Cappadonna & Mathematics Share Untold Wu-Tang Stories: From Angela Yee’s Early Days To “Ice Cream”

Cappadonna & Mathematics Share Untold Wu-Tang Stories: From Angela Yee’s Early Days To “Ice Cream” + More 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
What's up Its way up and Angela yee, I'm here
with my girl Jazz mem Brands and for real, my
peoples are here. Allive math A Loive Mathematics, Cap Madonna's
good with you.

Speaker 2 (00:14):
Well.

Speaker 3 (00:14):
First of all, congratulations on everything.

Speaker 1 (00:17):
We haven't seen each other, I feel like in so long,
so this is like a reunion name before we start we.

Speaker 3 (00:22):
Started telling stories.

Speaker 1 (00:24):
Yeah right, but we do have a new album, Black
Sampson the Basket Swordsman on the Way, so congratulations on that.

Speaker 3 (00:34):
Cap is on the first single too, man Dingo Spaghetti Baby.
I need you to talk to a mike.

Speaker 2 (00:41):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm on four joints.

Speaker 3 (00:43):
Yes, you are good.

Speaker 1 (00:46):
Yeah, and you know I saw the video for that also,
so that's really all ai Ya I was.

Speaker 3 (00:52):
We were watching we.

Speaker 4 (00:52):
Were watching it. First of all, they're attractive.

Speaker 3 (00:59):
This is very I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:01):
That much about ai but clearly is something that we
all need to make sure that we are up on.
So talk to me about that process because everybody's nervous
about it too at the same time.

Speaker 5 (01:11):
Yeah, and I was too, But for me, I took
it back like when I first started DJing with Sirado
because I was against Serado for the longest. I'm like,
I'm rocking Vinyl. That said, then I actually went to
the CDJs for the shows because of the balancing around it,
and I avoided Serado. But then when I tried Soerrato, I.

Speaker 1 (01:31):
Was like, wait, hold on, right, I don't got to
carry crates anymore.

Speaker 5 (01:34):
Exactly, I ain't got to carry that big thing for
the record. So I learned after that. I learned to
embrace technology and use it. Learn learn about it first
through your research, and use it for you know what
best fits you. I think if you use AI right,
it's great because for one, even on an album, I
use like for the skits the karate flicks, those is

(01:57):
not karate flicks. That's me changing changing my voice to
sound like the karate.

Speaker 3 (02:03):
That's amazing.

Speaker 4 (02:04):
Was the idea to use AI so much in the project,
to incorporate.

Speaker 5 (02:08):
It well for that part. Yes, for the video part,
because at this point everybody's running around doing different things,
and I was really trying to formulate. It's harder now
to get brothers to do videos then to get on
the joint.

Speaker 1 (02:22):
Wow, I guess it's easier to send something to somebody
and they could do it. In the studio, because think
about a kapa back in the day when y'all was
working and having to be all together in the studio,
that's damn thear impossible to get and to even know
who's gonna be on the song.

Speaker 2 (02:36):
But that was some of the greatest and best times
because we got a chance to really collaborate. Plus I
didn't even have to ask nobody to get on the song.
We was all right there. So brothers are hearing me
in the studio spitting and they'll just come right in
and be like, yo, what's going on and start spitting
right behind me. And that's how we was making all
of those classics. So sending the music out it kind

(02:58):
of does water down the vibe a little bit because
you're not really doing personal person collaboration, you know what
I'm saying. Even with the AI, you know what I'm saying.
I respect modern day technology, but you know I don't.
I don't really like too much of having people impersonate me.

Speaker 4 (03:16):
I can understand that.

Speaker 2 (03:18):
I worked too hard a cartoon.

Speaker 1 (03:23):
I think a lot of people feel that way. But
to see so I want to hear from you math now.

Speaker 5 (03:27):
I agree with him. That's why I didn't have nobody
impersonate nobody in the video. I told a story a
whole different. Yeah, I told a story. It's like, yeah,
it's like a movie now now. And I get it
because I write too, so you know, I wrote some
scripts and I shot a few things myself out of
my pocket, so I understand what it is to you know,
some people like, well, you taking money away from people

(03:49):
that could have shot this or did that. And that's
not my attention because I would I would love to
do it real with everybody, but met for shooting the movie,
right logistics hat was on tour, you know, everybody was someplace,
so it you know, and I had to put a
visual out with it. So this is what I did,
and and and I didn't do like the same AI

(04:11):
everybody uses and everybody did. That's why when you look
at it, a lot of people was questioning, is this
really a.

Speaker 4 (04:18):
Because they look like real people.

Speaker 2 (04:20):
Right right? I love it though, I love it. You know,
it's it's innovative, it's creative, and the fans love it too.

Speaker 4 (04:27):
So and it's got to be cost effective, right or
is it?

Speaker 5 (04:31):
But it actually is still pricey? It is, yeah, to
get what you quality yeah, to get the quality. It's
definitely pricey. But at the end of the day, I
got to tell a story that I want to tell
about Black Samson and I get to continue it. So,
but you're gonna get some real videos with this project too.
You're gonna get I got a few things. I don't

(04:53):
know if I could really speak on it right now.
We want to hear you know. Well, well, I also
shot a min movie video two so that that'll be
dropping soon.

Speaker 4 (05:04):
You said you dropped up.

Speaker 5 (05:05):
No, I didn't drop it yet.

Speaker 4 (05:06):
I shot you shot a mini movie yeah, ok yeah.

Speaker 5 (05:09):
Yeah for the album with real actors and AI about
this okay? You said, with real people, yeah, real people. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (05:17):
And just so you know, when I started this show
way up with Angela Yee, I was very aware that
way up was like woo, way way up with Angela
Yee because Wu Tang was a big part of who
I am today, you know, just like from me interning
when I was in college to coming out of school
and being around you guys, and I always talk about
what a great experience it was. And before I started that,
I remember people used to be like, are you sure

(05:39):
you want to go work with them? Because loud, you guys,
but rody in a great way, you know, because once
I got there, I think you'll never feel more protected
in the music business as I did when I was there.

Speaker 5 (05:50):
You know, happened to you?

Speaker 4 (05:52):
How was it?

Speaker 6 (05:53):
How was Angela back then? She has stories about you, guys,
but I just want to know how.

Speaker 2 (05:58):
Yeah, she definitely worked hard and you know, even like
dealing with us as individuals. You know, she was very
much hands on. I mean she used to get me
a lot of clothing deals, you know what I mean,
like with Tommy Hill and Varsity.

Speaker 3 (06:18):
Was working with everything. I was making sure everybody was
laced with.

Speaker 2 (06:22):
Right connected. She was like an A and R slash
publicist and everything else in the office.

Speaker 5 (06:29):
Always she was good people. She's good people because if
she wasn't good people, she already know the treatment.

Speaker 6 (06:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (06:35):
Yeah, you know, nobody ever was like when I tell
you everybody, no one was ever rude to me in
any way whatsoever. Like so when I always say that
was the best first job, and I feel like after
that things were so different, like you would think working
at R and B. Because after that I went to
go work for DiAngelo. When I left, that was nowhere

(06:58):
near I felt so unsafe there and I was like, damn,
I should have never left. Really yeah, it was awful
and I would spoiled because being there while I did work,
like I would be the first one in the office
and the last one to leave all the time.

Speaker 3 (07:11):
And I worked hard.

Speaker 1 (07:11):
But I also got treated really well, you know, I
would say that much.

Speaker 3 (07:15):
So thank you guys for that.

Speaker 2 (07:17):
Left to lay hands on somebody, you.

Speaker 4 (07:22):
Know, going to jail tonight.

Speaker 5 (07:23):
It's like, yeah, that's like you know, you know, brothers
only a phone call away sometimes.

Speaker 2 (07:30):
And we also watched your success, you know, we watched
you claim up that ladder, and you know, I must
say that you really kept it authentic. You know, you
just still the same Angela, you know what I'm saying.
With of course more expertise and more intellect, but definitely
you know, you kept it slid and grounded, you know

(07:50):
what I mean.

Speaker 1 (07:50):
We respect that, and so and so let's tell some
stories from back in the day now, because I want
people to also understand the importance in mathematics plays, because
I feel like that has to be celebrated. Also just
for you coming in as the DJ, and I know
you were pulled in a million different directions because you're
really like the official. Everybody ended up having to get
like DJ's because you couldn't be everywhere.

Speaker 5 (08:10):
They got to that point at once.

Speaker 1 (08:12):
But you started off as the DJ from Queens, which
is why you're the basket swordsman, because you're not from
Staten Island or Brooklyn, Queens, Queens.

Speaker 3 (08:22):
So how did all of that? And Jizu was the
first person you worked with?

Speaker 5 (08:26):
Yeah, Jizzu was the first person I worked with. I
knew his family because they lived like right around the
block for me basically, and I used to hang out.
I was like the younger god and like his cousin's
like life shoting them. I grew up under them. So
but I knew riz of first, Oh okay, yeah, because
I knew Riz from the from the from the rallies

(08:47):
at the parliaments. I didn't even know they was cousins. Okay,
So we used to go to the parliaments and when
I go there, you know, especially in Fort Green, you
know where all the gods and Medina are much meaner, right,
that's what they said, all right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
But you know, Rizzi used to be like with the
Brooklyn gods and like we was the younger brothers. Riz

(09:09):
is older than me, but we were still the younger brothers.
I was probably like one of the youngest at the
time because I'm like me and Meth the same age, right.

Speaker 3 (09:16):
And that was the youngest.

Speaker 5 (09:17):
Yeah okay, yeap so and Meth got me by like
six months, okay. So yeah, so I was always a
younger brother hanging out with older brothers. So some of
the old older brothers that I hung out with, some
of the brothers that Rizzia, the older brothers he hung
out with, they hung together. So while they over there
doing anything, We're doing our thing, whether we drinking forties, building,

(09:40):
you know, voming before you know, way before wool you know,
I was like fifteen at the time.

Speaker 1 (09:45):
Think about what forties was doing the community. I mean
everybody was drinking forties back then.

Speaker 5 (09:50):
Yeah, so much, just so big.

Speaker 3 (09:54):
I think they took a forty of water.

Speaker 5 (09:57):
Yeah right.

Speaker 1 (10:00):
And so you ended up really working on the Cold
Chilling tour Yeah, okay, yep.

Speaker 5 (10:04):
I started off with Jizz DJing for Jizza.

Speaker 1 (10:07):
What were those cold chilling days like? Because Jesse told
me they didn't get treated that.

Speaker 3 (10:12):
Well because Big Daddy came.

Speaker 5 (10:13):
Oh yeah, they got right there. Yeah, they got treated great.
But for me, I thought it was still great too,
because I'm around the people that influenced me and like
the people who I was a fan of, like from
g rap came. You know, going up to the office,
you've seen like you see Chante up up in there,
you see you know.

Speaker 3 (10:35):
Yeah, so it's still amazing. I know, Rock Sane Chante.

Speaker 1 (10:38):
Now, because we went on this trip together for an event,
I was like, I can't believe I'm here with Shante,
Like it's you know, the stuff like that is still
surreal when you think about it.

Speaker 5 (10:48):
Yeah, because that's like Big cis right there. That's that's
like Big cists now and like back in them days,
I was more in amazement. So even though you know
we went out there on the road and yeah, we
wasn't you know, getting the treatment that Jiz really deserved
at that time. I agree with that because he was
the genius.

Speaker 1 (11:05):
He was like, they wouldn't even let them in the
full office. Like but you know, I think everybody at
some point pays their dues in this business, like not
it's rare to step into a situation and.

Speaker 5 (11:17):
Be like yeah, from the door.

Speaker 3 (11:19):
The man especially back then. It's so different.

Speaker 1 (11:22):
Now people go viral and everybody's.

Speaker 5 (11:25):
Step they skip a lot of steps. They skip a
lot of steps because because even before I did the
you know with Jizz, right, you know, I was doing
park jams. So we was coming out DJing for free
in the park and Baisley projects, risking our lives, hooking
up to the light posts. None of us, none of
us was electricians at that time.

Speaker 3 (11:47):
That's crazy.

Speaker 5 (11:48):
Yeah, so we was hooking up. Then you gotta risk
your equipment between you know, beefs and gun fire and
you know.

Speaker 4 (11:56):
Somebody really multitasking and you really got to it.

Speaker 5 (12:00):
Yeah, you gotta love it. And somebody coming out another
DJ want to battle you for your equipment. That used
to happen too. Never lost my equipment, I'm gonna say
that never. But you'll get challenged, get challenged. It's like
all right.

Speaker 6 (12:16):
So when they would challenge you, they would just start
playing at the same time, like they would come and
set up, Like yeah, they.

Speaker 5 (12:21):
Would come set up, or sometimes dudes would actually have
the audacity to come with no equipment. It's like, so
I'm supposed to let you on my ship for my ship. Yeah,
So it was like Nah, we ain't doing that. It's
like you set something up and we do this.

Speaker 2 (12:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (12:38):
Now, Kapa, I always early on affiliated you with more
with ghost Face and Ray Kwan, you know, as part
of the crew, but you also were a mentor in
the group as well. So let's talk about Kappa Dina's
start with Wu Tang.

Speaker 2 (12:51):
I mean we started from little juveniles, man like early
in the days, with just a hobby that we picked
up in the lobby, you know what I mean. And
so we all grew up together. Sh Shallen, Paul Hill Stapleton, Brooklyn,
A lot of us from Brooklyn. I was born in Brooklyn,
bed style. Even with Jizza, like I met just in

(13:14):
the park. He was at fifty seven Park rapping with
my mentor, which was Scotty Waddy at the time from
the TVB the Bliff Brothers, and yeah, so I mean
we just been doing it that long since the grain,
you know what I mean. And a lot of brothers
at that time, you know, used to come around me
because I used to be always in the hood with

(13:36):
my little bongo. I used to play the bongo, they
called it a congo or something bongo and I used
to play that. And because they used to have the
mad Base and the staircase. That's how the staircase flow
came into effect. And we used to be in there.
And I remember the day when my man Raider Rutgers
first bought Meth to the staircase and he was like, Yo,

(13:59):
this is my man Cliff right here. You know what
I'm saying. He could rap too. I was like, well, okay,
let's hear him. And that's how I met Meth. And
we used to hang out every day and be rapping,
doing graffiti. I mean, we was living the culture. You
know what I'm saying. We was all fans of the
of a hip hop, all fans of the culture. We
was teaching each other. A lot of them say I

(14:21):
was a bigger inspiration on them, but you know we all.

Speaker 1 (14:27):
Got each yeah each other, No, absolutely, because I always
kind of also looked at you that way because I've
heard people say that Kappa was like a mentor for
some of the guys in the group.

Speaker 2 (14:36):
That's right.

Speaker 3 (14:37):
And so you talked about.

Speaker 1 (14:39):
How being in the studio and actually physically like getting
that energy. I'm thinking about the days of the WU
mansion you guys had.

Speaker 2 (14:47):
That's where all the magic happened, and that's where we
was in the studio the most, because we wasn't doing
the studios in the hood. We ain't had those studios
til later on, like like before the before the blow up.
You know what I'm saying. Riza had a spot up
on top of wagon to College Hill, the court, yeah yeah, yeah, Michelle, course, yeah,

(15:08):
he had a couple of spots yeah yeah, yeah, later on,
so you know, from there we had went to the mansion.
Just a few years later. You know, I was in
a hustle game, so yeah, I was incarcerated. But when
I came out, you know, brothers was like, Yo, we
gotta get Cap, Yo, we gotta get Cap. They called
me original at that time. We got to get originally,

(15:30):
you know what I'm saying. Because he was there from
the grain. You know what I'm saying, you always been there.
We're gonna go get him. And I ain't really want
to rap at that time either.

Speaker 3 (15:38):
You didn't What did you want to do?

Speaker 4 (15:40):
I want to.

Speaker 2 (15:44):
Actually I didn't want I just I didn't. I wanted
to work. I wanted to get a job, you know,
because I yeah, because I was in and out of
the hustle game. Hard you know what I'm saying. So
I was going down before my brothers was even you know,
really experiencing that kind of life. So when I came home, I,
like I said, I just wanted to be a productive citizen.

(16:06):
I got a security guard job in the project. I
was a security guard for housing.

Speaker 7 (16:11):
Part of everybody knew you were already look at the
security guard.

Speaker 2 (16:22):
And you got you know, if it wasn't for you, God,
because you got kept coming to my job every day.
He was coming to my job, coming to my job,
trying to get me to go to the studio. I
used to be like, nah, I'm good, I'm good. And
one day I went I went to check Rizzard out.
He was there for Dolo and I heard the ice
cream song. It was just it was just Ray and

(16:42):
Ghosts on the song that It wasn't no hook or
nothing like that. So Riz was like, YO, give me
sixteen bars. I was like, what's sixteen bars? I ain't
with sixteen bars, So I dropped that. I drive. He said,
just just rad and I'll tell you when it stopped.

Speaker 4 (17:01):
So he was just off the dome just I wrote it.

Speaker 2 (17:04):
I wrote it right now, And I really wasn't righting.
Like I said, I wasn't really part of it, and
I just I wrote it though, because I used to
write rhymes bars bars, bars bars, like when the wards
just going just going. I never and I did that
ice cream verse and Meth came in fifteen minutes later

(17:28):
and did that hook, and I was still looking at
him in amazement. I was like, yo, like this is amazing,
Like what's going on here? Because I didn't want to
get on somebody product and mess up they product. They
was professionals to me, and I looked at him as professionals.
I seen them when I was incarcerated on the TV.
They was like, yeah, that's your man's I was like, yeah, yo,

(17:48):
they doing it big yo. Word up. So I ain't
you know, I ain't never thought I was going to
be a part of that. And I was good with that. Yeah,
but that ice cream landed and they couldn't understand it,
and yeah, this was like, Yo, this is a single.
I was like, all right, y'all, y'all have fun.

Speaker 4 (18:03):
With I gotta go to work.

Speaker 3 (18:06):
Break.

Speaker 2 (18:07):
I still didn't get it. And the and the ill part,
the ill part about all of that, this is a
true story, yo. I was like so okay, this is
a single. He was like, yeah, we're going to shoot
a video. I was like in front of people. I
was like, yo, for real, for real. The whole time
I was thinking, Yo, how can I run away?

Speaker 5 (18:28):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (18:28):
You wasn't used to that.

Speaker 2 (18:30):
Yeah, I didn't want to do it. I was like,
I was really trying to run away.

Speaker 4 (18:33):
I was in front of people.

Speaker 2 (18:35):
Twenty fifth Street, yoo run Yeah, I was show up
and I'm glad I did, though. Man, they you know,
it was an epic moment. And that's how my, you know,
that's how my.

Speaker 1 (18:53):
That's how I was instrumental for you too.

Speaker 5 (18:58):
Because yeah, because that was your first joint. But that's
the joint that made me want to produce because I
seen when Rizzon made that beat.

Speaker 3 (19:08):
Wow, that's the type of magic.

Speaker 2 (19:11):
Yo.

Speaker 4 (19:11):
Yo, you were there when he made that beat from scratch.

Speaker 5 (19:14):
From scratch, because we was I remember he was that
Michelle caught. We was you know, Risin was working all day.
He was getting a little burned down and he was like, yo,
I need a break. So I remember it was me
and him gohos to math. We went to the movies.
After we came back from the movies, you know. You
know that was the days still forty ounce days and
smoking days, and you know, you bring a forty ounce
in the dead. Yeah. So when we got back, So

(19:40):
when we got back to the to the spot, Rizon
went right to work. You know, I was still a
little nice, but I'm peeping him make the joint, you know.
And by seven o'clock in the morning when he finished,
ice cream was blowing out them speakers.

Speaker 6 (19:53):
I was like, Yo, what ain't that what sidebar? What
movie had you? Do you remember what movie?

Speaker 4 (19:57):
Because I wonder if that inspire at all, Like I don't.

Speaker 5 (19:59):
I don't remember what movie it was. I really don't,
But I just that beat because I was on the knockout,
like you know, I was on the knockout. I was nice,
and I'm waking up here and it and I'm looking
I see him working because could see him in the
room because he's in a pre production room and that
was the spot, one of the spots that got flooded.
So downstairs was the full basement with the full studio,

(20:23):
and I just remember, like when that beat was coming
out in the morning, I got up right into the room.
I was like, Yo, that's that same joint. You was
working on last night. He was like yeah, I was like, yo,
how you made that? And he started breaking it down.
He broke down the you know, the ASR ten. After that,
I went they caught one and that's when I started producing.
So yeah, it was ice cream.

Speaker 1 (20:44):
See like that song definitely GEMP started a lot for
both of you.

Speaker 3 (20:47):
That's crazy to not even.

Speaker 1 (20:49):
Know each other, like you know that, but the ASR
ten and then I remember back then everybody had a
s P twelve hundred or ASR ten because.

Speaker 3 (20:57):
That worked in the office.

Speaker 4 (20:58):
So what are these, I don't know, the equipment that
you used to.

Speaker 5 (21:01):
Produce, yeah, or EPs. True Mass had an EPs eight. Yeah,
well the eight oh eight really that was a major
piece too. Yeah it was. But I think like for
me eight o eights you could get the eight o
eight sounds. I don't you know, I didn't. I didn't
have it eight oh eight, and I don't you know
Rizzil probably had one, but I know he used to

(21:21):
rock the s P twelve, The Rigel rocked everything. You know,
EPs curves well, fourth fourth was the curves well, but
mainly me, Rizzle and the Weft.

Speaker 1 (21:29):
Disciple, True Master, you know, all of all the producers.
Now I want to talk about that because we talked
about AI and how you realize that technology can be
important and to go for it, just like when you said, okay,
we got to start using different things like serato instead
of having to carry vinyl.

Speaker 3 (21:46):
So when it comes to.

Speaker 1 (21:47):
Producing, right, it made things a lot simpler to not
have to have. But how is that for you, Like,
do you still go back to the ASR ten and
the SP twelve hundred. Do you think there's value in
that or do you feel like, well, we've moved technology
wise so far past that it's not even necessary.

Speaker 5 (22:02):
Oh no, I still use the AIRSR ten, but I
use it differently. So now like back when I first
started using the ASR ten, I was sampling, I was
chopping my beats, and I would consider myself then not
really a producer. I would say I was a beat maker.
I made a lot of beats and a lot of
dope beats. Now I'm a producer. I understand arrangement songs,

(22:24):
you know, I understand it all. And now I don't sample.
If I sample, I sample me, okay, like I make
what I do. I make my own sample. Then I
start working from there. So I run it into the
ASR ten and let it come out because it's a
certain warmth to a certain sound. And you know, I
play a lot of stuff, but then I'll get like

(22:46):
with this album, matter of fact, I got something for y'all.
Matter of fact.

Speaker 3 (22:48):
Okay, yeah, it's like limited edition.

Speaker 5 (22:53):
Limited edition. It's the limited edition.

Speaker 3 (22:55):
I know, that's right.

Speaker 1 (22:56):
See this is what is.

Speaker 3 (23:01):
So look at how beautiful.

Speaker 5 (23:07):
To each one. Each cover is totally different to the insides.

Speaker 2 (23:13):
You know.

Speaker 4 (23:13):
I love this.

Speaker 1 (23:15):
So yep, and to be clear from mathematics is and
I know we always got to bring this up. He's
the one that designed the Wu Tang logo that iconic.

Speaker 4 (23:25):
Can we get a little backstory on that and like
how that came about?

Speaker 5 (23:29):
Well, I always did you know, I drew I did graffiti.
Brothers knew it. I used to carry a black book
with me too, so a lot of times, like being
with Jizo used to be hanging out, you know, I
would sketch certain things in my black book. And we
was talking about, you know, in the beginning of formulating
Wou Chang having something that would capture everybody eyes, something

(23:50):
that people could see, like some type of symbol. So
I did original stickers for him when he was on
Tommy Boy. So when was on Tommy Boys, Prince Raki,
I did his original stickers and I thought he wanted
me to do something like Prince Raquin or something like that.
He's like, nah, I want you to do Woo Chang.
Put Wouchang on the stickers. So I was like, Woo Chang.

(24:11):
I said, that's dope because we love karate flicks. But
I didn't really get it at the time. So I drew,
you know, Woo Tang. I put the sword there, put
the ying and yang in there, and those was his
first stickers. So when we started doing the Woo Tang thing,
and you know, we was talking about different designs, I
was always drawing, so I drew. I drew a w
one time with the hand coming out holding the head

(24:34):
because he was always talking about taking heads. Yeah, always
talk about stuff like that. So how it actually really
came into existence, I was working at the time. I
went back to work. This was after cold chilling, and
I was a carpenter.

Speaker 1 (24:49):
You know that's still handy to this day.

Speaker 5 (24:54):
Yeah, yeah, you know, my pops was a carpenter and
when he's seen things, wasn't going well for me. He
actually bought me you back. He's like, nah, come with me,
come over with me. So I was.

Speaker 3 (25:02):
Jesus was a carpenter.

Speaker 4 (25:04):
That's the fact.

Speaker 5 (25:04):
Jesus was, and I was working. I was working at
two undid Back Street. Matter of fact.

Speaker 1 (25:11):
Oh that's right where all the labels. Def Jam was
right there too.

Speaker 5 (25:15):
Def Jam was down the block. Yeah, E one is
in there now, okay, right, s Obs is downstairs, right right.
I came home from work one day and Wherezza called me.
He caught me coming in the door. You know, this
is before like the cell phones. Everybody had cell phone
called the house phone.

Speaker 2 (25:34):
Right.

Speaker 5 (25:34):
I heard the phone ringing, so you know, I go
in the kitchen. I answer the phone. It's he's like, yo,
you know, I'm getting this joint printed up tomorrow. I
need I need a logo, but I needed by tomorrow.
So I was like tomorrow, right, I'm just getting in right.
I'm like, I bet, I said, but you're gonna have
to come pick it up for my job. So he's like,
all right, where you at? So I told where I

(25:55):
was at. So I got off the phone, I went
across the street. I was and forty projects at the time,
right right off the south road. I went across the
street to one hundred and sixty to the store, got
me a cold forty ounce.

Speaker 3 (26:08):
Here we go.

Speaker 4 (26:13):
All the magic happens when it comes out.

Speaker 5 (26:15):
Yeah yeah, with a forty ounce, right, and then I
had some chocolate tie because once you want to suthing,
they used to have chocolate tie back in the days.
So I had some chocolate tarp. I browe me a
Philly blunt, right, and you know phillies burned fast. But yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I smoked me, you know, smoked the Philly blunt,

(26:35):
drinking my forty and I actually sat on the floor
and drew it on the floor because I was more
comfortable drawing on the floor. Okay, so I drew it
on the floor. When I drew it, you know, it
was getting late. I'm looking at it. I'm like, yo,
this gotta be it because I'm going to bed and
I'll go to work.

Speaker 4 (26:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (26:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (26:54):
So the next day I'm at work working, right, you know,
my pops is there, the other workers is there. I'm
the youngest on the job. Everybody's grown men.

Speaker 4 (27:04):
That's a theme too. You are going to be the youngest.

Speaker 5 (27:06):
Yeah, yeah, you're always the youngest. And the elevator than
doors open up, power Rizza divine and ghosts come walking
out the elevator. The whole site kind of just stopped.
Everybody looking like who is these dudes? Right? Then? You

(27:26):
know how they coming. They come with the hoodies, the Thames,
you know, cam O thug out and all that. But
I see him, I'm like, okay, hold on, give me
one second, so I have to run back to my
little cubby wole. I had my black book. I came,
I bought it, showed it to him.

Speaker 4 (27:39):
Were you nervous when you showed it to them?

Speaker 5 (27:41):
Nah? Okay, okay, yeah, so you know I showed it
to him. They opened it up. No, I opened it
up and I showed him and I gave him the page.
So I seen like Rizza looked at it, shook his head,
He passed it down, took the vine, looked up and
shook his head. They all went down the line and
ship the past and it is like, yeah, this is it.

Speaker 4 (28:03):
And it was one shot.

Speaker 3 (28:05):
Things like that don't happen today.

Speaker 1 (28:06):
First of all, somebody can't call you and be like
I need a logo, but I need it by tomorrow.

Speaker 4 (28:10):
And you get on, you sit on like freestyle like
I mean.

Speaker 3 (28:13):
Yeah, that's that's amazing.

Speaker 1 (28:15):
And I love the detail in it because when you
drew it, did you know like this is amazing, because
sometimes we don't know how amazing something is.

Speaker 5 (28:24):
No, I didn't. I just looked at it like it's
another piece, you know, it's another piece of art that
I did. I had no idea it was going to
be what it was going to be.

Speaker 1 (28:35):
The most iconic logo and hip hop probably in music period.
Can you think of an a logo that is anywhere
near that. I just think that's something that people even
if you didn't grow up listening to Wu Tang and
you're a kid now you know that.

Speaker 5 (28:49):
W Yeah, that's true. I remember Ray told me one time,
He's like, yeah, I was in the airport. I've seen
this dude. He had the WU logo chatting on his
face that yeah. He said, you threw youre yeah yeah,
told me like no, he walked right past me. He
didn't know who I was.

Speaker 4 (29:10):
But he got this, but he got the logo on
his face. But that's what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (29:14):
That's what makes something I kind of that a clothing
line that has that logo because people buy that clothing
from like urban outfitters, you know what I'm saying, from everywhere,
like how would look? And I see kids wearing it,
and I know they probably are not that verse. You know,
everybody don't know it, but everybody's wearing it because that
brand can stand by itself. Now, another thing that we

(29:37):
talked about previously. Remember park Hill day, okay, and you
remember I had Eminem come out, So I remember that, yo,
So we got to talk about that.

Speaker 4 (29:49):
Raised I don't know this story.

Speaker 5 (29:50):
Well, he was Reine though, yeah, so but you don't
want because I remember he called me one day.

Speaker 3 (29:57):
Yes, So here's what happened.

Speaker 1 (29:58):
This was before Eminem was and Paul was managing him, right,
So look, so I'll tell the full.

Speaker 3 (30:05):
Story because I don't want to give nobody privs. But anyway,
I used to.

Speaker 1 (30:08):
Date this guy and he he was cool with Eminem
and so he introduced me to you know them and
Paul Rosenberg and everything, and so I was like, he's dope.
I saw him perform at Lyricist Lounge and I know
you guys are doing Lyricists Lounge too. We'll talk about
that in a hot second. But lyricists lounge was like
where people were freestyle. They would wrap out kind of

(30:30):
like eight mile Yes, and so Eminem would come in
there and say the craziest stuff. So I was like, okay,
we got park Hill Day coming up. Park Hill Day
was in Staten Island. It was a big event. It
was free for the community, which you know, maybe we
need to do another one, but it.

Speaker 3 (30:43):
Was free for the community.

Speaker 1 (30:44):
So it would always be like black Moon would come out,
you know, mob deep like all the friends of Wu Tang,
and so I had Eminem come early and open because
I was like, look, I'm gonna get you on this,
you know whatever, because he's dope and I knew nobody
people like didn't know him like that.

Speaker 3 (30:58):
So he came out and.

Speaker 1 (31:00):
Performed, and I remember after where they were like, yo,
he was dope and that was that, and I was like,
y'all should sign him. I didn't know anything about that though,
because I was super young, and I was like, you
guys should sign him. And they were excited, like that
was one of the most exciting things, you know, for
him back then to meet everybody and for people to
be like, yo, that kid is really really dope and
Matthew always talk about like, man, I got his demo.

Speaker 5 (31:23):
Yeah, and I didn't know and then I just remember.
The main thing I remembered was, I think it was
a little bit later when he had my name is
when that came out. He called the crib and he
was trying to he wanted a beat for me. I
was like, oh, yeah, definitely, let's do it. And I

(31:46):
remember I said, I'm gonna I give you the office number.
Call up. They let them set it up. I gave
him the office number. I never heard nothing after that,
So I don't know what happened. I don't know what happened,
but I think you was the one who actually gave him, Yeah,
my number.

Speaker 1 (32:02):
I was like this, I was really going hard. But
that's why we still have a relationships to this day.

Speaker 5 (32:06):
Yeah, I wish we would have just I should never
sit in our quarter office.

Speaker 4 (32:10):
I should have been like between us, Yeah, you do
the right thing.

Speaker 2 (32:14):
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 5 (32:14):
I don't know what happened, but.

Speaker 1 (32:16):
Just think about like those you know, early days, there's
a lot of people y'all came across that ended up,
you know, blowing up afterwards because Wu Tang. I think
there were so many of y'all too, even just aside
from the group, just all of the like offshoots and
you know, Killer Army, Sons.

Speaker 3 (32:34):
A man, Yeah, kill a priest, Yeah, kill a priest.

Speaker 5 (32:37):
Yeh sh the Grave Diggers, Braves.

Speaker 1 (32:41):
It really like sprouted off like a whole bunch of
different things. And even for you capt it out of
the Pillage that was your first solo album, yeah ninety eight.
I still have my Pillage T shirt at home. I
keep all those things. Those are like things that people
aren't going to have that history, and you know, for
somebody who never wanted to be in the spotlight like that,

(33:02):
it's interesting. I saw Rizzard was talking about this one
day when he was like somebody asked him in an interview.
They were like, yeah, you know, Kappa is driving a cab,
and he was like, one day he's driving a cab,
next day he's driving a Bends cabin.

Speaker 3 (33:14):
Is just a unique individual.

Speaker 1 (33:18):
And I saw that at one point you were like,
I just don't even I want to give up all
my material goods, Like talk to me about what.

Speaker 4 (33:25):
Was going on.

Speaker 2 (33:27):
I mean, you know, to me, it's just all about
staying grounded. You know. I never let the the fame
rule my name. You know what I'm saying. I'm about
you know I'm about God. I'm a spiritual man. I see,
I've been there, done that, you know what I'm saying.
And I'm just grateful to still be able to contribute

(33:49):
anything to the people. You know, wos for the children,
and you know, I just I just want to share
myself with the with the empire man like you know,
play my part and play my role to the best
of my ability. But at the same time, I don't
want to lose myself in the music. I don't want

(34:10):
to lose who I am. You know what I'm saying
that the man that you know behind the brand. You
know what I'm saying, Like, I just want to be
me and be accepted for me. So that way, whether
I'm up or down, you still know me for who
I am. You know what I'm saying. Don't let all
the glitter and glamour define who I am as a person.

Speaker 3 (34:32):
Did you feel like you ever lost yourself?

Speaker 2 (34:35):
You know, because I never. I never let myself go.
I mean, you know, we deal with depression and certain
stresses in the game because you're making transitions, just like
you going from a child to a teenager, from a
teenager to a young adult. You know, those are transitions.
You know, I've tried marriage, you know, I had children,

(34:58):
and you know, these different aspects of life, you know,
moving around from place to place. I lived in Chicago,
I lived in Arizona, you know, in Pennsylvania. And I
was always able to maintain and keep myself grounded by
not forgetting where I come from, you know what I mean.
So that's important to me, you know, just being able

(35:21):
to live off the principles of life. You know. And
I named my company after the same way that I think.
My company is called God Love Family. That's my clothing line,
God love Family in that order, because you got to
put God first in everything you do, you know what
I'm saying. So it's God, then love, and then family.
There's nothing else because outside of that, you know, everything

(35:43):
else is temporary, because when you leave here, that's all
you gonna have is God loving family. You ain't taking
none of this with you. Your contribution to the world that's
already set, like you said, my Pillage album, that's already
set in stone. You know, they can't nobody can't take
that from me. I did it.

Speaker 5 (36:02):
I had a gold album.

Speaker 2 (36:03):
It was successful. I did it in two weeks.

Speaker 5 (36:05):
Some people called me up, Oh you did it in
two weeks.

Speaker 2 (36:08):
Two weeks gold album. To me, that broke a wool
Tang record. But they don't talk about that, and I
don't mind me.

Speaker 1 (36:13):
I didn't realize because I think I went there. I
remember slang editorial run hit songs. After that album. I
was like, yeah, that's why I feel like I might
have got a little shot. You know how people used
to read the credits and you'd be so hyped to
see you and thank you.

Speaker 3 (36:29):
I think I got a date.

Speaker 1 (36:30):
I tried never to forget that.

Speaker 5 (36:34):
I do that.

Speaker 2 (36:35):
I still do it too.

Speaker 3 (36:37):
I still thank you.

Speaker 5 (36:41):
Because for one, yeah, you want to show your appreciation
of others that actually helped you do this, you know,
and even with cat right the pillage my first that
was the first joint that I made on the Wouchang cut,
which one, oh, Donald, that's the first time I made

(37:05):
the cut on the woul Tang problem.

Speaker 3 (37:07):
Okay, did you know that?

Speaker 2 (37:08):
Cap No? I did?

Speaker 3 (37:09):
See we learning because everybody's just working.

Speaker 5 (37:13):
Yeah, look, power Power hooked me up. My first round
I ever did was a remix of some jungle Joint
that was overseas Okay. Then I did the NFL Jams
with Ghosts.

Speaker 3 (37:23):
Oh you know what's crazy.

Speaker 1 (37:25):
So Scotty, who owns the studio where I do my
podcast from, he was that character music. They did that
NFL Jams compilation album where they paired up hip hop
artists with NFL players, and you did one of the
songs on there.

Speaker 5 (37:37):
That goals and Andre Bison.

Speaker 3 (37:39):
Yep, it's crazy.

Speaker 5 (37:41):
That got me to my first super Bowl.

Speaker 2 (37:44):
Just thinking about by the success popped out from one
can of paint.

Speaker 5 (37:49):
Yeah right, but but but the pillage I actually put
that album together. I see quenched the album. I got
the like we need yeah, and I never did it before.
So I'm like, I you know what I mean. I said,
I'll be up there.

Speaker 2 (38:06):
The Prince did the some of the ad libs and
all of that. But on the Something, yeah, that's when
I listened to it. You know, it was one prob
was like killing all, raping what we wanted. That's what.

Speaker 5 (38:21):
I was like, whoa, you know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (38:27):
But you know, the album was such a success.

Speaker 3 (38:31):
Sequence I was like, whoa.

Speaker 2 (38:37):
I was grateful for everybody's participation and it was the
pilbum still got me to that is true to this day,
thirty years later. I'm still touring. I just came from
South America. I did two tours over there. I just
for that. I was all through Europe. So yeah, I'm
still doing shows. Man. I just came from the David

(38:57):
Chappelle show out there with with a Ghosts and Tyler.

Speaker 1 (39:04):
Oh yeah, I tell you did the people party. Yeah,
that's how you do a Winter Wards. That's everybody's top
ten all time. Yeah, people say it, people always talk
about that, but.

Speaker 2 (39:18):
I don't know that was because to me, I was
the first one to do a long dart like.

Speaker 3 (39:22):
That and it kind of fades out.

Speaker 2 (39:24):
The whole song kind of faded me out on that
because they acting like yo, hold on, man.

Speaker 3 (39:29):
Was there more after that that we didn't hear because
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (39:35):
I don't so you know, a lot of dark Man
was on that was on the on that Win Awards
before me.

Speaker 3 (39:50):
Oh wow.

Speaker 2 (39:51):
So when I came in the studio and did that,
then his verse got knocked off and that's how we
used to do it at that time. But I wouldn't
have made it there. That would have been a lot
of dok Man on that song.

Speaker 3 (40:03):
Oh wow, that's good.

Speaker 1 (40:04):
That sucks again, knocked off too, because it happened all
the time, you know. But that's you got to show
up because you think you did these verses and you
don't know what's gonna make it. Sometimes you don't know
to the album come out.

Speaker 2 (40:14):
That's why it's witty, unpredictable talent.

Speaker 5 (40:18):
Look, look, look, or you bring a beat to the
studio and somebody get on your giant rocket and then
you hear that verse on another record, that beat.

Speaker 2 (40:28):
Like the way hold up. I heard another version the
run from Ghosts Jada Kids. I wasn't you know?

Speaker 1 (40:41):
Yeah, they did well mathematics as a beat maker, did
you get credit in the production as because you said
you weren't necessarily a producer?

Speaker 5 (40:53):
No, I got credit, Okay, get credit, but me growing
and developing with music, I look back now like I
was a beat maker. Yeah, like I was considered a producer,
Like when you hear joints like Cobra, Clutch and Publicity,
I was considered producer. But I'm listening now, it's like
now I made some banging beats.

Speaker 1 (41:10):
Yeah you did, and this new album we haven't even
talked about that. Yet there's some banging beats on this
new album too.

Speaker 4 (41:16):
You and I both have a favorite.

Speaker 3 (41:18):
We like Claudine and I like World Lion, but of
course we like Mandingo, even the intro.

Speaker 1 (41:26):
And you know, you started to inter with Corrupt and
Rob McDaniel's legends and this as well. And it also
made me think about people we've lost, like he's like
r I P Nate Dog r P o dB. Just
think about during this period of time that you guys
have been in this game.

Speaker 3 (41:42):
You know, we've.

Speaker 1 (41:43):
Suffered a lot of losses and hip hop and it
feels like it's just something even now, so many young artists,
you know, gone, And I even think about that day,
you know, we're Dirty.

Speaker 3 (41:53):
There was a concert, yeah, the.

Speaker 5 (41:55):
Night before I think it was in Jersey, Jersey, ye
at the Medlandlands Arena.

Speaker 1 (42:00):
At the Meadowlands, and I was I was at the concert.
I was doing some interviews like backstage or whatever, and
Dirty didn't show up, but he did catch like a
later fight and then go to the studio and that
was like a horrific day.

Speaker 3 (42:11):
I'll never forget that day. Do you remember where you
were when you heard the nose?

Speaker 5 (42:16):
Of course, because after that. After that day, I just remember, like,
you know, he missed the show and we was all
going to go to the studio that day, you know
and talk to him like yo. And I just remember
like we had a late night. I got home up late.
I got up, got up late. So when I got up,
it was seven. Seven called me right, and I remember,

(42:38):
you know, I love grits. I had just made me
some grits and I put the grits in the bowl
and everything, and seven called me. So when I answered
the phone, I was like, yo, seven was good. And
then he was like, well, you know, real silent. I
can't even explain it. It just was kind of like damn,
like I knew something was Then he said he didn't

(43:01):
even say peace. He said you standing up or you
sitting down. So I was like, I'm standing up. He's like, bro,
I'm gonna need you to sit down. So I sat
down because you know, you know seven and seven he's
not going to play a round. He don't play, you
know what I mean. So I sat down and when

(43:24):
he told me he said, yo, dirty past I just
remember I hit me just like I never even ate
the bowl of gritz.

Speaker 2 (43:33):
Never.

Speaker 5 (43:34):
It's like I yeah, that just kind of yeah, I remember, yeah,
I definitely remember then. I remember I went to the
studio because that's when we moved to the thirty fourth Street.
But when I went up there, I seen like there
was a lot of cars out there, the news and
all that. So I just I just made a U
turn and went back home, you know.

Speaker 3 (43:53):
I was you know, yeah, you remember where you were
a kapa when you heard.

Speaker 2 (43:58):
I was on the island now in park Hill and
I got the call. I probably may have been I
forgot who called me, and may it may have been cold,
so somebody. I don't know, but I quickly just went
right over there. So I was up there. When I
got to the studio, he was still laying on the floor,

(44:19):
you know what I mean, he was just laying there
and it was just like, yeah, that was that was
that was crazy. You know. I just started praying. I
was praying and there you know, ghosts came in, you know,
we was we was all very emotional, right, it was
emotional time, and yeah that's that's I just was there

(44:44):
and I just stayed there too. To they today, so
everybody started leaving word, but but he his body was
there for a long time, just just laying there like
I don't know why they didn't.

Speaker 3 (44:59):
I guess you know it was a scene, right investigation.

Speaker 2 (45:04):
Yeah yeah, but but yeah he was just right there, man,
laid out in the studio, you know. But always look
at it like, you know, he's still with us.

Speaker 1 (45:14):
Man.

Speaker 2 (45:15):
He transitioned on his time, and he did it his way,
you know what I mean. And that's that's something you know,
to to live by. You gotta live life your way man, good, good,
order bad, because at the end of the day, you know,
you you gotta be happy. You gotta make yourself happy first,

(45:35):
and you know, in order to make other people happy
or to feel any kind of ways, just vib It
was a vibe man. We love you.

Speaker 1 (45:43):
Dirty right, and what a special unique talent that I
think nobody will ever be able to recreate.

Speaker 3 (45:50):
And his kids.

Speaker 1 (45:51):
Though, we actually his kids some of them are doing music.
Matth your son is here today.

Speaker 5 (45:57):
Yeah, yeah, he's doing music. He's doing He actually coped
with one of the joints of me Warriors too Coolie.

Speaker 1 (46:04):
The single another single, Okay, was he the one that
said Benny the Butcher listen. Sometimes you need that though,
because your kids will put you up on things.

Speaker 5 (46:13):
Oh yeah, yeah, they put you off keep you young, Yeah,
they keep you young. They definitely do.

Speaker 3 (46:17):
Like what are some things that your son has taught you?

Speaker 5 (46:21):
Or always to listen, not just because I could tell him,
like sometimes he'll tell you. I try to break things
down for him musically because I want him to get
it quicker than I got it, you know, like listen
to this, or listen to catch the instruments or whatever.
But he has a younger year and as far as

(46:45):
like with the technology or certain things that you would
do with music today that he does that'll give it
a certain flair to it. I had to learn to
listen to him too, because anything music, that's what I do.
That I listen to music, it becomes anything in music.
I'm a student. I'm a student first and foremost. Even

(47:06):
in the making of this album, it's like one of
like you said, you love Claudine. That's the song that
actually the first song I made for this album.

Speaker 1 (47:15):
And that reminds me of like especially you know, ghost
Face when he gets emotional and.

Speaker 5 (47:20):
He's so The crazy thing about that is the night
I made that record. My mom's past so and I
grew up in a house that was full of music
for my pops, my moms, my brothers and sisters. Because
I'm the youngest, I'm the youngest son. I have one
youngest sister. Yeah, but I had a lot of older brothers.

(47:45):
So music was always being played. And my mother loved music.
And it's like the night she returned, I just remember
I went downstairs into my studio and you know, I
was by myself, and I just played all the a
lot of not all the joints, but a lot of joints.
She used to listen to my young like from Solomon
Burke to Al Green and you know Jackie Wilson like

(48:06):
she's you know, she loves Stevie Wonder. And I'm sitting there,
I'm going through it and I'm like, you know what,
I gotta do something. I feel like I got to
let something out. So I started working on the track
and I started Claudeine.

Speaker 3 (48:20):
Right.

Speaker 5 (48:20):
So as I'm making Claudeine and I'm you know, I
come back the next day and I'm listening to it.
I'm like, you know, now I can listen to it,
you know, more subjectively now. So as I'm listening, I'm like,
this is dope. I like this, I can do something
with this, and I wanted because she always loved like
strong soul singers. So Nicole Bust came the thought because

(48:43):
she had you know, I always loved her voice from
when she did the Cream Joint. So I called. I
didn't even have her number. I followed her on Instagram.
I hit her up on Instagram and she hit me
right back, so then you know, we exchanged numbers. We
called each other. We talked and I said, listen, I
got this track I would love to get you on.
I'm gonna send it to you. She's like, yeah, send it,

(49:05):
of course. So I sent it to her. She listened
to it and she's like, I love it. She said,
do you mind if I do something to it? Now,
That's why I said with growth. Back in the days,
I'd be like, no, it's my track I'm doing. But
now I'm like, nah, don't mind. Let me let me
hear what you got because now I understand, well, let
me listen, let me hear from judge shut.

Speaker 3 (49:24):
It down because is key? I think, yeah it is.

Speaker 5 (49:28):
Because when she sent it back and it had that
change in it, that that then the progression she got
in it. I'm like Whoa took it to another level,
took it to another level. I was like, this is
what it needed. So then we talked about it, you know,
and I said, the two people I think I have
a mind for this track is mehing ghost So when

(49:50):
I sent it to Ghosts, Ghosts loved it off top.
But we ain't getting a chance to talk about it.
But we was on the same page. I guess he
felt it because he came with the verse about his
mom's I was like.

Speaker 3 (50:04):
Wow, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 5 (50:06):
Then me and him and then Cod got on when
we got on the phone, Yeah, because.

Speaker 1 (50:11):
There's the whole vibe when people could really feel what
you feel.

Speaker 4 (50:14):
Talk about it.

Speaker 5 (50:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (50:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (50:16):
And then when she came with the hook, and it
was like one one for the lovers, two for the
ones we lost because Claudine, you know, felt Black Exportation
to me felt like home. It felt like that, you
know what I mean. So I didn't want to be
a totally sad song. And I knew Meth, you know,

(50:38):
he's the ladies man and he's gonna come from another.

Speaker 7 (50:40):
And because he's an MC, he wanted to appreciate it
for his you know, but he can do you know
what I mean?

Speaker 5 (50:51):
And he does it great, and when he heard it,
he's already know what to do with it, and he
did his verse right. So one is for the lovers,
and that's Cordeene as the white figure, and then you
get the mother figure from Ghosts and she says two
is for the ones we lost. So you know, that's

(51:12):
why the hook is like that. That's why ghoals. You know,
some people I remember when it first came out, some
people it's like, well, why is it this and then that?

Speaker 2 (51:18):
Right?

Speaker 5 (51:19):
But they didn't understand. It's like it's a completion of
you know, of the woman Claudeen in totality.

Speaker 6 (51:26):
You may have said this already. Why is it called Claudeen?
Where did you come up with the name for it?

Speaker 5 (51:31):
Because you know it's Claudeene is from the Black Exportation movie. Gotcha?
And people need to.

Speaker 1 (51:38):
Go back and see a lot of these old movies
for context.

Speaker 3 (51:41):
Yeah, just you know, because also they're just amazing.

Speaker 5 (51:44):
Yeah they are.

Speaker 2 (51:46):
We got it.

Speaker 3 (51:46):
We should have a night.

Speaker 4 (51:47):
Sure, maybe we should drink a forty. I don't want
to do that.

Speaker 3 (51:52):
Can you still find those?

Speaker 4 (51:54):
I'm sure we can't.

Speaker 5 (51:55):
Look, I don't even want to do that.

Speaker 2 (51:57):
No, more.

Speaker 5 (52:01):
You can have a corona, you know what.

Speaker 4 (52:05):
Forty adjacent.

Speaker 3 (52:07):
But we get the feeling from the song. So I
do appreciate that.

Speaker 1 (52:10):
Yeah, you know, and imagine like something like that happens
and you go and put yourself in your work and
immerse yourself and that that's a good therapeutic thing to do.

Speaker 5 (52:20):
Yeah, it felt like it was therapeutic. It was definitely
is and it set it off. It set off this album,
and once I created that, it was like, Okay, everything
now that I'm making for this project has to be
of this value. It set the bar and higher. And because,
like I said, Claudine, that's why I was like, ah,

(52:41):
it took me back to when I was growing up
watching the movies. So a lot of the songs on
here are either named after Blaxplortation movies or Karate movies.

Speaker 4 (52:50):
I definitely thought the Karate theme you gotta well and ka.

Speaker 3 (52:53):
But what about you? What have you learned from your kids?

Speaker 1 (52:55):
Like, what's something that you would say they've taught you
being a dad?

Speaker 2 (53:00):
I mean they just taught me, you know, to just
keep striving, you know. I mean my children are very innovative,
you know, I just wanted them to always be able
to reach for their goals. You know. So they all
finished school, they all worked, they got jobs, you know

(53:21):
what I'm saying. So it's like me looking at a
reflection of myself. I see me and all my children.
I mean, and you know I got to set a triplets.

Speaker 4 (53:31):
Oh wow, you know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (53:34):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, they're twenty two years old and my youngest.

Speaker 3 (53:41):
It's great.

Speaker 2 (53:41):
At a time, it was a hard job.

Speaker 4 (53:46):
Is a lot, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (53:48):
Everything is about the grind, you know. And thanks to
Gerba for for that year of sponsorship. Gerba, whenever you
have more than one one or two children, I mean
two or three children, they you know, they reach out
to you, ched out and they supported me for that
first year they I mean, because I used to go

(54:10):
into the supermarket and have to take all the milk
off the shelf because my seeds they didn't you know,
they didn't drink a whole milk and all that infantle stuff.
So I had to get them rice milk.

Speaker 4 (54:26):
People do that now, but people weren't doing that.

Speaker 2 (54:28):
I had to get it all of it off the shells.
Vingom because you know, everything is in threes. You know
how hard it is when you're getting up. You got
a child and you got to heat the bottle up.
I had to do three they all got up, three
diapers to change everything. Everything.

Speaker 3 (54:47):
That is like a bootcare.

Speaker 2 (54:49):
It's like it's sleep didn't mean nothing to me no more.
I didn't even know. It's like I had to just
fall out. I had to fall out, you know. I
I had a picture and in one of the magazines
it could have been a double x L with my triplets.
There's there's a picture in there, and I had them
all in my arm and I was sleep. And that's

(55:11):
that's how I used to have them. I used to
have to just get them.

Speaker 3 (55:13):
Can you imagine that kind of weightlifting us? Yeah yeah,
I can't even Yeah.

Speaker 2 (55:21):
Yeah, it was just it was beautiful, man. And you
know I've been there for my kids. I'm still there
for them. I'm around them, you know, I take care
of them. We work out together. I mean my youngest
Shamar Hill, he just did a movie Brewsters Millions. Oh yeah, yeah,

(55:41):
he's original. Yeah okay, yeah, so that came out just
a few months ago. You could check him out. Shamal Hill.
He has his own Instagram page and he also sings too.
He's singing rap. He got his little R and.

Speaker 1 (55:55):
B song, does he? Because I know some of these
fool kids do not like people to you know, because
it's hard because you don't want to say this my dad,
you know, because sometimes people look at that and they kind.

Speaker 3 (56:05):
Of overly critique you.

Speaker 1 (56:08):
Yeah, well he's very outspoken because I messed up, and
she'd be like, I don't want to keep it saying
enough because everybody going to be like, that's that's and
such his daughter.

Speaker 2 (56:20):
That's right, that's right. He's outspoken and he you know,
he's been an activist since since a young boy. And
you know he also is in the Food of Islam.
He's marching, he with the fo while with his little
suit and bowl tie. You know, if you go to
this page, you'll see him over there with Farrakahan and
you know, just doing everything. He had his own business

(56:42):
when he was twelve. He had so so you know,
so that's what I'm saying, Like, I just I just
want to want my kids to, you know, to be
able to get it how they live it, you know
what I mean, grinded out and just keep it releting
that energy man and be the best that you could

(57:03):
be and you know, learn to to do the best
with what you have.

Speaker 5 (57:09):
Right that part.

Speaker 2 (57:10):
You ain't never got to be feeling no kind of
way because you lacking in something, you know. I mean,
just just do the best with what you have, man,
And that's all I asked.

Speaker 5 (57:19):
Man.

Speaker 2 (57:19):
I was with my son Angela the other day. He's
like six' one, he's sixteen, west side thirteen. You know
he's a bike rider. Yeah, a bike rider. He rides
for miles from Maryland to DC. And you know, I
looked at it. He had a good, nice report card.
It was all eighty fives all the way down. You know,

(57:40):
proud far me. You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (57:43):
You know Jasmine's point earlier about the rice milk, Wu
Tang was early on a lot of these things when
it comes to health and nutrition that people are now
up on. You know, when you think about it, I'll
be in the office. They'd be like, we don't eat that,
we don't eat never know, swine, that's.

Speaker 2 (57:59):
Not I've been a pescatarian since I came into the
thirty six chambers because you know, my brothers they didn't eat.
They didn't eat me. I used to go in defgerated
at the mansion and be.

Speaker 5 (58:14):
Like, what is morning?

Speaker 2 (58:15):
Start? What is this? I didn't like that stuff? And
then all of a sudden, now it's like thirty one
years I've been a pescatarian.

Speaker 4 (58:22):
So what's your favorite type of fish?

Speaker 1 (58:24):
I like salmon because they would flip over a table
you had some port.

Speaker 2 (58:32):
Aloud, nothing would even pork in it. And speaking of health,
you know, health is wealth, you know what I'm saying.
And I'm also working on a project too. It's called
Gardley Wealthy and Beautiful.

Speaker 3 (58:46):
Yes, your album's coming out.

Speaker 2 (58:47):
Yeah, yeah, April seventeen. So Gardlely, Wealthy and Beautiful is
about affirmations and it's about talking positive affirmations into your life.
You know, it's a very eclectic album. It's not just
one way to life. You know what I'm saying. Life
is forever, swift and changeable, you know what I'm saying.
So I'm doing a lot on it, and you know,

(59:08):
I just I just like the sports so much that
I'm not gonna stop doing music. You know what I'm saying.
I love to do it. I'm gonna keep doing it
into something. Whether it hit or miss, it doesn't matter
because I was doing it already before I got on.
I never asked nobody like, Yo, what should I do
or nothing like that. I just did what I did,
and people gravitated towards it. So I'm still doing that.

(59:31):
And I bought y'all a.

Speaker 5 (59:34):
Us B technology technology.

Speaker 2 (59:37):
It's a USB. Try track seventeen if you want to
play that on the radio. It's radio friendly, you know
what I mean. And I'm singing a little bit on that. Yeah,
I'm singing. It's like I'm doing.

Speaker 5 (59:49):
All whatever it's in me, just coming out.

Speaker 2 (59:52):
Listen to it first so you can.

Speaker 3 (59:56):
I've always been a party guy of.

Speaker 2 (01:00:01):
That's right.

Speaker 1 (01:00:03):
Smiling too, I want to say.

Speaker 3 (01:00:07):
Thank you guys so much.

Speaker 1 (01:00:08):
We could have We could go on for hours and
hours and next time, could we have a nice sit
down because we got so many stories to tell, but
really great ones, and so, like I said, I appreciate this.
This is my introduction into who I am today. Couldn't
have done it if it wasn't for Wu Tang in
the beginning.

Speaker 3 (01:00:24):
Best decision I.

Speaker 1 (01:00:25):
Made was taking that job out of college. My first
day was summer Jim when y'all got banned from Hot
ninety seven.

Speaker 3 (01:00:34):
Yes, I had Actually.

Speaker 2 (01:00:37):
I was.

Speaker 1 (01:00:41):
Turned over the summer of Bhutang Management on Bay Street
and Staten Island and then yeah six ninety one Bay Street,
I was there working for Mook and then I went
back to college and they tried to talk me into
It was my last year of college and they were like,
don't go back to college, just come work.

Speaker 3 (01:00:56):
I was like, no, I'm gonna finish this out right
because my parents was not havn't it.

Speaker 1 (01:01:00):
So when I graduated, for three days I attempt and
I was like, I can't do this anymore. I stopped
by the office and when I got there, Divine was like,
we was looking for you. We want to hire you.
I want you to be my assistant. But it was
the same day as Semmon Jam. I had on a
business suit because I was coming from another interview at
Sony Records, and I was like, you know what, I'm

(01:01:21):
gonna take this job. And I went to Summer Jam Tanya.
Tanya was like, come to come to Summon Jam with us.

Speaker 3 (01:01:28):
I get there.

Speaker 1 (01:01:29):
We're backstage and I'm like, we're gonna go on the
audience and watch. We go on the audience and watch.
A bad Boy was on first and I remember you
guys were on tour. I think it was rage against
the Machine tour maybe at that time. And no matter
of fact, it was a different You guys were overseas
and came back.

Speaker 5 (01:01:47):
Okay, and then and then we flew back to fly back.

Speaker 4 (01:01:52):
You didn't want to be there.

Speaker 5 (01:01:53):
We didn't want to a legendary day. Go ahead.

Speaker 2 (01:01:57):
Write about that too, but also.

Speaker 3 (01:02:00):
Didn't want to go on. After bad Boy. Bad Boy
came out, they had the baseball jerseys.

Speaker 5 (01:02:04):
It was on point. The sound was Chris.

Speaker 3 (01:02:08):
Yeah, and Wu Tan came on after that.

Speaker 1 (01:02:11):
And when I tell you guys, tell me what happened,
you know you're telling me I was.

Speaker 3 (01:02:17):
I just remember my mouth dropped up and.

Speaker 5 (01:02:19):
Like like this what I said that happened?

Speaker 4 (01:02:21):
Tell me what happened?

Speaker 5 (01:02:22):
Well, I just remember as soon as we got I
just remember, right, I just remember they rushing us to
the stage right right, so bad Boy is on. They
killing it. They put me up with the turntables, right,
So my turntable was supposed to rise up, so they
got I'm there as we starting. As soon as they

(01:02:43):
start rising up, only one side is rising up. The
other sides like this, so the turntables just falling off
the table.

Speaker 2 (01:02:51):
You ain't know that.

Speaker 5 (01:02:53):
So I'm catching them and I'm trying like yo, and
Richards behind me is like your math stayed cool, not
part of the show. Yeah, stay cool. So I'm like,
I'm trying to stay cool. Right. What's her name? She
used to she used to work at the Apollo doing
the sounds. Well, she was there, okay, she actually assisted

(01:03:13):
and helped get the turntables right, Okay, somewhat. They was
never right. They was never right. They was always off.
And from there it was just went down here from there, Yeah,
it just went downhill from there.

Speaker 1 (01:03:24):
And then so they already didn't want to be there,
so sound was horrible and then it was But I
heard Kristin Claire fuck had ninety seven.

Speaker 4 (01:03:33):
Said that that.

Speaker 5 (01:03:36):
Yeah, yeah goes.

Speaker 1 (01:03:38):
Yeah, I think fuck and he named the names of
the personalities. And then they got banned after that and
that band hurt. Yes, yeah, they got banned.

Speaker 2 (01:03:51):
I was longer than that, ten years before we went
up there. Man went up there and apologized to the lady.

Speaker 3 (01:04:00):
So, okay, so that's what happened. You guys went up
and apologize.

Speaker 4 (01:04:04):
But how did the apology? How did the apology go?

Speaker 5 (01:04:08):
Here?

Speaker 1 (01:04:09):
Now?

Speaker 2 (01:04:09):
We just you know, we went up there and met
her and we just extended our apologies to it, like
you know, because it wasn't personal. You know, it was
just the way things was going down and how hard
we was working on tour. But you know, we didn't
mean we didn't know what was going to really go
to that level. We didn't know people had enough power

(01:04:30):
to ban you because it wasn't just Hot ninety seven.
It was radio everywhere.

Speaker 5 (01:04:35):
All their sister station everywhere. They shut us down. We
had no more video play. I remember the next day
because I want to hit the feedback listening to Wendy
Williams and she's talking about it. I think Meth called
up and then she was doing the countdown. She's doing
the countdown. Then she was like the number one song

(01:04:57):
of the day. She said, go figure who Tang United?
And I knew. I said, yo, that's a joke. Because
after that, that was the last time I ever heard
us on the radio for the next I don't know
how many.

Speaker 1 (01:05:10):
Years she imagine that, but people like twenty thirteen, how
much that hurts twentieth.

Speaker 5 (01:05:17):
Anniversaries when when they started playing flex but they started
playing us again on the radio and that was what
ninety seven.

Speaker 3 (01:05:25):
Yeah, that was in ninety seven.

Speaker 5 (01:05:26):
That's sixteen years.

Speaker 3 (01:05:28):
That's wild.

Speaker 5 (01:05:29):
See they tried, they tried to really kill us.

Speaker 3 (01:05:32):
They tried.

Speaker 1 (01:05:33):
You know, thank god y'all tour and everything and do
all of those and had a great audience and a
great crossover audience, like internationally, you know, to be able
to tour internationally and go other places and get your
bags that way.

Speaker 6 (01:05:47):
But because the average artists are group that would have
have been over not being not getting radio played for
that long, you'll get over.

Speaker 3 (01:05:54):
Yeah, it would be.

Speaker 5 (01:05:55):
That's sixteen years.

Speaker 1 (01:05:57):
Lord of Mercy, Well, thank you. I feel like there's
so much when we didn't get to but we got
to do a part.

Speaker 3 (01:06:02):
Two or something.

Speaker 5 (01:06:03):
Yeah, you definitely do because because I still want to
hear more on that day from your perspective, my.

Speaker 1 (01:06:10):
First day, I had a kitten heels and I had
on a suit and I'm here.

Speaker 2 (01:06:15):
I am.

Speaker 3 (01:06:15):
They're like, come on, we're going to I was like,
I want to hear.

Speaker 5 (01:06:22):
My first day, okay, rest in Peace School.

Speaker 1 (01:06:34):
Tana was looking in the audien because we're like, come on,
let's go watch the show. We get in the audience,
people start leaving because I think the sound was really bad.

Speaker 5 (01:06:41):
So everybody they sabotage. I thought it was sabotage, you know,
you know, I felt like it was sabotage. I think,
you know, because it was the Battle for New York.

Speaker 3 (01:06:51):
Yeah, it was Bad Boy versus Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:06:54):
And it seemed like, you know, like they was favoring
them over us. I mean, you know, we was the
you know how we was.

Speaker 3 (01:07:04):
You never know what's gonna happen, more friendly.

Speaker 5 (01:07:08):
They was more clean and polished, you know.

Speaker 4 (01:07:11):
Feel like it's like two different genres, like almost.

Speaker 1 (01:07:14):
I want to say, even when Mu Tang first came
in the game, it was hard to get because people
didn't you know, look, you got to think that you're
coming off of like Rizza being Prince Rakim and Jizza
being genius and you know for the ladies and Big
Daddy Kane, and people were like Wou Tang, like what
is you know, this is grimier than that, And people

(01:07:35):
didn't understand it at first and didn't think it was
gonna work.

Speaker 2 (01:07:38):
Because they both came out with girls songs.

Speaker 5 (01:07:41):
Yeah, oh we love you Rakum and come do Me,
Come Do Me.

Speaker 2 (01:07:46):
Wild.

Speaker 5 (01:07:49):
You know, he didn't want to do that song. Either
I know he.

Speaker 1 (01:07:51):
Had silky pajamas. Okay, it was not the vibes.

Speaker 5 (01:08:00):
No, the video was banging.

Speaker 2 (01:08:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:08:04):
Well, and then listen ice Cream was a lady song,
but a different type of lady song. That said it
all off that all right, Well, thank you guys so
much again, Black Sampson the Basket swords Man.

Speaker 3 (01:08:15):
I got my a limited edition. It's only what five thousand.

Speaker 5 (01:08:19):
Of five thousand in the US and one thousand in
the UK? Okay, right, And to my understand, I think
we pretty much sold out. So if you ain't get it,
I think you kind of missed.

Speaker 1 (01:08:30):
Out of luck and Capadna. You have your project coming
out on the seventeenth.

Speaker 2 (01:08:34):
That's right, Gardly Wealthy and beautiful. Check it out ww
dot J L F E N T dot com.

Speaker 3 (01:08:40):
All right, ok thing, one more thing.

Speaker 5 (01:08:43):
I mean to cut you. The album actually dropped to
DSP April twenty fifth, so we can we got the caps.

Speaker 1 (01:08:49):
Okay, all right, way up for angela ye or as
we say.

Speaker 5 (01:08:52):
Today, wou Way just got a bonus song on it too.

Speaker 3 (01:08:55):
Okay, Well, I got my turntables at home. God is good.

Speaker 5 (01:09:01):
A drank of forty

Speaker 2 (01:09:04):
Well,