QLS Classic: Musiq Soulchild

On May 31, Musiq Soulchild is celebrating 25 years of Aijuswanaseing at the 2025 Roots Picnic in his hometown of Philadelphia. Use this reason to look back at Musiq's 2020 interview with Questlove Supreme. This conversation was real, raw, and soulful — just like the guest. This is not an episode to miss.

 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio.

Speaker 2 (00:11):
So at the end of this month May thirty, first,
we have Music Soul Child celebrating twenty five years of
I Just Want to Sing at the twenty twenty five
Moots Picnic. We still have some tickets ability, but as
you gear up for that, listen back to twenty twenty
for this interview. It's two hours long and covers all
the damn basis. All right, So to keep it a

(00:32):
buck with you in the history of this podcast, you
know that meme where people are just they look each
other in the eye and you already know, like, all right,
I'm gonna tell y'all of all the episodes of Quest
Love Supreme, if one of them embodies the meme brugh bruh,

(00:56):
then it's the Music Soul Child episode.

Speaker 1 (01:00):
That's all we can say.

Speaker 2 (01:01):
Anytime we mentioned the Music Soul Child, oh music was
on the q LS. Fante will be the first of
beak bruh. This This is a certified five star.

Speaker 1 (01:15):
Bruh m hm.

Speaker 2 (01:29):
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another episode of q LS.
What's Love Supreme? I me know what's love with us today?
Of course, ladies, person yeah, hello.

Speaker 1 (01:41):
Hey Brown, we got sugar, Steve or sugar.

Speaker 3 (01:51):
We also got about you.

Speaker 1 (01:55):
Know, y'all can't see him right now, but fresh cut
fake man. I'm happy. I'm happy too. I'm happy too.

Speaker 4 (02:02):
I don't know what I'm gonna get the next because
the numbers keep going up, but I'm gonna just hold
on the one as long as i can. Shout out
to the states Man and we were doing good.

Speaker 1 (02:13):
I ain't about to put his own good.

Speaker 4 (02:17):
We was holding we was doing I and then it
just this ship is all helped.

Speaker 2 (02:21):
Then celebration. No, you can't celebrate too early. Bill, how's
it going?

Speaker 1 (02:26):
Fantastic? Now here's the Hamptons with the children. That's good.

Speaker 2 (02:31):
I will say that, you know, especially based on the
the buzz of the Jill Scott episode, that these Philadelphia
conversations couldn't have come at a better time.

Speaker 1 (02:42):
It's only a matter of.

Speaker 2 (02:43):
Time before we dip back into the pool of neo
genius for another go round. And our guest today he
burst upon the scene back in two thousand, probably with
the most unlikeliest, charmingest platonic black anthem of all time,

(03:06):
and the hits kept rolling and rolling.

Speaker 1 (03:09):
Uh nine or ten albums Deep.

Speaker 2 (03:11):
I believe it's nine albums Deep, thirteen Grammy nominations, and
I gotta stay okay. This this is the college word
drop of the day, probably the man that has done
the most for Manda Green spelling.

Speaker 5 (03:25):
Yeah, oh that's what that's called.

Speaker 2 (03:27):
It's called Manda Green. Yes, it's based on a poem.
I forget the person did a poem. But when you
when you spell and jumble words together, it's mondagree, so.

Speaker 1 (03:41):
Monda Green King.

Speaker 2 (03:42):
Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome to quest Love Supreme Music, Soul,
the soul child.

Speaker 1 (03:52):
What's up? Brother?

Speaker 4 (03:53):
Where are you?

Speaker 1 (03:53):
Where are you right now?

Speaker 4 (03:55):
I'm in the A. I'm in Atlanta.

Speaker 1 (03:58):
How long have you been in Atlanta? When did you
do us? When did you leave Philly?

Speaker 4 (04:02):
I left, y'all? You said it right, I don't hear either.
I love you, shut up.

Speaker 5 (04:13):
I know when I was alonging to both of y'all.

Speaker 1 (04:16):
You don't even claim Philly. You claim everywhere but Philly.

Speaker 5 (04:20):
That's not true. I claim Philly. Do you claim Philly music?

Speaker 4 (04:23):
I claimed Philly when it's appropriate. I claim Philly when
it's appropriate, because it's true. It's part of my timeline.
It's not anything that I can get away from or
even want to get away from. However, it's very real
that I left for a lot of reasons. You know,
I love my people, but my people ain't all the where,

(04:45):
all the way together. Philadelphia is not necessarily the you know,
as a timeline of mental health.

Speaker 5 (04:51):
We're about to tell it today, okay.

Speaker 4 (04:53):
And I I just thought the property value was better
in Atlanta.

Speaker 1 (04:59):
I'm I'm about to learn a lesson.

Speaker 4 (05:02):
Okay, you know what I'm saying. Well, I can only
speak for my timeline. I can't speak for the whole city.
I can only speak for my timeline, my immediate circle.
What was happening in my world and what infiltrated my world,
you know what I'm saying. So according to that, I
had to make decisions that I thought was better for me,
for my peace of mind and my mental health. And
you know, but you can't say that in interviews because

(05:23):
they like music. You're like, no, that's not what's happening.
It's just that I'm just being honest with my reality,
you know. And I had to make sense of it,
especially being thrusted into the music business with no real guidance,
no real backup. No real support, no real nurturing, no
real nothing, and I have to figure it out on
my own. And then, you know, I can't be bothered

(05:46):
with people tracking me down and like being on my
doorstep like like.

Speaker 3 (05:52):
No, I gotta go, that's you, I gotta go. I'm
never whome that that was, you know, everyone living in
my house but me.

Speaker 1 (06:05):
So no, I understand that very much. So like sometimes
you gotta go.

Speaker 2 (06:10):
You know, I've been I've been in New York for
ten years now, and I'm only just getting comfortable with
letting Philly know that I do not live.

Speaker 1 (06:20):
In Philly anymore.

Speaker 2 (06:23):
You know, there's always this thing that you know, this
invisible you can't leave.

Speaker 4 (06:28):
Well Philly put to you. But I think it's a
But I think it's a different thing for you, you
know what I'm saying, And and and your entire crew,
particularly you and and Reap. But it's y'all represented Philly,
you know what I'm saying. So I think it's it's y'all.
Had to be a little more cautious because people associated

(06:49):
Philly with y'all. People didn't necessarily associate Philly with me.
They knew I was from Philly, but that wasn't such.

Speaker 1 (06:56):
It wasn't on your sleeve.

Speaker 4 (06:57):
It wasn't on my sleeve. Y'all put to sleep, y'all
put Philly on y'all back, y'all carried Philly. You know what,
I understand your position is different than mine. Like I
can slip away and be like, hey, ain't you from Philly? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, yeah,
I'm from Philly, you know. But then it's a different
conversation where it's like, bro, you are Philly. Where are you?

Speaker 1 (07:18):
Where were you born?

Speaker 4 (07:20):
What part of Philly I was born in? I don't
want to say it, no please, Yeah, in West Philadelphia?

Speaker 1 (07:32):
So where's I wait? Where in West Philly? I never
knew that. I've known you for the longest, and did
I know you were a.

Speaker 4 (07:37):
West Philadelphia That's another conversation for another day. Uh, I'm here, okay,
I love you though. I love you though fifty second
in Gerard that area, yeah yeah. And my people's actually
didn't find out about So this is about to be
a rabbit hole, but I'm gonna sent it up.

Speaker 1 (07:57):
That's what we're for.

Speaker 4 (08:00):
And there's my dad's side, you know what I'm saying.
My mom's side is actually from North Philly. My mom's
side is from you know, seventeenth Jefferson nineteenth and Master
Dolphins or Squehanna, all of that. My dad is also
around from their twenty first and Woodstock, all in that area,
which is funny how they met, you know, because and
they're both last names of Johnson. Like anyway, But my dad,

(08:24):
Dad's side, you know, he's from you know, as far
as I know, he's from fifty fifth and popular, you know,
around in that area.

Speaker 1 (08:32):
You know.

Speaker 4 (08:33):
So I was actually raised when I was a kid
over near Gerard and popular, but like on fifty second.
But then as I got older, I started moving around
to my other family, my aunts and uncles and cousins
and them and all of that. That's why when people
ask me what part of phil are you from? I
can't necessarily claim one part because I spent a substantial

(08:53):
amount of time in multiple places where I can't say
that I'm I'm strictly west Philly, was strictly south, was
strictly north. I can't say that because I spent way
too much time all over Philly, Wow, Germantown, nice town,
like I spent Philly, you know, all over the place.

Speaker 1 (09:12):
I am I'm fifty second of no sage.

Speaker 4 (09:16):
Hey, yeah you move?

Speaker 1 (09:20):
Actually did you? Did you?

Speaker 2 (09:21):
Did you know that it's been re christened as Chestnut
Not I'm sorry Walnut Hill.

Speaker 1 (09:34):
Gentrification. Why why why why? I don't know.

Speaker 2 (09:38):
I uh I did my uh my, my drive through
the old spot. I'll say that every June. Speaking of which,
big big up on doing the picnic with us.

Speaker 4 (09:50):
Oh so yeah, yeah, thanks for thinking of me. Thank
you appreciate that will come.

Speaker 2 (09:55):
And I know I'm just but I'm just saying that
when we were scouting looking at when we were headed
to do our part of the picnic at the man. Uh,
you know, I do my usual two hour drive through
the old neighborhood, ghosts and whatnot. Yeah, and that's when
I discovered it, Like I discovered No, you look for

(10:15):
those sit and you want to see what's still standing
and what's not standing.

Speaker 4 (10:24):
Yeah, for moments.

Speaker 2 (10:25):
Yeah, well of course, you know, fifty second Street was
hit badly by the riot. So this is the most
dilapidated I've ever seen that block in my in my
fifty yeah, no, I.

Speaker 4 (10:38):
Saw it on instant. I was like, y'all just go
and treat fifty second Street like that, bro, But yeah,
I don't.

Speaker 1 (10:45):
Know it's for me though.

Speaker 2 (10:47):
I even I wasn't discouraged, only because, like I mean,
I have a personal dream, Like I think my life
cooled dream is to pull a Kenny Gamble, like refurbish
it and.

Speaker 1 (11:01):
That thing. So I think this is.

Speaker 4 (11:04):
Leg Philly legacy.

Speaker 2 (11:05):
Well yeah, yeah, I dream of I've always dreamed of that,
and we've actually had our first me to reakan my manager,
Sean had a kind of like our first conversation of now.

Speaker 4 (11:16):
That if anybody would be perfect for that, it would
be y'all. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (11:22):
Yeah, well so so we're we're talking about our our
third phase. Now what's our legacy? But so, well, it's
good to know that we share a fifty second street
in common.

Speaker 4 (11:35):
Yeah, I still I still have my dad, my stepdad
used to have a table there on on market second Market.

Speaker 2 (11:46):
You know, yo, listen, No, No, it's only because you
just said a lot.

Speaker 4 (11:55):
Just's you just said a whole lot, bro.

Speaker 2 (11:58):
It's only because I just recently, so as of the speaking,
I've been DJing a lot of Jackson's on my DJ sets,
and I'm trying to explain to people that I feel
as the Thriller did so much for the street vendor
in a way that I never saw street vendors ever

(12:21):
in my life until the phenomena of Thriller.

Speaker 1 (12:23):
So like.

Speaker 4 (12:26):
Sold itself. It was like crack bro.

Speaker 2 (12:28):
Yeah, and you know there was just a point where
I mean, after Thriller, then it came like the boot
leke tapes and the oils and everything.

Speaker 1 (12:37):
The idea to.

Speaker 4 (12:38):
Answer your question, h.

Speaker 6 (12:42):
He's so well, he didn't sell incense and oils. He
sold Michael Jackson stuff.

Speaker 4 (12:47):
No lady, So okay, that's what you do. But along
with the you know, the pirated you know, a couple
of tapes.

Speaker 1 (13:00):
Ready you know you guys.

Speaker 7 (13:03):
License and he had that, he had that blue Now
look for an.

Speaker 4 (13:08):
Expect you and you gotta break the table down because
you know you're not all the way legit because was crazy.
It's a whole I've been hustling since, been hustling.

Speaker 5 (13:21):
Bro, hustling. That's right. You had the name.

Speaker 4 (13:26):
Oh we don't we don't want to piss off, so
let's not have that. Want to talk about whatever we
talk about it, let's do that was a shot. Listen,
you completely missed it, but it was collected towards I

(13:47):
was like a little love jab you know. Yeah, it
was the Hustle. It was he had his record, the Hustle.
I was not a fan of the Hustle. However, you
know what you want to wait what I was a
fan of that? I thought you would it went harder on?
Was the Purple one Purple one music? One second? One second?

(14:08):
So we're confusing the whole chat right now. So let's
like thecket one thing at all time. Okay, okay, you
want to know why you didn't fool with the hustle.
I mean, I'm sure that that's it's mildly rhetorical because
I know, I know you know why you did it.
But let me tell you the other side why you
did it. Okay, all right, it's it's like you hating

(14:31):
on a baby for not knowing how to drive. Oh,
it wasn't anything yet.

Speaker 5 (14:37):
But the baby shouldn't be listen.

Speaker 4 (14:39):
Okay, okay, okay, okay, So very spicy episode. The baby
wants to drive, The baby doesn't understand, it doesn't have
the wherewithal to manage that machinery.

Speaker 1 (14:54):
But the baby wants to drive.

Speaker 4 (14:58):
What the baby did and if if you can follow me,
if you can pass what a baby did would say, hey,
can someone help me learn how to drive? And everybody
and their mama was like no, get the fuck out
the car, and all.

Speaker 5 (15:12):
The professional drivers like yourself. Fonte was like.

Speaker 4 (15:15):
No, no, no, no, no, no, no no to In their defense,
they should have been like that, like, fam, this is
not your space. I'm not feeling this. You should stick
to what you're good at, right, But you can't tell
a creative person who has a natural motivation to want

(15:36):
to get into something else. I've been trying to get
into that and then move in to Atlanta and that's
all you here. So I wanted to try my hand
in it. Okay, I'd be the first one to tell
you it was trash, but I didn't know that it
was trash at the time because I really want to
do it, you know what I'm saying. And he's not
the only person that was like no, I'm not feeling that.

(15:57):
A lot of people told me no. That's why you
don't really hear about it that much, because I sinsed
and desist. I'm a you know, gather the data, and
I'm a I'm a figure out and if I can
find a way how to represent it.

Speaker 6 (16:09):
I'll represent it, but for people to cucle back to
you though, and no matter what, like you were allowed
to make if you want to call it the mistake.
And still people was like, but I foxed with him,
so yeah, he'sace.

Speaker 4 (16:20):
I didn't take it. I didn't take it no way
in general. In the moment though, it was so crushing
because of how much I looked up to the homie
and in the moment, I didn't think about it in
the way that I'm communicating it right now. I looked
at it as yoah fam hayten. You know what I'm saying.
I thought we was boys, you know what I'm saying,
not realizing that in his own respective way, it was

(16:43):
like tough love, Like no, that's why I but I
fox with this, you know what I'm saying. But I
was in my emotional space that I was like, man,
you know what I'm saying. So that's all that was.
I was just kind of like spoke since then, so
this is the first time we're actually even interacting with

(17:03):
each other comments you know, yeah, this is now. This
was the first time that like we like like taught
each other, like seeing each other since at all that's
been years, man, Like, I mean when we went out
to dinner, like that was forever ago. We went out
to dinner, it was like what thirteen twelve or thirteen
something like that, something.

Speaker 1 (17:23):
Like that, that was a minute ago. But yeah, but yeah.

Speaker 4 (17:25):
The Hustle records, I mean, I didn't like them, but
I understood, like you were saying, like, you just have
different outlets of yourself you want to express. So the
Hulso I didn't like. But the Purple Wonderulf I heard that.
I was like, dude, you could just put this out
as music because that living life and man's gorgeous, like
I love the words are free like all that. I

(17:46):
was like, thank you, But I like, like, Nigga, this
is it. I know. But but the equivalent of people
telling me that just calling music, it's like saying, like
you have another kid and say, why don't you just
call them the same name you gave the other.

Speaker 1 (17:57):
Kids to you?

Speaker 2 (17:58):
You felt like a difference. I felt likeage. You felt
like you would damage your not damage the brand, but
at least that the portal.

Speaker 1 (18:07):
That was music.

Speaker 4 (18:10):
I wanted to leave it alone. I didn't want to
confuse the narrative because I want to be creative because
I had, because you got to remember, you got to
think about it. Actually, Rather at that time, I was
getting so much pushback, you know what I'm saying, and
so much feedback and so much shit. This is before
social media was really popping popping, you know what I'm saying.
This is just all radio. So these were my relationships

(18:33):
with people and promoters. These are my relationships with people
that I engage with for the bag. So I don't
personally care about what y'all think, but I have to
professionally care about what y'all think because it affects my
bottom line. So to not be the dude that's like, man,
y'all don't know what y'all talking about, because you do.

(18:53):
It's literally your job, you know what I'm saying, So
I have to respect it to some degree. But at
the same time, I got to stand on my own
like I gotta stand on my shit, like I gotta
stand on like I know what I'm talking about. At
that time, I've been added for about a good, cool,
you know, decade and change, So you mean to tell
me I don't know what I'm talking about. So I

(19:14):
didn't have the wherewithal to figure that out. So just
to answer your question, so, yeah, there is some element
of Okay, I'm not even gonna mess with what's already established,
you know what I'm saying. I'm just gonna focus on
trying to which I wasn't really there yet because I
was really on some fuck I don't want to do
this no more because so I had to work through
that and that took me years, you know what I'm saying.

(19:36):
But in the meantime, since I'm in Atlanta, I'm being
constantly influenced by the sound of Atlanta, which was that
turned up you know, trappy whatever, whatever, And people kept
asking me like, yo, what you think about this? What
you think as if to say, but like baiting me
for confirmation that I'm supposed to say, Yeah, that's trash.
These kids shouldn't be doing that. That's not real music.

(19:57):
Why they use an auto tune like that? But I
was like, no, not only am I I'm not gonna
not do that. I'm actually doubled down, and as a
show of solidarity, I'm gonna try my hand in it
because I can't speak on something that I don't do.
So I said, let me go ahead and do it.
You know now, I had a whole lot of things
working against me, because one, I couldn't talk the same

(20:17):
talk that they talk because I don't I don't walk
that wall.

Speaker 1 (20:19):
You don't live that life.

Speaker 4 (20:20):
I don't live that life. But I have lived a life,
and you have lived a life. And that's where the
name hustle comes from, because regardless of what you're doing,
you're on your hustle. It's a hustle one way or another.
So I have that and said, okay, not to say
that I'm on the streets, you know, you know, with
freaking work and whatever like. That's not what I'm saying.

(20:43):
That's a grind, bro. So I'm gonna talk about that,
but I'm gonna talk about it from a from a
general perspective. Whatever you about, you have to have this mindset.
Little that I realized is that I was actually self
therapratizing myself. I was I was actually talking myself out
of the rut that I was in. And the same

(21:06):
thing with Purple that was keeping me zin because that
many times I wanted to turn up on folks because
I was that I was very I had no filter,
I was very short tempered, like I was snapping off
like in my shows and my my MD be like yo, bro,
like that. It's like, it's not I'm cussing out my fans,
Like this ship is frustrating, Bro. These people don't know
what the fuck they want and I'm giving them what

(21:28):
they're asking for and they're not satisfied. So when did
you start to feel like your fans weren't satisfied with
your output? So again it was again again, it was
a it was a misunderstanding. You know what I'm saying.
When you do stuff long enough, I'm sure that you
know each of we can attest to it, particularly you know,
uh questions. When you do stuff along long enough, stuff

(21:52):
just changes, bro. It just changes. The people that show
up changes, their palette changes, they expectation changes. It just
is what it is, man. And it's people that's in
that crowd that work. They're not today one. They literally
just got here. But that doesn't make them any less
of a supporters of a fan And.

Speaker 5 (22:14):
It was a vivor though.

Speaker 6 (22:15):
That's the ill part about this is looking at it
from the outside end, because you're on the inside of yourself.

Speaker 4 (22:19):
But yeah, that's of an era like that and still
being able to but now when you add to it
that you you personally feel meat it's talking about me now,
when you personally feel that you haven't even gotten started yet,
because everyone to be done was request based and you
were just living up to it because you just wanted
to stay in the game and get to the bread

(22:39):
and you didn't want nobody to not include you because
you didn't want to do that thing. You didn't want
to do that no one else wanted to do, but
you wanted to do it though, because you wanted to
get put on, because you just wanted to feel accepted.

Speaker 6 (22:50):
Can we please talk about these beginning like now I've
got it, we gotta can we get Mere? I know
Mere about to get into it, but the beginnings like watching.

Speaker 2 (22:59):
This, no, this is not this is you know it's
gonna go like this.

Speaker 4 (23:05):
So well, I was gonna ask you, so I remember
the last conversation we had, it was, I mean, this
is a minute ago, but I commended you. And I
was even talking to my wife the other night about
when I told him he was having we were having
you on the show, about how you were always one
of the people that I admired because you were able
to play the major label game you know what I'm saying,

(23:28):
Like you were you know what I mean, just straight
up one hundred percent. And you always one of those
dudes that I admired because I'm like, you know what
music like, he's on the label, and I'm sure he
got his shitty go with, but every album he come
with his jams like he's consistent. He keep a jam
on the radio and even just his radio jam, but
then he still got his album cuts to be hard too.

Speaker 1 (23:50):
So to me, you were an example of someone and
an artist.

Speaker 4 (23:54):
In you know, quotation marks, you know what I'm saying,
that was actually playing the major label game, right, yeah,
you could navigate it. So what when was the point
where it started to turn Like, Okay, I'm playing the game,
but now I'm feeling like this shit is starting to
play me because the other shoe never dropped. And what
was the other shoe me being able to do what

(24:15):
I want so to speak, and not one because you
can do whatever you want whenever you want to do it.
It's it just hits different when you do what you
want and it's being supported.

Speaker 2 (24:25):
Okay, educate me because right now I'm a blank slate.
On the last twenty minutes, of conversation. So break it
down to me like a kindergarten. So when you're in
a creative space, which I would assume, it starts with
the song.

Speaker 1 (24:42):
Okay, I'm just starting.

Speaker 4 (24:43):
It's starting with yeah, yeah, I'm with you, I'm with you.

Speaker 2 (24:46):
Let's start with the song. Who or what was or
who was the inner circle of support? Then that would
metaphorically block down a shot or say nah, I don't
think you should go this direction or do it that way?

(25:07):
Like was it a was it a was it a
circle of producers? Was it whoever your manager was?

Speaker 1 (25:13):
Was it exact?

Speaker 2 (25:15):
Or just like you're doing a show or maybe it's
only seventy percent full? Or like what what? What's the
process that leads you to the beginning of where you're
talking about. You're not being able to express yourself.

Speaker 4 (25:30):
Here's what's interesting. You can't imagine how complex.

Speaker 5 (25:33):
That question is.

Speaker 4 (25:33):
You cannot imagine how complex that question is. And I
will do my very best to be PC. No, fuck PC,
thank you, thank you, tell you truth. I'm not trying
to be PC. I'm trying. I'm trying. I'm trying to
not be long winded.

Speaker 1 (25:52):
Have you met that wind? Questions will you best love when.

Speaker 4 (26:04):
You just want a blamers, go ahead and say, I'm
gonna say this, get your stick about me. I have
lecture esque answers go in. So all right, yours said.

(26:25):
I can say whatever I want, Hey, whatever I want.
I can say whatever I want, say whatever you want,
whatever you want. So to answer your question, we have
to start from the beginning.

Speaker 1 (26:36):
Yes, let's do it.

Speaker 5 (26:38):
Thank you what I wanted you to do.

Speaker 4 (26:39):
Please, I like, I like how excited y'all are due yo,
because some of us.

Speaker 5 (26:45):
Know a little bit of your story. So I'm like,
this is.

Speaker 1 (26:47):
This is that we are? We're in the pandemic.

Speaker 4 (26:50):
Of course you would because you were actually part of
my story. So yeah, I'm here. I mean, no, the
one above are well to me? It's no.

Speaker 5 (27:04):
Oh ship all right, I hope it's a good part.

Speaker 4 (27:07):
But you always thought it the good part. What do
you make it's a good part too?

Speaker 5 (27:13):
I know.

Speaker 4 (27:14):
The only one that was the bad part was was
was anyway? It wasn't even bad.

Speaker 5 (27:21):
We're making it better. So that's that's a new day.

Speaker 4 (27:23):
It wasn't even bad. That's the thing. It wasn't even bad.
So let's start from the beginning. I'm gonna get I
promise you it's it's it's relevant. Just let me start
from the beginning. So my home life was ship. You

(27:44):
know what I'm saying. I didn't get along with my
parents at all for a lot of reasons. That's very
unnecessary to get into at this point in time. But
we didn't see at all. I didn't understand how detached
we were at the time. It was just instinctive, like
I just was like, I need to get the fuck
out of this house. Here. Are you an only child?

(28:06):
You have siblings or anything? Oh no, I'm the oldest
of nine.

Speaker 1 (28:10):
Oh wow.

Speaker 4 (28:10):
Okay, yeah, so there's a whole dynamic with that that
I'm like, these ain't my kids. So we're not gonna
get into that.

Speaker 5 (28:20):
Okay.

Speaker 4 (28:21):
I brought that up to say that I willfully left
the crib, which left me with nothing. So you have
to understand I've been sheltered most of my life.

Speaker 1 (28:30):
Okay.

Speaker 4 (28:31):
There was a cult element that's associated with that. Again,
unnecessary right now. So I didn't want to be associated
with nothing that came from that space at all. But
at the same time, I didn't have the luxury of
building a relationship with anyone outside of my immediate life.

(28:52):
You know what I'm saying, Like, for instance, you know
you said the thing about the thing with the words,
the collegiate word that you used or whatever. There was
no way of me knowing that because I never got
to college. I never even feelished high school, went to
UNI for one year, didn't even pass freshman year.

Speaker 5 (29:08):
That's freshman year.

Speaker 4 (29:10):
Yeah, and it's because I didn't do the work because
I thought school was dumb. But you know, disenfranchised community, poverty,
marginalized education. Ou da da da da da da da.
So I'm like, okay, well what do I do with
the rest of my life? My stepdad said, well, you're
not going to just be at the crib. I'm gonna
put you to work. Here comes in fifty second in

(29:30):
the market. So I'm learning about life in traffic commerce.
You know what I'm saying. That was the beginning of
the hustle. So then fast forward, you know, I started
making a little bread. You know, I'm working fast food joints.
You know, somebody you know did me a solid a
week before my eighteenth birthday, gave me a gig. Was

(29:52):
like teching me, I'm not supposed to hid in seventeen
year olds. But you know you're about to be eighteen
in a week or so. You know the process that's
gonna take the process here, you might as well start today.
I'm not gonna tell on who that was because you know, well,
the business not even up anymore, so it doesn't even
matter again, irrelevant. So I started working. I made that
point to say, I started making money. I started making money.
I started moving around. I started moving around. I start

(30:15):
going to places. One of my favorite places was sixty
ninth Street. I used to go to sixty ninth Street
to go watch movies at United Artists Movie Theater. Whenever
that my movie didn't start yet, I would go to
the Coconuts record store right next door to it, which
is where I met my manager. Okay, still, well, I
didn't want my manager at the time, and I met

(30:38):
and I met him through the people that were working there.
You know what I'm saying, because you know, we would
go over I would go over there, and because they
were working at a store, a music store, I you know,
was obviously into music, and we would just you know,
shoot the shit a buy music. You know, people that
came out, what you think about this and what you
think about that. Yo, this group is cool. And it's
around the time Brian McKnight was popping One twelve was popping.

(31:00):
They did that that whole era. You know, I'm saying
ninety year. I'm just saying, just to place the time. Okay,
that's all I'm doing. You know what I'm saying. Oh
you mean like no, no, no, no.

Speaker 5 (31:11):
Okay, because you not say beautiful thing.

Speaker 4 (31:13):
I got you. Okay. Yeah, so you know we're talking.
We're talking. Then they collectively said, yo, you should meet
our manager. The manager of the store. He was moving
around because he managed multiple stores. I forget what his
actual title was, but he was in and out basically
because the one of the dudes that was there was
actually the manager of the store, but he was the
manager of that region I guess, you know, the multiple

(31:36):
stores of the whatever. So so then he's like, okay, cool.
So I finally meet him, and then he's like, okay, cool,
you need to meet my partner who was working for
Universal I think at the time. And they, I guess
both of them collectively decided, you know, you gotta understand,

(31:56):
like I'm I'm speculating because I wasn't part of those
kinds conversation. But if you put it together, like obviously,
this is what happened. They talked, said, Yo, we got
a situation where we can help this dude out here
it is and enter a Touch of Jazz Studios. I
started working at a Touch of Jazz Studios. You know
what I'm saying. Actually, I came in as a background

(32:18):
singer on a song for for another group who was
a duo. I will say yes, I will say their name, yeah,
because I got nothing beloved for them.

Speaker 2 (32:30):
Girls.

Speaker 4 (32:30):
Man, I got nothing beloved for them girls. Bro to
this day, we haven't talked and connected in a while,
but I have nothing beloved them. Cool, that's what's up.
And I need to find a way to reconnect with them.

Speaker 5 (32:43):
But can you extinguish this this rumor? So were you homeless?

Speaker 4 (32:48):
Are not?

Speaker 5 (32:48):
At the time?

Speaker 4 (32:49):
So when I the part when I said I left the.

Speaker 5 (32:51):
Crib, yeah, yeah, okay, so you were home, I.

Speaker 4 (32:53):
Was definitely homeless, well homeless by technicality being of no home. However,
you know, dependent on the kindness of nomadic. I was nomadic.
I'm saying that from now on.

Speaker 5 (33:08):
That's why I don't feel bad because he didn't go
to college either.

Speaker 1 (33:10):
I don't.

Speaker 5 (33:11):
He's used the word no.

Speaker 4 (33:12):
No, I don't feel bad about it. I don't feel
bad about it. I just think that it's an important
piece of detail to help understand who you know. Yeah,
and I think that a lot of people don't take
into consideration. Put in their defense, I don't really like
talk about it like that either, you know what I'm saying.
So it's very easy for people to perceive me as, oh,
you're that guy. He's like, no, I'm actually a person,

(33:35):
you know.

Speaker 2 (33:35):
But I apologize that it's okay you No at Black
Lily always knew he is the pizza.

Speaker 4 (33:40):
Guy, I know, which is one of the jobs that
I had so good so as it was so eloquently
written in his uh, just.

Speaker 1 (33:55):
Like that, it was just like.

Speaker 4 (33:58):
All so, but but so before we continue, you have
no idea the navigation that I had to do to
show up to those events. What do you example exactly?

Speaker 1 (34:11):
What not to not go there?

Speaker 2 (34:15):
Oh no, no, no.

Speaker 1 (34:17):
I used to it was my crib.

Speaker 2 (34:19):
Yeah, I'd be calling police doing all right, can I
get these people out of my own?

Speaker 1 (34:27):
I mean, now that everything worked out, I'll.

Speaker 4 (34:29):
Be like, yeah, department shows up, yo, beat and yo,
I call the cops.

Speaker 1 (34:37):
I'm like, Yo, get these s thugs out of my crib.

Speaker 4 (34:39):
Now there were some real ones, bro, the burning beats
out on my rug. There was there were some real ones, bro.
You know what I'm saying. So I'm gonna get back
to the you know, the timeline. But just at the time,
you know, you have you have black Lily, you had
Willem meanings, you have worse and sounds. You know, he

(35:01):
had multiple other offshoots and whatever. And I would here's
how my day would go. Okay, So I would be
at whatever job at the time. It could have been
burger king McDonald's, Boston Market, the piece of joint, you
know what I'm saying, which ras should comment saw me there?

(35:22):
Because I saw him about to get in the cabin.
I ran. I was like, yo, comment he saw me,
he saw me standing outside. I don't think he made connection.
I did, and I was like, yo, he was you know,
hit me with the you know, I was like, okay,
sore he saw me still doing that? That was yo.
That day was lit. I was like, that made my day.
He's a home you know what I'm saying. And whenever
I would get discoveraged of like whether what will whatever

(35:43):
happened for me, you know what I'm saying. Stuff like
that would happen, and I'd be like, oh, okay, so
I must be on the right track if he's part
of my day. Okay, cool. Anyway, So I would work
a job in whatever bread that I would get or
whatever I would have to but I would have to
wait till the weekend because I had a homegirl that

(36:04):
I was rolling with that would get tips because she
would work at the Hardshell Cafe. I don't know where
it inspired with the hard Rock Cafe now downtown. I
don't know what it's called market. Yeah, they used to
call it the hard Shell Cafe and they used to
sell seafood and stuff, and she would get tips every day.
This is around the time when when I Lost Ones
came out, and I remember because I was like, yo, girl,

(36:25):
you gotta listen. Yo, you got to listen to this
record because she was come to doing this whole poet thing.
I was like, dude, you got to listen to this record.
You know, it's funny how money changed she went. I
was like, yo, this is a genius. All these Asians.
I didn't know it was so many Asians you know
what I'm saying. Anyway, she would make tips every day

(36:46):
and if she could get like fifty dollars that day,
she could work up fifty dollars that day. We would both,
you know, bust down on a room because she ain't
had nowhere to stay. Oh wow, say somewhere in the
downtown there we would pick one which everyone had a
vacancy because at the time, I don't know if it's
like that now, there were places that would sell off
rooms for at night, not down okay. So and it

(37:08):
got kind of sketchy because you know, it's a very
interesting name, so you know what I'm saying. But you know,
but she was about that life. But you know, I
had to use whatever because I was a very resourceful dude,
and we was cool. So she got a room and
you know, and I would be like you good, you said, okay, cool,

(37:29):
I'm about to run down to the to the me.
And this was like weekly. You know what I'm saying.
I wouldn't tell nobody that I was, you know, huh nomadic,
but I would just show up. You know what I'm saying, people,
Oh there you go where you bet? I'm like, not nothing,
I'm here. Now let's go. You know what I'm saying, Oh,
fire and ice at Willhelminas, you know with with uh
uh uh Jeff Bradshaw. You know what I'm saying, old

(37:51):
boy with the trumpet. No, Jafar, Yeah, Jafar played trumpet
and and uh and uh Jeff played the trombone. Shouts
out to them. So that that was I was just
saying that to say, like my daily life in trying
to show up to all of those spaces. You know
what I'm saying, what's interesting. But anyway, that's part of
the timeline as well. So fast forward to me recording

(38:13):
all through ninety eight, right, I'm recording all of these songs,
none of these songs.

Speaker 1 (38:17):
Whoa, whoa, whoa.

Speaker 2 (38:18):
You can't fast forward because what was the moment from
this everyday existence of finding a place to live and
all those things to finding your voice? Yeah, finding a
voice and singing.

Speaker 4 (38:32):
And I'm trying to answer that question.

Speaker 1 (38:35):
All right, My bad, My bad, Okay, Okay, No, he's
in ninety eight. Okay, God wow.

Speaker 4 (38:40):
I'm trying to I'm trying to answer the question. This
is the things that a lot of people do. They
try to rationalize the timeline when I when I tell
it to them, because they're like, this doesn't make any sense,
and I'm telling you it doesn't, but it happened. Okay, Okay,
So I haven't recorded in the studio prior to them.

Speaker 1 (39:00):
Okay.

Speaker 4 (39:00):
It was this one time somebody introduced me to their
dad crib and he had a console in his living
room and the closet was the booth. You know what
I'm saying that we did like one song that I
cannot ever remember with that song.

Speaker 6 (39:13):
But you had sang before? That's the question I think
a mirror was trying to say, like you had known what.

Speaker 5 (39:17):
You can sing.

Speaker 4 (39:18):
I've always sang what do you mean my whole life?
My whole life? I remember, for instance, okay, let's go back.
I remember I went to Heston Elementary and our graduation
song was Man in the Mirror. They have a person
that was supposed to sing the lead. He wasn't singing
it right. I kept correcting him, like, no, it doesn't
go like that. You got to sing it like this.

(39:39):
And my teacher was like, you're the one that I
always could sing. But I thought that there was something
that everybody could do. You could ride a bike, I
can ride a bike. Yeah, you could ride a bike.
I climbate tree. You can climbate tree. I could backflip.
You could backflip. I could sing. You could sing. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (40:00):
I didn't.

Speaker 4 (40:00):
I didn't. I didn't understand. I didn't. I didn't understand
that it didn't quite work like that.

Speaker 5 (40:04):
When you figure that out, when you figured ou out,
it didn't work like.

Speaker 4 (40:06):
When people when people when you hurt it back like
I guess, I guess we all we are all not
the same, you know what I'm saying. And I was
always supportive, like yeah, you know, no, just keep going.
I'm sure you know, I know, you know. And then

(40:29):
I started getting with different squads and crews that would
go to you know, creative and performing arts schools. You know.
I would hang out with the church kids cause I
wasn't raised in the church, you know what I'm saying,
But I hung around a lot of church kids, the
p ks. They would tell me about the experiences. I'd
be like, wow, that's interesting, like won't you just leave?
And it's like, it doesn't. It doesn't, it doesn't, it doesn't.

(40:50):
It doesn't work like that. It doesn't it doesn't work
like that, because you know, I'm like, I left. You
know what I'm saying. You know, it don't work like that.
So I learned how to sing through being around singers,
being around musicians, Like I would go to jazz clubs.
You know what I'm saying. This is around the time
where I met Balaud. You know what I'm saying. I
will go to the Fun. Fact I wanted to be

(41:11):
in the group and somebody suggested Blaud and somebody gave
me his phone number and I called him. He cold
call him, yeah, and I was like, ask him about
it if he remembers. And I was like, you know, hey,
you know, what's up is music? And he asked me
one of the most obscure questions ever, something like I'm paraphrasing,

(41:34):
you would have to ask him for the details. But
it hit me. I was on the phone like the
Fun and it was something like who was the first
person that to call music music?

Speaker 8 (41:50):
I was like, yeah, how is you coming at me
like this like from a grouper?

Speaker 4 (42:03):
No? You know, And he would help Daz so you know,
later on, you know, we eventually started to get to
know each other. He invited me to his crib. I
would have invited him to mind if I had one.
But I met his mom, I met his brother. I
think I met his brother. No, it was I ain't

(42:23):
meet his brother at the time. No, I didn't. I
thought it was his brother. But it was just a
dude that he went to school with that played trumpet
or trombone or whatever. And so I met his crib
and he was like he sat down. He was like, Okay,
go ahead, sing something. I was like, uh, I didn't

(42:47):
know that this was an audition but or whatever. So
I'm like okay, uh. And and this is the time
where I had a whole lot of hair, but you know,
I didn't like have it like whatever. So I just
you know, we have a whole lot of hair, you
just stuff it in a hat, you know what I'm saying.

(43:07):
He was like, take take your head off. I was like,
the fuck is this nick? Fuck? You know what the hell?

Speaker 7 (43:18):
My hat gotta be being on. Gotta do with the
way that that sound, bro. And It's like I never
thought about this since then until just now. So you know,
I'm like, okay, whatever, I take my head off.

Speaker 4 (43:32):
So now I'm awkward and uncomfortable because I have, you know,
insecurity issues and self esteem issues. Because I come from
a fucked up, non nurturing, neglectful background. But he doesn't
know that I'm triggering in trauma, traumatized. But you know,
I want this dude to be part of my group.
So I'm gonna do whatever he say. Plus I'm in
his house. His mom's is cool. I'm I'm I'm gonna

(43:52):
take my hat off, you know what I'm saying. He
all like, and plus you know, he looked like a
super like, clean cut jazz guy, you know. So I'm like,
I'm not gonna disrespect his dude in his own home.

Speaker 6 (44:03):
Bro.

Speaker 4 (44:03):
So okay. So I think I sung up Brian McKnight
song or whatever, and I think his reaction was like, okay,
all right, And I think he made reference to the
fact that I did a whole bunch of runs and
stuff or whatever, and that was that. And then I
probably saw him like maybe like once or twice since
then or whatever. But not too long after that, I

(44:28):
heard I was looking for him and somebody was like, yo,
he moved to New York. You know what I'm saying.
I'm like, damn, Like, so now you know, I ain't
never got my chance to like put the group together.
Or whatever, so that kind of the next time I
saw him, the dude have full ahead of locks. You
know what I'm saying. He was looking like a nomad,
you know what I'm saying, Totally different than how I
met him, you know what I'm saying. And you know,

(44:50):
he's just he looked way more relaxed, you know what
I'm saying. I was like, Oh, that dude probably found
his shit. You think about me, okay, But.

Speaker 2 (44:59):
One question, Uh, the group that you were trying to
form in your mind, what what was the level group
you were trying to performs like modern R and B
group like I didn't know.

Speaker 4 (45:11):
Well, obviously that because that's what I was inspired by,
But ultimately it would have been something in the realm
of hip hop soul, you know what I'm saying. And
I wanted all three of us to be independently dope.
I didn't want it to be a thing where all
three of us, you know, one of us was dope
and then the other carrying the other two kind of situation. No,
this is nobody if that's your dynamic in your group,
you know what I'm saying, situation. But I was heavily

(45:33):
inspired by one twelve because to me, they were all leads,
you know what I'm saying. So I was like, it
would be dope to be in a group where all
but I'm not gonna do four people, but you can't
do just two, so let's do three. That's a nice, cool,
easy number, you know what I'm saying. So nobody could
direct me to, nobody that was interested or even you know,
able to, but some everybody kept saying, yo, blive bliah

(45:56):
blah balah, blah blah blah, and I'm like, okay, cool,
you know what I'm saying. It's just like ninety six,
ninety seven something like that.

Speaker 6 (46:03):
I'm so glad that didn't happen. You don't even as
a fan, you don't even understand. We got so much
more music. Y'all be in the park.

Speaker 5 (46:09):
Thank you.

Speaker 4 (46:10):
Yeah, you know what I'm saying, which is why I'm
grateful that to happen. So again, me seeing him coming
back from from New York, because apparently he was going
to university for that, go to school for that, I
was like, Damn, I probably should have stayed in school
because if I stayed in school, I probably would have
been I probably would have had a better chance at
being better educated in music and out of that, I

(46:33):
was supposed to go to Overbrook, but because where I
was living, I wasn't eligible to go to Overbrooks, so
they sent me to, you know, this other school. So
I'm sure if I would have went to Overbrook, h
then I would have I probably would have kept up
with it.

Speaker 2 (46:48):
Overbrook is Will Smith's sorry, just explained to our listeners
right now.

Speaker 5 (46:54):
Yeah, we were at a touch of jazz and we
didn't even get there.

Speaker 4 (46:59):
Yeah, yeah, we we We're coming back to that.

Speaker 5 (47:01):
Okay.

Speaker 4 (47:02):
So while I'm being a nomad so to speak, I'm
I'm I'm I'm finding myself in all of these weird
spaces of you know, feeling inadequate, not feeling good enough,
not knowing what I'm doing, not having the support, not
having nobody to guide me, help me, teach me, you
know what I'm saying. But at the same time, I'm

(47:23):
constantly being inspired by everybody around me. You know what
I'm saying. There's blood, there's jail, there's there's there's now,
there's flower tree. You know what I'm saying, all the
way from freaking Europe. You know what I'm saying, Uh,
there's there's the Jaguar right Kindred the family. So there's
you know what I'm saying, Glenn Lewis from Canada, There's there's,

(47:45):
there's there's you guys. You know what I'm saying. Like
I've been I've been on you guys since since ninety three,
ninety four, you know what I'm saying, Like, like, what
is nobody is saying? Who is these people? You know
what I'm saying? And this is when I was really
getting into hip hop because I never really got into
hip hop because I never could completely identify with the
with the aggression, you know what I'm saying, conversation right, No,

(48:11):
But it's like the reason why, the reason why is
because I get that every day, Like I don't want
to hear that in music that I'm trying to like,
you know, you're trying. So when so when you know
I'm hearing you know, reek over real live drums, I'm like,
this is amazing. I've never heard this before. I mean,

(48:35):
yeah it was tried, Yeah, there was daylight. Yeah, but
we talk about Philly now like and they right down
the street, like this hits different, you know what I'm saying. So,
and that's around the time where I got up with
my with my dad's family out fifty fifth and Populace.
I was going through it, bro, like I was, that's

(48:56):
a whole nother story. It is like my whole life.
And he decided to tell me today, Okay, you're in.

Speaker 5 (49:05):
The book, in a book. It's gonna be a book.

Speaker 4 (49:07):
There's a book you need.

Speaker 1 (49:08):
There's a book.

Speaker 5 (49:09):
Book, write a book.

Speaker 1 (49:11):
You're gonna have to your life one day.

Speaker 5 (49:15):
No, no, what are you saying?

Speaker 6 (49:16):
Right?

Speaker 5 (49:17):
It was a shot okay because you because.

Speaker 4 (49:19):
Like it would have to series. It would have to
be a series, bro, And I just ain't got that
kind of time right now. Maybe later, at some point,
you know, if the universe allows it, it'll happen. You're
just gonna tell me, okay. So all of this, in
all of these compromising, unstable spaces, I'm still looking for

(49:42):
who who am? I? So I begin recording still having
found that out, Which is why I said this request
based because back to Touch of Jazz, I got called
in as a you know, to sing background, and ultimately
started recording songs because the person that I was working
with was like, yo, you're a open uh we should
do something about that. So now and who was that

(50:06):
you were working? Was it a producer? It was it
was the engineer at the time, you know what I'm saying,
because he would get the off hours, you know what
I'm saying. So he would get the off hours and
he could do whatever you want. You locked up, you
know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (50:19):
And who was that? Whoe was that?

Speaker 4 (50:21):
Carvin Hagen's his name is got you and he was like, yo,
I gotta I got a producer. You know who got beats?
You know what I'm saying. If you want to start
working on some ship, you know what I'm saying, then
you know we can get into that. And so Carvin says,
you know, I have this producer that you got these
beats or whatever. So now by then I'm already back
and forth between Philly and Atlanta. So everybody, you know,

(50:42):
I don't understand, like I didn't just decide Atlanta, you know,
out of a pick of a hat, like I already
have a relationship with the city, you know what I'm saying.
So when it came time to think about where am
I going to go, well, I know people in Atlanta,
and let me just start there. So that's how that
move was that place was decided. If it was l
A would have been la for which would have been Chicago.

(51:02):
If it was New York, it would have been New York.

Speaker 1 (51:04):
But for Atlanta.

Speaker 4 (51:08):
Yeah, okay, yeah, I haven't. That's why. That's why I
said that, you know what I'm saying. So you know,
Pop would be asking, you know, why Atlanta because I
got people in Atlanta, you know. And I'm bringing it
up to say I was back and forth and I
would take Greyhound because I've never known before. Yeah, I know,
I know, I understand. How how how how how infinitely

(51:30):
dangerous that trip was. I couldn't ever imagined, you know
what I'm saying.

Speaker 5 (51:36):
And it takes the bus like more than tuesdays.

Speaker 4 (51:39):
And the time that I was going was I had
to go, and I had to go in the peak
hours because you know, I had no bread, so I
had to go. I would leave at night and I
would get to Atlanta in the morning.

Speaker 2 (51:51):
Oh yeah, is it called a red eye on a bus?

Speaker 1 (51:57):
Well? Then, so you and Maka moves to Georgia even
when making Mama Mama, I want to sing, I just
want to say.

Speaker 5 (52:12):
That was a play.

Speaker 1 (52:16):
I just want to sing.

Speaker 4 (52:17):
Sorry, yeah, exactly exactly, and it's a funny uh reason
reasoning behind that the name that name I just want
to say, but it's not really that funny. Uh, it's
interesting anyway.

Speaker 1 (52:29):
Let that deep.

Speaker 4 (52:31):
So, yes, I'm back and forth. I'm saying that to
say because the recording process of what ultimately became, I
just want to sing what's during me commuting back and forth,
you know what I'm saying between Philly and Atlanta, because
I'm trying to figure my life out. I don't know
where to stay. Like you know, it's the one time
I was doing the open mic you know, situation and

(52:53):
there was some some college kids that was kind of
like running the situation and I was there and they
were They was like, Yo, so what you about to
do now? And I'm I'm like, man, I don't know, bro,
just trying to figure out where I'm living, you know
what I'm saying, Just trying to figure that out. They're like,
what what you mean? Figure out where you're living? Oh? Yeah,
I don't have no place to stay, So you know,
I'm just I got to figure it out because I
had was I had just was living with somebody and

(53:13):
his mom was paying his rent. But then she was like, Yo,
this is your last month, so you can come live
with me, but your friend, all your little friends, they're
gonna have to like figure that out, you know what
I'm saying. So he hit me with that, and I
was like, wow, Now here's what's interesting. They lived on
forty fourth and Pine.

Speaker 1 (53:33):
I know where that is my neighborhood.

Speaker 4 (53:35):
Cool exactly College area, blah blah blah. Yeah, the people
that I did the open mic with, they lived on
forty fifth and what was that old sage? I think, well,
what was it? It? Sage? It was? It was what's
the next block over from Pine?

Speaker 1 (53:50):
Locus Locus? Spruce?

Speaker 4 (53:53):
No, you're right, Scruce, My bad, my bad, spruce, spruce, Spruce,
forty fifth and Spruce literally on the same block. You
just bust the corner and walk up, and I'm like,
y'all can't live here. I've been living here this whole
year and I never seen y'all what you mean, Like, yeah,
we live right here. Wow. So I essentially didn't have
to move anywhere. I just went around the block. So
it's like a lot of little things like that that's

(54:15):
happened in my life that I'd be like, I don't
know what that is? I didn't. I didn't do that,
you know what I'm saying. And that's where I get
my sense of you know, faith if you will, from
because my spirituality is already it was it was, it
was my sense of spirituality was tainted basically, So God, God,
who and what is that? Now?

Speaker 1 (54:35):
I'm open and over another thing? Were you assuming your Philly?

Speaker 2 (54:40):
It's damn near impossible to live in Philly and not
at least have like twelve like Muslim relatives like deep
in were you? Did you start in a Muslim community
or like a Southern Baptist very much Muslim?

Speaker 4 (54:59):
You got a mus very much Muslim, but not. I
don't think it's the Muslim that people identify with. It
was a different Muslim. Actually, that Muslim had beef with
the Muslims that people identify with.

Speaker 2 (55:10):
I was going to say, the ones that I know
is like Tarik's family, which is more like junior black
manfa you esque.

Speaker 4 (55:16):
Yeah, I wasn't a different.

Speaker 1 (55:21):
What was your what was your set?

Speaker 4 (55:23):
Fam? I really don't want to have that conversation never mind.

Speaker 1 (55:29):
Okay.

Speaker 4 (55:30):
The reason why I don't want to have that conversation
is I know, for a certainty y'all don't have enough
time for that.

Speaker 1 (55:37):
Wow.

Speaker 5 (55:38):
Okay, that's a ill.

Speaker 4 (55:41):
Yeah, I know for a certainty, y'all don't have enough
time for that.

Speaker 1 (55:44):
Okay.

Speaker 4 (55:45):
And because of the cult that I was raised in,
my my perspective of spirituality is literally all over the place,
you know what I'm saying. I had to start hacking
people's sense of spirituality. The reason I'm bringing that up
is because you know, you get lost in this, in
this navigational process of emotions and creativity, being an impath,

(56:06):
and you feel everything, but everybody looks at you like
a weirdough when the things that are real to you
are non existing to everybody else, you know what I'm saying,
and not knowing how to articulate that in a way
that doesn't make you look like somebody you can check
on him, you know what I'm saying. So I'm having
to navigate through that, and you know, I've had to
like reconcile a lot of relationships with people because they

(56:27):
just clearly didn't understand what was happening. And there was
no way that I can make that make sense because
I'm dealing with it. I'm literally in the middle of it.
So I can't help you right now. If you see
something that you can help once you reach in and
pull me out. But as of right now, like this
is just gonna be weird, you know what I'm saying,
until I can find the words and I'll see you
in the traffic and be like Yo at that time
when yeah, yeah that was crazy, right, I didn't mean that,

(56:49):
But what I actually meant was, you know, but you.

Speaker 6 (56:53):
I'm literally going back to like just old conversation and
our interactions and just being like, man, I wish yeah, man, reference, text,
context is everything.

Speaker 4 (57:02):
So here's the context. So I'm working at this uh
this studio off and on, back and forth from Philly
to Atlanta, and I'm literally working on songs that are
just coming up now. For for you know, Carving, they
may have been ideas that, but for me, it's like,
oh so it's cool, Okay, what do what? What can
I do with this? Okay? Uh? Here? Yoh that's dope. Cool.

(57:25):
I'm glad you like that?

Speaker 1 (57:26):
What else you got?

Speaker 4 (57:27):
You know what I'm saying. So when people are like, yo,
your first album, you know, I know, your first album.
How do you feel about having your first album that
wasn't my first album. That was Carvin's first album, that
was my thesis, that was my That's something I was
just working on. You know what I'm saying, Not to
take nothing away from it, but you know, I got
to be mindful of how I talk about it because
people get offended. They're like, my nigger, that shit over

(57:50):
this life, this ner.

Speaker 2 (57:55):
I don't know many artists that hold their first to
the three records, Near and Deer.

Speaker 4 (58:02):
Now, hey watch this? What's this? What if that's your
entire career.

Speaker 5 (58:06):
And I didn't know that.

Speaker 4 (58:10):
That's your entire career.

Speaker 5 (58:15):
Your first three albums?

Speaker 4 (58:18):
No no, no, no, no no. The way that he's just said,
I don't think anybody would. What if you feel that way,
end up feeling that way about everything that you ever
put out?

Speaker 2 (58:29):
Oh shit, that's now I feel you because oftentimes half
television world.

Speaker 4 (58:34):
And pretend like it's the greatest thing ever.

Speaker 6 (58:40):
And also because your album lyrically, these albums lyrically mean
so much to your fans, like and.

Speaker 4 (58:45):
Don't get me wrong, I meant it, but that's me
doing what I did with.

Speaker 5 (58:53):
Yes, thank you for this conversation.

Speaker 4 (58:55):
To this day, the only time that I've ever done
something out of my own mind was my last album,
and feel the Real then feel the real? Don like that.
I was no, no, no, no, no, no, me let me.
He was like, nigga. I'm like, don't get me wrong,

(59:18):
don't get me wrong. I have to say this because
it is true, and I kind of want to like
kind of quell whatever kind of feelings of animosity that
some people may have for me. Right now. With that said,
I wouldn't release or do anything that I don't have
any kind of emotional connection to because then I can't
perform it. Like y'all will sniff that out, like we

(59:38):
don't believe you. You need more people bro do it better,
you know what I'm saying. So I gotta believe it
to some degree. But when you want to talk about
authenticity and being genuine, like I can't fully accept credit.
I gotta give it to the people who also were
a part of it. That's not me. That was the producer,
that's not me. That was me, and the songwriter that's

(59:59):
not me. That was the label that that was the
management's idea. I just went along with it. So when
y'all were giving me mineus As far as playing the game, oh,
it's a fucking game, but no one tells you about
the fallout. The fallout is you have a timeline of
yeah yes, sir, no, sa yes, sir, No sir, yes no,
sa yes sir. And as a grown ass man, that

(01:00:21):
ain't a legacy that you could be proud of. I'm
proud of the positive impact that what I've decided to
do ultimately, of how that ultimately affected people, I'm grateful.
I'm eternally grateful for that. I'm not ever gonna take
that away from people. You know what I'm saying, And
it's actually their reaction that made me have a connection
to it. I have their their relationships with the songs,

(01:00:45):
because on this side, it's hello, traumatic.

Speaker 1 (01:00:48):
God, wow. Oh Now I gotta ask, like, so what
is it?

Speaker 2 (01:00:53):
I haven't finished what I'm saying earlier about the first
three records, like oftentimes, you know, like uh okay, when
I when I convince people that a particular television show
is dope, and usually they'll tell me a man, I
saw the first episode, like the pilot, and I wasn't
feeling it, and I was like, I don't know, most right,

(01:01:17):
and people get into there, I mean very rarely, maybe
like Atlanta and uh the sopranos like they're rarely shows
whose first episode is like that hoigh Ward excellent.

Speaker 1 (01:01:29):
And with albums, yeah, I mean I in my mind,
I just.

Speaker 2 (01:01:33):
Assume that people just have an emotional sentimental connection to
their college years when they first discovered Do you Want More?

Speaker 1 (01:01:44):
Or like, I know, I'm going to live this life.

Speaker 2 (01:01:46):
Where my first four records are going to be the
be all and the end all to certain people. Oh
man odella yo, man thinks all apart, you know, an
occasional phrenology to yo.

Speaker 4 (01:02:00):
Okay, So I'm about to, like, you know, contradict myself
by being that guy.

Speaker 1 (01:02:06):
I'm used to. I'mflying to it now.

Speaker 5 (01:02:10):
Mhm.

Speaker 4 (01:02:10):
When y'all dropped Hot Music, the Hot music me that
that wasn't my song. I'm literally walking things fall apart
was my soundtrack when I first heard that song. If
I had any freaking doubt that I had a life

(01:02:35):
of music ahead of me, that's said. That was my
Superman music. So much so that on my album I
had a song called Ella's Gone. I know that's not
the original, that's not the original beat. The original beat
sounded more like, you know, got a story to tell Biggie,
they sound more like it sounded like that.

Speaker 1 (01:02:57):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 4 (01:02:57):
After I got off tour, really immediately after I got
off tour, because we started doing that song to that,
I said, where we I know, we're in the middle
of mixing. Where we recording that song?

Speaker 5 (01:03:11):
Okay, so your finger is on that album a way, That's.

Speaker 4 (01:03:14):
What I'm saying. Okay, But I had to put myself
in it enough to feel like, Okay, I can promote
this baby.

Speaker 2 (01:03:25):
It's funny because I wasn't at the time when you
were recording this record, because I think, come on, come
on's on that right?

Speaker 4 (01:03:33):
Like I think, so yeah, everyone but means on a song.
Hub is on a whole nother song that I did, right.

Speaker 2 (01:03:39):
I here's the thing Rich never told me about the
ella's going. So we were in we were in Cleveland
and your album and shy Day's album whatever she released
in two thousand.

Speaker 1 (01:03:57):
I forget the name of.

Speaker 4 (01:03:58):
It was Lovers Lovers, Yeah, right, so I remember Lovers
Rock and I just want to see him coming out.

Speaker 2 (01:04:08):
At the same time, I'm on touring Voodoo m HM
and we're in Cleveland.

Speaker 4 (01:04:16):
I'm not going to get into doodle because that's a whole.
That's a whole other conversation, shouts out to the homie.
But we're in Cleveland.

Speaker 2 (01:04:24):
And Joel LeVert pulls up backstage and I'm hearing the
next movement but done in a really different way.

Speaker 1 (01:04:35):
And I go to this car, I'm like, what's that
the CD case? Wait, that's how I first heard that
is so dope, so so.

Speaker 4 (01:04:49):
Because what happened was my managers probably hit Rich up
and probably got the got the green light from from
old board.

Speaker 1 (01:04:55):
You know, you know, I just didn't know about so
I heard was blasting that was with.

Speaker 2 (01:05:03):
Gerald and I to his car like yoah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:05:07):
Yeah, that's that's how I heard the.

Speaker 5 (01:05:09):
Joint circle considering break you off, ye.

Speaker 4 (01:05:14):
Bring dude. I would tell you I was kind of hot.
I was.

Speaker 5 (01:05:19):
I was gonna wanted Gerald Avert to do it that.

Speaker 4 (01:05:23):
It would have been dope. But that's not the point.
That's the one point I had. I had a huge
grievance with y'all.

Speaker 5 (01:05:29):
With the whole your grievous what is it music?

Speaker 1 (01:05:32):
Like I was this is where Mereon finds out that
people over.

Speaker 4 (01:05:41):
So you're good, no, no, all right, music that you
you didn't funk me over? It was. Didn't this ship
start with us?

Speaker 5 (01:05:53):
He was picked last. I shouldn't have been.

Speaker 1 (01:05:55):
The third choice, all right, So check it out. So
check it out.

Speaker 4 (01:05:59):
If I'm about to tell to break you off story
right now, stop doing run DMC poses like I'm giving
you you wanted this thing.

Speaker 2 (01:06:11):
So I will start off this story the same I
started off Jill Scott's You Got Me story for the
record with communication records, not the roots is forte for the.

Speaker 4 (01:06:23):
Record, I'm completely over it, just to let you know.
I'm I was over it after we did the video,
you know what I'm saying. But prior to then, yeah,
I was in my feelings.

Speaker 2 (01:06:34):
All right, so check it. So here here's my side.
Here's my side of what happened. Was okay, So the
story break you off?

Speaker 1 (01:06:43):
Is that? Okay?

Speaker 2 (01:06:46):
Who is the promoter that is, uh the proprietor of
the Kings of Comedy, not Stanley Fan but uh.

Speaker 1 (01:06:57):
Not ol Hayman. But he's in that circle.

Speaker 2 (01:07:01):
He's the he's the executive producer of the Kings of
Comedy movie that Spike shot. God, hang on, Walter is
it Walter Walter is something? Wal I wonder if Walter
is related to stan Leatham. All right, So in two thousand,

(01:07:21):
Walter Latham, comedy promoter who's making billions off the Kings
of Comedy franchise, you know, with Cedric and Steve and everybody. Uh,
he decides that he wants to do well. You know
at the time, I said, oh, it's sort of like
Living Color. He's like, no, this is a black SNL

(01:07:44):
and we were all okay, So we shot a pilot
of a black SNL with like Earthquake like luminaries. I mean,
I'm certain that if I saw the lineup, at least
seven of them be like household names now. But the
only person I knew personally back then was Earthquake. But

(01:08:06):
it was a sketch comedy show, just like SNL. And
we were the SNL band and that's why. Yeah, we
were the SNL band.

Speaker 1 (01:08:17):
And they wanted to have like guests sitting with us,
so they chose music and.

Speaker 4 (01:08:22):
Kik Wyatt Wyatt.

Speaker 2 (01:08:26):
Try, wait, were you backstage when she tried to set
her off from Rique?

Speaker 1 (01:08:29):
Were you backstage with us? Now?

Speaker 2 (01:08:33):
This is like two weeks this is this is two
weeks after.

Speaker 1 (01:08:39):
Do you remember that stabbing?

Speaker 2 (01:08:41):
Yeah, we all did. This was two weeks after drawing
like she fresh out of jail all that stuff. Okay,
So all I remember was all right, So there was
an incident backstage where you know, I wasn't paying attention,

(01:09:02):
but Tariq obviously said something that upset Keky White.

Speaker 4 (01:09:06):
Yeah I wasn't. I wasn't. I wasn't there either, but
I but you know, I right about it.

Speaker 2 (01:09:11):
So all I know was that she took her shoes off,
and she took her ear rings off, and like.

Speaker 1 (01:09:20):
I just remember, Rich had to get in between.

Speaker 2 (01:09:23):
Oh, like she was trying to set her off from
some ship, like gonna talk to me fucking like that,
blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

Speaker 4 (01:09:31):
And she's really about that life back then, Brog, I
don't think it's bad. It might it might still be popping.

Speaker 5 (01:09:39):
It's like later.

Speaker 4 (01:09:40):
I'm just saying, yeah, yeah, yeah, she said it off
all of them kids. Yeah, that's a lot. Dude, shouts up,
same husbands out, shouts out, I don't know, I don't know,
but shouts out, man.

Speaker 5 (01:09:53):
There's a couple, but the numbers are good, they're.

Speaker 4 (01:09:55):
Low, okay, shouts out to her. That's what she and
g for that No real all jokes as that that's
a lot. I come from your family, so that's.

Speaker 1 (01:10:05):
A lot.

Speaker 5 (01:10:07):
Right now.

Speaker 2 (01:10:10):
So the whole point is that, Okay, the old point
is that really not being familiar with this situation and
like having prepared music and all that stuff, we were
just jamming. So uh yeah, five minutes into it, you know,
Kamal was playing some ship and next thing, you know,

(01:10:30):
like the seeds that break you off was sort of
in the air, and.

Speaker 4 (01:10:35):
Because it was, it was a few joints. It was
a few joints you know, your songs, knowing bumps and stuff,
you know, in a commercial and whatever and saying like
like like the fallon gig, y'all been training for that.
You know what I'm saying, I don't understand like since
since then then, So that's why when it came full
circle with the fallon ship, I was like, that.

Speaker 1 (01:10:58):
Makes sense, right.

Speaker 2 (01:10:59):
So the thing was when I think we just made
a break you off, just have an extra song for
an extra bumper. I didn't think about it any further
till after that. So what I didn't know was that
Comal come on, you go in the studio to to
he went, I know, he went in on fire like

(01:11:20):
I'm gonna make this a join and I was just like,
all right, cool, Like I.

Speaker 4 (01:11:26):
I didn't hear about it that it was gonna be
a thing until way after and then I was privy
to all the demos, so check music.

Speaker 1 (01:11:45):
Eleven.

Speaker 4 (01:11:46):
So the deal with music, So you're gonna learn, just
like you're gonna learn, just like with the with the
you Got Me story, So we have the sing.

Speaker 1 (01:12:01):
I mean, you know, it was for me. It was
a cool song just for that space.

Speaker 2 (01:12:05):
I didn't think it was like, oh, we're really going
to do a song called coming to Break You Off?

Speaker 4 (01:12:10):
Like that wasn't even but even in the inception of it,
that wasn't even the what was being said. I was
doing song Marvin Gay, you know, process through the Angelo,
mumbling like I don't even know what I was saying.

Speaker 2 (01:12:26):
Which I think the words coming to Break You Off
was was formed or something like that that I heard, right.

Speaker 1 (01:12:34):
But well, I'm just giving my side of the story, and.

Speaker 4 (01:12:39):
I'm hearing you, bro, I'm listening right.

Speaker 2 (01:12:42):
So after after that, after we shot that pilot, I
wasn't thinking about that song come on, went and shot
a crude demo of it, and then I guess at
that point, I think Rich and I were just like,
all right, so.

Speaker 1 (01:13:01):
Are we going to make this the anti Roots album?
Like let's just let's just.

Speaker 2 (01:13:05):
Do a whole bunch of songs that don't sound like
the Roots and that sort of thing, and Rich was like.

Speaker 1 (01:13:09):
Yeah, that's it.

Speaker 2 (01:13:10):
I was kind of being like bitter, sarcastic, like, oh,
we're doing R and B songs now, and he was
just like, now the ship works.

Speaker 1 (01:13:18):
And so then I was like.

Speaker 2 (01:13:19):
So when I got aboard, I don't know, I know
the first contestant was Alicia.

Speaker 1 (01:13:25):
Wow. I don't know how it came to be.

Speaker 2 (01:13:30):
I know that The Roots and Alicia keyshould do a
song together.

Speaker 4 (01:13:34):
Was she was on the rocket ship at the rocket
ship at the time? Why not?

Speaker 2 (01:13:38):
Well, she and I were friends. She and I have
been friends since when she was on Columbia.

Speaker 1 (01:13:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:13:43):
She was Alicia James, right.

Speaker 1 (01:13:45):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:13:46):
I forgot damn.

Speaker 4 (01:13:47):
Because I had to join on the Riot soundtrack.

Speaker 1 (01:13:49):
No no, no, no, that was what's your name of
the Afro? This is like that thread.

Speaker 4 (01:13:57):
With James.

Speaker 1 (01:14:02):
So Alilah James was.

Speaker 4 (01:14:03):
Alisha James originally, right, right, that's right, that's right.

Speaker 2 (01:14:08):
I met Alicia was when I was tracking most for
Double Trouble. Alisa was next door. That's how first met her.
She was next door at Battery Studios working on her
Columbia debut record, which never came out. She was on
Columbia Records first. Michael Malton, that's a Jermaine DePriest. Father

(01:14:32):
signed her to Columbia like she was fourteen fifteen.

Speaker 5 (01:14:36):
So she shouldn't have been singing coming to breaking.

Speaker 4 (01:14:39):
She knew me way back then. Yeah, I'm thinking like
ninety seven talking about when she was breaking up.

Speaker 2 (01:14:46):
No, no, but I'm saying ninety seven ninety seven. She
was like seventeen eighteen. That's when I first met her
working on a Columbia.

Speaker 5 (01:14:54):
Join to break you off with a little.

Speaker 1 (01:15:00):
Well, I mean, whatever the case was.

Speaker 2 (01:15:02):
She famously stood us up four times like I'm coming,
and then like Steve wakes me up, like I mean
she hear yet, and Steve's like it's four in the morning.

Speaker 1 (01:15:12):
No next time.

Speaker 9 (01:15:17):
So it went from it went from her to blow
that one Jill Scott.

Speaker 2 (01:15:29):
Now do you know that when Jill Scott did it,
she turned into the magic stick. What she wanted to
talk about Jek's man.

Speaker 1 (01:15:42):
Okay, all I know is that Jill's we have Joe
quest love supreme. We are we are on the magic
stick of right. No, no, no, but this is the
thing though.

Speaker 5 (01:15:58):
We're only at four.

Speaker 2 (01:16:00):
She wrote, you kind of wrote the hook that's the
bridge to break you off.

Speaker 5 (01:16:06):
She gonna come get this check, amir, She's gonna come
get this check.

Speaker 2 (01:16:10):
Carmon changed the words, but that what that bridge that
he sang was an idea that Jill had wrote for
break you Off. And then Gerald heard and then I
swear to your music. I was after Lisa had stood
me up the second time because I'm the one that

(01:16:30):
had to wait the studio, Steve can testify me sleep
on the couch and she here yet?

Speaker 1 (01:16:34):
No, she here yet, no calling her.

Speaker 2 (01:16:38):
After that, I was, I was like, fuck this song
like it's not and the Angelo.

Speaker 1 (01:16:43):
I mean, maybe she showed up and I didn't. I
didn't hear the doorbell or something.

Speaker 2 (01:16:47):
No, no, no, she just she just and even what's
her name, Claudette Ortiz. Yes, that's what I never forgive
Steve Stout for. We cleared silent treatment for that that
damn City High song.

Speaker 4 (01:17:02):
What's it called a caramel? That was a good right,
but we cleared it singing that all right back, and
I knew was the song about child abuse. You remember
Caramel What would you do? Yeah? No, there was a

(01:17:27):
traumatizing song, no know, what do we do anyway? So
based doing the Caramel song, I thought that.

Speaker 1 (01:17:42):
Sing on our joint and that didn't happen.

Speaker 2 (01:17:45):
So literally twelve people later, I remember Comal saying, wait
a minute, y'all started with music is getting worse? No, no, no,
come on, said wait a minute, y'all. This started with music.
Why don't we just have music do it? And then
we were all like, oh, yeah, you're right, we forgot.

Speaker 1 (01:18:09):
So it was I just don't want you to.

Speaker 2 (01:18:11):
Think that we were like, damn, that's like he whacked.
Let's not put him on the record. It wasn't even that.

Speaker 4 (01:18:19):
It was just like I didn't even I didn't even
take it like that per se. There might have been
some element of that adjacent to my feelings, you know,
you know what I'm saying, right, but I'm just like
my ego wouldn't allow me to believe it can't be
because they think I'm whack.

Speaker 1 (01:18:36):
Right, It was never that.

Speaker 4 (01:18:37):
It was just like it was like glasses on your forehead,
like you tear the room before glass glass my glass. Yeah, man,
you in your car, you in your car at night
looking for your phone with the flash that on, I
know exactly, like where the is my phone?

Speaker 1 (01:18:52):
So come all? Said, right, right, come all?

Speaker 2 (01:18:55):
Said dude, y'all, y'all going to jump through all these
hoops trying to get people seeming so on, why don't
we just go to music? It felt right, and then
it was like, oh ship, we never thought of that, duh.

Speaker 1 (01:19:08):
And then it happened.

Speaker 4 (01:19:11):
Sad story, bro, that's a sad story. I love you
though through it all. I still love you, man, I
still love I still love you. That's all good. I
never I never, I never, you know, I never let
it interfear like you know, it's a whole lot of stuff,
you know what I'm saying, that I can get into
that I constantly feel slighted, you know what I'm saying

(01:19:32):
by y'all. But I'm sure it has a lot to
do with, you know, miscommunication, lack of communication. Just I
never came up. It might never may have never came up,
you know what I'm saying. It's cool, Yes, our our
years and for years I used to be like, yo,
I rapped so hard for these idiots. They don't never

(01:19:53):
shout me out or look out or nothing that. But
it's like you can't take it that way man, Like
them dudes, they're they're like you.

Speaker 5 (01:20:00):
Shout out nobody shut up.

Speaker 1 (01:20:06):
Anyway anyway.

Speaker 4 (01:20:08):
But I'm just letting you know.

Speaker 2 (01:20:10):
Like you know, well, just just I always do my
communicated once.

Speaker 4 (01:20:18):
It never me I just want I just wanted to
make a point to say that despite all of the
spaces I found myself in, whether here or they're about y'all,
I always find a way to reconnect to you know
what I'm saying. My initial affinity for y'all. You know
what I'm saying, it's bigger than the individual people. You

(01:20:38):
know what I'm saying, y'all represents something so huge that
you can't let your personal feelings for individuals to get
in the way of that. Like I was hot with
Frank for a second, you know what I'm saying, because
when y'all was on voodoo. You know what I'm saying,
I wanted to go say with something d and he
was like, yeah, now he's not seeing no people right now.
I was like, well, can you let me know when
he's seeing people.

Speaker 1 (01:20:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:20:59):
Yeah, I was like, now now this is now. Let
me tell you, I only went to two concerts before
before I Pop. Right it was it was when it
came to Philly. It was DiAngelo and it was Lauren Hill. Right,
that's it, because those are two that was even interested.
And I love Joab, but I'm like, I could see

(01:21:21):
y'all whenever. You know what I'm saying. Might have not
been a cool thing to do, to be so dismissive,
but I'm like, I'm gonna see them, like now we
mad easy son, you know what I'm saying. So I'm
literally after after the Voodoo and they did how to Feel,
everybody walk off. I was like, this is amazing. It's epic,
bah blah blah. So I'm walking back because I'm like,
I literally really know like seventy five percent of everybody

(01:21:41):
on that stage, you know what I'm saying. Let me
just go say what's up?

Speaker 1 (01:21:44):
You know?

Speaker 4 (01:21:45):
And Frank caught me at the door and was like, ooh,
what's something. I'm tapping over the So so it's a prove.
I go back and was like, ah, I don't know,
I don't think he's seeing anybody. Right now. I was like,
but it's me, oh me, but can we don't mean anything?

Speaker 6 (01:22:03):
Can we all agree I'm about to give a compliment
in a backwards way, but can we all agree that
as much as this lighting that you may have felt
from like any any Roots Crew situation, the circle back
is amazing because even if you just think about like
you headline and the Roots Picnic, it's just always it's
always a circle back. So I just to their credit,
you know what I mean?

Speaker 4 (01:22:21):
Yeah, well you know that's all a little slightly triggering.
So I did it because I needed well back on
my own. You have to understand something I did the
Roots Picnic or the earlier what I decided to do
when before COVID pre COVID, which is why I was
grateful that it came back around and I was thought of,
which is why I met. I met them like, thanks
for thinking of me, because y'all could have been like,

(01:22:42):
you know what I'm saying, I don't know. So I
did that for me because I needed to get past that.
What I needed to get past was was Thepelle Ship.

Speaker 5 (01:22:53):
What the fuck.

Speaker 4 (01:22:55):
Here? Exactly? Oh my god, that exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:22:58):
I didn't put that together.

Speaker 4 (01:23:00):
I'm not I'm not coming you. I was literally right with.

Speaker 1 (01:23:08):
The Chippell party and also that photo.

Speaker 4 (01:23:11):
Okay, aquarium, let's not even get into you're in it. Okay,
all right, it's okay, it's okay. This is what I'm saying. Okay,
I need to get past it. So every opportunity that
comes up with me explain the context of just the

(01:23:32):
ancillary events. But I'm constantly being I'm sure that you
probably don't even know about.

Speaker 1 (01:23:38):
I don't know about, and I don't organize all.

Speaker 4 (01:23:39):
Of these things. It's okay, it's okay, But in my mind,
because I don't know the inner dynamics of y'all situation,
I think I'm doing this for the light.

Speaker 1 (01:23:50):
Damn.

Speaker 5 (01:23:50):
You gotta communicate, man, this could have cut this ten
years ago.

Speaker 4 (01:23:55):
So I did the I did the Roots picnic because
I needed to get over my own issues surrounding y'all,
because I didn't want to have no issues. But I
didn't know how to interact with any of y'all like that.
You know what I'm saying. Yeah, there's the ways I
can get folks number, but I'm not gonna cold call
nobody like you know. It's cool, it's no beef. It's
not an on site situation. But I'm not going to
act like we interact all like that. Either you know

(01:24:17):
what I'm saying, you understand what you understand? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:24:21):
What what?

Speaker 2 (01:24:21):
I'm slowly realizing No, And this is the first time
like i've I've heard that. Even this week cosmic keV
was like, I feel a certain way, y' ask me
nothing certain.

Speaker 5 (01:24:35):
Way, don't.

Speaker 1 (01:24:36):
I'm sorry, No, no, no, old boy what's his name? Uh?
While I was partner.

Speaker 2 (01:24:43):
Gilly also the same thing, which no, it's it's never
like we're never like, let's not ask them. A lot
of times it's either like finances or a lot of
these things we do is by the skin of our
teeth or a.

Speaker 4 (01:24:58):
Favor for favor, Like I keep saying, so.

Speaker 1 (01:25:01):
We love everyone is so not not.

Speaker 4 (01:25:05):
I don't want to keep making it a point to
say that I love you, man. This is why. It's
because I'm not saying it just to be saying it
like I have, because that's something that I have to
know and feel in myself. That's the only reason why
I did the failin situation. I wouldn't have did that
shit because I'm like, for what they never asked me
to do nothing for what But I was like, nah,

(01:25:26):
it's the roots, like they're on an elass platform. You
know what I'm saying, And stop acting like you don't
want to be a part of that.

Speaker 5 (01:25:34):
That's a lot of our stories. I just need you
to know this.

Speaker 4 (01:25:36):
Like it's so No, it's cool, it's cool.

Speaker 5 (01:25:38):
But yeah, even even even I.

Speaker 4 (01:25:41):
Don't, I'm not gonna be in people's faces talking right now.
Unbeknownst to y'all, I'm in a very weird emotional, psychological
and emotional space. It's to the point where I got
to tell my my my, my publicist family, you might
want to chill on the interviews because I'm spilling my
guts too much, bro, And don't nobody want keep hearing this, Like,
let me deal with my stuff, man, Like, let me

(01:26:03):
get into a better place so that I can be
the person that people are kind of sort of looking for.

Speaker 6 (01:26:09):
You know what I'm saying, call when he send it
to you, because if that's the case, if you try
to be progressive and be better, then I don't want
to hear that black man.

Speaker 5 (01:26:17):
Whatever. I don't want to hear that black man.

Speaker 4 (01:26:19):
What's what's progressive?

Speaker 5 (01:26:21):
Progressive. You do what I'm at.

Speaker 4 (01:26:23):
I met.

Speaker 5 (01:26:24):
I'm just saying, don't be all black man nineteen eighties,
Like I don't do.

Speaker 2 (01:26:26):
That before it serves a nine hour conversation. How have
you been adjusting? How have you been how have you
been adjusting to life pre COVID Like for a lot
of us, this is the first extended break that we've

(01:26:51):
ever gotten.

Speaker 1 (01:26:54):
And a chance to recap and reconnect with our families.
And like I've been.

Speaker 4 (01:26:58):
Saying, which is which is? Which is? What has like
uh instigated at least for me to get into the
minutes of my timeline, which I still haven't finished because
I'm literally still at the beginning. Yeah, keep going, Yeah,
We're still at the beginning. You know what I'm saying.
But I'm making a point to say that is all
of these all of this baggage. I can't run away

(01:27:20):
from unpacking now. I used to be able to hide
behind working. I don't have the luxury of doing that anymore.
It meets me when I wake up, it's there. Even
when I go to sleep, I wake up in pain,
like physical muscle pain, because I know that in my sleep, I'm.

Speaker 5 (01:27:38):
Like hell a trigger and you tense because you got.

Speaker 4 (01:27:44):
Yeah, Man, my jaws be hurting because I know I
clinch at night. I know that. You know what I'm saying, Like,
I know because I have a lot of unpacked shit,
man that I'm dealing with, like and then I have
new ship comes to me, Like I'm dealing with a
whole situation that I don't even talk about. You know

(01:28:07):
what I'm saying. It's people don't know. And I know
they're like, wait, now is it gonna say anything? Is
gonna Is he gonna say anything? You know, it's a
personal situation concerning personal situation. Okay, Okay, you know what
I'm saying that this person whole it's a whole person
that's on a whole different wave that I can't even

(01:28:29):
understand right now, you know, and I'm trying to manage that.
You know what I'm saying, What the fuck.

Speaker 5 (01:28:35):
Is the last thing that made you smile? Like, what's
what's bringing joy in your life?

Speaker 4 (01:28:40):
I mean, my son does it? You know what I'm saying.
I'm grateful for him. He has little things that he
do in moments that I have with him. You know
what I'm saying that be like you funny bro, You
know but like it's I said it to one of
my brothers, well my only brother that I really fool
with like that, Like it's so fun to be a
part of a tension oh shit moment and be like

(01:29:04):
I love you, little homie, Like I actually love you, dude.
I'm a clean this up, but I love you, you know
what I'm saying, rather than what the book you know,
Like that's fun. I love being a part of that,
you know what I'm saying. Emotionally nurturing this dude, Like
I love that, Like that that brings me joy.

Speaker 5 (01:29:23):
Being something that you didn't have, right, Like you know
that you didn't have.

Speaker 4 (01:29:27):
Yeah, man, So to answer your question like immediately, the
short answer is you know things like that, you know
what I'm saying, but trying to like go back to
the story. So a touch of jazz, so you know
I'm already you know, I know, I know the story.
You know, touch of jazz, jazzy, Jeff Fresh friends out

(01:29:48):
of that, you know what I'm saying, Like I didn't
sit the kool aid, bought the kool aid, bought the recipe,
tried my own version of it, you know what I'm saying,
Like I'm all the way in, but my relationship never
actually gets a stabis. I see him every now and again.
It's all love. Actually. Funny enough, it was because of
Jazzy Jeff that I was introduced to Dylan, So that's

(01:30:09):
a whole nother right. I still speak to T three.
By the way, Me and T three are a group
called trace on ninety eight. We put a song out
call Once upon a Time. You might want to go
check that out anyway. Yeah, yeah, tray so t R
A s o U L ninety eight. T R A
s o U L ninety eight. So back to touch
of Jet. So me and Carbon working on joints. We

(01:30:30):
come up with just friends, we come up with seventeen,
we come up with Girl next Door. Funny enough, Jill
Scott actually wrote the girl part on on Girl next Door.

Speaker 5 (01:30:39):
Oh yeah, yeah, okay.

Speaker 4 (01:30:42):
But I don't know what the details went into her actually.

Speaker 5 (01:30:44):
Being she didn't get that money.

Speaker 4 (01:30:45):
She didn't get that money, oh okay, And we've never
talked about it since, you know what I'm saying. But
she actually wrote that part.

Speaker 1 (01:30:53):
Oh shit, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 4 (01:30:55):
But that's another story. There's a lot of strong man
stories that that I can get into, but I want
to stay focused. I'm working on all of these songs,
and in my mind, I'm not thinking, yeah, this is
gonna be my album. I'm like, oh, these are some
cool songs that I could play for people to show
them what I can do. So here it is December
of ninety nine. I'm in Georgia, and these my managers

(01:31:20):
at the time, it's like, yo, where you at. We
got gotta be in New York, you know what I'm
saying tomorrow or the next day or whatever the day was.
And I was like, for what And it was like,
because we got a deal on the table for you.
I was like, wow, what you mean what does that mean?

Speaker 5 (01:31:35):
Oh God, you didn't know nothing, Like I'm.

Speaker 4 (01:31:37):
Fresh off the streets, like I don't. There's no conversation
of deals, you know, there's no conversation of you know,
we're shopping you to this place in that place. If
there were, like I don't remember right right, you know,
And they definitely weren't extensive. They were you know, we're
gonna play something for these people or whatever if that was.

(01:31:59):
But I'm I'm so not dialed then I'm just recording. Yeah,
And they're like, wait, a minute, where are you? I'm like,
I'm in Atlanta? What you mean? Why are you out there? Like? See,
this is how much we don't like.

Speaker 5 (01:32:12):
Community communicate all of us.

Speaker 4 (01:32:16):
Yes, y'all just expected me to just be damn around
Like well, it doesn't help that the fact that I
was always around the point is, you know, if y'all
was more invested in a nigga personal life, you know,
we wouldn't get so.

Speaker 5 (01:32:33):
Confused right now, No nigga, you're a worker.

Speaker 4 (01:32:36):
So they're like, well, we need no nah fam, we
need we gotta get back out. And I'm like, okay,
well you know if you could, you know, you know,
throw need some bread so I can get a get
a greyhound ticket. I'll be there, you know, you know
tomorrow sometimes like greyhound, Like what do you mean greyhound?
Nah man? We need we need you back, like now,
like we get you a plane ticket. Plane Nah, bro,

(01:32:56):
I'm not getting on a plane. That's not that's not happening.
That's not happening. I'm not I'm not doing that. You're
what's the shut up and fish? All right? Yes?

Speaker 5 (01:33:07):
Sorry I finished, that's whole sales.

Speaker 4 (01:33:10):
I'm sorry, thank you. Anyway, before I really interrupted, I
love you like I love you too.

Speaker 1 (01:33:22):
Oh wow, oh wow, I'm in love with you.

Speaker 5 (01:33:25):
Okay, that's pause.

Speaker 4 (01:33:26):
That's not different at all.

Speaker 1 (01:33:28):
No, I don't know why I was so good. I
don't know why it would be creepy so awkwards. That
was so.

Speaker 5 (01:33:40):
Like, you don't know, not creepy as in.

Speaker 4 (01:33:42):
The lecturous way, just creepy as in a way you're
just going to hijack our moment right now. That is fun.
It's about me now, Okay, it's all love, bro. So
I'm like, no, I'm not getting on no plane like
I know Greyhound. I know that we're gonna do the
bus route. We're not getting on a plane. It was like,

(01:34:05):
you gotta be kidding me, dude. I'm like yeah, no.
And I thought I was, you know, I had I
ain't had no leverage. I thought I was negotiating. I
was negotiating because I came anyway like you. It's not
like you wasn't gonna come like right. So, And I
was in a mood because I had just cut my
lots off because I couldn't get a job in Georgia

(01:34:26):
with my lots for whatever weird reason, I don't know, Maybe.

Speaker 5 (01:34:30):
With I don't know it's because of Raco.

Speaker 4 (01:34:32):
I'm already I'm already in a mood. I'm in a
whole mood, you know what I'm saying. And then I
lost my job two weeks later, Like wow, okay, yeah,
this sucks. Life pretty much sucks. Yeah, And and I'm like,
I'm not having to deal with the fact that, you know,
even though I'm in Georgia, I still don't have a
good relationship with my parents, you know what I'm saying.

(01:34:54):
So that was still sucking with me. I don't know
my brother's and sistans. Yeah I know them physically know them,
but I don't. I don't know that, and you know
what I'm saying. And there's a whole lot of them
weirdness that was going on at the time. But so
I was like, you know what, whatever, I'm literally not
doing anything else with my life. I'm getting up another
get it again. I'm living off of this. So this

(01:35:15):
is dude. The h was selling rooms for like fifty
dollars a week. I was like, well, that's a come
up in fifty dollars a night, you know what I'm saying.
So cool, I'll take this, But no plumbing, no no window.
It was literally just a space. It was the coming
to a complex basicly. Yeah, So like you know what

(01:35:36):
I'm saying. But I got at least I had the
luxury of living by myself, you know, and to live
on top of nobody progress. So I thought I had
a little independence, you know what I'm saying. And that
was at the time where I was. I think, I was, No,
I was, I was, I was. Where was I working?

Speaker 5 (01:35:51):
You're still working?

Speaker 4 (01:35:53):
I don't know. I forgot where. I've been worked at
so many places, bro, you're still working. No, no, no, no,
This is right at the time where yeh, So I
found my way back to Philly, you know what I'm saying.
And the dudes that I told you that I met
at the open mic situation that let me stay at
their crib because it was right around the corner. Now
what it was was it was a bunch of college

(01:36:13):
kids that lived in this really expensive three story, four
of the canter basement house that I'm assuming their parents
paid for. And it was like, you know, you could
just stay here for free, just pick up picker room.
It doesn't matter, like picker room. And I was like, bruh,
this is dope, you know what I'm saying. They always
had food in the fridge. It wasn't that deep. But

(01:36:34):
you know, I didn't go hungry. You know, if they
felt inclined to, they would throw me a couple of dollars,
you know what I'm saying. And it was cool, you
know what I'm saying. And I started doing music with
a couple of them, but we kind of like went
in a different direction. I actually did a whole project
with a whole bunch of stuff on it, and I
got one of them on it. I did like a
Fayla inspired song and I got you know, I got

(01:36:56):
them on it, you know what I'm saying. But that
project never came out because when I ran it by
the label, it didn't sound like music job. So you know,
it was a whole proj I might need to relive
it. It was called Universal.

Speaker 1 (01:37:05):
Where is it now?

Speaker 4 (01:37:06):
That's just somewhere. I gotta find it. It's sill on
CD somewhere. I did a song with Frank McComb is
pretty cool, and on it I did a song I
did a song with with I did a song with
Lil John. It was like a punk rock punk punk,
black punk afro punk kind of song or whatever. That's
pretty cool.

Speaker 6 (01:37:25):
John Roberts, Okay, yeah, I'm glad you was right because
the other would have been a problem.

Speaker 4 (01:37:35):
Yeah, little John Roberts. You know, I did a record
with him. I was supposed to do a song with Rick.

Speaker 5 (01:37:41):
But you know, oh Lord, you just called Lord.

Speaker 4 (01:37:44):
Okay, No, I'm not saying this to just call people out.
I'm telling you about my timeline. These are the things that.

Speaker 5 (01:37:50):
So this is still before you signed the deal.

Speaker 4 (01:37:53):
No, this is afterwards. I just brought that up to say.
You know what I'm saying. These people that I lived with,
you know, I tried to, you know, bring them up
with me, but you know, opportunities just never like came
to fruition. So now I'm back in Philly and i'm
living I'm just staying with one of my managersers. I
didn't have nowhere to stay, but I knew that I
could stay with these guys if I can get in

(01:38:14):
contact with But he was like, Noah, stay with me tonight.
So I didn't know where you are right now, We're
going to all go to New York together, you know
what I'm saying. So that was the first time ever No,
I didn't get on the plane. Then I got on
the plane when I had to do the show up
to the premiere of The Nutty Professor too, because I
was on the soundtrack in LA. That's when I showed up.

(01:38:35):
That's when I actually took a plane. You know what
I'm saying, freak.

Speaker 5 (01:38:37):
You out because that's a five hour Yeah, there really was.

Speaker 4 (01:38:41):
It really, it really did freak me out, you know
what I'm saying at the premiere. And at the premiere
I ran into biblical thoughts while she was eating. I
was so starstruking. I wanted the picture. She was like, sir,
I'm eating. I was likepoint left. Sorry, she was cute anyway.

(01:39:01):
I know I'm like going off on tangents, but this
is you know, yeah, so but New York. So I'm
sitting in front of Kevin Lows. That's so with a
fresh haircut. Well it's not not. It was a fresh haircut.
It was just freshly cut. Okay. I didn't have time

(01:39:23):
to get a cut up. So I'm wolfing. I don't
have no coat.

Speaker 2 (01:39:28):
That's how I know you from Philly.

Speaker 4 (01:39:33):
So I got to borrow my manager's coat, who was
what six six and telling stories.

Speaker 5 (01:39:45):
Okay, yes you're figuring it out.

Speaker 4 (01:39:46):
But let's I'm in this big bubble coat, this big
brown bubble coat. I think it was fat Farm. I
don't know. And I'm sitting there, you know, red Man
is sitting on the table. I'm talking to this dude
I never met before, ever heard of, Kevin Lewles because
I'm thinking because when I asked him on the phone,
I was They was like, yeah, we got a deal
for you on the table. I was like deal, what
you mean? Like what does that mean? No, we got

(01:40:07):
we signed your record deal. I was like, well, who
with depth? Jam? Give me like with Russell Simmons in them.
They was like, no, man, Russell Simmons is not over
depth jamm. And I was like, I don't know. I
just you said depth Jam Russell Simmons, It's all I know.
He was like, nah, it's just dude, that Kevin Lews.
I was like, oh, like Kevin lows Like. I was like, damn,
I don't hear the bell, bro. Sorry, it was a virgin.

(01:40:29):
People don't understand how a virgin how like not knowing
that I was, you know what I'm saying, super agreed.
I was vegan damn anyway, not technically, but anyway, so
you get it. So I'm in I'm in Kevin Law's
office and they're talking to me about all of this stuff.

(01:40:51):
That's like, bruh, I have no idea what any of
you are talking about. Right now, here's what I proposed.
Since you like to work so much, won't you give
me the break and let me go back in the
studio and work on what I want to work on. No, Nah,
these songs are great, bro, These songs are great. You
should put these out. I don't want to put these
out because these don't represent how I feel about presenting

(01:41:13):
myself as mind you music. Soul Child wasn't even the name.

Speaker 5 (01:41:18):
What is it?

Speaker 4 (01:41:19):
People knew me as music? Technically it is, but people
knew me as music. But if I but I told myself,
if I ever became a thing, I would call myself.
Soul Child got because I represented the thing that I
was trying to do. But I got the No, bro, like,
people already know you as music, so why would you
do No nobody know me, but.

Speaker 1 (01:41:42):
You got the compromise.

Speaker 5 (01:41:43):
You got the compromise.

Speaker 4 (01:41:45):
So I said, you know what, how about we do this?
How about we put it together. We got music soul
chouts like it's like bust rhymes. You know, it's like
a try call question the whole thing, you know what
I'm saying. So they was like, cool, fuck it whatever,
you know what I'm saying, as long as we get
the music. I was like, okay, that's why they were
was a discrepancy around like my second album, because I
was like, I don't feel authentic with this name, like

(01:42:08):
it would be different. No no, no, no, no no no,
it will be different if I was actually living up
to the name. But I don't feel like I'm living
up to the name. So until I do, I don't
think that is it's it's authentic, you know what I'm saying.
For me to call myself the full name, let me
focus on it because, as it turns out, y'all have

(01:42:28):
been running this show. Music is y'all's thing. Somehow along
the line broken telephone, everybody got the word you better
not call them soul child. So people will be like,
so is it music? Is it? Like why y'all keep
asking me this question? No, because we keep getting told.
You know what I'm saying, like, you know we better
enough because you would get mad or some shit, some weird.
I'm like, dude, whoa, oh, y'all doing way too much.

(01:42:51):
And that's why after the third album, I was like,
you know what, let me help y'all out. Let's bring
it back to me because apparently I can't get around it. Okay, cool,
let's go back to music. Soul Child. But then even
more confusion, you know what I'm saying, because they couldn't
deny that they were basically being browbeaten by I don't know,

(01:43:12):
the death Jangoons to you know, fall in line and
now mind you. I'm not a part of none of this,
but I gotta get in front of it. Though again communication,
no one's talking to me about any what you want?

Speaker 1 (01:43:30):
Right?

Speaker 4 (01:43:31):
And then they got moved over to Atlantic and they
kept going. So when I tell people in twenty what fifteen,
I haven't even gotten started yet, They're like, what are
you talking about? You're like, ain't you you?

Speaker 5 (01:43:48):
They don't know.

Speaker 4 (01:43:50):
How can I communicate that to the How can I
make this make sense to people? It's gonna have fifteen years.

Speaker 5 (01:43:55):
I'm gonna have to ask Deanna, like, a, you.

Speaker 4 (01:44:01):
Know, it's been fifteen years and I still feel like
I haven't. I haven't done me yet. You didn't feel
like feel the real was doing you. That's in that's
in seventeen.

Speaker 1 (01:44:14):
Oh yeah, oh you you're talking about But to.

Speaker 4 (01:44:16):
Answer your question, but you answer your question, yes, but
before we got signed, but before you got to that then,
But even then, that was me doing me with things
that probably wouldn't have seen the light of day. So
you think of it, think of feel the rails like
a like a lost tapes, so to speaks. Now it's
just lost tape. That's what that feels like to me,

(01:44:37):
because that wasn't me going in the studio and actually
working on things from the ground up. That was like
stuff that I had around that I thought was doper
than anything. Like a lot of those songs are like
ten years old, wow almost you know what I'm saying,
or at least the concepts of it. I just pulled
back from the vault. You know what I'm sayingybe not
ten years old. Maybe that's putting extras on it, you

(01:44:59):
know what I'm saying. But I'm like way older than Yeah,
you know what I'm saying. What life on Earth was different?
Because that was all Warren Campbell. Literally every song is
Warren Campbell. Now there is a song on there that
is like about ten years old. It's called Alive and well,
you know what I'm saying that I did way way

(01:45:20):
way back. Fiel the Real actually played one of the
songs and for Benefits. I played that for all for Knife. Okay,
I played Benefits for Knife and Knife was like, Yo,
so what we doing? Like we're trying to sign the
Jamler Like I'm like, like, it's not that simple. Like
I have a engagement with a whole other company that

(01:45:41):
I have a contract with. I love you that right now.
We can have a conversation later. You know what I'm saying.
That's why Rap is on it. You know what I'm saying,
because I give him for Rap because I'm like, yo,
I need Rap on my ship, like I need her,
you know what I'm saying. So, yeah, that's why she's

(01:46:01):
on the on the on the Life on Earth. Yeah, no,
she's on the She's on a joint called far Gone
uh on Life on Earth. You know what I'm saying.
That's how she got on here. But and I actually
wanted to do a whole project with Rap, you know
what I'm saying. But I think you know, you know,

(01:46:22):
the communication got got broke down. You know what I'm saying.
We got a whole talk about it, you know what
I'm saying, at least me and him, Me and Rap
didn't really talk about it. I told her that it
was something that I wanted to do, but we didn't
really like discussed disgusted it, but I disgusted it with
him like yo, and the whole ship could be produced
by all Jambler producers, like I don't care, Like I
wouldn't go right now. You know what I'm saying. You
know you got you got Jones, you got Crisis, you

(01:46:45):
got you know, you know what I'm saying, You got
all these people that does mad good ship. You know
what I'm saying. You got you you know, let's go.
But you know, it just never happened. So hopefully, you know,
a music and rhapsody produced by you know, all GAM
producers might happen. Might not. I don't know that would
be dope.

Speaker 5 (01:47:04):
But you just getting started so ship like yeah, you.

Speaker 4 (01:47:07):
Know what I'm saying, It got so bad. I literally
just started starting up groups with everybody. That's why me
and two three are a group. You know what I'm saying,
because I was like, I need to start doing me now,
you know what I'm saying, and I want to work
with everybody. I actually was talking. I don't know how
realistic it is, but I was talking to Robert. I
was like, yo, I think me bellowing Jazzman need to
be a group and you should produce the whole thing.

Speaker 6 (01:47:27):
She's aloud and I talked to Jazz about it.

Speaker 4 (01:47:31):
She was like, you did you? Did you talk to Blon?
It was like, right, no, I didn't. Actually now I
don't have his number and I have no way of
contacting him. You know what I'm saying. I used to
you know what I'm saying, But he would just you.

Speaker 5 (01:47:42):
Know, it's so funny.

Speaker 4 (01:47:44):
Because you know, stop taking my calls after a while.
I don't know why, but I don't know. People just different.
People just move. I guess, you know whatever. I just so,
I just stopped. I just stopped calling.

Speaker 1 (01:47:55):
You know, isn't called social media, right.

Speaker 4 (01:48:00):
Oh you have to you're under the impression that I
frequent those.

Speaker 5 (01:48:05):
I don't at all A new phone number.

Speaker 1 (01:48:08):
One's number. I just DMS.

Speaker 4 (01:48:10):
Yeah, I don't even I don't DM. I don't ain't
gonna be no music versus probably not.

Speaker 5 (01:48:17):
I'm literally enjoy it anyway.

Speaker 4 (01:48:19):
I literally literally literally yes, that would sugar fest for me.

Speaker 5 (01:48:24):
You're so right.

Speaker 4 (01:48:25):
I'm so sorry that would be a versus you would be.

Speaker 1 (01:48:29):
I figure be quite the opposite.

Speaker 4 (01:48:32):
Then somebody needs to be represented on my behalf because
I'll just be there like well, my question is is.

Speaker 1 (01:48:42):
There a part of you?

Speaker 4 (01:48:43):
Is there a part of you even in the midst
of you know, feeling like you know when you talk
about not being able to really represent yourself and kind
of what those early records represent, is there a part
of you that does feel like you did in many
ways get the last laugh because of everyone that, yeah,
nigga like because in the midst of that soul carrying photo,

(01:49:07):
you're the one that had the most like chart success,
the most long don't even think about that.

Speaker 5 (01:49:16):
Because of it, because of the check, because they don't even.

Speaker 4 (01:49:18):
Think about winning. You gotta understand, I don't see if
I want, I don't even see the win. Guess why
I don't see the.

Speaker 5 (01:49:27):
On But you're not working at the piece of spot.

Speaker 4 (01:49:31):
Perception. It's everybody loves citing my timeline to me like
I'm not me, like I get it. I get it.

Speaker 5 (01:49:40):
That's not that people's way. I'm trying to make sense.

Speaker 4 (01:49:43):
No, no, And like I always say, people always try
to rationalize it, you know what I'm saying, because they
don't want to contend with the reality that everything that
I've done up until now is was per request. So
even if the fact that it was successful doesn't mean
anything to you, it's like, no, no, no, it was us.
But which But if you want me to be all

(01:50:03):
up at arms about how great I did, I didn't
do great. It was a collective effort, you know what
I'm saying, And it was, but it was it was.
It was a collective effort, but it was It was
essentially under the rest, you know what I'm saying. Not
that nobody was putting a gun in my head, but

(01:50:23):
I didn't really have any other opportunities. So my best bet.
There was a whole span between my third and my
fourth album that I was on the phone with members
of the label and they were trying to explain to me,
like Sam, if you don't move in this direction, it
could very well be over for you. Yeah, And I
had to sit with that.

Speaker 2 (01:50:41):
Like it's not good with Lee or or Julie or
any of that.

Speaker 4 (01:50:46):
Oh, I ain't got no beef with le Or and
Julie like that. I never really dealt with them directly, Yeah, okay,
in passing. I would see them in passing and it
was all up. Like I have literally truly no beef
with either one. I don't have a relationship with them,
more so with Julie than lee Ark. But even then
it's like it's touch and go, Like I don't you

(01:51:09):
know what I'm saying. It was. It was I went
to work, you know those doors we work together, you
know what I'm saying. My relationship was directly with Kevin Lyles,
and even sometimes not even with him. It was on
at the behead stuff Kevin Lyles, you know what I'm saying. Right, So, yeah, Like,

(01:51:31):
and it's hard, And that's why I don't talk about
it because I know how much it undermines people's relationship
with my music and the expectations they have of what
they gonna get. So I try. I do my best
to live up to it. But when you start getting
older and you start looking yourself in the mirror after
you just did you know, some shucking and driving, you
don't feel good on the inside. So yeah, even though

(01:51:53):
I can account for the successes and I'm eternally grateful
for the blessings that came from it, because I wouldn't
even have an name of credibility or way to provide
for myself and loved ones. That's not lost on me
at all. It doesn't take away the real reality though,
that my time Bruh is with hell wow.

Speaker 1 (01:52:11):
So let me ask, how would you explain.

Speaker 2 (01:52:17):
Your twenty year experience as far as your creative output,
your your actual albums, your art. How do you explain
that to your son? How do you break it down
to him? How do you present it to him?

Speaker 4 (01:52:31):
He doesn't care. That's the that's the that's how I
get off. He doesn't care. He doesn't even know what's
the thing, but he will. It's not part of his day.

Speaker 1 (01:52:40):
He literally has no clue that you're this music icon.

Speaker 4 (01:52:45):
Has He literally not just me, his mom.

Speaker 5 (01:52:48):
I was about to say his mom too.

Speaker 4 (01:52:49):
You don't know he gets it. He gets an honest
both ways, and he literally has no clue. He isn't
even like a singing to him. He gets emotional. Wow
Lively starts crying. Yeah, yeah, yeah, crazy, I mean, but
you know he has his challenges. You know, he's not
he's not really good at communicating his emotions and his thoughts.

(01:53:11):
Like that's a challenge. So we don't know whether that's
a police stop or please don't know what's going on,
like you know, so we're still we're still managing that,
you know what I'm saying. But I don't take it
away like I actually preferred that he doesn't know, so that,
you know, all he sees is Daddy, That's all he sees.
You know, I don't want to better. You know what
I'm saying. I better, you know what I'm saying, because

(01:53:32):
I want I want him to like dude.

Speaker 2 (01:53:34):
See see often the QLs family will do this to
me because I hate the idea of roses or taking
roses or accepting compliments or uh.

Speaker 4 (01:53:51):
But I mean, let me just say, you know, okay,
were about to get super you know, I wasn't.

Speaker 1 (01:53:59):
In it is now he's.

Speaker 5 (01:54:04):
That it doesn't matter.

Speaker 6 (01:54:05):
Take a paw ta take this good ship music right now.
Don't make me call you by your government. Take this
good ship go ahead of mirror.

Speaker 1 (01:54:14):
No dog, I'm just saying that you have done.

Speaker 2 (01:54:19):
A great service. You have, Dude, you you've made at
the definitive. You made a definitive wedding song.

Speaker 4 (01:54:29):
That's hard not a wedding song. It's not a wedding song,
no matter what. Wait wait, wait, which one are you
talking to? I've been at least to wedding really do
the two.

Speaker 1 (01:54:42):
I've been to ten weddings where love is the new
you and I you know how?

Speaker 4 (01:54:48):
No, No, it's an emo song? You know emo? That
song is?

Speaker 1 (01:54:52):
Oh? Wait? Is this another reasons?

Speaker 4 (01:54:56):
An inside joke with earthwinder Fire reason not being the
song that black people mean it for. But I didn't
know that and funny enough and that you brought that up.
I actually remade that song with Warren Campbell. It's pretty lick.
You want to go check it out. So, man, speaking
of Warren camp So you talk about, you know, songs
not representing you, please tell me is until one of

(01:55:19):
the songs that represents Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:55:20):
I got the.

Speaker 4 (01:55:21):
Pleasure of perform the radio station in l A A
K K J L H by Stevie Wonder and Stokely
Williams called in and was like brodition. That was what
like a freaking highlight okay, and that's why I was produced.

(01:55:45):
That was produced by Warren Campbell with a gap band
really Charlie Wilson sample in it, and I'm also referencing
Marvin Gay like I can't make that up. No, I
love that song Ago and the resident DJ. I can't
make that up, bro, Like that was a highlight of

(01:56:06):
my life. And then Stephen decides to get on the
Keys Live on Radio, has to get on radio Live
Live on Radio and place Keys. You're like egging me
to sing love, you know what I'm saying, Like like
Stevie is literally the God, like literally for me, you
know what I'm saying. So just to wrap up the

(01:56:30):
question that you asked me.

Speaker 1 (01:56:31):
I asked I'm trying to give you a compliment, but.

Speaker 4 (01:56:35):
The previous question, the previous question, the previous question, you
know what I'm saying. And also to sew up a
lot of loose ends for Tiger because he keeps asking
me certain things and I'm not. I'm not. He's like, Okay,
at least tell me blah blah. Yeah. So when but
that's when it changed. It changed with Life on Earth.

(01:56:57):
But even still it was a Warren Campbell production. Yeah,
you know what I'm saying. I loved it and we
kind of had our falling out in the process. We
since made up. I called him, was like, bro, I'm
not gonna walk around with shitting in my chest for you.
I'm letting it go. We cool. You know what I'm saying,
because it wasn't even him, it was ancillary individuals in

(01:57:22):
the midst well an individual so we're not even gonna
get into that. But I love that project. And that
was when I was like, That's when I was really
definitively like I'm done. That's why my first single I Do.
I went to that and he thank you. I went
to LA and he was like, yo, I got this
joint I want you to be. I was like, dude,

(01:57:42):
I'm not even feel I don't even feel like. He's like, dude,
just get in there and sing whatever you want to sing, Like,
just do you. So the first thing that came out
of my mouth was sometimes I don't like you. You
always got a problem with anything that I do. I
don't know, always understand everything about you. And I was like,
better shu up, but I know, I just live with

(01:58:03):
that out here. Clean it up. I do, I do,
I do? I do? And you know, and then I
fell out of it. Again. But then I ran into
this dude named Jay Reil from Atlanta and we did
five records together on Field the Real. You know that
dude literally brought me out and we're a group called
Denham Road. So yasha about that, damn.

Speaker 1 (01:58:27):
Sugar Steven.

Speaker 4 (01:58:31):
I'm literally legit in three functioning groups right now. It's
Denham Rolls with j Rell. He's my producer that we
work together, did five records on Field the Real. It's
Loonie Trice, you know what I'm saying with two guys
from Atlanta, one from Alabama, and you know it's actually
more it's like a singer's version of a of a
trip called quest type situation I'm trying to do. We
put two singles out called Same Way and in p

(01:58:53):
d A. PDA is actually pretty fresh. You might want
to go check out PDA And it's Loomy Trice, l
U and my t R I CE and and I'm
in a group with uh uh with T three Yes
Trace ninety eight. We got a song called one one
More Time, I mean once once upon a time, you
know what I'm saying. And that's that's the ones that

(01:59:14):
are functioning. There's other ones that I'm still waiting on somebody,
you like, pick it up and help me, because I
can't do it by myself if we're in a group.
You know what I'm saying. But I don't want to
pressure nobody to like, you get to it whenever you
get to it, you know what I'm saying. But in
the meantime, so fast forward to today, the most on
brand music soul child project I've ever done. M It's

(01:59:41):
called Do It for Dilla The Soul Brothers Series, Volume one. Okay,
it's available. It's available on bank Camp. I literally took
Villa beats and I did remakes of Donny Hathaway, Stevie Wonder,
Michael Jackson, Marvin Gay, and Prince. That is the most
on the brand music so thing that I've ever done

(02:00:02):
in my entire career because it's literally me going back
to where it started from for me, because I got lost.
I couldn't see the road no more. So something in
my head said, dude, just start from the beginning. Why
are you even doing this? Dude? Like what got you
into what made you want to do this was because
you know, I'm listening to all of these people that
I felt like was super dope, and they helped me

(02:00:23):
learn how to find my voice in music, so let
me honor them. And then I've always been trying to
like you, remember I mayor, I've been trying to do
this diller thing I did. Ah. He actually sent me
a chop up of dancing machine and I did a
record over and I played it for you because we
were supposed to work on some stuff, but that got weird.

Speaker 2 (02:00:40):
You played you the first supposed to work on some
stuff and it got weird.

Speaker 4 (02:00:45):
No no, no, no, no no no no to work go
yeah yeah yeah, but me and my mayor was supposed
to work on stuff, but I moved and we lost communication.
And you know they're they're the roots and he's show.

Speaker 5 (02:00:59):
Plus you need some things from him right now.

Speaker 1 (02:01:01):
So we're gonna like this compliment so I can wrap up.

Speaker 2 (02:01:05):
God, God, damn it, thank you to wrap it up, though, brouh.

Speaker 1 (02:01:13):
I appreciate your artistry. I love you, brother. These aren't empty,
meaningless brown nowsy.

Speaker 5 (02:01:21):
Words, platitudes.

Speaker 1 (02:01:22):
I'm sorry, but you are.

Speaker 2 (02:01:24):
Yes, you are appreciated. No seriously, man, yeah for real,
And sometimes we just forget to tell each other. Hey man,
we are for real.

Speaker 1 (02:01:33):
You just forget.

Speaker 4 (02:01:34):
That's that's the crime, and that's how I forget taking away.
It is what it is.

Speaker 6 (02:01:40):
But understand, nobody else's voice could have sang those songs
and made us feel the way we feel, regardless of
whose pen exactly.

Speaker 4 (02:01:46):
Okay, now there we go. No, I'm just saying I
just in honor of that. I just want to be
more authentic. That's why I'm always we welcome that do me.
You know what I'm saying. I'm tired of doing other
people stuff. Thank you for throwing me the ball. I
get it, but I want I want to. I want to.

(02:02:07):
I want to feel like, did you feel did you
believe that her the record with you and ad Keys.

Speaker 1 (02:02:14):
Was that you?

Speaker 4 (02:02:14):
Do you feel like that was you? Because that's another
one of my favorite in there stuck in there. Yeah,
because because I wasn't confident that the label would have
allowed it to have its own I d You know
what I'm saying. The only reason why they let me
do the whole bloud thing was because Blave was a
blild thing, you know what I'm saying. And plus it

(02:02:36):
was epic. That's why I intro the song the way
that I did, like I don't care if anybody agreed
with me. This is a monumental epic moment, me and
this dude on the same song Eat it is. I
don't understand how huge this is.

Speaker 5 (02:02:48):
We got it, We got it, we we got it.
We've been watching we fans don't do that.

Speaker 2 (02:02:54):
No for real jokes aside, man, We we love you, man,
we appreciate you, and we well we we will do.
I will do better personally to stay in cont because
I'm also I'm mister hermit.

Speaker 1 (02:03:07):
No, it's not what it is.

Speaker 2 (02:03:08):
It's it's the change that can be for real, for real.
Thank you all right, so on behalf of quest Love Supreme.
Uh fon Tigelo uh unpaid Bill went up in.

Speaker 1 (02:03:19):
The rapture maybe and Sugar Steve and music, thank you
very much for joining us. My name is quest Love.
We will see you on the next go round. West
Love Supreme is a production of iHeart Radio.

Speaker 2 (02:03:38):
For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.