Mandi Woodruff’s Top Career Advice: Negotiating Raises, Networking, & Finding Your Own Path + More
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
What's up his way up at Angela yee, And it
is my favorite day, a Wealth Wednesday. I got my
partner Stacy Tisdale here.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Happy Wealth Wednesdays everybody, And we have something really special
for you. We know that it is mental Health Awareness months,
so we are going to focus on your mental health
and bring you some Brown Ambition with Mandy Woodruff Santos,
who is the founder of that amazing podcast. If you
haven't heard it, check it out that she founded with
(00:30):
another really good friend of ours, Tiffany the budget nista, Yes,
who recently left Mandy. You'll tell us all about that.
And now Brown Ambition is on iheartline and it's all hers,
And let's start right with that. What was that transition?
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Like, oh, I mean.
Speaker 4 (00:49):
Who likes change? Nobody right, Like it's it's it can
be scary. I know Tiffany and I did the show
together for nine years and she's my girl, like we're sisters.
We start art it as more I would say business associates.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
You know, I was a reporter. I wanted to do
a podcast.
Speaker 4 (01:05):
I was sick of being the only chocolate chip in
the pancake. I was at Yahoo Finance, Business Insider and
I just wanted more of us. I went to this conference.
I met Tiffany and like six other black girls at
this conference, and I was like this, why can't we
just be together more? And so I trapped her into
doing ad I tricked her into doing a podcast with me,
Trick Trip, and it really started as like you're dope.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
You know, she was a financial educator.
Speaker 4 (01:28):
I brought that journalistic you know quality to it, me
my little fex and my like you know objectivity. And
then quickly, you know, or not quickly, over the next
nine years, we just became. We became more than like
just business, you know, partners. And we went through so much,
I mean, the death of her husband, to fertility journey,
my fertility journey, marriage.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
We started the show.
Speaker 4 (01:52):
I was twenty seven, you know, I was a baby,
and so you live a lot of life and we're
so fortunate that we were able to build that sisterhood
and so and she told me it was like, I
think I had a four month heads up. She called me,
I was blown up balloons from a kids party.
Speaker 5 (02:06):
I would never forget that moment.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
Oh no.
Speaker 4 (02:09):
And my son's like, Mommy, what's the matter. And Tiffany's
on the phone like telling me that she's going to
be leaving at the end of the year.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
And I think I was just sad.
Speaker 4 (02:17):
I mean, but Tiff is really good at trusting her gut.
She's taught me so much about just listening to her instinct.
And so from there, we had four months to say goodbye,
and we did it right.
Speaker 3 (02:28):
We did the damn thing. We said goodbye.
Speaker 4 (02:30):
We we had doctor Joy from Therapy.
Speaker 5 (02:33):
For Black Girls come on, Oh nice, nice.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
Coach us through this new transition of our friendship.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
And that's interesting because we had a conversation just up
here the other day about co workers being friends, and
you said, you guys started off really just working together
and then developed a friendship. And for some people that's
really hard to do. And for some people they also
look at just because you work together and you're together
every day, that's supposed to me that your friends automatically,
and that's not always the case.
Speaker 4 (02:58):
Well, that's why I think it was good that we
started off as business. I always say this, like, I
think the show went on has gone on for so long,
and we have not. We rarely take time off, like
we are week after week for nine years. We show
up we record the show. We don't pre tape, we
don't do like episodes in the can. And I think
it's because we weren't so close that we would like
dip on each other.
Speaker 5 (03:17):
We you know, when like you.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Know each other too well, Yeah, kind of take advantage
of the situation.
Speaker 4 (03:23):
Yes, we were both like we still respect.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
It sounds terrible.
Speaker 4 (03:25):
We respected each other a lot, right, So we showed
up and oh, I see her book over there. She's
just incredible. And since she left, I think I was
afraid because I never I never thought about what could
the show be without Tiffany. But and I we literally
talked like twice yesterday once today, and she's so proud
of me, and I am so proud of myself and
her for what we built. I'm so excited to be
(03:48):
a part of the iHeart family.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
Now. I think this is just the beginning.
Speaker 5 (03:51):
And yes, welcome to the family.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
And I want to say, Mandy, we also have to
understand that people just because they go their separate ways
on something doesn't mean that it has to end badly.
And we see all the times people doing podcasts and
they like hate each other and this person is talking
crazy behind the other person's back. But it's great that
you guys are still that close and knowing that this
is gonna come to an end in four months. You
(04:15):
wrapped it out. You did what you had to do,
and now you've had to reimagine what this is like
for you, which is seems like it's going really well.
Speaker 4 (04:22):
Yeah, I mean Brown and Bush, especially in this time.
I really felt like, you know, the election happened, was
I woke up at like four am.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
I went down to my.
Speaker 4 (04:30):
Basement and I looked up my screen and I just
started recording an episode of the podcast. At that time,
my knew Tiffany was gone, what's going to be leaving soon?
And I just felt this like calm come over me
and this power just knowing I'm sure you feel the
same way. You have this platform, and I'm like, what
do I want to say to us? What I want
to say to women of color? And how important is
(04:51):
the work now? And I'm so proud and I feel
like I'm really walking in my purpose now, so helping
us get rich, build generational wealth, build resilience for the
insane times.
Speaker 5 (05:03):
Advocate for ourselves in the workplace.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
So many things.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
When I was listening to you talk about Tiffany, and
I don't know why. It made me think of Angela
and me and I always.
Speaker 5 (05:12):
I thought you're about to leave me.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
No never.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
We started Wealth Wednesdays. I was a guest on the
Breakfast Club and we wanted to just I always say
I felt like I was sitting next to a sister
from another life or something. We just connected and I
decided we wanted to do something powerful in the financial space,
and that's how our relationship and friendship started. I always say, friends,
(05:39):
even partners, sometimes it's good to meet them through work
because you really learn a lot about someone when you
work with them. Like I know a lot of people
who I worked with, some guys, especially on Wall Street,
I'm like, I wonder if their family really.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
Knows what they're like, what they're like.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
But you learn so much about each other and now
it's like, you know, a child together that we've created,
and it's just a beautiful friendship. And when we're lucky,
you guys are lucky and we're lucky that what you
learn about each other just from doing it over and
over again is good and you can grow.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
It's a wonderful partnership.
Speaker 4 (06:16):
It helps if you're both in therapy and Okay, you're
growing as people because I think if that had transition
happened five years ago, it could have been maybe a
little bit sour. But we're just so evolved and so
like in our highest versions of ourselves and.
Speaker 5 (06:31):
Happy for each other, you know what.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
Speaking on this, I want to discuss something that a
lot of people are dealing with right now. And I
know this is something that you've discussed. We see a
lot of businesses struggling, We see people getting laid off,
we see people nervous about what's going to come in
the future. But when you do get laid off, it's
an unfortunate situation. How can you advocate for yourself because
(06:54):
I know SEVENCE packages aren't a must, right, They're not
a given, but it is something that you can negotiate.
Can you talk about that because I know so many
people and it's embarrassing for people as well, and I
want to talk about that too. For some people they
don't even you know, want to tell people shame fa yeah, yeah,
that this is happening to them, and so that part
(07:16):
is also hard. So I want to talk about that
a little bit.
Speaker 4 (07:18):
You know, I think we're in like a very unique time.
It's been a couple of years now where it has
been this this, the economy has been so dicey. It's like,
is it a recession. No, it's not a recession, but
the women I work with, it's very much. It's it
feels like a recession. Like I don't care what the
economists say, what the Fed says, like we are going
through it, and you're right, I mean, layoffs are continuing
(07:39):
to happen. And the unfortunate thing is that, of course, yes,
I want to empower people to negotiate through severance packages,
and you absolutely can if you're lucky to be offered one,
because to your point, packages are not required. Companies literally
only give severance packages because they're afraid of y' all
talking about them on the internet. It's about their reputation,
and you know, they don't want to be own as
(08:00):
a company that has let people go without a dime,
you know.
Speaker 5 (08:03):
For health insurance because health and they think about too.
Speaker 4 (08:06):
But yet it's my my, my good friend, her husband
was recently let go and he worked for a I'm
not going to get too in the weeds, but his
work was funded by the federal government. They lost their
funding because of everything that's been going on, and there
was no money for severance. It was like we got nothing, goodbye.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
That's what's happening to a lot of people.
Speaker 4 (08:25):
Yeah, so I don't want to scare anybody, but that's
the reality. And I think, you know, if you've listened
to Brown Ambition or you've you know, encountered our content.
I'm always talking about a recession proof career, and by
that I mean always expect that, whether it is the
current you know, administration, whether it's changes in your industry,
changes in your life, like ISSU is going to hit
(08:46):
the fan at some point, So like why even pretend
like it's not going to happen. Have your you know,
make sure you're living beneath your means so you can
be saving and investing for long term growth. And for me,
the power of connection and maintaining your relationships. When the
women I work with are recently let go, I'm like,
don't look at your resume, don't go to LinkedIn. Find
(09:07):
five people individuals who you know you have a good
relationship with, who are in your field or professionally you know,
tangential to your field, and contact them and let them
know On a one to one basis, what has happened,
what you want to do next? Start reaching out to people,
and you'd be so surprised. Maybe not how scary and
intimidating that can be, but that is what creates career longevity.
(09:31):
It ain't your resume.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
How do people What do you say to people who
are really crashing right now? I mean, you can be
living beneath your means everything. And you had an one
of your podcasts was really interesting. It's a four hundred
thousand dollars and I'm drowning in credit card debt. And
you and I were having a conversation the other day
and when we've taken care of kids, we've taken care
(09:55):
of parents, we're financial experts, and you look at your finances,
it's like, okay, I want my finances to look different
than that, and I know I had to make peace
with myself. Nothing's gonna be perfec You were raising a
kid and taking care of a parent, it's okay for
things to not be okay, and not internalizing that and
not turning that into you know that whole fear based
(10:16):
thinking and being able to make empowered decisions fixed.
Speaker 3 (10:19):
All that crappy about yourself.
Speaker 4 (10:21):
No, I think you know Stacy and I you were
talking to me on the in the middle of the
second day of a you know, family road trip with
my five year old and my two year old from
New York to Atlanta, where I'm from. We were coming
home and Stacy's like, can you talk? I said, please,
dear lord, someone, I'll talk to anybody, so.
Speaker 5 (10:36):
Like we're the phone a long time.
Speaker 4 (10:38):
But I needed to hear that because I'm at this
stage now where I was doing. I was so smart
when I was twenty four. You do so much. You're like,
you know it all. I'm like, look at my investments.
I'm putting away ten percent in my savings ten percent
and investing. You know, I got all these things set up.
I got the house, I had the.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
Big down payment, cars paid off.
Speaker 4 (10:57):
I was like doing the damn thing. And then I
had these cares and then I left corporate.
Speaker 3 (11:02):
I'm an entrepreneur.
Speaker 4 (11:04):
You know, there's there's ye you know, ebbs and flows,
and I'm in a situation where I am more financially,
like on the cusper, more financially not as resilient, like
I don't have as much of an of an emergency fund,
and I'm like, oh, I'm actually terrible at this, Like,
why is anybody listening to me?
Speaker 3 (11:24):
Am I not?
Speaker 4 (11:24):
What's happened to me? It's supposed to be Mandy money,
Like what's going on?
Speaker 3 (11:28):
And it's that shame and pastor syndrome. It's such shame.
Speaker 4 (11:31):
Yeah, an imposter syndrome. But it's also, like you said,
it's like I am comparing myself to the twenty four
year old version of myself. You had, like only myself
to care about it.
Speaker 5 (11:40):
Yeah, you didn't have all those responsibilities.
Speaker 4 (11:42):
It's really freaking hard. So honestly, what I would say
to anyone crashing out is to accept the crash.
Speaker 3 (11:49):
Know that it will that you can.
Speaker 4 (11:50):
You have everything you need to make small incremental changes,
even if you're feeling like you're drowning right now. Make
one phone call to someone who can support you. You know,
do one search for a credit counseling service. I know
you mentioned that you've worked with the National Foundation for
Credit Counseling. You know, do one balance transfer so that
(12:11):
you can get some high interest credit card debt you know,
transferred over, and that a zero percent intro APR. Just
these small things to give yourself some breathing space and
give yourself grace.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
Right Another thing that people are freaking out about is
when they look at their investments and they.
Speaker 3 (12:27):
Say, nobody's freaking out. Don't look at them.
Speaker 5 (12:29):
I'm just listen.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
But that is the advice that people are giving right now.
Don't even look at your investments. You know, that made
me look it's.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
Different this time around.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
I always tell people that all the time they'll cover
the stock market, it's going to go ups and downs.
Don't look at them. This is different because some things
are being broken right then. Nobody knows how it's going
to play out.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
Like we're literally having a conversation about how paper money is.
Speaker 5 (12:54):
You know, cash is going to not be a thing.
Maybe I don't know anything.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Complete, complete, unknown right now. It makes you think of
how made up everything is, right, Like who said this
piece of paper X, Y and Z and if it
has this number, it's.
Speaker 4 (13:10):
Yeah, I just saw sinners and they're using like plantation
coins these like wooden chips and interesting movie, very interesting,
but yeah, I mean, it's just it makes you feel
how fragile everything is and how it's so much depending
on like a social contract that we have with each
other to just take this stuff seriously. Yeah, it's really
freaking scary. I mean, you can look at your investments.
What I would say is, don't make any like sudden
(13:33):
changes right now based on what's happening. If you're someone
who looked at your investments and you're like, oh god,
they're down more than twenty thirty percent, even maybe fifty percent,
and you're you're losing sleep, you are stressing out, I
think what you're learning is I can't tolerate this kind
of dip, you know. And I think what you're learning
is I need to call my financial advisor, my investment advisor,
get one in the first place, and you know, rebalance
(13:55):
my portfolio so that you're not so leveraged in the
stock market and be you know, buy more bonds.
Speaker 3 (14:02):
You can look at everything, I know, everything, everything.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
Now is not the time to also take that money
out right, well, you know, until you.
Speaker 4 (14:12):
Take it out right, Yeah, I wouldn't. I absolutely mean,
there's these rules of thumb that I have been harping on.
I know you, Stacey, have a long career in person.
We've been saying the same stuff for decades now, but.
Speaker 5 (14:22):
It is feel different.
Speaker 3 (14:23):
Who knows who knows, who knows?
Speaker 2 (14:28):
I don't have it, But there's optimism and are I'm
gonna call it many and Stacy's car ride.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
Now and our car ride.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
We also got to of course, a really beautiful place
and a lot of the black women. Brown Ambition really
is focused on black women. There's an optimism, yeah, and
there's kind of a stepping back. And we were talking
a lot about how, you know, Vice President Harris was
(14:56):
if she would have won, black women would have felt
so great because it's for like we've finally been accepted
and acknowledged. But it's a system that was never designed
for us, so us waiting for that approval, it was
just never ever ever gonna come. So now just stepping back,
okay and just creating our own system. We're seeing a
lot of people do that.
Speaker 3 (15:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (15:16):
I mean, I'm I feel like it gave us permission
to let go of trying to get that external validation
from these corporations. Even becoming, you know, having Brown Ambition
be legitimized, quote unquote getting on the iHeart Network. That's
very exciting. But I also feel very much that like
Brown Ambition as its own brand in my platform, I'm
(15:36):
so proud of it.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
I see the value in it.
Speaker 4 (15:38):
It's great to get these external you know, these external
people and companies and corporations and yes, governments to say that,
yes we want to you're accepted here. But I think
absolutely Kamala Harris's you know, tragic loss was almost a
win for black women because we got to stop. We
got to kill the fairy tale for once and for all. Yes,
(16:00):
saving us, No one's saving us.
Speaker 3 (16:02):
And they never were going to and they never said
they were going.
Speaker 4 (16:04):
Even if they did, even if she had won, it
would have been an issue. You know, who knows, right.
And I'm glad that the it's weird saying, but yeah,
I'm glad that the that the outcome was what it was.
And I am see I'm hearing so much optimism and
so much empowerment, like let's build, let's create, let's be
in community together and save each other, and yeah, the
(16:27):
world's burning, but we're going to be over here. I
got community garden going, my neighbors and I were growing
our own food.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
We started our real estate club with that super mentality.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
Yeah, you know, at times like this, it's really we
have done so many things in the past with so
many obstacles in our way, and so I just feel like,
now this is just the twenty twenty five iteration of
us having to do that yet again. But we are
we are a lot more powerful.
Speaker 4 (16:54):
You know.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
I was looking at Lisa Price getting back control of
Carol's daughter, and that's a company that she started, you know,
literally before all these she was super.
Speaker 5 (17:03):
Early on it.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
I think it was like nineteen ninety something, you know,
that she started it and then sold it to Lareal
and now they sold it and she's you know, back
on board. Is like the president overseeing things with equity
in it. And that's a great feeling to have been
able to create something. I saw Pinky. I don't know
what her full situation is. She's the comeback yeah with
Slutty Vegan, but now.
Speaker 4 (17:24):
Gp Henson too took her. She took ownership of her
hair care brand.
Speaker 5 (17:28):
Oh okay, I like her. Okay.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
So that's what I'm saying. These things are so important
and also what's important, and this is a conversation that
I've been having with coach Jesse, but also making sure
we know what ingredients are in the products that we're using,
because there's a lot of things that are causing all
kinds of health issues for black women and our products
that are targeted for us, but we don't understand this
is also what's making us sick, you know what I mean.
(17:51):
And so I think it's so important for us to
be right there front and center supporting those businesses but
also leading those businesses.
Speaker 4 (17:59):
Yes, it's a little plug for pattern because I do
be using products all of that.
Speaker 5 (18:03):
That's what I have in my hair right now. The Moose. Okay,
it's so good.
Speaker 3 (18:06):
Yeah, yeah, I love us so much.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
So people can also work with you. So everybody's going
to listen to Brown Ambition.
Speaker 4 (18:13):
Oh please do Yeah, every Wednesday and Friday.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
Every Wednesday and Friday. And there's also Mandy money Makers,
which is an incredible speaking of community.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (18:22):
I teach a lot of women of color how to
quit their jobs and how to negotiate incredible salaries. And
it's my favorite thing in the entire world to teach,
to teach other women how to be badasses and how
to how do not necessarily fight for their worth because
I'm not one to say, like, you know, there's a
book on my desk right now, and it's like unrig
the game and I don't necessarily think it's our responsibility
(18:43):
to fix what's already broken, to make like, to make
our bosses value us and all of that. What I
do believe is that it's what we can control is
the value that we're bringing. We can control the way
that we perceive ourselves, the confidence we bring into a role,
and advocating for ourselves, just saying simply, even in times
(19:03):
like this, I have people in my community, Manny money
makers who are asking for raises and getting them.
Speaker 5 (19:09):
Yes, Mandy, I wanted.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
So.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
I heard two different opinions on this in the last
week about whether you should throw out a number when
you go in so one person said, and these are
like financial experts. One person was like, you should let
them always like kind of go so you can see
where they're coming, because what if they offer you more
than what you were even going to ask for. And
then I've heard, you know, obviously the flip side, which
(19:32):
is what I hear more frequently, is that you need
to go in there with a number that you're asking for.
Speaker 4 (19:36):
I mean, I think it depends on what level you
are in your career, Like I think you have, for example, Angela,
like you have had such a storied career. I feel
like at this point you probably do have that, Like
I'm not getting out of bed for less than whatever.
We're like, I really know my value. You probably also have,
I hope, a network of similarly situated people who you
can rely on to tell you what's realistic and what
you should be asking for. Just this morning, Tiffany was like, Oh,
(19:59):
don't do that. You know, ask for this. And I
think if you're more advanced in your career, it's easier
to come in with a certain expectation of what you want. Now,
if you're earlier in your career, you know, mid entry level,
and you are coming to the table, you don't know
the other person on the other side of the negotiating table,
they don't know you. I do think the advice of
not giving a number it makes sense because, especially early
(20:20):
in your career, you don't have enough information potentially to
be throwing out numbers. You definitely could low ball yourself.
And so I do think that advice applies. And I
think it's also just a good time to remind you
all that all these various opinions are wonderful. I love
that you had two different versions of that advice because
we need to be open to what's going to fit
(20:41):
this situation, right, and the you know.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
Person journalistically and we're both financial journalists, also know the
numbers and know the situation before you get into that.
Because the Reality Economic Bureau of Research, ninety two percent
of men negotiate their first salary, seven percent of women
negotiate their first salary. Not negotiating your first salary cost
(21:05):
about eight hundred and fifty thousand dollars over the life
of a career. Now imagine that invested. So knowing like
you were saying, talking to people emotionally about you know
why you should and should negotiate. That's one thing, but
also fill your head with facts and you know, take
those things into consideration. And I mean, I also hope
(21:27):
you make the decisions you're gonna hear. No.
Speaker 4 (21:29):
I mean I was a country level and I was like,
can I have more money please? And they said no,
it's a recession. This was twenty eleven after the Great Recession,
and they're like, no, you want this job or not,
come get your little thirty five K. I was like,
you're right, absolutely, I will, I can I wear I
have no, I will be packing my bags up back
on the midnight train to Georgia if I don't take
(21:50):
this job, so absolutely I have no leverage. Got it
and for me, But the practice of asking and hearing
no early in your career, I do believe it's really
important because you will get to that. Yes, the more
you prove yourself and you build your brand and you
have your portfolio of work, your experience, but you do
need to get You need to be able to withstand
the nose and yeah, they and even when you deserve it,
(22:14):
and all the research you've done shows you should be
getting something, and they still say, no, that's information you
can use. Okay, so this isn't the place it's gonna
value me.
Speaker 3 (22:20):
So I got to be always.
Speaker 4 (22:22):
Be looking for more opportunities, always keeping your network warm,
you know, have a coffee, you know, have a check
in with mentors of yours, peers of yours, and just
make it a practice to stay connected. I think the
pandemic created this idea that we could just all go
in under our like snuggies and like never leave the
house and cancel plans with people. Don't cancel plans, show
(22:43):
up because those are the people.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
Who can show up for you.
Speaker 4 (22:46):
So I'm like, I'm an introvert, I'm pushing myself. I'm
going to need a big nap after this conversation.
Speaker 3 (22:52):
I'm giving a lot and that's okay.
Speaker 4 (22:55):
But like, now I've met two incredible, you know women,
and we can support each other, and like that's that's
the advice I wish I wish more moment of color
were taking. Is like, push yourself out of your comfort zone.
We kind of get so much further when we nurture
those relationships.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
How is it when it's time to switch, because you
know a lot of times you do want to switch years.
Maybe you've been doing something for X amount of time,
but now I want to switch over to another path.
But now I got to start at the bottom, right, Yeah,
talk to me about that.
Speaker 5 (23:25):
I actually it's interesting.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
This whole conversation makes me think about when I first
started doing radio and I had to really take like
a severe cut in what I was making.
Speaker 5 (23:34):
Yeah, like thank you, iHeart.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
But but when I first started, I knew that I
had never done radio before.
Speaker 5 (23:42):
So I did accept that, but it was kind of
hard for me.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
I did negotiate though, after a year and got a
forty percent raise and they were.
Speaker 3 (23:50):
Really underpaying you.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
They were absolutely sounds like a lot, but you know
it's not a lot when you're not making a lot.
Speaker 3 (23:57):
So it's just because you wanted to switch into Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
So I switched into radio to make, you know, way
less than what I was making doing marketing.
Speaker 5 (24:04):
But I also knew this was something.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
That I had to like start that way because I
didn't have anything to point to to be like, well,
I've done this, I've done that. I have relationships they
don't care, and like you said, it is a feel
that it is not easy to make a lot of
money in and so I started there. And then it's
also hard if you don't negotiate your salary to negotiate
that race because you're starting at such a bottom. You
(24:27):
point as well, And these are all things that I
had to take into consideration when it came to that.
But when you want to switch into a new field,
how do you approach that?
Speaker 4 (24:37):
Well, I think the first thing is to not tell
yourself that you're for sure going to have to take
a pay cut, especially if you're more advanced in your career.
Speaker 3 (24:43):
You have to own your story. And I was just
talking to my brother. My brother's in AI.
Speaker 4 (24:47):
Sales, and he and I are so different. He's like
mister business and I'm like, oh, artsy and that's.
Speaker 3 (24:53):
Me and my brother see free.
Speaker 4 (24:54):
And but what we both agree on is how essential
storytelling is to his success as a sales director and
as my success as a creator, as a writer, as
a journalist. Because you walk into an interview and like,
I'll just give an example. Let's say I'm a teacher,
I want to transition into tech. I want to do
I want to be a salesperson, and I walk into
an interview if I get one and they're like, okay,
so I see that you've been teaching science for ten years,
(25:17):
like or just are you in the right place? And
you can go, oh yeah, yeah, you know, like I
always love teaching, but you know, like this doesn't pay
that great and you're like not sure of your story.
But if you go in there and you're like, have
you seen abbat Elementary? That is the hardest work of
my life. I can do anything. Now I am a
(25:38):
powerhouse and selling this product which I can I can
teach anyone about because I have these skills as a teacher,
and really, sales is about explaining the mission behind a product.
And getting people to buy in, Oh, I'm your girl.
Then that's a very different conversation. The other person's going
to believe in you because they're going to feel that
confidence from yourself.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
So you got to own that story.
Speaker 4 (25:58):
So if you're pivoting from one place to the next,
and this is another reason to not just just focus
on your resume and apply for a job, you need
to get in front of people. You need to like
get on the phone with somebody, so a contact who
knows people who may be hiring, because they need to
see you. They need to hear your story, so they
want to root for you, so they will help you
get past that initial resume scan where they're not really
(26:19):
seeing what you have that you can offer them. And
if you can just tell that story confidently. I do
a lot of practice with people role playing, like tell
me your story, tell me what you have to offer,
and when you can do that convincingly, that can definitely help. Also,
it is, you know, a little bit easier if you're
not pivoting out of the industry and the work that
you're doing. Sometimes you can you know, you can be
(26:42):
a you know, a research analyst at a beverage company
and you may want to pivot into the beauty industry
but still be a research analyst. That may be a
bit easier. Or you know, flip that you're in the
beverage industry as a research analyst, but you want to
be sales, so maybe you stay in beverage, but you
do say instead, so that can be a bit you
(27:02):
know easier. And I just I also think like let's
encourage change, Like let's let's stop thinking of of of
a linear path and just rewrite you know, these like
these stories that we keep telling ourselves about where we
have to go and what's next.
Speaker 3 (27:17):
What's a nine to five entrepreneur me?
Speaker 4 (27:21):
Or it was me, Yeah, so a nine to five entrepreneur. Oh,
those are my favorite people. And I actually think if
you want financial resiliency, I think nine to five entrepreneurship
is a great idea. So that's when you are working
full time for the man, for the corporate and you
are getting your because unfortunately in this country, you got
(27:41):
to do that to get healthcare. For the most part,
you're getting your benefits. You know, you're getting your stable
quote unquote you know, bi weekly paycheck. But then you're
also creating your own business on the side, and business
does not have to mean you have a physical office
space and you have employees.
Speaker 3 (27:59):
It can be.
Speaker 4 (28:00):
For me, it was starting Brown Ambition, that was my
side hustle, now was my main hustle.
Speaker 3 (28:05):
Love it.
Speaker 4 (28:05):
I still got me almost like Brown Ambitions, my nine
to five and Mandy Money Mandy Money Makers is my
passion project.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
Yeah, exactly, Well, I got the kids.
Speaker 4 (28:13):
It's all mixed up.
Speaker 3 (28:14):
It's twenty four hours and I really encourage.
Speaker 4 (28:18):
That one and my brother would be so proud again
because he's like, screw being a starving artist. He's a filmmaker,
but he works in AI sales. He can make a
thirty thousand dollars short film which is incredible by the way,
go see it Thomasville. But he can also like he
shows up and gets his money and that's how he
fuels his passion. Now, I went the starving artist round
(28:39):
trying to be a writer journalist. But I believe in
that strategy. I believe that like the nine to five entrepreneur,
it just makes so much sense. And you don't need
to go and quit your job and then go try
to running a business. Is hella hard?
Speaker 3 (28:55):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (28:55):
I know, so hard.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
I don't even know if my business would exist if
I didn't have a nine to five job, because it
takes a long time to even make money if.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
You ever do and downs.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
But then I also, on the flip side, think that
if I if I spent more time on it and
was there like, because that's the balance that people have
as entrepreneurs. At some point they feel like, maybe I
do have to quit my nine to five in order
to give this all of the attention that it deserves,
because there are people who have done that and felt
like that is the way that they're going to grow
(29:28):
their business to the point because sometimes it is hard
when you have you have kids, you have a family,
you have a nine to five, and you have your entrepreneurship.
Speaker 4 (29:37):
Yeah, so we crash out exactly. Yeah, it's there shoulds,
you know, it really is. It's like you have to
like you're you are figuring out your own path. And
I think social media, especially in the pandemic, you saw
so many business influencers.
Speaker 3 (29:52):
I can teach you how to have an.
Speaker 4 (29:53):
Online business and start a course and start a community.
And you know, I'm looking at all this like maybe
it's gonna be fun for the first year, but you
will hit those ebbs and flows and maybe like marketing
is a long term game, and how do you get
customers coming back they buy from you once and make
them a returning customer. Those are really difficult skills to
(30:14):
teach people just on the internet, and I think I
have I know several and I've been thinking about doing
an episode about this, but five at least influencer creator
friends of mine who left corporate during the pandemic started
their own businesses and are going back to corporate because
even they are like, oh, we like that a little
bit of stability. I can do both and I fully
(30:37):
support it. And we got to stop shutting ourselves to
death trying to think about what I what the business
should be, or what I should be doing. What era
are you in right now? What season are you in?
And how can you meet yourself in that moment. I
got two little kids, and I have a podcast and
another business, so I'm working on my own book, like
I have a lot going on, and each of those,
(30:59):
like am I is brown ambition, like you know, at
the stage I want it to be right now? No,
because I'm just spread in other places a little bit thinner,
you know, So I have to make peace with that
and just accept it and know that I am nurturing
seeds in different pots and that hopefully I'll have a
whole harvest. Oh what a great analogy. Not so corny,
(31:21):
a whole harvest someday.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
I say, you posted about working back working on the
book again. Yeah, and so you went through a lot
I guess before you were able to pick that back up.
Speaker 4 (31:30):
Can you talk about that my book? So the book
is called Brown Ambition. I don't have a subtitle yet.
My publishers like, OK, what is the way. I have
a manuscript deadline tomorrow and I should be working on it. Whoa,
But it's it's an yeh fine, it's great remember those.
But I get to write a book. At the end
of the day, I'm just like, please, like, just you know,
(31:53):
give me this pressure. It's amazing I get to write
a book. No, but the book is a memoir. It's
going to be a memoir, and also it's going to
be I'm going to share all the tools that I've
used to succeed in my career, and not just succeed
because I am not a period pair. At the end
of a paragraph, my story is unfolding as I'm sitting here,
but how I am coping with the inevitable ups and
(32:15):
downs of this big, wild, ambitious life that I have
created for myself. And it's about my relationship with the
word ambition around ambitions the name of our show. But
we're not about you know, it's not about ambition at
any cost. It's about, you know, creating the version of
your life that where you're not surviving but you're actually thriving.
And for me, this book is the culmination of a
(32:37):
career that for me was quite linear. I went, you know,
I was the chocolate chip and the pancake at Business
Insider and then onto Yahoo Finance. Then I segued into
content marketing and I was thriving off that being chosen,
you know, like having the brands pick me and for me.
After I had my son and I wanted to you know,
(33:01):
I really thought, oh, I should take Brown Ambition to
the next level. But I just need one more really
big corporate gig. And I went and I got one,
and I did it because I thought, well, this will
legitimize me, it'll give me the platform, it'll help me
with my brand. And very quickly it was like, oh,
they want a version of me that I'm not willing to,
(33:22):
you know, sacrifice like they wanted. This was post twenty twenty.
They wanted a black woman, but not really a black woman.
And I think I got way too use on Brown
Ambition being my full self and I was like, oh no,
I can't be somewhere where I can't be that. And
when that didn't work out, it was it dispelled that whole.
Like I said earlier, like just like pop that bubble
(33:43):
of looking for that external validation, and I realized I
already had everything I needed to be my own business,
to have my own journey, to do Mandy money Makers,
to do Brown Ambition. I was searching for that validation
and what I thought would give me authority, but I
already had it, and I just once that broke that spell,
(34:03):
I went and did it myself. And I will tell
that story fully and in Brown Ambition and all that
has happened since then.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
How can people work with you if they want to
be a Mandy money Maker, if they want to coach
by and tell the different platforms.
Speaker 4 (34:18):
Well, just listen to Brown Ambition first and foremost. The
podcast is the heart of everything that I have going
on right now. Please listen to Brown Ambition. You can
listen you guys Wealth Wednesdays, listen to BA listen to
the Way Up with angela Ye and Brown Ambition too.
You can find us on ig at Brown Ambition Podcast.
I keep saying us even though I'm like a single lady.
Now the money makers, it's all the Mandy money makers.
(34:43):
And my my other handle is Mandy Money, so that's
where I do the.
Speaker 3 (34:47):
Bulk of Mandy, m A and d I.
Speaker 4 (34:49):
Oh, thank you for that.
Speaker 3 (34:50):
Yeah, although I did get the domain.
Speaker 5 (34:52):
With the Y just in case people redirect them.
Speaker 4 (34:55):
My own family is still with the WI.
Speaker 3 (34:58):
It's fine. So many money.
Speaker 4 (35:00):
That's where I do my negotiation career advice, and all
my info is Mandi money dot com and Brand Ambition
podcast dot com. So yeah, but listen to the show.
Support us.
Speaker 3 (35:10):
You're in this building now, will you come visit us
a lot?
Speaker 4 (35:13):
Oh heck yeah, I Jebby, I mean it.
Speaker 3 (35:16):
I will.
Speaker 4 (35:17):
I like you give me a guest pass and I'll
just show up four hours earlier, make myself out, take
the snack.
Speaker 3 (35:21):
It's Wednesday. Yeah, we got time.
Speaker 5 (35:23):
I got time always now.
Speaker 1 (35:25):
But honestly, this has been amazing, and I know right now.
This is in particular just helpful for people because it
has been a wild time. Like you said, we see
the you know, we see the positive side of things,
but I do know people are going through a lot
right now mentally, So I never want to take away
from that as well. As much as we need to
come together, and I know that a lot of us
(35:47):
are really eager to do that in making those strides
to make that happen, I also know that it's a
tough time for people who are getting laid off, who
are concerned about finances. So many businesses in my neighborhood
in Brooklyn have shut down also, and I've seen businesses
that have been in existence sprick and mortars for like
twenty five years, that are like, we can't sustain this anymore.
(36:09):
And some people even just the pandemic, and then after
the pandemic and then now just all of this uncertainty.
It's just, yeah, it's a really tough time. And so
I always want to take that into account. But again
we still should be ambitious to your point as well,
and so I just want to make sure that we
are in community and that this is a perfect place
(36:30):
for us to be.
Speaker 4 (36:31):
We all love to pivot until someone else pivots for us.
And I think that's what we're going through right now.
Oh for sure, right like, this pivot is happening to
us and that is the worst. You kind of feel
like it's out of your control. But that's also I mean,
it's going to happen at some points. I think we
need to accept it. Things are uncertain. The business may
not the business may not work out like you thought
it would, like I mean, we went through with the
(36:52):
pandemic too. So many of us had the rug pulled
out beneath us who were just launching businesses and they
had to shudder. And I just want to say that
I completely agree, like I support y'all. I feel it.
We're all in it together. And that may sound trite
or it may sound like, oh, it's just like a SoundBite,
but we have to have compassion toward ourselves. We have
(37:14):
to take care of our mental health. We have to
look at for whatever resources and tell your story. Yeah,
tell people what's going on so that our elected officials
hear us, so they know that we are people, not
just statistics or social media handles, like tell your story
of what's happening to you and what these policies are
doing to you, and we need to be amplifying those
(37:35):
stories when we see them.
Speaker 1 (37:37):
And Mandy, I would do want to ask you about this.
So many people are looking for work too, and it
can be discouraging when you're getting a lot of rejections
or maybe even no responses. What would you say to
people who are like, Okay, I want to do this.
I've been looking for work. It's been a long time,
and I'm so discouraged and it's just really like a
lot for me to have to keep on going out
on these interviews and reaching out to people.
Speaker 5 (37:58):
What would you say to somebody in that situation.
Speaker 4 (38:01):
I would say that on average, I think the average
job search today, the last time I checked, was six months.
That's the average amount of time it takes someone who's
looking for a job to get one. And that's a
long time. And I say that just to normalize the
idea that you may be on this journey for a
long time, and if you're someone who's been in a field,
you have lots of experience, and maybe there's not a
(38:22):
cookie cutter roll for you.
Speaker 3 (38:23):
It could take longer than six months.
Speaker 4 (38:25):
So just to normalize that, you want to find a community.
So I have Mandy money Makers where there are women
we meet every other week, and we have women who
are getting raised as successfully and negotiating amazing, and we
have women who have been looking for work for months
on end. But having a space where you can come
and feel support and also just like sitting in the
(38:47):
discomfort of uncertainty is a practice. It is not maybe
what I'm not here to like, I don't have a
five step how to get through that. What I do
know is when you learn how to cope with that
stressful situation, coping skills like having a wellness practice, taking
care of yourself, getting your sleep, so that you can
meet these challenges where they are, and then again actually
(39:11):
telling people what's happening to you and making new connections.
Maybe you need a break from the job search. Maybe
it's a week, maybe it's forty eight hours where you're
not going to look at LinkedIn or indeed at all,
But then you have to get back to it. And
when you do that, think about what can I be
doing in addition to the online searching and applying, And
(39:33):
more often than not, it is speaking to other human beings.
So find an event near you. You can go to
where you're going to be in the same space as
people who will like what you like, or do what
you do, or have an interest that you do, and
be open to the possibility that one of those potential
relationships could turn into your next opportunity. That human impact,
(39:56):
that human connection is the secret sauce that so many
of us are lacking when it comes to being long
term unemployed. We just haven't been able to reach out
to other people who can help us, you know, get
to that next opportunity.
Speaker 3 (40:09):
Before you go. One thing I want you to I
want you to talk to young people. Okay, I was
so young we talking. It's Rachel, I can be Okay.
Speaker 4 (40:17):
College Okay.
Speaker 2 (40:18):
I was visiting my son at college last week and
I noticed so many of the kids have been unable
to get internships this summer. And they don't I guess
it's cool. They'll tell you, oh, here's how to get
a job, here is how to get an internship, but
they don't tell you what the workforce is like. Like,
I spoke to several kids who were applying, you know,
(40:39):
big companies, and they're like, I didn't hear from them.
And then I finally called and they said, I didn't
get it. It didn't occur to them to be proactive yet.
And I really opened my eyes to this is a
really difficult time for young people because they don't this
is their normal and that all we're talking about jobs
drying up, all of their opportunities for career growth and
(41:02):
career development are drying up as well, and they don't
have the they're not at developmental levels yet to really
understand it.
Speaker 3 (41:09):
Will underestimate them.
Speaker 4 (41:11):
The youths, y'all got this, they do. But I mean
I graduated during the recession, during the eight recession and
sorry nine at the time, and I actually I I
thrived in spite of what was happening. I was a
journalism grad. I studied print magazines. Like it shouldn't be
(41:31):
it should not have been legal for me to get
a degree in print magazines at that time two thousand
and nine.
Speaker 3 (41:37):
Yeah, I know.
Speaker 2 (41:38):
And they were saying, there's something different I have noticed
about kids who have lived through COVID.
Speaker 3 (41:44):
Oh, yeah, there is.
Speaker 2 (41:45):
They're they're a little bit different. But I was just like,
we can talk here and take join us, join a community.
Speaker 3 (41:51):
Yeah not out there yet?
Speaker 4 (41:53):
Yeah, no, absolutely, I think that the sooner you can
accept the fact that your journey is going to be
your journey and stop looking outside, whether it's to your parents,
your other friends, the internet, social media, for what your
life should look like after college, Like release yourself from
that and just say, what is one thing, Like what's
one step I can get toward reaching my goal? And
(42:14):
a lot of people who are young have not actually
sat down and wondered, like what do I actually want?
What do I actually want to be? And so what
that answer may be. It may it may not be
that big corporate you know, big name brand corporation that
you want to internet. Maybe it's going home or going
wherever you live and walking down the street and seeing
if there's a business that may be looking for extra
(42:36):
help that maybe they're not the big brand name that
you would see on your resume. In my first job
during the recession, I worked for well One.
Speaker 3 (42:43):
I had traveled.
Speaker 4 (42:43):
Abroad and worked for like a little news site in Santiago, Chile.
I came home and got an education reporter role for
a timey newspaper and like, those were opportunities that I had,
I made the most of them, and I the sooner
you can kind of like be flexible, young people. You
be flexible and take charge of your own story and
(43:06):
not look outside for what you should be doing. Then
you're free to play like you're free to just do whatever,
do something, and if it helps you get to that
next step, if it helps you gain new skills to
get to where you want to go, then that's probably
the right next step for you.
Speaker 3 (43:21):
Thank you. That's great advice.
Speaker 2 (43:22):
They're all trying to get the big company, the big.
Speaker 4 (43:26):
Well, you're the mama of the twenty something. I got
these little ones. I'm just like, are the screens going
to ruin their lives?
Speaker 3 (43:32):
I don't know, right, Thank you so much. Thank you.
Speaker 2 (43:37):
You're upstairs now right, yes, thank you so much, y'all,
and everybody check out bandymoney dot com and a n D.
Speaker 4 (43:46):
I thank y'all, way up
What's up his way up at Angela yee, And it
is my favorite day, a Wealth Wednesday. I got my
partner Stacy Tisdale here.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Happy Wealth Wednesdays everybody, And we have something really special
for you. We know that it is mental Health Awareness months,
so we are going to focus on your mental health
and bring you some Brown Ambition with Mandy Woodruff Santos,
who is the founder of that amazing podcast. If you
haven't heard it, check it out that she founded with
(00:30):
another really good friend of ours, Tiffany the budget nista, Yes,
who recently left Mandy. You'll tell us all about that.
And now Brown Ambition is on iheartline and it's all hers,
And let's start right with that. What was that transition?
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Like, oh, I mean.
Speaker 4 (00:49):
Who likes change? Nobody right, Like it's it's it can
be scary. I know Tiffany and I did the show
together for nine years and she's my girl, like we're sisters.
We start art it as more I would say business associates.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
You know, I was a reporter. I wanted to do
a podcast.
Speaker 4 (01:05):
I was sick of being the only chocolate chip in
the pancake. I was at Yahoo Finance, Business Insider and
I just wanted more of us. I went to this conference.
I met Tiffany and like six other black girls at
this conference, and I was like this, why can't we
just be together more? And so I trapped her into
doing ad I tricked her into doing a podcast with me,
Trick Trip, and it really started as like you're dope.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
You know, she was a financial educator.
Speaker 4 (01:28):
I brought that journalistic you know quality to it, me
my little fex and my like you know objectivity. And
then quickly, you know, or not quickly, over the next
nine years, we just became. We became more than like
just business, you know, partners. And we went through so much,
I mean, the death of her husband, to fertility journey,
my fertility journey, marriage.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
We started the show.
Speaker 4 (01:52):
I was twenty seven, you know, I was a baby,
and so you live a lot of life and we're
so fortunate that we were able to build that sisterhood
and so and she told me it was like, I
think I had a four month heads up. She called me,
I was blown up balloons from a kids party.
Speaker 5 (02:06):
I would never forget that moment.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
Oh no.
Speaker 4 (02:09):
And my son's like, Mommy, what's the matter. And Tiffany's
on the phone like telling me that she's going to
be leaving at the end of the year.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
And I think I was just sad.
Speaker 4 (02:17):
I mean, but Tiff is really good at trusting her gut.
She's taught me so much about just listening to her instinct.
And so from there, we had four months to say goodbye,
and we did it right.
Speaker 3 (02:28):
We did the damn thing. We said goodbye.
Speaker 4 (02:30):
We we had doctor Joy from Therapy.
Speaker 5 (02:33):
For Black Girls come on, Oh nice, nice.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
Coach us through this new transition of our friendship.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
And that's interesting because we had a conversation just up
here the other day about co workers being friends, and
you said, you guys started off really just working together
and then developed a friendship. And for some people that's
really hard to do. And for some people they also
look at just because you work together and you're together
every day, that's supposed to me that your friends automatically,
and that's not always the case.
Speaker 4 (02:58):
Well, that's why I think it was good that we
started off as business. I always say this, like, I
think the show went on has gone on for so long,
and we have not. We rarely take time off, like
we are week after week for nine years. We show
up we record the show. We don't pre tape, we
don't do like episodes in the can. And I think
it's because we weren't so close that we would like
dip on each other.
Speaker 5 (03:17):
We you know, when like you.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Know each other too well, Yeah, kind of take advantage
of the situation.
Speaker 4 (03:23):
Yes, we were both like we still respect.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
It sounds terrible.
Speaker 4 (03:25):
We respected each other a lot, right, So we showed
up and oh, I see her book over there. She's
just incredible. And since she left, I think I was
afraid because I never I never thought about what could
the show be without Tiffany. But and I we literally
talked like twice yesterday once today, and she's so proud
of me, and I am so proud of myself and
her for what we built. I'm so excited to be
(03:48):
a part of the iHeart family.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
Now. I think this is just the beginning.
Speaker 5 (03:51):
And yes, welcome to the family.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
And I want to say, Mandy, we also have to
understand that people just because they go their separate ways
on something doesn't mean that it has to end badly.
And we see all the times people doing podcasts and
they like hate each other and this person is talking
crazy behind the other person's back. But it's great that
you guys are still that close and knowing that this
is gonna come to an end in four months. You
(04:15):
wrapped it out. You did what you had to do,
and now you've had to reimagine what this is like
for you, which is seems like it's going really well.
Speaker 4 (04:22):
Yeah, I mean Brown and Bush, especially in this time.
I really felt like, you know, the election happened, was
I woke up at like four am.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
I went down to my.
Speaker 4 (04:30):
Basement and I looked up my screen and I just
started recording an episode of the podcast. At that time,
my knew Tiffany was gone, what's going to be leaving soon?
And I just felt this like calm come over me
and this power just knowing I'm sure you feel the
same way. You have this platform, and I'm like, what
do I want to say to us? What I want
to say to women of color? And how important is
(04:51):
the work now? And I'm so proud and I feel
like I'm really walking in my purpose now, so helping
us get rich, build generational wealth, build resilience for the
insane times.
Speaker 5 (05:03):
Advocate for ourselves in the workplace.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
So many things.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
When I was listening to you talk about Tiffany, and
I don't know why. It made me think of Angela
and me and I always.
Speaker 5 (05:12):
I thought you're about to leave me.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
No never.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
We started Wealth Wednesdays. I was a guest on the
Breakfast Club and we wanted to just I always say
I felt like I was sitting next to a sister
from another life or something. We just connected and I
decided we wanted to do something powerful in the financial space,
and that's how our relationship and friendship started. I always say, friends,
(05:39):
even partners, sometimes it's good to meet them through work
because you really learn a lot about someone when you
work with them. Like I know a lot of people
who I worked with, some guys, especially on Wall Street,
I'm like, I wonder if their family really.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
Knows what they're like, what they're like.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
But you learn so much about each other and now
it's like, you know, a child together that we've created,
and it's just a beautiful friendship. And when we're lucky,
you guys are lucky and we're lucky that what you
learn about each other just from doing it over and
over again is good and you can grow.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
It's a wonderful partnership.
Speaker 4 (06:16):
It helps if you're both in therapy and Okay, you're
growing as people because I think if that had transition
happened five years ago, it could have been maybe a
little bit sour. But we're just so evolved and so
like in our highest versions of ourselves and.
Speaker 5 (06:31):
Happy for each other, you know what.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
Speaking on this, I want to discuss something that a
lot of people are dealing with right now. And I
know this is something that you've discussed. We see a
lot of businesses struggling, We see people getting laid off,
we see people nervous about what's going to come in
the future. But when you do get laid off, it's
an unfortunate situation. How can you advocate for yourself because
(06:54):
I know SEVENCE packages aren't a must, right, They're not
a given, but it is something that you can negotiate.
Can you talk about that because I know so many
people and it's embarrassing for people as well, and I
want to talk about that too. For some people they
don't even you know, want to tell people shame fa yeah, yeah,
that this is happening to them, and so that part
(07:16):
is also hard. So I want to talk about that
a little bit.
Speaker 4 (07:18):
You know, I think we're in like a very unique time.
It's been a couple of years now where it has
been this this, the economy has been so dicey. It's like,
is it a recession. No, it's not a recession, but
the women I work with, it's very much. It's it
feels like a recession. Like I don't care what the
economists say, what the Fed says, like we are going
through it, and you're right, I mean, layoffs are continuing
(07:39):
to happen. And the unfortunate thing is that, of course, yes,
I want to empower people to negotiate through severance packages,
and you absolutely can if you're lucky to be offered one,
because to your point, packages are not required. Companies literally
only give severance packages because they're afraid of y' all
talking about them on the internet. It's about their reputation,
and you know, they don't want to be own as
(08:00):
a company that has let people go without a dime,
you know.
Speaker 5 (08:03):
For health insurance because health and they think about too.
Speaker 4 (08:06):
But yet it's my my, my good friend, her husband
was recently let go and he worked for a I'm
not going to get too in the weeds, but his
work was funded by the federal government. They lost their
funding because of everything that's been going on, and there
was no money for severance. It was like we got nothing, goodbye.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
That's what's happening to a lot of people.
Speaker 4 (08:25):
Yeah, so I don't want to scare anybody, but that's
the reality. And I think, you know, if you've listened
to Brown Ambition or you've you know, encountered our content.
I'm always talking about a recession proof career, and by
that I mean always expect that, whether it is the
current you know, administration, whether it's changes in your industry,
changes in your life, like ISSU is going to hit
(08:46):
the fan at some point, So like why even pretend
like it's not going to happen. Have your you know,
make sure you're living beneath your means so you can
be saving and investing for long term growth. And for me,
the power of connection and maintaining your relationships. When the
women I work with are recently let go, I'm like,
don't look at your resume, don't go to LinkedIn. Find
(09:07):
five people individuals who you know you have a good
relationship with, who are in your field or professionally you know,
tangential to your field, and contact them and let them
know On a one to one basis, what has happened,
what you want to do next? Start reaching out to people,
and you'd be so surprised. Maybe not how scary and
intimidating that can be, but that is what creates career longevity.
(09:31):
It ain't your resume.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
How do people What do you say to people who
are really crashing right now? I mean, you can be
living beneath your means everything. And you had an one
of your podcasts was really interesting. It's a four hundred
thousand dollars and I'm drowning in credit card debt. And
you and I were having a conversation the other day
and when we've taken care of kids, we've taken care
(09:55):
of parents, we're financial experts, and you look at your finances,
it's like, okay, I want my finances to look different
than that, and I know I had to make peace
with myself. Nothing's gonna be perfec You were raising a
kid and taking care of a parent, it's okay for
things to not be okay, and not internalizing that and
not turning that into you know that whole fear based
(10:16):
thinking and being able to make empowered decisions fixed.
Speaker 3 (10:19):
All that crappy about yourself.
Speaker 4 (10:21):
No, I think you know Stacy and I you were
talking to me on the in the middle of the
second day of a you know, family road trip with
my five year old and my two year old from
New York to Atlanta, where I'm from. We were coming
home and Stacy's like, can you talk? I said, please,
dear lord, someone, I'll talk to anybody, so.
Speaker 5 (10:36):
Like we're the phone a long time.
Speaker 4 (10:38):
But I needed to hear that because I'm at this
stage now where I was doing. I was so smart
when I was twenty four. You do so much. You're like,
you know it all. I'm like, look at my investments.
I'm putting away ten percent in my savings ten percent
and investing. You know, I got all these things set up.
I got the house, I had the.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
Big down payment, cars paid off.
Speaker 4 (10:57):
I was like doing the damn thing. And then I
had these cares and then I left corporate.
Speaker 3 (11:02):
I'm an entrepreneur.
Speaker 4 (11:04):
You know, there's there's ye you know, ebbs and flows,
and I'm in a situation where I am more financially,
like on the cusper, more financially not as resilient, like
I don't have as much of an of an emergency fund,
and I'm like, oh, I'm actually terrible at this, Like,
why is anybody listening to me?
Speaker 3 (11:24):
Am I not?
Speaker 4 (11:24):
What's happened to me? It's supposed to be Mandy money,
Like what's going on?
Speaker 3 (11:28):
And it's that shame and pastor syndrome. It's such shame.
Speaker 4 (11:31):
Yeah, an imposter syndrome. But it's also, like you said,
it's like I am comparing myself to the twenty four
year old version of myself. You had, like only myself
to care about it.
Speaker 5 (11:40):
Yeah, you didn't have all those responsibilities.
Speaker 4 (11:42):
It's really freaking hard. So honestly, what I would say
to anyone crashing out is to accept the crash.
Speaker 3 (11:49):
Know that it will that you can.
Speaker 4 (11:50):
You have everything you need to make small incremental changes,
even if you're feeling like you're drowning right now. Make
one phone call to someone who can support you. You know,
do one search for a credit counseling service. I know
you mentioned that you've worked with the National Foundation for
Credit Counseling. You know, do one balance transfer so that
(12:11):
you can get some high interest credit card debt you know,
transferred over, and that a zero percent intro APR. Just
these small things to give yourself some breathing space and
give yourself grace.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
Right Another thing that people are freaking out about is
when they look at their investments and they.
Speaker 3 (12:27):
Say, nobody's freaking out. Don't look at them.
Speaker 5 (12:29):
I'm just listen.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
But that is the advice that people are giving right now.
Don't even look at your investments. You know, that made
me look it's.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
Different this time around.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
I always tell people that all the time they'll cover
the stock market, it's going to go ups and downs.
Don't look at them. This is different because some things
are being broken right then. Nobody knows how it's going
to play out.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
Like we're literally having a conversation about how paper money is.
Speaker 5 (12:54):
You know, cash is going to not be a thing.
Maybe I don't know anything.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Complete, complete, unknown right now. It makes you think of
how made up everything is, right, Like who said this
piece of paper X, Y and Z and if it
has this number, it's.
Speaker 4 (13:10):
Yeah, I just saw sinners and they're using like plantation
coins these like wooden chips and interesting movie, very interesting,
but yeah, I mean, it's just it makes you feel
how fragile everything is and how it's so much depending
on like a social contract that we have with each
other to just take this stuff seriously. Yeah, it's really
freaking scary. I mean, you can look at your investments.
What I would say is, don't make any like sudden
(13:33):
changes right now based on what's happening. If you're someone
who looked at your investments and you're like, oh god,
they're down more than twenty thirty percent, even maybe fifty percent,
and you're you're losing sleep, you are stressing out, I
think what you're learning is I can't tolerate this kind
of dip, you know. And I think what you're learning
is I need to call my financial advisor, my investment advisor,
get one in the first place, and you know, rebalance
(13:55):
my portfolio so that you're not so leveraged in the
stock market and be you know, buy more bonds.
Speaker 3 (14:02):
You can look at everything, I know, everything, everything.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
Now is not the time to also take that money
out right, well, you know, until you.
Speaker 4 (14:12):
Take it out right, Yeah, I wouldn't. I absolutely mean,
there's these rules of thumb that I have been harping on.
I know you, Stacey, have a long career in person.
We've been saying the same stuff for decades now, but.
Speaker 5 (14:22):
It is feel different.
Speaker 3 (14:23):
Who knows who knows, who knows?
Speaker 2 (14:28):
I don't have it, But there's optimism and are I'm
gonna call it many and Stacy's car ride.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
Now and our car ride.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
We also got to of course, a really beautiful place
and a lot of the black women. Brown Ambition really
is focused on black women. There's an optimism, yeah, and
there's kind of a stepping back. And we were talking
a lot about how, you know, Vice President Harris was
(14:56):
if she would have won, black women would have felt
so great because it's for like we've finally been accepted
and acknowledged. But it's a system that was never designed
for us, so us waiting for that approval, it was
just never ever ever gonna come. So now just stepping back,
okay and just creating our own system. We're seeing a
lot of people do that.
Speaker 3 (15:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (15:16):
I mean, I'm I feel like it gave us permission
to let go of trying to get that external validation
from these corporations. Even becoming, you know, having Brown Ambition
be legitimized, quote unquote getting on the iHeart Network. That's
very exciting. But I also feel very much that like
Brown Ambition as its own brand in my platform, I'm
(15:36):
so proud of it.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
I see the value in it.
Speaker 4 (15:38):
It's great to get these external you know, these external
people and companies and corporations and yes, governments to say that,
yes we want to you're accepted here. But I think
absolutely Kamala Harris's you know, tragic loss was almost a
win for black women because we got to stop. We
got to kill the fairy tale for once and for all. Yes,
(16:00):
saving us, No one's saving us.
Speaker 3 (16:02):
And they never were going to and they never said
they were going.
Speaker 4 (16:04):
Even if they did, even if she had won, it
would have been an issue. You know, who knows, right.
And I'm glad that the it's weird saying, but yeah,
I'm glad that the that the outcome was what it was.
And I am see I'm hearing so much optimism and
so much empowerment, like let's build, let's create, let's be
in community together and save each other, and yeah, the
(16:27):
world's burning, but we're going to be over here. I
got community garden going, my neighbors and I were growing
our own food.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
We started our real estate club with that super mentality.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
Yeah, you know, at times like this, it's really we
have done so many things in the past with so
many obstacles in our way, and so I just feel like,
now this is just the twenty twenty five iteration of
us having to do that yet again. But we are
we are a lot more powerful.
Speaker 4 (16:54):
You know.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
I was looking at Lisa Price getting back control of
Carol's daughter, and that's a company that she started, you know,
literally before all these she was super.
Speaker 5 (17:03):
Early on it.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
I think it was like nineteen ninety something, you know,
that she started it and then sold it to Lareal
and now they sold it and she's you know, back
on board. Is like the president overseeing things with equity
in it. And that's a great feeling to have been
able to create something. I saw Pinky. I don't know
what her full situation is. She's the comeback yeah with
Slutty Vegan, but now.
Speaker 4 (17:24):
Gp Henson too took her. She took ownership of her
hair care brand.
Speaker 5 (17:28):
Oh okay, I like her. Okay.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
So that's what I'm saying. These things are so important
and also what's important, and this is a conversation that
I've been having with coach Jesse, but also making sure
we know what ingredients are in the products that we're using,
because there's a lot of things that are causing all
kinds of health issues for black women and our products
that are targeted for us, but we don't understand this
is also what's making us sick, you know what I mean.
(17:51):
And so I think it's so important for us to
be right there front and center supporting those businesses but
also leading those businesses.
Speaker 4 (17:59):
Yes, it's a little plug for pattern because I do
be using products all of that.
Speaker 5 (18:03):
That's what I have in my hair right now. The Moose. Okay,
it's so good.
Speaker 3 (18:06):
Yeah, yeah, I love us so much.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
So people can also work with you. So everybody's going
to listen to Brown Ambition.
Speaker 4 (18:13):
Oh please do Yeah, every Wednesday and Friday.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
Every Wednesday and Friday. And there's also Mandy money Makers,
which is an incredible speaking of community.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (18:22):
I teach a lot of women of color how to
quit their jobs and how to negotiate incredible salaries. And
it's my favorite thing in the entire world to teach,
to teach other women how to be badasses and how
to how do not necessarily fight for their worth because
I'm not one to say, like, you know, there's a
book on my desk right now, and it's like unrig
the game and I don't necessarily think it's our responsibility
(18:43):
to fix what's already broken, to make like, to make
our bosses value us and all of that. What I
do believe is that it's what we can control is
the value that we're bringing. We can control the way
that we perceive ourselves, the confidence we bring into a role,
and advocating for ourselves, just saying simply, even in times
(19:03):
like this, I have people in my community, Manny money
makers who are asking for raises and getting them.
Speaker 5 (19:09):
Yes, Mandy, I wanted.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
So.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
I heard two different opinions on this in the last
week about whether you should throw out a number when
you go in so one person said, and these are
like financial experts. One person was like, you should let
them always like kind of go so you can see
where they're coming, because what if they offer you more
than what you were even going to ask for. And
then I've heard, you know, obviously the flip side, which
(19:32):
is what I hear more frequently, is that you need
to go in there with a number that you're asking for.
Speaker 4 (19:36):
I mean, I think it depends on what level you
are in your career, Like I think you have, for example, Angela,
like you have had such a storied career. I feel
like at this point you probably do have that, Like
I'm not getting out of bed for less than whatever.
We're like, I really know my value. You probably also have,
I hope, a network of similarly situated people who you
can rely on to tell you what's realistic and what
you should be asking for. Just this morning, Tiffany was like, Oh,
(19:59):
don't do that. You know, ask for this. And I
think if you're more advanced in your career, it's easier
to come in with a certain expectation of what you want. Now,
if you're earlier in your career, you know, mid entry level,
and you are coming to the table, you don't know
the other person on the other side of the negotiating table,
they don't know you. I do think the advice of
not giving a number it makes sense because, especially early
(20:20):
in your career, you don't have enough information potentially to
be throwing out numbers. You definitely could low ball yourself.
And so I do think that advice applies. And I
think it's also just a good time to remind you
all that all these various opinions are wonderful. I love
that you had two different versions of that advice because
we need to be open to what's going to fit
(20:41):
this situation, right, and the you know.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
Person journalistically and we're both financial journalists, also know the
numbers and know the situation before you get into that.
Because the Reality Economic Bureau of Research, ninety two percent
of men negotiate their first salary, seven percent of women
negotiate their first salary. Not negotiating your first salary cost
(21:05):
about eight hundred and fifty thousand dollars over the life
of a career. Now imagine that invested. So knowing like
you were saying, talking to people emotionally about you know
why you should and should negotiate. That's one thing, but
also fill your head with facts and you know, take
those things into consideration. And I mean, I also hope
(21:27):
you make the decisions you're gonna hear. No.
Speaker 4 (21:29):
I mean I was a country level and I was like,
can I have more money please? And they said no,
it's a recession. This was twenty eleven after the Great Recession,
and they're like, no, you want this job or not,
come get your little thirty five K. I was like,
you're right, absolutely, I will, I can I wear I
have no, I will be packing my bags up back
on the midnight train to Georgia if I don't take
(21:50):
this job, so absolutely I have no leverage. Got it
and for me, But the practice of asking and hearing
no early in your career, I do believe it's really
important because you will get to that. Yes, the more
you prove yourself and you build your brand and you
have your portfolio of work, your experience, but you do
need to get You need to be able to withstand
the nose and yeah, they and even when you deserve it,
(22:14):
and all the research you've done shows you should be
getting something, and they still say, no, that's information you
can use. Okay, so this isn't the place it's gonna
value me.
Speaker 3 (22:20):
So I got to be always.
Speaker 4 (22:22):
Be looking for more opportunities, always keeping your network warm,
you know, have a coffee, you know, have a check
in with mentors of yours, peers of yours, and just
make it a practice to stay connected. I think the
pandemic created this idea that we could just all go
in under our like snuggies and like never leave the
house and cancel plans with people. Don't cancel plans, show
(22:43):
up because those are the people.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
Who can show up for you.
Speaker 4 (22:46):
So I'm like, I'm an introvert, I'm pushing myself. I'm
going to need a big nap after this conversation.
Speaker 3 (22:52):
I'm giving a lot and that's okay.
Speaker 4 (22:55):
But like, now I've met two incredible, you know women,
and we can support each other, and like that's that's
the advice I wish I wish more moment of color
were taking. Is like, push yourself out of your comfort zone.
We kind of get so much further when we nurture
those relationships.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
How is it when it's time to switch, because you
know a lot of times you do want to switch years.
Maybe you've been doing something for X amount of time,
but now I want to switch over to another path.
But now I got to start at the bottom, right, Yeah,
talk to me about that.
Speaker 5 (23:25):
I actually it's interesting.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
This whole conversation makes me think about when I first
started doing radio and I had to really take like
a severe cut in what I was making.
Speaker 5 (23:34):
Yeah, like thank you, iHeart.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
But but when I first started, I knew that I
had never done radio before.
Speaker 5 (23:42):
So I did accept that, but it was kind of
hard for me.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
I did negotiate though, after a year and got a
forty percent raise and they were.
Speaker 3 (23:50):
Really underpaying you.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
They were absolutely sounds like a lot, but you know
it's not a lot when you're not making a lot.
Speaker 3 (23:57):
So it's just because you wanted to switch into Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
So I switched into radio to make, you know, way
less than what I was making doing marketing.
Speaker 5 (24:04):
But I also knew this was something.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
That I had to like start that way because I
didn't have anything to point to to be like, well,
I've done this, I've done that. I have relationships they
don't care, and like you said, it is a feel
that it is not easy to make a lot of
money in and so I started there. And then it's
also hard if you don't negotiate your salary to negotiate
that race because you're starting at such a bottom. You
(24:27):
point as well, And these are all things that I
had to take into consideration when it came to that.
But when you want to switch into a new field,
how do you approach that?
Speaker 4 (24:37):
Well, I think the first thing is to not tell
yourself that you're for sure going to have to take
a pay cut, especially if you're more advanced in your career.
Speaker 3 (24:43):
You have to own your story. And I was just
talking to my brother. My brother's in AI.
Speaker 4 (24:47):
Sales, and he and I are so different. He's like
mister business and I'm like, oh, artsy and that's.
Speaker 3 (24:53):
Me and my brother see free.
Speaker 4 (24:54):
And but what we both agree on is how essential
storytelling is to his success as a sales director and
as my success as a creator, as a writer, as
a journalist. Because you walk into an interview and like,
I'll just give an example. Let's say I'm a teacher,
I want to transition into tech. I want to do
I want to be a salesperson, and I walk into
an interview if I get one and they're like, okay,
so I see that you've been teaching science for ten years,
(25:17):
like or just are you in the right place? And
you can go, oh yeah, yeah, you know, like I
always love teaching, but you know, like this doesn't pay
that great and you're like not sure of your story.
But if you go in there and you're like, have
you seen abbat Elementary? That is the hardest work of
my life. I can do anything. Now I am a
(25:38):
powerhouse and selling this product which I can I can
teach anyone about because I have these skills as a teacher,
and really, sales is about explaining the mission behind a product.
And getting people to buy in, Oh, I'm your girl.
Then that's a very different conversation. The other person's going
to believe in you because they're going to feel that
confidence from yourself.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
So you got to own that story.
Speaker 4 (25:58):
So if you're pivoting from one place to the next,
and this is another reason to not just just focus
on your resume and apply for a job, you need
to get in front of people. You need to like
get on the phone with somebody, so a contact who
knows people who may be hiring, because they need to
see you. They need to hear your story, so they
want to root for you, so they will help you
get past that initial resume scan where they're not really
(26:19):
seeing what you have that you can offer them. And
if you can just tell that story confidently. I do
a lot of practice with people role playing, like tell
me your story, tell me what you have to offer,
and when you can do that convincingly, that can definitely help. Also,
it is, you know, a little bit easier if you're
not pivoting out of the industry and the work that
you're doing. Sometimes you can you know, you can be
(26:42):
a you know, a research analyst at a beverage company
and you may want to pivot into the beauty industry
but still be a research analyst. That may be a
bit easier. Or you know, flip that you're in the
beverage industry as a research analyst, but you want to
be sales, so maybe you stay in beverage, but you
do say instead, so that can be a bit you
(27:02):
know easier. And I just I also think like let's
encourage change, Like let's let's stop thinking of of of
a linear path and just rewrite you know, these like
these stories that we keep telling ourselves about where we
have to go and what's next.
Speaker 3 (27:17):
What's a nine to five entrepreneur me?
Speaker 4 (27:21):
Or it was me, Yeah, so a nine to five entrepreneur. Oh,
those are my favorite people. And I actually think if
you want financial resiliency, I think nine to five entrepreneurship
is a great idea. So that's when you are working
full time for the man, for the corporate and you
are getting your because unfortunately in this country, you got
(27:41):
to do that to get healthcare. For the most part,
you're getting your benefits. You know, you're getting your stable
quote unquote you know, bi weekly paycheck. But then you're
also creating your own business on the side, and business
does not have to mean you have a physical office
space and you have employees.
Speaker 3 (27:59):
It can be.
Speaker 4 (28:00):
For me, it was starting Brown Ambition, that was my
side hustle, now was my main hustle.
Speaker 3 (28:05):
Love it.
Speaker 4 (28:05):
I still got me almost like Brown Ambitions, my nine
to five and Mandy Money Mandy Money Makers is my
passion project.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
Yeah, exactly, Well, I got the kids.
Speaker 4 (28:13):
It's all mixed up.
Speaker 3 (28:14):
It's twenty four hours and I really encourage.
Speaker 4 (28:18):
That one and my brother would be so proud again
because he's like, screw being a starving artist. He's a filmmaker,
but he works in AI sales. He can make a
thirty thousand dollars short film which is incredible by the way,
go see it Thomasville. But he can also like he
shows up and gets his money and that's how he
fuels his passion. Now, I went the starving artist round
(28:39):
trying to be a writer journalist. But I believe in
that strategy. I believe that like the nine to five entrepreneur,
it just makes so much sense. And you don't need
to go and quit your job and then go try
to running a business. Is hella hard?
Speaker 3 (28:55):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (28:55):
I know, so hard.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
I don't even know if my business would exist if
I didn't have a nine to five job, because it
takes a long time to even make money if.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
You ever do and downs.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
But then I also, on the flip side, think that
if I if I spent more time on it and
was there like, because that's the balance that people have
as entrepreneurs. At some point they feel like, maybe I
do have to quit my nine to five in order
to give this all of the attention that it deserves,
because there are people who have done that and felt
like that is the way that they're going to grow
(29:28):
their business to the point because sometimes it is hard
when you have you have kids, you have a family,
you have a nine to five, and you have your entrepreneurship.
Speaker 4 (29:37):
Yeah, so we crash out exactly. Yeah, it's there shoulds,
you know, it really is. It's like you have to
like you're you are figuring out your own path. And
I think social media, especially in the pandemic, you saw
so many business influencers.
Speaker 3 (29:52):
I can teach you how to have an.
Speaker 4 (29:53):
Online business and start a course and start a community.
And you know, I'm looking at all this like maybe
it's gonna be fun for the first year, but you
will hit those ebbs and flows and maybe like marketing
is a long term game, and how do you get
customers coming back they buy from you once and make
them a returning customer. Those are really difficult skills to
(30:14):
teach people just on the internet, and I think I
have I know several and I've been thinking about doing
an episode about this, but five at least influencer creator
friends of mine who left corporate during the pandemic started
their own businesses and are going back to corporate because
even they are like, oh, we like that a little
bit of stability. I can do both and I fully
(30:37):
support it. And we got to stop shutting ourselves to
death trying to think about what I what the business
should be, or what I should be doing. What era
are you in right now? What season are you in?
And how can you meet yourself in that moment. I
got two little kids, and I have a podcast and
another business, so I'm working on my own book, like
I have a lot going on, and each of those,
(30:59):
like am I is brown ambition, like you know, at
the stage I want it to be right now? No,
because I'm just spread in other places a little bit thinner,
you know, So I have to make peace with that
and just accept it and know that I am nurturing
seeds in different pots and that hopefully I'll have a
whole harvest. Oh what a great analogy. Not so corny,
(31:21):
a whole harvest someday.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
I say, you posted about working back working on the
book again. Yeah, and so you went through a lot
I guess before you were able to pick that back up.
Speaker 4 (31:30):
Can you talk about that my book? So the book
is called Brown Ambition. I don't have a subtitle yet.
My publishers like, OK, what is the way. I have
a manuscript deadline tomorrow and I should be working on it. Whoa,
But it's it's an yeh fine, it's great remember those.
But I get to write a book. At the end
of the day, I'm just like, please, like, just you know,
(31:53):
give me this pressure. It's amazing I get to write
a book. No, but the book is a memoir. It's
going to be a memoir, and also it's going to
be I'm going to share all the tools that I've
used to succeed in my career, and not just succeed
because I am not a period pair. At the end
of a paragraph, my story is unfolding as I'm sitting here,
but how I am coping with the inevitable ups and
(32:15):
downs of this big, wild, ambitious life that I have
created for myself. And it's about my relationship with the
word ambition around ambitions the name of our show. But
we're not about you know, it's not about ambition at
any cost. It's about, you know, creating the version of
your life that where you're not surviving but you're actually thriving.
And for me, this book is the culmination of a
(32:37):
career that for me was quite linear. I went, you know,
I was the chocolate chip and the pancake at Business
Insider and then onto Yahoo Finance. Then I segued into
content marketing and I was thriving off that being chosen,
you know, like having the brands pick me and for me.
After I had my son and I wanted to you know,
(33:01):
I really thought, oh, I should take Brown Ambition to
the next level. But I just need one more really
big corporate gig. And I went and I got one,
and I did it because I thought, well, this will
legitimize me, it'll give me the platform, it'll help me
with my brand. And very quickly it was like, oh,
they want a version of me that I'm not willing to,
(33:22):
you know, sacrifice like they wanted. This was post twenty twenty.
They wanted a black woman, but not really a black woman.
And I think I got way too use on Brown
Ambition being my full self and I was like, oh no,
I can't be somewhere where I can't be that. And
when that didn't work out, it was it dispelled that whole.
Like I said earlier, like just like pop that bubble
(33:43):
of looking for that external validation, and I realized I
already had everything I needed to be my own business,
to have my own journey, to do Mandy money Makers,
to do Brown Ambition. I was searching for that validation
and what I thought would give me authority, but I
already had it, and I just once that broke that spell,
(34:03):
I went and did it myself. And I will tell
that story fully and in Brown Ambition and all that
has happened since then.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
How can people work with you if they want to
be a Mandy money Maker, if they want to coach
by and tell the different platforms.
Speaker 4 (34:18):
Well, just listen to Brown Ambition first and foremost. The
podcast is the heart of everything that I have going
on right now. Please listen to Brown Ambition. You can
listen you guys Wealth Wednesdays, listen to BA listen to
the Way Up with angela Ye and Brown Ambition too.
You can find us on ig at Brown Ambition Podcast.
I keep saying us even though I'm like a single lady.
Now the money makers, it's all the Mandy money makers.
(34:43):
And my my other handle is Mandy Money, so that's
where I do the.
Speaker 3 (34:47):
Bulk of Mandy, m A and d I.
Speaker 4 (34:49):
Oh, thank you for that.
Speaker 3 (34:50):
Yeah, although I did get the domain.
Speaker 5 (34:52):
With the Y just in case people redirect them.
Speaker 4 (34:55):
My own family is still with the WI.
Speaker 3 (34:58):
It's fine. So many money.
Speaker 4 (35:00):
That's where I do my negotiation career advice, and all
my info is Mandi money dot com and Brand Ambition
podcast dot com. So yeah, but listen to the show.
Support us.
Speaker 3 (35:10):
You're in this building now, will you come visit us
a lot?
Speaker 4 (35:13):
Oh heck yeah, I Jebby, I mean it.
Speaker 3 (35:16):
I will.
Speaker 4 (35:17):
I like you give me a guest pass and I'll
just show up four hours earlier, make myself out, take
the snack.
Speaker 3 (35:21):
It's Wednesday. Yeah, we got time.
Speaker 5 (35:23):
I got time always now.
Speaker 1 (35:25):
But honestly, this has been amazing, and I know right now.
This is in particular just helpful for people because it
has been a wild time. Like you said, we see
the you know, we see the positive side of things,
but I do know people are going through a lot
right now mentally, So I never want to take away
from that as well. As much as we need to
come together, and I know that a lot of us
(35:47):
are really eager to do that in making those strides
to make that happen, I also know that it's a
tough time for people who are getting laid off, who
are concerned about finances. So many businesses in my neighborhood
in Brooklyn have shut down also, and I've seen businesses
that have been in existence sprick and mortars for like
twenty five years, that are like, we can't sustain this anymore.
(36:09):
And some people even just the pandemic, and then after
the pandemic and then now just all of this uncertainty.
It's just, yeah, it's a really tough time. And so
I always want to take that into account. But again
we still should be ambitious to your point as well,
and so I just want to make sure that we
are in community and that this is a perfect place
(36:30):
for us to be.
Speaker 4 (36:31):
We all love to pivot until someone else pivots for us.
And I think that's what we're going through right now.
Oh for sure, right like, this pivot is happening to
us and that is the worst. You kind of feel
like it's out of your control. But that's also I mean,
it's going to happen at some points. I think we
need to accept it. Things are uncertain. The business may
not the business may not work out like you thought
it would, like I mean, we went through with the
(36:52):
pandemic too. So many of us had the rug pulled
out beneath us who were just launching businesses and they
had to shudder. And I just want to say that
I completely agree, like I support y'all. I feel it.
We're all in it together. And that may sound trite
or it may sound like, oh, it's just like a SoundBite,
but we have to have compassion toward ourselves. We have
(37:14):
to take care of our mental health. We have to
look at for whatever resources and tell your story. Yeah,
tell people what's going on so that our elected officials
hear us, so they know that we are people, not
just statistics or social media handles, like tell your story
of what's happening to you and what these policies are
doing to you, and we need to be amplifying those
(37:35):
stories when we see them.
Speaker 1 (37:37):
And Mandy, I would do want to ask you about this.
So many people are looking for work too, and it
can be discouraging when you're getting a lot of rejections
or maybe even no responses. What would you say to
people who are like, Okay, I want to do this.
I've been looking for work. It's been a long time,
and I'm so discouraged and it's just really like a
lot for me to have to keep on going out
on these interviews and reaching out to people.
Speaker 5 (37:58):
What would you say to somebody in that situation.
Speaker 4 (38:01):
I would say that on average, I think the average
job search today, the last time I checked, was six months.
That's the average amount of time it takes someone who's
looking for a job to get one. And that's a
long time. And I say that just to normalize the
idea that you may be on this journey for a
long time, and if you're someone who's been in a field,
you have lots of experience, and maybe there's not a
(38:22):
cookie cutter roll for you.
Speaker 3 (38:23):
It could take longer than six months.
Speaker 4 (38:25):
So just to normalize that, you want to find a community.
So I have Mandy money Makers where there are women
we meet every other week, and we have women who
are getting raised as successfully and negotiating amazing, and we
have women who have been looking for work for months
on end. But having a space where you can come
and feel support and also just like sitting in the
(38:47):
discomfort of uncertainty is a practice. It is not maybe
what I'm not here to like, I don't have a
five step how to get through that. What I do
know is when you learn how to cope with that
stressful situation, coping skills like having a wellness practice, taking
care of yourself, getting your sleep, so that you can
meet these challenges where they are, and then again actually
(39:11):
telling people what's happening to you and making new connections.
Maybe you need a break from the job search. Maybe
it's a week, maybe it's forty eight hours where you're
not going to look at LinkedIn or indeed at all,
But then you have to get back to it. And
when you do that, think about what can I be
doing in addition to the online searching and applying, And
(39:33):
more often than not, it is speaking to other human beings.
So find an event near you. You can go to
where you're going to be in the same space as
people who will like what you like, or do what
you do, or have an interest that you do, and
be open to the possibility that one of those potential
relationships could turn into your next opportunity. That human impact,
(39:56):
that human connection is the secret sauce that so many
of us are lacking when it comes to being long
term unemployed. We just haven't been able to reach out
to other people who can help us, you know, get
to that next opportunity.
Speaker 3 (40:09):
Before you go. One thing I want you to I
want you to talk to young people. Okay, I was
so young we talking. It's Rachel, I can be Okay.
Speaker 4 (40:17):
College Okay.
Speaker 2 (40:18):
I was visiting my son at college last week and
I noticed so many of the kids have been unable
to get internships this summer. And they don't I guess
it's cool. They'll tell you, oh, here's how to get
a job, here is how to get an internship, but
they don't tell you what the workforce is like. Like,
I spoke to several kids who were applying, you know,
(40:39):
big companies, and they're like, I didn't hear from them.
And then I finally called and they said, I didn't
get it. It didn't occur to them to be proactive yet.
And I really opened my eyes to this is a
really difficult time for young people because they don't this
is their normal and that all we're talking about jobs
drying up, all of their opportunities for career growth and
(41:02):
career development are drying up as well, and they don't
have the they're not at developmental levels yet to really
understand it.
Speaker 3 (41:09):
Will underestimate them.
Speaker 4 (41:11):
The youths, y'all got this, they do. But I mean
I graduated during the recession, during the eight recession and
sorry nine at the time, and I actually I I
thrived in spite of what was happening. I was a
journalism grad. I studied print magazines. Like it shouldn't be
(41:31):
it should not have been legal for me to get
a degree in print magazines at that time two thousand
and nine.
Speaker 3 (41:37):
Yeah, I know.
Speaker 2 (41:38):
And they were saying, there's something different I have noticed
about kids who have lived through COVID.
Speaker 3 (41:44):
Oh, yeah, there is.
Speaker 2 (41:45):
They're they're a little bit different. But I was just like,
we can talk here and take join us, join a community.
Speaker 3 (41:51):
Yeah not out there yet?
Speaker 4 (41:53):
Yeah, no, absolutely, I think that the sooner you can
accept the fact that your journey is going to be
your journey and stop looking outside, whether it's to your parents,
your other friends, the internet, social media, for what your
life should look like after college, Like release yourself from
that and just say, what is one thing, Like what's
one step I can get toward reaching my goal? And
(42:14):
a lot of people who are young have not actually
sat down and wondered, like what do I actually want?
What do I actually want to be? And so what
that answer may be. It may it may not be
that big corporate you know, big name brand corporation that
you want to internet. Maybe it's going home or going
wherever you live and walking down the street and seeing
if there's a business that may be looking for extra
(42:36):
help that maybe they're not the big brand name that
you would see on your resume. In my first job
during the recession, I worked for well One.
Speaker 3 (42:43):
I had traveled.
Speaker 4 (42:43):
Abroad and worked for like a little news site in Santiago, Chile.
I came home and got an education reporter role for
a timey newspaper and like, those were opportunities that I had,
I made the most of them, and I the sooner
you can kind of like be flexible, young people. You
be flexible and take charge of your own story and
(43:06):
not look outside for what you should be doing. Then
you're free to play like you're free to just do whatever,
do something, and if it helps you get to that
next step, if it helps you gain new skills to
get to where you want to go, then that's probably
the right next step for you.
Speaker 3 (43:21):
Thank you. That's great advice.
Speaker 2 (43:22):
They're all trying to get the big company, the big.
Speaker 4 (43:26):
Well, you're the mama of the twenty something. I got
these little ones. I'm just like, are the screens going
to ruin their lives?
Speaker 3 (43:32):
I don't know, right, Thank you so much. Thank you.
Speaker 2 (43:37):
You're upstairs now right, yes, thank you so much, y'all,
and everybody check out bandymoney dot com and a n D.
Speaker 4 (43:46):
I thank y'all, way up
Way Up With Angela Yee News
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