Ep. 83: Thunder-Nuggets Game 7, Sixers Draft Outlook, NBA Offseason Preview, and More - 05/16/25

Sam Oshtry and Sean Barnard talk #Knicks-#Celtics Game 6, #Nuggets-#Thunder Game 7, #Sixers draft outlook, #NBA offseason preview, and more!

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
What's going on? Everybody. Welcome into picks and Roll on
Fox Sports. The Gambler and iHeart Radio. Sam Austri here
alongside Sean Bernard. Sean, we have the best two words
in sports coming up this weekend, Game seven Nuggets Thunder.
We got the Nick Celtics Game six tonight to get
to a lot of other storylines. It's been a wild,
wild week in the NBA for a ton of different reasons. Sean,

(00:22):
how are you.

Speaker 2 (00:23):
I'm doing great, Sam Austrian, You're absolutely right. A game
seven and a series that has lived up through every
bit of the hype there. So I think I kind
of forgot about what a high intensity stretch of the
season this is with the NBA has not been on
the back burner, but the Sixers kind of messing up
my timeline for what to expect here. So I've been
loving it.

Speaker 1 (00:40):
They would have been out by now anyway, Master expiration day.

Speaker 2 (00:44):
That's a great point. But yeah, I've been all in.
That was a great game last night. Very excited for
what's to come tonight with Knicks for Celtics and plenty
more to get into it.

Speaker 1 (00:51):
Yes, so so picks and Roll here on Fox Sports,
The Gambler and iHeart Media presented by tick pick, the
best place to get tickets for any major event going
to Nick Celtics want to go up to New York
for Game six if you're gonna be out out west,
not really out west, but in Oklahoma City West from
here in Oklahoma City for Nuggets Thunder Game seven. Eagles

(01:11):
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(01:32):
dot com. Now, all right, let's get into last night's game,
Game six. You can call it the Julians Strawther game
because he was he was just phenomenal. I don't know
where you want to start exactly, but I'll give you
the floors. The floor is yours takeaways from last night's
Nuggets Thunder Game six.

Speaker 2 (01:48):
Yeah, I guess I'll walk through like my biggest takeaways
for starters I thought Jamal Murray really set the tone
in that game. He was excellent in the start, and
there was a lot made about his illness of not
being one hundred percent, but he looked like the Jamal
Murray that we know in love come playoff time that
the start of that game really asserted himself in that
first quarter, in the early minutes, shake Gildess, Alexander, the
fallacies were definitely a problem there and picking up that

(02:09):
fourth one right before halftime on a really frustrating and
frankly dumb foul. I get it, it happens. We've all
been there where you're frustrated to get the ball stolen
and then you reach out of nowhere. But you can't
be doing that on that type of stage. So that
certainly shifted the script of that game, I felt. And
of course Nikola Joki is just going through processing the
game as well as we expect. And then you mentioned it,
Julian Strawther. The Nuggets need somebody to step up outside

(02:31):
of kind of the guys that you do know, and
Michael Porter Junior is still going through his struggles. Shot
the ball a little bit better last night. He was
on an zero for thirteen stretch before he finally broke
out of it. So nice to get a little bit
of help from the supporting cast, but they are going
to need help from these random type role players, the
X factor type guys and Strawther was that last night,
So I thought the Nuggets showed a little bit of
that championship pedigree. Nikola Jokich still shined as the best

(02:53):
player on the floor, and it was an awesome game
all around. I thought this series, it wouldn't have done
it justice if it did not go to a game seven.
So I'm happy things down as they did last night.

Speaker 1 (03:01):
This this always felt like it was going to a
game seven. And this series is so interesting because it's
the classic like this the Thunder. This is their playoff scars,
in their playoff battles they need to go to. They
are a young, up and coming group against the best
player in the world. This is the best team in
the league right now. The Thunder also one of the
best teams historically if you look at some of their

(03:21):
win totals, their net ratings, all of that. Like, in
terms of just their statistics, they're one of the best
teams of all time. You could say they have to
obviously win a championship to put the bow on that,
but against one of the best players also you could
say of all time, but certainly one of the best
players of last the best player of the last half
decade in Nikole Jkic. So when you have this matchup

(03:41):
against they're not the defending champs, but this team won
a championship two years ago. This Corps won a championship.
Jamal Murray, Aaron Gordon, Nikole Jokic. That is a championship
group against the team chasing that. So the storylines between
these two groups have just been awesome. This is why
it's been such a great series and the basket ball
has been such a high level, the adjustments, all of it.
But the story for me is it's not about Nicole

(04:02):
Jokic or Shay Gilgis Alexander Like, those two guys have
been good, not great, Honestly, I think both of them
are struggled at times, and part of that is because
the defensive coverages the other team's strong at them, like
the Thunder just crowding Jokic time and time again, throwing
so much size of him, which we see he struggles
a little bit. I mean he had two forty plus
point games, so we can't say struggles, but relative for Jokich,

(04:25):
he's had a couple of duds in there, and then
Shay same thing, like when they go zone they're crowding
his drives and he struggled at times too, especially in
the clutch earlier in the series. This series, to me,
is not about them. Those two guys are going to
show up in game seven. It's about the role players.
It's about the others and both of them. Which is
so interesting in the series is you have no idea
which supporting cast is going to show up night in

(04:46):
and night out. Like last night, the Nuggets were Their
supporting cast was phenomenal. Jamal Murray's been great all series.
He and Michael Porter Junior at a decent game. He's
really been struggling, of course. Julian Straw the you had
other guys. Christian Brown had twenty three. We had other
guys step up, whereas for the Thunder, other guys didn't.
And in previous games it had been Chet was playing

(05:07):
well and Check played pretty well. Last night. Jena Williams
has been really bad the last three games. Yeah, but
he had a thirty two bawl in game three, I
believe it was even in a loss, Louke Dort had
had some great moments, Like they've they're so deep and
they so many different guys step up, but they're also
young and inexperience, where you don't know who's going to
be there night in the night out, and that's been

(05:27):
the story of the series. It's which of the help
of the superstars MVP candidates are going to show up,
And that's the question going in games game seven, and
whichever supporting cast does is going to advance to the
conference finals.

Speaker 2 (05:39):
Yeah, no, you're absolutely right about that. And the supporting
cast conversation is interesting, Like we talk so much about
stars in the NBA, and both these guys absolutely fit
the bill and Nicola Jokic and Jay Ghos Alexander, but
I'm not sure that either of their co stars sure
like fully do Jamal Murray has been great and historically
has been a riser in the playoffs. He has been
a guy that has lived up to the level. Why
you do look kind of below that. It is a

(06:01):
whole bunch of question marks. You have zero idea what
version of Russell Westbrook is showing up at a night
the night's basis, you have zero idea of Michael Porter
Junior is going to shoot five for six, for three
or zero for seven, because he's done both in this series.
Here when looking at the Thunder here, looking long term,
I still have my questions about Jalen Williams being fully
the guy. He's been excellent, He's been far above what
anything could have hoped for when drafting him out of

(06:22):
Santa Clara there, but there is an inconsistency that's really frustrating.
He was excellent in that Game three, as you mentioned,
but outside of that, it's been really sporadic talk.

Speaker 1 (06:30):
Let's talk about Jalleen Williams for a second, because when
we talked a few months ago, like we both said,
what's the one thing that could hold the Thunder back?
And it's the secondary scoring. It's the help. And that's
been Jaylen Williams because we saw it against the MAVs.
They saw it against the MAVs last year in that series.
We saw forty two percent from the field and he
was a big reason why they lost this series. He's
shooting thirty three percent from the field, twenty one percent

(06:51):
from three and last three games he's ten for forty three,
like it's just not good enough. He's still engaged defensively.
He actually had a pretty good playmaking game last night
y at tennis, But that's just they need secondary scoring.
Part of the reason why I didn't think it was
going to be a problem this year earlier this season
because they had so much depth, and they're so deep
where other guys can lift him up when he's not
playing well. And that still might be the case whether

(07:12):
they are so they have so much depth and if
he struggles in a game seven, it's enough to win.
Do you have any confidence in Jalen Williams heading into
a game seven?

Speaker 2 (07:21):
I can still see a world where he pulls one
out like he's a good player, there's no doubt about it.
And I still think like overall, but without being too
harsh on him, he's been very good defensively. I thought
he's impacted the game rebounding the ball like he's still
done a lot of good for this team. But I
do kind of think he won't be the guy that
when we're writing the story of this series a couple
months or weeks down the line, that we're speaking too
highly of him. I gotta also admit Chet Holmgren has

(07:42):
left me underwhelmed more than i'd like to say. I'm
a huge check guy, and like defensively, I thought he's
had some real flashes. His rim protection was great last night,
But there it feels to me like he's sacrificing in
terms of like trying to be a good teammate in
a way where they need you to be the guy man.
They need you to step up and generate some stuff offensively,
and he really has. There's been a couple like fake
Dho's where he's attacked the basket hard, a couple three

(08:03):
point looks that he's capitalized on. But I think there's
more to Chet than he's really unveiled, and I think
he kind of has to get over this, like fitting
into the system, playing team basketball, and just take over
when the moment commands it.

Speaker 1 (08:13):
Yeah, he doesn't punish small defenders as much as I
would like him to. Obviously he's skinny frame, but he's
a pretty good touch around the rim, so he's not
punishing small defenders in the post much I would like
him do. And his finishing has been a little questionable times.
Even he had nineteen points. That's a pretty good game,
but there's a few finishes where it's like, these are
just finishes you have to make, and it's oversized Nicole Jogic.
Obviously he's not some rim protecting shot blocker, but he's

(08:35):
a big dude and he's hard to finish over so
that contributes to it. But yeah, I kind of agree
that I've been he' said good statistical outputs, but I've
been a little underwhelmed with chet. But look, the story
is the bench and the depth Yeacause let's go back
to Julian Strawther for a second. He was pretty much
out of this rotation, like Peyton Watson was playing more

(08:56):
than him as the seventh man, and it really felt
like it was a six man rotation with a little
bit of Peyton Watson and then Julian Strawther played sporadic minutes,
but this was He played twenty minutes last night, by far,
the most that he's played this series. And there was
a stretch early in the fourth quarter when the Nuggets
went to a lineup with Julian Strawther, Peyton Watson, and
Russ Westbrook. That was the first like three or four
minutes of the fourth quarter. I was just sitting there going.

(09:18):
This is the time the Thunder had to capitalize and comebacks.
They were trailing at that point, and they didn't. The
Nuggets extended their lead. And who was on the floor
for the Thunder It was Shay Lou dort car Alex Caruso,
Jalen Williams and Case and Wallace's it's a small lineup,
and I would have probably gone big if I was
if I was the Thunder. But that's still a good
lineup and a lineup that you should be able to

(09:40):
cut the lead and gain some momentum. The Nuggets won
those minutes. Like the whole thing this whole series has
been the Nuggets don't have a bench, they don't have depth,
right they they can't give Yokic any break. And Tim
Legler said on the broadcast, where it was like they
just gave Jokic another two minute break, a guy where
they haven't had a more than a day off in
between games in over two weeks and now he has

(10:00):
this extended break to start the fourth quarter, comes back rested.
The Thunder had to win those minutes and they didn't.
And so that's what's it's been. The thunders bench in
the Thunder's depth this whole series and now the Nuggets
in the game six. Somehow finally we're able to pull
it off because of their bench.

Speaker 2 (10:16):
Yeah, and to kind of set the stage for Strawther specifically.
So he clocked last night officially nineteen minutes and thirty
one seconds. Across the playoffs, his next highest has been
fourteen to fifteen. And we're talking about game logs of
four minutes and forty four seconds, nine to fifty three, one,
fifty six, ten, thirty. Yeah, inactive for four of those games,
and even going back to the regular season, he played

(10:37):
nine minutes and fifty two seconds in the final game
of the season, eleven minutes seventeen, ten to thirty four,
just fifty four seconds, and then a straight inactive streak
of looking like about twelve games there. So this was
a guy that they basically just threw to the fire
out of nowhere, and boy did he step up. I've
always liked Strawther, thought he was a fun college player.
I'm like, I'm glad he got a chance there. I
kind of thought they would go with the Jalen Pickett

(10:57):
direction last night. There was a little bit of conversation
about that on the broadcast as well, and I thought
that might been a little bit of the story.

Speaker 1 (11:02):
He hasn't played at all though, like at least Straw,
the's got sporadic minutes. You don't think it hasn't played
a second.

Speaker 2 (11:07):
I don't think true. But the second half of the
season that we're relying on him somewhat heavily, Like they
kind of threw him a ton of those and I mean, yeah.

Speaker 1 (11:14):
Calvin boost direction and he's gone, that's fair.

Speaker 2 (11:17):
But I mean they pushed the right buttons last night,
so I can't.

Speaker 1 (11:19):
I think Michael Malone is watching these games like when
and like Julians Straw that plays really well. Guy he
didn't really trust. He's like, damn it, Like like, what
do you think he's like watching these games.

Speaker 2 (11:28):
I think he's room for the thunder straight up. I
think he's saying, And I get part of that's probably
hard because he has like such deep relationships with this
guy like Nicola Yok has has been his dude for
the whole duration of his career, so that might like
overcome the feelings. But like Michael Malone and I did
have a chance to interview him and do his pregame
press conference once the dude's a gangster man. The dude
is like a no nonsense, shoots you straight like, carries

(11:50):
himself with some intimidation. I kind of take it as
like that dude sits there and watches these games in
spite of I don't want this guy to do my
job better than I can do it. I don't want
David Adoman to look like I could have done exactly
what he is doing with this team. I think that's
probably what's going through his mind. Who knows that there
might be like in his heart him rooting for these
guys a little bit more. But my gut feeling is
he probably watched these games in spite and for the thunder.

Speaker 1 (12:12):
And that's part of the problem with NBA coaching right now,
is that you need a guy who's more relaxed and
more of a player's coach, Like a guy who's that
intense for that much of a season you're not really
gonna last. And you kind of saw him wear thin
and his voice in locker room didn't have that much
of an impact anymore. So when that wears thin, it's like,
all right, this guy is not the voice. He's useless
to us. He's replaceable, Like a lot of these NBA

(12:32):
head coaches are or at least how that's yeah, that's
how the front office perceives them at this point. And
he's gone, and David Itelman is getting a contract no
matter what happens. Oh in Game seven, he's earned. He's
earned to be the head coach of this team. But
all right, let's talk about Game seven for a second.
So the line opened up at eight and a half under,
which was an absurd line. Obviously got bet down immediately.
It's in at seven and a half right now. Just

(12:54):
an absurd line for number one. Nikola Jokic is the
best player in the world, no doubt, number two. These
series have been so close, and every single game in
this series has been so close, even the ones that
kind of explode in the end where you can look
at the box score and you're like, all right, they
won by ten or twelve points. They were close up
until the last three or two minutes essentially, So that

(13:15):
was an absurd line. A couple of things about Game
seven before we talk about it. First off, I don't
want to hear anything about home team advantage. I've been
saying this to you for months. Road teams have won
nine of the last fourteen game sevens. There's no such
thing as home court advantage. And I know it's gonna
be electric in Oklahoma City, but there's no such thing
as home court advantage in the NBA, in the playoffs anymore.

(13:37):
It doesn't exist. It just doesn't because road teams have
had so much success. This isn't college basketball where these
guys get guys get kind of frazzled by intense atmospheres.
I mean, these the pros who have been doing it
for a long time. They home court advantage is pretty
much it means nothing. So I know that's factored into
the line a little bit, but that means nothing to me.
The next thing that people are gonna say is Jokic

(13:58):
doesn't lose game sevens. Like you have the best player
on the floor, he's gonna win game seven. I'd like
to remind everyone what happened last year against the Wolves,
where the Nuggets were actually at home and they had
a twenty point lead in that game, and the Wolves
come back in Game seven of the second round and
lose that and obviously the Nuggets lose that game or
sent home pack. So yeah, of course, Yoki's one game

(14:19):
seven against the Clippers last round. But this idea that
just because you've the best player on the floor and
just because Jokic is that good that he can't lose
a Game seven, it's absurd and so that doesn't follow
any lodge. So with all that, I'll set the stage
for you. Forget the money line, who you have winning
the game? What do you think about this line and
who would you lean one way or the other?

Speaker 2 (14:38):
Yeah, I do think it's a crazy line here, and
we've seen the numbers sit at that for a good
portion of this series, the eight and a half to
the seven and a half, which has been insane to me, Like,
I think this should be closer to we look at
the Celtics and next line tonight, which is like a
two and a half line that feels more appropriate for
this Game seven matchup to me, as from a peer
betting perspective, I think you lay the Nuggets to cover
the plus seven and a half there that I do

(14:58):
think this is a ballgame, and that's a pretty good
insurance policy there. I do think they have a legitimate
chance of winning this game, and when you get that
type of cushion, I'm willing to roll with that. So
from a pure betting perspective, I do like the plus
seven and a half. There With that being said, I
do kind of feel like the Thunder take this game.
I understand Kola Yokich is the best player on the floor,
but this has felt a bit like a War of
Attrition series to me. And we've seen the Julians Strauthers

(15:20):
step up. We've seen this team be able to elevate
around Yokis to an extent, but it's tough to do
it this many times in a row. The crowd will
be kicking, and I know you don't care about that
to the fullest extent, but I do think it matters
when you're running in these just lines of different players.
The lou Dorts the case and wilas Is the Isaiah Joe's,
the guys that can step up at home here. I
think the Thunder it's going to be a bit too

(15:40):
much talent that they're able to outlast this Nuggets team.
I do think it's going to be a battle. I
do think it's gonna be a great game. I am
all over the plus seven and a half. I think
that's the way to bet it, but I do think
the Thunder end up getting their postseason scars and finding
a way to advance in this one.

Speaker 1 (15:52):
I realize I'm kind of going to be a hypocrite
when we talk about the Nick Celtics series, because I
definitely will mention the crowd at MSG what it's going
to be tonight. But still it's the Celtics have a
lot of success at MSG and on the road in general.
But but in terms of this game, I think you're
right where I trust the Thunders others more than I
do the Uggets. And we've seen games where Julian Strawler
can step up. We've seen games Aaron Gordon plays really well.

(16:16):
Jamal Murray's been awesome all series. I just think the
Thunder of so much depth words. If Jaylen Williams he
has to play well, there's more pressure on him this
in this game, this game seven than anyone else on
the floor. But if he's not, they have other options
to go to, whether it's Keson Wallaks, Alex Caru, Cason Wallace,
Alex Caruso, Aaron Wiggins, ludor all these different options. Their
double big lineup with Chet and Isaiah Hartenstein. Jalen Williams

(16:39):
the second he's been playing a ton and he's been
playing really well. He's earning himself some money.

Speaker 2 (16:45):
I might argue he's been the best defender of Jokic
that the thunder have had in this series.

Speaker 1 (16:48):
Yeah, I mean Isaiah Hartenstein's been playing pretty well. Even
if Yoga is getting his he's making it difficult, like
it's not easy. I do think you're right in stretches though,
he's been way better than Chet. I mean bullies Chet
every time he sees that matchup, but there's throwing so
much size at him. It's and whether it's Jalen Williams
or Chet, those guys are kind of like lurking and
floating around. So if he's never really in like single

(17:10):
coverage jok I will say the like, look at who
the Nuggets go up and down that roster and who
you trust beyond Jamal Murray, Michael Ford Jr. Michael Porter
Junior has been really bad this series. And I know
it's the shoulder thing, like I get it, that's an excuse,
but he's still out there playing and he's been really bad.
And you also look at a big reason why the
Nuggets lost the Wolves in last year's second round. A

(17:31):
lot of it was because Michael Porter junr and the
secondary scoring that he couldn't provide. He's really struggled in
that series. Russell Westbrook has been awful.

Speaker 2 (17:39):
The last three games in the rim.

Speaker 1 (17:42):
Yeah, seriously, you're You're getting like they're leaving him wide
open on threes and it's like, all right, just stay
in the corner or cut every single time he's he's
turning the ball over. He's trying to do too much.
He thinks he's back and he's like, Okay, I guess
when he's back in Oklahoma City. He thinks he's like
Oklahoma City Russ and he's not at all. So he's
just been doing way too much and he's been bad again.

(18:05):
I don't trust Christian Braun. He's had playoff experience. He's
a national champion. He won to title the first year
with the Nugget where he actually contributed in that finals
even as a rookie, so he has experience. Again, I
don't trust their role players like I do the Thunder.
So I'm gonna it's not about Jokic for as shit,
It's just not I don't care about their two best players.
And I'll be interesting to see when the actually hand
out that MVP trop I know people were talking about

(18:27):
that that on the timeline right now, but I just
don't trust the Nuggets, the Nuggets role players and their
secondary scoring like I do the Thunder. So with that,
let me ask you a question, because there's always a
role player that steps up in game seven, in game seven.
So you saw it with Buddy Healed against the Rockets
when he had thirty three in that Game seven. Lou

(18:48):
Dort actually in his rookie season, in a Game seven
against the Rockets in twenty twenty in the bubble, he
had a thirty bawl. He was a rookie, and if
you remember that series, lou Dort couldn't shoot that season
when he was a rookie, and they were leaving him
open essentially, and he had a thirty bowl was drilling threes,
and that was kind of like, Okay, lou Dort has arrived,
even though it was in the bubble. Is lou Dort

(19:08):
the guy that's gonna if you think the Thunder are
gonna win, who will be the role player or even
a guy off the bench that will step up and
be like, all right, this was X's game.

Speaker 2 (19:18):
Yeah, you beat me to the puncher because lou Dort
was gonna be my guy, and that court is sorta
was the case. In Game five, we saw the same thing.
And I know this is oversimplifying it to an extent,
but so much of playoff basketball comes purely down to
one coach deciding which guy they're leaving open and whether
or not that guy hit shots. Lou Dort has quite
clearly been the guy for the Thunder for stretches that
Denver said, We'll roll the dice and live and die

(19:40):
with how he shoots. And we've seen the ups and downs.
We've seen the two for nine games seems the oh
for seven games. But I think lou Dort, with that
home crowd, the dude with that battles the way he did,
he can knock down enough. I mean he hit four
to three pointers in Game five, three of them like
crucial in that third and fourth quarter there that were
electric as far as the game goes. So I think
lou Dort is the guy that steps up once again,
and like, I have more faith that he can step

(20:02):
up and deliver than I do with the Denver options
for that. And when you mentioned Russell Westbrook, we talked
about this a little bit with Jonathan Kuminga, But I
think they have a similar mentality that hurts them to
an extent of like when they feel disrespected or you know,
I'm going to prove everyone wrong. I'm taking on the world,
and I think that's just like a downhill cycle. Russ,
to his credit, has been pretty excellent for this Nuggets

(20:23):
team throughout the duration of the series. He's slipping a
little bit more and more into that mindset I fell at.
This series has progressed, and I do worry that that's
gonna hurt the Nuggets in Game seven too.

Speaker 1 (20:31):
Yeah, it's interesting you mentioned that strategy because that's exactly
the Thunder doing successfully. And you could say successfully or not,
but they're executing that well where they're crowding Jokic on
his touches, they're taking away Murray, and then they're even
taking away Aaron Gordon. Like a lot of times what
you see with the Nuggets be so successful and is
you hit Nicole Jokic on the short roll and you
have that little oop to Aaron Gordon. They're taking that

(20:53):
away too. So they're taking Aaron Gordon away in the dunker,
taking away Jokic or not taking him away, but crowding
amongst drives making it difficult taking and really putting their
defensive energy into Murray. And both those guys are playing well,
but they're saying Michael Porter Junior, hit shots beat us,
Christian Brown hit shots beat us, Russell Westbrook hit shots
beat us, and that's you might die by that strategy.

(21:14):
And they're heading to a game seven. It's been rough
a couple of games this year. And if in game seven,
if those guys Brus Westbrook hits three threes, the Nuggets
a win in the Basspoka. But I think that's the
strategy you have to live and die with, so so
I respect it. In terms of the role player stepping up,
I agree that I think it could be Lou Dort
for sure. I'm gonna go Aaron Wiggins. Actually he hasn't

(21:34):
had the best series, but he's had moments. I've loved
watching him all year. Like you can say, Case and Wallace.
Alex Cruso obviously could have a huge game. I trust
him more than more than most. Aaron Wiggins is so talented.
I mean, he's a great shooter. He can create for himself,
he can handle the ball, he can do it all
and he's really I don't want to use the word

(21:54):
underutilized because he's on such a great team and so
obviously he's not getting He doesn't have a bigger role,
doesn't have that much of a usage on the Thunder.
When he goes to another team and he will get
paid by another team, he will be he will elevate
his game tremendously. I'm not just saying that because he's
a Maryland guy, but he he is. He's a really
good player and I could see a huge game from

(22:15):
him where he hits three threes, they start having to
close out harder on him. He can attack the rim.
He's really athletic. He's a plus defender too, So I
think I think we could be looking at Aaron Wiggins game.

Speaker 2 (22:26):
Yeah, and I think that's the story a lot of
these Thunder guys, and every NBA team should be monitoring
the situation of which one of these guys shake loose,
because they're not going to be able to pay all
these guys. But the caseon Wallace is I mean, lou
Dord I think probably sticks around by Isaiah, Joe, Aaron
Wiggins and I by the way, I was texting with
our good friend Mark Henry Jr. Do you think you
can make a case that Aaron Wiggins is better than

(22:46):
his brother? Who's his brother, Andrew Wiggins.

Speaker 1 (22:50):
That's not his brother.

Speaker 2 (22:52):
I think it is, isn't it.

Speaker 1 (22:53):
It's I'm pretty sure it's not.

Speaker 2 (22:55):
All Right, Well, I'll still throw the hype big that'll
go out. There is there a case that could help
a team win more than Andrew Wiggins?

Speaker 1 (23:02):
I'm wait, can we get a I don't. I'm pretty
sure they're not brothers.

Speaker 2 (23:05):
I even did a Google check, so I might be
getting false news on Google's but uh, I thought that
was the case there.

Speaker 1 (23:11):
Okay, maybe I'm wrong, Maybe I'm wrong.

Speaker 2 (23:13):
There we go.

Speaker 1 (23:14):
I thought it was Wow, I'm getting very conflicted things
from Google right now. No, No, they're not. They're not brothers.

Speaker 2 (23:20):
They're not not brothers. Okay.

Speaker 1 (23:21):
I really thought it was so because I know I remember,
like obviously, when he was at Maryland and I was
covering in Maryland, I would like, look at this because
obviously Andrew Wiggins was in the league at that point,
and I remember like, no, it's not they're not They're
not brothers. Yeah, a couple of Google. Yeah, but when
you go this is the problem with AI and Google.
Right and you search it, it says Aaron Wiggins brother
is Andrew Wiggins.

Speaker 2 (23:38):
Yeah, that was the first thing that popped up for me,
so I read with this. I probably should have deb
a little bit deeper into the scroll there.

Speaker 1 (23:44):
No. Yeah, but then also a couple other sorcerers saying
they are. But I'm I'm almost ninety nine per I
could be wrong, but I'm almost nine percent sure they're
not brothers. But to answer the question, yeah, honestly, honestly, Yeah,
It's funny when you think about Andrew wiggins career, like
we'll always have that one season where he was an
all Star starter. I'm he was an all Star start
in twenty twenty two when the Warriors won the title.
He was incredible. The Warriors don't win the title without him,

(24:06):
but that's an anomaly of a season. So yeah, I
think Aaron Wiggins potential. Like right now, Andrew Wiggins is
more experienced, like ready player, but Aaron like I would
if I was if those guys both were free agents
and I was handing out a contract to one of them,
who would I pay more money to and who would
I rather want Aaron Wiggins for sure, and his career
could end up being depending on the situation he goes to. Eventually,

(24:28):
his his career could end up being better than Andrew Wiggins.

Speaker 2 (24:32):
Wow, I'm still my brain's swirling over whether or not
their brothers.

Speaker 1 (24:35):
Yeah, this is like a huge mystery. I'm almost I
don't know why I'm guessing myself. I'm almost positive or not.

Speaker 2 (24:43):
Something's gonna have to pull the twenty three in me
or whatever. Let's get some DNA testing and get the
full answer for this.

Speaker 1 (24:48):
But yeah, like like like, yeah, there's all these like
the sites asking the question. It's like, why can't we
just get an answer? I mean, yeah, yeah, maybe maybe
he can clear that up directly there.

Speaker 2 (24:58):
But yeah, the thunder are absolutely loaded with these depth
pieces there. Game seven, were buckled up for it, and
who knows, maybe we get another one in the Eastern
Conference as well.

Speaker 1 (25:06):
Yeah, so let's talk about it. Great, great segue. Let's
talk about it. Obviously, Nick, Celtics are going to a
Game six at MSG LINEUS two and a half in
favor of the Knicks. Early impressions, predictions thoughts.

Speaker 2 (25:19):
I gotta say I was very impressed by that Celtics
win in the previous game there, and obviously, Jason Tatum
is a great player, a guy that is the clear
cut best player on that Celtics team, one of the
top eight at worst players in the NBA, and frankly,
I would probably argue top five pretty pretty solidified there
specifically for this season here. But I do think there
was a little something too watching that Celtics team play,

(25:40):
watching the way the ball moved, watching the off ball cutting,
that they looked like a different basketball team. To me,
Porzinge is still a factor. I can't believe, like, I
don't think you can play them whatsoever. And frankly, I'm like, genuinely,
like have concern for his overall health from a human
being standpoint that I would love an update from that
from the Celtics on what specifically he's the only Yeah,
joezill was saying he can breathe post game, like, what

(26:01):
is going on with this guy? Because they haven't given
any sort of information outside of a viral infection. But
to just keep it about the Celtics here, I thought
that was probably the best game that they played in
this series. There was definitely a spirit behind them of
like playing for Tatum and you know, having a chip
on the shoulder. We're not going down yet doing it
in our house in Boston. There. I kind of think
there's a will where this goes seven as well. I'm

(26:21):
sure you're not surprised to hear me land on that conclusion.
But when I watched that game, I thought that was
a different version that Celtics team that we had not
seen yet in the series.

Speaker 1 (26:29):
Just to get a final hearing on the Aaron Wiggins
Andrew Wiggins conversation, they're absolutely not related. Good question. Aaron
Wiggins is from North Carolina, Andrew Wiggins is from Toronto, Canada.
Absolutely not related.

Speaker 2 (26:43):
All right, Google's got to clean that up.

Speaker 1 (26:44):
Yes, I mean Google's gotta clean a lot up. So
in terms of this series, like, yeah, of course, I
knew you were gonna say it's going seven. I'm pretty
confident the Knicks will win the series. I'm not that
confident they're gonna win tonight. Yeah, last game was essentially
a Game one for the Knicks in my mind, like

(27:05):
it was Game five obviously, but it was a game
one because this Celtics team is a new team without Tatum,
and I'm not saying they're better or worse Obviously their
talent is worse, but in a lot of ways they
look like a better team, and a lot of it
was because how much they move the ball. They move
the ball a ton and they play with such a
faster pace, Like when Tatum brings the ball up the floor,
a lot of times he's bringing up slowly and they're
taking a while and to get get into their actions,

(27:27):
and it's taking a while to even get a shot up,
and they go deep into the shot clock. This Celtics
new team with Jalen Brown really running the point for
most of the game is that they're playing so much
faster and they're playing way less isolation. This team at
twenty seven assists in Game five. That was the most
they've had this series. They most passes they've had in
this series came in their last game, Game five. Their

(27:48):
isolations direct isolations were down. They're only had nineteen in
game five. This is a team that's moving the ball.
They're not like constantly just running pick and rolls to
hunt matchups for Tatum, which is what they do, and
then Tatum a lot of times makes playoff of that
or he just runs a lot of isolation. This is
a new team this is just a new team with
with with Jalen Brown instead of Jason Tatum being the guy,

(28:10):
and of course Derek White has a bigger role. So
I'm not convinced that the Celtics team is like out
of it, like they could definitely win this series. I
just think top tobound, the Knicks are still the better team.
And that was more of a game one to me,
where it's like, all right, now you get to see
what this team looks like, their play style, all this stuff.
Now you make adjustments. Even if it takes two games

(28:31):
for the Celtics to win, I still think those adjustments
will come where the Knicks are going to close us
out in six or seven. But I'm not too confident
about tonight, to be honest.

Speaker 2 (28:39):
If there is like a criticism of the Celtics offense,
it is that they get too hunt happy at times
that they are circling that matchup. And we've seen this
around the NBA. That's becoming more popular when you have
like these heliocentric the Luka Doncic, the James Harden that
that's what they lean on. But they've gone to that
I think too much for stretches. They just played real
basketball from start to finish. Now, granted it was helpful
Derek White hit like fifth team three pointers in the

(29:00):
first three minutes. It felt like that he got a
little bit of pop from some other guys there. But
I do think like the Knicks have to adjust to
that just as much as the Celtics do. That you
have to guard this team differently because they're running different stuff.
So I'm pretty optimistic that it can kind of run
back the same thing that they did in Game one,
to kind of lean on guys to play this like
pick up the temple and tempo in the same way
they did. So I think we're buckled up for a

(29:21):
great game tonight. And I also like that Jalen Brown
still played within himself. There was some concern to me
that he would have launched like thirty five shots and
taken upon himself to be the guy to be the
Jason Tatum, and he didn't. He played within the system.
He played team basketball, and the whole team followed there.
So I think the Celtics run back that same script.
I do think we get the good version of Jalen Brown.
It just has to be for two more games, or

(29:42):
at least one more game. To extend the series, they're
gonna have to walk in the beast of Madison Square
Garden to up the energy and all that thing. But
I mean the Celtics team, I think took it a
little bit personally that they were counted out once Tatum
did go down.

Speaker 1 (29:54):
Part of that too, with Jalen Brown playing within himself,
is you're right that he's at his best when he's
doing he's not trying to do too much because obviously
his handle isn't great, so he's not He's obviously a
good creator, but he's not some a plus level creator
like a Tatum. Is part of that he has the
ability to do that is because Derek White was awesome
and he shot the hell out of the ball, especially

(30:14):
in that first half. What the Snicks need to do
in adjustment they need to make is I want to
see Og guard Derek White and just take shut him down,
take off his three balls like OG has guarded Derek
White lest this series than Brunson, Bridges and Josh Hart.
And obviously those numbers are skewed because Tatum was there
for most of the time and Og had to guard
Tatum initially. But I want Og to guard Derek White. Now,

(30:35):
for the majority of this game is when Og is
guarding Derek White. Derek White is one for eleven from
the field. All eleve of those shots are three pointers.
So he makes as that was as Og as his
primary defender, he makes things really difficult for Derek White.
And I think if you put mckal Bridges on Jalen Brown,
that length can really bother Jalen Brown and instead of
like he's obviously a strong dude, but you put the
length that mckal bridges has that could bother him. So

(30:57):
those are the matchups and adjustments I want to see,
And it really starts with if you shut down Derek White,
You're going to force Jalen Brown to play out of
himself and try to do more than he's capable of,
and that's when the Celtics offense might break down.

Speaker 2 (31:09):
So a couple other points here and from some matchup
specific stuff, I think Derek White has Michale Bridges figured out.
I think he has him timed on from a defensive perspective,
and what Bridges is going to make that switch? Yeah, no,
you're right about that. Like what Bridges is so good
at from like a scoring perspective is obviously he's super long,
he's and his release point is so high, and he
prefers to shoot it in sort of a fadeaway motion there.

(31:31):
That's so difficult to time from a defensive perspective. Well,
when you play a guy over and over through the
duration of a series here, you kind of figure out
how it's done. And that's how I feel like Derek
White has done there. Like when he's always he also
prefers to go and this his jump shot from like
a side to side motion. That's just bridges sort of
preferred route there. I was really impressed with how Derek
White was able to read that in the previous game,

(31:51):
and I think that translates over and also, as much
as I'm praising the Celtics right now, the Knicks have
to be absolutely maddened by some of that stuff from
the previous game. Carl Anthony towns Man the foul issues,
and not a single one of them was a good foul.
They were all atrocious. Complete the moving screen that just
checking a guy coming down the lane, like it's one
thing if a guy's in foul trouble, because you're putting

(32:13):
up legitimate rim resistance and protecting things. None of those
fit those bill here, so you have the absolute mad
and Jalen Brunton fond and the foul is shoes as well.
I didn't think his was as egregious as like a
being dumb on the court, but still obviously that hurt
them in a major way, and he found out super
early in that game. So those things cannot be repeated whatsoever.
And I'm not not confident Karl Anthony Towns doesn't do
the same exact thing.

Speaker 1 (32:34):
How could you be? I thought we were past the
Carol Anthonine Towns dumb fouls era of his career, and
took a long time to get there, but he was
improved last playoffs, and he had been better this playoffs,
and then you just see these fouls ninety feet from
the basket, like what are you doing? Like what are
you doing? Dude? Like use your head? And I think
he's frustrated a little bit too because of his offensive

(32:54):
rule this playoffs. And you know, he's had some good
scoring outputs, but they've completely abandoned the Jalen Brunson and
Corinthian Town's pick and pop, Like any sense to me?
By the way, I don't get it. I really don't like.
I don't understand the explanation. I haven't heard a good
one from Thibbs or anybody who would defend it of
why they've completely abandoned it, because that was one of
the most effective plays throughout the regular season. And that's

(33:15):
a way like colnthy Downs isn't shooting a lot of
threes this series. If he's at least getting them up,
forget about making them. If he's at least getting them up,
he'll be more engaged. And look, that's on him. He
has to stay engaged no matter what, no matter what
his offensive role is, but he has to be You
have to stay more engaged or he will stay more engaged.
If he's shooting a lot of threes, he'll start taking
advantage of mismatches in the post that he sometimes generates.

(33:37):
We'll w'll drive more, which you saw against the Pistons
in this series. He just hasn't. He hasn't drove the
ball as well. He's not shooting threes at a high volume.
When he's a great three point shooter, you won him too.
So it's really been weird that that they've completely abandoned that.
I will say too, like this starting five, which has
played more minutes together than any starting five in the NBA.
They're minus seven point three net rating for the entire playoff.

(34:00):
Like and lineups with Mitch, I've outscored the Celtics. They
played one hundred and ten minutes with Mitch on the floor,
Ify outscored the Celtics by twenty six points. When Mitch
is on the bench, they're outscored by sixty one minute
sixty one points in one hundred and three minutes when
he's on one hundred excuse me, one hundred and thirty
five minutes when he's on the bench. So this next team,
their identity is kind of changed in the playoffs where

(34:21):
they're not some offensive juggernaut anymore like they were during
the regular season. They were the top five offense in
the regular season. Now they've taken this more like offensive rebounding,
defensive mine approach, and they've taken on the identity of Mitch,
which is interesting because it's a guy that who comes
off the bench, but they really have like when he's
in the game, they offensive rebound the ball really well
and they play defense at a higher level, and so

(34:42):
that he needs to have a huge impact. This game.
He needs to crash the offensive board, especially when Kristaps
isn't really gonna be a factor. Luke Cornett, we should
talk about lou Cornett because he was awesome, but I
will have a huge impact on this game. Six yeah,
six for six at the freight throw line.

Speaker 2 (34:57):
Mitch Robinson, by the way, hitting the night night celebration there, Yeah, actually.

Speaker 1 (35:00):
Tweeted, actually tweet after He's like, that wasn't a night
night celebration. Oh literally, he goes on Snapjet. He's a
big snapchat.

Speaker 2 (35:07):
Yeah. He's an interesting social media follows, an interesting person period. Yeah, yeah,
for sure there, But like that is an interesting storyline.
I'll bring up the Luke Cornett story man for starters, Like, obviously,
I don't think anyone could have predicted he played that well.
Seven blocks was I think the second most in NBA
history from any player off the bench there, and like
you felt the direct impact of what he brought to

(35:27):
that game there. But Luke Cornette has been a big
part of the Celtics team all year. Man, Like, they've
been pretty strategic, particularly over the second half of the season,
where I was pretty locked up that they were going
to get the second seed of playing different line lineup
combinations that they will give Jason Tatum his night off,
will give Jaalen Brown his night off. And in all
these scenarios, Cornette has been a guy that's been called
upon with an expanded role. It kind of surprised me

(35:49):
it took this long in the series to go to
that option there because he has been legitimately good and
the thing that I will praise him the most on him,
He's just gonna play within his role. He's never gonna
do too much. He's never gonna giant take guys off
the dribble or play a reckless pass. He's just going
to set screens, catch lobs, make the basic shots, defend
like he just knows who he is as a basketball

(36:10):
player in a way that I really respect, and I
think the Celtics are going to need that kind of
impact from him again tonight.

Speaker 1 (36:15):
Yeah, And part of the Luke Cornett story has to
do with Chris Stabs, which you brought up earlier. I
don't like really want to pile on because it's obviously
something's going on mentally, physically, whatever it is. But he
obviously he's not a player that can be on a
basketball court right now, yeah, whether it's breathing, whatever it is.
So I don't think he should even play tonight. I
wonder if they'll go to him or just completely abandon him.
And when you have that Luke Cornett gave him and

(36:36):
you trust him, it's obviously complete different player. Like Luke
Cornett plays within himself, like you just said, he's not
shooting threes. But when they can have that optionality at
center too, and you can kind of give Al Horford
some more rest too, or you'll be able to defend
at a higher level in those crunch time minutes. He
can make threes if he's not as tired late in
the game because he's he's an older guy, an old
guy actually, So it's nice that you have that center

(36:58):
option where it's like if Luke wasn't, you didn't trust
Luke Cornett like this, and you didn't have Chris Steps
playing because he's a negative when he's on the court
as is at this point, then then the Celtics would
be completely screwed because you can't play outward with that
many minutes, and especially without Tatum, who's who plays central,
who did play center a lot of time for them
as their leading rebounder, you would be screwed. But Lou
Cornett is really what gives you a chance in this

(37:19):
series now, especially because what the Knicks should get back
to is crashing the offensive glass. They create extra possessions,
put pressure on the rim. And that's tough because what
the Celtics did so well last game was they got
out and ran in transition and they just played really
fast and the Knicks defensive transition or transition defense struggled. Yeah,
so it's hard to balance that when you're crashing the

(37:39):
offensive glass and getting back on in transition. But Mitch
Robinson is such a force himself on the offensive glass,
even just putting his hand on the ball that he
needs to get back to, which he kind of got
away from in Game six or Game five, crashing the
offensive glass, creating extra possessions, forcing putting pressure at the
rim on the Celtics bigs.

Speaker 2 (38:00):
Yeah, I'm with you on Porzingis, Like I think the
game plan should be he doesn't play at all tonight.
You can keep him active, you can keep on the bench,
and who knows, maybe he's miraculously feeling better. This isn't
doubting him as a basketball player. In his entirety. It's
him in the short term. The current the version of
him that exists right now just can't help this team win.
It wouldn't shock me if they dust off the the
Mayas Kita minutes and give him a chance in this

(38:21):
I don't mind that as sort of a just matchup
with Mitchell Robinson. I do think they got to get
a little creative that this series has turned on its head,
not only because you went down three to one, but
because you lost your best player. So everything should be
on the table, and that wouldn't shock me if they
go that direction there. And to the other point about that,
when we mentioned Karl Anthony Towns, they also have completely
stopped playing playing threw him out of the post, which

(38:43):
blows my mind. With all the context of the stuff
we're talking about. There isn't a single guy on the
Celtics roster they can guard him one In one of
those situations, he was cooking Al Horford when that was
the matchup and that was the best option for the
Celtics team. Jayson Tatum can't stop him in this spots.
Jalen Brown can't. Luke Cornett. I don't believe Ken even
though he did look like the kembe Matombo for a
stretch in that previous game there, So I don't understand

(39:05):
why the Knicks don't lean on that more either.

Speaker 1 (39:08):
Yeah, I'm with you on that, but at the same time,
it's like we're putting a lot of blame on Karnthon Towns.
The next others have to step up too, Like we
know what Brunson is gonna be, and Bunston didn't play
a good game by any stretching it five thousand a
third quarter, Whi's just like a ridiculous whistle. I mean
that was that was a series extender whistle where it's
like we want this series to keep going, like he
can't put up all of them. I would say three

(39:30):
were legitimate, but it's again same thing with Shay and
that Shae. That fourth foul on Shae then the second
quarter was done by him, but like we don't, like
we're not here to see the whistle, Like, let the
best players have a little more leeway when they're getting
in foul. Troumple, five thousand a quarter is just absurd.
I don't even care if you're a hack, like you
should not not be calling five thoulsd on one guy,

(39:50):
especially the best player one team, in one quarter in
nine minutes, not even a full quarter in nine minutes,
you got called five thousand. That's absurd. And and that's
on the referees more than his bruntson even if a
couple of those fouls were pretty dumb, I will say
it's on the knicks others to me because mckail bridges
like he's had some great moments late in the fourth
quarters at the end of games, defensively, hit some big shots.

(40:12):
He's not playing well. He's shooting thirty nine percent from
the field. He's shooting twenty five percent from three, averaging
thirteen points. He hasn't shot a single free throw in
this series. Wow, you believe that that is a single
free throw in an entire series through five games. The
guy who is at his best when he's getting downhill
and of course he's usually looking for that MIDI pull up,
and he's been more of a spot up player with

(40:33):
Brunson on the floor. But still like you have to
attack the rim, you have to get to the free
throw line. Og had some great games early in this
series when they were up to oh he struggled the
last few games. He's not making shots like the Knicks.
Others just have to hit shots and have to hit
hit threes. I think Josh Hard at four or five
threes last game, and that was wasted because you're not
going to see that again. It's really gonna come down

(40:54):
to we know what Brunston is gonna be, and we
know what he's gonna do in the fourth quartern tight game,
it's what was og gonna do off? What is mckillbridge's
gonna do offensive?

Speaker 2 (41:02):
Yeah, I don't understand how Josh Hart does this every
single playoffs man that he just finds a way and
obviously he's wide open like they're giving him and he's
making them pay here and he will have Madison Square
Garden behind him tonight. But it blows my mind how
he manages to just turn himself at a good shooter
come playoff time.

Speaker 1 (41:16):
Well, he's there's eighty two game players and the sixteen
game players, and he's definitely an eighty two game player
because he he led the led the league in minutes
this year, got the Minutes Award. But he's also a
sixteen game player. Like when you're drafting sixteen game role players,
who do you want in your squad, even though the
teams leave him open a lot of times because he
has a liabilities a shooter, he'll have games where he
knocks him down and he just he does every every

(41:37):
little thing right. So he's a guy you want in
a team for sixteen games.

Speaker 2 (41:41):
So am I rating between the lines here, Sam Astri
that you think this series is going seven as well?

Speaker 1 (41:46):
Like, no, no, I'm gonna say, I like the Knicks
are gonna win the night, but I'm saying it wouldn't
shock me if it does.

Speaker 2 (41:53):
Like, how much do you think the level of concern
in that building, in that locker room in New York
City happens if they lose tonight?

Speaker 1 (42:02):
Oh? Huge and huge concern all right? Now, all of
the pressure is on the Knicks, especially at home tonight,
But even if they lose, heading into a Game seven
the Celtics, this is a team that the Knicks are
massive favorites. Once Tatum went down, they had a to
o lead with Tatum, you have a three to one lead.
When Tatum goes down. We're talking about a top five
player in the league, a guy who's made four straight
first team All nbas And this is your prime opportunity

(42:24):
to get a trip to the conference finals. And when
you look at who's in the conference finals, which they
might have already done prematurely, you're looking at a team
that is more than beatable in the Pacers and a
team that knocked you out in seven games last year
in the second round. That's a team you want to
match up and you're tasting a trip to the NBA Finals,
and it's just human nature to do that. So all
of the pressure is on the next tonight and in

(42:46):
this series, so that because of that, they're gonna play
a little tighter. They're gonna be at home, that crowd
is gonna be great, but it's gonna be a nervous
crowd too to a degree. And the Celtics are playing
like they have nothing to lose because they don't.

Speaker 2 (42:56):
They don't this point.

Speaker 1 (42:57):
So yeah, there's gonna be a lot of un Certainly
if they're heading back to seven in Boston. I'm confident
that you're gonna win this series, and I'm predicting them
to win tonight. From not too confident.

Speaker 2 (43:08):
I think we go seven here, and I feel fore
you think the Celtics are winning in seven, right? I mean,
I don't know how you could talk yourself to the
next winning game seven. If they go and lose these
back to back games without Jason Tatum here.

Speaker 1 (43:19):
And then they want they won two on the road
to start this series. Yeah, I mean, and again I
think I think home court advantage means nothing so fair.

Speaker 2 (43:26):
The other part that I think we should keep in
mind here is I agree the Celtics have nothing to lose,
they do have plenty to gain. And what I mean
by that is there's a lot of conversations going on
behind the scenes in Boston right now about the big,
big picture of this franchise that yes, they just won
a championship last year, but there are a lot of
money decisions that need to be made this offseason. I
think this team genuinely likes playing with each other, and

(43:48):
if you're gonna have, like at least the case to
keep the core together, you got to find a way
to keep winning, man. And I think beating this next
team without Tatum would go a long way in the
confidence from the new owner and the organization as a
whole to why there is reason to doing it tum.
Tatum getting injured sort of made the decision for the franchise,
like there has to be big changes, and frankly, those

(44:08):
conversations were already going down before the jury did occur.
I think it was likely to happen either way. But
you're trying to make this case if you're Derek White
and Drew Howaday and trying to be I want to
be in Boston forever, show exactly why in this game
and in the remainder of this area. I think the.

Speaker 1 (44:22):
Celtics demise has been greatly, greatly exaggerated since Tatum's in Juam.
And you think this is like World War Three in
the NBA going on right now, based off what they're
saying and what everyone's saying. And I get the salary
cap situation, and they're gonna like almost five hundred million,
it's an absurd payroll. They're in the tax like there's
going to be changes next year is probably a wash.

(44:42):
I think the Celtics could be competitive, like a six
seed to five seed, maybe with with a Jayleen Brown
Derek White led team Pitton Petrick. Yeah, exactly, if they
don't shop them, they're not gonna They're not gonna be
a bad team stretch. They're certainly not gonna win win
the finals. About Tatum next year and you know, see
come back for the playoffs. Will probably take the Derek
the KD approach where it's all right, take a full

(45:04):
year off, you don't want to come back in like
April and reinjure something. Take the full year off. But
the demise being greatly exaggerated because on the other side
of next year, they're gonna have Jason Tatum still who
I think, like modern medicine, achilles injuries aren't what they
used to be. You can come back for them. When
people compare him to Kobe, Kobe injured his achilles in
the sixteen season, he was already very much on the

(45:25):
decline teams in his prime. Kevin Drane could even say
was on the decline when he tore his achilles, and
he came back ninety five to one hundred percent of
what he was. Like achilles injuries are. You can come
back from Achilles' injuries more than used to be able to.
So I don't want to hear those comparisons from fifteen
twenty years ago.

Speaker 2 (45:43):
And by the way, if there's a single guy that
I'm betting on to like take his rehab completely serious,
to grind it out at his age. It's probably Jason
Tatum and yeah, I apologize for the stray, but this
isn't Joelle Andbid.

Speaker 1 (45:53):
We're talking yes, yeah, I mean you could. You can
call it Tatum, Corny, no aura, no personality, all that
might be. But he's as a hard worker that exists
in the NBA. So there's no doubt, no doubt that
he'll come back, will come back better, better than what
he maybe was, because he's still he's still in his prime.
So it's that factor. It's the factor that they're not

(46:14):
trading Jalen Brown. Like, let's think about this front office.
This front office was incredibly patient working with Jason Tatum
and Jalen Brown and everyone one of those odds to
split up after all of their exits throughout the postseason,
and this front office, Brad Danny Ainge and then Brad
Stevens were not going to split them up. They were
staying patient with that duo and it paid off when
they won a championship last year when they surrounded them

(46:34):
with the right parts. They're staying patient with this. Those
two guys are Celtics. I don't want to say for life,
but for as long as you could, you could go
in an NBA career. Those two guys are staying Celtics.
Derek White is gonna be untouchable. This team is gonna
be fine. Yes, there they might have to ship Drew
Holiday out, and it's gonna be a hard contract because
he's he's old and he's three years left on that deal.
It's like over one hundred million, So it's gonna be

(46:54):
a hard contract to ship out. Gone gone, Yeah, Porzingis
is gone while Horford's going. But this is a great
front office. They are going to retool and when you
have the core still around of Tatum, of Jalen Brown
and of Derek White, they'll be back in two years
like this demise, like this is the most catastrophic injury
in NBA history. Yeah, maybe for the individual player, based

(47:15):
on where he is in his career. The Celtics will
be back and will be fun. Yes, it's a wash
next year for their season, but this core isn't going anywhere,
and they'll build around the margins because they have a
great front office.

Speaker 2 (47:25):
Yeah. I don't think it's over as far as this
era or anything, but I do think that the next
time we're talking about the Celtics, legitimate title contenders, they
look quite different than they do now that. I do
think there's Al Horford, whether he retires or moves to
another location, will not be back in Boston next year.
I don't see a well where Porzingis is back. I
do think it's more likely than not that Drew Howiday
is traded. But these are all difficult things to maneuver
because when factoring in the trades here, you got to

(47:48):
take in money to send money out in the NBA
the way things work here, so it's not like you
can just straight salary dump. So there's gonna be some
tough decisions there. But I did want to kind of
throw that on the table, like if this team wants
to make the case why they shouldn't be reach, they
do want to make the case of maybe Jason Tatum
can just return next year. I mean, we can saw
him get the surgery at a quicker rate than I've
ever seen in history of any player really him doing

(48:08):
that there. So if you want to make this campaign
and make this case, the floor is there for you
to go and make that happen there. So I thought
I would throw that out there too.

Speaker 1 (48:16):
Yeah, it was good fortunate he was in New York
because he was probably gonna get that surgery in New
York with that surgeon regardless, he just happened to be
in New York anyway. So yeah, I'm with you, though,
there's no reason to blow this up. And the Celtics
front office is too smart. They're not trading Jalen Brown
this offseason. It's not happening. And he proved what he
can do in the style of play that they can
they can they can implement with him running the point

(48:36):
and him being the focal point of the offense when
he doesn't try to do too much. They prove that
last game. So regardless of what happens the rest of
this series, I think I think the Celtics are not
blowing it up, and Jalen Brown and Jason Tatum and
Derek White and that core will be back. So you
have Celtics win tonight, and you have Celtics winning in seven.
I have Nix winning tonight. But I mean when the

(48:56):
series is over, the next are going to win tonight
and it's gonna be four to two series, and you're
still gonna say Celtics and seven, and then you're gonna
say Pracers in four next.

Speaker 2 (49:04):
Series Celtic's nine and two without Jason Tatum this year,
I'll just throw that out there.

Speaker 1 (49:08):
No, it's been impressive, but the Knicks are the better
team to me. They have the best player on the floor,
regardless of what Charles Barkley says, and I think the
Knicks wrap it up at home tonight. All right, moving on,
let's talk about some teams that already advanced the conference
finals in some of those series which were marred by injuries,
which is really unfortunate to say, like how injuries play
a role in these playoffs. The season's too long. It's

(49:29):
a pointless conversation. I know a lot of people have it,
but it's a pointless conversation because it's never changing, right,
how much money you make off of an eighty two
game season. Owners will never relinquish that type of revenue
and go to seventy games. So yeah, everyone acknowledges. I'm
sure the NBA acknowledges that is the solution. That's a
better thing to do from business perspective. It's never happening.
So it's really conversation and there's no point in even

(49:50):
having it. But it sucks that Steph Curry goes down
that series becomes a wash. Of course, the Wolves win
four straight and wrap that up, and then the Pacers,
who deserve a lot of praise, but they also are
a team that that played a decimated Calves team like
Donovan Mitchell at the end of that series was hurt. Uh.
Darius Garland was hurt the entire series and missed the
first two games Game two, which the Calves should have won.

(50:11):
There was no excuse for them to blow that, but
they were still down three starters, so the Pacers did
snatch it from them. But at the same time, the
Calves were decimated. So I want to talk about where
those two teams go, the Calves and Warriors. Do you
want to heap any praise on the on the Wolves
or Pacers?

Speaker 2 (50:25):
I think the Pacers deserves more praise than what you
was gonna go the Wolves, So good thing you want
to pa, I mean the team. I've made my position,
Claire on that you gotta beat whoever is in front
of you, and I think that should how sports work.
There like, you don't control those circumstances there, let.

Speaker 1 (50:39):
Me say, let me let me just say something. Okay,
what did you text me when when Jason Tatum went down.

Speaker 2 (50:47):
That about my dad.

Speaker 1 (50:48):
Now have my spin zone for this, exactly exactly, So
now you're your spin zone. And that's what I was
waiting for.

Speaker 2 (50:53):
This.

Speaker 1 (50:53):
I was waiting for this. Guy knew his coming. But
now your spin zone. The Jayson Tatum's down. The next
beat a decimated Celtics team without their best player. But
then you want to give the Pacers all the credit
in the world that you have to beat who's in
front of you.

Speaker 2 (51:03):
Well, I mean at the time of Jason Damam's entry,
it was a two one series. You know, you never
know what happened in the game. With three minutes, anything
could have happened at that point. So but to bring
it back to the Pacers here, this team just keeps
doing it. Man. They're physical, they know exactly who they are.
And I think what we've got a little bit lost
in in the NBA conversation so superstar driven and so
who's the best player? And I'm certainly guilty of this myself.

(51:25):
Even if Tyrese Albert wins an NBA championship, I still
don't think I'm throwing him in the conversation of like
one of the ten best players in the league, because
I don't think he is, but this team sort of
doesn't need him to be that. They generate looks from
a pure offense and a pure basketball perspective in a
way that has become a bit of a lost arc
in the NBA or a lost art in the NBA. There.
They defend their physical they get out in transition. They're

(51:46):
a tough team to go up against on an every
night basis, And frankly, I think even if that calvs.
Team was at full strength, I still think the Pacers
were moving on in that series there. So they've gotten
a lot of doubt. They haven't gotten enough love. I
do want to give a little bit to the Pacers
for take care of business to make things happen.

Speaker 1 (52:01):
Yeah, I want to. I want to talk about that
point about the depth, because a lot of times you see,
like there's this notion that rotations are shortened in the
playoffs and like the only top seven is all that matters.
But that's not really been true anymore, Like like when
you said maybe maybe maybe being for the Nuggets and
the top seven is all the matters, But when you
look at the Thunder, if they win this series in

(52:22):
seven games, it's because of their depth. We look at
the Pacers because of their depth. It's because of their
they have lineups they can go two through ten. So
if it wasn't isn't one guy's night, it's another guy's night.
And that's what makes the Pacers as specials because they
have so much depth and so many different guys like
Andrew Nemhart and Aaron Nate Smith. Like those guys. Are
you talk about the nixt I know you joke the
Knicks are like a role player super team. The Pacers
really are a role player super team. Like those two

(52:44):
guys being drafting just role players. Guys will never ever
make All Star games, never ever a chance on the height.
It's subjective, but guys who you know never have a
chance of making All Star teams. Aaron Nasmith and Andrew
Nemhart are two guys, and even Benedict Matthurn two are
three guys that you want at the top at the
top of the that role player draft. So they're so
deep and of so many different options, and that's what's

(53:04):
been so impressive.

Speaker 2 (53:06):
Yeah, I love all those guys. By the way, Nay Smith,
what a sick career arc like him coming out. I'm
pretty sure he was a Vanderbilt guy coming out of college.
He just was a straight up three point shooter that
he shot like I want to say, close to fifty
percent from three, absolutely launched it. And he's basically turned
himself into this like high level defender, gruntwork, physical guy.
And it's pretty cool to kind of see that type
of arc as the thunder is booming around me in

(53:28):
this household here, but like very cool to see him
reinvent himself and be really effective in that role there.
And yeah, all these guys know exactly who they are
as basketball players, play within their box and like it's
translating to team success there. So I do think the
Pacers deserve their flowers. And I know you want to
bring up the Timberwolves, and in agreement with you that
they haven't got quite as much love as well. So

(53:48):
I'll let you take the floor and lead with this one.

Speaker 1 (53:50):
Yeah, I mean I get it, Like they played a
Warriors team without Steph Curry. What are you going to do?
And people are blaming Jimmy Butler way too much. People
just pot on him. Jimmy Butler wasn't traded there to
be the best player. He wasn't traded there to win
games without Steph Curry's traded there to give relief for
Steph Curry when he's on the floor with him, and
he's trade there when Steph curis to sit on the bench,
he can provide a spark in terms of the scoring

(54:10):
and a secondary creator. That's what he was traded there for,
not to be the best player on a team, because
he's not capable of doing that and carrying a team anymore,
especially a team as offensively challenged has as the Warriors,
where some some other guys didn't step up, so.

Speaker 2 (54:23):
More more offensively challenged than the Miami team, by the way,
way more.

Speaker 1 (54:27):
Right, like that that team in Max trus and Caleb
more In and Gabe Vincent was awesome for that stretch.
Like those guys had the right personnel around Jimmy and
their shooters. So so Jimmy's getting way too much criticism
right now. It's just a Warriors teem the no chance
like they would have lost to the Rockets, that would
have lost to any playoff team probably including in the East,
and maybe even the Magic too without Steph Curry because
he's everything, and we don't we don't need to talk

(54:48):
about his gravity and everything, like we know what Steph
Curry is, so I get why the Wolves aren't getting
as much credit. I want to talk about jewels like
Aunt's awesome, and I want to talk about Julius Randall,
who just averaged twenty five points per game in a seat,
and you can talk about the Warriors being decimated. That's
still a great defense. That Warriors defense is great, and
the Wolves half court offense struggled against They struggled in

(55:09):
the first series against the Lakers, even though they won
that in five, and they struggled against the Warriors because
the Warriors are a great defense. Julius Randall was the
one who was creating in the half court, especially when
they're throwing everything, and he has become such a great playmaker,
passing out of four on threes and creating for his guys.
He averaged seven point four assist in the series, six
point six rebounds. He had a phenomenal series. And the

(55:31):
Julius Randall playoff criticism was completely overblown and really taken
out of context because his first series, first playoff series
ever with the Knicks, was he was the best player
on the floor. A next team that completely overachieved no
Knicks team because of him, one hundred percent. He was
All NBA that year. But when Julius Randall's the best
player on the floor, you're really like your ceiling is

(55:53):
only so high. So that wasn't his fault. That's not
what he's meant to be. And then the next knixt
playoff run that he played in, he was really hurt,
like really he was visibly hurt, and he was playing
through something that entire run. So I get it that
the people were piling on him as oh, he's an
underperformer in the playoffs. It lacks complete context. And he's
been awesome, awesome this playoffs, So he deserves all the

(56:13):
credit in the world. And I love that the narratives
finally changed on him because I've been critical of him.
I think Julius Randall is a great player. He's a
great basketball player. I've always questioned kind of his fit
in the modern NBA because he's a ball stopper. He's
an isolation heavy guy who's a physical likes to play
through the mid post, back to the basket his game,
and he's he can make threes, but he's not some

(56:35):
knockdown three point shooter, and so that creates space and concerns,
and you saw that in the really the first half
of the season for the Wolves. But he's found a
way to fit in and adjust to his play style
this season, really over the last half a season, at
last half of the season, and the Wolves have been
great because of it. So I've been really impressed with
Julius random how he's fit in, and he deserves all
the priests.

Speaker 2 (56:55):
Yeah, I've always had a great deal of respect for
Julius Frand I've liked him dating back to his days
in Kentucky, and he's had a really bizarre sort of career,
the way that he's bounced around from the Lakers, the Pelicans,
I think he spent a year down in New Orleans
and then New York. I don't think he gets enough
credit for really like starting this era of winning basketball
for the Mix and like it always left a bit
of a sour taste in my mouth, the way that
like the Karl Anthony Towns trade went down as a

(57:17):
way that I felt like he kind of went underappreciated
in that. And I think it's really cool that he's
now having his moment and when speaking about like the
fit on this Timberwolves team. You're absolutely right to question,
like the fit in the modern NBA, that he is
a throwback style of player. There's no doubt about that.
Post oriented a really good playmaker out of that. But
what I think is so important to what he brings
his Timberwolves team. There's gonna be doubles and triples thrown

(57:38):
to Anthony Edwards constantly. That's who he's elevated to as
a player and the respect that he commands there. So
to counter that, you have to have a guy who
can generate his own offense, which Julius Randall can do.
When looking at Karl Anthony Towns, while he's a more
talented offensive player, he isn't really as a creator, a
guy that he can get to his own shots. He's
a better spot up shooter, he's a better post player,

(57:59):
but just a guy that when it's late in the
shot clock can go get to his spot and get
a bucket. Julius Randall's far better than him, and we're
seeing how important that is. Those situations have come up
time and time again in this series as teams blitz
blitz and to get the ball out of his hands
for the force, other guys to make them. So it's
been pretty cool. I think even the most optimistic or
biggest Julius Randall believers couldn't have a guess like this

(58:20):
level of impact. He tripled, He's tripled his per from
past playoff runts. I'm just like, how good that he's been.
So I'm happy that he's having his moment. I do
think this is kind of here to stay, and we
may be looking at one of like the biggest win
win trades that ever heard in NBA history.

Speaker 1 (58:36):
That's what I was about to say, is that this
this is a complete win win both guys, and imagine
they meet in the finals and it's just like like
this is this is an absolute win win for both sides,
and I think the Wolves have a decent chance of
making the finals. If it's If it's the Nuggets, We've
seen the Wolves size really bother Yokic and the Nuggets
in the past, really the last few seasons, honestly, since

(58:57):
they got Rudy Gobert and created that team to defeat
at you in the Nuggets and they had success over
it against them last year in the second round. If
it's the Thunder, I feel like the Thund If the
Thunder win Game seven, the Thunder are winning the championship.
There's no doubt in my mind of that. That would
mean that they they kind of all all those demons,
those playoff demons, they would have exercised them all and
they would have gotten over the NBA champion. And it

(59:18):
feels like that Thunder team will win the championship if
they can escape that think that Game seven. And they
also have the size to match the Wolves' size, and
of course the perimeter defenders and all that. So I
could see Julius honestly struggling in that series if it's
the Thunder, but the Wolves have a decent chance of
going the championship. If it's the Nuggets, i'd be I
don't even know who'd be favored in that series necessarily
maybe the Nuggets slightly, but that would be an awesome,

(59:40):
awesome series.

Speaker 2 (59:42):
Yeah, no, one hundred percent there and it will be
fun of we'll see what happens here. We'll wait till
the Game seven because I actruly think that is like
a toss up for how things play out. And uh,
I can talk myself either way. The other team that
I did want to make sure we got to is
the Cleveland Cavaliers.

Speaker 1 (59:55):
Here I was gonna say, well, let me present this
as a question to you. So the Wolves, Wolves and
Calves are both done, like obviously, if seasons are over,
which team and there's different questions about where they go
from he or we can talk about that. Which team
would you be more confident in competing for a title
next season?

Speaker 2 (01:00:13):
I don't think. I think the Cavaliers window like you,
it's time for them to get creative this offseason.

Speaker 1 (01:00:19):
Oh I really you think the Cavs should should blow
it up? I yes, to an extent, I completely disagree.
I want to hear your your case.

Speaker 2 (01:00:27):
So here's my thing. I don't think Donovan Mitchell is
remotely the problem. I do believe in him. I don't
think Evan Mobley is remotely the problem. That he elevated
his game in a way that I think was necessary
and changed the way that I look at him this year.
That's about where my list stops. That Darius Garland a
very good basketball player, but I don't know if he
can co exist in a backcourt with Donovan Mitchell. Jared Allen,
I'm even lower on than I thought could be the case.

(01:00:48):
Another good player, but I think when looking at how
this all works, is time for them to take a
superstar swing. Let's get in the mix. Let's give Donovan
Mitchell like a chance to have a true running mate here.
And I do think Mobley can be sort of that
third guy as a defensive first piece. But I don't
think they could go as Donovan Mitchell directly said in
his press conference, they can go eighty too and zero
in the regular season next year and nobody's still gonna

(01:01:09):
look at them seriously. I think that this they fell
a little bit into that very good regular season team
that doesn't have a chance in a playoff sort of
box there, and I think you gotta look yourself in
the mirror, figure out how to fix that and find
the guy that can change that sort of perception.

Speaker 1 (01:01:26):
I think patience is rewarded in the NBA, and I
think they should stay patient. And part of the reason
why is because there is a really nice runway in
the East to make a championship over the next couple
of years. You can assume Boston's out of it next year.
You can assume Giannis is probably heading out West next season.
You have the Knicks, you have the Sixers, and you

(01:01:48):
have the Calves. You want to throw the Pacers in.
I will never be that worried about the Pacers, but
I don't care. I don't care how far they go
this year. The Sixers, of course, the health thing. You
can never trust the Sixers. You really have the knicks
in the competing for a title next season. You're disrespect
of the Pacers heavy by the way. I know, I am,
I am very aware, but I just I there's something

(01:02:08):
about it. It's just I can't I can't see that team,
maybe they'll make the finals this year, that they're not
winning a championship. The Calves are the better team, no
doubt in my mind. The problem with the Calves is
they have this small backcourt, and I think the Sixers
about to experience that too, where small backcourts are tough
when when teams are just targeting those guys constantly in
in the playoffs like that. Donovd Mitchell and Darius Garland

(01:02:30):
are small, small backcourt, and the Sixers could have that
problem with With Maxi and McCain two, they have obviously
great rim protection. With Evan Mobile, you can really switch
on the perimeter and guard one through five. And of
course Jared Allen's one of the best rim protectors in
the league. DeAndre Hunter is a pretty good perimeter defender.
Max Strus is not ty, Jerome is not. Perimeter defense

(01:02:51):
is what they have to address badly, and and they
need perimeter defenders to mask Darius Garland and and Donovan
Mitchell's liabilities defensively. Part of the problem this series was
that Dearris Garland was also not good offensively when he played.
I mean, he missed the first two games. But if
you're good enough offensively, it's fine. If you're a negative defensively,
he wasn't even good offensively because of his injury, and

(01:03:12):
he really struggled throughout the entire series on both ends.
So I think if they get perimeter oriented defenders and
better wing defenders who can also guard point guards, then
they'll be fine. And they still can have that core
and that rim protecting duo of Evan Mobley and Jared Allen.
What we saw most of the season, which what they
had success with, was they were pairing those guys like

(01:03:34):
it was usually Darius Garland Jared Allen playing together, and
then Evan Mobley and Donovan Mitchell playing together. And when
those two guys with each due was together, they were
awesome in the playoffs. That wasn't really the case because
number when you're playing your starters more minutes regardless. But
also Darius Garland was hurt, so you didn't have that
ability to play that duo because he wasn't He didn't
play the first two games, and then it wasn't Dearris

(01:03:56):
Garland that we know in the rest of the series.
So I still think patient is the way. You had
a great regular season. You were one of the best
three point shooting teams in the league. You just didn't
make threes this playoffs, and it certainly didn't make threes
this postseason. Donovan Mitchell you can trust in the postseason.
I know people are piling on him because he hasn't
made a conference finals, but he's had some epic playoff

(01:04:17):
series where it hasn't been his fault. It's been his
team's fault constantly. So I'm a huge don Mitchell fan. Still,
I think you can win with that back court and
that front court. You just have to get enough permitive
defenders and enough three points shooting around them. Because again,
this was the best offense in the league. So let's
not discount what they did in the regular season. This
was the best offense in the league during the regular season.
So I think that the answer is patience. Yes, you

(01:04:39):
have to build around the margins for sure, but I
wouldn't blow up that court.

Speaker 2 (01:04:42):
For Jared Allen in the final two games of this
series here, the final two games combined for eleven points
and six rebounds. Here, that's just not bad.

Speaker 1 (01:04:52):
He was bad.

Speaker 2 (01:04:53):
I thought he was straight up outplayed by like Pascal
Siakam and Miles Turner, and Miles Turner, who I think
is a little bit under appreciating the conversation not be
out playing you if you're Jared Allen, like that just
should not happen here. I agree with a lot of
your points about shifting towards like a higher level perimeter,
like perimeter defender and that kind of thing. I think
the route to doing that is by moving on from
Jared Allen and like swapping it that way. Like he's
a good player, I don't think he's a difference maker

(01:05:15):
from a playoff perspective. I think he's sort of closer
to a guy than like the real all star type
center that like they kind of need that. Evan Mobley,
I think is capable of growing into and by the way,
the biggest loser of this entire postseason might be tied
to Rome Man like legitimately probably cost himself like twenty
five million dollars just from that playoff front.

Speaker 1 (01:05:32):
Yeah, well, if a six man in the year for
a reason, that man has to stay as a six
man limited in a limited role because he's awesome in
a limited role, but or contender for six Man of
the Year whatever, he's awesome in a limited role when
when he starts having to do too much, which he
did with Darius Garland's injury this series, he's not the guy.
The problem with treating Jared Allen for primier defenders is
Evan Mobley is best at the four. We saw that

(01:05:53):
offensively when he's playing the four, when he's wearing that
pick and roll in the short role, he became an
awesome short role playmaker. His drives were way up and
he was way more efficient and points per possession went
way up this season on his drives and he's driving
the ball more and Kenny Atkinson and Donald Mitchell put
him in good spots. Evan Mobley needs to play the four,
like I think that's best so who are you gonna
prepare him with at the five?

Speaker 2 (01:06:13):
I think I think he can play the five. I
think you can run that exact same system where you're
playing more spacing like I think you you embrace a
more entire like perimeter centric offense where you have him
as the five, where he's screening to an open lane
or can still kick the shooters.

Speaker 1 (01:06:27):
Like yeah, I just feel like you're limiting him. You're
limiting him as a passer and playmakers where he really
made a jump this year if he's the five. And look,
I think he defensively he can play the five because
he can switch. You could switch if he's playing the five,
and he's a good rim protector even though he's kind
of a skinnier dude. I just I just think offensively
he's best at the four, like kind of like a

(01:06:47):
apperating as a hub, kind of like Anthony Davis, Like
he can play the five short, but he's best when
he's playing the four. So so that I just I,
I look, they can win without Jared Allen. I don't
think Jared Allen's a super important piece, But for me,
I wouldn't mind taking a patient approach.

Speaker 2 (01:07:03):
Yeah, I get it. I think it's time to take
a swing that I think we've now like, I'm a
big Donovan Mitchell. I do believe Donna Mitchell can be
the best player on a championship team. I think that
is the guy you should be locked in on, and
as long as he's willing to continue bat on in Cleveland,
you continue making that happen. I do feel bad from
the dude who I think has like some of the
superstar aura and wants to be a little bit of
like the in the limelight type guy. The two NBA

(01:07:26):
cities he's played and has been in Utah and in
Cleveland there so kind of.

Speaker 1 (01:07:30):
He wanted to be traded to New York. He admitted that, yea,
where he's problem too.

Speaker 2 (01:07:33):
Yeah, So I guess my other point in this would
be make sure that you're showing to him that you're
taking every steps possible to maximize your chances of winning.
I don't know if he's just going to be as
bought in on this patient approach as you're kind of selling,
and to me, like it's more important to preserve that
type of desire to be there, if that means taking
a swing, I think all all conclusions should follow that.

Speaker 1 (01:07:53):
Yeah, but also this was kind of like the first
I know, obviously they've been there for a while, not
a while, but a few years now. This was the
first year to me of this core coming together. Number
one because Kenny Atkins' system where they became the best
offense in the league. A Number two because all those
guys were locked in. If you remember after last season,
there was conversations of Darius Girl and Donovan Mitchell waning
to break up, and those guys are not wanting to
play each other. He's locked into a long term deal.

(01:08:14):
Don Mitchell's locked into a long term deal. Evan Mobley's
locked into a long term deal. That's their core. So yeah,
I would say it's it's not like a huge swing
to trade or risk to trade Jared Allen. Of course
depends what the return is. But in terms of those
three in this backcourt, I wouldn't mess with that. I think,
like really, when I say patience, I would mess I

(01:08:34):
would keep those two guys in place. But at the
same time, if they don't make a move from Jared
Allen and they stay with that core four, I also
won't have a problem.

Speaker 2 (01:08:41):
I just think you can flip Jared Allen and bring
in like a guy and the drop offs not like
you still need another big legit center to go to
that optionality. But if it's like Brook Lopez, like you
can maybe make a case.

Speaker 1 (01:08:52):
O old though he's so old, he looked he looked old.

Speaker 2 (01:08:54):
This year, I've seen his name pop up and buzz
farm more than I think should probably be the case.
I do think his days are behind them. But even
like you get my point of just like a run
of the mill type guy that can fill in as
a center, I don't think Jared Awen is that head
and shoulders above a guy that you can bring in
at that type of position.

Speaker 1 (01:09:10):
He's also on a pretty manageable contract too. I mean
still three years left after this season on his deal
of around thirty million a year, So Jared Awen's on
a pretty manageable contract. It's a lot though for Jared
down it is real like it's only like in twenty
eight twenty nine, they'll only be fifteen percent of the
cat so like it's not like, yes, theoretically it is,

(01:09:30):
but I think that's a managable contract to trade. To
your point, if they're going to treat sure in terms
of getting that salary back. All right, So let's let's
talk about the Warriors though, because I don't think there's
much they can do. But the real question is, Jonathan Kaminga,
do you have any confidence in the Warriors competing for
a title next season or do you after because it's
really a two year window where they have Steph Curry
and Jimmy Butler locked up for the next two years.

Speaker 2 (01:09:50):
Yeah, I don't really have confidence that they can, but
that doesn't mean they shouldn't try. Here. I think the
clear pathway is like a Jonathan cominga sign and trade.
I think that's really the only move that they have
in their pocket that you can get something out of here.
It's been crystal clear for quite some time. If the
Cominga and Golden State relationship is not working the stylistically,
they're not a match whatsoever. And sometimes that happens that
guys talented basketball players don't fit on other on teams

(01:10:13):
because it is just not a match for them. And
I think that is kind of the case here, and
there should be teams in the right situation that should
be interested in Jonathan Coming.

Speaker 1 (01:10:21):
It's really it's really weird, like were these quotes that
we're seeing after the season of him of Steve Kurtz, like,
you guys are moving on from each other. You didn't
play him in the Rocket series. You weren't playing him,
points out the year. We know the owner loves him,
which is the only reason that he might stick around.
Joe Lacup was the one who pushed for him in
the draft and has pushed for him to play this
whole time, which is the only reason he might stick around.
But if your coach doesn't trust you, why would you

(01:10:43):
want to stay? Why would they want you? It's kind
of weird all these comments, like we know this is
an inevitable breakup company.

Speaker 2 (01:10:49):
Is it the Steve Kerr. We're gonna make sure there's
not a shot he doesn't like next year quote that's
bugging you?

Speaker 1 (01:10:53):
Yeah? Yeah, Was that like a Legion Hoops tweet?

Speaker 2 (01:10:57):
I believe so. I actually think.

Speaker 1 (01:10:59):
Because I've read that story in The Athletic. I'm pretty
sure he's Legion Hoops got that wrong, and he said
that about Pozimski he was like encouraging, But yeah, I'm
pretty sure he was encouraging Brandon Bozimski to shoot the
ball and talking about how he didn't have that much
confidence throughout the series, and I'm pretty sure Legion Hoops
is completely attributed that wrong.

Speaker 2 (01:11:17):
All right, well we'll wipe that one from the slate then.
But yeah, that is how I understood it.

Speaker 1 (01:11:22):
Supposed to show you what Legion Hoops is in it
as an again.

Speaker 2 (01:11:25):
But I guess to bring it about Kamene here, like,
I mean, it's got to be a sign and trade situation.
They don't really have any other options they can do.
I think you know that you have Steph Curry and
Jimmy Butler, and they already paid Jimmy, We've made that.
Claire Draymond's still gonna be kicking around. I don't think
we're going to get a more productive version of him,
and the distractions will only increase from here. But that's

(01:11:45):
sort of your core that you're bond in, knew. I
don't know how many legitimate NBA players that they have
outside of this. Buddy Heeld is who he is, and
I think is a fine guy that you want to
run it back with him, like I see the case
for Potchefsky. I like, but I think there's definitely a
ceiling on who he is. You got to find a
way to get another dude. As far as like teams,
I do think that Kaminga will be an attractive piece.
Detroit is a team that popped in mind to me

(01:12:05):
is like could be take worth taking a swing with him,
although they're pretty starved for shooting in general also, but
that's probably the move from Golden State. That's like the
one pathway I see to them kind of retooling and
having a chance at contending next year.

Speaker 1 (01:12:17):
Yeah, I think you have to see number one elape
from Brandon Bazemski. You only shot the ball thirty percent
from three to thirty three percent from the field in
this series, and he had some moments during the regular
season for sure where I was really impressed with him.
But he has to become a better shooter and you
have to see elite from him. I trust that trio
of Curry, Jimmy Butler Draymond Green. The thing is they're
aging and you could see a scenario like that happen

(01:12:38):
this year where one of those guys goes down, and
if one of those guys goes down, obviously Curry being
the most important piece, that they're cooked and they're done.
So you have to build around the margins. Jonathan minga
sign and trade does seem reasonable. Of course, is a
restricted free agent, so that wordors can match any offer,
which would be just cool to do if they did,
like set him free, like he's a little birdie, Like
set him pretty out of his cage. You literally have

(01:12:59):
him in a cage right now. He's not in the
right system. So so I think that's I think that's
the most likely scenario assigning trade there. I don't know
how much you're gonna get back necessarily for that or
what that deal would be. The problem is the Warriors
do not have a lot of cap space because what
they're playing Steph Curry, Jamon Jimmy Butler, and Draymond Green.
Like Gary Payton is just a zero offensively. He's good defender,

(01:13:22):
you do, yeah, I mean he's yeah, he has to be.
He has to be more of a threat from three.

Speaker 2 (01:13:27):
Yeah, he'll shoot him though, like and he'll hit a
couple he's not again, like he's very limited ceiling on
who he is. But I would keep Gary Payton around.

Speaker 1 (01:13:36):
Yeah, and Moses Moody same thing, like a guy that
you can't really trust offensively, So with with Jimmy Butler,
and that's why I didn't work with Johnathan Kaminga because
at the in the end, when you get Jimmy Butler,
you can't have Jimmy Butler, Johnathan Kaminga and and Dremon
green on four together because that's three non shooters. And yes,
you're the best shoot in the world and Steph Curry
best shooter of all time, it's still non shooters surround

(01:13:58):
for three non shooters surrounding, so you need more shooting
around Steph Curry. And that's why it made sense. Kamingo
was Benson because he's kind of just a replica and
a worse version of Jimmy Butler, especially as a playmaker
in a lot of ways. So I got so, I
got it, like it made sense. But obviously Kaminga is
gonna be gone. You have to build around the margins
and just surround them with shooting. The West is gonna

(01:14:19):
be insanely competitive next year like it is this year,
like it was last year, Like you really don't know
who's gonna merge year and you're out. The thunder will
still be around. Of course, the Nuggets with Jokic, the
MAVs could be surprisingly competitive again next year. Let's see
what the Rockets do if they somehow get Yannis or
another team in the West gets Yannis. So it's just
it's hard to imagine they're a good team like they

(01:14:40):
were twenty three and seven with Jimmy Butler, Like that's good,
they're top four, they were a top three team in
the West, completely healthy with Jimmy Butler this season. But
with how good the West it is and is gonna
get even better this offseason, it's hard to see them
really competing over the next two seasons with olding aging
stars as the West gets young.

Speaker 2 (01:14:59):
Yeah, I do agree, but I think the only other
like direction you could possibly look is is it time
to end with Steph Curry era? And I don't think
that should be the case here, Like he can't. You
can't that he ends the error when he wants to
end that air. Agree, That's kind of where I land
all that. So, if Curry is still fully invested in
want to run it back and compete, you keep trying
to take swings of this, and if you do have
Steph Curry, you do still have a chance. Like he

(01:15:19):
hasn't really shown these signs of decline that you should
be worrying about at this point in the game. So
I do mostly agree. I think the window to win
is probably over. I think the West is just too
competitive at this stage in this game. But when you
have Steph Curry, when you have Jimmy Butler, it is
worth at least trying to give yourself a chance here.
So I think that's the unfortunate direction. I don't think
there's really a pathway to climbing where you could be
remotely viewed as favorites or in the same mix as

(01:15:42):
these you know, the Thunder, the Nuggets, all these teams
that were mentioning, and let's not even forget teams like
the Spurs are absolutely going to take a leap forward
next year. There's gonna be a lot of talent in
this Western Conference. But you got to try if your
golden state is sort of where I land there.

Speaker 1 (01:15:54):
Yeah, I mean, that's that's really the only option, because
now they've committed the next two years to this older
group and hoping Curry, Butler and Jerry Mungreen are gonna
compete for titles of the next two seasons and and
after that they're gonna be even older after those two years,
and they're gonna be free from some contracts but they're
probably not gonna have a lot of young help. So
it's it's gonna be some rough times in Golden State

(01:16:15):
in that post Curry, post Steve Kirk, because Steve curR
will be gone. When Curry's gone era in Golden State,
we'll see what happens with that. Do we want to
talk some drafts, some lottery, some Ace Bailey potentially?

Speaker 2 (01:16:26):
Yeah, I got a quick a couple of minutes before
before we wrap up here, so yeah, hit me with it. Whatever,
where's your head at here? All right?

Speaker 1 (01:16:32):
So we'll we'll be all back on Monday previewing the series.
The Western Conference Finals and Eystern Conference Finals will be set.
We'll be proving those on Monday, and we'll be going
deeper deeper into the draft and the sixers. I'm just
this Ace Vailey thing is getting a lotle ridiculous.

Speaker 2 (01:16:46):
It certainly is both ways, both ways. I don't think
I've ever seen a prospect's polarizing, to be perfecty honest.

Speaker 1 (01:16:51):
Yeah, it's it's it's getting weird. And maybe we're two
online and we probably are too online. And of course
our buddy Mark Henry Junior, I'm seeing a lot more
because of how passionate he feels as a pro Ace
Bailey guy, but it's this guy is a volatile prospect.
I mean, I'm seeing swings like this guy is literally
gonna be the next Kevin Durant and swings like this
guy is gonna be the next I don't even know

(01:17:13):
the worst player word, biggest bust since whoever you want
to me. So I'm seeing I'm seeing complete both ways
in the different directions. Reasonably, it's gonna end up somewhere
in the middle. Yeah, and that's where I land. But
I'm definitely more towards the I wouldn't take in for
the Sixers, so real quick, just to wrap up, I
know you're an Ace Bailey guy. I know you want
the Sixers to take him.

Speaker 2 (01:17:33):
Give me your pitch, So obviously the concerns are fair here.
Like he definitely needs to work on a shot selection,
he definitely needs to put on weight. His first step
isn't quite where you want it to be. And like,
I think, to give a little bit of defense for him,
I still think people under sell how bad that records
team was and what a port system that he played in,
lack of coaching, all these things, and the thing that
I want to point out, like I was an Ace

(01:17:55):
Bailey skeptic at the start of this season watching him
on TV and the highlights and the tape and all that,
my opinion of him did change when I went and
watched him in person up at Rutgers, because the number
one impression that I walked away from that game was
is this dude really cares. This dude really competes. He
plays with a motor that won me over there. And
when you have that level of motor, which I saw firsthand,
and I think if you actually want to watch the

(01:18:16):
film you will notice as well, the competition level on
both ends of the floor. When you have that type
of motor, with the physical skill set that he has
and still the shot making ability that he possesses, that's
a guy I'm willing to bet on. And that's how
I feel about Ace Bailey here. So I understand the case.
I still think there's a world where the Sixers trade
down and I'll kind of avoid a bunch of this.
I think a lot of this we view this as

(01:18:37):
a three player draft or we're so happy we got
the third pick, is in an effort to drive up
the market a little bit. Here, But I just think
there's a little bit too much I see with Ace
Bailey that is worth betting on at this point in
the game. I get the concerns the legitimate nobody's an
idiot for being a little bit skeptical of him at three,
but I would take the guy if I'm on the
clock right now.

Speaker 1 (01:18:56):
It's a good point what you say about Daryl Morey,
because he's been out in the media recently this Ace
Bailey stock and that people some people are falling for it,
like he really believes what he's saying. He is driving
the market up, get people up to three, and I
think we both agree they shouldn't trade that for a
win now player. I mean, there's some guys like a
Terry Easton you could say out there if the Rockets
are moving on from him, which I don't know why

(01:19:17):
they would.

Speaker 2 (01:19:18):
The one I would have in mind there if we're
talking like Tarry Easton and the tenth pick for the
three pick, you sign for that ten times out of ten.

Speaker 1 (01:19:24):
Oh yeah, I would definitely do that too. But I
don't think sure. I don't think the Rockets have no
reason to do that. They don't need Aast Bailey type
right now on that roster, especially if Giannis is coming through.
But I will say, like a player like that, I
would probably also on the younger side. But the thing is,
when you get a rookie, you're gonna have a manageball contract.
And the Six are paying a bunch of guys a

(01:19:44):
lot of money and they do not have a good
cap situation. So you'd rather have a manageable contract than
trade that pick for a more veteran win now ready player.
But my point is that I think they could trade
back to take a win now player. I think VG
Edgecombe is the guy, but we won't talk about him
just yet. Today. You go want a win now ready player.
And Ace Bailey is a project. And so I've started

(01:20:05):
diving into Ace Baile. I started diving into his film,
and I wanted to start with the positives.

Speaker 2 (01:20:09):
So where did I go?

Speaker 1 (01:20:10):
I went to his thirty nine point performance against Indiana
the season Let's watch Ace Bailey cook, And I remember
kind of watching it live. I don't really remember like
how great, great of a shot making game it was.
I came away with a negative impression. I'm not gonna lie.
And the reason why is and the reason why is

(01:20:31):
because he made some absurd, absurdly difficult shots. You don't
shoot those shots in the NBA. You just don't. I
don't like, maybe if you're Kevin Durant, but even Kevin
Durant now with the way the game is played and
the mid range and the tough twos are mostly eliminated
from the game, you don't shoot those shots. He was shooting, Yeah,
he was making them. And then I also watched the

(01:20:51):
next game against who is it? He had nine points.
The next game. I forget, I forget who they played now,
but I watched that game and it was the same thing.
It's like, he's shooting these same shit. It's just question
if he's making them or not making them or missing them.
Those aren't high quality shots, and I don't care. I'll
give you the advanced numbers, but it's true shooting percentage
for fifty three percent, which isn't great. Like I don't
even care about that. I'm using my eye tests and

(01:21:13):
what it's telling me is these are awful shots. Like
you don't get those shots. But you don't shoot those shots,
even if you make them at somewhat of a high clip,
Those long contested mid range twos are just not shots
that you shoot in the NBA, he was only sixteen percent.
He's a fine three point shooting off in the special
thirty four percent from three on the year, but only
sixteen percent on open catch and shoot threes this year,
which was a little surprising. Well when I saw that

(01:21:35):
number on Synergy. So it's just these were awful shots.
Like he is shot selection, which also means his decision
making is just dumb. And that's also proof in his
turnover assist percentage or ratio because he had more turnovers
and assist this series. Not a good passer. Like, it's
just he is decision making and his shot quality is
so so bad. He's a project and the Sixers shouldn't

(01:21:57):
want a project right now.

Speaker 2 (01:21:59):
And guess what, Sam, He's not going to shoot those
shots the NBA. You're not shooting those shots when you're
sharing the floor shot.

Speaker 1 (01:22:04):
Do you have any d like how defluid is to
go from that's your shot type throughout your entire career
and then you're going into a system. But like, you
can't shoot those shots, go shoot these shots.

Speaker 2 (01:22:14):
There was one other player on that Rutgers team that
shot above thirty percent from three. There was no other
players that had above fifty percent effective field goal percentage.
And as far as the assists to turnover conversation, other
players have to make shots for an assist to count. Here,
I think we kind of forget about that. I do
think we do a disservice for it. There was no
sort of offense frunt of that Rutgers team. This guy
also spent four years at public school. He was not

(01:22:36):
a prep school guy. I don't think he's ever been
properly coached or taught basketball to the level that his
talent commands. You get him under Nick Nurse with the
defined role of you are just going to do these
specific things, hit, spot up three pointers, be a guy
that defends, which I do think he's a high level defender.
That's your role to start, and then we can add
to that that's a player that I can believe in. So, yes,

(01:22:56):
he's a project to start, But I don't think the
floor version of who he is right now is like
a zero to what he brings to the Sixers team.

Speaker 1 (01:23:02):
Well that's why I text you too. And I don't
know the grassroots scene in Georgia necessarily, but I actually
think that it can be a good thing if you've
been coached by some great public schools, like guys who
go to really good public schools with really good coaches
is sometimes better than going to preparatory and private schools.
And then but that's also a negative against shrafting him

(01:23:22):
in my opinion, because you don't want a guy who
needs to be coached and developed and who's essentially a project.
What you're saying by someone who hasn't got good coaching
and needs to be coached is he's a project. You
don't want a project right now. For the Sixers, Yeah,
the Sixers do have to thread this needle between they
need a win now ready guy because they are on
two timelines. Like, yeah, it's funny that Warriors always talk
about their two timeline approach and they're actually winning championships

(01:23:44):
when they discussed that the Sixers are on a two
timeline approach right now where they are in win now
ready mode, but they also have a couple of cornerstone
pieces with Maxi and McCain for the future where you
need to thread the needle but finding a win now
ready guy but also a guy who can help you
beyond the Joel and beat area and you compare with
a Maxi and with and with a McCain. And sure, theoretically,

(01:24:07):
Ace Bailey is that guy because of his star potential,
because of how high a ceiling is in terms of winning.
Now ready, guy, Ace Bailey is not that guy because
he's a project. You those are shots that you can say,
it's the roster whatever. You shoot those shots because your
conditioned to shoot those shots. And he is a difficult
shot maker. He can make difficult shots more than most
guys coming out of college and more than most guys

(01:24:28):
a lot in the NBA. I just his efficiency is
inconsistently from night in the night out and his shots selection,
where it's like you have to eliminate that shot profile
from your game and it's gonna be a really hard
adjustment for him to do that. And it's just like,
do you want a Jalen Green on your team? Like,
Jalen Green is a really talented player. I get the
talent with Jalen Green talent, I get the talent with

(01:24:48):
Ace Bailey. Jalen Green goes through two month stretches where
he's looks like a top twenty player in the league,
and then he goes through two month stretches with guys
one of the worst efficiency and when wors true shooting
percentage and effective goigal percentage in the entire MBA, where
he looks like he shouldn't even be on the court.
So that's what you're getting, in my opinion, with an
Ace bailing, and I get the defect. I get like
when I watch his drives, honestly looks like Harden and

(01:25:10):
I'm impressed by he doesn't get to the freedom line
that much, but I'm impressed by his ability to create
contact on his drives and has elbows out kind of
hardened esque. But and he's a pretty good finisher. But
I just the handle isn't that great. As a passer,
he's not that great, and just the shot selection, it's
he he could be a really good player. He's a project,
and the Sixers should not want a project right now.

Speaker 2 (01:25:32):
I think the floor of him is still a starting point.
And I think the context of this is uh is
all important to note. So I gotta hop over and
right for some my DraftKings job from now. So I'll
have some nice prop bets coming out for the Celtics
versus next today, some prediction and stuff on that so
make sure we tap it in for that. But we
are gonna have to bookmark and revisits from a bail.

Speaker 1 (01:25:50):
You know, we're gonna be doing Ace Bailey stuff the
next the next month, Sean Bernard, Sam ast Year picks
and well I'm sending those props because I'll ride in today.
I'm sure they'll be all Celtic ask But thanks for
tuning everybody. We will talk to you on Monday.