March 6, 2025 • 43 mins
For the first episode of her podcast, Leslie speaks with Terra Newall, famous for surviving (and killing) Dirty John. Terra and Leslie talk trauma, weird therapists, and Terra's goal to support ethical true crime podcasts.
Hosted by Leslie Dobson.
Produced and edited by Liam Billingham.
Mixed by Aaron Dalton.
Executive producers are Paul Anderson and Scott McCarthy for Workhouse Media.
The views expressed in this podcast episode are solely those of the guest speaker and do not reflect the views of the host or the production company.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Okay, you're here. My name is doctor Leslie, and this
is intentionally disturbing today. My guest is Tara Newall. Tara
is a very small, petite, blonde, bubbly young girl, and
I adore her. But Tara also stabbed the shit out
of somebody to protect herself in self defense. And we
(00:31):
are getting into that, but not just that. We're getting
into PTSD, what it means clinically and what it means
at a human level, as Tara has experienced ongoing traumas
in her life, what we would call complex PTSD, and
she is really really open.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
About talking about how that has affected her and has
especially brought down her ability to take care of herself
and see situations as dangerous, which has led her into
more dangerous situations.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
I hope you enjoy our conversation because I sure did. Allay,
you're here, Thank you for being here unintentionally disturbing. What
I want to do is dive into your story and
will you help me do that?
Speaker 3 (01:20):
Yes.
Speaker 4 (01:20):
So, I am a survivor of dirty John Meehan. I
took him down in self defense after he came after
me in a parking lot and attacked me and with
his own knife. I was able to get the knife
and actually attack him back and take his life in
(01:41):
self defense.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Amazing, amazing. So he's a psychopath con man married to
your mom, yes, and then came at you.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (01:53):
No, he checked a lot of the boxes on the
psychopathy checklist and he was cereal perpetrator. He went after
many many women. I am still uncovering women to this day.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
Really.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
Oh yeah, like thousands.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
Oh my god, yeah, amazing. Why did he go after
you that that night?
Speaker 4 (02:16):
Why you He had this mafia gangster mentality because he
told his dad told John that he grew up in
the Anestatia family and he came from that gangster family,
and so that was really his mentality. And then his mom.
He never had a great relationship with his mom. His
(02:38):
mom essentially hated him, and that's really where his hat
trade towards women kind of stemmed from.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
And then did he pick you out from your sisters?
Speaker 4 (02:49):
And yeah, no, he wanted he wanted like control over
my mom. He kind of had the perfect setup with
fine Nance's. He had the perfect setup with like her
trusting him, him, getting to go wherever, him going to
date many other women. But she didn't know about this,
(03:11):
but she trusted him, and I always had kind of
issues with him from date one. Even though I was
trying to get along with him. There was just so
many red flags that I was seen as an outsider
looking in.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
Oh. I mean the red flags were so obvious looking back,
but that's amazing. Yeah, not seen them.
Speaker 4 (03:34):
Yeah, well, you know, when you're in it, you're in
it and you're getting hit with all that oxytocin and
you're just in that love bubble.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
Oh my god. Okay, I'm so glad he's not with
us anymore. Okay, Okay. Obviously we've met before and hung
out before, but we talked about PTSD last time, and
I want to kind of of I want to use
this as an opportunity to educate the audience, but have
(04:06):
like a real conversation about PTSD because it's so different
for everyone, right, Like PTSD is not the same, Oh yeah,
for every person. So I'm curious, like, how how you
define it? What is PTSD to you? And then if
we can talk a little bit about you know, what
(04:26):
you do about it?
Speaker 4 (04:27):
Okay, yeah, PTSD post traumatic stress disorder. For me, I
have complex PTSD, which is you know, derived from childhood
and ongoing traumas that continuously kind of happen.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
Yeah, and so.
Speaker 4 (04:45):
That was like amplified with my trauma.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
But also.
Speaker 4 (04:52):
I was able to handle it because I was used
to trauma, if that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
Where I think that's a huge moment. Yeah, more trauma
actually makes you more resilient to trauma and then less
likely to flag the trauma and stop it and almost
invites bad things. Yeah, it's like a very weird cycle.
Speaker 4 (05:18):
Yeah, no, it is because if you say, if I
had this event and it was just honestly the only
bad thing that happened to me, I don't think I
would be having these conversations like I do. But instead
I had trauma that had happened, and those traumas were
(05:40):
bad and sexually assaulted as a child and stuff. And
it's funny because those memories actually didn't come out until
I was in EMDR processing my big trauma.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
The movement desensitization where your eyes are darting back and forth,
I probably we're tapping, but yeah, it does. It unlocks, uh,
it unlocks memories.
Speaker 4 (06:07):
Oh yeah, And at first I thought those memories were
false because you don't want to have those memories and
it's crazy because there was also this guy that created
this false memory syndrome, which now that's falsified because he
created it because his daughter was assaulted by him.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
Oh yes, okay, so I'm not familiar who is it.
Speaker 4 (06:31):
I forget his name, but it was the guy that
created the false memory syndrome, okay, and he created it
because of his daughter being I abused by him. And
that was all debunked and everything. I talked to Kimberly
Shannon Murphy. She is a sexual assault survivor by her
(06:52):
family members, and then she's a stunt woman. Oh yeah,
and she wrote this amazing book called Glimmers. But I
like talking to other survivors. I really got to kind
of debunk some stuff that are out there, you know,
because you can't just go find all the books. Sometimes
you have to talk to people and see them, you know,
(07:14):
hear the knowledge from them.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
Yeah. So it's helped you to hear from other people
about it. Okay, So EMDR brought up past things for you.
What's what's daily life like like when it comes to PTSD,
Like are you at a heightened level of vigilance? Are
you having flashbacks? Like? Is it okay?
Speaker 4 (07:36):
If I asked that, Yeah, no, okay, I'm just thinking
because some days are good, you know, some days I'm
great because I've done a lot of work on myself.
But then this year has been a crazy year. And
someone was telling me the other day how my Instagram
seems all over the place, and I'm like.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
Yeah, it's been a tough year.
Speaker 4 (07:59):
It's you know, I've dealt with a breakup and that
always brings up abandonment for me, and with abandonment, that's,
to be honest, my trigger of not wanting to be
here at times, and so going through those motions this year,
and then there's so much surrounding my mom and her
(08:22):
choosing John, and with my breakup this year, it was
like I was trying to say stuff and wasn't being heard,
and so it retriggered me back to my mom and
me telling her about John and being like, this person's
(08:43):
bad person. This person's bad person. And then it kind
of being turned on to me like you're having these issues,
like you're the one that's like the drama essentially, and
you know, things did play out where I ended up
being I'm having a moment of clarity now with my
(09:03):
past relationship.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
And the people that you know we're in it.
Speaker 4 (09:12):
And me kind of being right about like things with
that and having that support now and that.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
Can you tell me more about that? So there's an
epiphany that's kind of happening.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
Yeah. So like.
Speaker 4 (09:28):
I well, like I need to like not maybe say
to everyone that like this person's bad and like make
go into my fight mode over it.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
Instead.
Speaker 4 (09:41):
I need to like talk calmly, you know, see how
someone can listen to me, because when you're also in
that fight mode and your voice is at a couple
of different octaves up, you can't hear it because your
inner ear is also being like I don't want to
hear this.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Yeah. So now you're living at a higher level of
vigilance and things are more easily bringing you up to
a higher level.
Speaker 4 (10:13):
Yes, okay, yes, and you know with hypervigilance with the
trauma like makes you like super heightened with everything.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (10:23):
And I don't need to tell you this because you're
you know, you know it, but it's uh, it makes
you live in that fighter flight all the time. Yeah,
And so I really have to work on getting back
to homeostasis. And I am lucky where I only have
flashbacks at certain times where if I go through all
(10:45):
my story, like in January, I had a flashback that
I literally had blood in my.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
Hair for three days.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
Oh, it was like an image.
Speaker 4 (10:56):
Yes, well, like just because I I dyed my hair red.
And then that triggered me because I in the hospital,
you don't take a shower really or anything. So when
you get out of the shower, I took a shower
and then there's just that scene of blood coming down
(11:19):
into the train. Yeah, so I'd like I had a
flashback about that, And it's funny how just different parts
of my story when I talk about it, we'll bring
it up.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
And you don't really get to choose when a flashback comes, right,
it just enters and takes over, and then you're on
pause or freeze.
Speaker 4 (11:40):
Yeah, Like and I feel like I'm living in a
horror movie.
Speaker 3 (11:43):
Sometimes you are.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
You did, Yeah, but you've also taken it and you're
using it to help people, right, Like to me, that's
the most healing way to get through a trauma like that.
Speaker 4 (11:59):
Yeah, And that's like like the post progression part of
it and moving forward is how am I using this
trauma to fuel my life and fuel moving forward?
Speaker 1 (12:12):
Yeah, we're going to take a quick break and we'll
be right back. So I want to jump back to
a conversation we had a few weeks back about a therapist.
Oh my gosh, can we talk about it a little bit? Okay? So,
(12:32):
I mean, anyone with PTSD should go to therapy, right,
there's a tons there's a ton of different therapies, and
you think if you go to a therapist who's maybe
in a richer town who charges more, that they're going
to be better. But you had a different experience, yes, okay,
So can you kind of share, you know, what's your
(12:54):
therapy journey been for PTSD and then you know the
recent odd man that you encountered.
Speaker 4 (13:03):
Oh my gosh, okay, So I've been in therapy since
I was seven years old, starting from my parents' divorce
to like process around that, and then really stopped therapy.
I probably did it for like a few years, and
then went back when I got into my like adult
(13:26):
relationship when I was twenty four, actually right before, I know,
like twenty two twenty two.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Is this the guy that hit you with a car?
Speaker 3 (13:39):
No, I didn't go to therapy for that. I should have.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
I don't mean to laugh, but yeah, maybe you should have.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
Okay, maybe I should have for.
Speaker 4 (13:48):
That, but okay, actually no, I went back to therapy
when I was fifteen, okay, and I was seeing this person,
also a psychiatrist, and he was prescribed. He also diagnosed
me with bipolar, like minimal minimal bipolar, which I have
(14:08):
been to several several therapists since who have said that
it's not bipolar, it's complex PTSD.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
Which is common the misdiagnosis.
Speaker 4 (14:19):
Yes, but get what he put me on. He put
me on ten milligrams lexipro h, three hundred milligrams will abrutrin,
and two hundred milligrams topamax. Okay, so that's a heavy cocktail.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
Yeah, and I wore a diagnosis that wasn't accurate, yes,
okay mm hm.
Speaker 4 (14:43):
And I felt I felt okay because I was living
in dissociated like drug land. But then there would be
times where I would literally talk and the words would
be different from what my brain was trying to say.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
That must have been really uncomfortable, yeah, but like so disorienting.
Yeah okay.
Speaker 4 (15:08):
And so I stayed on those meds for until I
was around like twenty two.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
Oh wow, yeah, that's a long time.
Speaker 4 (15:17):
Yeah, okay, and I probably, like I did date someone
here and there that was an addict, and so I
we probably mixed my stuff.
Speaker 3 (15:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (15:29):
And I really liked xanx because you know, xanx it's
a fun way to relax.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
But yeah, I think it's an amazing drug, but it's
so addictive, yeah, because it's too good.
Speaker 4 (15:42):
Yeah, and so I you know, I mixed it probably
with xan x and then probably.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
Abused drugs a little bit.
Speaker 4 (15:53):
Uh probably, probably I didn't, and it was also because
I was with an addict.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
Yeah, and what kind of drugs I never I've never
used like cool ones.
Speaker 3 (16:06):
I'm oh my gosh, Okay.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
I tried ecstasy once and it was not good.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
But that's it. See.
Speaker 4 (16:16):
I would do ecstasy, but I felt like I wouldn't
feel it really. Yeah, So that probably explained like I
probably was. And this is like a part of my
life where like I don't believe in that. I don't
do that anymore whatsoever, Like I have it.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
Nears well it's like a self medicating yeah thing too. Yeah,
I mean you and it sounds like even self medicating
the medication. Yeah, right, so just like trying to shut
it off in some way, change it.
Speaker 4 (16:49):
Yeah, and I think I was just trying to cope
with all these toxic relationships, all this apparently bipolar disorder
when it was COMPLEXTSD, and then getting retraumatized by these
guys because that then I was with the guy that
hit me with a car, And how I kind of
(17:10):
survived that was I was okay. So I did take
ecstasy during that time, but not that night. That was
more so for a rave thing, the Xan's bars more so.
And then also stars like the footballs, like the green
at the green bars, the yellow.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
Bar twenty milligrams or something like the massive ones or
yes damn yes, Okay, so you are out of your
mind at times? Yeah, for a good reason.
Speaker 4 (17:42):
Yeah, yeah, and then so much then I did whip its.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
If you're a child and you're listening, get the fuck
off this network right now.
Speaker 4 (17:52):
Okay, sorry, but I don't recommend anyone doing that. I
was just just in a terrible phase of my life. Yeah,
and with a drug drug addict who hit me with
a car later.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
Yeah, so how did that play out? He's just like
there you are a room or no, I'm.
Speaker 4 (18:14):
Just telling you all my darkest stories in my life,
right now, and I've never talked about this.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
It's a safe place, so it's okay, the whole world
will hear it, yes, okay, okay, So wait, but how
do you get hit by a car? Like, because I
want to go into this your other therapy story, but like,
what what kind of man hit somebody with a car?
That's wild.
Speaker 4 (18:38):
I was a naive young girl doing a lot of
dumb things looking for attention.
Speaker 3 (18:44):
Just have to say that, and.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
As many of us.
Speaker 3 (18:48):
Yeah, and I went with.
Speaker 4 (18:53):
This guy to the guy that I was seeing kind
of and well, we were always together, but we were never.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
Like boyfriend and girlfriend.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (19:05):
It was a highly, highly toxic relationship. And one night
he was like, I want to go pick up my
friend and take her to rehab.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
Oh that's nice.
Speaker 3 (19:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (19:18):
So I was like, okay, let's go do it. And
we go and pick her up. We get there and
he's like, I'm gonna go upstairs and get her while
you guys just wait in the car. So we're all
waiting in the car and we're just waiting forever hmmm
(19:38):
mm hm.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
And he comes. Oh.
Speaker 4 (19:41):
He also told me beforehand, Tara, she may be a
little bit jealous and stuff. So try to be really
nice to her, try not to provoke her. I think
he was sleeping with her, and he was definitely doing
math with her.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
Well you're in the car, yeah, but we.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
Didn't know because we didn't do math. That was where
we through the line. We were like, no meth for us,
no heroine, We're good.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
Okay, at least there's a line. Okay. Yeah, So you
fucks the woman. And then he comes back.
Speaker 4 (20:11):
Yes, into the car with her. She has her stuff,
and she does start to get bitchy with me, and
I'm just like trying to brush it off, trying to
brush it off. We're in my car. We're driving to
my house to get to his car that's there, well,
his dad's car that's there. And we are driving there
(20:35):
and I am scared of heights, like really scared of heights.
So I start like panicking a bit, and then he
just shoves pills in my mouth. Oh and then I
keep on panicking and he like shoves more, and I'm
probably Xanax in Somas.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
Okay, And I'm just like it's so not a good scene.
Speaker 4 (21:02):
No no, And it's like he's doing it forcefully too,
and I'm just appeasing and just okay, yeah, going with it,
and then it comes to a point where we get
to my house and then at one point the girl
(21:26):
wants to fight me.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
Like physically fight you.
Speaker 4 (21:31):
Yes, okay, And at this time I'm a little amped up,
and I'm just like okay, like okay, why not, and
I'm and then I'm just getting into it, not physically
because the guys are like kind of holding us back,
and then they literally get into his car and then
(21:53):
I'm honestly confused by the whole situation. I'm like, how
was this girl trying to fight me? I was just
trying to talk, like I don't know what happened, and
we're also we used my car to go like to
like do all of this, and it's just like, yeah,
I'm so confused by the situation, and why is he
also leaving me?
Speaker 1 (22:16):
Like now, well, and you're on drugs, so not no
clear thinking?
Speaker 4 (22:23):
Yeah, okay, no clear thinking. And so I like stepped
off to the side of like his car and I'm
trying to like be like why aren't you, like why
aren't we talking? And then he takes off and then
he hits me on the side with the knee and
then I fall back and I hit the grass, which
(22:43):
is in my benefit too.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
And then.
Speaker 4 (22:48):
Because of my adrenaline everything, and because I was on
so mus yeah, because the gar hit me, like my
body was actually more relaxed.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
Yeah, so that where to my benefit too.
Speaker 4 (23:02):
And I get in my car and I like try
to chase after him, like he also stole my phone too. Oh,
that's actually why I was trying to. I was trying
to get my phone back and he wouldn't give it,
so he.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
Went off in another car. And then you went after him, yeah,
after he had hit you with his car.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
Yes, okay. And then I get to his house and.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
What do you like, Superwoman? This is okay like Avengers
right now?
Speaker 4 (23:31):
I like, it's the adrenaline. And then I'm like, I
can't believe. He's stolen my phone several times before, and
I would always know it was him, but he would
gaslight me and then I would be like, I don't know,
but this time it was like he stole my phone.
He stole my phone. I'm going to get my phone back.
And then so I tried to get my phone back
(23:54):
and try to find him, and I don't know why
I didn't just call the cops. But I was like,
in my head, I was like, he loves me. He
loves me, he like, and I think he's on drugs,
Like I just want him to get help, even though
I should be the one getting help right now.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
Yeah, but that's the that's the codependence, right, I mean,
that's a perfect topic topic for therapy.
Speaker 4 (24:23):
Yeah yeah, Okay, So.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
Then you go and see a therapist who makes you
run across the street.
Speaker 3 (24:32):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 4 (24:33):
So several years later, I.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
Really it back to this another trauma, yes, of somebody
who should be protecting you.
Speaker 4 (24:43):
Yes, And it's this I think me being uber trusting,
trying to give people the benefit of the doubt. And
then I meet this therapist. He's actually the therapist for
all my family members, like my mom, my sister, my
(25:05):
sister's boyfriend. And that's also kind of a big no.
No is like, no therapist should have the whole family.
He probably gives me too much information about my mom.
Speaker 3 (25:19):
And sister too.
Speaker 4 (25:21):
Okay, so this guy, Okay, so this is our third
session now. But when I went in he I was
waiting for a minute because he put two of his
clients to sleep and amdr and they were taking naps.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
So and maybe okay, So I've I trained in AMDR.
No one ever, so and just to explain amdr's I
movement desensitization, so reprocessing. So sleeping patients in the rooms,
yeah I've I'm shocked.
Speaker 3 (26:02):
Yeah, no, me too. I was a little weirded out
by that.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
And how did he justify it?
Speaker 4 (26:07):
That they were like tired and he didn't want them
to drive, So.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
The rooms aren't available, so you can't have your therapy session.
Speaker 3 (26:15):
So we go on.
Speaker 4 (26:17):
He asked if I'm okay with going outside the office.
So we go on a walk and he has me
put my person inside the cupboard. But at first he
has me promised me that I should freeze my eggs.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
What the fuck?
Speaker 4 (26:35):
And I'm like, well, I'm thinking about doing it anyway,
so sure.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
Wait, let's go for a walk. There are two patients
passed out in my rooms that are full freeze your
eggs and leave your purse.
Speaker 4 (26:48):
Yes, So I shake him on it, and then afterwards
he tells me that I should kick him in the balls.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
Wait, what do you mean you shake him on it?
Speaker 3 (26:59):
Like a shake him on freezing my eggs? Because I'm like,
I don't know what to do. Okay, and I've already
been thinking, oh, you shake hands.
Speaker 4 (27:05):
Yeah, I'm freezing my eggs.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
I'm sorry, that's so strange. Okay, so you shake hands,
you promised to freeze your eggs.
Speaker 4 (27:15):
And then he tells me to kick him in the
balls and do you know?
Speaker 1 (27:19):
Okay, no, and was he smirking.
Speaker 4 (27:22):
I was kind of like I did a nervous, like
laughing giggle because I didn't know how to take what
he just said.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
Okay, and then okay, he had some big balls then.
Speaker 4 (27:32):
Yeah, and then we go on a walk, Oh my gosh.
And then we're going he asked if I want to
go to Roger's Gardens and I'm like, sure, but I
don't have money or any.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
Purse, your security blanket.
Speaker 4 (27:46):
Yeah, and then so we head over there. But on
the walk, he's, oh, he's talking a lot about himself. Yeah,
he was talking a lot about himself and also what
I need to do.
Speaker 3 (28:02):
He also.
Speaker 4 (28:04):
Mentioned like what he's trying to also tell me that
he wants me to study under him.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
Oh in what way physically?
Speaker 4 (28:14):
He's I'm sure he wishes, but as like, because I
wanted to do emdr with people. Okay, So he says
he would train me and he has some friends that
would train me and stuff as well.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
Okay, and so we're just gonna make a note of
lots of red flags, yes, okay.
Speaker 4 (28:37):
And then he also tells me he's like, oh, why,
like why do you have your jacket on? And I
like to have my jacket on sometimes for security reasons.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
And he shouldn't be talking about your outfit.
Speaker 4 (28:50):
Yeah, And then he tells me, oh, you take off
your jacket and I say no, I like it on.
And then somehow it comes up he grabs my hand
or something, and then I'm like, oh, I'm sweaty, akay,
I'm nervous, and then he tells me it's okay.
Speaker 3 (29:12):
I like sweaty what? Yes? And then we walk some more.
Speaker 4 (29:21):
I am wearing a dress that does have like great cleavage,
like it's a great first date dress. But that's another
reason why I'm wanting to keep on my jacket. And
then he tells me that I'm sexy.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
Oh yeah, okay, And you're paying for this session.
Speaker 4 (29:40):
Well I called back because I didn't want to pay
for it, but you were.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
The intention was that this was an actual booked session,
Yes with a doctor.
Speaker 4 (29:49):
Yes, okay, yes, and then I uh, he tells me
about his marital problems with his wife.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
Great, great, he's married, okay.
Speaker 4 (29:59):
Yeah, and I was I just tried to say some
comforting words to him.
Speaker 1 (30:04):
Oh okay, so you're taking care of them.
Speaker 3 (30:06):
Yeah, okay.
Speaker 4 (30:07):
And then we go to Roger's Garden and he literally
runs across the street. Oh, and I'm like.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
With someone who's been hit by a car.
Speaker 4 (30:16):
Yeah, And I don't think he's ever known the hit
by the car part, but still.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
But he sure as fuck would have been aware of
your hesitation.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (30:26):
And it's across Mike like MacArthur, Yes, on that busy
street and so.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
Which is like six lanes.
Speaker 4 (30:35):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, And I run across hit because I
run after him because I'm like, what do I do?
And then we make it to Rogers Gardens and then
we sit in the bar area and then he orders
a bunch of food and then he just like eats
(30:56):
some eats some.
Speaker 1 (30:59):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (31:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (31:00):
And during this time, too, my mom is like kind
of like transitioning me to like being more on my
own financially. So he also knows that and he's like,
I got you.
Speaker 1 (31:17):
Okay, yeah, wow, that's so bizarre. I okay, So there
are so many red flags, and your gut was telling
you all along, what the fuck? What the fuck? So
what the what the fuck?
Speaker 3 (31:37):
Oh? And he also told me not to tell anyone.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
Oh my god, you were describing so many Catholic priests
that I know.
Speaker 3 (31:44):
And then that's funny because they work in true crime too.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
What are some of the red flags that we can
teach women listeners that that in that process they should
have stopped and what they should have done.
Speaker 4 (32:00):
Well, it's hard when you're in that situation, and there's
also that power dynamic. Yeah, and you don't expect this
to happen in therapy. So I think I was in
a state of shock the whole time, but I still
live in the peasing. And I confronted him afterwards because
(32:20):
I told him that what happened to me is considered
grooming behavior, and I told him that was not okay
with me. I told his assistant. His assistant stopped working
for him shortly after.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
Oh good for her, uh huh, And.
Speaker 4 (32:37):
I don't he told me that, like, she stopped working
for him because she's moving on with her own life.
But I can only assume otherwise because she told me
that that was not okay, and also she canceled all
his sessions after our session because she could tell something
was not right.
Speaker 1 (32:57):
Oh wow.
Speaker 4 (32:58):
He also apparently blamed it on him not getting sleep,
and he told me he was trying to test me
because I am such a big appeaser. And then he
offered me free therapy from there.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
On out to shut you up.
Speaker 4 (33:17):
Well, and I honestly could use free therapy, but in
my I was like, I'm never going back to him.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
I've never heard of this before in my twenty years
in this field. Ever. Like, there are so many moments
that are unethical and bizarre, and the onus is not
on you as a client to call out the red flags,
right because the therapist should never be putting them putting
(33:47):
a client in that position. Yeah, but I mean, god,
my brain right away. First, sleeping patients, that's weird, right, Yeah,
talking about your eggs, that's weird. Yeah, a handshake, touching
you without asking to touch you is weird.
Speaker 3 (34:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:07):
Putting your purse down.
Speaker 3 (34:09):
Into a lock cupboard. Who had the key? He did?
Speaker 4 (34:17):
And then I also met one of his other clients
and she told me how she's been seeing him for
years and how he sees all her family members, and
I was interesting, let me ask more questions.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
Hoop's commercial time. Wow. So looking back on that now,
I mean, what do you do with that?
Speaker 3 (34:42):
Well?
Speaker 4 (34:43):
I talked to my therapist that my mom wanted me
to switch from her to this one because she said
that I wasn't healing. And I went through a traumatic
event in two thousand sixteen. As you are aware of,
it takes a while to heal from that.
Speaker 1 (35:04):
If ever, right, how do you define healing?
Speaker 4 (35:07):
Yeah, and there are going to be days where I'm
not able to function. There's gonna be days where like
going out into public just triggers me. Yeah, and I'm
working on it. I'm working on it so much. But
it sucks when people are like, you need to be healed,
(35:28):
and so try someone else, and then that like retraumatizes
you because you're thinking, Okay, he's healing all my family members,
he's healing other people. But then he treats me differently
because I am sometimes a narcissist dream.
Speaker 1 (35:52):
So you feel like you're almost blaming yourself. I don't know, no, no, no, no, no.
He sounds very predatory.
Speaker 3 (36:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
Well, I like and you saw it coming. You were
in it in the moment, but also you were so
gas lit and in a fog because of what you've
endured that you can't find the voice to speak out
or the confidence or I don't know what. You can't
show up to the situation as you because there's so
(36:26):
much going on.
Speaker 4 (36:27):
Yeah, and he do use like what I wanted most,
Like I wanted to help other people and do EMDR
for other people, but I don't want to do the schooling.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
So you kind of also let yourself endure that because
the potential gain of having him as a mentor.
Speaker 3 (36:45):
Yes, and then it's just God.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
We're like in the world of Sean Colmes right now.
This is this is the problem with the world right now,
is that people abuse authority because the underlings want to
want the teaching, want the mentorship, want the help.
Speaker 4 (37:05):
Yeah, and they use like that thing that you want.
Speaker 1 (37:08):
Most, Yeah, what is the thing that you want most
to help other people? Yeah? What does it look like?
Speaker 4 (37:16):
It looks like a bunch of people having awareness about
their trauma, having awareness about their triggers, having awareness about
like what is right and what is wrong. And it's
not so black and white in a sense. But sometimes
it is.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
And maybe giving people permission to fail to not do
it right all the time. Yeah, and two steps forward,
one step back is a million steps forward, a million
steps back, like letting them just be them.
Speaker 4 (37:50):
Yeah, Like it's just like I've had so many people
be like, you need to get to this place, you
need to do this, you need to be here, you
should be making this money. And I'm like, I am
where I am, and that's okay.
Speaker 1 (38:09):
That was a question I had, like lingering in my
mind about money. How do you feel about the true
crime community making money off you?
Speaker 3 (38:21):
It's gross.
Speaker 1 (38:22):
True crime is the largest what the largest podcasts, I
don't know what you call it. I'm new to this.
The largest media money making the area of podcasting right now.
Speaker 3 (38:34):
Yeah. No, Well it's because.
Speaker 4 (38:37):
I think what draws us in to what killers is
the same reasons sometimes why we end up with them.
And I think that so many people don't know what
abuse is.
Speaker 1 (38:55):
Oh, psychological, emotional, physical, definitely, Like.
Speaker 3 (39:00):
With my family, like.
Speaker 4 (39:05):
I was normalized to see murder as something you should forgive,
and it's the most grotesque act anyone could do. I mean,
I had to take a life because someone was trying
to take mine. But to go after someone, to plan
(39:27):
and plot and to take that person's life like that
is the most evil you can do.
Speaker 1 (39:35):
So how do you? I mean, I sit with you now,
and you have this energy and you're bubbly and you're
lovely and you're a killer, and we giggle. How does this?
How do we piece this together?
Speaker 3 (39:54):
How do you?
Speaker 1 (39:56):
How have you recovered to the point of still being you?
Of everything?
Speaker 4 (40:01):
I did meet his family at first, and because of
my situation with the guy hitting me with a car
when he died, it gave me more clarity to how
John's survivors felt. Oh, because the guy that hit me
(40:25):
with the car to up until he died, he was
sending messages to different media outlets. He was harassing me
on Instagram and other platforms.
Speaker 2 (40:38):
And.
Speaker 4 (40:40):
I felt like I'm never going to get away from him.
And when he died, it was like I don't have
to look over my back anymore.
Speaker 1 (40:53):
So there is a welcome side to death.
Speaker 3 (40:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:58):
For mental health, yeah too.
Speaker 4 (41:01):
And it's funny, Well it's not really funny, but it's
weird how people are like, oh, don't speak ill of
the dead.
Speaker 3 (41:09):
You can speak ill of whoever you.
Speaker 4 (41:10):
Want to speak. If they were an abuser to you.
Speaker 3 (41:14):
Call it out.
Speaker 4 (41:15):
Don't be like, oh, rest in peace. You could call
it out when they're dead, you could call it out whenever.
You know, you just have to be careful of defamation
for yourself and make sure what you're saying is not falsified.
Speaker 1 (41:28):
You've been through so much. You've been through so much,
Like I think people would love to hear how you
maintain hope. You know, how you maintain that forward movement
in future.
Speaker 3 (41:44):
Well, I have goals, Yeah, tell me your goals. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (41:48):
So I'm working on my own documentary right now. Oh really, okay, yes,
so I'm gonna put the story to rest that way,
and then I just want to help other survivors get
out their stories. So I'm working on another documentary with
another survivor, yeah, and then also helping other survivors produce
their podcast gat guests. I'm a booker as well. I
(42:13):
have a podcasting course that teaches you how to do
anything and everything, and we also focus on the ethics
of true crime too.
Speaker 1 (42:22):
Oh wow, yeah, the ethics of true crime. Yes, it's
actually so needed. It is an area that we need
in this true crime world.
Speaker 3 (42:32):
Thank you.
Speaker 4 (42:33):
Yeah, do you have a website, Yes, so you could
go to my website, Teranule Survival. I will announce stuff,
probably on my Instagram first, more than anything, because that's
just where I like to be.
Speaker 1 (42:47):
Well, thank you so much for being here and talking
to me.
Speaker 3 (42:51):
Thank you.
Speaker 4 (42:51):
I'm slightly nervous for this interview to come out.
Speaker 1 (42:54):
Now I wouldn't be nervous. I mean, I think what
we've said is how fucking resilient you are and how
strong you are.
Speaker 3 (43:03):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (43:04):
And even with what you've been through, which I mean
most humans can't even imagine, you know, you still get
up almost every day and function and are there for
the good fight for the victims, well the survivors really.
Speaker 3 (43:20):
Yeah, but I've.
Speaker 4 (43:21):
Never really talked about all the drugs that I've done
in the past, so that I hope that doesn't make
me different from being like quote unquote quote unquote perfect victim.
Speaker 1 (43:33):
You know, I think it makes you human things. Thank
you for watching another episode of Intentionally Disturbing and I
hope you enjoyed getting to know Tara because she is
a badass with the kindest heart and I am lucky
to call her a friend. I'll see you next time.
Okay, you're here. My name is doctor Leslie, and this
is intentionally disturbing today. My guest is Tara Newall. Tara
is a very small, petite, blonde, bubbly young girl, and
I adore her. But Tara also stabbed the shit out
of somebody to protect herself in self defense. And we
(00:31):
are getting into that, but not just that. We're getting
into PTSD, what it means clinically and what it means
at a human level, as Tara has experienced ongoing traumas
in her life, what we would call complex PTSD, and
she is really really open.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
About talking about how that has affected her and has
especially brought down her ability to take care of herself
and see situations as dangerous, which has led her into
more dangerous situations.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
I hope you enjoy our conversation because I sure did. Allay,
you're here, Thank you for being here unintentionally disturbing. What
I want to do is dive into your story and
will you help me do that?
Speaker 3 (01:20):
Yes.
Speaker 4 (01:20):
So, I am a survivor of dirty John Meehan. I
took him down in self defense after he came after
me in a parking lot and attacked me and with
his own knife. I was able to get the knife
and actually attack him back and take his life in
(01:41):
self defense.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Amazing, amazing. So he's a psychopath con man married to
your mom, yes, and then came at you.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (01:53):
No, he checked a lot of the boxes on the
psychopathy checklist and he was cereal perpetrator. He went after
many many women. I am still uncovering women to this day.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
Really.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
Oh yeah, like thousands.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
Oh my god, yeah, amazing. Why did he go after
you that that night?
Speaker 4 (02:16):
Why you He had this mafia gangster mentality because he
told his dad told John that he grew up in
the Anestatia family and he came from that gangster family,
and so that was really his mentality. And then his mom.
He never had a great relationship with his mom. His
(02:38):
mom essentially hated him, and that's really where his hat
trade towards women kind of stemmed from.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
And then did he pick you out from your sisters?
Speaker 4 (02:49):
And yeah, no, he wanted he wanted like control over
my mom. He kind of had the perfect setup with
fine Nance's. He had the perfect setup with like her
trusting him, him, getting to go wherever, him going to
date many other women. But she didn't know about this,
(03:11):
but she trusted him, and I always had kind of
issues with him from date one. Even though I was
trying to get along with him. There was just so
many red flags that I was seen as an outsider
looking in.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
Oh. I mean the red flags were so obvious looking back,
but that's amazing. Yeah, not seen them.
Speaker 4 (03:34):
Yeah, well, you know, when you're in it, you're in
it and you're getting hit with all that oxytocin and
you're just in that love bubble.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
Oh my god. Okay, I'm so glad he's not with
us anymore. Okay, Okay. Obviously we've met before and hung
out before, but we talked about PTSD last time, and
I want to kind of of I want to use
this as an opportunity to educate the audience, but have
(04:06):
like a real conversation about PTSD because it's so different
for everyone, right, Like PTSD is not the same, Oh yeah,
for every person. So I'm curious, like, how how you
define it? What is PTSD to you? And then if
we can talk a little bit about you know, what
(04:26):
you do about it?
Speaker 4 (04:27):
Okay, yeah, PTSD post traumatic stress disorder. For me, I
have complex PTSD, which is you know, derived from childhood
and ongoing traumas that continuously kind of happen.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
Yeah, and so.
Speaker 4 (04:45):
That was like amplified with my trauma.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
But also.
Speaker 4 (04:52):
I was able to handle it because I was used
to trauma, if that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
Where I think that's a huge moment. Yeah, more trauma
actually makes you more resilient to trauma and then less
likely to flag the trauma and stop it and almost
invites bad things. Yeah, it's like a very weird cycle.
Speaker 4 (05:18):
Yeah, no, it is because if you say, if I
had this event and it was just honestly the only
bad thing that happened to me, I don't think I
would be having these conversations like I do. But instead
I had trauma that had happened, and those traumas were
(05:40):
bad and sexually assaulted as a child and stuff. And
it's funny because those memories actually didn't come out until
I was in EMDR processing my big trauma.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
The movement desensitization where your eyes are darting back and forth,
I probably we're tapping, but yeah, it does. It unlocks, uh,
it unlocks memories.
Speaker 4 (06:07):
Oh yeah, And at first I thought those memories were
false because you don't want to have those memories and
it's crazy because there was also this guy that created
this false memory syndrome, which now that's falsified because he
created it because his daughter was assaulted by him.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
Oh yes, okay, so I'm not familiar who is it.
Speaker 4 (06:31):
I forget his name, but it was the guy that
created the false memory syndrome, okay, and he created it
because of his daughter being I abused by him. And
that was all debunked and everything. I talked to Kimberly
Shannon Murphy. She is a sexual assault survivor by her
(06:52):
family members, and then she's a stunt woman. Oh yeah,
and she wrote this amazing book called Glimmers. But I
like talking to other survivors. I really got to kind
of debunk some stuff that are out there, you know,
because you can't just go find all the books. Sometimes
you have to talk to people and see them, you know,
(07:14):
hear the knowledge from them.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
Yeah. So it's helped you to hear from other people
about it. Okay, So EMDR brought up past things for you.
What's what's daily life like like when it comes to PTSD,
Like are you at a heightened level of vigilance? Are
you having flashbacks? Like? Is it okay?
Speaker 4 (07:36):
If I asked that, Yeah, no, okay, I'm just thinking
because some days are good, you know, some days I'm
great because I've done a lot of work on myself.
But then this year has been a crazy year. And
someone was telling me the other day how my Instagram
seems all over the place, and I'm like.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
Yeah, it's been a tough year.
Speaker 4 (07:59):
It's you know, I've dealt with a breakup and that
always brings up abandonment for me, and with abandonment, that's,
to be honest, my trigger of not wanting to be
here at times, and so going through those motions this year,
and then there's so much surrounding my mom and her
(08:22):
choosing John, and with my breakup this year, it was
like I was trying to say stuff and wasn't being heard,
and so it retriggered me back to my mom and
me telling her about John and being like, this person's
(08:43):
bad person. This person's bad person. And then it kind
of being turned on to me like you're having these issues,
like you're the one that's like the drama essentially, and
you know, things did play out where I ended up
being I'm having a moment of clarity now with my
(09:03):
past relationship.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
And the people that you know we're in it.
Speaker 4 (09:12):
And me kind of being right about like things with
that and having that support now and that.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
Can you tell me more about that? So there's an
epiphany that's kind of happening.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
Yeah. So like.
Speaker 4 (09:28):
I well, like I need to like not maybe say
to everyone that like this person's bad and like make
go into my fight mode over it.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
Instead.
Speaker 4 (09:41):
I need to like talk calmly, you know, see how
someone can listen to me, because when you're also in
that fight mode and your voice is at a couple
of different octaves up, you can't hear it because your
inner ear is also being like I don't want to
hear this.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Yeah. So now you're living at a higher level of
vigilance and things are more easily bringing you up to
a higher level.
Speaker 4 (10:13):
Yes, okay, yes, and you know with hypervigilance with the
trauma like makes you like super heightened with everything.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (10:23):
And I don't need to tell you this because you're
you know, you know it, but it's uh, it makes
you live in that fighter flight all the time. Yeah,
And so I really have to work on getting back
to homeostasis. And I am lucky where I only have
flashbacks at certain times where if I go through all
(10:45):
my story, like in January, I had a flashback that
I literally had blood in my.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
Hair for three days.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
Oh, it was like an image.
Speaker 4 (10:56):
Yes, well, like just because I I dyed my hair red.
And then that triggered me because I in the hospital,
you don't take a shower really or anything. So when
you get out of the shower, I took a shower
and then there's just that scene of blood coming down
(11:19):
into the train. Yeah, so I'd like I had a
flashback about that, And it's funny how just different parts
of my story when I talk about it, we'll bring
it up.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
And you don't really get to choose when a flashback comes, right,
it just enters and takes over, and then you're on
pause or freeze.
Speaker 4 (11:40):
Yeah, Like and I feel like I'm living in a
horror movie.
Speaker 3 (11:43):
Sometimes you are.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
You did, Yeah, but you've also taken it and you're
using it to help people, right, Like to me, that's
the most healing way to get through a trauma like that.
Speaker 4 (11:59):
Yeah, And that's like like the post progression part of
it and moving forward is how am I using this
trauma to fuel my life and fuel moving forward?
Speaker 1 (12:12):
Yeah, we're going to take a quick break and we'll
be right back. So I want to jump back to
a conversation we had a few weeks back about a therapist.
Oh my gosh, can we talk about it a little bit? Okay? So,
(12:32):
I mean, anyone with PTSD should go to therapy, right,
there's a tons there's a ton of different therapies, and
you think if you go to a therapist who's maybe
in a richer town who charges more, that they're going
to be better. But you had a different experience, yes, okay,
So can you kind of share, you know, what's your
(12:54):
therapy journey been for PTSD and then you know the
recent odd man that you encountered.
Speaker 4 (13:03):
Oh my gosh, okay, So I've been in therapy since
I was seven years old, starting from my parents' divorce
to like process around that, and then really stopped therapy.
I probably did it for like a few years, and
then went back when I got into my like adult
(13:26):
relationship when I was twenty four, actually right before, I know,
like twenty two twenty two.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Is this the guy that hit you with a car?
Speaker 3 (13:39):
No, I didn't go to therapy for that. I should have.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
I don't mean to laugh, but yeah, maybe you should have.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
Okay, maybe I should have for.
Speaker 4 (13:48):
That, but okay, actually no, I went back to therapy
when I was fifteen, okay, and I was seeing this person,
also a psychiatrist, and he was prescribed. He also diagnosed
me with bipolar, like minimal minimal bipolar, which I have
(14:08):
been to several several therapists since who have said that
it's not bipolar, it's complex PTSD.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
Which is common the misdiagnosis.
Speaker 4 (14:19):
Yes, but get what he put me on. He put
me on ten milligrams lexipro h, three hundred milligrams will abrutrin,
and two hundred milligrams topamax. Okay, so that's a heavy cocktail.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
Yeah, and I wore a diagnosis that wasn't accurate, yes,
okay mm hm.
Speaker 4 (14:43):
And I felt I felt okay because I was living
in dissociated like drug land. But then there would be
times where I would literally talk and the words would
be different from what my brain was trying to say.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
That must have been really uncomfortable, yeah, but like so disorienting.
Yeah okay.
Speaker 4 (15:08):
And so I stayed on those meds for until I
was around like twenty two.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
Oh wow, yeah, that's a long time.
Speaker 4 (15:17):
Yeah, okay, and I probably, like I did date someone
here and there that was an addict, and so I
we probably mixed my stuff.
Speaker 3 (15:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (15:29):
And I really liked xanx because you know, xanx it's
a fun way to relax.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
But yeah, I think it's an amazing drug, but it's
so addictive, yeah, because it's too good.
Speaker 4 (15:42):
Yeah, and so I you know, I mixed it probably
with xan x and then probably.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
Abused drugs a little bit.
Speaker 4 (15:53):
Uh probably, probably I didn't, and it was also because
I was with an addict.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
Yeah, and what kind of drugs I never I've never
used like cool ones.
Speaker 3 (16:06):
I'm oh my gosh, Okay.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
I tried ecstasy once and it was not good.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
But that's it. See.
Speaker 4 (16:16):
I would do ecstasy, but I felt like I wouldn't
feel it really. Yeah, So that probably explained like I
probably was. And this is like a part of my
life where like I don't believe in that. I don't
do that anymore whatsoever, Like I have it.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
Nears well it's like a self medicating yeah thing too. Yeah,
I mean you and it sounds like even self medicating
the medication. Yeah, right, so just like trying to shut
it off in some way, change it.
Speaker 4 (16:49):
Yeah, and I think I was just trying to cope
with all these toxic relationships, all this apparently bipolar disorder
when it was COMPLEXTSD, and then getting retraumatized by these
guys because that then I was with the guy that
hit me with a car, And how I kind of
(17:10):
survived that was I was okay. So I did take
ecstasy during that time, but not that night. That was
more so for a rave thing, the Xan's bars more so.
And then also stars like the footballs, like the green
at the green bars, the yellow.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
Bar twenty milligrams or something like the massive ones or
yes damn yes, Okay, so you are out of your
mind at times? Yeah, for a good reason.
Speaker 4 (17:42):
Yeah, yeah, and then so much then I did whip its.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
If you're a child and you're listening, get the fuck
off this network right now.
Speaker 4 (17:52):
Okay, sorry, but I don't recommend anyone doing that. I
was just just in a terrible phase of my life. Yeah,
and with a drug drug addict who hit me with
a car later.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
Yeah, so how did that play out? He's just like
there you are a room or no, I'm.
Speaker 4 (18:14):
Just telling you all my darkest stories in my life,
right now, and I've never talked about this.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
It's a safe place, so it's okay, the whole world
will hear it, yes, okay, okay, So wait, but how
do you get hit by a car? Like, because I
want to go into this your other therapy story, but like,
what what kind of man hit somebody with a car?
That's wild.
Speaker 4 (18:38):
I was a naive young girl doing a lot of
dumb things looking for attention.
Speaker 3 (18:44):
Just have to say that, and.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
As many of us.
Speaker 3 (18:48):
Yeah, and I went with.
Speaker 4 (18:53):
This guy to the guy that I was seeing kind
of and well, we were always together, but we were never.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
Like boyfriend and girlfriend.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (19:05):
It was a highly, highly toxic relationship. And one night
he was like, I want to go pick up my
friend and take her to rehab.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
Oh that's nice.
Speaker 3 (19:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (19:18):
So I was like, okay, let's go do it. And
we go and pick her up. We get there and
he's like, I'm gonna go upstairs and get her while
you guys just wait in the car. So we're all
waiting in the car and we're just waiting forever hmmm
(19:38):
mm hm.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
And he comes. Oh.
Speaker 4 (19:41):
He also told me beforehand, Tara, she may be a
little bit jealous and stuff. So try to be really
nice to her, try not to provoke her. I think
he was sleeping with her, and he was definitely doing
math with her.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
Well you're in the car, yeah, but we.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
Didn't know because we didn't do math. That was where
we through the line. We were like, no meth for us,
no heroine, We're good.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
Okay, at least there's a line. Okay. Yeah, So you
fucks the woman. And then he comes back.
Speaker 4 (20:11):
Yes, into the car with her. She has her stuff,
and she does start to get bitchy with me, and
I'm just like trying to brush it off, trying to
brush it off. We're in my car. We're driving to
my house to get to his car that's there, well,
his dad's car that's there. And we are driving there
(20:35):
and I am scared of heights, like really scared of heights.
So I start like panicking a bit, and then he
just shoves pills in my mouth. Oh and then I
keep on panicking and he like shoves more, and I'm
probably Xanax in Somas.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
Okay, And I'm just like it's so not a good scene.
Speaker 4 (21:02):
No no, And it's like he's doing it forcefully too,
and I'm just appeasing and just okay, yeah, going with it,
and then it comes to a point where we get
to my house and then at one point the girl
(21:26):
wants to fight me.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
Like physically fight you.
Speaker 4 (21:31):
Yes, okay, And at this time I'm a little amped up,
and I'm just like okay, like okay, why not, and
I'm and then I'm just getting into it, not physically
because the guys are like kind of holding us back,
and then they literally get into his car and then
(21:53):
I'm honestly confused by the whole situation. I'm like, how
was this girl trying to fight me? I was just
trying to talk, like I don't know what happened, and
we're also we used my car to go like to
like do all of this, and it's just like, yeah,
I'm so confused by the situation, and why is he
also leaving me?
Speaker 1 (22:16):
Like now, well, and you're on drugs, so not no
clear thinking?
Speaker 4 (22:23):
Yeah, okay, no clear thinking. And so I like stepped
off to the side of like his car and I'm
trying to like be like why aren't you, like why
aren't we talking? And then he takes off and then
he hits me on the side with the knee and
then I fall back and I hit the grass, which
(22:43):
is in my benefit too.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
And then.
Speaker 4 (22:48):
Because of my adrenaline everything, and because I was on
so mus yeah, because the gar hit me, like my
body was actually more relaxed.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
Yeah, so that where to my benefit too.
Speaker 4 (23:02):
And I get in my car and I like try
to chase after him, like he also stole my phone too. Oh,
that's actually why I was trying to. I was trying
to get my phone back and he wouldn't give it,
so he.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
Went off in another car. And then you went after him, yeah,
after he had hit you with his car.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
Yes, okay. And then I get to his house and.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
What do you like, Superwoman? This is okay like Avengers
right now?
Speaker 4 (23:31):
I like, it's the adrenaline. And then I'm like, I
can't believe. He's stolen my phone several times before, and
I would always know it was him, but he would
gaslight me and then I would be like, I don't know,
but this time it was like he stole my phone.
He stole my phone. I'm going to get my phone back.
And then so I tried to get my phone back
(23:54):
and try to find him, and I don't know why
I didn't just call the cops. But I was like,
in my head, I was like, he loves me. He
loves me, he like, and I think he's on drugs,
Like I just want him to get help, even though
I should be the one getting help right now.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
Yeah, but that's the that's the codependence, right, I mean,
that's a perfect topic topic for therapy.
Speaker 4 (24:23):
Yeah yeah, Okay, So.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
Then you go and see a therapist who makes you
run across the street.
Speaker 3 (24:32):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 4 (24:33):
So several years later, I.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
Really it back to this another trauma, yes, of somebody
who should be protecting you.
Speaker 4 (24:43):
Yes, And it's this I think me being uber trusting,
trying to give people the benefit of the doubt. And
then I meet this therapist. He's actually the therapist for
all my family members, like my mom, my sister, my
(25:05):
sister's boyfriend. And that's also kind of a big no.
No is like, no therapist should have the whole family.
He probably gives me too much information about my mom.
Speaker 3 (25:19):
And sister too.
Speaker 4 (25:21):
Okay, so this guy, Okay, so this is our third
session now. But when I went in he I was
waiting for a minute because he put two of his
clients to sleep and amdr and they were taking naps.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
So and maybe okay, So I've I trained in AMDR.
No one ever, so and just to explain amdr's I
movement desensitization, so reprocessing. So sleeping patients in the rooms,
yeah I've I'm shocked.
Speaker 3 (26:02):
Yeah, no, me too. I was a little weirded out
by that.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
And how did he justify it?
Speaker 4 (26:07):
That they were like tired and he didn't want them
to drive, So.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
The rooms aren't available, so you can't have your therapy session.
Speaker 3 (26:15):
So we go on.
Speaker 4 (26:17):
He asked if I'm okay with going outside the office.
So we go on a walk and he has me
put my person inside the cupboard. But at first he
has me promised me that I should freeze my eggs.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
What the fuck?
Speaker 4 (26:35):
And I'm like, well, I'm thinking about doing it anyway,
so sure.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
Wait, let's go for a walk. There are two patients
passed out in my rooms that are full freeze your
eggs and leave your purse.
Speaker 4 (26:48):
Yes, So I shake him on it, and then afterwards
he tells me that I should kick him in the balls.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
Wait, what do you mean you shake him on it?
Speaker 3 (26:59):
Like a shake him on freezing my eggs? Because I'm like,
I don't know what to do. Okay, and I've already
been thinking, oh, you shake hands.
Speaker 4 (27:05):
Yeah, I'm freezing my eggs.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
I'm sorry, that's so strange. Okay, so you shake hands,
you promised to freeze your eggs.
Speaker 4 (27:15):
And then he tells me to kick him in the
balls and do you know?
Speaker 1 (27:19):
Okay, no, and was he smirking.
Speaker 4 (27:22):
I was kind of like I did a nervous, like
laughing giggle because I didn't know how to take what
he just said.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
Okay, and then okay, he had some big balls then.
Speaker 4 (27:32):
Yeah, and then we go on a walk, Oh my gosh.
And then we're going he asked if I want to
go to Roger's Gardens and I'm like, sure, but I
don't have money or any.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
Purse, your security blanket.
Speaker 4 (27:46):
Yeah, and then so we head over there. But on
the walk, he's, oh, he's talking a lot about himself. Yeah,
he was talking a lot about himself and also what
I need to do.
Speaker 3 (28:02):
He also.
Speaker 4 (28:04):
Mentioned like what he's trying to also tell me that
he wants me to study under him.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
Oh in what way physically?
Speaker 4 (28:14):
He's I'm sure he wishes, but as like, because I
wanted to do emdr with people. Okay, So he says
he would train me and he has some friends that
would train me and stuff as well.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
Okay, and so we're just gonna make a note of
lots of red flags, yes, okay.
Speaker 4 (28:37):
And then he also tells me he's like, oh, why,
like why do you have your jacket on? And I
like to have my jacket on sometimes for security reasons.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
And he shouldn't be talking about your outfit.
Speaker 4 (28:50):
Yeah, And then he tells me, oh, you take off
your jacket and I say no, I like it on.
And then somehow it comes up he grabs my hand
or something, and then I'm like, oh, I'm sweaty, akay,
I'm nervous, and then he tells me it's okay.
Speaker 3 (29:12):
I like sweaty what? Yes? And then we walk some more.
Speaker 4 (29:21):
I am wearing a dress that does have like great cleavage,
like it's a great first date dress. But that's another
reason why I'm wanting to keep on my jacket. And
then he tells me that I'm sexy.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
Oh yeah, okay, And you're paying for this session.
Speaker 4 (29:40):
Well I called back because I didn't want to pay
for it, but you were.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
The intention was that this was an actual booked session,
Yes with a doctor.
Speaker 4 (29:49):
Yes, okay, yes, and then I uh, he tells me
about his marital problems with his wife.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
Great, great, he's married, okay.
Speaker 4 (29:59):
Yeah, and I was I just tried to say some
comforting words to him.
Speaker 1 (30:04):
Oh okay, so you're taking care of them.
Speaker 3 (30:06):
Yeah, okay.
Speaker 4 (30:07):
And then we go to Roger's Garden and he literally
runs across the street. Oh, and I'm like.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
With someone who's been hit by a car.
Speaker 4 (30:16):
Yeah, And I don't think he's ever known the hit
by the car part, but still.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
But he sure as fuck would have been aware of
your hesitation.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (30:26):
And it's across Mike like MacArthur, Yes, on that busy
street and so.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
Which is like six lanes.
Speaker 4 (30:35):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, And I run across hit because I
run after him because I'm like, what do I do?
And then we make it to Rogers Gardens and then
we sit in the bar area and then he orders
a bunch of food and then he just like eats
(30:56):
some eats some.
Speaker 1 (30:59):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (31:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (31:00):
And during this time, too, my mom is like kind
of like transitioning me to like being more on my
own financially. So he also knows that and he's like,
I got you.
Speaker 1 (31:17):
Okay, yeah, wow, that's so bizarre. I okay, So there
are so many red flags, and your gut was telling
you all along, what the fuck? What the fuck? So
what the what the fuck?
Speaker 3 (31:37):
Oh? And he also told me not to tell anyone.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
Oh my god, you were describing so many Catholic priests
that I know.
Speaker 3 (31:44):
And then that's funny because they work in true crime too.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
What are some of the red flags that we can
teach women listeners that that in that process they should
have stopped and what they should have done.
Speaker 4 (32:00):
Well, it's hard when you're in that situation, and there's
also that power dynamic. Yeah, and you don't expect this
to happen in therapy. So I think I was in
a state of shock the whole time, but I still
live in the peasing. And I confronted him afterwards because
(32:20):
I told him that what happened to me is considered
grooming behavior, and I told him that was not okay
with me. I told his assistant. His assistant stopped working
for him shortly after.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
Oh good for her, uh huh, And.
Speaker 4 (32:37):
I don't he told me that, like, she stopped working
for him because she's moving on with her own life.
But I can only assume otherwise because she told me
that that was not okay, and also she canceled all
his sessions after our session because she could tell something
was not right.
Speaker 1 (32:57):
Oh wow.
Speaker 4 (32:58):
He also apparently blamed it on him not getting sleep,
and he told me he was trying to test me
because I am such a big appeaser. And then he
offered me free therapy from there.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
On out to shut you up.
Speaker 4 (33:17):
Well, and I honestly could use free therapy, but in
my I was like, I'm never going back to him.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
I've never heard of this before in my twenty years
in this field. Ever. Like, there are so many moments
that are unethical and bizarre, and the onus is not
on you as a client to call out the red flags,
right because the therapist should never be putting them putting
(33:47):
a client in that position. Yeah, but I mean, god,
my brain right away. First, sleeping patients, that's weird, right, Yeah,
talking about your eggs, that's weird. Yeah, a handshake, touching
you without asking to touch you is weird.
Speaker 3 (34:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:07):
Putting your purse down.
Speaker 3 (34:09):
Into a lock cupboard. Who had the key? He did?
Speaker 4 (34:17):
And then I also met one of his other clients
and she told me how she's been seeing him for
years and how he sees all her family members, and
I was interesting, let me ask more questions.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
Hoop's commercial time. Wow. So looking back on that now,
I mean, what do you do with that?
Speaker 3 (34:42):
Well?
Speaker 4 (34:43):
I talked to my therapist that my mom wanted me
to switch from her to this one because she said
that I wasn't healing. And I went through a traumatic
event in two thousand sixteen. As you are aware of,
it takes a while to heal from that.
Speaker 1 (35:04):
If ever, right, how do you define healing?
Speaker 4 (35:07):
Yeah, and there are going to be days where I'm
not able to function. There's gonna be days where like
going out into public just triggers me. Yeah, and I'm
working on it. I'm working on it so much. But
it sucks when people are like, you need to be healed,
(35:28):
and so try someone else, and then that like retraumatizes
you because you're thinking, Okay, he's healing all my family members,
he's healing other people. But then he treats me differently
because I am sometimes a narcissist dream.
Speaker 1 (35:52):
So you feel like you're almost blaming yourself. I don't know, no, no, no, no, no.
He sounds very predatory.
Speaker 3 (36:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
Well, I like and you saw it coming. You were
in it in the moment, but also you were so
gas lit and in a fog because of what you've
endured that you can't find the voice to speak out
or the confidence or I don't know what. You can't
show up to the situation as you because there's so
(36:26):
much going on.
Speaker 4 (36:27):
Yeah, and he do use like what I wanted most,
Like I wanted to help other people and do EMDR
for other people, but I don't want to do the schooling.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
So you kind of also let yourself endure that because
the potential gain of having him as a mentor.
Speaker 3 (36:45):
Yes, and then it's just God.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
We're like in the world of Sean Colmes right now.
This is this is the problem with the world right now,
is that people abuse authority because the underlings want to
want the teaching, want the mentorship, want the help.
Speaker 4 (37:05):
Yeah, and they use like that thing that you want.
Speaker 1 (37:08):
Most, Yeah, what is the thing that you want most
to help other people? Yeah? What does it look like?
Speaker 4 (37:16):
It looks like a bunch of people having awareness about
their trauma, having awareness about their triggers, having awareness about
like what is right and what is wrong. And it's
not so black and white in a sense. But sometimes
it is.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
And maybe giving people permission to fail to not do
it right all the time. Yeah, and two steps forward,
one step back is a million steps forward, a million
steps back, like letting them just be them.
Speaker 4 (37:50):
Yeah, Like it's just like I've had so many people
be like, you need to get to this place, you
need to do this, you need to be here, you
should be making this money. And I'm like, I am
where I am, and that's okay.
Speaker 1 (38:09):
That was a question I had, like lingering in my
mind about money. How do you feel about the true
crime community making money off you?
Speaker 3 (38:21):
It's gross.
Speaker 1 (38:22):
True crime is the largest what the largest podcasts, I
don't know what you call it. I'm new to this.
The largest media money making the area of podcasting right now.
Speaker 3 (38:34):
Yeah. No, Well it's because.
Speaker 4 (38:37):
I think what draws us in to what killers is
the same reasons sometimes why we end up with them.
And I think that so many people don't know what
abuse is.
Speaker 1 (38:55):
Oh, psychological, emotional, physical, definitely, Like.
Speaker 3 (39:00):
With my family, like.
Speaker 4 (39:05):
I was normalized to see murder as something you should forgive,
and it's the most grotesque act anyone could do. I mean,
I had to take a life because someone was trying
to take mine. But to go after someone, to plan
(39:27):
and plot and to take that person's life like that
is the most evil you can do.
Speaker 1 (39:35):
So how do you? I mean, I sit with you now,
and you have this energy and you're bubbly and you're
lovely and you're a killer, and we giggle. How does this?
How do we piece this together?
Speaker 3 (39:54):
How do you?
Speaker 1 (39:56):
How have you recovered to the point of still being you?
Of everything?
Speaker 4 (40:01):
I did meet his family at first, and because of
my situation with the guy hitting me with a car
when he died, it gave me more clarity to how
John's survivors felt. Oh, because the guy that hit me
(40:25):
with the car to up until he died, he was
sending messages to different media outlets. He was harassing me
on Instagram and other platforms.
Speaker 2 (40:38):
And.
Speaker 4 (40:40):
I felt like I'm never going to get away from him.
And when he died, it was like I don't have
to look over my back anymore.
Speaker 1 (40:53):
So there is a welcome side to death.
Speaker 3 (40:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:58):
For mental health, yeah too.
Speaker 4 (41:01):
And it's funny, Well it's not really funny, but it's
weird how people are like, oh, don't speak ill of
the dead.
Speaker 3 (41:09):
You can speak ill of whoever you.
Speaker 4 (41:10):
Want to speak. If they were an abuser to you.
Speaker 3 (41:14):
Call it out.
Speaker 4 (41:15):
Don't be like, oh, rest in peace. You could call
it out when they're dead, you could call it out whenever.
You know, you just have to be careful of defamation
for yourself and make sure what you're saying is not falsified.
Speaker 1 (41:28):
You've been through so much. You've been through so much,
Like I think people would love to hear how you
maintain hope. You know, how you maintain that forward movement
in future.
Speaker 3 (41:44):
Well, I have goals, Yeah, tell me your goals. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (41:48):
So I'm working on my own documentary right now. Oh really, okay, yes,
so I'm gonna put the story to rest that way,
and then I just want to help other survivors get
out their stories. So I'm working on another documentary with
another survivor, yeah, and then also helping other survivors produce
their podcast gat guests. I'm a booker as well. I
(42:13):
have a podcasting course that teaches you how to do
anything and everything, and we also focus on the ethics
of true crime too.
Speaker 1 (42:22):
Oh wow, yeah, the ethics of true crime. Yes, it's
actually so needed. It is an area that we need
in this true crime world.
Speaker 3 (42:32):
Thank you.
Speaker 4 (42:33):
Yeah, do you have a website, Yes, so you could
go to my website, Teranule Survival. I will announce stuff,
probably on my Instagram first, more than anything, because that's
just where I like to be.
Speaker 1 (42:47):
Well, thank you so much for being here and talking
to me.
Speaker 3 (42:51):
Thank you.
Speaker 4 (42:51):
I'm slightly nervous for this interview to come out.
Speaker 1 (42:54):
Now I wouldn't be nervous. I mean, I think what
we've said is how fucking resilient you are and how
strong you are.
Speaker 3 (43:03):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (43:04):
And even with what you've been through, which I mean
most humans can't even imagine, you know, you still get
up almost every day and function and are there for
the good fight for the victims, well the survivors really.
Speaker 3 (43:20):
Yeah, but I've.
Speaker 4 (43:21):
Never really talked about all the drugs that I've done
in the past, so that I hope that doesn't make
me different from being like quote unquote quote unquote perfect victim.
Speaker 1 (43:33):
You know, I think it makes you human things. Thank
you for watching another episode of Intentionally Disturbing and I
hope you enjoyed getting to know Tara because she is
a badass with the kindest heart and I am lucky
to call her a friend. I'll see you next time.
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