Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 56: Service Poodle - My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
Nay, Hello, and welcome to Rewind with Karen and Georgia.

Speaker 2 (00:20):
Every Wednesday, we recap our old shows with all new
commentary and updates and insights.

Speaker 1 (00:25):
Today we're recapping episode fifty six, which we named Service Poodle.

Speaker 2 (00:30):
Of course, of course we had to, so this episode
came out on February fifteenth, Happy Valentine's Day, twenty seventeen.

Speaker 1 (00:39):
Let's get into the intro of episode fifty six.

Speaker 2 (00:47):
Hi, Hey, what's going on? Oh? Nothing? How are you?

Speaker 1 (00:54):
Oh?

Speaker 3 (00:54):
Pretty good?

Speaker 1 (00:58):
Hey, this is my favorite murder. That's Karen, that's right,
That's Georgia, that's right.

Speaker 2 (01:04):
And this is a podcast where we talk to you
about murders that have happened. What's going on? Well? The
thing that people keep on tweeting to us? And when
I say, keep on and certainly I want to communicate
with people, and I certainly want to know things when
it's breaking news. Do I want to know things three

(01:24):
hundred times from breaking news? Probably not. Vincent Lee, the
man from the bus that killed that boy that was
sitting next to him because he thought he was a demon.

Speaker 1 (01:37):
In our Cannibal episode, and it was the most horrifying story.
Cannibal or not, and.

Speaker 2 (01:43):
It seemed to be that the horrifying details got lost
in the fact that I don't know Canadian geography very well.
That's really what people got up in arms about. That's
what people are angry about.

Speaker 1 (01:53):
Listen. I tried to correct my saying of Woosta, and
apparently I was wrong again.

Speaker 2 (01:59):
Listen. I mean, look, it's I feel like we might
be making mistake even acknowledging anything at this point. But uh,
that man Vincent Lee has now been entirely released. How
the fuck it's how Canada does it? How the fuck
it's they've decided that he is rehabilitated and that he

(02:20):
it is going to go free. It's it's there. It's
the way their system is set up. You know.

Speaker 1 (02:25):
What's interesting is that instead of having a like like,
there's a parole board of people who were I don't
know if they're voted or whatever the fuck, but there's
a parole board that decides if people stay or go.
Why isn't that also a jury of our peers who
are like, hell no, I don't want that guy live
in next door to me.

Speaker 2 (02:44):
Well, because I think that's the given. I think that
if you ask anybody, do you want a criminal out
in society, it's the answer is no, lock them up forever.
But I think the idea is if you're if you
are trying to aim for rehabilitation, especially with this guy
who was a complete schizophrenic who just didn't take his meds.

(03:04):
He did not know where he was. He honestly believed
a demon was sitting next to him. None of that,
of course, is an excuse or makes anything okay, especially
for that family, But that's really what was going on
with him. Now that he's on meds, that's not the
person that he is.

Speaker 1 (03:19):
Yeah, but there's no assurance that he's going to keep
taking his meds.

Speaker 2 (03:22):
Right There's also no assurance that you won't kill me
right now. I think that the overall discussion of what
is jail four and what is rehabilitation for real, because
I think that anybody who feels unsafe wants the answer
to be lock them up forever, we never see them again.

(03:45):
It's you know, I mean, we have gotten so many
emails and everybody's a response is like, what the fuck,
what the fuck, what the fuck? But there are tons
of articles about the way Canadian like the Canadian justice
system works, and that that is the goal is not
locked them up and you never see them again. And
because of that, there's a lot of people that are

(04:07):
super pissed off about it. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (04:10):
I mean that's not our goal here either. But I
was out on Saturday night with events. We got an
uber home by a retired cop who was a policeman
in Compton for years. It was so fucking cool, and
had his service poodle with him, who was the sweetest

(04:30):
fucking dog. They're just like Saturn Elapse the whole time.
So he drops us off a Del Taco you know, oh,
which is like, I mean, we didn't even ask. Was like,
we were like and he was like, I can't go
further than this. We're like all right, fine, and so
Vincent I get Del Taco and we're heading home and
we're walking across the street and someone pulls over and

(04:52):
rolls their window down and I was like, oh fuck
and he and it's just some random dude by himself,
you know, like a midnight an eales stay sexy.

Speaker 2 (05:04):
That's crazy, I know.

Speaker 1 (05:06):
I mean I had a toxic Masculinity shirt on, so
I don't know if he knew it was me or
he's like, this.

Speaker 2 (05:10):
Is my favorite murder yeah, girl, he's just jouting you out.
He's just like.

Speaker 1 (05:13):
Chatting at me.

Speaker 2 (05:16):
Guy again, screamed at him. Now, that's hilarious to me
because I think you and I talked about that where
you were like, is it nerdy to wear your own
shirt rights? And you clearly made that decision.

Speaker 1 (05:27):
I made that decision on that shirt because it's a
it's a it's a it's a like protest message and
it says my favorite murder very small on it, and
it looked really good at me.

Speaker 2 (05:41):
I love that shirt. Which one did you get? Well?

Speaker 1 (05:43):
All right, Actually, it's funny to ask that this is
not a setup. I got the just the regular unisex
T shirt, so I small, And the next day I
emailed our fucking awesome girl at the print full Kirsten,
and was like, can we get this in women's shirts
as well? Because that didn't fit me very well? Well,
you know how like you want certain shirts to fit
it well. So we now have lady's shirts instead of

(06:04):
just unisex. Oh oh cool, Yeah cool, I like it.

Speaker 2 (06:08):
I like that you're personally walking the message around.

Speaker 1 (06:10):
Yeah, that's fun.

Speaker 2 (06:11):
That felt pretty cool. Okay we are back.

Speaker 1 (06:17):
Wow, do you have an update? Karen on Bencent Lee.

Speaker 2 (06:20):
There are updates. He's now living under a different name.
He's been free since twenty seventeen without further incident. He
was found not criminally responsible for murdering Tim McClain on
that Greyhound bus. The mother of Tim McClain, Carold Delhi,
has been vocal about being unhappy with Lee's release. She

(06:41):
says that's wrong and should never be. In a statement
to APTN News, she says, Vince Lee committed one of
the most horrific murders in Canadian history and has faded
back into society. My son is still dead end quote,
which is so sad and true. I mean, like it
is separate from the context, just when it stands alone.

(07:04):
It is just one of the most horrible things you
could hear about. Yeah, the whole story is horrifying. I
can't imagine living through that. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (07:12):
I had totally forgotten about that uber ride. I took
with two great things, a service poodle yes and an
ex cop right, like wow, right, funk it? And then
I got yelled at I love it or like, yelled too,
yelled around.

Speaker 2 (07:27):
Yelled for, yelled for.

Speaker 1 (07:29):
That's it a positive, that's a positive.

Speaker 2 (07:32):
Yeah, the positive. I mean, there's something about going over
these old episodes and it is almost like a diary
we didn't keep, and like, think you about it, because
at first it was just like, oh God, we fucked
so many things up, and we did things wrong, and
what these things we said that we wish we never
said blah blah blah. But then it's like, but then
you have these little nuggets of life of what we

(07:53):
were just kind of doing in the day to day
that yeah, you probably never would have remembered a specific
uber ride, but now you do.

Speaker 1 (08:01):
And that's so funny and true because like, yeah, I
never write a diary. I always wish I had, but
I should have started ten years ago. But this is
kind of that, and it's exciting because we you and
I know now that our lives are about to change
so drastically, so and so insanely. They already have at
this point Episode fifty six changed big time, but even

(08:22):
more so, like we don't know what's coming.

Speaker 2 (08:26):
I think that might be a part of it too,
looking back, there's a piece of it where we don't
know totally. Uh, I don't know. It's so it's so wild.

Speaker 1 (08:35):
It is it is like it it only got like
bigger from here. I feel like the I feel like
the peak was like twenty eighteen through twenty twenty, when
life was just like bananas, like this is this can't
be really happening.

Speaker 2 (08:48):
Let's ride this wow, you know, like, let's do three
cities a weekend on.

Speaker 1 (08:53):
Tour and write a book. Let's yeah, I do the podcast.
And that's just so many little things. That's so many things.
YEAHZ all right.

Speaker 2 (09:02):
Okay, now let's get into Georgia's story about Darley Rudier. Okay.

Speaker 1 (09:13):
First, So, on June sixth, nineteen ninety six, at two
thirty one AM, nine one one, dispatchers in Rolette, Texas,
which is a suburb east of Dallas, receives a call
from Darley uh rote air. She's panicked, and she tells
the operator that her home had been broken into and

(09:35):
then a stranger had attacked herself and her two sons,
Devin and Damon, who were five and six. Well, they
were asleep on the couch and they had The person
who broke in had stabbed the boys multiple times and
slit her throat. So Devin was stabbed twice in the
chest with a ton of force, and Damon was stabbed

(09:56):
half a dozen or more times in the back and
Darley the mom who was sleeping downstairs with the kids,
so her throat was slashed and she had a bunch
of other wounds. Darley's husband and the father of the
two boys, he was asleep upstairs in bed at the
time with their seven month old baby boy. The two

(10:18):
boys ended up dying while Darley was treated at the
hospital and released two days later. She had two slice
wounds in her right fore arm and one on her
left shoulder, and her throat had been cut, and the
doctor said she survived only because the knife stopped two
millimeters short of her carotid artery, So not it doesn't

(10:38):
seem like a defensive wound or a self inflicted woman, because.

Speaker 2 (10:42):
She'd be going right up to the verge if that
was self inflicted, to be insane exactly.

Speaker 1 (10:47):
And then and then the necklace she was wearing had
to be surgically removed from the wound, so it's kind
of the only reason it didn't go through the croda lotteries.
Her own necklace saved pretty much like when they cut
they cut the necklace in maybe it would have gone deeper.

Speaker 2 (11:01):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (11:02):
Yeah, So Darley, who's twenty six at the time, said
that she's fell asleep on the couch with the boys
and the reason she was leaping downstairs with them is
that she was a light sleeper. The baby had been
waking her up often, and as she sleeping on the couch,
she's awakened by Damon's cries, screaming, mommy, mommy. And then

(11:22):
she saw a man moving through the kitchen and followed
him as he went towards the garage, and when she
got to the utility room, she saw a knife and
picked it up, and only then, she said, did she
return to Devin and Damon and realized that she had
been stabbed as well. Her husband, Darren, comes downstairs after
hearing Darley cry and scream and begins administering CPR to Devan,

(11:49):
and by then the whoever it was had disappeared, so
Darren never saw him. And at the scene, the police
find a window screen in the garage has been cut,
but the windowsill is undisturbed, like all the dust and
dirts still there, so no one really jumped out of
it were in through it, and the knife that was

(12:09):
used came from inside the house. But also there was
a sock with the boy's blood on it dropped a
few houses down on the sidewalk, and a few days
after leaving the hospital, Darley shows up at the police
station with dark bruises all over her arms, saying that
they had come from attack, but the doctors who examined
her said that the bruises were too fresh to haven't

(12:31):
been inflicted on the night of the attacks. And they
say that her wounds are self inflicted. But I saw them,
and it is like a full bruise from her shoulder
down to her wrists. Like it's not just a couple
of little light bruises, it's fucking half of her arm
is a gnarly bruise.

Speaker 2 (12:49):
Yeah, you're completely convinced she didn't do it to herself.
I don't know that.

Speaker 1 (12:53):
Oh yes, yes, I don't know how you would have
done that to yourself.

Speaker 3 (12:57):
Right.

Speaker 1 (12:57):
But eight days later, on what would have been Devin's
seventh birthday, but he died, the family goes to the cemetery,
family and friends and apparently they're having a ceremony to
honor Devin because it's his birthday, And there's a whole
two hour you know thing of them, you know, crying

(13:18):
and having a whole ceremony and it being a sad thing.
But then the news put the only the only part
the news put on the on as footage was when
they're having a birthday celebration following the ceremony, in which
Darley is singing, is laughing and sprang silly string on

(13:38):
the graves and singing her happy birthday. Remember that fucking
video footage. And everyone was like, what in the fucking fuck.

Speaker 2 (13:43):
The silly string is like, yeah, I'll never forget it.

Speaker 1 (13:46):
She's spraying it at the grave. It's not even like
up in the air, I mean, and whatever. It's she's
chewing gum and she's laughing, and I don't care if
you fucking had a ceremony before that and you're crying.
It's fucking weird. And she and she's just creepy. And
so four days later she's charged with capital murder.

Speaker 2 (14:11):
Wait, the one who cut her own throat? Huh? I
mean whose throat was cut?

Speaker 1 (14:16):
Throat was cut so deep closely that she almost almost
cut her two centimeters away from her CROs millimeters. I
don't know, crazy, Yeah, she's arrested for capital murder. The
crime scene consultant says that the evidence suggests the crime
had the crime scene had been staged, So the prosecution

(14:37):
suggests that that Rote air murder her sons because of
the family's financial difficulties as well as postpartum depression from
her seven month old child. She had never been convicted
of anything, she had never shown abuse towards the kid,
and didn't have any mental illness apparently they described But

(14:59):
they described her as a pampered, materialistic woman with substantial debt,
plummeting credit ratings, and little money in the bank who
feared that her lavish lifestyle was about to end. And
it's true she bought they had a lavish lifestyle, for sure,
but fucking said to a lot of people. So San
Antonio chief medical examiner testifies that the wound to Rote's

(15:22):
neck came within two millimeters of her crodrittterie and that
was not consistent with self inflicted wounds he had seen
in the past. But Tom Bevell, who's we'll get to,
testifies that cast off blood found on the back of
her night shirt indicates that she had raised the knife
over her head as she withdrew it from each boy
to stab against.

Speaker 2 (15:40):
It's the old blood spatter that we write. And let's
remember Tom Bevell's name. Oh okay, uh huh posted note
on Tom Bevell.

Speaker 1 (15:54):
Okay, So I listened to nine to one one call,
because of course I did, and I got to play
the whole thing for you right now, No, I'm not.

Speaker 2 (16:01):
And then door slam. Yeah, my car peeling.

Speaker 1 (16:06):
It sounds to me it sounded a lot like the
Jeen Vrenet Ramsey nine one one call.

Speaker 2 (16:12):
Patsy.

Speaker 1 (16:13):
Patsy Ramsey's like panicked, I'm freaking out. I can't answer
the questions correctly. There's something off and the way that
when the analysis happened, the me the I that my
baby her like not, which I'll get to as well.

Speaker 2 (16:29):
So it's more the nine one one call. She's talking
about herself more than the people who need nine on one.

Speaker 1 (16:35):
Service, yes, and she's answering questions very well until the
question is pointed and then she freaks out, you know
what I mean? Like, remember she was like what happened?
And then Patsy just starts screaming my baby. You know
she won't fucking answer the question, right, Okay. So there's this, Okay,
so let's get to that. There's this fucking incredible blog
called that statement dash Analysis dot blog spot, which I've

(16:59):
been to before just to read. I read John Bena
Ramsey The Patsy Ramsey ninety one Call Analysis. This guy
is really fucking good at it and it's super cool.
He examines the entire call and finds a bunch of
discrepancies that leads to him thinking that she's actually knows
more than she's saying. So a couple of this thing
is that she's more concerned with explaining what happened than

(17:21):
with the fact that her sons are dying, So she
keeps coming to conclusions about they came in, how did
they get in, why would anyone do this? It's inconsistent.
The she can't keep her pronouns or article straight, which
this guy Statement Analysis explains is very weird, such as
he says stuff like them and then calls them him,

(17:43):
and then calls them they, then someone, then some man.
It's never like him. It's never always him or always
a certain her.

Speaker 2 (17:52):
Talking about the guy that broke in.

Speaker 1 (17:53):
Yeah, it's always a different pronoun which I've dine very
or article. It's very interesting, and in the call she
establishes her alibi for the fact that, So the nine
one caller says, So, Darley says that there's a that
there was a knife in the utility exit, and the

(18:13):
nine one one collar says, Okay, leave it there, don't
touch it, and Darley says, I already grabbed it, and
then she says, god, I bet we could have gotten
prints from that, maybe, like she but she's having a
panic attack, she's panicking. All she does that, but I
already grabbed it. I already grabbed it, and like establishing
the fact, and then.

Speaker 2 (18:29):
Goes back to it later like she but sorry in
that panic, also says we could have gotten prince off
of those.

Speaker 1 (18:35):
Back to it, I can't believe I grabbed the knife,
reminding you, I bet we could have gotten prints off
of that. But imagine someone having hysterical Patsy Ramsey breakdown
during that.

Speaker 2 (18:43):
Imagine your children bleeding in front of you and you're
talking about where you would that you could have or
couldn't have gotten print.

Speaker 1 (18:51):
She also says, like, I bet, I bet this happened,
Like she's establishing she's trying to convince the nine on
one operator of what happened. Yeah, and her husband too,
so so she's trying to convince her husband what happened.
While he's admitting administering CPR to his kids. Instead of
asking how they are, she keeps saying, Darren, this thing happened.

(19:12):
Can you believe this happened? Someone broke in, Darren, they
broke in, Like she's trying to convince him of it.

Speaker 2 (19:17):
She's talking about the crime as opposed to, like the
criminal is opposed to the result.

Speaker 1 (19:21):
What happened, as opposed to are they okay? Are they alive?
What's happening at this moment? And he says the mother
accepts the children's death even while they're still breathing, saying
they're dead.

Speaker 2 (19:32):
They're dead.

Speaker 1 (19:33):
My children are dead, and one of them is dead.
One of them is still breathing. I think he's giving
him CPR, and I think he's he's like, they can
tell that he's still alive. Yeah, So she keeps acknowledging
their death, and he was saying, the guy from this
website is saying that, you know, parents won't acknowledge their
children's death, for even when saying, you know your kid

(19:55):
passed away. No, no, no, it didn't happen. I don't
believe it can't be true, right, that's a normal I.

Speaker 2 (20:00):
Feel oh sorry, I feel like I've seen that on
some shows or whatever. People how they know it's fake.
On the nine one one call is that exact thing.
When you're on the call, it's always about the hope
and the help and ditting it now, getting it done,
get you quicker.

Speaker 1 (20:18):
Why aren't they here yet?

Speaker 2 (20:19):
Exactly as opposed to like, let's all on this call,
decide this is over.

Speaker 1 (20:23):
Yeah, she keeps yelling they're dead, they're dead, okay, and
then here's the other thing about it. So she keeps
saying she keeps calling her kids by different things. So
it depends on how she's how she's saying they are
that she changes. So at one point she can say
they're dead, my babies are dead, and then when they're

(20:46):
still alive, they're called the boys or my children, changes
depending on what states that she's saying they're in. So
it's never my babies, it's never the boys, never my children.
It's always dependent on my babies are dead. Period. There's
never my children are dead. Oh, it's always my babies.

(21:06):
Then the children, why would they attack the children? They're
still you know. It's it's just like.

Speaker 2 (21:11):
Like she's almost got written her lies these certain ways.

Speaker 1 (21:14):
It's not even it's something rehearsed, but it's also the way,
like the way someone who was legitimately reacting wouldn't say
those things.

Speaker 2 (21:23):
They would stick to it.

Speaker 1 (21:24):
They would stick to it, but they would would my
babies or my children, They would stick to one one
the whole time. Yeah, I got it. Yeah, And she
can't keep the chronology of her story consistent. Things keep
fucking changing, like them him someone, those things are not
they they're supposed to say the same the whole time.

(21:45):
And because she's doing the whole thing of like this
is this must have been what happened this? Uh, they
did this, they did that that she has intimate knowledge
of the killer's intentions and thoughts why would they do this?
You know, and explaining it chrizy.

Speaker 2 (22:00):
How long was this fucking nine to one one call?
Like nine minute?

Speaker 1 (22:03):
And it's like five and a half minute.

Speaker 2 (22:04):
Did you listen the whole thing?

Speaker 3 (22:05):
Uh?

Speaker 2 (22:05):
Huh oh dude.

Speaker 1 (22:06):
It doesn't do nothing for me, especially when I know
I think they're not. Yeah, that's even worse when they're lying.

Speaker 2 (22:13):
I know.

Speaker 1 (22:14):
No, it's not worse to me. I don't want to
hear someone's genuine grief.

Speaker 2 (22:17):
Oh that's true, but it's almost like any my god,
what it makes me think of that Sherry Rasmussen thing
I was telling you about those on Case File. It's
an amazing episode. I think it's like three or four
case files ago, and if you haven't listened to it,
you have to go listen to it. But it's this
woman who was a cop who killed her. She was
obsessed with this boyfriend who didn't basically want her. She

(22:40):
ended up killing his wife and then hiding up like
basically making sure she would never get caught for it
for years, for years, and then they finally trace it
back to her and they have the entire an interrogation,
which she doesn't think is an interrogation, and they're telling
her is not one. They just need to ask her
a couple questions, and you basically listen to her, lie, Lie, Lie,

(23:02):
and then it slowly breaks down and like I had
to turn it off because she listening to a person
who still thinks that they're lying and getting away with it.

Speaker 1 (23:11):
They're smarter than the person who.

Speaker 2 (23:13):
When it's blatantly obvious, it's just like painfully obvious.

Speaker 1 (23:17):
And they're playing the cops are playing stupid like they.

Speaker 2 (23:19):
Would she never plas Yeah, yeah, so they're going they're
just basically saying, listen, we just need this information. She'd
be like, I don't know, like she did it the
same way every time, where she would do this faky stutter.

Speaker 1 (23:32):
Yeah, painful. That's why I love reading the line for
line here, Like this guy was like this thing. They
just said those two little like he'll highlight I instead
of me or you know what I mean, Like that's
shit that you just don't pay attention to. I fucking
love that stuff.

Speaker 2 (23:48):
Like because you can't control it in the moment.

Speaker 1 (23:50):
Right because a normal person and they and this person
studied you know, so many normal true nine on one
calls and confession that here's what people say when they're
legitimately going through grief and freaking the fuck out. Yeah,
you don't say these other things. And here's how you
know they're lying. So, I mean, we know the ones
that are lying, and he brings up examples of them,

(24:12):
a lot of the ones that are like it's like
this one that is untrue, that is proven to be untrue.

Speaker 2 (24:18):
I don't know. I think it's fucking awesome.

Speaker 1 (24:20):
It is it's fascinating, okay, And here's my favorite part,
and this is the last thing I'll say about it.
She also talks about how he says. She also talks
about how the knife is quote the knife was quote
lying in the garage, like laying in the garage, and
then he says, when an inanimate object is reported to
be lying, standing, sitting, et cetera, the passive language suggests

(24:41):
that the subject placed it there. Knives cannot quote lie down,
nor stand, nor sit, so when the language is employed,
it is a verbal sign that the speaker or the
subject is responsible for the placement. This is commonly seen
in murder weapons and in drugs, as in the drugs
were sitting on the cabinet as an example, and it

(25:03):
is like you think of it, it's like it was
doing this thing away from me that I had nothing
to do with. The drugs were just sitting on the
cabinet instead of the drugs were on a cabinet.

Speaker 2 (25:12):
So it's basically like in their mind, they're watching themselves
put it on the ground, so then it's like it's
lying on the ground.

Speaker 1 (25:18):
Or they're purposely distancing or saying what they would have
seen if they weren't part of it, if they weren't involved.
I saw a knife lying on the ground. Well, it's
like if you weren't involved in that, you would just
see a knife on the ground.

Speaker 2 (25:32):
A knife on the ground. Yeah, that's fascint isn't that interesting? Yes,
that's like that. Do you ever see that fucking Tim
Roth TV show where it was all about catching lying
and micro expressions and all that stuff? But I knew
I would like that every time I heard about it. Yes,
it was. That's what that show was. Like me, all
like eyes and what lie to me? Right? Yes, it's

(25:54):
like right now, No, don't tell me, try it? Uh that?
And you look up to you look up one direction
when you're telling the truth, remembering, and you look up
the other when you're lying remember.

Speaker 1 (26:04):
Never remember which one I would I don't know, But
then you end up looking at every single every single
person's like blink or like her eyelash moved? Is she lying?

Speaker 2 (26:13):
It doesn't. I think those ones don't apply to everything,
but language, Yeah, it makes more sense. You can't control
it as well.

Speaker 1 (26:20):
Yeah, because you distance yourself from things by saying certain
things and you and it's it's not rehearsed and that
you read a script and said, Okay, here's what I'm
gonna say. But it's like and this he keeps saying that, Uh,
when you're when you're going from memory from legitimate memory,
you don't stop to say these inconsistencies, you know, I

(26:43):
fucking love it.

Speaker 2 (26:44):
You don't stop to go we could have gotten prints
off the right, just completely fucking.

Speaker 1 (26:50):
Or at that point, it's like, it doesn't matter that
you're you telling me over and over again that someone
broke into your house and came at you. Doesn't matter.
What matters is getting someone over there right away. Like
you don't need the nine to one one operator doesn't
need to know that.

Speaker 2 (27:04):
You say it once and that's all the information they
need to know.

Speaker 1 (27:06):
Yeah, and they said, like why when they say nine
one one, what is your emergency? It's so there that
doesn't have to be any greeting, any you know, pretenses.
You just fucking say what your emergency is. And she
started with a man came into my house. This happened,
I got my throat is slit or whatever, and my
babies got stabbed. Like she doesn't even start get someone

(27:29):
over here right now. My children are dying. Oh you know, like,
you don't need this isn't the trial, don't.

Speaker 2 (27:36):
You're not here to tell the story of what just happened,
which you clearly made up. What should be your immediate
action is to save my fucking baby.

Speaker 1 (27:46):
Get someone fucking as soon as possible. Yeah, all right,
So remember Tom Bevell, I sure do.

Speaker 2 (27:51):
I put a post it note on the mental idea
of him. I saw that.

Speaker 1 (27:56):
So he stated that the bloodstains on her victorious ce
prit night shirt were quote consistent with cast off blood.
Blah bady blah. He says that cast off stains on
the front indicate that she could not have been lying
on the couch when the sons were attacked, and that

(28:17):
the crime scene was staged because of that. So Tom
Bevell is the dude who is being taken to court
and has proven that a bunch of the blood spatter
analysis that he testified to and got people fucking found
guilty for a lot of that is incorrect and bunk science.

Speaker 2 (28:38):
He's the one that made it up, right, Like he
basically became a blood spatter expert right on his own declaration.

Speaker 1 (28:46):
Yeah, and I don't even know if he thinks that
he made it up It's almost like he just seems
like a cocky son of a bitch who was like,
here's what happens, and believed it and became this big
time you know, prosecuting witness and fucking loved it and
kept talking about it.

Speaker 2 (29:03):
Now he's the guy from the staircase, right, Yeah, Yeah
that basically like at the end, they're just like all
of this is yeah thrown out.

Speaker 1 (29:11):
Well, it's so much of that evidence. Like remember we
were talking about the hair evidence that's not really conclusive,
the blood spatter evidence. All this shit is like proving
to be bullshit, all right, sim there's evidence to suggest
that she wasn't the killer. The article in Texas Monthly

(29:32):
by Skip Hollinsworth, Oh it's got the best name.

Speaker 2 (29:36):
So there.

Speaker 1 (29:37):
Several neighbors told police that they had noticed a dark
car slowly cruising through the area in the weeks before
the crime, and one even said that the car occasionally
stopped near their house, the Reuters, the roy Tier's house,
and that a private and guest skater working for Darley's
Pellet attorney says that Darren her husband admitted that in

(29:59):
this spring of ninety six, when his business was in trouble,
and he was twenty two thousand dollars in debt. He
asked Darley's stepfather if he knew anyone who might break
into the family's house as part of an insurance scam.

Speaker 2 (30:11):
What the fuck I know?

Speaker 1 (30:13):
He admitted this to the reporter Skip Hollinsworth, who wrote
an article about it, and said that he confessed to
the scheme that this was true. He asked someone to
break into their house to steal shit so they could
make money, so they could get the insurance money off
the items he stole, right, which is like different than
having someone killed, but it's not far from it.

Speaker 2 (30:35):
Well, it's yes, it's the willingness to break the laws
so you can get your ass out of whatever financial
problem you're in.

Speaker 1 (30:41):
And it's knowing that you can hire someone to do
a deed for you so that you can get insurance money.

Speaker 2 (30:45):
And you're dumb enough to tell.

Speaker 1 (30:48):
People, which makes me think if you're dumb enough to
tell the father of your wife who ends up getting
her throat slit, that seems chose, That doesn't seem that
doesn't seem cagy to me too.

Speaker 2 (31:01):
I don't know on his part, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, So.

Speaker 1 (31:04):
Anyways, Uh, he said that he confessed he had discussed
it with other people in town. He says, there's a
possibility I said the same thing in conversation with people
that worked around me. I don't remember what I said,
but there's a strong possibility that was on my mind
in conversation I could have said that. So he is

(31:25):
he is saying that, like maybe he mentioned to someone
that he wanted insurance money. So maybe someone broke in
and killed his children and tried to kill his wife.
So he you know, it's like just I don't know,
it's so fucking weird. But so they say his guilt
his it would have been financial trouble. That was his motive.
And he had a two hundred and fifty thousand policy

(31:46):
life insurance policy on Darley, so maybe the main motive
was to kill her. Why would he kill why would
they kill the children?

Speaker 2 (31:53):
Though? Whatever?

Speaker 1 (31:55):
He but Darren had an eight hundred thousand dollared life
insurance policy on him. So who's to say that if
Darley was and had done it, why wouldn't she have
just killed the husband? Why would she kill her two children?
It's fucking confusing, And the policies on the kids was
really low, so it wasn't like they were the main motive.

(32:16):
He failed a polygraph test and is shown to be
lying to four questions. The questions were, was he involved
in any plan to commit a crime at his house
on June sixth, nineteen ninety six, did he stab Darley?
Did he know who planted the sock in the alley?
And could he name the person who stabbed Darley? So
he failed those four questions. But part of the bargain

(32:40):
that the high profile lawyers that cost ninety four thousand
dollars to hire for Darley was that they would agree
to not go with the defense attorney original defense attorney's strategy,
which was to raise reasonable doubt for Darley by casting
suspicion on husband. So they were like, we'll represent you

(33:03):
or you will pay you, but you can't suggest that
the husband did it, which is like weird. So she
Darley is convicted of murdering Damon and only one kid,
and on February fourth, ninety seven, she's sentenced to death
by lethal injection.

Speaker 2 (33:19):
Sorry really quick? Did the second kid live?

Speaker 1 (33:22):
No?

Speaker 2 (33:22):
They both died, okay, but for she was just still
alive on that call.

Speaker 1 (33:25):
Right For some reason. It's just one children child. I
don't understand. It's just so confounding. A juror is later
expressed regret, saying that there were photos of her injuries
that never were shown during the trial, and that she
felt coerced by other jurors to find Darley guilty. The

(33:47):
court reporter made thirty three thirty three hundred mistakes in
the transcript, which.

Speaker 2 (33:55):
Is now as a court reporter.

Speaker 1 (33:58):
No, never a core student.

Speaker 2 (34:00):
Oh well, as someone that knows a little bit about it.

Speaker 1 (34:03):
I would have never passed your class. You would never
become a court reporter if you made that many mistakes.

Speaker 2 (34:08):
That's an insane amount.

Speaker 1 (34:11):
Like, that's insane.

Speaker 2 (34:13):
Those people have to be like because it's it's what
what they're writing becomes like.

Speaker 1 (34:18):
It's the only it's the only evidence of what happened
in that courtroom. Yeah, so yeah, that should be a
mistrial alone.

Speaker 2 (34:29):
What was she doing or he?

Speaker 1 (34:31):
I don't know. She acknowledged that she had lied to
cover what she feared was a reverse, an irreversible error
that would have gotten wrote gotten Darly a new trial.
So she she made these many mistakes, and she lied about.

Speaker 2 (34:44):
It because she didn't want her to get a new trial.

Speaker 1 (34:47):
Because she didn't want to get in trouble. Oh oh,
and she loses.

Speaker 2 (34:51):
She lost her license, but I think that's fair.

Speaker 1 (34:54):
Yeah, but she was granted immunity from prosecution by the
DA's office, which would have had to which would have
if she had been if she had spoken about it,
they would have gotten a new trial for U and Darley.

Speaker 2 (35:05):
So it's all fucked up.

Speaker 1 (35:08):
So I watched like the first jail house interview of
Darley and she has that creepy little girl voice of
like I've been like the weird little girl voice of
like something is not right with your voice?

Speaker 2 (35:21):
I mean, oh yeah, no, I was just thinking Maria
Bamford has a joke. The higher your voice, the angrier
you are.

Speaker 1 (35:28):
Yeah. Yeah, Maria Bamford could play this chick really well.
I bet she Like she looks like our friend Glen's McCarthy.
Oh wow, pretty blonde, looks all American and then just
hands with Linternalice.

Speaker 2 (35:42):
So she's just trying.

Speaker 1 (35:42):
Really hard, and it's just so creepy because the interviewer,
the woman the news news reporter, is female, and the
way Darley is talking to her is just like very
It just seems creepy. It's just not right, which I
know is not a reason why someone killed someone. What's
the vibe though, The vibe is not understanding that you

(36:05):
seem off like the sociopath, Like here's what empathy looks like,
and I'm trying to do that and I must be
so believable.

Speaker 2 (36:14):
Oh so, like, uh what overly or under overly?

Speaker 1 (36:25):
Not even overly, just not authentic. She's not overdoing it.
It just doesn't seem authentic, which I will fucking take
back if she's found innocent little girl boys. Oh and
at the end of the interview, she asks to sing
a hymn she used to sing to her sons, and
she sings it straight to the camera, no, looking forlornly

(36:48):
with her fucking furrowed brow, and she does all the
like Christina Aguilera, heisen Low's not very low, not very well,
but does.

Speaker 2 (36:56):
The like geez, you know, like you do know.

Speaker 1 (37:02):
Yeah, it's fucking weird. She's straight to camera trying to
look sad. That's there you go, And that's all I need,
do you know what I find weird to And this
could just be me being an atheist. Is like when
people are like, well, it's Okay, I'm going to see
them in heaven.

Speaker 2 (37:19):
I'm fine.

Speaker 1 (37:19):
Like they're fine with someone dying because they think they're
going to see them soon, which is like, if that's
what you believe, fine, but you should still be mourning
the fact that they're dead and they died horrifically. You
shouldn't be like, it's fine, I'm going to see them
one day.

Speaker 2 (37:31):
Also, if you're the mother, yeah, like any mother, even
if their children are full grown. If the children die
before the mother, the mother is fucking ruined broken. There's
no time to broa sing a goddamn songs.

Speaker 1 (37:49):
And the reporter in the show says she asked to
sing a song that she like. She can you can
tell by the way she says like she didn't just
let it play out with her singing. She voiceovered. She
asked this like, and she asked us to do this.

Speaker 2 (38:05):
Wait, is it local or is it like a twenty.

Speaker 1 (38:07):
It's like a twenty twenty, but it's like late nineties.
The other thing is all these people online and there's
all these like Darling's and Darley's innocent. Darley's not innocent,
And everyone goes to the silly string at the at
the graveyard and how fucking crazy that is, and she's
laughing intoing gum. And every single time that someone mentions that, says, well,

(38:27):
you don't know how someone grieves for their Like that's
the argument for everything, Like you can't read into that
at all because you don't know how you'd grieve and
blah blah blah. And it's like that's true for the
night of and you're in shock and you don't cry
in hysterics, but eight days later and you're fucking laughing
and don't have a sign of fucking you look really pretty,
and the news vans are there and they're supposed to

(38:48):
be there. Yeah, and you're you're celebrating.

Speaker 2 (38:52):
You're doing a show, is what you're doing. You're not
your quote celebrating. Well, yeah, the idea of like we're
gonna celebrate his life even though it just ended.

Speaker 1 (39:03):
That doesn't happen for ten years. Then ten years later,
like we're gonna celebrate his life, We're gonna let some
balloons go right whatever the fuck.

Speaker 2 (39:11):
Yes, it's not like laughter and kind of joy. Also,
all of that indicates a drug or a drink of
some kind, because there's a bit of separation of like,
to me, that's what that sounds like. It reminds me
of remember in the in the uh, that fucking horrible case.
Now I'm to tell me the the whatever three the

(39:34):
boys three? Yes, remember that one where the one mother
she like once they have to go, she starts getting
interviewed and she's clearly fucked up. She's like drunken on
pills or.

Speaker 1 (39:47):
She's like collapsing.

Speaker 2 (39:48):
Yes, Like it's that kind of thing where that it
makes perfect sense, Like I don't expect people to grieve
correctly or do anything, and I do expect them to
take something to medicate themselves so they don't have to
sit in that horrible shit.

Speaker 1 (40:03):
And you understand denial being like I'm not crying, And
because I don't understand, I'm at a hospital around strangers,
and you're telling me like this isn't kick. I'm not
at home looking at my children's clothing. You know, I'm
not acknowledging this. This doesn't make any sense right now.

Speaker 2 (40:17):
Yeah, you're just in this nightmare world. Right. All of
that is fine, but it doesn't have an underpinning of
celebration on laughing totally. It has an underpinning of like
when you can when someone's like a tragic drunk You're
you're like, oh no, they're on the verge of tears,
but they're like, yah, it's fine, everything's fine.

Speaker 1 (40:36):
All the things that remind me, Okay. So this happened
in June of ninety six. December of ninety six is
when fucking Jean Benet happen. And there are really a
lot of similarities. Jean Patsy Ramsey going on camera and
crying about my babies, which or my baby hold your
babies close, same kind of wording and full face of makeup,

(40:58):
looks fucking put together as shit is on it already
doing PR. Her lawyers already like get in there and
do some PR and like clean the shit up. I mean, no, don't, don't.

Speaker 2 (41:10):
I can't imagine, be piruse all. I can't imagine what
would be like to have a child, because it's so
god nham stressful. How you would do anything? Like if
I lost a child and then they were like you
have to go talk on TV, I'd be like, I
will murder you, Like, get the fuck away from me.

Speaker 1 (41:27):
When one of these two little fucking sweepy furry beings
that are hanging out with me right now, my cats,
they're not whatever that could be taken in a lot
of ways. I will fucking I will be a wreck
when these two die. Of course, there was the rest
of my fucking life, and they're not my children, right,
I don't It doesn't make any sense to me. So
I think what happened is that Darley.

Speaker 2 (41:48):
And Darren.

Speaker 1 (41:50):
Planned something together. There's no way that he was just
oblivious to all of.

Speaker 2 (41:55):
That in no way, right, not if he was already
asking people if he could make money by getting his
house wrong.

Speaker 1 (42:01):
He knows insurance scams, Yeah, he knows what's going on.
Her deep neck wound. I don't think she could have
done herself, but you know, could have someone else who's
fucking trying to make it look that way.

Speaker 2 (42:12):
But who stabs their own children?

Speaker 1 (42:15):
Maybe the intruder they paid to come in and do it.
Can they're not their own children? But it's not their
own children.

Speaker 2 (42:24):
What do you mean?

Speaker 1 (42:24):
I think they did hire someone to come in.

Speaker 2 (42:27):
But they're hiring someone to kill their own children. You're
not saying it's not their children. You're saying it's not
the intruder. It's not the intrue children.

Speaker 1 (42:33):
And that maybe maybe Darley was the only uh intended
victim and something went wrong. Oh, because because there's so
many ways she could have covered it up. She could
have just not been sleeping downstairs that night, you know
what I mean, Like, why was she because the kids

(42:54):
were sleeping downstairs. They were doing that on a regular basis.
It was summer, they watched TV late. They could have
she could have just gone to bed and the kids
sleep downstairs. If she really didn't.

Speaker 2 (43:03):
Yeah, why did she have to be in the mix
at all? Right? Yeah, and why do you think why? What?
Why do you think she had to be in the
mix at all?

Speaker 1 (43:12):
That doesn't make any sense to me. Maybe she maybe
she legitimately has nothing to do with it, and Darren
is the only one involved. Maybe it's some guy who
worked for him and was like, I'm gonna do this
and then he's gonna owe me money and they had
nothing to do with it.

Speaker 2 (43:28):
I don't think.

Speaker 1 (43:29):
That's true because there's no other evidence. I mean, whatever, fuck,
I've been going on too long. Ti'm sorry, it's just
it's bonkers.

Speaker 2 (43:36):
No, it's fascinating. Well, also, if she okay, then then yeah,
flip it around. If she if he did attack her
and almost killed her and killed her children then all
that other stuff. Did she just fucking snap and like
knowing she was she in on it, but then didn't

(43:59):
think she was to get attacked and went crazy or
did she realize? I mean, that's the.

Speaker 1 (44:07):
Thing that they said too, is that mothers who kill
their children, drown them, poison them, suffocate them, don't manically
stab your own child.

Speaker 2 (44:19):
Stabbing is fucking awful and intense, and like the personal ones.

Speaker 1 (44:23):
Especially when she's never had a I aside from postpartum depression,
which I think fucking everyone gets, every mother gets, and
you know she's freaking out because they don't have any money,
so she's stressed. But you don't, No, you don't go
from no mental issues like Andrea Yates who had them,
who kept trying to fucking get help for that.

Speaker 2 (44:46):
But there is like the Diane downs, which is she
she shot, which is different, but close at close range
her three children.

Speaker 1 (44:57):
Right, that's even shooting and stabbing fucking light years when
it comes to your children.

Speaker 2 (45:05):
Don't you think.

Speaker 1 (45:08):
I mean, we can say this because we don't have kids,
so we don't well.

Speaker 2 (45:12):
How the fuck a how the fuck would we know
at all? Be I agree with you in that stabbing
is like if it was once, if each one was
stabbed once in the chest and they both died throat slit.

Speaker 1 (45:27):
As much as I hate to say, it's like you
know you're gonna but here's what I didn't say is
that one of the kids was stabbed on the ground.

Speaker 2 (45:34):
They were on the ground through to the carpet four times.

Speaker 1 (45:37):
Oh Like it was not a like no, you know,
it's like a fucking angry stabbing. I know what happened.
I think it was an intruder, but I don't think
that they're not involved.

Speaker 2 (45:51):
But she's the one that went to jail and he
did not death penalty, so she's still on death row. Yeah,
and he is not.

Speaker 1 (45:58):
Never he's living with the baby who's now older, I'm obviously.

Speaker 2 (46:04):
Because this was from the nineties ninety six.

Speaker 1 (46:07):
Fuck yeah, dude, and the whole family's behind her. They
all don't think she did it. Like his family ever,
No one thinks she did it. I mean, go watch
go watch her interviews and tell me what you think.
And go watch the video of her fucking spring silly
string and no I've seen it, chomping gum.

Speaker 2 (46:26):
I saw that video like right after it happened, and
I can still replay it in my head now at
this moment.

Speaker 1 (46:33):
The silly string is so aggressive. It's like, even if
you just was the balloons, the silly string is like,
if you fucking spread me a silly string out of nowhere,
I'm gonna be pissed off.

Speaker 2 (46:45):
Yes, it's too strong. Yeah, it's like it's it's very
It's kind of like some pranks where it's like actually
very aggressive, like look.

Speaker 1 (46:55):
How stupid do you look? You're getting silly string in
the face.

Speaker 2 (46:58):
Because it's not like too too it's like it's like
a weird attack. And she's doing it like that to us,
to a gravestats to a great.

Speaker 1 (47:08):
Stone, laughing while she's doing it, like, Hahi, guys.

Speaker 2 (47:12):
Isn't this I introduce me to the person. I one
hundred percent agree with the people that are like, you
don't know other people grieve one hundred percent. I one
hundred percent believe if you have a child die, you
get to take every drug you want, you get to
drink all the drinks in the world, do whatever the
fuck you want, and it might make you act super weird,
but there would still not be an element of celebration,

(47:33):
especially because all of those things have a depressive quality
to them. Alcohol is a depressant. I mean, those pills
would be depressed.

Speaker 1 (47:40):
Everyone's parent. When I die, when I'm eighty five, I
want you to have a party and celebrate my life.
And it's like, okay, dad, nobody fucking does that. Yeah,
leaving your father had like an amazing life. You're not
going to be like, let's have a party left the song. No,
you're all fucking grieving.

Speaker 2 (47:56):
But but and even if you're like like my mom's funeral,
there there was lots of laughing because she was super funny, right,
but people were fucking sobbed, right, But you can you
can entertain the complexity of an emotional situation like that
a child being stabbed to death.

Speaker 1 (48:15):
By someone you're purporting to not buy, some psychopath that
you don't know who it is, that is on the
fucking loose.

Speaker 2 (48:21):
Yeah, you don't. You don't have a birthday party at
the grave site. You simply do not.

Speaker 1 (48:25):
You can go to the gravesite and grieve, but you
also don't call the fucking news vans and tell them
you're there, because they weren't just hanging out there It's
like when celebrities are like, oh I got caught having
a date at fucking Spago. It's like, no, your publicist
calls and says, so and so is going to be
at Spago.

Speaker 2 (48:39):
So you think she called news vans.

Speaker 1 (48:41):
I can't imagine. And maybe they followed her there. I
don't know, but you don't. There's some reason they were there.

Speaker 2 (48:47):
Yes, that's right, Yeah, that's right they thought. And maybe
it could have been like the singing where she thought
this will look good.

Speaker 1 (48:54):
On tape for me, because she doesn't understand human emotion
and what it's supposed to look like. And so here's
what it's supposed to look like. We're celebrating their lives,
like most normal people who have fucking real emotions are like,
uh ah, like look at this hymn I used to
sing to my babies at night. But look at what
a great singer I am? Ya is really what it's saying? Right,

(49:15):
And look how sad I look? Stephen, why are you
laughing right now? This isn't funny. It's funny, Steven.

Speaker 2 (49:21):
Gross, Yes, it's insanely gross. It's like, can I sing
a song? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (49:27):
And that the even the newscaster or The Newswoman was like, no,
I'm telling you that she asked to do this, because
this is fucking weird.

Speaker 2 (49:34):
Yeah, I would want to get on tape. You'd be like,
make sure everyone understands we didn't pre produce her or
lead her into this. This was her idea totally. And
also that that is a dividing line, because it's like,
this is this is a person who is thinking of
themselves and what they seem like more than anything else.

Speaker 1 (49:54):
What the what the what they think of?

Speaker 2 (49:56):
Mom? Should do?

Speaker 1 (49:58):
I want to sing this song? It's the song I
I sang to my children. So she's like, look at
this thing I did, I did for my children. That's right,
not you know, it's it's her first. It's the crazy narcissism.
You think your kids are really stoked to hear the
song every night about Jesus. No, they want to fight?
Do you want to sing the fucking itsy bitsy spider?
Like that's what your fucking little five year old kid

(50:19):
was into, not your fucking hymn of you singing like
Christina Aguilera.

Speaker 2 (50:23):
Man. It's also makes me think of the Diane Downes
video where she in showing the guy started laughing and
slurting with the guy she was the reporter she was
supposed to be showing into.

Speaker 1 (50:35):
Is the creepiest video. Okay, here, that was really long.
I'm sorry, No, no, no, it was good.

Speaker 2 (50:43):
I liked it.

Speaker 1 (50:43):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (50:45):
Oh last thing.

Speaker 1 (50:46):
Yeah, her prison job is cross stitching baby blankets that
are later sold to state prison employees. Baby blankets. She
crossed stitches.

Speaker 2 (50:58):
Can you imagine being sarcastic in the jail job?

Speaker 1 (51:03):
Give her this job?

Speaker 2 (51:06):
Or is she is? She's is that someone's supposed to
be her thick.

Speaker 1 (51:10):
She's saying, maybe she's telling people that, but it's not true.
They trust me enough to make their baby blankets. But
really it's like.

Speaker 2 (51:17):
I also want to note about that neck wound. Whis
neck wound right?

Speaker 1 (51:21):
I mean, there's photos of it and you can't tell
me because it's covered up by like bandages, but it
looks I don't I can't tell, but from what I
read about it, it's.

Speaker 2 (51:31):
Deep fucking crazy.

Speaker 1 (51:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (51:34):
Also because most of those people just they do something
to the opposite.

Speaker 1 (51:38):
Arm, and it was on both sides of her body
that she got hit, which is not normal.

Speaker 2 (51:44):
He was in it, He did it.

Speaker 1 (51:46):
He did it to her she wasn't supposed to do
it as deep maybe. Ah fuck man, when do we
find out what what happened?

Speaker 2 (51:56):
Tomorrow? Oh good? You call me?

Speaker 1 (51:59):
Ye okay, we'll go put it go to our Twitter,
and we're gonna have We're gonna be the only ones
who know, and we're gonna I mean.

Speaker 2 (52:06):
That it is like cut to forty years later. It's
just all these That's how all these are. And maybe
that's part of the draw. It's just that thing of
like this long, real life mystery, and.

Speaker 1 (52:17):
You can like entertain all these different possibilities because you
don't want to be like, this is what happened and I.

Speaker 2 (52:24):
Know it right, because you can't be who fucking knows?
Who knows? But also you know a little like I'll
like that thing of like analyzing language and stuff. And
it's been twenty years. Can you fucking believe that?

Speaker 1 (52:39):
So you know, I read conflicting comments on every fucking
thing of like this happened, this happened. I'm like, I
never read anything about fingerprints anywhere else. What are you
fucking talking about? And then you have to go down that.

Speaker 2 (52:51):
It's just like was there any new stuff?

Speaker 1 (52:55):
Just little things DNA they're gonna do DNA testing on
this fingerprint. Like, I don't know, but thing is being
concluded too.

Speaker 2 (53:02):
It is pretty fascinating that that guy that the blood
spatter expert was in this case right, specifically him. How
many did he just travel around the country fucking up
murder cases?

Speaker 1 (53:13):
It sounds like it. It's all right, piece of shit.

Speaker 2 (53:21):
Okay, we're back. How about any updates for this case?

Speaker 1 (53:25):
No updates, Nothing really has changed. I did hear from
a friend who grew up down the street from this
case after I covered it, my friend Jackie Johnson, who
was like it was the talk of the neighborhood. Obviously,
But Darley remains on death row, continues to maintain her innocence,
and she and her family continue to file appeals and
claim there is DNA that will eventually clear her.

Speaker 2 (53:49):
Oh I know, I mean.

Speaker 1 (53:50):
As the twenty twenty four prosecutors say they have tested
one hundred DNA samples from the scene and all belonged
to Darley and the little boys. Who know? I mean,
will she ever? It's been thirty years. I can't imagine
she'll just turn now, after all her family's been supporting
her and stuff too, Right, you can't just be like, Okay,
I'm done with this, that's right, especially such a heinous,

(54:14):
fucking time.

Speaker 2 (54:15):
It's so horrible, and then you you can just keep
switching from this is a person who actually did this
and has been lying this whole time to this is
a person who did not do this and is trying
to confront people like you have to believe me.

Speaker 1 (54:28):
Oh yeah, I mean I don't know which one's worse. Yeah, definitely,
you don't have to pick. I won't pick, thank you.
I just realized like.

Speaker 2 (54:38):
They're horrible and we'll never know. I think choice in life.

Speaker 1 (54:41):
Oh my god. Okay, let's get into your famous story
about Fatty hour Buckle.

Speaker 2 (54:52):
Well, are you ready for this one?

Speaker 1 (54:54):
Always?

Speaker 2 (54:55):
This is a story that I heard when I first
moved to Los Angeles. This is kind of like a
popular old timey Hollywood like rumor story, which is the
Fatty our Our Buckle rape and murder case. Have you
ever heard that one?

Speaker 1 (55:11):
But I don't know a ton of facts about it?

Speaker 2 (55:12):
Okay, same here. That's why I looked into it, which
makes it fascinating because the only thing I ever knew
for a really long time was Fatty Arbuckle was a
silent film star, like around the time of Charlie Chaplin
and Harold Lloyd. And he was and he that he
raped and killed a girl. That's the only thing I

(55:33):
knew that he was a huge star. And then after
that his reputation of course was ruined and you never
heard from him again. So here's the real story, and
it's pretty amazing. So Fatty Arbuckle when he was eight
years old, we're just going to start from the beginning
as if we don't know anything. We don't know that
any of those stories got it. Let's just tell it

(55:55):
like that, because that's what the very aggressive British narrator
of this Fatty Arbuckle crimes and misdemeanors or some fucking
show that I watched, he was just like and none
of it's true, and he's just like really defensive of
Fatty Arbuckle.

Speaker 1 (56:10):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (56:11):
So but he was basically like, put it all out
of your mind, so stop thinking, stop thinking about it, okay.
So in eighteen ninety five, Fatty Arbuckle was a kid
hanging around the back door of a theater and a
producer walks by and sees him and grabs him and
says do you want to be in a play because
they needed a kid to play an eight year old

(56:32):
and he does it and he's great, and he ends
up being in every production that they did at that theater.
That year, he was a magician's assistant. He went from
it was everything from being a magician's assistant to having
a small part in a Victorian drama. So he was
like made for the theater. Then four years later, his
mother dies and his father abandons him, so he just

(56:54):
starts having to work just by himself as a young teen.
He works in a hotel and his coworkers one day
overhear him singing and they encourage him to enter a
talent contest and he does and he wins it, and
that's how he gets into vaudeville. So this was like
right at that time, or was the very beginning of

(57:17):
silent movies. This is when all of Los Angeles was
Orange Groves and then like three basically film studios, one
of which was Max Senet's Keystone Films, and Max Sennet's
Keystone Films was like huge, and that's they would just
go basically take people out of vaudeville and start making
movies of them. So like if you see you know,

(57:41):
very few people have seen that much of Fatty Arbuckle,
but like if you see any, and I highly recommend
that you do it. Like W. C. Field started in
vaudeville also, and when you start in vaudeville and you
work in vaudeville, you have to be able to do
this crazy shit. So it's like you have to be
an acrobat and you have to to like do slight
of hand and you have to kind of learn all

(58:03):
the things so that you can be any act. Basically,
like if you're a comedian back then, you kind of
had to be much more talented than you have to
be now to play to the back of the room, right,
And so like I mean, this is I only saw
the clips that they had in this documentary of Fatty Arbuckle,
but he was like fat, big and fat, but he

(58:25):
was super graceful and he could like kind of do anything,
and it was of course a lot of physical comedy,
but he would do these really funny things like he
would do a thing and trip and then he would
recover and do almost like a ballerina move. So it
was I laughed out loud during this documentary. Basically they
pull him out of vaudeville. He starts making short films

(58:46):
for mac Senet and he is basically kind of the
fat guy foil for like Charlie Chaplin. He becomes the
most popular comedian that make any of these films. People
love him, and then he start they let him start
directing his own He hired I believe, he's the first

(59:06):
person to hire I shouldn't say first person, but he's
one of the earliest people to work with and hire
Harold Lloyd and Buster Keaton, like, but he Buster Keaton
worked under him for a while. It was such a
crush on Buster Keaton. Buster Keaton is fucking amazing hot
and the big eyes yeah, and legitimately amazing yeah, I.

Speaker 1 (59:26):
Mean incredible yeah, and also hot.

Speaker 2 (59:29):
And well because like he did all those fucking stunts,
like he did them. Yea. They actually showed a clip
of a movie that was a very early fatty arbocal
movie and in it it was called Backstage, I believe,
and it was about these people that were like it
was like a silent film about a comedy about life
in the theater. But there's a part where he's sitting

(59:49):
there serenading a girl and the house the front of
the house falls down over him. That basically later on
Charlie Chaplin made famous and got super famous four and
it's basically like of Freddy Arbuckles. So it's sorry, it's
a little bit like he was one of the Ridge
original Kings of comedy. He started the tour. It was

(01:00:12):
his idea. So he becomes huge at Max Sennett Studios
or Keystone Studios, and he starts making a bunch of movies,
short movies with Mabel Mormon, who was a famous actress
at the time, and the two of them got crazy popular.
It was like it was super cute. They were like

(01:00:33):
husband and wife, and then they would it would just
be these little comedic kind of vignettes, and they got
so popular that they were asked. In nineteen fifteen, they
were asked to go to it was called the World's
Something Fair in San Francisco. So I don't know if
it was the World's Fair, the official one or like
a specific fair for something, yes, but they basically a

(01:00:57):
silent film was becoming this huge business. The film industry
was like exploding, and the pr industry around the film
industry was exploding.

Speaker 1 (01:01:06):
So like podcasts, exactly, you are finally figuring it out.

Speaker 2 (01:01:11):
They were like, what we are the new Mabel Norman
and Fatty Arbuckle.

Speaker 1 (01:01:16):
Yeah, do not say here too, your Mabel Arbuckle.

Speaker 2 (01:01:19):
On, I have Fatty Norman, nice, nice cop fair, very fair.
So uh. By the summer of nineteen twenty one, he
he had moved to Paramount Pictures. So I'm sure there
was some kind of like and I think this might
I don't know, in I have theories about this. He

(01:01:42):
moved from Max Sennett Studios to Paramount Pictures and he
got paid a million dollars a year.

Speaker 1 (01:01:49):
In that money that time. Yes, holy fuckballs, it is crazy.

Speaker 2 (01:01:54):
It's crazy. He signed a contract for three million dollars,
a three year contract for three million dollars to week.

Speaker 1 (01:01:59):
We got one of those right now.

Speaker 2 (01:02:01):
In this, I know it's like and back this was
fucking nineteen twenty like this was the Great Depression essentially,
or well ten years before. Yeah, but still like bananas money.
It was like back when people will be like, brother,
can you spare a dime? And that was like a
meaningful amount of money. So penny candy, he but button candy,

(01:02:26):
the most useless candy with pieces of paper stuck on
it that has ever been invented. So that contract was
for him to start in eighteen silent films in three years.
He uh, he had just made a movie called Crazy
to Marry Tell me about it, right, and it was

(01:02:50):
playing in theaters across the country, and he had, uh
I think he had just finished six feature length films
and months.

Speaker 1 (01:03:00):
Can you so fucking imagine?

Speaker 2 (01:03:02):
Yeah, that's bullshit. That's like you make a full on
movie a month. And then he's like, guys, I'm tired,
Let's go on.

Speaker 1 (01:03:09):
Vacation, take a nap.

Speaker 2 (01:03:10):
Bro. Yeah, so he's that was his plan. So him
and two of his friends decide they're going to drive
up to San Francisco to have like a weekend of fun.

Speaker 1 (01:03:18):
You know how long I'm sorry, how long I would
take to drive to San Francisco back then?

Speaker 2 (01:03:21):
Oh? Fuck, three million is a lot of money.

Speaker 1 (01:03:23):
It would take you fourteen and a half hours to
drive to San Francisco.

Speaker 2 (01:03:26):
It's that like, and there would be no gas. You'd
have to bring gas with you.

Speaker 1 (01:03:31):
I don't wind your car up. Did they do that stolen?

Speaker 2 (01:03:34):
That's right? It would take you twenty nine hours to
get up there. Twenty wines. It would take you so
much energy, all right, So there was no five back then, No,
there's no five for you. You were on that one
the whole time. Yep, okay. In the days leading up
to this weekend Fatty Hour Vocal was not in the

(01:03:55):
best of moods because he was having his Pierce Arrow
automobile serviced when he sat down on an acid soaked
rag at the garage and the acid burned through his
pants to his buttocks, causing second degree burns. The find
of acid and that he I don't know, I get

(01:04:16):
that's something that they did in the twenties, very common,
as acid rags were everywhere. So he wanted to cancel
the trip. But his friend, what's this guy's name? Al
fish Back? The fuck is his name? Where is it? Somebody?
Fish back? I'll find it?

Speaker 1 (01:04:34):
That ban.

Speaker 2 (01:04:36):
Said, No, we got to go. It's going to be fun.
We've already planned it. Whatever we've got what is burn
and have to sit for twenty nine hours? You know
what he did? He secured his friend fish Back, just
secured a rubber padded ring for our buckle to sit on.

Speaker 1 (01:04:49):
Can you secure a fuck yourself.

Speaker 2 (01:04:53):
For me to sit on? For me to sit on?
They made the drive up the coast to the San
Francis Hotel in San Francis? Is that nice?

Speaker 1 (01:05:00):
Have you been there?

Speaker 2 (01:05:01):
Very fancy has the best like lobby. It's the one
that's on Union Square at Christmas time. They have a
humongous Christmas tree and they have a great bar. I
want to go. We should totally go.

Speaker 1 (01:05:15):
We're going to Oakland.

Speaker 2 (01:05:16):
We have no time. We do not jump on that
bart to go sit in the bar at the Sant
Francis three minutes bye, everybody. But it's the kind of
place that, like, I don't know what the style is.
I would guess Art Deco, Georgian, Georgian, but it's the
ceilings are so high and it's so gorgeous.

Speaker 1 (01:05:35):
Yeah, I love that. Shit goes a lot of this.
So there's good spot.

Speaker 2 (01:05:38):
So that's where they are. They've got so they have
two rooms that are joined to a reception suite Jesus,
So basically party room in the center, two rooms off
the side. That's what we have books for our trip.
Is that how we're doing it the whole time, okay,
and then we're going to pick people. You can come
to the party suite.

Speaker 1 (01:05:57):
You can sit in the reception room. But you can't
come into this.

Speaker 2 (01:06:00):
You have to earn your way into the suite. Okay.
So Fishback arranged everything. Now it's prohibition era, okay, so
there's no legally there's no liquor. Sure, but San Francisco
is known as an open city, which meant there's fucking
liquor everywhere.

Speaker 1 (01:06:17):
He cups abound.

Speaker 2 (01:06:19):
That's right, Go San Francisco. Go. So they had. Fishback
has arranged the liquor to be delivered to the hotel room.
And on Labor Day, September fifth, nineteen twenty one, Fatty
Arbocal awakes to find that there are many uninvited guests
that at least uninvited from him in the reception room.

(01:06:40):
I'm annoying, so uh, and he also has a bunch
of work to do. And I guess he was. He
was up there like they were gonna have fun, but
he also I guess, had a meeting. Yeah, so he
was walking around in his pajamas when he saw that.
Like the basically the first thing that happened was his friends.

(01:07:04):
It's like, I want to say, Al Fishback and there's
another guy named low Low Lowman or something like.

Speaker 1 (01:07:10):
That, Alan Lowe fushback woman.

Speaker 2 (01:07:14):
So they went out and when they came back, they
were like, we just saw that actress. Uh it was
a woman named Victoria rap And they're like, we just
saw her in the hotel of a different in the
lobby of a different hotel, So we're going to bring
her over here. And uh so she comes over. A

(01:07:37):
couple other people, a woman named Maude Delmot shows up
after a little while. Now, mau Delmont had a very
bad reputation. She was known as, uh there's one guy
in this documentary who said she'd basically been arrested for
everything except murder. Wow. So she was known as a

(01:07:57):
a madam. She was known as a black mailer. She
was she had been arrested a bunch of time for fraud.

Speaker 1 (01:08:03):
This all sounds awesome right there. Gets like she's in
charge of her fucking destiny.

Speaker 2 (01:08:09):
A couple people's destinies. Actually, So she shows up after
I hope I can't see any of these names anymore.
My eyes are going insane. It's I want to say Victoria. Anyway,
the young pretty actress shows up, Maud shows up after

(01:08:30):
then a couple other people show up. It turns into
a party fati arical Arbuckle is basically like, I can't
fight this anymore whatever, and he starts drinking too. So
they're all drinking, and at one point one of his
friends who started the party, and Maude Delmont, go into
one of the adjacent bedroom's bathrooms and they're in there

(01:08:54):
for a while. And while they're in there and everybody
else is partying, Virginia rap who's been drinking with everybody
and hanging out and having a good time, gets nauseous
and gets feels sick, so she goes into that adjacent
bedroom to go into the bathroom to get sick, but
they're in there and they tell her to go into
the other bathroom, so she goes into what is basically

(01:09:16):
Fatty Arbuckle's bedroom, and she gets sick in that bathroom.
So Fatty Arbuckle realizes he has to go to this meeting,
so he goes in to take a shower, to shave
and shower whatever to get ready for the meeting, and
he finds Virginia on the floor in his bathroom, and
he assumes that she's just drunk and she can't handle
her liquor, and so he gets her up off the

(01:09:40):
floor and puts her on the bed, and then he
goes into the bathroom, shuts the door, takes a shower, shaves,
takes like ten minutes in there, gets ready, and when
he comes out, he sees that she's gotten sick again
on the bed. So at that point he goes out
into the party and says, I think this girl is
actually really sick. We should call a doctor or call somebody.

(01:10:00):
So they call a doctor. A doctor shows up, and
a little while later a female nurse shows up. They
you know, I was gonna say, inspect her. They look
at you know, give her the once over. What's the
word I'm looking? What are we looking for?

Speaker 1 (01:10:17):
Not inspect?

Speaker 2 (01:10:17):
Not the one?

Speaker 1 (01:10:18):
So not inspect and examine?

Speaker 2 (01:10:21):
They examine her. They examine her. There's she is not
she there's nothing wrong with her physically, she has no
bruises on her, she's not been hurt in any way.
But they see that she has a very bad fever
and she's in a lot of pain and she's got

(01:10:42):
the pain is coming from her stomach area, and so
they decide that she should go to a local hospital.
So they take her out of there. Like a couple
hours go by, I think, and then they finally they
finally get her out of there and they take her.
Eventually they find out that they had taken her to
a maternity hospital.

Speaker 1 (01:11:02):
She has a myth. Was she having a miscarriage?

Speaker 2 (01:11:04):
No. What they think is sorry that no, no no.
But what they think is that she was either had
she either her appendix burst or her bladder burst. But
they don't know because when the Corner finally got her
body after she died, she dies in hospital. She died
in the maternity hospital. Her body is brought back to

(01:11:27):
Los Angeles, I believe, or they did the Corner in
San Francisco, but I assume because she was an actress
in Los Angeles. When the body is inspected by the Corner,
all of her sex organs have been removed, so there's
nothing to look at. They don't know. There's no reason
for it. Also, they said, bringing a woman who was

(01:11:49):
sick in this in this way to the maternity hospital
was a super weird decision. She's not going to get
the things she needs exactly that she should have gone to,
like the general hospital. So she had she basically suffered
with whatever her internal illness was. Because they all assumed
she was drunk. They all just were like, Oh, it's

(01:12:10):
some kind of fluozy actress from La who is at this.

Speaker 1 (01:12:13):
Like too much, couldn't hold a liquor.

Speaker 2 (01:12:15):
Yeah, with this party that they shouldn't have even have
liquor in the first place, with all these actors and
Hollywood types, these sinful Hollywood types. So basically they don't know.
When they leave San Francisco, a Fatty and his friends,
they just know that she was sick and she got
taken to the hospital. They don't know anything else. So, uh,

(01:12:41):
he gets a call from the San Francisco police saying,
this girl died. Can you come up and answer some questions?
And he's like, of course, So he goes up to
San Francisco to answer some questions, and what he doesn't
know is that Maude Dumont Delmonte had told the lease

(01:13:02):
that our Buckle had raped Virginia Rap and that she
had that that Maud had heard her screaming in the
other room, that she knocked on the door and when
and kicked on it, And after delay, our Buckle came
to the door in his pajamas wearing wraps, hat cocked

(01:13:22):
at an angle, smiling, and behind him Rap was sprawled
on the bed and moaning, and she said that our
fatty had said to the actress, I've waited for you
for five years and now I've got you. So uh.
And then basically she's told the police he did it.

(01:13:44):
He attacked her, and that because he forced himself on her,
that caused her bladder to burst and that's why she
was in that situation. So uh, Fatty Arbuckles like went
up there to be like, yeah, here's what happened. Meanwhile,

(01:14:05):
there were like a handful of witnesses that witnessed the
first way I told it to you. They all watched
him walk in, like, watched her walk into the other room,
come back out, go into the other room by herself,
watched him walk in after her and then come back
out like put her on the bed, come back out like.
All the doors were open. Also, maud Delmont was in

(01:14:28):
the bathroom of the other bedroom with the door closed,
fucking his friend. So there's no way she could have
heard her screaming, and no one else that was in
the middle room closer to her her screaming at all.
And they all attested to that. But the problem was
not only was it prohibition, but the film industry was

(01:14:51):
coming under a lot of scrutiny because there were and
they were showing clips of like movies where a man
looked at a woman's ankle and they both give each
other like the eye. So there's like this. It was
pre Hays code, so it's it's like exactly, So there
there's a lot of people in the country that are
like alcohol is is of the devil, and so are

(01:15:13):
movie so silent films, and he's basically the king of
all of it, making a ship ton of money off
of it. So this the district attorney in San Francisco
was a man named Matthew Brady, and he saw this
case who it was, what the scenario was, as the
perfect political uh situation for himself because he wanted to

(01:15:36):
get in to have a career in politics, and he
knew if he could put Fatty Arbuckle away as this
rapist and basically headlines exactly and also kind of like
alcohol was part of it, and that's another reason, and
just like all the whole mix was the perfect.

Speaker 1 (01:15:52):
Bottle of alcohol being the fucking murder weapon, the wine
bottle that he supposed.

Speaker 2 (01:15:59):
To oh right, yeah, exactly. That was gossip that actually
came out way later. That didn't that didn't come in,
but him like basically using his body and smashing it,
like smashing her to death. The whole thing was so
it kind of also perfect because he was such when

(01:16:19):
you see his face, it's just this big smile. He
looks like a big moon face guy. All of his
comedy was really light and cutesy, and so to be like, oh,
this guy's a monster was perfect for all of the
tabloid rags. And William Randolph Hurst had basically had a
field day with this story. They had just been it.

(01:16:40):
The newspapers that came out about Fatty Arbuckle and this
rape and murder sold more than this. When this lusitania
sank like it was it. It was the hugest story
and they never stopped. They they actually took there was
the Saratrisco Police released a picture of Fatty Arbuckle when
they were like, now you're under arrest, and he was

(01:17:02):
just like, sorry, what I came up here to answer
your questions. So it's this picture of him standing there
just looking completely like what the fuck? And they took
the picture, released it and that went straight into the tabloids.
And then the next picture they did. They actually early
version photoshopped so it's him standing there looking off and

(01:17:22):
they photoshopped bars in front of him so it looked
like a reporter got in and took a picture of
him sitting in jail, which they never did. So basically,
they tried and convicted him in the newspaper and people
couldn't get enough of the story because it was one
of the first big Hollywood scandals. I mean, I think
it may have been the first big Hollywood scandal. And

(01:17:42):
it was so graphic and so terrible that I mean,
that's so Anyway, the problem was that when they get
in to get all their witnesses and their stories for trial,
maug Delmont cannot keep her story straight. So she had

(01:18:03):
told them at first that she and Virginia rap were
lifelong friends. Then the next time that they talked to her,
she says that they just met days before the party. Also,
they discovered then that she has this insane criminal record.
A lot of people know her as Madame Black. She
had procured women for parties where she knew wealthy male

(01:18:27):
guests would find themselves accused of rape and blackmailed blackmailed
into paying her. So that was basically her whole thing
that she did. Second, Yet then there was the matter
of the fact that there were telegrams that she had
sent to attorneys in both San Diego and Los Angeles
that read, we have Roscoe Arbuckle in a hole here,

(01:18:51):
chance to make some money out of him?

Speaker 1 (01:18:53):
Holy shit.

Speaker 2 (01:18:54):
Yeah. But even though he knew he knew those facts,
he still took the case to trial. And those newspapers
never questioned Delmont's version of the events or ever talked
about her background or how what an unreliable witness she was.
They just went after him relentlessly, and Buster Keaton and

(01:19:18):
Charlie Chaplin vouched for his character and tried to speak
out for him, but it was too late, and his
reputation was in shambles. Also, Fatty Arbuckle's lawyers introduced medical
evidence showing that Rap had had a chronic bladder condition,
and her autopsy concluded that there were no marks of

(01:19:39):
violence on her body. There were no signs that she
had been attacked in any way. But the defense wouldn't let,
sorry the prosecution wouldn't let the doctor who had treated
Rap at the hotel testify because she had told the
doctor that Arbuckle had not tried to sexually assault her,

(01:20:03):
but the prosecutor got that point dismissed as hearsay, So
that was not sorry. Yeah, so that didn't get in
at all. And meanwhile, the defense was going to call
witnesses that had damaging information about R. Junior Raps past,
and Fatty Arbuckle would not let them testify out of

(01:20:25):
respect for the dead, he said. So he took the
stand in his own defense, and jurors voted ten to
two for his acquittal.

Speaker 1 (01:20:35):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (01:20:37):
Right, So there were two people that were holding out,
And so then the prosecution tried him a second time.
The jury deadlocked again, and it wasn't until his third
trial that Fatty Arbuckle allowed his attorneys to call the
witnesses who had known Rap to the stand. And that
was only because his funds were depleted. He had spent

(01:20:58):
seven hundred thousand dollars on his defense. His career was dead.
They testified that Rapp had suffered previous abdominal attacks, drank heavily,
often disrobed at parties after doing so, was promiscuous, and
had an illegitimate daughter, which.

Speaker 1 (01:21:17):
None of whiches, none of whiches, only the first one
is relevant.

Speaker 2 (01:21:22):
The drinking and the abdominal attacker was relevant, but at
that point they were like, it's a character assassination and
a just attack. One of them also attacked maud Delmont
as the complaining witness that never witnessed, So they're basically
up there saying that woman saw nothing, and yet she
was your main witness. But those were the only people

(01:21:43):
that could say that, and he hadn't let them say
it up until that point. So on April twelfth, nineteen
twenty two, the jury acquitted our Buckle of manslaughter and
after deliberating for five.

Speaker 1 (01:21:54):
Minutes, Jesus, oh that poor dude. Yeah, poor woman.

Speaker 2 (01:21:59):
After after a week later, Will Hayes, for whom the
motion feature industry hired as a censor to restore its image,
because this was such a huge scandal that, like the
entire motion picture industry, was rocked, and Will Hayes banned
Fatty Arbuckle from ever appearing on screen again. He would

(01:22:22):
change his mind eight months later, but the damage had
already been done, and our Buckle changed his name to
William B. Goodrich or will be good and he worked
behind the scenes directing films for friends who were made
loyal to him, barely earning a living in the only
business he had ever known, and a little more than
ten years later, in nineteen thirty three, he had a

(01:22:44):
heart attack and died in his hotel room. He was
forty six.

Speaker 1 (01:22:48):
Holy fuck, yeah, wow, yeah, that's really fucking depressing.

Speaker 2 (01:22:55):
I didn't know.

Speaker 1 (01:22:56):
It was like there was so much evidence that he hadn't.

Speaker 2 (01:23:00):
I know, it's weird, like no one talks about that. Well.
I think it's like why that guy was all fired
up at the beginning of that special, But then when
you actually hear it, it's that thing that makes perfect
sense because it's like the early days of like getting
people over a barrel and blackmailing it and takes me.

Speaker 1 (01:23:18):
See laws and all this crap. It makes me, you know,
it makes me sad. I feel like if Virginia had lived,
she would have fucking blown this off so much and
been like this never. You know, it's like sad when
it's like you're not doing justice for the victim. You're
just it's not you're not helping the victim by accusing

(01:23:39):
Faddy Arbuckle of doing this.

Speaker 2 (01:23:40):
Yeah, it has nothing to do with the victim. She's
just taking advantage of like a horrible scenario.

Speaker 1 (01:23:45):
It's just bullshit at that point.

Speaker 2 (01:23:47):
And also the idea that that woman was even invited
to that party when she's like a known criminal. In
my mind, it's like I think there's and I bet
you if I did one hour more, there's probably a
lot of information about it, but there's probably a really
good chance he was getting set up if he was
like making the most amount of money in show business.

Speaker 1 (01:24:09):
It sounds like that's what she did.

Speaker 2 (01:24:11):
Well, it's what she did definitely, but like somebody probably
had it out for him, yeah, and wanted to bring
him down specifically for some reason.

Speaker 1 (01:24:18):
Was it his friend who insisted that he comes with
him to San Francisco.

Speaker 2 (01:24:22):
Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (01:24:22):
Oh, I get it. I fucked up man, Yeah, yeah, okay,
we're back. It's an old case. But any updates, Uh,
I don't have any updates.

Speaker 2 (01:24:35):
There's I do have several bits of business, of course,
because you can always do a corrections corner, even from
across the decades.

Speaker 1 (01:24:42):
That's what's beautiful, Like you can always in your life
remember that.

Speaker 2 (01:24:46):
Yes, it's never too late to say I'm sorry. Yeah,
two friends in San Francisco with Fatty Arbuckle. Their names
were Fred Fishback and Lowell Sherman. Thank god you cleared
that up. And I genuinely am sorry from the bottom
of my heart.

Speaker 1 (01:25:00):
The audience has been waiting for you.

Speaker 2 (01:25:02):
They're just like and you better apologize.

Speaker 1 (01:25:05):
My grandpa Lowell is turning and is.

Speaker 2 (01:25:07):
Great, I said in the original Al Fishback and another
guy possibly named low Lowman al Fishback.

Speaker 1 (01:25:16):
That's a good fucking name.

Speaker 2 (01:25:17):
Al Fishback is would be a good name for like
a line of clothing, al Fishbacks.

Speaker 1 (01:25:23):
My stepdad wears it. Love.

Speaker 2 (01:25:26):
Okay. So there have been biopics for this story discussed
over the years. You know, people have pitched it for
Chris Farley, for Louis Anderson, rip the Great Louis Anderson, credible,
wonderful man, Eric stone Street from Modern Family. They've all
been attached, but a full feature film has never been made.

(01:25:50):
But there of course have been nods to the Fatty
Arbuckle kind of story throughout media over the years, you know,
lots of times as as a joke, but it's actually
kind of a tragic thing. It's like his name is forever.
Forgive me for using the word besmirched, but it is.
It's like that name always means a disgusting kind of

(01:26:12):
sexual assault and it isn't true.

Speaker 1 (01:26:16):
He was featured in that show that we loved called
not Matt Locke, A crime to Remember, not a crime
to remember? Probably that one too, but I'm thinking of
the one where he.

Speaker 2 (01:26:26):
Was the lawyer yep, Old Ironsides, where he's so cute.
What's called back in La La lawyer?

Speaker 1 (01:26:34):
No, it's he goes on guy, he go Yeah, he
goes on stand and his name.

Speaker 2 (01:26:38):
Is his name. The lawyer's name is the name of
the TV show. It's on HBO. It has it had
the best opening graphics of all time. Remember that it
would come up and then it would be like the
City Bard.

Speaker 3 (01:26:50):
Yeah, are you talking about Perry Mason, Harry Mason, Perry Mason,
Thank god, we got that name right, Outfit Storry, alfishback
and pair.

Speaker 2 (01:27:02):
And Low Lowman, well Low Loman.

Speaker 1 (01:27:04):
Sure that's the Dad's dad. That's good. I love that show.

Speaker 2 (01:27:10):
That's the one that has to come back at first
season three for sure, for sure. I might rewatch season
two now that you're if you insist, okay, we're about
to listen to the end of episode fifty six. We
do our good things.

Speaker 1 (01:27:23):
Oh yeah, this is cute. I like that. Do we
have a good thing this week? Do you see that
thing right there, room by? That's my good thing this week.
It's the best thing that's ever happened. No, it's great,

(01:27:44):
I'm serious.

Speaker 2 (01:27:45):
We talk about it. It's a room by.

Speaker 1 (01:27:47):
It's a vacuum that you and your cats follow around
my house and just watch and cheer on.

Speaker 2 (01:27:53):
So what you just said it and it just vacuums
while you do other stuff or while you follow and
watch it. How long does it take?

Speaker 1 (01:28:01):
Well, however long you want it. You said it, and
forget it. I'm serious. It's like and it gets all
this cat hair and we all follow it around.

Speaker 2 (01:28:10):
That's great. Wow, I know what about you.

Speaker 1 (01:28:14):
I'm just staring at this room, that room of the
whole time, not like actively staring at it, but lovingly
gazing at it.

Speaker 2 (01:28:23):
What. Oh well, I think I told you this personally,
but or maybe I talked about it. I can't remember.
But I went to see the Zodiac. Did I talk
about that on the miniso? No?

Speaker 1 (01:28:33):
You talk about to me at lunch yesterday.

Speaker 2 (01:28:35):
Okay, that's good. Good, Okay, So sin a family, which
is the movie theater in town that shows rad things
often and that I love and need to rejoin. I
was a member for a year and then I was
like I never go to the movies, Like why am
I doing this? And then it's like, oh, because support
keep businesses open that do shit. That's awesome, And that's

(01:28:56):
a perfect example because it's so cheap to be a member,
and then they do things like this, which is they reap.
They did a special showing of the movie Zodiac, so
cool and it is the best movie. I keep thinking
about it because when you see it in the theater,
like the sound was really good and that theater is
really small. The used that movie that theater used to

(01:29:18):
be called the Silent Movie Theater, which is kind of hilarious.

Speaker 1 (01:29:20):
Whucking shot that Kilden.

Speaker 2 (01:29:22):
Yes, did I ever tell you that story of that.
They did a benefit at Largo for the for the guy.
It was two. It was a gay couple that ran
the Silent Theater and one got shot by an ex employee.
Right well, they did this benefit. They raised money for
the guy that that was still alive, and then that

(01:29:44):
guy got arrested because it was he had his lover murdered.
Uh huh, okay, whoops, uh huh that money back? Yeah.
I love that story because flant Again and John Brian
they were down the street at Largo and they were like,
oh my god, this terrib thing happened this man. We
have to raise money. And they did this whole huge

(01:30:04):
like they kept talking about it on all the shows
and they made all these special shows to raise money
for the silent movie theater guy who was the criminal
in the first place. Anyway, if you get a chance,
and I don't know how, you would, to see the
movie Zodiac on the big screen. It is so it's
such a perfect movie. Yeah, I haven't seen that in
so long, but it's a great movie. It's so good.

(01:30:26):
That's awesome. Yeah, yeah, that was super fun.

Speaker 1 (01:30:32):
I have an update on my roomba situation. Oh yeah,
do not get a room but if you have cats,
because cats like to barf everywhere. Oh and the room
but will just slide right over that. That was the
last room but I owned, and I'm devastating because I
want one so bad and I I did. I totally

(01:30:53):
forgot that the cats and I would follow it around.
It was fucking fascinating. We were all just like for God.

Speaker 2 (01:31:00):
So excited, and then suddenly the room was like, wait,
is this my job too. It's like the Flintstones when
like the garbage just bose a little sassy or whatever. Yes,
your room. But's like, I'm not eating cat.

Speaker 1 (01:31:12):
If I get oh, you can't do it. It's just
such a It's just like a thing you know that
you can't. You can't knit and sew and have a
roomba if you have a cat, period.

Speaker 2 (01:31:21):
Everyone, those things are not your those options are not
for you.

Speaker 1 (01:31:24):
No, shut up, mem Mimi says, I'm still here in
twenty twenty five. Motherfuckers.

Speaker 2 (01:31:32):
Mimi's like, guess what I am here to say? Goodbye?
I mean, should we wrap it up? Is that Mimi's cue?

Speaker 1 (01:31:37):
Let's do it, Mimi's immortal, let's wrap it up. If
we were naming this today, this episode today, if it
wasn't called service Poodle, perhaps we would call it.

Speaker 2 (01:31:46):
Well, I would name it Mimi's Immortal. I mean that's
a that's a great title right there.

Speaker 1 (01:31:50):
Yeah, so good. What about it's a roomba.

Speaker 2 (01:31:54):
I mean it's obviously it's got to be that one.

Speaker 1 (01:31:57):
Mimi's Immortal, and it's a rumba for the front runners.

Speaker 2 (01:32:01):
Yeah, that was good. That was a good one. That
was fun times on that episode.

Speaker 1 (01:32:04):
Thanks for listening to rewind you guys. We appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (01:32:07):
Yes, and uh, we're gonna let old us say goodbye
to you so that Elvis can say goodbye and Mimi
and Memi.

Speaker 1 (01:32:18):
Follow us on things. Stephen Ray Morse the pocast, thank
you for being our guide through this fucking trippy and
don't get murdered.

Speaker 2 (01:32:34):
Bye, Elvis. Do you want to cookie? Mimi?

Speaker 1 (01:32:40):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (01:32:42):
Oh, the new one? Elvis. Do you want a cookie? Oh? Hi,
I mean he wants one? Dude, Okay,

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Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 56: Service Poodle

Episode Transcript

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Georgia Hardstark

Karen Kilgariff

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 56: Service Poodle