April 3, 2025 • 53 mins
We are used to seeing depression one way: tears, extreme sadness, never leaving the house, pure misery. But for many of us, we experience depression differently. High functioning depression, a kind of depression where an individuals presents as seemingly 'fine' if not successful and thriving is on the rise. But despite outside appearances, it's just as debilitating as the depression we expect. In today's episode we discuss:
- The bad vs. sad stigma present in society
- What we expect depression to look like + why that harms people
- What HF depression really looks like
- What factors increase the likelihood
- The link between overachievers, childhood trauma + hyperindependence
- How to support a loved one with HF depression
- How to cope ourselves + so much more
Listen now!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello everybody, Welcome back to the show. Welcome back to
the podcast, new listeners, old listeners, Wherever you are in
the world, it is so great to have you here
back for another episode as we, of course break down
the psychology of our twenties. Before we get into today's episode, though,
I do want to let you know that we will
be talking about some heavy topics today, including self harm,
(00:24):
suicidal ideation, and grief. So if you are particularly sensitive
to these topics, please consider your need to listen to
this episode right now. It will still be here tomorrow,
in a week, in a few months, or even a
year when you feel more mentally prepared to come back
to it. So please remember your mental health is always
(00:46):
the top priority. So if you do need any further
assistance now or after listening to this episode, there will
be links in the description and I'm sending you a
lot of love and a lot of healing. Okay, So
today I want to take a bit of a vulnerable
turn and talk about something quite personal to me that
I've existed with for many, many years, and that is
(01:09):
high functioning depression. Depression that is almost i would say,
invisible from the outside, but deeply taxing on the inside,
the kind of depression that makes you push and push
and push yourself so that it may seem like you're
okay and that you're doing well, maybe even accomplished, but
(01:31):
everything just takes one percent more and more from you,
and inside you know you are really struggling, despite taking
care of everything on your list, despite appearances, this kind
of breed of depression, I guess it's a lot more
common than we think, and yet we have no idea
of the numbers. We have no idea of how many
(01:52):
people are secretly hiding behind a very high functioning appearance
because we don't talk about it, and because it's so
hard to recognize when it is occurring. People who have
high functioning depression don't get help, they don't feel seen
in the typical depiction of what depression should look like.
(02:14):
For those of us in our twenties as well, I
think it's also so easy at times to conceal this
kind of depression, and it's so easy for us to
feel like that is the appropriate path. That we should
be busy, we should be having fun, we should be
pursuing success. You know, these are the best years of
our lives, and sometimes we believe. You know, I have
(02:38):
no reason to be depressed. You know that that's not
that's not me. I'm in these spectacular youthful years. I
should be happy. I should be happy. And that's where
we really need to fix our misconceptions around depression, not
just that it's not a bad word, but also that
anyone can experience this, even if your life seen perfect,
(03:01):
even if you seemingly have it all together, even if
it doesn't look like it from the outside, even if
people would say you're thriving, the private battle could look very,
very different. And so today we're here to talk about it.
We're here to talk about what high functioning depression looks like,
how to notice it in yourself but also in others,
(03:21):
Why it is so invisible, what creates that concealment, what
creates this nature or breed of depression, and you know
the involvement of stigma, of hyperindependence, of childhood trauma, of
being a high achiever, what all those things have to
do with it. But also how to take care of
yourself even when you don't quote look the part, even
(03:45):
when you feel the pressure to keep it all together.
And additionally, what I wish our family, our friends, our
partners would know about this experience and how they can
help us, and so so so much more so, I'm
actually pretty excited about this Episodso I have wanted to
do it for a long time, but you know, it's
quite private, it's quite a personal experience, and you know,
(04:06):
I kind of kept leaning away from it, but it
feels like the right time to do it. I hope
that it is, if nothing else, informative and makes you
feel seen, or if you are a friend of someone
experiencing this a partner, a loved one, helps you understand
their lived experience more so, without further ado, my lovely
listener is, let's get into it. So I have this theory,
(04:33):
and it's a theory that I've had for a long
time and I talk about it with my friends a lot.
But my theory is that at this point in time,
society expects any person who was mentally ill to fall
into one of two categories. They are either sad or
they are bad. And I'm going to explain this a
little bit further, but based on media portrayals, stereotypes, news stories,
(04:57):
public opinion, people who experienceience mental ill health are either
depicted or seen to be dangerous, harmful, scary, ready to
scream at you, hurt you. They're violent, they should be
off the streets. That's how you know. We see news
articles written about this, that people who have mental illness
are dangerous. We see them depicted in a really poor light.
(05:20):
Or or you are entirely miserable. You are locked in
the house, you look forlorn and terrible. You don't shower,
you don't get out of bed. It's like that scene
in Bridget Jones, like where she's eating ice cream and
watching TV, like locked in her apartment for months, but constantly,
and there is no in between. There is no room
(05:41):
for nuance. Either you are pitied or you are feared.
And if you don't look like that, well you must
be fine. You must be putting it on. It's this
terrible catch twenty two whereby if you meet the stereotype,
you are treated differently and you are expected to hide way.
But if you don't well, then you must not be
(06:03):
unwell enough. You must be lying about what you're experiencing.
It also, I think, really lets people continue to believe that,
you know, well, poor mental health it's not that widespread.
People are just making a big deal out of it
because a lot of the people they do encounter don't
match their preconceived notions. You know, their colleagues, their roommates,
(06:26):
their family friends who they come across every couple of months.
They might be suffering with extreme anxiety, depression, bipolar, OCD,
any number of mood disorders or personality disorders. But because
they don't look like the stereotype, they're easily ignored as
being part of that community. So it really does hurt
(06:48):
everyone in multiple ways the way that any kind of
stereotype will. Like, you cannot siphon down and generalize the
entire experience of in viduals experiencing mental ill health, and
you most certainly cannot put them into one of two
buckets either you are bad or sad. Like I said, So,
(07:10):
this really brings me to how we have been taught
to see depression specifically. Now, let me begin by saying
that in order to be diagnosed with depression, you do
need to meet certain criteria in the DSM, that's the
Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders. You know, if
you go to a doctor, a psychiatrist, a psychologist, they
(07:32):
are going to look for certain things and there are
also and many different, like quite a few different types
of depression. I think sometimes we say, oh, someone's depressed,
and we just think of this general, generic, run of
the mill depression. But you can have major depressive disorder,
persistent depressive disorder, seasonal effective disorder, postpartum depression. Depression is
(07:55):
also part of bipolar. It's all distressing, like all of
them cause a lot of impairment in some form, but
mainly what we are looking for. What a psychiatrist or
a psychologist or a doctor, any number of professionals are
looking for, is a depressive episode. So they want to
know that at some point you have experienced a prolonged
(08:19):
period normally for more than two weeks, of having a
depressed mood, having diminished interest or pleasure in your hobbies
and activities, seeing a change in your weight, in your appetite, insomnia,
modus skills may have declined, diminished ability to think or concentrate.
(08:40):
You might feel very worthless, very tired. And also you
have these rearcurrent thoughts of death, not just a fear
of dying, although that it's part of it, but also
a suicidal ideation, a plan, or you have previously attempted
another thing they are looking for if you want to
(09:02):
be diagnosed with depression or a major depressive disorder, is
that you don't have any manic or hypermanic symptoms. So
basically that means that your depressive symptoms aren't counterbalanced by
a period afterwards of mania, so elevated mood, increased energy, activity, impulsivity,
feelings of grandiosity, that kind of thing. So they want
(09:23):
to rule out that you don't have bipolar disorder or
some other kind of mood disorder. Now that is a
very general and very general understanding of depression. It's definitely
not everything you need to know. But there's one other
component here, and that is when a professional is looking
at the list of criteria, you don't have to meet
them all. So I gave you like a list of
(09:45):
maybe nine, You only have to have between two to
five to diagnose you with a depressive episode, either a
minor or a major depressive episode. So that means that
there are almost and I did I'm here, I went
back to my economics roots. There are almost six hundred
(10:05):
and twenty seven different combinations of symptoms that you could
have to be diagnosed with depression. So this idea that
depression looks one way. Yes, we have a big list
of symptoms, but in order to be diagnosed, you only
need to have maybe three or four or five. So
if we do the combination of them again, six hundred
(10:27):
and twenty seven different combinations of symptoms, you could get
ten people in a room who all have depression, and
they still might not look the same. Some of them
may have lots of energy, insomnia, a depressed mood, but
you know, they're still interested in exercising, they still feel
good about themselves, they still eat normally. Then you could
have someone who predominantly feels quite worthless and is consistently
(10:50):
thinking about death, but they are still able to concentrate,
and they wouldn't classify themselves as being depressed. If you
kind of get where I'm coming from, Like, there is
just so many inns of this, And with that in mind,
it's not just that we have all these combinations, It's
that each person's way of expressing a singular symptom is
also going to be different. So let's talk about being
(11:14):
one that people pull out as markedly diminished interest or
pleasure in most or all activities. That is going to
look really different for different people. For one person, they
may no longer find joy in their favorite hobbies like
painting or playing music. For another, it could be that
they still enjoy their hobbies, but they are withdrawing from
social gatherings. For someone else, it's that they can't find
(11:36):
motivation to do basic things like cooking or showering, but
they still find time to be social. So again, each symptom,
there will be individual differences. This is why, this is
my argument for why we cannot be led to believe
that depression is going to look one certain way on
everyone all the time. The notion of depression as extradre
(12:00):
sadness or crying all the time, isolation, staying in bed,
a crisis, and inability to function. It does not explain
everybody's experience. And you know what, there is no shame
in your depression looking that way. In fact, for me,
at times it has looked that way. I talked about
that in my episode on my mental breakdown last year.
You know, there was a period where my depression presented
(12:22):
in a very stereotypical way. But it cannot be the
only narrative being told by society. That limited perspective can
be harmful because it overlooks the many hidden or subtle
ways that depression can show up, like irritability, like perfectionism, overworking,
physical symptoms that people might confuse with physical ill health,
(12:43):
or excessive socializing, all of these coping mechanisms that aren't
typically thought of. So this kind of brings me to
what we're talking about today, high functioning depression. Sorry it's
taken me so long to get here, but I promise
that explanation was worth it. Functioning depression it's not a
medical diagnosis, but it is a form of depression that
(13:04):
we can recognize where from the outside, someone looks very capable, successful,
perfectly happy. They look like they're doing well, but below
the surface, they are really struggling and they're experiencing a
lot of personal or private impairment. It is the kind
of depression or depressive episode that doesn't meet the stereotype,
(13:25):
and because of that, people sometimes feel like their experience
is less valid. Maybe they don't deserve the same level
of help as others. Maybe they have been misdiagnosed. But
none of this is true. It's just that the reality
of their depression is different to what we've been told.
(13:45):
Now I'm gonna say this. I do think that the
term high functioning depression it's not the best choice of words.
I don't love it all that much. It's kind of
the same reason why I guess people don't like high
functioning autism. It's obviously not an official diagnosis, and it
(14:05):
almost has the effect of ranking individuals on like some
merit base like are you worthy and high functioning or
are you low functioning and not worthy? Like? There is
this weird hierarchy to it. It's not inclusive, and it
can sometimes be quite misleading. You know, high functioning doesn't
mean someone doesn't need support. Here are some other reasons
(14:26):
why people are trying to maybe steer us away from
the term high functioning depression. It can really minimize the struggle.
Of course, people with high functioning depression experience just as
much emotional pain, self doubt, and exhaustion, even if from
the outside they're great at masking it. It does. You know,
that term does really reinforce a very toxic productivity mindset
(14:50):
kind of suggests that as long as you are productive,
your mental health isn't a problem and you don't need
help for it. It also definitely create it's a barrier
to diagnoses and treatment, and you know what, depression, whether
it's high functioning or low functioning, which that's the part
of it that I hate, low functioning like you still
(15:12):
you still are struggling, and it exists on a spectrum
like everything else does. So I actually typically call it
something else in my own life. In my day to
day life, I refer to high functioning depression as masked
depression or disguised depression, because I just think that that's
a better term for it. So what does masked depression
(15:37):
or disguised depression look like? How does that compare to
what we've been told to think about it. I'm going
to use my own experience as an example here. I
think from the outside sometimes I have made the mistake
of trying too hard to pretend that everything is perfect
(15:57):
in my life, either online or with my family and friends,
even with my partner, and it's meant that I will
truly be in the trenches. I will be thinking terrible
dark thoughts, struggling with zero motivation, wanting to sleep fifteen
hours a day. And if someone was like, hey, how
are you even like my partner, even like my friends,
and be like, oh, how are you going? I can
(16:19):
be quite dismissive of that question and be like I'm fine,
Like I'm fine, I'm good, yeap, super super good. I
think master depression is wanting to keep up the appearance
that your life is okay, either consciously or unconsciously. Perhaps
unconsciously because you know admitting it to other people, allowing
(16:40):
the symptoms to be visible would mean that you would
have to acknowledge it. I think people with master depression
often overwork themselves. They often have a lot on their plate.
They often surround themselves with a lot of other high achievers.
They put a lot of responsibilities on their plate, they
don't take breaks, They push themselves to a point of burnout,
(17:05):
and then they also go through a lot more periods
of withdrawal. So you just don't see them for a while.
You know, you can't reach them, you can't access them,
all in an effort from them to keep what they're
going through quite private. You know, master depression comes with
a lot of unconscious pretenses, probably because we have internalized
(17:28):
the stigma surrounding looking depressed and we don't want to
be lumped into the sad box, but also because it's
meant for me at least that a lot of my
symptoms impacted things that people normally don't see, so it's
easier to conceal. So that's the part of it that's
not necessarily conscious. It just kind of happens, you know.
(17:49):
It would be hard to know how tired I am
if you only met me for two hours or we
only had dinner once a week, because my fatigue is
quite a private symptom. The same with like the spiraling
negative thought patterns, the thoughts of death, the existential questions.
Those are hard to see because they're not outward facing,
(18:09):
because you can't climb into my brain and look around
and be like ugh, yuck, like this is not good,
Like someone needs to clean this up, this is not healthy.
Like you can't do that. You know, you can't come
into my house and see what a message is unless
I invited you. So I think for people with high
functioning depression, yes there is a sense of like they
really feel the need to conceal it, But it may
(18:30):
also be that their depression shows up in a much
more private manner just by the nature of what symptoms
are occurring. People with mass depression, I also think, involve
themselves in a lot of very private coping as well,
so coping mechanisms that aren't necessarily visible, emotional eating, relying
on alcohol, drinking whole bottle of wine by themselves at home,
(18:51):
social media, or again work to numb themselves. And that
numbness is a huge component of this, and I think
it's something that once we can step into and once
we can blunt our emotions numb ourselves to the world,
it means that we can carry ourselves through truly anything
because we don't have to feel our feelings. Basically we
(19:14):
can switch on ordered pilot and still do all the
things that need to be done in order to be
accepted and be seen as quite functioning. But also because
of that, we're not really investing in anything deeply. So
you know, you may work really really hard on some
big project, you get amazing feedback, you have amazing results,
and you still feel empty or something great has happened
(19:37):
in your life because you've detached from the bad stuff
as well, and you've numbed yourself to your experiences, it
just feels like nothing. Falling in love, for example, you know,
you could be dating someone and you're like, Wow, this
person is incredible. How come I can't commit fully emotionally
to this experience, not even to this person, but just
to the niceness of falling in love. Someone actually explained
(20:01):
this really, really well, and it was a listener who
DMed me with a question, and part of her question
or her message to me said, it's like I'm looking
down into my own life with no emotions, like I'm
watching it from above. And that is exactly the perfect description,
Like it always reminds me. I don't know if you've
(20:22):
seen the Amy Winehouse documentary. Amy Winehouse, of course, had
depression herself, amongst a litany of other really difficult things.
And there's a scene in the documentary which I love.
I love that documentary. But she wins a Grammy and
they're filming her and she looks so excited and stunned
(20:44):
and everyone who loves her is there and it should
be like the highlight of her life. And then her
friend pulls her aside, or she pulls her friend aside.
Something happens and her friend is like, oh my god,
this is so exciting, and she's just like, I feel nothing,
Like I just feel absolutely nothing. This should be the
best day of my life, and I feel nothing. And
(21:05):
I think that a big part of that is probably
an episode of mass depression where she felt like in
the moment she needed to be on and be okay,
but the moment there was a trusted person there, it
was like the mask slipped. So this is what it
looks like. Maybe you can see yourself in these descriptions.
You can see yourself in the overachiever, the over worker,
(21:29):
in the emotional numbness, in the hitting coping mechanisms. I
want to talk about why it occurs, you know, besides stigma,
besides some of the things we've talked about, what are
the contributing factors to mass depression. Well, we are going
to take a short break, quick decompress for a second.
(21:49):
But when we return, we will talk origins and we
will of course also talk about how to cope. Stay
with us, okay, So there are some main explanations for
while you may find yourself masking your depression or identifying
(22:11):
as quote unquote high functioning. Firstly, a big, big part
of it comes down to not just how, but where
you were raised. You might have come from a family
or culture that teaches people not to talk about mental illness,
in which case a form of mass depression, master anxiety,
(22:33):
masked anything is much more likely. Something really interesting I've
noticed is the correlation between countries that report low mental
illness rates and the rate of stigma. You know, it's
most likely that if we went into every single country
and we did proper examinations and diagnoses, about a third
(22:54):
of people across their lifetime would have mental ill health.
The kind of accepted rate that people suggest is most
likely if people actually got diagnosed. So when a country
or a government is saying, oh, you know, well, mental
ill health, the rate of that in our country is
one or two percent, I always look at that and
I'm like, that means that the rate of masking and
(23:17):
high functioning or disguised depression, anxiety, or city bipolar, whatever
it is, is so much higher. And it also means
A there is probably a lot of stigma and instances
that are ignored. B They probably don't have the infrastructure
to even measure mental ill health rates or see the
true you know, the true problem is that it's being
deliberately hidden and they don't want to acknowledge it. It's
(23:39):
probably a combination of all three. So, as a result,
if you are living in a country where they're like, ah,
our rate of depression is zero point one percent or
zero point five percent, The chances of mass depression in
a community like that is going to be a lot higher.
You may have also developed mass depression if you think
(23:59):
you'll feel better by powering through it on your own. Now,
where does that come from? I'm sure a lot of
you are like screaming into your friends. Like childhood, it
comes from childhood, and it does. It comes from being
taught that self sufficiency was the way, and your self
sufficiency and independence was rewarded, which is an important thing
for a child's development, but it was rewarded to an
(24:20):
extent that like, you were discouraged from showing vulnerability or
asking for help, so when you really did need assistance,
your parents were like, we're not going to get involved
in that. That can really lead to a sense of hyperindependence,
I e. If I can't manage this alone, if I
can't do this alone, I'm weak. And this kind of
messaging can cause us to minimize our experiences and think,
(24:42):
you know, I don't have it as bad as that
person does, as a way of denial and avoidance. I
also think master depression is more likely if you are
trying to avoid any impact of your depression on your job,
on your relationships, on your life, and you are hoping
that if you just ignore it for long enough, it
(25:03):
will lift, like this is just a time thing. I
think this is basically a fear of losing momentum, a
fear of losing progress, which is very common in a
success obsessed society. It's also a fear of losing control.
You know, something I've heard from a lot of people
and even some listeners is this fear that if you
(25:25):
let yourself acknowledge and feel depressed, or admit it to yourself,
or lean in to the terrible feelings, you are going
to lose touch with your reality and you're going to
lose touch with your sanity. Basically, we have this fear
that if we don't mask our depression to the world
and therefore to ourselves, we are going to go quote
(25:45):
unquote crazy. The thing is, I get this fear. It
really rarely happens. In fact, you are actually more likely
to experience severe symptoms, but again mostly irreversible symptoms if
you keep suppressing and avoiding what you're going through, because
the emotional toll is going to become greater and more strenuous.
(26:08):
But I promise you that if you acknowledge it, and
you look at it in the eyes and you get help,
you're not going to lose your sanity. You're not going
to lose your mind. And this idea and this fear,
I understand it. We all want to feel calm and
stable in our lives. But really it does just come
back to stigma, and it comes back to that age
old story we've been told, back to the times when
(26:31):
most mental illnesses were just labeled hysteria and you were
put in an asylum, that this experience is terrible and
it's going to ruin your life, and it's going to
make you different, and it's just going to cause you harm.
Like that's what we have been led to believe. It's
going to make you crazy. That's not true. Let me
say this, There are so many more treatments, more pathways,
(26:53):
more options for people nowadays. There is nothing as well
that you will have to go through alone. This will
not be the first time that a doctor or a
psychologist has seen something similar to your case. This is
not going to be the first time someone has had
to go through what you're going through. And even if
the worst, worst worst case scenario happens, which it won't,
(27:16):
but you find yourself losing your sanity, which you won't,
You're still going to find a way to come back
to yourself. I promise you that, and getting help sooner,
accessing your emotions sooner will only ever help that, it
will never make that worse. But I do think that's
a big component of sometimes unconsciously masking out depression. We
(27:41):
don't want to acknowledge that it could get worse, but
by doing that, we allow it to get worse. Sometimes, though,
master depression actually just comes from trauma and it's just
expressed that way without any kind of conscious decision to
conceal it. So there is an amazing research paper that
was published last year, last year, maybe even this year.
(28:05):
It was published very recently. It's titled Understanding High Functioning
Depression in Adults, and in it they conducted one hundred
and twenty interviews with individuals between eighteen and seventy five
who had been identified as having mass depression. They obviously
call it high functioning depression, twenty of whom out of
the one hundred and twenty, had extreme high functioning depression
(28:27):
to the point where you know, someone actually had recommended
them to the study. They didn't even believe that they
had a problem, but it was quite obvious that they did.
They found a very very very strong correlation between mass
or high functioning depression and trauma. In particular, a lot
of these individuals had experienced a lot of compounding minor traumas,
(28:50):
but also a lot of big trauma as well, such
that you know, especially if it had occurred at an
early age, maybe their brains had begun to process their
emotions differently and detach very very early on from big
feelings to protect themselves emotionally. They also found that people
with high functioning depression, as they called it, were more
(29:12):
likely to experience something called an donia. This is a
lack of pleasure in everyday activities and enjoys, and they
suggested that the higher rates of anadonia in people with
high functioning depression might actually be contributing to them being
quite overachievers or pushing themselves because their kind of baseline
(29:35):
for experiencing pleasure is so much higher, so more needs
to occur, more needs to happen, They need to achieve
more success in order to feel the level of pride
and enjoyment and pleasure that you know someone else would
feel from just getting a good job from their boss. Essentially,
they need a bigger win. They need to strive and
(29:58):
feel much more important. They need a much higher level
of success to reach that pleasure threshold that you know
someone else would reach quite easily. That's the big takeaway.
And odonia and high functioning depression are linked, but also
trauma and high functioning depression. So those are a few
explanations for why it is that you may be experiencing
(30:21):
this type of depression, why it is more common in
certain cultures, certain communities, in people who have been raised
a certain way. Now, I want to talk about what
we're going to do about it. We have this experience,
we're living this experience. What do we do. I want
to start out by just firstly having a little heart
(30:42):
to heart here, you know, between you and me, and acknowledging, Okay,
this is something you are experiencing and you're going through
and which you have to manage day in and day out,
regardless of whether other people are seeing it or not.
I think I know the kind of person you probably are,
and I know that you're probably putting on such a
(31:03):
brave face, and I know how hard you're trying, and
I know you have to give one hundred and fifty
percent where everyone else might only have to give fifty,
and I know you must be so tired. I know
how hard it is. I also know you probably go
back and forth over whether you deserve to have the
label and receive support. You probably go back and forth
(31:26):
over whether this is even real, because you're trying to
perhaps convince yourself it's not. And I know you're trying
so hard. I know you are trying to keep up appearances.
Just want to validate that experience for you, because it's
so freaking hard and tough, and it's exhausting, it's frustrating,
(31:47):
but it also doesn't have to continue to be invisible.
I think once we acknowledge, okay, just because my depression
is high functioning doesn't mean it doesn't exist, that's the
first step. I think the next step after that is
being prepared to talk to others about this. Literally, you
could just send them this episode if you want to,
(32:08):
and just say, hey, you know all those things I've
been struggling with, I think it's this. This explains it well.
You can also just start being honest with your family,
your closest friends, your partner when they ask you how
are you? How are you going? What would it feel
like to just finally say, you know what, not good
and I'm hurting and this is hard and can you
(32:31):
please help me? What would that feel like? Something that
completely changed how I think about asking for help was
someone said to me, once your loved ones actually want
the opportunity to love you. You are giving them the
gift of being able to show you how much they care.
(32:51):
Like that's an honor to them, That's a gift, that's
an opportunity. And I thought about the people in my
life who I love and how I love being given
the opportunity to show them that I would do anything
for them, Like that's actually a real privilege to have
that trust, and it's a gift. You know, invite people
into your hard moments, keep them in the loop with
(33:14):
your hard days. When they offer to help you, just
try out saying yes. See how it feels. Think about
all the times that you've said yes for others. You know,
you've paid your dues, you do so much for other people,
it's okay to accept some help back. In fact, I
think you might really deserve it. Actually, why did I
even say I think I know you really deserve it.
(33:36):
You've spent so long proving that you don't, that you
can do it yourself. We know that now, like we
know that you are capable. We know that if no
one helped you, you would be fine. But is that
really the way that you want to be? Is that
the way you want to live? Is that the only option?
You know, it's a strange thing to rewire your mind
to accept help and to let people in after so
(34:00):
many years of trying to prove to yourself that you
didn't need to do that. But it is so liberating
to just have someone see you for what you're really
experiencing and to want to love you and help you.
And it is like anything else, with practice, it gets easier,
you get better at it, It becomes more second nature
(34:24):
to you. You know sometimes, and we do need to
acknowledge this. We aren't always going to be met with acceptance,
and that's when the real battle begins. Right, you have
opened up. It's taken you so much to kind of
pull back the mask, and you're shut down. I want
to say, if that is the case, and you're thinking,
you know, it would have been better if I just
(34:45):
kept this inside, and you know, if I just made
everyone else comfortable and didn't bother them. This is where
I really want you to pause. You cannot spend your
entire life trying to make everyone else's life easier and
more comfortable, especially when it makes it harder for you.
You just simply cannot. You know, the stigma they are
(35:06):
feeling is an issue for them, and it doesn't change
your experience. Sometimes I also find these people who are
so readily quick to deny your experience and to say, well,
you're not depressed, you're fine, you know you're okay. I
often think these are the people who are lying to
themselves as well, because they're looking at you and they're saying, well,
(35:29):
if that person isn't fine, what about all these things
I've been trying to hide? What about all these secret
parts of me that I have suppressed for so long?
As well? I think often our openness challenges people to
recognize what their closed offness has cost them. In these instances, though,
I think it's not worth waiting for someone to change
(35:50):
their mind. That might sound brutal, It's not worth waiting
to convince someone of your existence, of your reality, and
how you're experiencing the world. Please, this very vulnerable period,
focus on those who bring you up with total acceptance.
Focus on the people for whom if you said I'm
having a really bad day, they'd say I'm coming over,
or they'd say I see you, I feel you, I'm sorry.
(36:13):
I also want you to challenge yourself to prioritize rest
without guilt, because chances are you're overfunctioning, and your acts
of trying to compensate for how you feel through success
and overworking are probably taking even more of a mental toll.
(36:34):
So I need something from you. I need you to
schedule a day or a weekend of nothing. I need
you to make that a practice. You know, I'm sure
if I set any other kind of goal for you, you
would meet it really, really quickly. Your goal here is
to rest, it's to not be productive. I need you
to put effort into this. I need you to be
(36:54):
switching off by eight pm at the latest from work,
from your responsibilities, from your phone. I need you to
take your sick leave. Something I always say to people
is that sickly you have earned that. That is part
of your wage, That is part of your salary, like
sick leave is deducted from your total salary that they
(37:17):
expected to pay you and put into a separate account. Basically,
that's how I see it. You still have access and
rights to that money, So you need to take your
sick leave. You need to slow down for just a second.
You know, your worth and personality does not only come
from how productive you can be or efficient. Like we
know you can be productive. I know you can be productive.
(37:38):
I know you're a high achiever. Rest is an essential
part in keeping you well as well and in keeping
you alive, and if it helps you in any way,
it's also an important part in keeping you productive, if
we really want to go that far. In fact, if
if you were focused on success and that's something that's
really important to you, which I'm sure it is. People
(38:01):
who allow themselves rest and who give themselves downtime only
come back better than ever. Let's give some examples here,
Simone Biles, Serena Williams Adele. You know she took a
five year break from her singing career and came back
with one of her best albums ever. Now, no one
is going to look at those women and say God
(38:22):
like she really hasn't done much with her time, like
she's such a failure because she took time for herself
and she rested no like these women are like at
the top of their game. These women and people in general,
there are so many more examples. They restored their bodies,
they restored their minds, and they came back better and
stronger than ever. And that's what I need from you.
(38:45):
We need more examples of this in the age we're in,
you know, we need to get rid of this hustle
mentality which serves no one, and focus on how you
are going to last the distance, how you are going
to ease up on yourself, how you are going to
take care of yourself and be present. There is no
(39:05):
point working extremely hard for something if by the time
you get there, you are ready to collapse and you
cannot even appreciate it. Following up from that in terms
of advice so people with high functioning depression, I also
saw an amazing piece of advice from a psychiatrist in
a recent School of Psychology article that spoke about how
(39:25):
people with master depression actually really benefit from breaking out
of their routine and not just prioritizing rest, of course,
but also going on these microadventures, and this researcher was
looking at the initiation and addition of novelty into the
lives of people with depression and how that really improved
(39:48):
their well being. So going on these little adventures, not
big things, not solo traveling, not large scale Europe holidays
or Asia holidays or whatever, but just small, everyday things
was really really amazing for their well being and really
broke up the monotonous nature of their lives. And what
she was saying in this article is that people with
(40:09):
master depression, they often find a lot of solace in
their routine because it allows them to further slip into
autopilot mode, but it also becomes really restrictive and secretly
quite exhausting. So allowing yourself planned time to go explore
is so important. Like go to a go strawberry picking.
I did that this weekend. Amazing, it was so much fun.
(40:31):
It costs like ten dollars. Like go strawberry picking, go
on a weekend hike, go walk some foster dogs, Like
I have a foster dog right now called Talu, and
like she has changed my life in terms of getting
out of the house, exploring my neighborhood, meeting new people,
have a gallery day, have a picnic, just like drive
(40:52):
the however long it takes to get to the beach,
I guess I live in Australia, so it's not that long.
But you know, go to a beautiful body of water
and submerge yourself in it, explore your city. I really
think that micro adventures are so fantastic because novelty for
depression in general is fantastic. Depression by nature is quite limiting,
(41:16):
and it keeps things very small and less vibrant and restrictive.
So to counteract that, you need to give your mind
opportunities to see that things are quite expansive and quite wide,
and that there is beauty outside of your routine and
your desire to appear okay, like you have to put
(41:36):
yourself into these new environments, whattch yourself, grow what your
self experience life and joy and beauty, and see how
you come back from those days and just feel so enriched.
If you want, you know more general tips for managing depression,
not specifically master depression. I do have an entire episode
called Let's Talk about Depression, very aptly titled that I
(42:00):
think would be super super useful, and I would direct
you to go listen to that because it's just there's
so much more information in there. But for now we
are actually going to take another short break, and when
we return, we have everyone's favorite segment, our listener questions,
including some questions from you all on how to take
care of a partner with master depression, high functioning burnout,
(42:23):
how it shows up in relationships, and how to get
yourself to act when you know what you should be doing.
So all of that and more very very shortly. So
we've been trialing out this new section of the podcast
where we invite listeners to send in specific questions. On
(42:44):
Instagram you can follow me at that Psychology podcast, and
I've been loving it. I think you guys have been
enjoying it as well, you know. I think it allows
people to really ask the questions that they're interested in
and ask more niche questions. Obviously, the podcast episodes we
do try and go into detail and in depth, but
(43:04):
it is quite general. If you have specific questions based
on what you're going through, or what you're seeing in
your community, or just some unique piece of research like
I love to be able to answer that in the show.
Rather than waiting till afterwards to get your feedback. But
of course this is still in the early days, so
if you like it, if you don't like it, please
(43:24):
let me know in the comments below. If you know
everyone says Okay, we don't like the listener questions, we're
done with those. We will of course stop. But I'm
hoping that you are enjoying it, So the only way
to know is if you tell me. So, I'd love
to hear what you think about this segment. Without further ado,
let's talk about the questions that we got this week,
because they were so fantastic and they also followed some
(43:48):
really amazing themes. So the first question I chose came
from a listener asking my boyfriend of three years confided
in me that he has depression, and I've definitely seen
signs over the years, but he is very secretive about
it and keeps a brave face. He's also quite successful
and he works in finance, and he has a lot
(44:09):
of friends and plays futsal and sport. But when he's struggling,
he withdraws even from me. How do I help him?
Let me firstly acknowledge that being the partner of someone
with master depression can be very emotionally difficult and distressing,
not because there's anything wrong with that person, but because
I know that if you could, you would do anything
(44:31):
to take that pain away. I know that I know
that you want to help them in every fiber of
your being, and you also just want to understand what
they're experiencing, like you would fight any battle if you
knew what was going on. But for people with mass depression,
it's very hard to let others in, not because you
know they don't like you, they don't love you, not
(44:52):
because they don't want to, but because they're so used
to taking care of themselves and keeping it very very private.
And I know on the outside it looks like they're
shutting you out and they don't trust you. I promise
that's not the case. In fact, I think they just
don't want you to take on any of the pain,
like they're trying not to burden you as well. The
(45:13):
biggest recommendation I would have as someone who is the
partner in my situation is to just do things without
having them ask you to do them. That will make
their life easier. So don't ask do you want me
to do your laundry for you. Don't ask do you
want me to cook tonight? Do you want me to
organize that thing you've been putting off. Don't give them
(45:35):
the option to say no, because they will always say
no because they don't want to bother you. Just do
it for them. You know they're not going to ask
for help, but they secretly do kind of want it
and need it. Now. It doesn't mean that you're fixing
things with them. It doesn't need that you need to
become their caretaker. Just small things that you can see
are really like causing them stress. They're not going like,
(45:59):
they're not going to ask you to do it for them.
Just take the initiative and step in where you feel capable.
I'd also really encourage you to do fun things with
your partner, even if sometimes they don't want to do them.
You know they'll be happy when they finally, like when
they're there, even if they feel exhausted in the moment.
(46:21):
Plan those microadventures for them. Ask them on a date,
you know, surprise them with the picnic or something fun.
And my boyfriend does this for me and it's so
helpful in making me feel excited by my life because
you know, it's a surprise. I don't always have the
mental energy to plan these things myself, and then I
just get to do it with my favorite person in
(46:42):
the world, and it's so incredible. My final tip as well,
and this one hopefully it grows without saying, but I
am going to say it anyways, Please take care of yourself.
You know you don't need to do everything for them.
You don't need to find a solution. You also don't
need to give every part of yourself to make sure
they're okay at the end of the day. And I
(47:03):
know people will disagree with me here, but you do
come first in every situation. You do come first. You
should be your own first priority. So it's okay to
take space. It's okay to also communicate your needs. Even
if it feels like their mental burden is bigger or
more worthwhile than yours. That's not the case. Like you
(47:24):
also have needs and have struggles of your own that
deserve to be appreciated. So here is question two for
today's episode. How can you tell the difference between long
term high functioning or master depression and just being burnt out?
This one is tricky. Honestly, I think they sometimes feel
(47:44):
the same at times, you could even have both at
the same time, because burnout isn't just physical, it's mental
and emotional as well, and it can actually lead to
a depressed state or trigger a depressive episode. I think
the biggest way to tell the difference is whether it's
exhaustion or a lack of interest that you're experiencing, and
whether the exhaustion is being met with consistent, persistent sadness.
(48:08):
So with burnout, it's often like you're just so tired
that you can't do anything, but you still kind of
want to and you still kind of want the opportunity.
But you know, with depression, it's like, yes, you're exhausted
because you're mentally drained, but you also have no desire
sometimes to even you have no desire to do the
(48:28):
things that you would normally want to do. You have
no desire to become more motivated, you have no desire
to you know, be social. But with burnout, you're like,
I really wish I could do those things, I just can't.
Here are some good questions as well to tell the difference.
So do you feel better after a break? If yes,
that's probably burnout. Has this lasted for months or years,
(48:51):
even with changes in a routine. In your routine, if yes,
that's probably master depression. Do you still care about things
even if you don't have energy if yes, burnout? Do
you feel indifferent to things that you once loved? If yes,
master depression. I also think you know taking care of
(49:12):
yourself will be similar for both of these things, so
you might find that just acting on one may eliminate
the other or may help, So you don't always need
to know whether it's burnout or depression immediately. The main
things of getting rest, of pulling back from things that
are stressing you out or additional responsibilities, the main objective
(49:36):
of offloading tasks and asking for help and going easy
from your easy on yourself, Like, that's going to be
the same regardless of what situation you're in, So yeah,
approach that way. Okay, Our final question for the day.
I know I have high functioning depression, and I know
what I need to do to feel better and get
to a better place, but I can't bring myself to
(49:57):
do it. How do I motivate myself when all my
energy is going to just trying to stay afloat? Firstly,
I'm so sorry you're feeling this way. I know what
must be so frustrating for you when you push yourself
so hard in every other area of your life, and
it can feel very hopeless when it comes to this
very big hurdle. The best thing I can recommend you
(50:19):
do that's worked for me is to just pick one
thing at a time to improve. If you are an overachiever,
we tend to put everything on the list, right you know,
we acknowledge. Okay, I have a depression, I'm feeling terrible.
I need to act on this. And if I have
to act, I have to do a million things right
now to change my life, to change my attitude, to
(50:39):
feel better, to get help. That can lead you to
feel very overwhelmed because your perfectionism kicks in. You know,
if I can't do all of it, I should do
none of it, and you get overwhelmed by where to
start because everything is suddenly equally important. So what we
need to focus on is just one change for every
two weeks. So the first two weeks I just want
(51:00):
you to focus on, Okay, I'm going to put all
my energy, the limited energy I have to seeing a
doctor who's going to help me find a therapist. In
that second. That second chapter, and then after that, my
next task is going to be reaching out, and I'm
going to give myself a couple of days, a couple
of weeks to do that so I don't feel overwhelmed.
Then when I'm ready, I'm gonna start implementing behavioral changes.
(51:24):
When I'm ready, I'm going to start booking appointments. Then
I'm going to start journaling once a week. But we
are going slow. We are making small incremental changes that
tend to snowball into much bigger results. So just seeing
your life as the next two weeks. What can you
do in the next two weeks that are going to
(51:45):
make you feel better in the moment. You don't have
to think about the long term. You don't have to
be obsessed with curing yourself or getting everything done. I
just want you to focus on one thing at a
time and just don't overwhelm yourself. We'll get there slowly
and surely. So I think this is all we have
time for today. I know it's been a long episode,
(52:07):
so thank you if you have made it this far.
You guys know I always love to drop a little
emoji hint for the loyal listeners amongst you who get
to this point. So today I want you to leave
an emoji of your favorite animal. I don't know why
I chose that. It just seems fun, it seems appropriate,
It seems a little bit lighthearted given how heavy this
(52:30):
episode was, So yes, drop your favorite animal as an
emoji below. Remember there are also resources listed in the description,
ways to access help, further, ways to educate yourself, whether
you are someone with master depression or someone helping a
loved one. And I just want to send you a
lot of love and healing. Like I know this is
(52:50):
very difficult. Whatever is drawn you to this episode today
and drawn you to listen this far, I'm sure it
can sometimes feel quite heavy. So I'm with you and
that pain and with you and that struggle. I've been there,
and I can say that we do get better and
life does feel amazing again. And if you're on mask
and if you let people in, it just gets so
(53:13):
much lighter. So I really, I really want that for you.
But until next time, my lovely lovely listeners, make sure
you are following me on Instagram at that Psychology podcast.
Make sure you pre order my book. It comes out
in less than a month, And I'd love to hear
your thoughts on it when you finally get a copy,
and until next time, stay safe, be kind, be gentle
with yourself, and we will talk very very soon,
Hello everybody, Welcome back to the show. Welcome back to
the podcast, new listeners, old listeners, Wherever you are in
the world, it is so great to have you here
back for another episode as we, of course break down
the psychology of our twenties. Before we get into today's episode, though,
I do want to let you know that we will
be talking about some heavy topics today, including self harm,
(00:24):
suicidal ideation, and grief. So if you are particularly sensitive
to these topics, please consider your need to listen to
this episode right now. It will still be here tomorrow,
in a week, in a few months, or even a
year when you feel more mentally prepared to come back
to it. So please remember your mental health is always
(00:46):
the top priority. So if you do need any further
assistance now or after listening to this episode, there will
be links in the description and I'm sending you a
lot of love and a lot of healing. Okay, So
today I want to take a bit of a vulnerable
turn and talk about something quite personal to me that
I've existed with for many, many years, and that is
(01:09):
high functioning depression. Depression that is almost i would say,
invisible from the outside, but deeply taxing on the inside,
the kind of depression that makes you push and push
and push yourself so that it may seem like you're
okay and that you're doing well, maybe even accomplished, but
(01:31):
everything just takes one percent more and more from you,
and inside you know you are really struggling, despite taking
care of everything on your list, despite appearances, this kind
of breed of depression, I guess it's a lot more
common than we think, and yet we have no idea
of the numbers. We have no idea of how many
(01:52):
people are secretly hiding behind a very high functioning appearance
because we don't talk about it, and because it's so
hard to recognize when it is occurring. People who have
high functioning depression don't get help, they don't feel seen
in the typical depiction of what depression should look like.
(02:14):
For those of us in our twenties as well, I
think it's also so easy at times to conceal this
kind of depression, and it's so easy for us to
feel like that is the appropriate path. That we should
be busy, we should be having fun, we should be
pursuing success. You know, these are the best years of
our lives, and sometimes we believe. You know, I have
(02:38):
no reason to be depressed. You know that that's not
that's not me. I'm in these spectacular youthful years. I
should be happy. I should be happy. And that's where
we really need to fix our misconceptions around depression, not
just that it's not a bad word, but also that
anyone can experience this, even if your life seen perfect,
(03:01):
even if you seemingly have it all together, even if
it doesn't look like it from the outside, even if
people would say you're thriving, the private battle could look very,
very different. And so today we're here to talk about it.
We're here to talk about what high functioning depression looks like,
how to notice it in yourself but also in others,
(03:21):
Why it is so invisible, what creates that concealment, what
creates this nature or breed of depression, and you know
the involvement of stigma, of hyperindependence, of childhood trauma, of
being a high achiever, what all those things have to
do with it. But also how to take care of
yourself even when you don't quote look the part, even
(03:45):
when you feel the pressure to keep it all together.
And additionally, what I wish our family, our friends, our
partners would know about this experience and how they can
help us, and so so so much more so, I'm
actually pretty excited about this Episodso I have wanted to
do it for a long time, but you know, it's
quite private, it's quite a personal experience, and you know,
(04:06):
I kind of kept leaning away from it, but it
feels like the right time to do it. I hope
that it is, if nothing else, informative and makes you
feel seen, or if you are a friend of someone
experiencing this a partner, a loved one, helps you understand
their lived experience more so, without further ado, my lovely
listener is, let's get into it. So I have this theory,
(04:33):
and it's a theory that I've had for a long
time and I talk about it with my friends a lot.
But my theory is that at this point in time,
society expects any person who was mentally ill to fall
into one of two categories. They are either sad or
they are bad. And I'm going to explain this a
little bit further, but based on media portrayals, stereotypes, news stories,
(04:57):
public opinion, people who experienceience mental ill health are either
depicted or seen to be dangerous, harmful, scary, ready to
scream at you, hurt you. They're violent, they should be
off the streets. That's how you know. We see news
articles written about this, that people who have mental illness
are dangerous. We see them depicted in a really poor light.
(05:20):
Or or you are entirely miserable. You are locked in
the house, you look forlorn and terrible. You don't shower,
you don't get out of bed. It's like that scene
in Bridget Jones, like where she's eating ice cream and
watching TV, like locked in her apartment for months, but constantly,
and there is no in between. There is no room
(05:41):
for nuance. Either you are pitied or you are feared.
And if you don't look like that, well you must
be fine. You must be putting it on. It's this
terrible catch twenty two whereby if you meet the stereotype,
you are treated differently and you are expected to hide way.
But if you don't well, then you must not be
(06:03):
unwell enough. You must be lying about what you're experiencing.
It also, I think, really lets people continue to believe that,
you know, well, poor mental health it's not that widespread.
People are just making a big deal out of it
because a lot of the people they do encounter don't
match their preconceived notions. You know, their colleagues, their roommates,
(06:26):
their family friends who they come across every couple of months.
They might be suffering with extreme anxiety, depression, bipolar, OCD,
any number of mood disorders or personality disorders. But because
they don't look like the stereotype, they're easily ignored as
being part of that community. So it really does hurt
(06:48):
everyone in multiple ways the way that any kind of
stereotype will. Like, you cannot siphon down and generalize the
entire experience of in viduals experiencing mental ill health, and
you most certainly cannot put them into one of two
buckets either you are bad or sad. Like I said, So,
(07:10):
this really brings me to how we have been taught
to see depression specifically. Now, let me begin by saying
that in order to be diagnosed with depression, you do
need to meet certain criteria in the DSM, that's the
Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders. You know, if
you go to a doctor, a psychiatrist, a psychologist, they
(07:32):
are going to look for certain things and there are
also and many different, like quite a few different types
of depression. I think sometimes we say, oh, someone's depressed,
and we just think of this general, generic, run of
the mill depression. But you can have major depressive disorder,
persistent depressive disorder, seasonal effective disorder, postpartum depression. Depression is
(07:55):
also part of bipolar. It's all distressing, like all of
them cause a lot of impairment in some form, but
mainly what we are looking for. What a psychiatrist or
a psychologist or a doctor, any number of professionals are
looking for, is a depressive episode. So they want to
know that at some point you have experienced a prolonged
(08:19):
period normally for more than two weeks, of having a
depressed mood, having diminished interest or pleasure in your hobbies
and activities, seeing a change in your weight, in your appetite, insomnia,
modus skills may have declined, diminished ability to think or concentrate.
(08:40):
You might feel very worthless, very tired. And also you
have these rearcurrent thoughts of death, not just a fear
of dying, although that it's part of it, but also
a suicidal ideation, a plan, or you have previously attempted
another thing they are looking for if you want to
(09:02):
be diagnosed with depression or a major depressive disorder, is
that you don't have any manic or hypermanic symptoms. So
basically that means that your depressive symptoms aren't counterbalanced by
a period afterwards of mania, so elevated mood, increased energy, activity, impulsivity,
feelings of grandiosity, that kind of thing. So they want
(09:23):
to rule out that you don't have bipolar disorder or
some other kind of mood disorder. Now that is a
very general and very general understanding of depression. It's definitely
not everything you need to know. But there's one other
component here, and that is when a professional is looking
at the list of criteria, you don't have to meet
them all. So I gave you like a list of
(09:45):
maybe nine, You only have to have between two to
five to diagnose you with a depressive episode, either a
minor or a major depressive episode. So that means that
there are almost and I did I'm here, I went
back to my economics roots. There are almost six hundred
(10:05):
and twenty seven different combinations of symptoms that you could
have to be diagnosed with depression. So this idea that
depression looks one way. Yes, we have a big list
of symptoms, but in order to be diagnosed, you only
need to have maybe three or four or five. So
if we do the combination of them again, six hundred
(10:27):
and twenty seven different combinations of symptoms, you could get
ten people in a room who all have depression, and
they still might not look the same. Some of them
may have lots of energy, insomnia, a depressed mood, but
you know, they're still interested in exercising, they still feel
good about themselves, they still eat normally. Then you could
have someone who predominantly feels quite worthless and is consistently
(10:50):
thinking about death, but they are still able to concentrate,
and they wouldn't classify themselves as being depressed. If you
kind of get where I'm coming from, Like, there is
just so many inns of this, And with that in mind,
it's not just that we have all these combinations, It's
that each person's way of expressing a singular symptom is
also going to be different. So let's talk about being
(11:14):
one that people pull out as markedly diminished interest or
pleasure in most or all activities. That is going to
look really different for different people. For one person, they
may no longer find joy in their favorite hobbies like
painting or playing music. For another, it could be that
they still enjoy their hobbies, but they are withdrawing from
social gatherings. For someone else, it's that they can't find
(11:36):
motivation to do basic things like cooking or showering, but
they still find time to be social. So again, each symptom,
there will be individual differences. This is why, this is
my argument for why we cannot be led to believe
that depression is going to look one certain way on
everyone all the time. The notion of depression as extradre
(12:00):
sadness or crying all the time, isolation, staying in bed,
a crisis, and inability to function. It does not explain
everybody's experience. And you know what, there is no shame
in your depression looking that way. In fact, for me,
at times it has looked that way. I talked about
that in my episode on my mental breakdown last year.
You know, there was a period where my depression presented
(12:22):
in a very stereotypical way. But it cannot be the
only narrative being told by society. That limited perspective can
be harmful because it overlooks the many hidden or subtle
ways that depression can show up, like irritability, like perfectionism, overworking,
physical symptoms that people might confuse with physical ill health,
(12:43):
or excessive socializing, all of these coping mechanisms that aren't
typically thought of. So this kind of brings me to
what we're talking about today, high functioning depression. Sorry it's
taken me so long to get here, but I promise
that explanation was worth it. Functioning depression it's not a
medical diagnosis, but it is a form of depression that
(13:04):
we can recognize where from the outside, someone looks very capable, successful,
perfectly happy. They look like they're doing well, but below
the surface, they are really struggling and they're experiencing a
lot of personal or private impairment. It is the kind
of depression or depressive episode that doesn't meet the stereotype,
(13:25):
and because of that, people sometimes feel like their experience
is less valid. Maybe they don't deserve the same level
of help as others. Maybe they have been misdiagnosed. But
none of this is true. It's just that the reality
of their depression is different to what we've been told.
(13:45):
Now I'm gonna say this. I do think that the
term high functioning depression it's not the best choice of words.
I don't love it all that much. It's kind of
the same reason why I guess people don't like high
functioning autism. It's obviously not an official diagnosis, and it
(14:05):
almost has the effect of ranking individuals on like some
merit base like are you worthy and high functioning or
are you low functioning and not worthy? Like? There is
this weird hierarchy to it. It's not inclusive, and it
can sometimes be quite misleading. You know, high functioning doesn't
mean someone doesn't need support. Here are some other reasons
(14:26):
why people are trying to maybe steer us away from
the term high functioning depression. It can really minimize the struggle.
Of course, people with high functioning depression experience just as
much emotional pain, self doubt, and exhaustion, even if from
the outside they're great at masking it. It does. You know,
that term does really reinforce a very toxic productivity mindset
(14:50):
kind of suggests that as long as you are productive,
your mental health isn't a problem and you don't need
help for it. It also definitely create it's a barrier
to diagnoses and treatment, and you know what, depression, whether
it's high functioning or low functioning, which that's the part
of it that I hate, low functioning like you still
(15:12):
you still are struggling, and it exists on a spectrum
like everything else does. So I actually typically call it
something else in my own life. In my day to
day life, I refer to high functioning depression as masked
depression or disguised depression, because I just think that that's
a better term for it. So what does masked depression
(15:37):
or disguised depression look like? How does that compare to
what we've been told to think about it. I'm going
to use my own experience as an example here. I
think from the outside sometimes I have made the mistake
of trying too hard to pretend that everything is perfect
(15:57):
in my life, either online or with my family and friends,
even with my partner, and it's meant that I will
truly be in the trenches. I will be thinking terrible
dark thoughts, struggling with zero motivation, wanting to sleep fifteen
hours a day. And if someone was like, hey, how
are you even like my partner, even like my friends,
and be like, oh, how are you going? I can
(16:19):
be quite dismissive of that question and be like I'm fine,
Like I'm fine, I'm good, yeap, super super good. I
think master depression is wanting to keep up the appearance
that your life is okay, either consciously or unconsciously. Perhaps
unconsciously because you know admitting it to other people, allowing
(16:40):
the symptoms to be visible would mean that you would
have to acknowledge it. I think people with master depression
often overwork themselves. They often have a lot on their plate.
They often surround themselves with a lot of other high achievers.
They put a lot of responsibilities on their plate, they
don't take breaks, They push themselves to a point of burnout,
(17:05):
and then they also go through a lot more periods
of withdrawal. So you just don't see them for a while.
You know, you can't reach them, you can't access them,
all in an effort from them to keep what they're
going through quite private. You know, master depression comes with
a lot of unconscious pretenses, probably because we have internalized
(17:28):
the stigma surrounding looking depressed and we don't want to
be lumped into the sad box, but also because it's
meant for me at least that a lot of my
symptoms impacted things that people normally don't see, so it's
easier to conceal. So that's the part of it that's
not necessarily conscious. It just kind of happens, you know.
(17:49):
It would be hard to know how tired I am
if you only met me for two hours or we
only had dinner once a week, because my fatigue is
quite a private symptom. The same with like the spiraling
negative thought patterns, the thoughts of death, the existential questions.
Those are hard to see because they're not outward facing,
(18:09):
because you can't climb into my brain and look around
and be like ugh, yuck, like this is not good,
Like someone needs to clean this up, this is not healthy.
Like you can't do that. You know, you can't come
into my house and see what a message is unless
I invited you. So I think for people with high
functioning depression, yes there is a sense of like they
really feel the need to conceal it, But it may
(18:30):
also be that their depression shows up in a much
more private manner just by the nature of what symptoms
are occurring. People with mass depression, I also think, involve
themselves in a lot of very private coping as well,
so coping mechanisms that aren't necessarily visible, emotional eating, relying
on alcohol, drinking whole bottle of wine by themselves at home,
(18:51):
social media, or again work to numb themselves. And that
numbness is a huge component of this, and I think
it's something that once we can step into and once
we can blunt our emotions numb ourselves to the world,
it means that we can carry ourselves through truly anything
because we don't have to feel our feelings. Basically we
(19:14):
can switch on ordered pilot and still do all the
things that need to be done in order to be
accepted and be seen as quite functioning. But also because
of that, we're not really investing in anything deeply. So
you know, you may work really really hard on some
big project, you get amazing feedback, you have amazing results,
and you still feel empty or something great has happened
(19:37):
in your life because you've detached from the bad stuff
as well, and you've numbed yourself to your experiences, it
just feels like nothing. Falling in love, for example, you know,
you could be dating someone and you're like, Wow, this
person is incredible. How come I can't commit fully emotionally
to this experience, not even to this person, but just
to the niceness of falling in love. Someone actually explained
(20:01):
this really, really well, and it was a listener who
DMed me with a question, and part of her question
or her message to me said, it's like I'm looking
down into my own life with no emotions, like I'm
watching it from above. And that is exactly the perfect description,
Like it always reminds me. I don't know if you've
(20:22):
seen the Amy Winehouse documentary. Amy Winehouse, of course, had
depression herself, amongst a litany of other really difficult things.
And there's a scene in the documentary which I love.
I love that documentary. But she wins a Grammy and
they're filming her and she looks so excited and stunned
(20:44):
and everyone who loves her is there and it should
be like the highlight of her life. And then her
friend pulls her aside, or she pulls her friend aside.
Something happens and her friend is like, oh my god,
this is so exciting, and she's just like, I feel nothing,
Like I just feel absolutely nothing. This should be the
best day of my life, and I feel nothing. And
(21:05):
I think that a big part of that is probably
an episode of mass depression where she felt like in
the moment she needed to be on and be okay,
but the moment there was a trusted person there, it
was like the mask slipped. So this is what it
looks like. Maybe you can see yourself in these descriptions.
You can see yourself in the overachiever, the over worker,
(21:29):
in the emotional numbness, in the hitting coping mechanisms. I
want to talk about why it occurs, you know, besides stigma,
besides some of the things we've talked about, what are
the contributing factors to mass depression. Well, we are going
to take a short break, quick decompress for a second.
(21:49):
But when we return, we will talk origins and we
will of course also talk about how to cope. Stay
with us, okay, So there are some main explanations for
while you may find yourself masking your depression or identifying
(22:11):
as quote unquote high functioning. Firstly, a big, big part
of it comes down to not just how, but where
you were raised. You might have come from a family
or culture that teaches people not to talk about mental illness,
in which case a form of mass depression, master anxiety,
(22:33):
masked anything is much more likely. Something really interesting I've
noticed is the correlation between countries that report low mental
illness rates and the rate of stigma. You know, it's
most likely that if we went into every single country
and we did proper examinations and diagnoses, about a third
(22:54):
of people across their lifetime would have mental ill health.
The kind of accepted rate that people suggest is most
likely if people actually got diagnosed. So when a country
or a government is saying, oh, you know, well, mental
ill health, the rate of that in our country is
one or two percent, I always look at that and
I'm like, that means that the rate of masking and
(23:17):
high functioning or disguised depression, anxiety, or city bipolar, whatever
it is, is so much higher. And it also means
A there is probably a lot of stigma and instances
that are ignored. B They probably don't have the infrastructure
to even measure mental ill health rates or see the
true you know, the true problem is that it's being
deliberately hidden and they don't want to acknowledge it. It's
(23:39):
probably a combination of all three. So, as a result,
if you are living in a country where they're like, ah,
our rate of depression is zero point one percent or
zero point five percent, The chances of mass depression in
a community like that is going to be a lot higher.
You may have also developed mass depression if you think
(23:59):
you'll feel better by powering through it on your own. Now,
where does that come from? I'm sure a lot of
you are like screaming into your friends. Like childhood, it
comes from childhood, and it does. It comes from being
taught that self sufficiency was the way, and your self
sufficiency and independence was rewarded, which is an important thing
for a child's development, but it was rewarded to an
(24:20):
extent that like, you were discouraged from showing vulnerability or
asking for help, so when you really did need assistance,
your parents were like, we're not going to get involved
in that. That can really lead to a sense of hyperindependence,
I e. If I can't manage this alone, if I
can't do this alone, I'm weak. And this kind of
messaging can cause us to minimize our experiences and think,
(24:42):
you know, I don't have it as bad as that
person does, as a way of denial and avoidance. I
also think master depression is more likely if you are
trying to avoid any impact of your depression on your job,
on your relationships, on your life, and you are hoping
that if you just ignore it for long enough, it
(25:03):
will lift, like this is just a time thing. I
think this is basically a fear of losing momentum, a
fear of losing progress, which is very common in a
success obsessed society. It's also a fear of losing control.
You know, something I've heard from a lot of people
and even some listeners is this fear that if you
(25:25):
let yourself acknowledge and feel depressed, or admit it to yourself,
or lean in to the terrible feelings, you are going
to lose touch with your reality and you're going to
lose touch with your sanity. Basically, we have this fear
that if we don't mask our depression to the world
and therefore to ourselves, we are going to go quote
(25:45):
unquote crazy. The thing is, I get this fear. It
really rarely happens. In fact, you are actually more likely
to experience severe symptoms, but again mostly irreversible symptoms if
you keep suppressing and avoiding what you're going through, because
the emotional toll is going to become greater and more strenuous.
(26:08):
But I promise you that if you acknowledge it, and
you look at it in the eyes and you get help,
you're not going to lose your sanity. You're not going
to lose your mind. And this idea and this fear,
I understand it. We all want to feel calm and
stable in our lives. But really it does just come
back to stigma, and it comes back to that age
old story we've been told, back to the times when
(26:31):
most mental illnesses were just labeled hysteria and you were
put in an asylum, that this experience is terrible and
it's going to ruin your life, and it's going to
make you different, and it's just going to cause you harm.
Like that's what we have been led to believe. It's
going to make you crazy. That's not true. Let me
say this, There are so many more treatments, more pathways,
(26:53):
more options for people nowadays. There is nothing as well
that you will have to go through alone. This will
not be the first time that a doctor or a
psychologist has seen something similar to your case. This is
not going to be the first time someone has had
to go through what you're going through. And even if
the worst, worst worst case scenario happens, which it won't,
(27:16):
but you find yourself losing your sanity, which you won't,
You're still going to find a way to come back
to yourself. I promise you that, and getting help sooner,
accessing your emotions sooner will only ever help that, it
will never make that worse. But I do think that's
a big component of sometimes unconsciously masking out depression. We
(27:41):
don't want to acknowledge that it could get worse, but
by doing that, we allow it to get worse. Sometimes, though,
master depression actually just comes from trauma and it's just
expressed that way without any kind of conscious decision to
conceal it. So there is an amazing research paper that
was published last year, last year, maybe even this year.
(28:05):
It was published very recently. It's titled Understanding High Functioning
Depression in Adults, and in it they conducted one hundred
and twenty interviews with individuals between eighteen and seventy five
who had been identified as having mass depression. They obviously
call it high functioning depression, twenty of whom out of
the one hundred and twenty, had extreme high functioning depression
(28:27):
to the point where you know, someone actually had recommended
them to the study. They didn't even believe that they
had a problem, but it was quite obvious that they did.
They found a very very very strong correlation between mass
or high functioning depression and trauma. In particular, a lot
of these individuals had experienced a lot of compounding minor traumas,
(28:50):
but also a lot of big trauma as well, such
that you know, especially if it had occurred at an
early age, maybe their brains had begun to process their
emotions differently and detach very very early on from big
feelings to protect themselves emotionally. They also found that people
with high functioning depression, as they called it, were more
(29:12):
likely to experience something called an donia. This is a
lack of pleasure in everyday activities and enjoys, and they
suggested that the higher rates of anadonia in people with
high functioning depression might actually be contributing to them being
quite overachievers or pushing themselves because their kind of baseline
(29:35):
for experiencing pleasure is so much higher, so more needs
to occur, more needs to happen, They need to achieve
more success in order to feel the level of pride
and enjoyment and pleasure that you know someone else would
feel from just getting a good job from their boss. Essentially,
they need a bigger win. They need to strive and
(29:58):
feel much more important. They need a much higher level
of success to reach that pleasure threshold that you know
someone else would reach quite easily. That's the big takeaway.
And odonia and high functioning depression are linked, but also
trauma and high functioning depression. So those are a few
explanations for why it is that you may be experiencing
(30:21):
this type of depression, why it is more common in
certain cultures, certain communities, in people who have been raised
a certain way. Now, I want to talk about what
we're going to do about it. We have this experience,
we're living this experience. What do we do. I want
to start out by just firstly having a little heart
(30:42):
to heart here, you know, between you and me, and acknowledging, Okay,
this is something you are experiencing and you're going through
and which you have to manage day in and day out,
regardless of whether other people are seeing it or not.
I think I know the kind of person you probably are,
and I know that you're probably putting on such a
(31:03):
brave face, and I know how hard you're trying, and
I know you have to give one hundred and fifty
percent where everyone else might only have to give fifty,
and I know you must be so tired. I know
how hard it is. I also know you probably go
back and forth over whether you deserve to have the
label and receive support. You probably go back and forth
(31:26):
over whether this is even real, because you're trying to
perhaps convince yourself it's not. And I know you're trying
so hard. I know you are trying to keep up appearances.
Just want to validate that experience for you, because it's
so freaking hard and tough, and it's exhausting, it's frustrating,
(31:47):
but it also doesn't have to continue to be invisible.
I think once we acknowledge, okay, just because my depression
is high functioning doesn't mean it doesn't exist, that's the
first step. I think the next step after that is
being prepared to talk to others about this. Literally, you
could just send them this episode if you want to,
(32:08):
and just say, hey, you know all those things I've
been struggling with, I think it's this. This explains it well.
You can also just start being honest with your family,
your closest friends, your partner when they ask you how
are you? How are you going? What would it feel
like to just finally say, you know what, not good
and I'm hurting and this is hard and can you
(32:31):
please help me? What would that feel like? Something that
completely changed how I think about asking for help was
someone said to me, once your loved ones actually want
the opportunity to love you. You are giving them the
gift of being able to show you how much they care.
(32:51):
Like that's an honor to them, That's a gift, that's
an opportunity. And I thought about the people in my
life who I love and how I love being given
the opportunity to show them that I would do anything
for them, Like that's actually a real privilege to have
that trust, and it's a gift. You know, invite people
into your hard moments, keep them in the loop with
(33:14):
your hard days. When they offer to help you, just
try out saying yes. See how it feels. Think about
all the times that you've said yes for others. You know,
you've paid your dues, you do so much for other people,
it's okay to accept some help back. In fact, I
think you might really deserve it. Actually, why did I
even say I think I know you really deserve it.
(33:36):
You've spent so long proving that you don't, that you
can do it yourself. We know that now, like we
know that you are capable. We know that if no
one helped you, you would be fine. But is that
really the way that you want to be? Is that
the way you want to live? Is that the only option?
You know, it's a strange thing to rewire your mind
to accept help and to let people in after so
(34:00):
many years of trying to prove to yourself that you
didn't need to do that. But it is so liberating
to just have someone see you for what you're really
experiencing and to want to love you and help you.
And it is like anything else, with practice, it gets easier,
you get better at it, It becomes more second nature
(34:24):
to you. You know sometimes, and we do need to
acknowledge this. We aren't always going to be met with acceptance,
and that's when the real battle begins. Right, you have
opened up. It's taken you so much to kind of
pull back the mask, and you're shut down. I want
to say, if that is the case, and you're thinking,
you know, it would have been better if I just
(34:45):
kept this inside, and you know, if I just made
everyone else comfortable and didn't bother them. This is where
I really want you to pause. You cannot spend your
entire life trying to make everyone else's life easier and
more comfortable, especially when it makes it harder for you.
You just simply cannot. You know, the stigma they are
(35:06):
feeling is an issue for them, and it doesn't change
your experience. Sometimes I also find these people who are
so readily quick to deny your experience and to say, well,
you're not depressed, you're fine, you know you're okay. I
often think these are the people who are lying to
themselves as well, because they're looking at you and they're saying, well,
(35:29):
if that person isn't fine, what about all these things
I've been trying to hide? What about all these secret
parts of me that I have suppressed for so long?
As well? I think often our openness challenges people to
recognize what their closed offness has cost them. In these instances, though,
I think it's not worth waiting for someone to change
(35:50):
their mind. That might sound brutal, It's not worth waiting
to convince someone of your existence, of your reality, and
how you're experiencing the world. Please, this very vulnerable period,
focus on those who bring you up with total acceptance.
Focus on the people for whom if you said I'm
having a really bad day, they'd say I'm coming over,
or they'd say I see you, I feel you, I'm sorry.
(36:13):
I also want you to challenge yourself to prioritize rest
without guilt, because chances are you're overfunctioning, and your acts
of trying to compensate for how you feel through success
and overworking are probably taking even more of a mental toll.
(36:34):
So I need something from you. I need you to
schedule a day or a weekend of nothing. I need
you to make that a practice. You know, I'm sure
if I set any other kind of goal for you, you
would meet it really, really quickly. Your goal here is
to rest, it's to not be productive. I need you
to put effort into this. I need you to be
(36:54):
switching off by eight pm at the latest from work,
from your responsibilities, from your phone. I need you to
take your sick leave. Something I always say to people
is that sickly you have earned that. That is part
of your wage, That is part of your salary, like
sick leave is deducted from your total salary that they
(37:17):
expected to pay you and put into a separate account. Basically,
that's how I see it. You still have access and
rights to that money, So you need to take your
sick leave. You need to slow down for just a second.
You know, your worth and personality does not only come
from how productive you can be or efficient. Like we
know you can be productive. I know you can be productive.
(37:38):
I know you're a high achiever. Rest is an essential
part in keeping you well as well and in keeping
you alive, and if it helps you in any way,
it's also an important part in keeping you productive, if
we really want to go that far. In fact, if
if you were focused on success and that's something that's
really important to you, which I'm sure it is. People
(38:01):
who allow themselves rest and who give themselves downtime only
come back better than ever. Let's give some examples here,
Simone Biles, Serena Williams Adele. You know she took a
five year break from her singing career and came back
with one of her best albums ever. Now, no one
is going to look at those women and say God
(38:22):
like she really hasn't done much with her time, like
she's such a failure because she took time for herself
and she rested no like these women are like at
the top of their game. These women and people in general,
there are so many more examples. They restored their bodies,
they restored their minds, and they came back better and
stronger than ever. And that's what I need from you.
(38:45):
We need more examples of this in the age we're in,
you know, we need to get rid of this hustle
mentality which serves no one, and focus on how you
are going to last the distance, how you are going
to ease up on yourself, how you are going to
take care of yourself and be present. There is no
(39:05):
point working extremely hard for something if by the time
you get there, you are ready to collapse and you
cannot even appreciate it. Following up from that in terms
of advice so people with high functioning depression, I also
saw an amazing piece of advice from a psychiatrist in
a recent School of Psychology article that spoke about how
(39:25):
people with master depression actually really benefit from breaking out
of their routine and not just prioritizing rest, of course,
but also going on these microadventures, and this researcher was
looking at the initiation and addition of novelty into the
lives of people with depression and how that really improved
(39:48):
their well being. So going on these little adventures, not
big things, not solo traveling, not large scale Europe holidays
or Asia holidays or whatever, but just small, everyday things
was really really amazing for their well being and really
broke up the monotonous nature of their lives. And what
she was saying in this article is that people with
(40:09):
master depression, they often find a lot of solace in
their routine because it allows them to further slip into
autopilot mode, but it also becomes really restrictive and secretly
quite exhausting. So allowing yourself planned time to go explore
is so important. Like go to a go strawberry picking.
I did that this weekend. Amazing, it was so much fun.
(40:31):
It costs like ten dollars. Like go strawberry picking, go
on a weekend hike, go walk some foster dogs, Like
I have a foster dog right now called Talu, and
like she has changed my life in terms of getting
out of the house, exploring my neighborhood, meeting new people,
have a gallery day, have a picnic, just like drive
(40:52):
the however long it takes to get to the beach,
I guess I live in Australia, so it's not that long.
But you know, go to a beautiful body of water
and submerge yourself in it, explore your city. I really
think that micro adventures are so fantastic because novelty for
depression in general is fantastic. Depression by nature is quite limiting,
(41:16):
and it keeps things very small and less vibrant and restrictive.
So to counteract that, you need to give your mind
opportunities to see that things are quite expansive and quite wide,
and that there is beauty outside of your routine and
your desire to appear okay, like you have to put
(41:36):
yourself into these new environments, whattch yourself, grow what your
self experience life and joy and beauty, and see how
you come back from those days and just feel so enriched.
If you want, you know more general tips for managing depression,
not specifically master depression. I do have an entire episode
called Let's Talk about Depression, very aptly titled that I
(42:00):
think would be super super useful, and I would direct
you to go listen to that because it's just there's
so much more information in there. But for now we
are actually going to take another short break, and when
we return, we have everyone's favorite segment, our listener questions,
including some questions from you all on how to take
care of a partner with master depression, high functioning burnout,
(42:23):
how it shows up in relationships, and how to get
yourself to act when you know what you should be doing.
So all of that and more very very shortly. So
we've been trialing out this new section of the podcast
where we invite listeners to send in specific questions. On
(42:44):
Instagram you can follow me at that Psychology podcast, and
I've been loving it. I think you guys have been
enjoying it as well, you know. I think it allows
people to really ask the questions that they're interested in
and ask more niche questions. Obviously, the podcast episodes we
do try and go into detail and in depth, but
(43:04):
it is quite general. If you have specific questions based
on what you're going through, or what you're seeing in
your community, or just some unique piece of research like
I love to be able to answer that in the show.
Rather than waiting till afterwards to get your feedback. But
of course this is still in the early days, so
if you like it, if you don't like it, please
(43:24):
let me know in the comments below. If you know
everyone says Okay, we don't like the listener questions, we're
done with those. We will of course stop. But I'm
hoping that you are enjoying it, So the only way
to know is if you tell me. So, I'd love
to hear what you think about this segment. Without further ado,
let's talk about the questions that we got this week,
because they were so fantastic and they also followed some
(43:48):
really amazing themes. So the first question I chose came
from a listener asking my boyfriend of three years confided
in me that he has depression, and I've definitely seen
signs over the years, but he is very secretive about
it and keeps a brave face. He's also quite successful
and he works in finance, and he has a lot
(44:09):
of friends and plays futsal and sport. But when he's struggling,
he withdraws even from me. How do I help him?
Let me firstly acknowledge that being the partner of someone
with master depression can be very emotionally difficult and distressing,
not because there's anything wrong with that person, but because
I know that if you could, you would do anything
(44:31):
to take that pain away. I know that I know
that you want to help them in every fiber of
your being, and you also just want to understand what
they're experiencing, like you would fight any battle if you
knew what was going on. But for people with mass depression,
it's very hard to let others in, not because you
know they don't like you, they don't love you, not
(44:52):
because they don't want to, but because they're so used
to taking care of themselves and keeping it very very private.
And I know on the outside it looks like they're
shutting you out and they don't trust you. I promise
that's not the case. In fact, I think they just
don't want you to take on any of the pain,
like they're trying not to burden you as well. The
(45:13):
biggest recommendation I would have as someone who is the
partner in my situation is to just do things without
having them ask you to do them. That will make
their life easier. So don't ask do you want me
to do your laundry for you. Don't ask do you
want me to cook tonight? Do you want me to
organize that thing you've been putting off. Don't give them
(45:35):
the option to say no, because they will always say
no because they don't want to bother you. Just do
it for them. You know they're not going to ask
for help, but they secretly do kind of want it
and need it. Now. It doesn't mean that you're fixing
things with them. It doesn't need that you need to
become their caretaker. Just small things that you can see
are really like causing them stress. They're not going like,
(45:59):
they're not going to ask you to do it for them.
Just take the initiative and step in where you feel capable.
I'd also really encourage you to do fun things with
your partner, even if sometimes they don't want to do them.
You know they'll be happy when they finally, like when
they're there, even if they feel exhausted in the moment.
(46:21):
Plan those microadventures for them. Ask them on a date,
you know, surprise them with the picnic or something fun.
And my boyfriend does this for me and it's so
helpful in making me feel excited by my life because
you know, it's a surprise. I don't always have the
mental energy to plan these things myself, and then I
just get to do it with my favorite person in
(46:42):
the world, and it's so incredible. My final tip as well,
and this one hopefully it grows without saying, but I
am going to say it anyways, Please take care of yourself.
You know you don't need to do everything for them.
You don't need to find a solution. You also don't
need to give every part of yourself to make sure
they're okay at the end of the day. And I
(47:03):
know people will disagree with me here, but you do
come first in every situation. You do come first. You
should be your own first priority. So it's okay to
take space. It's okay to also communicate your needs. Even
if it feels like their mental burden is bigger or
more worthwhile than yours. That's not the case. Like you
(47:24):
also have needs and have struggles of your own that
deserve to be appreciated. So here is question two for
today's episode. How can you tell the difference between long
term high functioning or master depression and just being burnt out?
This one is tricky. Honestly, I think they sometimes feel
(47:44):
the same at times, you could even have both at
the same time, because burnout isn't just physical, it's mental
and emotional as well, and it can actually lead to
a depressed state or trigger a depressive episode. I think
the biggest way to tell the difference is whether it's
exhaustion or a lack of interest that you're experiencing, and
whether the exhaustion is being met with consistent, persistent sadness.
(48:08):
So with burnout, it's often like you're just so tired
that you can't do anything, but you still kind of
want to and you still kind of want the opportunity.
But you know, with depression, it's like, yes, you're exhausted
because you're mentally drained, but you also have no desire
sometimes to even you have no desire to do the
(48:28):
things that you would normally want to do. You have
no desire to become more motivated, you have no desire
to you know, be social. But with burnout, you're like,
I really wish I could do those things, I just can't.
Here are some good questions as well to tell the difference.
So do you feel better after a break? If yes,
that's probably burnout. Has this lasted for months or years,
(48:51):
even with changes in a routine. In your routine, if yes,
that's probably master depression. Do you still care about things
even if you don't have energy if yes, burnout? Do
you feel indifferent to things that you once loved? If yes,
master depression. I also think you know taking care of
(49:12):
yourself will be similar for both of these things, so
you might find that just acting on one may eliminate
the other or may help, So you don't always need
to know whether it's burnout or depression immediately. The main
things of getting rest, of pulling back from things that
are stressing you out or additional responsibilities, the main objective
(49:36):
of offloading tasks and asking for help and going easy
from your easy on yourself, Like, that's going to be
the same regardless of what situation you're in, So yeah,
approach that way. Okay, Our final question for the day.
I know I have high functioning depression, and I know
what I need to do to feel better and get
to a better place, but I can't bring myself to
(49:57):
do it. How do I motivate myself when all my
energy is going to just trying to stay afloat? Firstly,
I'm so sorry you're feeling this way. I know what
must be so frustrating for you when you push yourself
so hard in every other area of your life, and
it can feel very hopeless when it comes to this
very big hurdle. The best thing I can recommend you
(50:19):
do that's worked for me is to just pick one
thing at a time to improve. If you are an overachiever,
we tend to put everything on the list, right you know,
we acknowledge. Okay, I have a depression, I'm feeling terrible.
I need to act on this. And if I have
to act, I have to do a million things right
now to change my life, to change my attitude, to
(50:39):
feel better, to get help. That can lead you to
feel very overwhelmed because your perfectionism kicks in. You know,
if I can't do all of it, I should do
none of it, and you get overwhelmed by where to
start because everything is suddenly equally important. So what we
need to focus on is just one change for every
two weeks. So the first two weeks I just want
(51:00):
you to focus on, Okay, I'm going to put all
my energy, the limited energy I have to seeing a
doctor who's going to help me find a therapist. In
that second. That second chapter, and then after that, my
next task is going to be reaching out, and I'm
going to give myself a couple of days, a couple
of weeks to do that so I don't feel overwhelmed.
Then when I'm ready, I'm gonna start implementing behavioral changes.
(51:24):
When I'm ready, I'm going to start booking appointments. Then
I'm going to start journaling once a week. But we
are going slow. We are making small incremental changes that
tend to snowball into much bigger results. So just seeing
your life as the next two weeks. What can you
do in the next two weeks that are going to
(51:45):
make you feel better in the moment. You don't have
to think about the long term. You don't have to
be obsessed with curing yourself or getting everything done. I
just want you to focus on one thing at a
time and just don't overwhelm yourself. We'll get there slowly
and surely. So I think this is all we have
time for today. I know it's been a long episode,
(52:07):
so thank you if you have made it this far.
You guys know I always love to drop a little
emoji hint for the loyal listeners amongst you who get
to this point. So today I want you to leave
an emoji of your favorite animal. I don't know why
I chose that. It just seems fun, it seems appropriate,
It seems a little bit lighthearted given how heavy this
(52:30):
episode was, So yes, drop your favorite animal as an
emoji below. Remember there are also resources listed in the description,
ways to access help, further, ways to educate yourself, whether
you are someone with master depression or someone helping a
loved one. And I just want to send you a
lot of love and healing. Like I know this is
(52:50):
very difficult. Whatever is drawn you to this episode today
and drawn you to listen this far, I'm sure it
can sometimes feel quite heavy. So I'm with you and
that pain and with you and that struggle. I've been there,
and I can say that we do get better and
life does feel amazing again. And if you're on mask
and if you let people in, it just gets so
(53:13):
much lighter. So I really, I really want that for you.
But until next time, my lovely lovely listeners, make sure
you are following me on Instagram at that Psychology podcast.
Make sure you pre order my book. It comes out
in less than a month, And I'd love to hear
your thoughts on it when you finally get a copy,
and until next time, stay safe, be kind, be gentle
with yourself, and we will talk very very soon,
Host
Jemma Sbeghen
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