April 12, 2023 • 11 mins
Financial educator Berna Anat--author of the new book Money Out Loud—tells how she went from confusion and shame about money to taking control of her finances. Among her tips: Budgeting is a powerful and empowering tool, one that can make you CEO of your life--and even help you change the world.
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hi, I'm Kim Azzarelli. Welcome to this brand new season
of Seneca's Conversations. In this season, we're launching a special
five part series on young woman's financial wellness in partnership
with Secret Deodorant. It's called Secret Money Tips. We recently
hosted the Young Woman's Financial Wellness Form at the New
York Stock Exchange in partnership with Secret, renowned financial experts
(00:23):
gave young women their best advice about budgeting, saving, and
investing financial empowerment one oh one. Now we're bringing that
advice to every young woman through this series. I'm happy
to welcome Berna Annatt, a financial educator who calls herself
the financial hype Woman. Berna is also the author of
a new book coming out this month called Money Out Loud. Berna,
(00:45):
it is so great to have you on the show.
Thank you so much for having me. Kim, tell us
briefly about your money journey. What was your relationship to
money growing up? I would say my relationship to money
growing up was a lot like my relationship to anything taboo,
sort of like it's there, but we don't look directly
at it. It's sort of like just the like kind
(01:05):
of gross chair in the corner that mom hasn't gotten
rid of or something. It's there. It's kind of festering,
but we don't acknowledge it. I grew up as a
Filipino American daughter of immigrants, first gen. Both of my
parents are from the Philippines, and this is very common
in Filipino American families that we don't talk about money directly.
We definitely don't talk about our money problems to anybody
(01:27):
outside the family. We don't talk about it inside the
family either, And so witnessing my family go through some
struggles we were lower middle income, knowing that we had
problems paying our mortgage, knowing that we've eventually filed for
bankruptcy and got caught up in the two thousand and
eight housing crisis, all of these things were happening, but
there were no conversations about money. It was just like
(01:47):
implicit shame, that feeling of tension. So growing up, it
was a lot of silence, a lot of shame, and
also a lot of behaviors with money that didn't make
sense for what was happening in my home. Some purchasing
things that it felt like to me we couldn't afford
or flexing about our money in front of other family
or friends when I knew we were struggling. So it
(02:09):
was confusing. The word I would use is confusing. And
after you started working, how did your relationship with money change?
Or did it change? My relationship with money, I think
didn't even really start until I started to examine it,
which was five or six years ago when I started
working as a team. To me, money was this thing
that it was almost like when you're holding a feather
(02:30):
in your hands and it just blows in and out
like it's there for a second and then gone with
the wind basically, and that's the nature of money. Money
to me also was this tool that I could use
to get what I wanted. But I did not understand
that when you're using a tool like debt, you got
to pay that back, and paying it back is not
as easy as some of these institutions will sell to you.
(02:53):
For example, you know, getting my very first credit card.
I won't say the name of the bank, but they
did have a table on our campus in college and
they were offering free sweaters, and so I was like,
I've never had a credit card before. Great, what's this about?
APR and interest don't care. I want a sweater and
I got a free sweater. I got a free That's
really what I wanted was a sweater. And then you're
telling me it's a five hundred dollars credit limit. I
(03:15):
get five hundred dollars to do whatever I want. Yay.
That on top of the eventually forty thousand dollars a
student loan debt that I accrued. I got to my
mid twenties and I was like, oh my gosh, I've
really dug myself into a hole, because at that point
I had like twelve thousand dollars of credit card debt,
and so my relationship with money was again carrying lots
(03:38):
of shame, never talking about it. And it really only
started to change when I got into personal finance, And
it changed the most when I started to share my
journey about getting out of debt, because I just learned
so much about the fact that we're sharing this shame.
A lot of us have the same issues, the same
sort of negative voices in our minds, and that's when
things started to really change. So what was the one
(03:59):
big takeaway? What did you learn about money from those
younger experiences, and what could you tell others who are
maybe just getting started, I would say what I learned
about money when I was younger. I'm not saying this
as like this is a lesson you should learn, but
what I did learn was that, you know, money, I
thought was something to be ashamed about. Money is something
that's kind of out of your control. Money is elusive.
(04:21):
Sometimes you have it, sometimes you don't. Money is not
to be discussed, and your money problems mean that you
are dumb and bad at money. That's what I quote
unquote learned. When I started to unpack specifically how we
develop our money habits and the stories we tell ourselves,
I realized, you know, those stories and those quote unquote
(04:42):
lessons were not working for me. But I did learn
them through very real, lived experiences. I learned them through
seeing my family struggle, really being taught not to talk
about it, seeing that none of my friends or family
or anyone around me was talking about it. And so
in my twenties, I then had to sort of manually
turn the bus around and understand that, Okay, these might
(05:03):
be the lessons that I learned, but they're not the
lessons that I want to bring further into my life.
I want to learn new lessons that are going to
help me take down my debt, help me make me
feel good about money, help me use my money to
achieve my goals. And that took a lot. I took
a lot of work, both emotionally and financially. And what
did you take from that? I mean, what is the
thing that you felt turned the bus around? Ultimately the
(05:25):
thing that turned the bus around? And I really beat
this drum in my book money out loud. But the
thing that always turns the bus around for me is
community sharing. I learned that, you know, there's a lot
we can do by ourselves, but we can go so
much further when we share our struggles with each other,
when we share knowledge, when we share experiences. Once I
(05:48):
was sharing my budgeting journey and my debt journey, first
on Instagram and then on YouTube, I found other people
who looked like me, who talked like me, and who
wanted the same help as me, And so I got
to learn out loud. My takeaway from that was everything
is better in community, including money. You know, I learned
everything we learned about money and shame and secrecy. That
was a lie that was meant to keep us down.
(06:11):
That was meant to keep us ignorant. And so now
everything I do is loud, everything I do is in community,
because when we help each other, we go so much further.
So you, through this process developed pretty amazing philosophy about budgeting.
Tell us a little bit about the magic of budgeting. Oh, budgeting.
As I say in my book and everywhere every single day,
(06:33):
is that budgeting is an unfortunate word, sounds sort of
like a burp of a word, but it's a beautiful thing. Budgeting,
to me, is almost this game that I play with myself,
and the way that I play it is I pretend
I am the CEO of my life. The company is
called my life, and all of my dollars are my employees,
(06:54):
and budgeting means giving every single one of my employees,
every single one of my dollars, a specific job. No
dollar can be roaming around my life the building of
the office without a job or else you know, suddenly
I can't pay my bills, or I don't know how
to afford certain things. The jobs that I tried to
give them, at least, the very first jobs that you
(07:16):
should give your dollars are needs, wants and dreams, needs
being you needed to survive, adulting bills, wants being you
don't need it to survive, but it makes you happy
and it makes your life better. And then dreams future stuff,
maybe you're trying to pay down debt or buy something
or go on a trip. And to me, understanding budgeting
(07:37):
as a game that I can play as a tactile
thing where you know, it's so satisfying to give every
single one of those dollars a job, put those dollars
in my needs, wants and dreams, bank accounts. It gives
me this sense of control that I never felt about
money before. I felt very out of control, and budgeting
makes me feel not just control, but like it's kind
of a fun game. I get to reset the game
(07:57):
every time I get a paycheck. I get to make
as many jobs as I want to get to name
those jobs anything that I want. So my philosophy around
budgeting is lots of fun, lots of control, and lots
of creativity. That's a really interesting way to think about it.
And I love this idea of being the CEO of
a company called your Life. You have a book coming
out on April twenty fifth called Money Out Loud, which
(08:20):
I think speaks to your philosophy that sharing and talking
about money and going through the money journey together is
really important. What is this book about? Oh, this book
goes into budgeting and all the things I can tell you.
Specifically Chapter two is about budgeting, but it's seven chapters
of everything we just did not learn in school about money.
(08:41):
And I start off actually not with budgeting our money tips,
but talking about our money story. What did we learn
as kids, as young people about money? How does that
add up to how we feel about money now? How
is that standing in our way of our money life
and our money philosophy. Once we break that down, then
we go into budgeting, aiving, debt, bank accounts, investing, and honestly,
(09:03):
my biggest point of pride in this book is that
I end with the idea of financial activism, which means
that you can move your dollars and even other people's
dollars in a way to change the world how you
see fit. If you have a cause that you care about,
I guarantee you it needs your dollars in some way,
and I talk a little bit about how to do that.
So it goes from like, m let me examine myself
(09:25):
and my money habits too. How can I literally change
the world with my dollars? It's very exciting. Oh my gosh,
I love it. I love First of all, it was
fantastic to be together at the New York Stock Exchange
and hear you talk about some of these tips and
your philosophy. But I'm really looking forward to your book
coming out on April twenty fifth, Money Out Loud. We
really appreciate you being on the show, and honestly, we
appreciate everything that you're doing to help us all develop
(09:48):
better money habits. Thank you so much, Kim. I'm so
honored to have this opportunity and to partner with Secret
and Seneca, and I can't wait to see what other
loud financial magic we make. Thanks for being with us.
So let me recap some of what we learned today. First,
creating a budget is probably the most valuable tool any
young woman can use to get control of her finances.
(10:11):
As Bernah says, budgeting is a beautiful thing. It can
be empowering and even fun. Second, Burnah wants every young
woman to imagine that she is the CEO of a company,
and that company is called your life. As CEO, it's
your responsibility to give a specific job to every dollar
that comes your way. Your dollars, above all, need to
(10:32):
cover three key categories your needs, that is, the things
you need to survive, your wants, and of course, your dreams. Finally,
Burnah wants us to think about money as a real
game changer for ourselves and for others. We can each
ask ourselves, how can I literally change the world with
my dollars for myself and for others? Join me next
(10:55):
week for more money tips for young women on our
next episode of Seneca's Conversation, Secret Money Tips in partnership
with Secret Deodorant. Thank you for listening, and please share
today's podcast episode with others in your life. This is
Kim Azzarelli, co author of Fast Forward and co founder
of Seneca Women. Seneca's Conversations is a production of the
(11:16):
Seneca Women podcast network and iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio,
check out the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you
listen to your favorite shows.
Hi, I'm Kim Azzarelli. Welcome to this brand new season
of Seneca's Conversations. In this season, we're launching a special
five part series on young woman's financial wellness in partnership
with Secret Deodorant. It's called Secret Money Tips. We recently
hosted the Young Woman's Financial Wellness Form at the New
York Stock Exchange in partnership with Secret, renowned financial experts
(00:23):
gave young women their best advice about budgeting, saving, and
investing financial empowerment one oh one. Now we're bringing that
advice to every young woman through this series. I'm happy
to welcome Berna Annatt, a financial educator who calls herself
the financial hype Woman. Berna is also the author of
a new book coming out this month called Money Out Loud. Berna,
(00:45):
it is so great to have you on the show.
Thank you so much for having me. Kim, tell us
briefly about your money journey. What was your relationship to
money growing up? I would say my relationship to money
growing up was a lot like my relationship to anything taboo,
sort of like it's there, but we don't look directly
at it. It's sort of like just the like kind
(01:05):
of gross chair in the corner that mom hasn't gotten
rid of or something. It's there. It's kind of festering,
but we don't acknowledge it. I grew up as a
Filipino American daughter of immigrants, first gen. Both of my
parents are from the Philippines, and this is very common
in Filipino American families that we don't talk about money directly.
We definitely don't talk about our money problems to anybody
(01:27):
outside the family. We don't talk about it inside the
family either, And so witnessing my family go through some
struggles we were lower middle income, knowing that we had
problems paying our mortgage, knowing that we've eventually filed for
bankruptcy and got caught up in the two thousand and
eight housing crisis, all of these things were happening, but
there were no conversations about money. It was just like
(01:47):
implicit shame, that feeling of tension. So growing up, it
was a lot of silence, a lot of shame, and
also a lot of behaviors with money that didn't make
sense for what was happening in my home. Some purchasing
things that it felt like to me we couldn't afford
or flexing about our money in front of other family
or friends when I knew we were struggling. So it
(02:09):
was confusing. The word I would use is confusing. And
after you started working, how did your relationship with money change?
Or did it change? My relationship with money, I think
didn't even really start until I started to examine it,
which was five or six years ago when I started
working as a team. To me, money was this thing
that it was almost like when you're holding a feather
(02:30):
in your hands and it just blows in and out
like it's there for a second and then gone with
the wind basically, and that's the nature of money. Money
to me also was this tool that I could use
to get what I wanted. But I did not understand
that when you're using a tool like debt, you got
to pay that back, and paying it back is not
as easy as some of these institutions will sell to you.
(02:53):
For example, you know, getting my very first credit card.
I won't say the name of the bank, but they
did have a table on our campus in college and
they were offering free sweaters, and so I was like,
I've never had a credit card before. Great, what's this about?
APR and interest don't care. I want a sweater and
I got a free sweater. I got a free That's
really what I wanted was a sweater. And then you're
telling me it's a five hundred dollars credit limit. I
(03:15):
get five hundred dollars to do whatever I want. Yay.
That on top of the eventually forty thousand dollars a
student loan debt that I accrued. I got to my
mid twenties and I was like, oh my gosh, I've
really dug myself into a hole, because at that point
I had like twelve thousand dollars of credit card debt,
and so my relationship with money was again carrying lots
(03:38):
of shame, never talking about it. And it really only
started to change when I got into personal finance, And
it changed the most when I started to share my
journey about getting out of debt, because I just learned
so much about the fact that we're sharing this shame.
A lot of us have the same issues, the same
sort of negative voices in our minds, and that's when
things started to really change. So what was the one
(03:59):
big takeaway? What did you learn about money from those
younger experiences, and what could you tell others who are
maybe just getting started, I would say what I learned
about money when I was younger. I'm not saying this
as like this is a lesson you should learn, but
what I did learn was that, you know, money, I
thought was something to be ashamed about. Money is something
that's kind of out of your control. Money is elusive.
(04:21):
Sometimes you have it, sometimes you don't. Money is not
to be discussed, and your money problems mean that you
are dumb and bad at money. That's what I quote
unquote learned. When I started to unpack specifically how we
develop our money habits and the stories we tell ourselves,
I realized, you know, those stories and those quote unquote
(04:42):
lessons were not working for me. But I did learn
them through very real, lived experiences. I learned them through
seeing my family struggle, really being taught not to talk
about it, seeing that none of my friends or family
or anyone around me was talking about it. And so
in my twenties, I then had to sort of manually
turn the bus around and understand that, Okay, these might
(05:03):
be the lessons that I learned, but they're not the
lessons that I want to bring further into my life.
I want to learn new lessons that are going to
help me take down my debt, help me make me
feel good about money, help me use my money to
achieve my goals. And that took a lot. I took
a lot of work, both emotionally and financially. And what
did you take from that? I mean, what is the
thing that you felt turned the bus around? Ultimately the
(05:25):
thing that turned the bus around? And I really beat
this drum in my book money out loud. But the
thing that always turns the bus around for me is
community sharing. I learned that, you know, there's a lot
we can do by ourselves, but we can go so
much further when we share our struggles with each other,
when we share knowledge, when we share experiences. Once I
(05:48):
was sharing my budgeting journey and my debt journey, first
on Instagram and then on YouTube, I found other people
who looked like me, who talked like me, and who
wanted the same help as me, And so I got
to learn out loud. My takeaway from that was everything
is better in community, including money. You know, I learned
everything we learned about money and shame and secrecy. That
was a lie that was meant to keep us down.
(06:11):
That was meant to keep us ignorant. And so now
everything I do is loud, everything I do is in community,
because when we help each other, we go so much further.
So you, through this process developed pretty amazing philosophy about budgeting.
Tell us a little bit about the magic of budgeting. Oh, budgeting.
As I say in my book and everywhere every single day,
(06:33):
is that budgeting is an unfortunate word, sounds sort of
like a burp of a word, but it's a beautiful thing. Budgeting,
to me, is almost this game that I play with myself,
and the way that I play it is I pretend
I am the CEO of my life. The company is
called my life, and all of my dollars are my employees,
(06:54):
and budgeting means giving every single one of my employees,
every single one of my dollars, a specific job. No
dollar can be roaming around my life the building of
the office without a job or else you know, suddenly
I can't pay my bills, or I don't know how
to afford certain things. The jobs that I tried to
give them, at least, the very first jobs that you
(07:16):
should give your dollars are needs, wants and dreams, needs
being you needed to survive, adulting bills, wants being you
don't need it to survive, but it makes you happy
and it makes your life better. And then dreams future stuff,
maybe you're trying to pay down debt or buy something
or go on a trip. And to me, understanding budgeting
(07:37):
as a game that I can play as a tactile
thing where you know, it's so satisfying to give every
single one of those dollars a job, put those dollars
in my needs, wants and dreams, bank accounts. It gives
me this sense of control that I never felt about
money before. I felt very out of control, and budgeting
makes me feel not just control, but like it's kind
of a fun game. I get to reset the game
(07:57):
every time I get a paycheck. I get to make
as many jobs as I want to get to name
those jobs anything that I want. So my philosophy around
budgeting is lots of fun, lots of control, and lots
of creativity. That's a really interesting way to think about it.
And I love this idea of being the CEO of
a company called your Life. You have a book coming
out on April twenty fifth called Money Out Loud, which
(08:20):
I think speaks to your philosophy that sharing and talking
about money and going through the money journey together is
really important. What is this book about? Oh, this book
goes into budgeting and all the things I can tell you.
Specifically Chapter two is about budgeting, but it's seven chapters
of everything we just did not learn in school about money.
(08:41):
And I start off actually not with budgeting our money tips,
but talking about our money story. What did we learn
as kids, as young people about money? How does that
add up to how we feel about money now? How
is that standing in our way of our money life
and our money philosophy. Once we break that down, then
we go into budgeting, aiving, debt, bank accounts, investing, and honestly,
(09:03):
my biggest point of pride in this book is that
I end with the idea of financial activism, which means
that you can move your dollars and even other people's
dollars in a way to change the world how you
see fit. If you have a cause that you care about,
I guarantee you it needs your dollars in some way,
and I talk a little bit about how to do that.
So it goes from like, m let me examine myself
(09:25):
and my money habits too. How can I literally change
the world with my dollars? It's very exciting. Oh my gosh,
I love it. I love First of all, it was
fantastic to be together at the New York Stock Exchange
and hear you talk about some of these tips and
your philosophy. But I'm really looking forward to your book
coming out on April twenty fifth, Money Out Loud. We
really appreciate you being on the show, and honestly, we
appreciate everything that you're doing to help us all develop
(09:48):
better money habits. Thank you so much, Kim. I'm so
honored to have this opportunity and to partner with Secret
and Seneca, and I can't wait to see what other
loud financial magic we make. Thanks for being with us.
So let me recap some of what we learned today. First,
creating a budget is probably the most valuable tool any
young woman can use to get control of her finances.
(10:11):
As Bernah says, budgeting is a beautiful thing. It can
be empowering and even fun. Second, Burnah wants every young
woman to imagine that she is the CEO of a company,
and that company is called your life. As CEO, it's
your responsibility to give a specific job to every dollar
that comes your way. Your dollars, above all, need to
(10:32):
cover three key categories your needs, that is, the things
you need to survive, your wants, and of course, your dreams. Finally,
Burnah wants us to think about money as a real
game changer for ourselves and for others. We can each
ask ourselves, how can I literally change the world with
my dollars for myself and for others? Join me next
(10:55):
week for more money tips for young women on our
next episode of Seneca's Conversation, Secret Money Tips in partnership
with Secret Deodorant. Thank you for listening, and please share
today's podcast episode with others in your life. This is
Kim Azzarelli, co author of Fast Forward and co founder
of Seneca Women. Seneca's Conversations is a production of the
(11:16):
Seneca Women podcast network and iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio,
check out the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you
listen to your favorite shows.
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