April 10, 2025 • 28 mins
Jana is joined by model and actress Jaime King, who is speaking out for the first time since her custody battle with her ex-husband.
Jaime and Jana have a raw and honest conversation about the unspoken challenges women endure after leaving a toxic relationship, and Jaime opens up about facing her trauma on her path to healing.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Wind Down with Janet Kramer and iHeartRadio Podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Our special guest this week is none other than Jamie King.
She's an actor, filmmaker, activist, and mother and we're going
to get her on to talk all the things. Obviously,
I know who you are and your work and a
big fan of yours, but there's just reading your story too,
and about your life, and there's I just I feel
(00:30):
for you in the because you know, I've been in
custody stuff with my ex and the relationship. I mean,
it's just it's it's hard when it's just so front
and center and you're dealing within kids, and so I
just really empathize with a lot of your story and yeah,
I'm sorry, Like that's a it's it's just a tough situation.
(00:52):
So I don't know how you know how open you
are to that piece of it or if you're just
trying to I've never talked about it, yeah, so and
that yeah, because I'm like, I just feel like I've
heard so much of from that other person, and it's
it's hard because I'm like, I just you know, that's
that to me is sad because it's like you just
(01:13):
because it's not true exactly, yeah, right, And my.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Dudia is and mother is to protect my children absolutely,
and that's all that matters to me. And this is scary.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Oh we don't. We don't have to. I just you know.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
But honestly speaking, the thing is is that I just
didn't know when I, you know, got married at a
young age and something I was very proud of, and
I just didn't know that that the world works like this.
I didn't know that legal systems work like this. And
not to sound like some kind of neophyte, you know,
but I thought that you know, when you choose to
(01:53):
love someone, and you love that person, you bel family
with them and you trust them, and sometimes it's not
always that way. And the reason why I don't speak
ones because I want my h I never wanted my
children to think that any part of them was wrong.
I'm extremely grateful, and at the same time, the system
(02:15):
is really unfair, and I think that it's really important
to support the structure of family and and kindness. Kindness
is the key, It's the key to everything, no matter what.
Just be kind, yeah, and be kind and tell the truth.
And it's not so easy, you know, to speak one's
(02:36):
own truth when you're bombarded with the whole It's like
it's almost like politics. It's like a polittle like a
like a campaign, and it's so stunning, you know, it's
so stunnying, and not in a good way. You know.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
Yeah, yeah, no, I hear you. And it's and it's
too you know, there's I can think back to. Yes,
you know, I've been vocal about my ex husband, but
there are many things that I haven't shared because I
don't want it to affect my kids and because one
day they will read things and they will they will
see things, and you know, but there is I agree
(03:13):
with you on the legal system. I've I've been in
abusive relationships in the past, and you know, even from
the comments to the system, it's it's it's very messed up.
And what they do to women in that and how
they can turn it is is mind blowing. Like from
what you know, I've worked in some shelters and what
(03:33):
I've seen is just I'm like, wait, you, how are
you in trouble for like he he stabbed you fifteen times?
How how are you sitting here in this in this
jail right now? Like it was just and im I
did that work with my therapist because I was working
through my trauma of the guy that tried to kill me,
and you know, it's been but what I saw mostly
(03:55):
was the broken system within that as well with those women.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
So I guess the kind of system that I mean
it really is. It's it's terrifying. Hm, It's truly terrifying,
you know, because what is required of you to even
protect your own self first and foremost is insanely difficult.
(04:23):
The laws that are put into place to protect women
of color and women in general, you know, have been
flipped on there. It makes me emotional, have been because
I've never spoken about this.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
I'm sorry, you know, it's okay.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Thank you have been flipped on their heads. It's heads
one could say, where now? Men are you utilizing these
laws to abuse? Because it's a no fault state. That's
it's terrifying. It's terrifying, you know, when to leave are
(05:03):
to be able to be free means that you have
to pay a very extreme price. And I'm not just
talking about financially, you know, it's it's just, you know,
it's very upsetting and I will do everything in my
power to change the system. And it's not a will
(05:27):
I'm going.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
To well, girl, I'd love to march on with you,
because that is there's so many and that's I appreciate
you sharing that you know that piece. And I know
you said you haven't chatted about it, but it's.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
I haven't chatted.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
The more you talk about it.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
I didn't like, I didn't even know that i'd be
like feel safe enough to even saying anything because I'm scared.
I'm still scared.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
I'm really well, of course, because the abuser is in
the in your ear, and I think for me, that's
the hardest piece. It took me many years to say
that I was abused and I'm and I'm still not
saying by who really yet because by because there's some
people that I haven't actually said because I'm still scared
of them. I'm scared of what they'll do. I'm scared
of what will you know, how it'll get flipped on me.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
There'll always be a consequence, Yeah, like the things that
you put in a place to actually protect yourself will
somehow be flipped around to hurt.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
And used against you or taken or things taken away
from it or in your most vulnerable moments. Things that
I've shared those people will flip it on you, and
that's the piece where and and so, But I I
do believe within talking about it and sharing it can
open eyes because I think it's so messed how it
messed up, how it goes to. They can leave bruises
(06:40):
on your arms or do say X y or do this.
But yet we are still going to the woman and saying, well,
what'd you do? You know? Or let's yeah, and I'm like, oh,
I just I just can't with that whole piece of it.
But so I am, I'm sorry for what you have
gone through. You've had, you know, your your life starting
from you know, your childhood and you know growing up
(07:02):
with the bullying and the you know.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
The I'm sorry drugs, what you're going through.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
Thank you. It's but it's hard because and I don't
I've probably I've only talked about my abuse piece a
few times because that's still the hardest piece to talk
about a because it gets flipped the comments, and it's
the you still have them in your voice going well
did I or do I did I deserve that? Or
yeah or what because they start to try to change
(07:30):
your own perception of what actually happened.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
Yeah, it's like like the it's it's almost like penete
on that donkey or blind folds, like in you're spun around, yeah,
and you're trying to hit some kind of mark and
you don't and that mark just keeps changing. Yeah, So
it's like no matter what it is that you do,
you'll never be enough and it altered. Like it's really
(07:55):
like that dizziness, that that isolation, the constant messaging that
you're something that you're completely not, you know, starts to
color your world. Right. It's like the best way that
I can explain that experience is like when there's a
white wall and someone keeps saying that wall is black,
(08:20):
that wall is black, Like are you crazy? Everyone knows
that wall is black, And then anyone you care about
that wall is black. Don't you see that wall is black.
But they do it with this kind of charisma, this charm,
this this thing that we're supposed to have, you know,
like that like as as filmmakers, as actors, as you know,
(08:44):
as journalists, as people that speak and talk and relate
to the world, that that charisma, that thing, but not
everyone has that thing, and in a way to manipulate
because the amount of the mental level of strategy is
far beyond what I could ever possibly imagine as a
mother and as a filmmaker and as a friend. I mean,
(09:11):
the amount of time that it takes to strategize on
that kind of level. That is what I do, and
I commit to my work to that which I really
care about. You know, it's just extraordinary, you know, not
all loving and you know, mental, physical, emotional energy is
put towards those things that.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
Matter well and being a mom and the mam a
bear and you're wanting to you know, I don't know
if that you're still in that situation, but like I
had to pay SPOLSI support and I'd pay child support
every month to my ex, to my person who hurt
me and did the destruction in our marriage. And that's
a piece of you know that I've gotten to a
place now where I'm like, okay, I'm trying to you know,
(09:54):
not have so much anger and resentment with it. But
there is this, you know, we we work so hard
to provide and to also nurture and care for our
kids as well. So yeah, so I also validate you
and that must be a difficult situation as well. And
to have someone like throwing things out you being like
(10:14):
you're unfit this and like anyone I will like watch me,
mama there like the you know it's like to have
any father say that about I just was like, I can't.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
It's disgusting. I'm just to be clear, like like it's no,
I mean, I might as well just be honest. If
this is the person I'm talking about this with someone
that has gone through it, it's really disturbing, you know,
and it's it's like and also it's not logical or
(10:47):
practical at all.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
It's just to me feels very calculated.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
It just it doesn't make it ends right. So you're
unfit If all of these things are being said, then
how are you fit to then provide for the children?
How are you fit to go work twelve to eighteen
hours a day? How are you fit to you know,
when your entire or my entire marriage, I paid for everything,
(11:12):
the entire like it's I and I and I was proud.
I'm always proud to be the person that or a
person that has earned everything that I have. You know
that that matters to me.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
Yeah, And it's showing your children too, how you know, Yeah,
determination and respect and you know going after your dreams,
Like it's a beautiful, beautiful thing to show your kids.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
That so that's the best. It just doesn't makes sense.
It's like, what price is There's no Like I'm like, well,
there's no price to pay for freedom.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
My therapist taught me with this, and you might you
can take this one too. But where I got to
kind of a piece with it. Where is to me
it's my freedom check. I would rather be out of
it than in it. So if I have to pay it,
it's my freedom check, yes, exactly. And so as much
as I don't like paying it, because right, we all
have stresses to meet needs of other things, you know,
(12:21):
on top of the household and everything else that you
know we do and work and provide. But it's like, Okay,
here's my freedom check to not be with you anymore.
If that's what I have to do to not be
with anymore, I will write this check for the rest
of my life, say till eighteen.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
Right. That's like, if there's no price of the give
your freedom right? Yeah, And it is about that reframing,
you know, that's a really good perspective of your therapist
and you because it's always about like Okay, how do
we you know, continue to do something without feeling resentment
about it? Because I that's not where I prefer to live.
(12:59):
Is that space? And I don't mind? I really don't mind.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
Again, is there so you have loved Danielle right now?
That's that's that's out?
Speaker 1 (13:10):
Do you?
Speaker 2 (13:10):
Is there something within everything that you've gone through that
you were like, I want to create and I want
to play this type of character to be almost like
I remember when I it was not a big movie
by any means, but it was a role where I
got to play someone being abuse and it was I
didn't know how I would handle in being in that role,
but it was ended up being the most therapeutic role
(13:31):
I've ever played, because I mean in one of the
scenes where I'm like being strangled and choked, like, I
ended up having this like wild release from the moment
that you know it happened. So I wonder, is there
something for you where you're like, I want to I
want to tackle maybe drug drug abuse from this age
or you know, the the abuse or to to then
almost not saying you're not over it, but to help
(13:53):
almost heal pieces of you that might still be unhealed.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
I think that with every role that comes to it,
that there is an opportunity to clear and release and
let go of what we've experienced, right and to like
Carrie Fisher always said, you'd take your broken heart and
turn it into art. And for me, acting is not
(14:19):
it's not like just a playing of a person. It's
how we merge ourselves with our own truth inside of
ourselves and the truth within the character. And as you know,
there's always a release when you're in that moment. Right
with Loved Danielle, that film was actually brought to me
(14:42):
originally to direct, and the script was so beautiful and
so complex, and it was all donation based, and it
was on a very short time frame, and I've lost
people that I I'm very close with, you know, to cancer,
(15:03):
and I've been on the border same to cancer for
over a decade and Sean Parker Institute, and so that
really mattered to me. So I was like, you know,
I don't think this is the one that I can
direct right now, but I will be here no matter what.
And so for me, with Love Danielle, it was really
an opportunity to celebrate what Devin went through and her
(15:26):
sister and you know this can like this consistent fight
that not only the family went through. But then I
don't mean fight, I'm talking about fighting a dance cancer.
Obviously that was hard. It was really hard because I
lost my best friend to cancer and and it's it
(15:48):
was but it was joyful too. It was joyful because
I was able to have fun in the experience and again,
you know, clear and release and work through and and
take it different tone, because you know, tone is really
hard sometimes, you know, like how you're approaching a scene
or a topic, you know what I mean, Like, I
(16:08):
don't know if you've ever like read a scene, You're like,
I just don't know what tone this is. Yeah, for this,
like I really understood what tone it was. And it's like,
you know when someone can be laughing when they want
to cry, you know. So it was really taking that
kind of approach. And I'm just very very proud of
the film, and I'm really proud of Devin and Amy
(16:31):
and everyone that made like was able to make that
movie happen.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
It's a scartaining do you have I mean, because you
said you're directing, is there anything you know for you
your kind of dream, either directing or role that you.
I mean, you've played some amazing parts and like you're
you're incredible at what you do. So is there something
for you where you're like, I really want to check
(16:55):
this one off, the you know, check this box off.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
I started my production company a few years ago. It's
called Hooligan Dreamers Productions. And for me, there are multiple
boxes that I want to check off, and they are
for other people and not just myself. We need to
completely well, I don't want to say completely, but the
system needs to be changed. What I care about is
(17:19):
that other humans, other artists, have opportunities to be seen
when they're not seen, to be heard when they're not heard,
to have not just the opportunity to walk into a
room and to share the gifts that they have with
the world, but to actually have that happen, for it
to actually be realized on screen, and you know, to
(17:44):
make people feel less alone. That's really what I care about. Yeah,
that's really what I care about, you know, because there
are positions of power that are I think misrepresented and unnecessary,
and so I just want to tell stories with people
that I love. Yeah, and do it responsibly.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
Let's do it. Let's do let's do one together, Let's
do it.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
No, I mean when I say that, I actually know.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
I'm saying, can we actually be in you know? I'm like,
I'm dreaming up one right now, we're I think the
system got it wrong. We're in prison, yes, you know,
or some or one of us is there and you're
going to help get somebody you know, get me out,
I'll get you out whatever. Yes, you know there's something
I don't know or something there.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
There's something there.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
There really is something there. What do you do talk
about your sobriety at all? Or no?
Speaker 1 (18:34):
I've never had to think about myself like sober or
not sober? Correct I stop using like thirteen seventeen or something.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
Well, i think, what's so? I read that? But then
I'm like, why then did she have to go to rehab?
Like I didn't understand that.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
Oh I didn't like what Now.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
I saw some article that was like no, no, no, no,
that's not she was ordered a six month rehead program,
And I'm like, I wonder, so this is where I
go right with Like with the ex husbands, I'm like,
I bet you because the stories that she, you know,
said when she was younger, you know that he's now
used her.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
That's precisely what happened, and.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
That's so messed up. I literally that was my note.
I just want to say, you know, did he your
husband saying yes? Was that used against you from your
vulnerable conversations that you had when you were younger? Used
against you?
Speaker 1 (19:21):
Yes? Even though I publicly spoken what a system and
have worked through the entirety of my life to protect
people that have gone through those things. Yes, absolutely, Wis.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
I'm so sorry. That is incredible because again, like, don't
mess with my kids, and yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
Essentially what has been said is inaccurate and I I
haven't been able to say anything about it for the
protection of my children. To answer your question, absolutely, that's
what happened, and it's horrifying. It's horrifying. I just I
(20:07):
simply don't know how this is possible. And I don't
want to live my life in shock. I want to
find a solution, but it is. It hurts my heart,
you know, to say the least. And I'm also extremely
extremely grateful for my friends and for the people and
(20:31):
the women and the men that are around me that
are so solid, and I'm so grateful for the strength
inside of my own self, you know, because I have
to look at it from a different perspective to not
get caught up like people have you read. I don't
read anything. I don't read any news, any articles. Why
because that that that energy, and it's just what they want.
(20:56):
It's what they want. They want like they want you
to feel bad. They want to be consumed.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
My husband, my now husband, always says, you know, and
articles will come out that are not nice or that
are not true. It will affect me in a moment.
And then he's like, what's within the four walls? You know,
what is in within the four walls? That is what
the truth is, That is what you need those and
those are the only people that you need to worry about.
(21:37):
Is within what's within the four walls your kids, your
closest friends, everything else they don't know.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
Oh, your husband thinking, that's really that's a really good perspective.
It's true and I and I know that, and I
trust that. That's why it's like the rest is just noise.
It's all noise.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
Yeah, you know, And what what your hope is again
is that which what I love is you're wanting to
now make a difference with what you've gone through and
also using it within your work. So I think that's
there's no' that's the happy ending with it all, you know,
that's the hope with it all, right, you know is
it's a terrible situation.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
That's always been the case. And I think the closer
we get to our truth, the closer we get to
really leading with love, loving, I should say I'm being
of service. The closer and closer we get to the
actualization of it, the more and more you know, negativity.
You can try and push back on it, but that's okay.
It's just part of our process, is part of our learning.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
Yeah, And I think a lot of people, you know,
because we don't have a lot degrees, we don't know
people that might not have been divorced. There are so
many things that you can file that are actually not true,
oh and hurt other people. And I don't think people
understand that. I think you can just go oh, like
I remember one time when my ex husband he had
filed for divorce first because he knew that I was
(22:57):
about to and so he filed first because there's always
something with filing first or whatever, and he had put something.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
That was later I was confused about that part that Yeah, separational,
that stuff.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
And that and that one went away and then until
I filed years later, but he had put something in
that original filing where I was like, wait, that's not true.
And there was this moment that I and I mean
I did. The lawyer was like, well that he can,
he can put that in. I was like, but that's
not true. How could he put it in when it's
not true?
Speaker 1 (23:22):
You know?
Speaker 2 (23:23):
And so I don't think people understand that. And obviously
all that stuff got thrown away, but I'll never forget
that moment because I'm like, wow, it's that's how along
with the system is is that's messed up?
Speaker 1 (23:33):
Yeah, I'm so sorry. I knew that feeling. I sincerely
I understand what you're saying, because that's it's it's it's
it's really ineffable to see something that like, as you're
it's not even a description, that's literally what happens. Yeah,
(23:53):
and like, oh, well that's just the law. It's like
how is that wait? Wait, how is that law?
Speaker 2 (23:58):
Like?
Speaker 1 (23:58):
And how it's like how are you supposed to become
a paralegal or a lawyer? And you know, as like
you're an intelligent woman. I was like, if one more
person tells me, I'm I know, I'm an intelligent woman,
but I'm not.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
I'm not.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
I didn't go I didn't take the bar. Like that
wasn't like my my dream, you know what I mean?
I don't like that's not I need to put my
lovey into something else. And that's like, it's stunning, it's stunning. Yeah,
there's a lot of a lot of mental work. And again,
everything you know is an exercise and ultimately, you know,
(24:34):
it's everything is an opportunity to then be of service
to other people. Right of what what we've gone through
and what we've experienced in our knowledge and what we've learned.
There's God, there's a reason for it, you know, there's
there has to be a reason for it.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
So you have loved Danielle out. What is after that?
Do you have something that you're filming or directing? Posts this?
Speaker 1 (24:58):
Yes, I I did four films this year that I'm
very excited about girl, and I'm preparing to direct my
first feature that I'm also very excited about. I haven't
announced that one yet.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
Okay, Well, I'm just having.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
The best time. I'm just having the best time in
terms of like writing and filmmaking and producing and just
seeing the beauty of so many artists and what it
is that they do, and getting to spend every day,
you know, focusing not only on my children and my family,
(25:34):
but also like bringing the like these children of the artists,
like what they want to make and what they want
to say to life. It's so so beautiful.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
Yeah, I agree with you. What is it a little
fast around here? What's your favorite thing that you've been in? Oh,
I'll start Pearl Harbor. So good, girl, so good. When
you die, I was like, like, it's so good.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
Thank you. That's so fun because I didn't understand the
hierarchy of things. I didn't know. I didn't know. I
didn't I had no idea. I didn't know. And it
was divine. It was amazing.
Speaker 3 (26:20):
It was really like and they're like this is the
biggest like it was the biggest budget movie. D da
da dah blah blah blah, and and I had and
I was just like ya da da, Like I was.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
I was so happy. All I wanted to do is
do the best job.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
Yeah. And isn't Kate beck and Sale just so beautiful too,
Like she's just like I did a movie with her.
I just remember, I'm like, I'm sorry, I'm staring. You're
just so pretty. She's so pretty, and she's so nice.
You're so sweet.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
She's so hilarious, she's so funny, she's so poised.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
Yeah, say Kate, Hi, Kate, She's yeah. I mean I
did the best with her and Adam Sandler, and I
just remember she was out there just like smoking a cigarette,
but she was like so fun and nice and I
was like, oh my god, you're beautiful and your cape
back and sale and I.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
I know, right, she's so brilliant, and it's it's so
nice to be around people that like that are so cool,
like that are so cool. And then but you don't
have to be afraid of them, right, you know what
I mean. Like she's so warm and so loving and
such a great mom. She's so funny, the brilliant, brilliant actor.
Speaker 2 (27:26):
Okay, your favorite, because that was mine.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
Oh you know what, I really loved a lot was
hard on Tixie.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
That was a sweet show.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
I think I can. I think I can go there
because it's different than than filmmaking, like a film. Yeah,
it's still filmmaking you, but it's your You're in it.
For so long, so that has a very special place.
It's really interesting. Now I'm racking my brain and seat,
what was my favorite film?
Speaker 2 (27:55):
Well, you know what, you're about to make it?
Speaker 1 (27:57):
Thank you?
Speaker 2 (27:59):
Thank you yep, percept if you're about to make it,
so that you that's oh yes, let's do it. Well, Jamie,
thank you for coming on. Thank you for vulnerably sharing
things that you've gone through and also talking about things
that most women don't talk about because they're too afraid
to talk about. And I know it's just the beginning,
(28:19):
and I'm excited to see where you go with it
because the more you stand up, others can feel like
they can too.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
So thank you.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
Keep going, you too, all right, Thanks Jamie, appreciate it.
Everyone go see Love Danielle. She plays a sister and
it's such a beautiful film, so go check it out.
Thank you, Jamie, Thank you so much.
Wind Down with Janet Kramer and iHeartRadio Podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Our special guest this week is none other than Jamie King.
She's an actor, filmmaker, activist, and mother and we're going
to get her on to talk all the things. Obviously,
I know who you are and your work and a
big fan of yours, but there's just reading your story too,
and about your life, and there's I just I feel
(00:30):
for you in the because you know, I've been in
custody stuff with my ex and the relationship. I mean,
it's just it's it's hard when it's just so front
and center and you're dealing within kids, and so I
just really empathize with a lot of your story and yeah,
I'm sorry, Like that's a it's it's just a tough situation.
(00:52):
So I don't know how you know how open you
are to that piece of it or if you're just
trying to I've never talked about it, yeah, so and
that yeah, because I'm like, I just feel like I've
heard so much of from that other person, and it's
it's hard because I'm like, I just you know, that's
that to me is sad because it's like you just
(01:13):
because it's not true exactly, yeah, right, And my.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Dudia is and mother is to protect my children absolutely,
and that's all that matters to me. And this is scary.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Oh we don't. We don't have to. I just you know.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
But honestly speaking, the thing is is that I just
didn't know when I, you know, got married at a
young age and something I was very proud of, and
I just didn't know that that the world works like this.
I didn't know that legal systems work like this. And
not to sound like some kind of neophyte, you know,
but I thought that you know, when you choose to
(01:53):
love someone, and you love that person, you bel family
with them and you trust them, and sometimes it's not
always that way. And the reason why I don't speak
ones because I want my h I never wanted my
children to think that any part of them was wrong.
I'm extremely grateful, and at the same time, the system
(02:15):
is really unfair, and I think that it's really important
to support the structure of family and and kindness. Kindness
is the key, It's the key to everything, no matter what.
Just be kind, yeah, and be kind and tell the truth.
And it's not so easy, you know, to speak one's
(02:36):
own truth when you're bombarded with the whole It's like
it's almost like politics. It's like a polittle like a
like a campaign, and it's so stunning, you know, it's
so stunnying, and not in a good way. You know.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
Yeah, yeah, no, I hear you. And it's and it's
too you know, there's I can think back to. Yes,
you know, I've been vocal about my ex husband, but
there are many things that I haven't shared because I
don't want it to affect my kids and because one
day they will read things and they will they will
see things, and you know, but there is I agree
(03:13):
with you on the legal system. I've I've been in
abusive relationships in the past, and you know, even from
the comments to the system, it's it's it's very messed up.
And what they do to women in that and how
they can turn it is is mind blowing. Like from
what you know, I've worked in some shelters and what
(03:33):
I've seen is just I'm like, wait, you, how are
you in trouble for like he he stabbed you fifteen times?
How how are you sitting here in this in this
jail right now? Like it was just and im I
did that work with my therapist because I was working
through my trauma of the guy that tried to kill me,
and you know, it's been but what I saw mostly
(03:55):
was the broken system within that as well with those women.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
So I guess the kind of system that I mean
it really is. It's it's terrifying. Hm, It's truly terrifying,
you know, because what is required of you to even
protect your own self first and foremost is insanely difficult.
(04:23):
The laws that are put into place to protect women
of color and women in general, you know, have been
flipped on there. It makes me emotional, have been because
I've never spoken about this.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
I'm sorry, you know, it's okay.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Thank you have been flipped on their heads. It's heads
one could say, where now? Men are you utilizing these
laws to abuse? Because it's a no fault state. That's
it's terrifying. It's terrifying, you know, when to leave are
(05:03):
to be able to be free means that you have
to pay a very extreme price. And I'm not just
talking about financially, you know, it's it's just, you know,
it's very upsetting and I will do everything in my
power to change the system. And it's not a will
(05:27):
I'm going.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
To well, girl, I'd love to march on with you,
because that is there's so many and that's I appreciate
you sharing that you know that piece. And I know
you said you haven't chatted about it, but it's.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
I haven't chatted.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
The more you talk about it.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
I didn't like, I didn't even know that i'd be
like feel safe enough to even saying anything because I'm scared.
I'm still scared.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
I'm really well, of course, because the abuser is in
the in your ear, and I think for me, that's
the hardest piece. It took me many years to say
that I was abused and I'm and I'm still not
saying by who really yet because by because there's some
people that I haven't actually said because I'm still scared
of them. I'm scared of what they'll do. I'm scared
of what will you know, how it'll get flipped on me.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
There'll always be a consequence, Yeah, like the things that
you put in a place to actually protect yourself will
somehow be flipped around to hurt.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
And used against you or taken or things taken away
from it or in your most vulnerable moments. Things that
I've shared those people will flip it on you, and
that's the piece where and and so, But I I
do believe within talking about it and sharing it can
open eyes because I think it's so messed how it
messed up, how it goes to. They can leave bruises
(06:40):
on your arms or do say X y or do this.
But yet we are still going to the woman and saying, well,
what'd you do? You know? Or let's yeah, and I'm like, oh,
I just I just can't with that whole piece of it.
But so I am, I'm sorry for what you have
gone through. You've had, you know, your your life starting
from you know, your childhood and you know growing up
(07:02):
with the bullying and the you know.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
The I'm sorry drugs, what you're going through.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
Thank you. It's but it's hard because and I don't
I've probably I've only talked about my abuse piece a
few times because that's still the hardest piece to talk
about a because it gets flipped the comments, and it's
the you still have them in your voice going well
did I or do I did I deserve that? Or
yeah or what because they start to try to change
(07:30):
your own perception of what actually happened.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
Yeah, it's like like the it's it's almost like penete
on that donkey or blind folds, like in you're spun around, yeah,
and you're trying to hit some kind of mark and
you don't and that mark just keeps changing. Yeah, So
it's like no matter what it is that you do,
you'll never be enough and it altered. Like it's really
(07:55):
like that dizziness, that that isolation, the constant messaging that
you're something that you're completely not, you know, starts to
color your world. Right. It's like the best way that
I can explain that experience is like when there's a
white wall and someone keeps saying that wall is black,
(08:20):
that wall is black, Like are you crazy? Everyone knows
that wall is black, And then anyone you care about
that wall is black. Don't you see that wall is black.
But they do it with this kind of charisma, this charm,
this this thing that we're supposed to have, you know,
like that like as as filmmakers, as actors, as you know,
(08:44):
as journalists, as people that speak and talk and relate
to the world, that that charisma, that thing, but not
everyone has that thing, and in a way to manipulate
because the amount of the mental level of strategy is
far beyond what I could ever possibly imagine as a
mother and as a filmmaker and as a friend. I mean,
(09:11):
the amount of time that it takes to strategize on
that kind of level. That is what I do, and
I commit to my work to that which I really
care about. You know, it's just extraordinary, you know, not
all loving and you know, mental, physical, emotional energy is
put towards those things that.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
Matter well and being a mom and the mam a
bear and you're wanting to you know, I don't know
if that you're still in that situation, but like I
had to pay SPOLSI support and I'd pay child support
every month to my ex, to my person who hurt
me and did the destruction in our marriage. And that's
a piece of you know that I've gotten to a
place now where I'm like, okay, I'm trying to you know,
(09:54):
not have so much anger and resentment with it. But
there is this, you know, we we work so hard
to provide and to also nurture and care for our
kids as well. So yeah, so I also validate you
and that must be a difficult situation as well. And
to have someone like throwing things out you being like
(10:14):
you're unfit this and like anyone I will like watch me,
mama there like the you know it's like to have
any father say that about I just was like, I can't.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
It's disgusting. I'm just to be clear, like like it's no,
I mean, I might as well just be honest. If
this is the person I'm talking about this with someone
that has gone through it, it's really disturbing, you know,
and it's it's like and also it's not logical or
(10:47):
practical at all.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
It's just to me feels very calculated.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
It just it doesn't make it ends right. So you're
unfit If all of these things are being said, then
how are you fit to then provide for the children?
How are you fit to go work twelve to eighteen
hours a day? How are you fit to you know,
when your entire or my entire marriage, I paid for everything,
(11:12):
the entire like it's I and I and I was proud.
I'm always proud to be the person that or a
person that has earned everything that I have. You know
that that matters to me.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
Yeah, And it's showing your children too, how you know, Yeah,
determination and respect and you know going after your dreams,
Like it's a beautiful, beautiful thing to show your kids.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
That so that's the best. It just doesn't makes sense.
It's like, what price is There's no Like I'm like, well,
there's no price to pay for freedom.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
My therapist taught me with this, and you might you
can take this one too. But where I got to
kind of a piece with it. Where is to me
it's my freedom check. I would rather be out of
it than in it. So if I have to pay it,
it's my freedom check, yes, exactly. And so as much
as I don't like paying it, because right, we all
have stresses to meet needs of other things, you know,
(12:21):
on top of the household and everything else that you
know we do and work and provide. But it's like, Okay,
here's my freedom check to not be with you anymore.
If that's what I have to do to not be
with anymore, I will write this check for the rest
of my life, say till eighteen.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
Right. That's like, if there's no price of the give
your freedom right? Yeah, And it is about that reframing,
you know, that's a really good perspective of your therapist
and you because it's always about like Okay, how do
we you know, continue to do something without feeling resentment
about it? Because I that's not where I prefer to live.
(12:59):
Is that space? And I don't mind? I really don't mind.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
Again, is there so you have loved Danielle right now?
That's that's that's out?
Speaker 1 (13:10):
Do you?
Speaker 2 (13:10):
Is there something within everything that you've gone through that
you were like, I want to create and I want
to play this type of character to be almost like
I remember when I it was not a big movie
by any means, but it was a role where I
got to play someone being abuse and it was I
didn't know how I would handle in being in that role,
but it was ended up being the most therapeutic role
(13:31):
I've ever played, because I mean in one of the
scenes where I'm like being strangled and choked, like, I
ended up having this like wild release from the moment
that you know it happened. So I wonder, is there
something for you where you're like, I want to I
want to tackle maybe drug drug abuse from this age
or you know, the the abuse or to to then
almost not saying you're not over it, but to help
(13:53):
almost heal pieces of you that might still be unhealed.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
I think that with every role that comes to it,
that there is an opportunity to clear and release and
let go of what we've experienced, right and to like
Carrie Fisher always said, you'd take your broken heart and
turn it into art. And for me, acting is not
(14:19):
it's not like just a playing of a person. It's
how we merge ourselves with our own truth inside of
ourselves and the truth within the character. And as you know,
there's always a release when you're in that moment. Right
with Loved Danielle, that film was actually brought to me
(14:42):
originally to direct, and the script was so beautiful and
so complex, and it was all donation based, and it
was on a very short time frame, and I've lost
people that I I'm very close with, you know, to cancer,
(15:03):
and I've been on the border same to cancer for
over a decade and Sean Parker Institute, and so that
really mattered to me. So I was like, you know,
I don't think this is the one that I can
direct right now, but I will be here no matter what.
And so for me, with Love Danielle, it was really
an opportunity to celebrate what Devin went through and her
(15:26):
sister and you know this can like this consistent fight
that not only the family went through. But then I
don't mean fight, I'm talking about fighting a dance cancer.
Obviously that was hard. It was really hard because I
lost my best friend to cancer and and it's it
(15:48):
was but it was joyful too. It was joyful because
I was able to have fun in the experience and again,
you know, clear and release and work through and and
take it different tone, because you know, tone is really
hard sometimes, you know, like how you're approaching a scene
or a topic, you know what I mean, Like, I
(16:08):
don't know if you've ever like read a scene, You're like,
I just don't know what tone this is. Yeah, for this,
like I really understood what tone it was. And it's like,
you know when someone can be laughing when they want
to cry, you know. So it was really taking that
kind of approach. And I'm just very very proud of
the film, and I'm really proud of Devin and Amy
(16:31):
and everyone that made like was able to make that
movie happen.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
It's a scartaining do you have I mean, because you
said you're directing, is there anything you know for you
your kind of dream, either directing or role that you.
I mean, you've played some amazing parts and like you're
you're incredible at what you do. So is there something
for you where you're like, I really want to check
(16:55):
this one off, the you know, check this box off.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
I started my production company a few years ago. It's
called Hooligan Dreamers Productions. And for me, there are multiple
boxes that I want to check off, and they are
for other people and not just myself. We need to
completely well, I don't want to say completely, but the
system needs to be changed. What I care about is
(17:19):
that other humans, other artists, have opportunities to be seen
when they're not seen, to be heard when they're not heard,
to have not just the opportunity to walk into a
room and to share the gifts that they have with
the world, but to actually have that happen, for it
to actually be realized on screen, and you know, to
(17:44):
make people feel less alone. That's really what I care about. Yeah,
that's really what I care about, you know, because there
are positions of power that are I think misrepresented and unnecessary,
and so I just want to tell stories with people
that I love. Yeah, and do it responsibly.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
Let's do it. Let's do let's do one together, Let's
do it.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
No, I mean when I say that, I actually know.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
I'm saying, can we actually be in you know? I'm like,
I'm dreaming up one right now, we're I think the
system got it wrong. We're in prison, yes, you know,
or some or one of us is there and you're
going to help get somebody you know, get me out,
I'll get you out whatever. Yes, you know there's something
I don't know or something there.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
There's something there.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
There really is something there. What do you do talk
about your sobriety at all? Or no?
Speaker 1 (18:34):
I've never had to think about myself like sober or
not sober? Correct I stop using like thirteen seventeen or something.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
Well, i think, what's so? I read that? But then
I'm like, why then did she have to go to rehab?
Like I didn't understand that.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
Oh I didn't like what Now.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
I saw some article that was like no, no, no, no,
that's not she was ordered a six month rehead program,
And I'm like, I wonder, so this is where I
go right with Like with the ex husbands, I'm like,
I bet you because the stories that she, you know,
said when she was younger, you know that he's now
used her.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
That's precisely what happened, and.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
That's so messed up. I literally that was my note.
I just want to say, you know, did he your
husband saying yes? Was that used against you from your
vulnerable conversations that you had when you were younger? Used
against you?
Speaker 1 (19:21):
Yes? Even though I publicly spoken what a system and
have worked through the entirety of my life to protect
people that have gone through those things. Yes, absolutely, Wis.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
I'm so sorry. That is incredible because again, like, don't
mess with my kids, and yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
Essentially what has been said is inaccurate and I I
haven't been able to say anything about it for the
protection of my children. To answer your question, absolutely, that's
what happened, and it's horrifying. It's horrifying. I just I
(20:07):
simply don't know how this is possible. And I don't
want to live my life in shock. I want to
find a solution, but it is. It hurts my heart,
you know, to say the least. And I'm also extremely
extremely grateful for my friends and for the people and
(20:31):
the women and the men that are around me that
are so solid, and I'm so grateful for the strength
inside of my own self, you know, because I have
to look at it from a different perspective to not
get caught up like people have you read. I don't
read anything. I don't read any news, any articles. Why
because that that that energy, and it's just what they want.
(20:56):
It's what they want. They want like they want you
to feel bad. They want to be consumed.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
My husband, my now husband, always says, you know, and
articles will come out that are not nice or that
are not true. It will affect me in a moment.
And then he's like, what's within the four walls? You know,
what is in within the four walls? That is what
the truth is, That is what you need those and
those are the only people that you need to worry about.
(21:37):
Is within what's within the four walls your kids, your
closest friends, everything else they don't know.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
Oh, your husband thinking, that's really that's a really good perspective.
It's true and I and I know that, and I
trust that. That's why it's like the rest is just noise.
It's all noise.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
Yeah, you know, And what what your hope is again
is that which what I love is you're wanting to
now make a difference with what you've gone through and
also using it within your work. So I think that's
there's no' that's the happy ending with it all, you know,
that's the hope with it all, right, you know is
it's a terrible situation.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
That's always been the case. And I think the closer
we get to our truth, the closer we get to
really leading with love, loving, I should say I'm being
of service. The closer and closer we get to the
actualization of it, the more and more you know, negativity.
You can try and push back on it, but that's okay.
It's just part of our process, is part of our learning.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
Yeah, And I think a lot of people, you know,
because we don't have a lot degrees, we don't know
people that might not have been divorced. There are so
many things that you can file that are actually not true,
oh and hurt other people. And I don't think people
understand that. I think you can just go oh, like
I remember one time when my ex husband he had
filed for divorce first because he knew that I was
(22:57):
about to and so he filed first because there's always
something with filing first or whatever, and he had put something.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
That was later I was confused about that part that Yeah, separational,
that stuff.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
And that and that one went away and then until
I filed years later, but he had put something in
that original filing where I was like, wait, that's not true.
And there was this moment that I and I mean
I did. The lawyer was like, well that he can,
he can put that in. I was like, but that's
not true. How could he put it in when it's
not true?
Speaker 1 (23:22):
You know?
Speaker 2 (23:23):
And so I don't think people understand that. And obviously
all that stuff got thrown away, but I'll never forget
that moment because I'm like, wow, it's that's how along
with the system is is that's messed up?
Speaker 1 (23:33):
Yeah, I'm so sorry. I knew that feeling. I sincerely
I understand what you're saying, because that's it's it's it's
it's really ineffable to see something that like, as you're
it's not even a description, that's literally what happens. Yeah,
(23:53):
and like, oh, well that's just the law. It's like
how is that wait? Wait, how is that law?
Speaker 2 (23:58):
Like?
Speaker 1 (23:58):
And how it's like how are you supposed to become
a paralegal or a lawyer? And you know, as like
you're an intelligent woman. I was like, if one more
person tells me, I'm I know, I'm an intelligent woman,
but I'm not.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
I'm not.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
I didn't go I didn't take the bar. Like that
wasn't like my my dream, you know what I mean?
I don't like that's not I need to put my
lovey into something else. And that's like, it's stunning, it's stunning. Yeah,
there's a lot of a lot of mental work. And again,
everything you know is an exercise and ultimately, you know,
(24:34):
it's everything is an opportunity to then be of service
to other people. Right of what what we've gone through
and what we've experienced in our knowledge and what we've learned.
There's God, there's a reason for it, you know, there's
there has to be a reason for it.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
So you have loved Danielle out. What is after that?
Do you have something that you're filming or directing? Posts this?
Speaker 1 (24:58):
Yes, I I did four films this year that I'm
very excited about girl, and I'm preparing to direct my
first feature that I'm also very excited about. I haven't
announced that one yet.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
Okay, Well, I'm just having.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
The best time. I'm just having the best time in
terms of like writing and filmmaking and producing and just
seeing the beauty of so many artists and what it
is that they do, and getting to spend every day,
you know, focusing not only on my children and my family,
(25:34):
but also like bringing the like these children of the artists,
like what they want to make and what they want
to say to life. It's so so beautiful.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
Yeah, I agree with you. What is it a little
fast around here? What's your favorite thing that you've been in? Oh,
I'll start Pearl Harbor. So good, girl, so good. When
you die, I was like, like, it's so good.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
Thank you. That's so fun because I didn't understand the
hierarchy of things. I didn't know. I didn't know. I
didn't I had no idea. I didn't know. And it
was divine. It was amazing.
Speaker 3 (26:20):
It was really like and they're like this is the
biggest like it was the biggest budget movie. D da
da dah blah blah blah, and and I had and
I was just like ya da da, Like I was.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
I was so happy. All I wanted to do is
do the best job.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
Yeah. And isn't Kate beck and Sale just so beautiful too,
Like she's just like I did a movie with her.
I just remember, I'm like, I'm sorry, I'm staring. You're
just so pretty. She's so pretty, and she's so nice.
You're so sweet.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
She's so hilarious, she's so funny, she's so poised.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
Yeah, say Kate, Hi, Kate, She's yeah. I mean I
did the best with her and Adam Sandler, and I
just remember she was out there just like smoking a cigarette,
but she was like so fun and nice and I
was like, oh my god, you're beautiful and your cape
back and sale and I.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
I know, right, she's so brilliant, and it's it's so
nice to be around people that like that are so cool,
like that are so cool. And then but you don't
have to be afraid of them, right, you know what
I mean. Like she's so warm and so loving and
such a great mom. She's so funny, the brilliant, brilliant actor.
Speaker 2 (27:26):
Okay, your favorite, because that was mine.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
Oh you know what, I really loved a lot was
hard on Tixie.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
That was a sweet show.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
I think I can. I think I can go there
because it's different than than filmmaking, like a film. Yeah,
it's still filmmaking you, but it's your You're in it.
For so long, so that has a very special place.
It's really interesting. Now I'm racking my brain and seat,
what was my favorite film?
Speaker 2 (27:55):
Well, you know what, you're about to make it?
Speaker 1 (27:57):
Thank you?
Speaker 2 (27:59):
Thank you yep, percept if you're about to make it,
so that you that's oh yes, let's do it. Well, Jamie,
thank you for coming on. Thank you for vulnerably sharing
things that you've gone through and also talking about things
that most women don't talk about because they're too afraid
to talk about. And I know it's just the beginning,
(28:19):
and I'm excited to see where you go with it
because the more you stand up, others can feel like
they can too.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
So thank you.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
Keep going, you too, all right, Thanks Jamie, appreciate it.
Everyone go see Love Danielle. She plays a sister and
it's such a beautiful film, so go check it out.
Thank you, Jamie, Thank you so much.
Host
Jana Kramer
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