March 7, 2024 • 39 mins
Spencer Graves sits down with MLF Bass Pro Tour angler, Ryan Salzman and multi tournament winner on Guntersville, Hayden Marbut. Forward Facing Sonar is ruining competitive fishing but is it a technique, an equalizer or cheating?
Redcrest 2024 is coming to Lay Lake and the Expo is at the BJCC, March 14-17!
Redcrest 2024 is coming to Lay Lake and the Expo is at the BJCC, March 14-17!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Lines and times. I'm Spencer Graves. I got MLF pro
Ryan Salzman in here, and I've got up in comer
Hayden Marbaitt, who, by the way, is just winning everything
on Gunnersville. Why are you winning so much on Gunnersville?
What's going on over there?
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (00:14):
No, it's been a crazy couple of weeks.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Yeah, crazy couple weeks. You know, go to these tournaments
that you're gonna do well.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
I mean, had a pretty good feeling about the last couple,
but I'm not gonna say I knew it was gonna
go as good as it has gone.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
I mean, you're putting up twenty nine pounds bags consistently
on a lake that a lot of people think is
hurting right now and really tough. What's been the secret
for you? What's the thing that has worked well for you?
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Oh, there's been several different things, But for one, I
don't think the lake's hurting right now.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
You know that comment may have been applicable three years ago,
but the last three years gunners have been trending up
so fast. There's been this class of massive class of
fish that was like two and a half pounds last year.
There were threes and this year, they're like four to sixes.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
So then why ares so many people hyper critical about
that lay?
Speaker 2 (01:02):
I mean, I don't think they are.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
It's typically a lot of locals will say, like this
leg game what it used to be ten to fifteen
years old.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
Man, I've seen stuff on Facebook just people like want
to see tens but whenever he's to go out and
cutch When you can go out and catch five five
pounders in a day, I don't think there's anything wrong
with the lantern either.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Look, I don't know what the stats are. I was
looking at what at the BFL I caught sixteen pounds
or something, and I was in like a hundred or something. Yeah,
I don't know, acking right like seventy Like that's mad,
Like did that used to get you at least top twenty?
I've been in some top tens. Was seventeen in the
spring the.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
ABA tournament that Hayden and I fished. Yeah, there was
a guy that had twenty pounds and he was he
looked at it and he was like, I'm not even
finish in the top ten. No, And it was really close.
And then you had that two day up there. What
were your weights? Day one?
Speaker 3 (01:53):
H I had twenty seven oh nine the first day
and then twenty nine thirty five the second day.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Dang, you got bigger. Yeah, a lot of times you
fall off on the second day.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Just you listen to those numbers. Twenty seven on day one,
twenty nine on day two. That's about as healthy as
that lake's going to be.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
It's healthier than I've ever seen it. I've got it
on the lake for twelve years. Yeah. As far as
the back, do you think?
Speaker 1 (02:15):
What do you think makes a lake super healthy? Because listen,
we've all heard the arguments. Oh, they're getting rid of
all the grass man no place for them to go,
and eel grass is taken over.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
Ill grass is the best thing that ever happened.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
That's the reason. That's right, that's the only reason that
these fish are as healthy as they are. The eel
grass when it first started, that's when I was winning
everything because I figured out the eel grass deal and
catching weights like Hayden, and then the eel grass kind
of became a carpet. And so what this has done
is given a ton of cover for the bass and
bait fish, and it's like hunting needles in a haystack.
(02:48):
So now they have a lot more area to live in.
And if they didn't and we can just pinpoint them,
you know, like we used to, there wouldn't be the population.
But now we have more houses for the bass, meaning
bigger population sure, and the ill grass protects a lot
of them. To like you'll have floating like you can
roll into all reads. Sometimes there'll be a floating eel
grass over it for a week and nobody's gonna catch
a single fish out of there. And then like in
the summertime when you're a ledge fishing, there's there's fresh
(03:10):
fish that pop out of that eel grass all the
way down the river channel onto those ledges that have
not seen a bait in a week, and they're dumb,
like you know, they don't they're just like, I mean,
it's the most pressured blake in the country, but those
fish are coming out of the eel grass with minimal
pressure and they just keep biting.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
Right when you have that floating eel grass, you could
punch that, couldn't you.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Yeah, So ironically last year in the VPT, I was
punching a drop shot on ledges, catching them because it
was this massive mat of eel grass floats and there's
a massive school there and I'm like, well, all the
other schools are taking I gotta figure out. I felt
like a half ounce drop shot and I throw that
thing in the air and let it go and I'll
hook like a three four pounder and he's like under
(03:49):
the grass and I'm going and digging him out of
my drop shot. It's really funny.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
But so all that says to me is that you
have to adapt to the conditions in which you're.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
Given every day. That's all fishing is.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
So then that's perfect lead into live scopers and the
way that that world is because now you hear all
this argument about scoping, and the reason I wont Hayden
in here is Hayden, you're arguably one of the best
scopers that's out there, and you probably do you take
offense to that term when somebody calls you a scoper.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
Not really, because I don't really feel like I am.
I've just adapted to my style of fishing to use
it because I feel like that's the only way you
can compete and be consistent.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
Now, okay, but where did you all right explain for
everybody that doesn't know about Hayden Barbit. Where did you
come from? How did you grow up fishing? Who'd you
learn from?
Speaker 3 (04:33):
Like?
Speaker 1 (04:33):
What was your trajectory to get to where you're at
where you're winning big tournaments on Gunnersville consistently.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
Yeah, I grew up on the Coosa River. I'm from Birmingham,
not far from right here, and so I grew up
fishing the Cousi a lot. I was just like you know,
normal Coostera river shaw water power fishermen like like to
cover water, swimming, jig chowder, bait, stuff like that. And
then you know, my great grandparents had a house up
on gunners Will my whole life, and I've stayed up
there every single summer pretty much the whole summer and
(04:59):
ledg fish and stuff like that. So you know, I've
been super familiar with gunners Fiel my entire life, and
lad fishing is probably, you know, my favorite way to fish.
And then the last couple of months, you know, I
just hadn't fish Gunnersville a ton this time of year,
and I knew how the whole lake laid out and
how it set up and kind of what to expect
and everything like that. So I started getting some clues
when I was up there like December and November and
(05:21):
stuff like that and catching some of those big, you know,
twenty five to twenty eight, twenty nine pound bags. And
I've just kind of ran with it since then and
been able to replicate it and kind of like follow
the fish through their transitions and their movements all the
way like now where they're fixing the spawn.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
So, if you love doing lead fishing, were you when
you would go up to Gunnersville for maybe the first
time this time of year when you don't typically fish.
Were you going out actively looking at ledges and then
adjusting from there or did you just go with what
you thought the fish would be doing.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
I mean, primarily it's just like bait oriented. I would
just look for bait, you know. I've gone up there
several times late this time of year, you know, and
just thrown a trap and chatter bait and stuff like that,
you know, caught twenty pounds and stuff like that. I
just really was looking for something off the wall, Like
this is the first year ever fished the Toyota's and
I was up there my Christmas break and stuff like that,
and I was like, I'm just gonna try to figure
(06:09):
out something you know, where I can fish to win
and be consistent and not. I just felt like in
the grass and I might have twenty two, twenty three
pounds one day and then sixteen the next day, there's
never going to be a shot for me to win.
And you know, so I just scanned a lot and
I found some you know, isolated structure and just bait
and stuff like that and just kind of ran with it.
Even looked at some ledges. You know it it was
(06:30):
pretty crazy, like one of the places in the Toyota.
But it wasn't great. You know, I had like two
over four off of it. But I mean it's normal
summertime ledge Like I'm sure you know about it, Ryan, Like,
it's just normal ledge hole.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
And there's that's just funny to hear. It's like I
caught two. They weren't great four pounders. There's guys that
are listening to this podcast early, dude, I wish I
could catch one four pounder, especially in the tournament.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
You know, it's a different mentality once you That's what
separates you know, people like Hayden and people that eventually
make it pros just mentality. People that don't think they
can go catch a four pounder or six pounds or
already lost. They already lost.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
I was telling Hayden after that tournament that I feel
like he needs to go from what he's picked up
in the Toyota Series and go to the invitationals and
try to go for the BPT. When you were trying
to go through it, Ryan, what was the what were
the blocks that you would kind of have to overcome
to go from a weekend warrior and every day angler
to become a pro.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
To me, it's just the only roadblock is time, and
if you can be patient enough and determined enough, it'll
happen for you and work hard enough. The biggest thing
is time. You have to have macro patients, and this
is a micro patients world we're living in. Like I
want a four pounder and I want it now right.
They don't want to put in the work like Hayden
does and I do. Just go out and looking for structure.
(07:48):
That the wins that he had was a culmination of
the last few years that he's put on Gunners will
working on this new technique and when I would win,
it'd be a culminating I'll be out there. My first
BFL ever won twenty fifteen, biggest bag of her weighing
to tournament was like thirty three pounds. But I was
guiding every day on the lake and I wasn't even
playing to fish it. And my buddy was like, think
(08:08):
got some openings for boaters. I was like, I guess
i'll fish it. I'm gotta some big ones, and I
just went and ran my path. I never once ran
my whole pattern because I was just guiding every day
all my best spots, and it was just stupid. And
I was like, well, okay.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
So you just did that milk run and you ran
into the similar stuff that you were catching over the
last couple of weeks. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
I mean like when you're guiding, you try to you
don't go catch all your fishing a day. You got
to manage fish because you have fish people every day.
And I just that was a really cool you know,
That's when I kind of learned to tie something together.
But it just takes time. Like Hayden's he's gonna have success,
this success, and then guess what, He's gonna have periods
where he's gonna struggle, and then he's gonna have periods
(08:46):
where he has more success. That's how this fishing world works.
You can be at the top of the game and
then the bottom of the game, then back at the top.
It's the most losingest winning sport ever. I think KVD
won five percent of the time. Now there's some guys
with SCOTE that I feel like some metrics are probably
going to be changed with, like Jacob Wheeler. You know
you got dustin conals now one five times. The guys
(09:07):
with technology advances comes astronomical like advantage if you dial
that in before everybody else, which is what cave You
did with side scan. What he was obviously one of
the first power fishermen, but he was one of the
first power fishermen to implement technology at the same time.
So when side scan came out, you saw him dominate
Kentucky Lake and all these ledge events. And that's what
(09:28):
Hayden and all these other guys are doing.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
I've heard a lot of guys say that side scan
was the ultimate piece of technology that came out because
you know, as somebody who scopes, you're always looking for
offshore structure, something just a little different that's holding fish,
and side scan now gave everybody an opportunity to really
see what was happening on the bank and be able
to mark and plot way points based on what they
were seeing. So that brush pile maybe on lanear isn't
(09:52):
nearly as protected as he used to be.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
You know.
Speaker 3 (09:54):
Yeah, the combination of side scan and you know, like
lake Master mapping and stuff like that back then was incredible.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Like that medium chip.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
Now there used to be secret juice holes like there were,
like there were muscle beds no one knew about. But
with this new mapping, it shows every ditch, every high spot,
low spot, and everything in between.
Speaker 3 (10:12):
Yeah, it doesn't. You can't really hide these days. No,
it's pretty bad. I mean, even like luge fishing on gunners,
you don't worry about someone marking. They could ride by
and look over, look down at their map. They're gonna
know what you're fishing. It's very obvious.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
They see you, they.
Speaker 3 (10:26):
Or something.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
They'll go back and check it as soon as you leave.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
Yeah, those guys.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
That come in on you and they're one hundred yards away,
and every time you kind of move down a little bit,
they start inching a little closer.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
I mean, people sit there like we were fishing that
una Qull Benefit tournament the other day, and we pulled
up on a little point throwing a true best one bait,
and just every cast we were catching them. They were
like two to three pounders. But this you could tell
he might not have been catching something. He just sat
there and watched in the middle of the channel. We
just turned round a waved at him and kept throwing gunners.
Might be the worst I'm ever killing you. We were.
(10:59):
I mean, I just accepted at this point it's it's
just ridiculous. It's so bad. I have to have a
guideboat because if I guys solely out of my rapt boat,
I won't have zero holes left.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
No, Like, so what do you do when you're running
a boat? Your guideboat is completely blank.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
It's just a normal bass boat.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
It's a regular bass boat. No marking. Yeah, it ryan salesman,
and it's.
Speaker 3 (11:23):
You have to like, it's just ridiculous. I had a
guy I was so close to me when I was
fishing that the second day of that AVA. I thought
he was pulling up the talk like I'm not. He
was twenty yards Like I could have I could have
jumped in this boat. I was like, hey, dude, how's
it going, Like just slipped over at him. He's like,
jud you're just idling in the middle. I was like,
there's nothing to scan here.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
The drones you're looking for.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
I thought he was gonna say, like, what's up, dude,
and asked me something, but he was just like, how's
it going.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
I was like, all right, this is kind of a
curse to have a wrap boat, though the guy, Okay.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
This is a message I'm gonna send all the young
kids out there. Do not wrap your boat until you're
being paid. It's not cool. I mean it is. You
think it's cool and you idolize us. But what you
don't realize is that once you wrap it someone that
you're gonna think you're someone and they're gonna go follow
you everywhere you fish and mark your stuff. It is
what it is.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
Yeah, it makes you more of a target.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Yeah, just go out and enjoy it, you know, and
don't put that pressure on yourself.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
I've got some good sponsors that helped me through my tournaments.
I have a rab boat. But I think it's funny
because I don't know shit, Right, I've been fishing for
four years. I could catch some decent fish, Like even
in the tournament that we were in, right, I wait
in two fish and two fish on Gunnersville this time
of year, like that was terrible. I caught fourteen fish,
but they were all fourteen point nine inches, and I
(12:40):
had to bring in fifteen at least, and I didn't
want to bring in fifteen, so I wighed in the
two and I had guys talking to me like what
were you doing? Bla blah blah blah, And I'm like, sucking,
That's what I was doing. I wasn't doing what I
should have been doing to catch fish. So it is
kind of a you know, it is nice when you
have a rab boat and nobody knows because I take
the heat off of you guys. They start on me
(13:00):
around I'm like, oh good, they're not falling.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
I tell you, almost every professional that lives on a
local like these high pressure lakes has a sneak boat.
Jordan has his little ten rigs. Fletcher has ten rig Connell,
Mark Daniels Junior. We all those boys have little ten riggs.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
I'm calling Silicaga Marine today.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
I'm saying, what you guys have for the ten rig? Yeah?
I started.
Speaker 3 (13:24):
I started fishing out of like a nineteen foot ten
rig when I was a kid. Yeah, and I've still
got It's just that's awesome like that. We can't sell this.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
Listen the success that you're having and knowing that the
live scope conversation is such a big conversation. And you know,
Ryan and I talked about it a little bit before
you got here. Ryan, what do you see as far
as the future of live scope?
Speaker 2 (13:47):
Man? I feel like live scope is here to stay,
but I feel like there has to be some kind
of limitter. It's getting out of hand. Like on bass,
there's guys that have the saltwater transducers. They can see
their bait out at two hundred feet if you could
cast that far. But the reality is you're gonna start
seeing just everyone it. Just like he said to he
(14:11):
feels like to to compete. He has to do it
when it When it hits that point, we feel like
we have an issue. Now. I am for it. I
won my tournament at watts Bar using ford facing on
the high side of a dam. I love using forward
facing in supplement of my normal patterns like fishing grass
and this and that. But guys have just took it
(14:32):
to another level and have gotten so efficient at it.
It's it's that's why we see all these crazy weights, man.
I just I think there's gonna be some limitations put
on it. I don't think it's going anywhere in the
in the anytime in the future.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
But it's change this year this year.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
I feel like you might limit it to a few
transducers in the next year. But if the same guys
keep winning, and if you have to use livescope, I
feel like if if a league doesn't take it away,
there will be a new league that starts with new
live scope, or they may let you use it in
practice but not in the tournament.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
You honestly think a trail like that would be successful,
would be able to take over the ranks.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
I don't think it'll either. I don't think it'll be
I think it'll be a trail to appease people that
want to compete the other way. I don't think there's
wrong with either.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Way on an entry five thousand dollars.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
I'm sure, just like the NPFL.
Speaker 3 (15:28):
But there's a lot of people that are happy about it.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
I think the majority are. I would say I'm one
of the ones that are in between. I'm not. So
you got these spectrums. You got Randy Blockett, and then
you got we'll just say Millican, right, these are the
Pollaright Millican, Straight Scoper, Randy Blockett, Anti Scoper. I'm somewhere.
I love using it. I use it to supplement my fishing.
(15:52):
I don't feel I don't really enjoy see that's this
is my biggest thing. I don't thoroughly enjoyce having to
go stare at the screen all day, like I have
to compete. That's not that fun for me. I mean,
it's fun using it, like when you first get scope
and you throw at it and you see officiate, this
is amazing. But when you have to go do it
every day and you're neck stuck looking down, you feel
detached from mother nature and detached from the world. Like
(16:14):
the other day yesterday I was fishing with the Nut
brothers or staring at the screen and I'm like, oh, man,
look at that stump. He's like, no, it's the bank.
I'm like, oh crap, I didn't realize where we were.
This is what happens when you scope. You don't have
any You're just locked in the simulation.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
And they feel like it is a viable technique if
you treat it like an actual Like there's guys who
are really good at jerk baiting, and you'll talk to
that guy and you're like, I bet you love throwing
a frog in the fall, and they're like, I'm a
terrible frogger. That's how I feel about live skill. But
I think those guys that like live skill but they're
not good at it, so that's why they start to
(16:49):
hate on it.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
No, So it's it's not just a technique. It is
a way of life. So Drew gil he said, I'm
a full time scoper. This is what it is like.
It's you're either going to commit to it and winstor famine.
If he goes out there and he can't catch weights
in order to win, he can, he can't, but let
me let fim me finish. So it doesn't matter whether
(17:12):
you're deep shallow, jerk baiting, swim baiting, dragging a jig,
dragging a Carolina rig, pitching a drop shot, throwing a
crank bait. If you're good with scope, I can see
a fish on the bottom and reel my DT twenty
by his head and catch him. If they're on a
crank bait. It's there's literally takes a zero guesswork out
of it. That's what I've learned about it.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
It's not that easy, is it.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
It takes a lot of work to get to that point.
Speaker 3 (17:36):
It makes you extremely efficient in everything you do.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
But isn't that the goal of a tournament, Like if
you had a tournament like MLF as you catch every fish, right,
I actually think scoping is more damaging to what you
guys do because literally it's catch every fish with bass.
You got a weigh in your five biggest So when
you're in a tournament setting, you're playing a game, just
like somebody in tennis or golf or baseball or football.
(18:01):
You have to go out and find the five biggest
fish in the lake. You can go wherever you want
as long as you're in that body of water, unless
you know there's some guys that like to even bend
that rule. So you're going out trying to catch the
five biggest fish if you know they're doing this and
you can find them on scope, isn't that part of
the game.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
Yeah, well, so you can do it, but like like
he said, when you feel like you have to do
something to compete or compete to win, we can go
make a living not using it, but we want to win.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
I mean, yeah, I just feel like, like that's why
I've dedicated so much time to If I'm ever going
to qualify for any professional circuit, I'm gonna have to
be super efficient Scope.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
You obviously would you rather not scope Peyton?
Speaker 3 (18:39):
Probably not, But I mean, like, I'm not gonna I'm
not gonna go qualify for the Elite Series, the BPT,
the invitations, anything flipping a jig down the bank like
or somebody like they did back in the day.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
That's never gonna happen at that technique.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
Yeah, so I come from the air. When I qualified,
I did it with without scus pre scope, and then
it come.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Out while I made it back in the day, back
in the day, dude, I technically.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
Am now like, but for someone like me, when I
go out there and I'm struggling with Scope, I know
how to go catch them, not scoping, So it's really
hard for me to totally commit to it. And there's
this growth period that you have to go through with Scope.
It's where you're gonna go out a lot and not
catch them and then it's gonna click and then you're
gonna catch a lot. But it takes for me, it
takes a lot of joy when I have to just fully,
I fully love going down a grass flat and not
(19:27):
knowing and just when I rip that fricker that that
that rattle trap out of there and goes podcast, it's
a podcast. But now when I rip that trap out
and I go when it goes down and goes thom
and that Yozuri lipless is right down his throat and
it just reel into him. He comes up jumping. There
is that. That's the art of fishing. There's an art
(19:48):
to it, sure of the unknown.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
Do you still, Hayden, do you still get the level
of excitement when somebody is cranking or throwing a rattle
trap and all of a sudden they run into that
hard object and they feel that tug and they set
the hook. Oh you still get that even when you're
watching them on screen.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
Watched them on screen.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
Right to them they bite. Do you still have that high?
Speaker 3 (20:09):
I think it's extremely fun to see how they react
to your bait, And like, I don't know, I've learned
more about fishing from watching how they act. Whenever I
present my baits in different ways than I would have
learned in the next ten years. Just thrown around and.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
That's how I still enjoy like to make thirty casts
to try to figure out what they're doing. You can
literally watch they're not it. Logan Parks had a video
up the other day. He was jerking and he made
one subtle move right at the bottom of the belt.
I mean, he was probably the last twitch he could
do and bam he got wrecked. So that little subtle move.
Then he knows maybe they're reacting to that.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
One hundred percent. It's the best tool for professional fishing.
My concern is, like I just if I was raising
my kid, I don't just like we get off the
video game and go play outside. This is this analogy
like okay, there, you can play the video game and fish,
or you can play outside. And I just think there
needs to be a balance. I would love to see, like, like,
let's just say the BPT has seven tournaments. Let's say
(21:03):
three of them are no scope events, like you use
it in practice or maybe put the schedule around to
where you don't even really want to use it anyway,
But let's just just balance it out a little bit.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
I can see I can see them doing that. I
think that would be really good slope tournaments.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
Yeah, I have to go.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
Yeah, I mean they're looking for well rounded. I mean,
if you're talking about raising a kid and fishing, Yeah,
you want to raise your kid how to be a
shallow person, because there's a lot of shallow bites that
they're gonna miss. You don't want to dedicate them solely
to scoping. But where I have a problem with people
who knock live scopers is they go that's all they know.
It's not.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
You know.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
Obviously we're seeing younger guys on live scope because they
came up with it, like they've lived in technology.
Speaker 3 (21:41):
There's people now twenty years old. Yeah I'm about to
be twenty one. But I'm seeing guys like starting to
come up now, like high schoolers and college guys that
like they they're pretty like they have to see their
bait every they like watching their bait every cast, which
so they're.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
That's the problem is obviously, you don't want a non
well rounded fisherman. You want somebody that can do everything.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
Yeah, I grew up I mean throwing a crank bait
and doing all sorts of stuff, and I can parallel
the bank. I don't want to see my bait. I
trust that it's doing the right thing. It's down there.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
It's a field thing.
Speaker 3 (22:12):
Yeah, yeah, but that's it is strange to see people
that now are like even like fishing behind you. They
want to throw like towards the front because they want
to see what they make sure their bait's around something.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
So, Hayden, what would you say is the ample decision
moving forward with scope in tournaments?
Speaker 3 (22:31):
I mean, I don't think it's gonna change. I think
I think maybe a two transducer limit, you know, like
whether that be three sixty and live scope or you know,
two live scopes or something like that where you know
that you can still have a guy run perspective and forward,
or you can run one off the jackplate and one
forward up front or three sick like whatever he wants
to do. But a two transducer limit, personally, I don't
(22:52):
want to see it go to where you know, it's
five scopes. It's a sixty two salt water up front,
a thirty four perspective, a thirty four forward, and two
sixty twos two thirty fours off each side of the
jack plate.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
Are the rigs in MLF just as wild with the
amount of electronic worst.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
So I watched Chris Aldan's video it's way worse on
the on the bass master side. Oh yeah, I mean
as far as the extent of where they took the transducers.
And it's a lot of the Japanese guys and the
BFT guys see the Japanese guys, so they get the
idea like, oh I need that because he's got that,
and it's like fomo. But you know, like Brian Schmidt,
he has four garments.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
Fifty thousand dollars rig that's the pictures that everybody's seeing.
That's right all over it.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
Yeah, but that's where it's going, right, So when is
it going to end? Right? So that's where he's talking
about Spade.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
Yeah, he finished fifty fourth at Teleda.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
That's what I was going to get at the other
That's what I was gonna.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
Get me is like, you can have all that stuff
on your boat, but if you don't know how to
use it effectively, or you don't want to use it effectively.
Joseph Webster told me in one of his tournaments at
Toledo Ben He's like Spencer. For the first time in
my career, I like to spin a round in my hand,
and I stared at that screen all three days that
I was able to.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
I did the same thing at Toledo because we were
there before them, and I finished like sixteenth, had the
bikes to almost make the top ten. But it was
my first tournament I ever just solely used scope, but
I knew I had to do it to compete those
fish out there. Rome just roam in the timber.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
Talk about Red Crest. That's one of the reasons why
you're in. You're obviously an Alabama guy. I'd love to
have both of you on the podcast more if we
can get you guys in. Normally West Logan's here, but
you're really in town because of the Bass Pro Tour. Yeah,
and Red Crest, which is your major major tournament. This
was huge, it is it is coming to Lay Lake.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
Now you're in. You're a North Alabama guy. How are
you going to translate to some of these central Alabama
lakes like lay You.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
Know, I'm actually a river rat. So my history is
I didn't come up like hey, so hayting about turned
twenty one and has already won two major events. When
I was twenty one, I got my first bass boat,
So I was like way behind a lot. A lot
of people don't know this about me. I accelerateed really
fast once I got a bass boat. But I was
a bank fisherman for a long time, and then when
(24:55):
I started fishing what Mike cost twenty twenty one. In
college below Wilson Damn on Pickwick, we would go out
and a fourteen foot John boat in the twenty five
horse and run our butts up to though that blow
that dam across the tailwaters and we would drift around
and just fish current. So I'm very familiar with current,
and that's kind of where I cut my teeth. So
the Koser River is a current system, so I feel
very comfortable.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
So you're hoping that they're pulling water.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Oh, they're pulling water. We got a lot of rain.
I look, they're running three generators this morning.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
I'm willing to bet that when I tune into Red
Crest that I'm gonna see mister Salisman at the base
of the dam.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
High odds. Yeah, look, here's the deal. I'm not love that.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
I think it's great for you.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
Yeah, I mean, I'm you got it, just like you
gotta fish to win. I feel like I gotta fish
my strength, and that's my strength. As far as I
can catch them in the grass. Obviously, I'm from Gunners
will have one in the grass, and there's grass on Lay. Now,
if I feel like I can't win at the dam,
you won't see me there. But you gotta go and
practice and do this and that where it's they're running
three generators this morning, pulling thirty thousand cfs, which is
(25:54):
a lot for Lay Lake. Now we're supposed to get
five to six more inches of rain between now. Inside
they might have the spillways open. Who know.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
Official practice starts Sunday.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
Sunday. So here's what's gonna happen. We're gonna get a
huge influx of current. The water's gonna money up. There's
gonna be a lot of current, and there's gonna be
like a gradual draw down of current throughout the event.
How that affects the fish, I don't know. I'm not
really from the Couser River. I just know what the
current's gonna do, just because I've fished rivers in my
whole life. So I gotta get up there and that
what that means is gonna change. So the only people
(26:25):
who are really gonna know how to catch them are
people that know how to adjust in current. If you're
fishing current now on the lower end, the water's gonna
come up. You know, these large mouth watertown's probably already
sixty degrees they're warming. These large mouths are gonna come
up to the banks really fast. So that's something else
else you gotta think about. And that's no. You know
in grass in the bank, no scope situation might be
(26:47):
frog situation.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
Okay, are you going? Are you gonna lay it out
right now? The red Crest will be one off scope?
Speaker 2 (26:54):
No?
Speaker 1 (26:56):
Is that because Jacob Wheelers in it?
Speaker 2 (26:58):
No? He even when I'm Here's the thing when I
when you think of a scoper, when I define a scoper,
there's someone who just stares at it and falls an
individual bass, right, But someone who's like a true fisherman
is going to use that technology to help them supplement
their fish catches every day. Like if I'm at the dam,
I'm gonna use it to see a rock that I
want to hit with my swim bait. So it's going
(27:19):
to be utilized regardless. If I'm on a dock, I'm
going to look under that dock.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
Well, the percentage wise, you're not going to see somebody
one hundred percent on it, they're going to have to
move around where.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
There guys one hundred percent using scope. If there's timber
on lay when I went down in pre practice, someone
will probably figure out a bite that timber just staring
at fish.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
So some of the major tournaments that I've been a
part of and have just been around on either the
media side or fishing side, there's usually guys that are
fishing the tournament and they're like, this is so and
So's tournament, Like they are going to kick some ass
on this tournament. Do you feel that about Red crest Or?
Is it really free for all? No?
Speaker 2 (27:56):
I feel that there's a I've heard a guy you
find Dalton I think it's so, what's what's that kid's name.
Speaker 3 (28:02):
Dalton Head?
Speaker 2 (28:02):
Okay, Daltonhead. I've heard a lot of buddies, a little
a lot of highballt dalton Head. Apparently there's a hammer
over there also.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
But do you think that matters? Like if somebody is
really well known for a lake, like winning their local lake, it.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
Does for sure. It's just history, right, and you know
some lakes are very like repeatable. Gunners is a lake
that changes every year. Cus the river a little bit
more predictable from what I hear. That's why you see
a lot of same guys.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
Winning cause is also hard because you can't really replicate
what you do on the Cusa and move that to
other lakes. It can be really difficult. It can't d
up doing Cusa stuff and go somewhere else.
Speaker 3 (28:35):
It can be get different hints from different things that
you learn on the cusa and apply them.
Speaker 2 (28:39):
It's fish at the end. You know they get around docks,
they get around grass, they chatter a still stupid. You
know that you want to chatterbaate, you won't get to
catch bass. So anyway, Dustin Connell, it's you know, Daltonhead.
But here's the deal. Connell has won more tournaments on
land than I think anyone in this tournament and below
the dam. So if you had to put money on
a horse, you have to bet on him. Now. I'm
(29:01):
never want to bet against myself, but you just know
what you're getting into and if.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
That probably fuels your fire a little bit.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
Ohays, I want to beat him so bad, right yeah,
I mean just wise.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
That's how it is when any guy gets into a
tournament and they see pros on the list, like they
may not win the tournament. But you were talking about
that BFL. You gost sixteen pounds, you finished one hundred. Yeah,
there were ninety nine guys that were like I bet
Ryan Salzman.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
Yeah, one percent.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
That for them is the tournament. If they went out
my career, I'm happy to catch two bass. If I
beat anybody on the list, I feel like, all right,
I'm doing all right.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
So as far as the mentality aspect, I stopped looking
at names a long time ago, like this is great
to talk about because we're on a podcast, But I
could care if KVD, Dust and Connell because it's not
about them. It's about you and the fish and try
and go do the best I can do. I don't
care where I finish. Like if I suck, I suck.
Now I'm mad for people.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
Then you shouldn't get caught in worrying about what other
people know.
Speaker 3 (29:54):
You got to go to go out. I have never
settle attitude, Never settle for whatever you do, and then
go out and as much way as possible every day,
like like every day at the Toyota. I mean I
knew I was doing good, but I wasn't sitting there
studying a leader war. Now it was like, I'm gonna
go tomorrow. I'm gonna catch as much weight as I can.
Like the second day, I had twenty five something and
I was telling my code. My cod's like, you're not
gonna leave this place, like no, I want to catch more,
(30:16):
like I'm not. I'm not. It's gunners, so you don't
want to lay off. And it doesn't matter who's behind
you or who's ahead of you.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
I want to catch. Tournament's about to end, like you
exhaust it for everything. Yeah, I mean that's got to
be hard on multi day tournaments though, because like you
catch them day one, you don't want to catch everything
day one. It's kind of that guide mentality. You want
to burn out your fish.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
Now on MLF it's different. So that's MLF is the
hardest thing I've ever done. I enjoy five fish because
I'm better at it, more consistent, but counts you have
to burn down everything every day, and once you burn
that down, you go find something else to burn down.
Once you burn that down, you go find another house
to burn down. You set it all on fire.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
Se Ryan Salizman with a lighter shift's about to go down.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
It's about to go down. So and then in a
perfect situation, you got a spot where you burn it
down and they build a new house the next day,
and then there's another one for you to burn down.
So that means more fisher are coming too.
Speaker 3 (31:10):
Well.
Speaker 1 (31:10):
Pyro Technic over there, yeah, yep, that's sure right, all right,
it's coming to Birmingham, Alabama. Lay Lake is the Lake
of Venue if you want to check that out. March
fourteenth through the seventeenth, They're doing a huge expo at
the BJCC. I'm going to be there for a couple
of the days, but we would love for you guys
to come over and then you guys actually do something
(31:31):
different so you don't have a typical way in, but
you do a postfish kind of run through where they
show you highlights to some of the catches. Everybody has
a camera.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
Yep, so I mean they're gonna have I think ten
cameras and they're gonna put them on the bit guys
who are obviously catching fish, and we come through the
arena at the end of the day. You can come
watch us. They drive us through the stage. You come on,
they interview us. If they have highlights from the day,
they're going to show those and then you know, sign
autographs with everyone that's there and just talk fishing. The
guys get cut if they take twenty on the third
(32:02):
day and then top ten on the fourth, and then
the guys that get cut are gonna be at the
expo just working booze, hanging out with anglers, talking fishing.
So we definitely encourage everyone to come out to the expo.
We also putting in at Beeswax. We'll get there at
seven am. Blast off is at seven thirty, and there's
just be a big crowd come see us off, you know,
cheer us on, and then head on over to the xpo.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
When when blast off is going on. Is there a
lot for people to do while they're there? Is it
literally just watching guys jump in the boat take off.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
Yeah, you know, you basically you pull up, you see
guys getting ready. They have a little tent set up
over there with the announcer. They got music playing, and
it's just a really cool vibe and atmosphere. You know,
a lot of times I predict there's probablynna be a
little fog, you know, music playing, get a little goose
fun in the morning. Oh yeah, oh yeah, you know,
it's just you know, We work all year to get
(32:51):
to this event, and it's just a high energy event.
So it's just it's a great thing to come and
check out. And for guys like Hayden, this is where
he wants to go. When I was young, I would
go to every bass Master Classic. If Ray Crest was there,
I would have went. But it gives me something to like,
I want to be there, Yeah, and I motivates fuel
free fire.
Speaker 3 (33:06):
Yes, yeah, I'll be there. We're actually doing Auburn versus
Alabama little face off and waiting or doing like the
little way and thing before y'all whenever y'all come in
the second day.
Speaker 2 (33:14):
So oh really, Red Chris ye Man.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
Yeah, I didn't even mention that. You know, Hayden is
a national champion with Auburn and just absolutely destroyed at
the last couple of years. And you're getting ready to graduate.
Speaker 3 (33:30):
Not not yet.
Speaker 2 (33:31):
No, he's trying to he's trying to prolong his college.
Speaker 3 (33:34):
I'm a junior this year, that six year red shirt
freshman thing. Yeah, next year it will be senior year,
and then the next year will be the fifth year
and then hopefully we're done by them.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
Dude, I did fit five years.
Speaker 3 (33:47):
I don't know if I want to stay five years.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
Here's the deal. I was just getting into fishing and
I did also do RTC and I commissioned in the military.
What caused the five years actually broke my arm when
I was supposed to go off to my army training
and I couldn't come. So it caused me to extend,
which caused me to get the fish another year before
I had to start in my real life. So it
was a pretty good deal.
Speaker 1 (34:05):
If you're get to watch Redcrest on TV and you're like, well,
who's Ryan Salizman, How am I going to find him?
Look for the boat that's got the Hawaiian flowers? Where
did that come from?
Speaker 2 (34:13):
So I'm wearing a hat right now, and it's a
company called Shaka Kai. They're based out of Florida. It's
kind of a Hawaiian lifestyle theme and the outdoors with.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
What vibe fits that, right, So this is how you
partnered with them.
Speaker 2 (34:24):
No, so this is a really funny story. If anybody
watching has ever watching Mikey Balls, if you haven't, go
to YouTube, look up Mikey Balls and he.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
Has a hub gunn.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
He's not that bad, but you get the idea, but
he wear he used to wear a Hawaiian hat all
the time and I filled with Mikey several times, and
when I was filming with him, I got one of
these hats. I saw an ad on Instagram or something
and I wore it and he was just cracking up
because I was trolling them and they saw that in
the video. We got a lot of views and they
sold the hats and were like, hey, man, thanks for that.
Here's a couple of hats. And I was like, if
you like that, you know, here's a proposal. I would
(34:58):
love to partner with you. Guys. Centem a proposal and
they liked it and we've been partners ever since for
like the last four years.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
That's such a big piece of information. Like, I know,
that's a funny story. But if you're a young fisherman
or even somebody that loves to fish and you want
to get to that level of sponsorship, trying to gain
sponsorship is the that's more of a job than fishing itself.
Speaker 2 (35:17):
Yeah, so the professional side. What people don't know about
professional fishing. They're like, oh, scope's easy. Even if it
is easy, guess what, we got to run a business.
So we got to run social media, we got to
manage finances, and we got to make sure everything's taken
care at home when you're not there. So there's just
a lot of revolving pieces. Oh also part time trucker,
So I drove over like thirty five thousand miles last
(35:40):
year just on my personal vehicle.
Speaker 1 (35:41):
And you also don't get everything that you guys have
for free. That's like a big misnomer.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
No, you know, even if we do, like once you
get to a certain level, even if you do get
your sponsor product for free and then hopefully you're getting
paid for you know, your representation of the sponsor. So
I'm sponsored by Uzuri, have a paid deal with them,
free product. But also I'm expected to do certain things.
I'm expected to post certain amount of times a month,
I'm expected to do so many videos, I'm expected to
(36:09):
do so many shows. And then let's just say, okay,
so you have that for one company, let's add fifteen companies.
You have to do all those requirements, meet all of
that every month, all while fishing and trying to compete
at the highest level possible.
Speaker 3 (36:23):
Yeah, and you're still having a fish as many days
as you can and be on the water just to
stay just as competitive.
Speaker 1 (36:28):
You're saying it's easy, Oh, it's easy.
Speaker 2 (36:32):
What's great about? Like, if you're going to be a
professional fisherman, it has to be your lifestyle. I don't
feel like I work because I love taking pictures and videos.
I think I have sixty thousand media pieces on my
phone right now, but I genuinely enjoy it, like it's
what I do. So whatever you're good at, make sure
to capitalize on it. Mine has been social media. I
haven't come out the gates swinging and just went and everything.
(36:52):
I went a few here and there, but I'm really
good with social media, so I'm balanced. So if I
suck at fishing, guess what, I'm still promoting.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
We both do an incredible job. Hayden, congratulations on all
your success on Gunnersville. It does not fool anybody around here.
Anybody that knows Hayden Marbut's name knows that he's the
king of Gunnersville. And hold up, Oh come on, I've
seen it all over the place.
Speaker 2 (37:15):
Here's the deal.
Speaker 1 (37:15):
I'll call him the new King of Gunnersville.
Speaker 3 (37:17):
Here's the Those things don't last forever. Just a couple
of weeks in that stuff comes to an end.
Speaker 2 (37:22):
We all have eras he is on a run right now.
But there's a lot of people. Look, there's a lot
of goats on Gunnersville. He's his name is being added.
He's on the list temporarily right now. But but I
think he will he will, he will stay there. But
there's a lot of guys like Alex Davis, John Henry
(37:43):
one of them. He's passed away. But he won a
lot he wanted Toyota, He's won several other events. I've
won my sheriff tournaments on gunners never a major one,
but a lot of tournaments on Gunnersville. But he's definitely
been added to a class of elie anglers on Gunnersville.
We'll call him the king. That's disrespecting a lot.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
I'm not the one that says it right.
Speaker 3 (38:02):
There's nobody good enough to be the king. I see
what people say, donor she will changes too much. There's
no one that just consistently wins your round. Yeah, that's
what happens. You get on something, you run with it.
Roder does you just roll with it and enjoy it
because like you know, and you know, it doesn't last forever,
and you try to make it last as long as
you can. That's all you can do. Like, I've enjoyed
(38:23):
it and like it. Everyone's like, boy, well if you're
sucking dumb like, trust me, I know this doesn't last.
Speaker 1 (38:28):
I hope you're enjoying it, but I also hope that
you're saving as much money as you can spend it
where you need it, because man, that runs out just
as quick as the love of being a king of
a lake.
Speaker 2 (38:37):
Yeah, you know, I mean. And here's the deal. And
I know, Hayden. You know, guys looking on the outside,
and that's why you see those comments, they idolize that
and make a name and guys like Hayden and I
to get as good as he is and as I am.
You don't that does. That's not enough motivation to get
as good as you are. So he doesn't let that
bother him. I promise you, I don't let that bother
me because it comes and goes, you know. So the
(39:00):
biggest thing advice I would give to Hayden is to
take that money and just use what you got going
and work on sponsorships and get a good base going
and focus on your social media, and you'll be fine.
Speaker 1 (39:11):
Guys, thanks for joining me on lines and times.
Lines and times. I'm Spencer Graves. I got MLF pro
Ryan Salzman in here, and I've got up in comer
Hayden Marbaitt, who, by the way, is just winning everything
on Gunnersville. Why are you winning so much on Gunnersville?
What's going on over there?
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (00:14):
No, it's been a crazy couple of weeks.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Yeah, crazy couple weeks. You know, go to these tournaments
that you're gonna do well.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
I mean, had a pretty good feeling about the last couple,
but I'm not gonna say I knew it was gonna
go as good as it has gone.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
I mean, you're putting up twenty nine pounds bags consistently
on a lake that a lot of people think is
hurting right now and really tough. What's been the secret
for you? What's the thing that has worked well for you?
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Oh, there's been several different things, But for one, I
don't think the lake's hurting right now.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
You know that comment may have been applicable three years ago,
but the last three years gunners have been trending up
so fast. There's been this class of massive class of
fish that was like two and a half pounds last year.
There were threes and this year, they're like four to sixes.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
So then why ares so many people hyper critical about
that lay?
Speaker 2 (01:02):
I mean, I don't think they are.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
It's typically a lot of locals will say, like this
leg game what it used to be ten to fifteen
years old.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
Man, I've seen stuff on Facebook just people like want
to see tens but whenever he's to go out and
cutch When you can go out and catch five five
pounders in a day, I don't think there's anything wrong
with the lantern either.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Look, I don't know what the stats are. I was
looking at what at the BFL I caught sixteen pounds
or something, and I was in like a hundred or something. Yeah,
I don't know, acking right like seventy Like that's mad,
Like did that used to get you at least top twenty?
I've been in some top tens. Was seventeen in the
spring the.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
ABA tournament that Hayden and I fished. Yeah, there was
a guy that had twenty pounds and he was he
looked at it and he was like, I'm not even
finish in the top ten. No, And it was really close.
And then you had that two day up there. What
were your weights? Day one?
Speaker 3 (01:53):
H I had twenty seven oh nine the first day
and then twenty nine thirty five the second day.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Dang, you got bigger. Yeah, a lot of times you
fall off on the second day.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Just you listen to those numbers. Twenty seven on day one,
twenty nine on day two. That's about as healthy as
that lake's going to be.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
It's healthier than I've ever seen it. I've got it
on the lake for twelve years. Yeah. As far as
the back, do you think?
Speaker 1 (02:15):
What do you think makes a lake super healthy? Because listen,
we've all heard the arguments. Oh, they're getting rid of
all the grass man no place for them to go,
and eel grass is taken over.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
Ill grass is the best thing that ever happened.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
That's the reason. That's right, that's the only reason that
these fish are as healthy as they are. The eel
grass when it first started, that's when I was winning
everything because I figured out the eel grass deal and
catching weights like Hayden, and then the eel grass kind
of became a carpet. And so what this has done
is given a ton of cover for the bass and
bait fish, and it's like hunting needles in a haystack.
(02:48):
So now they have a lot more area to live in.
And if they didn't and we can just pinpoint them,
you know, like we used to, there wouldn't be the population.
But now we have more houses for the bass, meaning
bigger population sure, and the ill grass protects a lot
of them. To like you'll have floating like you can
roll into all reads. Sometimes there'll be a floating eel
grass over it for a week and nobody's gonna catch
a single fish out of there. And then like in
the summertime when you're a ledge fishing, there's there's fresh
(03:10):
fish that pop out of that eel grass all the
way down the river channel onto those ledges that have
not seen a bait in a week, and they're dumb,
like you know, they don't they're just like, I mean,
it's the most pressured blake in the country, but those
fish are coming out of the eel grass with minimal
pressure and they just keep biting.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
Right when you have that floating eel grass, you could
punch that, couldn't you.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Yeah, So ironically last year in the VPT, I was
punching a drop shot on ledges, catching them because it
was this massive mat of eel grass floats and there's
a massive school there and I'm like, well, all the
other schools are taking I gotta figure out. I felt
like a half ounce drop shot and I throw that
thing in the air and let it go and I'll
hook like a three four pounder and he's like under
(03:49):
the grass and I'm going and digging him out of
my drop shot. It's really funny.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
But so all that says to me is that you
have to adapt to the conditions in which you're.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
Given every day. That's all fishing is.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
So then that's perfect lead into live scopers and the
way that that world is because now you hear all
this argument about scoping, and the reason I wont Hayden
in here is Hayden, you're arguably one of the best
scopers that's out there, and you probably do you take
offense to that term when somebody calls you a scoper.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
Not really, because I don't really feel like I am.
I've just adapted to my style of fishing to use
it because I feel like that's the only way you
can compete and be consistent.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
Now, okay, but where did you all right explain for
everybody that doesn't know about Hayden Barbit. Where did you
come from? How did you grow up fishing? Who'd you
learn from?
Speaker 3 (04:33):
Like?
Speaker 1 (04:33):
What was your trajectory to get to where you're at
where you're winning big tournaments on Gunnersville consistently.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
Yeah, I grew up on the Coosa River. I'm from Birmingham,
not far from right here, and so I grew up
fishing the Cousi a lot. I was just like you know,
normal Coostera river shaw water power fishermen like like to
cover water, swimming, jig chowder, bait, stuff like that. And
then you know, my great grandparents had a house up
on gunners Will my whole life, and I've stayed up
there every single summer pretty much the whole summer and
(04:59):
ledg fish and stuff like that. So you know, I've
been super familiar with gunners Fiel my entire life, and
lad fishing is probably, you know, my favorite way to fish.
And then the last couple of months, you know, I
just hadn't fish Gunnersville a ton this time of year,
and I knew how the whole lake laid out and
how it set up and kind of what to expect
and everything like that. So I started getting some clues
when I was up there like December and November and
(05:21):
stuff like that and catching some of those big, you know,
twenty five to twenty eight, twenty nine pound bags. And
I've just kind of ran with it since then and
been able to replicate it and kind of like follow
the fish through their transitions and their movements all the
way like now where they're fixing the spawn.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
So, if you love doing lead fishing, were you when
you would go up to Gunnersville for maybe the first
time this time of year when you don't typically fish.
Were you going out actively looking at ledges and then
adjusting from there or did you just go with what
you thought the fish would be doing.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
I mean, primarily it's just like bait oriented. I would
just look for bait, you know. I've gone up there
several times late this time of year, you know, and
just thrown a trap and chatter bait and stuff like that,
you know, caught twenty pounds and stuff like that. I
just really was looking for something off the wall, Like
this is the first year ever fished the Toyota's and
I was up there my Christmas break and stuff like that,
and I was like, I'm just gonna try to figure
(06:09):
out something you know, where I can fish to win
and be consistent and not. I just felt like in
the grass and I might have twenty two, twenty three
pounds one day and then sixteen the next day, there's
never going to be a shot for me to win.
And you know, so I just scanned a lot and
I found some you know, isolated structure and just bait
and stuff like that and just kind of ran with it.
Even looked at some ledges. You know it it was
(06:30):
pretty crazy, like one of the places in the Toyota.
But it wasn't great. You know, I had like two
over four off of it. But I mean it's normal
summertime ledge Like I'm sure you know about it, Ryan, Like,
it's just normal ledge hole.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
And there's that's just funny to hear. It's like I
caught two. They weren't great four pounders. There's guys that
are listening to this podcast early, dude, I wish I
could catch one four pounder, especially in the tournament.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
You know, it's a different mentality once you That's what
separates you know, people like Hayden and people that eventually
make it pros just mentality. People that don't think they
can go catch a four pounder or six pounds or
already lost. They already lost.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
I was telling Hayden after that tournament that I feel
like he needs to go from what he's picked up
in the Toyota Series and go to the invitationals and
try to go for the BPT. When you were trying
to go through it, Ryan, what was the what were
the blocks that you would kind of have to overcome
to go from a weekend warrior and every day angler
to become a pro.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
To me, it's just the only roadblock is time, and
if you can be patient enough and determined enough, it'll
happen for you and work hard enough. The biggest thing
is time. You have to have macro patients, and this
is a micro patients world we're living in. Like I
want a four pounder and I want it now right.
They don't want to put in the work like Hayden
does and I do. Just go out and looking for structure.
(07:48):
That the wins that he had was a culmination of
the last few years that he's put on Gunners will
working on this new technique and when I would win,
it'd be a culminating I'll be out there. My first
BFL ever won twenty fifteen, biggest bag of her weighing
to tournament was like thirty three pounds. But I was
guiding every day on the lake and I wasn't even
playing to fish it. And my buddy was like, think
(08:08):
got some openings for boaters. I was like, I guess
i'll fish it. I'm gotta some big ones, and I
just went and ran my path. I never once ran
my whole pattern because I was just guiding every day
all my best spots, and it was just stupid. And
I was like, well, okay.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
So you just did that milk run and you ran
into the similar stuff that you were catching over the
last couple of weeks. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
I mean like when you're guiding, you try to you
don't go catch all your fishing a day. You got
to manage fish because you have fish people every day.
And I just that was a really cool you know,
That's when I kind of learned to tie something together.
But it just takes time. Like Hayden's he's gonna have success,
this success, and then guess what, He's gonna have periods
where he's gonna struggle, and then he's gonna have periods
(08:46):
where he has more success. That's how this fishing world works.
You can be at the top of the game and
then the bottom of the game, then back at the top.
It's the most losingest winning sport ever. I think KVD
won five percent of the time. Now there's some guys
with SCOTE that I feel like some metrics are probably
going to be changed with, like Jacob Wheeler. You know
you got dustin conals now one five times. The guys
(09:07):
with technology advances comes astronomical like advantage if you dial
that in before everybody else, which is what cave You
did with side scan. What he was obviously one of
the first power fishermen, but he was one of the
first power fishermen to implement technology at the same time.
So when side scan came out, you saw him dominate
Kentucky Lake and all these ledge events. And that's what
(09:28):
Hayden and all these other guys are doing.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
I've heard a lot of guys say that side scan
was the ultimate piece of technology that came out because
you know, as somebody who scopes, you're always looking for
offshore structure, something just a little different that's holding fish,
and side scan now gave everybody an opportunity to really
see what was happening on the bank and be able
to mark and plot way points based on what they
were seeing. So that brush pile maybe on lanear isn't
(09:52):
nearly as protected as he used to be.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
You know.
Speaker 3 (09:54):
Yeah, the combination of side scan and you know, like
lake Master mapping and stuff like that back then was incredible.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Like that medium chip.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
Now there used to be secret juice holes like there were,
like there were muscle beds no one knew about. But
with this new mapping, it shows every ditch, every high spot,
low spot, and everything in between.
Speaker 3 (10:12):
Yeah, it doesn't. You can't really hide these days. No,
it's pretty bad. I mean, even like luge fishing on gunners,
you don't worry about someone marking. They could ride by
and look over, look down at their map. They're gonna
know what you're fishing. It's very obvious.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
They see you, they.
Speaker 3 (10:26):
Or something.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
They'll go back and check it as soon as you leave.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
Yeah, those guys.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
That come in on you and they're one hundred yards away,
and every time you kind of move down a little bit,
they start inching a little closer.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
I mean, people sit there like we were fishing that
una Qull Benefit tournament the other day, and we pulled
up on a little point throwing a true best one bait,
and just every cast we were catching them. They were
like two to three pounders. But this you could tell
he might not have been catching something. He just sat
there and watched in the middle of the channel. We
just turned round a waved at him and kept throwing gunners.
Might be the worst I'm ever killing you. We were.
(10:59):
I mean, I just accepted at this point it's it's
just ridiculous. It's so bad. I have to have a
guideboat because if I guys solely out of my rapt boat,
I won't have zero holes left.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
No, Like, so what do you do when you're running
a boat? Your guideboat is completely blank.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
It's just a normal bass boat.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
It's a regular bass boat. No marking. Yeah, it ryan salesman,
and it's.
Speaker 3 (11:23):
You have to like, it's just ridiculous. I had a
guy I was so close to me when I was
fishing that the second day of that AVA. I thought
he was pulling up the talk like I'm not. He
was twenty yards Like I could have I could have
jumped in this boat. I was like, hey, dude, how's
it going, Like just slipped over at him. He's like,
jud you're just idling in the middle. I was like,
there's nothing to scan here.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
The drones you're looking for.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
I thought he was gonna say, like, what's up, dude,
and asked me something, but he was just like, how's
it going.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
I was like, all right, this is kind of a
curse to have a wrap boat, though the guy, Okay.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
This is a message I'm gonna send all the young
kids out there. Do not wrap your boat until you're
being paid. It's not cool. I mean it is. You
think it's cool and you idolize us. But what you
don't realize is that once you wrap it someone that
you're gonna think you're someone and they're gonna go follow
you everywhere you fish and mark your stuff. It is
what it is.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
Yeah, it makes you more of a target.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Yeah, just go out and enjoy it, you know, and
don't put that pressure on yourself.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
I've got some good sponsors that helped me through my tournaments.
I have a rab boat. But I think it's funny
because I don't know shit, Right, I've been fishing for
four years. I could catch some decent fish, Like even
in the tournament that we were in, right, I wait
in two fish and two fish on Gunnersville this time
of year, like that was terrible. I caught fourteen fish,
but they were all fourteen point nine inches, and I
(12:40):
had to bring in fifteen at least, and I didn't
want to bring in fifteen, so I wighed in the
two and I had guys talking to me like what
were you doing? Bla blah blah blah, And I'm like, sucking,
That's what I was doing. I wasn't doing what I
should have been doing to catch fish. So it is
kind of a you know, it is nice when you
have a rab boat and nobody knows because I take
the heat off of you guys. They start on me
(13:00):
around I'm like, oh good, they're not falling.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
I tell you, almost every professional that lives on a
local like these high pressure lakes has a sneak boat.
Jordan has his little ten rigs. Fletcher has ten rig Connell,
Mark Daniels Junior. We all those boys have little ten riggs.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
I'm calling Silicaga Marine today.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
I'm saying, what you guys have for the ten rig? Yeah?
I started.
Speaker 3 (13:24):
I started fishing out of like a nineteen foot ten
rig when I was a kid. Yeah, and I've still
got It's just that's awesome like that. We can't sell this.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
Listen the success that you're having and knowing that the
live scope conversation is such a big conversation. And you know,
Ryan and I talked about it a little bit before
you got here. Ryan, what do you see as far
as the future of live scope?
Speaker 2 (13:47):
Man? I feel like live scope is here to stay,
but I feel like there has to be some kind
of limitter. It's getting out of hand. Like on bass,
there's guys that have the saltwater transducers. They can see
their bait out at two hundred feet if you could
cast that far. But the reality is you're gonna start
seeing just everyone it. Just like he said to he
(14:11):
feels like to to compete. He has to do it
when it When it hits that point, we feel like
we have an issue. Now. I am for it. I
won my tournament at watts Bar using ford facing on
the high side of a dam. I love using forward
facing in supplement of my normal patterns like fishing grass
and this and that. But guys have just took it
(14:32):
to another level and have gotten so efficient at it.
It's it's that's why we see all these crazy weights, man.
I just I think there's gonna be some limitations put
on it. I don't think it's going anywhere in the
in the anytime in the future.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
But it's change this year this year.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
I feel like you might limit it to a few
transducers in the next year. But if the same guys
keep winning, and if you have to use livescope, I
feel like if if a league doesn't take it away,
there will be a new league that starts with new
live scope, or they may let you use it in
practice but not in the tournament.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
You honestly think a trail like that would be successful,
would be able to take over the ranks.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
I don't think it'll either. I don't think it'll be
I think it'll be a trail to appease people that
want to compete the other way. I don't think there's
wrong with either.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Way on an entry five thousand dollars.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
I'm sure, just like the NPFL.
Speaker 3 (15:28):
But there's a lot of people that are happy about it.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
I think the majority are. I would say I'm one
of the ones that are in between. I'm not. So
you got these spectrums. You got Randy Blockett, and then
you got we'll just say Millican, right, these are the
Pollaright Millican, Straight Scoper, Randy Blockett, Anti Scoper. I'm somewhere.
I love using it. I use it to supplement my fishing.
(15:52):
I don't feel I don't really enjoy see that's this
is my biggest thing. I don't thoroughly enjoyce having to
go stare at the screen all day, like I have
to compete. That's not that fun for me. I mean,
it's fun using it, like when you first get scope
and you throw at it and you see officiate, this
is amazing. But when you have to go do it
every day and you're neck stuck looking down, you feel
detached from mother nature and detached from the world. Like
(16:14):
the other day yesterday I was fishing with the Nut
brothers or staring at the screen and I'm like, oh, man,
look at that stump. He's like, no, it's the bank.
I'm like, oh crap, I didn't realize where we were.
This is what happens when you scope. You don't have
any You're just locked in the simulation.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
And they feel like it is a viable technique if
you treat it like an actual Like there's guys who
are really good at jerk baiting, and you'll talk to
that guy and you're like, I bet you love throwing
a frog in the fall, and they're like, I'm a
terrible frogger. That's how I feel about live skill. But
I think those guys that like live skill but they're
not good at it, so that's why they start to
(16:49):
hate on it.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
No, So it's it's not just a technique. It is
a way of life. So Drew gil he said, I'm
a full time scoper. This is what it is like.
It's you're either going to commit to it and winstor famine.
If he goes out there and he can't catch weights
in order to win, he can, he can't, but let
me let fim me finish. So it doesn't matter whether
(17:12):
you're deep shallow, jerk baiting, swim baiting, dragging a jig,
dragging a Carolina rig, pitching a drop shot, throwing a
crank bait. If you're good with scope, I can see
a fish on the bottom and reel my DT twenty
by his head and catch him. If they're on a
crank bait. It's there's literally takes a zero guesswork out
of it. That's what I've learned about it.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
It's not that easy, is it.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
It takes a lot of work to get to that point.
Speaker 3 (17:36):
It makes you extremely efficient in everything you do.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
But isn't that the goal of a tournament, Like if
you had a tournament like MLF as you catch every fish, right,
I actually think scoping is more damaging to what you
guys do because literally it's catch every fish with bass.
You got a weigh in your five biggest So when
you're in a tournament setting, you're playing a game, just
like somebody in tennis or golf or baseball or football.
(18:01):
You have to go out and find the five biggest
fish in the lake. You can go wherever you want
as long as you're in that body of water, unless
you know there's some guys that like to even bend
that rule. So you're going out trying to catch the
five biggest fish if you know they're doing this and
you can find them on scope, isn't that part of
the game.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
Yeah, well, so you can do it, but like like
he said, when you feel like you have to do
something to compete or compete to win, we can go
make a living not using it, but we want to win.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
I mean, yeah, I just feel like, like that's why
I've dedicated so much time to If I'm ever going
to qualify for any professional circuit, I'm gonna have to
be super efficient Scope.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
You obviously would you rather not scope Peyton?
Speaker 3 (18:39):
Probably not, But I mean, like, I'm not gonna I'm
not gonna go qualify for the Elite Series, the BPT,
the invitations, anything flipping a jig down the bank like
or somebody like they did back in the day.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
That's never gonna happen at that technique.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
Yeah, so I come from the air. When I qualified,
I did it with without scus pre scope, and then
it come.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Out while I made it back in the day, back
in the day, dude, I technically.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
Am now like, but for someone like me, when I
go out there and I'm struggling with Scope, I know
how to go catch them, not scoping, So it's really
hard for me to totally commit to it. And there's
this growth period that you have to go through with Scope.
It's where you're gonna go out a lot and not
catch them and then it's gonna click and then you're
gonna catch a lot. But it takes for me, it
takes a lot of joy when I have to just fully,
I fully love going down a grass flat and not
(19:27):
knowing and just when I rip that fricker that that
that rattle trap out of there and goes podcast, it's
a podcast. But now when I rip that trap out
and I go when it goes down and goes thom
and that Yozuri lipless is right down his throat and
it just reel into him. He comes up jumping. There
is that. That's the art of fishing. There's an art
(19:48):
to it, sure of the unknown.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
Do you still, Hayden, do you still get the level
of excitement when somebody is cranking or throwing a rattle
trap and all of a sudden they run into that
hard object and they feel that tug and they set
the hook. Oh you still get that even when you're
watching them on screen.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
Watched them on screen.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
Right to them they bite. Do you still have that high?
Speaker 3 (20:09):
I think it's extremely fun to see how they react
to your bait, And like, I don't know, I've learned
more about fishing from watching how they act. Whenever I
present my baits in different ways than I would have
learned in the next ten years. Just thrown around and.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
That's how I still enjoy like to make thirty casts
to try to figure out what they're doing. You can
literally watch they're not it. Logan Parks had a video
up the other day. He was jerking and he made
one subtle move right at the bottom of the belt.
I mean, he was probably the last twitch he could
do and bam he got wrecked. So that little subtle move.
Then he knows maybe they're reacting to that.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
One hundred percent. It's the best tool for professional fishing.
My concern is, like I just if I was raising
my kid, I don't just like we get off the
video game and go play outside. This is this analogy
like okay, there, you can play the video game and fish,
or you can play outside. And I just think there
needs to be a balance. I would love to see, like, like,
let's just say the BPT has seven tournaments. Let's say
(21:03):
three of them are no scope events, like you use
it in practice or maybe put the schedule around to
where you don't even really want to use it anyway,
But let's just just balance it out a little bit.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
I can see I can see them doing that. I
think that would be really good slope tournaments.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
Yeah, I have to go.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
Yeah, I mean they're looking for well rounded. I mean,
if you're talking about raising a kid and fishing, Yeah,
you want to raise your kid how to be a
shallow person, because there's a lot of shallow bites that
they're gonna miss. You don't want to dedicate them solely
to scoping. But where I have a problem with people
who knock live scopers is they go that's all they know.
It's not.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
You know.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
Obviously we're seeing younger guys on live scope because they
came up with it, like they've lived in technology.
Speaker 3 (21:41):
There's people now twenty years old. Yeah I'm about to
be twenty one. But I'm seeing guys like starting to
come up now, like high schoolers and college guys that
like they they're pretty like they have to see their
bait every they like watching their bait every cast, which
so they're.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
That's the problem is obviously, you don't want a non
well rounded fisherman. You want somebody that can do everything.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
Yeah, I grew up I mean throwing a crank bait
and doing all sorts of stuff, and I can parallel
the bank. I don't want to see my bait. I
trust that it's doing the right thing. It's down there.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
It's a field thing.
Speaker 3 (22:12):
Yeah, yeah, but that's it is strange to see people
that now are like even like fishing behind you. They
want to throw like towards the front because they want
to see what they make sure their bait's around something.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
So, Hayden, what would you say is the ample decision
moving forward with scope in tournaments?
Speaker 3 (22:31):
I mean, I don't think it's gonna change. I think
I think maybe a two transducer limit, you know, like
whether that be three sixty and live scope or you know,
two live scopes or something like that where you know
that you can still have a guy run perspective and forward,
or you can run one off the jackplate and one
forward up front or three sick like whatever he wants
to do. But a two transducer limit, personally, I don't
(22:52):
want to see it go to where you know, it's
five scopes. It's a sixty two salt water up front,
a thirty four perspective, a thirty four forward, and two
sixty twos two thirty fours off each side of the
jack plate.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
Are the rigs in MLF just as wild with the
amount of electronic worst.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
So I watched Chris Aldan's video it's way worse on
the on the bass master side. Oh yeah, I mean
as far as the extent of where they took the transducers.
And it's a lot of the Japanese guys and the
BFT guys see the Japanese guys, so they get the
idea like, oh I need that because he's got that,
and it's like fomo. But you know, like Brian Schmidt,
he has four garments.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
Fifty thousand dollars rig that's the pictures that everybody's seeing.
That's right all over it.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
Yeah, but that's where it's going, right, So when is
it going to end? Right? So that's where he's talking
about Spade.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
Yeah, he finished fifty fourth at Teleda.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
That's what I was going to get at the other
That's what I was gonna.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
Get me is like, you can have all that stuff
on your boat, but if you don't know how to
use it effectively, or you don't want to use it effectively.
Joseph Webster told me in one of his tournaments at
Toledo Ben He's like Spencer. For the first time in
my career, I like to spin a round in my hand,
and I stared at that screen all three days that
I was able to.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
I did the same thing at Toledo because we were
there before them, and I finished like sixteenth, had the
bikes to almost make the top ten. But it was
my first tournament I ever just solely used scope, but
I knew I had to do it to compete those
fish out there. Rome just roam in the timber.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
Talk about Red Crest. That's one of the reasons why
you're in. You're obviously an Alabama guy. I'd love to
have both of you on the podcast more if we
can get you guys in. Normally West Logan's here, but
you're really in town because of the Bass Pro Tour. Yeah,
and Red Crest, which is your major major tournament. This
was huge, it is it is coming to Lay Lake.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
Now you're in. You're a North Alabama guy. How are
you going to translate to some of these central Alabama
lakes like lay You.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
Know, I'm actually a river rat. So my history is
I didn't come up like hey, so hayting about turned
twenty one and has already won two major events. When
I was twenty one, I got my first bass boat,
So I was like way behind a lot. A lot
of people don't know this about me. I accelerateed really
fast once I got a bass boat. But I was
a bank fisherman for a long time, and then when
(24:55):
I started fishing what Mike cost twenty twenty one. In
college below Wilson Damn on Pickwick, we would go out
and a fourteen foot John boat in the twenty five
horse and run our butts up to though that blow
that dam across the tailwaters and we would drift around
and just fish current. So I'm very familiar with current,
and that's kind of where I cut my teeth. So
the Koser River is a current system, so I feel
very comfortable.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
So you're hoping that they're pulling water.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Oh, they're pulling water. We got a lot of rain.
I look, they're running three generators this morning.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
I'm willing to bet that when I tune into Red
Crest that I'm gonna see mister Salisman at the base
of the dam.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
High odds. Yeah, look, here's the deal. I'm not love that.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
I think it's great for you.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
Yeah, I mean, I'm you got it, just like you
gotta fish to win. I feel like I gotta fish
my strength, and that's my strength. As far as I
can catch them in the grass. Obviously, I'm from Gunners
will have one in the grass, and there's grass on Lay. Now,
if I feel like I can't win at the dam,
you won't see me there. But you gotta go and
practice and do this and that where it's they're running
three generators this morning, pulling thirty thousand cfs, which is
(25:54):
a lot for Lay Lake. Now we're supposed to get
five to six more inches of rain between now. Inside
they might have the spillways open. Who know.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
Official practice starts Sunday.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
Sunday. So here's what's gonna happen. We're gonna get a
huge influx of current. The water's gonna money up. There's
gonna be a lot of current, and there's gonna be
like a gradual draw down of current throughout the event.
How that affects the fish, I don't know. I'm not
really from the Couser River. I just know what the
current's gonna do, just because I've fished rivers in my
whole life. So I gotta get up there and that
what that means is gonna change. So the only people
(26:25):
who are really gonna know how to catch them are
people that know how to adjust in current. If you're
fishing current now on the lower end, the water's gonna
come up. You know, these large mouth watertown's probably already
sixty degrees they're warming. These large mouths are gonna come
up to the banks really fast. So that's something else
else you gotta think about. And that's no. You know
in grass in the bank, no scope situation might be
(26:47):
frog situation.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
Okay, are you going? Are you gonna lay it out
right now? The red Crest will be one off scope?
Speaker 2 (26:54):
No?
Speaker 1 (26:56):
Is that because Jacob Wheelers in it?
Speaker 2 (26:58):
No? He even when I'm Here's the thing when I
when you think of a scoper, when I define a scoper,
there's someone who just stares at it and falls an
individual bass, right, But someone who's like a true fisherman
is going to use that technology to help them supplement
their fish catches every day. Like if I'm at the dam,
I'm gonna use it to see a rock that I
want to hit with my swim bait. So it's going
(27:19):
to be utilized regardless. If I'm on a dock, I'm
going to look under that dock.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
Well, the percentage wise, you're not going to see somebody
one hundred percent on it, they're going to have to
move around where.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
There guys one hundred percent using scope. If there's timber
on lay when I went down in pre practice, someone
will probably figure out a bite that timber just staring
at fish.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
So some of the major tournaments that I've been a
part of and have just been around on either the
media side or fishing side, there's usually guys that are
fishing the tournament and they're like, this is so and
So's tournament, Like they are going to kick some ass
on this tournament. Do you feel that about Red crest Or?
Is it really free for all? No?
Speaker 2 (27:56):
I feel that there's a I've heard a guy you
find Dalton I think it's so, what's what's that kid's name.
Speaker 3 (28:02):
Dalton Head?
Speaker 2 (28:02):
Okay, Daltonhead. I've heard a lot of buddies, a little
a lot of highballt dalton Head. Apparently there's a hammer
over there also.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
But do you think that matters? Like if somebody is
really well known for a lake, like winning their local lake, it.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
Does for sure. It's just history, right, and you know
some lakes are very like repeatable. Gunners is a lake
that changes every year. Cus the river a little bit
more predictable from what I hear. That's why you see
a lot of same guys.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
Winning cause is also hard because you can't really replicate
what you do on the Cusa and move that to
other lakes. It can be really difficult. It can't d
up doing Cusa stuff and go somewhere else.
Speaker 3 (28:35):
It can be get different hints from different things that
you learn on the cusa and apply them.
Speaker 2 (28:39):
It's fish at the end. You know they get around docks,
they get around grass, they chatter a still stupid. You
know that you want to chatterbaate, you won't get to
catch bass. So anyway, Dustin Connell, it's you know, Daltonhead.
But here's the deal. Connell has won more tournaments on
land than I think anyone in this tournament and below
the dam. So if you had to put money on
a horse, you have to bet on him. Now. I'm
(29:01):
never want to bet against myself, but you just know
what you're getting into and if.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
That probably fuels your fire a little bit.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
Ohays, I want to beat him so bad, right yeah,
I mean just wise.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
That's how it is when any guy gets into a
tournament and they see pros on the list, like they
may not win the tournament. But you were talking about
that BFL. You gost sixteen pounds, you finished one hundred. Yeah,
there were ninety nine guys that were like I bet
Ryan Salzman.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
Yeah, one percent.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
That for them is the tournament. If they went out
my career, I'm happy to catch two bass. If I
beat anybody on the list, I feel like, all right,
I'm doing all right.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
So as far as the mentality aspect, I stopped looking
at names a long time ago, like this is great
to talk about because we're on a podcast, But I
could care if KVD, Dust and Connell because it's not
about them. It's about you and the fish and try
and go do the best I can do. I don't
care where I finish. Like if I suck, I suck.
Now I'm mad for people.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
Then you shouldn't get caught in worrying about what other
people know.
Speaker 3 (29:54):
You got to go to go out. I have never
settle attitude, Never settle for whatever you do, and then
go out and as much way as possible every day,
like like every day at the Toyota. I mean I
knew I was doing good, but I wasn't sitting there
studying a leader war. Now it was like, I'm gonna
go tomorrow. I'm gonna catch as much weight as I can.
Like the second day, I had twenty five something and
I was telling my code. My cod's like, you're not
gonna leave this place, like no, I want to catch more,
(30:16):
like I'm not. I'm not. It's gunners, so you don't
want to lay off. And it doesn't matter who's behind
you or who's ahead of you.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
I want to catch. Tournament's about to end, like you
exhaust it for everything. Yeah, I mean that's got to
be hard on multi day tournaments though, because like you
catch them day one, you don't want to catch everything
day one. It's kind of that guide mentality. You want
to burn out your fish.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
Now on MLF it's different. So that's MLF is the
hardest thing I've ever done. I enjoy five fish because
I'm better at it, more consistent, but counts you have
to burn down everything every day, and once you burn
that down, you go find something else to burn down.
Once you burn that down, you go find another house
to burn down. You set it all on fire.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
Se Ryan Salizman with a lighter shift's about to go down.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
It's about to go down. So and then in a
perfect situation, you got a spot where you burn it
down and they build a new house the next day,
and then there's another one for you to burn down.
So that means more fisher are coming too.
Speaker 3 (31:10):
Well.
Speaker 1 (31:10):
Pyro Technic over there, yeah, yep, that's sure right, all right,
it's coming to Birmingham, Alabama. Lay Lake is the Lake
of Venue if you want to check that out. March
fourteenth through the seventeenth, They're doing a huge expo at
the BJCC. I'm going to be there for a couple
of the days, but we would love for you guys
to come over and then you guys actually do something
(31:31):
different so you don't have a typical way in, but
you do a postfish kind of run through where they
show you highlights to some of the catches. Everybody has
a camera.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
Yep, so I mean they're gonna have I think ten
cameras and they're gonna put them on the bit guys
who are obviously catching fish, and we come through the
arena at the end of the day. You can come
watch us. They drive us through the stage. You come on,
they interview us. If they have highlights from the day,
they're going to show those and then you know, sign
autographs with everyone that's there and just talk fishing. The
guys get cut if they take twenty on the third
(32:02):
day and then top ten on the fourth, and then
the guys that get cut are gonna be at the
expo just working booze, hanging out with anglers, talking fishing.
So we definitely encourage everyone to come out to the expo.
We also putting in at Beeswax. We'll get there at
seven am. Blast off is at seven thirty, and there's
just be a big crowd come see us off, you know,
cheer us on, and then head on over to the xpo.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
When when blast off is going on. Is there a
lot for people to do while they're there? Is it
literally just watching guys jump in the boat take off.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
Yeah, you know, you basically you pull up, you see
guys getting ready. They have a little tent set up
over there with the announcer. They got music playing, and
it's just a really cool vibe and atmosphere. You know,
a lot of times I predict there's probablynna be a
little fog, you know, music playing, get a little goose
fun in the morning. Oh yeah, oh yeah, you know,
it's just you know, We work all year to get
(32:51):
to this event, and it's just a high energy event.
So it's just it's a great thing to come and
check out. And for guys like Hayden, this is where
he wants to go. When I was young, I would
go to every bass Master Classic. If Ray Crest was there,
I would have went. But it gives me something to like,
I want to be there, Yeah, and I motivates fuel
free fire.
Speaker 3 (33:06):
Yes, yeah, I'll be there. We're actually doing Auburn versus
Alabama little face off and waiting or doing like the
little way and thing before y'all whenever y'all come in
the second day.
Speaker 2 (33:14):
So oh really, Red Chris ye Man.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
Yeah, I didn't even mention that. You know, Hayden is
a national champion with Auburn and just absolutely destroyed at
the last couple of years. And you're getting ready to graduate.
Speaker 3 (33:30):
Not not yet.
Speaker 2 (33:31):
No, he's trying to he's trying to prolong his college.
Speaker 3 (33:34):
I'm a junior this year, that six year red shirt
freshman thing. Yeah, next year it will be senior year,
and then the next year will be the fifth year
and then hopefully we're done by them.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
Dude, I did fit five years.
Speaker 3 (33:47):
I don't know if I want to stay five years.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
Here's the deal. I was just getting into fishing and
I did also do RTC and I commissioned in the military.
What caused the five years actually broke my arm when
I was supposed to go off to my army training
and I couldn't come. So it caused me to extend,
which caused me to get the fish another year before
I had to start in my real life. So it
was a pretty good deal.
Speaker 1 (34:05):
If you're get to watch Redcrest on TV and you're like, well,
who's Ryan Salizman, How am I going to find him?
Look for the boat that's got the Hawaiian flowers? Where
did that come from?
Speaker 2 (34:13):
So I'm wearing a hat right now, and it's a
company called Shaka Kai. They're based out of Florida. It's
kind of a Hawaiian lifestyle theme and the outdoors with.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
What vibe fits that, right, So this is how you
partnered with them.
Speaker 2 (34:24):
No, so this is a really funny story. If anybody
watching has ever watching Mikey Balls, if you haven't, go
to YouTube, look up Mikey Balls and he.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
Has a hub gunn.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
He's not that bad, but you get the idea, but
he wear he used to wear a Hawaiian hat all
the time and I filled with Mikey several times, and
when I was filming with him, I got one of
these hats. I saw an ad on Instagram or something
and I wore it and he was just cracking up
because I was trolling them and they saw that in
the video. We got a lot of views and they
sold the hats and were like, hey, man, thanks for that.
Here's a couple of hats. And I was like, if
you like that, you know, here's a proposal. I would
(34:58):
love to partner with you. Guys. Centem a proposal and
they liked it and we've been partners ever since for
like the last four years.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
That's such a big piece of information. Like, I know,
that's a funny story. But if you're a young fisherman
or even somebody that loves to fish and you want
to get to that level of sponsorship, trying to gain
sponsorship is the that's more of a job than fishing itself.
Speaker 2 (35:17):
Yeah, so the professional side. What people don't know about
professional fishing. They're like, oh, scope's easy. Even if it
is easy, guess what, we got to run a business.
So we got to run social media, we got to
manage finances, and we got to make sure everything's taken
care at home when you're not there. So there's just
a lot of revolving pieces. Oh also part time trucker,
So I drove over like thirty five thousand miles last
(35:40):
year just on my personal vehicle.
Speaker 1 (35:41):
And you also don't get everything that you guys have
for free. That's like a big misnomer.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
No, you know, even if we do, like once you
get to a certain level, even if you do get
your sponsor product for free and then hopefully you're getting
paid for you know, your representation of the sponsor. So
I'm sponsored by Uzuri, have a paid deal with them,
free product. But also I'm expected to do certain things.
I'm expected to post certain amount of times a month,
I'm expected to do so many videos, I'm expected to
(36:09):
do so many shows. And then let's just say, okay,
so you have that for one company, let's add fifteen companies.
You have to do all those requirements, meet all of
that every month, all while fishing and trying to compete
at the highest level possible.
Speaker 3 (36:23):
Yeah, and you're still having a fish as many days
as you can and be on the water just to
stay just as competitive.
Speaker 1 (36:28):
You're saying it's easy, Oh, it's easy.
Speaker 2 (36:32):
What's great about? Like, if you're going to be a
professional fisherman, it has to be your lifestyle. I don't
feel like I work because I love taking pictures and videos.
I think I have sixty thousand media pieces on my
phone right now, but I genuinely enjoy it, like it's
what I do. So whatever you're good at, make sure
to capitalize on it. Mine has been social media. I
haven't come out the gates swinging and just went and everything.
(36:52):
I went a few here and there, but I'm really
good with social media, so I'm balanced. So if I
suck at fishing, guess what, I'm still promoting.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
We both do an incredible job. Hayden, congratulations on all
your success on Gunnersville. It does not fool anybody around here.
Anybody that knows Hayden Marbut's name knows that he's the
king of Gunnersville. And hold up, Oh come on, I've
seen it all over the place.
Speaker 2 (37:15):
Here's the deal.
Speaker 1 (37:15):
I'll call him the new King of Gunnersville.
Speaker 3 (37:17):
Here's the Those things don't last forever. Just a couple
of weeks in that stuff comes to an end.
Speaker 2 (37:22):
We all have eras he is on a run right now.
But there's a lot of people. Look, there's a lot
of goats on Gunnersville. He's his name is being added.
He's on the list temporarily right now. But but I
think he will he will, he will stay there. But
there's a lot of guys like Alex Davis, John Henry
(37:43):
one of them. He's passed away. But he won a
lot he wanted Toyota, He's won several other events. I've
won my sheriff tournaments on gunners never a major one,
but a lot of tournaments on Gunnersville. But he's definitely
been added to a class of elie anglers on Gunnersville.
We'll call him the king. That's disrespecting a lot.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
I'm not the one that says it right.
Speaker 3 (38:02):
There's nobody good enough to be the king. I see
what people say, donor she will changes too much. There's
no one that just consistently wins your round. Yeah, that's
what happens. You get on something, you run with it.
Roder does you just roll with it and enjoy it
because like you know, and you know, it doesn't last forever,
and you try to make it last as long as
you can. That's all you can do. Like, I've enjoyed
(38:23):
it and like it. Everyone's like, boy, well if you're
sucking dumb like, trust me, I know this doesn't last.
Speaker 1 (38:28):
I hope you're enjoying it, but I also hope that
you're saving as much money as you can spend it
where you need it, because man, that runs out just
as quick as the love of being a king of
a lake.
Speaker 2 (38:37):
Yeah, you know, I mean. And here's the deal. And
I know, Hayden. You know, guys looking on the outside,
and that's why you see those comments, they idolize that
and make a name and guys like Hayden and I
to get as good as he is and as I am.
You don't that does. That's not enough motivation to get
as good as you are. So he doesn't let that
bother him. I promise you, I don't let that bother
me because it comes and goes, you know. So the
(39:00):
biggest thing advice I would give to Hayden is to
take that money and just use what you got going
and work on sponsorships and get a good base going
and focus on your social media, and you'll be fine.
Speaker 1 (39:11):
Guys, thanks for joining me on lines and times.
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