The Insane Tickled Documentary; Supacell Creator Rapman

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
In this episode of pop Culture Weekly, I talk with Rapman,
the genius behind Netflix's number one show supercel end Amanda
Bias joins me again as we talk this crazy documentary
that we watched called Tickled.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
Let's go. Welcome to pop Culture Weekly with Kyle McMahon
from iHeartRadio, your pop culture news, views, reviews and celebrity
interviews on all the movies, TV, music, and pop culture
u Crabe Weekly. Here's Kyle McMahon.

Speaker 1 (00:32):
Nan Na, Hello, Welcome to pop Culture Weekly with Kyle McMahon.
I of course am Kyle McMahon, and I thank you
so much for once again joining me for another episode
of pop Culture Weekly on the rotating panel of guests hosts.
It didn't rotate very far this week because Amanda Bias's bag.

Speaker 2 (00:57):
Hi, Kyle, Hey, So how are you doing?

Speaker 3 (01:00):
I'm good?

Speaker 2 (01:00):
How are you good? How was your first episode?

Speaker 3 (01:03):
It was good?

Speaker 2 (01:04):
Yeah, it was great, Jeff fun, Yeah good.

Speaker 1 (01:07):
I loved having you and you're gonna come on a
lot more often, so that's great. In fact, here we
are a week later. Right now, let's get in. There's
so much good stuff that we got to get into.
Let's get into it right now. We're gonna start off
with what's out this week? So what's out this week?

(01:29):
I'm an idiot? And last week we talked all about Twisters.
We did, and it did not come out last week.
It comes out this week.

Speaker 3 (01:36):
We're ahead of the game, so I think about it
that way. We were being proactive exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:42):
That is very true. It's horrible that, you know, I
have this pop culture show and don't know when things
come out. So, but Twisters is out this week?

Speaker 3 (01:52):
Is it really?

Speaker 2 (01:56):
Which are you going to see it this weekend or
now you're going to see Long Legs? Right?

Speaker 3 (01:59):
I do want I see Long Legs this weekend. But
I think that I can do a double trip to
the movie, okay Twisters, because I feel like Twisters is
nostalgic for me. Yeah, so I want to see what
is new?

Speaker 1 (02:10):
Yeah this time and better effects and like, yeah, it's awesome.
So yes, I'm probably gonna be seeing that this week
and as well, and uh, Twisters the soundtrack is out too.

Speaker 2 (02:24):
It is it is?

Speaker 3 (02:25):
I listened to Luke Combe's his single yeah Ain't No
Love in Oklahoma? Yes, I listened to that on the
way here banger.

Speaker 2 (02:33):
It really is?

Speaker 1 (02:34):
I you and I were talking about this before the show.
We've never been giant country fans, never, but I'm starting
it's starting to rub off on me.

Speaker 3 (02:45):
I don't know what's going on. I feel like ever
since I started working here and listening to it kind
of on repeat, it's just doing something to me. Yeah,
I didn't do before, And I'm saying to myself, this
actually isn't that bad. Why was I such a hater?

Speaker 1 (03:01):
Yeah, I'm the same way. I mean, there's some awesome
so I love Billy Zimmerman. I love Billy zimmer Yeah,
his voice is so good, his music's great. He's on
there with Heller high Water, Kane Brown, who I love.
Tyler Childers has this song called song while You're Away
on the soundtrack that's so good. Benson Boone I love

(03:21):
him and he's not even country, but I'm glad that
he's on there.

Speaker 2 (03:24):
Then there's this song called Boots Don't with Shanaia Twain
and Breeland. It is so good.

Speaker 1 (03:30):
It reminds me of a Shannaia Twain song. And who
doesn't love Shania Twain. She's looking at me like me,
I don't know who that is?

Speaker 2 (03:41):
What?

Speaker 3 (03:41):
I'm sorry?

Speaker 2 (03:42):
I got your like seven you exaggerate.

Speaker 3 (03:45):
I'm six.

Speaker 1 (03:48):
Shanaya is uh hold on and let's go girls, and
I'm going tonight. I'm feeling no all right, Uh okay,
you're still.

Speaker 2 (04:04):
The one around too, the one that I be long.

Speaker 4 (04:09):
You know know that song?

Speaker 2 (04:10):
No, that don't impress me much. Oh oh oh, so
you got the brains, but have you got no man?
I feel lack a woman nearer.

Speaker 3 (04:26):
It feels familiar.

Speaker 2 (04:28):
Oh my god.

Speaker 1 (04:30):
Okay, well her songs were out in like two thousand.

Speaker 2 (04:34):
You weren't even born.

Speaker 3 (04:35):
I was born. I was born in the year two thousand.

Speaker 2 (04:38):
Oh.

Speaker 1 (04:40):
I cannot believe you've never this is a national crime,
even though she's Canadian.

Speaker 2 (04:49):
You have to know the song.

Speaker 3 (04:51):
Oh I know that song?

Speaker 2 (04:52):
Yeah, so that's man, I feel like a woman.

Speaker 3 (04:54):
Yeah, I've heard that song before. It was like in
a lot of two thousands movies back then.

Speaker 2 (04:58):
Yeah. Absolutely.

Speaker 1 (05:00):
Anyway, so Shanai, it sounds like a Shanaia got my
add the song on the soundtrack of Twisters, Yeah, called
boots Don't sounds like a Shania Twain song. Okay, which
I guess makes sense because.

Speaker 3 (05:15):
She's on it.

Speaker 1 (05:16):
That was dumb, but anyway, uh yeah, so that's what's
out this week?

Speaker 2 (05:23):
Not a lot.

Speaker 1 (05:23):
Oh, there's a movie called Oddity Too that's out this week.
Which did you see the trailer for that?

Speaker 2 (05:28):
No, of course not.

Speaker 3 (05:29):
You know what, I'm gonna leave. I feel attacked all
the time.

Speaker 1 (05:34):
It is like something with the occult and a psychic
and a murder and all that kind of thing. So
it's like right up my alley. So I want to
see that too. That's it for what's out this week.

Speaker 3 (05:44):
That's it.

Speaker 1 (05:44):
Yeah, I mean there's some stuff on streaming. Uh, Simon
Simone Biles.

Speaker 3 (05:49):
Oh, I know her, I do know her.

Speaker 1 (05:51):
Yeah, so she there's a documentary about her on called
Simone Biles Rising on Netflix. Oh, Lady in the Lake
Season one, which looks really good. That's on Apple TV.
Plus Cobra kai season six on Netflix, which I do know.

Speaker 3 (06:10):
Cobra kaik I do know that, and you've seen I've
never seen it, but I know it's I've seen I will.

Speaker 1 (06:16):
Have you seen the Karate Kid movies, which is what
it's based, which it's like a sequel, now, okay.

Speaker 3 (06:22):
I'm kidding. I do I have seen those movies?

Speaker 1 (06:24):
Okay, good, Yeah, Cobra Kaie season six drops but anyway,
So that's what's out this week.

Speaker 2 (06:29):
Kind of shure, Yeah, all right.

Speaker 1 (06:32):
Next up is what we consumed this week, which most
of what I'm gonna say is gonna be saved for
the feature presentation because the big the thing that has
rocked my world that I consume this week is the
documentary Tickled and Then, which I immediately texted you and

(06:53):
was like, I need to talk about this. We need
to do a whole episode on it. You need to
watch this, and you watch it that day, right, yeah, yeah,
I put it on.

Speaker 2 (07:01):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (07:02):
So and now you're like me so in that regard.
So we're gonna talk about that and what we consume
this week. But I did see Long Legs.

Speaker 2 (07:11):
Which we talked about last week, which was really really great.

Speaker 3 (07:14):
Oh my god, that's making me excited for when I
see it.

Speaker 1 (07:16):
Yeah, it's so good. And I did not realize until
afterwards that Nicholas Cage is in it.

Speaker 3 (07:21):
Oh, he's in it.

Speaker 2 (07:22):
Yeah, I didn't know that as like the Long Villains.

Speaker 1 (07:27):
Yeah, oh, I had no idea that it was him.
And then I was on Letterbox and somebody was like,
Nicholas Cage is amazing, and I'm like, what he wasn't
in that. And then I looked and him, like what.

Speaker 3 (07:38):
Wait, so you don't see him in the film.

Speaker 2 (07:40):
No, he's wearing makeup.

Speaker 3 (07:42):
Oh so you can't recognize him.

Speaker 2 (07:43):
I did not recognize him at all.

Speaker 3 (07:45):
Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (07:45):
Yeah, okay, and like it's Nicholas Cage. Of course I
know who it is.

Speaker 3 (07:49):
I did by the voice, like I know that voice.

Speaker 2 (07:52):
Yeah, and it's not even Yeah, it's amazing. I loved
it so much. Wow.

Speaker 1 (07:56):
Yeah, I gave it a great obviously log on letterbox.
But what did you consume this week? Besides tickled?

Speaker 3 (08:04):
I watched Mamaya Oh yeah, the first one, via recommendation
by my friend. It was my first time watching it,
and I loved it. Okay, it was pretty nice.

Speaker 2 (08:16):
Did you like the music?

Speaker 3 (08:17):
Yeah, it was music was good.

Speaker 2 (08:19):
Yeah, I so, I like Abbas music.

Speaker 1 (08:22):
It was like a big disco or a big band
that did a lot of disco in I guess, like
the seventies and eighties and sixties.

Speaker 2 (08:29):
I don't know, but I liked them from my mom.

Speaker 1 (08:31):
But it's just not my like wedding and romance.

Speaker 3 (08:36):
And all, so normally that wouldn't be my thing either.
I'm not big on Romance. First of all, I went
in not knowing anything about it. Okay, I didn't even
I didn't watch no trailer, I didn't read no blurb
about it. My friend was just like, watch this movie,
and I said, Okay, it's a musical. That's all I knew.
I didn't even know it was a Jukeboppies musical, so

(08:56):
I was like, okay, And I don't know. I kind
of liked it. I mean, it wasn't wow to yeah,
but it was something that I feel like I could
put on in the background. It's a summer movie, good vibes,
good feels, and I really did enjoy watching it, Okay,
But I don't know if I would put it on regularly.

Speaker 2 (09:15):
Right right, you know, I feel like like to actively watch.

Speaker 3 (09:18):
Yeah, I think this is how it is. I wouldn't
put it on, but if it was on, I wouldn't
turn it off. Okay, That's how it is for me.

Speaker 2 (09:26):
All right, you know? All right?

Speaker 3 (09:28):
So that was good.

Speaker 2 (09:28):
What about any of your reality shows?

Speaker 3 (09:31):
Oh, I watched d Fiance as always, I'm watching I'm
kind of rewatching before the ninety days, so it's just
a lot of drama that I live off of. Yeah,
and I just I love it so much.

Speaker 1 (09:45):
And what No, it's just funny that you're like, it's
just a lot of drama that I live off of.

Speaker 3 (09:51):
I live off of this stuff. I'm not kidding. I
follow these people on Instagram, like, I watched videos on
YouTube about them, and so I I can read the
comments because I want to know what people are thinking
during these scenes, these crazy scenes, and I'm like, Okay,
I need to know. I run to YouTube and I
type in the exact scene that I'm watching, like at
the moment, and I just read people's comments. I'm thinking

(10:14):
to myself, I cannot be the only one that thinks
that this is crazy, and I want to know what
people are saying about it. So I watched that, and
then I obviously watched House of the Dragon every single
Sunday at nine, I'm tuned in, I'm sat and that
was amazing as always, Yeah, episode I don't know, I

(10:37):
think five. I don't really keep track whenever, whenever it
comes down. And then I rewatched Twister, and yeah, in
honor of Twister is coming out this week, and that
took me back. That took me back to childhood days.
I didn't realize how terrible, not terrible, but how liked

(10:59):
dated it was. I don't want to say terrible. Dated,
it was just very dated. And as a kid, I'm
watching it and I'm like, Okay, this is really good,
and then as an adult you watch it and you're like,
was it.

Speaker 2 (11:13):
Yeah, but it was.

Speaker 3 (11:14):
The plot was still there. I love I love that storyline.
It's so good.

Speaker 1 (11:18):
Yeah, I love that movie. I'll probably do the same thing.
She said, Yeah, you know, watch it before I go
see Twisters this weekend. Did you ever watch my I
Love A Mama's Boy.

Speaker 3 (11:30):
I've seen it on Discovery, Yeah, but I haven't watched it.
Oh my god, don't tell me.

Speaker 2 (11:36):
It is so good.

Speaker 3 (11:38):
God, if I start a new series in reality TV,
I am You're not going to see me for a
good couple weeks. Like, oh my god. You gotta be
careful with reality TV and me because that is my
favorite genre.

Speaker 2 (11:49):
It is so I don't watch a lot of TV.

Speaker 1 (11:53):
I watch more movies, or I would say, like probably
seventy percent movies thirty percent, and.

Speaker 3 (11:58):
I feel like I'm thirty percent movie, so many percent.

Speaker 2 (12:01):
Well, I Love A Mama's Boy.

Speaker 1 (12:04):
I was glued to Discovery plus God, yeah, it is dramatic.

Speaker 2 (12:11):
Oh my god. Dramatic isn't even the word.

Speaker 3 (12:14):
Oh my god, I'm seated.

Speaker 2 (12:15):
Yeah too.

Speaker 1 (12:16):
It is so good and I can't wait till you
watch it so we can talk about it, Oh my god.
And I can relate to some of it and some
of it. I'm like, some of them, the girls, the
fiances or whatever. The girlfriends are insane, you know, some
of them the moms are insane. Yeah, some of them.
It's like, you guys don't know what a healthy relationship is,
so like, just shut up. The other ones, I'm like, oh, mom,

(12:39):
that's like a little bit, you know, a little bit much.
And I'm a mama's boy, not like that. I mean,
some of these are really extreme. Clarification, Yeah, yeah, but
some of these are very extreme. However, some of them,
I'm like, no, I would totally ask my mom's opinion
on who I'm going to marry, or you know what
I mean, or like, the fiance may be.

Speaker 2 (12:57):
Like, what do you mean your mom doesn't like me? Bah? Well,
it's crazy. You gotta watch it. It's so good. I can't
wait till you watch it.

Speaker 3 (13:05):
In Ninety Day Fiance, there are a couple of in
laws that. I just immediately when they come on, I
just want to turn it off.

Speaker 2 (13:13):
Who was the girl?

Speaker 3 (13:15):
Tell me I probably know.

Speaker 2 (13:17):
Is her name Nicole? Nicole Okay, a big, big blonde girl.

Speaker 3 (13:22):
Nicole and on, Yes, from Morocco.

Speaker 2 (13:25):
Yes.

Speaker 3 (13:26):
And she had a had like a three year old. Yes, Yes,
I know who you're talking about.

Speaker 2 (13:29):
I was so angry she had her child calling him daddy.

Speaker 1 (13:34):
Yea.

Speaker 2 (13:35):
Within like a month, what was.

Speaker 3 (13:36):
Her name, May? Her name was May, I think.

Speaker 2 (13:38):
Was the baby David child and like crazy, she is insane.

Speaker 3 (13:43):
She took her to Morocco. I couldn't believe it. Yeah,
it was an insane story. That was. That's one of
the most insane storylines. Because they went on ninety Day Fiance.
They they went on to the next season after when
they debuted. I don't know if they were on happily
ever after her. I don't think so, but I could
be wrong because it's it's hard to keep up. Yeah,

(14:05):
but but yeah, and she would get mad at him
for not wanting to like hold her hand out in public,
and he would, you know, explain to her culture, Yeah,
you know, we don't do that, we don't do that.
She would blow off, Yes, but he would also say
that she was fat yeah, and unhealthy, yeah, and he
would just degrade her.

Speaker 2 (14:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (14:25):
I think it was too much of a cultural thing.

Speaker 2 (14:27):
Yeah, and they even taking the cultural thing out. She's
absolutely psycho. Yeah, like.

Speaker 1 (14:36):
None of any of what you showed was a healthy
relationship nothing, you know. And if if that, if I
was that child's son or I'm sorry, that child's father,
would I would take him to court, take her to court,
and I'd be like, I would get a court order
that she is not allowed to introduce my child to

(14:57):
her boyfriend or whatever until whatever a year or whatever,
because you're not gonna mess up my child's head because
you're nuts, you know what I mean. Haven't calling him
daddy that you He hadn't even ever met her. It
was through FaceTime or whatever, Like her mom.

Speaker 3 (15:13):
Was trying to talk sense to her, and she would
always say no, no, I love A loves me. We're
gonna clearly didn't work out. Yeah, but oh my god,
I know that was just terrible.

Speaker 2 (15:24):
Yeah, it really was.

Speaker 1 (15:26):
It made me so angry that I literally I think
I went to look for on Instagram and like I
was gonna like just blast her.

Speaker 3 (15:35):
I follow hersta she's like a she like does twitch
like twitch streams. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (15:42):
Yeah, I was literally.

Speaker 1 (15:43):
Going to blast her, and then I'm like, wait a second,
this was like four years ago, and watching it's.

Speaker 3 (15:50):
Still relevant kind of. I mean I think that if
it's on the streaming service, it's still relevant.

Speaker 2 (15:57):
True, that's very true.

Speaker 3 (15:58):
But what were gonna say, I'm curious tour.

Speaker 1 (16:01):
Yeah, oh, I was gonna be like, you're legitimately an
insane person and a horrible parent.

Speaker 2 (16:07):
You should lose custody of your child.

Speaker 1 (16:10):
That that child would literally be better growing up by
a pack of wolves in the forestsh than you, because
you are damaging that child with your disgusting selfishness.

Speaker 2 (16:24):
Anyway, that's all nic that.

Speaker 3 (16:27):
Just a little nice no, little nice comment. No like
people do not. Allot of ninety funds fans do not
like her. They don't. Yeah, I don't know if she's
one of the most hated though. There's a lot of psychos.

Speaker 2 (16:39):
In there are.

Speaker 1 (16:40):
And here's the other thing, nobody knows somebody well enough
in ninety days. I had red box movies out from
the freaking red box longer than these people have known
each other. And they're getting married, like.

Speaker 3 (16:54):
Some of them make it though there was. There's one
couple named David and Nanny. They met and they met
for like and he took a cruise to the dr
where she was from. I think they hung out for
two days and they got married. They got the ninety
day visa, she came over. He had a son, and
to this day, I believe that they're still together.

Speaker 5 (17:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (17:15):
I mean, and I'm not saying it never works. I
feel like.

Speaker 3 (17:17):
It's like rare, Like do you have some really like
not even like point zero zero point five percent? Yeah,
it is extremely rare, but it does happen.

Speaker 2 (17:27):
Yeah, And I feel like that's more. I don't know
what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (17:30):
There's a lot of there's a lot of names in
ninety Day. Yeah, so it's like and I know all
of them.

Speaker 1 (17:35):
I was putting it on when I was like when
i'd be like cleaning my house or.

Speaker 2 (17:39):
Like folding laundry or something.

Speaker 1 (17:41):
Yeah, so I'd be like, here's something mindless, I don't
have to watch, But then I would get sucked in.

Speaker 3 (17:45):
It's addicting, and then there's any day happily ever after
ninety Day. The other way where they go to the countries,
which is my favorite. It's my favorite.

Speaker 2 (17:52):
Okay, off to watch that.

Speaker 3 (17:53):
One ninety day. The other way, the Americans go to
the countries. One woman goes to the India, one goes
to the South care Ha, one goes to Ethiopia. In
these culture shocks, It's so it's so interesting to watch
for me because I'm watching it as you know, like
the American like, oh my god, what would I do
in a situation? What would I do if I had

(18:15):
to go to India and see this or what? You know,
would I do that? Or would I like what? So
I think that their reactions, not all of the time,
is how I react. I think that sometimes they're just
they're not doing research. They're not doing research in the country,
and it's like, I mean, if you would have done research,
you would have known that this is what to expect.

(18:35):
So for me, I would just do extra research and
like just try to understand. But I feel like these
people don't.

Speaker 1 (18:42):
Well, I feel like you're also smart enough to know
that you wouldn't move to a country for somebody you
barely know.

Speaker 2 (18:49):
Yeah you know what I mean? Yeah, Like that's.

Speaker 3 (18:52):
Just I think I gotta be talking to you for
like three years and we have had to have met
a couple of times to even get to that situation, right.

Speaker 2 (19:01):
Like that's insane, Like it's it's nuts.

Speaker 3 (19:05):
But a lot of them do do it because the
woman is pregnant, right, which is worse in my opinion,
because why are you taking your One of them was
pregnant or had a baby. And she went to Ethiopia,
and I'm like, Ethiopia of all places, and you're an American.
And her father was a doctor and her mom was
a nurse, and she wanted to have the baby in Ethiopia.

(19:26):
I don't remember if she did, but it's just it's
just crazy stuff. And she went to go to the
to the birthing facility and she saw the conditions and
they were not good in comparison to America, and it
was just crazy.

Speaker 2 (19:43):
Yeah, I I don't get it.

Speaker 1 (19:44):
I feel like so many of those people are like
need very intensive therapy because.

Speaker 3 (19:51):
But not but not too much, because I still want my.

Speaker 2 (19:53):
Drama, drama.

Speaker 1 (19:57):
Don't get too fits that you're you're right, all right,
let's uh, we're gonna take a quick break.

Speaker 3 (20:04):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (20:04):
When we come back, we're gonna do the interview that
I did with Ratman all about supercel on Netflix. We'll
be back in sixty all right, thanks for hanging out
with us. Thanks for rocking it through the commercial break
with our sponsors that keep this show going. So, Amanda,

(20:25):
I talked with Ratman, who is the genius, creator, writer, director,
show runner of Supercel. Have you seen this? No, so
it is blown up. It came out last week. I
believe this is blown up on Netflix and it's number
one on Netflix like around the world. Oh wow, yeah,

(20:46):
and it is really good. So the log line is
when five ordinary South Londoners discovered that they have ordinary powers,
it's down to one man to bring them together to
save the woman he loves.

Speaker 4 (20:58):
It is.

Speaker 3 (20:59):
Oh, it's a show.

Speaker 2 (21:00):
It's a show, yep it is what eight eight episodes.

Speaker 1 (21:05):
I believe each episode takes the point of view of
one of the characters.

Speaker 3 (21:11):
Oh so it's like Bridgerton but with seasons.

Speaker 2 (21:15):
I've never seen that.

Speaker 3 (21:16):
Oh never one.

Speaker 2 (21:18):
My mom used to watch that.

Speaker 3 (21:20):
I don't watch that, So this is like anyway.

Speaker 1 (21:24):
Yeah, so so I don't know, but yeah, so it's
cool that each episode, so it's actually.

Speaker 2 (21:29):
Six episodes it seems for season one.

Speaker 1 (21:31):
But each episode is a different point of view from
one of the characters.

Speaker 3 (21:35):
That's interesting.

Speaker 2 (21:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (21:37):
So anyway, let's jump right into my interview with Ratman.

Speaker 2 (21:44):
How are you man? Great to talk to you.

Speaker 6 (21:46):
Yeah, yeah, well, thank you for giving me your time, bro, Yeah,
I'm goodem plain awesome.

Speaker 1 (21:51):
So, first of all, congratulations on super Sol. It is
an incredible and its success is well deserved. I want
to go back, if you don't mind, first, and then come.

Speaker 2 (22:02):
Back up to Supercell.

Speaker 1 (22:04):
You started in music and you were doing videos and
that sort of thing. Why was it so important for
you to have this visual element with your music.

Speaker 4 (22:16):
I think it's just my love of visual storyteller.

Speaker 6 (22:19):
Man, I'm a massive storyteller, a story just a storyteller
fan and genuine life. Story is always like my biggest thing.
But I never saw the videos, the music videos to
the songs I wanted to hear, like give me the Loop,
give me the Loot. I would die for that video
from Biggie You never came Nah was dying love jay

(22:39):
Z a week ago. All of the like all of
the stories, videos and songs I love, they've had visuals.

Speaker 4 (22:45):
So I was kind of doing it for other people
like me who never got the videos that they wanted.

Speaker 1 (22:50):
One Okay, I love that and from that you you you.

Speaker 2 (22:54):
Really became interested, you know, or really focused.

Speaker 1 (22:59):
I should say it is on on storytelling through a
visual element.

Speaker 2 (23:03):
Is that accurate?

Speaker 4 (23:05):
Yeah?

Speaker 6 (23:06):
Yeah, like that kind of it kind of started realizing
that's what came easiest to me, and that's that got
the most reception. Because I was starting to release regular
songs and they were doing well and they took me.
They were harder for me to write. But when I
went into my story bag, it's like it was easier.
The reception came and I saw it just became my

(23:28):
goal to and I was like, and I was kept
at it.

Speaker 1 (23:31):
And who were some of your influences back then, both
visually and musically musically?

Speaker 6 (23:38):
It was definitely two Pat Biggie Nas jay Z. That's
that's the short story. Film wise, I loved I loved
John Singer and I the Shoes Brothers.

Speaker 4 (23:50):
Those are the main two our store.

Speaker 6 (23:51):
But those are the like when I watched Minister Siety
and Boys and with those days when I was younger.

Speaker 4 (23:56):
Those are like run that kind of like London.

Speaker 6 (23:58):
Like our part of London, and before the two movies,
I never saw anything like the poverty area part of
London that I lived on screen, so all the big
John Singleton fan and and the Shues brothers.

Speaker 1 (24:11):
And so then you you caught the attention of jay
Z of all people.

Speaker 6 (24:17):
Yeah, that's that was crazy. That was literally that came
up as one of the these musical narrated shoots I
was doing. It just went viral in the UK, and
then it got to a person in the UK who's
who was very close to jay Z, and jay Z
quite sent to him and he was excited bout it.

Speaker 4 (24:35):
And then next and I know I was meeting him.

Speaker 1 (24:38):
So yeah, and you signed with rock Nation, Yeah, which
is you know, incredible and uh and then you know
you started to continued, I should say, to do projects
which led us leads us to super Cell?

Speaker 2 (24:52):
What what?

Speaker 1 (24:54):
Why did you want to tell the story in Super Cell?

Speaker 4 (25:01):
I think the.

Speaker 6 (25:03):
Whole superheroes, superpower genres just in a general that I've
always loved, but I've never really seen representation in it
outside of Black Panther or Black Lading, basically outside of
Marvel in DC. It was a genre that I don't
feel like efning minorities in general had a lot of.

Speaker 4 (25:23):
Presencing. And also on top of that, I never.

Speaker 6 (25:26):
Believed the whole Get Powers, Get Cape, gets fandex. I
never understood that because I wouldn't think to do that,
and if I asked five of my friends, that wouldn't
be there first of all. So I was like, imagine
people from where we are from founding tool, like us
get powers, what would re really do? And that would
just be like the big conversation of fun and games.
I was like, you know, this needs to be a show.

(25:47):
And I suppose that's that's where it came from. You're
just the curiosity of normal people getting these powers, normal
people seeing the powers, and just seeing how they react
to it.

Speaker 1 (25:55):
It's interesting that you say that because my godson, Aiden
is black and white, and I took him to see
Across the or Smiles Mouse, the Spider Verse movie, and
you know, he was so hyped to see it, and
and I didn't get it because of my ignorance. And

(26:16):
I'm like, you know, I love I think he's awesome too,
but like, why are you so.

Speaker 2 (26:21):
You know, like obsessed?

Speaker 1 (26:22):
And he was like, I've never seen a superhero that
looked like me. And I was like, oh my god,
you know, I mean that is like, holy crap.

Speaker 2 (26:33):
You know, in my own ignorance.

Speaker 1 (26:35):
I don't see that, and he he opened my eyes
to that, you know, and it made me realize how
powerful representation is and how representation matters. Because there's my
little godson who was like that guy looks like me,
you know, because he has the he has his own
little fro and and he identifies with him.

Speaker 2 (27:00):
And that's so.

Speaker 1 (27:01):
Important, you know, It's so important in media.

Speaker 2 (27:06):
And so I love that for you. You know, you
were like, well, I.

Speaker 1 (27:09):
Don't see what I don't see what I want to
see on screen that represents me.

Speaker 2 (27:14):
So I'm going to make it.

Speaker 6 (27:16):
That's this year. I made this show. I made the
show that I wanted to watch. That's literally I've done that.
Everything in there is my taste first and hoping that
everybody else lapsing.

Speaker 4 (27:25):
But that's literally the show I wanted to see on TV.

Speaker 2 (27:28):
And So where did this go for you?

Speaker 1 (27:31):
From kind of you know, idea in your head to Okay, yeah,
this is going to be a project. This is going
to be, you know, my next thing that I'm putting
one hundred and ten percent into.

Speaker 6 (27:43):
It was kind of like I've just someone asked me
about the idea before I knew I had the idea
someone does say asked me and.

Speaker 4 (27:49):
Said, well, are you going to do next?

Speaker 6 (27:51):
This is when I was promoting my last project, and
then the superstar idea that wasn't really it wasn't called
super soll done, it was just normal people with powers
came into my head.

Speaker 4 (27:59):
And I spoke out loud. But then I went on
a meeting with Netflix and they.

Speaker 6 (28:03):
Asked me, what have you got? What do you want
to do next? And I'm just stating. They're eating the
free food that they brought me, and I came to
my idea and I said, okay, anything else and I
said no, I'm not really must have something. I was like, oh,
I didn't know. It's what it told me. I suppose
a general, So I said, hey, what is algrad there?
Normal people like me with powers, no fan exlowcaps And

(28:24):
they went quiet while I'm eating my food, and I
looked up and it looked that looked like it excited
them the way it excited my group of friends. And
I was like, you know what, this is something I
should work on. So in the lockdown. During the lockdown,
I just really got to work on it. I just
went to work in it and just just put it
all together and then send it to Netflix and they

(28:45):
wanted to make it.

Speaker 2 (28:46):
I love that. And how did you decide?

Speaker 1 (28:49):
Because I imagine it's got to be you know, if
you get to create this universe.

Speaker 2 (28:53):
Of powers, and obviously there's there's.

Speaker 1 (28:55):
So many, you know, unlimited stories that you could tell
and unlimited powers that you could you know, use, how
did you kind of narrow it down to these particular
people and and those particular powers.

Speaker 6 (29:13):
The people came first, and because I say it in
a very specific part of London. I know, the London
that the world and I was usually his key front
kid is very you know, very different to the South London.
South London is probably the most get old, poverty driven
part of London. And in London, those five characters are
based there representation not everybody, but a wild range of

(29:35):
different people in London. A delivery guy who you know
is out every day, the street kid who's still doing
the gang staff for a dad who's trying to get
his reformity back on trap by, you know, trying to
get his future aig so you can see his child.
Just basically, all these five people different parts of London.
I wanted to show different parts of South London specifically.

Speaker 4 (29:56):
So once I got them done, the.

Speaker 6 (29:58):
Type of characters that apple were fine and I could
be late to I then just started thinking, okay, what
powers would these people have? And it didn't match the
powers with the personality because I feel that personality gets
done more and over the development stage. So when I realized,
for example, our lead character Michael would have to save
his woman by finding these groups of people, I said,

(30:19):
if this guy hasn't got some sort of teleportation, we're
gonna have a lot of things where he's driving. There's
gonna be a lot of things with this guy driving
to people. So I said, you know what, let's give
him something swift where you can get.

Speaker 4 (30:29):
There and get this.

Speaker 6 (30:30):
We don't have to spend the story explaining how did
he get there so far, because I don't like it
when I see TV shows and the time jump for
one minute they're there, then all of a sudden they're there.

Speaker 4 (30:38):
So we've done that.

Speaker 6 (30:39):
And then staying with the other character, our father who's
trying to see some hasn't got any money, get super strength.

Speaker 4 (30:46):
What does that do for him?

Speaker 6 (30:47):
Absolutely nothing, unless you're going to do the whole criminal
activity thing that got you in.

Speaker 4 (30:50):
This position in the first place.

Speaker 6 (30:52):
So basically the quite short and more put, the powers
that would make it the most the biggest obstacle or
the biggest you know, Drey and what would make the
story more entertaining. But it turns things that FREDI s clean.
The characters adapted the powers so well the cost it
feels like it matches their personality.

Speaker 4 (31:09):
But it wasn't my intention.

Speaker 2 (31:11):
Okay, I love that.

Speaker 1 (31:13):
And uh and for Supercell, you know, it is a
unabashedly black which I think is incredible in the fact
that I'm trying to be uh spoiler free, but particularly
with how they have their powers, you know. And uh,

(31:36):
and I think that that is extremely smart. How you
worked that, uh, work that into it? Did you as
you're doing it? You know, as you're writing and developing
the series? Uh, did you do those little I don't
want to say easter eggs, but those little kind of

(31:56):
things knowing that it was kind of a nod to
that or was it kind of like just kind of
happened as you were, you know, developing and writing.

Speaker 4 (32:08):
Now, when I.

Speaker 6 (32:09):
Decided I was going to do a superhero show, and
I always like to know where the powers come from.
When I watched superhero shows and the powers there's no
explanations of powers.

Speaker 4 (32:17):
I always kind of get married, like my favorite one
of my.

Speaker 6 (32:20):
Favorite show is Heroes, And to this day we know
where the empowers came from.

Speaker 4 (32:24):
They were just powers, you know.

Speaker 6 (32:26):
And I still love the show, But I still I
would love someone to give me that question. So when
I was thinking I knew I was going to do
an all black cars show, that was always going to
be the case, I was just like, Okay, what can
be their power? And you know, obviously we're reference reference
into simple cell right now.

Speaker 4 (32:44):
It just it just makes so much sense. Man. It's
a disease that predominantly.

Speaker 6 (32:49):
Hurts darker skin, you know, and if and I never
understood that because skin color is just complexion.

Speaker 4 (32:54):
Man it's not. It doesn't.

Speaker 6 (32:56):
I don't understand why there is a disease that predominantly
brings the darker skinned community done. So I think, you
know what, if something can make us weak, let's do
something to strengthen us, something to turn it on his
head and make people living with it full seen. And
on the top of that, let's raise awareness. Because you
can walk into a room with ten people and ask
what do you know about who you put your hand up,

(33:17):
if you know how to sickle cell, if you have
more than three hands up, you're in a really good room.

Speaker 4 (33:21):
Because no one really knows about it.

Speaker 6 (33:22):
So if you know, it's raised a lot of awareness
and it's had a lot of people living with it
full stein and feel heard. And I'm really happy about that.

Speaker 2 (33:31):
And you should be. It's an incredible thing for you.

Speaker 1 (33:35):
So currently it's number one on Netflix, which has got
to be insane, and it's well deserved.

Speaker 2 (33:43):
What did you do when you got that news?

Speaker 4 (33:46):
It was crazy because I used to watch the trades
I've been watching. I'll always read the trades. I'll be
the trades every day.

Speaker 6 (33:52):
And I always used to see the list of top
ten on Netflix, and I always pull that list was
just the American list of the US, but it was
it was okay, you could be number two in America,
but number one in eighty five other countries, and they
talented like that.

Speaker 4 (34:07):
So I remember calling Netflix, are we number one in America? Economics?

Speaker 7 (34:10):
I know we're number two, number one, yet number one
number one? Still, like wraps, it doesn't matter if you're
number one in one territory. Netfltak said, yes, US is
the biggest territory, but it's about where you are globally,
and I was like, okay. So then when I got
the call, I got the call to say, look, we
think you're going to be global number one this week,
and that to me is crazy because Netflix is in

(34:31):
every home. So if you're number one globally, the math
eyes I've seen your work as a creator, that's just
like it was just it was such a win man
our text, all the cars and we all kind of just.

Speaker 4 (34:43):
Celebrated with emojis and happiness.

Speaker 6 (34:46):
Because you have to understand that we were a small
show compared to all the big shows.

Speaker 4 (34:50):
We're not and we're a brand new show.

Speaker 6 (34:52):
And any one in the TV will tell you launching
a brand new IP is very hard, especially if you
haven't got non talent in not that it's hard. So
the fact that we went with little promotion and became
number one just not a word of mouth.

Speaker 4 (35:06):
It was really nice one really nice to them.

Speaker 1 (35:09):
And it's and it's a testament to your work and
the work of you know, the entire casting crew, but
ultimately your vision, you know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (35:17):
So that's that's huge.

Speaker 1 (35:21):
Of course, So I heard that you actually used a
specific kind of camera that captures black skin more accurately.

Speaker 2 (35:30):
Is that writer, am I Nah.

Speaker 6 (35:32):
They got the artcle that first launched that they didn't
have any bad attentions, They just miss heard.

Speaker 4 (35:38):
How we've explained it.

Speaker 6 (35:40):
At the time when we filmed the camera called the
Iver thirty five great camera just launched. There was like
maybe four of them in England at the time, and
every production company I was about the film and wanted
them and we needed them and we got them. The
camera's amazing, but it wasn't just the camera. The camera's
great and low last, so that helps obviously with darker
skin tone, but we specifically went out the way to

(36:03):
make sure all the dark skin was litting well. And
I think the reason why it was it's not normally
because if you took about your majority show just's I
say stranger things for example, I'm not saying it's not
little well, but because obviously the majority of casts is white,
you get one black. If there's a seemable sixth of
the heroes there, the light is going to favor the
majority in the shot. So sometimes the darker skin tone

(36:26):
kind of falls on the full flat because it's not
the right lighting what weve done because we had a
majority black cart. We brought on a makeup artist who's
great at doing makeup for darker skin. We brought someone
that knows how to light darker skin. We had this
camera which is great in low light. But it was
the marriage of all the things together, specifically owned to
make black skin look.

Speaker 4 (36:46):
As beautiful as it is. And yeah, that was it.
So it wasn't just one thing that's cool.

Speaker 1 (36:50):
And thank you for clarifying that, because that seems to
be out there right now.

Speaker 4 (36:53):
So I was like, what's this magical camera? I don't
know there.

Speaker 2 (37:03):
Uh where? Obviously this was season one.

Speaker 1 (37:07):
I had read somewhere that your plan is for a
three season arc.

Speaker 2 (37:13):
Is that accurate? Is that still where you're what you're thinking?

Speaker 6 (37:16):
Now, I've got a minimum free story. You had a
free story arc in my head. I know where it
goes for free seasons. Not to say you couldn't go
past it made sense. I've got free season story in
my head. Yeah, that's how I've always told Netflix, I've got.

Speaker 4 (37:31):
Three seasons in me if you look, give me the
seasons basically.

Speaker 1 (37:35):
And so now based on have you already worked, written
or developed season two or are you starting to get
into that now.

Speaker 4 (37:47):
We haven't.

Speaker 6 (37:48):
I haven't written an episode of it properly yet, but
I've joined down the character arcs and things like that,
and because.

Speaker 4 (37:56):
I know there was so it doesn't actually take me
long to ride the episodes. It's just a way. If
a Netflix suppresed that green button, man, that's.

Speaker 2 (38:03):
Ways it's coming for sure.

Speaker 1 (38:06):
And do you know?

Speaker 2 (38:09):
Do you uh?

Speaker 1 (38:10):
It's a streaming for for those that are watching or listening,
is obviously a little bit different in the development process
because typically if you've been green light for a greenlight
for a season two, you're already you know, you know,
you're working on it immediately, so it's out by September
or whatever in the traditional model. With this, obviously, you know,

(38:31):
with streaming, it's a little bit different, which gives you
some time like are you do you look at feedback
and you're like, huh, maybe I could you know, like
or are you able to separate it and be like nope,
I know what I want and that's whether it's going
to be.

Speaker 6 (38:46):
It's funny because sometimes I'll get a message your d M.
I'll see a tweet that's like, okay, that's pretty interesting
and it's fun. But the minute you start actually going
into it to write it, that's what falls out of
your heads. Because there's so much vailables that the the
viewer just doesn't know. But they don't know where how
it's going to end. They don't know what that. There's

(39:07):
so much they don't know, so you end up kind
of I end up kind of shouting it out. But
sometimes I see some great ideas. I think, oh, that's
pretty interesting, that's pretty interesting. So I think when it
comes down to it, some stuff does stay with you sublimately,
so you might come out with amazing idea that you
think he's your You don't know You've read this tweet somewhere.

Speaker 2 (39:25):
You don't know that, so you know what.

Speaker 6 (39:28):
I don't tend to pull up all the you know,
all the comments and see what I can do. I
kind of keep my vision clear.

Speaker 2 (39:36):
Awesome.

Speaker 1 (39:37):
Well, raps are rap Man, Thank you so much for
speaking with me. I can't wait till until the next
season and beyond of Supercell and and seriously and sincerely
kudos to all of the the hype and and love
that that the series is getting it so well deserved.

Speaker 4 (39:58):
Appreciate that mom, Thank you that much.

Speaker 2 (40:00):
Thank you man speak and sale. All right, our.

Speaker 1 (40:05):
Right, rapman Supercel is streaming exclusively on Netflix right now.

Speaker 2 (40:11):
Season one. He's awesome.

Speaker 3 (40:14):
Yeah, he's so cool.

Speaker 1 (40:15):
Yeah, he really is. Like I love how he's such
a visual. He's such a storyteller, you know, like even
with his music, as he was saying, it's not like
about the hook or whatever or the beat, like it's
the story.

Speaker 3 (40:29):
You can tell that. He really tries to go in
depth of what he does exactly.

Speaker 2 (40:33):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (40:33):
And I think that's why Supercell works so well. So
now you gotta watch it. It's really good.

Speaker 3 (40:37):
I will adding it, adding it to my never ending list.

Speaker 2 (40:40):
Add it to your list.

Speaker 1 (40:42):
All right, we're gonna take a break and then we're
gonna get back to the feature. We're going to come
back with the feature presentation, which is tickled because this
is batshit insane, but we'll get to that. I can't
wait to talk about it with Amanda. We'll be back
in sixty all right, we are back. Thanks for hanging
out with us. So I randomly was, you know, I

(41:06):
have so much to do at my house because you know,
I just bought it two years ago. It sounds like
a long time, but I travel a lot, so I don't,
you know, it's not like I'm there every day to
be able to get stuff done.

Speaker 3 (41:17):
Right.

Speaker 1 (41:17):
Then, my you know, my mom had passed away a
couple of years ago, and my dad recently sold my
parents' house, so I took everything from there, and I'm
going through it, you know, so I can done it. Yeah,
so it looks like a hoarder's although it looks a
lot better now than it did. But so I'm always
throwing on something that like is interesting but won't distract

(41:42):
distract me, so like I could just.

Speaker 2 (41:44):
Kind of listen to it or whatever.

Speaker 1 (41:45):
Yeah, So I randomly saw this tickled, this image on
Netflix of like a feather, and it was like tickled,
and I'm like what, And so then I click on
it and I'm like, this sounds insane.

Speaker 2 (41:58):
I'm in right.

Speaker 1 (42:00):
So the log line is journalist David Farier stumbles upon
a mysterious tickling competition online. As he delves deeper, he
comes up against fierce resistance, but that doesn't stop him
getting to the bottom of a story stranger than fiction.
So I'm like, oh, okay, you know, like I said,

(42:21):
weird I'm in, So I first of all, got nothing
done with my room.

Speaker 3 (42:26):
I'm cracking up.

Speaker 2 (42:28):
I was glued to this. It is that shit insane.

Speaker 1 (42:34):
I then became like obsessed, where like I'm googling the
people in it. I ended up finding out that there's
a short follow up called The Tickle King, and this
is just insane. So I texted you the very next
day and I'm like, yo, I want to do the
whole future presentation about Tickled, And you know, obviously you're like,

(42:57):
I have no idea what I'm talking about. I'm like,
you've got to watch this movie and you're like, okay,
I guess, and then you did.

Speaker 3 (43:04):
I did. I I couldn't contain it because you were
just you sounded so passionate over the over text, so
I said, Okay, he's tweaking about this. I have to
see right now. So I put it on while I
was doing my work. Weird, Yeah, fel freaking weird.

Speaker 1 (43:21):
So overall, do you see why I was so passionate
about it? Yes, isn't it like it's like a really
good reality show, but not like a reality you know
what I mean. It's obviously it's a documentary, but like
the twists and turns and the craziness of it.

Speaker 3 (43:40):
Are we gonna do spoilers?

Speaker 2 (43:42):
No? No, come on, or okay.

Speaker 3 (43:45):
The twist is too huge to not talk about. How
are we going to talk about the twist without spoiling it?

Speaker 2 (43:51):
This came out in twenty sixteen, so that was what
eight years ago.

Speaker 3 (43:54):
People haven't watched it by now, it's their fault.

Speaker 2 (43:56):
Yeah, So all right.

Speaker 3 (44:00):
Tick a breather, yes, before we start to go in depth.

Speaker 1 (44:03):
So we I start watching this David Farrier, who's an
incredible journalist, and I didn't actually even know until I
watched this that he did Dark Tourists Too, which is
a really cool documentary series on Netflix.

Speaker 3 (44:15):
Oh that after I finished Tickle, that popped up and
I was really interested in that. That's from the same guy.

Speaker 1 (44:21):
Yes, oh okay, yeah, and that's such a good show.

Speaker 2 (44:25):
It's it's like weird historical stuff. It's it's awesome.

Speaker 1 (44:29):
Yeah, And I didn't realize it was the same guy
until I watched this. David Farrier, you know, he is
always doing these odd and kind of quirky stories. He
somehow what somebody sends him or something a Tickle video
and he's.

Speaker 2 (44:43):
Like, what's this.

Speaker 3 (44:44):
I think he stumbled upon it.

Speaker 1 (44:46):
Like just searching or something. Yeah, and he's like, this
is kind of weird, you know. Then he begins researching
on researching it because he wants to do a story
on it. He notices that a lot of them, a
lot of these videos, almost all of them, are coming
from this Jane O'Brien Media. Yeah, all the casting calls,

(45:06):
you know, all of it is coming from the same
kind of company, which Jane O'Brien media, first of all,
sounds like a fake name.

Speaker 3 (45:13):
It does. Jane O'Brien, right.

Speaker 2 (45:16):
Media, Could you be any more yite with this.

Speaker 3 (45:19):
Red flag number one?

Speaker 2 (45:21):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (45:21):
And then weirdly enough, he reaches out that part's not weird.
He reaches out to them to say, hey, you know,
I thought this was like quirky and odd, let's do
a story.

Speaker 2 (45:32):
I'm going to do a story on this.

Speaker 1 (45:33):
Can I talk to you. He didn't mean anything. He
just thought it was like an odd, weird thing.

Speaker 3 (45:39):
He just wanted to do an interview. That's nothing, that's completely.

Speaker 2 (45:42):
Normal, right, And they respond.

Speaker 3 (45:45):
I was shook from that response.

Speaker 1 (45:48):
With this horrendous email, being like, we refuse to have
interviews with homosexuals or something and like all and.

Speaker 2 (45:56):
Like like what like where does that even come from?

Speaker 1 (45:58):
It was very harsh, Yeah, so harsh and so aggressive.
It's like what like that doesn't even he's not attacking.
He's like literally like, hey, you know what you do
was quirky. I'd love to do an interview with you
about it. And they're like they respond with that, which
is so wild to me because it's like the stuff
you're doing is pretty gay.

Speaker 3 (46:20):
Yeah, he said that. Yeah, I found it hard to
take that email seriously because it looked gay. It seemed gay. Yeah,
and it's like it does videos that they put on
the documentary they were being It was.

Speaker 1 (46:36):
Just yeah, I mean it's it's not like blatantly homosexual behavior,
but it's pretty homoerotic. Like you have these young athletic
guys that they literally seek out young athletic guys, Yeah,
to like sit on each other and tie each other
down and like tickle each other clothes.

Speaker 2 (46:56):
But I mean that's, you know, that's.

Speaker 3 (47:00):
With the way the world thinks nowadays, anyone's gonna assume
that that is in some type of way gay, right,
because it's lean.

Speaker 1 (47:10):
Yeah, I mean, it's it's you know, it doesn't make
the people involve gay or whatever. But I mean it's
pretty gay. My gay friends would be like, that's pretty gay,
you know what I mean, Like I'm not calling them
homosecutional course, but that behavior is sus.

Speaker 2 (47:32):
I mean it's pretty suss.

Speaker 3 (47:35):
Yes, I do agree, it is sus Yeah.

Speaker 1 (47:39):
So then you know, I guess we kind of have
to go through some of this in detail in order to.

Speaker 2 (47:44):
Talk about it. We do.

Speaker 3 (47:46):
We do.

Speaker 1 (47:48):
So note to yourself, if you haven't seen this yet,
maybe go watch it yet. It's on Netflix right now,
and then come back and listen to this episode because
there's there's really no way around this spoilers the spoilers,
There really isn't.

Speaker 2 (48:02):
I promise you you want to.

Speaker 1 (48:05):
Watch this movie and the follow up, The Ticklekink.

Speaker 2 (48:09):
You need to watch.

Speaker 1 (48:10):
This movie will change your life, like it has changed mind,
And I'm obsessed.

Speaker 2 (48:14):
I don't know why. I just think it's also weird.

Speaker 1 (48:16):
And crazy and unbelievable, but it was all true. It's
all true, like it's nuts. So anyway, all right, back
to us. So then David the journalist seems like, well
that's even more intriguing now that they've written this horrible email.

Speaker 2 (48:33):
Blah blah blah.

Speaker 1 (48:34):
So he calls a buddy and a television television producer, Dylan,
to kind of help him look further into it, right,
h What were you thinking at that point as you
were watching?

Speaker 3 (48:45):
After I saw the email, I was immediately taken aback. Yeah,
because of how harsh it was. Yeah, And I probably
would have done the same thing as David.

Speaker 2 (48:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (48:55):
I would have looked at this email and been like,
what in the world that I just get?

Speaker 2 (49:00):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (49:01):
Why are they so defensive? Right off the bat? It
was such a defensive email, Yeah, that it's really hard
to not be more intrigued by it.

Speaker 1 (49:13):
Exactly that you put it perfectly. It was so defensive, unnecessarily.

Speaker 2 (49:19):
Unnecessarily like you could have just said no, thank you, Yeah,
no thanks, we're not interested.

Speaker 1 (49:24):
Exactly like you went like, please look at us, we
have so much to hide. You went that route by
saying what you did?

Speaker 2 (49:33):
You know what I mean, Like, I.

Speaker 3 (49:34):
Don't understand why it was So you really just shot
yourself in the foot by sending that email.

Speaker 2 (49:39):
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (49:40):
So then this man gets his buddy, a television producer hmm,
to start filming this stuff. So then they write some
blog posts and those go viral because that whole thing
was weird.

Speaker 2 (49:50):
Well, first of.

Speaker 3 (49:51):
All, when Dylan came on board, they were researching the
domain name oh remember, and they found three hundred domain
names that all related to tickling yep. So that was
another thing that fueled David Yeah to look into this, right,
which by this point I was completely in.

Speaker 2 (50:10):
Yeah, that's when I got sucked.

Speaker 3 (50:12):
There the three hundred domain names. I said, Okay, I
got a well, I was still working, Krista, I was
still working, I promise, but I was like, Okay, whoa,
that's a lot of domain names.

Speaker 2 (50:24):
Yeah for under what?

Speaker 3 (50:26):
Yeah, and all related to tickling?

Speaker 2 (50:28):
Yeap? What the heck exactly?

Speaker 1 (50:30):
Which is I'm we're not knocking your fetish. If that's
your thing, well, I'm kind of knocking. Well, I'm not
knocking your fetish. It's not hurting anybody, you know, as
long as everybody is participating, is uh willingly participating in
their adults and all that whatever, it's.

Speaker 2 (50:50):
Unusual.

Speaker 1 (50:51):
I don't think anybody would deny that a tickle fetish
is unusual.

Speaker 3 (50:55):
I don't think anybody knows what that is exactly. I
didn't know what that was exactly until this Yeah.

Speaker 1 (51:01):
When I read the thing and it was about competitive tickling,
I'm like, that's weird. I didn't even know that was
competitive tickling. Come to find out, I like what.

Speaker 3 (51:11):
It's It's so funny though, the whole thing. Yeah, I'm
trying to contain my laughter in the mic, and I
just can't.

Speaker 1 (51:20):
I mean, you know, there's a big world out there,
and I don't know everything or most of everything. So
I'm like, oh, there's like these I don't know if
it was Olympics, Like, I didn't know competitive tickling, you know,
I'm like, Okay, that sounds weird. I'm in like that
was weird enough, But then when I realized there was
a sexual like thing with it, I'm like even weirder.

(51:44):
Like I don't understand.

Speaker 3 (51:46):
How people like that stuff, but I.

Speaker 1 (51:49):
Don't even understand, Like I think at one point one
of them said, it's really about the power over the person,
like because you're tying them up and then you're tickling them,
and then it's up to you to decide when to stop.
So it's almost like a pleasant form of torture in
some ways.

Speaker 2 (52:05):
Hm, I don't.

Speaker 3 (52:07):
Even this is this tickle torture.

Speaker 2 (52:12):
It's like so bizarre.

Speaker 3 (52:16):
It's crazy. It's so bizarre, And I would die a
little bit every time they said the phrase tickle torture.
I know, like, don't say that phrase. It just grossed
me out.

Speaker 2 (52:27):
And then the person's screen name was Terry Tickle.

Speaker 3 (52:33):
I couldn't believe that.

Speaker 2 (52:35):
Who does that Terry Tickle?

Speaker 1 (52:38):
Like, obviously that's not a real name, Like it's it
sounds like a bad Batman villain.

Speaker 3 (52:44):
It sounds like a character on Sesame Street, Terry Tickle, Like,
what the heck.

Speaker 2 (52:54):
It really does?

Speaker 1 (52:56):
That was a creepy muppet been like, my name's Erriticle.
Oh that was a guy that I was talking.

Speaker 3 (53:06):
They laughed at.

Speaker 2 (53:09):
My night?

Speaker 3 (53:10):
Was theoretickled.

Speaker 2 (53:13):
Something like something weird? You know what I mean? Anyway?

Speaker 1 (53:16):
Yes, So, like you said, they've all of these domains
that are all Tickle related, hundreds and what over three
hundred of them? Three hundred Like what do you even
do with all those? Like the whole thing is so perplexing, right,
And similarly, like you said, I'm, you know, cleaning up
my room and then I'm like okay, And that's when

(53:39):
I didn't get anything done for the rest of the
evening because I was all in I had.

Speaker 2 (53:45):
I could not keep my eyes.

Speaker 3 (53:46):
I actually had to rewatch it because I was, like
I said, I was doing while I was working. Yeah,
and I was kind of listening to it and kind
of not and then once I clocked out, I was like, okay,
I'm locked in. Yeah, and I rewatched the whole thing,
so I've seen it twice.

Speaker 2 (53:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (54:00):
And then wait, my sister came home from work and
I made her watch it, so I think that I've
watched it three times. Okay, we didn't finish it. We
got forty minutes in, but I didn't tell her anything.
So I told her. I said, hey, one of my
coworkers he texted me this film and it's called Tickled,
and I'm wanting you to watch it. And she's like
what it's about? And I was going to tell her.

(54:21):
I was going to tell her what it was about,
but then I thought about it and I was like,
you know what, I want you to go in here
completely blind. Yeah, and she was shook. I was getting
her raw reaction. I'd look over, mouth is open, mouth,
hand is over the mouth, eyes are bulged out. I'm like, yeah, yeah,

(54:43):
keep on watching, keep on watching. And it was like
eleven pm and we had to stop it because we
were so exhausting. Yeah, we're finishing it tonight. Oh good,
So I'm gonna watch Tickle It again the fourth time.

Speaker 2 (54:58):
That's so funny.

Speaker 4 (55:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (55:00):
So at that point for me, I was like, something
nefarious is going on, Like this isn't just some weirdo
company that's doing like some kind of sex thing something.
Something's wrong, you know, like really wrong. It's sus exactly,

(55:21):
it's very sus So they're researching.

Speaker 2 (55:25):
Oh.

Speaker 3 (55:25):
Then she starts harassing them.

Speaker 1 (55:27):
Yeah, she's harassing them, and then sends to what he
thinks are lawyers, to representatives to New Zealand to meet
with him to stop him from doing three this.

Speaker 2 (55:39):
Oh it was three Yeah. Oh yeah, I watched four times.

Speaker 1 (55:42):
It was three to kind of stop them. The one
guy was super nice. I thought the guy with the
long gray hair was horrendous.

Speaker 3 (55:53):
I couldn't believe it.

Speaker 2 (55:54):
Yeah he was.

Speaker 4 (55:55):
So.

Speaker 3 (55:56):
He was also defensive. Yeah, I mean he shook his
hands and nice to meet you. And then thirty second
later it was I know what you think you're trying
to do here? Yeah, And I'm like, why is he
what the heck?

Speaker 2 (56:06):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (56:06):
And David was explaining, you know New Zealand laws, we
are allowed to film in public. Yeah, Like, like I said,
you're not researching the country that you're going to.

Speaker 2 (56:15):
Exactly, why are you getting.

Speaker 3 (56:16):
So upset and then storming off?

Speaker 2 (56:17):
Yes? Yeah, what do you have to hide? Exactly?

Speaker 1 (56:20):
And why did you come all the way out there
just to to start off on a bad foot with
this guy exactly?

Speaker 2 (56:26):
You know what I mean?

Speaker 3 (56:27):
And because David was very respectful, he was extremely Yeah.

Speaker 2 (56:31):
Like he was way nice.

Speaker 1 (56:33):
I thought to myself when that guy said I know
what you think you're trying to do or whatever, I
in my head I had like a whole argument with
the guy like that as I was David, and I'm like, no,
mother clucker, here's what I am doing. I know what
you think you're doing, coming here to try to convince
me to not do it. But guess what, bud talk

(56:53):
is over. Hope you enjoyed your flight, see you later
or you know what I mean? Yeah, no, bitch.

Speaker 3 (56:57):
But maybe David didn't want to get off wrong. He
didn't because obviously they're going to talk again. Yeah, so
they're not going anywhere in this initial meeting.

Speaker 2 (57:06):
Yeah, So yeah, he was very he's very professional.

Speaker 3 (57:10):
I gotta commend him because I got to commend David
because you know, maybe it's that New Zealand thing. Yeah,
because Americans.

Speaker 1 (57:20):
Yeah, we would have been like like exactly like what
I say, you know what I mean? Uh yeah, And
he was so and he was very like never got
angry with him, never like never, you know, never misspoke,
he was, but still gave the facts. He was like,
you know, I understand, but you know, in New Zealand,
we're not doing you know, this is the law and
we're allowed to blah blah blah, and so anyway blah.

(57:41):
Like he was very nice and and yeah, and I'm like, wow,
you know, but I guess that's why he has a
movie out and I don't because I would have, you know,
fought with the guy.

Speaker 2 (57:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (57:53):
So then they do that and they don't want you know,
the next day or whatever. They don't want the cameras
rolling in the meeting, but it sounds like they have
audio recording anyway. They do, and they're basically telling him
you should be scared if you continue on this path,
you know what I mean? Would you agree, Like that's
kind of what they implied.

Speaker 3 (58:14):
That is what they implied, and I just feel like
it was so weird because why is it such a
big deal? Right now? All David did was ask a question,
can I do an interview? And then harassment followed after, yeah, immediately.

Speaker 1 (58:29):
After Yeah, and he was getting all kinds of emails,
like multiple emails all the time from this Jane O'Brien
media and by.

Speaker 3 (58:36):
Debbie Koon right, yes, and he asked them have you
ever met her or Jane? And they all said no, right.

Speaker 2 (58:44):
Which is also weird, really freaking weird.

Speaker 3 (58:48):
And when he asked, does that concern you guys, they
were like absolutely not, absolutely not, as if they're putting
their whole entire like faith in these people.

Speaker 2 (58:57):
That you've never met, you've never seen before.

Speaker 1 (58:59):
That you literally flew across the world four and haven't
met them, Like that's insanity. Yeah, the whole thing is
so weird. And then of course they basically you know,
bully him.

Speaker 3 (59:14):
They had that coffee and the camera in the coffee cup.

Speaker 2 (59:16):
Oh yeah, that was smart.

Speaker 3 (59:18):
Yes, it was David points. Yeah he got points for that.

Speaker 1 (59:21):
Yeah, he's awesome. And then they were then even more
you know, David and Dylan were even more intrigued because
they're like, yeah, what is going on? So they basically
follow them back to La Yeah, and find you know,
obviously through their research, but they find a casting call
and kind of stake it out to see what's going on,

(59:44):
which who's at the casting call. But that one weird
guy that wasn't like the two adults who was like
the younger one that it.

Speaker 2 (59:51):
Was like, are you care failed me? You know what
I'm talking about?

Speaker 1 (59:54):
He was there and the gray haired man yep, and
they were filming sus.

Speaker 3 (01:00:01):
Yeah, he said that you can hear laughter through the events. Yeah,
Oh my god. That's creepy number one, creepy number two.
I would feel like I am invading privacy honestly, Like
it seems so intimate.

Speaker 2 (01:00:15):
I know.

Speaker 1 (01:00:17):
And yeah, the whole thing is so weird. And these guys,
you know, some of them. Here's the other thing. Some
of them were underage, which I didn't understand because they
were Yeah. Remember the one guy, the MMA.

Speaker 2 (01:00:32):
Fighter guy, Oh, he was, Yes.

Speaker 1 (01:00:34):
He was saying that a guy that he had recruited
was under age. And then his family got you know, notified,
and they were I guess because it's not blatantly pornographic
that it's Okay, yeah, but that is horrible.

Speaker 3 (01:00:49):
Well, those were never supposed to go out anyway, because
those are the auditioning tastes.

Speaker 2 (01:00:53):
Right, which is also sus like, oh yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:00:57):
They had to do three levels of audition. They had
to do the initial one tickle test. Yeah, I hate
saying that, man, hold on the I hate it.

Speaker 1 (01:01:10):
Oh yeah, it gives you me creus to say.

Speaker 3 (01:01:13):
That the tickle test number one was just like regular tickling,
and then they tied them down for tickle test too,
and then for tickle Test three they like went all in. Yeah,
it's just like there's steps for this. Yeah, this is chaotic.

Speaker 2 (01:01:30):
It is insane. I can't even believe we're talking about that.

Speaker 3 (01:01:33):
I can because it's just I don't know, it's tickle tickling.

Speaker 2 (01:01:38):
Man, It's just like it's so weird and wild and yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:01:43):
So then so in the story, they figure out this
person known as Terry DeSisto, whose alias was Terry Tickle.

Speaker 2 (01:01:55):
Stop.

Speaker 3 (01:01:56):
Oh my god, I'm getting.

Speaker 1 (01:01:57):
You're gonna hear that, like you're gonna like lay down tonight.
And then you're like you're gonna like hear a faint whisper.
It's gonna be like.

Speaker 3 (01:02:04):
Harry and then I'm gonna throw a hand.

Speaker 2 (01:02:08):
And then nobody's there.

Speaker 3 (01:02:10):
Oh but yeah, but I'm sure Terry Tickle would wait
Tickle Terry is Terry Tile, Like, oh, I just don't
want to talk about that.

Speaker 2 (01:02:19):
He's gonna haunt our dreams.

Speaker 3 (01:02:20):
Oh my god.

Speaker 1 (01:02:21):
They so so they find out about this Terry DeSisto
is behind all this, and that person had been distributing
tickle videos online like literally since the early nineties. And
then David and Dylan go and talk to this independent
tickling video producer who that guy seemed besides the whole
tickling thing, relatively normal.

Speaker 3 (01:02:41):
He did seem normal, you know what I mean, and
didn't get any weird vibe exactly until he said he was.

Speaker 2 (01:02:47):
And even then I was just like, first of.

Speaker 3 (01:02:49):
All, the slow moe zooming of his face as he's sick.
That sent me over the edge.

Speaker 2 (01:02:57):
That was unnecessary. He was creepy.

Speaker 3 (01:03:00):
And the music, but I know the music, I'm.

Speaker 2 (01:03:02):
Like, what is this?

Speaker 1 (01:03:04):
But he until that, like you said, until that part,
I was like, Oh, this guy's normal. He just like
runs basically an adult like fetish site.

Speaker 3 (01:03:13):
Yeah, And then they started.

Speaker 2 (01:03:14):
Doing the tickling and that guy that the guy they
were tickling. He's like, hey, bro, what's up.

Speaker 1 (01:03:19):
Like, yeah, I thought it was weird first, but like,
you know, who knows a little good tickle or something.

Speaker 3 (01:03:24):
I'm like he was like, I'm the risk taker. My
sister was like for.

Speaker 1 (01:03:28):
Tickling, yeah, you're such a bad boy, Like what it is?

Speaker 3 (01:03:35):
It's their own.

Speaker 1 (01:03:36):
Yeah, And I think I don't think that guy did
it for pleasure. The guy that was getting tickled, Yeah,
I think he just wanted the money and was like whatever. Yeah,
like you know, and they make a few thousand dollars
like a pop.

Speaker 3 (01:03:49):
No, that that's some good money. Not gonna lie.

Speaker 2 (01:03:51):
Yeah, I mean, you.

Speaker 1 (01:03:52):
Know, terry tickle if you around there, I don't mind
getting pickled for a few thousands, you know.

Speaker 3 (01:03:59):
Make the cut.

Speaker 1 (01:04:01):
But uh but yeah, so, oh god, I hope I
don't get weird emails now and like, yeah, send us
feet picks already, get that now.

Speaker 2 (01:04:10):
I don't want this weird.

Speaker 1 (01:04:11):
I swear to go, oh my god, it suchs weird
DM sometimes Jesus.

Speaker 2 (01:04:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:04:17):
But uh.

Speaker 1 (01:04:18):
Anyway, so they interviewed this guy and comparatively he's like, oh,
I know who that is first of all, and like, yeah,
they've been doing this forever and then.

Speaker 2 (01:04:27):
Yeah I do this and blah blah blah. Like he
it was.

Speaker 1 (01:04:29):
It felt like a business, like a weird business, but
a business comparatively compared to the Jane O'Brien media, which
felt like a weird, creepy crime syndicate, you know what
I mean, which, yeah, it kind of was.

Speaker 3 (01:04:43):
Those Tickle sessions were I don't know that those were
just very eerie in my opinion.

Speaker 2 (01:04:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:04:49):
Look the location that these are being filmed at. Yeah,
like it looks like abandoned type building. Yeah, like apocalyptic vibe, right,
and it's very secluded. Number one, you know, it looks
old as I don't know what. Number two, Number three,
it's just a bunch of random guys. Yeah, that are
all in the same age range, and it's just getting

(01:05:12):
tied down and going to tickle Town.

Speaker 1 (01:05:15):
Yeah, they're on the train to tickle Town.

Speaker 2 (01:05:19):
They're on the tickle train to tickle Town. Oh my god. Oh.

Speaker 1 (01:05:23):
And then they interviewed that one group of guys like
before it got crazy, TJ.

Speaker 3 (01:05:27):
Remember TJ, the one that talked about the site that
was put up.

Speaker 2 (01:05:31):
Oh yeah yeah yeah yeah, I felt.

Speaker 3 (01:05:34):
So terrible yeah him. Yeah, And that ended up being
the three hundred domain sites that Dylan found in the
beginning of the documentary. I could not believe it.

Speaker 1 (01:05:44):
Yeah, and he was he was the one that was
like recruited to wait, wait, wait, which one was TJ?

Speaker 2 (01:05:50):
Now I'm getting confused.

Speaker 3 (01:05:51):
TJ was the one the very beginning where he was
the old player. He's a football player.

Speaker 2 (01:05:56):
Oh where they're interviewing at the gym yea yeah yeah yeah,
that was insane.

Speaker 3 (01:06:00):
Yeah, and you know what, I think he got off
for two thousand dollars.

Speaker 2 (01:06:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:06:05):
And Kevin one of the guys that met David and
New Zealand, he said that Kevin told him that it
was a tickle torture project for the military, right, And
he was like that is complete made up. Yeah, I
think that's complete cap Like, ain't no way. He was like, yeah, yeah,
they're gonna use tiggling as a torture in a military
US military.

Speaker 1 (01:06:26):
Right exactly, and video it, you know what I mean,
and like, you know, have these random weirdos in there, like.

Speaker 3 (01:06:33):
And he found he found his tape on YouTube and
he emailed Jane O'Bryant and he didn't get the respond.

Speaker 1 (01:06:41):
They destroyed his life, completely destroyed his life, harassed him,
sent his videos to his employers he was a football coach,
sent it to his school that he was coaching.

Speaker 2 (01:06:52):
At, like completely destroyed his life.

Speaker 1 (01:06:56):
Also way overly aggressive, just like what they did what
they started with David.

Speaker 3 (01:07:02):
They were making up rumors. They said that he was
a child molester, right, he was a drug addict. Yeah,
I mean this guy got raked through the mud. Yeah,
over this whole entire And then they made that website,
and not only that, but they put all of his
personal information.

Speaker 1 (01:07:17):
On a stress his phone numbers, his family, everything, like
completely horrendously disgusting, ununbelievable, horrendously And what they were finding
was anybody who questioned what was happening is what this
Jane O'Brien media was doing to the guys who would
be like, hey is this legit? Or hey I thought

(01:07:40):
that video wasn't supposed to be online, that they would
make audition.

Speaker 3 (01:07:43):
Our website about that guy.

Speaker 2 (01:07:45):
In their own name.

Speaker 1 (01:07:46):
So it would be like having Kyle McMahon dot com
and somebody putting up all my information these tickle videos
that I thought were private, were never supposed to go anywhere,
and basically destroying my life. If I questioned why this
video that was supposed to be private or if you stopped.

Speaker 2 (01:08:03):
Yeah, that's blackmail exactly. It's it's horrendous sick.

Speaker 1 (01:08:09):
And then when they interviewed that one group of guys together,
there were like four or five of them. They looked
like they were on a soccer team or something. I
was like, I think that was towards the beginning, and
I was like, oh, this is like and then when
they started like doing I was like, uh oh, I
was like, these are like normal guys. Whople are just
like whatever, I need two thousand bucks or whatever, and

(01:08:29):
then get kind of roped into this and then are
blackmailed into continuing to do it or their lives will
be ruined. Like it's insane. Oh, and how about that guy,
David Starr.

Speaker 3 (01:08:42):
I literally felt so bad for him, So did I
when I was when his bit came on. Yeah, because
then but he didn't work for an O'Brien. He worked
for Tickle Terry, right and stop laughing at that old
berry and then and then Tickled Terry went to the

(01:09:04):
hospital for what six months, yes, and was still demanding
these videos be made. Yeah, and David was what the
recruiter I don't think he was being tickled. But he
was the one that was recruiting the men.

Speaker 2 (01:09:16):
I thought he was filming it.

Speaker 3 (01:09:17):
Yeah, I think he was filming and recruiting.

Speaker 2 (01:09:19):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:09:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:09:20):
He described himself as like her little drug dealers exactly.
So he didn't want to do it eventually because she
wanted to then post the videos.

Speaker 2 (01:09:29):
Right.

Speaker 1 (01:09:29):
He realized that she was posting the like audition videos,
which they were being told weren't going to be posted, right,
So he was like, that's wrong.

Speaker 3 (01:09:38):
Yeah, he took a stand, and then she completely flipped
and ruined his Oh my god, those videos about his
not the videos, those letters about his.

Speaker 2 (01:09:48):
Brothers, yeah, who had passed away.

Speaker 3 (01:09:50):
He was terrible having his mom like get those mail Yeah,
my god.

Speaker 2 (01:09:56):
It was absolutely it was insane.

Speaker 3 (01:10:00):
But then it's a twist.

Speaker 2 (01:10:02):
But then the twist twist go.

Speaker 3 (01:10:07):
It was actually a man named David Dematto, Yes, that
was running both, oh allegedly running both Tickle Terry and
Jane O'Brien media. But David Dematto, because they didn't, David Star
email someone for help and he said, send this file

(01:10:32):
Tickle Terry, and in that zipped file.

Speaker 2 (01:10:35):
It was like all of his personal information, his.

Speaker 3 (01:10:37):
Personal information that was linked to that person. First of all,
he took the social security numbers of Terry DeSisto, the
real Terry DeSisto passed away and was posing as her,
this deceased woman.

Speaker 2 (01:10:54):
And had credit cards in her name and everything.

Speaker 3 (01:10:57):
And then to top it all off, he was a
stant principle, right, wow, assistant principle.

Speaker 2 (01:11:03):
That's crazy.

Speaker 4 (01:11:03):
Watched time.

Speaker 1 (01:11:06):
It makes you wonder like was he like recruiting people.
I'm sure they would have figured it out, like David
and Dylan and all, but like, was he recruiting people
from schools? I guess not. But they also said he
was going like he would only work at a school
for like a couple of years and then go to
another one.

Speaker 2 (01:11:22):
And like, by me, it was also extremely weird.

Speaker 1 (01:11:24):
Yeah, yeah, it is insane. And then they locate this
guy David Dematto, who is so weird and like reclusive,
and it comes come to find out his father was
like a billionaire or something because he started like some
big de motto and something bank or something on the

(01:11:45):
stock market or something. Right, so he was basically living
off of a trust fund, a trust fund, he literally was,
and then when.

Speaker 3 (01:11:52):
His mother passed away, he got money there, millions yep,
from her estate.

Speaker 2 (01:11:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:11:57):
So he was using all of this money for all
these weird things and kind of bullying people into bullying
people into well, like you said, blackmailing, not even bullying, blackmailing,
that's what it is. Yeah, And so they learn that
he got He served a six month prison sentence for
disabling a computer system at two different universities and retaliation

(01:12:20):
against an eighteen year old. Remember that he had an
eighteen year old that he was doing underage shoots for him,
tickle videos for David Diamato. When he went to college,
he was like, I'm done doing this. I remember David
ended up logging into his school's computer system, shutting it

(01:12:42):
down and pretending that it was him the student.

Speaker 3 (01:12:45):
Is that when the secret Service came in?

Speaker 2 (01:12:47):
Yes, oh my goodness. And it was at Temple University
in Phillies, Yes, yeah, I thought it was Drexel, Drexel, Drexel.

Speaker 3 (01:12:55):
Yeah, yes, it was at Drexel because I remember hearing Drexeln.
I was like, oh my god, that's forty minutes from n.

Speaker 2 (01:12:59):
Yeah, yep.

Speaker 1 (01:13:01):
So he broke into their system pretending to be the
student all because he was like, I'm not doing videos anymore.
That is beyond psychotic.

Speaker 3 (01:13:12):
You can tell that David Demadel never got told no
exact child, yep, because that is not almost behavior.

Speaker 1 (01:13:19):
Yeah yeah, it is like super villain behavior. It's insane.

Speaker 2 (01:13:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:13:24):
And then they kind of, I don't want to say,
stalk him, but Dylan and David end up kind of
they want to talk to him because he's the one
behind all of this, right, He's the one that's you know,
bullying and harassing David. So he wants to confront him
and be like, hey, let's get on the record and
have a conversation. And they finally track him down and

(01:13:46):
he basically threatens him legally and blah blah blah, like
that was crazy.

Speaker 3 (01:13:50):
Well didn't they wait like a week or a couple
of days from him, because he didn't knock him out
of his apartment exactly, which is also kind of weird.

Speaker 2 (01:13:58):
It's weird.

Speaker 3 (01:13:59):
Why are you not leave your house days on end?

Speaker 2 (01:14:01):
Is that covid exactly? It's so weird, Like, what are
you doing?

Speaker 1 (01:14:07):
I can't go three hours without leaving my house, Like,
what are you doing for five days?

Speaker 2 (01:14:12):
In our row?

Speaker 3 (01:14:16):
Tiggle very f it's tickle Tuesday. Oh, my god, let's
not make that a thing. Please, I'm so close to
walking out finishes by herself. No, I'm kidding, but don't
test me.

Speaker 1 (01:14:32):
So then he ends up contacting So his father had
passed away, Yes, his mother had passed away. So David
ends up contacting his stepmother, which is basically had cut
ties off with him m after the father died, because
she was like, I'm scared of him.

Speaker 2 (01:14:48):
He's insane.

Speaker 1 (01:14:50):
And she said that she was shocked that he was
back in the tickle ring or whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:14:57):
Yes, she did, you know what I mean.

Speaker 3 (01:14:58):
And David, he never stopped.

Speaker 2 (01:15:01):
Yeah, yep.

Speaker 3 (01:15:03):
And then the stepmother just tells David Domado's whole life story.

Speaker 2 (01:15:07):
Yeah, yep. Bench was like, you know what, boom.

Speaker 3 (01:15:09):
Here is this this this He was bullied as a kid.
They locked him in a locker as a kid. His
mom was protective, you know, just trust fun. Yeah, just
the whole entire thing that you would assume, yep, from
a person like this.

Speaker 1 (01:15:24):
So then that's the end of the film. Incredible film
by itself, right Then of course I'm googling and researching
and all. And David Tomato actually sued his stepmother for.

Speaker 3 (01:15:36):
That forty dollars.

Speaker 2 (01:15:38):
Yeah, and he lost, which I think is hilarious.

Speaker 3 (01:15:41):
First of all, I cannot believe he didn't go to
prison for everything that he did. Yeah, and on top
of that, he was allowed to go to law school.
Right while he was doing his sentence. Yes, and that
one guy who was speaking, he was saying, Yeah, the
court system was like, yes, this is exactly who needs
to be a lawyer. Exactly, this guy who stole this

(01:16:02):
deceased woman's identity, this one who is blackmailing this it,
this needs to be a lawyer.

Speaker 2 (01:16:06):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:16:07):
That is ridiculous to me.

Speaker 2 (01:16:09):
It's insane.

Speaker 3 (01:16:10):
And he did it. He graduated from law school.

Speaker 2 (01:16:13):
Yep.

Speaker 3 (01:16:14):
It is absturity, insane, Yeah, the irony in it.

Speaker 2 (01:16:18):
So then he's passed away now, David Dimatto.

Speaker 3 (01:16:21):
Oh I did I did research that. Yeah, and so
he can't have anything to say about this exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:16:27):
David Diamatto actively spammed and controlled a variety of news groups,
particularly alt dot Gothic and wreck dot Music dot Fish,
from roughly nineteen ninety six to nineteen ninety nine, initiated
email bombings against those he considered opponents, and solicited video
recordings of young male adults being bound and Tickled, all
while using the pseudonym alter ego Terry DeSisto, who was

(01:16:50):
supposedly a female college student. Diamatto was found guilty of
email bobbings, which caused services service outages at a number
of colleges and universities. He was finding five thousand dollars,
that's it, and spent six months in federal prison after
being convicted. He died in March twenty seventeen, which was
one year after Tickle came out, which I think is

(01:17:13):
also interesting.

Speaker 3 (01:17:15):
Wait, exactly one year.

Speaker 2 (01:17:17):
Not to like the day.

Speaker 1 (01:17:18):
Oh okay, so the documentary, Yeah, that would have been
very weird. Yeah, that came out May twenty sixteen. He
died in March twenty seventeen, so not even a year.
That's super interesting.

Speaker 3 (01:17:29):
That's crazy.

Speaker 2 (01:17:30):
Yeah, I wonder where all his money went. I'm just
curious that.

Speaker 3 (01:17:34):
He didn't have kids, yeah, or a spouse.

Speaker 2 (01:17:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:17:37):
So then I found out on Reddit that there was
a follow up, a short called The Tickle King yep,
which I then of course got to watch.

Speaker 2 (01:17:48):
My entire night that night became consumed with this. I
was like obsessed.

Speaker 3 (01:17:52):
I can tell yeah, and I can see why.

Speaker 1 (01:17:54):
Yeah, And I actually contacted David, but I want to
get him on and and interview him about this and
Dark Tourists and everything else he's doing.

Speaker 2 (01:18:04):
Because I just need to know. I just need to
talk to him.

Speaker 3 (01:18:07):
Yeah, you just need to get the more information.

Speaker 2 (01:18:10):
It's not enough, it's not I want to know.

Speaker 3 (01:18:11):
Feel content, like what I know that there are some cuts.
Tell me the cuts.

Speaker 1 (01:18:17):
Yes, so for the Tickle King, which is like twenty minutes,
says The follow up to Tickled features new footage documenting
the bizarre and unsettling things that happened to the filmmakers. Uh,
which this was super super interesting. David Dimatto shows up
at a festival screening of Tickled, which is.

Speaker 5 (01:18:42):
Nuts nuts When I saw well, when I heard that
David Demato was in the crowd, my jaw literally hit
the full Yeah, I could not believe it.

Speaker 1 (01:18:54):
Yeah, it is like the insane. Like when I say insane, lot,
that's like insane.

Speaker 3 (01:19:02):
That's really insane.

Speaker 1 (01:19:04):
Yeah, you did all of this that is all documented
in this movie. And then you go to a public
screening of the movie with the director.

Speaker 3 (01:19:13):
I mean, I don't know what he was thinking. Yeah,
he probably wanted to see it. Like they're like everybody else.
What are they saying about me with the Q and
A Oh yes, the Q and A. Oh my god,
I forgot about the freaking Q and A.

Speaker 1 (01:19:29):
He's eating popcorn while they're talking about him, like he's
watching Twisters or something.

Speaker 3 (01:19:35):
It's looking so unbothered at how this documentary that he's
literally ruined these people's lives. Yes, harassed, blackmailed, made up names, everything,
the whole nine yards, everything you could think of, he did. Yeah,
and he's just sitting there eating his popcorn, listening to
these people ask these outrageous questions. Yeah, that are very serious. Yeah,

(01:19:58):
and he's this is like live in large.

Speaker 2 (01:20:02):
Yeah, it's like he's watching TV or something.

Speaker 1 (01:20:05):
It is insane. And then the gray haired guy confronts David.

Speaker 3 (01:20:11):
Oh yes he does in that way, and like it
wasn't a was it in the screening?

Speaker 1 (01:20:15):
It was it was a different screening because what Dylan
was on one screening and David was at the other one.

Speaker 3 (01:20:21):
Yeah, and they got into it, they lobby.

Speaker 2 (01:20:23):
Into it, and I'm like, oh, this is good. This
is the drama I live for. This is good.

Speaker 1 (01:20:32):
I mean, you cannot write that, you know what I mean? No,
you cannot write if that was not a documentary, I'd
be like, that's so stupid.

Speaker 2 (01:20:41):
That would never happen, you know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (01:20:43):
Like if it was like a regular movie, like a
fiction movie, yeah, I'd be like.

Speaker 2 (01:20:48):
That was dumb, Like that guy would never come. No,
you came. They both came, came.

Speaker 3 (01:20:55):
With popcorn and all.

Speaker 2 (01:20:56):
Yeah. I mean, oh my god.

Speaker 1 (01:21:00):
And what's crazy is David says that after those kind
of public screening fiascos, Yeah, never heard from.

Speaker 2 (01:21:08):
Him again, all the harassments stopped and everything.

Speaker 5 (01:21:11):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (01:21:12):
It's like so bizarre, so bizarre, the whole thing. So
what do you think overall?

Speaker 3 (01:21:20):
I think that David de Model was behind Jane ol
Brian media.

Speaker 2 (01:21:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:21:24):
Absolutely, obviously. Terry Tickles confirmed. Harry Tiggle could confirm what
I am a just if David the Model was alm.

Speaker 2 (01:21:37):
Kidding like, uh, my friend once a uh wants to
be into movies. My life has changed?

Speaker 3 (01:21:44):
Was it really that impactful for you, Kyle? Well, it's
because I feel like if I was a guy, it
would have it would put things a little bit more
into perspective.

Speaker 2 (01:21:54):
It's so it was impactful.

Speaker 1 (01:21:56):
Like when I say my life's changed, I'm being extra
But well, are you really. I mean I am to
a point, but I mean, like, is my life like change, Like, oh,
I'm a new person, like not literally, but it was
so powerful, like because it's just so unbelievable and it's real,

(01:22:18):
you know what I mean. That's why I'm just like Okay.
So I was obsessed with another documentary which I don't
know if you would like, but it is called Gray Gardens.
Which that was also a weird time in my life.
My mom had just passed away. I was like kind
of in a funk and not really leaving the house,
and I was watching like Cops reruns of like the
Cops show on Pluto, and I was watching like Unsolved Mysteries,

(01:22:42):
and I came upon this documentary called Gray Gardens, okay,
and I became obsessed with it.

Speaker 2 (01:22:48):
I still quote it to this day. It is so
weird too.

Speaker 3 (01:22:51):
What's it about?

Speaker 2 (01:22:51):
Though?

Speaker 3 (01:22:53):
Now?

Speaker 1 (01:22:57):
It is about the daily lives of two ages eccentric
relatives of Jackie Kennedy onasas Eddie Bouvier Beale and her
mother mother Edith, are the sole inhabitants of a Long
Island estate. During the course of the documentary, they discuss
their habits, desires, and former loves with famous filmmakers. The
women reveal themselves to be misfits with outsized, engaging personalities.

(01:23:21):
So basically, the just behind that, I feel like we're
setting up a whole other episode now on Grey Gardens now,
But the just beyond Greg Gardens is that the mansion
became like dilapidated, and then eventually the power company turned
it off and the water company and blah blah blah,
And so then you have these like kind of eccentric
mother and daughter who you know, rarely if ever leave

(01:23:44):
this state that have just lived there for decades, and
so they like entertain themselves, they like make costumes, and
it is so sad but also so powerful and also
so amazing that that had a big impact on me too.
I think it's true stories of weird things that I'm like,

(01:24:04):
who like those really get me, you know what I mean? Yeah,
because it's just like, you know, there's a big world
out there and a lot of us are confined to
our own little bubbles that I'm like, what, like somebody
could do that to somebody else with like Jane O'Brien
media and all that, like and then harassed people Like
it's just so outside of my bubble, Like I can't
fathom somebody doing it that to know, it's real. It's

(01:24:27):
not like a fictional movie, like it's a documentary. Is
wild to me. Same thing with great gardens, like you
have these these two women are it's like your grandmother
and your aunt or something like they're well, they're very eccentric,
like goofy and and kind of weird and unique, but
very sweet, like so nice and you know, so it'd

(01:24:48):
be like if you had like a really weird grandmother
that like dressing up, or a really weird aunt that
you're like, oh that's Auntie, you know, Jess or whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:24:57):
You know, it's just hews, you you know.

Speaker 1 (01:24:59):
But they live in this giant mansion on in a
neighborhood with all these multi millionaires. Theirs looks dilapidated and
they don't have money to eat or you know, have power,
and they live in this like giant rich thing. It's
just so fascinating to me.

Speaker 3 (01:25:18):
It's like so ironic. Yeah, how you're around big money
and you live essentially in a house that is created
from big money, right, you don't live the big money
life exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:25:29):
Yep.

Speaker 3 (01:25:29):
That is very interesting.

Speaker 1 (01:25:31):
Yeah, So that film. That documentary also had a big
impact on me. I think it's the stories, like I said,
like where there's these weird I don't want to say outsiders,
but weird outsiders, you know what I mean in ways because.

Speaker 3 (01:25:44):
They in a way that they are outsiders because they're
not in the.

Speaker 2 (01:25:47):
Bubble right off your life exactly.

Speaker 3 (01:25:49):
But for me, it's similar to what you said, And
it also brings l how close these things happen. Yeah,
because this happened in New York Yeah, and Philly yep,
you know with that guy and.

Speaker 1 (01:26:03):
They said he had sales all over the country exactly
where he was recruiting these guys all over They named
like twenty five cities or something exactly.

Speaker 3 (01:26:11):
And it's like, yeah, it's nice to see what goes
on to these documentaries because it is out of our bubble,
but in reality, it's really close to us. Yeah, it's
closer than what I think we think. Yeah it is, yep,
because Philly is like forty minutes from us exactly. So yeah, Drexel,
everyone around here knows drugs University.

Speaker 2 (01:26:31):
Yep.

Speaker 3 (01:26:32):
I probably have friends that have friends that go to
drugs with university. It's like, dang, yeah, it happened there.

Speaker 1 (01:26:39):
That is why I think I love documentaries, especially good ones,
you know, because it does expose us to a world
outside of our.

Speaker 2 (01:26:49):
Own, right, you know what I mean?

Speaker 3 (01:26:50):
Yep?

Speaker 2 (01:26:51):
Yeah, anyway, that's tickled.

Speaker 3 (01:26:53):
That was crazy.

Speaker 2 (01:26:54):
Yeah. Are you glad you watched it for the podcast?

Speaker 3 (01:26:57):
I am, because I would have come in here. I
would have came in here and listened to this whole entire.

Speaker 2 (01:27:04):
You would have thought I was in insane person.

Speaker 3 (01:27:06):
Well, I don't think that anyone would take to this
documentary with open arms initially, Yeah, because it's just weird.
Number One, people don't know this is a fetish. People
don't even know that this is a thing. People don't
know that this is a form of torture. I mean,

(01:27:27):
it's weird. But when you get into it, when you
when you put past the judgment, you know a little bit,
you can find some pretty neat stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:27:36):
And some of those people in this film and involved
in that, some of the people interviewed and and tickled
seemed to be otherwise very very normal.

Speaker 3 (01:27:47):
Oh yeah, you could see them in the street right then.
The TJ guy, he said that when he went to
the session, he said that it was normal people bodybuilders
were there, Yeah, actors that acted in commercials that he had. Yeah,
we're in that session.

Speaker 2 (01:28:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:28:03):
And even he he said, it was just you would
see these people downtown, yeah, all the time, grocery store whatever.
I mean, that's what's scary about it too, right, that
you think you have an image of the type of
person that these people are and then they could be
just your neighbor. Yeah, at the end of the day.
And that's the scary part.

Speaker 2 (01:28:22):
Your neighbor could be.

Speaker 3 (01:28:24):
The cold serry. Wrap this up, Wrap.

Speaker 1 (01:28:30):
This up, all right. That is our episode for that's
it for today. That's it for this episode. It was
you know, we had the delightful rapman on to talk
about his giant Netflix hit, Supercel and Amanda and I
talked all about Tickled and The Tickle King. Tickled is

(01:28:51):
available exclusively on Netflix and The Tickle King is available.
The short follow up is available on YouTube. And I
believe HBO Max don't quote me on that. In any event,
Thank you for hanging out with us. Let me know
what you think about Tickled. All of the show notes,
all of the links are in the show notes that
hit hit me up and I'll see you next week.

Speaker 2 (01:29:14):
All right, I love you. We thank you for listening
to pop Culture Weekly. Here all the latest at popcultureweekly
dot com. It's tickle Tuesday Liststickle theory,

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