November 9, 2021 • 46 mins
What is it like to be a woman in a male-dominated sport like football? Now imagine becoming the first woman to coach in the Super Bowl! Katie Sowers is the perfect example of what it looks like to never take no for an answer. Katie shares how as a coach, she sets out to challenge and inspire her teams instead of leading with an iron fist.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
The narrative that we tell ourselves really can shape our lives.
And the more that we can narrow down what's the
facts of what's going on and what's the actual narrative,
the more that we can change that narrative to build
our own confidence, and the more competence we have in ourselves,
the more positive that narrative becomes. This is Sweat the Details,
(00:26):
a collaboration with Under Armour and I Heart Radio, a
sports and training podcast made for women by women that
puts our success in challenges at the front and center.
I'm Monica Jones, I'm a fitness coach, boxer, business owner,
and you a athlete. And I'm Meg Bogs. I'm a powerlifter, author,
body positivity advocate and mother. Every episode, Monica and I
(00:46):
will talk to athletes, trainers, and experts and learn more
about how the body mind work together in training and competition. Today,
we're talking with Kansas City Chiefs coach Katie Sours. Katie
is the first woman to coach in the Super Bowl.
Katie didn't think coaching football was a career possibility because
she had never seen women in those roles, But her
drive to break barriers and her passion for the sport
(01:07):
led her to work with some of the best teams
in the country. Before becoming a coach, Katie played football
for the Women's Football Alliance and the US women's National
American football team, which won the International Federation of American
Football Women's World Championship in So awesome. I'm really excited
to learn about her coaching experience and how she is
(01:29):
paving the path for a new generation of women getting
into the sports industry as coaches and players. Katie is
an absolute baller, and I am so excited for everyone
to hear this conversation. When it comes to women in sports,
I just feel as if we're still so behind, not
only in the respect for what a woman's body can do,
(01:51):
what a team of women can do together, but also
how entertaining it truly is, if the marketing were to match,
if we would put the funding behind it, if we
had more women in these positions to set the example
for younger girls. I mean, I tried CrossFit for the
first time in and I saw a black woman leading
a class to see a woman they're doing it, and
(02:14):
a black woman, I was like, oh my gosh, I
have to try this out. Same with any other sport
that I've approached, it's from seeing another woman do it. Yeah,
it's that representation. You know, if you never see anybody
who looks like you doing the things that you love,
you just assume, Okay, well, that's not something that I'm
allowed to do. It's not something that I'll ever succeed at,
So you just give up on it. And you know,
women like Katie are stepping up and saying, no, that's
(02:36):
not that's not how we're going to do it anymore.
You know, it translates to anything. Like you said, you
saw a black woman leading, I've seen a plus sized
woman leading, and let me tell you, it changed the
game for me. It made me realize that there are
possibilities for someone like me. And you know what, there
may not be very many right now, but I'm gonna
do everything i can to make sure that other plus
sized women get that opportunity. So I'm just I'm so
(02:59):
pumped for this Converse station. Yes, And you know what's
wild is even when we get our foot in the door,
because of that woman, we unite. We have to stick
together and band together and it makes us stronger. I'm
totally moved by this conversation, and I'm very, very excited.
So what do you say, Meg? You ready to get
into Katie's interview? Let's get it. What's going on everyone today?
(03:23):
We have the incredible Katie Sours here with US Kansas
City chief coach and former offensive assistant coach for the
San Francisco forty Niners. And let me just say, we
are so excited for you to be here, Katie. Welcome
to what the details? How are you? Thank you for
having me. I'm doing well. How are you guys doing.
We're hanging in there. Yeah, we're good. We are honored
(03:44):
to have you. This is going to be a dope conversation. Yes,
we are. We're pumped. So I just want to start
from the beginning. Can you just walk us through your
journey into football. How did your passion for the game
begin and when did you start playing? Yeah? You know
when I was little. It was weird because my dad
never played football, my mom was never involved in football. Uh,
(04:05):
And I truly think it was when I watched the
movie The Little Giants, which is, uh, if you haven't
seen it, it's one of the best movies of all time.
And I remember watching Ice Box and seeing her play
football with the boys. And I was like, I can
be like Ice Box. I mean, every journal I have,
I'm talking about football. I I talked about going home
(04:28):
playing football, calling up all the neighbor boys that I
can find, uh and and seeing if they wanted to
come out and play. And so it wasn't your typical
young girl upbringing, if you want to tak stereotypes. But
that's really where it began. That is so cool. I mean,
I think a lot of us can recall a time
(04:51):
where we've watched a movie like that as young girls
and been like, hold on, she's kind of scrappy, and
I like that, and I really I kind of relate
to that. That's really so. Was it always your plan
to actually work in the football industry? Like what was
the moment when you decided to turn your passion into
a career. You know, when I was growing up, I
(05:11):
never envisioned myself coaching football. One of the reasons was
it I just never saw it as an opportunity. It
never even crossed my mind. I think that can translate
to so many things, whether it be a female being president,
or if you don't see it, you don't necessarily know
that you can strive for it. I knew I wanted
to coach UH, and so when I was out playing
(05:33):
with the boys like I always did, and I remember
the day that I felt like the boys were just
getting bigger than me, and I remember this hit that
hurts so bad, and I just realized that I can't
play with these guys anymore. And it never crossed my
mind to think about coaching football because the opportunity didn't
didn't feel like it truly existed. So I kind of
(05:57):
moved my passion to basketball, and you know, I I
thought I was going to be happy with that, and
it was actually a course of um, you know, what
some people might see as failures or some people might
see as mistakes that actually led me to where I
am today, and one of those being actually, you know,
I was an athletic director for the City of Kansas City.
(06:18):
I was just trying to figure out really what I
wanted to do with my life and wanted to continue
coaching UH. And at the time, I was playing women's
tackle football that I had found, you know, and that's
a whole another story in itself, but I still even
at that point, didn't realize that I could coach football,
you know, and make a living off of it. Until
(06:39):
I saw Becky Hamon coaching in the NBA. And after
that moment, I posted something on my Instagram. I said, NFL,
I'm coming for you, and I knew, without a doubt,
I was going to coach in the NFL. Oh my god,
that's amazing. So I mean it was something that kind
of had to evolve for you to realize that it
could be a possibility. Yeah, it was a out of
(07:00):
doors slamming in my face, to be honest. You know
one UM story that I like to tell just because
of UM. I think we all have that moment where
something feels like we're striving for and then the door closes,
and I think we often too much. We were trying
to get back into that door after it's closed, and
(07:20):
we missed so many opportunities that have opened up for us.
And you know, one of those was when I was
at ghosh In College, which is a small Menuonite college.
At the time, they didn't even have professors who were
could be openly gay, and I was gay. I wasn't
necessarily out because we weren't really supposed to be out.
(07:41):
And as I you know, graduated well I thought I
was going to graduate in four years, had to take
some extra credits, so I was done with my basketball eligibility,
and I decided, this is where I can start getting
my you know, my resume for being coaching basketball. So
I asked my coach if you know, I could be
a volunteer assistant, and he told me that because of
(08:04):
my lifestyle, I was no longer wanted around the team.
And so it was that moment that I, you know,
I thought my basketball coaching career had ended before it
even began. But what I realized was that moment led
me to playing women's tackle football and looking for more,
which then you know, continued to lead on my path. Wow,
(08:25):
it's just my blood. Just like broils. Sometimes we need
that no though, right, Like the no pushes us in
the right direction and it sucks, right, You're like, I'm
so sick of hearing no, and I'm sick of hearing
that who I am, to my pore is not what
is fitting for trying to volunteer my time and trying
to make a team better and trying to you know, contribute.
(08:48):
But look at us now, Yeah, I'm ready to send
a thank you. Not at some point and and thank
him for that. So I know that you, um, you
represented the US internationally as part of the women's national
techle football team. So could you tell us more about
this experience. How did you feel representing your country in
(09:09):
an international championship. Yeah, that was probably one of the
best experiences of my life. Not only had I never
even been outside of the country, you know, I was
a small town girl from Kansas, never been outside the country,
and here I am traveling to Finland with Team USA.
And there's a funny story behind me actually trying out
for Team USA. I remember actually telling my twin sister
(09:33):
I wasn't going to try out because I didn't think
I was going to make it. And I think a
lot of people can relate where it's like you'd rather,
um just pass up an opportunity than fail, and I was.
I was really at that point afraid to fail. And
she convinced me to try out and lo and behold,
I'd become a starter and actually one game become a
(09:53):
game m v P where I had five interceptions in
one game when we played Germany on July fourth as incredible.
But I remember thinking back because the national anthem was playing,
I was looking at all the helmets that matched. And
you know, in my journal entries I had I had
dreamed of wearing matching helmets, wearing matching jerseys, of being
(10:14):
on what I called a real football team. And I
was standing there just looking at all of these women
that were playing a sport that I dreamed of playing
when I was younger, and it was an incredible moment.
That's so inspiring. Rather pass up an opportunity than fail,
I think is so common, it's wild. So after being
(10:38):
a tackle football player, you shifted to coaching and did
you feel your relationship with the sport changed when you
went from being a player to a coach. I always
thought that my transition out of playing was going to
be difficult, but what I found was I was born
to be a teacher. I was born to be a coach.
I was I was. I just have this passion inside
(10:59):
of me and so it feels like I didn't even
miss a beat with that transition. Now that I have
the opportunity, you know, whether it be coaching my flag
football girls at Hanawa University, which is, you know, amazing
in itself, and that's something I'm so proud of um
or whether it be coaching NFL players. It's a passion
(11:19):
that I have to just make them better. And it
feels like I, in a way, I'm still playing myself
because I'm seeing myself in them. That's so true. I
had thought about it that, like that hat, You've broken
so many barriers for female leadership in a male dominated sport,
which is like incredible. What do you think has made
you so successful in navigating those spaces and you know,
(11:42):
rising as a woman coach in the NFL. I think
the thing that's really helped me within my career is
it seems simple, but is reflection. And and I when
I say that, I remember. So I keep journals of
everything throughout my life. Um, and I try to keep
it up to date as possible. But I'll go back
(12:02):
and I'll read those journal entries. And I have a
journal entry where I was laying in bed. This was,
you know, maybe when I was about twenty years old,
and it basically was a note to myself, and I
told myself, you know, here I am laying in bed.
I have no idea what my future looks like. I
feel lost, but I feel this sense of hope and
(12:23):
I feel this sense of something's coming. You know that
that is going to be worth it. And I told myself,
you know, I hope when you read this you're happy.
And if you haven't found happiness, go out and find it.
And so I think you know that by keeping journal entries,
by continuing to remind myself of how far I've come,
being able to look back on those, it's helped me
(12:45):
to have a better perspective on my life. Um, the
way I come into situations, the way I attack problems.
It's really changed me. And so that I think I
I hold that to be um a big factor in
a lot of my success. That's incredible. Yes, dear diary
is the story of my life. That is so awesome.
(13:08):
I mean, to have those entries to remind you of
where you were at that point, to be able to
speak to yourself in the future is I mean, it's
next level. It is such a game changer when it
comes to, you know, fighting for yourself, especially in a
place where there's not a lot of women, where there
just aren't that many women leading the way just yet.
(13:29):
To be that it means you've really got to have
those type of practices on luck, which is incredible, absolutely
so right now. You're currently volunteering as a coach for
the flag football team at Ottawa University. So can you
tell us more about your experience and passion for flag football. Yeah, so, um,
you know, this is another situation that just kind of
happened by a path that I didn't expect. And you know,
(13:52):
when things ended in San Francisco, I remember coming home
and I honestly I had no idea what was next.
And my twin sister had just at this head coaching
job for the Ottawa Braves, which happens to be the
same conference that my dad used to coach basketball and
back in the day. And my dad passed away about
a year and a half ago, and so you know,
(14:14):
her getting that head coaching job, um, soon after he
passed away. It was almost like he played a part
in that. And so I came home and it was
just supposed to be me going to visit practice and
talk to the girls, uh, And it ended me never
wanting to leave. Uh. And I saw these young women
(14:36):
who never thought they'd have a chance to play football
in college, and here they were on college scholarships for
the first time ever playing football. And to see their passion,
to see their drive. I had never been a part
of a team with that much love for the game,
and I knew that, you know, I was jealous in
(14:57):
a way of what they had. I wish I had
those opportunity these but I knew that we had to
do more and and in a way, it was a
time for me to use the platform, you know, the
lights that were shining on me, and actually turn them
over to them because they are game changers. They are
the first sever national champions in the sport of flag football.
(15:17):
And you know, I see flag football being an Olympic sport.
I see it being a game changer for women. I
love that so great. How was your coaching experience with
the women's flag football team? How has it been different
from coaching in the NFL. There's you know, there's a
lot of differences. UM. One of the main ones being,
(15:39):
you know, with the NFL, you're you're working with a
lot of players where they're getting paid to play. Um.
They that's their living, that's their way of life. UM.
With these young women, they don't pay I mean, they
don't get paid to play. They play purely for the love.
Most of them are spending about thirty thou all there's
(16:00):
a year to go to school, and that's you know,
with a scholarship. Um. You know, there's just not a
lot of opportunities for scholarships. And and so you see
them coming to small town Ottawa, Kansas, from places like
Las Vegas, from places like Florida, from all over the country,
and you just see them become a family. Winning that
(16:22):
National Championship that was hosted by the Falcons was probably
a better and more fulfilling moment for me than even
the Super Bowl. Why do you think that is? Because
I I felt like winning that National Championship was the
start of something amazing for women. And my time in
(16:44):
the NFL is great. It's a great platform, it's great
visibility for women. But I believe that women deserve a
field of their own, a league of their own, a
team of their own, and this is the start of that. Well,
you're paving the way for sure, I hope. So we
have a large gap to bridge. You know, I'm reading
the studies and just to understand the fact that when
(17:06):
you're playing in the NFL, we're making upwards of three
million dollars and we have women out here who love
their sport and want to play and pay to play
in their leagues. So to be able to see that
championship take you guys to this point is really inspiring
and I am loving that we're keeping this conversation going. Yeah,
(17:28):
I actually saw some facts. Can't quote me on this,
but I believe it's true that there's a backup quarterback
in the NFL that makes more per year than every
woman in the w n b A makes. I don't
doubt it. And so that reality in itself is um
it says everything we need to know. Yep. And and
a lot of people can say it's because of the
(17:51):
you know, people aren't interested in watching women in sports,
but the reality is look at the the USA women's
national soccer team. When people invest in getting to know
the players that they're trying to market, When you put
marketing money into those things, people invest in those those teams,
And if it's not put into women's teams, people won't
invest in them. Absolutely, And when you think about those
(18:13):
who really want to invest in follow up and watch
these women play, it's women. So can we find the
importance of us wanting to see each other perform in sport?
You absolutely well, Katie, how would you describe your leadership
and coaching style. You know, how's it different from traditional
coaching styles. You know, I would say I'm I'm very
(18:36):
player oriented when it comes to my coaching style. Um,
you know that you can think of authoritarian, and you
can think of all these different styles. I'm not going
to be the person that goes out and yells just
to yell. And so it's about, you know, what is
going to make these players the best player on and
off the field that they can be. Um, whether it
(18:58):
be you know, with my football women, we actually wrote
a letter. We had them write a letter to themselves
in five years, and in five years we're going to
send it to them. And things like that, I think
not only improve themselves as people, make them more reflective
of who they want to be, who they you know,
think that they're going to be in five years, but
(19:20):
also it makes them closer when they get on the
field and when they perform on the field, and and
we've seen that translate so much. Wow, that is incredible. Yeah,
I can only imagine your players opening up that letter
in five years and thinking of you, thinking of their teammates,
thinking that that moment, that's that's groundbreaking. That's so exciting. So, Katie,
(19:44):
how can we increase diversity in sports leadership positions? I
know it's a big one. Well, I think changing the
way in which we as a society operate is going
to be foundation changing the way we raise our children.
I think it's not something that we can just tell,
(20:05):
you know, the white straight males to do and all
automatically they do it. I think it's something that we
have ingrained in our society when we have, you know,
these aisles that we think are dedicated to girls, and
then we see these aisles that are dedicated to boys,
and we have this this view of how we treat
different types of people based on how they look, based
(20:27):
on their gender um and until we can change that viewpoint.
Like my niece, who I didn't realize we were actually
creating a bias in her when all she knew growing
up was girls playing football. She would come to our games,
my twin sister and I and it wasn't until she
was about four years old. We were driving down the
(20:48):
road and we were talking about the boys that we're
playing in in some park and we pointed them out
and she said, boys don't play football, and we had
to explain into her that boys and girls play football.
And and my niece, for those of you who don't
know her, is one of the most stereotypical girly girls
(21:10):
without any force from her family. She likes pink, she
loves to dance, she wants to do everything you know
that that you would stereotype a girl. But she believed
that only girls played football, even though she had no
interest in it, because what she was seeing, you know exactly.
That just shows yea, there's what we have a long
(21:32):
way to go. Yeah. I mean, my my daughter's three
and a half and she's not really into girly things.
She's very into dinosaurs and trucks, and she wants to
be throwing balls around and kicking balls around, and that's
just who she is. And I go into stores and stuff,
and I see the difference. Like I didn't really pay
attention to it until I became a mom, and now
I'm like, wow, it's very obvious having a daughter who's
(21:54):
not into those things. So yeah, yeah, I think there's
a lot of unconscious bias that goes on um in
this world. And and the only way to change is
at the ground level and changing our mindset and raise
our children so that they can appreciate diversity for what
it is and um and and they don't see past,
(22:16):
you know, their own biases. Absolutely, there's absolutely a mindfulness
to it. And also you know, a lot of these
biases aren't created with malintent. It's just kind of our
our default, right, and it's definitely it's always been, and
it's so important to have people even having conversations. We
can't really discount the importance of just an everyday, day
(22:40):
to day conversation. It doesn't always have to be a
huge gesture. Absolutely, So what you know, advice would you
give to women who are starting to play a male
dominated sport but are worried, you know about like what
we were talking about earlier, about the prejudices and the stereotypes.
What advice would you give those women? I think the
first thing I would give a guess this would apply
(23:00):
to anybody, is know the narrative that you're telling yourself,
know what the facts are, and have competence in yourself.
I think we often get in situations where we feel
like we're the underdog, and more often than not, if
we feel like that, we probably are. But more often
than that, I think we are telling ourselves a narrative
that could be different than what the narrative actually is,
(23:23):
because we're already coming and doubting ourselves. We find ourselves
if someone's quiet, or if someone is treating us different,
we think maybe we're not doing our job, maybe we're
not as good as you know they think we might be,
or that imposter syndrome. And the narrative that we tell
ourselves really can shape our lives. And the more that
(23:44):
we can narrow down what's the facts of what's going
on and what's the actual narrative, the more that we
can change that narrative to build our own confidence, and
the more competence we have in ourselves, the more positive
that narrative becomes, and the more we actually take the
facts and and take them for what they are. So
I would say, continue to build confidence. Stop worrying about
(24:07):
what other people are thinking about you, because when you're
spending your energy thinking about what other people are thinking
about you, you're wasting time you could be better in yourself.
So you know, I guess to make it short, it's
really gain confidence and continue just to build on what
you can improve on and forget the outside noise facts
(24:29):
that wow I mean, we can end it right there.
That was what I have to go and get into
my next session. So do you have any advice for
people who are not yet pro but when it grow
in their sport while juggling other responsibilities like studying or working. Yeah,
it's all about time management, but it's also about keeping
(24:51):
a healthy mindset. And I think we think that we
need to actually physically rest, which we do, but we
also need to emotionally rest. We need to be able
to take that time, find that time, whether it be
with family and not just going and being with family
and thinking about other things. Going with family and being present.
The more present you are in each moment, the more
(25:13):
that I found I've been able to juggle multiple things. Uh,
instead of thinking about what's next, think about what's now
and be the best person you can be in that
now moment um and it will make you more energized
for the next moment. And being your authentic self true
you know is a huge factor. I know you talked
(25:35):
about earlier that just horrible moment that you experienced, UM
when you came out or you were trying to come out. UM.
A lot of NFL players are just starting to come
out and as a member of the l g B
t q I A plus community, what do you think
this moment could mean, you know, for football specifically in
sports more broadly, I think you know, having a player
(25:57):
actually come out was was a game change injur It
forces a conversation of you know, the way that we talk,
the way that we treat each other, the things that
we might say that we don't even think about, Like
if the coach is inviting players in their family to
a team party and they're saying, your wives are invited,
that is no longer something that we should say. That's
(26:20):
not your partners, you're you know, your significant others. You
can't assume that every man on the team has a wife.
So it changes the game. With just the language we
use on a daily basis, HM, that's so true. Inclusive
language can make people feel comfortable, make people feel like
they're accepted, like they are part of something. And I
(26:42):
could see how that even that one little sentence could
probably trigger somebody who's still trying to decide if that's
a moment that they feel like they are comfortable doing
the language we use daily. There are people that are
analyzing whether someone is safe to be themselves or round
and you know, small comments like that can make the difference. Yes, absolutely,
(27:04):
And you know, even in such a masculine dominated or
masculine represented sports, sometimes it's just the default. It's not
necessarily an attempt to be uninclusive. But we could all
use that mindfulness. Yeah. Sometimes it just takes awareness. Yeah,
and it's being you know, if you're the person hearing that, um,
(27:26):
it's being understanding and seeking first to understand. And you know,
this idea of hatred will not here ignorance And I
continue to to say that, I believe it. So the
more that we we hear someone that might say something wrong,
hate is never going to cure that ignorance. The only
thing that will cure that is education. Communication. It can
(27:47):
be you know, using comedy, using um jokes to help
make that person feel like, you know, it's okay to
talk to me, it's okay to to try to be inclusive,
even if you're saying the wrong thing, as long as
we're talking, and it doesn't just become locker room talk,
because when it becomes locker room talk, you don't have
a chance to make a change. It's so true. Yes,
(28:11):
So taking that conversation outside the locker room and really
making an attempt to be mindful so powerful. Do you
have any advice, key or resources for women who want
to explore a career as football coaches like you? Yeah,
I think you yourself is going to be, first of all,
your biggest resource. I think we often get in the
(28:32):
mindset of we're going to be given the information we need,
We're gonna be handed everything. But that's not the case.
You have to make sure that what are you doing
to hold yourself accountable, to make sure that if and
when that opportunity comes up, because it could come up
at any time. You never know when you're meeting someone
that's going to change your life. But when that opportunity
(28:53):
comes up, are you going to be ready? Uh? And
also just putting yourself in opportunities that even if it's
not your dream job. Me coaching fifth grade girls basketball
led me to the NFL. It wasn't my dream job,
but I knew that I had to show up every
day as the best coach and it just so happened
that I ended up meeting someone that really put me
(29:13):
on my path to the NFL. So showing up regardless
of what it is, um being the best version of
yourself and holding yourself accountable to no more and do more. Yes,
if they showed up that day and you were halfway there,
are really not interested in the work you'd be doing,
it would make a huge difference in where you ended up. Absolutely, So, Katie,
(29:34):
what's next for you in your career? Any projects or
games are excited about that you'd like to share with
our listeners. Yeah, so right now for the year, I'm
I'm gonna be working with the women's flag football team
at Ottawa University. I was hired just for the year
as UH Director of Athletic Initiatives and Strategies UM for
(29:55):
really making Autawa University in small town Kansas a hub
for women's sports and women flag football. I'm going to
push to get Kansas to recognize flag football as a
high school varsity sport. I think there's so many women
out there that that can do that. And then um,
from there, you know, the NFL is still an opportunity
(30:16):
for me that, um, we'll see if that if if
it's the right choice. When that time comes, It's hard
for me to picture leaving my otto of braves, but
you know, well, we'll see what happens, and whatever path
is meant for me, that's the path I'll be on.
Exciting stuff. So we spoke about this earlier. But oftentimes
(30:38):
women's football players have to pay hundreds of dollars to
fund their teams and pay for their spot in the league.
Unlike the male players, you get millions of dollars a year,
female players don't get a salary, so they must find
other jobs to support themselves. Katie, do you have any
thoughts on this. How can we achieve a better work
model for female football players and what can we do
(30:58):
to make women's football more popular among football fans. Yeah,
that was one of the most frustrating things when I
was playing. I remember working. Um, I was coaching, and
I was athletic director, and I was trying to play
football and I was a volunteer general manager for our
team at the same time. Um, but here there are
these men making millions. So in order to change that,
(31:20):
first of all, as I said, the society as a
whole needs to view women in sports differently. But also, UM,
we need to continue to do what we're doing now
in building the foundation for women to be able to
play on teams at a younger level to raise the
game so they're not just starting out, and then we're
trying to sell this product of all these women who
(31:41):
are playing football for the first time. If you go
and watch these teams, these young girls who have been
playing flag football their entire lives, it's some of the
best football you will see. And when you get that product,
you can then develop them into professional athletes that the
game is exciting, that the game is all of of
you know, talented players, and that's what's going to really
(32:04):
move that game forward. Yes, start them young, creating opportunities
for young female athletes, and get them in high schools.
That's gotta you gotta get flag football because I know
I didn't play soccer in middle school because we didn't
have a soccer program and my small school in high school,
and so if people don't see it as an opportunity,
(32:24):
they're not going to pursue it um. So it has
to be an opportunity. The only time I remember flag
football was in like elementary and it was by far
my favorite thing that we ever did, and it made me,
which is the best. It just ended, you know, it's
like you get older and then it just goes away
and I was like, that was my favorite thing to do.
I'm pretty sure I hate during the mile, really hate
(32:47):
during the mile, but I was there for that flag.
Football Gosh under Armours with the Details will be back
after a short break. Welcome back to Swept the Details.
We're gonna shake it out just a little bit, all right.
So usually on the show, we'll take a segment and
(33:09):
lighten the mood and have some fun with our guests.
So Katie, as we play this game, it's gonna be
called first Things First, and we are going to ask
you some questions and you can kind of just rapid
fire them out about your experience in the game and
in any of your kind of preferences on game day.
All right, let's do that, all right. I'll kick us off.
(33:29):
Who was the first athlete that inspired you to pursue football?
Deon Sanders? Okay, shout out to Why is that? I
wore his jersey NonStop? It was when he was a
Cowboys player. You know, I was a huge Cowboys fan.
I even in elementary school, I acted like I was
Deon Sanders for one of my speeches that I gave Nice.
(33:51):
Oh my gosh, that's amazing. I had an emmet jersey
that I wore every night. All right, love us? Yes,
all right? Ready? What team was your first professional game against?
It was against the Washington football team, you know, not
at the time, different name, but that was the first
(34:12):
preseason game that I played as a coach professionally. Now,
if we're talking women's tackle football, it was against a
team in Fort Wayne, Indiana. Is there anything special about
those games that you remember that are just like I
could never forget that. Well, the Fort Wayne game, I remember,
you know, there was a starting linebacker who was going
(34:35):
off to the Army and I was late to the
team and I didn't have a spot. So I told
the coach I wanted to play linebacker, and he like
laughed at me, and I'm like, no, I'm I really
do And he said okay. And I ended up, you know,
being an All American linebacker that year, because yeah, I
was like, no, I'm doing this. I don't know any better,
you know, I'm gonna I don't know that I'm not
(34:56):
the right fit for that, But I ended up making
it work. That's awesome. What was your first win as
a professional football player. It was actually my first game
in Fort Wayne. Our team the Michigan Mayhem. We actually
ended up that first year going to the quote unquote
Super Bowl, which was in New Orleans. We ended up
(35:16):
losing to the St. Louis Slam in New Orleans. What
was your first win as an NFL coach? My first
win as an NFL coach did not come until our
game against Houston. We were oh and nine starting out
when I was a full time coach with the forty Niners,
and I remember us winning that first game. Actually I
(35:40):
think it was against Chicago actually, um, but we ended
up going six straight wins at the end the season.
So after starting oh nine and ending that season with
six straight wins, it was incredible. I don't hold that
as like a favorable memory because it was such a
crazy year. Um, and there are other wins that are
(36:00):
more important than that. But yeah, I guess that's it.
So the first isn't always in the most important Yeah. Yeah,
to me, it's just part of the journey in my opinion. Well,
you are the first in a lot of different ways
in leadership. What is the first thing you do in
the morning of a game day. In the morning of
a game day, UM, I typically get up and I
(36:22):
try to eat breakfast. But I'm typically nervous, uh, which
is crazy for people who think, well, you're not playing,
so how are you. The one routine that I always
have is I listened to two songs on on the
bus ride to the game that morning. I listened to
bless Us All from the Muffets Christmas Carol, which is
I Know It's weird, and then something inside so strong. Um,
(36:46):
those are two songs that remind me of my family,
that remind me of where I've come from. Um, bless
Us All was always what we'd play before my Grandma's
Sunday dinner every Sunday. Um, we'd all stand up, hold
hands as a family. And so just I look out
the window and play those songs. I love it. I
love that music is powerful, it is well. This was
(37:10):
an incredible conversation. Thank you, Katie. That was awesome. It
has been a pleasure to have you on. And because
you please let our listeners know where they can find you. Yeah,
you can find me on Instagram Kate sours five. That's
really I have a TikTok. I do not use it
very much. I don't even know what my name is
(37:31):
on there, but my twin sister is, I guess, you know,
kind of TikTok famous. I'm a little bit. I have
more followers than I should with my posts. I can't
imagine if you posted Oh no, she she has posted
everything for me. It's pretty much something with her because
I still don't know how to use it. But it's
fun to keep up with the young generation. You gotta
(37:52):
keep up with the gen's. That's how we reach them. Yep,
they're keeping us fresh and vibrant. Ye. Thank you Katie
so much. This was such a great conversation and hopefully
we'll get to chat again soon. Awesome, Thank you guys
for having me. Thank you again to Katie for such
(38:12):
an amazing conversation. I'm gonna be honest. Before I hopped
on here, I was feeling kind of down. You know,
I haven't been able to pursue very many things lately,
and that just gave me like the inspiration that I
needed and the hope that I needed. So seriously, thank
you to Katie. Such a great conversation. I know there
was so much that we covered, but mon, what gave
you chills? Because I feel like I still have some
(38:34):
Katie has a leadership quality about her that is so
empathy lad and even with her coaching style and being
player oriented, really resonates with me. I wish I wish
when I was younger, I had a coach like Katie,
And I wish that my coach said, hey, let's write
ourselves a letter for five years from now, or a
(38:56):
coach that journal said how to be reflective and how
to be goal oriented and process oriented. And just what
she brings the table as her full authentic self is
truly truly shaping the way that I see society respecting
and appreciating women in sport. I'm just so motivated. I'm
(39:17):
notivated to be a part of this change. Yeah. I
know when she she was talking about the narrative, and
this is a huge thing that I love talking about
two because I feel like it's a very pivotal point
in especially women's journeys to discovering you know, what is
that they love? How can they achieve success? Like all
of these things kind of come back down to the narrative.
What is the narrative? And that's what she was kind
(39:39):
of referring to, you know, pay attention to the facts.
What is the actual narrative that can change our lives
and grow our confidence. And when she said that, I mean,
I full body chills because that's so true. And knowing
that she's translating that to other women and to the NFL,
it's like she's changing the world. And I hope that
she realizes that because this is huge and the journaling.
(40:01):
Had I had that when I was younger instead of
just being yelled at and told that I need to
lose weight, it would have changed everything for me. I
think I would have found confidence, and I would have
found my passion for weightlifting. I would have found it
a lot sooner. I really do believe that. So I'm
so inspired right now. Yeah, and it's it just makes
me feel good that, you know, young girls or even
(40:22):
women right now in our age range have someone to
look up to in that way. Seriously, me too. Al Right,
it is time for the good old gold check. Let's
see where we're at with this. So, for those of
you who are listening, this is the portion of the
show where Meg and I do a check in on
our goals. We think it's really important to express what
it is that we're working on and to be able
(40:44):
to manifest it through words and through sharing. So, Meg,
what are you working on this week? All right, Well,
I'm working on stay in left, Stay in the left,
you know, Okay, good, Yes, I'm with your group completely.
That's literally my goal this week. Um, I'm recovering. I'm
doing a little bit better. It's only in the morning
(41:04):
now I'm having some issues. So right now, it's just
about again, just like last time, staying hydrated, its staying nourished.
And I'm gonna try and like do a little bit
of walking just around the house, maybe up the stairs
and down the stairs a couple of times, just to
see what that feels like again, because I know that
when I start working out, um, it probably won't be
next week, but the week after. I have about another
(41:25):
week and a half before I can start really lifting
a little bit of weight again. Right now, it's just
all body weight stuff. So yeah, that's pretty much my
only goal this week is stay alive, stay hydrated, stay nourished,
and move as much as I can inside my house.
It's pretty much it. What about you? Well, for me,
I've just had a sparring day for my charity fight
(41:49):
and we are well matched up. My opponent is a
little bit taller than me, a little bit longer, of
a reach, and now it's just about savage mode. I've
just made my gold to show up to every session
with the intention of getting better. I've had, you know,
my my coaches, my boyfriend. So sometimes it goes really
well and it's really sweet, and other times I'm not
(42:13):
the easiest to work with. And so I've told myself,
if I can show up with that can do attitude
and with a humble nature and a hard working nature,
then I'm going to produce better results for myself and
for the team around me. So I've just been focused
on just going full savage, showing up and grinding it out.
And if I am facing a lawlor like the second
(42:35):
half of my cycle, then I'm just dialing back the
amount of time and making sure that i'm you know,
keeping good energy levels to honor good performance and not
drain myself. So it's turned up time. I'm really excited.
We're weeks out and I've been sending prayers your way
and really just been thinking of you and all the
(42:56):
moments that I've felt my energy dip or anything like that,
I'm like, you know, well, Meg is fighting through something too,
and we're fighting through it together, so I know that
you know you do the same for me, and I
feel that support. And I also love hearing from everyone
when they reach out and tell me they enjoy watching
my training videos or you know that they're doing their
own things as far as trying out boxing or trying
(43:18):
out lifting. So you guys definitely keep sharing with us,
and thank you so much for keeping us in your thoughts.
That is exactly what we need. Yes, And I'm just
gonna live vicariously through you. I've been like watching your
stories and just following along, and it's like it's nice
for me to just feel like she is just out there,
she's doing it, and I just get to live by
carelessly through and it's the best feeling of it. It
(43:38):
gives me hope, it gives me inspiration, and I don't know,
it's just it's so cool what you're doing. And one
of these days we're going to have a little boxing
session together because I am so determined to try it
out more than what I did. Soon, stay tuned, that'll
be yes, definitely, yes. Yeah, that is how we united.
(43:59):
So recap y'all. Meg and I met at a summit
through under armour. We were actually able to you know,
actually work out together through a bash boxing workout. So
to take you through the workout that I created was
like and it was it was so crazy to be
here now I know, I know, and that I literally
had like a panic attack the night before that day
and almost left. And that day after that boxing class,
(44:22):
I actually went to my Instagram. I wrote this in
my book too. I went to my Instagram and I
put athletes for the first time in my bio and
it was like a monumental moment. So it's just it's
amazing that I get we get this moment together. So
thank you, Mom, I love you. You're so welcome. I
love you back girl. Thank you all so much for
continuing to interact with us listening in on our episodes.
(44:44):
We can't wait to talk to you again next week. Absolutely,
And that's it for this week's episode, but don't forget
to join us next week when we talk about goals
and benchmarks and how we can set ourselves up for
success with creating realistic objectives for our training. Thanks for
joining us, fit am. If you liked what you heard
on the show, subscribe for free or follow the show
on the i Heeart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever
(45:05):
you listen and don't forget to leave a five star
rating and review. Yes, please until next time, Stay inspired,
stay motivated, and remember to always sweat the details. Bye bye.
(45:28):
If you liked what you heard on the show, subscribe
for free or follow the show on the I Heart
Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen and don't
forget to leave a five star rating and review Sweat
the Details. As a collaboration with under Armour and I
Heart Radio, our show was hosted by me Monica Jones
and me Meg Box. Our executive producers are Jess strip Stein,
Just Sell, Louis Archibald, Molly Sosha and Maya Cole. Our
(45:51):
producers are Kelly and tole Leyla Cadrain, Emma Osborne and
Alejandra Arrivallo. And our sound editor and engineer is Sarah
or GiB A Leska. Keep up the latest news in
women's fitness by following under Armour at under Armour Women
and at under Armour h
The narrative that we tell ourselves really can shape our lives.
And the more that we can narrow down what's the
facts of what's going on and what's the actual narrative,
the more that we can change that narrative to build
our own confidence, and the more competence we have in ourselves,
the more positive that narrative becomes. This is Sweat the Details,
(00:26):
a collaboration with Under Armour and I Heart Radio, a
sports and training podcast made for women by women that
puts our success in challenges at the front and center.
I'm Monica Jones, I'm a fitness coach, boxer, business owner,
and you a athlete. And I'm Meg Bogs. I'm a powerlifter, author,
body positivity advocate and mother. Every episode, Monica and I
(00:46):
will talk to athletes, trainers, and experts and learn more
about how the body mind work together in training and competition. Today,
we're talking with Kansas City Chiefs coach Katie Sours. Katie
is the first woman to coach in the Super Bowl.
Katie didn't think coaching football was a career possibility because
she had never seen women in those roles, But her
drive to break barriers and her passion for the sport
(01:07):
led her to work with some of the best teams
in the country. Before becoming a coach, Katie played football
for the Women's Football Alliance and the US women's National
American football team, which won the International Federation of American
Football Women's World Championship in So awesome. I'm really excited
to learn about her coaching experience and how she is
(01:29):
paving the path for a new generation of women getting
into the sports industry as coaches and players. Katie is
an absolute baller, and I am so excited for everyone
to hear this conversation. When it comes to women in sports,
I just feel as if we're still so behind, not
only in the respect for what a woman's body can do,
(01:51):
what a team of women can do together, but also
how entertaining it truly is, if the marketing were to match,
if we would put the funding behind it, if we
had more women in these positions to set the example
for younger girls. I mean, I tried CrossFit for the
first time in and I saw a black woman leading
a class to see a woman they're doing it, and
(02:14):
a black woman, I was like, oh my gosh, I
have to try this out. Same with any other sport
that I've approached, it's from seeing another woman do it. Yeah,
it's that representation. You know, if you never see anybody
who looks like you doing the things that you love,
you just assume, Okay, well, that's not something that I'm
allowed to do. It's not something that I'll ever succeed at,
So you just give up on it. And you know,
women like Katie are stepping up and saying, no, that's
(02:36):
not that's not how we're going to do it anymore.
You know, it translates to anything. Like you said, you
saw a black woman leading, I've seen a plus sized
woman leading, and let me tell you, it changed the
game for me. It made me realize that there are
possibilities for someone like me. And you know what, there
may not be very many right now, but I'm gonna
do everything i can to make sure that other plus
sized women get that opportunity. So I'm just I'm so
(02:59):
pumped for this Converse station. Yes, And you know what's
wild is even when we get our foot in the door,
because of that woman, we unite. We have to stick
together and band together and it makes us stronger. I'm
totally moved by this conversation, and I'm very, very excited.
So what do you say, Meg? You ready to get
into Katie's interview? Let's get it. What's going on everyone today?
(03:23):
We have the incredible Katie Sours here with US Kansas
City chief coach and former offensive assistant coach for the
San Francisco forty Niners. And let me just say, we
are so excited for you to be here, Katie. Welcome
to what the details? How are you? Thank you for
having me. I'm doing well. How are you guys doing.
We're hanging in there. Yeah, we're good. We are honored
(03:44):
to have you. This is going to be a dope conversation. Yes,
we are. We're pumped. So I just want to start
from the beginning. Can you just walk us through your
journey into football. How did your passion for the game
begin and when did you start playing? Yeah? You know
when I was little. It was weird because my dad
never played football, my mom was never involved in football. Uh,
(04:05):
And I truly think it was when I watched the
movie The Little Giants, which is, uh, if you haven't
seen it, it's one of the best movies of all time.
And I remember watching Ice Box and seeing her play
football with the boys. And I was like, I can
be like Ice Box. I mean, every journal I have,
I'm talking about football. I I talked about going home
(04:28):
playing football, calling up all the neighbor boys that I
can find, uh and and seeing if they wanted to
come out and play. And so it wasn't your typical
young girl upbringing, if you want to tak stereotypes. But
that's really where it began. That is so cool. I mean,
I think a lot of us can recall a time
(04:51):
where we've watched a movie like that as young girls
and been like, hold on, she's kind of scrappy, and
I like that, and I really I kind of relate
to that. That's really so. Was it always your plan
to actually work in the football industry? Like what was
the moment when you decided to turn your passion into
a career. You know, when I was growing up, I
(05:11):
never envisioned myself coaching football. One of the reasons was
it I just never saw it as an opportunity. It
never even crossed my mind. I think that can translate
to so many things, whether it be a female being president,
or if you don't see it, you don't necessarily know
that you can strive for it. I knew I wanted
to coach UH, and so when I was out playing
(05:33):
with the boys like I always did, and I remember
the day that I felt like the boys were just
getting bigger than me, and I remember this hit that
hurts so bad, and I just realized that I can't
play with these guys anymore. And it never crossed my
mind to think about coaching football because the opportunity didn't
didn't feel like it truly existed. So I kind of
(05:57):
moved my passion to basketball, and you know, I I
thought I was going to be happy with that, and
it was actually a course of um, you know, what
some people might see as failures or some people might
see as mistakes that actually led me to where I
am today, and one of those being actually, you know,
I was an athletic director for the City of Kansas City.
(06:18):
I was just trying to figure out really what I
wanted to do with my life and wanted to continue
coaching UH. And at the time, I was playing women's
tackle football that I had found, you know, and that's
a whole another story in itself, but I still even
at that point, didn't realize that I could coach football,
you know, and make a living off of it. Until
(06:39):
I saw Becky Hamon coaching in the NBA. And after
that moment, I posted something on my Instagram. I said, NFL,
I'm coming for you, and I knew, without a doubt,
I was going to coach in the NFL. Oh my god,
that's amazing. So I mean it was something that kind
of had to evolve for you to realize that it
could be a possibility. Yeah, it was a out of
(07:00):
doors slamming in my face, to be honest. You know
one UM story that I like to tell just because
of UM. I think we all have that moment where
something feels like we're striving for and then the door closes,
and I think we often too much. We were trying
to get back into that door after it's closed, and
(07:20):
we missed so many opportunities that have opened up for us.
And you know, one of those was when I was
at ghosh In College, which is a small Menuonite college.
At the time, they didn't even have professors who were
could be openly gay, and I was gay. I wasn't
necessarily out because we weren't really supposed to be out.
(07:41):
And as I you know, graduated well I thought I
was going to graduate in four years, had to take
some extra credits, so I was done with my basketball eligibility,
and I decided, this is where I can start getting
my you know, my resume for being coaching basketball. So
I asked my coach if you know, I could be
a volunteer assistant, and he told me that because of
(08:04):
my lifestyle, I was no longer wanted around the team.
And so it was that moment that I, you know,
I thought my basketball coaching career had ended before it
even began. But what I realized was that moment led
me to playing women's tackle football and looking for more,
which then you know, continued to lead on my path. Wow,
(08:25):
it's just my blood. Just like broils. Sometimes we need
that no though, right, Like the no pushes us in
the right direction and it sucks, right, You're like, I'm
so sick of hearing no, and I'm sick of hearing
that who I am, to my pore is not what
is fitting for trying to volunteer my time and trying
to make a team better and trying to you know, contribute.
(08:48):
But look at us now, Yeah, I'm ready to send
a thank you. Not at some point and and thank
him for that. So I know that you, um, you
represented the US internationally as part of the women's national
techle football team. So could you tell us more about
this experience. How did you feel representing your country in
(09:09):
an international championship. Yeah, that was probably one of the
best experiences of my life. Not only had I never
even been outside of the country, you know, I was
a small town girl from Kansas, never been outside the country,
and here I am traveling to Finland with Team USA.
And there's a funny story behind me actually trying out
for Team USA. I remember actually telling my twin sister
(09:33):
I wasn't going to try out because I didn't think
I was going to make it. And I think a
lot of people can relate where it's like you'd rather,
um just pass up an opportunity than fail, and I was.
I was really at that point afraid to fail. And
she convinced me to try out and lo and behold,
I'd become a starter and actually one game become a
(09:53):
game m v P where I had five interceptions in
one game when we played Germany on July fourth as incredible.
But I remember thinking back because the national anthem was playing,
I was looking at all the helmets that matched. And
you know, in my journal entries I had I had
dreamed of wearing matching helmets, wearing matching jerseys, of being
(10:14):
on what I called a real football team. And I
was standing there just looking at all of these women
that were playing a sport that I dreamed of playing
when I was younger, and it was an incredible moment.
That's so inspiring. Rather pass up an opportunity than fail,
I think is so common, it's wild. So after being
(10:38):
a tackle football player, you shifted to coaching and did
you feel your relationship with the sport changed when you
went from being a player to a coach. I always
thought that my transition out of playing was going to
be difficult, but what I found was I was born
to be a teacher. I was born to be a coach.
I was I was. I just have this passion inside
(10:59):
of me and so it feels like I didn't even
miss a beat with that transition. Now that I have
the opportunity, you know, whether it be coaching my flag
football girls at Hanawa University, which is, you know, amazing
in itself, and that's something I'm so proud of um
or whether it be coaching NFL players. It's a passion
(11:19):
that I have to just make them better. And it
feels like I, in a way, I'm still playing myself
because I'm seeing myself in them. That's so true. I
had thought about it that, like that hat, You've broken
so many barriers for female leadership in a male dominated sport,
which is like incredible. What do you think has made
you so successful in navigating those spaces and you know,
(11:42):
rising as a woman coach in the NFL. I think
the thing that's really helped me within my career is
it seems simple, but is reflection. And and I when
I say that, I remember. So I keep journals of
everything throughout my life. Um, and I try to keep
it up to date as possible. But I'll go back
(12:02):
and I'll read those journal entries. And I have a
journal entry where I was laying in bed. This was,
you know, maybe when I was about twenty years old,
and it basically was a note to myself, and I
told myself, you know, here I am laying in bed.
I have no idea what my future looks like. I
feel lost, but I feel this sense of hope and
(12:23):
I feel this sense of something's coming. You know that
that is going to be worth it. And I told myself,
you know, I hope when you read this you're happy.
And if you haven't found happiness, go out and find it.
And so I think you know that by keeping journal entries,
by continuing to remind myself of how far I've come,
being able to look back on those, it's helped me
(12:45):
to have a better perspective on my life. Um, the
way I come into situations, the way I attack problems.
It's really changed me. And so that I think I
I hold that to be um a big factor in
a lot of my success. That's incredible. Yes, dear diary
is the story of my life. That is so awesome.
(13:08):
I mean, to have those entries to remind you of
where you were at that point, to be able to
speak to yourself in the future is I mean, it's
next level. It is such a game changer when it
comes to, you know, fighting for yourself, especially in a
place where there's not a lot of women, where there
just aren't that many women leading the way just yet.
(13:29):
To be that it means you've really got to have
those type of practices on luck, which is incredible, absolutely
so right now. You're currently volunteering as a coach for
the flag football team at Ottawa University. So can you
tell us more about your experience and passion for flag football. Yeah, so, um,
you know, this is another situation that just kind of
happened by a path that I didn't expect. And you know,
(13:52):
when things ended in San Francisco, I remember coming home
and I honestly I had no idea what was next.
And my twin sister had just at this head coaching
job for the Ottawa Braves, which happens to be the
same conference that my dad used to coach basketball and
back in the day. And my dad passed away about
a year and a half ago, and so you know,
(14:14):
her getting that head coaching job, um, soon after he
passed away. It was almost like he played a part
in that. And so I came home and it was
just supposed to be me going to visit practice and
talk to the girls, uh, And it ended me never
wanting to leave. Uh. And I saw these young women
(14:36):
who never thought they'd have a chance to play football
in college, and here they were on college scholarships for
the first time ever playing football. And to see their passion,
to see their drive. I had never been a part
of a team with that much love for the game,
and I knew that, you know, I was jealous in
(14:57):
a way of what they had. I wish I had
those opportunity these but I knew that we had to
do more and and in a way, it was a
time for me to use the platform, you know, the
lights that were shining on me, and actually turn them
over to them because they are game changers. They are
the first sever national champions in the sport of flag football.
(15:17):
And you know, I see flag football being an Olympic sport.
I see it being a game changer for women. I
love that so great. How was your coaching experience with
the women's flag football team? How has it been different
from coaching in the NFL. There's you know, there's a
lot of differences. UM. One of the main ones being,
(15:39):
you know, with the NFL, you're you're working with a
lot of players where they're getting paid to play. Um.
They that's their living, that's their way of life. UM.
With these young women, they don't pay I mean, they
don't get paid to play. They play purely for the love.
Most of them are spending about thirty thou all there's
(16:00):
a year to go to school, and that's you know,
with a scholarship. Um. You know, there's just not a
lot of opportunities for scholarships. And and so you see
them coming to small town Ottawa, Kansas, from places like
Las Vegas, from places like Florida, from all over the country,
and you just see them become a family. Winning that
(16:22):
National Championship that was hosted by the Falcons was probably
a better and more fulfilling moment for me than even
the Super Bowl. Why do you think that is? Because
I I felt like winning that National Championship was the
start of something amazing for women. And my time in
(16:44):
the NFL is great. It's a great platform, it's great
visibility for women. But I believe that women deserve a
field of their own, a league of their own, a
team of their own, and this is the start of that. Well,
you're paving the way for sure, I hope. So we
have a large gap to bridge. You know, I'm reading
the studies and just to understand the fact that when
(17:06):
you're playing in the NFL, we're making upwards of three
million dollars and we have women out here who love
their sport and want to play and pay to play
in their leagues. So to be able to see that
championship take you guys to this point is really inspiring
and I am loving that we're keeping this conversation going. Yeah,
(17:28):
I actually saw some facts. Can't quote me on this,
but I believe it's true that there's a backup quarterback
in the NFL that makes more per year than every
woman in the w n b A makes. I don't
doubt it. And so that reality in itself is um
it says everything we need to know. Yep. And and
a lot of people can say it's because of the
(17:51):
you know, people aren't interested in watching women in sports,
but the reality is look at the the USA women's
national soccer team. When people invest in getting to know
the players that they're trying to market, When you put
marketing money into those things, people invest in those those teams,
And if it's not put into women's teams, people won't
invest in them. Absolutely, And when you think about those
(18:13):
who really want to invest in follow up and watch
these women play, it's women. So can we find the
importance of us wanting to see each other perform in sport?
You absolutely well, Katie, how would you describe your leadership
and coaching style. You know, how's it different from traditional
coaching styles. You know, I would say I'm I'm very
(18:36):
player oriented when it comes to my coaching style. Um,
you know that you can think of authoritarian, and you
can think of all these different styles. I'm not going
to be the person that goes out and yells just
to yell. And so it's about, you know, what is
going to make these players the best player on and
off the field that they can be. Um, whether it
(18:58):
be you know, with my football women, we actually wrote
a letter. We had them write a letter to themselves
in five years, and in five years we're going to
send it to them. And things like that, I think
not only improve themselves as people, make them more reflective
of who they want to be, who they you know,
think that they're going to be in five years, but
(19:20):
also it makes them closer when they get on the
field and when they perform on the field, and and
we've seen that translate so much. Wow, that is incredible. Yeah,
I can only imagine your players opening up that letter
in five years and thinking of you, thinking of their teammates,
thinking that that moment, that's that's groundbreaking. That's so exciting. So, Katie,
(19:44):
how can we increase diversity in sports leadership positions? I
know it's a big one. Well, I think changing the
way in which we as a society operate is going
to be foundation changing the way we raise our children.
I think it's not something that we can just tell,
(20:05):
you know, the white straight males to do and all
automatically they do it. I think it's something that we
have ingrained in our society when we have, you know,
these aisles that we think are dedicated to girls, and
then we see these aisles that are dedicated to boys,
and we have this this view of how we treat
different types of people based on how they look, based
(20:27):
on their gender um and until we can change that viewpoint.
Like my niece, who I didn't realize we were actually
creating a bias in her when all she knew growing
up was girls playing football. She would come to our games,
my twin sister and I and it wasn't until she
was about four years old. We were driving down the
(20:48):
road and we were talking about the boys that we're
playing in in some park and we pointed them out
and she said, boys don't play football, and we had
to explain into her that boys and girls play football.
And and my niece, for those of you who don't
know her, is one of the most stereotypical girly girls
(21:10):
without any force from her family. She likes pink, she
loves to dance, she wants to do everything you know
that that you would stereotype a girl. But she believed
that only girls played football, even though she had no
interest in it, because what she was seeing, you know exactly.
That just shows yea, there's what we have a long
(21:32):
way to go. Yeah. I mean, my my daughter's three
and a half and she's not really into girly things.
She's very into dinosaurs and trucks, and she wants to
be throwing balls around and kicking balls around, and that's
just who she is. And I go into stores and stuff,
and I see the difference. Like I didn't really pay
attention to it until I became a mom, and now
I'm like, wow, it's very obvious having a daughter who's
(21:54):
not into those things. So yeah, yeah, I think there's
a lot of unconscious bias that goes on um in
this world. And and the only way to change is
at the ground level and changing our mindset and raise
our children so that they can appreciate diversity for what
it is and um and and they don't see past,
(22:16):
you know, their own biases. Absolutely, there's absolutely a mindfulness
to it. And also you know, a lot of these
biases aren't created with malintent. It's just kind of our
our default, right, and it's definitely it's always been, and
it's so important to have people even having conversations. We
can't really discount the importance of just an everyday, day
(22:40):
to day conversation. It doesn't always have to be a
huge gesture. Absolutely, So what you know, advice would you
give to women who are starting to play a male
dominated sport but are worried, you know about like what
we were talking about earlier, about the prejudices and the stereotypes.
What advice would you give those women? I think the
first thing I would give a guess this would apply
(23:00):
to anybody, is know the narrative that you're telling yourself,
know what the facts are, and have competence in yourself.
I think we often get in situations where we feel
like we're the underdog, and more often than not, if
we feel like that, we probably are. But more often
than that, I think we are telling ourselves a narrative
that could be different than what the narrative actually is,
(23:23):
because we're already coming and doubting ourselves. We find ourselves
if someone's quiet, or if someone is treating us different,
we think maybe we're not doing our job, maybe we're
not as good as you know they think we might be,
or that imposter syndrome. And the narrative that we tell
ourselves really can shape our lives. And the more that
(23:44):
we can narrow down what's the facts of what's going
on and what's the actual narrative, the more that we
can change that narrative to build our own confidence, and
the more competence we have in ourselves, the more positive
that narrative becomes, and the more we actually take the
facts and and take them for what they are. So
I would say, continue to build confidence. Stop worrying about
(24:07):
what other people are thinking about you, because when you're
spending your energy thinking about what other people are thinking
about you, you're wasting time you could be better in yourself.
So you know, I guess to make it short, it's
really gain confidence and continue just to build on what
you can improve on and forget the outside noise facts
(24:29):
that wow I mean, we can end it right there.
That was what I have to go and get into
my next session. So do you have any advice for
people who are not yet pro but when it grow
in their sport while juggling other responsibilities like studying or working. Yeah,
it's all about time management, but it's also about keeping
(24:51):
a healthy mindset. And I think we think that we
need to actually physically rest, which we do, but we
also need to emotionally rest. We need to be able
to take that time, find that time, whether it be
with family and not just going and being with family
and thinking about other things. Going with family and being present.
The more present you are in each moment, the more
(25:13):
that I found I've been able to juggle multiple things. Uh,
instead of thinking about what's next, think about what's now
and be the best person you can be in that
now moment um and it will make you more energized
for the next moment. And being your authentic self true
you know is a huge factor. I know you talked
(25:35):
about earlier that just horrible moment that you experienced, UM
when you came out or you were trying to come out. UM.
A lot of NFL players are just starting to come
out and as a member of the l g B
t q I A plus community, what do you think
this moment could mean, you know, for football specifically in
sports more broadly, I think you know, having a player
(25:57):
actually come out was was a game change injur It
forces a conversation of you know, the way that we talk,
the way that we treat each other, the things that
we might say that we don't even think about, Like
if the coach is inviting players in their family to
a team party and they're saying, your wives are invited,
that is no longer something that we should say. That's
(26:20):
not your partners, you're you know, your significant others. You
can't assume that every man on the team has a wife.
So it changes the game. With just the language we
use on a daily basis, HM, that's so true. Inclusive
language can make people feel comfortable, make people feel like
they're accepted, like they are part of something. And I
(26:42):
could see how that even that one little sentence could
probably trigger somebody who's still trying to decide if that's
a moment that they feel like they are comfortable doing
the language we use daily. There are people that are
analyzing whether someone is safe to be themselves or round
and you know, small comments like that can make the difference. Yes, absolutely,
(27:04):
And you know, even in such a masculine dominated or
masculine represented sports, sometimes it's just the default. It's not
necessarily an attempt to be uninclusive. But we could all
use that mindfulness. Yeah. Sometimes it just takes awareness. Yeah,
and it's being you know, if you're the person hearing that, um,
(27:26):
it's being understanding and seeking first to understand. And you know,
this idea of hatred will not here ignorance And I
continue to to say that, I believe it. So the
more that we we hear someone that might say something wrong,
hate is never going to cure that ignorance. The only
thing that will cure that is education. Communication. It can
(27:47):
be you know, using comedy, using um jokes to help
make that person feel like, you know, it's okay to
talk to me, it's okay to to try to be inclusive,
even if you're saying the wrong thing, as long as
we're talking, and it doesn't just become locker room talk,
because when it becomes locker room talk, you don't have
a chance to make a change. It's so true. Yes,
(28:11):
So taking that conversation outside the locker room and really
making an attempt to be mindful so powerful. Do you
have any advice, key or resources for women who want
to explore a career as football coaches like you? Yeah,
I think you yourself is going to be, first of all,
your biggest resource. I think we often get in the
(28:32):
mindset of we're going to be given the information we need,
We're gonna be handed everything. But that's not the case.
You have to make sure that what are you doing
to hold yourself accountable, to make sure that if and
when that opportunity comes up, because it could come up
at any time. You never know when you're meeting someone
that's going to change your life. But when that opportunity
(28:53):
comes up, are you going to be ready? Uh? And
also just putting yourself in opportunities that even if it's
not your dream job. Me coaching fifth grade girls basketball
led me to the NFL. It wasn't my dream job,
but I knew that I had to show up every
day as the best coach and it just so happened
that I ended up meeting someone that really put me
(29:13):
on my path to the NFL. So showing up regardless
of what it is, um being the best version of
yourself and holding yourself accountable to no more and do more. Yes,
if they showed up that day and you were halfway there,
are really not interested in the work you'd be doing,
it would make a huge difference in where you ended up. Absolutely, So, Katie,
(29:34):
what's next for you in your career? Any projects or
games are excited about that you'd like to share with
our listeners. Yeah, so right now for the year, I'm
I'm gonna be working with the women's flag football team
at Ottawa University. I was hired just for the year
as UH Director of Athletic Initiatives and Strategies UM for
(29:55):
really making Autawa University in small town Kansas a hub
for women's sports and women flag football. I'm going to
push to get Kansas to recognize flag football as a
high school varsity sport. I think there's so many women
out there that that can do that. And then um,
from there, you know, the NFL is still an opportunity
(30:16):
for me that, um, we'll see if that if if
it's the right choice. When that time comes, It's hard
for me to picture leaving my otto of braves, but
you know, well, we'll see what happens, and whatever path
is meant for me, that's the path I'll be on.
Exciting stuff. So we spoke about this earlier. But oftentimes
(30:38):
women's football players have to pay hundreds of dollars to
fund their teams and pay for their spot in the league.
Unlike the male players, you get millions of dollars a year,
female players don't get a salary, so they must find
other jobs to support themselves. Katie, do you have any
thoughts on this. How can we achieve a better work
model for female football players and what can we do
(30:58):
to make women's football more popular among football fans. Yeah,
that was one of the most frustrating things when I
was playing. I remember working. Um, I was coaching, and
I was athletic director, and I was trying to play
football and I was a volunteer general manager for our
team at the same time. Um, but here there are
these men making millions. So in order to change that,
(31:20):
first of all, as I said, the society as a
whole needs to view women in sports differently. But also, UM,
we need to continue to do what we're doing now
in building the foundation for women to be able to
play on teams at a younger level to raise the
game so they're not just starting out, and then we're
trying to sell this product of all these women who
(31:41):
are playing football for the first time. If you go
and watch these teams, these young girls who have been
playing flag football their entire lives, it's some of the
best football you will see. And when you get that product,
you can then develop them into professional athletes that the
game is exciting, that the game is all of of
you know, talented players, and that's what's going to really
(32:04):
move that game forward. Yes, start them young, creating opportunities
for young female athletes, and get them in high schools.
That's gotta you gotta get flag football because I know
I didn't play soccer in middle school because we didn't
have a soccer program and my small school in high school,
and so if people don't see it as an opportunity,
(32:24):
they're not going to pursue it um. So it has
to be an opportunity. The only time I remember flag
football was in like elementary and it was by far
my favorite thing that we ever did, and it made me,
which is the best. It just ended, you know, it's
like you get older and then it just goes away
and I was like, that was my favorite thing to do.
I'm pretty sure I hate during the mile, really hate
(32:47):
during the mile, but I was there for that flag.
Football Gosh under Armours with the Details will be back
after a short break. Welcome back to Swept the Details.
We're gonna shake it out just a little bit, all right.
So usually on the show, we'll take a segment and
(33:09):
lighten the mood and have some fun with our guests.
So Katie, as we play this game, it's gonna be
called first Things First, and we are going to ask
you some questions and you can kind of just rapid
fire them out about your experience in the game and
in any of your kind of preferences on game day.
All right, let's do that, all right. I'll kick us off.
(33:29):
Who was the first athlete that inspired you to pursue football?
Deon Sanders? Okay, shout out to Why is that? I
wore his jersey NonStop? It was when he was a
Cowboys player. You know, I was a huge Cowboys fan.
I even in elementary school, I acted like I was
Deon Sanders for one of my speeches that I gave Nice.
(33:51):
Oh my gosh, that's amazing. I had an emmet jersey
that I wore every night. All right, love us? Yes,
all right? Ready? What team was your first professional game against?
It was against the Washington football team, you know, not
at the time, different name, but that was the first
(34:12):
preseason game that I played as a coach professionally. Now,
if we're talking women's tackle football, it was against a
team in Fort Wayne, Indiana. Is there anything special about
those games that you remember that are just like I
could never forget that. Well, the Fort Wayne game, I remember,
you know, there was a starting linebacker who was going
(34:35):
off to the Army and I was late to the
team and I didn't have a spot. So I told
the coach I wanted to play linebacker, and he like
laughed at me, and I'm like, no, I'm I really
do And he said okay. And I ended up, you know,
being an All American linebacker that year, because yeah, I
was like, no, I'm doing this. I don't know any better,
you know, I'm gonna I don't know that I'm not
(34:56):
the right fit for that, But I ended up making
it work. That's awesome. What was your first win as
a professional football player. It was actually my first game
in Fort Wayne. Our team the Michigan Mayhem. We actually
ended up that first year going to the quote unquote
Super Bowl, which was in New Orleans. We ended up
(35:16):
losing to the St. Louis Slam in New Orleans. What
was your first win as an NFL coach? My first
win as an NFL coach did not come until our
game against Houston. We were oh and nine starting out
when I was a full time coach with the forty Niners,
and I remember us winning that first game. Actually I
(35:40):
think it was against Chicago actually, um, but we ended
up going six straight wins at the end the season.
So after starting oh nine and ending that season with
six straight wins, it was incredible. I don't hold that
as like a favorable memory because it was such a
crazy year. Um, and there are other wins that are
(36:00):
more important than that. But yeah, I guess that's it.
So the first isn't always in the most important Yeah. Yeah,
to me, it's just part of the journey in my opinion. Well,
you are the first in a lot of different ways
in leadership. What is the first thing you do in
the morning of a game day. In the morning of
a game day, UM, I typically get up and I
(36:22):
try to eat breakfast. But I'm typically nervous, uh, which
is crazy for people who think, well, you're not playing,
so how are you. The one routine that I always
have is I listened to two songs on on the
bus ride to the game that morning. I listened to
bless Us All from the Muffets Christmas Carol, which is
I Know It's weird, and then something inside so strong. Um,
(36:46):
those are two songs that remind me of my family,
that remind me of where I've come from. Um, bless
Us All was always what we'd play before my Grandma's
Sunday dinner every Sunday. Um, we'd all stand up, hold
hands as a family. And so just I look out
the window and play those songs. I love it. I
love that music is powerful, it is well. This was
(37:10):
an incredible conversation. Thank you, Katie. That was awesome. It
has been a pleasure to have you on. And because
you please let our listeners know where they can find you. Yeah,
you can find me on Instagram Kate sours five. That's
really I have a TikTok. I do not use it
very much. I don't even know what my name is
(37:31):
on there, but my twin sister is, I guess, you know,
kind of TikTok famous. I'm a little bit. I have
more followers than I should with my posts. I can't
imagine if you posted Oh no, she she has posted
everything for me. It's pretty much something with her because
I still don't know how to use it. But it's
fun to keep up with the young generation. You gotta
(37:52):
keep up with the gen's. That's how we reach them. Yep,
they're keeping us fresh and vibrant. Ye. Thank you Katie
so much. This was such a great conversation and hopefully
we'll get to chat again soon. Awesome, Thank you guys
for having me. Thank you again to Katie for such
(38:12):
an amazing conversation. I'm gonna be honest. Before I hopped
on here, I was feeling kind of down. You know,
I haven't been able to pursue very many things lately,
and that just gave me like the inspiration that I
needed and the hope that I needed. So seriously, thank
you to Katie. Such a great conversation. I know there
was so much that we covered, but mon, what gave
you chills? Because I feel like I still have some
(38:34):
Katie has a leadership quality about her that is so
empathy lad and even with her coaching style and being
player oriented, really resonates with me. I wish I wish
when I was younger, I had a coach like Katie,
And I wish that my coach said, hey, let's write
ourselves a letter for five years from now, or a
(38:56):
coach that journal said how to be reflective and how
to be goal oriented and process oriented. And just what
she brings the table as her full authentic self is
truly truly shaping the way that I see society respecting
and appreciating women in sport. I'm just so motivated. I'm
(39:17):
notivated to be a part of this change. Yeah. I
know when she she was talking about the narrative, and
this is a huge thing that I love talking about
two because I feel like it's a very pivotal point
in especially women's journeys to discovering you know, what is
that they love? How can they achieve success? Like all
of these things kind of come back down to the narrative.
What is the narrative? And that's what she was kind
(39:39):
of referring to, you know, pay attention to the facts.
What is the actual narrative that can change our lives
and grow our confidence. And when she said that, I mean,
I full body chills because that's so true. And knowing
that she's translating that to other women and to the NFL,
it's like she's changing the world. And I hope that
she realizes that because this is huge and the journaling.
(40:01):
Had I had that when I was younger instead of
just being yelled at and told that I need to
lose weight, it would have changed everything for me. I
think I would have found confidence, and I would have
found my passion for weightlifting. I would have found it
a lot sooner. I really do believe that. So I'm
so inspired right now. Yeah, and it's it just makes
me feel good that, you know, young girls or even
(40:22):
women right now in our age range have someone to
look up to in that way. Seriously, me too. Al Right,
it is time for the good old gold check. Let's
see where we're at with this. So, for those of
you who are listening, this is the portion of the
show where Meg and I do a check in on
our goals. We think it's really important to express what
it is that we're working on and to be able
(40:44):
to manifest it through words and through sharing. So, Meg,
what are you working on this week? All right, Well,
I'm working on stay in left, Stay in the left,
you know, Okay, good, Yes, I'm with your group completely.
That's literally my goal this week. Um, I'm recovering. I'm
doing a little bit better. It's only in the morning
(41:04):
now I'm having some issues. So right now, it's just
about again, just like last time, staying hydrated, its staying nourished.
And I'm gonna try and like do a little bit
of walking just around the house, maybe up the stairs
and down the stairs a couple of times, just to
see what that feels like again, because I know that
when I start working out, um, it probably won't be
next week, but the week after. I have about another
(41:25):
week and a half before I can start really lifting
a little bit of weight again. Right now, it's just
all body weight stuff. So yeah, that's pretty much my
only goal this week is stay alive, stay hydrated, stay nourished,
and move as much as I can inside my house.
It's pretty much it. What about you? Well, for me,
I've just had a sparring day for my charity fight
(41:49):
and we are well matched up. My opponent is a
little bit taller than me, a little bit longer, of
a reach, and now it's just about savage mode. I've
just made my gold to show up to every session
with the intention of getting better. I've had, you know,
my my coaches, my boyfriend. So sometimes it goes really
well and it's really sweet, and other times I'm not
(42:13):
the easiest to work with. And so I've told myself,
if I can show up with that can do attitude
and with a humble nature and a hard working nature,
then I'm going to produce better results for myself and
for the team around me. So I've just been focused
on just going full savage, showing up and grinding it out.
And if I am facing a lawlor like the second
(42:35):
half of my cycle, then I'm just dialing back the
amount of time and making sure that i'm you know,
keeping good energy levels to honor good performance and not
drain myself. So it's turned up time. I'm really excited.
We're weeks out and I've been sending prayers your way
and really just been thinking of you and all the
(42:56):
moments that I've felt my energy dip or anything like that,
I'm like, you know, well, Meg is fighting through something too,
and we're fighting through it together, so I know that
you know you do the same for me, and I
feel that support. And I also love hearing from everyone
when they reach out and tell me they enjoy watching
my training videos or you know that they're doing their
own things as far as trying out boxing or trying
(43:18):
out lifting. So you guys definitely keep sharing with us,
and thank you so much for keeping us in your thoughts.
That is exactly what we need. Yes, And I'm just
gonna live vicariously through you. I've been like watching your
stories and just following along, and it's like it's nice
for me to just feel like she is just out there,
she's doing it, and I just get to live by
carelessly through and it's the best feeling of it. It
(43:38):
gives me hope, it gives me inspiration, and I don't know,
it's just it's so cool what you're doing. And one
of these days we're going to have a little boxing
session together because I am so determined to try it
out more than what I did. Soon, stay tuned, that'll
be yes, definitely, yes. Yeah, that is how we united.
(43:59):
So recap y'all. Meg and I met at a summit
through under armour. We were actually able to you know,
actually work out together through a bash boxing workout. So
to take you through the workout that I created was
like and it was it was so crazy to be
here now I know, I know, and that I literally
had like a panic attack the night before that day
and almost left. And that day after that boxing class,
(44:22):
I actually went to my Instagram. I wrote this in
my book too. I went to my Instagram and I
put athletes for the first time in my bio and
it was like a monumental moment. So it's just it's
amazing that I get we get this moment together. So
thank you, Mom, I love you. You're so welcome. I
love you back girl. Thank you all so much for
continuing to interact with us listening in on our episodes.
(44:44):
We can't wait to talk to you again next week. Absolutely,
And that's it for this week's episode, but don't forget
to join us next week when we talk about goals
and benchmarks and how we can set ourselves up for
success with creating realistic objectives for our training. Thanks for
joining us, fit am. If you liked what you heard
on the show, subscribe for free or follow the show
on the i Heeart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever
(45:05):
you listen and don't forget to leave a five star
rating and review. Yes, please until next time, Stay inspired,
stay motivated, and remember to always sweat the details. Bye bye.
(45:28):
If you liked what you heard on the show, subscribe
for free or follow the show on the I Heart
Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen and don't
forget to leave a five star rating and review Sweat
the Details. As a collaboration with under Armour and I
Heart Radio, our show was hosted by me Monica Jones
and me Meg Box. Our executive producers are Jess strip Stein,
Just Sell, Louis Archibald, Molly Sosha and Maya Cole. Our
(45:51):
producers are Kelly and tole Leyla Cadrain, Emma Osborne and
Alejandra Arrivallo. And our sound editor and engineer is Sarah
or GiB A Leska. Keep up the latest news in
women's fitness by following under Armour at under Armour Women
and at under Armour h
Hosts And Creators
Monica Jones
Meg Boggs
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