How Do We Know If We Have A Healthy Church? | Alex Duke & Marshall Canales

This week Alex Duke offers insights on how to recognize a healthy church.

Alex explains how his love for storytelling began in childhood, finding comfort in movies after his parents' divorce. This passion led him to create Storms in the Desert, a podcast exploring the slow, steady growth of churches over time.

The discussion contrasts deep, lasting faithfulness with the rapid, flashy growth many associate with modern churches.

Alex also reflects on his megachurch background, recognizing their impact while highlighting the powerful influence of smaller, faithful congregations.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
We pray without ceasing, so we never stop technically.

Speaker 2 (00:05):
Yeah, yeah, that's good, Alex dude, thank you for being here.

Speaker 3 (00:10):
Brother.

Speaker 2 (00:12):
I I've been looking forward to this and I have
been such a fan of the Way for We're gonna
talk about several things, but first of all, the way
you put together a beautiful podcast called Storms in the Desert.
You are. I haven't Marshall introduced us, and I haven't

(00:34):
known you long, but what I do know about you
is you are definitely a storyteller at heart. When did
you first start? When did you first realize you're a storyteller?

Speaker 3 (00:46):
Uh? You know, it's very kind of you. You didn't
prep me with questions. You know, I never do storytelling.

Speaker 2 (00:52):
I wouldn't do that metal.

Speaker 3 (00:54):
You know, maybe regrettably the answer to your question might
be might be so. So. My parents got divorced when
I was ten, uh, and I had a lot of
time on my own as a kid. You know, I
don't mean to pay some like sordid picture. I wasn't,
you know, I wasn't all over twist or anything living

(01:14):
on the streets. But but I found a lot of
solace as even a young middle schooler in going to
the movies or going to Blockbuster, which is like a
brick and mortar Netflix. Uh. You know, so I have
to wonder if the Lord hasn't in part redeemed redeemed
some of that. You know that that just natural knack

(01:37):
for constantly trying to, you know, learn or distract myself
from from stories of other people. I have to wonder
if He hasn't redeemed at least some of that by
giving me, I don't know, a desire to tell some
stories myself.

Speaker 2 (01:51):
That makes completely That actually.

Speaker 3 (01:53):
Is the genesis of it. I mean, I wish I
could say I've been like, you know, self publishing novels
or something since since I was a kid, but that
would that would not be true. So I think that's
part of it.

Speaker 2 (02:04):
That makes perfect sense. And I'll reference that later because
you know your book. You know that I found all
of your movie references in your book. We'll talk about that.
But what I want to unpack, and the reason I
have my Pastor Marshall with us too, is because Marshall
and I have talked on several episodes of this program

(02:25):
about what it means to have a healthy church. Yeah,
and I want to as you you already know this,
But most people listening, I would I would say a
majority people are either searching for what it means to
be involved that a church, or to serve in a church,

(02:46):
or to be served by a church, or they kind
of have their own opinion that of what church should be. Yeah,
and so I think this lately. I've heard a lot
of this, and we all have. But I hear things
like God is moving, a God's on the move, A

(03:07):
God's making a big move right now. You could just tell,
you can tell God's making a big move. And I
always wonder. I always hear that, and I think, isn't
God always moving? Isn't he? Is he always faithful? Isn't
he always patient and persistent and always moving? In some
parts of his story unfold with a bigger dynamic that

(03:28):
we see and we we get the appearance of a
great a great portion of the movement. But isn't he
today in twenty twenty five consistently moving? And you didn't
make that exact argument. But your podcast that you have
that you have produced direct, what do you what's your

(03:48):
role in this podcast?

Speaker 3 (03:49):
Yeah? I don't know. I mean I wrote it, Okay,
I didn't do the like you know Yeoman's work of
like splicing the audio file, and I don't even know
how someone I know who did that, Alberto, May he
be blessed forever. You know. So I don't know whatever
I could. I guess you could say I'm the creator

(04:10):
of it to whatever degree that you know is a
meaningful noun. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (04:14):
So what I'm talking about is this podcast called Storms
in the Desert. You reached out to me, and you
and you texted me and said, hey, you could do
whatever you want. I just wanted to show you the
work I've been doing. If you want to post it,
that's cool. You know. You said it in a very
very humble way, and I was like, well.

Speaker 3 (04:32):
Anytime, I mean, anytime you're asking someone to promote you,
you have to have a little self effacing humor in it,
or it's becomes totally, you know, just impossible. So I
tried to. I tried to make the request request plane
while also making fun of myself or making the request. Tried.

Speaker 2 (04:48):
You did a great job, You did a great job.

Speaker 3 (04:50):
Well here we are. Something happens.

Speaker 2 (04:52):
Well I told you straight up, I said, you know,
I could post it. I could put it on my
Instagram story and no one really cares. You know, hey,
check out my buddy's podcast. You're going to love it.
You know, like maybe five people would go and actually listen.
I think, I mean people, that's just we're flooded with
stuff like that. So I said, what if, actually, Alex,

(05:15):
what if I got you on the podcast and we
talked about what it is because it's something that's not
a one liner. It needs to be really, it needs
to be. We need to talk about it, We need
to have a conversation. So you're you're really what you're
capturing with this podcast? You say it this way. This
is the story of how God uses ordinary ministry of

(05:38):
faithful churches to bring about extraordinary change. Right. Yeah, that
just debunks this whole idea that God is moving dynamically
in these big, big ways here and there and not
in other places. But your argument is, well, yeah.

Speaker 3 (05:56):
I don't want to deny that he can do that
and has of course. But but what I what I
think doesn't get the publicity is the way He often works,
you know, and which is through ordinary churches, churches that
are smaller than even your church or mine. Uh so, yeah,
I'm sorry I interrupted you.

Speaker 2 (06:15):
No, that's good that's good, and we do need the
clarification that, of course, and the cross would be the
epitome of a big movement from God. But I I
think I get the I get this idea that Granger,
you're you're doing, You're gonna do big things for the kingdom.
And I think, to my sometimes I think, are are
you thinking like Billy Graham? Is that like the bigger stadium,

(06:39):
like me being in a stadium? Is that? I think
that's kind of the idea, And that's not that That's
not where my heart is and it's not where your
heart is or Marshals. You make the argument that more
of us need to probably understand that God uses ordinary
ministry of faithful churches to bring about extraordinary change over time.

(07:01):
And you tell the story over five episodes of several
stories of several people that are kind of running parallel lines,
and it's based around more or less a church in Dubai.
You could say it that way, and this church and

(07:23):
a powerful story about it is a church that you
could walk into today, you and I could walk in
then well maybe not you and I.

Speaker 3 (07:32):
Any Yeah, I was just there on Sunday.

Speaker 2 (07:33):
Okay, Well I was going to say someone that doesn't
really think about these kind of things often could walk
in there and go, Eh, nothing too special about this.

Speaker 3 (07:45):
Yeah, So where do we start?

Speaker 2 (07:49):
Where do we start with this idea that God, God
can and oftentimes works slowly over decades with faithful ministry,
often let from the pulpit, to transform communities in radical ways.

Speaker 3 (08:16):
Well, I think we should start with the I think
we should start with the Bible. What do you think, Granger?
Let this is I'm only going to read four verses, Okay,
only four verses, Mark Chapter four, Beginning in verse twenty six,
the Kingdom of God is as if a man should
scatter seed on the ground. He sleeps and rises night
and day, and the seed sprouts and grows. I love

(08:37):
this half verse. He knows not how the earth produces
by itself, first to blade, then the ear, then full
grain in the ear. But when the grain is ripe
at once he puts in the sickle, because the harvest
has come. Now, I'm not going to argue that the
main point in the only instance of this verse is
about like the stuff we're talking about. I simply want
to observe what is a very obvious point that I

(09:00):
think the author of Mark, who is putting words in
Jesus's mouth that I trust that he said, which is
simply that the kingdom grows sort of slowly. So when
we when we think of church growth, where do our
minds go? We go to quick, fast, reproducible. Where does
the where does Jesus' mind go when he thinks of
church growth or kingdom growth? He goes to farming, which

(09:23):
which a little bit like, Okay, I'm on a podcast
right now, a thousand miles from you. I don't I
don't know anything about farming. I don't think. I don't
even think I could name a tool. I don't even
know what a sickle looks like. Is that the thing
that reaper holds? I think I don't know. But like
I heard someone say recently about this passage, try to
watch a plant grow. You will never see it grow.

(09:49):
But if you do the right stuff, water, et cetera,
whatever plants need, uh, it will grow. And I think
the kingdom is kind of like that, Like are generally speaking,
not in every case, but generally speaking, healthy growth in
a church is going to be like that. You can't
see it in a moment, you can't observe it over

(10:11):
the course of an hour or even a week or
even a month. But oh man, if you continue to
do the means, if you commit yourself to the means
that the Lord promises to bless preaching, singing, praying, all
the rest meaningful membership, we just trust that it will grow,
and it will grow even imperceptibly. So I would say

(10:33):
the story of the podcast sort of premised on that belief.
That is true. Now, thankfully we can take a wide
enough aperture, we can look at twenty five years of
history and actually chart some stuff, right, So I don't
want to communicate that the podcast is just me like
boringly charting nothing like no, over twenty five years, you

(10:55):
can chart genuine, real growth between from what the Lord
has done, you know, at these churches in the Middle East.
And that's what I tried. I tried to I tried
to capture a little slice of that growth. It's not,
you know, the numbers won't you know, blow your hair off,
But I think they're real, and I think it's it's
beautiful what the Lord has done.

Speaker 2 (11:17):
It really is. And there's a there's a quote in
the podcast that talks about that I'm paraphrasing, but it's
like the difference between growing lettuce and growing an oak tree.
You know what, We're dealing with acorns here, not salad.
And and it's the idea that you can go into
said church every day and not see really anything, but

(11:37):
if you go every five years, you're going to notice
significant things changing.

Speaker 3 (11:42):
Yeah, so well, and Granger, what's true too is like
it's easier to talk, it's easy to talk about as
if other people expect this, and like I'm somehow exempt
from this temptation. But what you know, what's true of
churches is true of Christians too. Right, we want to grow,
we want to grow overnight. We want we want to
fast spiritually, and so we you know, we get to

(12:03):
January first and we and we say, okay, I have
found the perfect spiritual disciplines map for twenty twenty five.
And it's this read the Old Testament, you know, like
whatever it is, right, pray this. You know, hard seventy five,
I'm gonna lift weights or what you know. I obviously
didn't participate in hard seventy five. Friends try to my

(12:23):
friends tried to participate in Mediocre twenty eight And I
even have that so so like, but you understand what
I mean, right, Like we we try to to grow
quickly spiritually, and I think it's the same principle holds. No,
the way to really grow actually is just to ordinarily

(12:45):
just do the things that the Lord promises to bring growth.
Go to church, read your bible, pray. I'm not again
not denying that there cannot be seasons of growth, of
fast growth. Certainly even suffering we think of that, you know,
that can bring quick growth always, but it can. So
I know, I just want to be careful that I'm
not kind of you know, criticizing people out there, and

(13:07):
while I can, I locate that temptation in my own
heart as well, and I want to be real about
that and kind of speak to my preach to myself
as it were.

Speaker 2 (13:15):
You're you're saying that because I immediately started this podcast
pitching holding you know, like I've had your hands tied
around your back, like this is the way it is.
God moves slowly, you know. So I I had an
idea of kind of and maybe I shouldn't, but I
know I know people that listen to this and and

(13:36):
it these things. Let me say it this way. Go
to this podcast storms in the Desert and go to
episode one and just put in some headphones and press play,
and it's it's really a beautiful production. There's music, there's
there's sound effects. You jump in and clarify something, which

(13:57):
is really helpful. Somebody says something and you jump in
and go, I think what he means by this is this?
And then you pop back out and let them continue.
It's so helpful, easy to listen to. All these things
are things I can't say on my Instagram story, but
they're things that I think. I think this philosophy is

(14:17):
just it's a beautiful thing that you've laid out. And
the conversion stories are really beautiful, the discipleship stories, the
teaching done from the pulpit, it's it's really laid out
in a way to understand. So that's my encouragement for
people listening right now. Just go to Storms and Desert,

(14:37):
press play on episode one.

Speaker 3 (14:39):
And maybe what I would want to say is like
I grew up in what I like to call megachurch land.
I don't know Greendear, Honestly, I don't really know your
story much about like the churches that you've gone in
and out of, But I grew up in megachurch Land,
and to be honest, I have a lot of affection
for the Lord saved me under ministry like that. And

(15:00):
I think I think I because of my upbringing in
in megachurch Land, which again I'm not using that as
derisive term. I mean, I'm just trying to describe what
it is. Uh. I think I have a pretty good,
like intuitive understanding of what kind of like your your
median rank and file Christian, uh, what they how they

(15:21):
how they think, what they believe because that was me
for so long and I'm not godly. This sounds embarrassing.
I'm not trying to say I've now like moved beyond that.
But what I mean to say is, I think most
Christians want a church that is kind of flashy and
and feels momentous and big, you know what I mean.
Like they want to be part of a movement. They
want to be a part of a church that is

(15:42):
accomplishing something for the Kingdom.

Speaker 2 (15:45):
I wanted to say, but you're saying it better how
I started this.

Speaker 3 (15:48):
And and I'm sympathetic for that, and and I appreciate
that because we all want we want the Lord to
do stuff. We want him to do things we trust
that he will. And and what I'm all, I'm simply
trying to do not all, but one of the things
I'm trying to do in this podcast is to say
I appreciate that impulse that can also be accomplished through

(16:10):
churches that if you it only showed up for a month,
wouldn't seem as obvious. Maybe it's not as flashy, maybe
it's not as big, but if you take the if
you take a wide enough perspective, even ordinary churches committed
to very ordinary things can have pretty amazing effect in
this world. We don't just have to wait, you know,

(16:32):
for glory for those to be shown. And so what
I'm doing a little bit is you know, Jonathan Lehman
once told me he's a friend of mine, my boss.
He said one time he kind of jokingly made fun
of me. He's like, I think your whole like public ministry,
is you kind of like psychoanalyzing the first twenty five
years of your life and just sort of like letting
the results, like giving the results to the world. And

(16:54):
I was like, you know, maybe that's true, but that's true.

Speaker 2 (16:57):
For a lot, that's true for a lot of us.
I think that a lot of us. I know Marshall's
story is a lot of times that it's reflecting on
what we've seen and learned. And but yeah, what you're
saying makes perfect sense. And so let's talk practical what
because yeah, what is an ordinary church that you're talking about?

(17:17):
Because there are differs.

Speaker 3 (17:19):
When I'm using that adjective ordinary, I'm sort of nodding
slightly at like the theological category ordinary means of grace.
But I don't only mean that, and and and even
when I'm talking about ordinary means of grace, maybe people
don't I I you know, some people intuitively understand what
that is. Basically, it means churches who don't really commit
themselves to anything new or any you know, their their

(17:42):
their mission statement is not anything new. They simply exist
to do a few things, which is to preach, you.

Speaker 2 (17:48):
Know, how to preach? How would you do that?

Speaker 3 (17:52):
Yeah, so that's a good question. I mean, I think
of of I think of passages and first thing of Timothy,
where Paul tells his protege Timothy to preach the word.
And so I think of examples in the Old Testament
where where the prophets it opened God's word and explained
it and applied it to God's people. And so what

(18:13):
I think should be the normal diet, the normal way
to approach preaching would be what, you know what, what fancy,
fancier people than me have called expositional preaching, you know, which,
which I think is as a maybe a slightly too
many syllable words, slightly too many syllables to simply say,
when you get up in front of people on Sunday mornings,

(18:34):
you should primarily be trying to explain and apply the
Bible to their lives. And I think the best way
to explain and apply the Bible to their to people's
lives is to consecutively walk through books of the Bible.
Because if you, if you, if you primarily preach topically,
which would be the other way to preach. I trust
that most people who preach topically, they're not up there

(18:54):
giving you know you Dave Ramsey principles or non biblical principles.
They're they're certainly meaning to give biblical principles. What does
the Bible say about generosity? What does it say about
conflict management? What does it say about marriage? That that's
that's wonderful. We need to know that stuff. But as
a Christian. I want. I need to know how to
read my Bible, like I need to know literally how

(19:16):
to read it. And I'm not necessarily going to learn
how to read my Bible if the only kind of
Bible Bible talking that I'm hearing is bouncing around, you know,
to to relevant places, but never sort of systematically putting
it together. Does that make sense?

Speaker 2 (19:31):
And so so how could we tell if I walk
into church? How could I tell if it's topical or expositional?

Speaker 3 (19:40):
Maybe you would need to show up two weeks in
a row.

Speaker 2 (19:42):
Okay, sure, okay, but I think.

Speaker 3 (19:45):
I mean, I think because because theoretically you could have
a topical message that's on one passage, but then the
next week, you know, it'll be a different topic and
a different passage, and and so you will you will
have learned some some particular principles sort of tethered to
those passages, but you will not have learned how to
put passages together or to read the Bible profitably on

(20:06):
your own. So, for example, at my church here in Louisville,
I was not here on Sunday morning, but we but
our pastor preached through Nehemiah chapters three and four, and
then next week, he's going to preach through Neemiah chapters
five through six. And you know it's funny here in
twenty twenty five sounds that sounds like as normal as

(20:27):
the sun as the sunset to me. But grangry, I
kid you not. When I was twenty years old or
nineteen years old, if you had described what I just
described as normal ministry, I would have looked at you
like you had one hundred heads. I would have didn't.
I simply did not know that there were churches out
there whose primary diet of public teaching was was was

(20:48):
opening the Bible and explaining it and applying it to
people's lives. And I'm saying both of those verbs. Intentionally
explaining and applying faithful preaching is not merely well, here's
what the here's what it means, here's what it means,
here's what it means, here's what it means, here's what
it means. Here's the background. Blah blah blah blah blah.
That sounds very dry and boring. It's explaining it and generally,

(21:11):
through the prism of Jesus, applying it to our lives. Right,
So what how does that passage get to Jesus, whether forward, backward, whatever,
and then how does it it's sort of application to
Jesus affect my life?

Speaker 2 (21:24):
So you're saying it's more than just a Bible study. Yeah,
because some people say, oh, yeah, we do that on
Sunday nights. We do what you're the line by line thing.
We do that on Sunday nights, Granger, That's what they say.

Speaker 3 (21:36):
Yeah, And I'd say, great, Praise God. I'm so glad
that you do. And I would, but I would say
you what we need as a congregation is to gather
under the Word of God together so that we can
help each other obey it and help each other apply
it to our lives. You know, I'm so glad Marshall's
saying so much in this podcast. Well, I was going
to ask I trustees amending this, But I mean, Marshal,

(21:58):
isn't that what you do as a preacher? Right?

Speaker 2 (22:00):
Let me before before he says that, when's the first
time you experienced this what he's talking about, this kind
of teaching?

Speaker 1 (22:07):
When I was.

Speaker 4 (22:10):
Probably around the same age twenty one, that was the
first time I stepped foot into a church that was
doing this. Outside of that growing up the church, I
grew up in. It was kind of whatever was laid
on the pastor's heart that week. Yeah, and sometimes he
wouldn't even finish it. On Sunday he said, I've been
going for an hour. We'll finish this next week. Let's pray.

Speaker 3 (22:29):
Oh wow, And so be honest.

Speaker 4 (22:32):
You've never done that, No, not yet.

Speaker 1 (22:38):
But going into it was actually going into a church plant.

Speaker 4 (22:43):
I mean they planted about a year before I got there,
so really really small church, but extremely faithful. And he
was just preaching through I don't remember what book it was,
but he was going through a book and it was
it was the first time that I felt like I
was actually understanding my Bible together. There were things in

(23:05):
the past where I thought I could tell you how
the Bible says something about that topic you just asked
me about. But if you had said, hey, kind of
what's Paul's argument in Galatians and how are you seeing that?

Speaker 1 (23:17):
I would have not been able to do that.

Speaker 2 (23:19):
So, you know, you guys want to know. My first
time to experience this on the right on FM radio
Alistair beg Truth for Life and I remember driving in
my truck and I had it on that station because
it was like a Christian music station, but for some

(23:41):
reason at this particular time, they would flip it to
Truth for Life. This is a message by Alistair Beg.
And Alistair comes on and he says, he's in his
Scottish accent, you know, he says, turn with me to
you know, this chapter, because you know, we left off
last week here and so now we're going to pick

(24:01):
up and continue the story. And I was like, yeah, oh,
is this a church service? This is cool. And then
he began to you know, for you know, forty minutes,
go through this new passage and then apply it. And
I was like, I wonder if he will do this,
if next week he'll do the next passage, you know,

(24:24):
because we kind of were left at a cliffhanger anyway.
And sure enough that the radio program and I remember
the radio program flipped and they brought the new the
next one in and it was the continuation of that,
and I started losing service in my truck with the
FM station. Then I pulled over on the side of
the road to get to keep this signal clear, and

(24:45):
I was I was just so interested that this was
a way that people did church.

Speaker 3 (24:51):
That was yeah, that was and I want to assume
the best about folks who do it differently. Right, It's
it's because so in other words, I don't want to
pit this kind of ministry and say, well, and if
you don't do this, you're not interested in teaching the
Bible to your people. No, no, no, no. I think
probably what's happening is that a lot many churches, and

(25:11):
I would even say this of the church that I
grew up in, for which I'm very thankful, is that
they have a totally different than than than at least
the three of us here. They have a different conception
of what the Sunday gathering is for and so so
so they would they would they would say, either explicitly
or implicitly that ultimately the Sunday gathering is for fill

(25:32):
in the blank, and it's often filled in the blank
with stuff like the unbeliever or someone seeking or or
or maybe it's not that it would be for you know,
someone who doesn't know that X about why, and so
they need to be instructed, you know, about why. And
and I think I think those those definitions might sound
like not that different, but it's actually a fundamentally different

(25:55):
understanding of what I understand to be what the point
of a Sunday morning service is, which which is which
is to primarily, not exclusively, but primarily build up the church.
And if we're trying to build up the church, by
which I mean a group of Christians who are committed
to one another, then what those people need is instruction
on on on not just like one topic, but on

(26:17):
like how to live this Christian life together through understanding
the word. Now, unbelievers should be addressed. They should be
I mean, First Corinthians eleven through fourteen makes it clear
the unbelievers should should should be able to walk through
a gathering and understand, be able to understand what's going on,
and to be able to even locate themselves as in
some degree outside of it, but still addressed and welcomed

(26:41):
in it, you know what I mean. There was a
notice that God is among is among you. Whether they
like that or not, you know, that's up between them
and the Lord. So I think I think what's happening
often is is church is just that different understands of
what the Sunday morning gathering is for. And so they're
gonna they're gonna frame and and and structure their gathering
so accordingly and I want to be sympathetic to those differences,

(27:02):
even if I think the scriptures would be more on
our side than on theirs, while respecting that there's differences
of opinion.

Speaker 2 (27:10):
And let me also say that this is this is
not your your special interpretation of what the scriptures are saying.
You're I also know that you're standing on the shoulders
of hundreds and hundreds of years Yeah, of other preachers. Yeah, yeah,
And it goes and it goes hundreds and hundreds of
years before even Spurgeon. Yeah, we can go all the

(27:32):
way back to Justin Martyr talking about that was that's
the first written document we have, and that was in
the second century, mid second century of how they did church.
And we know that there is a direct line to
the apostles themselves from this in the second century. If
you want to get a hold of me for any reason,

(27:54):
go to cameo dot com slash Granger Smith. It's a
great way to get someone a gift that you don't
know what to get. It's some video message from me. Basically,
you message me and say, hey, can you tell my
brother happy birthday, can you tell my wife happy inniversary?
Or can you give me a word of encouragement or
maybe even a prayer. Go to cameo dot com slash
granger Smith. Fill that out and it comes right to

(28:15):
my phone. I read what you want me to say.
I could add libit. I take my phone, put it
on selfie mode, shoot a quick video saying Hey, Bob,
Cindy wanted me to tell you a happy anniversary, and
you know, whatever you wantan to say, and then I'll
send you that video message and then you give it
to Cindy. It's a great little tool. I've been using

(28:35):
this for a long time. Cameo dot com slash granger Smith.
Have you heard about eye Fast yet? I need to
tell you. It's May ninth and tenth at the EEE Farm.
We're gonna have a truck show, We're gonna have a
mud bog, lots of good food, lots of people from
ye Nation will be there, and I'm even gonna do
some kind of live podcast. Don't know how that's gonna

(28:58):
look yet, but we're gonna do a live audience podcast,
answer questions. Gonna have Amber there, most of my team
and my brothers will all be there. And you know,
we'll be at the EEE Farm so you get to come.
It's open to the public completely and you get to
come and hang out with us at the EEE Farm.
I think it's gonna be so much fun. And here's
the surprise. Saturday night, May the tenth, I'm actually playing

(29:19):
a concert, my full band, all the crews. It will
be the only concert we do the entire year. So
you don't want to miss this. I mean, this is
gonna be If you're part of EU Nation or you
want to be part of EU Nation, you got to
check this out. You go to ee efest dot com
for all your info. I'm looking at it right now.
If you're wondering the price for the full weekend, it's

(29:41):
seventy nine bucks for a ticket. If you just want
to go to one day, like a single pass on
Friday is thirty nine bucks, and a single pass on
Saturday is only fifty nine bucks. So if you want
to go to this concert, fifty nine bucks, kids are
cheaper than that. And then there's all kind of like
vip packages ways to get your truck in there. We

(30:02):
could sit on your tailgate of your own truck. It's
going to be a really, really good time. I'm so
excited about this once again, ye Fest coming May ninth
and tenth. Go to ee dot com or ee fest
dot com for more details.

Speaker 3 (30:16):
Well, and even the even though you can, you know,
you don't want to make too much hay out of this, probably,
but the recipients of the New Testament letters are churches,
and there's a there's a clear distinction between, you know,
like here's what Christians think, here's what you know, non
beliefers think.

Speaker 2 (30:31):
So yeah, yeah, man, it's it's fascinating stuff. So you
you said preaching, I think we got we got that. Okay,
what else were you going to say?

Speaker 3 (30:40):
Marsha, there it's been it's been so long. You're asking
me what what makes an ordinary?

Speaker 2 (30:46):
So yeah, we we The question was if I walk
into a church, yeah, what makes it healthy? What makes it?

Speaker 1 (30:54):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (30:54):
You say ordinary, which is you you defined what you
mean by that. What we mean to say is faithful
in ordinary ministry. But go ahead, what's next?

Speaker 3 (31:06):
Yeah? So I think I mean again, trying to tie
it in some respect to the podcast a little bit,
which is that you know, basically it tells a story
of how a man came to this church in Dubai,
and this church in Dubai. I don't know how familiar
some of you are with Dubai. But Dubai is a
very wealthy nation that's full of all sorts of different nationalities.

(31:29):
In fact, only ten percent of the population is native
to the UA. Only ten percent of the population is
what they call Amoradi. And so there was However, these people,
the rulers of this nation want Westerners and other nations
to come, and so they give them land to plant
to have a church, even though it is a Muslim nation.
And so the church that existed in Dubai in the

(31:51):
early two thousands was very diverse, several hundred people, five
or six hundred people, about less than one hundred but
to one hundred nations represented, and and the church was
really really proud of its diversity. Uh. And it was
also very very sort of anemic spiritually, that is, it

(32:12):
wasn't prioritizing the things we've been talking about. It wasn't
prioritizing biblical teaching.

Speaker 1 (32:16):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (32:16):
And so the podcast as a story of when they
basically hired a man named John to come in and
to be their new pastor and who began to teach
the Bible. And after teaching the Bible, the second main
change that he made, which which would be to instill
what I often refer to and probably what these guys
referred to as meaningful membership. In other words, that that

(32:38):
what should, what should constitute our relationship to this church
is not merely like oh, like we're all you know,
look how look how it is, how crazy it is
that we're Westerners in Dubai. But what characterizes the relationship
between us is that we're all Christians and that we're
helping each other follow Jesus, and that the church is
going to be a gathering of Christians. And so I think,

(32:59):
I think, think what you know. One thing the scriptures
call churches too, is to to make that line between
inside the church that is a committed Christian, committed member,
and outside the church that is someone who's not following
Jesus or at the very least maybe non member of
that church. To make that line some somewhat clear, uh,

(33:20):
and to make it meaningful. So I'm not saying that
everyone who's not a member of your church is not
a Christian. I'm just saying that that the normal relationship
to a church is one of membership, which which involves
both responsibility and accountability.

Speaker 2 (33:34):
People are commenting right now. They're literally typing right now
as we speak that membership is not live. No, no, no,
it's not. Oh my gosh, you know we do that.
We do that at Amaze. I'm kidding, No, don't. People.
People are typing right now that membership is not in

(33:54):
the Bible. Marshall. Okay, well let's go to Marshall and
then I'll kick it back to you.

Speaker 1 (34:01):
You're good.

Speaker 4 (34:01):
I was just gonna say, I was just gonna say
that's encouraging, because I think a lot of people will
will say membership the way you guys talk about it,
that's like an American thing. That's that's not that's something
we do here. But to hear that it's happening in
places like Dubai and then Alex, you and I know
many other places across the world that have churches that

(34:23):
are doing it. Maybe the process looks a little different,
but the idea of it's the same. And so it's
just an encouragement to see, now, these are just brothers
faithfully trying to do what Scripture calls us to do
and holding each other accountable. And that's not a Westerner thing,
that's not an American thing. That's not something that we
developed over the last fifty years that we thought this

(34:43):
would just be helpful. It's something that we're trying to
get back to doing what Scripture calls us to do
as a church.

Speaker 2 (34:49):
Yeah, where would you go when someone says membership is
not in the Bible?

Speaker 3 (34:55):
Okay? If I only like.

Speaker 2 (34:57):
Marshall, Okay, I want, I want to hear out.

Speaker 3 (35:01):
I'm sorry you cut out. You cut out Marshall's answer. No, gosh,
I'm so rude. I got all these I got all
these dead people looking down on me behind me, and
these old pictures.

Speaker 4 (35:17):
Alex, you go, you go, and I'll play off you
you go, all right?

Speaker 3 (35:21):
Forgive me. So I appreciate the question. I'm happy to
answer it. If I had only sixty seconds and someone
said to me, man, my membership is just the way
you guys are talking about it is not in the Bible,
I would say, okay, open your Bible with me to
First Corinthians chapter five, and I'm only going to point
to one verse. I'm not even going to give you

(35:43):
any context other than to simply say he's he's writing
to a church about what they should do about someone
in their gathering. And Paul writes to them First Corinthians five,
verse twelve, speaking to them, for what have I to
do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the
church whom you are to judge? That one verse. There's

(36:04):
more we could say about it, but that one verse
gives us two incredibly important principles that helps us to
establish that meaningful membership is biblical. Which is which is
simply this number one. There is such a thing as
an inside and outside of the church. Now, I think
I think we already need to tweak our intuitions about

(36:24):
what that word church means. Church does not mean, though
we use it colloquially all the time to refer to
it as as the building. It does not mean the
leadership structure. It does not mean the various ministries. Church
biblically is a is a gathering of Christians, so it
should have flesh and bones on it. That word, so
it establishes the first principle that there's such a thing

(36:44):
as the inside of that thing and the outside of
that thing. And then secondly it establishes that our relationship
to the people on various sides of that line is
fundamentally different. In other words, we're supposed to judge the
people on one side of the line and the people
on the other side of the line. So is what
is meaningful membership. It's basically acknowledging those two principles. It's

(37:08):
having a rational, coherent way to have the line in
the first place, and it's saying, once you, once you're
on the side of that line, my relationship with you
is going to change now, not in like a freaky
weird way. It's going to change in that like we
will have formal responsibility and authority over one another because
we've consented and agreed to it together. You know, there's
other theological arguments that you could make about about membership,

(37:30):
but I just simply don't understand how First Corinthians five,
verse twelve makes any sense in a context where there
is not something as as membership, regardless of the formal
requirements or the congregational idiosyncrasies that a church will have
sort of for the process the category. The principle I
think is as clear as day.

Speaker 2 (37:47):
Marshall, what do you say about And I agree, Alex,
what do you say? What's another another piece of the
Bible you could go to?

Speaker 4 (37:54):
Yeah, I mean, well, if you want to stay with
Paul's Letters to the Corinthians Second Corinthian, Chapter two, he's
talking about another judgment case, maybe even the same one
talks about the punishment by the majority is enough. Who's
counted as the majority. There's an idea of who's recognized
in that. The one I always go to is Hebrews thirteen.
Just as a pastor, thirteen seventeen obey your leaders, so

(38:15):
there's a recognition that you've made them your leaders, your elders,
your pastors.

Speaker 1 (38:20):
And then it says that they have to give an
account for your soul.

Speaker 4 (38:22):
So as a pastor, I want to know who I
have to stand before God one day and he's going
to say, I put them under your care.

Speaker 1 (38:29):
You're held responsible for them. So there's those.

Speaker 4 (38:32):
And then one that I didn't realize until I started
preaching through the book was in Paul's letter to Philemen.
It's a very personal letter to Philemen about another brother
in Christ, Onisimus, and their reconciling relationship. But he addresses
the letter even though it's very personal, he addresses the
letter to the church. And I think that's in part

(38:54):
because they're supposed to hold these two guys accountable to
what Paul's encouraging them to. I'd never noticed that Paul
writes to the church in that letter, but I think
he does it with the purpose because everything he says
in the letter is directed specifically to those two guys.

Speaker 3 (39:09):
So are you going to start see seeing uh your church,
Georgetown Baptist Church. To all of your correspondence about people
getting along.

Speaker 1 (39:16):
We already do, we already do No, we do not
do that. Just for clarity, we do not do that.
But I think those would be some of them.

Speaker 3 (39:27):
Yeah, there's even the metaphor, even the metaphors or scripture
don't make a ton of sense. I mean, a body
is a it's a it's a it's it's He's using
metaphors that sort of highlight the kind of interconnected intimacy
of the various parts. Uh, he's he's he's using, you know,
the metaphor of family. He's using the metaphor of building,

(39:49):
which has this interconnected intimacy. One part can't have one
part without the other. Those don't make it. It doesn't
make a ton of sense. If if there's not a
definable I know where my body stop stops and another
person's body is I know where that building like, they're
just concrete images that don't make sense without some kind
of structure to support them.

Speaker 2 (40:11):
Would you see in the Bible? Would you think that
I could on my own, outside of any church, Yeah,
plant my own church. Would that be biblical? Oh? Would
that be?

Speaker 3 (40:23):
That's a good question. I think I would say you
can do it. It's probably not wise to do it
that way, uh, in part because of you know, I'm
thinking of Acts thirteen and fourteen, where you know, a
church is gathering to send out Paul and barnabas Uh
to do the work, which means that the church is
recognize those two men as equipped to do that work. So,

(40:48):
you know, I think if you're planning to do what
greater you just described.

Speaker 2 (40:53):
I'm not planning to do.

Speaker 3 (40:55):
I know, but it's possible you would end up in
a church. More likely you would end up in a cult,
just just the way that goes. Frankly, so many have
tried to do what you're pointing, and that's why we
have all sorts of cults in the world.

Speaker 2 (41:09):
That's another podcast for another time, and a fascinating thought.
Acts six as another time that the first deacons, as
we think that they come through the church, through the
decision of the church. If it wasn't defined who the
church was, how in the world would you appoint deacons?

(41:31):
Why would you want why would you risk having an outsider?
Perhaps that just happens to be attending the gathering the
last few times you've gathered, and now they're the ones
also in on this decision to appoint deacons, even worse elders.
That is a that is a scary thought. Okay, so
you walk into church. The pastor is now preaching, and

(41:54):
we have an idea of what it would look like
to be preaching that making the point of the sermon,
the point of the text. Yeah, and then we also
see that there is a difference between us as the newcomer.
This is not in a bad way, but as a newcomer.
There we're looking into a family. We're outside the family,

(42:15):
and we look into the family and we see that
they they operate as a unit. They love each other,
they're encouraging one and another, they're holding each other accountable.
And so now we're we're where where do we go now?
In in our outside view of this church?

Speaker 3 (42:33):
Oh man, I love the extended metaphor that you're asking
us to do with this. Uh, it's it's it's stretching
my brain. I think you would just you would probably
try to listen to like, okay, like the music. Are
they are they basically just doing are they? I mean again,

(42:53):
here we are. I'm gonna use a fancy phrase. It's
it's it's what sometimes Christians have called regulative principle. In
other words, are they are they doing the things in
the gathering that the that the Bible uh prescribes? Or
are they doing the things in the Bible that the
Bible prescribes and other stuff that they also want to do?
So for example, I one time went to a church

(43:14):
in Manhattan, Uh, I will I will keep the guilty
anonymous that had a comedy set in the middle of
the gathering right before the sermon because one of the
members is I guess a working comedian and wanted to
bless the church. You know, So I would say, you know,

(43:35):
well intended, but maybe ill advised. Uh. In other words,
I want, I want to worship the Lord. You know,
if we're if we're gonna, if we're gonna constrain the
consciences of Christians to come to church, which we should.
Christians should come to church generally speaking, so we when
they get there, we should only ask of them to
do what the Bible asks of them to do, which

(43:56):
is to hear the word, sing to one another, right
to one another, give attention to the public reading of scripture,
and to take the supper and do baptism, uh when
it's appropriate. So I think, I think if a church
is really excited about those things, you're on pretty you're
on pretty level footing, pretty steady footing. Uh. If the

(44:18):
church is really excited about what makes them unique relative
to two thousand years of church history, I might get
a little nervous because what this is not me, but
it's it's you know, a guy we all respect. Mark
has said before, what what's most important about a church
is actually what it shares in common with every true
church that's come before it.

Speaker 2 (44:37):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (44:38):
And so so if if if this church is constantly
talking about what makes it it, or its mission or
it's accomplishing of a certain mission unique, I'm just gonna
get a little nervous because because that man, that stuff
just burns out, It just burns out. I want, I
want ordinary, steady ministry that's just going to try to

(44:58):
pour in the concrete we after week Sunday after Sunday.

Speaker 2 (45:01):
Uh, there's your definition that now you've now you've given
us a definition ordinary it is.

Speaker 3 (45:08):
That's hard to suss out. It is. It's it's hard
to suss out.

Speaker 2 (45:12):
And we have to have to say this all the time.
We're not talking about small is better. We're not talking
we're not talking about big as bad.

Speaker 3 (45:20):
I mean, the church in dubaias six hundred people. It's
not small, it's but it's it's very big by the
standard size of churches. You know. I think the problem
is when you as the church gets bigger, if it's
not committed to the principles we've described, it's almost impossible
to it's it's impossible to get that like you know,
that thing back in the bottle. It's really really hard.

Speaker 2 (45:42):
Is there anything we're missing walking to a church? If
you if you could sign up, if there's a sign
up list for baptism that day, it's probably probably.

Speaker 3 (45:50):
Are you really going to ask me to speak on this?

Speaker 2 (45:52):
Probably probably to me when you know I'm not gonna
I'm not going to put your feet at the fire
on that. But but I would say that's kind of
a that's kind of practical, Like, that's just we could
kind of think that with what we've established so far
in this podcast.

Speaker 3 (46:11):
I mean, if you a Baptis, yeah, you could do
it as long as you brought them into membership and
we're willing to keep those people, uh, you know, to
forge for another words, for that moment to be forging
a meaningful relationship with that person and not a meaningful
moment with that person. Uh, that's great, that's what.

Speaker 2 (46:32):
That's great. What would take that right there and put
it onto my Instagram? That's good? What do we, Marshall
and I have done?

Speaker 3 (46:42):
Me fruch of the spirit, truch of the spirit, godliness, kindness.
I think I think sometimes we can get really excited
when I first became, you know, persuaded by some of
these things, like like I began, you can almost think
like the point of of of the Christian life is
to grow in theological knowledge. And I think I think

(47:03):
it's it's the Pharisees who would say that who was
who was who was most interested in accruing biblical in
their minds scriptural data sounds like a pharisee a Christian
is most is most interested in growing in the fruits
of the spirit. Now, I believe that we grow in
the fruits of the spirit by it through our attention
to God's word, so that, in other words, the relationship

(47:24):
is inter it's it's interconnected. As we learn more of
the God's Word with the appropriate you know, posture, we
grow in the fruits of the spirit. And so I think,
I think, I really really don't want a church that's
constantly trying to differentiate itself, like in like proud ways
from other churches, you know, like where you got these

(47:44):
people doing that, these people that well we're doing this
like that. That strikes me a pride. I don't I
really want to do that. I'm just rambling, I think.

Speaker 2 (47:55):
So my my hope is that I don't have to
answer the direct question, Hey, Granger, can you help me
find a good church in my area. I'm happy to
do that. Marshall is happy to do that. But what
I would rather do is have the listener develop an
idea so that they could look for themselves, and they

(48:19):
could go around town and they could pop in a
church and they could go, Okay, what are what are
some practical fundamental biblical principles I should be looking for
in this church, and they could see something, and they
could they could be encouraged by something that would make
our job a lot easier instead of going to you know,
looking at their town and looking at Des Moines, Iowa

(48:40):
and doing a church search in the in the radius.

Speaker 3 (48:44):
Yeah. So I wrote a little church questions book that
I was looking for a copy of but I can't
find it, called What Should I Look for in a Church?

Speaker 2 (48:50):
I've given that out a bunch. It's a great little thing.
You can get that on Amazon, by the way.

Speaker 3 (48:55):
Yeah, I think I had three answers to it. I
can only remember too, but I'll summarize them here. It's
number one, look for a church that knows you're gonna die.
In other words, look for a church who understands that
the most important fact about you is that you're a
human being created in the image of God and whose
sin has broken that relationship with that God. And as

(49:15):
a result of that broken relationship, you were going to die.
And you need to do something about that before you die,
which is to put your faith and trust in the
risen Lord Jesus. Now, I'm not saying you should look
for a church that only cares about that stuff, but
they should care about that most of all. And you
will be able to tell that from the way they preach,
from the mission, from what they give their money to,
from the things they celebrate from the stage. That is

(49:38):
how like that is the most fundamental thing. The second
thing I remember, I think there were three, I remember
two is that look for a church that where the
Bible is not only for super serious super Christians. So
what I've noticed, s Granger, over time is I have
lots of friends who still attend the megachurch that I've
grown up in, and it has I think it has

(49:59):
departed more more over the years for making the Bible
the center of their gathering. But what I've noticed in
these situations, especially among my friends there, who are who
are themselves very mature, they're godly, they're mature, they're wise,
is that they have found ancillary or extra ministries in
that church where they get their Bible intake. So it's

(50:20):
it could be like you said, a Sunday morning Bible
Study or Sunday afternoon Bible Study or whatever, a small group.
It could be a Bible study, fellowship class, it could
be a Tuesday night men's group. And what happens is
that the sometimes not all the time, because God is merciful,
But what happens often in situations like that is that
when the Bible sort of loses its pride of place
in a main gathering, the serious Christians aren't going to

(50:43):
leave often, but they'll just find their biblical edification in
other places. And it kind of implicitly silently communicates well,
biblical like, really being serious about the Bible is kind
of just for people who want that added on to
the experience. We're giving them on Sunday more warning. And man,
that sets a church out for some really dangerous situations.

(51:05):
And you know, if we're going to pull back the
camera for thirty forty fifty years, it's just really really
not a healthy place to be.

Speaker 2 (51:11):
Well, that's that must just be a Louisville thing, because
we don't have that problem in Texas.

Speaker 3 (51:17):
Brother, Brother, I got two interns from Texas and I'm
exercising texts and ghosts from them all the time. It
is universal, not every church, not every church over you know,
a thousand people is you know, is is really bad?
You should probably be careful about saying that.

Speaker 2 (51:31):
So no, it's it's universal. There you know a man,
the producer, he has plenty of stories sitting here, Marshall
has plenty of stories, and all of us have friends
in these situations. And and people listening, I would say
the high percentage of people that are that gather with
a local church. I think say, our small group is

(51:53):
where we get our Bible, our small group is where
we learn. A small group is where we disciple. And
I just want to Yeah, there's an interesting people. No,
there's an interesting interesting thing you said in the podcast,
or that the in the story of the guy who's
nobody from his small group showed up to his funeral.
You remember that, Yeah, a little tea. Yeah, there's an
intimacy that's actually lost in the small group that you

(52:16):
get from the gathering. I hadn't really even thought that
there would be less intimacy until I heard it in
your podcast.

Speaker 3 (52:23):
Yeah. Well, and I just want to say to the listeners,
who cares what Alex says? I mean, who cares what
Granger says?

Speaker 2 (52:29):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (52:29):
That's true, definitely, who cares what Marshall says? Uh? And
And I'm like test the scriptures, brothers and sisters, ye, like, like,
see what the scriptures say? Are we are we fairly
representing them? Or are we not? Like that's the most
important thing. And and I think we we can stand
on scripture, and perhaps you can too, But the conversation

(52:51):
should not be about feelings or vibes or opinions per se.
But what what do the what do the scriptures say?
What does the Lord himself hold out as normal for
the Christian life?

Speaker 2 (53:03):
That's so good, man, I think that's I think that's
a pretty good picture. And I appreciate your time to
be on here. I know you're you're a busy guy
on YouTube, Marshall, but I think that's a pretty good
picture that we could probably actually even continue another time,
if you'd be willing to build especially, we could we
could take this look at some of the comments on
it and see if we if we had any blind
spots so that someone could literally go to their local

(53:28):
church down the road on this coming Sunday and walk
in there with with a few things in their mind
to be thinking through. And it's certainly not what feels
good and what sounds good and what you know, what
makes what? What uplifts me in a in a in
a kind of a central type way. But I think
this has given some tools and I then I want

(53:50):
to say one more thing. Yeah, this book here, this
is a pretty awesome book called From Eden to Egypt.
I have a copy. I'm one of the first problems.
Hopefully I'm one of the first. But this man, can
you tell me when this podcast will release? Do you know?
Off the top of your head? So I think we're

(54:13):
pretty close to April fifteenth. This book is out. If
it's before April fifteenth, I just checked and I just
pre ordered it. You can get it on Amazon. But
this is a guided tour of Genesis. Yeah, and you
this is.

Speaker 3 (54:28):
Fuzy, something completely different.

Speaker 2 (54:30):
Let's go the everyday Christian, right, this is kind of
this is what you're looking for. Yeah. Have you ever
picked up a book that's supposed to help you understand
the Bible but actually left you confused and even a
little bit bored. It's okay, you could be honest, he says,
if so, From Eden to Egypt is here to help.
Genesis is a weird and beautiful masterpiece that raises all

(54:53):
sorts of questions. Why are there so many genealogies? Why
do heroes act like villains? Why do people keep sleeping
with their relatives? Who are the Nephelim? And why do
Abraham and random guy haggle about a price of a
RinkyDink cave for a whole chapter? This is This is
a beautiful book. And I got this from Marshall. Marshall

(55:17):
sent this to me from you and I was able
to take a look at it in the PDF form
before it was even a book. And man, what a
cool thing for a Christian listening. Not not We're not
talking about pastors or Bible teachers. We're just talking about
a guy or a girl that's interested in reading their
Bible and they're reading through Genesis and they kind of

(55:40):
use this and and read along with it, and it's
spoken with everyday language. In fact, in chapter one, the
quote the quote on chapter one says you complete being
Jerry McGuire, Yeah, actually says Jerry comment Jerry McGuire, Yeah.

Speaker 3 (56:00):
Thought I thought the editors were gonna you know, part
of me. I had like that. The other night. I
couldn't sleep and I was thinking to myself, did I
quote too many movies that are going to like cause
people to stumble?

Speaker 2 (56:12):
Chapter two, Snakes? Why does it have to be snakes?
Indiana Jones Raiders are all start. I think it's awesome. Man,
it's it's uh, it's it's it's helpful, and there's I mean,
the movie quotes are to supplement, not to not to
make you stumble by any by any means. But I was,
I was helped by this, and I probably shouldn't say

(56:36):
what I'm about to say, but I'm about to say it.
Now you're working on Exodus. Oh bro, never mind, I
mean I was just saying.

Speaker 3 (56:44):
I didn't say that I'm supposed to be. If you're
listening to this Zondervan, I'm sorry.

Speaker 2 (56:51):
Yeah. Really cool. So Alex Duke from Eating to Egypt
and then Storms in the Desert podcast. These are shorter
episodes codes twenty to thirty five minutes each. There's five
of them, and they're actually really entertaining. So if you're
on a road trip with your family or maybe commuting
to work. Everyone has some kind of commute to work.

(57:12):
Pop this in. Don't listen to it on one point
seventy five. Ant Man makes fun of me for doing that.
Listen to it in one speed that would be much better.
But listen to Storms in the Desert and then if
that raises up questions, great, I think that that would
be amazing if it if it brought out some questions,
and then I guess you could go to Bible Talk,
your other podcast. You can go to Bible Talk and

(57:33):
fill in some of the blanks, right, you could.

Speaker 1 (57:39):
Do all that.

Speaker 3 (57:40):
Most importantly, I'd love for you to do all that.
But you know, the Lord is so kind to me.
I would love for most of the people to listen
to this, find a church that loves you, who's gonna
lock arms with you until you get to glory, because
that's what we all need. I mean, if my book
is helpful, praise God. If Storm in the Desert is encouraging,

(58:00):
praise God, get to work. If Bible Talk a podcast
I do, is helpful, praise the Lord I am. I
am blessed beyond you know, beyond belief. To get to
do these things is you know, part of my life,
the way I provide for my family. Uh So, I
would be so honored if anybody, even one person picked
it up, it be it'd be you know, it would

(58:21):
make me thankful. But man, the main stuff we've been
talking about so much more important than than little little
additions I've made.

Speaker 2 (58:27):
The additions you've made I'll back you up for a second.
The additions you've made all point towards getting people into
that local church so that they can grow in their
knowledge of the Lord together. And I hope so if
it's very clear that these aren't like side projects that
don't intersect or don't run parallel. They all of these
things revolve around this, this same idea. And so yes,

(58:52):
if anyone gets anything away from this podcast, we want
them to be in a church that that they can
gather with and that loves them and they grow together
in the Lord. But what we've talking about for the
last hour is how to identify what church does that?

Speaker 3 (59:04):
Right?

Speaker 2 (59:05):
That's the deal. You're right, bro, Thank you, man, I
appreciate it.

Speaker 3 (59:10):
Thank you for the thank you for the invitation. It's
it's truly an honor to get to to spend time
with you. I'd be happy to do it any other time.
It's good Marshall. I can't really see you, but you're
just a floating head over there. You look you look lovely.
Thanks and thanks for thanks for thanks for participating. And man,
I don't even see you at all.

Speaker 2 (59:29):
He's working hard back here.

Speaker 3 (59:31):
With a name like that, you gotta be you got
to be, you know, maybe a small guy who packs
a big punch.

Speaker 2 (59:36):
So a man, and man does not go to our
church in Mayis, but he is a He is a
member of a like minded church on the other side
of town about forty five minutes from us.

Speaker 1 (59:45):
You know.

Speaker 3 (59:46):
Wonderful. Yeah, well that's so good, guys. Keep up the
good work. Granger You're a blessing man. Man.

Speaker 2 (59:51):
That's how I feel about you.

Speaker 1 (59:52):
Bro.

Speaker 2 (59:53):
Thank you. Thanks for joining me on the Grangersmith podcast.
I appreciate all of you guys. You could help me
out by rating this podcast on iTunes. If you're on YouTube,
subscribe to this channel, hit that little like button and
notification spell so that you never miss anytime I upload
a video.

Speaker 3 (01:00:11):
Yigi