March 17, 2025 • 48 mins
This week we have Allie Beth Stucky who discusses her busy schedule and how she balances her professional and personal life. She shares that working with her husband, who serves as her business manager, has been a game-changer, allowing them to travel together as a family while managing their responsibilities. Ali explains that she records multiple podcast episodes per week and relies on a large team to handle behind-the-scenes tasks.
She also reflects on how her career has shifted over time, particularly after having children, leading her to make adjustments in speaking engagements and interviews. Additionally, she discusses her faith journey, how she and her husband chose a church based on strong biblical teaching and community involvement, and the importance of being actively engaged in their local church. Ali highlights her upbringing in a Christian household, the influence of her mother and grandmother, and her deep interest in theology and apologetics, which shaped her beliefs.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
How did you learn what a healthy church is? Tell
me walk me through that.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Yes, well, I was raised Christian, and I'm very grateful
for that. I was raised also going to a Christian school.
And I credit first of all my parents for just
how they discipled me, and yes my mom and my dad,
but primarily my mom. And I think a lot of
people would say that just because you spend the most
time with your mom growing up and seeing her example
(00:30):
of every single morning having her journal and her coffee
and her Bible out, how she diligently prayed with me,
how she how she's sang hymns with me every night,
and we were just very close and had that connection.
And I just followed her example in loving scripture and
loving worship more than the Christian school kindergarten through twelfth grade,
(00:52):
more than the Ijuanas, more than the Southern Baptist tradition
of going to church on Wednesdays and Sunday mornings and
Sunday nights, which were all beautiful and all blessings. Like
I credit just the example in the diligence of my
parents in discipleship. And also my grandmother lived with me
until I was thirteen. We were very close and also
her example. Both of my grandmother and my mom were
(01:15):
both teachers by trade for a while before I was born,
and they used that gift that God gave them to
really disciple my brothers and me, but a lot of
me because my brothers are a lot older than me.
So anyway, I was just the beneficiary of a lot
of good teaching. But it wasn't really until high school
that I started taking my faith seriously and personally digging
(01:38):
into apologetics and theology. That's when I started considering if
I was what is typically referred to as reformed, although
I wouldn't have necessarily called myself that reading C. S.
Lewis and Tim Keller and John Piper, Matt Chandler at
the time. This was all probably junior in high school,
and I actually started going to another church independent of
(02:02):
my parents that was maybe a little bit more in
that direction. My friend gifted me with an ESV Study
Bible when I was a freshman in college, which totally
shaped my theology and still does to this day. And
I would say I kind of marched steadily towards that
like reformed camp, and that really shaped my theology. And
so that means a lot of exa Jesus, a lot
(02:24):
of theology, a lot of Bible, and I had been
somewhat raised with a little bit of a prosperity tinge,
I would say, to some of my theology, or at
least there was an acceptance of the Jolo Stein theology
a bit. And so when I dug into biblical theology
(02:44):
and expository preaching, it was like a whole new intellectual
world for me. And so when my husband and I
got married, because shared that love, shared that passion, and
we knew that we wanted expository preaching when we selected
a church. Now, we're Baptists, and we're both Southern Baptists,
(03:05):
and so that's not typically like in the Reformed camp.
That's typically Presbyterian, and we don't have to get into
the nitty gritty of everything that means. But that's primarily
what we were looking for. We were looking for a church
that teaches exogetically and that sticks to the word, and
(03:26):
that isn't going to compromise when everyone else is compromising.
Twenty twenty was a big test for everyone, and I
was very thankful that my church stayed open, that my
church stood firm, that my church has been clear. And
also another thing for us is that it would be
easy to get involved. There are solid churches, big churches
(03:48):
that are great, but they're hard to get involved in. Like,
we went to a church when we were just married
that we tried to join a small group. You couldn't
even join a small group anytime you wanted. It was
every six months and only if there was an opening,
and so like, what were you supposed to do? Just
wait in the pews until someone maybe came up to
you and I don't know, welcomed you in, but if not,
(04:11):
you're just kind of going to be stranded. The church
that we're in now, it was so easy to get
plugged in, to go to a Sunday school class and
to find you know, those people and those opportunities to serve.
And so those are the two of the things that
we were looking for.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
Yeah, that's fantastic. We're on the exact same page with that.
And I am not against big churches. I feel like
I need to say that often because because it starts
to sound like I'm pro small church and that's the
only way to do it. There are plenty unhealthy small churches,
but you need to have enough shepherds for the amount
(04:50):
of sheep you have. And yeah, that's that's usually what's lost.
So if you have a big ranch, you would want
you have a lot of cattle. You want a lot
of ranch hands for the amount of cattle. And usually
we don't see churches that way. You you have a
megachurch and just not enough leadership. That's why people get lost.
That's why people aren't responding. You can't get into a
(05:10):
small group or whatever. So in that aspect, it's wiser
to be in a church that's that's the right size
proportionally to its eldership. I don't I honestly, sitting here
right now, I don't know the church that you go to,
but I probably know them if we talked offline, I'm
(05:30):
sure I know them. Because it's, uh, that's exactly what
I would want my family to experience in church, and
that's what I want any of my listeners to know
about church, because I have so many people I'm sure
you too, so many people go. You know what, I
don't need church. I find God in the woods. I
love hunting, and that's where I really experience God. And
(05:51):
the idea of being involved in a local body serving
a local body, being served by a local body is rare.
And then to see you on your platform be involved
and be in the nursery is It's incredible. It's an
incredible blessing.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Well, we see a lot of people and this is
not to say you know, I'm it's what I do
is like very small potatoes compared to those who are
you know, like who have huge, mega platforms and get
super famous in all of that. But any form of
platform or any form of influence that anyone has, there's
always going to be an opportunity to get sucked into
(06:35):
the rat race and get sucked into the opportunism and
the ambition that exists there. And I think like the
cheat code outside of just the grace of God and
the protection of God that has nothing to do with
my own efforts. But in addition to that, like the
cheat code to avoiding that craziness, the gossip, the backstabbing,
(06:55):
the betrayal that even exists in like smaller conservative media,
because all that exists, the corruption, the I mean, there's
just craziness that goes on behind the scenes. There is
living a normal life and having a normal family, not
only having like a normal loving marriage, where you spend
a ton of time together. You travel together. You're not
(07:17):
like traveling off by yourself all the time, but you're
together with your family. The closer you can be to
real everyday people who know you, who know your life,
who can speak into your life, who can say you're
off on that you're going too far in that direction.
You need to say no to that that's not good
(07:37):
to you, or that's not good for you, or whatever
it is, or encourage you like on the other end,
like yes, you are doing great at whatever it is.
The more that you can be plugged into your church,
the more that you can try as much as you
can to just maintain normal friendships people who don't have
any kind of platform like that is the cheat code.
(07:57):
That is how you stay honest and normal and saying.
People ask me all the time, how do you talk
about like the news and all of this sad stuff
without getting just sad and stressed and spit And it's
because I have. It's because of my life, it's because
of my family, it's because of my marriage. In addition,
of course, to the grace of God, it's because of
(08:18):
all of the normalcy and stability that I have that
I think is what charges me and gives me the
ability to talk about the chaos that's going on in
the world because I have a respite in my everyday life.
So that's advice that I would give to anyone.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
Yeah, that's good.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
Can you think of a time when someone in your
family said, Ali, you're off, You're off on this.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
Oh, my dad calls me all the time, and it's like,
I mean, not a big deal. I mean he is like,
besides my husband, like my biggest cheerleader ever, and so
I never doubt that. I mean, he's on the show
all the time. If my husband for some reason can't
travel with me, my dad travels with me all the time.
And yeah, so he's great and I always trust to
and I always will hear him out, but he will
(09:03):
definitely be like, you know, I think that you should
have talked to that person privately before you brought that
up on the show. And I'm like, uh, I think
that you're right. I shouldn't have because or you know,
I think that you made around call about that or
here's what you're not seeing about that. And so my
dad does that. My mom has at times, and I
try to be really careful and really discerning with everything
(09:25):
I say. But my mom has at times been like,
you know what, I don't think that this was the
most the best thing that you could have said on
social media today about that my brother a few years ago. Okay,
So I don't cuss at all, I especially like not publicly.
But I think I said something one time, like I
don't know, maybe seven years ago. I think I said
(09:47):
like bad a or something on Twitter. Uh, now I'm
talking about publicly here, okay, And so, and my brother
texted me and was like, you don't need to say
something like that, like it just doesn't add anything to
your argument. And I was like, you're totally right. There's
no reason for me to say something like that. It
(10:07):
doesn't make me sound smarter and if anything, it could
cost someone else to stumble. And so, yeah, there's a
lot of people in my life who it's not constant
criticism by any means, I would say, you know, by
and large, it's a lot of like encouragement and you go,
and that's awesome. But I definitely have people who are
not afraid to say ah, I don't think so I
(10:29):
don't think that's right. And obviously I try to preempt
those mistakes by going to them and being like, what
do you think about this? Should I talk about this?
Should I approach this? And I don't always get it right,
you know, by any means, but I'm just thankful that
I have people who are willing to speak into that.
Speaker 3 (10:47):
So what do you do?
Speaker 1 (10:48):
So your dad goes to you, Ali, I think you're
wrong in this, You start to agree with them, he
redukes you. Do you go back on social media and
correct anything?
Speaker 3 (10:57):
Or do you let it go?
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Trying to think about the specific instance, I've definitely done that.
I have definitely apologized for either my tone or something
that I said, And certainly if I ever make a mistake,
I always will correct it publicly, And obviously I want
to avoid that. No one likes being wrong. Everyone's goal
is to be great all the time, and so I
(11:21):
try to avoid that as much as I possibly can.
But I will always correct the record if I say
something wrong, or if I misrepresented something, or if I
unfairly criticize someone. And I can't even think about like
a specific instance because I try not to do that,
but I have. I've definitely gone back. I actually just
had to correct the record on something today. It was
(11:43):
something my guest said, not something I said, but she
kind of threw someone under the bus, and it was
it ended up being the wrong person. It's a little
hard sometimes with the guests too, because I can't always
fact check them in the moment. But yes, I because
you know, I want people to be able to trust
the show, and so being able to take that feedback
is important.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
Yeah, where do you think the show goes? Do you
think it continues to grow like it's growing now? Do
you think it reaches a level where you say, you
know what?
Speaker 3 (12:10):
I think that's enough.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
Hmmm. I'm trying to decide what I want to like,
what I want to say publicly, but to be candid,
I don't see the show lasting forever. I love it,
but I have we have some other my husband and
I have some other ideas too. In addition, right, I
have no by the way, like I have no plans
(12:33):
to quit the show like that is not on the timeline.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
I truly love what I do, and I love talking
and all of that. So I plan unrelatable lasting but
talking long term and the next like ten to fifteen years.
I don't see myself going into a studio and having
a four times a week show. I just I just
don't I don't know what exactly it looks like. I
(12:58):
don't see us quitting all of this all together there,
But we have some other ideas for some other projects
that hopefully continue to influence Christians to think about the
things that matter, but does not rely on my daily voice.
If that makes sense. So that's that's what I'll say.
Speaker 3 (13:16):
It makes total sense.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
I won't push you on that because I understand that
we live in such an interesting time where legacy media
doesn't dominate the consumption of the people.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
So there, I would say that because there are.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
Arguably probably say millions of people that rely on you
for their consumption of news and politics and Christian world order.
It's it's crazy, And this wouldn't have happened ten years ago.
You wouldn't have you wouldn't have had this opportunity ten
years ago. It's changed so much, and you have. You've
(13:54):
really challenged me, actually, because because it's hard for me
to You've challenged me that as a Christian, I need
to be in politics at some level. I can't completely
avoid it. Yeah, and I think to myself, how do
I keep up with it though, like how would I
(14:14):
keep informed about it? And so where do you get
your information? Where are you informed to then give your
Christian worldview about it?
Speaker 2 (14:25):
Well, I think there are different places you would go
a pastor versus a podcaster, And obviously you have a
podcast too, but it's not primarily focused on politics. I
don't think that a pastor and I know you agree
with this, needs to talk about the news every week
from the pulpit, or even needs to know everything that's
going on in the twenty four hour news cycle. I
(14:45):
would say that a pastor needs to know about policy
and particular policy that is going to affect his congregants
and his flock. And I think that pastors in general
probably need to do a better job of paying attention
to always saying preaching about, but paying attention to local policy,
especially any kind of local policy that has an effect
(15:08):
on their congregants and their congregants children. Like personally, I
would love to see, like say, there was a local
school where a bunch of parents in the congregation were
sending their kids and there was I don't know, some
kind of measure that was being pushed forward that would
allow boys into girls' bathrooms, or maybe it's the promotion
(15:29):
of pornographic materials in school. I think it would be
completely within the purview of a pastor to speak in
to that. And maybe they don't get into the nitty
gritty of the policy. Maybe they do, but to ensure
that their congregants know the underneath biblical principles of that,
like what is the role of the parent, What is
(15:51):
the role of the church, What is the role of
the civil government, What is the role of the parent
When it comes to education, like how should we think
about public education versus Christian education? What should we think
about gender? What should we think about sexuality? All of
those things, they have become political. Unfortunately, it's not that
(16:11):
it's not that pastors are becoming political. It is that
politics has become very theological and pastors as like you know,
the theologians and the shepherds of their flock. Where those
two things intersect, especially when there is going to be
a tangible impact on their community, I do think have
a responsibility to speak up. And I've said before, and
(16:34):
I'm sure you agree with this. I might have even
said it in our conversation that pastors, if they are
preaching faithfully through the Bible. It's only going to take
them twenty seven verses into Genesis to get into quote
unquote politics, because right there we see that God created
as male and female in his image. So we get
the sanctity of life, We get the definition of gender
(16:56):
and the definition of marriage all in one in the
very first chapter of the first book of the Bible.
Those are called culture war issues, but those are really
creation issues. And so if a pastor is simply preaching
the Bible, not talking about so called politics at all,
he's going to weigh into those controversial subjects. And pastors
who avoid those things, it's not that you're avoiding politics,
(17:17):
is that you're avoiding scripture. That's inconvenient, and so I
just think I think it's inevitable. There are probably a
variety of ways to do it faithfully, but I do
think there is a responsibility there.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
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(17:50):
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(18:12):
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Speaker 3 (18:24):
As a reminder, you.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
Could always get a hold of me on cameo dot
com slash granger Smith. It's a great way to get
a message a video message from me from anywhere in
the world to whoever you want to send it to.
You go to cameo dot com slash granger Smith and
you fill out whatever you want me to say. Happy anniversary,
happy birthday. May be a word of encouragement to someone
that needs to hear it and that person may be you,
(18:47):
and then I'll send you a video message. It's super
easy and it's a good gift. I've been doing this
for many years now. It's a good gift to someone
that is impossible to buy for and you don't know
what to get them. Once again, go to cameo dot
com slash Granger Smith. I got to tell you all
about this. Have you heard about yege Fest. It's happening
(19:07):
this year May ninth and tenth in Georgetown, Texas at
the EEE Farm, So you can come hang out with us. Me,
my brothers, my family will all be there. We've got
a truck show happening. We've got a mud bog competition,
kind of like we did last year, but the new
edition this year is a concert by me and my
band and my old crew. This is not a tour.
This is not me getting back into music. This is
(19:28):
one time every year we hope to do a concert
for my friends and family, especially Maverick who's never seen
me play live before. So come out have a meal
with me and my family on Friday night. I'm going
to give a little devotional from the Bible, maybe play
an acoustic song, or two. This is really a once
in a lifetime experience, and if you want to find
out more, go to eeye dot com.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
Yeah, I think you're right. How do you word it?
You say, politics affects policy. Policy affects people.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
Politics matter because policy matters, because people matter. Politics affects policy,
policy affects people.
Speaker 3 (19:59):
Yeah. Yeah, that's that's fantastic.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
And I need to I need to be better about
just being aware because sometimes I watch you and I
go she just is always aware of the changing tide of.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
Even I'm behind I feel like I'm behind it. I
don't know if that makes you feel better or worse,
but sure you like because I don't even have the
daily news show. I've got two interviews a week that
I talk about evergreen stuff, theology, whatever, and then too
where we try to talk about culture politics, and I
never ever ever have time to cover everything that's going on.
(20:35):
And honestly, sometimes you just need to ignore the current
news cycle because it's gonna fade out and it's really
not that important and you just have to have the
discernment to.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
Know, Yeah, you're good. I totally agree.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
Let's let's let's go to where this kind of all intersects,
and that is this book Toxic Empathy with a with
across right there at the ex I like that it
works really good. Toxic empathy, how progressives exploit Christian compassion.
This is a very important discussion. It's a very important book.
(21:10):
And this is something that Christians have been talking about
for maybe around a decade in a way, the misdefinition
of empathy. And in your book, this kind of begins
for you in twenty twenty, which it did for.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
A lot of us.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
You kind of walked through at the beginning of your book,
the George Floyd incident, and I was right there with you.
I remember during George Floyd, during the you're watching everyone
post the Black Squares and you kind of describe how
there's the secular people, then there's Christians, but they're kind
of coming together, and it's like, oh.
Speaker 3 (21:50):
Is this a cool moment of unity?
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Maybe?
Speaker 1 (21:53):
I remember my first reaction was and I posted this
my first reaction, and I was an idiot for kind
of a knee jerk, but I was like, all people matter,
you know, And that sounds crazy now because that in
itself is it's like equivalent to a racial slur. These days,
All people matter and I do remember deleting that and
(22:16):
trying to rethink why wait, why, because I've got I
got so much hate, And it was before I even
knew that that was a thing that was just I
remember thinking, I really need to sit with this. And
I could see in your book you walking through this yourself,
kind of unpacking the implications. Is one thing led to
another as we watched it unfold. Fascinating and I love
(22:41):
that that's the way you start this book because it
takes us on a very important journey that everyone needs
to talk about, and that is our empathy of just
like a bunch of words have been hijacked, and it's
not for our good.
Speaker 3 (22:59):
You find it at the very beginning.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
You're saying, the ability to place yourself in another person's shoes,
with or without having a similar experience is typically called empathy. Okay,
there's nothing inherently wrong with that, But then you say,
empathy has been hijacked for the purpose of conforming well
intentioned people to particular political agendas. Specifically, it's been co
(23:21):
opted by the progressive wing of American society to convince
people that the progressive position is exclusively the one of
kindness and morality. This is where you call it toxic empathy.
Fascinating stuff you talk about how this you say your
(23:43):
feeling and my feeling too. No one wants to be
seen as unempathetic because a person who completely lacks empathy
may be called a narcissist, and that we're so scared
of that word, like, oh, man, I don't want to
be a narcissist, but you say it extorts a real
good desire that most people have, which is to be
and to be perceived as kind. Right, so then we
(24:07):
you unpack. But empathy and kindness are not synonymous, and
neither empathy and compassion. Kindness describes how we treat someone,
either in word or deed. Compassion means to suffer with
someone who's struggling. Both kindness and compassion are necessary components
of love, but empathy literally means to be in the
feelings of another person. Empathy, by itself is neither loving
(24:30):
nor kind It's just an emotion.
Speaker 3 (24:33):
Love, on the other.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
Hand, is a conscious choice to seek good for another person.
Speaker 3 (24:38):
That's oh, that is so important. It's so important to
be said, and.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
It's you laid it out in such a transparent way,
So thank you.
Speaker 3 (24:51):
For this book, I should say.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
Well, thank you, I appreciate that. Yeah, a lot of
people were really confused in twenty twenty, of myself included,
and there is a lot of a lot of grace
for the kind of back and forth you mentioned, posting
something then deleting it, not really knowing what the right
thing is, not knowing the whole context of like why
(25:15):
everyone was posting. A lot of people felt that way,
and it was probably only because I was kind of
plugged into the news and had watched this Black Lives
Matter movement, you know, come to the forefront that I
immediately was a little skeptical and struggled with that because
whenever I see something like a hashtag black Lives Matter,
(25:36):
I know I can't take that at face value. That
is an organization that has values that don't align with mine,
and we can get into that a little bit. More So,
when I saw that black square everyone posting it, I
knew that within that posting was the assumption that George
Floyd was murdered because of his race, and I could
not get on board with that assumption yet because I
(25:58):
did not know that no one knew that by the way,
based on the video footage that we saw, which was
very scandalous to say at the time, and when I
started trying to like push back against it and to say, look,
at least look at the other people over here who
are being damaged and hurt by the riots and by
the looting that's going on in the name of honoring
(26:19):
George Floyd. These people are also black. These people are innocent,
These people are poor. There was this horrible video that
I remember seeing of a woman who she lived in
this town, maybe it was in Kenosha, I don't remember
which town it was that ended up burning down the
stores being looted. She was like, I can't even go
get my prescription medicine right now. This is like an
(26:39):
older black lady who is just crying because her town
and where she earns her livelihood and where she gets
her necessities has been ransacked by these people who were
rioting in the name of racial justice. And when I
tried to say, look, there are other people on the
side of this moral equation that we shouldn't ignore, the
(27:00):
thing that I heard over and over again was you're
not showing empathy, you're not having empathy. And of course
what they meant was is that I'm not putting all
my empathy in the direction that they want it to.
My empathy isn't going the way that they want it
to go. I'm supposed to apparently ignore the people over here,
ignore the facts, ignore the unanswered questions, and just unconditionally
(27:22):
support a cause because that is the empathetic way. I
was even told by some Christians that right now the
truth doesn't matter because we should just show empathy. So
that's really what started, you know, getting me to think
about things like, Okay, they're using empathy as a synonym
for love, but is it really loving to lie to someone?
(27:43):
Like if someone says I think all police officers are racist,
I think America is systemically racist from the core, that
everyone who is not white is disadvantaged, that we have
endemic white privilege, that the church is inherently white supremacist,
all this stuff. Someone believes that, Is it really loving
of me to affirm it? If I know that the
(28:05):
facts don't bear that out, and if I know that
that's not even a biblical definition of justice to lump
everyone in, you know, into a guilty category because of
their lack of melanin, is it really loving for me?
And the name of empathy to say, yeah, yeah, I
know you feel that way, and you are right about that,
and I am here with you. To me, that would
be like if my daughter, you know, three years old,
(28:28):
said there's a monster in the corner of her room.
I know it's a pile of clothes, but I say,
you should be scared. That is a monster and it's
gonna come get you. That's not loving. The loving thing
for me to do would be to turn the light
on now, not rudely, not aggressively, not discounting her feelings,
but saying, I love you so much, you're protected, you're safe.
(28:51):
Look at what this really is. And I know it's
a bit more complex and layered when we're talking about
all of these you know, racial issues in the United States,
which America has had. But that was what I wrestled
with so much in that summer of twenty twenty and
why what I tried to kind of like push back against.
And that is where this like when I realized, Wow,
(29:11):
this empathy, this being in one particular side feelings, one
purported victim's feelings and ignoring everything else, really is deluding
a lot of people and messing up their perception of
truth and justice and love and goodness, and then I
saw how it manifests itself in abortion and gender in
marriage and all of these other issues too, and that
(29:33):
was kind of the basis of my book.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
It's it's fascinating because I've used that illustration similar with
my son Maverick, who's three me.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
You have.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
And when I'm talking to men that say they're they're
weak in their faith, or they've lost their faith, or
they they don't have a faith, I try to I
think of it in terms of if faith, having faith
would be to trust someone, then you could only trust
someone as far as you know them. And as God
has revealed himself through his word, we could learn to
(30:06):
trust him by learning more and more who he is
through his word. And I say, Maverick could be in
his room seeing shadows in the corner, and he could
call for me because he's scared, he's terrified. But all
I have to do is walk in there and say
I'm right here, it's okay. And he believes me because
(30:27):
he knows me, because he trusts me. And so many
times we could be scared of these these dark shadows,
and that would only be because we don't know who
is with us?
Speaker 2 (30:41):
Right?
Speaker 3 (30:41):
You took a huge step.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
I believe you took a huge step with this book
because I open it up and I'm thinking, you know,
I'm wondering how you're going to lay this out. You
open it up to the contents, and it's like, oh,
this is all it says in the contents page introduction.
Lie number one, abortion is healthcare, Lie number two, trans
(31:09):
women or women, Lie number three, Love is love, Lie
number four, No human is illegal, Line number five, social
justice is justice.
Speaker 3 (31:17):
Conclusion. That's it. That's the book.
Speaker 1 (31:20):
And I was like, oh, man, she came with a sword.
I mean, you're not messing around. It's just five lives
and you unpack each other. You knew when you I
bet when the box came to your house and you
got this. You pulled this book out for the first time.
You must have been full of joy and at the
(31:41):
same time knowing the weight of what was going to
happen when this went out, because you're coming with a sword.
How how have you felt now that it's been for
five six months since it's been out. How have you
felt with the reaction? Are you cautious about reading some
of the reviews knowing that they're coming after you.
Speaker 3 (32:04):
Are you so confident?
Speaker 2 (32:07):
Uh, let's see. I honestly, I didn't really. I didn't
think about it like that. I didn't think, oh my gosh,
this is going to make such a huge impact and
so many people are going to be mad about this.
I knew that it was a possibility that the usual
suspects would be mad. Obviously, I knew progressives would not
(32:28):
like it. I actually the parts that I thought would
be a lot more controversial haven't really, as far as
I know, landed anywhere. Like, for example, my whole chapter
about same sex so called marriage or same sex unions
and why I really think Oberga Fell was the wrong decision.
(32:49):
I thought that that would make a bigger splash. My
social justice chapter where I say some very inconvenient facts
about crime and prison in the United States. I thought
that would be the thing that kind of ruffles some feathers.
But really what made people the angriest is just the title,
(33:13):
and I was not expecting that that people even though
the subtitle explains what I'm talking about that I'm not
saying that every form of empathy is toxic and that
all manifestations of empathy are toxic. That's you know, I
address that in the very introduction, but even the subtitle
that says how progressives exploit Christian compassion, that is what
(33:38):
I'm talking about, That this is a form of empathy
that has been hijacked and manipulated. Not that all empathy
is in itself toxic, but people have taken the title
and have said, you know, David French just put an
article out in the New York Times that you know,
people like Alibeth Stucky are against empathy and they're against
(34:01):
anyone using their empathy to think through issues, and all
kinds of people who just touch that title yes and
just say, oh, you know, she doesn't have any empathy.
She's against all empathy. People shouldn't have empathy for her
because she doesn't have empathy for anyone. I'm surprised at
how much conversation and dialogue and heated debate the title alone,
(34:25):
cause I'm thankful for it. I mean, every author wants
the title of their book to become kind of like
part of the lexicon and part of the dialogue. I
wish some of the people misrepresenting it would actually read
the book, even if they disagree, Like I'm fine with
the review from someone who says I didn't like it
because of X y Z, but read it, read it
(34:46):
beyond the first two words, but a lot of the
misrepresentations just aren't truthful. To answer your question, I don't
really read the I don't read the negative reviews.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
I just don't.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
I mean, I don't think that there's any like good
re too.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
Honestly, you can't, and I don't think anybody would advise
you to it. It's not sustainable. I don't think we're
built to sit there and read random criticism from people
that we are so far disconnected with. We have no
idea who they are, where they live, or what their
worldview is.
Speaker 3 (35:20):
We have no idea. It wouldn't be healthy at all.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
It's fairly healthy to hear criticism from someone at the
grocery store in the right behind you in line, much
less someone that's in a different country that the English
is not even their first language.
Speaker 3 (35:34):
So I was going, That's where I was going.
Speaker 1 (35:36):
I was wondering, if you kind of what precautions you
put up for yourself to protect yourself.
Speaker 3 (35:42):
I actually looked.
Speaker 1 (35:44):
This morning and went through your Instagram from the last
couple of months, and I found one time that you
commented on one of your posts to someone else and
so that you could correct me if I'm wrong, But
I thought, I bet you she doesn't go back and
look and read through to protect yourself, which would be wise.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
Yes, I try not to. Now there are times when
I have, and I was way worse about that when
I first started, like when I was just posting on
a blog, and like, I just think about that time wasted.
People need to remember that your time can either be
an expense or an investment, just like your finances. You
can either just spend it and waste it, or you
can get a return on it. And all of the
(36:27):
times that I have spent reading through comments and just
getting riled up about it is wasted time. It's really,
it's not redemptive time at all. Those are not seeds
that you know I've planned that will bloom an eternity.
That is like anxiety and worry and fear wasted. And
so you're right. I don't typically do that. And it's
(36:48):
not even just for that to protect my own piece.
It's because it's hard for me to have self control
when I want to respond to people, because I want
to match their sassiness. I want to be rude back
to them. I want to insult them back, and so
it you know, I mean, it inspire sin and so
I just don't. I just try not to. But I'll
(37:09):
tell you also like a little story, and this is
all part of the apparatus of trying to protect that.
My friend the other day, I actually don't really like
love it when this happens. But I had a friend
and you know, well meaning sent me something saying like,
did you see this like podcast that these two people
did about you, talking about you misrepresenting you? And I
(37:30):
was like, no, I didn't see that. And so I
whipped at my husband and I was like, hey, did
you see this? And he was like, oh, yeah, I
listened to it yesterday. He was like I wanted to
listen to it just to see like if they said
anything or you know, if there was any like response
to you. It was fine, They're just stupid and don't
worry about it. And so that like I feel very
(37:52):
covered and like protected that. My husband is like fielding
a lot of that criticism. He's not responding to them,
but he's can out and I don't feel like if
he doesn't feel like there's a threat. That's the only
thing I'm worried about. Is there a threat to my kids?
Is there a threat to us? Is there some like
crazy lie going on out there? And I feel that
he is looking out for that, and if he's doing that,
(38:15):
then I don't need to worry about it at all.
Speaker 1 (38:18):
Yeah, amen, that's great. I do feel like Amber covers
a lot for me as well. In a similar way.
I'll see something really negative or something that's kind of
growing virally about me, and Amber will always be like, oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (38:34):
I saw it.
Speaker 1 (38:35):
I wasn't gonna say anything about it, you know, so
Cheryl catch it before I do. And then does that
ever come up in the church? Are you pastored in
that way? Do you ever have an elder coming? And
is that ever a discussion through your husband?
Speaker 2 (38:50):
Okay, well there was. I can think of a couple instances,
and maybe there's been more over the years. But when
last year, a couple of years ago, I was duly
catching a lot of heat, all these all of a sudden,
these like or it seems like all of a sudden
to me. These critics came out being like she's an
undercover feminist because she has a podcast and women shouldn't
(39:10):
be podcasting, they shouldn't be talking about cultural issues at all.
And all of a sudden, it seems like there was
just this growing group of people who I would have thought, Okay,
we're on the same team, we're both Christian conservatives, being like,
no one should listen to her simply because she's a woman.
This is a culture war. Women shouldn't be fighting battles.
And I'm like, I'm just talking. This is I mean,
(39:30):
it's a metaphor, this is not literal battle. I agree
women shouldn't be in combat, but we're talking here and so,
but that was very stressful because it wasn't just progressive
as being like, oh, she's pro life or something, because
I understand those people have a different worldview. It's people
kind of on my team and it and it went
into the personal realm of oh wow, like am I
(39:51):
good mom? Am I good wife? Am I like a
following Ephesians five? Like all of this stuff. It kind
of cut deep as someone who doesn't even believe women
should be pastors, women should preach. I don't call myself
a feminist. I'm very much a complimentarian. To have these
people who call themselves beyond complimentarian say you know, I'm
too liberal. That kind of hurt me, and I just
(40:12):
remember my pastor very like kind of subtly, but clearly
and directly. He just you know, came up to my
husband and me after the sermon one day it was like,
I just want you to know, like, sorry, I'm not
about to cry. I just got something.
Speaker 3 (40:30):
I get it.
Speaker 2 (40:35):
He just said, you know, I just want you to
know that we are with you, and we believe that
what you are doing and how y'all are organizing your
life is right and good and we support you one
hundred percent. He's also very protective of, like our privacy.
There have been times where he's been like, can I
like direct people towards your you know, towards your podcast
(40:56):
before the election and stuff, or do you want you
know to be private? But he's been very supportive. And
then when my book came out and some of the
criticism that I got from people like Russell Moore and
David French and all of that was out there, the
executive pastor also kind of had a conversation with my
husband and me after service one day and was like,
(41:18):
I read your book. I think it's brave it's good,
it's biblical. Thank you for writing it, and that like
coming from your pastors, it just means a lot. It
means a lot, and so you just feel very protected
on a variety of fronts family church, and again that
insulates you from a lot, a lot of the craziness
(41:38):
and just the exhaustion that comes with the whole news
and politics world.
Speaker 3 (41:43):
That is so encouraging to hear.
Speaker 1 (41:47):
It sounds like you have a very faithful church, and
I you know, to come full circle in this conversation,
why it is so important for everybody, not just a
famous podcaster like yourself, but for anybody to be surrounded
by wise counsel, to be under expositional teaching, to be
under a in the body of a group of believers
(42:09):
that are holding each other accountable in all the different aspects.
I mean you, you, as a member of your church,
are different than the person sitting right down the aisle.
But that's how a body is. That eye is different.
Speaker 3 (42:21):
Than the hand.
Speaker 1 (42:21):
And and so to hear that you're pastored well, to
hear that your husband is your your business manager, that
your kids travel with you, so encouraging and inspiring and
evident in the boldness and the truthfulness that you speak
with in your program and all in your social media.
(42:42):
Knowing that that's grounded on a a team of people
that love you is encouraging to know that you're in
good hands.
Speaker 2 (42:55):
Well, thank you. I appreciate that so much. And I
also all of this gives me a lot of freedom.
I think what also makes me feel bold is that
I truly feel like if at any point I was like,
I don't want to do this anymore, I don't want
to do this, then I totally could. I don't feel
any pressure from my husband or anyone to like keep going.
(43:18):
And he has always told me he wants he wants
to do this one. We love working together, we love
building things together. But he's always said, it's the love
for what I do goes beyond being willing to do
it for free, like I would pay to do it.
That's what he's always said, like he would pay to
do what you do. And he's always just wanted to
support that as much as possible. But he has always said,
(43:42):
if you don't want to do that at any point,
don't stop. We'll figure it out. And that, I mean,
there's just so much freedom in that and beauty in
that too. So yes, I'm very very grateful.
Speaker 1 (43:57):
Yeah, you're holding it with an open hand. And the
minute you start closing that fist around it, you're going
to chase things harder, You're going to dig deeper, you're
going to be try to be more controversial than you
need to be. Yeah, And so the fact that you're
holding it loosely is I believe biblical and and and
that's why I believe you're as happy as you are
(44:18):
because you just seem with all the things going on,
you could easily be jaded and depressed and you know, frazzled,
and you just you kind of just always seem level
and that's encouraging. Let me ask you, did you did
you have a radical conversion or do you Are you
one of those that just you grew up in a
Christian home and you you can't remember a time when
(44:42):
you're not you're not a Christian.
Speaker 2 (44:44):
Yeah. I would not call it a radical conversion, and
I was definitely raised in a Christian home. Very thankful
for that. I will say that there was some back tracking,
if you would even call it that. I want to
be as accurate as possible, but there was a time
in college and a little bit after and I write
about this in my first book, where I just decided
(45:05):
that I wanted to see what the party life was about.
And it was very stupid and even though you know,
some people would laugh like, oh, that's what everyone does
in college, and yeah, that's you know, what college students
should do, at least it was isolated to that. I
don't think of it like that. I don't think of
that period of time in my life when I was
twenty one twenty two and I decided to party and
(45:25):
rely on like unhealthy relationships for attention as just like
this trivial time. I see it as time wasted. I
don't beat myself up about it every day, because I'm
thankful for the grace of God and how He's redeemed
me and all of that. But what makes me sad
about it is that I knew better and I still
decided to go down that path. I ended up developing
(45:47):
an eating disorder that ended up God ended up using
that to actually like bring me back because a biblical
counselor spoke truth into my life because of that addiction
that I had. But I just I really see that
period of like just sin and rebellion in my life,
with a lot of like, with a lot of sadness,
(46:08):
a lot of gratitude for God for just being so
gracious and bringing me back and just being as forgiving
and kind as he is. But I think I think
it's good. I'm glad I feel sad about that time.
I think we should always feel sad about sin. I
think we should always feel that grief about it. And
it also has given me a lot of I hope,
(46:30):
wisdom to be able to equip my daughters for whenever,
you know, whatever they go out into the world and
whatever that looks like. It's so easy to trivialize sin
when you're young. It's not trivial. Like sin is never trivial.
It's never trivial. That's what I want to tell people.
It's ver small and so yeah, I don't know if
(46:50):
I would call that a radical conversion. But I also
can't say that it was a straight line from A
to b if a testimony, ever, is a straight line
from A to B. Yeah, And you know, God works
all things together for our good and his glory, and
even that part of my life he has and will.
But yes, there was that period of just turning my
back on things in college that i'm yeah, still sad about.
Speaker 1 (47:12):
Yeah, that's good because a small view of sin is
always a result of a small view of God and
your sans these is always a big view of God
and so on.
Speaker 3 (47:25):
Behalf of so many.
Speaker 1 (47:26):
I say thank you and I'm honored that you spent
some of your valuable time with me on the pod today.
So yeah, thank you. Great talking with you again.
Speaker 3 (47:36):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (47:36):
Yes, it was a joy to talk to you. Thank
you so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (47:39):
Of course, thanks for joining me on the Grangersmith podcast.
I appreciate all of you.
Speaker 3 (47:44):
Guys.
Speaker 1 (47:45):
You could help me out by rating this podcast on iTunes.
If you're on YouTube, subscribe to this channel, hit that
little like button and notification spell so that you never
miss anytime I upload a video. Yigi
How did you learn what a healthy church is? Tell
me walk me through that.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Yes, well, I was raised Christian, and I'm very grateful
for that. I was raised also going to a Christian school.
And I credit first of all my parents for just
how they discipled me, and yes my mom and my dad,
but primarily my mom. And I think a lot of
people would say that just because you spend the most
time with your mom growing up and seeing her example
(00:30):
of every single morning having her journal and her coffee
and her Bible out, how she diligently prayed with me,
how she how she's sang hymns with me every night,
and we were just very close and had that connection.
And I just followed her example in loving scripture and
loving worship more than the Christian school kindergarten through twelfth grade,
(00:52):
more than the Ijuanas, more than the Southern Baptist tradition
of going to church on Wednesdays and Sunday mornings and
Sunday nights, which were all beautiful and all blessings. Like
I credit just the example in the diligence of my
parents in discipleship. And also my grandmother lived with me
until I was thirteen. We were very close and also
her example. Both of my grandmother and my mom were
(01:15):
both teachers by trade for a while before I was born,
and they used that gift that God gave them to
really disciple my brothers and me, but a lot of
me because my brothers are a lot older than me.
So anyway, I was just the beneficiary of a lot
of good teaching. But it wasn't really until high school
that I started taking my faith seriously and personally digging
(01:38):
into apologetics and theology. That's when I started considering if
I was what is typically referred to as reformed, although
I wouldn't have necessarily called myself that reading C. S.
Lewis and Tim Keller and John Piper, Matt Chandler at
the time. This was all probably junior in high school,
and I actually started going to another church independent of
(02:02):
my parents that was maybe a little bit more in
that direction. My friend gifted me with an ESV Study
Bible when I was a freshman in college, which totally
shaped my theology and still does to this day. And
I would say I kind of marched steadily towards that
like reformed camp, and that really shaped my theology. And
so that means a lot of exa Jesus, a lot
(02:24):
of theology, a lot of Bible, and I had been
somewhat raised with a little bit of a prosperity tinge,
I would say, to some of my theology, or at
least there was an acceptance of the Jolo Stein theology
a bit. And so when I dug into biblical theology
(02:44):
and expository preaching, it was like a whole new intellectual
world for me. And so when my husband and I
got married, because shared that love, shared that passion, and
we knew that we wanted expository preaching when we selected
a church. Now, we're Baptists, and we're both Southern Baptists,
(03:05):
and so that's not typically like in the Reformed camp.
That's typically Presbyterian, and we don't have to get into
the nitty gritty of everything that means. But that's primarily
what we were looking for. We were looking for a church
that teaches exogetically and that sticks to the word, and
(03:26):
that isn't going to compromise when everyone else is compromising.
Twenty twenty was a big test for everyone, and I
was very thankful that my church stayed open, that my
church stood firm, that my church has been clear. And
also another thing for us is that it would be
easy to get involved. There are solid churches, big churches
(03:48):
that are great, but they're hard to get involved in. Like,
we went to a church when we were just married
that we tried to join a small group. You couldn't
even join a small group anytime you wanted. It was
every six months and only if there was an opening,
and so like, what were you supposed to do? Just
wait in the pews until someone maybe came up to
you and I don't know, welcomed you in, but if not,
(04:11):
you're just kind of going to be stranded. The church
that we're in now, it was so easy to get
plugged in, to go to a Sunday school class and
to find you know, those people and those opportunities to serve.
And so those are the two of the things that
we were looking for.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
Yeah, that's fantastic. We're on the exact same page with that.
And I am not against big churches. I feel like
I need to say that often because because it starts
to sound like I'm pro small church and that's the
only way to do it. There are plenty unhealthy small churches,
but you need to have enough shepherds for the amount
(04:50):
of sheep you have. And yeah, that's that's usually what's lost.
So if you have a big ranch, you would want
you have a lot of cattle. You want a lot
of ranch hands for the amount of cattle. And usually
we don't see churches that way. You you have a
megachurch and just not enough leadership. That's why people get lost.
That's why people aren't responding. You can't get into a
(05:10):
small group or whatever. So in that aspect, it's wiser
to be in a church that's that's the right size
proportionally to its eldership. I don't I honestly, sitting here
right now, I don't know the church that you go to,
but I probably know them if we talked offline, I'm
(05:30):
sure I know them. Because it's, uh, that's exactly what
I would want my family to experience in church, and
that's what I want any of my listeners to know
about church, because I have so many people I'm sure
you too, so many people go. You know what, I
don't need church. I find God in the woods. I
love hunting, and that's where I really experience God. And
(05:51):
the idea of being involved in a local body serving
a local body, being served by a local body is rare.
And then to see you on your platform be involved
and be in the nursery is It's incredible. It's an
incredible blessing.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Well, we see a lot of people and this is
not to say you know, I'm it's what I do
is like very small potatoes compared to those who are
you know, like who have huge, mega platforms and get
super famous in all of that. But any form of
platform or any form of influence that anyone has, there's
always going to be an opportunity to get sucked into
(06:35):
the rat race and get sucked into the opportunism and
the ambition that exists there. And I think like the
cheat code outside of just the grace of God and
the protection of God that has nothing to do with
my own efforts. But in addition to that, like the
cheat code to avoiding that craziness, the gossip, the backstabbing,
(06:55):
the betrayal that even exists in like smaller conservative media,
because all that exists, the corruption, the I mean, there's
just craziness that goes on behind the scenes. There is
living a normal life and having a normal family, not
only having like a normal loving marriage, where you spend
a ton of time together. You travel together. You're not
(07:17):
like traveling off by yourself all the time, but you're
together with your family. The closer you can be to
real everyday people who know you, who know your life,
who can speak into your life, who can say you're
off on that you're going too far in that direction.
You need to say no to that that's not good
(07:37):
to you, or that's not good for you, or whatever
it is, or encourage you like on the other end,
like yes, you are doing great at whatever it is.
The more that you can be plugged into your church,
the more that you can try as much as you
can to just maintain normal friendships people who don't have
any kind of platform like that is the cheat code.
(07:57):
That is how you stay honest and normal and saying.
People ask me all the time, how do you talk
about like the news and all of this sad stuff
without getting just sad and stressed and spit And it's
because I have. It's because of my life, it's because
of my family, it's because of my marriage. In addition,
of course, to the grace of God, it's because of
(08:18):
all of the normalcy and stability that I have that
I think is what charges me and gives me the
ability to talk about the chaos that's going on in
the world because I have a respite in my everyday life.
So that's advice that I would give to anyone.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
Yeah, that's good.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
Can you think of a time when someone in your
family said, Ali, you're off, You're off on this.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
Oh, my dad calls me all the time, and it's like,
I mean, not a big deal. I mean he is like,
besides my husband, like my biggest cheerleader ever, and so
I never doubt that. I mean, he's on the show
all the time. If my husband for some reason can't
travel with me, my dad travels with me all the time.
And yeah, so he's great and I always trust to
and I always will hear him out, but he will
(09:03):
definitely be like, you know, I think that you should
have talked to that person privately before you brought that
up on the show. And I'm like, uh, I think
that you're right. I shouldn't have because or you know,
I think that you made around call about that or
here's what you're not seeing about that. And so my
dad does that. My mom has at times, and I
try to be really careful and really discerning with everything
(09:25):
I say. But my mom has at times been like,
you know what, I don't think that this was the
most the best thing that you could have said on
social media today about that my brother a few years ago. Okay,
So I don't cuss at all, I especially like not publicly.
But I think I said something one time, like I
don't know, maybe seven years ago. I think I said
(09:47):
like bad a or something on Twitter. Uh, now I'm
talking about publicly here, okay, And so, and my brother
texted me and was like, you don't need to say
something like that, like it just doesn't add anything to
your argument. And I was like, you're totally right. There's
no reason for me to say something like that. It
(10:07):
doesn't make me sound smarter and if anything, it could
cost someone else to stumble. And so, yeah, there's a
lot of people in my life who it's not constant
criticism by any means, I would say, you know, by
and large, it's a lot of like encouragement and you go,
and that's awesome. But I definitely have people who are
not afraid to say ah, I don't think so I
(10:29):
don't think that's right. And obviously I try to preempt
those mistakes by going to them and being like, what
do you think about this? Should I talk about this?
Should I approach this? And I don't always get it right,
you know, by any means, but I'm just thankful that
I have people who are willing to speak into that.
Speaker 3 (10:47):
So what do you do?
Speaker 1 (10:48):
So your dad goes to you, Ali, I think you're
wrong in this, You start to agree with them, he
redukes you. Do you go back on social media and
correct anything?
Speaker 3 (10:57):
Or do you let it go?
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Trying to think about the specific instance, I've definitely done that.
I have definitely apologized for either my tone or something
that I said, And certainly if I ever make a mistake,
I always will correct it publicly, And obviously I want
to avoid that. No one likes being wrong. Everyone's goal
is to be great all the time, and so I
(11:21):
try to avoid that as much as I possibly can.
But I will always correct the record if I say
something wrong, or if I misrepresented something, or if I
unfairly criticize someone. And I can't even think about like
a specific instance because I try not to do that,
but I have. I've definitely gone back. I actually just
had to correct the record on something today. It was
(11:43):
something my guest said, not something I said, but she
kind of threw someone under the bus, and it was
it ended up being the wrong person. It's a little
hard sometimes with the guests too, because I can't always
fact check them in the moment. But yes, I because
you know, I want people to be able to trust
the show, and so being able to take that feedback
is important.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
Yeah, where do you think the show goes? Do you
think it continues to grow like it's growing now? Do
you think it reaches a level where you say, you
know what?
Speaker 3 (12:10):
I think that's enough.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
Hmmm. I'm trying to decide what I want to like,
what I want to say publicly, but to be candid,
I don't see the show lasting forever. I love it,
but I have we have some other my husband and
I have some other ideas too. In addition, right, I
have no by the way, like I have no plans
(12:33):
to quit the show like that is not on the timeline.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
I truly love what I do, and I love talking
and all of that. So I plan unrelatable lasting but
talking long term and the next like ten to fifteen years.
I don't see myself going into a studio and having
a four times a week show. I just I just
don't I don't know what exactly it looks like. I
(12:58):
don't see us quitting all of this all together there,
But we have some other ideas for some other projects
that hopefully continue to influence Christians to think about the
things that matter, but does not rely on my daily voice.
If that makes sense. So that's that's what I'll say.
Speaker 3 (13:16):
It makes total sense.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
I won't push you on that because I understand that
we live in such an interesting time where legacy media
doesn't dominate the consumption of the people.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
So there, I would say that because there are.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
Arguably probably say millions of people that rely on you
for their consumption of news and politics and Christian world order.
It's it's crazy, And this wouldn't have happened ten years ago.
You wouldn't have you wouldn't have had this opportunity ten
years ago. It's changed so much, and you have. You've
(13:54):
really challenged me, actually, because because it's hard for me
to You've challenged me that as a Christian, I need
to be in politics at some level. I can't completely
avoid it. Yeah, and I think to myself, how do
I keep up with it though, like how would I
(14:14):
keep informed about it? And so where do you get
your information? Where are you informed to then give your
Christian worldview about it?
Speaker 2 (14:25):
Well, I think there are different places you would go
a pastor versus a podcaster, And obviously you have a
podcast too, but it's not primarily focused on politics. I
don't think that a pastor and I know you agree
with this, needs to talk about the news every week
from the pulpit, or even needs to know everything that's
going on in the twenty four hour news cycle. I
(14:45):
would say that a pastor needs to know about policy
and particular policy that is going to affect his congregants
and his flock. And I think that pastors in general
probably need to do a better job of paying attention
to always saying preaching about, but paying attention to local policy,
especially any kind of local policy that has an effect
(15:08):
on their congregants and their congregants children. Like personally, I
would love to see, like say, there was a local
school where a bunch of parents in the congregation were
sending their kids and there was I don't know, some
kind of measure that was being pushed forward that would
allow boys into girls' bathrooms, or maybe it's the promotion
(15:29):
of pornographic materials in school. I think it would be
completely within the purview of a pastor to speak in
to that. And maybe they don't get into the nitty
gritty of the policy. Maybe they do, but to ensure
that their congregants know the underneath biblical principles of that,
like what is the role of the parent, What is
(15:51):
the role of the church, What is the role of
the civil government, What is the role of the parent
When it comes to education, like how should we think
about public education versus Christian education? What should we think
about gender? What should we think about sexuality? All of
those things, they have become political. Unfortunately, it's not that
(16:11):
it's not that pastors are becoming political. It is that
politics has become very theological and pastors as like you know,
the theologians and the shepherds of their flock. Where those
two things intersect, especially when there is going to be
a tangible impact on their community, I do think have
a responsibility to speak up. And I've said before, and
(16:34):
I'm sure you agree with this. I might have even
said it in our conversation that pastors, if they are
preaching faithfully through the Bible. It's only going to take
them twenty seven verses into Genesis to get into quote
unquote politics, because right there we see that God created
as male and female in his image. So we get
the sanctity of life, We get the definition of gender
(16:56):
and the definition of marriage all in one in the
very first chapter of the first book of the Bible.
Those are called culture war issues, but those are really
creation issues. And so if a pastor is simply preaching
the Bible, not talking about so called politics at all,
he's going to weigh into those controversial subjects. And pastors
who avoid those things, it's not that you're avoiding politics,
(17:17):
is that you're avoiding scripture. That's inconvenient, and so I
just think I think it's inevitable. There are probably a
variety of ways to do it faithfully, but I do
think there is a responsibility there.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
You know, at some point in our lives, things got
a lot easier at gee dot com and grangerspent dot
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I know that kind of sounds complicated, but if you're
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(17:50):
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(18:12):
per month trial period at shopify dot com slash granger
all lowercase. Go to shopify dot com slash granger to
upgrade your selling today. Shopify dot com slash Granger.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
As a reminder, you.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
Could always get a hold of me on cameo dot
com slash granger Smith. It's a great way to get
a message a video message from me from anywhere in
the world to whoever you want to send it to.
You go to cameo dot com slash granger Smith and
you fill out whatever you want me to say. Happy anniversary,
happy birthday. May be a word of encouragement to someone
that needs to hear it and that person may be you,
(18:47):
and then I'll send you a video message. It's super
easy and it's a good gift. I've been doing this
for many years now. It's a good gift to someone
that is impossible to buy for and you don't know
what to get them. Once again, go to cameo dot
com slash Granger Smith. I got to tell you all
about this. Have you heard about yege Fest. It's happening
(19:07):
this year May ninth and tenth in Georgetown, Texas at
the EEE Farm, So you can come hang out with us. Me,
my brothers, my family will all be there. We've got
a truck show happening. We've got a mud bog competition,
kind of like we did last year, but the new
edition this year is a concert by me and my
band and my old crew. This is not a tour.
This is not me getting back into music. This is
(19:28):
one time every year we hope to do a concert
for my friends and family, especially Maverick who's never seen
me play live before. So come out have a meal
with me and my family on Friday night. I'm going
to give a little devotional from the Bible, maybe play
an acoustic song, or two. This is really a once
in a lifetime experience, and if you want to find
out more, go to eeye dot com.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
Yeah, I think you're right. How do you word it?
You say, politics affects policy. Policy affects people.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
Politics matter because policy matters, because people matter. Politics affects policy,
policy affects people.
Speaker 3 (19:59):
Yeah. Yeah, that's that's fantastic.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
And I need to I need to be better about
just being aware because sometimes I watch you and I
go she just is always aware of the changing tide of.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
Even I'm behind I feel like I'm behind it. I
don't know if that makes you feel better or worse,
but sure you like because I don't even have the
daily news show. I've got two interviews a week that
I talk about evergreen stuff, theology, whatever, and then too
where we try to talk about culture politics, and I
never ever ever have time to cover everything that's going on.
(20:35):
And honestly, sometimes you just need to ignore the current
news cycle because it's gonna fade out and it's really
not that important and you just have to have the
discernment to.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
Know, Yeah, you're good. I totally agree.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
Let's let's let's go to where this kind of all intersects,
and that is this book Toxic Empathy with a with
across right there at the ex I like that it
works really good. Toxic empathy, how progressives exploit Christian compassion.
This is a very important discussion. It's a very important book.
(21:10):
And this is something that Christians have been talking about
for maybe around a decade in a way, the misdefinition
of empathy. And in your book, this kind of begins
for you in twenty twenty, which it did for.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
A lot of us.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
You kind of walked through at the beginning of your book,
the George Floyd incident, and I was right there with you.
I remember during George Floyd, during the you're watching everyone
post the Black Squares and you kind of describe how
there's the secular people, then there's Christians, but they're kind
of coming together, and it's like, oh.
Speaker 3 (21:50):
Is this a cool moment of unity?
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Maybe?
Speaker 1 (21:53):
I remember my first reaction was and I posted this
my first reaction, and I was an idiot for kind
of a knee jerk, but I was like, all people matter,
you know, And that sounds crazy now because that in
itself is it's like equivalent to a racial slur. These days,
All people matter and I do remember deleting that and
(22:16):
trying to rethink why wait, why, because I've got I
got so much hate, And it was before I even
knew that that was a thing that was just I
remember thinking, I really need to sit with this. And
I could see in your book you walking through this yourself,
kind of unpacking the implications. Is one thing led to
another as we watched it unfold. Fascinating and I love
(22:41):
that that's the way you start this book because it
takes us on a very important journey that everyone needs
to talk about, and that is our empathy of just
like a bunch of words have been hijacked, and it's
not for our good.
Speaker 3 (22:59):
You find it at the very beginning.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
You're saying, the ability to place yourself in another person's shoes,
with or without having a similar experience is typically called empathy. Okay,
there's nothing inherently wrong with that, But then you say,
empathy has been hijacked for the purpose of conforming well
intentioned people to particular political agendas. Specifically, it's been co
(23:21):
opted by the progressive wing of American society to convince
people that the progressive position is exclusively the one of
kindness and morality. This is where you call it toxic empathy.
Fascinating stuff you talk about how this you say your
(23:43):
feeling and my feeling too. No one wants to be
seen as unempathetic because a person who completely lacks empathy
may be called a narcissist, and that we're so scared
of that word, like, oh, man, I don't want to
be a narcissist, but you say it extorts a real
good desire that most people have, which is to be
and to be perceived as kind. Right, so then we
(24:07):
you unpack. But empathy and kindness are not synonymous, and
neither empathy and compassion. Kindness describes how we treat someone,
either in word or deed. Compassion means to suffer with
someone who's struggling. Both kindness and compassion are necessary components
of love, but empathy literally means to be in the
feelings of another person. Empathy, by itself is neither loving
(24:30):
nor kind It's just an emotion.
Speaker 3 (24:33):
Love, on the other.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
Hand, is a conscious choice to seek good for another person.
Speaker 3 (24:38):
That's oh, that is so important. It's so important to
be said, and.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
It's you laid it out in such a transparent way,
So thank you.
Speaker 3 (24:51):
For this book, I should say.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
Well, thank you, I appreciate that. Yeah, a lot of
people were really confused in twenty twenty, of myself included,
and there is a lot of a lot of grace
for the kind of back and forth you mentioned, posting
something then deleting it, not really knowing what the right
thing is, not knowing the whole context of like why
(25:15):
everyone was posting. A lot of people felt that way,
and it was probably only because I was kind of
plugged into the news and had watched this Black Lives
Matter movement, you know, come to the forefront that I
immediately was a little skeptical and struggled with that because
whenever I see something like a hashtag black Lives Matter,
(25:36):
I know I can't take that at face value. That
is an organization that has values that don't align with mine,
and we can get into that a little bit. More So,
when I saw that black square everyone posting it, I
knew that within that posting was the assumption that George
Floyd was murdered because of his race, and I could
not get on board with that assumption yet because I
(25:58):
did not know that no one knew that by the way,
based on the video footage that we saw, which was
very scandalous to say at the time, and when I
started trying to like push back against it and to say, look,
at least look at the other people over here who
are being damaged and hurt by the riots and by
the looting that's going on in the name of honoring
(26:19):
George Floyd. These people are also black. These people are innocent,
These people are poor. There was this horrible video that
I remember seeing of a woman who she lived in
this town, maybe it was in Kenosha, I don't remember
which town it was that ended up burning down the
stores being looted. She was like, I can't even go
get my prescription medicine right now. This is like an
(26:39):
older black lady who is just crying because her town
and where she earns her livelihood and where she gets
her necessities has been ransacked by these people who were
rioting in the name of racial justice. And when I
tried to say, look, there are other people on the
side of this moral equation that we shouldn't ignore, the
(27:00):
thing that I heard over and over again was you're
not showing empathy, you're not having empathy. And of course
what they meant was is that I'm not putting all
my empathy in the direction that they want it to.
My empathy isn't going the way that they want it
to go. I'm supposed to apparently ignore the people over here,
ignore the facts, ignore the unanswered questions, and just unconditionally
(27:22):
support a cause because that is the empathetic way. I
was even told by some Christians that right now the
truth doesn't matter because we should just show empathy. So
that's really what started, you know, getting me to think
about things like, Okay, they're using empathy as a synonym
for love, but is it really loving to lie to someone?
(27:43):
Like if someone says I think all police officers are racist,
I think America is systemically racist from the core, that
everyone who is not white is disadvantaged, that we have
endemic white privilege, that the church is inherently white supremacist,
all this stuff. Someone believes that, Is it really loving
of me to affirm it? If I know that the
(28:05):
facts don't bear that out, and if I know that
that's not even a biblical definition of justice to lump
everyone in, you know, into a guilty category because of
their lack of melanin, is it really loving for me?
And the name of empathy to say, yeah, yeah, I
know you feel that way, and you are right about that,
and I am here with you. To me, that would
be like if my daughter, you know, three years old,
(28:28):
said there's a monster in the corner of her room.
I know it's a pile of clothes, but I say,
you should be scared. That is a monster and it's
gonna come get you. That's not loving. The loving thing
for me to do would be to turn the light
on now, not rudely, not aggressively, not discounting her feelings,
but saying, I love you so much, you're protected, you're safe.
(28:51):
Look at what this really is. And I know it's
a bit more complex and layered when we're talking about
all of these you know, racial issues in the United States,
which America has had. But that was what I wrestled
with so much in that summer of twenty twenty and
why what I tried to kind of like push back against.
And that is where this like when I realized, Wow,
(29:11):
this empathy, this being in one particular side feelings, one
purported victim's feelings and ignoring everything else, really is deluding
a lot of people and messing up their perception of
truth and justice and love and goodness, and then I
saw how it manifests itself in abortion and gender in
marriage and all of these other issues too, and that
(29:33):
was kind of the basis of my book.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
It's it's fascinating because I've used that illustration similar with
my son Maverick, who's three me.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
You have.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
And when I'm talking to men that say they're they're
weak in their faith, or they've lost their faith, or
they they don't have a faith, I try to I
think of it in terms of if faith, having faith
would be to trust someone, then you could only trust
someone as far as you know them. And as God
has revealed himself through his word, we could learn to
(30:06):
trust him by learning more and more who he is
through his word. And I say, Maverick could be in
his room seeing shadows in the corner, and he could
call for me because he's scared, he's terrified. But all
I have to do is walk in there and say
I'm right here, it's okay. And he believes me because
(30:27):
he knows me, because he trusts me. And so many
times we could be scared of these these dark shadows,
and that would only be because we don't know who
is with us?
Speaker 2 (30:41):
Right?
Speaker 3 (30:41):
You took a huge step.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
I believe you took a huge step with this book
because I open it up and I'm thinking, you know,
I'm wondering how you're going to lay this out. You
open it up to the contents, and it's like, oh,
this is all it says in the contents page introduction.
Lie number one, abortion is healthcare, Lie number two, trans
(31:09):
women or women, Lie number three, Love is love, Lie
number four, No human is illegal, Line number five, social
justice is justice.
Speaker 3 (31:17):
Conclusion. That's it. That's the book.
Speaker 1 (31:20):
And I was like, oh, man, she came with a sword.
I mean, you're not messing around. It's just five lives
and you unpack each other. You knew when you I
bet when the box came to your house and you
got this. You pulled this book out for the first time.
You must have been full of joy and at the
(31:41):
same time knowing the weight of what was going to
happen when this went out, because you're coming with a sword.
How how have you felt now that it's been for
five six months since it's been out. How have you
felt with the reaction? Are you cautious about reading some
of the reviews knowing that they're coming after you.
Speaker 3 (32:04):
Are you so confident?
Speaker 2 (32:07):
Uh, let's see. I honestly, I didn't really. I didn't
think about it like that. I didn't think, oh my gosh,
this is going to make such a huge impact and
so many people are going to be mad about this.
I knew that it was a possibility that the usual
suspects would be mad. Obviously, I knew progressives would not
(32:28):
like it. I actually the parts that I thought would
be a lot more controversial haven't really, as far as
I know, landed anywhere. Like, for example, my whole chapter
about same sex so called marriage or same sex unions
and why I really think Oberga Fell was the wrong decision.
(32:49):
I thought that that would make a bigger splash. My
social justice chapter where I say some very inconvenient facts
about crime and prison in the United States. I thought
that would be the thing that kind of ruffles some feathers.
But really what made people the angriest is just the title,
(33:13):
and I was not expecting that that people even though
the subtitle explains what I'm talking about that I'm not
saying that every form of empathy is toxic and that
all manifestations of empathy are toxic. That's you know, I
address that in the very introduction, but even the subtitle
that says how progressives exploit Christian compassion, that is what
(33:38):
I'm talking about, That this is a form of empathy
that has been hijacked and manipulated. Not that all empathy
is in itself toxic, but people have taken the title
and have said, you know, David French just put an
article out in the New York Times that you know,
people like Alibeth Stucky are against empathy and they're against
(34:01):
anyone using their empathy to think through issues, and all
kinds of people who just touch that title yes and
just say, oh, you know, she doesn't have any empathy.
She's against all empathy. People shouldn't have empathy for her
because she doesn't have empathy for anyone. I'm surprised at
how much conversation and dialogue and heated debate the title alone,
(34:25):
cause I'm thankful for it. I mean, every author wants
the title of their book to become kind of like
part of the lexicon and part of the dialogue. I
wish some of the people misrepresenting it would actually read
the book, even if they disagree, Like I'm fine with
the review from someone who says I didn't like it
because of X y Z, but read it, read it
(34:46):
beyond the first two words, but a lot of the
misrepresentations just aren't truthful. To answer your question, I don't
really read the I don't read the negative reviews.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
I just don't.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
I mean, I don't think that there's any like good
re too.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
Honestly, you can't, and I don't think anybody would advise
you to it. It's not sustainable. I don't think we're
built to sit there and read random criticism from people
that we are so far disconnected with. We have no
idea who they are, where they live, or what their
worldview is.
Speaker 3 (35:20):
We have no idea. It wouldn't be healthy at all.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
It's fairly healthy to hear criticism from someone at the
grocery store in the right behind you in line, much
less someone that's in a different country that the English
is not even their first language.
Speaker 3 (35:34):
So I was going, That's where I was going.
Speaker 1 (35:36):
I was wondering, if you kind of what precautions you
put up for yourself to protect yourself.
Speaker 3 (35:42):
I actually looked.
Speaker 1 (35:44):
This morning and went through your Instagram from the last
couple of months, and I found one time that you
commented on one of your posts to someone else and
so that you could correct me if I'm wrong, But
I thought, I bet you she doesn't go back and
look and read through to protect yourself, which would be wise.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
Yes, I try not to. Now there are times when
I have, and I was way worse about that when
I first started, like when I was just posting on
a blog, and like, I just think about that time wasted.
People need to remember that your time can either be
an expense or an investment, just like your finances. You
can either just spend it and waste it, or you
can get a return on it. And all of the
(36:27):
times that I have spent reading through comments and just
getting riled up about it is wasted time. It's really,
it's not redemptive time at all. Those are not seeds
that you know I've planned that will bloom an eternity.
That is like anxiety and worry and fear wasted. And
so you're right. I don't typically do that. And it's
(36:48):
not even just for that to protect my own piece.
It's because it's hard for me to have self control
when I want to respond to people, because I want
to match their sassiness. I want to be rude back
to them. I want to insult them back, and so
it you know, I mean, it inspire sin and so
I just don't. I just try not to. But I'll
(37:09):
tell you also like a little story, and this is
all part of the apparatus of trying to protect that.
My friend the other day, I actually don't really like
love it when this happens. But I had a friend
and you know, well meaning sent me something saying like,
did you see this like podcast that these two people
did about you, talking about you misrepresenting you? And I
(37:30):
was like, no, I didn't see that. And so I
whipped at my husband and I was like, hey, did
you see this? And he was like, oh, yeah, I
listened to it yesterday. He was like I wanted to
listen to it just to see like if they said
anything or you know, if there was any like response
to you. It was fine, They're just stupid and don't
worry about it. And so that like I feel very
(37:52):
covered and like protected that. My husband is like fielding
a lot of that criticism. He's not responding to them,
but he's can out and I don't feel like if
he doesn't feel like there's a threat. That's the only
thing I'm worried about. Is there a threat to my kids?
Is there a threat to us? Is there some like
crazy lie going on out there? And I feel that
he is looking out for that, and if he's doing that,
(38:15):
then I don't need to worry about it at all.
Speaker 1 (38:18):
Yeah, amen, that's great. I do feel like Amber covers
a lot for me as well. In a similar way.
I'll see something really negative or something that's kind of
growing virally about me, and Amber will always be like, oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (38:34):
I saw it.
Speaker 1 (38:35):
I wasn't gonna say anything about it, you know, so
Cheryl catch it before I do. And then does that
ever come up in the church? Are you pastored in
that way? Do you ever have an elder coming? And
is that ever a discussion through your husband?
Speaker 2 (38:50):
Okay, well there was. I can think of a couple instances,
and maybe there's been more over the years. But when
last year, a couple of years ago, I was duly
catching a lot of heat, all these all of a sudden,
these like or it seems like all of a sudden
to me. These critics came out being like she's an
undercover feminist because she has a podcast and women shouldn't
(39:10):
be podcasting, they shouldn't be talking about cultural issues at all.
And all of a sudden, it seems like there was
just this growing group of people who I would have thought, Okay,
we're on the same team, we're both Christian conservatives, being like,
no one should listen to her simply because she's a woman.
This is a culture war. Women shouldn't be fighting battles.
And I'm like, I'm just talking. This is I mean,
(39:30):
it's a metaphor, this is not literal battle. I agree
women shouldn't be in combat, but we're talking here and so,
but that was very stressful because it wasn't just progressive
as being like, oh, she's pro life or something, because
I understand those people have a different worldview. It's people
kind of on my team and it and it went
into the personal realm of oh wow, like am I
(39:51):
good mom? Am I good wife? Am I like a
following Ephesians five? Like all of this stuff. It kind
of cut deep as someone who doesn't even believe women
should be pastors, women should preach. I don't call myself
a feminist. I'm very much a complimentarian. To have these
people who call themselves beyond complimentarian say you know, I'm
too liberal. That kind of hurt me, and I just
(40:12):
remember my pastor very like kind of subtly, but clearly
and directly. He just you know, came up to my
husband and me after the sermon one day it was like,
I just want you to know, like, sorry, I'm not
about to cry. I just got something.
Speaker 3 (40:30):
I get it.
Speaker 2 (40:35):
He just said, you know, I just want you to
know that we are with you, and we believe that
what you are doing and how y'all are organizing your
life is right and good and we support you one
hundred percent. He's also very protective of, like our privacy.
There have been times where he's been like, can I
like direct people towards your you know, towards your podcast
(40:56):
before the election and stuff, or do you want you
know to be private? But he's been very supportive. And
then when my book came out and some of the
criticism that I got from people like Russell Moore and
David French and all of that was out there, the
executive pastor also kind of had a conversation with my
husband and me after service one day and was like,
(41:18):
I read your book. I think it's brave it's good,
it's biblical. Thank you for writing it, and that like
coming from your pastors, it just means a lot. It
means a lot, and so you just feel very protected
on a variety of fronts family church, and again that
insulates you from a lot, a lot of the craziness
(41:38):
and just the exhaustion that comes with the whole news
and politics world.
Speaker 3 (41:43):
That is so encouraging to hear.
Speaker 1 (41:47):
It sounds like you have a very faithful church, and
I you know, to come full circle in this conversation,
why it is so important for everybody, not just a
famous podcaster like yourself, but for anybody to be surrounded
by wise counsel, to be under expositional teaching, to be
under a in the body of a group of believers
(42:09):
that are holding each other accountable in all the different aspects.
I mean you, you, as a member of your church,
are different than the person sitting right down the aisle.
But that's how a body is. That eye is different.
Speaker 3 (42:21):
Than the hand.
Speaker 1 (42:21):
And and so to hear that you're pastored well, to
hear that your husband is your your business manager, that
your kids travel with you, so encouraging and inspiring and
evident in the boldness and the truthfulness that you speak
with in your program and all in your social media.
(42:42):
Knowing that that's grounded on a a team of people
that love you is encouraging to know that you're in
good hands.
Speaker 2 (42:55):
Well, thank you. I appreciate that so much. And I
also all of this gives me a lot of freedom.
I think what also makes me feel bold is that
I truly feel like if at any point I was like,
I don't want to do this anymore, I don't want
to do this, then I totally could. I don't feel
any pressure from my husband or anyone to like keep going.
(43:18):
And he has always told me he wants he wants
to do this one. We love working together, we love
building things together. But he's always said, it's the love
for what I do goes beyond being willing to do
it for free, like I would pay to do it.
That's what he's always said, like he would pay to
do what you do. And he's always just wanted to
support that as much as possible. But he has always said,
(43:42):
if you don't want to do that at any point,
don't stop. We'll figure it out. And that, I mean,
there's just so much freedom in that and beauty in
that too. So yes, I'm very very grateful.
Speaker 1 (43:57):
Yeah, you're holding it with an open hand. And the
minute you start closing that fist around it, you're going
to chase things harder, You're going to dig deeper, you're
going to be try to be more controversial than you
need to be. Yeah, And so the fact that you're
holding it loosely is I believe biblical and and and
that's why I believe you're as happy as you are
(44:18):
because you just seem with all the things going on,
you could easily be jaded and depressed and you know, frazzled,
and you just you kind of just always seem level
and that's encouraging. Let me ask you, did you did
you have a radical conversion or do you Are you
one of those that just you grew up in a
Christian home and you you can't remember a time when
(44:42):
you're not you're not a Christian.
Speaker 2 (44:44):
Yeah. I would not call it a radical conversion, and
I was definitely raised in a Christian home. Very thankful
for that. I will say that there was some back tracking,
if you would even call it that. I want to
be as accurate as possible, but there was a time
in college and a little bit after and I write
about this in my first book, where I just decided
(45:05):
that I wanted to see what the party life was about.
And it was very stupid and even though you know,
some people would laugh like, oh, that's what everyone does
in college, and yeah, that's you know, what college students
should do, at least it was isolated to that. I
don't think of it like that. I don't think of
that period of time in my life when I was
twenty one twenty two and I decided to party and
(45:25):
rely on like unhealthy relationships for attention as just like
this trivial time. I see it as time wasted. I
don't beat myself up about it every day, because I'm
thankful for the grace of God and how He's redeemed
me and all of that. But what makes me sad
about it is that I knew better and I still
decided to go down that path. I ended up developing
(45:47):
an eating disorder that ended up God ended up using
that to actually like bring me back because a biblical
counselor spoke truth into my life because of that addiction
that I had. But I just I really see that
period of like just sin and rebellion in my life,
with a lot of like, with a lot of sadness,
(46:08):
a lot of gratitude for God for just being so
gracious and bringing me back and just being as forgiving
and kind as he is. But I think I think
it's good. I'm glad I feel sad about that time.
I think we should always feel sad about sin. I
think we should always feel that grief about it. And
it also has given me a lot of I hope,
(46:30):
wisdom to be able to equip my daughters for whenever,
you know, whatever they go out into the world and
whatever that looks like. It's so easy to trivialize sin
when you're young. It's not trivial. Like sin is never trivial.
It's never trivial. That's what I want to tell people.
It's ver small and so yeah, I don't know if
(46:50):
I would call that a radical conversion. But I also
can't say that it was a straight line from A
to b if a testimony, ever, is a straight line
from A to B. Yeah, And you know, God works
all things together for our good and his glory, and
even that part of my life he has and will.
But yes, there was that period of just turning my
back on things in college that i'm yeah, still sad about.
Speaker 1 (47:12):
Yeah, that's good because a small view of sin is
always a result of a small view of God and
your sans these is always a big view of God
and so on.
Speaker 3 (47:25):
Behalf of so many.
Speaker 1 (47:26):
I say thank you and I'm honored that you spent
some of your valuable time with me on the pod today.
So yeah, thank you. Great talking with you again.
Speaker 3 (47:36):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (47:36):
Yes, it was a joy to talk to you. Thank
you so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (47:39):
Of course, thanks for joining me on the Grangersmith podcast.
I appreciate all of you.
Speaker 3 (47:44):
Guys.
Speaker 1 (47:45):
You could help me out by rating this podcast on iTunes.
If you're on YouTube, subscribe to this channel, hit that
little like button and notification spell so that you never
miss anytime I upload a video. Yigi
Host
Granger Smith
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