November 21, 2023 • 57 mins
The most controversial moment in It's a Wonderful Life for modern fans is the fate of George Bailey’s spouse Mary in the part of the multiverse in which he had never been born. An examination of Mary as the true hero of Bedford Falls leads to the stories of Donna Reed as unappreciated feminist, femme punk Zuzu’s Petals' Laurie Lindeen's “woman behind the man” relationship with the Replacements’ frontman and the most impactful effect of this holiday classic, the short story writer’s daughter’s success in using banking to bring more than 100 million out of poverty. Through conversations with influential women, from Washington Post’s gender columnist to a popular Vox television critic, from Seneca Falls’ Women’s Rights National Historic Park to our own “George Bailey” theme song writer and performer, a debate over Mary heats up – with ramifications for fixing our culture! SaveGeorgeBailey.com
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
George and Mary get married. You know, they're in the car.
They have to speak a lot of cast that they're
about to go, you.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Know, live it up in Europe, And how are we're
gonna do?
Speaker 3 (00:16):
We're gonna shoot the works a whole week in New
York a whole week and bring you to the highest hotels,
the oldest champagne, the richest caviar, the hottest music, and
the prettiest white.
Speaker 4 (00:27):
Wow.
Speaker 5 (00:28):
That does it?
Speaker 6 (00:29):
Then?
Speaker 7 (00:29):
What?
Speaker 4 (00:30):
Then?
Speaker 8 (00:30):
What?
Speaker 9 (00:30):
Honey?
Speaker 4 (00:31):
After that?
Speaker 8 (00:32):
Who cares?
Speaker 10 (00:33):
And then you know there's a run on the bank.
Speaker 8 (00:36):
My husband hasn't worked in over a year, and I
need money.
Speaker 4 (00:39):
How am I going to live until the bank opens?
Speaker 11 (00:41):
I got doctor Booster, Faith, I need ca.
Speaker 8 (00:43):
I can't hate that you're doing faith?
Speaker 4 (00:45):
I got Hey, how much do you need?
Speaker 6 (00:46):
Hey?
Speaker 4 (00:48):
I got two thousand dollars.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
And then Mary decides to give the money basically to
the people who just gave them the money.
Speaker 10 (00:55):
They just got married.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
You know, even if George went through what he went
through with Clarence, I don't think he would have made
it even halfway there without Mary's support and you know,
her not being praised by anything. I mean, if Mary
hadn't been there, I don't know if George would have
made it, to be honest with her without Clarence.
Speaker 10 (01:13):
She's a big you know, the hero of this movie.
You know, it's one thing to get an angel to
come down on.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Your shoulder and stuff whatever.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
She you know, she's basically there like listening him off,
supporting him, you know, trying to make everything in the
background go as coolly as possible. Yeah, I don't think
there would have been a George without Mary.
Speaker 12 (01:30):
And vice versa.
Speaker 10 (01:32):
You want me and.
Speaker 8 (01:43):
The friend stage.
Speaker 13 (01:45):
I know that without the whisper to jo bed.
Speaker 8 (01:58):
George b poptiy, I die.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
I really believe that you know the best songs, you
have to be genuine and write what you know.
Speaker 14 (02:05):
Carolyn Sills wrote and performs the song you hear at
the start of every episode George Bailey.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
And to me, that doesn't always mean like your feelings.
It could be an experience that is dear to you
or something that you've just loved your whole life. And
so when I started thinking about Christmas and what could
I write about, I mean immediately I thought, you know,
it's wonderful life and George Bailey, and then that was
interesting too, just thinking, Okay, well, how do I write
a song about that movie? I don't want to just
like retell the story, so I kind of needed a
(02:32):
spinet on it. And the first thing that popped into
my head was, you know, George Bailey, I love you
till the day I die, which is Mary has whispers
to him when he spent over the gowers, you know,
Pharmaceus making him a soda.
Speaker 11 (02:43):
Clp so.
Speaker 8 (02:51):
Jo, Yeah, Christmas, you like miss.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Wants to travel, he wants to build skyscrapers, and to him,
you know what's even bigger if there's the moon, hecasually
would do anything for her. And the beautiful part of
that is how she doesn't. You know, she doesn't want
to go out and do all these big things. She
just wants to have a nice, happy, comfortable life with
him in their little town that they have been in
since day one.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
I just I love her spirit. I love you know
how strong she is.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
I mean, she's I think she's a stronger character than George,
just in her ability to be able to handle everything
that's going on.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
So yeah, it's definitely definitely her story. I'm trying to
put myself in her shoes, Christmas, if.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
You make me rise.
Speaker 8 (04:15):
Lie.
Speaker 15 (04:16):
Oh.
Speaker 12 (04:21):
I wonder if he hadn't been in the picture, whether
Mary might have have found another another career or life
path in a serving profession.
Speaker 14 (04:34):
Monica Hisss writes about gender and its impact on society
for The Washington Post, including one article headlined Mary Bailey
is the true hero of It's a Wonderful Life Lake.
Speaker 12 (04:47):
Would she have been the brilliant art teacher who inspired
generations of students and whose family became the students that
had the students that she had inspired, and who upon
her retirement, the entire town would have come out to celebrate.
(05:09):
And she would have, you know, gone several times a
year into the city to see Broadway shows, and she
would have introduced culture, and she would have introduced like
beauty and interesting discussions to the people she met. I
could really easily see that kind of life for her.
Speaker 4 (05:29):
Buffalo girls, can't you come up to my?
Speaker 2 (05:32):
Can't you come up to my?
Speaker 4 (05:33):
Can't you come out tonight? Buffalo girls, can't you come
out tonight? Okay, then I'll throw her off at the
old Grandville House. Oh no, I love that old house. No,
(05:54):
you see, you make a wage and then try and
break some glass and you've got to be a pretty
good shot nowadays.
Speaker 16 (05:57):
To George, it's full of Roman said, old place, I'd
like to live in it.
Speaker 4 (06:03):
In that place I wouldn't live in as a ghost.
Speaker 14 (06:06):
Many Wonderful Life fans have posited this moment as the
one in which Mary doom George to a life in
Bedford Falls. If you believe in wishes, were you going.
Speaker 13 (06:18):
To throw a rock?
Speaker 4 (06:24):
Hey, that's pretty good?
Speaker 12 (06:26):
What'd you wish?
Speaker 17 (06:27):
Mary? H?
Speaker 4 (06:32):
Hello? Girls, can't you come out to me?
Speaker 8 (06:34):
Can't you come out?
Speaker 4 (06:35):
Come out to ride?
Speaker 12 (06:37):
She didn't need travel, she didn't need adventure. She needed George.
And that's that's very clear from the beginning. What she
needed to be happy was George. What George needed to
be happy, or what he thought he needed, was a big,
(06:58):
grand life, and he sacrificed that.
Speaker 4 (07:01):
What does did you want?
Speaker 3 (07:02):
Mary?
Speaker 5 (07:03):
What do you want?
Speaker 14 (07:05):
You want the moon?
Speaker 4 (07:06):
Just say the word and I'll throw a lasshole around
and pull it down. Hey, that's a pretty good idea.
I'll give you the moon, Mary, I'll take it.
Speaker 17 (07:15):
We believe that Mary is actually the real key character,
and it's a wonderful life. If it weren't for Mary,
George would be done.
Speaker 14 (07:22):
You remember Kelly, the owner of Drink Like a Girl,
hosting that beer tasting in Seneca Falls in an earlier episode.
Speaker 17 (07:31):
And George is the main character, right, it was Mary
who pulled everything together. It was Mary's empowerment that said,
all right, I'm going to pick up my bootstraps while
he's going crazy with the angel and take care of things.
And like, if it weren't for Mary, he would have
lost everything. So for me, Mary could pull her own
moon down. So our logo is Mary lasting the moon herself,
(07:51):
and the moon is holding one glass of wine in
one pint of beer, and hence it's wonderful tasting blending
women own breweries and women old wineries together today.
Speaker 12 (08:02):
So when I watched the movie, I spend it alternating
between wanting to ring George's neck, like just stop complaining
and look at this amazing life you have, but also
feeling a deep empathy for the fact that it's not
the life he wanted.
Speaker 14 (08:20):
Monica his he.
Speaker 12 (08:22):
He did have to sacrifice, and so he has to
go through more of a journey to accept where he's
at than than Mary had to go through.
Speaker 10 (08:32):
Did you know that.
Speaker 8 (08:32):
Mary had just back from school, came back three days ago.
Nice girl, Mary, kind that I'll help you find the answers. George,
can you give me one good reason why you shouldn't
call on Mary?
Speaker 4 (08:49):
Sure? Sam Wine?
Speaker 18 (08:50):
Right?
Speaker 4 (08:51):
Yeah, Sam's crazy.
Speaker 8 (08:52):
Or she's not crazy about him?
Speaker 6 (08:54):
Well, how do you know?
Speaker 15 (08:55):
Now?
Speaker 4 (08:55):
Why would she discuss it with?
Speaker 19 (08:57):
Well?
Speaker 6 (08:57):
Then how do you know?
Speaker 20 (08:57):
Oh?
Speaker 8 (08:58):
My god, ies haven't died. She lights up like a firefly.
Whenever you're around beside Sam Wayne Wright's away in New
York and you're here in Bedford falls An all share
and love and war.
Speaker 6 (09:11):
I don't know war.
Speaker 12 (09:15):
Oh, it's so infuriating. It's so infuriating because if you
watch the scene where Hello.
Speaker 4 (09:21):
Sam, how are you?
Speaker 13 (09:24):
I'm great.
Speaker 6 (09:24):
It's good to hear your voice again.
Speaker 8 (09:26):
Oh that's awfully sweet of you.
Speaker 4 (09:29):
Sam.
Speaker 16 (09:30):
There's an old friend of yours here, George Bailey.
Speaker 4 (09:33):
Yes, old Moss back George. Just a minute, I'll call him, George.
Speaker 8 (09:40):
George, Sam wants to speak to you.
Speaker 12 (09:43):
They're in Mary's living room and there crowded around the
telephone and they're talking to Sam Waynwright.
Speaker 4 (09:50):
All right, Sam, Well hell George Baileyofsky, Eh, fine, pair
you are What are you trying to do? Is steal
my girl, or what do you mean. Nobody's trying to
steal anybody's girl. Here's Mary.
Speaker 12 (10:02):
What you see is not Mary trying to keep George there.
What you see is George wrestling with the idea that
he wants these big things.
Speaker 4 (10:13):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 12 (10:17):
But he's also fallen in love with Mary. And that's
not Mary's faults. That's about life, that's about adulthood. That's
about realizing that the plans that you've made for yourself
you can have a wrench thrown in them.
Speaker 4 (10:34):
You listen to me, I don't want any plastics, and
I don't want any ground floors, and I don't want
to get married ever at anyone. You understand that I
want to do what I want to do. And you're
and you're.
Speaker 12 (10:52):
And the version of It's a Wonderful Life that would
have been made if George had said, okay, by Mary,
I have to go travel the world now. There could
have been a version of the movie like that, And
I think it would have been one filled with regret
and longing on George's part because he doesn't have Mary.
(11:15):
I don't think that the movie is about how George
chose one right path and he has to be made
to see it. In some ways. The point of the
movie is that there are lots of paths that we
can choose, and any path you choose is going to
have joy in it, and it's also going to have
regret in it. And how do you come to peace
(11:37):
with the path that you've chosen. How do you accept
that whatever life you're living is the wonderful life that
you were meant to live? And how do you do
that before it's too late? So, yeah, I don't have
a lot of patience for the idea that Mary trapped George.
I think that George is where he wanted to be,
(11:58):
and that doesn't mean he's not going to have periods
of wondering what his life would have looked like if
he had chosen something else.
Speaker 4 (12:06):
Clarence, Yes, George, where's Mary?
Speaker 18 (12:10):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (12:11):
Well, I can't. I don't know how you know these things.
But tell me where is she?
Speaker 19 (12:15):
If you know where she.
Speaker 4 (12:16):
Is, tell me where my wife is. I'm not supposed
to tell. Please, Clarence, tell me where she is.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
You're not going to like it, George, where is she?
Speaker 4 (12:23):
She's an old maid, she never married.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
Where's Murray?
Speaker 4 (12:26):
Where is she?
Speaker 21 (12:27):
Where is she She's just.
Speaker 4 (12:28):
About the coast up the library.
Speaker 18 (12:31):
It's almost like she ended up a carmelite nun, right
like in a monastery, because nobody, nobody had the charm
of George Bailey, nobody had the sex appeal of you know,
nobody's saying buffalo girls once you come out tonight with her.
And as a result, you know, she never had sex ever.
You know, it's like, I don't know, it's I guess
(12:54):
I've never bought that.
Speaker 21 (12:55):
I have no doubt in my mind that even in
the alternate reality, Mary would have still been in this
very strong, independent woman.
Speaker 14 (13:02):
The most common complaint about Wonderful Life may be Mary's
fate in the universe where her spouse George Bailey was
never born.
Speaker 19 (13:10):
Looked at from our modern perspective, the two options presented
to her are spinster dumb or having a husband and kids.
Speaker 14 (13:19):
This is Emily Saint James media and culture critic.
Speaker 19 (13:23):
And yet I think, if you like, look around the
edges of this movie, it's more complicated than that.
Speaker 12 (13:28):
Marry Mary, carry it to George.
Speaker 14 (13:37):
Don't you know me?
Speaker 3 (13:37):
What happened to us?
Speaker 17 (13:38):
I don't know you like me?
Speaker 6 (13:39):
Gory?
Speaker 4 (13:40):
Please, well, don't do this to me, Please marry Who
are kids I mean to marry? Help me?
Speaker 8 (13:49):
Let me go, Charlie. But my wife.
Speaker 19 (14:06):
I think what is interesting is it's not that she
lacks for options for marriage. She has plenty. It's that
she wants to marry George and has since she was
a kid. So if she doesn't marry him, she's going
to get a job at the library. And like, yes,
the film kind of treats that as a tragedy. But
I think both in the way that Donna Reid plays
it and in the ways that you can sort of
think about the movie's internal logic, I don't think it's
(14:29):
treated as a curse so much as it's treated as
like these two people were meant to be together and
they're not together. I think it's more complicated than you know,
the read of it that is, like, oh my gosh,
this movie thinks working at the library is the worst
thing that could happen, and being single is the worst
thing that could happen. This movie thinks Mary and George
belong together, and it carries with it sexist assumptions about that,
(14:51):
but like it deep down just thinks these two people
make each other better and Honestly, if two people make
each other better, maybe they should be married. I'll believe
that today.
Speaker 22 (15:01):
I went back to college in Indiana, went to DePauw
University for a while, and then transferred to Western Washington University,
which is how I ended up in this part of
Washington State.
Speaker 14 (15:12):
You've met Monica previously, Frank Kapra's granddaughter. Here, she's again
speaking alongside her daughter.
Speaker 22 (15:20):
Hannah, and I graduated from there, got a teaching degree,
and now I'm an elementary librarian.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
I went to Western Washington University like she did for
my undergrad and traveled around a bit, lived in Alaska
for a little while, and then went and got my
master's degree in Library information science from Syracuse and then
I now work in records management for the EPA So Library. Jason,
for sure, I think it's hilarious.
Speaker 22 (15:47):
But I think my grandfather really loved books, and he
and my grandmother was a huge book collector, and they
had a rare book collection that was quite famous for
a while there. But it's funny because it was. It's
sort of ironic in our family. Now it's like, oh
my gosh, she's as a library, you know, Like what
(16:08):
a terrible thing.
Speaker 21 (16:09):
You know, being librarian, it's not an easy job. You
don't just shelve books all day. Your progressive, critical analytical thinker,
you are somebody who you know has a strong focus
and concentration. I think that makes you a lot stronger
as a person, that you know how to have conversations,
you know how to talk to people.
Speaker 14 (16:26):
Tanya Hussein, a writer and editor, thinks looking at Mary's
outcome without George as a tragedy does a disservice to
her and to librarians.
Speaker 21 (16:37):
Seeing Mary for me is somebody who is very independent
in both realms. When she's married with George, in you know,
the life with all the children, she's doing a great job.
She takes care of her family. She's like the utmost
definition of feminism and the fact that she knew exactly
what she wanted. Mary will always be a feminist in
both lives. Librarians back in the forties they actually made
(17:00):
quite a lot. They've made eighteen thousand wages versus the
average worker making twelve thousand a year, and that was
been endowed by the Carnegie Foundation. Saying that she's an
old maid and she resorted to nothing, it's ridiculous.
Speaker 7 (17:14):
I would be remiss if I did not mention that
Amerna Public Library was voted best library in Westchester County
and we are super proud of that.
Speaker 14 (17:22):
I brought you briefly to Mamerineck, New York in a
previous episode where Norman Rockwell grew up. This is Jennifer O'Neill,
their librarian.
Speaker 7 (17:32):
I have crowds revia librarian, but library director is a
totally different set of skills.
Speaker 10 (17:36):
I managed people and.
Speaker 7 (17:40):
Helped manage this facility, manage the budget, and have all
of our dealings with external community as well. I report
to the board. I'm their only employee. These are all
my employees here. We have an open position currently for
fifty five thousand dollars. It's not common to own your
(18:03):
own home when you work at a library. I have
some librarians who are married and have been in the
profession for a long time, but there's spouse probably makes
more than they do to make that a possibility.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
See if you were to ask me to say a
George Bailey type here, I would say Leslie.
Speaker 9 (18:25):
Nope.
Speaker 14 (18:25):
Frank Capra's great granddaughter again. Hannah a super fan of
television show Parks and Recreation with actor Amy Poehler playing
small town leader Leslie Nope.
Speaker 23 (18:37):
I haven't vac seen it all the way through three times.
It is about a main character named Leslie Nope, who
is the deputy director of the Parks and Recreation Department
of Pawnee, Indiana, and she cares very deeply about her
community and the people around her, and she just wants
to make everyone's lives better. And she runs into roadblocks
(18:58):
that are her coworkers in the community that she serves,
but she attempts to overcome those and successfully does on
multiple occasions and helps show them that their community is
great and that they can help you out in small,
meaningful ways.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
Every day.
Speaker 14 (19:13):
During college, Hannah would watch the show weekly with a
group of friends as each episode aired on NBC.
Speaker 23 (19:20):
Yeah, it was just a bunch of us who all
we were all finishing college or had just finished college,
so we were all like about to go out into
the world, right, and we saw Leslie as an example
of what to do in the world. Her motto is
always just try your hardest and try your best. I
think a lot of us have carried that with us
since then.
Speaker 14 (19:36):
Leslie's best friend, Anne Perkins, is played by Rashida Jones,
whose grandfather, you'll recall, played that special role in Seeing
Wonderful Life End Up The People's movie.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
One of my best friends.
Speaker 23 (19:50):
We have a joke that I'm the Anne Perkins to
her Leslie No, because she's like really the go getter
between the two of us, and she's the one who,
like she will push me to go try new things,
or to learn more about an issue, or to just
get more involved. And I love their friendship. It's so
just lovely and beautiful, like they're not ashamed how much
they care for each other. You can talk about the
(20:11):
Bechdel test too, if you want to hear. At very
base level of feminism for a television show is two
women on screen, both who have names, who are talking
a conversation about something other than man and parks, and
rec just flew right by that, I think maybe in
one of the first scenes, because Leslie and Ann are
introduced immediately to each other and they're talking about a park.
(20:33):
So you just kind of knew right away that this
show was gonna not pit women against each other but
hopefully help uplift them.
Speaker 24 (20:41):
Good evening, everyone, and welcome to the event we are
doing tonight. Which is a city council candidate debate that
we're going to start now.
Speaker 9 (20:48):
It's going to affect your decisions as a city counselor.
Speaker 20 (20:51):
I want to run this town like a business. My opponent,
Leslie Nope, has a very anti business agenda. Recently, my
dad told me that if Leslie Nope wins the election,
they'll probably have to move Sweetens to Mexico. That would
be terrible. Of course, thousands of people in this town
would lose their jobs and we all wouldn't have candy. Now,
(21:14):
I'm not saying that is gonna happen, but I do
know this. If I win, I bet I could get
them to stay soaking stuff.
Speaker 22 (21:27):
I'm very angry.
Speaker 25 (21:29):
I'm angry that Bobby Newport would hold this town hostage
and threaten to leave if you don't give him what
he wants.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
It's despicable.
Speaker 25 (21:40):
Corporations are not allowed to dictate what a city needs.
That power belongs to the people. Bobby Newport and his
daddy would like you to think it belongs to them.
I'd love this town, and when you love something, you
don't threaten it, you don't punish it, You fight for it,
(22:01):
you take care of it. You put it first as
your city councilor I will make sure that no one
takes advantage of Pawnee. This is my home, you or
my family, and I promise you I'm not going anywhere.
Speaker 20 (22:22):
Holy Leslie, that was awesome.
Speaker 14 (22:27):
Of course, you'll remember that before Amy Poehler was Leslie Nope,
early in her career she was Mary Hatch in the
parody Escape from Wonderful Life, co created by Jay Martil.
Speaker 18 (22:40):
The one thing I noticed when we're taking apart the
movie was what a strong character she was, which again
would have been very easy to underwrite that character, make
her like arm candy for George. And I fell in
love with that actress when I was watching that movie
over and over again, and she's it's like an amazing
(23:01):
it's an amazing performance right in the way that she
in some ways represents the great part of the town
is embody and Mary right.
Speaker 14 (23:11):
The original film gives us one version, but now thanks
to Jay and Amy, we have the opportunity to see
another stranger version. George is trying to escape from the
film because it's been running for so long and he's
so tired of the part of living in Bedford Falls
(23:31):
being George Bailey, that is until Mary takes his place.
Speaker 18 (23:37):
Clarence, Yes, George, where's Mary?
Speaker 4 (23:41):
Well?
Speaker 9 (23:41):
I can't age.
Speaker 18 (23:43):
And you've gotten to tell me where is she? Is
it a Polish art movie? Oh my god, it's not
a pornal or.
Speaker 17 (23:48):
You really don't want to know where he is?
Speaker 18 (23:49):
Clarence, tell me where she is?
Speaker 19 (23:51):
You're not gonna like it.
Speaker 14 (23:52):
George, where she she's playing?
Speaker 9 (23:53):
George Bailey.
Speaker 14 (23:55):
It's a wonderful eye overent not far off. She's shooting
the scene outside the middle of the morning.
Speaker 17 (24:06):
All right, uncle Billy, see tomorrow, Laura, Okay.
Speaker 18 (24:13):
Mary, what the hell are you doing wearing my hat
on my clothes? Are you crazy?
Speaker 15 (24:20):
Mary?
Speaker 8 (24:22):
Mary?
Speaker 11 (24:23):
Mary?
Speaker 6 (24:24):
Marry Marry Mary?
Speaker 14 (24:28):
How dare you steal my part?
Speaker 18 (24:29):
I'll shaved you.
Speaker 22 (24:30):
From the dorsh hot Dog.
Speaker 18 (24:32):
I'm George, I'm George Bley.
Speaker 14 (24:34):
What the heck are you doing?
Speaker 18 (24:35):
Prying up?
Speaker 6 (24:35):
Baby?
Speaker 3 (24:35):
What's going on?
Speaker 8 (24:36):
Mary? George?
Speaker 9 (24:40):
I'm George Bailey.
Speaker 4 (24:42):
George to George?
Speaker 14 (24:43):
Why are you George's Hi to George.
Speaker 10 (24:46):
He's ruining the movie again?
Speaker 3 (24:48):
Roll thing my movie?
Speaker 14 (24:49):
Hi made this movie?
Speaker 4 (24:50):
What it is? She can.
Speaker 18 (24:54):
Because that's George is trying to get away from the
town George is trying to get away from Mary. Jory's
trying to get from commitment. Joined just trying to get
away from growing up, from all the things you have
to do as an adult, the sacrifices you have to make.
You know your dreams right, like everyone, no matter how
successful you are, you know, you get married and you
(25:16):
have kids. There's things that fall by the wayside. And
that's and but Mary's it's all so well done.
Speaker 14 (25:26):
If you wanted to imagine what things would be like
if Mary, not George, was actualized to be the recognized
leader regarding events in Bedford Falls, you'd need look no
further than the only attempt at a remake, the nineteen
seventy seven TV movie It Happened One Christmas, made during
(25:47):
the era when the world believed Wonderful Life was in
public domain. Nearly a shot for shot, line for line,
redo it did just that, swapping the gender of the
protagonist with Marlowe Thomas, the actor coming off her hit
TV show That Girl, as Mary Bailey, daughter of Peter Bailey.
(26:08):
Here she's the one with the big dreams who stands
up to Potter, this time played in a marvelous bit
of casting by Orson Wills.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
Now, wait just a minute, here, Oka here, Mary, Your
father was no business man, and business is what we're
here to discuss, no matter how said I am at
his passing.
Speaker 20 (26:28):
Ah, that's wonderful coming from you, Potter, considering you probably
sent him to his grave.
Speaker 9 (26:33):
Ridiculous.
Speaker 8 (26:33):
You're what's ridiculous, mister Potter.
Speaker 9 (26:36):
You never could beat my father.
Speaker 6 (26:37):
Could you?
Speaker 17 (26:38):
An?
Speaker 4 (26:38):
You're a preposterous girl, Mary Bitter, hurry after Europe, right,
one of.
Speaker 14 (26:42):
Those books you deal better in fiction in real life.
Speaker 3 (26:45):
You think I couldn't have crushed this nickel and dime
operation in a day if I'd wanted to, Well.
Speaker 10 (26:49):
Maybe this is a nickel and dime operation.
Speaker 8 (26:52):
And frankly, why anybody would want to spend their life
doing it is beyond me.
Speaker 17 (26:56):
But Peter Bailey dedicated his life to it, and you
people should understand what you're giving up before you knuckle
under them.
Speaker 25 (27:01):
Let's not get you should get excited.
Speaker 23 (27:04):
I'm leaving.
Speaker 10 (27:05):
You're the ones that have to stay here.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
He should understand that a.
Speaker 9 (27:08):
Man like Ernie Baker being able to buy his own
taxi you have and own his own house.
Speaker 12 (27:13):
Yeah, taxi driver, My father knew what gave people's self respect.
Speaker 9 (27:18):
When Potter here gouges them for his company shacks, he
steals from them a lot more than just the money.
Speaker 10 (27:24):
He steals their dignity.
Speaker 12 (27:25):
And you may not think that shows up on some
financial sheet.
Speaker 8 (27:28):
For a hardware store or matters to a doctor or
a judge, But just watch what happens to all of
you if.
Speaker 10 (27:34):
You let him win.
Speaker 12 (27:36):
Monica his I have no doubt that Mary, I have
no doubt that Mary could run, could run the business.
It's really interesting to puzzle through this to separate what
was George's dream and what was Mary's dream, because, like
we were talking about, Mary's dream was to be with George.
(27:59):
And I'm think that if she wasn't going to be
with George, there's a good chance she wasn't going to
be in Bedford Falls. She would have gone elsewhere. She
would have found she would have found a bigger life,
and it would have been a good life. But I
don't know that it would have been in Bedford Falls.
(28:22):
In some ways, the two of them together are what
make the Bedford Falls existence, you know, possible and meaningful.
Speaker 16 (28:32):
Fascinator to hear Jimmy tell how it's a wonderful life
encouraged him to keep making movies. Well, it had an
entirely different effect on me.
Speaker 14 (28:41):
This is Donna Reed, the actor who brought Mary Hatch
to life.
Speaker 16 (28:46):
When I finished making that film, I thought perhaps I
might not make any more movies. I suppose I knew
on some deep level that I would never have another
experience in a film to equal it.
Speaker 10 (29:01):
We all worked hard.
Speaker 16 (29:03):
I never worked harder in my whole life.
Speaker 10 (29:07):
There was never a letup, never a let down.
Speaker 16 (29:11):
But I certainly never dreamed that people would be looking
at it. It's a wonderful life every Christmas Eve for
the next thirty five years. Frank, I am very grateful
and beholden to you for letting me be Mary Bailey.
Speaker 10 (29:32):
Thank you, she and my dad. You know, after she
won the Oscar in nineteen fifty four, From Here to Eternity,
she ended up in all these b westerns. She couldn't
stand it, and Hollywood didn't really know what to do
with her, so they looked into starting their own production company.
They made a couple of movies and then tried television.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
You know.
Speaker 10 (29:54):
It was on for eight years. It was extremely popular.
Speaker 14 (29:57):
Mary Owen is one of two biolog children born to
Donna Reed and her producer husband Tony Owen. Like Jimmy Stewart,
Mary also adopted two children with Tony, but they would
divorce after their hit television series The Donna Reed Show ended.
Speaker 10 (30:14):
There is in season two an episode on The Donna
Reed Show Helped Just a housewife and it's really fun
and in a way, she kind of brings feminism to
this small town hill deal in which the show is set,
unlike today where things are kind of heavy handed and
sort of hit you over the head. It's pretty cute
and it's done very well.
Speaker 4 (30:35):
Hello again, Direct from a Courus Supermarket, we present The
Housewives Corner, the radio show that brings your laughs, tears
to say.
Speaker 10 (30:44):
Nothing, your boggins. Yeah. She's in the grocery store and
there's a guy who has a show and he's interviewing
women and he always asks them what do you do?
And they always say, I'm just a housewife. And my
mother starts commenting on that and realizing that not only
are you diminishing yourself by saying that, but then what
she tries to define all the things that that means
(31:05):
to be a housewife.
Speaker 14 (31:06):
And what do you do? Missus burns?
Speaker 9 (31:08):
Oh, I'm just a housewife, Terry.
Speaker 8 (31:11):
If you ever noticed how women seem to apologize when
they say that.
Speaker 16 (31:15):
Men don't say I'm just a salesman, I'm just a scientist.
Speaker 10 (31:18):
And then you don't say you're just a doctor, Dollie.
Speaker 14 (31:21):
Why take exception to a word? You are a housewife?
Speaker 16 (31:24):
But not the way he used it, laughing boy makes
it sound like a faceless glog, Alex.
Speaker 6 (31:32):
It isn't that I object to doing housework.
Speaker 8 (31:35):
I just don't want to be known as just a housewife.
Speaker 14 (31:39):
Donna Reed becomes a lightning rod of controversy among espoused
feminists in the nineteen sixties.
Speaker 10 (31:45):
Of course, I never really told people who my mother
was until I felt I could trust them. But I
suffered deeply because that way the feminism just really hated
what she represented on the show, which was hard because
I mean, she was a businesswoman. It was her name
on the show. I mean, it wasn't like the other
(32:08):
family shows where she just kind of sat around and
you know, baked cookies or whatever. She was pretty active.
Speaker 14 (32:14):
Of all the towns and cities in America in which
the modern female equality movement might have gotten started, it
happened in Seneca Falls. The town we've established shares the
same space in your universe that Bedford Falls does in
Georgia's and Mary's. I'm taking you to the remnants of
the Wesleyan Chapel, a very old brick building now part
(32:37):
of America's Women's Rights National Historical Park. This is where
the convention took place that kicked it all off.
Speaker 5 (32:45):
Following the Revolutionary War, it was a period of time
where the United States is really trying to figure out
who we were and what it meant to be an American,
what it meant to be a citizen, what it meant
to really fully participate in society, and they rallied a
(33:05):
lot of folks around the cause of abolition. So this
notion of equality starts to snowball and really kind of
comes to a head in Seneca Falls in eighteen forty eight.
Speaker 14 (33:18):
Danene Waller is one of the leaders of this much
visited origin monument to female equality.
Speaker 5 (33:25):
Elizabeth Katie Stanton, her father was a practicing lawyer and
then a judge, and she worked in his law office.
She was able to take her education much further than
most women of the time, but she was continually frustrated
that she could not participate in her father's law practice
because she was a woman, and so she got heavily
(33:48):
involved in abolition through Henry Stanton. And at this convention
she met Lucretia Mott and they became good friends and
the injustice of this and at the beginning of the convention,
Elizabeth Katie Stanton read a document called the Declaration of Sentiments.
We hold these truths to be self evident, that all
(34:08):
men and women are created equal. And over the course
of two days they refined it and then voted to
ratify it, and at the end of the convention they
brought together a list of resolutions of statements that dictated
how they were going to move forward as activists for
(34:29):
women's rights.
Speaker 12 (34:30):
I think that for Mary getting involved in the feminist movement,
it would come from a place of her own internal
sense of dignity, self worth, and idea of what is
right in the world.
Speaker 14 (34:46):
Once again, you're hearing Monica Hiss, So it.
Speaker 12 (34:50):
Would come from a space of of course, all people
should be treated equal and women should be treated equally too,
And it would be more of a establishment version of feminism.
It would be a let's go through the proper channels
let's have voter registration drives, let's you know, supporting certain candidates.
(35:15):
I could actually see that Violet, after going through a
life of being underestimated and marginalized and treated as a
fluzy and all of that.
Speaker 8 (35:26):
Excuse me, I think I got a date, but stick
around though it is just in case him.
Speaker 4 (35:35):
Well wait for you, baby.
Speaker 14 (35:36):
Monica sees George's one time love interest turn friend, Violet Big,
as a likely candidate to become a certain kind of feminist.
Speaker 12 (35:46):
I could see her being much more of a like,
burn your broad, tear down the establishment feminist at the
end of the day, because she wouldn't have been coming
from a place of the security and for the most
part things will work out kind of kind of background
that Mary came from, I could see. I could see
(36:07):
Violet being much more of a figure who wanted to
operate outside of the political system and outside of political norms.
You know, Mary would be the one who would be
hosting a fundraising dinner for Kamala Harris, and Violet would
be the one wearing a pink pussy hat marching on
the mall. I think that those would be in like
(36:27):
a modern day setting. I think that those would be
the roles that I could see them.
Speaker 2 (36:32):
Taking with me.
Speaker 15 (36:33):
I know, especially because I'm single and I have a
business and I seem to have my shit together. People
talk about me all the time like I'm this wild
whatever I am, people give me a hard time to
be a woman in business.
Speaker 14 (36:46):
You came to know Twila Keeler in a previous episode,
the one who grudgingly agreed with some Seneca Falls residents
that she might at one time have fit the description
of the real Violet Big.
Speaker 15 (37:01):
Doesn't everyone look for their soilmates and if they're lucky
enough today? Kind of Yeah. I was pregnant at sixteen.
We got married, lived together a couple of years, but
he was mean. He was a mean person. It was crazy.
I felt like I loved him enough to cut my
right arm off for him. But then later on I thought,
what a voice of a good loom that would have been.
My oldest daughter is now an anesthesiologist. She's amazing.
Speaker 14 (37:24):
Eventually, Twyla met a man she still feels was what
she calls a soulmate.
Speaker 15 (37:30):
When I kissed him the first time, I literally felt
like I was seeing fireworks. That was the father of
my second.
Speaker 14 (37:37):
Two Twila and Violet are both hairdressers, but Violet never
started her own so long, which of course Twyla did
in Seneca Falls.
Speaker 15 (37:47):
A woman in business is tough. Here. I'll give you
an example. When I could open my business, I wanted
to probably like a ten persons one. I put this
all business plan, business seemed together. I was going to
get home. So I brought it into a bank and
I was sitting with the loan officer and so I
give him this folder, and we've listened to it, and goes,
(38:08):
who did this for you? And I said I did it.
He didn't believe I did it because I was a woman.
Didn't think I had a smart enough to put something together.
I guess.
Speaker 9 (38:19):
I was a little bit of a George Bailey. Afraid
of getting stuck in Bedford Falls.
Speaker 14 (38:23):
Lorielyn Dean founded the trail blazing fempunk rock trio Zuzu's Pedals.
Speaker 9 (38:29):
I was turning into that person staying in the college
town and getting older in their twenties, and I starting
to feel like a loser, and I started making big
plans for myself to get the heck out of Dodge.
I started a band after a health scare. At that point,
having found out at twenty four that I have multiple sclerosis,
(38:51):
I sort of threw all caution into the wind and said,
I want to be in a band. I'd been trying
to do that in Madison. Minneapolis is where it's happening
right now. I went up there on a Greyhound bus
and started my new life in Minneapolis. One of my
jobs early on in Minneapolis was I worked in a library.
(39:11):
So perhaps I'm more like Mary Hatch in that regard.
I was a big dreamer, like George Bailey.
Speaker 14 (39:17):
Unlike Mary Laurie in the nineteen eighties has big dreams
for herself that don't involve any man.
Speaker 9 (39:26):
Minneapolis at the time it's a beautiful Midwestern city and
it had all of the best music in the country.
As far as I was concerned. At that time. There
was Prince he was the resident superstar, and then there
were bands like the Replacements in Hohoskerdoo and Soul Asylum
and the Jayhawks. I knew some of these guys because
I had roommates from Minneapolis in college who grew up
(39:49):
with these guys, So it was sort of, of course,
I'm moving to Minneapolis.
Speaker 15 (39:55):
Oh.
Speaker 9 (39:55):
I didn't mention yet that I didn't know how to
play the guitar yet, but I was determined that it
was going to happen.
Speaker 14 (40:03):
It's then, while suffering health problems that are worrying her
that she sees a moment in Wonderful Life that inspires
her to name her new band.
Speaker 9 (40:13):
My parents had just been divorced. It was the first
Christmas with them not together. It was very awkward, weird,
broken family sitting on the couch on Christmas Eve, lamenting,
and I told my little brother and sister to watch
this movie that's about to be on because I just
saw it and it's an amazing Christmas movie. So the
three of us sat and watched It's a Wonderful Life,
(40:35):
And when the zuzuz Pedals scene came on, my brother
turned to me and he said, that's what you should
call your band. And starting the band was a thing
that made me feel back in my life.
Speaker 4 (40:48):
They are.
Speaker 14 (40:50):
What do you know about that very.
Speaker 9 (40:54):
So zuzu pedals, and the symbolism of being back in
your flawed life resonated with exactly what was going on
with me at the time.
Speaker 26 (41:11):
Wake Up, the Zuzu's Pedals hit, Cinderella's Greed and other
big songs began to put them on the map.
Speaker 14 (41:24):
As they say, you know.
Speaker 9 (41:26):
People like go oh, that was a lot of fun.
You know, you were pretty good for girls. What's it
like being a girl in a band? Get that constantly?
And there was another all women band in town who
had taken off immediately, Babes in Toyland, So we were
sort of in their dust. But there were a lot
of women starting to form and be in bands at
(41:48):
that time. Yeah, we were treated like prostitutes pretty much
at first. Mary Hatch, I mean, I mean that suggests
fertility right there, you know, last name, and yeah, I
mean I think she was. She seemed progressive and smart
(42:10):
to me compared to some of the other characters in
the movie.
Speaker 14 (42:17):
While Zuzu's Pedals blazes a trail to success, Laurie also
begins dating Paul Westerberg, the frontman of the band The Replacements.
That really starts gribing attention. You know, the songs can't
Hardly Wait, I Will Dare Swinging Party, and Laurie begins
(42:37):
to feel the plight of Mary Hatch, a talented woman
stuck being the woman behind the man.
Speaker 9 (42:44):
We really fell in love and I saw at a
point with the band, and it was getting really intense,
and I was starting to get singled out as the voice,
the face, the represent and that was not at all
how we worked, and it made me very uncomfortable. And
(43:08):
I was getting really tired from the road, and Paul
was had just gone solo. So and we bought a house,
and I think I decided he didn't decide that we
can't both be doing this, especially if we want a family.
So I just sort of focused on making a home
(43:32):
and becoming a mother for a while. But you know,
my art completely took the back seat to his. And
you know, he didn't asked me to do it, but
I understood that that's what had to happen for this
to work. So in that way, I relate to marry
a great deal. I kept the house together, I kept
(43:54):
all the Johnny stuff together. I, you know, in Paul
could be Paul, and whether that meant touring or disappearing
in the basement for six months and cranking out a
record or whatever, I definitely ran the show while we
were together. So I can relate to Mary in that respect.
(44:16):
She's the one who kept them together. She was solid
as a rock. And you know, I'm so glad she
didn't go with Sam Waywright, who was a dick and
was totally cheated on her.
Speaker 14 (44:27):
If you would like to see your universe more closely
resemble the reality of Bedford Falls rather than Pottersville, perhaps
you should look no further than empowering women like Mary
Hatch and Laurie Lyn Dean, who have long been carrying
the would be George Bailey's many in your universe, speculate
(44:49):
as to what might have happened to Mary and George
after the last moments you see them at the end
of Wonderful Life. What kind of life would Mary lead?
Will she can continue to be the shadow of George,
or will she find a way to take a little
more control of her life? Or perhaps everything is just
the way it should be. Monica Hiss has an idea
(45:12):
of what might be in store for those two heroes
in that universe.
Speaker 12 (45:18):
Yeah, So, for one thing, I hope that after the
happy ending, George has had enough of a revelation in
his own life that he no longer needs Mary's emotional
support quite as much. Like he is, he comes to
(45:38):
peace with whatever his own life looks like, like if
he's continuing at the building alone, he's doing it, he's
doing it with a sense of purpose, and he's doing
it happily, or he's whatever he's doing. Mary doesn't need
to worry about her husband's happiness in the way that
(46:02):
she has. I can really see her coming into her
own at the end of this movie. I can see
her becoming involved in early versions of the civil rights movement.
I can see her organizing.
Speaker 2 (46:18):
Sort of.
Speaker 12 (46:20):
Early versions of meetings related to women's liberation, and not
in a radical way, but in a really in a
really thoughtful way, based on her knowledge of what she
can do as a strong woman and what she believes
other women were capable of doing.
Speaker 14 (46:40):
In the previous episode, you came to know Philip van
doren Stern, the writer of the original story from which
the film Wonderful Life sprang. When he failed to find
any magazines to publish the story, he decided to send
it out in Christmas cards. This is his daughter, Marguerite.
Speaker 11 (47:00):
I was in the third grade and remember delivering a
few of these cards to my teachers and friends. My father,
who was himself from a mixed religious background, explained to
me that while the story takes place at Christmas time
and then we were sending it as a Christmas card
to our friends. It is a universal story for all
people in all times.
Speaker 14 (47:19):
Inspired by her father's work and wonderful life, Marguerite would
go on to make a far greater impact on your
world than George and Mary could have ever dreamed, helping
develop and popularize something called microfinance.
Speaker 11 (47:35):
Michael Finance made an impression on me at an early age.
My late father, Philip van Dornstern, wrote a story called
The Greatest Gift that was made into a movie titled
It's a Wonderful Life. The film, which I saw many
times while growing up, is about the owner, led by
Jimmy Stewart, of a small town building and loan institution,
who fights the local establishment to provide financial services to
(47:59):
the town's working for The movie's message seems to have
sunk deep into my subconscious to emerge many years later.
Speaker 14 (48:07):
The three granddaughters of Philip Van Door and Stern you've
heard several times over this podcast, Laura, Peren and Sarah,
spent their childhoods in places like India and Indonesia and
Sri Lanka with their mother, an impactful anthropologist. By the way. Interestingly,
Jimmy Stewart's daughter Kelly, whom you've also heard several times
(48:30):
in this podcast, also became an impactful anthropologist. As of
others you've heard, he's Marguerite's daughter Laura.
Speaker 6 (48:39):
One of the things that she did talk about when
I was growing up is how seeing a woman had
some benefits in being an anthropologist and going to world
places all over the world. If she'd been a man,
she wouldn't have been able to talk to all of
the women. She wouldn't have been allowed to engage with
all of the women and with the children. Even though
she was a woman, she was allowed to engage with
(48:59):
the men because she was a foreigner and she was
so different from everybody. She was from the outside.
Speaker 11 (49:05):
Some years ago, I was talking with a family of
Milana poly Tellitz. It was during the monsoon and we
were sitting on the mud floor in their small, crowded
and windowless house, which provided only the minimal protection from
the driving rain. I had been working for several days
to try and understand certain intradulate cast relationships. When I finished,
(49:27):
one of the men said to me, we are pleased
that you are interested in us, that you visit our houses,
and that you sit and talk with us. We try
to tell you whatever you want to know, but there
is something we cannot understand. We are sitting here in
the mud because this is all that we have. Can
you not see that we are cold and wet, that
(49:48):
we are poor and have nothing. You, on the other hand,
are educated and wealthy. Why do you want only to
sit here and learn about our customs? Why do you
not also use knowledge and resources to help us make
better customs.
Speaker 6 (50:03):
That's kind of the moment when she recognized that what
she was doing was learning about, you know, the world's
poorest people and how they were living could be used
in a practical manner to try to make their lives
better on a you know, top down from you know,
government advising to bottom up, you know, talking to people
to see what problems they really face and just try
(50:24):
to understand what are the solutions and how to we
find them. And that's how she got into microfinance and
micro banking.
Speaker 14 (50:32):
It's been estimated that this groundbreaking approach to poverty reduction
has impacted the lives of over one hundred million people
around the world. Pioneered by the daughter of one of
the creators of Wonderful Life, this is likely the greatest
impact on your world of the influence of that little
(50:53):
Christmas movie.
Speaker 6 (50:55):
The Potters of the world are still here, but the
Vaileys of the world are still here too, and it
really makes a difference. And I think a lot of
people equate profitability with Potter. But that's the big mistake.
You don't need to be greedy, right. Greed is its
own separate source of evil. Greed is when you take
(51:16):
everything for yourself. But profitability can lend to sustainability and
growth and provide opportunities for everyone. So it's really about
the democratization of the access to capital and its real meanings.
But that was the key insight and it turned out
(51:37):
to be really true, and it's true. It's around the
world almost one hundred years later from when the banking
scene hates place, and it's a wonderful life, right, And
it's literally exactly the same set of issues. It's really
quite stunning. Okay. So in two thousand and one, Equity
Bank in Kenya went from twenty four million in assets
(51:58):
to one billion. In two thousand and one. Equity was
a building a loan society, literally, a building a loan
society exactly liked the Bailey building and loans and if
they really had a vision, and the vision was about
the better quality of life for their clients and to
increase their income to make to give them a better life.
And these are literally the I mean, it's literally what
(52:20):
George Bailey is doing. And they really succeeded in a
dramatic way. She got to do what George Bailey never
got to do. Together with their good works, they can
they can create opportunity for all going to make and
continue to make a difference.
Speaker 24 (52:41):
George Bailey was never born. Visit Savegeorge Bailey dot com
to join the mission. There you'll find links to works
by this episode's participants. Learn more about how to celebrate
George Bailey Day on Saturday, December ninth, and annually the
second Saturday of December hereafter by hosting your own Wonderful
Life party. Tell your friends to listen to this show, subscribe, like, comment,
(53:04):
and post about it on social media hashtag Save George Bailey.
Subscribe to our Patreon to hear uncut interviews and bonus content.
The podcast also available on YouTube. iHeartMedia presents a double asterisk.
iHeartMedia co production in association with True Stories Created, written
and directed by Joseph kurt Angfer and Rayno Vashlski. Kurt Angfer,
(53:27):
producer and supervising editor, Reno Vashlsky, producer and journalist, Elizabeth Marcus, editor,
Roy Sillings narrator, George Bailey. Theme song by Carolyn Sills.
Buy Your Albums soundtrack composed by Zachary Walter by His
Albums and the original soundtrack to this podcast available wherever
you get your music. Mallory Keenoi co producer, writer's assistant,
(53:51):
archival producer, in fact checker and co writer for this episode.
John Autry, sound engineer, additional editing, sound design and mix.
Executive producers Dave Cassidy, kurt Angfer, Lindsay Hoffman and Bethann
Macaluso for iHeartMedia, John Duffy for Double Asterisk, Ruth Vaka
for True Stories, Reyno Voshewsky for Double Asterisk and True Stories,
(54:14):
Elizabeth Hankuch Associate producer, Brandon Lavoy and Ryan Pennington. Consulting
producers Keith Sklar, contract Legal, Peter Yazi Copyright and Fair
Use Legal, Matti Akres archival specialist, ron Kaddition, Benji Michaels
publicists Kavasanthanam and Marley Weaver. Marketing and Promotions. Art and
(54:36):
web designed by Aaron Kim. Interns were Kyra Gray, Emma Ramirez,
Eva Stewart and Tya Wilson. Podcast license for Philip Van
Doren Stearns The Greatest Gift provided by the Greatest Gift Corporation.
Their attorney is Kevin Koloff. Recorded at David Weber's Airtime
Studios in Bloomington, Indiana. This episode featured, in chronological order,
(54:58):
Carolyn Sills, Monica, Kelly Gilfoyle, j Martel, Tanya Hussang, Emily Saint, James,
Monica Capra, Hodges, Hannah Ermey, Jennifer O'Neil, Donna Reed, Mary Owen,
Janine Waller representing the Women's Rights National Historical Park, Twilight, Keeler,
Lori Lynden, Laura Robinson, the cast of Wonderful Life, Escape
(55:18):
from Wonderful Life, and the Donna Reed Show, and the
Brief Voices, Music and Artistry of Parks and Recreation. It
happened on Christmas in the American Film Institute Frank Capra
Award Show via clips used under the still existing legal
doctrine of fair use, the Potters are working on that one,
though j Martel provided use of the still never fully
released Escape from Wonderful Life, which he produced and starred in,
(55:39):
alongside performances by the writers Matt Besser, Amy Poehler, Ian
Roberts and Matt Walsh, directed by David Zeffe. The usage
is also fit fair use. The song Cinderella's Dream was
used briefly with Lori Lyndin's permission, written and performed by
Zuzu's Pedals, which is Colleen Elwood on bass and vocals,
Laurie on guitar and vocals, and Linda Pittman on drums,
(56:00):
produced by Lujiardano from Roadrunner Records by their albums. The
voice of Marguerite Stern Robinson was played by her daughter
Peren Robinson, based on words Marguerite wrote for her book
Law of the Fishes and for her afterward to the
edition she published of her father Philip Van Door and
Steren's The Greatest Gift, the original story that inspired the
Christmas classic It's a Wonderful Life. For more on microfinance
(56:22):
by her book The Microfinance Revolution Sustainable Finance. If you're
in Mamerianack, New York, visit the public Library. If you're
in Seneca Falls, visit the Wonderful Life Museum, the Women's
Rights National Historical Park, Drink Like a Girl and Hair
Elegance Between the Locks. Go to double asteriskmedia dot com
to hear our other limited run podcasts, Who Is rich
(56:43):
Blee After the Uprising with a Bold new season in
Saint Louis coming Summer twenty twenty four and Origins Birth
of a Pandemic. And subscribe to True Stories New weekly
Everybody Has a Podcast with Ruth and Ray. If you
were feeling like you're on the bridge, please call the
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(57:04):
into your phone, or contact the crisis text line by
texting seven four one dash seven four one. Consider donating
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and make George Bailey proud. We're not affiliated with them
though copyright twenty twenty three Double Asterisk in Ink mar
George and Mary get married. You know, they're in the car.
They have to speak a lot of cast that they're
about to go, you.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Know, live it up in Europe, And how are we're
gonna do?
Speaker 3 (00:16):
We're gonna shoot the works a whole week in New
York a whole week and bring you to the highest hotels,
the oldest champagne, the richest caviar, the hottest music, and
the prettiest white.
Speaker 4 (00:27):
Wow.
Speaker 5 (00:28):
That does it?
Speaker 6 (00:29):
Then?
Speaker 7 (00:29):
What?
Speaker 4 (00:30):
Then?
Speaker 8 (00:30):
What?
Speaker 9 (00:30):
Honey?
Speaker 4 (00:31):
After that?
Speaker 8 (00:32):
Who cares?
Speaker 10 (00:33):
And then you know there's a run on the bank.
Speaker 8 (00:36):
My husband hasn't worked in over a year, and I
need money.
Speaker 4 (00:39):
How am I going to live until the bank opens?
Speaker 11 (00:41):
I got doctor Booster, Faith, I need ca.
Speaker 8 (00:43):
I can't hate that you're doing faith?
Speaker 4 (00:45):
I got Hey, how much do you need?
Speaker 6 (00:46):
Hey?
Speaker 4 (00:48):
I got two thousand dollars.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
And then Mary decides to give the money basically to
the people who just gave them the money.
Speaker 10 (00:55):
They just got married.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
You know, even if George went through what he went
through with Clarence, I don't think he would have made
it even halfway there without Mary's support and you know,
her not being praised by anything. I mean, if Mary
hadn't been there, I don't know if George would have
made it, to be honest with her without Clarence.
Speaker 10 (01:13):
She's a big you know, the hero of this movie.
You know, it's one thing to get an angel to
come down on.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Your shoulder and stuff whatever.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
She you know, she's basically there like listening him off,
supporting him, you know, trying to make everything in the
background go as coolly as possible. Yeah, I don't think
there would have been a George without Mary.
Speaker 12 (01:30):
And vice versa.
Speaker 10 (01:32):
You want me and.
Speaker 8 (01:43):
The friend stage.
Speaker 13 (01:45):
I know that without the whisper to jo bed.
Speaker 8 (01:58):
George b poptiy, I die.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
I really believe that you know the best songs, you
have to be genuine and write what you know.
Speaker 14 (02:05):
Carolyn Sills wrote and performs the song you hear at
the start of every episode George Bailey.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
And to me, that doesn't always mean like your feelings.
It could be an experience that is dear to you
or something that you've just loved your whole life. And
so when I started thinking about Christmas and what could
I write about, I mean immediately I thought, you know,
it's wonderful life and George Bailey, and then that was
interesting too, just thinking, Okay, well, how do I write
a song about that movie? I don't want to just
like retell the story, so I kind of needed a
(02:32):
spinet on it. And the first thing that popped into
my head was, you know, George Bailey, I love you
till the day I die, which is Mary has whispers
to him when he spent over the gowers, you know,
Pharmaceus making him a soda.
Speaker 11 (02:43):
Clp so.
Speaker 8 (02:51):
Jo, Yeah, Christmas, you like miss.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Wants to travel, he wants to build skyscrapers, and to him,
you know what's even bigger if there's the moon, hecasually
would do anything for her. And the beautiful part of
that is how she doesn't. You know, she doesn't want
to go out and do all these big things. She
just wants to have a nice, happy, comfortable life with
him in their little town that they have been in
since day one.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
I just I love her spirit. I love you know
how strong she is.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
I mean, she's I think she's a stronger character than George,
just in her ability to be able to handle everything
that's going on.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
So yeah, it's definitely definitely her story. I'm trying to
put myself in her shoes, Christmas, if.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
You make me rise.
Speaker 8 (04:15):
Lie.
Speaker 15 (04:16):
Oh.
Speaker 12 (04:21):
I wonder if he hadn't been in the picture, whether
Mary might have have found another another career or life
path in a serving profession.
Speaker 14 (04:34):
Monica Hisss writes about gender and its impact on society
for The Washington Post, including one article headlined Mary Bailey
is the true hero of It's a Wonderful Life Lake.
Speaker 12 (04:47):
Would she have been the brilliant art teacher who inspired
generations of students and whose family became the students that
had the students that she had inspired, and who upon
her retirement, the entire town would have come out to celebrate.
(05:09):
And she would have, you know, gone several times a
year into the city to see Broadway shows, and she
would have introduced culture, and she would have introduced like
beauty and interesting discussions to the people she met. I
could really easily see that kind of life for her.
Speaker 4 (05:29):
Buffalo girls, can't you come up to my?
Speaker 2 (05:32):
Can't you come up to my?
Speaker 4 (05:33):
Can't you come out tonight? Buffalo girls, can't you come
out tonight? Okay, then I'll throw her off at the
old Grandville House. Oh no, I love that old house. No,
(05:54):
you see, you make a wage and then try and
break some glass and you've got to be a pretty
good shot nowadays.
Speaker 16 (05:57):
To George, it's full of Roman said, old place, I'd
like to live in it.
Speaker 4 (06:03):
In that place I wouldn't live in as a ghost.
Speaker 14 (06:06):
Many Wonderful Life fans have posited this moment as the
one in which Mary doom George to a life in
Bedford Falls. If you believe in wishes, were you going.
Speaker 13 (06:18):
To throw a rock?
Speaker 4 (06:24):
Hey, that's pretty good?
Speaker 12 (06:26):
What'd you wish?
Speaker 17 (06:27):
Mary? H?
Speaker 4 (06:32):
Hello? Girls, can't you come out to me?
Speaker 8 (06:34):
Can't you come out?
Speaker 4 (06:35):
Come out to ride?
Speaker 12 (06:37):
She didn't need travel, she didn't need adventure. She needed George.
And that's that's very clear from the beginning. What she
needed to be happy was George. What George needed to
be happy, or what he thought he needed, was a big,
(06:58):
grand life, and he sacrificed that.
Speaker 4 (07:01):
What does did you want?
Speaker 3 (07:02):
Mary?
Speaker 5 (07:03):
What do you want?
Speaker 14 (07:05):
You want the moon?
Speaker 4 (07:06):
Just say the word and I'll throw a lasshole around
and pull it down. Hey, that's a pretty good idea.
I'll give you the moon, Mary, I'll take it.
Speaker 17 (07:15):
We believe that Mary is actually the real key character,
and it's a wonderful life. If it weren't for Mary,
George would be done.
Speaker 14 (07:22):
You remember Kelly, the owner of Drink Like a Girl,
hosting that beer tasting in Seneca Falls in an earlier episode.
Speaker 17 (07:31):
And George is the main character, right, it was Mary
who pulled everything together. It was Mary's empowerment that said,
all right, I'm going to pick up my bootstraps while
he's going crazy with the angel and take care of things.
And like, if it weren't for Mary, he would have
lost everything. So for me, Mary could pull her own
moon down. So our logo is Mary lasting the moon herself,
(07:51):
and the moon is holding one glass of wine in
one pint of beer, and hence it's wonderful tasting blending
women own breweries and women old wineries together today.
Speaker 12 (08:02):
So when I watched the movie, I spend it alternating
between wanting to ring George's neck, like just stop complaining
and look at this amazing life you have, but also
feeling a deep empathy for the fact that it's not
the life he wanted.
Speaker 14 (08:20):
Monica his he.
Speaker 12 (08:22):
He did have to sacrifice, and so he has to
go through more of a journey to accept where he's
at than than Mary had to go through.
Speaker 10 (08:32):
Did you know that.
Speaker 8 (08:32):
Mary had just back from school, came back three days ago.
Nice girl, Mary, kind that I'll help you find the answers. George,
can you give me one good reason why you shouldn't
call on Mary?
Speaker 4 (08:49):
Sure? Sam Wine?
Speaker 18 (08:50):
Right?
Speaker 4 (08:51):
Yeah, Sam's crazy.
Speaker 8 (08:52):
Or she's not crazy about him?
Speaker 6 (08:54):
Well, how do you know?
Speaker 15 (08:55):
Now?
Speaker 4 (08:55):
Why would she discuss it with?
Speaker 19 (08:57):
Well?
Speaker 6 (08:57):
Then how do you know?
Speaker 20 (08:57):
Oh?
Speaker 8 (08:58):
My god, ies haven't died. She lights up like a firefly.
Whenever you're around beside Sam Wayne Wright's away in New
York and you're here in Bedford falls An all share
and love and war.
Speaker 6 (09:11):
I don't know war.
Speaker 12 (09:15):
Oh, it's so infuriating. It's so infuriating because if you
watch the scene where Hello.
Speaker 4 (09:21):
Sam, how are you?
Speaker 13 (09:24):
I'm great.
Speaker 6 (09:24):
It's good to hear your voice again.
Speaker 8 (09:26):
Oh that's awfully sweet of you.
Speaker 4 (09:29):
Sam.
Speaker 16 (09:30):
There's an old friend of yours here, George Bailey.
Speaker 4 (09:33):
Yes, old Moss back George. Just a minute, I'll call him, George.
Speaker 8 (09:40):
George, Sam wants to speak to you.
Speaker 12 (09:43):
They're in Mary's living room and there crowded around the
telephone and they're talking to Sam Waynwright.
Speaker 4 (09:50):
All right, Sam, Well hell George Baileyofsky, Eh, fine, pair
you are What are you trying to do? Is steal
my girl, or what do you mean. Nobody's trying to
steal anybody's girl. Here's Mary.
Speaker 12 (10:02):
What you see is not Mary trying to keep George there.
What you see is George wrestling with the idea that
he wants these big things.
Speaker 4 (10:13):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 12 (10:17):
But he's also fallen in love with Mary. And that's
not Mary's faults. That's about life, that's about adulthood. That's
about realizing that the plans that you've made for yourself
you can have a wrench thrown in them.
Speaker 4 (10:34):
You listen to me, I don't want any plastics, and
I don't want any ground floors, and I don't want
to get married ever at anyone. You understand that I
want to do what I want to do. And you're
and you're.
Speaker 12 (10:52):
And the version of It's a Wonderful Life that would
have been made if George had said, okay, by Mary,
I have to go travel the world now. There could
have been a version of the movie like that, And
I think it would have been one filled with regret
and longing on George's part because he doesn't have Mary.
(11:15):
I don't think that the movie is about how George
chose one right path and he has to be made
to see it. In some ways. The point of the
movie is that there are lots of paths that we
can choose, and any path you choose is going to
have joy in it, and it's also going to have
regret in it. And how do you come to peace
(11:37):
with the path that you've chosen. How do you accept
that whatever life you're living is the wonderful life that
you were meant to live? And how do you do
that before it's too late? So, yeah, I don't have
a lot of patience for the idea that Mary trapped George.
I think that George is where he wanted to be,
(11:58):
and that doesn't mean he's not going to have periods
of wondering what his life would have looked like if
he had chosen something else.
Speaker 4 (12:06):
Clarence, Yes, George, where's Mary?
Speaker 18 (12:10):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (12:11):
Well, I can't. I don't know how you know these things.
But tell me where is she?
Speaker 19 (12:15):
If you know where she.
Speaker 4 (12:16):
Is, tell me where my wife is. I'm not supposed
to tell. Please, Clarence, tell me where she is.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
You're not going to like it, George, where is she?
Speaker 4 (12:23):
She's an old maid, she never married.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
Where's Murray?
Speaker 4 (12:26):
Where is she?
Speaker 21 (12:27):
Where is she She's just.
Speaker 4 (12:28):
About the coast up the library.
Speaker 18 (12:31):
It's almost like she ended up a carmelite nun, right
like in a monastery, because nobody, nobody had the charm
of George Bailey, nobody had the sex appeal of you know,
nobody's saying buffalo girls once you come out tonight with her.
And as a result, you know, she never had sex ever.
You know, it's like, I don't know, it's I guess
(12:54):
I've never bought that.
Speaker 21 (12:55):
I have no doubt in my mind that even in
the alternate reality, Mary would have still been in this
very strong, independent woman.
Speaker 14 (13:02):
The most common complaint about Wonderful Life may be Mary's
fate in the universe where her spouse George Bailey was
never born.
Speaker 19 (13:10):
Looked at from our modern perspective, the two options presented
to her are spinster dumb or having a husband and kids.
Speaker 14 (13:19):
This is Emily Saint James media and culture critic.
Speaker 19 (13:23):
And yet I think, if you like, look around the
edges of this movie, it's more complicated than that.
Speaker 12 (13:28):
Marry Mary, carry it to George.
Speaker 14 (13:37):
Don't you know me?
Speaker 3 (13:37):
What happened to us?
Speaker 17 (13:38):
I don't know you like me?
Speaker 6 (13:39):
Gory?
Speaker 4 (13:40):
Please, well, don't do this to me, Please marry Who
are kids I mean to marry? Help me?
Speaker 8 (13:49):
Let me go, Charlie. But my wife.
Speaker 19 (14:06):
I think what is interesting is it's not that she
lacks for options for marriage. She has plenty. It's that
she wants to marry George and has since she was
a kid. So if she doesn't marry him, she's going
to get a job at the library. And like, yes,
the film kind of treats that as a tragedy. But
I think both in the way that Donna Reid plays
it and in the ways that you can sort of
think about the movie's internal logic, I don't think it's
(14:29):
treated as a curse so much as it's treated as
like these two people were meant to be together and
they're not together. I think it's more complicated than you know,
the read of it that is, like, oh my gosh,
this movie thinks working at the library is the worst
thing that could happen, and being single is the worst
thing that could happen. This movie thinks Mary and George
belong together, and it carries with it sexist assumptions about that,
(14:51):
but like it deep down just thinks these two people
make each other better and Honestly, if two people make
each other better, maybe they should be married. I'll believe
that today.
Speaker 22 (15:01):
I went back to college in Indiana, went to DePauw
University for a while, and then transferred to Western Washington University,
which is how I ended up in this part of
Washington State.
Speaker 14 (15:12):
You've met Monica previously, Frank Kapra's granddaughter. Here, she's again
speaking alongside her daughter.
Speaker 22 (15:20):
Hannah, and I graduated from there, got a teaching degree,
and now I'm an elementary librarian.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
I went to Western Washington University like she did for
my undergrad and traveled around a bit, lived in Alaska
for a little while, and then went and got my
master's degree in Library information science from Syracuse and then
I now work in records management for the EPA So Library. Jason,
for sure, I think it's hilarious.
Speaker 22 (15:47):
But I think my grandfather really loved books, and he
and my grandmother was a huge book collector, and they
had a rare book collection that was quite famous for
a while there. But it's funny because it was. It's
sort of ironic in our family. Now it's like, oh
my gosh, she's as a library, you know, Like what
(16:08):
a terrible thing.
Speaker 21 (16:09):
You know, being librarian, it's not an easy job. You
don't just shelve books all day. Your progressive, critical analytical thinker,
you are somebody who you know has a strong focus
and concentration. I think that makes you a lot stronger
as a person, that you know how to have conversations,
you know how to talk to people.
Speaker 14 (16:26):
Tanya Hussein, a writer and editor, thinks looking at Mary's
outcome without George as a tragedy does a disservice to
her and to librarians.
Speaker 21 (16:37):
Seeing Mary for me is somebody who is very independent
in both realms. When she's married with George, in you know,
the life with all the children, she's doing a great job.
She takes care of her family. She's like the utmost
definition of feminism and the fact that she knew exactly
what she wanted. Mary will always be a feminist in
both lives. Librarians back in the forties they actually made
(17:00):
quite a lot. They've made eighteen thousand wages versus the
average worker making twelve thousand a year, and that was
been endowed by the Carnegie Foundation. Saying that she's an
old maid and she resorted to nothing, it's ridiculous.
Speaker 7 (17:14):
I would be remiss if I did not mention that
Amerna Public Library was voted best library in Westchester County
and we are super proud of that.
Speaker 14 (17:22):
I brought you briefly to Mamerineck, New York in a
previous episode where Norman Rockwell grew up. This is Jennifer O'Neill,
their librarian.
Speaker 7 (17:32):
I have crowds revia librarian, but library director is a
totally different set of skills.
Speaker 10 (17:36):
I managed people and.
Speaker 7 (17:40):
Helped manage this facility, manage the budget, and have all
of our dealings with external community as well. I report
to the board. I'm their only employee. These are all
my employees here. We have an open position currently for
fifty five thousand dollars. It's not common to own your
(18:03):
own home when you work at a library. I have
some librarians who are married and have been in the
profession for a long time, but there's spouse probably makes
more than they do to make that a possibility.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
See if you were to ask me to say a
George Bailey type here, I would say Leslie.
Speaker 9 (18:25):
Nope.
Speaker 14 (18:25):
Frank Capra's great granddaughter again. Hannah a super fan of
television show Parks and Recreation with actor Amy Poehler playing
small town leader Leslie Nope.
Speaker 23 (18:37):
I haven't vac seen it all the way through three times.
It is about a main character named Leslie Nope, who
is the deputy director of the Parks and Recreation Department
of Pawnee, Indiana, and she cares very deeply about her
community and the people around her, and she just wants
to make everyone's lives better. And she runs into roadblocks
(18:58):
that are her coworkers in the community that she serves,
but she attempts to overcome those and successfully does on
multiple occasions and helps show them that their community is
great and that they can help you out in small,
meaningful ways.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
Every day.
Speaker 14 (19:13):
During college, Hannah would watch the show weekly with a
group of friends as each episode aired on NBC.
Speaker 23 (19:20):
Yeah, it was just a bunch of us who all
we were all finishing college or had just finished college,
so we were all like about to go out into
the world, right, and we saw Leslie as an example
of what to do in the world. Her motto is
always just try your hardest and try your best. I
think a lot of us have carried that with us
since then.
Speaker 14 (19:36):
Leslie's best friend, Anne Perkins, is played by Rashida Jones,
whose grandfather, you'll recall, played that special role in Seeing
Wonderful Life End Up The People's movie.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
One of my best friends.
Speaker 23 (19:50):
We have a joke that I'm the Anne Perkins to
her Leslie No, because she's like really the go getter
between the two of us, and she's the one who,
like she will push me to go try new things,
or to learn more about an issue, or to just
get more involved. And I love their friendship. It's so
just lovely and beautiful, like they're not ashamed how much
they care for each other. You can talk about the
(20:11):
Bechdel test too, if you want to hear. At very
base level of feminism for a television show is two
women on screen, both who have names, who are talking
a conversation about something other than man and parks, and
rec just flew right by that, I think maybe in
one of the first scenes, because Leslie and Ann are
introduced immediately to each other and they're talking about a park.
(20:33):
So you just kind of knew right away that this
show was gonna not pit women against each other but
hopefully help uplift them.
Speaker 24 (20:41):
Good evening, everyone, and welcome to the event we are
doing tonight. Which is a city council candidate debate that
we're going to start now.
Speaker 9 (20:48):
It's going to affect your decisions as a city counselor.
Speaker 20 (20:51):
I want to run this town like a business. My opponent,
Leslie Nope, has a very anti business agenda. Recently, my
dad told me that if Leslie Nope wins the election,
they'll probably have to move Sweetens to Mexico. That would
be terrible. Of course, thousands of people in this town
would lose their jobs and we all wouldn't have candy. Now,
(21:14):
I'm not saying that is gonna happen, but I do
know this. If I win, I bet I could get
them to stay soaking stuff.
Speaker 22 (21:27):
I'm very angry.
Speaker 25 (21:29):
I'm angry that Bobby Newport would hold this town hostage
and threaten to leave if you don't give him what
he wants.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
It's despicable.
Speaker 25 (21:40):
Corporations are not allowed to dictate what a city needs.
That power belongs to the people. Bobby Newport and his
daddy would like you to think it belongs to them.
I'd love this town, and when you love something, you
don't threaten it, you don't punish it, You fight for it,
(22:01):
you take care of it. You put it first as
your city councilor I will make sure that no one
takes advantage of Pawnee. This is my home, you or
my family, and I promise you I'm not going anywhere.
Speaker 20 (22:22):
Holy Leslie, that was awesome.
Speaker 14 (22:27):
Of course, you'll remember that before Amy Poehler was Leslie Nope,
early in her career she was Mary Hatch in the
parody Escape from Wonderful Life, co created by Jay Martil.
Speaker 18 (22:40):
The one thing I noticed when we're taking apart the
movie was what a strong character she was, which again
would have been very easy to underwrite that character, make
her like arm candy for George. And I fell in
love with that actress when I was watching that movie
over and over again, and she's it's like an amazing
(23:01):
it's an amazing performance right in the way that she
in some ways represents the great part of the town
is embody and Mary right.
Speaker 14 (23:11):
The original film gives us one version, but now thanks
to Jay and Amy, we have the opportunity to see
another stranger version. George is trying to escape from the
film because it's been running for so long and he's
so tired of the part of living in Bedford Falls
(23:31):
being George Bailey, that is until Mary takes his place.
Speaker 18 (23:37):
Clarence, Yes, George, where's Mary?
Speaker 4 (23:41):
Well?
Speaker 9 (23:41):
I can't age.
Speaker 18 (23:43):
And you've gotten to tell me where is she? Is
it a Polish art movie? Oh my god, it's not
a pornal or.
Speaker 17 (23:48):
You really don't want to know where he is?
Speaker 18 (23:49):
Clarence, tell me where she is?
Speaker 19 (23:51):
You're not gonna like it.
Speaker 14 (23:52):
George, where she she's playing?
Speaker 9 (23:53):
George Bailey.
Speaker 14 (23:55):
It's a wonderful eye overent not far off. She's shooting
the scene outside the middle of the morning.
Speaker 17 (24:06):
All right, uncle Billy, see tomorrow, Laura, Okay.
Speaker 18 (24:13):
Mary, what the hell are you doing wearing my hat
on my clothes? Are you crazy?
Speaker 15 (24:20):
Mary?
Speaker 8 (24:22):
Mary?
Speaker 11 (24:23):
Mary?
Speaker 6 (24:24):
Marry Marry Mary?
Speaker 14 (24:28):
How dare you steal my part?
Speaker 18 (24:29):
I'll shaved you.
Speaker 22 (24:30):
From the dorsh hot Dog.
Speaker 18 (24:32):
I'm George, I'm George Bley.
Speaker 14 (24:34):
What the heck are you doing?
Speaker 18 (24:35):
Prying up?
Speaker 6 (24:35):
Baby?
Speaker 3 (24:35):
What's going on?
Speaker 8 (24:36):
Mary? George?
Speaker 9 (24:40):
I'm George Bailey.
Speaker 4 (24:42):
George to George?
Speaker 14 (24:43):
Why are you George's Hi to George.
Speaker 10 (24:46):
He's ruining the movie again?
Speaker 3 (24:48):
Roll thing my movie?
Speaker 14 (24:49):
Hi made this movie?
Speaker 4 (24:50):
What it is? She can.
Speaker 18 (24:54):
Because that's George is trying to get away from the
town George is trying to get away from Mary. Jory's
trying to get from commitment. Joined just trying to get
away from growing up, from all the things you have
to do as an adult, the sacrifices you have to make.
You know your dreams right, like everyone, no matter how
successful you are, you know, you get married and you
(25:16):
have kids. There's things that fall by the wayside. And
that's and but Mary's it's all so well done.
Speaker 14 (25:26):
If you wanted to imagine what things would be like
if Mary, not George, was actualized to be the recognized
leader regarding events in Bedford Falls, you'd need look no
further than the only attempt at a remake, the nineteen
seventy seven TV movie It Happened One Christmas, made during
(25:47):
the era when the world believed Wonderful Life was in
public domain. Nearly a shot for shot, line for line,
redo it did just that, swapping the gender of the
protagonist with Marlowe Thomas, the actor coming off her hit
TV show That Girl, as Mary Bailey, daughter of Peter Bailey.
(26:08):
Here she's the one with the big dreams who stands
up to Potter, this time played in a marvelous bit
of casting by Orson Wills.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
Now, wait just a minute, here, Oka here, Mary, Your
father was no business man, and business is what we're
here to discuss, no matter how said I am at
his passing.
Speaker 20 (26:28):
Ah, that's wonderful coming from you, Potter, considering you probably
sent him to his grave.
Speaker 9 (26:33):
Ridiculous.
Speaker 8 (26:33):
You're what's ridiculous, mister Potter.
Speaker 9 (26:36):
You never could beat my father.
Speaker 6 (26:37):
Could you?
Speaker 17 (26:38):
An?
Speaker 4 (26:38):
You're a preposterous girl, Mary Bitter, hurry after Europe, right,
one of.
Speaker 14 (26:42):
Those books you deal better in fiction in real life.
Speaker 3 (26:45):
You think I couldn't have crushed this nickel and dime
operation in a day if I'd wanted to, Well.
Speaker 10 (26:49):
Maybe this is a nickel and dime operation.
Speaker 8 (26:52):
And frankly, why anybody would want to spend their life
doing it is beyond me.
Speaker 17 (26:56):
But Peter Bailey dedicated his life to it, and you
people should understand what you're giving up before you knuckle
under them.
Speaker 25 (27:01):
Let's not get you should get excited.
Speaker 23 (27:04):
I'm leaving.
Speaker 10 (27:05):
You're the ones that have to stay here.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
He should understand that a.
Speaker 9 (27:08):
Man like Ernie Baker being able to buy his own
taxi you have and own his own house.
Speaker 12 (27:13):
Yeah, taxi driver, My father knew what gave people's self respect.
Speaker 9 (27:18):
When Potter here gouges them for his company shacks, he
steals from them a lot more than just the money.
Speaker 10 (27:24):
He steals their dignity.
Speaker 12 (27:25):
And you may not think that shows up on some
financial sheet.
Speaker 8 (27:28):
For a hardware store or matters to a doctor or
a judge, But just watch what happens to all of
you if.
Speaker 10 (27:34):
You let him win.
Speaker 12 (27:36):
Monica his I have no doubt that Mary, I have
no doubt that Mary could run, could run the business.
It's really interesting to puzzle through this to separate what
was George's dream and what was Mary's dream, because, like
we were talking about, Mary's dream was to be with George.
(27:59):
And I'm think that if she wasn't going to be
with George, there's a good chance she wasn't going to
be in Bedford Falls. She would have gone elsewhere. She
would have found she would have found a bigger life,
and it would have been a good life. But I
don't know that it would have been in Bedford Falls.
(28:22):
In some ways, the two of them together are what
make the Bedford Falls existence, you know, possible and meaningful.
Speaker 16 (28:32):
Fascinator to hear Jimmy tell how it's a wonderful life
encouraged him to keep making movies. Well, it had an
entirely different effect on me.
Speaker 14 (28:41):
This is Donna Reed, the actor who brought Mary Hatch
to life.
Speaker 16 (28:46):
When I finished making that film, I thought perhaps I
might not make any more movies. I suppose I knew
on some deep level that I would never have another
experience in a film to equal it.
Speaker 10 (29:01):
We all worked hard.
Speaker 16 (29:03):
I never worked harder in my whole life.
Speaker 10 (29:07):
There was never a letup, never a let down.
Speaker 16 (29:11):
But I certainly never dreamed that people would be looking
at it. It's a wonderful life every Christmas Eve for
the next thirty five years. Frank, I am very grateful
and beholden to you for letting me be Mary Bailey.
Speaker 10 (29:32):
Thank you, she and my dad. You know, after she
won the Oscar in nineteen fifty four, From Here to Eternity,
she ended up in all these b westerns. She couldn't
stand it, and Hollywood didn't really know what to do
with her, so they looked into starting their own production company.
They made a couple of movies and then tried television.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
You know.
Speaker 10 (29:54):
It was on for eight years. It was extremely popular.
Speaker 14 (29:57):
Mary Owen is one of two biolog children born to
Donna Reed and her producer husband Tony Owen. Like Jimmy Stewart,
Mary also adopted two children with Tony, but they would
divorce after their hit television series The Donna Reed Show ended.
Speaker 10 (30:14):
There is in season two an episode on The Donna
Reed Show Helped Just a housewife and it's really fun
and in a way, she kind of brings feminism to
this small town hill deal in which the show is set,
unlike today where things are kind of heavy handed and
sort of hit you over the head. It's pretty cute
and it's done very well.
Speaker 4 (30:35):
Hello again, Direct from a Courus Supermarket, we present The
Housewives Corner, the radio show that brings your laughs, tears
to say.
Speaker 10 (30:44):
Nothing, your boggins. Yeah. She's in the grocery store and
there's a guy who has a show and he's interviewing
women and he always asks them what do you do?
And they always say, I'm just a housewife. And my
mother starts commenting on that and realizing that not only
are you diminishing yourself by saying that, but then what
she tries to define all the things that that means
(31:05):
to be a housewife.
Speaker 14 (31:06):
And what do you do? Missus burns?
Speaker 9 (31:08):
Oh, I'm just a housewife, Terry.
Speaker 8 (31:11):
If you ever noticed how women seem to apologize when
they say that.
Speaker 16 (31:15):
Men don't say I'm just a salesman, I'm just a scientist.
Speaker 10 (31:18):
And then you don't say you're just a doctor, Dollie.
Speaker 14 (31:21):
Why take exception to a word? You are a housewife?
Speaker 16 (31:24):
But not the way he used it, laughing boy makes
it sound like a faceless glog, Alex.
Speaker 6 (31:32):
It isn't that I object to doing housework.
Speaker 8 (31:35):
I just don't want to be known as just a housewife.
Speaker 14 (31:39):
Donna Reed becomes a lightning rod of controversy among espoused
feminists in the nineteen sixties.
Speaker 10 (31:45):
Of course, I never really told people who my mother
was until I felt I could trust them. But I
suffered deeply because that way the feminism just really hated
what she represented on the show, which was hard because
I mean, she was a businesswoman. It was her name
on the show. I mean, it wasn't like the other
(32:08):
family shows where she just kind of sat around and
you know, baked cookies or whatever. She was pretty active.
Speaker 14 (32:14):
Of all the towns and cities in America in which
the modern female equality movement might have gotten started, it
happened in Seneca Falls. The town we've established shares the
same space in your universe that Bedford Falls does in
Georgia's and Mary's. I'm taking you to the remnants of
the Wesleyan Chapel, a very old brick building now part
(32:37):
of America's Women's Rights National Historical Park. This is where
the convention took place that kicked it all off.
Speaker 5 (32:45):
Following the Revolutionary War, it was a period of time
where the United States is really trying to figure out
who we were and what it meant to be an American,
what it meant to be a citizen, what it meant
to really fully participate in society, and they rallied a
(33:05):
lot of folks around the cause of abolition. So this
notion of equality starts to snowball and really kind of
comes to a head in Seneca Falls in eighteen forty eight.
Speaker 14 (33:18):
Danene Waller is one of the leaders of this much
visited origin monument to female equality.
Speaker 5 (33:25):
Elizabeth Katie Stanton, her father was a practicing lawyer and
then a judge, and she worked in his law office.
She was able to take her education much further than
most women of the time, but she was continually frustrated
that she could not participate in her father's law practice
because she was a woman, and so she got heavily
(33:48):
involved in abolition through Henry Stanton. And at this convention
she met Lucretia Mott and they became good friends and
the injustice of this and at the beginning of the convention,
Elizabeth Katie Stanton read a document called the Declaration of Sentiments.
We hold these truths to be self evident, that all
(34:08):
men and women are created equal. And over the course
of two days they refined it and then voted to
ratify it, and at the end of the convention they
brought together a list of resolutions of statements that dictated
how they were going to move forward as activists for
(34:29):
women's rights.
Speaker 12 (34:30):
I think that for Mary getting involved in the feminist movement,
it would come from a place of her own internal
sense of dignity, self worth, and idea of what is
right in the world.
Speaker 14 (34:46):
Once again, you're hearing Monica Hiss, So it.
Speaker 12 (34:50):
Would come from a space of of course, all people
should be treated equal and women should be treated equally too,
And it would be more of a establishment version of feminism.
It would be a let's go through the proper channels
let's have voter registration drives, let's you know, supporting certain candidates.
(35:15):
I could actually see that Violet, after going through a
life of being underestimated and marginalized and treated as a
fluzy and all of that.
Speaker 8 (35:26):
Excuse me, I think I got a date, but stick
around though it is just in case him.
Speaker 4 (35:35):
Well wait for you, baby.
Speaker 14 (35:36):
Monica sees George's one time love interest turn friend, Violet Big,
as a likely candidate to become a certain kind of feminist.
Speaker 12 (35:46):
I could see her being much more of a like,
burn your broad, tear down the establishment feminist at the
end of the day, because she wouldn't have been coming
from a place of the security and for the most
part things will work out kind of kind of background
that Mary came from, I could see. I could see
(36:07):
Violet being much more of a figure who wanted to
operate outside of the political system and outside of political norms.
You know, Mary would be the one who would be
hosting a fundraising dinner for Kamala Harris, and Violet would
be the one wearing a pink pussy hat marching on
the mall. I think that those would be in like
(36:27):
a modern day setting. I think that those would be
the roles that I could see them.
Speaker 2 (36:32):
Taking with me.
Speaker 15 (36:33):
I know, especially because I'm single and I have a
business and I seem to have my shit together. People
talk about me all the time like I'm this wild
whatever I am, people give me a hard time to
be a woman in business.
Speaker 14 (36:46):
You came to know Twila Keeler in a previous episode,
the one who grudgingly agreed with some Seneca Falls residents
that she might at one time have fit the description
of the real Violet Big.
Speaker 15 (37:01):
Doesn't everyone look for their soilmates and if they're lucky
enough today? Kind of Yeah. I was pregnant at sixteen.
We got married, lived together a couple of years, but
he was mean. He was a mean person. It was crazy.
I felt like I loved him enough to cut my
right arm off for him. But then later on I thought,
what a voice of a good loom that would have been.
My oldest daughter is now an anesthesiologist. She's amazing.
Speaker 14 (37:24):
Eventually, Twyla met a man she still feels was what
she calls a soulmate.
Speaker 15 (37:30):
When I kissed him the first time, I literally felt
like I was seeing fireworks. That was the father of
my second.
Speaker 14 (37:37):
Two Twila and Violet are both hairdressers, but Violet never
started her own so long, which of course Twyla did
in Seneca Falls.
Speaker 15 (37:47):
A woman in business is tough. Here. I'll give you
an example. When I could open my business, I wanted
to probably like a ten persons one. I put this
all business plan, business seemed together. I was going to
get home. So I brought it into a bank and
I was sitting with the loan officer and so I
give him this folder, and we've listened to it, and goes,
(38:08):
who did this for you? And I said I did it.
He didn't believe I did it because I was a woman.
Didn't think I had a smart enough to put something together.
I guess.
Speaker 9 (38:19):
I was a little bit of a George Bailey. Afraid
of getting stuck in Bedford Falls.
Speaker 14 (38:23):
Lorielyn Dean founded the trail blazing fempunk rock trio Zuzu's Pedals.
Speaker 9 (38:29):
I was turning into that person staying in the college
town and getting older in their twenties, and I starting
to feel like a loser, and I started making big
plans for myself to get the heck out of Dodge.
I started a band after a health scare. At that point,
having found out at twenty four that I have multiple sclerosis,
(38:51):
I sort of threw all caution into the wind and said,
I want to be in a band. I'd been trying
to do that in Madison. Minneapolis is where it's happening
right now. I went up there on a Greyhound bus
and started my new life in Minneapolis. One of my
jobs early on in Minneapolis was I worked in a library.
(39:11):
So perhaps I'm more like Mary Hatch in that regard.
I was a big dreamer, like George Bailey.
Speaker 14 (39:17):
Unlike Mary Laurie in the nineteen eighties has big dreams
for herself that don't involve any man.
Speaker 9 (39:26):
Minneapolis at the time it's a beautiful Midwestern city and
it had all of the best music in the country.
As far as I was concerned. At that time. There
was Prince he was the resident superstar, and then there
were bands like the Replacements in Hohoskerdoo and Soul Asylum
and the Jayhawks. I knew some of these guys because
I had roommates from Minneapolis in college who grew up
(39:49):
with these guys, So it was sort of, of course,
I'm moving to Minneapolis.
Speaker 15 (39:55):
Oh.
Speaker 9 (39:55):
I didn't mention yet that I didn't know how to
play the guitar yet, but I was determined that it
was going to happen.
Speaker 14 (40:03):
It's then, while suffering health problems that are worrying her
that she sees a moment in Wonderful Life that inspires
her to name her new band.
Speaker 9 (40:13):
My parents had just been divorced. It was the first
Christmas with them not together. It was very awkward, weird,
broken family sitting on the couch on Christmas Eve, lamenting,
and I told my little brother and sister to watch
this movie that's about to be on because I just
saw it and it's an amazing Christmas movie. So the
three of us sat and watched It's a Wonderful Life,
(40:35):
And when the zuzuz Pedals scene came on, my brother
turned to me and he said, that's what you should
call your band. And starting the band was a thing
that made me feel back in my life.
Speaker 4 (40:48):
They are.
Speaker 14 (40:50):
What do you know about that very.
Speaker 9 (40:54):
So zuzu pedals, and the symbolism of being back in
your flawed life resonated with exactly what was going on
with me at the time.
Speaker 26 (41:11):
Wake Up, the Zuzu's Pedals hit, Cinderella's Greed and other
big songs began to put them on the map.
Speaker 14 (41:24):
As they say, you know.
Speaker 9 (41:26):
People like go oh, that was a lot of fun.
You know, you were pretty good for girls. What's it
like being a girl in a band? Get that constantly?
And there was another all women band in town who
had taken off immediately, Babes in Toyland, So we were
sort of in their dust. But there were a lot
of women starting to form and be in bands at
(41:48):
that time. Yeah, we were treated like prostitutes pretty much
at first. Mary Hatch, I mean, I mean that suggests
fertility right there, you know, last name, and yeah, I
mean I think she was. She seemed progressive and smart
(42:10):
to me compared to some of the other characters in
the movie.
Speaker 14 (42:17):
While Zuzu's Pedals blazes a trail to success, Laurie also
begins dating Paul Westerberg, the frontman of the band The Replacements.
That really starts gribing attention. You know, the songs can't
Hardly Wait, I Will Dare Swinging Party, and Laurie begins
(42:37):
to feel the plight of Mary Hatch, a talented woman
stuck being the woman behind the man.
Speaker 9 (42:44):
We really fell in love and I saw at a
point with the band, and it was getting really intense,
and I was starting to get singled out as the voice,
the face, the represent and that was not at all
how we worked, and it made me very uncomfortable. And
(43:08):
I was getting really tired from the road, and Paul
was had just gone solo. So and we bought a house,
and I think I decided he didn't decide that we
can't both be doing this, especially if we want a family.
So I just sort of focused on making a home
(43:32):
and becoming a mother for a while. But you know,
my art completely took the back seat to his. And
you know, he didn't asked me to do it, but
I understood that that's what had to happen for this
to work. So in that way, I relate to marry
a great deal. I kept the house together, I kept
(43:54):
all the Johnny stuff together. I, you know, in Paul
could be Paul, and whether that meant touring or disappearing
in the basement for six months and cranking out a
record or whatever, I definitely ran the show while we
were together. So I can relate to Mary in that respect.
(44:16):
She's the one who kept them together. She was solid
as a rock. And you know, I'm so glad she
didn't go with Sam Waywright, who was a dick and
was totally cheated on her.
Speaker 14 (44:27):
If you would like to see your universe more closely
resemble the reality of Bedford Falls rather than Pottersville, perhaps
you should look no further than empowering women like Mary
Hatch and Laurie Lyn Dean, who have long been carrying
the would be George Bailey's many in your universe, speculate
(44:49):
as to what might have happened to Mary and George
after the last moments you see them at the end
of Wonderful Life. What kind of life would Mary lead?
Will she can continue to be the shadow of George,
or will she find a way to take a little
more control of her life? Or perhaps everything is just
the way it should be. Monica Hiss has an idea
(45:12):
of what might be in store for those two heroes
in that universe.
Speaker 12 (45:18):
Yeah, So, for one thing, I hope that after the
happy ending, George has had enough of a revelation in
his own life that he no longer needs Mary's emotional
support quite as much. Like he is, he comes to
(45:38):
peace with whatever his own life looks like, like if
he's continuing at the building alone, he's doing it, he's
doing it with a sense of purpose, and he's doing
it happily, or he's whatever he's doing. Mary doesn't need
to worry about her husband's happiness in the way that
(46:02):
she has. I can really see her coming into her
own at the end of this movie. I can see
her becoming involved in early versions of the civil rights movement.
I can see her organizing.
Speaker 2 (46:18):
Sort of.
Speaker 12 (46:20):
Early versions of meetings related to women's liberation, and not
in a radical way, but in a really in a
really thoughtful way, based on her knowledge of what she
can do as a strong woman and what she believes
other women were capable of doing.
Speaker 14 (46:40):
In the previous episode, you came to know Philip van
doren Stern, the writer of the original story from which
the film Wonderful Life sprang. When he failed to find
any magazines to publish the story, he decided to send
it out in Christmas cards. This is his daughter, Marguerite.
Speaker 11 (47:00):
I was in the third grade and remember delivering a
few of these cards to my teachers and friends. My father,
who was himself from a mixed religious background, explained to
me that while the story takes place at Christmas time
and then we were sending it as a Christmas card
to our friends. It is a universal story for all
people in all times.
Speaker 14 (47:19):
Inspired by her father's work and wonderful life, Marguerite would
go on to make a far greater impact on your
world than George and Mary could have ever dreamed, helping
develop and popularize something called microfinance.
Speaker 11 (47:35):
Michael Finance made an impression on me at an early age.
My late father, Philip van Dornstern, wrote a story called
The Greatest Gift that was made into a movie titled
It's a Wonderful Life. The film, which I saw many
times while growing up, is about the owner, led by
Jimmy Stewart, of a small town building and loan institution,
who fights the local establishment to provide financial services to
(47:59):
the town's working for The movie's message seems to have
sunk deep into my subconscious to emerge many years later.
Speaker 14 (48:07):
The three granddaughters of Philip Van Door and Stern you've
heard several times over this podcast, Laura, Peren and Sarah,
spent their childhoods in places like India and Indonesia and
Sri Lanka with their mother, an impactful anthropologist. By the way. Interestingly,
Jimmy Stewart's daughter Kelly, whom you've also heard several times
(48:30):
in this podcast, also became an impactful anthropologist. As of
others you've heard, he's Marguerite's daughter Laura.
Speaker 6 (48:39):
One of the things that she did talk about when
I was growing up is how seeing a woman had
some benefits in being an anthropologist and going to world
places all over the world. If she'd been a man,
she wouldn't have been able to talk to all of
the women. She wouldn't have been allowed to engage with
all of the women and with the children. Even though
she was a woman, she was allowed to engage with
(48:59):
the men because she was a foreigner and she was
so different from everybody. She was from the outside.
Speaker 11 (49:05):
Some years ago, I was talking with a family of
Milana poly Tellitz. It was during the monsoon and we
were sitting on the mud floor in their small, crowded
and windowless house, which provided only the minimal protection from
the driving rain. I had been working for several days
to try and understand certain intradulate cast relationships. When I finished,
(49:27):
one of the men said to me, we are pleased
that you are interested in us, that you visit our houses,
and that you sit and talk with us. We try
to tell you whatever you want to know, but there
is something we cannot understand. We are sitting here in
the mud because this is all that we have. Can
you not see that we are cold and wet, that
(49:48):
we are poor and have nothing. You, on the other hand,
are educated and wealthy. Why do you want only to
sit here and learn about our customs? Why do you
not also use knowledge and resources to help us make
better customs.
Speaker 6 (50:03):
That's kind of the moment when she recognized that what
she was doing was learning about, you know, the world's
poorest people and how they were living could be used
in a practical manner to try to make their lives
better on a you know, top down from you know,
government advising to bottom up, you know, talking to people
to see what problems they really face and just try
(50:24):
to understand what are the solutions and how to we
find them. And that's how she got into microfinance and
micro banking.
Speaker 14 (50:32):
It's been estimated that this groundbreaking approach to poverty reduction
has impacted the lives of over one hundred million people
around the world. Pioneered by the daughter of one of
the creators of Wonderful Life, this is likely the greatest
impact on your world of the influence of that little
(50:53):
Christmas movie.
Speaker 6 (50:55):
The Potters of the world are still here, but the
Vaileys of the world are still here too, and it
really makes a difference. And I think a lot of
people equate profitability with Potter. But that's the big mistake.
You don't need to be greedy, right. Greed is its
own separate source of evil. Greed is when you take
(51:16):
everything for yourself. But profitability can lend to sustainability and
growth and provide opportunities for everyone. So it's really about
the democratization of the access to capital and its real meanings.
But that was the key insight and it turned out
(51:37):
to be really true, and it's true. It's around the
world almost one hundred years later from when the banking
scene hates place, and it's a wonderful life, right, And
it's literally exactly the same set of issues. It's really
quite stunning. Okay. So in two thousand and one, Equity
Bank in Kenya went from twenty four million in assets
(51:58):
to one billion. In two thousand and one. Equity was
a building a loan society, literally, a building a loan
society exactly liked the Bailey building and loans and if
they really had a vision, and the vision was about
the better quality of life for their clients and to
increase their income to make to give them a better life.
And these are literally the I mean, it's literally what
(52:20):
George Bailey is doing. And they really succeeded in a
dramatic way. She got to do what George Bailey never
got to do. Together with their good works, they can
they can create opportunity for all going to make and
continue to make a difference.
Speaker 24 (52:41):
George Bailey was never born. Visit Savegeorge Bailey dot com
to join the mission. There you'll find links to works
by this episode's participants. Learn more about how to celebrate
George Bailey Day on Saturday, December ninth, and annually the
second Saturday of December hereafter by hosting your own Wonderful
Life party. Tell your friends to listen to this show, subscribe, like, comment,
(53:04):
and post about it on social media hashtag Save George Bailey.
Subscribe to our Patreon to hear uncut interviews and bonus content.
The podcast also available on YouTube. iHeartMedia presents a double asterisk.
iHeartMedia co production in association with True Stories Created, written
and directed by Joseph kurt Angfer and Rayno Vashlski. Kurt Angfer,
(53:27):
producer and supervising editor, Reno Vashlsky, producer and journalist, Elizabeth Marcus, editor,
Roy Sillings narrator, George Bailey. Theme song by Carolyn Sills.
Buy Your Albums soundtrack composed by Zachary Walter by His
Albums and the original soundtrack to this podcast available wherever
you get your music. Mallory Keenoi co producer, writer's assistant,
(53:51):
archival producer, in fact checker and co writer for this episode.
John Autry, sound engineer, additional editing, sound design and mix.
Executive producers Dave Cassidy, kurt Angfer, Lindsay Hoffman and Bethann
Macaluso for iHeartMedia, John Duffy for Double Asterisk, Ruth Vaka
for True Stories, Reyno Voshewsky for Double Asterisk and True Stories,
(54:14):
Elizabeth Hankuch Associate producer, Brandon Lavoy and Ryan Pennington. Consulting
producers Keith Sklar, contract Legal, Peter Yazi Copyright and Fair
Use Legal, Matti Akres archival specialist, ron Kaddition, Benji Michaels
publicists Kavasanthanam and Marley Weaver. Marketing and Promotions. Art and
(54:36):
web designed by Aaron Kim. Interns were Kyra Gray, Emma Ramirez,
Eva Stewart and Tya Wilson. Podcast license for Philip Van
Doren Stearns The Greatest Gift provided by the Greatest Gift Corporation.
Their attorney is Kevin Koloff. Recorded at David Weber's Airtime
Studios in Bloomington, Indiana. This episode featured, in chronological order,
(54:58):
Carolyn Sills, Monica, Kelly Gilfoyle, j Martel, Tanya Hussang, Emily Saint, James,
Monica Capra, Hodges, Hannah Ermey, Jennifer O'Neil, Donna Reed, Mary Owen,
Janine Waller representing the Women's Rights National Historical Park, Twilight, Keeler,
Lori Lynden, Laura Robinson, the cast of Wonderful Life, Escape
(55:18):
from Wonderful Life, and the Donna Reed Show, and the
Brief Voices, Music and Artistry of Parks and Recreation. It
happened on Christmas in the American Film Institute Frank Capra
Award Show via clips used under the still existing legal
doctrine of fair use, the Potters are working on that one,
though j Martel provided use of the still never fully
released Escape from Wonderful Life, which he produced and starred in,
(55:39):
alongside performances by the writers Matt Besser, Amy Poehler, Ian
Roberts and Matt Walsh, directed by David Zeffe. The usage
is also fit fair use. The song Cinderella's Dream was
used briefly with Lori Lyndin's permission, written and performed by
Zuzu's Pedals, which is Colleen Elwood on bass and vocals,
Laurie on guitar and vocals, and Linda Pittman on drums,
(56:00):
produced by Lujiardano from Roadrunner Records by their albums. The
voice of Marguerite Stern Robinson was played by her daughter
Peren Robinson, based on words Marguerite wrote for her book
Law of the Fishes and for her afterward to the
edition she published of her father Philip Van Door and
Steren's The Greatest Gift, the original story that inspired the
Christmas classic It's a Wonderful Life. For more on microfinance
(56:22):
by her book The Microfinance Revolution Sustainable Finance. If you're
in Mamerianack, New York, visit the public Library. If you're
in Seneca Falls, visit the Wonderful Life Museum, the Women's
Rights National Historical Park, Drink Like a Girl and Hair
Elegance Between the Locks. Go to double asteriskmedia dot com
to hear our other limited run podcasts, Who Is rich
(56:43):
Blee After the Uprising with a Bold new season in
Saint Louis coming Summer twenty twenty four and Origins Birth
of a Pandemic. And subscribe to True Stories New weekly
Everybody Has a Podcast with Ruth and Ray. If you
were feeling like you're on the bridge, please call the
AFSP's Suicide and Crisis Lifeline by dialing nine eight eight
(57:04):
into your phone, or contact the crisis text line by
texting seven four one dash seven four one. Consider donating
to or volunteering with AFSP or your local Habitat for Humanity,
and make George Bailey proud. We're not affiliated with them
though copyright twenty twenty three Double Asterisk in Ink mar
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