March 22, 2022 • 29 mins
This week, Chelsea is sitting down with veteran White House correspondent April Ryan – the longest-serving Black woman in the White House press corps. They discuss the journalists who came before her, the progress we’ve made (and where we have not), and what needs to happen next to achieve equality for women in this industry and beyond.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, I'm Chelsea Clinton, and this season on in fact,
we're celebrating Women's History Month. I'll be talking with trailblazing
women at the top of their fields about their personal journeys,
the progress women have fade, and how far we still
have to go today. I am very excited to be
(00:22):
discussing women in journalism with April Ryan, the longest serving
Black woman in the White House Press Corps. April grew
up in Baltimore and got her start and broadcasting at
Morgan State University, an HBCU that is Maryland's largest historically
black university. Now with twenty five years and counting in
the White House Press Corps, April told me she stands
on the shoulders of the mighty journalists who came before her.
(00:46):
Alice Dunnigan and Ethel Payne were the first black women
to receive White House Press credentials, Dunigan in and Pain
shortly thereafter. These women spoke truth to power during the
Civil Rights Movement and suffered terrible indignities. Dunningan was banned
from covering a speech by President Eisenhower because it was
held in a whites only theater and to cover an
Ohio senator's funeral, she was forced to sit in segregated
(01:09):
seating away from the other journalists. And while that may
sound outrageous to us now, in some ways little has changed.
When Eisenhower became annoyed with Ethel Payne over a question
she asked about integration, he refused to call on her
for the rest of his presidency, and he had his
press secretary tried to take away her White House credentials.
Sound familiar. More than fifty years later, and two decades
(01:32):
into her career as a White House correspondent, April Ryan
faced a similar response from President Trump. Annoyed by the
questions she was asking, President refused to answer, told April
to sit down, and called her names like nasty and
a loser. He also implied he would take away her
press credentials. April Lynne began receiving death threats on social
(01:52):
media and through the mail. She even had to move
her family and hire a bodyguard for their safety. Despite
all of this, and Alice down again and Ethel pain
before her, April refused to be intimidated, inspiring a new
generation in the process. In April was named Journalist of
the Year for the National Association of Black journalists, and
(02:13):
after twenty three years of American urban radio networks, she
is now the White House correspondent and Washington, d C.
Bureau chief for The Grio. April Ryan, thank you so
much for joining me today. I'm really excited for our conversation.
(02:33):
And I wondered if we could start at the beginning.
What drew you to journalism and reporting? Were you like
the little kid walking around and interviewing everyone about everything? So,
Chelsea is so interesting. You would ask me that as
a child, you'd fall back on what happens in your home.
(02:54):
And my parents, they were political junkies before it became
a thing. We would listen to the news on the
way to school. We would listen to the news we
came home, and it was so much so that I
asked my dad one day. I said, Dad, I said,
why do you watch the news all the time? Now?
This is where I should have run for my life,
but I instead of running, I embraced it, ran to it.
(03:16):
My dad said, well, I want to find out when
the world comes to an end. You don't tell a child,
you know. That was his way of explaining the importance
of news. And my parents also used to tell me,
which is embarrassing, and I've never said this anyone. As
a child, I used to take the extension court around
(03:37):
the house and you said like a microphone, and I
was saying I would report. So there was something there
a long time ago. And so when you then we're
in high school and college, did you have a more
kind of coherent sense of what you wanted to do
and that you wanted to run toward the news. I
(03:59):
knew I wanted to be in broadcasting, and I didn't
know what. And a friend was working at the local
college station on the weekend, so I said, bring me in,
let me see. And this was in high school. He
was a DJ, and I loved the conversation with people.
(04:19):
I loved informing, but what he was doing, he was
informing in a very flip witting way with music, gospel
music at the time. So I determined that when I
attended college, I wanted to go to that same radio
station in Baltimore, Morgan State University w E A A
and I wound up in a DJ between classes and
(04:43):
on the weekends, I was a DJ. I was a
jazz DJ, but later on I said, I'm not that
quick with I can tell you time and tim in
the station I d but the quick wittedness wasn't me.
But I always wanted news. I wanted to see what
it was is that people needed, and so I started
(05:03):
moving towards news and producing and news reporting into sophomore year,
and that was in the eighties. How important do you
think being in an HBCU was to helping you think
about connecting with the news, being kind of a truth
teller of the news, and shaping the journalists that you've become.
(05:24):
There's nothing like an hbc U. I I say this
all the time that HBCUs love you to success, and
it's true because it's like a family environment. These are
people who want to push you out the door to
become a viable part of society, to move into middle
(05:45):
income and create and and change the status quo. We've
heard so much about harvarding you all the Ivy League schools,
that's what they tell their students. But HBCUs do the same.
And now we're seeing that fruit from the HBCUs, as
we're seeing much the leadership in this nation. A graduate
of HBCUs. So what they taught me is a sense
(06:06):
of self, a sense of family, a sense of community
and to change things that aren't where they should be.
I've been in various schools. I attended parochial schools, I
attended HBCUs. But you know, each piece has helped me
understand who I am, what the world looks like, what
(06:29):
it smells like, what it tastes like, and sometimes when
it's bitter, how I can give it a little sauce
to change that bitterness. We're having this conversation in the
context of Women's History Month, and I'm so thankfully it
to speak with women that I admire so much. And
I wonder, April, if there are women who have been
important to you in your development as a person and
(06:52):
also as a journalist. Well, my late mother and your mother,
and you have a great mother. I'm going to keep
how many yes, But you know, I've talked to her
about how her mother influenced her. And I looked to
women who are strong, who are game changers, and the
(07:13):
first piece that they talked about a lot of times
is how their mother instilled something in them, some kind
of light to help them move forward. I would be
remiss if I didn't say my late mother. She was
my best friend, she was everything. She opened doors for
me that typically was shut. And she told me as
(07:35):
a little black child growing up in Baltimore, where they
say the word failure is built into our very existence.
She instilled me, I can be and do anything I
want to be as long as I work hard and
I get a good education. She didn't care about all
that other stuff that they were saying, and I believed her.
(07:57):
And this may sound trite, but again from Baltimo more,
I grew up with Oprah Winfrey. That's all I've ever known.
You know, Oprah Winfrey was in Baltimore when I was
a kid. She was on the local news. She was
doing a show called People Are Talking with Richard Chair
And I was in high school when she left to
go to Chicago. All I've ever known was Oprah Winfrey
(08:20):
as this symbol of media. You can't go wrong by
watching her at her rise and how she's open doors
and how she has changed the game and the dynamic.
So I've never known broadcast without Oprah. The women in
my family, they believed in community and family and love
(08:42):
those support systems and my aunt's they'll love you, but
they also tell you, look, now this isn't right. Well
that's part of love too, right right. You don't want
yes people all the time. You want people who are
honest with you. The many women whose shoulders that I
stand on Ethel Paine and Alice Dunnagan, black women who
(09:03):
were at the White House decades ago when they were
fighting for civil rights. If it weren't for them, I
would not be April Ryan in the White House briefing
room reporting for the Grio, and so April Ryan reporting
for the Grio from the White House briefing room. When
you were narrowing in on your dream, your ambition to
(09:25):
be a journalist in your software year, did you see
yourself in the White House briefing room? Never? Ever, never ever?
You know. I talked to some college classmates, said, oh,
you always said that's I never said I wanted that.
It's been so interesting. Everything has fallen into place for
me without me asking for it. And I tell people
(09:47):
would be prepared for the Higher power to move in
a way that you don't expect, but when it comes,
be ready, because success is the intersection of preparation and opportunity.
And the opportunity came and I was young. A lot
of people may not know that you have been in
the White House Briefing Room for many years and have
(10:10):
covered and engaged with many different administrations. Twenty five years,
twenty five years, and I never imagined that, um, former
President Bill Clinton was my first president. And I'll never
forget I got the bug to come to Washington reporting
in Baltimore when your family came to d C to
(10:34):
begin the eight years and that big celebration at the
Lincoln Memorial Aretha Franklin, uh, Michael Jackson, and Stevie wondered.
So many people were there and I was like, Wow,
this is amazing, and never knowing that four years later
I'd be covering the White House. What was that first
(10:55):
day like? When you got into the White House Briefing
Room on your first day, I was intimidated. I was scared.
When I started walking up to the building. You see
this stark, bright white building with these black wrought iron
gates surrounding. I said, wow, look at the history. It
wasn't about the occupants inside, but it was about how
(11:18):
it was built, who it was built by, the people
who were in their negotiating for my right to be there.
I always look at the history of things before I
just immersed myself and things and I was. That was
so intimidating, and I started tearing up. And, like I said,
a kid from Baltimore, I never expected this. Yeah, I'm
(11:41):
supposed to be there because our founding father said it.
But I am humble enough to understand that not many
people get there. And when you get there, there's a responsibility.
It's not about me. We'll be right back to stay
with us. April. When you walked into the White House
(12:12):
briefing room, how many other black women were there? I
remember Sonya Ross when they associated press and scales from
the Boston Globe. So you weren't the only one, but no,
you also were still probably not it was not represented
representing what it should have been, right, But I was
(12:34):
the only one. They're focused in on the urban agenda,
focused in on news for people who were underserved, and
there was a large contention of black orders at numbers
since dwindles, So we've lost ground. We've lost ground on
a lot of ground. Yes, So, April, could you just
reflect on that a little bit, like the White House
(12:56):
briefing room, that your colleagues have gotten less diverse over
the last twenty five years. Yeah, it's so sad. What
happens is if you see a president come into the
White House and he has a leaning towards issues on race,
he has a leaning on issues of diversity, they ten
(13:21):
more to put reporters in that reflect the president's mindset
are leaning. And are they the media organizations or are
they the White House Press Office? Oh no, no, the
media organizations. The White House Press Office has nothing to
do with it. They can suggest. So we would like
to see a room that looks like America, but it's
up to the news organization. So when George W. Bush
(13:45):
came in, the numbers dwindled because the thought, and even
George W. Bush said this to make the thought is
that he is not considered someone who is forward thinking.
My mans a race, he said, one because of his father.
He's a Republican. He was the governor of Texas and
the fact that Texas had one of the worst death
penalty rankings in the nation, if not the worst. We
(14:07):
talked so much about race on so many different levels,
and he said, you know, people don't believe. And I
was like really, And I said, the way we're talking,
if you could talk like that, like you're talking to me,
people would be more amenable and the George W. Wish
that I saw at that time was so different than
what we saw in television. I mean, Chelsea, we even
(14:28):
had a conversation during the campaign between then presidential Canada
John McCain and then presidential Canada Barack Obama. George W.
Bush told me he said he saw the subtle and
overt racism in the campaign and it was a moment
I'll never forget. I mean, when you are around that
(14:49):
rarefied air to to find out what a sitting president
is thinking on matters of racing issue that you cover,
you listen because the division was happening. Political correctness was
leaving the room. The racial divide was coming to the forefront.
And the way I see it is that your father,
(15:11):
former President Bill Clinton, saw a need to deal with
matters of race. He was willing to put race on
the table when others did not do it. And when
I first came into the White House the first couple
of months, people thought I was militant because I was
asking questions about race. I'm like, what and how much
(15:34):
of that do you think was because you were a
black woman that you were perceived militant versus if I
were asking those questions. They would think, Oh, that's great
for a moment, and then they'll ask you, why does
she keep asking on matters of race. Race is always
on the table. Racing money are two factors that are
always on the table, but it's never spoken about. And
(15:56):
I've learned this to Chelsea that the White House can
cottle Hill. It's not about politics or party. It's about
people and it's about humanity, and that is what's missing.
I think we forget as we have this crazy discourse.
I think we forget it's about people, truth and humanity.
And I'm throwing the word truth in there too. I
(16:18):
certainly think one of the greatest existential challenges we confront
in our democracy is the erosion of a shared understanding
of kind of what facts are and what truth is. Yeah,
my history books didn't prepare me for this, laws for
(16:41):
me to be broken. Now, you never thought that a
president could break the rule of law. You never imagined
January six, which now the Republicans say was a legitimate
form of political expression. Every threat against every person during
those for years has made real on January civis And
(17:04):
if that is embraced public discourse, we're really going down
the wrong road. I've watched the Republican Party call for
decorum in sacred political spaces, and that was a full
one riot to overthrow the government. End of story. The
(17:30):
executive branch at that time waged war on the legislative branch,
and we all watched it happen on live television. The
threats that so many of us received during those four
years were made real that day. And I tell people,
do not take this lightly. I mean, this is a
(17:52):
sacred political space that has been marred and forever changed.
The body politic is moving in a direction that is
totally juxtaposed to what the Founding father has put in place. Yes,
the Founding Fathers did not expect a nabl Ryan or
Barack Obama or Bill Clinton or George W. Bush. Where
(18:13):
Donald Trump, well, arguably they were worried about it. Donald Trump.
That's what they were trying with all of these these
pillars that they put in place to prevent. But now
we're embracing what the patriots contend. They never wanted. You
know able you during the Trump years at times went
(18:37):
from covering the story to being a story. And I
didn't like it, because that's not the job. You were
there to do. You weren't there to be a character
in his narrative. You were there to help Americans understand
why we should be concerned about the narrative that he
was creating an all of its weaponized hate. What was
(18:57):
it like to be singled out by Represident Trump every day?
My stomach turned walking in. I didn't want to make
it about me, and I tried not to make it
about me. I tried to put the issue on the table,
and they continued with personal attacks, and it became very hot,
(19:20):
to the point where you had people like Caesar sayok
put me in his bull's eye. I had to move
my home with my children, and as a mother, I
had to make my children feel safe as I was unnerved.
As my oldest daughter was in school, Chelsea reading on
(19:41):
a live feed in current events class what was happening
in the White House. She text messaged me and said, Mama,
your cas said, baby, I'm great. How do you tell
your daughter who is fifty miles away in Baltimore and
you're at the White House and they're attacking her other
and she's like, are you okay? I'm like, I'm great,
(20:04):
and make her believe it. So we can continue to
have great communication as a family, to continue to bond
as a family. I've had to do things to make
my family feel safe. I've had to move, But I
cannot stop doing what I do because if I do,
Who's gonna ask some of the questions that I asked.
(20:26):
This is my big period in the story. For others,
it's like, oh, we'll do this along with other things.
I drilled down on this. Sarah Hugaby Sanders, Sean Spice
or Donald Trump did not like that, and from taking
of the need, which was a lie from their narrative
(20:46):
as to why Kaepernick was doing it. To the question
I asked, would you apologize to the Central Park five?
And he said, I don't know why you're asking. You
know I wouldn't. Those things are relevant, but yet I'm wrong.
And think about it, if the government or the criminal
justice system listen to Donald Trump and those full page ads,
(21:11):
those men would not be here today. And they were innocent,
and in his mind they should not be why because
or the color of their skin and they come from right,
so matters a race are very real. It's life and
death policing another issue. Unfortunately, you're guilty just for the
(21:36):
coloring the melanin in your skin, their street corner justice
for many black people when other communities are afforded the
justice in the courtroom. And people need to understand this
is not new, this is cyclical. We've been seeing this
since the sheriffing of slaves. So when we ask these questions,
(21:57):
why are you bringing up because it's a problem, it's
perpetual problem, and there's a history behind it. I think
twenty five years is um. I think it's educated some people,
it's made some others man, but there is truth out
there that needs to be told and questioned. You've repeatedly
(22:17):
brought up the importance of history, and maybe some people
listening to this conversation think, well, isn't news about what's
happening in the moment. And yet, as you have continually
pointed out, what's happening in the moment has the antecedents
of sometimes years, sometimes decades, and sometimes centuries, centuries, centuries,
(22:38):
And I think we're all better for you bringing that
perspective into the White House briefing room. I remain really
disturbed that the White House briefing room has gotten less
diverse in the twenty five years since you've been there,
and I wonder do you see that shifting or still
(22:59):
not What needs to happen for the shift, we need
to see more people of color come into political reporting
so that these managers can't deny them. We're taking a
quick break. Stay with us. I'm sure you have so
(23:29):
many people who come and ask you for advice, young journalists,
maybe not so young journalists, black women. What do you
say to them as the wisdom that you've gained through
all of your success and experiences, and also how do
you try to encourage them to go into political journalism.
You know, after all I've been through these last couple
of years, it's hard to encourage young women, especially women
(23:52):
of color, and tell people it's different and you have
to have a very tough skin. Not only do you
have to have a tough skin, you have to really
understand the story. You have to immerse yourself in the story.
You have to study like you've never studied before. I
did want to ask you about your next book, which
is coming out this year, Black Women will Save the World.
(24:13):
I agree with that, though I think we expect too
much of black women and black women shouldn't have to
save the world. But because the rest of us keep failing.
It just seems to be where we are as a country.
But now that I've unnecessarily editor realized, I wonder if
you could tell us why you wrote the book, what
it's about, and why you titled it as you did.
(24:34):
I am a black woman, and I love black women
because I understand the unique struggle that we go through.
Do you have to play a role, a character if
you will a lot of times in rooms and spaces
that don't necessarily look like you. And not only are
(24:55):
we doing that, but we're lifting up the office, we're
lifting up the home. And we don't get the encouragement,
we don't get the support, we don't get the accolades.
I tell stories about black women from the past, but
most of all recently and things they've done. For instance, Chelsea,
(25:18):
I don't know if you know this, but Maxine Waters
was the first person to sound the bell about January six.
During the Democratic Caucus meeting. Maybe a month or so
before January six, she had questioned the Capitol Hill Police
and Nancy Pelosi, what are you going to do? And
(25:39):
they said, oh, we've got it under control. They sent
them out little flyers. Well, this If this happens, you
move over here. If this happens, you move over there.
She sounded the alarm and she was not listen to
painful theme and American hangful. We talked to Stacy Abrams,
(25:59):
We talked to Keisha Lance Bottoms, We talked to so
many different people. Got stories that are jaw dropping, stories
that would shock you about the rise of some of
the black women that are in some of the highest
offices right now. And it's a book that is a
love letter to black women, but it's a book for
America to see. Wait a minute, did they do that really?
(26:21):
Oh my gosh. We should thank them or we should
harald them. We need to know who it is that
has been holding the flag, who has been loving the
country sometimes when the country doesn't love them back, Who
has been sounding the alarm and no one listens? And
(26:43):
so April, is there one statistic or fact about women
and black women in media and journalism that either gives
you optimism and hope or that you find particularly enraging
and probably give few motivation. And what's enraging? I'm gonna
talk about black women in general. We're rising in number
(27:05):
as the head of household we're rising in number as
the breadwinner in the family. It gives me pause, but
it also gives us hope for the resilience of Black women.
Black women are independent thinkers. It gives me hope we're
not swede as easily. But it gives me hope as
(27:28):
a woman that we are survivors no matter what. We
are considered that softer gender, but we rise to the
top topic every occasion be our fighters too. So I
think Black women and women as a whole are still
forces to be reckoned with. And there will be a
day when, surely Chisholm's statement, if you don't have a
(27:52):
suit table, bring a folding chair. I believe there will
be a day when we're talking about how many tables
we own and chairs and folding cheers. I believe our
resilience is what gives us hope. Abri Ryan, thank you
so much for being here, and I can't wait to
read Black Women Will Save the World. I appreciate you
(28:14):
and I think you are magnificent all the global work
you do, the humanitarian efforts and just being a boss
woman yourself. Chelsea, I thank you are awesome. Thank you
that means a lot coming from you April, thank you
so much. You can find April Ryan on Twitter at
April d Ryan and her new book Black Women Will
(28:35):
Save the World will be out in October. In Fact
is brought to you by I Heart Radio. We are
produced by a mighty group of women and one amazing man,
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with help from Lindsay Hoffman, Barry Lurie, Joyce Kuban, Julie Supran,
(28:59):
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review on Apple Podcasts.
Hi, I'm Chelsea Clinton, and this season on in fact,
we're celebrating Women's History Month. I'll be talking with trailblazing
women at the top of their fields about their personal journeys,
the progress women have fade, and how far we still
have to go today. I am very excited to be
(00:22):
discussing women in journalism with April Ryan, the longest serving
Black woman in the White House Press Corps. April grew
up in Baltimore and got her start and broadcasting at
Morgan State University, an HBCU that is Maryland's largest historically
black university. Now with twenty five years and counting in
the White House Press Corps, April told me she stands
on the shoulders of the mighty journalists who came before her.
(00:46):
Alice Dunnigan and Ethel Payne were the first black women
to receive White House Press credentials, Dunigan in and Pain
shortly thereafter. These women spoke truth to power during the
Civil Rights Movement and suffered terrible indignities. Dunningan was banned
from covering a speech by President Eisenhower because it was
held in a whites only theater and to cover an
Ohio senator's funeral, she was forced to sit in segregated
(01:09):
seating away from the other journalists. And while that may
sound outrageous to us now, in some ways little has changed.
When Eisenhower became annoyed with Ethel Payne over a question
she asked about integration, he refused to call on her
for the rest of his presidency, and he had his
press secretary tried to take away her White House credentials.
Sound familiar. More than fifty years later, and two decades
(01:32):
into her career as a White House correspondent, April Ryan
faced a similar response from President Trump. Annoyed by the
questions she was asking, President refused to answer, told April
to sit down, and called her names like nasty and
a loser. He also implied he would take away her
press credentials. April Lynne began receiving death threats on social
(01:52):
media and through the mail. She even had to move
her family and hire a bodyguard for their safety. Despite
all of this, and Alice down again and Ethel pain
before her, April refused to be intimidated, inspiring a new
generation in the process. In April was named Journalist of
the Year for the National Association of Black journalists, and
(02:13):
after twenty three years of American urban radio networks, she
is now the White House correspondent and Washington, d C.
Bureau chief for The Grio. April Ryan, thank you so
much for joining me today. I'm really excited for our conversation.
(02:33):
And I wondered if we could start at the beginning.
What drew you to journalism and reporting? Were you like
the little kid walking around and interviewing everyone about everything? So,
Chelsea is so interesting. You would ask me that as
a child, you'd fall back on what happens in your home.
(02:54):
And my parents, they were political junkies before it became
a thing. We would listen to the news on the
way to school. We would listen to the news we
came home, and it was so much so that I
asked my dad one day. I said, Dad, I said,
why do you watch the news all the time? Now?
This is where I should have run for my life,
but I instead of running, I embraced it, ran to it.
(03:16):
My dad said, well, I want to find out when
the world comes to an end. You don't tell a child,
you know. That was his way of explaining the importance
of news. And my parents also used to tell me,
which is embarrassing, and I've never said this anyone. As
a child, I used to take the extension court around
(03:37):
the house and you said like a microphone, and I
was saying I would report. So there was something there
a long time ago. And so when you then we're
in high school and college, did you have a more
kind of coherent sense of what you wanted to do
and that you wanted to run toward the news. I
(03:59):
knew I wanted to be in broadcasting, and I didn't
know what. And a friend was working at the local
college station on the weekend, so I said, bring me in,
let me see. And this was in high school. He
was a DJ, and I loved the conversation with people.
(04:19):
I loved informing, but what he was doing, he was
informing in a very flip witting way with music, gospel
music at the time. So I determined that when I
attended college, I wanted to go to that same radio
station in Baltimore, Morgan State University w E A A
and I wound up in a DJ between classes and
(04:43):
on the weekends, I was a DJ. I was a
jazz DJ, but later on I said, I'm not that
quick with I can tell you time and tim in
the station I d but the quick wittedness wasn't me.
But I always wanted news. I wanted to see what
it was is that people needed, and so I started
(05:03):
moving towards news and producing and news reporting into sophomore year,
and that was in the eighties. How important do you
think being in an HBCU was to helping you think
about connecting with the news, being kind of a truth
teller of the news, and shaping the journalists that you've become.
(05:24):
There's nothing like an hbc U. I I say this
all the time that HBCUs love you to success, and
it's true because it's like a family environment. These are
people who want to push you out the door to
become a viable part of society, to move into middle
(05:45):
income and create and and change the status quo. We've
heard so much about harvarding you all the Ivy League schools,
that's what they tell their students. But HBCUs do the same.
And now we're seeing that fruit from the HBCUs, as
we're seeing much the leadership in this nation. A graduate
of HBCUs. So what they taught me is a sense
(06:06):
of self, a sense of family, a sense of community
and to change things that aren't where they should be.
I've been in various schools. I attended parochial schools, I
attended HBCUs. But you know, each piece has helped me
understand who I am, what the world looks like, what
(06:29):
it smells like, what it tastes like, and sometimes when
it's bitter, how I can give it a little sauce
to change that bitterness. We're having this conversation in the
context of Women's History Month, and I'm so thankfully it
to speak with women that I admire so much. And
I wonder, April, if there are women who have been
important to you in your development as a person and
(06:52):
also as a journalist. Well, my late mother and your mother,
and you have a great mother. I'm going to keep
how many yes, But you know, I've talked to her
about how her mother influenced her. And I looked to
women who are strong, who are game changers, and the
(07:13):
first piece that they talked about a lot of times
is how their mother instilled something in them, some kind
of light to help them move forward. I would be
remiss if I didn't say my late mother. She was
my best friend, she was everything. She opened doors for
me that typically was shut. And she told me as
(07:35):
a little black child growing up in Baltimore, where they
say the word failure is built into our very existence.
She instilled me, I can be and do anything I
want to be as long as I work hard and
I get a good education. She didn't care about all
that other stuff that they were saying, and I believed her.
(07:57):
And this may sound trite, but again from Baltimo more,
I grew up with Oprah Winfrey. That's all I've ever known.
You know, Oprah Winfrey was in Baltimore when I was
a kid. She was on the local news. She was
doing a show called People Are Talking with Richard Chair
And I was in high school when she left to
go to Chicago. All I've ever known was Oprah Winfrey
(08:20):
as this symbol of media. You can't go wrong by
watching her at her rise and how she's open doors
and how she has changed the game and the dynamic.
So I've never known broadcast without Oprah. The women in
my family, they believed in community and family and love
(08:42):
those support systems and my aunt's they'll love you, but
they also tell you, look, now this isn't right. Well
that's part of love too, right right. You don't want
yes people all the time. You want people who are
honest with you. The many women whose shoulders that I
stand on Ethel Paine and Alice Dunnagan, black women who
(09:03):
were at the White House decades ago when they were
fighting for civil rights. If it weren't for them, I
would not be April Ryan in the White House briefing
room reporting for the Grio, and so April Ryan reporting
for the Grio from the White House briefing room. When
you were narrowing in on your dream, your ambition to
(09:25):
be a journalist in your software year, did you see
yourself in the White House briefing room? Never? Ever, never ever?
You know. I talked to some college classmates, said, oh,
you always said that's I never said I wanted that.
It's been so interesting. Everything has fallen into place for
me without me asking for it. And I tell people
(09:47):
would be prepared for the Higher power to move in
a way that you don't expect, but when it comes,
be ready, because success is the intersection of preparation and opportunity.
And the opportunity came and I was young. A lot
of people may not know that you have been in
the White House Briefing Room for many years and have
(10:10):
covered and engaged with many different administrations. Twenty five years,
twenty five years, and I never imagined that, um, former
President Bill Clinton was my first president. And I'll never
forget I got the bug to come to Washington reporting
in Baltimore when your family came to d C to
(10:34):
begin the eight years and that big celebration at the
Lincoln Memorial Aretha Franklin, uh, Michael Jackson, and Stevie wondered.
So many people were there and I was like, Wow,
this is amazing, and never knowing that four years later
I'd be covering the White House. What was that first
(10:55):
day like? When you got into the White House Briefing
Room on your first day, I was intimidated. I was scared.
When I started walking up to the building. You see
this stark, bright white building with these black wrought iron
gates surrounding. I said, wow, look at the history. It
wasn't about the occupants inside, but it was about how
(11:18):
it was built, who it was built by, the people
who were in their negotiating for my right to be there.
I always look at the history of things before I
just immersed myself and things and I was. That was
so intimidating, and I started tearing up. And, like I said,
a kid from Baltimore, I never expected this. Yeah, I'm
(11:41):
supposed to be there because our founding father said it.
But I am humble enough to understand that not many
people get there. And when you get there, there's a responsibility.
It's not about me. We'll be right back to stay
with us. April. When you walked into the White House
(12:12):
briefing room, how many other black women were there? I
remember Sonya Ross when they associated press and scales from
the Boston Globe. So you weren't the only one, but no,
you also were still probably not it was not represented
representing what it should have been, right, But I was
(12:34):
the only one. They're focused in on the urban agenda,
focused in on news for people who were underserved, and
there was a large contention of black orders at numbers
since dwindles, So we've lost ground. We've lost ground on
a lot of ground. Yes, So, April, could you just
reflect on that a little bit, like the White House
(12:56):
briefing room, that your colleagues have gotten less diverse over
the last twenty five years. Yeah, it's so sad. What
happens is if you see a president come into the
White House and he has a leaning towards issues on race,
he has a leaning on issues of diversity, they ten
(13:21):
more to put reporters in that reflect the president's mindset
are leaning. And are they the media organizations or are
they the White House Press Office? Oh no, no, the
media organizations. The White House Press Office has nothing to
do with it. They can suggest. So we would like
to see a room that looks like America, but it's
up to the news organization. So when George W. Bush
(13:45):
came in, the numbers dwindled because the thought, and even
George W. Bush said this to make the thought is
that he is not considered someone who is forward thinking.
My mans a race, he said, one because of his father.
He's a Republican. He was the governor of Texas and
the fact that Texas had one of the worst death
penalty rankings in the nation, if not the worst. We
(14:07):
talked so much about race on so many different levels,
and he said, you know, people don't believe. And I
was like really, And I said, the way we're talking,
if you could talk like that, like you're talking to me,
people would be more amenable and the George W. Wish
that I saw at that time was so different than
what we saw in television. I mean, Chelsea, we even
(14:28):
had a conversation during the campaign between then presidential Canada
John McCain and then presidential Canada Barack Obama. George W.
Bush told me he said he saw the subtle and
overt racism in the campaign and it was a moment
I'll never forget. I mean, when you are around that
(14:49):
rarefied air to to find out what a sitting president
is thinking on matters of racing issue that you cover,
you listen because the division was happening. Political correctness was
leaving the room. The racial divide was coming to the forefront.
And the way I see it is that your father,
(15:11):
former President Bill Clinton, saw a need to deal with
matters of race. He was willing to put race on
the table when others did not do it. And when
I first came into the White House the first couple
of months, people thought I was militant because I was
asking questions about race. I'm like, what and how much
(15:34):
of that do you think was because you were a
black woman that you were perceived militant versus if I
were asking those questions. They would think, Oh, that's great
for a moment, and then they'll ask you, why does
she keep asking on matters of race. Race is always
on the table. Racing money are two factors that are
always on the table, but it's never spoken about. And
(15:56):
I've learned this to Chelsea that the White House can
cottle Hill. It's not about politics or party. It's about
people and it's about humanity, and that is what's missing.
I think we forget as we have this crazy discourse.
I think we forget it's about people, truth and humanity.
And I'm throwing the word truth in there too. I
(16:18):
certainly think one of the greatest existential challenges we confront
in our democracy is the erosion of a shared understanding
of kind of what facts are and what truth is. Yeah,
my history books didn't prepare me for this, laws for
(16:41):
me to be broken. Now, you never thought that a
president could break the rule of law. You never imagined
January six, which now the Republicans say was a legitimate
form of political expression. Every threat against every person during
those for years has made real on January civis And
(17:04):
if that is embraced public discourse, we're really going down
the wrong road. I've watched the Republican Party call for
decorum in sacred political spaces, and that was a full
one riot to overthrow the government. End of story. The
(17:30):
executive branch at that time waged war on the legislative branch,
and we all watched it happen on live television. The
threats that so many of us received during those four
years were made real that day. And I tell people,
do not take this lightly. I mean, this is a
(17:52):
sacred political space that has been marred and forever changed.
The body politic is moving in a direction that is
totally juxtaposed to what the Founding father has put in place. Yes,
the Founding Fathers did not expect a nabl Ryan or
Barack Obama or Bill Clinton or George W. Bush. Where
(18:13):
Donald Trump, well, arguably they were worried about it. Donald Trump.
That's what they were trying with all of these these
pillars that they put in place to prevent. But now
we're embracing what the patriots contend. They never wanted. You
know able you during the Trump years at times went
(18:37):
from covering the story to being a story. And I
didn't like it, because that's not the job. You were
there to do. You weren't there to be a character
in his narrative. You were there to help Americans understand
why we should be concerned about the narrative that he
was creating an all of its weaponized hate. What was
(18:57):
it like to be singled out by Represident Trump every day?
My stomach turned walking in. I didn't want to make
it about me, and I tried not to make it
about me. I tried to put the issue on the table,
and they continued with personal attacks, and it became very hot,
(19:20):
to the point where you had people like Caesar sayok
put me in his bull's eye. I had to move
my home with my children, and as a mother, I
had to make my children feel safe as I was unnerved.
As my oldest daughter was in school, Chelsea reading on
(19:41):
a live feed in current events class what was happening
in the White House. She text messaged me and said, Mama,
your cas said, baby, I'm great. How do you tell
your daughter who is fifty miles away in Baltimore and
you're at the White House and they're attacking her other
and she's like, are you okay? I'm like, I'm great,
(20:04):
and make her believe it. So we can continue to
have great communication as a family, to continue to bond
as a family. I've had to do things to make
my family feel safe. I've had to move, But I
cannot stop doing what I do because if I do,
Who's gonna ask some of the questions that I asked.
(20:26):
This is my big period in the story. For others,
it's like, oh, we'll do this along with other things.
I drilled down on this. Sarah Hugaby Sanders, Sean Spice
or Donald Trump did not like that, and from taking
of the need, which was a lie from their narrative
(20:46):
as to why Kaepernick was doing it. To the question
I asked, would you apologize to the Central Park five?
And he said, I don't know why you're asking. You
know I wouldn't. Those things are relevant, but yet I'm wrong.
And think about it, if the government or the criminal
justice system listen to Donald Trump and those full page ads,
(21:11):
those men would not be here today. And they were innocent,
and in his mind they should not be why because
or the color of their skin and they come from right,
so matters a race are very real. It's life and
death policing another issue. Unfortunately, you're guilty just for the
(21:36):
coloring the melanin in your skin, their street corner justice
for many black people when other communities are afforded the
justice in the courtroom. And people need to understand this
is not new, this is cyclical. We've been seeing this
since the sheriffing of slaves. So when we ask these questions,
(21:57):
why are you bringing up because it's a problem, it's
perpetual problem, and there's a history behind it. I think
twenty five years is um. I think it's educated some people,
it's made some others man, but there is truth out
there that needs to be told and questioned. You've repeatedly
(22:17):
brought up the importance of history, and maybe some people
listening to this conversation think, well, isn't news about what's
happening in the moment. And yet, as you have continually
pointed out, what's happening in the moment has the antecedents
of sometimes years, sometimes decades, and sometimes centuries, centuries, centuries,
(22:38):
And I think we're all better for you bringing that
perspective into the White House briefing room. I remain really
disturbed that the White House briefing room has gotten less
diverse in the twenty five years since you've been there,
and I wonder do you see that shifting or still
(22:59):
not What needs to happen for the shift, we need
to see more people of color come into political reporting
so that these managers can't deny them. We're taking a
quick break. Stay with us. I'm sure you have so
(23:29):
many people who come and ask you for advice, young journalists,
maybe not so young journalists, black women. What do you
say to them as the wisdom that you've gained through
all of your success and experiences, and also how do
you try to encourage them to go into political journalism.
You know, after all I've been through these last couple
of years, it's hard to encourage young women, especially women
(23:52):
of color, and tell people it's different and you have
to have a very tough skin. Not only do you
have to have a tough skin, you have to really
understand the story. You have to immerse yourself in the story.
You have to study like you've never studied before. I
did want to ask you about your next book, which
is coming out this year, Black Women will Save the World.
(24:13):
I agree with that, though I think we expect too
much of black women and black women shouldn't have to
save the world. But because the rest of us keep failing.
It just seems to be where we are as a country.
But now that I've unnecessarily editor realized, I wonder if
you could tell us why you wrote the book, what
it's about, and why you titled it as you did.
(24:34):
I am a black woman, and I love black women
because I understand the unique struggle that we go through.
Do you have to play a role, a character if
you will a lot of times in rooms and spaces
that don't necessarily look like you. And not only are
(24:55):
we doing that, but we're lifting up the office, we're
lifting up the home. And we don't get the encouragement,
we don't get the support, we don't get the accolades.
I tell stories about black women from the past, but
most of all recently and things they've done. For instance, Chelsea,
(25:18):
I don't know if you know this, but Maxine Waters
was the first person to sound the bell about January six.
During the Democratic Caucus meeting. Maybe a month or so
before January six, she had questioned the Capitol Hill Police
and Nancy Pelosi, what are you going to do? And
(25:39):
they said, oh, we've got it under control. They sent
them out little flyers. Well, this If this happens, you
move over here. If this happens, you move over there.
She sounded the alarm and she was not listen to
painful theme and American hangful. We talked to Stacy Abrams,
(25:59):
We talked to Keisha Lance Bottoms, We talked to so
many different people. Got stories that are jaw dropping, stories
that would shock you about the rise of some of
the black women that are in some of the highest
offices right now. And it's a book that is a
love letter to black women, but it's a book for
America to see. Wait a minute, did they do that really?
(26:21):
Oh my gosh. We should thank them or we should
harald them. We need to know who it is that
has been holding the flag, who has been loving the
country sometimes when the country doesn't love them back, Who
has been sounding the alarm and no one listens? And
(26:43):
so April, is there one statistic or fact about women
and black women in media and journalism that either gives
you optimism and hope or that you find particularly enraging
and probably give few motivation. And what's enraging? I'm gonna
talk about black women in general. We're rising in number
(27:05):
as the head of household we're rising in number as
the breadwinner in the family. It gives me pause, but
it also gives us hope for the resilience of Black women.
Black women are independent thinkers. It gives me hope we're
not swede as easily. But it gives me hope as
(27:28):
a woman that we are survivors no matter what. We
are considered that softer gender, but we rise to the
top topic every occasion be our fighters too. So I
think Black women and women as a whole are still
forces to be reckoned with. And there will be a
day when, surely Chisholm's statement, if you don't have a
(27:52):
suit table, bring a folding chair. I believe there will
be a day when we're talking about how many tables
we own and chairs and folding cheers. I believe our
resilience is what gives us hope. Abri Ryan, thank you
so much for being here, and I can't wait to
read Black Women Will Save the World. I appreciate you
(28:14):
and I think you are magnificent all the global work
you do, the humanitarian efforts and just being a boss
woman yourself. Chelsea, I thank you are awesome. Thank you
that means a lot coming from you April, thank you
so much. You can find April Ryan on Twitter at
April d Ryan and her new book Black Women Will
(28:35):
Save the World will be out in October. In Fact
is brought to you by I Heart Radio. We are
produced by a mighty group of women and one amazing man,
Erica Goodmanson, Mart Hart, Sarah Horrowitz, Jessmine Molly, and Justin Wright,
with help from Lindsay Hoffman, Barry Lurie, Joyce Kuban, Julie Supran,
(28:59):
Mike Taylor, and Emily Young. Original music is by Justin Right.
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