April 5, 2022 • 27 mins
This week, Chelsea is sitting down with award winning singer, songwriter, actress, and producer Kelly Rowland. They talk about Kelly’s early inspirations and growing up as a performer, the still male dominated music industry, motherhood, writing and what’s next in terms of achieving equity - in entertainment and beyond.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, I'm Chelsea Clinton and this season on in fact,
we've been celebrating Women's History Month, and since a month
is never enough, We're keeping it going a little longer.
I'm talking with trailblazing women at the top of their
fields about their personal journeys, the progress women have made,
(00:20):
and how far we still have to go. Today, I
am thrilled to be talking about music and motherhood with
award winning singer, songwriter, actress, and producer Kelly Rowland. There's
no question women have made some inroads in the music
industry in recent decades, but the fact is it still
remains remarkably male dominated. A study of Billboard's Top one
(00:42):
hundred showed that from women made up only of artists,
of songwriters, and only three percent of producers. So what
does gender inequity feel like from inside the industry? Well,
if anyone knows, it's Kelly. Her first taste of the
business was back She was only twelve years old when
(01:03):
she and Beyonce competed as part of the group Girls
Time on the TV talent competition show Star Search. Hard
as it is to believe, they came in second, but
the group evolved into Destiny's Child which with the addition
of Michelle Williams, would go on to become one of
the best selling female groups of all time. Kelly has
won three Grammys with Dustiny's Child and another as a
(01:23):
solo artist for a collaboration with Nellie and Today she's
a platinum certified recording artist with over forty million records sold,
and she doesn't shy away from tackling serious issues in
her music, from gun violence, to beauty standards to racism.
Kelly has been a judge on The X Factor, a
coach and adviser on one of my personal favorites, The Voice,
(01:44):
and she also just served as the celebrity ambassador for
the Disney Dreamer's Academy, a four day event designed to
inspire and empower high school students. As you'll hear, becoming
a mom to sons Titan and Noah had a profound
impact on Kelly and how she views her life and
her work. She's written a guidebook for new moms called
(02:04):
whoa Baby, and her first children's book, written with Jessica McKay,
will be coming out later this month. It's called Always
with You, Always with Me, and it's a tribute to
working mothers Ketley. I'm so excited and grateful to have
the chance to talk with you about your story and
(02:27):
your thoughts on being a woman artist, a woman in
the music industry. But I thought we could maybe start
from when you were a kid and you could just share,
like what first drew you to music and did you
always want to have a life in music? From as
early as I can remember, I've always loved music. It
(02:48):
really started with another woman, which is Whitney Houston. And
I saw her singing and she was funny enough singing
in the National anthem and I just not an easy
song to sing, not an easy song to say, not
at all. But she was just electric and just so powerful,
(03:09):
and she also made it look so easy and effortless
at the same time. And it was the way she
sang every note. It was how much she was into it.
And it was the fact that when I sang in
the choir, like I just felt so alive and just
singing and music just made me feel like there was
something just racing in my body. So I just was
drawn and I've always loved it. So did you have
(03:32):
female teachers or mentors when you were growing up who
really helped translate that dream into the kind of skills
and the abilities that you would need to realize it.
As far as belief goes, it was my mother. There
was this TV show on when I was growing up
called Amen, and there was a gospel singer who sang
(03:53):
the theme song. And every time that song came on,
my Mama would say, sang Baby, Okay, let's go here,
come your song. Let's go, baby, say your song. So
it was that it was the support that I got
from her and putting those into practice and art. It
would be the choir director at a church that I
went to in Atlanta, Georgia is Ra Baptist Church. I'm
(04:17):
so sad, I can't think of her name. And then
it was my elementary school teacher, ms Ethridge. You're making
me think, girl. And it was Tina Tina knows lawson
Beyonce his mother. It was being around those other young
ladies because we were each other's peers at that time,
and we were listening and probably having energy bounced around
(04:39):
between us. So wow, she can hit that note, Well,
let me try it. You know. It was having a
lot of women, of course around me, and I feel
like we were wanting greatness from each other. It is
moving to me to hear you talk about the choir
director and the teacher, as well as your mom and
your friend's mom, because I think so often we look
(05:01):
at people who have accomplished so much and it seems inevitable,
and yet we all have been helped on our journey,
whether we've been mentored or sometimes pushed, and I think
that it's our responsibility as women to continue to push
each other. In the past, society has done the complete
(05:22):
opposite and just pushed women away from each other or
put them against each other. And I think that's the
reason why they did that, because they knew how powerful
we would be. So many of the people on the
business side of the music and entertainment industry are men,
and yet so many of our icons are are women.
(05:47):
When you were starting out, did you have a moment
where you looked around and you were like, Wow, there's
a lot of men here. Yes, yes, I did, and
it seemed like they were all just winning, and they
were all doing so much, you know, behind the scenes.
You know, I kept singing all these men in such
(06:07):
high positions like executives and such at like labels, and
I was like, where all the women where are we
we deserve that? See, you know, we we should sit there.
And when I would start seeing women come up, I
would just get so excited. I remember the first time
I met a female producer was Destiny's Child's very first
album and she was making the music in the studio
(06:31):
and that was the first time seeing female producer, and
how empowering that was. But here's the thing. She was
also pregnant. So she's making the beads and she got pregnant.
Oh my god. But it was like and we kept
just looking at her and such all because I was like,
we can do it all well, and you certainly have
done it all. Do you think the industry has gotten
(06:53):
more inclusive of women over the years or has not
much changed? It's had to, Yeah, but I will say
I'm watching it. I would like to see more of it.
It's still slow. We have to speed up the pace
of change, and I think that we do that by
supporting each other. Well, and you've collaborated with a lot
of women in your work. How important has it been
(07:15):
to you to work not only with artists with whom
you resonate, but also artists with whom you resonate who
are women. That's the number one thing for me. I
think Destiny's Child definitely made that I must to be honest,
and Beyonce and Michelle are just exceptional. But when it
(07:37):
comes to working with other women, I'm always thinking about
that first. So it's not an accident that you've worked
with like Missy Elliott or Solage or Eve exactly. They're amazing,
they're women, they're talented. How do we make space for
the next artists to come through, or the next like
author to come through, the next whoever to come through.
But it's seeing them and all of their greatness and
(07:59):
wanting to be a part of that, wanting to feel
what that magic feels like together, because it is magical.
There are some people who think art should never be
political or should never be serious, and you've tackled a
lot of issues in your music that are serious and
(08:21):
affect millions of people in our country, whether depression or bullying,
gun violence. Why is it important to you that your
music not shy away from those quote unquote more serious
issues because it wouldn't be human. I feel like it
(08:43):
should all be tangible, it should all be stories. You
should be as honest and authentic as you can possibly be.
And those are real stories that you tell that you
should be telling. And if you're thinking those thoughts and
your feelings, certain things in your heart and your soul
and it's just things that you feel like you have
(09:04):
to get out. That means that somebody else is thinking
the same thing or going through the same thing. And
how do we evolve and become better if we're not
sharing our stories in a way that is a song,
a way that is poetry, a way that is a movie,
a way that is a podcast. You know what I mean,
Like it's a must. You know, you have shared stories
(09:25):
in so many different media, I mean music, but also
on screen and through books. Right in your book whoa Baby,
which definitely was, like you very much about about being
a mom. So I'm curious, when you became a mom,
why was it important to you to write a book
that was geared towards other moms, Like what stories were
really important for you to share and for you to
(09:46):
bring out into the world. So when I became a mom,
everything changed, My life genuinely changed. And with whoa Baby,
I remember reading what to Expect when expecting, and I
was steady exactly and I remember being so ready for everything,
(10:06):
but it was what happened afterwards I wasn't ready for.
I was like, wait, where is that book? I need
to know what is happening? Is there a book on this?
What's going on in a girlfriend? I was like, Oh,
there's no book about that, And so I said, let's
go and literally wrote the book and asked my o
b Jan, asked a stylist, girlfriend, a nutritionist. I asked
(10:29):
all these people about what happens, and I talked about
my own story and I just felt like it had
to be honest. And then when it came to being
a working mom and moving and going place to place
all the time and having to leave the kids and
those emotions where I was like, I'm to write another one.
(10:49):
And I met another woman, Jessica McKay, who actually was like, Yo,
I have this really cool book idea. And Jessica and
I started talking and next and we knew this book
just started to build a life of its own, and
it just started to talk about all the things that
I wanted time to understand and even gave me emotions
(11:10):
that I was understanding and missing him because I think
that sometimes kids think that they're the only ones in
the position of like, I really want to be next
to you, I miss you. I'm I'm feeling the same way.
So with the book, of course, it is always with you,
always with me, and it's all about that. Yeah. I
(11:30):
feel that so deeply when I'm away and my children
look at me through FaceTime and they're like, where are you, Mama,
Like why aren't you here? And I'm like, oh my gosh,
I want to be there, but I'm like, don't cry,
don't cry. That's the exactly exactly. I never well, you know,
he has seen me cry once. He has seen me
(11:53):
cry over my mother because my mother is no longer
here on earth. But I've said, oh I miss her,
and he says Grandma. I was like yeah. And then
one time, because I've told him this before, he said
she's always with you and she's always with me to Mama,
and I said, okay, beautiful, yeah, really beautiful. I know.
(12:13):
I think it's such a balance, right as mother's showing
that honest vulnerability and yet also still trying to protect them.
Absolutely absolutely. I am curious. How has it been being
a working mom and have you been able to do
the work all the work you feel called to do?
Want to do, want to create in the world and
(12:35):
be a mom. And has the music and entertainment industry
supported that because historically a lot of industries haven't been
particularly good for pregnant women or especially new moms. Yeah, well,
I think that the industry is continuing to evolve because
everybody's having bases, especially during COVID. You know, Cardi bies
(12:57):
like I'm pregnant. I'm like, I'm pregnant now, Rihanna, I'm pregnant.
You have no choice but to get used to it,
which is what I love. And I remember before I
had tied in, I was scared to have a baby
because people were like, once you have a baby, your
career is over. Why would you tell a one and that,
like why would you say your sensuality is gone? And
(13:19):
I have sixty years Like like what are you talking about? Exactly?
And I'm still flying. Don't you ever get a twisted?
That's literally what I want to tell them. I want
to put my finger in the face if they don't
you ever get it twisted? Like I'm always fly Like
So I think that society has done that. But here
we are tug tug tug and forward, like get on
(13:41):
or get off. You're either gonna get on the train
or get off, because we're gonna be fly, we're gonna
be great, we're gonna have babies, and we're going to
continue on thankfully. As you mentioned, it's not just any
one woman artist, right. There are lots of women stepping
forward being honest about their truthful selves that being a
mother or something they want to become. And I do
(14:02):
think it's probably easier that it's not just one woman
having to do that. There's a lot of really powerful
women in the industry, which hopefully then helps less powerful
women make the choices that are right for them too, absolutely,
because some women will shy away from it. I know,
like I did. I waited till I was thirty three
to have my first kid, but I was thinking about
it at But I know some of that was the
(14:26):
fear of all of these things being taken away. And
I'm just like, I'm so happy I did this, and
I'm mad that I didn't do it earlier. I was like,
I want to have one more. We'll be right back,
stay with us. What are the most common questions that
(14:56):
young women asking. What's the most kind of common or
what do you think the best advice you can give
as someone at the top of your industry to young
women looking up for whom You're there, Whitney right there,
like I want to be you when I grew up,
And what do you say? The questions I'd say I'm
asked often are always about practicing, getting better, evolving, which
(15:24):
is great because I remember coming up, we were practicing
all time, literally morning, noon, and night. We were practicing.
So I have always loved music, and I have always
never had real talent, but thankfully was blessed with lots
of persistence. So I have these vivid memories of like
(15:45):
being in the church choir and you know, being told
to like not project so much like I like then
the church WI like matters, saying to my parents, like you,
we really appreciate j'lsey. She comes on time. She's very sunctual.
It's like they had to say, it's something nice about me,
(16:07):
and I had like no doull it. And you clearly
were given like the gift from God have so much talent,
but you have nurtured it and you have practiced, and
you have worked really hard, and I am curious how
has that practice changed over time? I'll say It evolved
when the girls and I were eleven and twelve practicing
and rehearsing for Star Search. We would practice as often
(16:30):
as we could because we were in between school, and
then when we got a record deal, the practice was
turned up to another gear to where it was not
just movement, it was flexibility. It was agility with the
voice and like trying to stretch our range. When we
became signed and we were getting ready for performances, we
(16:51):
were rehearsing for like ten and twelve hours a day.
Then from there it was okay, we're getting ready for tour,
and tour was a whole another animal. As my mother
would say, like I'll never forget the very last tour
with Destiny's Child. We would rehearse like crazy. Then we
would perform that evening, but we would get the video
(17:12):
tapes back of the performance so that we could perfect it.
We would look at it because we saw the way
athletes would look at their plays every game, so we
were treating it the way athletes would and check out everything. Well,
the lightning queue is wrong here, Oh well this dancer
got this wrong. And the funny thing is is be
was actually like so particular about it to where I
(17:34):
soaked that up from her because she was so meticulous
about it. So when it came to my solo project,
I was so nervous, to be honest, I felt like
I wasn't really ready, even though you'd already been a
professional musician or just for years. I know, but it
was just the idea of doing it alone and scared
the crap out of me, to be honest. So then
(17:58):
I rehearsed, but it it was just different with the girls,
and I still loved it. And the more comfortable I
got being by myself, the harder I worked in rehearsals.
Maybe because you knew the hard work was what was
giving you the comfort and giving you the confidence. You're like,
oh I need more of that, yes, And it was
like the freedom and the performance was from the rehearsals,
(18:20):
if that makes any sense, totally, it makes total sense
to me. So you still practice, right, Oh absolutely, That's
really powerful for people to hear too. It's not like
you reach a certain level of achievement and you're like, oh,
I'm done, I can like coast. You're like, no, you
have to keep practicing. No, you still gotta practice because
it's an instrument. It's a muscle. You still have to
use it, you still have to get it better. If
(18:41):
it's not being used, it gets weaker. So voice lessons
definitely help at least once or twice a week. Just
makes you better and more like an athlete. You can
move and have more agility. So I'd say, never stop
practicing and never think that you know at all. You
should be an open book every single a gift to
always be humble and always be a student. And the
(19:04):
one that I always get is do you feel like
you've done it all? You know it all? And I'm like,
far from it. I'm learning something new every day. I
think that some of the most successful people are the
most curious and the most humble. Yeah. Do you sing
for your son? Does he give you feedback? Oh? Yes,
I have my kids read my books and sometimes I'm like,
(19:25):
oh that was harsh, but thank you, Like I'll make
that at it. Yeah, all right, So with always with you,
always with me. Titan was like, Okay, can you get
to that part quicker, mom, It's just faster, And so
I would come back to the edit with Jessica and
(19:45):
Rhoda and they were like I said, Titan said, this
party is a little long, and they're like, okay, then
let's make it shorter. So see you just wanted to
hear I called it the course. I was like, it's
the course of the book. We have to get there faster.
They're like, okay, okay, got it. One of the things
I now think a lot about as a parent are
the different images that you know, our children are just
(20:07):
assailed by around like what is the perfect girl or
the perfect boy? Or this is what the perfect woman
looks like or the perfect you know man looks like.
And I know you've really focused in some of your
music on exploring the pressures that particularly young girls and
young women face about looking a certain way or a
(20:29):
certain standard of beauty. What more would you like to
see from your industry, from other artists in that conversation,
And how does being a mom make you feel about
continuing that work? Is it more important now? Man? Chelsea?
Let me tell you I wanted to be less filtered because,
(20:52):
like you said, there is no such thing as perfect.
I think that we can awe strap a greatness, but
even in greatness something things don't turn out perfect, but
they turn out the way that they're supposed to be.
And you learn your lesson either way. I want to
keep talking about authenticity and being as honest as you
can in the moment, because I feel like there's some
(21:15):
things like whether it's played up in music or in
pictures or in videos. I'm like, no, that doesn't really
feel like that, or nor that doesn't really look like that,
or you know what I mean. Like even my son
Titan has this thing where he's like, Hi, welcome to
my YouTube chat and I'm like, no, man, you don't
(21:35):
need He's seven. He's seven, Chelsea, he's seven, And I'm like,
we're taking a quick break. Stay with us. I just
(22:01):
want to give you the chance to share anything you
may want to share about your recent trip to Disney
and the Disney Dreamers Academy and mentoring kids outside of
music too, in the broader steam world or even the
more specific stem science technology, you know, engineering a math,
because I think so often people think like, oh, I'm
at the pinnacle of business or publishing or teaching, but
(22:24):
I can only do this one thing. And you're using
your experience and all that you've learned to help mentor
people who have different dreams than being Whitney Houston or
Kelly Rowland when they grow up. Well, first off, the
Disney Dreamers Academy. I could not stop crying that whole
weekend because I watched young people have an idea of
(22:48):
how they saw themselves in the future. And just the
start of a dream is a blessing, you know what,
I mean, To even see yourself there, to even write
it down, to even be excited about it and work
towards that is a big deal. So just to listen
to all of their stories as I talked to so
many young people while I was there, and it was
(23:09):
I want to be this type of engineer, and I
actually want to be this type of teacher and change
the lives of students by doing this. I want to
redesign this building like it was so many different occupational
ideas like in background and where they wanted to be
in the future, and how they wanted to change the
world and why they were going to change the world.
(23:32):
It was already in their brain and they were already
putting it out there for them to do so, so
seeing that it was being reminded not to ever stop dreaming.
One last question we're asking everyone during Women's History Month.
Is there one statistic or fact or story about women
(23:53):
in entertainment broadly or music specifically, that maybe you're thinking
about this Women's History Month. I'm still thinking about how
we continue to come together to show up for this
new generation. The way this new generation I know is
going to show up for us. I think that it
has to be reciprocated because I'm watching them say what
(24:16):
they're not going to take from, whether it's a government
or wherever they are using their power. They're using their
voices and they're speaking up, and we have to be
there to support them in that space because I think that,
like I said, the world is continuing to evolve, and
(24:37):
we have to make the space for their voices to
become even louder and to become even more powerful. So
to me, it's making sure that we are speaking up
for them, and then speaking up for them, we're also
speaking up for ourselves because they're going to be fighting
for us when we don't have the energy later to
fight the way we would like to fight when we
(24:58):
were younger. I mean, I can't to imagine you're not
having energy. Oh no, you seem to do everything. I
will have the energy. I will be right there, like
a woman who inspires me is Jane Fonda, Like I
love She's amazing. She's amazing, She's a powerhouse. I spoke
to her last year for my podcast because I just
(25:21):
she's amazing, Like she never stops. She sees like every
new challenge is just an opportunity to do more and
be more, and also to support young people especially. I
mean she's really trying to create and in the best
sense leave space for young people. She is and the
(25:43):
same of course with Stacey Abrams. I remember sitting and
having a space to speak with Stacey Abrams and so
many things that she wanted to tackle, and I'm like,
how how are we going to support all of this? Like,
I'm you ever read her romance books? No, she started
as a romance novelist. I mean she also like went
(26:04):
to your law school, but and like a young lawyer activist,
she wrote romance novels. Oh I have to read these
ro miss novels. I mean, you're kind of like, oh
my gosh that it's really like Okay, Chelsea, you known
hides me up for real now, But like another woman
who certainly has has done more than any I think
(26:25):
one person would be thought capable of and you certainly
are similarly amazing not perfect be Cau. We talked about
how no one's perfect, but always being in the pursuit
of excellence certainly creates a lot of excellence to go around.
So just thank you for all you're doing and thank
you for your time today. Well, thank you. I feel
the same and I'm so delighted to talk to you.
(26:48):
You can find Kelly Rowland on social media at Kelly Rowland.
Her new children's book, Always with You, Always with Me,
will be out on April. In Fact is brought to
you by I Heart Radio. We are produced by a
mighty group of women and one amazing man, Erica Goodmanson,
Mart Harror, Sarah Horrowitz, Jessmine Molly, and Justin Wright, with
(27:11):
help from Lindsay Hoffman, Barry Lurie, Joyce Kuban, Julie Subran,
Mike Taylor, and Emily Young. Original music is by Justin Right.
If you like this episode of In Fact, please make
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review on Apple Podcasts.
Hi, I'm Chelsea Clinton and this season on in fact,
we've been celebrating Women's History Month, and since a month
is never enough, We're keeping it going a little longer.
I'm talking with trailblazing women at the top of their
fields about their personal journeys, the progress women have made,
(00:20):
and how far we still have to go. Today, I
am thrilled to be talking about music and motherhood with
award winning singer, songwriter, actress, and producer Kelly Rowland. There's
no question women have made some inroads in the music
industry in recent decades, but the fact is it still
remains remarkably male dominated. A study of Billboard's Top one
(00:42):
hundred showed that from women made up only of artists,
of songwriters, and only three percent of producers. So what
does gender inequity feel like from inside the industry? Well,
if anyone knows, it's Kelly. Her first taste of the
business was back She was only twelve years old when
(01:03):
she and Beyonce competed as part of the group Girls
Time on the TV talent competition show Star Search. Hard
as it is to believe, they came in second, but
the group evolved into Destiny's Child which with the addition
of Michelle Williams, would go on to become one of
the best selling female groups of all time. Kelly has
won three Grammys with Dustiny's Child and another as a
(01:23):
solo artist for a collaboration with Nellie and Today she's
a platinum certified recording artist with over forty million records sold,
and she doesn't shy away from tackling serious issues in
her music, from gun violence, to beauty standards to racism.
Kelly has been a judge on The X Factor, a
coach and adviser on one of my personal favorites, The Voice,
(01:44):
and she also just served as the celebrity ambassador for
the Disney Dreamer's Academy, a four day event designed to
inspire and empower high school students. As you'll hear, becoming
a mom to sons Titan and Noah had a profound
impact on Kelly and how she views her life and
her work. She's written a guidebook for new moms called
(02:04):
whoa Baby, and her first children's book, written with Jessica McKay,
will be coming out later this month. It's called Always
with You, Always with Me, and it's a tribute to
working mothers Ketley. I'm so excited and grateful to have
the chance to talk with you about your story and
(02:27):
your thoughts on being a woman artist, a woman in
the music industry. But I thought we could maybe start
from when you were a kid and you could just share,
like what first drew you to music and did you
always want to have a life in music? From as
early as I can remember, I've always loved music. It
(02:48):
really started with another woman, which is Whitney Houston. And
I saw her singing and she was funny enough singing
in the National anthem and I just not an easy
song to sing, not an easy song to say, not
at all. But she was just electric and just so powerful,
(03:09):
and she also made it look so easy and effortless
at the same time. And it was the way she
sang every note. It was how much she was into it.
And it was the fact that when I sang in
the choir, like I just felt so alive and just
singing and music just made me feel like there was
something just racing in my body. So I just was
drawn and I've always loved it. So did you have
(03:32):
female teachers or mentors when you were growing up who
really helped translate that dream into the kind of skills
and the abilities that you would need to realize it.
As far as belief goes, it was my mother. There
was this TV show on when I was growing up
called Amen, and there was a gospel singer who sang
(03:53):
the theme song. And every time that song came on,
my Mama would say, sang Baby, Okay, let's go here,
come your song. Let's go, baby, say your song. So
it was that it was the support that I got
from her and putting those into practice and art. It
would be the choir director at a church that I
went to in Atlanta, Georgia is Ra Baptist Church. I'm
(04:17):
so sad, I can't think of her name. And then
it was my elementary school teacher, ms Ethridge. You're making
me think, girl. And it was Tina Tina knows lawson
Beyonce his mother. It was being around those other young
ladies because we were each other's peers at that time,
and we were listening and probably having energy bounced around
(04:39):
between us. So wow, she can hit that note, Well,
let me try it. You know. It was having a
lot of women, of course around me, and I feel
like we were wanting greatness from each other. It is
moving to me to hear you talk about the choir
director and the teacher, as well as your mom and
your friend's mom, because I think so often we look
(05:01):
at people who have accomplished so much and it seems inevitable,
and yet we all have been helped on our journey,
whether we've been mentored or sometimes pushed, and I think
that it's our responsibility as women to continue to push
each other. In the past, society has done the complete
(05:22):
opposite and just pushed women away from each other or
put them against each other. And I think that's the
reason why they did that, because they knew how powerful
we would be. So many of the people on the
business side of the music and entertainment industry are men,
and yet so many of our icons are are women.
(05:47):
When you were starting out, did you have a moment
where you looked around and you were like, Wow, there's
a lot of men here. Yes, yes, I did, and
it seemed like they were all just winning, and they
were all doing so much, you know, behind the scenes.
You know, I kept singing all these men in such
(06:07):
high positions like executives and such at like labels, and
I was like, where all the women where are we
we deserve that? See, you know, we we should sit there.
And when I would start seeing women come up, I
would just get so excited. I remember the first time
I met a female producer was Destiny's Child's very first
album and she was making the music in the studio
(06:31):
and that was the first time seeing female producer, and
how empowering that was. But here's the thing. She was
also pregnant. So she's making the beads and she got pregnant.
Oh my god. But it was like and we kept
just looking at her and such all because I was like,
we can do it all well, and you certainly have
done it all. Do you think the industry has gotten
(06:53):
more inclusive of women over the years or has not
much changed? It's had to, Yeah, but I will say
I'm watching it. I would like to see more of it.
It's still slow. We have to speed up the pace
of change, and I think that we do that by
supporting each other. Well, and you've collaborated with a lot
of women in your work. How important has it been
(07:15):
to you to work not only with artists with whom
you resonate, but also artists with whom you resonate who
are women. That's the number one thing for me. I
think Destiny's Child definitely made that I must to be honest,
and Beyonce and Michelle are just exceptional. But when it
(07:37):
comes to working with other women, I'm always thinking about
that first. So it's not an accident that you've worked
with like Missy Elliott or Solage or Eve exactly. They're amazing,
they're women, they're talented. How do we make space for
the next artists to come through, or the next like
author to come through, the next whoever to come through.
But it's seeing them and all of their greatness and
(07:59):
wanting to be a part of that, wanting to feel
what that magic feels like together, because it is magical.
There are some people who think art should never be
political or should never be serious, and you've tackled a
lot of issues in your music that are serious and
(08:21):
affect millions of people in our country, whether depression or bullying,
gun violence. Why is it important to you that your
music not shy away from those quote unquote more serious
issues because it wouldn't be human. I feel like it
(08:43):
should all be tangible, it should all be stories. You
should be as honest and authentic as you can possibly be.
And those are real stories that you tell that you
should be telling. And if you're thinking those thoughts and
your feelings, certain things in your heart and your soul
and it's just things that you feel like you have
(09:04):
to get out. That means that somebody else is thinking
the same thing or going through the same thing. And
how do we evolve and become better if we're not
sharing our stories in a way that is a song,
a way that is poetry, a way that is a movie,
a way that is a podcast. You know what I mean,
Like it's a must. You know, you have shared stories
(09:25):
in so many different media, I mean music, but also
on screen and through books. Right in your book whoa Baby,
which definitely was, like you very much about about being
a mom. So I'm curious, when you became a mom,
why was it important to you to write a book
that was geared towards other moms, Like what stories were
really important for you to share and for you to
(09:46):
bring out into the world. So when I became a mom,
everything changed, My life genuinely changed. And with whoa Baby,
I remember reading what to Expect when expecting, and I
was steady exactly and I remember being so ready for everything,
(10:06):
but it was what happened afterwards I wasn't ready for.
I was like, wait, where is that book? I need
to know what is happening? Is there a book on this?
What's going on in a girlfriend? I was like, Oh,
there's no book about that, And so I said, let's
go and literally wrote the book and asked my o
b Jan, asked a stylist, girlfriend, a nutritionist. I asked
(10:29):
all these people about what happens, and I talked about
my own story and I just felt like it had
to be honest. And then when it came to being
a working mom and moving and going place to place
all the time and having to leave the kids and
those emotions where I was like, I'm to write another one.
(10:49):
And I met another woman, Jessica McKay, who actually was like, Yo,
I have this really cool book idea. And Jessica and
I started talking and next and we knew this book
just started to build a life of its own, and
it just started to talk about all the things that
I wanted time to understand and even gave me emotions
(11:10):
that I was understanding and missing him because I think
that sometimes kids think that they're the only ones in
the position of like, I really want to be next
to you, I miss you. I'm I'm feeling the same way.
So with the book, of course, it is always with you,
always with me, and it's all about that. Yeah. I
(11:30):
feel that so deeply when I'm away and my children
look at me through FaceTime and they're like, where are you, Mama,
Like why aren't you here? And I'm like, oh my gosh,
I want to be there, but I'm like, don't cry,
don't cry. That's the exactly exactly. I never well, you know,
he has seen me cry once. He has seen me
(11:53):
cry over my mother because my mother is no longer
here on earth. But I've said, oh I miss her,
and he says Grandma. I was like yeah. And then
one time, because I've told him this before, he said
she's always with you and she's always with me to Mama,
and I said, okay, beautiful, yeah, really beautiful. I know.
(12:13):
I think it's such a balance, right as mother's showing
that honest vulnerability and yet also still trying to protect them.
Absolutely absolutely. I am curious. How has it been being
a working mom and have you been able to do
the work all the work you feel called to do?
Want to do, want to create in the world and
(12:35):
be a mom. And has the music and entertainment industry
supported that because historically a lot of industries haven't been
particularly good for pregnant women or especially new moms. Yeah, well,
I think that the industry is continuing to evolve because
everybody's having bases, especially during COVID. You know, Cardi bies
(12:57):
like I'm pregnant. I'm like, I'm pregnant now, Rihanna, I'm pregnant.
You have no choice but to get used to it,
which is what I love. And I remember before I
had tied in, I was scared to have a baby
because people were like, once you have a baby, your
career is over. Why would you tell a one and that,
like why would you say your sensuality is gone? And
(13:19):
I have sixty years Like like what are you talking about? Exactly?
And I'm still flying. Don't you ever get a twisted?
That's literally what I want to tell them. I want
to put my finger in the face if they don't
you ever get it twisted? Like I'm always fly Like
So I think that society has done that. But here
we are tug tug tug and forward, like get on
(13:41):
or get off. You're either gonna get on the train
or get off, because we're gonna be fly, we're gonna
be great, we're gonna have babies, and we're going to
continue on thankfully. As you mentioned, it's not just any
one woman artist, right. There are lots of women stepping
forward being honest about their truthful selves that being a
mother or something they want to become. And I do
(14:02):
think it's probably easier that it's not just one woman
having to do that. There's a lot of really powerful
women in the industry, which hopefully then helps less powerful
women make the choices that are right for them too, absolutely,
because some women will shy away from it. I know,
like I did. I waited till I was thirty three
to have my first kid, but I was thinking about
it at But I know some of that was the
(14:26):
fear of all of these things being taken away. And
I'm just like, I'm so happy I did this, and
I'm mad that I didn't do it earlier. I was like,
I want to have one more. We'll be right back,
stay with us. What are the most common questions that
(14:56):
young women asking. What's the most kind of common or
what do you think the best advice you can give
as someone at the top of your industry to young
women looking up for whom You're there, Whitney right there,
like I want to be you when I grew up,
And what do you say? The questions I'd say I'm
asked often are always about practicing, getting better, evolving, which
(15:24):
is great because I remember coming up, we were practicing
all time, literally morning, noon, and night. We were practicing.
So I have always loved music, and I have always
never had real talent, but thankfully was blessed with lots
of persistence. So I have these vivid memories of like
(15:45):
being in the church choir and you know, being told
to like not project so much like I like then
the church WI like matters, saying to my parents, like you,
we really appreciate j'lsey. She comes on time. She's very sunctual.
It's like they had to say, it's something nice about me,
(16:07):
and I had like no doull it. And you clearly
were given like the gift from God have so much talent,
but you have nurtured it and you have practiced, and
you have worked really hard, and I am curious how
has that practice changed over time? I'll say It evolved
when the girls and I were eleven and twelve practicing
and rehearsing for Star Search. We would practice as often
(16:30):
as we could because we were in between school, and
then when we got a record deal, the practice was
turned up to another gear to where it was not
just movement, it was flexibility. It was agility with the
voice and like trying to stretch our range. When we
became signed and we were getting ready for performances, we
(16:51):
were rehearsing for like ten and twelve hours a day.
Then from there it was okay, we're getting ready for tour,
and tour was a whole another animal. As my mother
would say, like I'll never forget the very last tour
with Destiny's Child. We would rehearse like crazy. Then we
would perform that evening, but we would get the video
(17:12):
tapes back of the performance so that we could perfect it.
We would look at it because we saw the way
athletes would look at their plays every game, so we
were treating it the way athletes would and check out everything. Well,
the lightning queue is wrong here, Oh well this dancer
got this wrong. And the funny thing is is be
was actually like so particular about it to where I
(17:34):
soaked that up from her because she was so meticulous
about it. So when it came to my solo project,
I was so nervous, to be honest, I felt like
I wasn't really ready, even though you'd already been a
professional musician or just for years. I know, but it
was just the idea of doing it alone and scared
the crap out of me, to be honest. So then
(17:58):
I rehearsed, but it it was just different with the girls,
and I still loved it. And the more comfortable I
got being by myself, the harder I worked in rehearsals.
Maybe because you knew the hard work was what was
giving you the comfort and giving you the confidence. You're like,
oh I need more of that, yes, And it was
like the freedom and the performance was from the rehearsals,
(18:20):
if that makes any sense, totally, it makes total sense
to me. So you still practice, right, Oh absolutely, That's
really powerful for people to hear too. It's not like
you reach a certain level of achievement and you're like, oh,
I'm done, I can like coast. You're like, no, you
have to keep practicing. No, you still gotta practice because
it's an instrument. It's a muscle. You still have to
use it, you still have to get it better. If
(18:41):
it's not being used, it gets weaker. So voice lessons
definitely help at least once or twice a week. Just
makes you better and more like an athlete. You can
move and have more agility. So I'd say, never stop
practicing and never think that you know at all. You
should be an open book every single a gift to
always be humble and always be a student. And the
(19:04):
one that I always get is do you feel like
you've done it all? You know it all? And I'm like,
far from it. I'm learning something new every day. I
think that some of the most successful people are the
most curious and the most humble. Yeah. Do you sing
for your son? Does he give you feedback? Oh? Yes,
I have my kids read my books and sometimes I'm like,
(19:25):
oh that was harsh, but thank you, Like I'll make
that at it. Yeah, all right, So with always with you,
always with me. Titan was like, Okay, can you get
to that part quicker, mom, It's just faster, And so
I would come back to the edit with Jessica and
(19:45):
Rhoda and they were like I said, Titan said, this
party is a little long, and they're like, okay, then
let's make it shorter. So see you just wanted to
hear I called it the course. I was like, it's
the course of the book. We have to get there faster.
They're like, okay, okay, got it. One of the things
I now think a lot about as a parent are
the different images that you know, our children are just
(20:07):
assailed by around like what is the perfect girl or
the perfect boy? Or this is what the perfect woman
looks like or the perfect you know man looks like.
And I know you've really focused in some of your
music on exploring the pressures that particularly young girls and
young women face about looking a certain way or a
(20:29):
certain standard of beauty. What more would you like to
see from your industry, from other artists in that conversation,
And how does being a mom make you feel about
continuing that work? Is it more important now? Man? Chelsea?
Let me tell you I wanted to be less filtered because,
(20:52):
like you said, there is no such thing as perfect.
I think that we can awe strap a greatness, but
even in greatness something things don't turn out perfect, but
they turn out the way that they're supposed to be.
And you learn your lesson either way. I want to
keep talking about authenticity and being as honest as you
can in the moment, because I feel like there's some
(21:15):
things like whether it's played up in music or in
pictures or in videos. I'm like, no, that doesn't really
feel like that, or nor that doesn't really look like that,
or you know what I mean. Like even my son
Titan has this thing where he's like, Hi, welcome to
my YouTube chat and I'm like, no, man, you don't
(21:35):
need He's seven. He's seven, Chelsea, he's seven, And I'm like,
we're taking a quick break. Stay with us. I just
(22:01):
want to give you the chance to share anything you
may want to share about your recent trip to Disney
and the Disney Dreamers Academy and mentoring kids outside of
music too, in the broader steam world or even the
more specific stem science technology, you know, engineering a math,
because I think so often people think like, oh, I'm
at the pinnacle of business or publishing or teaching, but
(22:24):
I can only do this one thing. And you're using
your experience and all that you've learned to help mentor
people who have different dreams than being Whitney Houston or
Kelly Rowland when they grow up. Well, first off, the
Disney Dreamers Academy. I could not stop crying that whole
weekend because I watched young people have an idea of
(22:48):
how they saw themselves in the future. And just the
start of a dream is a blessing, you know what,
I mean, To even see yourself there, to even write
it down, to even be excited about it and work
towards that is a big deal. So just to listen
to all of their stories as I talked to so
many young people while I was there, and it was
(23:09):
I want to be this type of engineer, and I
actually want to be this type of teacher and change
the lives of students by doing this. I want to
redesign this building like it was so many different occupational
ideas like in background and where they wanted to be
in the future, and how they wanted to change the
world and why they were going to change the world.
(23:32):
It was already in their brain and they were already
putting it out there for them to do so, so
seeing that it was being reminded not to ever stop dreaming.
One last question we're asking everyone during Women's History Month.
Is there one statistic or fact or story about women
(23:53):
in entertainment broadly or music specifically, that maybe you're thinking
about this Women's History Month. I'm still thinking about how
we continue to come together to show up for this
new generation. The way this new generation I know is
going to show up for us. I think that it
has to be reciprocated because I'm watching them say what
(24:16):
they're not going to take from, whether it's a government
or wherever they are using their power. They're using their
voices and they're speaking up, and we have to be
there to support them in that space because I think that,
like I said, the world is continuing to evolve, and
(24:37):
we have to make the space for their voices to
become even louder and to become even more powerful. So
to me, it's making sure that we are speaking up
for them, and then speaking up for them, we're also
speaking up for ourselves because they're going to be fighting
for us when we don't have the energy later to
fight the way we would like to fight when we
(24:58):
were younger. I mean, I can't to imagine you're not
having energy. Oh no, you seem to do everything. I
will have the energy. I will be right there, like
a woman who inspires me is Jane Fonda, Like I
love She's amazing. She's amazing, She's a powerhouse. I spoke
to her last year for my podcast because I just
(25:21):
she's amazing, Like she never stops. She sees like every
new challenge is just an opportunity to do more and
be more, and also to support young people especially. I
mean she's really trying to create and in the best
sense leave space for young people. She is and the
(25:43):
same of course with Stacey Abrams. I remember sitting and
having a space to speak with Stacey Abrams and so
many things that she wanted to tackle, and I'm like,
how how are we going to support all of this? Like,
I'm you ever read her romance books? No, she started
as a romance novelist. I mean she also like went
(26:04):
to your law school, but and like a young lawyer activist,
she wrote romance novels. Oh I have to read these
ro miss novels. I mean, you're kind of like, oh
my gosh that it's really like Okay, Chelsea, you known
hides me up for real now, But like another woman
who certainly has has done more than any I think
(26:25):
one person would be thought capable of and you certainly
are similarly amazing not perfect be Cau. We talked about
how no one's perfect, but always being in the pursuit
of excellence certainly creates a lot of excellence to go around.
So just thank you for all you're doing and thank
you for your time today. Well, thank you. I feel
the same and I'm so delighted to talk to you.
(26:48):
You can find Kelly Rowland on social media at Kelly Rowland.
Her new children's book, Always with You, Always with Me,
will be out on April. In Fact is brought to
you by I Heart Radio. We are produced by a
mighty group of women and one amazing man, Erica Goodmanson,
Mart Harror, Sarah Horrowitz, Jessmine Molly, and Justin Wright, with
(27:11):
help from Lindsay Hoffman, Barry Lurie, Joyce Kuban, Julie Subran,
Mike Taylor, and Emily Young. Original music is by Justin Right.
If you like this episode of In Fact, please make
sure to subscribe so you never miss an episode, and
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