October 18, 2024 • 52 mins
In this episode of Pop Culture Weekly, Julie Bowen steps out of her iconic "Modern Family" shoes and into the 1980s satanic panic with her new series "HYSTERIA!," alongside horror legend Bruce Campbell. Dive into the thrills and laughs of this unconventional blend of horror, comedy, and psychological tension, now available on Peacock. As Bowen embraces the challenge of exploring new acting territories, Campbell shares why this intelligent series captured his interest, with its authentic backdrop and witty script, promising a unique treat for horror enthusiasts and casual viewers alike.
Pivoting from the supernatural to the deeply personal, join Kyle McMahon for an inspiring set of conversations with the creative minds behind "Exhibiting Forgiveness." This film, featuring the talents of Andra Day, André Holland, and John Earl Jelks, marks Titus Kaphar's transition from celebrated contemporary painter to filmmaker. Titus shares his journey and the powerful autobiographical elements that influence the film’s exploration of themes like fatherhood and forgiveness.
Discover how the film resonates with the black community, shedding light on universal truths and human complexities through its compelling narrative.Forgiveness emerges as a central theme in their discussions, explored not just as a narrative element but as an ongoing and transformative process.
With Andra Day, they unravel the significance of crafting enduring art that challenges perspectives on fatherlessness and the pivotal roles women play in family dynamics. Andre Holland and John Earl Jelks delve into their personal connections to their characters, revealing emotional depths that enhance their performances. Through these stories, we emphasize the importance of empathy, understanding, and the healing power of new relationships. Join us for these enriching conversations that blend storytelling, art, and personal growth into a powerful listening experience.
Kyle McMahon's Death, Grief & Other Sh*t We Don't Discuss is now streaming: https://www.deathandgrief.show/Chapter-One-The-Diagnosis-AKA-WTF/
---------------
Get all the Pop Culture Weekly podcast info you could want including extra content, uncut interviews, photos, videos & transcripts at: https://podcast.popcultureweekly.com
Watch celebrity interviews at: https://www.facebook.com/realkylemcmahon/videos
or Kyle McMahon YouTube at: https://www.youtube.com/officialkylemcmahon
Read the latest at http://www.PopCultureWeekly.com
Follow Kyle on:
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/realkylemcmahon
Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/kmacmusic
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@popcultureweekly
Website: http://www.kylemcmahon.me
Pivoting from the supernatural to the deeply personal, join Kyle McMahon for an inspiring set of conversations with the creative minds behind "Exhibiting Forgiveness." This film, featuring the talents of Andra Day, André Holland, and John Earl Jelks, marks Titus Kaphar's transition from celebrated contemporary painter to filmmaker. Titus shares his journey and the powerful autobiographical elements that influence the film’s exploration of themes like fatherhood and forgiveness.
Discover how the film resonates with the black community, shedding light on universal truths and human complexities through its compelling narrative.Forgiveness emerges as a central theme in their discussions, explored not just as a narrative element but as an ongoing and transformative process.
With Andra Day, they unravel the significance of crafting enduring art that challenges perspectives on fatherlessness and the pivotal roles women play in family dynamics. Andre Holland and John Earl Jelks delve into their personal connections to their characters, revealing emotional depths that enhance their performances. Through these stories, we emphasize the importance of empathy, understanding, and the healing power of new relationships. Join us for these enriching conversations that blend storytelling, art, and personal growth into a powerful listening experience.
Kyle McMahon's Death, Grief & Other Sh*t We Don't Discuss is now streaming: https://www.deathandgrief.show/Chapter-One-The-Diagnosis-AKA-WTF/
---------------
Get all the Pop Culture Weekly podcast info you could want including extra content, uncut interviews, photos, videos & transcripts at: https://podcast.popcultureweekly.com
Watch celebrity interviews at: https://www.facebook.com/realkylemcmahon/videos
or Kyle McMahon YouTube at: https://www.youtube.com/officialkylemcmahon
Read the latest at http://www.PopCultureWeekly.com
Follow Kyle on:
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/realkylemcmahon
Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/kmacmusic
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@popcultureweekly
Website: http://www.kylemcmahon.me
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
In this episode of pop Culture Weekly, I talk with
the horror icon Bruce Campbell and Julia Bowen all about
their series Hysteria End the incredible cast of the incredible
film Exhibiting Forgiveness, including Andre Day, Andre Holland, John Earl Jelks,
and the creator, producer, director himself, Titus cat Far.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Let's go.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Welcome to pop Culture Weekly with Kyle McMahon from iHeartRadio
your pop culture news, views, reviews and celebrity interviews on
all the movies, TV music, and pomp culture U Crab Weekly.
Here's Kyle McMahon.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
No, no, no, Hello, and welcome to pop Culture Weekly
with Kyle McMahon. I of course am Kyle McMahon. And
this episode, you know we're in spooky season, but this
episode has got some spookiness and it's also got some incredible,
incredible interviews, both from the spooky part and the dramatic
(01:09):
art part. I speak with the cast of Exhibiting Forgiveness,
which you've heard me talk about. This film. It stars
Andre Day and Andrea Holland and gen Earl Jelks. It
is directed by, conceived by produced by the incredible Titis Kafar,
(01:32):
and we're going to get into that. I also talk
with horror icon legend scream King maybe the one and
only Bruce Campbell himself. I also speak with Julie Bowen,
and I speak with Julie and Bruce about their new
(01:52):
series Hysteria, which is available exclusively on Peacock. The series
also premiered on sci Fi and USA Network on October eighteenth.
But it is a wonderfully crazy, horror filled show about
the satanic panic of the eighties and a quarterback disappears
(02:15):
which causes whispers of like, you know, the occult in
the town and satanic influences, and this heavy metal band
called Death Crunch decide to kind of capitalize on it.
It is really funny, it's really scary, it's a great show,
and I mean it's got freaking Julie Bowen, Modern Family
(02:37):
Queen Claire Dunfee herself, and it's got the one and
only Bruce Campbell. So like, you can't go wrong with
either of those. So let's start up first with Julie Bowen.
You may know Julie from her incredible work, Emmy winning work.
She's won multi, multiple, multiple Emmys for her two hundred
(03:00):
and fifty episodes as Claire Dunfie on Modern Family. She's
awesome and I love her in Hysteria. So let's dive
right into my conversation with the one and knownly Julie Bowen.
Thank you so much for joining me, Julie, I really
appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (03:17):
Thank you, Kyle. It's a pleasure.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Pleasure is mine. So first of all, I love I
love Hysteria. I'm a huge horror film film buff, horror buff.
I'm a huge comedy buff obviously, and this, I feel
kind of beautifully marries so many genres here. What was
it that you that drew you to the project?
Speaker 4 (03:41):
I think exactly what you just said, the fact.
Speaker 5 (03:43):
That it's not straight horror. You know, I don't love
straight horror. I don't love like gruesome things. This felt
very psychologically terrifying and fun because the aspect with the
music in the eighties, and I love that sort of
mash up between the pop thriller and the psychological questioning
(04:08):
of this woman's sanity.
Speaker 4 (04:10):
That was the fun part for me.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
And did you you know it's interesting that you say
that because looking at your film, you know, your filmography,
your body of work, you have who be Halloween and
you know, the the kind of genre projects that you've
done are not really or none of them are straight
up you know, horror or whatever. They all have some
(04:32):
kind of element of something else, you know, and so
that is purposeful for you.
Speaker 4 (04:38):
Yeah, very much.
Speaker 6 (04:39):
So.
Speaker 5 (04:39):
I mean, I was lucky enough to play a sitcom
mom for eleven years, and I love Claire Dunfi and
always will. But as an actress, you do want to
do something different, and you also are I'm taking a
huge risk. But when I read the pilot for Hysteria,
I thought, oh, she's a mom and the kids have
all the fun stuff. And then when I got to
(05:02):
the end of it and realized, oh no, there's so
much fun stuff for Linda. It's just very unexpected that
I thought, I think maybe maybe the audience can go
along on that journey. It's hard sometimes for people to
see characters from popular sitcoms take on a different role.
Speaker 4 (05:20):
They're like, why are you doing that?
Speaker 5 (05:21):
My dad could not was very mad that Sophia made
herself ugly for Griselda, and he said.
Speaker 4 (05:30):
Oh, tell her.
Speaker 5 (05:34):
So sometimes it's hard for people to see you outside
of a role when you've done it for so long.
Speaker 4 (05:39):
But I feel like this one.
Speaker 5 (05:41):
It subverts itself, but I think I think the viewers
will go along for the ride.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
So do I. And you know, of course you've won
two Emmys for your role, and obviously congratulations, but but
I do find it interesting and I think it's it's
necessary when you have, you know, actors, creators in general,
that that you need to kind of spread your wings
(06:07):
sometimes and and it'ch another or what's it, scratch another itch,
you know, or and so you've done that beautifully. And
I love the mish mash of you know. I love
the nostalgia the eighties thing and the marriage with the
music and and the fears that were very real throughout
(06:28):
many periods of history with this satanic panic and all
of that, and it really, you know, kind of smartly
melds so many numerous things to work as an excellent series.
Speaker 4 (06:39):
You know, Thank you, I mean you just you said
it all. Do you want to do the rest of
my interviews today? Yes, it is. It is not horror.
Speaker 5 (06:49):
It is it is a real genre bender, and I
hope that invites a lot of people into watch, even
chickens like me who are terrified of a jump scare.
Speaker 4 (06:58):
This is not this is not.
Speaker 5 (07:01):
Straight horror, it is not uh straight comedy, but it
really does blend a whole bunch of elements and it
does give me a chance to yeah, scratch a different.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
Inche speaking of jump Scares, was it. Did anybody ever
try to scare you on set?
Speaker 4 (07:19):
On set?
Speaker 5 (07:21):
The ibers ever tried to scare me purposely?
Speaker 4 (07:25):
Or my children?
Speaker 5 (07:26):
And then I play their iPads when they were little,
and they know now when they come into the house,
they if they go, Mom, it's me, Mom, it's me
as they walk to the whole house because if they
scare me, I am I am done for about an hour,
Alan DeGeneres loved scaring.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Me, loved it.
Speaker 4 (07:47):
Didn't love it. I love Ellen, but didn't love that. No,
they would not.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
I was.
Speaker 5 (07:51):
They knew how it was kind of hard to be
as crazy as as Linda is, and it was psychologically trying.
Speaker 4 (08:00):
So if somebody had scared me, I think I would have.
I don't know, I'm going to punch them.
Speaker 5 (08:06):
Well.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
I love that that your you know, fellow actors and
crew and everything recognized that and and you know, left
you alone for this project.
Speaker 5 (08:18):
Yeah, when you see the last two episodes, you'll understand
what I'm talking about. But I get put in some
positions as an actress and as a character that were trying.
Speaker 4 (08:29):
None of that was cgied.
Speaker 5 (08:32):
And when you see, Oh God, I hope they were
nice to you at the end of the day, and
they were very nice.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
Thank you Julie so much. It's a pleasure to talk
to you. I can't wait for everybody to see Hysteria
so I can talk about it with people.
Speaker 4 (08:45):
Great. Thank you, Kyle, I appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
Thank you, have a good day. Thanks Julie Bowen. Love her.
She is hysterically funny and I love her in Hysteria,
which you can write. Watch you can watch right now
on Pea Cock or USA or sci Fi. So all right,
next up, horror Icon. Bruce Campbell has been on my
(09:09):
bucket list of people I want to interview for since
I was a kid, and he's best known for his
role as Ash Williams in the Evil Dead franchise. He's
also been in Maniac Cop, Bubba Hotzap, The Adventures of
Briscoe County, Junior, Hercules, The Legendary Journeys, and zena Warrior Princess.
(09:33):
He played Sam Axe in burn Notice on USA for
Like years and years, and he's done so freaking much, books, movies, games,
TV series, all of it. He is a horror icon
and industry icon, and I am so excited to talk
to the one and only Bruce Campbell. Thank you so
(09:57):
much for joining me, Bruce, I really appreciate it.
Speaker 6 (10:00):
Thanks Guyle.
Speaker 7 (10:00):
It happened to be in the neighborhood that i'd step in.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
I love it. So, First of all, congratulations on Hysteria.
I really love the series. I love how it genre
bends and it's so enjoyable. What drew you, the legendary
Bruce Campbell to Hysteria.
Speaker 7 (10:19):
If it's horror, I get real picky. I get pick
here as an old guy. But with horror, I'm real picky,
and it has to be it's the words, you know,
as an actor, I would do a movie called Maniac Cop. Today,
when I do the movie, I don't know, I don't know.
But in nineteen eighty whatever, Yeah, let's do a movie
(10:39):
called Maniac Cop. So your taste change over time. So
in this case, if it's horror, you know, the agent's
tends the script it's horror comedy, blah blah blah. And
I was like, okay, sure, you know you read it
because they're submitting it. And look, it's it's NBC Universal.
This is Peacock Burn. Notice, Hercule, I actually do have
(11:01):
history with these with these people, so I'm like, let
me take a look. And the words jumped out of me.
I played the chief of police of this small town
in eighties Michigan, and I'm from Michigan. I knew Michigan
in the eighties. I knew small towns. So it really
was authentic and it was a fresh approach. And I
thought it was written kind of for adults, if that
(11:24):
makes any sense, rather than just trying to go for
simple quick scares or you know, cheap whatever.
Speaker 6 (11:32):
It's good.
Speaker 7 (11:32):
There's a lot of psycho horror, and the psycho horror
is the best kind because you don't know. You're like,
is it real or is it not real? And my
character has to do the same thing. Is it real
or is it not real?
Speaker 2 (11:44):
Yeah? Yeah, And it really is such a pleasure, you know,
obviously I'm a horror buff, and it's such a pleasure full,
pleasureful watch. You know, it's the eighties aesthetic, the marriage
with the music, everything just kind of beautifully blends into
plays and there's so much, especially today, so much horror
(12:05):
content and horror adjacent content and genre content that that
I watch anyway, But but you know, this really truly.
Speaker 7 (12:14):
Is horror horror adjacent.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
I would say it's it's kind of a mixture. I think, yeah, yeah,
I mean it's kind of a mixture of you know,
you know it does You're right on the money. It
kind of mixes in and out. You know, it's it's
it's very well done. And that that's why I love
it so much. And it plays up when the you know,
the satanic panic and that you know, there's so many
elements going on there that that really just make it
(12:41):
enjoyable for not just.
Speaker 7 (12:42):
You don't have to make up the satanic panic. It
was real, right, meaning the panic was real? Right, Yes,
was the satanic part of it real? That that's for
theologians to debate. But very few court cases of actual
demand they have had they came up with a phrase,
(13:03):
you know, demonic something something possession or demonic. They just
there's always creeps doing bad things to children, right, there's
always going to that's not gonna change. But a lot
of things got rolled up into that that weren't that
and so it The complaint that a lot of officials
(13:27):
had is that diverted time and resources away from actual
problems that children were having, rather than dealing with all
these perceived problems of my kid's going to be taken
away into a satanic cult and brainwashed and all that.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (13:42):
So it's fun, we you know. And small towns, by
the way, small towns aren't current. So this is set
in the eighties. It really is the seventies. Small towns
are an extra decade behind. So this is a good
town to do this with. If you're gonna mess with
a town, as we'll mess with a small Michigan town
in the eighties because they're not ready for this.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Yeah. Yeah, and let me ask you quickly. Any update
on the Evil Dead franchise.
Speaker 7 (14:10):
Yeah, we got a couple more on the hopper. The
last one made the most money I ever made of
any of the Evil Dead movies, so we'd be kind
of idiots to not pursue that. So, yeah, we have
more in the pipeline.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
I love it, can't wait and I can't wait for
everybody to see Hysteria. It is so good. And I'm
saying that not just as a horror buff All, the
horror buff should watch it. But it's just a great series.
It really is, and it's perfect for this time of year,
and I love it. So thank you the legendary Bruce
Campbell Hysteria exclusively on Peacock. Thank you, sir, Thank you
(14:42):
Bruce Campbell. I cannot believe that I interviewed Bruce Campbell
Ash himself, Ash Williams. It's just like a dream come
true for me. You have no idea, So I'm so
excited about that. Let's take a break real quick, and
then we're gonna shift gears and and discuss the incredible
(15:02):
new film Exhibiting Forgiveness with Titus Kafar, Andre Holland, gen
Earl Jelks and Andre Day. Will be back in sixty seconds.
Thank you for sticking around and supporting our sponsors who
make Pop Culture Weekly happen each and every week. They
(15:23):
allow me to do what I do for you. They
allow me to do these great interviews and videos and
social media and posts and reviews, and I thank you
for supporting them, just like you support me. All Right,
we're shifting gears here for the back half of the episode.
Exhibiting Forgiveness is such an incredible film. It is conceived, directed,
(15:49):
by produced by Titus Kafar, who Titus is an incredible,
incredible artist. He is an American contempt pray painter. He
deals a lot, primarily, i would say, with black subjects,
African American subjects, and some of his paintings are in MoMA,
(16:12):
Yale University Art Gallery, the Seattle Art Museum, Brooklyn Museum,
and more all over the world. He kind of rose
to prominence with the Vesper Project, which was a fictional
about a fictional black family in the nineteenth century that
is able to pass for white, and so all of it,
(16:33):
all the entire project, paintings, multimedia, is all this incredible
installation where you could walk through this nineteenth century house.
It's really really just mind boggling how his brain works.
He's so so just he is art. This is his
(16:56):
first feature film, you know, his directorial debut, Exhibiting Forgiveness,
and he lined up quite the cast Andre Holland, Andre Day,
John Earl Jelks, and Andrea Ellis Taylor who we had
on a few episodes ago. But basically the film revolves
around this black artist who's kind of rising to prominence
(17:21):
and then his success is, you know, threatened by the
return of his long absent, problematic father and what comes
from that, and it you know, it looks at how
family and close relationships can affect every part of our lives,
(17:41):
whether we realize it or not. And so it's just
an incredible, incredible film. I know, I keep saying it's
an incredible film. It is an incredible film, and please
go see it. So we're going to start with Titus
himself and he can set the tone for the rest
of our interviews. So let's just jump right into my
interview with the one and only Titus Kofar. Thank you
(18:02):
so much, Titus for speaking with me. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 6 (18:05):
It's nice to meet you, Kyle. It's nice to meet you.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
Nice to meet you as well. The film is absolutely
incredible you and your body of work, you know, I
wonder I know you've done a short before, but as
a narrative, you know, feature writer, director, this is your first.
Why was this story important for you to tell, Kyle.
Speaker 6 (18:29):
That's a really good question.
Speaker 8 (18:30):
This was the story to tell because of my sons. Man,
I have two boys. My oldest is seventeen, my youngest
is fifteen, and my seventeen year old is going off
to college next year, and his whole life, I'd been
telling him, I'll tell you a little bit more about
my past.
Speaker 6 (18:46):
I'll tell you a little bit more. I'll tell you
a little bit more when you're older.
Speaker 8 (18:50):
And well, he's definitely old enough now, and so I
felt like this is a perfect time to sit.
Speaker 6 (18:55):
Down and start writing.
Speaker 8 (18:56):
So it didn't initially start as a script, you know,
It's started as me trying to figure out how to
tell my boys about their dad. And I would wake
up in the morning about five o'clock. I would start writing,
and then i'd go to the studio and I would
listen to what I wrote. I have this app on
my phone that allows me to listen to what I write,
And while I was listening, I'd start sketching and drawing,
(19:18):
and so all of the script became painting at the
same time.
Speaker 6 (19:22):
So when I was done, I.
Speaker 8 (19:24):
Had a whole narrative, and then I had a whole
series of paintings as well. By the way, those paintings
are on viewing Beverly Hills at Gogojin Gallery up until
November two.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
If you happen to be around awesome. Thank you and
how much of this for you? How much of the
film is autobiographical, if any.
Speaker 8 (19:43):
So much of the film is autobiographical, you know, once
you take it from that narrative, that personal story, and
you put it in the script form, a bunch of
things change. My mother, thank god, it is still alive.
It's my grandmother who passed. The character in the film
is a conflation of my mother and my grandmother, because
they were both put should be towards this idea of forgiveness.
I stepped on that nail before I got to the dump,
(20:05):
not at the dump. The scene that happens upstairs happens
in my studio, not at the gallery.
Speaker 6 (20:12):
So there are little things like that.
Speaker 8 (20:14):
The character of the wife is very different, but there
are things like that that are different, but fundamentally the
truth of the.
Speaker 6 (20:20):
Narrative that is based on my story, and.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
You know, it's so brave of you. I did a
series of shows called Oprah's Life Class with Oprah and
told my story about my father who had left before
I was born. So, you know it, while it's very
different in many ways our stories in that regard, there's
also so many similarities and father less ness in many
(20:51):
ways whether it's a completely absent father from the gate
or an absent father for chunks of time or whatever.
Their lessness is such an epidemic in this country. And
it's always for me it was important as a man
to tell that story. And I think it's so brave
(21:13):
of you, uh, And it's it's it's brave of anybody
to tell their story, but particularly as a man when
it relates to your father. And we're dealing with this
epidemic of fatherlessness, particularly from boys, and and particularly in
the black community. It is vital that we have strong,
(21:35):
positive people that are brave enough to go and say,
this is who I am, and this is what happened
to me, and and I'm learning from it and making,
you know, changing those behaviors for that I could see
or patterns or whatever in myself. So it's better for
my children, you know.
Speaker 8 (21:55):
I mean, that's exactly that's that's that's the whole point,
right there, man, you you said right there.
Speaker 6 (22:01):
I feel like for me, it was about the next generation.
Speaker 8 (22:03):
It was about my kids, about making sure that I
was not passing on these same kind of burdens to them.
It's a story that is heavy. Sometimes I'm not gonna lie.
It is heavy sometimes, but ultimately this is a film
about healing, and I think that healing comes through our children,
comes through in this film. It comes through the strategy
(22:24):
of making art and using that art and bringing the
hope of that to the children. I wanted desperately to
make sure that I didn't make the same mistakes that
my father made, and what it took for me to
come to that was recognizing that, in fact, my father
was not a villain. My father was a victim of
(22:46):
the circumstance that he was brought into when his father
was just as challenging to him. I'm writing this film
and going through this process gave me a compassion for
him that frankly, I never had before. And the idea
of forgivingness and this film is one that's different from
what I had before, and probably different from what people
think of when they generally think about forgiveness. This is
(23:08):
not a story of forgiveness where we say to you, yeah,
you give forgiveness and then enter back into a place
of danger where this person could hurt you in this way.
Speaker 6 (23:19):
Again, it's not that it's not that I've watched so.
Speaker 8 (23:22):
Many people, particularly my mother and my grandmother and my
aunties go back into situations give forgiveness and end up
in the exact same situation again.
Speaker 6 (23:32):
In this film, what we're.
Speaker 8 (23:34):
Talking about is kind of forgiveness that allows you to
be able to release your burdens, to be able to
put the stuff that you're carrying down so that you
can move into your own future. And that may mean,
that may mean I say I forgive you, I release
you of whatever debt that you have, but I'm going
this direction, and it seems to me that you're going
(23:55):
that direction, and that is Okay.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
Wow, that's so powerful. Thank you for that. And you know,
I do think as you're saying that, it makes me
realize that forgiveness does not at all have to mean
things are back to normal, or we're amazing and we're
going to hang out, or I'm going to call you
every day or anything as you're saying.
Speaker 8 (24:21):
I want to speak to that for just a second,
because I think there is this notion of forgiving and
forgetting and I think it's dangerous. And the reason I
think it's dangerous is because what we do is we
tell victims to pretend like it never happened, just forget
it and I don't think that that is actually healing,
that is just pretending. I don't think that forgiveness has
(24:44):
to mean that.
Speaker 6 (24:45):
You have forgotten.
Speaker 8 (24:47):
If you have completely forgotten, then how are you going
to learn that life lesson? You have to remember some
aspects of it so you do not repeat the situation
again in the future.
Speaker 6 (24:59):
I am.
Speaker 8 (25:00):
I'm not an advocate of the idea that we just
forgive and forget.
Speaker 6 (25:04):
And then we go have a beer.
Speaker 8 (25:06):
There are situations where that's the right context, but not
in every context, and as the person who is harmed,
it is your choice as to how you go about
that process.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Yes, yes, that's so powerful, and more of us need
to remember that, not just with huge heavy issues like
a father or a mother, but toxic friendships or relationships
or work or whatever.
Speaker 6 (25:33):
So my friend Christian A.
Speaker 8 (25:35):
Smith, he says, forgiveness requires a renegotiation of boundaries, and
that doesn't have to be with a father, or that
could be with a friend.
Speaker 6 (25:49):
I can say I forgive you and unfriend you.
Speaker 8 (25:52):
I can say I forgive you and we still need
to break up. I can say I forgive you, but
I'm going this way, And as I said, seems like
you're going that way and that's okay, that's not what
we talk about. We find ourselves pushed into these situations
where we're like, I must forgive this person. I must
(26:12):
forgive this person. And the reason that that's difficult is
because what we're saying to ourselves is I gotta pretend
like this thing that actually was harming, that did damage
to me, I gotta pretend like it didn't actually happen.
That's the only way that I can be back in relationship.
I don't think that's the right way to do it.
I really don't.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
I that's perfectly said. You know, it's interesting to me
that for somebody like you or myself, that, particularly with
the father angle, you know, there's this inherent desire, at
least for me, that you want that father in your life.
(26:52):
You know, you want him to be there. And I
had to get to a place that I learned with
a Miss oh Oprah and Miss Yanla, that that it
was never about me. It was never an intentional decision
on his part to say I'm going to hurt the
sperm because I wasn't even born yet. You know, it was,
(27:14):
as you're you're saying, a victim of his own circumstances
that he was unable to be there, and it seems
very much similar to you in that he had so
many of his own demons and things that he was
suffering from. That it wasn't you know saying Titus, I'm
(27:35):
going to intentionally hurt you. It was he didn't know
any better and was trying to survive.
Speaker 6 (27:42):
But I think I think you're dead on with that.
I think that.
Speaker 8 (27:48):
We live this life and for those of us who
have gone through this issue of fatherlessness, sometimes God, the universe,
circumstance or Quinns brings into your life a kind of
figure that is not your father, but there to help
you learn some of those lessons. You got to keep
(28:11):
yourself open to that. You got to pay attention to that.
If you're so stuck in just trying to get that
what was ultimately a toxic relationship back or some version
of that back, you're not going to be open to
these moments of healing that are being sent to you
through new individuals.
Speaker 6 (28:30):
That enter into your life. It's just not going to happen.
Speaker 8 (28:33):
So I mean, I hope that the film brings people
into a space where they can have conversations about this thing.
This is not one of those kinds of movies that
you kind of watch and forget.
Speaker 6 (28:44):
Is just not going to be that. This is the
thing that people said to me.
Speaker 8 (28:48):
The other thing that has been wonderful about this film
is it has been people from all walks of life
who have come up to me after and said, man,
that's my story too, white whatever, that's my story too.
My father was the same way, where my mother was
the same way. I hope that in a moment where
(29:08):
in the world it feels like, you know, people are
divided and not coming together, maybe just for a couple hours,
we can come together around this idea of forgiveness.
Speaker 2 (29:21):
Titus, Thank you. I could talk to you all day.
You're an amazing creator, and I can't wait for everybody
to see the film. It's so incredible, so good to
talk to you. Thank you, brother, Talk to you soon,
all right. Titus Kafar just a genius. He's just a genius,
and there's not much more to say about that. I
(29:42):
can't wait to see what he's gonna be doing next,
because I'll certainly be following it, all right. Next up,
Andre Day, who oh another one. She is a Grammy
Award winner and an Emmy Award winner, a Golden Globe
or Winner Award winner, dominated for an Academy Award. She
(30:04):
wrote and sang the song Rise Up and Arizo so
ooh that song is just an anthem. But she also acts.
She obviously she starred as Billie Holliday in the United
States First Billie Holliday. You may have seen her recently
in the Netflix original the Lee Daniels film The Deliverance
(30:25):
with Monique and Glenn Close and Omar EPs Octavia Spencer.
She was awesome in that, and she is really, really,
really awesome in exhibiting forgiveness. So let's get into it.
My interview with the one and Only Andrew Day, Thank
you so much for speaking with me. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 9 (30:47):
Hi, Thank you so much.
Speaker 10 (30:49):
Kyle.
Speaker 9 (30:49):
How are you.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
I'm doing well? Thank you. Congratulations on the film. It is,
of course, it is so powerful, so moving. I really
am like a huge cheerleader for this film because it
just spoke to me and left me thinking, you know
(31:10):
a lot about it? Yes, And I feel like so
much art today is made to be disposable or made
for you to go see it and then you go
see the sequel and then you buy the merch and
all that, and oftentimes I feel that we lose sight
of art itself. And so this is such a powerful
(31:34):
film for me, and Titus and Andrew all of you
have done such an incredible job with it. What drew
you to making this, I.
Speaker 11 (31:45):
Think probably the same thing that like moved you when
you saw it. I think that's how I felt when
I read the script.
Speaker 6 (31:52):
First.
Speaker 11 (31:52):
First, what drew me to it was Titus Kafar's name
on the front of the script. I was like, uh,
what A huge fan of his work as a painter,
and so I was very excited to see to.
Speaker 9 (32:03):
See him delving into film.
Speaker 11 (32:06):
And then I read the script and I knew from
reading it that it was personal. I knew just because
it was so visceral, you know what I mean, And
so and I just I knew. I didn't I didn't
care if I was a janitor for ten seconds in
this movie. I was like, I want to be a
part of this film. So so I think that's what
drew me.
Speaker 9 (32:25):
And then just the theme of forgiveness.
Speaker 11 (32:26):
I think the real examination of forgiveness this movie is
not like all right, I'm sorry, Okay, I forgive you
and we're over it, you know what I mean, there's
just listen, there's still stuff, even at the end of
the film that maybe feels a little unresolved or feels
because forgiveness is a process, it's a work, and I
love that it it examines that truly and says that
(32:48):
it's a hard fought battle and it's a choice you
kind of have to make every day, and it's and
it's and it's a scary thing, you know.
Speaker 2 (32:55):
Yeah. Yeah. I was talking to Titus about the film.
Him and I have similar you know, I have my
own fatherless story. It's different to his, but similar. And
he and I were talking and he kind of said
this thing that just wowed me, and that was we always,
(33:19):
especially fatherless men, fatherless boys, always seemed to make the
father of the super villain, often for our own lives,
for our whole lives. And what he learned for him
was that he wasn't a villain. He was doing He
was a flawed human that was doing the best he
(33:42):
could he thought he could with what he knew and
what he thought he had.
Speaker 11 (33:47):
Right and to a degree, you know, when you look
at the film, when you look at Larron's character, also
when you think about the crack epidemic, if that was
the particular thing that took your father or your parent
from you, they were also as hard as it is
to admit, they were also kind of a victim as
well too, you know what I mean, like, which is,
you know, of circumstance. I know that everyone makes their
(34:07):
own choices, but you know, that was that took a
lot of people, you know what I'm saying out of
particularly the black and brown community, and so you know,
it's hard, it's I mean, I think it's even harder
to look at that person as you know, sort of
a victim of circumstance and their own choices.
Speaker 6 (34:23):
But yeah, yeah, what.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
Have you learned about forgiveness from the film? You know,
from working on the film, And what does forgiveness mean
to you?
Speaker 9 (34:36):
Well, forgiveness for me.
Speaker 11 (34:37):
So my perspective may be a little different from some
people's because my forgiveness is intrinsic to my faith and
so you know, I forgiveness for me is something that
is from God and that is of God, and that
has been you know, given to me, and that I
am because I love God, I am too extend forgiveness
to everyone.
Speaker 9 (34:57):
You know, what I mean.
Speaker 11 (34:58):
And I think there is misconception that forgiveness means that
everything someone did to you is all of a sudden Okay,
it's okay, they're all hooked there or whatever, which is
not the case.
Speaker 9 (35:09):
It's not saying that it's okay.
Speaker 11 (35:10):
But what it is saying is that I am freeing myself,
you know what I mean, and you of the burden
of carrying this wait anymore, of carrying resentment and carrying
those things. And because you know, unforgiveness can lie to
us and make us feel like it's a refuge when
really it's a prison, you know. And so forgiveness to
me is is that and also you know, but but
(35:33):
this movie did help me to understand that.
Speaker 9 (35:35):
You know, it's not just something you do when you
get over the next day.
Speaker 11 (35:38):
It is a process, and it's a very hard fought battle,
and it is a choice that you have to make
every day even when you don't feel like forgiving. If
you're waiting for the moment that I feel like forgiving,
it may.
Speaker 9 (35:49):
Never come, but you still have to forgive, you know.
Speaker 11 (35:51):
So making the choice to do that, I think is
more important than having the feeling of it, you know.
Speaker 9 (35:56):
What I mean.
Speaker 2 (35:57):
Yeah, I love that and for you, you know, I
did a number of episodes of Oprah's Life Class with
with Oprah on on fatherlessness, uh, fatherless sons and and
she changed changed my life and uh. But one of
the things that I learned from that was that fatherlessness
(36:20):
is an epidemic, particular particularly with boys, and particularly with
black and brown boys. And you know, so as we
as as communities, as a community try to to change that.
The fact is that that oftentimes it is my mom,
(36:42):
my grandmother, my uncles that have helped me to get
through that which I felt this massive loss for in
the film, you are a support system in the way
that you can be have you is that something that
(37:06):
you have drawn from from your own life, that you
have supported a boy or a man or whatever in
there because it's hard enough for women.
Speaker 11 (37:18):
But I was like, yes, I've drawn from real life, right,
particularly black and brow women drawn from real life?
Speaker 9 (37:26):
Or like, yes, have we supported a boy or a man?
Speaker 2 (37:28):
Yes we have exactly, And you know, so I wonder
how much of that from your own life is in her?
Speaker 11 (37:37):
Yeah, it's absolutely, you know. I just think that that
is that, to be honest with you, that was almost
the easiest point to find my way into, you know
what I mean, because into her character because we know
we do know what that's like. And to be honest
with you, as women, we often know what it's like
to put yourself on the back burner for a man's career,
(37:59):
for his desire, for his trauma, for his pain, for
his fabulousness, even as women, for us to put our
own fatherlessness on the back burner for you know what
I mean, their foss. So there's definitely she's absolutely a
support system and that was definitely something I was able
to to a way I was able to enter into
her and I think, but what I love though, what
(38:21):
I love about her character is she supported him. We
are taught you support unequivocally, you support, without question, you support,
You put every all of your dreams on the shelf.
Speaker 9 (38:31):
You don't think about da da da.
Speaker 11 (38:33):
And in a lot of ways we've all done that
and we've been taught that. But in a lot of
ways that can actually be harmful and have an antithetical
effect to effect to loving someone into supporting them. What
I love about Ayesha's character is it's one of the
rare times you see that She supports and loves him
(38:53):
by being there for him, by you know, making adjustments, compromising,
but she also supports him by being uncompromised and by
being unwavering in her dream and her life. She loves
and supports him by loving and supporting herself. And I
think it's very important because she has understood now, because
she comes from a similar background to Terrell. She understands
(39:14):
that she cannot pour from an empty cup. And so
I love the moments in the movie where he reminds
her and she reminds him it is my turn. We
establish this because I think we always adjust to sort
of these tempestuous environments without realizing that sometimes when we
do that, we lose the anchor that keeps us moving forward,
you know what I mean, And so we're floating.
Speaker 9 (39:35):
You don't realize it.
Speaker 11 (39:36):
So she does this amazing thing where she loves him
in that way, but she also loves him by telling
him no. She also loves him by saying, you know,
I'm going to keep you. I'm going to keep us
adhering to the promises we made each other in this marriage.
And I think that's really important. I love that about
her character. And they're dynamic in general.
Speaker 2 (39:56):
Yeah, I love it. I love your work in it.
I can't wait. Like I said, I'm gonna be screaming
from the rooftops for everybody to see exhibiting forgiveness. Thank
you so much, Andrew. It's a joy to talk to you.
Speaker 9 (40:08):
Thank you same same, bless you.
Speaker 2 (40:10):
Thank you. Have a great day to take care Andre Day.
Love her, love her voice, love her, love her art,
and love her role in exhibiting forgiveness. She's just a triumph.
And I can't wait. This is going to win all
the awards. I'm telling you all right, Last, but not least,
(40:32):
we have the heart really of exhibiting forgiveness. Andre Holland
as Terrell and John Earl jelks as Lauren. John Earl
jelks Is has mostly worked in theater. An extremely well
known theatrical actor, he has been nominated for a Tony
(40:56):
Award as Best Actor. He has a very long list
of awards that he's won for his acting. He's also
been in some films, film or two. He was in
a Miracle at St Anna from Spike Lee, season three
of True Detective on HBO, and he has a recurring
(41:18):
role in Showtimes on becoming a god in Central Florida.
I really hope that this is the role. I believe
it is the role that John Earl Jelks wins is
nominated for and wins an Oscar. He deserves it. And then.
Andre Holland is widely known for his performance as Kevin
(41:41):
in Moonlight, the Academy Award winning film. He also played
Matt Miller in American horror story Roanoke, which you know
I loved. He was in Selma, which you know I
was in Selma. He's been on stage, on screen and
in our lives, and he's incredible. I've been using that
word a lot, but it is the word. So here
(42:02):
it is my interview with Andre Holland and John Earl Jelks.
Thank you so much, Andrea and John for joining me.
I really appreciate it. Thank you, Thanks happy.
Speaker 6 (42:13):
To be here.
Speaker 2 (42:14):
Thank you. First of all, congratulations on the film. It
is incredibly powerful. It is so deep and layered and
really stays with you in a way that not many
films today, I don't think. Do What is it that
drew you both to the film, Andre, did you want
(42:38):
to start script?
Speaker 10 (42:40):
Man? The script was outstanding, you know, in the very
first draft I read, I was like, man, this is
special and it only got better from there. I would
say that the chance to work with such brilliant artists
like John Andrew, Andrew, you know, Titus, the cast is
so stacked, you know.
Speaker 6 (42:57):
It was, it was an amazing experience.
Speaker 10 (42:59):
So I would say those two things for me made
it really easy to say yes.
Speaker 2 (43:03):
And how about you, John.
Speaker 12 (43:05):
I totally agree with that. And to be able to
work with such a brilliant artist and Titus, I mean,
it's art work speaks for myself. So I just had
to know, well, I knew from just reading it this
is going to be a pretty special piece of work
because there's so much truth in everything that I've was saying,
(43:27):
you know, in the script. So yeah, that's what Drew
and sew is being able to read it and know
who he was and then work with, like Andre said,
these brilliant actors. I mean, like, what is not to
want to be a part of something like that, you
know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (43:42):
Yeah, I was just speaking with Titus and he was
him and I were discussing how much of himself is
in this story and in this work. I wondered it.
You know, it made me wonder for both of you,
how much of you, how much of Andre, how much
of John or in the these characters.
Speaker 10 (44:03):
I'll say that I think a lot, a lot, you know.
Speaker 6 (44:05):
I feel like when you.
Speaker 10 (44:08):
Approach a role like this, but really any role, you know,
I think you got to offer yourself to it if
you're gonna if you're gonna be honest, you know. I mean,
there's like there's the character on the page, and then
there's the person, the human, the actor, and over the
course of the time the rehearsal process, those two things
kind of come together.
Speaker 6 (44:27):
And so when I.
Speaker 10 (44:28):
When I watched the movie, now you know, yeah, I
understand that I'm playing a character, but also like I
offered a lot of myself to it.
Speaker 6 (44:37):
Is that how you think about it, I do.
Speaker 12 (44:38):
And And to add on to that is that I
believe that I obtually stole a lot. But what I
mean by stole, I inherited another way. That was my grandfather,
father and now me, even if it was to me
that I'm trying to correct from those two, I was
able to do that, and as you said, that's an
(44:59):
actually be playing character. But at the same time I
got a chance to take from some other places, and
I just took strictly from the book my grandfather and
my father.
Speaker 2 (45:09):
That's so powerful. And I love that you say that,
because you know it's Titus and I we're talking it.
We were discussing our you know, my own father lessness,
his fatherlessness, and two different kind of versions of that.
But he said something that was so like an AHA
moment for me where he said, they're not always the
(45:33):
super villains that we've made them out to be. You know,
where for me, for my father who had left when
my mom got pregnant, I had and then chose, you know,
not to be around. I had always made him out
to be this, you know, horrible person, and how can
you do that? And the bottom line is that no
matter what he is as a person, he is still
(45:54):
a person and was dealing with his own issues and
and was doing was living life how he was equipped
to do it, you know what I'm saying. And as
you say that, you know, John, with you there are
in this character, there is people that you know, And
it just struck me about these you know, these super
(46:16):
villains that they are not. They're humans just like us,
no matter what choices they've made. You know, did you
find any healing in in playing Laurn.
Speaker 12 (46:29):
Not only did I find healing, I've got a chance
to find out, well not so much find out. We
got a chance to see if my grandfather or my
father was sable to articulate what Tityus had put inside
of that film, that's.
Speaker 6 (46:47):
What they would have said. Wow, that's what they probably
would have done.
Speaker 12 (46:50):
They would have done, they would have became a better
version of themselves. Well, once again, they wasn't equipped to
do that. They only passed down what they knew, right,
and what they didn't know. Like my father's always tell me,
I don't know what to tell you. So if you
don't know what to tell you, you got to try to
figure it out on your own.
Speaker 2 (47:11):
Yeah. Yeah, And how about for you, Andre, was there
people in your life that you were able to draw
from for this or was this you you know, diving
in as an artist completely?
Speaker 6 (47:25):
Both? Yeah, it was both.
Speaker 10 (47:26):
I mean there are definitely places where I borrow from
the relationship with my dad and with my mom, you know. Yeah,
other places where I had to imagine, like being a
father for instance. I'm not a father, so I had
to you know, make some imaginative leaps to think about
what that might be like. But that's the magic of it,
(47:46):
right You take what you know and you put it
a little bit of what you don't know and mix
it all up together to stew and somehow it like,
you know, you create a character. So I'm glad you
dug it man.
Speaker 2 (47:57):
It really truly is an incredible piece of art and
for you, for both of you, what do you hope
to that somebody takes? Because, like I said, for me,
I just don't think this is kind of one of
those I'm a huge Deadpool and Wolverine fan, you know,
I love those kinds of movies, but it's not something
that you know is created to make you think and
(48:20):
really kind of, you know, this film is truly art
and has stuck with me. What do you hope a
viewer takes when they leave watching it?
Speaker 6 (48:35):
I mean, you know, I think that.
Speaker 10 (48:40):
I hope that people consider what forgiveness means to them
in like a different way. I certainly have reframed my
understanding of what it means to forgive. And if there
are conversations that people need to have with folks while
they have time, then I think that, you know, I
hope the movie inspires them to do that, and also
I hope that people I hope that people run to
(49:01):
see this movie and that they pack the theaters and
continue to pack the theaters because you know, I also
understand what me and when we said they're pulling over
in great movies like a.
Speaker 6 (49:11):
Lot of fun.
Speaker 10 (49:12):
But I think sometimes Hollywood doesn't believe that movies like these, yeah,
can like be successful, you know, and are worth doing
and are worth investing in. So I hope that you know,
your audience and audiences all the world will come and
see the movie and support it so that we can
keep making art like this absolutely and alter that.
Speaker 12 (49:32):
I appreciate what you know you doing, and people like
yourselves are spreading the word because it takes that you know,
you've seen it and you know what it is to
go and tell other people to go sit and you
said it earlier, and hopefully everyone inspire someone else to
maybe tell their own version or their own story something simpler,
because once again, like you said, how it was not
(49:53):
going to get behind movies like that's necessarily yeah, but
if we show that these stories need to be told,
you need to be seen, you never know the next
one and then the next one in the next one,
and so on and so forth, and also Forgiveness may not
be what it looks like to everybody's different.
Speaker 2 (50:14):
I love that. I'm a huge champion for this film.
I can't I'll be screaming it from the rooftops. Exhibiting Forgiveness.
Thank you both so much. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 6 (50:25):
Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 2 (50:26):
Appreciate you man, Thank you. Have a great day. Thanks
Andre Holland and John Earl Jels. Exhibiting Forgiveness. You have
to see it, I'm telling you. The premiere at Sundance
in January and is out in a limited theatrical run
beginning today October eighteenth. Well, I guess it depends on
(50:50):
when you're listening to it, but either way, it's out
in a limited theatrical run. You need to do yourself
a favor and see this film. It is going to
be nominated for everything, and it deserves it because it's really,
really that good. I'm telling you. I cried, I laughed,
I smiled, I felt, I felt, I felt. Do yourself
(51:12):
a favor. See Exhibiting Forgiveness right now and watch Hysteria.
I want to know what you think about both of them.
Hit me up on socials. You know where to find
me pop Culture Weekly or at KMAC Music or Kyle McMahon,
whatever it is, find me. Let me know. If you're
listening to the show on the iHeartRadio app, you can
use the talkback button and it sends me your voice
(51:34):
message right to my email box and you might just
be featured on the show. All right, I will see
you next week. I love you, we are.
Speaker 3 (51:44):
Thank you for listening to pop Culture Weekly. Here all
the latest at popcultureweekly dot com.
Speaker 7 (51:54):
Hasteri Sti Sterffy Oh
In this episode of pop Culture Weekly, I talk with
the horror icon Bruce Campbell and Julia Bowen all about
their series Hysteria End the incredible cast of the incredible
film Exhibiting Forgiveness, including Andre Day, Andre Holland, John Earl Jelks,
and the creator, producer, director himself, Titus cat Far.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Let's go.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Welcome to pop Culture Weekly with Kyle McMahon from iHeartRadio
your pop culture news, views, reviews and celebrity interviews on
all the movies, TV music, and pomp culture U Crab Weekly.
Here's Kyle McMahon.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
No, no, no, Hello, and welcome to pop Culture Weekly
with Kyle McMahon. I of course am Kyle McMahon. And
this episode, you know we're in spooky season, but this
episode has got some spookiness and it's also got some incredible,
incredible interviews, both from the spooky part and the dramatic
(01:09):
art part. I speak with the cast of Exhibiting Forgiveness,
which you've heard me talk about. This film. It stars
Andre Day and Andrea Holland and gen Earl Jelks. It
is directed by, conceived by produced by the incredible Titis Kafar,
(01:32):
and we're going to get into that. I also talk
with horror icon legend scream King maybe the one and
only Bruce Campbell himself. I also speak with Julie Bowen,
and I speak with Julie and Bruce about their new
(01:52):
series Hysteria, which is available exclusively on Peacock. The series
also premiered on sci Fi and USA Network on October eighteenth.
But it is a wonderfully crazy, horror filled show about
the satanic panic of the eighties and a quarterback disappears
(02:15):
which causes whispers of like, you know, the occult in
the town and satanic influences, and this heavy metal band
called Death Crunch decide to kind of capitalize on it.
It is really funny, it's really scary, it's a great show,
and I mean it's got freaking Julie Bowen, Modern Family
(02:37):
Queen Claire Dunfee herself, and it's got the one and
only Bruce Campbell. So like, you can't go wrong with
either of those. So let's start up first with Julie Bowen.
You may know Julie from her incredible work, Emmy winning work.
She's won multi, multiple, multiple Emmys for her two hundred
(03:00):
and fifty episodes as Claire Dunfie on Modern Family. She's
awesome and I love her in Hysteria. So let's dive
right into my conversation with the one and knownly Julie Bowen.
Thank you so much for joining me, Julie, I really
appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (03:17):
Thank you, Kyle. It's a pleasure.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Pleasure is mine. So first of all, I love I
love Hysteria. I'm a huge horror film film buff, horror buff.
I'm a huge comedy buff obviously, and this, I feel
kind of beautifully marries so many genres here. What was
it that you that drew you to the project?
Speaker 4 (03:41):
I think exactly what you just said, the fact.
Speaker 5 (03:43):
That it's not straight horror. You know, I don't love
straight horror. I don't love like gruesome things. This felt
very psychologically terrifying and fun because the aspect with the
music in the eighties, and I love that sort of
mash up between the pop thriller and the psychological questioning
(04:08):
of this woman's sanity.
Speaker 4 (04:10):
That was the fun part for me.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
And did you you know it's interesting that you say
that because looking at your film, you know, your filmography,
your body of work, you have who be Halloween and
you know, the the kind of genre projects that you've
done are not really or none of them are straight
up you know, horror or whatever. They all have some
(04:32):
kind of element of something else, you know, and so
that is purposeful for you.
Speaker 4 (04:38):
Yeah, very much.
Speaker 6 (04:39):
So.
Speaker 5 (04:39):
I mean, I was lucky enough to play a sitcom
mom for eleven years, and I love Claire Dunfi and
always will. But as an actress, you do want to
do something different, and you also are I'm taking a
huge risk. But when I read the pilot for Hysteria,
I thought, oh, she's a mom and the kids have
all the fun stuff. And then when I got to
(05:02):
the end of it and realized, oh no, there's so
much fun stuff for Linda. It's just very unexpected that
I thought, I think maybe maybe the audience can go
along on that journey. It's hard sometimes for people to
see characters from popular sitcoms take on a different role.
Speaker 4 (05:20):
They're like, why are you doing that?
Speaker 5 (05:21):
My dad could not was very mad that Sophia made
herself ugly for Griselda, and he said.
Speaker 4 (05:30):
Oh, tell her.
Speaker 5 (05:34):
So sometimes it's hard for people to see you outside
of a role when you've done it for so long.
Speaker 4 (05:39):
But I feel like this one.
Speaker 5 (05:41):
It subverts itself, but I think I think the viewers
will go along for the ride.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
So do I. And you know, of course you've won
two Emmys for your role, and obviously congratulations, but but
I do find it interesting and I think it's it's
necessary when you have, you know, actors, creators in general,
that that you need to kind of spread your wings
(06:07):
sometimes and and it'ch another or what's it, scratch another itch,
you know, or and so you've done that beautifully. And
I love the mish mash of you know. I love
the nostalgia the eighties thing and the marriage with the
music and and the fears that were very real throughout
(06:28):
many periods of history with this satanic panic and all
of that, and it really, you know, kind of smartly
melds so many numerous things to work as an excellent series.
Speaker 4 (06:39):
You know, Thank you, I mean you just you said
it all. Do you want to do the rest of
my interviews today? Yes, it is. It is not horror.
Speaker 5 (06:49):
It is it is a real genre bender, and I
hope that invites a lot of people into watch, even
chickens like me who are terrified of a jump scare.
Speaker 4 (06:58):
This is not this is not.
Speaker 5 (07:01):
Straight horror, it is not uh straight comedy, but it
really does blend a whole bunch of elements and it
does give me a chance to yeah, scratch a different.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
Inche speaking of jump Scares, was it. Did anybody ever
try to scare you on set?
Speaker 4 (07:19):
On set?
Speaker 5 (07:21):
The ibers ever tried to scare me purposely?
Speaker 4 (07:25):
Or my children?
Speaker 5 (07:26):
And then I play their iPads when they were little,
and they know now when they come into the house,
they if they go, Mom, it's me, Mom, it's me
as they walk to the whole house because if they
scare me, I am I am done for about an hour,
Alan DeGeneres loved scaring.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Me, loved it.
Speaker 4 (07:47):
Didn't love it. I love Ellen, but didn't love that. No,
they would not.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
I was.
Speaker 5 (07:51):
They knew how it was kind of hard to be
as crazy as as Linda is, and it was psychologically trying.
Speaker 4 (08:00):
So if somebody had scared me, I think I would have.
I don't know, I'm going to punch them.
Speaker 5 (08:06):
Well.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
I love that that your you know, fellow actors and
crew and everything recognized that and and you know, left
you alone for this project.
Speaker 5 (08:18):
Yeah, when you see the last two episodes, you'll understand
what I'm talking about. But I get put in some
positions as an actress and as a character that were trying.
Speaker 4 (08:29):
None of that was cgied.
Speaker 5 (08:32):
And when you see, Oh God, I hope they were
nice to you at the end of the day, and
they were very nice.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
Thank you Julie so much. It's a pleasure to talk
to you. I can't wait for everybody to see Hysteria
so I can talk about it with people.
Speaker 4 (08:45):
Great. Thank you, Kyle, I appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
Thank you, have a good day. Thanks Julie Bowen. Love her.
She is hysterically funny and I love her in Hysteria,
which you can write. Watch you can watch right now
on Pea Cock or USA or sci Fi. So all right,
next up, horror Icon. Bruce Campbell has been on my
(09:09):
bucket list of people I want to interview for since
I was a kid, and he's best known for his
role as Ash Williams in the Evil Dead franchise. He's
also been in Maniac Cop, Bubba Hotzap, The Adventures of
Briscoe County, Junior, Hercules, The Legendary Journeys, and zena Warrior Princess.
(09:33):
He played Sam Axe in burn Notice on USA for
Like years and years, and he's done so freaking much, books, movies, games,
TV series, all of it. He is a horror icon
and industry icon, and I am so excited to talk
to the one and only Bruce Campbell. Thank you so
(09:57):
much for joining me, Bruce, I really appreciate it.
Speaker 6 (10:00):
Thanks Guyle.
Speaker 7 (10:00):
It happened to be in the neighborhood that i'd step in.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
I love it. So, First of all, congratulations on Hysteria.
I really love the series. I love how it genre
bends and it's so enjoyable. What drew you, the legendary
Bruce Campbell to Hysteria.
Speaker 7 (10:19):
If it's horror, I get real picky. I get pick
here as an old guy. But with horror, I'm real picky,
and it has to be it's the words, you know,
as an actor, I would do a movie called Maniac Cop. Today,
when I do the movie, I don't know, I don't know.
But in nineteen eighty whatever, Yeah, let's do a movie
(10:39):
called Maniac Cop. So your taste change over time. So
in this case, if it's horror, you know, the agent's
tends the script it's horror comedy, blah blah blah. And
I was like, okay, sure, you know you read it
because they're submitting it. And look, it's it's NBC Universal.
This is Peacock Burn. Notice, Hercule, I actually do have
(11:01):
history with these with these people, so I'm like, let
me take a look. And the words jumped out of me.
I played the chief of police of this small town
in eighties Michigan, and I'm from Michigan. I knew Michigan
in the eighties. I knew small towns. So it really
was authentic and it was a fresh approach. And I
thought it was written kind of for adults, if that
(11:24):
makes any sense, rather than just trying to go for
simple quick scares or you know, cheap whatever.
Speaker 6 (11:32):
It's good.
Speaker 7 (11:32):
There's a lot of psycho horror, and the psycho horror
is the best kind because you don't know. You're like,
is it real or is it not real? And my
character has to do the same thing. Is it real
or is it not real?
Speaker 2 (11:44):
Yeah? Yeah, And it really is such a pleasure, you know,
obviously I'm a horror buff, and it's such a pleasure full,
pleasureful watch. You know, it's the eighties aesthetic, the marriage
with the music, everything just kind of beautifully blends into
plays and there's so much, especially today, so much horror
(12:05):
content and horror adjacent content and genre content that that
I watch anyway, But but you know, this really truly.
Speaker 7 (12:14):
Is horror horror adjacent.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
I would say it's it's kind of a mixture. I think, yeah, yeah,
I mean it's kind of a mixture of you know,
you know it does You're right on the money. It
kind of mixes in and out. You know, it's it's
it's very well done. And that that's why I love
it so much. And it plays up when the you know,
the satanic panic and that you know, there's so many
elements going on there that that really just make it
(12:41):
enjoyable for not just.
Speaker 7 (12:42):
You don't have to make up the satanic panic. It
was real, right, meaning the panic was real? Right, Yes,
was the satanic part of it real? That that's for
theologians to debate. But very few court cases of actual
demand they have had they came up with a phrase,
(13:03):
you know, demonic something something possession or demonic. They just
there's always creeps doing bad things to children, right, there's
always going to that's not gonna change. But a lot
of things got rolled up into that that weren't that
and so it The complaint that a lot of officials
(13:27):
had is that diverted time and resources away from actual
problems that children were having, rather than dealing with all
these perceived problems of my kid's going to be taken
away into a satanic cult and brainwashed and all that.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (13:42):
So it's fun, we you know. And small towns, by
the way, small towns aren't current. So this is set
in the eighties. It really is the seventies. Small towns
are an extra decade behind. So this is a good
town to do this with. If you're gonna mess with
a town, as we'll mess with a small Michigan town
in the eighties because they're not ready for this.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Yeah. Yeah, and let me ask you quickly. Any update
on the Evil Dead franchise.
Speaker 7 (14:10):
Yeah, we got a couple more on the hopper. The
last one made the most money I ever made of
any of the Evil Dead movies, so we'd be kind
of idiots to not pursue that. So, yeah, we have
more in the pipeline.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
I love it, can't wait and I can't wait for
everybody to see Hysteria. It is so good. And I'm
saying that not just as a horror buff All, the
horror buff should watch it. But it's just a great series.
It really is, and it's perfect for this time of year,
and I love it. So thank you the legendary Bruce
Campbell Hysteria exclusively on Peacock. Thank you, sir, Thank you
(14:42):
Bruce Campbell. I cannot believe that I interviewed Bruce Campbell
Ash himself, Ash Williams. It's just like a dream come
true for me. You have no idea, So I'm so
excited about that. Let's take a break real quick, and
then we're gonna shift gears and and discuss the incredible
(15:02):
new film Exhibiting Forgiveness with Titus Kafar, Andre Holland, gen
Earl Jelks and Andre Day. Will be back in sixty seconds.
Thank you for sticking around and supporting our sponsors who
make Pop Culture Weekly happen each and every week. They
(15:23):
allow me to do what I do for you. They
allow me to do these great interviews and videos and
social media and posts and reviews, and I thank you
for supporting them, just like you support me. All Right,
we're shifting gears here for the back half of the episode.
Exhibiting Forgiveness is such an incredible film. It is conceived, directed,
(15:49):
by produced by Titus Kafar, who Titus is an incredible,
incredible artist. He is an American contempt pray painter. He
deals a lot, primarily, i would say, with black subjects,
African American subjects, and some of his paintings are in MoMA,
(16:12):
Yale University Art Gallery, the Seattle Art Museum, Brooklyn Museum,
and more all over the world. He kind of rose
to prominence with the Vesper Project, which was a fictional
about a fictional black family in the nineteenth century that
is able to pass for white, and so all of it,
(16:33):
all the entire project, paintings, multimedia, is all this incredible
installation where you could walk through this nineteenth century house.
It's really really just mind boggling how his brain works.
He's so so just he is art. This is his
(16:56):
first feature film, you know, his directorial debut, Exhibiting Forgiveness,
and he lined up quite the cast Andre Holland, Andre Day,
John Earl Jelks, and Andrea Ellis Taylor who we had
on a few episodes ago. But basically the film revolves
around this black artist who's kind of rising to prominence
(17:21):
and then his success is, you know, threatened by the
return of his long absent, problematic father and what comes
from that, and it you know, it looks at how
family and close relationships can affect every part of our lives,
(17:41):
whether we realize it or not. And so it's just
an incredible, incredible film. I know, I keep saying it's
an incredible film. It is an incredible film, and please
go see it. So we're going to start with Titus
himself and he can set the tone for the rest
of our interviews. So let's just jump right into my
interview with the one and only Titus Kofar. Thank you
(18:02):
so much, Titus for speaking with me. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 6 (18:05):
It's nice to meet you, Kyle. It's nice to meet you.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
Nice to meet you as well. The film is absolutely
incredible you and your body of work, you know, I
wonder I know you've done a short before, but as
a narrative, you know, feature writer, director, this is your first.
Why was this story important for you to tell, Kyle.
Speaker 6 (18:29):
That's a really good question.
Speaker 8 (18:30):
This was the story to tell because of my sons. Man,
I have two boys. My oldest is seventeen, my youngest
is fifteen, and my seventeen year old is going off
to college next year, and his whole life, I'd been
telling him, I'll tell you a little bit more about
my past.
Speaker 6 (18:46):
I'll tell you a little bit more. I'll tell you
a little bit more when you're older.
Speaker 8 (18:50):
And well, he's definitely old enough now, and so I
felt like this is a perfect time to sit.
Speaker 6 (18:55):
Down and start writing.
Speaker 8 (18:56):
So it didn't initially start as a script, you know,
It's started as me trying to figure out how to
tell my boys about their dad. And I would wake
up in the morning about five o'clock. I would start writing,
and then i'd go to the studio and I would
listen to what I wrote. I have this app on
my phone that allows me to listen to what I write,
And while I was listening, I'd start sketching and drawing,
(19:18):
and so all of the script became painting at the
same time.
Speaker 6 (19:22):
So when I was done, I.
Speaker 8 (19:24):
Had a whole narrative, and then I had a whole
series of paintings as well. By the way, those paintings
are on viewing Beverly Hills at Gogojin Gallery up until
November two.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
If you happen to be around awesome. Thank you and
how much of this for you? How much of the
film is autobiographical, if any.
Speaker 8 (19:43):
So much of the film is autobiographical, you know, once
you take it from that narrative, that personal story, and
you put it in the script form, a bunch of
things change. My mother, thank god, it is still alive.
It's my grandmother who passed. The character in the film
is a conflation of my mother and my grandmother, because
they were both put should be towards this idea of forgiveness.
I stepped on that nail before I got to the dump,
(20:05):
not at the dump. The scene that happens upstairs happens
in my studio, not at the gallery.
Speaker 6 (20:12):
So there are little things like that.
Speaker 8 (20:14):
The character of the wife is very different, but there
are things like that that are different, but fundamentally the
truth of the.
Speaker 6 (20:20):
Narrative that is based on my story, and.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
You know, it's so brave of you. I did a
series of shows called Oprah's Life Class with Oprah and
told my story about my father who had left before
I was born. So, you know it, while it's very
different in many ways our stories in that regard, there's
also so many similarities and father less ness in many
(20:51):
ways whether it's a completely absent father from the gate
or an absent father for chunks of time or whatever.
Their lessness is such an epidemic in this country. And
it's always for me it was important as a man
to tell that story. And I think it's so brave
(21:13):
of you, uh, And it's it's it's brave of anybody
to tell their story, but particularly as a man when
it relates to your father. And we're dealing with this
epidemic of fatherlessness, particularly from boys, and and particularly in
the black community. It is vital that we have strong,
(21:35):
positive people that are brave enough to go and say,
this is who I am, and this is what happened
to me, and and I'm learning from it and making,
you know, changing those behaviors for that I could see
or patterns or whatever in myself. So it's better for
my children, you know.
Speaker 8 (21:55):
I mean, that's exactly that's that's that's the whole point,
right there, man, you you said right there.
Speaker 6 (22:01):
I feel like for me, it was about the next generation.
Speaker 8 (22:03):
It was about my kids, about making sure that I
was not passing on these same kind of burdens to them.
It's a story that is heavy. Sometimes I'm not gonna lie.
It is heavy sometimes, but ultimately this is a film
about healing, and I think that healing comes through our children,
comes through in this film. It comes through the strategy
(22:24):
of making art and using that art and bringing the
hope of that to the children. I wanted desperately to
make sure that I didn't make the same mistakes that
my father made, and what it took for me to
come to that was recognizing that, in fact, my father
was not a villain. My father was a victim of
(22:46):
the circumstance that he was brought into when his father
was just as challenging to him. I'm writing this film
and going through this process gave me a compassion for
him that frankly, I never had before. And the idea
of forgivingness and this film is one that's different from
what I had before, and probably different from what people
think of when they generally think about forgiveness. This is
(23:08):
not a story of forgiveness where we say to you, yeah,
you give forgiveness and then enter back into a place
of danger where this person could hurt you in this way.
Speaker 6 (23:19):
Again, it's not that it's not that I've watched so.
Speaker 8 (23:22):
Many people, particularly my mother and my grandmother and my
aunties go back into situations give forgiveness and end up
in the exact same situation again.
Speaker 6 (23:32):
In this film, what we're.
Speaker 8 (23:34):
Talking about is kind of forgiveness that allows you to
be able to release your burdens, to be able to
put the stuff that you're carrying down so that you
can move into your own future. And that may mean,
that may mean I say I forgive you, I release
you of whatever debt that you have, but I'm going
this direction, and it seems to me that you're going
(23:55):
that direction, and that is Okay.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
Wow, that's so powerful. Thank you for that. And you know,
I do think as you're saying that, it makes me
realize that forgiveness does not at all have to mean
things are back to normal, or we're amazing and we're
going to hang out, or I'm going to call you
every day or anything as you're saying.
Speaker 8 (24:21):
I want to speak to that for just a second,
because I think there is this notion of forgiving and
forgetting and I think it's dangerous. And the reason I
think it's dangerous is because what we do is we
tell victims to pretend like it never happened, just forget
it and I don't think that that is actually healing,
that is just pretending. I don't think that forgiveness has
(24:44):
to mean that.
Speaker 6 (24:45):
You have forgotten.
Speaker 8 (24:47):
If you have completely forgotten, then how are you going
to learn that life lesson? You have to remember some
aspects of it so you do not repeat the situation
again in the future.
Speaker 6 (24:59):
I am.
Speaker 8 (25:00):
I'm not an advocate of the idea that we just
forgive and forget.
Speaker 6 (25:04):
And then we go have a beer.
Speaker 8 (25:06):
There are situations where that's the right context, but not
in every context, and as the person who is harmed,
it is your choice as to how you go about
that process.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Yes, yes, that's so powerful, and more of us need
to remember that, not just with huge heavy issues like
a father or a mother, but toxic friendships or relationships
or work or whatever.
Speaker 6 (25:33):
So my friend Christian A.
Speaker 8 (25:35):
Smith, he says, forgiveness requires a renegotiation of boundaries, and
that doesn't have to be with a father, or that
could be with a friend.
Speaker 6 (25:49):
I can say I forgive you and unfriend you.
Speaker 8 (25:52):
I can say I forgive you and we still need
to break up. I can say I forgive you, but
I'm going this way, And as I said, seems like
you're going that way and that's okay, that's not what
we talk about. We find ourselves pushed into these situations
where we're like, I must forgive this person. I must
(26:12):
forgive this person. And the reason that that's difficult is
because what we're saying to ourselves is I gotta pretend
like this thing that actually was harming, that did damage
to me, I gotta pretend like it didn't actually happen.
That's the only way that I can be back in relationship.
I don't think that's the right way to do it.
I really don't.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
I that's perfectly said. You know, it's interesting to me
that for somebody like you or myself, that, particularly with
the father angle, you know, there's this inherent desire, at
least for me, that you want that father in your life.
(26:52):
You know, you want him to be there. And I
had to get to a place that I learned with
a Miss oh Oprah and Miss Yanla, that that it
was never about me. It was never an intentional decision
on his part to say I'm going to hurt the
sperm because I wasn't even born yet. You know, it was,
(27:14):
as you're you're saying, a victim of his own circumstances
that he was unable to be there, and it seems
very much similar to you in that he had so
many of his own demons and things that he was
suffering from. That it wasn't you know saying Titus, I'm
(27:35):
going to intentionally hurt you. It was he didn't know
any better and was trying to survive.
Speaker 6 (27:42):
But I think I think you're dead on with that.
I think that.
Speaker 8 (27:48):
We live this life and for those of us who
have gone through this issue of fatherlessness, sometimes God, the universe,
circumstance or Quinns brings into your life a kind of
figure that is not your father, but there to help
you learn some of those lessons. You got to keep
(28:11):
yourself open to that. You got to pay attention to that.
If you're so stuck in just trying to get that
what was ultimately a toxic relationship back or some version
of that back, you're not going to be open to
these moments of healing that are being sent to you
through new individuals.
Speaker 6 (28:30):
That enter into your life. It's just not going to happen.
Speaker 8 (28:33):
So I mean, I hope that the film brings people
into a space where they can have conversations about this thing.
This is not one of those kinds of movies that
you kind of watch and forget.
Speaker 6 (28:44):
Is just not going to be that. This is the
thing that people said to me.
Speaker 8 (28:48):
The other thing that has been wonderful about this film
is it has been people from all walks of life
who have come up to me after and said, man,
that's my story too, white whatever, that's my story too.
My father was the same way, where my mother was
the same way. I hope that in a moment where
(29:08):
in the world it feels like, you know, people are
divided and not coming together, maybe just for a couple hours,
we can come together around this idea of forgiveness.
Speaker 2 (29:21):
Titus, Thank you. I could talk to you all day.
You're an amazing creator, and I can't wait for everybody
to see the film. It's so incredible, so good to
talk to you. Thank you, brother, Talk to you soon,
all right. Titus Kafar just a genius. He's just a genius,
and there's not much more to say about that. I
(29:42):
can't wait to see what he's gonna be doing next,
because I'll certainly be following it, all right. Next up,
Andre Day, who oh another one. She is a Grammy
Award winner and an Emmy Award winner, a Golden Globe
or Winner Award winner, dominated for an Academy Award. She
(30:04):
wrote and sang the song Rise Up and Arizo so
ooh that song is just an anthem. But she also acts.
She obviously she starred as Billie Holliday in the United
States First Billie Holliday. You may have seen her recently
in the Netflix original the Lee Daniels film The Deliverance
(30:25):
with Monique and Glenn Close and Omar EPs Octavia Spencer.
She was awesome in that, and she is really, really,
really awesome in exhibiting forgiveness. So let's get into it.
My interview with the one and Only Andrew Day, Thank
you so much for speaking with me. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 9 (30:47):
Hi, Thank you so much.
Speaker 10 (30:49):
Kyle.
Speaker 9 (30:49):
How are you.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
I'm doing well? Thank you. Congratulations on the film. It is,
of course, it is so powerful, so moving. I really
am like a huge cheerleader for this film because it
just spoke to me and left me thinking, you know
(31:10):
a lot about it? Yes, And I feel like so
much art today is made to be disposable or made
for you to go see it and then you go
see the sequel and then you buy the merch and
all that, and oftentimes I feel that we lose sight
of art itself. And so this is such a powerful
(31:34):
film for me, and Titus and Andrew all of you
have done such an incredible job with it. What drew
you to making this, I.
Speaker 11 (31:45):
Think probably the same thing that like moved you when
you saw it. I think that's how I felt when
I read the script.
Speaker 6 (31:52):
First.
Speaker 11 (31:52):
First, what drew me to it was Titus Kafar's name
on the front of the script. I was like, uh,
what A huge fan of his work as a painter,
and so I was very excited to see to.
Speaker 9 (32:03):
See him delving into film.
Speaker 11 (32:06):
And then I read the script and I knew from
reading it that it was personal. I knew just because
it was so visceral, you know what I mean, And
so and I just I knew. I didn't I didn't
care if I was a janitor for ten seconds in
this movie. I was like, I want to be a
part of this film. So so I think that's what
drew me.
Speaker 9 (32:25):
And then just the theme of forgiveness.
Speaker 11 (32:26):
I think the real examination of forgiveness this movie is
not like all right, I'm sorry, Okay, I forgive you
and we're over it, you know what I mean, there's
just listen, there's still stuff, even at the end of
the film that maybe feels a little unresolved or feels
because forgiveness is a process, it's a work, and I
love that it it examines that truly and says that
(32:48):
it's a hard fought battle and it's a choice you
kind of have to make every day, and it's and
it's and it's a scary thing, you know.
Speaker 2 (32:55):
Yeah. Yeah. I was talking to Titus about the film.
Him and I have similar you know, I have my
own fatherless story. It's different to his, but similar. And
he and I were talking and he kind of said
this thing that just wowed me, and that was we always,
(33:19):
especially fatherless men, fatherless boys, always seemed to make the
father of the super villain, often for our own lives,
for our whole lives. And what he learned for him
was that he wasn't a villain. He was doing He
was a flawed human that was doing the best he
(33:42):
could he thought he could with what he knew and
what he thought he had.
Speaker 11 (33:47):
Right and to a degree, you know, when you look
at the film, when you look at Larron's character, also
when you think about the crack epidemic, if that was
the particular thing that took your father or your parent
from you, they were also as hard as it is
to admit, they were also kind of a victim as
well too, you know what I mean, like, which is,
you know, of circumstance. I know that everyone makes their
(34:07):
own choices, but you know, that was that took a
lot of people, you know what I'm saying out of
particularly the black and brown community, and so you know,
it's hard, it's I mean, I think it's even harder
to look at that person as you know, sort of
a victim of circumstance and their own choices.
Speaker 6 (34:23):
But yeah, yeah, what.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
Have you learned about forgiveness from the film? You know,
from working on the film, And what does forgiveness mean
to you?
Speaker 9 (34:36):
Well, forgiveness for me.
Speaker 11 (34:37):
So my perspective may be a little different from some
people's because my forgiveness is intrinsic to my faith and
so you know, I forgiveness for me is something that
is from God and that is of God, and that
has been you know, given to me, and that I
am because I love God, I am too extend forgiveness
to everyone.
Speaker 9 (34:57):
You know, what I mean.
Speaker 11 (34:58):
And I think there is misconception that forgiveness means that
everything someone did to you is all of a sudden Okay,
it's okay, they're all hooked there or whatever, which is
not the case.
Speaker 9 (35:09):
It's not saying that it's okay.
Speaker 11 (35:10):
But what it is saying is that I am freeing myself,
you know what I mean, and you of the burden
of carrying this wait anymore, of carrying resentment and carrying
those things. And because you know, unforgiveness can lie to
us and make us feel like it's a refuge when
really it's a prison, you know. And so forgiveness to
me is is that and also you know, but but
(35:33):
this movie did help me to understand that.
Speaker 9 (35:35):
You know, it's not just something you do when you
get over the next day.
Speaker 11 (35:38):
It is a process, and it's a very hard fought battle,
and it is a choice that you have to make
every day even when you don't feel like forgiving. If
you're waiting for the moment that I feel like forgiving,
it may.
Speaker 9 (35:49):
Never come, but you still have to forgive, you know.
Speaker 11 (35:51):
So making the choice to do that, I think is
more important than having the feeling of it, you know.
Speaker 9 (35:56):
What I mean.
Speaker 2 (35:57):
Yeah, I love that and for you, you know, I
did a number of episodes of Oprah's Life Class with
with Oprah on on fatherlessness, uh, fatherless sons and and
she changed changed my life and uh. But one of
the things that I learned from that was that fatherlessness
(36:20):
is an epidemic, particular particularly with boys, and particularly with
black and brown boys. And you know, so as we
as as communities, as a community try to to change that.
The fact is that that oftentimes it is my mom,
(36:42):
my grandmother, my uncles that have helped me to get
through that which I felt this massive loss for in
the film, you are a support system in the way
that you can be have you is that something that
(37:06):
you have drawn from from your own life, that you
have supported a boy or a man or whatever in
there because it's hard enough for women.
Speaker 11 (37:18):
But I was like, yes, I've drawn from real life, right,
particularly black and brow women drawn from real life?
Speaker 9 (37:26):
Or like, yes, have we supported a boy or a man?
Speaker 2 (37:28):
Yes we have exactly, And you know, so I wonder
how much of that from your own life is in her?
Speaker 11 (37:37):
Yeah, it's absolutely, you know. I just think that that
is that, to be honest with you, that was almost
the easiest point to find my way into, you know
what I mean, because into her character because we know
we do know what that's like. And to be honest
with you, as women, we often know what it's like
to put yourself on the back burner for a man's career,
(37:59):
for his desire, for his trauma, for his pain, for
his fabulousness, even as women, for us to put our
own fatherlessness on the back burner for you know what
I mean, their foss. So there's definitely she's absolutely a
support system and that was definitely something I was able
to to a way I was able to enter into
her and I think, but what I love though, what
(38:21):
I love about her character is she supported him. We
are taught you support unequivocally, you support, without question, you support,
You put every all of your dreams on the shelf.
Speaker 9 (38:31):
You don't think about da da da.
Speaker 11 (38:33):
And in a lot of ways we've all done that
and we've been taught that. But in a lot of
ways that can actually be harmful and have an antithetical
effect to effect to loving someone into supporting them. What
I love about Ayesha's character is it's one of the
rare times you see that She supports and loves him
(38:53):
by being there for him, by you know, making adjustments, compromising,
but she also supports him by being uncompromised and by
being unwavering in her dream and her life. She loves
and supports him by loving and supporting herself. And I
think it's very important because she has understood now, because
she comes from a similar background to Terrell. She understands
(39:14):
that she cannot pour from an empty cup. And so
I love the moments in the movie where he reminds
her and she reminds him it is my turn. We
establish this because I think we always adjust to sort
of these tempestuous environments without realizing that sometimes when we
do that, we lose the anchor that keeps us moving forward,
you know what I mean, And so we're floating.
Speaker 9 (39:35):
You don't realize it.
Speaker 11 (39:36):
So she does this amazing thing where she loves him
in that way, but she also loves him by telling
him no. She also loves him by saying, you know,
I'm going to keep you. I'm going to keep us
adhering to the promises we made each other in this marriage.
And I think that's really important. I love that about
her character. And they're dynamic in general.
Speaker 2 (39:56):
Yeah, I love it. I love your work in it.
I can't wait. Like I said, I'm gonna be screaming
from the rooftops for everybody to see exhibiting forgiveness. Thank
you so much, Andrew. It's a joy to talk to you.
Speaker 9 (40:08):
Thank you same same, bless you.
Speaker 2 (40:10):
Thank you. Have a great day to take care Andre Day.
Love her, love her voice, love her, love her art,
and love her role in exhibiting forgiveness. She's just a triumph.
And I can't wait. This is going to win all
the awards. I'm telling you all right, Last, but not least,
(40:32):
we have the heart really of exhibiting forgiveness. Andre Holland
as Terrell and John Earl jelks as Lauren. John Earl
jelks Is has mostly worked in theater. An extremely well
known theatrical actor, he has been nominated for a Tony
(40:56):
Award as Best Actor. He has a very long list
of awards that he's won for his acting. He's also
been in some films, film or two. He was in
a Miracle at St Anna from Spike Lee, season three
of True Detective on HBO, and he has a recurring
(41:18):
role in Showtimes on becoming a god in Central Florida.
I really hope that this is the role. I believe
it is the role that John Earl Jelks wins is
nominated for and wins an Oscar. He deserves it. And then.
Andre Holland is widely known for his performance as Kevin
(41:41):
in Moonlight, the Academy Award winning film. He also played
Matt Miller in American horror story Roanoke, which you know
I loved. He was in Selma, which you know I
was in Selma. He's been on stage, on screen and
in our lives, and he's incredible. I've been using that
word a lot, but it is the word. So here
(42:02):
it is my interview with Andre Holland and John Earl Jelks.
Thank you so much, Andrea and John for joining me.
I really appreciate it. Thank you, Thanks happy.
Speaker 6 (42:13):
To be here.
Speaker 2 (42:14):
Thank you. First of all, congratulations on the film. It
is incredibly powerful. It is so deep and layered and
really stays with you in a way that not many
films today, I don't think. Do What is it that
drew you both to the film, Andre, did you want
(42:38):
to start script?
Speaker 10 (42:40):
Man? The script was outstanding, you know, in the very
first draft I read, I was like, man, this is
special and it only got better from there. I would
say that the chance to work with such brilliant artists
like John Andrew, Andrew, you know, Titus, the cast is
so stacked, you know.
Speaker 6 (42:57):
It was, it was an amazing experience.
Speaker 10 (42:59):
So I would say those two things for me made
it really easy to say yes.
Speaker 2 (43:03):
And how about you, John.
Speaker 12 (43:05):
I totally agree with that. And to be able to
work with such a brilliant artist and Titus, I mean,
it's art work speaks for myself. So I just had
to know, well, I knew from just reading it this
is going to be a pretty special piece of work
because there's so much truth in everything that I've was saying,
(43:27):
you know, in the script. So yeah, that's what Drew
and sew is being able to read it and know
who he was and then work with, like Andre said,
these brilliant actors. I mean, like, what is not to
want to be a part of something like that, you
know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (43:42):
Yeah, I was just speaking with Titus and he was
him and I were discussing how much of himself is
in this story and in this work. I wondered it.
You know, it made me wonder for both of you,
how much of you, how much of Andre, how much
of John or in the these characters.
Speaker 10 (44:03):
I'll say that I think a lot, a lot, you know.
Speaker 6 (44:05):
I feel like when you.
Speaker 10 (44:08):
Approach a role like this, but really any role, you know,
I think you got to offer yourself to it if
you're gonna if you're gonna be honest, you know. I mean,
there's like there's the character on the page, and then
there's the person, the human, the actor, and over the
course of the time the rehearsal process, those two things
kind of come together.
Speaker 6 (44:27):
And so when I.
Speaker 10 (44:28):
When I watched the movie, now you know, yeah, I
understand that I'm playing a character, but also like I
offered a lot of myself to it.
Speaker 6 (44:37):
Is that how you think about it, I do.
Speaker 12 (44:38):
And And to add on to that is that I
believe that I obtually stole a lot. But what I
mean by stole, I inherited another way. That was my grandfather,
father and now me, even if it was to me
that I'm trying to correct from those two, I was
able to do that, and as you said, that's an
(44:59):
actually be playing character. But at the same time I
got a chance to take from some other places, and
I just took strictly from the book my grandfather and
my father.
Speaker 2 (45:09):
That's so powerful. And I love that you say that,
because you know it's Titus and I we're talking it.
We were discussing our you know, my own father lessness,
his fatherlessness, and two different kind of versions of that.
But he said something that was so like an AHA
moment for me where he said, they're not always the
(45:33):
super villains that we've made them out to be. You know,
where for me, for my father who had left when
my mom got pregnant, I had and then chose, you know,
not to be around. I had always made him out
to be this, you know, horrible person, and how can
you do that? And the bottom line is that no
matter what he is as a person, he is still
(45:54):
a person and was dealing with his own issues and
and was doing was living life how he was equipped
to do it, you know what I'm saying. And as
you say that, you know, John, with you there are
in this character, there is people that you know, And
it just struck me about these you know, these super
(46:16):
villains that they are not. They're humans just like us,
no matter what choices they've made. You know, did you
find any healing in in playing Laurn.
Speaker 12 (46:29):
Not only did I find healing, I've got a chance
to find out, well not so much find out. We
got a chance to see if my grandfather or my
father was sable to articulate what Tityus had put inside
of that film, that's.
Speaker 6 (46:47):
What they would have said. Wow, that's what they probably
would have done.
Speaker 12 (46:50):
They would have done, they would have became a better
version of themselves. Well, once again, they wasn't equipped to
do that. They only passed down what they knew, right,
and what they didn't know. Like my father's always tell me,
I don't know what to tell you. So if you
don't know what to tell you, you got to try to
figure it out on your own.
Speaker 2 (47:11):
Yeah. Yeah, And how about for you, Andre, was there
people in your life that you were able to draw
from for this or was this you you know, diving
in as an artist completely?
Speaker 6 (47:25):
Both? Yeah, it was both.
Speaker 10 (47:26):
I mean there are definitely places where I borrow from
the relationship with my dad and with my mom, you know. Yeah,
other places where I had to imagine, like being a
father for instance. I'm not a father, so I had
to you know, make some imaginative leaps to think about
what that might be like. But that's the magic of it,
(47:46):
right You take what you know and you put it
a little bit of what you don't know and mix
it all up together to stew and somehow it like,
you know, you create a character. So I'm glad you
dug it man.
Speaker 2 (47:57):
It really truly is an incredible piece of art and
for you, for both of you, what do you hope
to that somebody takes? Because, like I said, for me,
I just don't think this is kind of one of
those I'm a huge Deadpool and Wolverine fan, you know,
I love those kinds of movies, but it's not something
that you know is created to make you think and
(48:20):
really kind of, you know, this film is truly art
and has stuck with me. What do you hope a
viewer takes when they leave watching it?
Speaker 6 (48:35):
I mean, you know, I think that.
Speaker 10 (48:40):
I hope that people consider what forgiveness means to them
in like a different way. I certainly have reframed my
understanding of what it means to forgive. And if there
are conversations that people need to have with folks while
they have time, then I think that, you know, I
hope the movie inspires them to do that, and also
I hope that people I hope that people run to
(49:01):
see this movie and that they pack the theaters and
continue to pack the theaters because you know, I also
understand what me and when we said they're pulling over
in great movies like a.
Speaker 6 (49:11):
Lot of fun.
Speaker 10 (49:12):
But I think sometimes Hollywood doesn't believe that movies like these, yeah,
can like be successful, you know, and are worth doing
and are worth investing in. So I hope that you know,
your audience and audiences all the world will come and
see the movie and support it so that we can
keep making art like this absolutely and alter that.
Speaker 12 (49:32):
I appreciate what you know you doing, and people like
yourselves are spreading the word because it takes that you know,
you've seen it and you know what it is to
go and tell other people to go sit and you
said it earlier, and hopefully everyone inspire someone else to
maybe tell their own version or their own story something simpler,
because once again, like you said, how it was not
(49:53):
going to get behind movies like that's necessarily yeah, but
if we show that these stories need to be told,
you need to be seen, you never know the next
one and then the next one in the next one,
and so on and so forth, and also Forgiveness may not
be what it looks like to everybody's different.
Speaker 2 (50:14):
I love that. I'm a huge champion for this film.
I can't I'll be screaming it from the rooftops. Exhibiting Forgiveness.
Thank you both so much. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 6 (50:25):
Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 2 (50:26):
Appreciate you man, Thank you. Have a great day. Thanks
Andre Holland and John Earl Jels. Exhibiting Forgiveness. You have
to see it, I'm telling you. The premiere at Sundance
in January and is out in a limited theatrical run
beginning today October eighteenth. Well, I guess it depends on
(50:50):
when you're listening to it, but either way, it's out
in a limited theatrical run. You need to do yourself
a favor and see this film. It is going to
be nominated for everything, and it deserves it because it's really,
really that good. I'm telling you. I cried, I laughed,
I smiled, I felt, I felt, I felt. Do yourself
(51:12):
a favor. See Exhibiting Forgiveness right now and watch Hysteria.
I want to know what you think about both of them.
Hit me up on socials. You know where to find
me pop Culture Weekly or at KMAC Music or Kyle McMahon,
whatever it is, find me. Let me know. If you're
listening to the show on the iHeartRadio app, you can
use the talkback button and it sends me your voice
(51:34):
message right to my email box and you might just
be featured on the show. All right, I will see
you next week. I love you, we are.
Speaker 3 (51:44):
Thank you for listening to pop Culture Weekly. Here all
the latest at popcultureweekly dot com.
Speaker 7 (51:54):
Hasteri Sti Sterffy Oh
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