March 24, 2025 • 32 mins
Jane Higgins Marx joined Carlile Patchen & Murphy LLP in August 2000 and practices estate and business planning, probate, probate litigation, business succession planning, and elder law. Jane counsels individuals, business owners, executives, and caregivers through estate planning, estate and gift taxation, income taxation of trusts and estates, charitable giving, business succession, and probate matters. She provides comprehensive planning for disability in her practice, including counseling on special needs and elder law issues. Jane assists executors, trustees, guardians, and other fiduciaries in complying with various legal and fiduciary responsibilities. Jane is CPM’s Managing Partner and past chair of CPM’s Family Wealth & Estate Planning Group.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Columbus in Central Ohio have a rich history of companies
being headquartered here, everything from technology, manufacturing, retail, insurance, and more.
But what about the leaders behind these companies? What makes
them tick? How do they get their start? This is
where you get to meet the captain of the ship.
Welcome to CEOs You Should Know and iHeartMedia Columbus Podcast.
Welcome back to another episode of CEOs You Should Know.
(00:23):
This is an iHeartMedia Columbus podcast. This is where we
get to explore and dive into some of the who's
who of Columbus as far as the leaders go, and
just so many different industries. And today it's all about
law and some of the various law firms that are
around town. Specifically, our guest today is Jane Higgins Marx,
(00:44):
who joint or is with the Carlisle, Patchan and Murphy
Law firm. Jane, good to have you.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
It's great to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
When you hear the law firm Carlisle, Patchin and Murphy.
What kind of a law firm is it?
Speaker 2 (00:56):
So, we're a full service law firm here in Columbus.
Our roots are in serving business owners and their companies.
But really, if you need any legal service. Then starting
with us is a good place to start.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Let's hear a little bit about your journey. Born and
raised you from here? Where are you from?
Speaker 2 (01:17):
I'm an Ohio girl, but not born and raised in Columbus.
I grew up in Sandusky, Ohio, Oh yeah, and spent
my whole childhood there with my parents, and then came
to Central Ohio for undergrad I went to Dennison and
then went to law school at Ohio State. Went back
to Sandusky for one summer and clerked.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Oh wow.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Decided that I had gotten a little bit too used
to the bigger city and ended up choosing to practice
law here in Columbus.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Was it hard to say goodbye to Cedar Point?
Speaker 2 (01:54):
No? Actually, I'm not a roller coaster enthusiasm.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Oh so you didn't spend a lot of ride with.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Me because I scream the whole ride. There are some
terrible photos of me, you know those like pictures they
take you on ride right, Like the veins are coming
out of my my husband as a favorite that I
do not want him showing anyone, Like the veins are
out of my neck. I look like I'm gonna die. No,
I hate roller coasters. It doesn't matter how many times
you ride them, it doesn't get any better.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
And this is why I asked random questions like that,
because you just never know what's gonna come out.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
I still love going to the park, I just I
have a different experience. I like to go eat the
French Ride.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
Yeah, yeah, exactly, you like the food.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
A few of my old favorite rides, which you know.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Well, can I ask you because you brought up a
really good point about going from a very small area
to you know, a big city. But what was life
growing up and what was it like in Sandusky?
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Quiet? Yeah, I think it's a great It's a great
place to be a kid, right, pretty safe community and
went to Catholic school and just had a pretty simple childhood,
really a great childhood, but very uncomplicated.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
Yeah. Well we'll fast forward a little bit. So when
you decided to come back to Columbus, where was a
moment And maybe it was in college, maybe it was
before that undergrad Where was it that the light bulb
went off about going into law becoming a lawyer?
Speaker 2 (03:25):
So I got closer to the end of my undergrad
time and realized I wasn't quite ready to go into
the workforce, and so like, Okay, what do I do
with my English Literature and economics majors? My parents had
me pick up the ECON major because they really didn't
(03:46):
know what I was going to do with an English
literature major, And so I sat for the LSAT and
ended up looking at law school and it it'd been
good for me, But I don't come from a family
of lawyers. I haven't always wanted to be a Lloyer. Yeah,
just seemed like a good fit.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
Okay, But Jane, you know the l SAT is not
just any ordinary test. I mean, well, I don't have
to tell you. I mean I haven't taken it, but
I know plenty of people that haven't are not lawyers.
But I can tell you just from everything I've read
it I've heard and talked to people. I mean, there's
a lot of prep there. So you you had to
(04:24):
have known a little bit that.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
Okay, this is I didn't do a ton of pride,
a little prep. It's a logic based test.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
Was it hard or just what you just said? It's
just work. It's not easy, but yeah, so it's more
common sense.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
The l SAT. Yeah, I think so.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
I think so is there studying for it? Like the
actor step for it if you want. Does it help?
Speaker 2 (04:49):
Oh? Yeah, Well, practicing for any test I think helps,
just in that you know what the material will be
like and have a feel for the cadence of the exam.
That was old school right, like it was a Retten test,
like you, it takes a written test anymore. And outdating
My Hi kids are always like what the email came
(05:11):
out while you were in school?
Speaker 1 (05:13):
Yes, Jane Marx is with us. She's an attorney with Carlisle,
Patchan and Murphy Law firm here in Columbus Chain. Okay,
so you passed the l SAT.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
Oh I scored well enough to get school.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
So okay. So did you walk out of the l
SAT going I wonder if I passed or did you
feel confident I passed?
Speaker 2 (05:37):
No? I usually know when I finished a test if
I've done okay enough. I feel like I've done okay enough. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
So you landed eventually at Ohio State.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
I did.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
Was that? Was that your first choice? Was that where
you wanted to go?
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Yeah? I knew I would stay in Ohio and so
Ohio Law School has made a lot of sense to me.
And at the time, Ohio State was the best law school.
So it was a pretty easy choice. Yeah, yeah, affordable,
very affordable compared to Dennison. Three years of law school
cost less than one year at Dennison.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
Really well. And I think a lot of people forget
Dennison is private, right.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
Yeah, liberal arts school. I mean, it's just a difference
between right state tuition and and and a liberal arts tuition.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
It sure is pretty over there though that you don't.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
Even feel like you're in Ohio when you're on that campus.
It has as New England feel.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
Can you know. But to be fair with it being
so small, can can a lot of study and get
done at Dennison just out of curiosity, And.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
People work hard and play hard, and those are good
life lesson.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
Good answer, good answer. I can't get you at all.
There are Jane marks on this. So so you you
head into law school. Uh I guess what's the first
thing that that came over you about law school? I
was it easy for you?
Speaker 2 (06:54):
Did it?
Speaker 1 (06:55):
Was it difficult?
Speaker 2 (06:57):
It's school. I've always liked school. I don't know that
I particularly loved law school, but I don't think a
lot of people are going to tell you that they
love law school.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
I loved it, yeah, but.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
You know, you find in class that there are people
who like to hear themselves talk, and so I think
law attracts maybe a certain personality. Sure, So you know,
just kind of wondering where do I fit in right
in a community where where lots of people want to
have the last word.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
And you don't see me like that.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
I found my way, you know. I learned after taking
a pellet advocacy that I didn't really aspire to be
a litigator for a living, right, Yeah, And I think
that's what a lot of people think of when they
think of law, you know, the attorney in the courtroom. Right.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
I'm I was fascinated to learn a while ago chain that.
And I don't know what the percentage is, but I
feel like everyone into quite a few that I was
surprised to see. There are lawyers and a lot of
them that have never litigated.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
Before, correct, And there's all kinds of career paths. I
think it's a super flexible degree. I mean, you can
do anything you want with it. So I started taking
more tax classes, right, and then was able to turn
that into a career and trust and estates.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
Yeah. So when you were coming in on finishing law school,
did you have an idea of what law you wanted
to practice.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
Yeah, I actually was pretty certain that I wanted to
do trust and estates. So when I interviewed, I was
looking for a firm that would train me in that
practice area. What I found is a lot of firms
want their associates to do a rotation so that they
can try out different areas. I think, learn the entire
practice and then pick their niche. But since I knew
(08:45):
I didn't want to be a litigator, I didn't really
want a litigation rotation, And so I had a couple
classmates who had clerked at Carlisle and spoke highly of it,
and it just so happened that the team was hiring
trust an estate's attorney and was willing to train somebody.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
Yeah, Jane, do they make you? Is there a class
that you have to take in law school where they
do make you at one point litigate like a mock litigation?
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Yeah? Yeah, I mean you can do mock trial. I
didn't do that, but the Appella avocacy class that I
talked about, right, we had to to argue one side
of a case in front of a panel of judge. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
Did you like that personally? Or no, but this is
not for me.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
But that's not to say that I don't do hearings. Right.
Probably is a practice where there are frequent hearings, but
it's not necessarily the same, right as what people think
of when they see a trial on TV.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
Right yeah, yeah, So.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
Hearings are comfortable and easy and no big deal.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
But so why why is state planning? Why that? And
not I'll just throw something out corporate attorney or divorce
or you know what I mean, all the others that
I know.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
People will tell me like, oh, probably it's worse than divorce,
but I don't think so. I like people, I like
problem solving, I like knowing that I'm helping someone, and
estate planning provides the opportunity to do all three of
those things. So I spend every day with people, right
(10:22):
yeah yeah, talking about their life stories and understanding their
goals and objectives, and helping them to make sure that
their wishes are ultimately honored and that their legacy is defined.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
What is what do you think I'll get to the
misconception at just a sec But with your law firm,
specifically with Carlisle Patchin and Murphy Jane, what is, especially
with the state planning. What's probably the biggest mistake people
make outside.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
Of waiting waiting, So not doing it is a big mistake.
But I mean, when you look at national status, it
probably fifty percent of adults have some sort of a
state plan in place, and that other fifty percent don't.
But waiting too you can wait too long, you can
be too sick to execute documents.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
Not competent would I But I know people who mom, dad, grandma,
grandpa who are like, oh, I don't need any paperwork.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
I've just when I go, I'm just it's going to
be handed down to you know, junior. But there's a
mistake in doing that, right, What could possibly go wrong
by that?
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Thinking, well, you've got state law for one thing, so
your family dynamic may not match squarely with state law,
so your intended beneficiary may not actually receive the property
based on the way the code is drafted. And you
want your plan to sync up. Yeah, so you want
(11:56):
to make sure that your beneficiary designations and your asset
titling are consistent with your wishes. So if you're not
doing a checkup every now and again to make sure
that everything is in sync, I doubt that your intentions
are going to come to fruition.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
Well, that's scary to think about that. And while I'm
not familiar with Ohio code, what, Jane, what's an example
of something that the state could do or that could
happen if you don't have things in writing.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
If you've been married more than once and you have
children from before the current marriage and even from the
current marriage, right, then your assets split is going to
be different than perhaps you intend. A lot of times
folks want their surviving spouse to receive the whole of
(12:49):
their estate. But in the scenario I just described, there
will be a split between surviving spouse and children.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
And if you don't do the right thing, that could
turn into a really ugly, messy situation.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
I would imagine, Well, spouse may not have enough, you know,
and that will be stressful.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
So is there a go Yeah, to say the least,
But Jane, like, what's is there is there an age? Like,
for example, I've been married almost twenty years. Thanks, thanks,
that's a big deal. We do not. I mean, I
(13:32):
have beneficiaries, I have some documentary.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
That's a start.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Okay, that's a start, But I don't have a will.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
Everybody needs a will. Everybody who's over eighteen needs a will, Okay,
all right. It might be a basic will depending on
you know, your situation, but everybody needs one, and it's
the fallback plan. Right For a lot of my clients,
the goal is that we never need to use the will,
but it's there to facilitate the transfer of assets that
(14:02):
haven't otherwise had a beneficiary attached to them, or that
haven't been titled in such a way that they pass
outside the will.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
Right, yeah, is it a good idea? And I don't
know if your clients ask you about executors of the will,
is it a good idea to have someone that's independent
versus someone that's in the family. Maybe it's the oldest brother,
Maybe it's I don't know, I've always wondered that to
(14:31):
keep maybe to keep the peace, it's someone that's independent.
Maybe it's it's the attorney that oversees the will.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
Sometimes that ends up being the case. Usually there's a
family member or a close friend who's appropriately situated to
do the job. It really depends on the family dynamic.
In some families, a child is perfectly well suited to
facilitate the administration of the estate, and for a lot
(14:58):
of my clients trust in other families. A neutral party
is a better selection. So that's a piece of what
we're talking about as we're counseling on the topic.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
Well, when you have these meetings, do you do you
ask them about the relationships and the dynamic, like just
to figure out, Okay, does this family get along or
they really just.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
Now I need to know because if there are special circumstances,
we need to draft to address those special circumstances, and
eventually people would become comfortable enough to share. I mean,
the nice part about having a meeting with an attorney
is the conversation is confidential. So yeah, I think once
(15:43):
folks get comfortable with that, we can really get into
what the anticipated friction points might be.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
Yeah. Jane Mars is with us who is an attorney
at Carlisle, Patchen and Murphy. She's this week's guest on
CEO You Should Know and iHeart Media Columbus podcast. Jane,
Let's say I come to you, which I'm actually seriously
thinking about doing because of my will. Will I come
to you at forty nine I get a will and
(16:12):
my assets all laid out, But I'm thinking that in
the next ten years, things are probably going to change.
Do you have those clients come back to you frequently
to update things? And how often?
Speaker 2 (16:25):
So I really want clients to take a hard look
once a decade. Okay, we might one hundred percent refresh
the plan once a decade. So when we sit down
to plan, I suggest to people that were looking at
a ten year time horizon, because to try to plan
for longer is too difficult, and it build the documents
(16:47):
to last. Right if we did yours for you at
forty nine and you passed at one hundred and one
and you never touched them again, they'll be honored, but
they might not match your situation anymore. And that's the problem.
So we have you have a system where we'll remind
clients about every three years. Hey, it's been three years
since you last looked at the documents, you know, just
(17:08):
take a look and let us know if you want
to make any changes. People. We're swapping out people more
frequently than anything, either because you know, life happened and
somebody has passed on or a relationship has changed.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
Do Jane, do you also do I'm assuming you do.
Do you do trusts as well? You form trusts? Oh? Yeah,
frequently trust to me and I'm on the outside, but
I'm looking across from me at the expert is a
trust seems like a really smart thing to do? Is
there any time where it's probably not a good idea?
Speaker 2 (17:42):
So a trust at its most basic level is a
contract between you and your trustee, right, And so we
just want to make sure that the size of the
estate warrants a use of a trust. There are times
where the assets aren't sufficient enough for the trust to
really makes sense. State law allows for small trust termination
(18:05):
and for good reasons. So we just want to make
sure that there's enough money there to make the administrative
cost of running the trust makes sense. For most clients,
it's a good choice. Right, They'll have some life insurance
provided by an employer, you know, maybe a house, maybe
some retirement savings. I mean, by the time you just
(18:27):
put those three on a personal financial statement, you know,
the trust makes sense. And then if you're planning for
young beneficiaries, it's a better tool as well. So under
state law, maybe the longest you can delay distribution to
a minor is age twenty five, and that's only if
(18:47):
you invoke the Ohio Transfers to Minor Act. Which is
just a provision in the code that allows for a
little bit of a delay. Otherwise, when the miner becomes
of age, was is eighteen in Ohio, they're entitled to
their inheritance. In a lot of my clients' situations, that's
too much money for an eighteen year old to receive.
So the trust right right, the settler or the creator
(19:10):
of the trust the flexibility to decide when their beneficiaries
are mature enough to receive the funds or maybe never
right in some instances, we want to hold that money
and trust because it provides credit or protection and sometimes
divorce protection.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
Wow, you just a light bulb just went off of
my head, which I know is kind of scary. But
one thing I wanted to ask you is, so, for example,
with my three children, they all have five twenty nines,
they all have they have an investment account, they have
a savings account, all of that. You know, Dad goes without.
(19:48):
I don't really, I don't have any toys, everything. Pretty much,
I put that, I just want to make sure that
they're set. Ye, so do I you know, eventually those
accounts have accumulated quite some money. Do I want that
in some type of a trust because otherwise at eighteen,
they'll be able to get it. And I would agree
that's too much money.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
So the five twenty nines are unique in that you
can designate a successor account owner, so presumably you're presently
the account owners, so you can buy way of a
contract slot in another person of your choosing to run
those accounts, so they won't necessarily the kids won't necessarily
be in control of their own five twenty nine when
(20:28):
you pass as to the rest of the assets. If
they are direct beneficiaries, then yes, they show up and
claim the account, I walk away with the money.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
Yeah, I better do something about that because I don't
trust them. So but oh, okay, okay, you got it.
Um let me just put right there. I'm gonna say
twenty one. Okay, sorry about that, naturally you do, all right,
it's not bothering me. So Jane, what about some of
(20:58):
the other services that you at your law firm?
Speaker 2 (21:01):
So we have a litigation department, So for clients who
find themselves being sued or who need to sue to
resolve situation, then we have a team who can help
them do that. We also have a business department, so
(21:22):
if you're looking to start a company, or have you know,
contracts that need to be drafted while you're running the company,
or you get to the point in time where you're
ready to sell the company. We have an entire team
that can handle that. We run a title company and
we have a strong real estate group. We also have
(21:42):
a creditors rights department that does some collection work. And
that's tax, right. I guess I'm not mentioning tax, but
really tax deserves a mention all by itself.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
What, Jane, what would you say is your biggest un
the unit that gets the most business for I think.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
The way that our business breaks out, it's almost equal.
And you know, it probably depends on the year and
what's happening with any particular clients during that year. Do
we have a lot of deals that are closing for
the business team, and if we do, maybe they're having
(22:25):
a little bit more you know, business attributed to them
at the end of the year. Our family wealth and
a state planning team is strong. There's thirteen of us,
so that's been a very good practice for us. And
then you know litigation, so about a third a third
a third, But again, okay, it's it's not just kind
(22:46):
of depends on what you know, what our clients have
going on.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
Jane, forgive me. There was one other question I had
about the estate planning and the trust. Yeah, I've always
heard that if you put your home in a trust,
maybe it depends on the state, but it protects you
from being sued in a way that they couldn't take
the house. Is that true?
Speaker 2 (23:10):
If somebody else sets a trust up for you and
leaves you real estate, then that would be true. Ohio
does have a specific body of law that would allow
you to self settle a trust for asset protection, but
your general, run of the mill, revocable living trust will
(23:34):
not protect your home that you live in Okay from creditors.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
So, in other words, I'm in a business where I
don't know, it's risky and people can get sued all
the time. So I want to put my home in
a trust so I can protect it from anyone trying
to get it. But that's not true. That's not exactly
how it works, not unless someone can still try and.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
Get unless you avail yourself for the Ohio Legacy Trust Act,
which you're probably not gonna want to do because it sounds.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
Like a lot of work.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
There are some restrictions on your control over and access
to the assets in the trust. So theoretically possible, right,
is it practical? That's what I've time a lot of
times talking with clients about here's what's possible. Is it
practical for you?
Speaker 1 (24:26):
Yeah? Yeah. By the way you talked about people earlier,
what do you love about what you do in your
law firm and being an attorney?
Speaker 2 (24:36):
It's rewarding. I enjoy problem solving. I enjoy helping people
have peace of mind. Almost every time we finished in
a state plan, the client says, I feel so much better.
Almost every single time, I feel so much better. Like
that feels.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
Good, Yeah, Jane. One thing I like to do too
is pull back the current a little bit on our guests.
And for you, I know you said you're married, you
have kids as well.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
I have two boys.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
Two boys. How old?
Speaker 2 (25:08):
Sixth grade and eighth grade.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
Ah, that's that's a good age. That's a very good
age years a fine. So in the community, what kind
of things you involved in?
Speaker 2 (25:21):
Well, I have been involved in youth sports through the
boys' school. So when they were running cross country, I
helped coach cross country.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
Oh wow, I was in cross country.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
In a cross country in junior high and high school.
I also have coached our youngest son's basketball team. So
I coached the fourth grade, fifth grade, and this year.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
So did you play basketball growing up?
Speaker 2 (25:44):
I did. I did not in college, but again in
junior high and high school.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
Yeah, it's just fun.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
Kids have a lot of great energy, and Adam's team
is particularly athletics, so they've had a lot of success.
So it's just done good to be at that.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
I admire you and anyone that does coaching like that,
because one I'd like to try it, but I'm always
afraid I'm going to get the crazy parent that comes
up and wants to yell at me.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
Our parents are wonderful, truly wonderful, and I have not
had any issues other coaches. Well I can't say that
that's the case, but.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
You made a little hard to control.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
These other coaches or rents are very supportive, very supportive,
but I'm clear about expectations at the outset. Everybody every
year signs off on a code of conduct, and yeah,
you know, I make it known what behavior right and
engagement is required to be on the team.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
I like that, Jane. What is something whether it's at
the law firm or just in life. What's something that
upsets you like with you? What's something people do that
you you just you're not you're not digging.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
I don't like dishonesty. That's a big deal for me,
and I'm not particularly interested in helping clients who want
to resolve a situation as a result of dishonesty other
than that, you know, is that something that I'm you know,
(27:28):
it's a free country, right, as long as you're living
by your own code and you're happy and you're not
bothering anybody else.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
Sure, Yeah, have you had a client before? Can you?
And I'm not saying name specifics or anything, but have
you have you had a situation where you could you
detected dishonesty and then what do you do?
Speaker 2 (27:51):
Well, you have to call it out right.
Speaker 1 (27:55):
It's it's more comfortable.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
Troublesome in in the litigation context than really in what
I do for a living, Right, I am not going
to misrepresent something on behalf of client. So yeah, it's
pretty easy to ferret that out. If you spend enough
time with somebody, right and you're really digging into the details,
(28:21):
it'll eventually come out that something isn't quite squaring.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
Yeah, your children do they try to get anything past you?
Speaker 2 (28:29):
Oh? They're kids, right, and their boys rarely do. I'm
a details person, so like I know if something's been
moved or if something's been messed with. Now, it's pretty hard,
but you're not paying attention exactly, always paying attention.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
Also, before we, uh, we wrap up too, you are
involved in in your churches. Why. I always like to
hear that that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
Yeah, yeah, So the kids are at Catholic school. I
went to Catholic school. I mentioned that, you know, part
of being a part of any community is anticipating right,
participation is expected. So I serve on the Home and
School Association, which is our equivalent of the PTA, and
help raise money for the school and help make sure
(29:19):
we have volunteers and all the places where we need them,
and then elect her at church.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
So you are very busy. I like to be busy.
Get nothing wrong with being busy.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
I'm happy when I'm busy, and I don't need a
lot of sleep, so that helps too.
Speaker 1 (29:34):
Wait, how much sleep do you get?
Speaker 3 (29:35):
Well?
Speaker 2 (29:36):
Now my doctor might be listening.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
I can tell you my family doctor. Every year she'll
ask me, okay, what kind of sleep you're getting in
five hours six hours. You need more than that, you
need between seven and nine. I'm like, do you get
seven to nine?
Speaker 2 (29:53):
Well no, well right, no, no, no. I had to
promise that I would be getting a five hours minimum,
you know.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
But but you can go on. You can go on
a smaller amount than even five hours.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
I can't. I mean, I'm trying to amaze, try not to.
But my best time for working sometimes is like eleven
to two. I'm not a morning person.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
Not.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
Oh I'm not the first person in the office never.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
Okay, No, so you're a night out.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
It's not a good it's not a good day when
I have to be the first person in the office.
Well I am a night out.
Speaker 1 (30:28):
Yeah, I'm amazed because here we had you come in
even earlier and you made it. You're happy, go lucky.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
It's all good to.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
Be a to be a fly on the wall. When
you got that message. Wait, I got to be there earlier.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
I'm going earlier. Oh boy, that's only thirty minutes.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
Well, we're grateful to have you here, and especially Jane
teaching us a little bit about your world though with
estate planning and hey, real quick, the family health. Is
that also in the with what you do with the
state planning? Or is that something completely separate with what
you do?
Speaker 2 (31:07):
It ties in and is related. So for some clients,
their wealth will it is sufficient enough that it will
be generational, right, so we're helping them plan for the
efficient transfer of that wealth from one generation to the next.
And really, how do you preserve and protect the wealth,
and how do you communicate the family's values around wealth?
(31:33):
And so you know, for some clients that's that's an
important piece of estate planning.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
I bet, I bet you hear it all, don't you?
With the state planning?
Speaker 2 (31:45):
Oh yeah, it's rare that somebody tells me something that
I haven't heard before. But you can't beat real life either, right,
I mean when I am shocked, it's like, oh my goodness,
I couldn't have ever dreamed that.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
Would we be surprised, Jane? And I promise we'll wrap
it up here, but I'm just so fascinated by with
what you do. Would we be surprised that how many
people will call you or have a meeting with you
and say I want so and so out of the wheel,
I want anything like that. I mean, it sounds so cool.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
But it's really not as frequent as one would think. Okay,
be nice to elder statesman. You don't want to give
them a reason to rethink they're estate plan.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
I'm going to write that down. That's great. Jane Mark,
who's an attorney with Carlisle, Patchen and Murphy. Really appreciate
your time and thank you for being a guest this
week on CEOs You Should Know. Appreciate your time.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
Thanks for having me. It was fun.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
CEOs You Should Know is hosted and produced by Brandon Boxer,
a production of iHeartMedia, Columbus
Columbus in Central Ohio have a rich history of companies
being headquartered here, everything from technology, manufacturing, retail, insurance, and more.
But what about the leaders behind these companies? What makes
them tick? How do they get their start? This is
where you get to meet the captain of the ship.
Welcome to CEOs You Should Know and iHeartMedia Columbus Podcast.
Welcome back to another episode of CEOs You Should Know.
(00:23):
This is an iHeartMedia Columbus podcast. This is where we
get to explore and dive into some of the who's
who of Columbus as far as the leaders go, and
just so many different industries. And today it's all about
law and some of the various law firms that are
around town. Specifically, our guest today is Jane Higgins Marx,
(00:44):
who joint or is with the Carlisle, Patchan and Murphy
Law firm. Jane, good to have you.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
It's great to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
When you hear the law firm Carlisle, Patchin and Murphy.
What kind of a law firm is it?
Speaker 2 (00:56):
So, we're a full service law firm here in Columbus.
Our roots are in serving business owners and their companies.
But really, if you need any legal service. Then starting
with us is a good place to start.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Let's hear a little bit about your journey. Born and
raised you from here? Where are you from?
Speaker 2 (01:17):
I'm an Ohio girl, but not born and raised in Columbus.
I grew up in Sandusky, Ohio, Oh yeah, and spent
my whole childhood there with my parents, and then came
to Central Ohio for undergrad I went to Dennison and
then went to law school at Ohio State. Went back
to Sandusky for one summer and clerked.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Oh wow.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Decided that I had gotten a little bit too used
to the bigger city and ended up choosing to practice
law here in Columbus.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Was it hard to say goodbye to Cedar Point?
Speaker 2 (01:54):
No? Actually, I'm not a roller coaster enthusiasm.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Oh so you didn't spend a lot of ride with.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Me because I scream the whole ride. There are some
terrible photos of me, you know those like pictures they
take you on ride right, Like the veins are coming
out of my my husband as a favorite that I
do not want him showing anyone, Like the veins are
out of my neck. I look like I'm gonna die. No,
I hate roller coasters. It doesn't matter how many times
you ride them, it doesn't get any better.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
And this is why I asked random questions like that,
because you just never know what's gonna come out.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
I still love going to the park, I just I
have a different experience. I like to go eat the
French Ride.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
Yeah, yeah, exactly, you like the food.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
A few of my old favorite rides, which you know.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Well, can I ask you because you brought up a
really good point about going from a very small area
to you know, a big city. But what was life
growing up and what was it like in Sandusky?
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Quiet? Yeah, I think it's a great It's a great
place to be a kid, right, pretty safe community and
went to Catholic school and just had a pretty simple childhood,
really a great childhood, but very uncomplicated.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
Yeah. Well we'll fast forward a little bit. So when
you decided to come back to Columbus, where was a
moment And maybe it was in college, maybe it was
before that undergrad Where was it that the light bulb
went off about going into law becoming a lawyer?
Speaker 2 (03:25):
So I got closer to the end of my undergrad
time and realized I wasn't quite ready to go into
the workforce, and so like, Okay, what do I do
with my English Literature and economics majors? My parents had
me pick up the ECON major because they really didn't
(03:46):
know what I was going to do with an English
literature major, And so I sat for the LSAT and
ended up looking at law school and it it'd been
good for me, But I don't come from a family
of lawyers. I haven't always wanted to be a Lloyer. Yeah,
just seemed like a good fit.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
Okay, But Jane, you know the l SAT is not
just any ordinary test. I mean, well, I don't have
to tell you. I mean I haven't taken it, but
I know plenty of people that haven't are not lawyers.
But I can tell you just from everything I've read
it I've heard and talked to people. I mean, there's
a lot of prep there. So you you had to
(04:24):
have known a little bit that.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
Okay, this is I didn't do a ton of pride,
a little prep. It's a logic based test.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
Was it hard or just what you just said? It's
just work. It's not easy, but yeah, so it's more
common sense.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
The l SAT. Yeah, I think so.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
I think so is there studying for it? Like the
actor step for it if you want. Does it help?
Speaker 2 (04:49):
Oh? Yeah, Well, practicing for any test I think helps,
just in that you know what the material will be
like and have a feel for the cadence of the exam.
That was old school right, like it was a Retten test,
like you, it takes a written test anymore. And outdating
My Hi kids are always like what the email came
(05:11):
out while you were in school?
Speaker 1 (05:13):
Yes, Jane Marx is with us. She's an attorney with Carlisle,
Patchan and Murphy Law firm here in Columbus Chain. Okay,
so you passed the l SAT.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
Oh I scored well enough to get school.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
So okay. So did you walk out of the l
SAT going I wonder if I passed or did you
feel confident I passed?
Speaker 2 (05:37):
No? I usually know when I finished a test if
I've done okay enough. I feel like I've done okay enough. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
So you landed eventually at Ohio State.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
I did.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
Was that? Was that your first choice? Was that where
you wanted to go?
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Yeah? I knew I would stay in Ohio and so
Ohio Law School has made a lot of sense to me.
And at the time, Ohio State was the best law school.
So it was a pretty easy choice. Yeah, yeah, affordable,
very affordable compared to Dennison. Three years of law school
cost less than one year at Dennison.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
Really well. And I think a lot of people forget
Dennison is private, right.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
Yeah, liberal arts school. I mean, it's just a difference
between right state tuition and and and a liberal arts tuition.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
It sure is pretty over there though that you don't.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
Even feel like you're in Ohio when you're on that campus.
It has as New England feel.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
Can you know. But to be fair with it being
so small, can can a lot of study and get
done at Dennison just out of curiosity, And.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
People work hard and play hard, and those are good
life lesson.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
Good answer, good answer. I can't get you at all.
There are Jane marks on this. So so you you
head into law school. Uh I guess what's the first
thing that that came over you about law school? I
was it easy for you?
Speaker 2 (06:54):
Did it?
Speaker 1 (06:55):
Was it difficult?
Speaker 2 (06:57):
It's school. I've always liked school. I don't know that
I particularly loved law school, but I don't think a
lot of people are going to tell you that they
love law school.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
I loved it, yeah, but.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
You know, you find in class that there are people
who like to hear themselves talk, and so I think
law attracts maybe a certain personality. Sure, So you know,
just kind of wondering where do I fit in right
in a community where where lots of people want to
have the last word.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
And you don't see me like that.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
I found my way, you know. I learned after taking
a pellet advocacy that I didn't really aspire to be
a litigator for a living, right, Yeah, And I think
that's what a lot of people think of when they
think of law, you know, the attorney in the courtroom. Right.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
I'm I was fascinated to learn a while ago chain that.
And I don't know what the percentage is, but I
feel like everyone into quite a few that I was
surprised to see. There are lawyers and a lot of
them that have never litigated.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
Before, correct, And there's all kinds of career paths. I
think it's a super flexible degree. I mean, you can
do anything you want with it. So I started taking
more tax classes, right, and then was able to turn
that into a career and trust and estates.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
Yeah. So when you were coming in on finishing law school,
did you have an idea of what law you wanted
to practice.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
Yeah, I actually was pretty certain that I wanted to
do trust and estates. So when I interviewed, I was
looking for a firm that would train me in that
practice area. What I found is a lot of firms
want their associates to do a rotation so that they
can try out different areas. I think, learn the entire
practice and then pick their niche. But since I knew
(08:45):
I didn't want to be a litigator, I didn't really
want a litigation rotation, And so I had a couple
classmates who had clerked at Carlisle and spoke highly of it,
and it just so happened that the team was hiring
trust an estate's attorney and was willing to train somebody.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
Yeah, Jane, do they make you? Is there a class
that you have to take in law school where they
do make you at one point litigate like a mock litigation?
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Yeah? Yeah, I mean you can do mock trial. I
didn't do that, but the Appella avocacy class that I
talked about, right, we had to to argue one side
of a case in front of a panel of judge. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
Did you like that personally? Or no, but this is
not for me.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
But that's not to say that I don't do hearings. Right.
Probably is a practice where there are frequent hearings, but
it's not necessarily the same, right as what people think
of when they see a trial on TV.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
Right yeah, yeah, So.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
Hearings are comfortable and easy and no big deal.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
But so why why is state planning? Why that? And
not I'll just throw something out corporate attorney or divorce
or you know what I mean, all the others that
I know.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
People will tell me like, oh, probably it's worse than divorce,
but I don't think so. I like people, I like
problem solving, I like knowing that I'm helping someone, and
estate planning provides the opportunity to do all three of
those things. So I spend every day with people, right
(10:22):
yeah yeah, talking about their life stories and understanding their
goals and objectives, and helping them to make sure that
their wishes are ultimately honored and that their legacy is defined.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
What is what do you think I'll get to the
misconception at just a sec But with your law firm,
specifically with Carlisle Patchin and Murphy Jane, what is, especially
with the state planning. What's probably the biggest mistake people
make outside.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
Of waiting waiting, So not doing it is a big mistake.
But I mean, when you look at national status, it
probably fifty percent of adults have some sort of a
state plan in place, and that other fifty percent don't.
But waiting too you can wait too long, you can
be too sick to execute documents.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
Not competent would I But I know people who mom, dad, grandma,
grandpa who are like, oh, I don't need any paperwork.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
I've just when I go, I'm just it's going to
be handed down to you know, junior. But there's a
mistake in doing that, right, What could possibly go wrong
by that?
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Thinking, well, you've got state law for one thing, so
your family dynamic may not match squarely with state law,
so your intended beneficiary may not actually receive the property
based on the way the code is drafted. And you
want your plan to sync up. Yeah, so you want
(11:56):
to make sure that your beneficiary designations and your asset
titling are consistent with your wishes. So if you're not
doing a checkup every now and again to make sure
that everything is in sync, I doubt that your intentions
are going to come to fruition.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
Well, that's scary to think about that. And while I'm
not familiar with Ohio code, what, Jane, what's an example
of something that the state could do or that could
happen if you don't have things in writing.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
If you've been married more than once and you have
children from before the current marriage and even from the
current marriage, right, then your assets split is going to
be different than perhaps you intend. A lot of times
folks want their surviving spouse to receive the whole of
(12:49):
their estate. But in the scenario I just described, there
will be a split between surviving spouse and children.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
And if you don't do the right thing, that could
turn into a really ugly, messy situation.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
I would imagine, Well, spouse may not have enough, you know,
and that will be stressful.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
So is there a go Yeah, to say the least,
But Jane, like, what's is there is there an age? Like,
for example, I've been married almost twenty years. Thanks, thanks,
that's a big deal. We do not. I mean, I
(13:32):
have beneficiaries, I have some documentary.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
That's a start.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Okay, that's a start, But I don't have a will.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
Everybody needs a will. Everybody who's over eighteen needs a will, Okay,
all right. It might be a basic will depending on
you know, your situation, but everybody needs one, and it's
the fallback plan. Right For a lot of my clients,
the goal is that we never need to use the will,
but it's there to facilitate the transfer of assets that
(14:02):
haven't otherwise had a beneficiary attached to them, or that
haven't been titled in such a way that they pass
outside the will.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
Right, yeah, is it a good idea? And I don't
know if your clients ask you about executors of the will,
is it a good idea to have someone that's independent
versus someone that's in the family. Maybe it's the oldest brother,
Maybe it's I don't know, I've always wondered that to
(14:31):
keep maybe to keep the peace, it's someone that's independent.
Maybe it's it's the attorney that oversees the will.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
Sometimes that ends up being the case. Usually there's a
family member or a close friend who's appropriately situated to
do the job. It really depends on the family dynamic.
In some families, a child is perfectly well suited to
facilitate the administration of the estate, and for a lot
(14:58):
of my clients trust in other families. A neutral party
is a better selection. So that's a piece of what
we're talking about as we're counseling on the topic.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
Well, when you have these meetings, do you do you
ask them about the relationships and the dynamic, like just
to figure out, Okay, does this family get along or
they really just.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
Now I need to know because if there are special circumstances,
we need to draft to address those special circumstances, and
eventually people would become comfortable enough to share. I mean,
the nice part about having a meeting with an attorney
is the conversation is confidential. So yeah, I think once
(15:43):
folks get comfortable with that, we can really get into
what the anticipated friction points might be.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
Yeah. Jane Mars is with us who is an attorney
at Carlisle, Patchen and Murphy. She's this week's guest on
CEO You Should Know and iHeart Media Columbus podcast. Jane,
Let's say I come to you, which I'm actually seriously
thinking about doing because of my will. Will I come
to you at forty nine I get a will and
(16:12):
my assets all laid out, But I'm thinking that in
the next ten years, things are probably going to change.
Do you have those clients come back to you frequently
to update things? And how often?
Speaker 2 (16:25):
So I really want clients to take a hard look
once a decade. Okay, we might one hundred percent refresh
the plan once a decade. So when we sit down
to plan, I suggest to people that were looking at
a ten year time horizon, because to try to plan
for longer is too difficult, and it build the documents
(16:47):
to last. Right if we did yours for you at
forty nine and you passed at one hundred and one
and you never touched them again, they'll be honored, but
they might not match your situation anymore. And that's the problem.
So we have you have a system where we'll remind
clients about every three years. Hey, it's been three years
since you last looked at the documents, you know, just
(17:08):
take a look and let us know if you want
to make any changes. People. We're swapping out people more
frequently than anything, either because you know, life happened and
somebody has passed on or a relationship has changed.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
Do Jane, do you also do I'm assuming you do.
Do you do trusts as well? You form trusts? Oh? Yeah,
frequently trust to me and I'm on the outside, but
I'm looking across from me at the expert is a
trust seems like a really smart thing to do? Is
there any time where it's probably not a good idea?
Speaker 2 (17:42):
So a trust at its most basic level is a
contract between you and your trustee, right, And so we
just want to make sure that the size of the
estate warrants a use of a trust. There are times
where the assets aren't sufficient enough for the trust to
really makes sense. State law allows for small trust termination
(18:05):
and for good reasons. So we just want to make
sure that there's enough money there to make the administrative
cost of running the trust makes sense. For most clients,
it's a good choice. Right, They'll have some life insurance
provided by an employer, you know, maybe a house, maybe
some retirement savings. I mean, by the time you just
(18:27):
put those three on a personal financial statement, you know,
the trust makes sense. And then if you're planning for
young beneficiaries, it's a better tool as well. So under
state law, maybe the longest you can delay distribution to
a minor is age twenty five, and that's only if
(18:47):
you invoke the Ohio Transfers to Minor Act. Which is
just a provision in the code that allows for a
little bit of a delay. Otherwise, when the miner becomes
of age, was is eighteen in Ohio, they're entitled to
their inheritance. In a lot of my clients' situations, that's
too much money for an eighteen year old to receive.
So the trust right right, the settler or the creator
(19:10):
of the trust the flexibility to decide when their beneficiaries
are mature enough to receive the funds or maybe never
right in some instances, we want to hold that money
and trust because it provides credit or protection and sometimes
divorce protection.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
Wow, you just a light bulb just went off of
my head, which I know is kind of scary. But
one thing I wanted to ask you is, so, for example,
with my three children, they all have five twenty nines,
they all have they have an investment account, they have
a savings account, all of that. You know, Dad goes without.
(19:48):
I don't really, I don't have any toys, everything. Pretty much,
I put that, I just want to make sure that
they're set. Ye, so do I you know, eventually those
accounts have accumulated quite some money. Do I want that
in some type of a trust because otherwise at eighteen,
they'll be able to get it. And I would agree
that's too much money.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
So the five twenty nines are unique in that you
can designate a successor account owner, so presumably you're presently
the account owners, so you can buy way of a
contract slot in another person of your choosing to run
those accounts, so they won't necessarily the kids won't necessarily
be in control of their own five twenty nine when
(20:28):
you pass as to the rest of the assets. If
they are direct beneficiaries, then yes, they show up and
claim the account, I walk away with the money.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
Yeah, I better do something about that because I don't
trust them. So but oh, okay, okay, you got it.
Um let me just put right there. I'm gonna say
twenty one. Okay, sorry about that, naturally you do, all right,
it's not bothering me. So Jane, what about some of
(20:58):
the other services that you at your law firm?
Speaker 2 (21:01):
So we have a litigation department, So for clients who
find themselves being sued or who need to sue to
resolve situation, then we have a team who can help
them do that. We also have a business department, so
(21:22):
if you're looking to start a company, or have you know,
contracts that need to be drafted while you're running the company,
or you get to the point in time where you're
ready to sell the company. We have an entire team
that can handle that. We run a title company and
we have a strong real estate group. We also have
(21:42):
a creditors rights department that does some collection work. And
that's tax, right. I guess I'm not mentioning tax, but
really tax deserves a mention all by itself.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
What, Jane, what would you say is your biggest un
the unit that gets the most business for I think.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
The way that our business breaks out, it's almost equal.
And you know, it probably depends on the year and
what's happening with any particular clients during that year. Do
we have a lot of deals that are closing for
the business team, and if we do, maybe they're having
(22:25):
a little bit more you know, business attributed to them
at the end of the year. Our family wealth and
a state planning team is strong. There's thirteen of us,
so that's been a very good practice for us. And
then you know litigation, so about a third a third
a third, But again, okay, it's it's not just kind
(22:46):
of depends on what you know, what our clients have
going on.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
Jane, forgive me. There was one other question I had
about the estate planning and the trust. Yeah, I've always
heard that if you put your home in a trust,
maybe it depends on the state, but it protects you
from being sued in a way that they couldn't take
the house. Is that true?
Speaker 2 (23:10):
If somebody else sets a trust up for you and
leaves you real estate, then that would be true. Ohio
does have a specific body of law that would allow
you to self settle a trust for asset protection, but
your general, run of the mill, revocable living trust will
(23:34):
not protect your home that you live in Okay from creditors.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
So, in other words, I'm in a business where I
don't know, it's risky and people can get sued all
the time. So I want to put my home in
a trust so I can protect it from anyone trying
to get it. But that's not true. That's not exactly
how it works, not unless someone can still try and.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
Get unless you avail yourself for the Ohio Legacy Trust Act,
which you're probably not gonna want to do because it sounds.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
Like a lot of work.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
There are some restrictions on your control over and access
to the assets in the trust. So theoretically possible, right,
is it practical? That's what I've time a lot of
times talking with clients about here's what's possible. Is it
practical for you?
Speaker 1 (24:26):
Yeah? Yeah. By the way you talked about people earlier,
what do you love about what you do in your
law firm and being an attorney?
Speaker 2 (24:36):
It's rewarding. I enjoy problem solving. I enjoy helping people
have peace of mind. Almost every time we finished in
a state plan, the client says, I feel so much better.
Almost every single time, I feel so much better. Like
that feels.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
Good, Yeah, Jane. One thing I like to do too
is pull back the current a little bit on our guests.
And for you, I know you said you're married, you
have kids as well.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
I have two boys.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
Two boys. How old?
Speaker 2 (25:08):
Sixth grade and eighth grade.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
Ah, that's that's a good age. That's a very good
age years a fine. So in the community, what kind
of things you involved in?
Speaker 2 (25:21):
Well, I have been involved in youth sports through the
boys' school. So when they were running cross country, I
helped coach cross country.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
Oh wow, I was in cross country.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
In a cross country in junior high and high school.
I also have coached our youngest son's basketball team. So
I coached the fourth grade, fifth grade, and this year.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
So did you play basketball growing up?
Speaker 2 (25:44):
I did. I did not in college, but again in
junior high and high school.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
Yeah, it's just fun.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
Kids have a lot of great energy, and Adam's team
is particularly athletics, so they've had a lot of success.
So it's just done good to be at that.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
I admire you and anyone that does coaching like that,
because one I'd like to try it, but I'm always
afraid I'm going to get the crazy parent that comes
up and wants to yell at me.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
Our parents are wonderful, truly wonderful, and I have not
had any issues other coaches. Well I can't say that
that's the case, but.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
You made a little hard to control.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
These other coaches or rents are very supportive, very supportive,
but I'm clear about expectations at the outset. Everybody every
year signs off on a code of conduct, and yeah,
you know, I make it known what behavior right and
engagement is required to be on the team.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
I like that, Jane. What is something whether it's at
the law firm or just in life. What's something that
upsets you like with you? What's something people do that
you you just you're not you're not digging.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
I don't like dishonesty. That's a big deal for me,
and I'm not particularly interested in helping clients who want
to resolve a situation as a result of dishonesty other
than that, you know, is that something that I'm you know,
(27:28):
it's a free country, right, as long as you're living
by your own code and you're happy and you're not
bothering anybody else.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
Sure, Yeah, have you had a client before? Can you?
And I'm not saying name specifics or anything, but have
you have you had a situation where you could you
detected dishonesty and then what do you do?
Speaker 2 (27:51):
Well, you have to call it out right.
Speaker 1 (27:55):
It's it's more comfortable.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
Troublesome in in the litigation context than really in what
I do for a living, Right, I am not going
to misrepresent something on behalf of client. So yeah, it's
pretty easy to ferret that out. If you spend enough
time with somebody, right and you're really digging into the details,
(28:21):
it'll eventually come out that something isn't quite squaring.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
Yeah, your children do they try to get anything past you?
Speaker 2 (28:29):
Oh? They're kids, right, and their boys rarely do. I'm
a details person, so like I know if something's been
moved or if something's been messed with. Now, it's pretty hard,
but you're not paying attention exactly, always paying attention.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
Also, before we, uh, we wrap up too, you are
involved in in your churches. Why. I always like to
hear that that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
Yeah, yeah, So the kids are at Catholic school. I
went to Catholic school. I mentioned that, you know, part
of being a part of any community is anticipating right,
participation is expected. So I serve on the Home and
School Association, which is our equivalent of the PTA, and
help raise money for the school and help make sure
(29:19):
we have volunteers and all the places where we need them,
and then elect her at church.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
So you are very busy. I like to be busy.
Get nothing wrong with being busy.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
I'm happy when I'm busy, and I don't need a
lot of sleep, so that helps too.
Speaker 1 (29:34):
Wait, how much sleep do you get?
Speaker 3 (29:35):
Well?
Speaker 2 (29:36):
Now my doctor might be listening.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
I can tell you my family doctor. Every year she'll
ask me, okay, what kind of sleep you're getting in
five hours six hours. You need more than that, you
need between seven and nine. I'm like, do you get
seven to nine?
Speaker 2 (29:53):
Well no, well right, no, no, no. I had to
promise that I would be getting a five hours minimum,
you know.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
But but you can go on. You can go on
a smaller amount than even five hours.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
I can't. I mean, I'm trying to amaze, try not to.
But my best time for working sometimes is like eleven
to two. I'm not a morning person.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
Not.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
Oh I'm not the first person in the office never.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
Okay, No, so you're a night out.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
It's not a good it's not a good day when
I have to be the first person in the office.
Well I am a night out.
Speaker 1 (30:28):
Yeah, I'm amazed because here we had you come in
even earlier and you made it. You're happy, go lucky.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
It's all good to.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
Be a to be a fly on the wall. When
you got that message. Wait, I got to be there earlier.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
I'm going earlier. Oh boy, that's only thirty minutes.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
Well, we're grateful to have you here, and especially Jane
teaching us a little bit about your world though with
estate planning and hey, real quick, the family health. Is
that also in the with what you do with the
state planning? Or is that something completely separate with what
you do?
Speaker 2 (31:07):
It ties in and is related. So for some clients,
their wealth will it is sufficient enough that it will
be generational, right, so we're helping them plan for the
efficient transfer of that wealth from one generation to the next.
And really, how do you preserve and protect the wealth,
and how do you communicate the family's values around wealth?
(31:33):
And so you know, for some clients that's that's an
important piece of estate planning.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
I bet, I bet you hear it all, don't you?
With the state planning?
Speaker 2 (31:45):
Oh yeah, it's rare that somebody tells me something that
I haven't heard before. But you can't beat real life either, right,
I mean when I am shocked, it's like, oh my goodness,
I couldn't have ever dreamed that.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
Would we be surprised, Jane? And I promise we'll wrap
it up here, but I'm just so fascinated by with
what you do. Would we be surprised that how many
people will call you or have a meeting with you
and say I want so and so out of the wheel,
I want anything like that. I mean, it sounds so cool.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
But it's really not as frequent as one would think. Okay,
be nice to elder statesman. You don't want to give
them a reason to rethink they're estate plan.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
I'm going to write that down. That's great. Jane Mark,
who's an attorney with Carlisle, Patchen and Murphy. Really appreciate
your time and thank you for being a guest this
week on CEOs You Should Know. Appreciate your time.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
Thanks for having me. It was fun.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
CEOs You Should Know is hosted and produced by Brandon Boxer,
a production of iHeartMedia, Columbus
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