April 19, 2025 • 23 mins
Jana Kramer is trying to find a match for her single real-life bestie Pamelyn! A divorced mom of two, Pamelyn lives in the Nashville area.
Do you have a friend, a brother, an uncle, maybe even your ex or your dad who is single and ready to mingle??!!
Jana gets the full story on Pamelyn's divorce - and why she even kept Jana in the dark till it was all over.
Then, it’s on! Let’s find Pamelyn her I do part 2!
Email us at: IDOPOD@iheartradio.com or call us at 844-4-I Do Pod (844-443-6763)
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
Welcome back to I Do Part two. I'm one of
your hosts, Jana Kramer, and today is a very exciting
episode because we talk a lot about celebrities and what's
going on in their lives. But today I wanted to
bring in my own real life, regular divorced single friend
who's amazing and open to finding love. So everyone, welcome
Pamelin onto the podcast. Having So I'm just so excited
(00:38):
about this for a few reasons. One because I mean, look,
I love I love doing the show when I'm able
to come on and interview people. But and this is
no offense, like to the Bachelorette people out there, the models,
I mean, we love Kelly Bensimone, we love her. I
mean she's a she's a beautiful, stunning model, and you
(00:59):
know she is going through her her journey of you know,
being divorced and finding love. And we've got Bachelorettes and
bachelorett you know, so it's like love all of them. Sure,
But I had this thought when we I mean, you're
my best friend, yes number one. Number two, We're walking
and I'm I've obviously been on this journey with you,
(01:20):
and I'm like, why isn't Pamelin on I do part
two because this is again no offense to the to
the other amazing hosts that we've had on here, in
the celebrities that we've had on here. But you are
dealing with this not in you know, not like that
didn't you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
I'm trying to say, not.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
In the public I am most real, normal person view
of you know, what's really happening.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
Yeah, and I think it's for me I relate more
to people that are really going through it and not
in the public eye. Right.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
Well, I think that sometimes when you're in the public eye,
you do have a different experience because you may be
more accessible to more people, right because your story's out there, right,
I mean you.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
I mean, I don't want to say it, but I mean,
you know, more people maybe would have found me from
It's like I found my husband on Instagram because he
found you know so.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
And at this point it it kind of comes down
to a numbers game.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
I feel like a lot of things are numbers games.
I had to date a lot of people. Yeah, you
do find the right one, yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
And you start to you know, figure out what you
actually want instead of you know, just trying to have
somebody choose you, or you be the one that somebody likes, Like, no,
what exactly do I want?
Speaker 1 (02:45):
Well, so we're obviously going to talk about dating because
that is one of our hot topics on our walks
around the neighborhood because we're also I don't want we're
best friends, but we're neighbors, and so we go on
walks and I'm hearing it all and we're going to
to talk about all that. But first I want to
back up because I know Pamelin and I am honored
(03:07):
to know you. But I want other people listening, and
I also want a potential suitor to be hearing this too,
to get a little piece into who you are, what
has been your journey thus far and before the dating world.
So let's back it up. I give us the where
are you from? Along remarried, let's do it?
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Do it well.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
I'm originally from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, and I'm very proud of that.
You also know the version of Pittsburgh Pam and she
comes out.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Let me tell you about Pittsburgh Pam. She's a good
friend to have.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
So you know, I have these kind of blue collared
roots and then I came here to Nashville from Los Angeles.
I lived there for eleven years and that's where I
met my ex husband and I had my two beautiful
daughters there and we moved here in twenty nineteen. I
was married for ten years.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
And you had quite a dating history too, I mean,
with the fact that you didn't really.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Date a lot of people.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
True. Yeah, I since as far as I can remember,
I've just been very intentional about dating or boyfriends. I
would have a boyfriend for three four years and then
I wouldn't date at all for three four years. It
was kind of like it was just something I would
(04:39):
feel an energy, and then I just knew that it
was going to be it. And if I didn't have
that feeling, I just didn't entertain. I didn't need to be,
you know, going on dates. I was building my career.
I had amazing friendships, and so it wasn't ever really
anything that I felt like I had to have if
it fell into my lap, and you know, it was
(05:00):
an amazing experience. I totally put forth all of my
effort into that, but it was never it was really
always always quality over quantity, for sure.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
So I mean I really only had I don't know
because I know the hockey. There was a hockey guy.
There was a football right. I mean I had a
really I had a four and a half year relationship,
and he was financed, he was not exactly, but and
we lived together and we had a business together and
all the things. Yeah, when I thought about my future,
(05:39):
I just didn't think that he was going to be,
you know, the one to love me like I wanted
to be.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Loved, which is interesting in hindsight. In hindsight, oh my gosh,
I mean it was crazy. I lived together. I mean,
I loved his family, It was.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
It was great in a lot of ways, which I
don't think he was capable of loving me enough.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
And so I think that's a.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
Big takeaway with a lot of people trying to like
navigate this whole world, is you can have beautiful relationships,
you can really really want that person in your life forever,
but if they are not capable of meeting we're meeting
you where you're at, then there's this just lost hope
(06:27):
and then we're wasting time and we're we're wanting somebody
to give us something that they cannot give us. And
you know, we have to get out of that cycle
and really understanding like what is, what are they capable of?
What can they do instead of just like romanticizing or
(06:48):
being excited about the potential.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
Right of somebody.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
Isn't that an interesting thought though, because that's the majority
of why we get divorced, is because they can't meet
our needs. Yeah, so really what we're wanting you realizing
the person that you pick didn't meet your needs. I
mean my ex husband didn't meet my needs obviously, sure,
And I.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
Think you know, a lot of that does come down
to communication too. So if we are not properly communicating,
you know, to somebody what exactly we need, and especially
to men, we almost have to like lay it out
in bullet points, like on a silver platter and hand
it to them and say, you know, this is actually
what I need, and a lot of men will then
(07:29):
give it to you. I mean, if you're really laying
it out. I mean some you know, of course some
are not going to. But we cannot expect anybody to
read our minds and know what we want because we
all are so different. And so maybe in a past relationship,
a woman or a man needed X, Y and Z,
Well we're not the same person and so I think
(07:49):
that when it comes down to it, it's the communication
that is first lacking that then causes you know, the
needs aren't being met.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
To back up to when you met your ex. And
again this I don't want this pod. This isn't about
him and y'all just divorce. This is about you and
your journey. But I'm just curious to see because a
lot of people that listen are around that thirty to
forty age range, which if they don't have kids, they're
(08:30):
wanting to have kids. And I always kind of wonder.
And I've never asked you this, so you can pass
if you want, but for me, and I've spoken openly
about this, where I looked away from flags because I
wanted to be a mom. You know, I still think
I probably would have ended up with my ex just
(08:50):
because I was so I didn't think I deserved certain things.
But I truly, at my core, I was like, I
need to be a mom, and this is my best
option that I have right here, as I you know,
as at thirty. And what's so sad is now I
look back, I'm like, man, thirty.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
So young, Yeah, you know, so young.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
I'm like, oh, like you you and you don't realize
how fast things can change on a dime at thirty four,
thirty five years. So it's like but it was a
true like, well, I do want I want kids, and
I thought I'd already have kids because I come from
Michigan and all my friends have like five year olds
and six year old at this point now, And oh
my gosh, So I'm just curious for you. Obviously there
(09:30):
was love for your ex. But when you step aside
from that, do you look at it and go, maybe
I looked away from certain things because I wanted to
be a mom because you have two beautiful children.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Yes, and you're an amazing mom. Thank you? Do you
know what I mean? Yeah? And you know, I I'm
not sure about that.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
I was never the person that was so obsessed with
being a mom. I just trusted that, like my path
was going to kind kind of aligne for me. And
then I mean it is true. Mean I didn't meet
you know, my ex husband too. I was thirty three,
so I was you know, there's that subconscious time clock
(10:13):
that is going on in your head.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
We also had a really.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
Fast dating period before engagement in marriage, so that was
like really fast. We just kind of you know, really
fell for each other. We were both from Pennsylvania and
it was just like this awesome kind of we came
from the same mold connection and so, you know, I
don't know if I thought like that. I think so
(10:40):
many of us when we find our you know, first husbands, I.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
Mean at this age or got one or three.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
So I don't think and I didn't. I don't think
we go into it. I mean I was going at
it as a whole pay sure, like this was amazing,
this was you know, my love, this was my this
was you know, going to be the father of my children,
like this was my forever. I don't recall going into it,
(11:12):
you know, hesitant about anything. And I think a lot
of people, right, we don't go into marriage thinking it's
going to be not the one. We don't go and
thinking it's going to be a divorce. I remember my
mom telling me that because my parents are divorced, and
she said, Pam, you know I didn't marry your dad
thinking I was going to divorce him.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
Like I married him like this is the greatest man ever.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
So so that's kind of you know, yeah, the plan
was clearly to never get divorced, but here we are.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
Right, and looks you know. It's interesting too because we're
two obviously very different people when it comes to what
we share and what we don't share. And even when
I was married to my ex, when I would bring
up like, you didn't talk about your marriage Hardie at all.
I mean, I didn't know there were any issues ever,
you know, which then leads me to shocked when and
(12:08):
nobody knows the story. So this is a am I
allowed to share. Sure, I had just met Alan and
I just met, but you know, we were dating, and
then I got pregnant, and I remember and are obviously
so close, but I remember there was this distance, and
I'm like, did I do something wrong? And I just
(12:30):
kept thinking, like, what did I do wrong? Pam's not
really talking to me. This is so weird and I
don't understand, and so I just kept thinking I did
something wrong. So I'm like, okay, but I don't want
to say anything, but should I? And then I'm also
like trying not to vomit every two seconds because I'm pregnant,
trying to like not tell everybody.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
Obviously you knew, but and I yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
So then as the summer goes on, you came over
to our airbnb that we were at and uh, you
can't move into the new house, and You're like, I
have to talk to you, and I'm like, here it is,
she's breaking up with me. I don't know why or
what I did. And I'm like, I've at this. I
at this point, I feel looking at it, Huntse, I
(13:14):
feel so bad because I was I made so about
me and like what I did wrong? I should have looked,
you know, asked you, but you literally said are you
breaking up?
Speaker 2 (13:23):
I didn't and sat down.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
You're like, so I have to talk to you. I'm like,
I'm so sorry. I don't know what I did, but
are we breaking up? Because and that's what I thought.
That's what I felt. And instead of why didn't I
come to you and ask you? Are you okay? But
you said, well, I think it took me like twenty minutes, yeah,
which is I'm like, does tell me you hate me? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (13:42):
I couldn't spit it out right.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
Yeah, I just said I still remember that, Like I
think you know, I just said three words, maybe two words,
I'm divorced, and you said like past tense.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
I was like celerity D like I was shocked. Yeah,
I'm divorced. I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
What And then I then I felt terrible because I'm like,
you went through this like you were, like you said,
nobody knew, you told nobody that's your therapist, only that.
And then I just felt awful because I'm like, man,
I should have asked if I have a question, if
I would have asked if you and your ex were okay,
Like do you think you would have said or no?
Speaker 3 (14:24):
I don't know because this was this is my what
was happening in my brain at that time.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
Talk to talk to us, so tell us a thought process.
And I am very aware that I am unique in
this way and it's not for everybody, but it works
for me. So this is how I roll. Okay.
Speaker 3 (14:45):
I didn't talk to anybody about it because you know,
I needed to maintain joy in every other aspect of
my life life that I could, and I didn't want
people to know because then it would have been the
(15:07):
constant topic of conversation and everybody would have been asking me,
are you okay? What's going on now? I would be
walking to the bus stop, everybody's thinking, oh my gosh,
she's sad, she's going through a divorce, and so I
wanted to maintain some sense of normalcy in my life
and know that I can go and you know, hang
(15:27):
out with you and all of our friends and.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
Just be normal.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
And I've always been the type of person that I
trust my brain so much. I trust the thoughts in
my head more than not against anybody else, but more
than anybody can give me advice on. And so what
my friends, you know, didn't realize is they were supporting
(15:56):
me more than they ever could by just being normal,
just being you know, there for me.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
And so that's just how I went through it.
Speaker 3 (16:08):
And I mean maybe part of it was just it
was painful to talk about, you know, I didn't want
to talk about I mean, and that stuff's painful, and
so I just sat in my emotions and I just
sat in my feelings, and.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
You know, just kind of.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
I think it's helpful when you don't have other people
in their opinions and their voices constantly in your head.
I think you have to be alone in your in
your thoughts a lot of the time, and I think
that people don't take that time to do that, and
so I I know it was weird, but I'm proud
(16:44):
of myself for doing it like that.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
I just think we all felt bad and I hear
what you're saying that we or did you without really
even knowing. But I also know how devastating divorces and
the like guttural tears and the sadness, And to know
that you went through that alone, that just makes me
sad as a friend that I couldn't like you laid
(17:17):
in bed with me while I would scream cry, you know,
and it's like you were alone doing that, And that
still makes me sad to this day that you It
makes me sad knowing that you were alone through that.
Speaker 3 (17:31):
I am a little bit sad for that version of myself,
like when I look back, but I think just at
that moment, it was just I was just doing the
best that I thought, you know, was good for like,
you know, my mental health, for my kids, for you know,
all that stuff, and just yeah, not involving anybody else there.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
So when she said that, obviously there was sadness that
I felt for you because a little relief that you
weren't breaking up with me, you broke up with someone else.
And then my third thing was is I was like,
damn it, Pam, why couldn't you do this when I
was getting divorced, we would have been on fire in
Miami together.
Speaker 3 (18:13):
Yeah, we were totally opposite trajectories. You were pregnant as
could be, and I was yeah, I.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
Was like, I need to do it.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
But then I'm like, well, so we would have gotten
in too much trouble. But you know now that is
so okay. So to wrap that piece up looking back,
what are some of the Obviously you went through it
different than probably most did. Is there anything for women
that are going through a divorce that you found solace in?
Speaker 3 (18:46):
I think I just kept trusting the Universe's plan for
me and knowing that I there's only two things I
can control in this world, and it is how I
treat myself and how I treat other people. And I
cannot control any other part of my surroundings, my environment,
(19:12):
and so I just put my head down. You guys,
I took care of myself. I built a company from
nothing while going through a divorce. I put my energy
into my children, and I just did not lose hope
(19:35):
in you know, like where I meant to be.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
Again.
Speaker 3 (19:41):
Did I ever see this, you know, happening, or even
expect you know that I would be in that place, know,
but I just trust so much in this like beautiful
freaking world that I know that I am exactly where
I am supposed to be right now for what whatever
reason it is. And I don't even need to know
(20:02):
the reason. I just release all of that control. And
I mean, you know, it was was the craziest hardest
thing ever. But I think it did give me the
space and the almost the just determination to build this
freaking company. Now I'm scaling this company like all by myself,
(20:25):
you know, from nothing, And so I almost turned like
you know, a sad thing into as much of a powerful,
powerful finding my voice where I'm supposed to be type
of situation.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
I think a lot of women too, They always ask me,
when did you know? Was there a moment for you
where you were like either I don't want to spend
my life like this the rest of my or I
don't want.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
What was it for?
Speaker 1 (21:00):
Like I know that this is the right choice and
I'm making the right choice.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
Was it a feeling? Was it a.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
I think a lot of women wrestle with that piece
of it, like how do you know, yeah that if
you're making the right decision or that this is.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
Well I will say that I don't think that.
Speaker 3 (21:21):
Many. I mean, I think there are a percentage, but
I don't think that many divorces.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
Just just happen overnight.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
Sure, I think a lot of the time it is
a slow burn, whether you want to admit it or not.
And I also think it's a situation where when you know,
you know, and it could be the littlest thing, it
could be the biggest thing, it could be you know,
(21:49):
a multitude of you know, kind of like again just
like you know, building up of things. Yeah, but was
there like some crazy pivotal moment.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
Not really.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
It's interesting you say that, because that's that is so true.
There is this feeling when you just go and I'm
done and you and I always was wondering if I
would ever feel that, and then when you do, you're like, oh,
that is what people always say. That feeling is. Yeah,
you can't really explain it, and you can't go back
from it either. No, there's no take back button. It's
(22:21):
like or take back the feelings. You know that it's done,
and then you just gotta put your head down and
go through it.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
Well, and you know, I mean, and it wasn't like,
oh it was just me saying I'm done. I mean,
there was a you know, a discussion, There was you know,
you know, a combination of both of us. So it
wasn't just like, you know, some type of situation like
that either. But yeah, I mean I think just maybe
two people realizing that maybe each other don't make the
(22:53):
other person, you know, as happy as they could as
they could be, and that everybody deserves to you know,
live in this rolled with an abundance of happiness and joy.
And so.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
That was you know, a bit of the backstory with
the divorce. But what I'm excited to talk about is
what's happening now. And I'm just loving this conversation. So
let's pause this one and let's do part two next week.
Welcome back to I Do Part two. I'm one of
your hosts, Jana Kramer, and today is a very exciting
episode because we talk a lot about celebrities and what's
going on in their lives. But today I wanted to
bring in my own real life, regular divorced single friend
who's amazing and open to finding love. So everyone, welcome
Pamelin onto the podcast. Having So I'm just so excited
(00:38):
about this for a few reasons. One because I mean, look,
I love I love doing the show when I'm able
to come on and interview people. But and this is
no offense, like to the Bachelorette people out there, the models,
I mean, we love Kelly Bensimone, we love her. I
mean she's a she's a beautiful, stunning model, and you
(00:59):
know she is going through her her journey of you know,
being divorced and finding love. And we've got Bachelorettes and
bachelorett you know, so it's like love all of them. Sure,
But I had this thought when we I mean, you're
my best friend, yes number one. Number two, We're walking
and I'm I've obviously been on this journey with you,
(01:20):
and I'm like, why isn't Pamelin on I do part
two because this is again no offense to the to
the other amazing hosts that we've had on here, in
the celebrities that we've had on here. But you are
dealing with this not in you know, not like that
didn't you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
I'm trying to say, not.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
In the public I am most real, normal person view
of you know, what's really happening.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
Yeah, and I think it's for me I relate more
to people that are really going through it and not
in the public eye. Right.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
Well, I think that sometimes when you're in the public eye,
you do have a different experience because you may be
more accessible to more people, right because your story's out there, right,
I mean you.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
I mean, I don't want to say it, but I mean,
you know, more people maybe would have found me from
It's like I found my husband on Instagram because he
found you know so.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
And at this point it it kind of comes down
to a numbers game.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
I feel like a lot of things are numbers games.
I had to date a lot of people. Yeah, you
do find the right one, yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
And you start to you know, figure out what you
actually want instead of you know, just trying to have
somebody choose you, or you be the one that somebody likes, Like, no,
what exactly do I want?
Speaker 1 (02:45):
Well, so we're obviously going to talk about dating because
that is one of our hot topics on our walks
around the neighborhood because we're also I don't want we're
best friends, but we're neighbors, and so we go on
walks and I'm hearing it all and we're going to
to talk about all that. But first I want to
back up because I know Pamelin and I am honored
(03:07):
to know you. But I want other people listening, and
I also want a potential suitor to be hearing this too,
to get a little piece into who you are, what
has been your journey thus far and before the dating world.
So let's back it up. I give us the where
are you from? Along remarried, let's do it?
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Do it well.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
I'm originally from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, and I'm very proud of that.
You also know the version of Pittsburgh Pam and she
comes out.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Let me tell you about Pittsburgh Pam. She's a good
friend to have.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
So you know, I have these kind of blue collared
roots and then I came here to Nashville from Los Angeles.
I lived there for eleven years and that's where I
met my ex husband and I had my two beautiful
daughters there and we moved here in twenty nineteen. I
was married for ten years.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
And you had quite a dating history too, I mean,
with the fact that you didn't really.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Date a lot of people.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
True. Yeah, I since as far as I can remember,
I've just been very intentional about dating or boyfriends. I
would have a boyfriend for three four years and then
I wouldn't date at all for three four years. It
was kind of like it was just something I would
(04:39):
feel an energy, and then I just knew that it
was going to be it. And if I didn't have
that feeling, I just didn't entertain. I didn't need to be,
you know, going on dates. I was building my career.
I had amazing friendships, and so it wasn't ever really
anything that I felt like I had to have if
it fell into my lap, and you know, it was
(05:00):
an amazing experience. I totally put forth all of my
effort into that, but it was never it was really
always always quality over quantity, for sure.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
So I mean I really only had I don't know
because I know the hockey. There was a hockey guy.
There was a football right. I mean I had a
really I had a four and a half year relationship,
and he was financed, he was not exactly, but and
we lived together and we had a business together and
all the things. Yeah, when I thought about my future,
(05:39):
I just didn't think that he was going to be,
you know, the one to love me like I wanted
to be.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Loved, which is interesting in hindsight. In hindsight, oh my gosh,
I mean it was crazy. I lived together. I mean,
I loved his family, It was.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
It was great in a lot of ways, which I
don't think he was capable of loving me enough.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
And so I think that's a.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
Big takeaway with a lot of people trying to like
navigate this whole world, is you can have beautiful relationships,
you can really really want that person in your life forever,
but if they are not capable of meeting we're meeting
you where you're at, then there's this just lost hope
(06:27):
and then we're wasting time and we're we're wanting somebody
to give us something that they cannot give us. And
you know, we have to get out of that cycle
and really understanding like what is, what are they capable of?
What can they do instead of just like romanticizing or
(06:48):
being excited about the potential.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
Right of somebody.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
Isn't that an interesting thought though, because that's the majority
of why we get divorced, is because they can't meet
our needs. Yeah, so really what we're wanting you realizing
the person that you pick didn't meet your needs. I
mean my ex husband didn't meet my needs obviously, sure,
And I.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
Think you know, a lot of that does come down
to communication too. So if we are not properly communicating,
you know, to somebody what exactly we need, and especially
to men, we almost have to like lay it out
in bullet points, like on a silver platter and hand
it to them and say, you know, this is actually
what I need, and a lot of men will then
(07:29):
give it to you. I mean, if you're really laying
it out. I mean some you know, of course some
are not going to. But we cannot expect anybody to
read our minds and know what we want because we
all are so different. And so maybe in a past relationship,
a woman or a man needed X, Y and Z,
Well we're not the same person and so I think
(07:49):
that when it comes down to it, it's the communication
that is first lacking that then causes you know, the
needs aren't being met.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
To back up to when you met your ex. And
again this I don't want this pod. This isn't about
him and y'all just divorce. This is about you and
your journey. But I'm just curious to see because a
lot of people that listen are around that thirty to
forty age range, which if they don't have kids, they're
(08:30):
wanting to have kids. And I always kind of wonder.
And I've never asked you this, so you can pass
if you want, but for me, and I've spoken openly
about this, where I looked away from flags because I
wanted to be a mom. You know, I still think
I probably would have ended up with my ex just
(08:50):
because I was so I didn't think I deserved certain things.
But I truly, at my core, I was like, I
need to be a mom, and this is my best
option that I have right here, as I you know,
as at thirty. And what's so sad is now I
look back, I'm like, man, thirty.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
So young, Yeah, you know, so young.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
I'm like, oh, like you you and you don't realize
how fast things can change on a dime at thirty four,
thirty five years. So it's like but it was a
true like, well, I do want I want kids, and
I thought I'd already have kids because I come from
Michigan and all my friends have like five year olds
and six year old at this point now, And oh
my gosh, So I'm just curious for you. Obviously there
(09:30):
was love for your ex. But when you step aside
from that, do you look at it and go, maybe
I looked away from certain things because I wanted to
be a mom because you have two beautiful children.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Yes, and you're an amazing mom. Thank you? Do you
know what I mean? Yeah? And you know, I I'm
not sure about that.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
I was never the person that was so obsessed with
being a mom. I just trusted that, like my path
was going to kind kind of aligne for me. And
then I mean it is true. Mean I didn't meet
you know, my ex husband too. I was thirty three,
so I was you know, there's that subconscious time clock
(10:13):
that is going on in your head.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
We also had a really.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
Fast dating period before engagement in marriage, so that was
like really fast. We just kind of you know, really
fell for each other. We were both from Pennsylvania and
it was just like this awesome kind of we came
from the same mold connection and so, you know, I
don't know if I thought like that. I think so
(10:40):
many of us when we find our you know, first husbands, I.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
Mean at this age or got one or three.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
So I don't think and I didn't. I don't think
we go into it. I mean I was going at
it as a whole pay sure, like this was amazing,
this was you know, my love, this was my this
was you know, going to be the father of my children,
like this was my forever. I don't recall going into it,
(11:12):
you know, hesitant about anything. And I think a lot
of people, right, we don't go into marriage thinking it's
going to be not the one. We don't go and
thinking it's going to be a divorce. I remember my
mom telling me that because my parents are divorced, and
she said, Pam, you know I didn't marry your dad
thinking I was going to divorce him.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
Like I married him like this is the greatest man ever.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
So so that's kind of you know, yeah, the plan
was clearly to never get divorced, but here we are.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
Right, and looks you know. It's interesting too because we're
two obviously very different people when it comes to what
we share and what we don't share. And even when
I was married to my ex, when I would bring
up like, you didn't talk about your marriage Hardie at all.
I mean, I didn't know there were any issues ever,
you know, which then leads me to shocked when and
(12:08):
nobody knows the story. So this is a am I
allowed to share. Sure, I had just met Alan and
I just met, but you know, we were dating, and
then I got pregnant, and I remember and are obviously
so close, but I remember there was this distance, and
I'm like, did I do something wrong? And I just
(12:30):
kept thinking, like, what did I do wrong? Pam's not
really talking to me. This is so weird and I
don't understand, and so I just kept thinking I did
something wrong. So I'm like, okay, but I don't want
to say anything, but should I? And then I'm also
like trying not to vomit every two seconds because I'm pregnant,
trying to like not tell everybody.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
Obviously you knew, but and I yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
So then as the summer goes on, you came over
to our airbnb that we were at and uh, you
can't move into the new house, and You're like, I
have to talk to you, and I'm like, here it is,
she's breaking up with me. I don't know why or
what I did. And I'm like, I've at this. I
at this point, I feel looking at it, Huntse, I
(13:14):
feel so bad because I was I made so about
me and like what I did wrong? I should have looked,
you know, asked you, but you literally said are you
breaking up?
Speaker 2 (13:23):
I didn't and sat down.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
You're like, so I have to talk to you. I'm like,
I'm so sorry. I don't know what I did, but
are we breaking up? Because and that's what I thought.
That's what I felt. And instead of why didn't I
come to you and ask you? Are you okay? But
you said, well, I think it took me like twenty minutes, yeah,
which is I'm like, does tell me you hate me? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (13:42):
I couldn't spit it out right.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
Yeah, I just said I still remember that, Like I
think you know, I just said three words, maybe two words,
I'm divorced, and you said like past tense.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
I was like celerity D like I was shocked. Yeah,
I'm divorced. I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
What And then I then I felt terrible because I'm like,
you went through this like you were, like you said,
nobody knew, you told nobody that's your therapist, only that.
And then I just felt awful because I'm like, man,
I should have asked if I have a question, if
I would have asked if you and your ex were okay,
Like do you think you would have said or no?
Speaker 3 (14:24):
I don't know because this was this is my what
was happening in my brain at that time.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
Talk to talk to us, so tell us a thought process.
And I am very aware that I am unique in
this way and it's not for everybody, but it works
for me. So this is how I roll. Okay.
Speaker 3 (14:45):
I didn't talk to anybody about it because you know,
I needed to maintain joy in every other aspect of
my life life that I could, and I didn't want
people to know because then it would have been the
(15:07):
constant topic of conversation and everybody would have been asking me,
are you okay? What's going on now? I would be
walking to the bus stop, everybody's thinking, oh my gosh,
she's sad, she's going through a divorce, and so I
wanted to maintain some sense of normalcy in my life
and know that I can go and you know, hang
(15:27):
out with you and all of our friends and.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
Just be normal.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
And I've always been the type of person that I
trust my brain so much. I trust the thoughts in
my head more than not against anybody else, but more
than anybody can give me advice on. And so what
my friends, you know, didn't realize is they were supporting
(15:56):
me more than they ever could by just being normal,
just being you know, there for me.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
And so that's just how I went through it.
Speaker 3 (16:08):
And I mean maybe part of it was just it
was painful to talk about, you know, I didn't want
to talk about I mean, and that stuff's painful, and
so I just sat in my emotions and I just
sat in my feelings, and.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
You know, just kind of.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
I think it's helpful when you don't have other people
in their opinions and their voices constantly in your head.
I think you have to be alone in your in
your thoughts a lot of the time, and I think
that people don't take that time to do that, and
so I I know it was weird, but I'm proud
(16:44):
of myself for doing it like that.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
I just think we all felt bad and I hear
what you're saying that we or did you without really
even knowing. But I also know how devastating divorces and
the like guttural tears and the sadness, And to know
that you went through that alone, that just makes me
sad as a friend that I couldn't like you laid
(17:17):
in bed with me while I would scream cry, you know,
and it's like you were alone doing that, And that
still makes me sad to this day that you It
makes me sad knowing that you were alone through that.
Speaker 3 (17:31):
I am a little bit sad for that version of myself,
like when I look back, but I think just at
that moment, it was just I was just doing the
best that I thought, you know, was good for like,
you know, my mental health, for my kids, for you know,
all that stuff, and just yeah, not involving anybody else there.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
So when she said that, obviously there was sadness that
I felt for you because a little relief that you
weren't breaking up with me, you broke up with someone else.
And then my third thing was is I was like,
damn it, Pam, why couldn't you do this when I
was getting divorced, we would have been on fire in
Miami together.
Speaker 3 (18:13):
Yeah, we were totally opposite trajectories. You were pregnant as
could be, and I was yeah, I.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
Was like, I need to do it.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
But then I'm like, well, so we would have gotten
in too much trouble. But you know now that is
so okay. So to wrap that piece up looking back,
what are some of the Obviously you went through it
different than probably most did. Is there anything for women
that are going through a divorce that you found solace in?
Speaker 3 (18:46):
I think I just kept trusting the Universe's plan for
me and knowing that I there's only two things I
can control in this world, and it is how I
treat myself and how I treat other people. And I
cannot control any other part of my surroundings, my environment,
(19:12):
and so I just put my head down. You guys,
I took care of myself. I built a company from
nothing while going through a divorce. I put my energy
into my children, and I just did not lose hope
(19:35):
in you know, like where I meant to be.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
Again.
Speaker 3 (19:41):
Did I ever see this, you know, happening, or even
expect you know that I would be in that place, know,
but I just trust so much in this like beautiful
freaking world that I know that I am exactly where
I am supposed to be right now for what whatever
reason it is. And I don't even need to know
(20:02):
the reason. I just release all of that control. And
I mean, you know, it was was the craziest hardest
thing ever. But I think it did give me the
space and the almost the just determination to build this
freaking company. Now I'm scaling this company like all by myself,
(20:25):
you know, from nothing, And so I almost turned like
you know, a sad thing into as much of a powerful,
powerful finding my voice where I'm supposed to be type
of situation.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
I think a lot of women too, They always ask me,
when did you know? Was there a moment for you
where you were like either I don't want to spend
my life like this the rest of my or I
don't want.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
What was it for?
Speaker 1 (21:00):
Like I know that this is the right choice and
I'm making the right choice.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
Was it a feeling? Was it a.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
I think a lot of women wrestle with that piece
of it, like how do you know, yeah that if
you're making the right decision or that this is.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
Well I will say that I don't think that.
Speaker 3 (21:21):
Many. I mean, I think there are a percentage, but
I don't think that many divorces.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
Just just happen overnight.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
Sure, I think a lot of the time it is
a slow burn, whether you want to admit it or not.
And I also think it's a situation where when you know,
you know, and it could be the littlest thing, it
could be the biggest thing, it could be you know,
(21:49):
a multitude of you know, kind of like again just
like you know, building up of things. Yeah, but was
there like some crazy pivotal moment.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
Not really.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
It's interesting you say that, because that's that is so true.
There is this feeling when you just go and I'm
done and you and I always was wondering if I
would ever feel that, and then when you do, you're like, oh,
that is what people always say. That feeling is. Yeah,
you can't really explain it, and you can't go back
from it either. No, there's no take back button. It's
(22:21):
like or take back the feelings. You know that it's done,
and then you just gotta put your head down and
go through it.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
Well, and you know, I mean, and it wasn't like,
oh it was just me saying I'm done. I mean,
there was a you know, a discussion, There was you know,
you know, a combination of both of us. So it
wasn't just like, you know, some type of situation like
that either. But yeah, I mean I think just maybe
two people realizing that maybe each other don't make the
(22:53):
other person, you know, as happy as they could as
they could be, and that everybody deserves to you know,
live in this rolled with an abundance of happiness and joy.
And so.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
That was you know, a bit of the backstory with
the divorce. But what I'm excited to talk about is
what's happening now. And I'm just loving this conversation. So
let's pause this one and let's do part two next week.
Host
Jana Kramer
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