01:32):
What do you mean by that?

Speaker 3 (01:01:35):
What I mean by that is that I believe that
our even before we were our species, so millions ago,
millions of you know, one point eight million years ago,
before we were, before we were the species we are today,
we were social. We were Sociality is part of our

(01:02:00):
belief systems, our cultural systems, our social system, it's everything.

Speaker 6 (01:02:05):
It really is who we are.

Speaker 11 (01:02:08):
And you kind of learn that when you're with a
group of primates in the wild, because we are we're
part of the primate order and most primates are very
social and it just it just taught me that about humans.
And I have to say that that, to me is

(01:02:30):
one of the lessons of That's why It's a Wonderful
Life is a wonderful movie. That message comes across it.
It's a wonderful life. You know, it's it's not money
and it's not power. It's no man's a failure of

(01:02:50):
he has friends. And you know that there was that
study done. I can't remember when it came out a
couple of years ago, eighty years long study out of
Harvard followed eighty you know, followed people for eighty years,
and it was looking at the main factors contributing to happiness.

(01:03:12):
It was a happiness study, and several studies like this,
and they all come out with the key factor in
whether or not somebody is happy and sees themselves as
happy is whether they have strong social relationships and a
network that they can depend on. And no one who

(01:03:36):
studied wild monkeys and gorillas were surprised by that finding
about humans and that is what that's the message of
It's a wonderful life to me now, I mean through
the years as I've watched it, I've gotten different messages.
When I was nine and I saw it, and you know,

(01:03:57):
you get a different message at different stages of your life.
But that to me, now, that's the message I get
from It's a Wonderful life.

Speaker 10 (01:04:05):
Yeah, and it's the exact same for me.

Speaker 1 (01:04:06):
So you say something very similar in episode eight, which
we call the Creators Movie, and it really takes a
deep dive into your dad and Frank Capra and some
of the others, And yeah, it was really struck by
that because you say in the podcast that when you
watched it as a younger person, you thought it was
so tragic, poor young George Bailey never got to live
his dreams.

Speaker 10 (01:04:25):
And now it's different.

Speaker 11 (01:04:30):
Yeah, I felt really sorry for dad. When I was
young and I saw that film.

Speaker 10 (01:04:37):
I had the exact same experience as somebody who you know.

Speaker 1 (01:04:40):
I grew up in Indianapolis and I just always felt
like there was something out there that I could go
be a part of that I really was hungry to do,
and had I not been able to go pursue that,
it would.

Speaker 10 (01:04:51):
Have felt quite tragic to me. But it's funny.

Speaker 1 (01:04:54):
The movie is very much about growing up, I think,
and what that means to mature and really become a
true adult. And I think, as I've you know, reached
middle age, I see that movie very differently because, Yeah,
you put it perfectly in the podcast. It's the things
that maybe you want or you dream of selfishly, individualistically

(01:05:17):
in your youth don't necessarily mean as much as what
journey the universe chooses to take you on.

Speaker 11 (01:05:24):
Let's say, no, exactly, I agree, well said yeah. And
also it could be said that if George Bailey had
traveled the world and followed his dream, he might not
have ended up with as deeply satisfying a life as

(01:05:46):
he did by staying in Bedford Falls, he might not
have affected as many lives, which at the end of
the day is all part of that social network thing.

Speaker 1 (01:06:00):
So I'm actually kind of curious, going back to your
youth and your teen years, could you describe what was
the Stewart family Christmas like, what were you're in did
you tend to celebrate on Christmas Eve or Christmas Day?

Speaker 10 (01:06:11):
When did you open the presents?

Speaker 6 (01:06:13):
You know, what did you watch we opened the presents.

Speaker 11 (01:06:16):
On Christmas morning, my sister and I would go down
and get our stockings that were.

Speaker 6 (01:06:20):
Hung up by the by in.

Speaker 11 (01:06:23):
The fireplace next to the tree, and then we'd go upstairs.
It was like one of the best mornings of the year.
We would go upstairs and open our stockings in bed.

Speaker 6 (01:06:32):
I was really a treat. And then we would.

Speaker 11 (01:06:37):
We would open our presence after after breakfast, and then
we would have a Christmas dinner and Christmas Eve. I
think mom and Dad often went out, often went out,
or sometimes we stayed. Sometimes we went to a Christmas

(01:07:01):
carol singing at the church. But Christmas Day was the biggie.

Speaker 10 (01:07:08):
Yeah. And watching watching a movie. I know a lot
of people now will watch a movie on Christmas. Was
that a thing?

Speaker 11 (01:07:15):
Yeah, we would get well, we gather around to watch
It's a Wonderful Life. Way back we would watch it
many Christmases. We watched It's a Wonderful Life after, probably
after Christmas dinner, maybe right before, but that would be
on Christmas Day.

Speaker 10 (01:07:36):
How did your dad?

Speaker 1 (01:07:37):
Because a lot of a lot of actors will say
they'd never again watch their performance after they give it
because they feel too awkward about it.

Speaker 10 (01:07:43):
I take it your dad was not like that.

Speaker 11 (01:07:46):
Well, he would watch it and be very silent, and
then all of all of a sudden, he'd say, I
don't think I should have done it like that. I
think it would have been better if I had waited,
you know, something really specific about the performance, so he
would look at it with a critical eye, but he

(01:08:10):
watched it.

Speaker 1 (01:08:13):
Now, I would think that your father may be one
of the most impersonated people ever. I feel it feels
like almost everybody at one point had a Jimmy Stewart impression.

Speaker 10 (01:08:24):
You almost went into yours just a second ago.

Speaker 11 (01:08:27):
Do you have a fake whenever I paraphrase it?

Speaker 6 (01:08:30):
It's really hard not to fall into that.

Speaker 10 (01:08:35):
Is there anyone that that is your favorite? That's your
dad impersonation?

Speaker 11 (01:08:41):
I think Rich little m pretty funny, and he was.
He was a good friend of Dad's too. He's pretty funny.
I think he might have been one of the best.
But you're right, there have been an awful lot.

Speaker 1 (01:08:56):
Dana Carvey, who just had a tragedy with his son
unfortunately the season, But I think he's He's definitely mine.

Speaker 10 (01:09:03):
He's probably the most well known.

Speaker 6 (01:09:05):
But yeah, yeah, what happened.

Speaker 1 (01:09:10):
You know his son passed at thirty two. I haven't
seen the details.

Speaker 11 (01:09:15):
That's tragic. That's so tragic. Dana Carvey did one of
the funniest takeoffs on Its Wonderful Life I've ever seen.

Speaker 1 (01:09:23):
Yeah, we we have it pretty close to the top
of the first episode. That that's how how I think
as many people as have seen the movie almost have
seen that SNL's kid.

Speaker 11 (01:09:34):
Yeah, and then he also has he also he's he
impersonates dad being on Johnny Carson and reading the poem
Dad wrote about our talk.

Speaker 6 (01:09:46):
That's a funny one too.

Speaker 10 (01:09:49):
Yeah, that's even though.

Speaker 1 (01:09:51):
Yeah, and you know, I've watched that and it's it
really is so touching. I guess in some ways it
feels very old fashioned.

Speaker 10 (01:09:58):
It would be hard to imagine.

Speaker 1 (01:10:00):
Because he doesn't. Your dad wasn't ironic about it whatsoever.
There was not like a hint of cynicism. It was
I wrote this, and I feel this, and now I'm
going to read this and I'm not going to apologize
for it was what I got.

Speaker 11 (01:10:13):
Yeah, and God, I'll never forget when he first read that,
we were in a hotel in Nairobi. He first read
it to me. We reread a hotel in Nairobi. I'd
been in Rwanda studying gorillas when the dog, when Bo died,
and so I got to Nairobi and Dad read that

(01:10:37):
poem out to me and Mom and my sister Judy,
and Mom started crying and Judy started crying, and I
was so mad.

Speaker 9 (01:10:50):
I said, thanks a lot, Dad, you want me to
throw myself off the balcony and then you could write
a poem about that too.

Speaker 11 (01:11:03):
Dare how dare you do this to us?

Speaker 10 (01:11:09):
That's funny?

Speaker 4 (01:11:10):
So he was.

Speaker 10 (01:11:12):
He was obviously an animal lover too.

Speaker 6 (01:11:15):
He was an animal lover, but.

Speaker 11 (01:11:17):
He considered the poem was a huge success and he
got that kind of reaction, and he's right, He's right.

Speaker 6 (01:11:24):
Every I mean, so everybody.

Speaker 11 (01:11:26):
People ask that poem, they say it helped them get
through the death of their animals.

Speaker 6 (01:11:30):
I mean, it's a wonderful, wonderful poem.

Speaker 10 (01:11:33):
Mm hmmm, uh yeah, we will. I know. Well we
lost our dog of ten years, Miles, a couple of
years now.

Speaker 4 (01:11:41):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (01:11:41):
And this is mess This is kind of a messed
up thing to say, because I've lost you know, family
members and things, but there's something so visceral about losing
a you know, a long time pet. And I don't
know why it takes you so hard in a way
that sometimes even a human loss doesn't.

Speaker 6 (01:11:59):
But yeah, you can't put it into words. You can't.
There's just no way to put it into words.

Speaker 11 (01:12:06):
But Dad wrote poems on a lot of occasions, and
most of them were all of them were hysterical, and
he would read them out to us when we were
on a holiday or so many.

Speaker 6 (01:12:21):
Ill mediated a real talent for that. Have you seen
his book is?

Speaker 11 (01:12:25):
Have you seen his book of poems?

Speaker 1 (01:12:29):
Yeah, I have to admit I haven't read through the
whole thing, but maybe i'll, uh just they're just hilarious.

Speaker 11 (01:12:34):
And to hear Dad read them was just one anyway.
That was always that was always a treat when Dad
would say I have a poem, Go oh good, another one?

Speaker 1 (01:12:48):
Well, I mean, so it's true. I don't know quite
where I'm going with this, but it strikes me. So
he was obviously an animal lover. You obviously fell a
connection to animals. People connected with your dad. There was
something about him that just made a massive amount of
people feel he was not was both a Hollywood star

(01:13:08):
and a regular guy like that they might have a
beer with to use a George W. Bush phrase, and and.

Speaker 10 (01:13:15):
Did he was he a people person?

Speaker 4 (01:13:17):
Though?

Speaker 10 (01:13:17):
How did did he? Did he seem to just really
love other humans? Or how would you or was he
more a little.

Speaker 1 (01:13:25):
More introverted at times or I don't know, how would
you describe it?

Speaker 11 (01:13:30):
He was he was very introverted. He was very private.
He was a very private man, and he he felt
this relationship with his fan base that he owed them
his life, he owed them his career. And I think

(01:13:55):
one reason Dad is loved is that he never left
his public down. And that was a huge thing for him.
It was never letting his public down and his military
service with his two huge sources of pride for him.

Speaker 1 (01:14:15):
Yeah, I was going to save military service for the
very end, which I guess we're approaching now. But you know,
I I without going into politics, I consider myself an
anti fascist, and I really, I really admire the people
of your dad's generation took a really strong stand to

(01:14:36):
make sure we continue to live in a world with
democratic values and all that good stuff.

Speaker 4 (01:14:41):
You said. He didn't he didn't tend to talk about
it that much.

Speaker 9 (01:14:45):
He didn't.

Speaker 11 (01:14:46):
He didn't talk about the war, and he did he
wanted to keep his celebrity in his Hollywood life separate
from his military service, and he so he it was
loathe to the idea of girl glorifying what he had
done in the war and what he had done for

(01:15:09):
the military, and so he just kept them completely separate.

Speaker 4 (01:15:19):
Yeah, it's just, yeah, I think it. You know, there
are certain actors who do very a very good job
of playing heroes, but they just kind of they are
who they are in their own personal, private lives. And
I think I think people who get really devoted to
someone who they've watched in movies over and over again

(01:15:40):
play a hero. It's knowing that they really were one
adds a certain something.

Speaker 11 (01:15:46):
Yes, yeah, yeah, And that's why part of Dad's appeal
is that he's he's He's real. I mean, he never
wasn't the kind of person or he never wasn't the
person that was portrayed in some form or another, you

(01:16:06):
know what I'm saying. I mean, he did have the
good qualities that made him a hero on a screen.
He really did have those qualities, and he was he
was very brave because it was his duty to be brave.
He wasn't I don't think he was naturally combative. He
wasn't naturally aggressive. He you know, he didn't go screaming,

(01:16:29):
yelling into the fights with his flashing sabers. He did
it because his country was asking him to do it.

Speaker 6 (01:16:39):
Yeah, and that's that's real. And he didn't want it.

Speaker 11 (01:16:45):
He didn't make a big deal out of it.

Speaker 4 (01:16:49):
Now and we'll we'll wrap up. And I really appreciate you. Yeah,
I noticed so. When the American Film Institute did a
series of polls of forty thousand people in the in
the film business as well as prominent Americans. You know,
your dad's movies, many of them ended up in the
top one hundred. You know, a number of his characters

(01:17:11):
he played ended up in like greatest Heroes. I think
he got robbed a little. He ended up number three
for all time greatest male movie star, after Humphrey Bogart
and Carry Grant. But I think that'd be a for
film fans. That's any of those three could easily you.

Speaker 11 (01:17:31):
Know, Wow, wow, number three, that's that's great. I mean,
it doesn't surprise me, but it's isn't it amazing? After
how long ago was he at the top of his game?

Speaker 4 (01:17:48):
Yeah? Yeah, I mean, and over multiple decades too. I
don't there's not that many people who get that. You know,
some people might be hot for ten years or something,
but to just make incredible movies from the right, iconic
movies from the thirties through the seventies. I liked one
of his last ones, The Shootest People.

Speaker 11 (01:18:09):
Oh yeah, maybe great film.

Speaker 6 (01:18:11):
Maybe great film.

Speaker 4 (01:18:13):
Yeah. And you know, Humphrey Bogart though, he played a
certain kind of guy. So I feel like if you
wanted to be a tough guy, you might look to
a Bogart movie and kind of be like, that's who
I want to be. And if you wanted to be
kind of a slick kind of a guy, you'd be
a carry grant. But like, yeah, with your dad, I
think it felt more like you could tell yourself, well,

(01:18:33):
that's the kind of guy I actually am.

Speaker 6 (01:18:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 11 (01:18:38):
Yeah, because he was real, Yeah, I think.

Speaker 4 (01:18:45):
Yeah. So when you when you watch his performances on
the screen, you feel a little bit like you're seeing
the guy that you knew.

Speaker 11 (01:18:52):
Yes, as a matter of fact, now that you mentioned that,
we're with dear friends in London and tonight after dinner
we're gonna watch Rear Wind.

Speaker 4 (01:19:00):
Ah.

Speaker 1 (01:19:02):
Yeah, it's funny because if you asked anybody in my youth,
they would have said, oh, Ray wants to be Alfred Hitchcock.

Speaker 4 (01:19:11):
That's his dream. And I haven't done I never ended
up making narrative films, and I haven't done anything remotely
like Alfred Hitchcock. But I think Rear Window was probably
the one I watched the most.

Speaker 11 (01:19:24):
Yeah, it's definitely. It's my favorite Hitchcock film of the
of the films that dad did with Hitchcock, probably my
favorite Hitchcock film, which Rear Window, Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:19:36):
For sure.

Speaker 1 (01:19:37):
And well, so I thought maybe we could actually end
on that real quickly. You know, I think a lot
of people, even if they haven't watched. Here's what struck
me while I was making the podcast. I felt like
I'm a millennial. A lot of people of my generation.

Speaker 4 (01:19:54):
I thought we grew up and you at least knew
the classics, and you'd probably watched one or the other.
If you were any kind of a film fan at all,
you made sure to watch some of those.

Speaker 5 (01:20:05):
And you know, yeah, see, I don't think I talked
to one gen Zor over the year and a half
we were doing the podcast who had seen a black
and white movie period.

Speaker 4 (01:20:16):
So I thought maybe everyone probably knows your dad in
one form or another, but they would you like to
recommend some movies? What do you are there? Three or five?
You might bring up that you think for somebody who
hasn't gone into the classics check out.

Speaker 6 (01:20:33):
I would say, well, I love Harvey.

Speaker 11 (01:20:38):
I loved Little Shop around the Corner, which isn't something
that a lot of people know about. Really, that's one
of my all time favorites. Little Shop around the Corner
Philadelphia story that he won the Academy Award for is always.

Speaker 6 (01:20:55):
A good one.

Speaker 11 (01:20:56):
Yeah, with Burn and Cara Grant, that's a good one.

Speaker 4 (01:20:59):
Oh man, the movie all holding their eyes.

Speaker 11 (01:21:05):
Yeah, and I probably a rear window.

Speaker 4 (01:21:10):
Yeah, Little Shop around the Corner that one got remade
as You've Got Mail? Is that right?

Speaker 1 (01:21:17):
Yes?

Speaker 4 (01:21:19):
Do you think Tom Hanks is the best modern actor?

Speaker 1 (01:21:23):
To point two as like, is there anybody that you
point to that might sort of fill that space that
your dad once did?

Speaker 4 (01:21:32):
Well?

Speaker 11 (01:21:34):
Yeah, I think Tom Hanks comes pretty close. I mean
in terms of the kind of actor he wasn't, the
kind of person he is, and the way that he
conducts himself. And you know, I have I have a
lot of a lot of respect and for Tom Hanks

(01:21:54):
and for the work he does.

Speaker 4 (01:21:57):
Yeah. Again, it's it's that same kind of phenomenon, where
as far as I can tell, it seems like the
real guy matches up pretty well to the best aspects
of the characters he plays.

Speaker 10 (01:22:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:22:11):
Yeah, Well, listen, Thank you so much. It's been really nice.

Speaker 11 (01:22:19):
It's been a pleasure. You know, it's been a pleasure.
It's always nice to talk to somebody. Thank you for
your interest. But for me to relive these things and
relive thinking about Dad and his films and his work
and living with them, it's always nice for me to

(01:22:39):
talk about it.

Speaker 4 (01:22:41):
Awesome.

Speaker 2 (01:22:43):
Everybody has a podcast. It's a production of true stories.
Visit true Stories dot you ask four more. Follow me
on Instagram at Ruth Vodka and at Veganish Vegetarian.

Speaker 1 (01:22:58):
Follow me on Twitter at Reina Vishelski r A Y
N O W O s I E L s k
I and on Instagram at big Play Ray twenty twenty three.

Speaker 2 (01:23:07):
Thank you for listening, and don't forget to subscribe and
give us an awesome review. Everybody has a podcast. It's
available wherever you listen to your podcast.

Speaker 4 (01:23:18):
You know you have to like.

Speaker 1 (01:23:18):
Encourage People Copyright twenty twenty three. True Stories Inc. See
you next week.

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