Ep. 96: Luka Dončić Looking SLIM, Joel Embiid's Future in Doubt, and the Start of NFL Season - 07/28/25

Sean Barnard and Sam Oshtry discuss Luka Dončić lookin' SLIM, Joel Embiid's future in doubt, and the start of the NFL season.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Number one on your car radio preset hand the new
and improved Diehard radiop WDA YES and WD two seven
three D Philadelphia Ice, Fox Sports Radio The Gambler Picks
and Roll Handicapping the Hardwood with Sixers insider Sean Bernard
and Sean Brace.

Speaker 2 (00:17):
Hello and welcome back to another episode of Picks and Roll.
My name is Sean Bernard here with Sam Astrey. Here
with you on Fox Sports The Gambler. A little bit
of a little in the sports calendar here, but things
are starting to heat up.

Speaker 3 (00:28):
The football season is on the horizon.

Speaker 2 (00:30):
The man is the NBA offseason still finalizing its last
couple of factors here, and of course the MLB trade deadlines.
So we're gonna touch a little bit on everything here
today before we jump right into the news and everything
going on.

Speaker 3 (00:40):
Sam Austrey, how are you doing this fine Monday.

Speaker 4 (00:43):
I'm doing great. It's it's the dog days of summer.
We're almost in August. The summer just flew by, but
we took a couple of weeks off, but we're back
here every single Monday. Sean Bernard and Sam Austria us too.
It's not just for the NBA season. We were talking football,
We're talking everything through through the entire season, every single
Monday morning.

Speaker 2 (01:00):
We got you absolutely, and let's dive right into things
today with Luka Doncic, the man of the hour, to
the guy who there's a lot kind of swirling around
this offseason. He has not signed his extension with the Lakers,
but what he has done seems to have got himself
in quite a bit of good shape.

Speaker 3 (01:14):
So not only is it.

Speaker 2 (01:15):
The typical media tour the best shape of my life quotes,
but we have him on the cover of magazines. We
have him talking in depth about his routine. He's suiting
up for the euro Basket here. What is your thoughts
on the Luka Doncic body transformation here? Do you think
this is here to stay? Do you think this is
good press? What was your immediate reaction.

Speaker 3 (01:31):
To him landing a magazine cover?

Speaker 4 (01:33):
Yes, So the MAVs did their pr spin. They did
months and months of their pr spin of why they
traded Luka Doncicz. He was eating too many burgers, he
was drinking too many beers. He's too fat, he's out
of shape. We don't trust him to get in shape.
Now it's Lucas time and Lucas PR team their opportunity
to do their PR spin on this entire situation, and

(01:55):
they're doing it well because it's not just a PR spin.
It looks to be legitimate work and progress on Luca's
body where he looks slim. I mean, I am a
guy who is anti anti anti off season body transformation talk,
like it's all just like bs when you hear a
guy comes into camp, Oh, we dropped twenty thirty pounds,

(02:15):
always looking much in my life, best shape of his life,
he changed his diet, or even on the flip side,
where a lot of times it's like, oh, this guy
put on twenty thirty pounds of muscle, and it's just
like it never actually materializes on the court most of
the time. When you hear this stuff, I'm buying into
Luca Donci's propaganda. I'm buying into it. He looks incredible.

(02:37):
I mean, he looks super slim, skinny, like ripped and
chiseled in a way you haven't seen. Like you you
genuinely compare pictures of him right now to how last
season ended, and he was like fat, he had like
a triple chin going on, he was overweight, and now
he just looks completely chiseled and in great shape. And
when you read the actual of the men's health story
of the interminute fasting that he's doing and too high

(02:59):
protein meals and a protein shake and just workouts and
constant lifting and conditioning workouts and of course all all
the on court stuff, it genuinely looks like and seems
like he's transformed his body and he's all the motivation
to do so, because there are a lot of naysay,
there's a lot of doubt right now, a player of
his caliber does not get traded from a team for
without I mean, there was no good reason, but it

(03:21):
just usually just doesn't happen, and it did for for
Luca Doncis. So he has all the motivation motivation in
the world to come back in the best shape of
his life, and it seems like he's doing that.

Speaker 3 (03:30):
Yeah, one hundred percent.

Speaker 2 (03:31):
There, I'm not all the way bought in in the
way that I'm surprised to hear you as back this
as much the thing that I'll.

Speaker 4 (03:37):
Say it looks good, Admit, he looks good.

Speaker 3 (03:39):
He does.

Speaker 2 (03:40):
But I've seen Ben Simmons make three pointers in an
open gym plenty of times as well, so I do
always view the off season with a little bit of
a grain of salt. I would say there for Lucas specifically,
the thing that's like kind of frightening to me, and
I'm not again, it is still incredibly dumb to me
that the Mavericks did make that trade. Unless his body
completely falls apart in next year or two, I think

(04:01):
you can't look at that in any sort of way
outside that was one of the worst and most bizarre
trades we've ever heard. I think history will live to
tell that story that. But the thing with Lucas specifically
that I will say, when you look at the way
that he moved his rookie season compared to the way
that he has moved lately, it is night and day
different that you can see, not just like the weight
that he's put on, but it's kind of like there's

(04:22):
like a way he lumbers around the court which did
not used to be the case. It would be interesting
if this does turn back the clock and begin to
fix that there. It is absolutely worth the attempt, and
he should be completely committed to getting the best shape
that his body possibly can.

Speaker 3 (04:35):
We know that Luka Dancic is never gonna be.

Speaker 2 (04:36):
A guy who athleticism and physicality are gonna be the
story that there is, the style that he plays, the
feel for the game that he possesses, they are gonna
be his strengths and what he hangs his hat on
his basketball player. But that doesn't mean you can't try
in these other areas as well. So I love that
he's committed and going for it. I do think there's
a world where the best thing for Lukadancic was sort
of the kick in the butt that happened from Dallas

(04:57):
by them sending him away, saying we don't respect way
that you go about your process, the way that you
don't have your one hundred percent commitment to basketball here.
And maybe this does have him reach another gear. A
guy who I think was already a pre consensus top
six player in the NBA may have just leveled up
himself quite a few notches. So we'll see it woul
ultimately unfold from there. But I guess I wanted to

(05:18):
ask you based on that, do you take anything or
any sort of stock into the fact.

Speaker 3 (05:21):
That there has not been an extension signed yet?

Speaker 4 (05:25):
Not really, No, I'm pretty sure he's going to sign extension.
La I can't really see him letting this season kind
of fall or letting this contract fall out, and then
eventually he would have to become free agent and go
through that for agent process. I don't see that happening.
Based on the fact that there aren't a lot of
cities I think Luca Doncicz could and would live in

(05:46):
and I think, of course he adopted Dallas and that
became a second home. But I think LA is a
city that he would like and would like to actually
spend the rest of his career. The second part of
that is he's actively been recruiting for the Lakers. I mean,
like Marcus Smart was a guy that he had a
role in bringing aboard. You don't do that unless you're
planning on spending time at that franchise long term and

(06:07):
signing long term. So I think the extension will be signed.
I'm not concerned all about it. He becomes eligible this week,
I believe to sign that extension. I think that it'll happen.
He'll be in LA, he's doing his Jordan tour. He's
in New York, and then he's going to Chicago and
he's going out to LA. So I think, honestly, when
he's in LA in the next week or so. That
could be the end of this media pr tour that

(06:29):
he's doing. And the final note is that he signs
an long term extension with LA. I don't see any
doubts about that. But I wanted to go back to
something you said earlier, which was a great point about
how his game has changed in a vault from his
first season to now, and part of that is due
to conditioning. Everyone thinks of Luga Doncic as this player
who plays with incredible pace, his acceleration, deceleration, all that stuff.

(06:51):
He's phenomenal all of that, and that's honestly what's made
him so great, because he's not some athletic specimen. But
if you go back and watch him his first seasons,
he had had a ton of bursts, like his burst
in transition especially was really impressive. And you go back
and look at the numbers and his attempts at the rim.
That rate has just lowered and lowered the year after year.

(07:12):
So he hasn't got to the rim as much the
last couple of seasons, and you can kind of attribute
that to partly conditioning, and he's relied more on his
three ball more than anything and kind of just taken
I don't want to say lazy shot attempts, but maybe
not some of the best shot atmes because he's a
good three point shooter. He's not some spectacular three point shooter.
He was getting to the rim much better earlier in
his career. I think all that has to do with

(07:34):
every The biggest criticism against him is conditioning, and of
course we know his defense. I think that's actually as
much about effort than anything, and then there will be
improvement on that end. Two based on all the criticism
he's received over the last couple of years. But all
of this has to do with getting in better shape,
rebuilding his body to become a top two player in
the league, which he's capable of, like he really is.

(07:55):
And I think the Lakers are a contender just because
of Luga dat interest in what he can do as
one of the best players the league. Next season, when
we saw a MAVs team that was the perfect fit
around him, but Luca wasn't in great shape that entire season.
He had an awesome season, but he wasn't in great
shape and we saw that in the playoffs and he
dealt with some injuries in the playoffs, but he still
had one of the better seasons of his career and

(08:17):
led a MAVs team to the finals. I have no
doubt he can drag a mediocre to above average at
best roster to the finals.

Speaker 2 (08:25):
Yeah, one hundred percent there that I do think Luka
Doncic fits the category of player that you drop him
on just about any basketball team and they're gonna be
They're gonna at least have a chance, They'll have a
puncher's chance. And even that Mavericks team like, yes, it
was very well catered to his skill set and like
chemistry wise, the way that these guys played off each other,
having as many lob threats as they did, having the
three and D style of guys to surround Luca with.

(08:46):
But that wasn't a crazy talented roster by any means.
It's impressive that he was able to take that team
to the finals there and being the clear at the
center of it. So I also my last kind of
caveat I'll throw on sort of the fitness thing. I
always have a bit more sympathy for guys like Luca here,
who I do think most of the fitness issues have
been at least correlated to the injuries that he sustained

(09:07):
and like to tie it to Joel Embid and we'll
get into that conversation a second here. It's tough for
me to be real critical of a guy for not
showing up in shape when he's had to stay off
his feet due to recovering from a surgery or something
like that for the past couple of months that I
think Luca has unfortunately fell on that sort of bit
as well.

Speaker 4 (09:23):
But that's true for sure, And another part of that
is last year he was coming off a season where
he made the NBA Finals. Like playing ending your season
in the end of April versus ending your season in
June and the recovery that you get from that are
two completely different things. So I think there's some benefits
to the fact that Lake's actually lost in the first
round and lost early in the first round. But while
we're on the topic, I don't think this Lakers team

(09:45):
is very good, like I think they're contender because Luca
can be on any team, and that team is a contender.
He's that great. I don't think this team is that
good beyond him. But what you're seeing is is what
I think they've told Luca, and Luca understands at this
point why he's going to sign a long term extensions.
They're saving caps for next season and summer twenty twenty
six and the summer of twenty twenty seven, and that's
kind of been their goal, which is preserving cap space

(10:08):
to build around Luka Doncics, maybe get him another star,
whether that's via trade, whether the star becomes available in freegency,
whatever that is. But Lebron James is gone. I mean,
I don't care if he retires or what happens. Lakers
want nothing to do with him after this season, and
they've made that pretty clear, and he's made pretty clear
that he's upset with that, as is his entire camp,
including Rich Paul. But that's the right approach in Lakers.

(10:30):
You don't want Lebron James pass this year, taking up
fifty plus million dollars on your books. He's not worth
that contract or as a basketball player at this point
of his career. But we saw late in the playoffs
against against the Wolves in that first round he could
either play offense or defense. He couldn't play both, like
he could not get and it was in the fourth
quarter of some of those Wolves games, it was all defense,

(10:51):
and he was great defensively, but he was a non
factor offensively. He's not at the point of his career
where that late into a season he can be playing
at a level the Lakers need to need him to
play that to justify paying him fifty million dollars. So
that's why that the Lakers are taking this approach where
they just want cap space for the next two summers
and they're preparing to unload Lebron James off their books,

(11:14):
which is the right approach, and then build the team
around Luca Doncheon. I think Luca understands that even if
this particular roster with DeAndre and Austin Reeves and all
those guys, isn't a team that can probably contend in
an incredibly deep West.

Speaker 3 (11:28):
Yeah, so it's interesting Lebron stuff. Right.

Speaker 2 (11:31):
It feels like to me like we keep hearing these
little whispers and we haven't really got like the full
that deep dive story that rips the band aid open.

Speaker 3 (11:39):
Yet we know.

Speaker 2 (11:40):
Obviously he's not happy with the Lakers organization, and honestly,
there's been some reporting that makes me pretty makes it
pretty clear to me like the Lakers organization kind of
is cool with him not being happy with them, and
this almost feels.

Speaker 4 (11:51):
This they should be And I think this is smart
by the Lakers.

Speaker 3 (11:53):
Yes, I get it from all angles there.

Speaker 2 (11:56):
The bottom line is he's still opted into his contract
for the fifty million for this year. He's still going
to be a member of the Lakers, in which they
unless they can move on from him. So that brings
me the question Sam Austrey to flash forward to the
NBA playoffs this year. So after the trade that mine,
are Luca don to to Lebron James or both on
the Los Angeles Lakers.

Speaker 4 (12:17):
Well, definitely Luca. Yeah, I mean there's no way the
Lakers would trade Luca.

Speaker 3 (12:22):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (12:22):
I think they both are. I think they both are.
But it's it's tough because let's go through the options here.
So Lebron either requests the trade and they're incredibly Lakers
have no obligation to trade him because they're prepared to
let them walk anyway, and they owe nothing to Lebron
James to the franchise. Yeah, he won them one championship.
Most Lakers fans won't even resonate with that championship because

(12:43):
it was in the bubble, there was no parade, there's
no real celebration during COVID and all that. So and
that that's in what eight years of service, one championship.
Lakers fans feel no type of emotional attachment to Lebron
like they do some of their previous stars. So exactly, so,
there's no there's nothing the Lakers oh Lebron James. So
if you want to, you don't have to trade him

(13:05):
just because he requests a trade. They were prepared to
unload him off the books anyway, so it's not like
you're They're prepared to get no value for him, for
him anyway after next going into next offseason. So if
you request a trade, I'm not trading him. What are
you gonna do? Not play this season? He's not gonna
not play. The season is getting up there in age.
He needs every season he can get at this point
to actually be on the court. So I wouldn't trade

(13:27):
him if you request the trade. The next option is
he plays out this contract and Lakers don't want to
resign them, and where does he go, Like, who is
he willing to take a massive pay cut where it
would be justify the Calves signing Because the Calves can't
sign him now, and we'll see how their season goes
whether they would justify or be willing to blow it up.
But the Calves can't sign him now because with what

(13:50):
he's worth and what he would command on the free
agent markets, they just they're already in the second apron.
They can't afford that. The would he be willing to
take for it less to go back to Cleveland with
the Clippers. Maybe he signed him so he stays in LA,
which would be quite something. Where does Lebron James go
if he's actually not willing to take a pay cup
and the next option is retired retirement And I can't

(14:12):
really see him retiring without going through the most unbelievable
farewell tour we've ever seen. That's just not in his DNA.
He will everyone will know when he's retiring before the
season or somewhere early in the season, so he can
get that farewell tour. So it's not gonna be a
late after next season decision. There's no scenario of that.
So out of those scenarios, like what's the most likely,
I don't think he's gonna get treated because I don't

(14:32):
see any value when the Lakers treating him.

Speaker 3 (14:35):
Yeah, I think the.

Speaker 2 (14:35):
Most likely is he starts and finishes the season with
the Los Angeles Lakers, and then we see what happens
in the offseason. I do think ultimately, I don't think
he's done. I think, like I totally agree with you,
that we will get the Lebron James Victory Tour, the
farewell Tour, and then making sure he gets his flowers
in every city that he stops at and all of that.

Speaker 3 (14:52):
That just is sort of what he's about.

Speaker 2 (14:54):
And the other point I'll note with Lebron, and I
mean this mostly as a compliment, even though it comes
off insulting. Here does not have it in him to
be the disruptor to motivate a trade him Like, he's
not gonna be Jimmy Butler where he's dogging games.

Speaker 3 (15:06):
Nor should he.

Speaker 2 (15:07):
Like when you think about how important legacy is this
guy and playing with his son as a part of
the organization and all the people that idolize Lebron James
as a basketball player, he can't be the guy that
is I'm not suiting up or I'm showing up late
to practice, or I'm not going all out in this game.
That's just not how his story should conclude here, and
I don't think that he will go down that pathway either. Also,
I've seen the buyout stuff floated out there that makes

(15:29):
even less sense to me, Like why in the world
would the Lakers buy him out?

Speaker 3 (15:33):
Like what do they get out of that? How in
any world is that beneficial? And I don't know.

Speaker 2 (15:38):
It just feels to me very strange that we've never
had a player, a guy who's one of the two
best basketball players of all time, who's still playing at
a very high level still even with the offense first
defense comment you made like he's still one of the
twenty five best players in the league for sure, and
that's crazy to say at the age forty he is
at right here, It's very strange.

Speaker 3 (15:57):
I do think that this will be his last year
in Los Angeles.

Speaker 2 (16:00):
Don't think he's done playing basketball, but I think we're
gonna see this weirdness from start to finish this season.

Speaker 4 (16:05):
It's also worth noting as a no trade clause, so
when people start speculating about where he would be traded,
he has to approve any trade trade destination. So where
would he really go? And just said the calves the
Calves would have to give up a lot and I
don't know. Yeah, so they would have to give up
Matt Shalloy's but that would be like a Darius Garland
and the Jared Allen and and and it would they

(16:25):
would have to pretty much cut their team for one,
maybe two years of Lebron James. We've discussed that. I
don't think that's smart. Would he go out east like
to New York the Knicks? The Knicks, it would make
no sense for the Knicks to give up mckail Bridges
or kar Anthony Towns for one or two seasons of
Lebron James at this point. It wouldn't It would not
make sense. It would be a championship. But I don't

(16:47):
think that he moves the needle. If you're giving up
a mchail Bridges and a Kronthy Towns or even one
of them, I don't think he moves the needle where
those guys should. Mckall bridge's extension is still looming, we'll
see what happens with that, but those guys should be
on the Knicks for the long term future. So where
would he really actually accept a trade too. He's not
going to some random team that wouldn't immediately allow him

(17:10):
to contend for a championship in some random city. That's
just not what he's doing at this point of his
life and career. So there are very few trade destinations
he would actually approve them. So it just doesn't even
seem practical for Lakers to trade him and for him
to accept a trade to certain destinations.

Speaker 2 (17:25):
And I understand the West is so competitive right now,
like realistically, the Lakers don't stand up to the Rockets
or Thunder or you go down the list the Nuggets
the way that they've improved this office here, But I
still think like as far as the grass is not
always greener, like look around Lebron, for the same reason
as you're saying, where do you have a better chance
than Los Angeles currently? That if this was the prime
version of Lebron James, he would look at this Lakers

(17:47):
roster and be like, oh, yeah, we're going to the finals, man,
Like I can take this team compared to some of
the other rosters that he's had surrounding them.

Speaker 3 (17:53):
This, I mean, Luka dantic Is sharing the floor with them.

Speaker 2 (17:56):
It is a little funny as we reflect on all this,
like timelines and win now like this team traded for
Luka Doncic last year and you're complaining about not having
a good enough chance to win, like that is probably
the best player that he's ever played alongside, and that's
pretty absurd to say at this point in his career. Obviously,
there is the caveats to that with him being on
the downside and the kind of weird power balance that
we're seeing emerging. But nonetheless, I do think that these two,

(18:19):
like the Lakers and Lebron, are gonna be an intertwined
story for the season. But it does feel like the
pettiness is going to continuous. Do you think we get
more of that and it just drifts throughout the year.
Do you think at some point there is like a
Kumbaya moment here? Yeah?

Speaker 4 (18:30):
No, I think the pettiness continues. If anything about his
career and track record tells us he will be petty,
and he's been petty when he's had multiple years left
on his deals, and he's honestly held the organization hostage.
I mean, you'll see like every around December or early
January every single year, there was a Lebron James press
conference where he's putting some type of pressure on his

(18:51):
organization's front office and the Lakers maybe just lost three
in a row or his team lost three in a row,
and he's making some Poudy comment of out how the
team's not structured right. Every year, every location, he's done it,
even when they win the title, he's done it around
that mid January to early January mark. So that's coming.
The only difference this year is he is no leverage

(19:14):
because the Lakers are willing and want to part with
him after this season, So he has no leverage in
these scenarios. So what are you gonna say. If you're
gonna start criticizing Lakers front office, there's nothing to say.
And this roster is really flawed. But to your point,
they have a top four player at the worst. At
the worst, the top four player in the entire league.
If I see Lebron James lower than a lot of

(19:35):
other people, but a lot of other people still see
him as a top ten to fifteen player in the league.
At that starting point, this should be one of the
best teams in the West. Again, very flawed roster, especially
defensively at the point of attack. When you've Austin Reeves
and Luka Doncica as your backcourt. I am not Deandrayton
fan at all. I don't think he's the right center
to pair with Luca, And of course the attitude, effort,

(19:56):
character concerns are very evident, so I'm not a big
Deandraytan fan. But the talent is there, so there's really
no excuse for this team not to be a top
four to five seed in the West. And then they
built a little bit more depth this season this offseason too,
But I just I don't see this. I don't see
Lebron doing anything other than constant petty moves, constantly being

(20:17):
a distraction around mid January up until the trade deadline,
and then after that maybe it's just all right, let's
go compete for a championship. But that's usually the Lebron
James blueprint.

Speaker 2 (20:27):
Top four or five feels a bit high to me
that I do think. I think I view the Lakers
more of a get a ticket in and we'll see
what makes the monet.

Speaker 4 (20:34):
So let's I think we would all agree the Thunder,
the Nuggets, and the Rockets top three, and not that
it'll play out that way, but those are our top
three teams in the West. Who do you have over
the Lakers. Timberwolves, Okay, that's fair. Yeah, bring them back
mostly the same team. I do think Nika Alexander Walker
is a decent loss. Yeah, I don't see them getting
back to West Armons Finals, but that's fair. Clippers and Warriors.

Speaker 3 (20:55):
Of the other two, I might even throw the Spurs.

Speaker 2 (20:58):
I think the Spurs, I've I think people are not
high enough on the Spurs.

Speaker 4 (21:02):
I'm really hot on the Spurs. Just the West is
so good, like like, I think Wemby is gonna be
the MVP Cannon this year. But Lucas also one of
the best players in the league. We just talked about
how he can carry a team. So so you think
that the Lakers are the eighth best.

Speaker 3 (21:16):
Team, probably I probably sit there.

Speaker 4 (21:19):
See, I think the Clippers are gonna have more regular
season wins than the Lakers. Yeah, I still think the
Lakers are a better team.

Speaker 3 (21:25):
I think that's fair. I would probably agree with that.

Speaker 4 (21:27):
And the Warriors, we'll see. I mean, they're bringing their
really old team. I just don't like old teams, like
like the Al Horford and you're bringing Downton Melton. Anthony
Meltain will come back, but you're still Jimmy Butler, Draymond
Green and Steph Curry or Core that's an old team.
So I would say, like the Lakers, Clippers, Warriors are
all on par for me, and I put them around

(21:49):
like the fifth mark fifth fifth to those like the
fifth to seventh best teams in the West, and I
put the Wolves at four with you.

Speaker 2 (21:56):
You you are not digging the Clippers this offseason at all,
it seems.

Speaker 4 (22:01):
No, I'm not.

Speaker 3 (22:02):
I think I see the vision more than you. I'm
not all in.

Speaker 2 (22:05):
I'm not this is perfect, but I do think I
see the vision more than you. So give me the
give me this this spil right here?

Speaker 4 (22:11):
Why?

Speaker 3 (22:11):
Why is this a terrible idea what they're doing.

Speaker 4 (22:13):
I think Norman Pale is a much bigger loss than
people realize, and the reason is because of how great
he was without Kawhi Leonard, Like he was incredible the
first few months of the season, because remember Kawhi Leonard
only played thirty seven games last year, and people kind
of forget that that. We have these illusions about his
health last season because he actually finished sa In healthy
for the first time in a long time. That's because

(22:34):
he started his season in January and only played thirty
seven games on the year, so what the and the
Clippers were a top five seed in the West. And
when Kawhi Leonard was out the first few months of
the season, the reason for that was Norman Pale, who
I thought was an All Star level player. He just
missed the All Star Game based on all the qualifications,
but he averaged twenty two points a game last season.

(22:55):
He shot over forty percent from three, around forty eight
percent from the field. He was an incredible score in
the go to option for that team for the first
few months of the season. And so yeah, when Kawhi
lenders there, I don't think this team's gonna have a
problem competing. Kawhi Leonard is not capable of playing sixty
games fifty games in an NBA season anymore and actually
lasting through the playoffs, so we have to factor that

(23:18):
into account. And when he's out, who's the guy? Now, Yeah,
they got a lot more depth. You get Brook Lopez,
you get John Collins, who I think is gonna have
a great pick and roll two man game with James Harden.
But James Harden's older now then he's obviously a year
older than he was last season, and he hasn't been
the score that he's been or that he was or
in his prime of his career. And then you're bringing
Bradley Beal, who I think will have a decent role

(23:40):
in this team, but again not a guy who I trust.
So you build more depth if you don't have that
go to option that Norman Powell was when Kawhi Leonard
was out, because that's what you have to factor in
is Kawhi Leonard and James are in a year older there,
and Kawhi Leonard is not capable of staying healthy throughout
an entire season, And I think they sacrificed that star power,
and I get the reasoning for doing it, for they

(24:00):
weren't gonna extend norm Pal they so it makes sense
if you're not gonna extend Norman Pawell, you might as
well get something back in return, And they got John
Collins back well. I think is a good addition to
this team, even though he's never really been where it's
been a while since he's been on a really good team.
But at the same time, that doesn't mean they didn't
get worse this season. In my opinion, I just people
are overrating what Bradley Bill's capable of doing as a

(24:22):
go to option when Kawhi Leonards out and even starting
in that moving into that starting slot. And I forgot
about Chris Paul too. I mean, I love Chris Paul,
but again, Chris Paul is what forty one years old
and it's twenty two. Last year did he did and
he was solid for sure? But he's a backup point
guard at this point, and that's how the Clippers are
gonna utilize him. I just I get they got more depth.

(24:42):
I don't like the absence of Norman Pale. When Kawhi
Leonard's out, they just don't have a guy to rely on.
And the West is so deep, They're gonna have a
good defense. They've a great coaching staff. But people are
talking about this team like there's some contender in the West.
They are a first round playoff exit, a guaranteed first
round pl So I'll.

Speaker 2 (25:01):
Start with I love Norman Powell, and I think it's
gonna be excellent for the Miami Heat.

Speaker 3 (25:05):
I think that was a great trade from the Heat's part.

Speaker 2 (25:07):
This is what I'll be complimentary of the Clippers on
is I think, for the first time in forever, really
is they're getting out of their own way, that they
are refusing to just throw more money at band aid
fixes at guys they don't truly believe in, and we're
gonna see a compete.

Speaker 4 (25:19):
Well, what can I counter that they just threw a
two year contract a lot of money at James Harden.

Speaker 3 (25:23):
That's mine.

Speaker 4 (25:24):
You can't believe in.

Speaker 2 (25:25):
My point being here is that's it. That that two
years is when all of this comes off the books.
That that twenty twenty seven offseason, that's when the Clippers
will entirely change their identity where you're not invested in
the James Harden, Kawhi Leonard and whatever washed up start
you're trying to bring in, which there's a lot this offseason.
I think in the short term they can sort of
sell this illusion if we have a chance to win,

(25:46):
we have all these big names, we're going to be competitive,
a good team in the West. But the real plan
here is they're going to completely rebrand and build it
from scratch starting in that twenty twenty seven offseason, which
theoretically Luky Dodgis could be a free agent, Nikola Jokic
could be a free agent, Janni Sandadkumbo could be a
free agent there, and I get like that never always
comes to.

Speaker 4 (26:05):
Incredibly wistful thinking out of you. I hope isn't isn't
banking on any of that?

Speaker 2 (26:10):
Do you think, yeah, what about so Yanna specifically is
obviously the most likely of the three there? Do you
think there's a world where he becomes a free agent
and would sign with the Clippers, Because I kind of do.

Speaker 4 (26:21):
It would be a real disservice to Janni's career, to
himself if he didn't request the trade and just wasted
these next two seasons, if he wasn't spend playing on
spending his entire career in Milwaukee, like you request the
tree and you get out of there now so you
can compete these next two next two seasons for your
prime and and then not even give yourself the opportunity
to become a free agent. If he becomes a free

(26:42):
agent after wasting the next two seasons, these next two
seasons in Milwaukee, that's a disservice to his career.

Speaker 2 (26:48):
My counter to that is, I don't think there's anywhere
he can go to improve his chances of winning this year.
When you look at how open the Eastern Conferences.

Speaker 4 (26:57):
Form in a second, if he wanted to go there
in a second. That's I think that's part of the
reason they haven't extended mckel bridges, because once they do,
you can't trade mckel bridges for sixty days. I believe
it is. I think so that's maybe that's why they haven't.
I think the Knicks would trade for him in a second,
and that team easily becomes the best team in the
favorite in the East.

Speaker 3 (27:14):
Yeah, I agreed there for sure.

Speaker 2 (27:16):
I guess my point being, and I guess if he
can land on another Eastern Conference like the Knicks is
certainly an example of that.

Speaker 3 (27:21):
I will give you that.

Speaker 2 (27:22):
But I do think, like Giannis should and does, feel
the psycho competitor of any time on the floor, my
team has a chance to win, and when I look
around the Eastern Conference, I'm the clear cup best player
in the entire conference. I can carry whoever's with me
to a playoff run. And I think that's probably what
has talked him back into not making a huge stink
this offseason, and seemingly all signs pointing to him running

(27:42):
it back one more year. I do think if he
was to request the trade, and you would hope that
the organization works with him to an extent, But if
he gets sent out West, if he was traded to
the Clippers in this specific example.

Speaker 3 (27:52):
Your chance is winning a championship this year go down.
To be perfectly honest.

Speaker 4 (27:56):
I'm with you on that. I think the Rockets still
the assets to trade for him. Sure, they could give
a good package, and I think that team becomes the
favorite in the West. And yeah, the West is so
deep and so good, but still you gotta beat a
Western Conference teams when the NBA Finals, even if you're
in the East. So so I think there's the Rockets
are and also an option there if the if Giannis
does actually request the trade, which again, as you said,

(28:18):
it points to that he won't do that. I just
I just don't know why he would like waste the
next two seasons if he's planning on leaving there in
free agency in twenty twenty seven. But back to the
Clippers point, it's just this team is Yes, I agree
that they're they're all kind of on a two year timeline,
but this team is not capable of winning four straight
series in the West. I mean, we saw how young

(28:40):
the Pacers were and how young the thunder were you
have to get younger in today's NBA, and this Clippers
team just got older. I mean there's I believe the
stat is it was from Brian win Oris, and this
is going to be the third team in NBA history
that will have one player in the rotation or will
play one player in a game that's under twenty eight
years old. Like this team is so so old. It's

(29:03):
just you can't win with old teams in the NBA anymore.
It just doesn't happen. Like the NBA is trending in
a younger direction and this team is going the opposite way.
So I get there on this to year timeline, but
I don't see any scenario where this they win a championship.
We'ven make the finals or make a deep playoff for
un and make their first conference finals in a two
year in this two year timeline. So I don't know

(29:24):
why they wouldn't just kind of get to that rebuild,
if you want to call it, which will be entering
in two years in twenty twenty seven, with a lot
of cap space and some assets to work with. I
don't understand why the wouldn't just get to that place
sooner at this point and I get why for all
the business reasons and you want to even be relevant
and compete, but it's just that this team isn't going anywhere.
Get like I said, this is a first round exit team.

Speaker 2 (29:46):
I think if you were to give truth serum to
Steve Balmer in the entire clipbersfront office that they know
in their heart and parts right now they're not a
championship contender. But you can tell yourself that way, and
I think there is value in that. And I do
think that twenty twenty seven offseason and is like I
can't remember the last time that the Clippers haven't had
some sort of high dollar figure committed to some player

(30:07):
that is good but not great, you know what I mean?
Like Kwhi at his peak has been the most impressive
talent that maybe the franchise has seen. Like even Paul
Blake Griffin. You can run through the primes of these
were very good players. These were worth taking a chance on.
You had some hope there, but they never fully put
it together. So I do kind of respect, appreciate and
understand why this is the We're going to take the
full reset in two years and then begin building from there.

Speaker 3 (30:30):
The last point that.

Speaker 2 (30:30):
A note on that the philad obvious seventy six Ers
hold their twenty twenty seven first first round pick. They're
unprotected coming from the original James Harden trade, So keep
that in mind. If this plan that they have does
not work out there.

Speaker 4 (30:42):
Both those teams will desperately want that pick.

Speaker 2 (30:45):
Yes, absolutely there, So that could turn out to be
a pretty valuable asset or player that it could turn into,
depending on things go to keep it on the Sixers here,
we did get a bit of a not so friendly
report regarding our guy Joel Embiid, who obviously is the
biggest quest mark maybe in the entire NBA next year.
So Keith Pompey hopped on I believe he was on
NBA radio here and he said, the quote that is

(31:07):
making its rounds is quote I think Joel might know
the end is near now. I will say to be
fair to Keith here, when you do listen to his
entire comment on it, kind of a minute long shpielle
that he went on. I don't think it was as
you know, committed to that as maybe did. The plane
quote makes it seem here, I think he did talk
through like Nope, he doesn't fully know, and probably Joel
and b doesn't fully know at this point in time either.

(31:29):
But what was your reaction to that quote from Pompey
saying that I think Joel might know the end is near?

Speaker 3 (31:33):
And do you think there is some credence to that.

Speaker 4 (31:36):
I'm not sure why he was getting a lot of
slack for that quote. I mean, I saw a lot
of people piling on him, and I think people just
like to pile on the inquirer. Yeah, of course, yeah,
that's true. Of course he's considered the fact that the
end could be near, like, well, you're lying to yourself,
you say, otherwise, the guy as his last two seasons

(31:57):
have just been derailed by injuries, and he's got started
his season with injuries, and he probably knew going in
that based on his body and what we talked about,
where this guy has the body of a big man
but moves like a guard and those two things just
don't work together, and you're more likely to be injured
and have a shorter prime and shorter career because of that.
Of Course, he's not an idiot. Of course he's considered that.

(32:19):
Of course he knows that. So I don't know if
he's if he's like, Oh, the end definitely is near.
But I think for sure he's considered the fact that
if I can't get healthy, and he's doing everything he
possibly can to get healthy and stay healthy, if he can't,
I'm probably going to retire it and hang it up
sooner than I would have liked. So I don't know
why that was some crazy quote. I think that's pretty

(32:40):
reasonable and kind of just follows common sense that of
course he's considered the fact that the end could be near.
You know, who knows what happens this season. Maybe he
has a really healthy, great year and the Sixers have
a lot of success and then and then he's not
considering that fact anymore. But just based on last two
years how they've gone, he has to be considering.

Speaker 3 (33:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (33:00):
I didn't have a real issue with it either that
it's obviously not something that feels great to read and
hear that, But I do think when you watch it through,
like nobody knows. Joel Embiide himself does not know exactly
how his body's gonna bounce back or what level he's
gonna be able to play at this year. So I'm
sure that Joel and Meade has considered all possibilities, and
it certainly feels like I think to everyone here the
end is closer than ever before. And that's just sort

(33:21):
of the reality of life in basketball and careers or
however you do want to phrase it here, we will
get and stay tuned for this today.

Speaker 3 (33:29):
VJ.

Speaker 2 (33:29):
Edgecombe popping on the podcast P Show with Paul George,
So a little bit of a chance to hear the
rookie and the vet chop it up there.

Speaker 3 (33:37):
What's your gut feeling for Joel Embiid right now?

Speaker 2 (33:39):
If you had to predict how many games do we
see him on the floor and what is sort of
his loose stat line here? What immediately pops to mind
for you? I can see the skepticism immediately in your face.

Speaker 4 (33:49):
It's not even skepticism, it's more just why even try
to do this activity? I mean it's a useless activity.
I mean wishful thinking. He plays fifty games this season,
I mean he gets there, yeah, probably not, but like
that's wishful thinking by me. And you know, I mean
even when he's struggling, like he was really bad last

(34:11):
season for his standards when he did play. But even
when he's struggling, I mean the guy can still give
you like a twenty five and ten stat line even
if he's hobbling out there and not playing that much,
and even if his minute sload is down. I mean,
this is the first guy who's going to average a
point over a point a minute since Wilt Chamberlain. That
that one season where he got injured. It's two seasons ago.

(34:34):
So so he's that great even when he's hobbled. He's
just that dynamic of a score and unstoppable. Really, so yeah,
that's wishful thinking. I guess fifty games and twenty five
and ten stat line, but it's just an impossible exercise
to try to predict how this guy's gonna start the
season and play, because I'm now I'm skeptical that he's
even gonna start the season.

Speaker 2 (34:55):
I don't think he's going to I think that they're
going to be a little bit of the Kuhi leinerd
plan where they bring along and you know, but.

Speaker 4 (35:01):
We heard that last year, and like here's the difference
of how they have to handle this. It was such
a distraction, like the season really was over before it
started last season, and it was because of how the
year started with a ramping up, and it was just
all the distractions and of course the Paul George injury
early and everything's got too real. If he's not starting
the season, they have to number one, be transparent about it.
And then if they handled it completely differently, because obviously

(35:23):
that wasn't it leaked onto the on court product where
it was just the disaster of how they handled that
and it became a mess and a distraction for the team.

Speaker 2 (35:33):
Yeah, the lesson of last year needs to be there
on the same page from day one, because truthfully, I
do think that's exactly what went down here is I
do have on decent authority that the expectation from the
Sixers organization was Joel Embiid was ready from day one,
and Joel Embid showed up and said, I am not
ready from day one here, and there was a great
deal of frustration for him looking like himself in practice

(35:53):
for stretches and then him not playing the next day,
and that kind of thing is so just beyond the
same page. Have a game plan. I don't want to
about the ramp up process. I don't want to hear
that this is going according to plan. I do think
the organization attempted to sort of cover for him to
an extent last year, and it just all came out
looking bad.

Speaker 3 (36:09):
I think it painted everyone.

Speaker 2 (36:10):
In pretty negative life, and I am encouraged that like
did not dive to you know, dive too deep into again.
But that article coming out just speaking about like the
mentality of Joel, I do kind of feel like he's
turned a page mentally a bit on Like like whenever there.

Speaker 3 (36:25):
Is this secretiveness and you know, keeping everything under.

Speaker 2 (36:28):
Wraps, I just think it makes him directly look way
worse than it should that if you're just transparent and
a bit more open. And this applies to Boat, Joel
and the sixth organization, I think everyone gets viewed in
better light and everyone's life is a bit easier.

Speaker 4 (36:40):
Yeah, But I didn't take away that from the article
because what I could gather from it was that he
still has distrust the front office, not from obviously the
sixth organization as a whole and the previous front offices,
but even this front office he still has does distrust.
So when you're saying that they should be on the
same page day one when they enter training camp, they

(37:01):
obviously weren't last season, And how are they supposed to
be on the same page when Joel Embiid has no
trust in his front office and his front office obviously,
I'm not gonna say they distrust Joel Embiid's camp, but
they want him to be out there and be playing,
of course, because they have to. He needs to be
for them to compete for a title. So that when
you have that distrust factor, how are they supposed to

(37:21):
be on the same page for day one? I don't
see that being resolved, even though I think it's in
the organization's best interest certainly and the rest of the players.
But it's hard for me to imagine that there's some
solution there between the front office and Joel Embiid going
into this season.

Speaker 2 (37:34):
I guess I'm just encouraged and I'll shout out the
Rice Rigey Sanchez podcast. Listening to Doughtun talk through the
article and kind of how it was really interesting to
hear his perspective and one of the questions that was
what I was most curious about is basically like, why
did Joel Embiid trust you? And his answer to that
was pretty interesting to me, is like, I don't know
if I'll ever know the direct answer to that, and truthfully,

(37:55):
Like when I started this article, it was more of
the same that it was just Joel Embiid, you know,
the closed up, the scripted answers, him not diving into things.
And then for whatever reason a couple months in that
Joel decided he can trust him and opened up in
a way that he really never has to anyone there
that I'm encouraged by that maybe being a mental shift
in Joel and the fact that all of that did
come out, I do think is at least.

Speaker 4 (38:17):
I think there's two things to that, and it's a
good point. But there's two things to that. Number One,
I think his background and how they were able to
connect with his background both being from African countries. I
think that certainly, I'm sure helped with the connection. A second,
I think that writer, who did, again a phenomenal job
of that piece, didn't have a lot of the luggage

(38:39):
that a lot of other writers and NBA media carry
because no one even had heard of the guy. No
one had probably read most of his stuff in the past,
like he didn't. He probably wasn't a guy who had
written a lot or set a lot publicly that was
negative or in any light like I think people are
expecting some shift for Joel Embiid from that perspective how
he deals with the media are going to be very

(39:00):
just mistaken and wrong. I think when he gets back
to training game he's gonna have the same closed off
approach with the media. I think that was a very specific,
unique situation because that guy, of course was able to
connect with him on a personal level, but also didn't
have the baggage of a lot of the other writers
and whatever the media personnel who are there actually every
single day do. If that makes sense, Yeah, I.

Speaker 3 (39:21):
Think that's fair.

Speaker 2 (39:22):
I guess I just don't see why that's like an
advantage to be honest, like, for example, like Kyle Newback,
like Joelle likes Kyle, Like I've seen Joel iract interact
very friendly with Kyle, and like there'll be quotes that
are like very positive and Kyle, to his credit, I
think the gold standard of Sixers reporter guy that doesn't
an excellent job yet and covers him very fairly.

Speaker 3 (39:42):
That you will see criticism from Kyle away on Joel.
That is fair and I think Joel can roll with that.

Speaker 2 (39:48):
I think most athletes, to be honest, are like that
that they know they're not perfect, and they understand that
when they're not playing up the standard, there's gonna be
things written about him.

Speaker 3 (39:55):
But there's nothing that's been out of line in that department.

Speaker 2 (39:58):
If Joel had something to get off his why is
there not like the go to Kyle newback and tell
your whole story there. I don't know if the answer
to any of these Joel might and maybe this is
probably a point against me, like for him being open
or changed.

Speaker 4 (40:10):
Well well yeah, well, I mean it's also like the
ESPN factor is huge. I mean, anyone, if any other
outlet writes that story doesn't get the traction that does,
especially a local Philadelphia outlet, like like it's the ESPN story.
It helped this public image for sure. I think, yeah,
you got some sympathy, But that's that's the ESPN factor.
If it's a Philadelphia every six Ers fans reading it,
we're reading it. But it's a Philadelphia outlet, it's not

(40:32):
getting the national coverage that it received.

Speaker 3 (40:34):
Yeah, that's fair. I don't know.

Speaker 2 (40:36):
We'll see ultimately, however Joel comes back will very much
depend on the future of this sixer season. But there
is another factor this six er season that I've fully
talked myself into here plus one thousand on DraftKings Sportsbook
for VJ Edge com to win Rookie of the Year.

Speaker 3 (40:51):
I'm officially in on it.

Speaker 4 (40:52):
What do you think, Sam, I think it's gonna have
an awesome season. I mean, that's why I wanted him.
The second the Sixers got that third pick. I was like,
VGG is the guy. I think he can be an
immediate win now player for this team. And his athleticism,
his defense that will all translate from day one to
the NBA Rookie of the Year is a tough market
in that regard because he's going to be joining a
presumed contender early on, so he's not going to get

(41:15):
the shot volume that a lot of these other rookies
are going to get when they're on worse teams. So
I can't really see him winning Rookie of the Year,
at least putting up the numbers Rookie of the Year.
When you listen or you hear all these polls, and
you read all these polls and surveying anonymous gms and
scouts and all this stuff, and when you talk to
some people, they're all like VG edgecumb could easily be
the second best player in this draft behind Cooper Flagg,

(41:36):
and that's not a crazy statements. He was drafted third overall,
behind Cooper and Dylan Harper, of course, but everyone is like,
there is consensus this guy is going to be a
really good NBA player. Everyone is super high on im
and that's encouraging to see and you have to see
it materials on the court. But again, I'm all in
on vg Edgecumbe. I was from day one, and I
think he's going to be an immediate impact player for

(41:57):
the Sixers this season.

Speaker 2 (41:58):
I'm more all in on the oppertunity he's gonna receive
beyond a lot of the other options a rookie year,
like Cooper Flagg, who's the betting favorite for this and
obviously the number one pick here, He's it's gonna be
crowded there in Dallas, Man when Anthony Davis is there
and when Kyrie returns and there is.

Speaker 4 (42:13):
He's still like he's their only perimeter creator to start
the season without Kyrie. I mean, you can say D'Angelo Russell,
but like a lot's gonna run through Cooper, He's gonna
have some primary ball handling responsibilities all day.

Speaker 3 (42:23):
Yeah, that's true.

Speaker 2 (42:24):
I guess I would just say like there's expectations from
a team standpoint that I do think Anthony Davis is
still gonna be the guy as much as he's around there,
and then in San Antonio, likeding Harper, I don't know
how many shots Dan Harper is truly going to get
up with Victim Wemenyama is obviously the guy there and
Darren Fox is going to be clearly ahead of him,
And to be honest, I think Harper is a bit
more of a work in progress than we've sort of

(42:45):
made it out to be. He's a good player that
he's going to be, I think eventually like the co
star to Womenyama there and Stefan Cassel also in the mix,
let's not forget as well. So it's not like there's
the clear opportunity Ace Bailey, who is above VDA edge
coming the odds as well here plus nine fifty there.
I don't think his name, his game is tailor made
for a day one impact, and we've sort of seen
some of the ups and downs and growing pains in

(43:06):
Summer League already, so he will be able to put
up like the empty stats and have as many shots
as he wants out there in Utah. But I think
VJ is gonna have a very similar opportunity in terms
of like there's an anonymous GM saying that he could
be the second best player on the Sixers from day one.
That's incredible praise there, and obviously health does he see away.

Speaker 4 (43:23):
I think I took that as disrespects because I think
that was that being shot at the fact that Joel
Embiid and Paul George probably won't even be there, so
you don't even consider them. So I think that was
a low key shot by that guy, because then, I mean,
I don't think he'll be the second best player, but
then he really does have a chance if those two
guys are out of the picture.

Speaker 2 (43:41):
Yeah, that's sort of what I'm talking to myself intoim.
Maybe it doesn't bode well for the Sixers overall, but
the opportunity is there for VJ. Edgecum if he shows
up from day one and earns his opportunities. And I
do think he's a guy that will pop in like
the Nick Nurse system and is what Nick Nurse likes
in a player there.

Speaker 3 (43:57):
I do think it could happen. So I think I
personally will be taking a fly on VJ Edge come
for Rookie of the Year.

Speaker 4 (44:01):
Yeah, there's also guys like Trey Johnson, Jeremy Fiuce. You're
gonna get a lot of opportunity, but I'm I'll give
you my pick in a second. I was just looking
at the odds board. Hans and Yang is plus four thousand.
Now he is the what is it two for the
seventh best odds of anybody to win Rookie of the Year,
And I don't he probably wasn't even on the board
before Summer League, but he was that impressive in Summer League.

(44:22):
Did you see the video of him and Kawhi Leonard
against hilarious.

Speaker 2 (44:27):
Which, by the way, I note typically when this happens
is like a sponsorship thing or like an Adidas or
under Armoor, like there's a connection there. I don't think
there's anything. I think wanted to talk to this guy.

Speaker 4 (44:36):
I think he's I think Kawi is going to China
to do his tour. Okay, so his his believes with Adidas, yeah,
or is with New Balance. I don't know. I think
he's actually with New Balance. But so Kawi's going over
to China to do his tour, and and I think
he was talking to to Yang about that. So but
that was a pretty funny interaction. I'll give you my pick.

(44:59):
It's not who you think who you're thinking of right now.
My pick for Rookie of the Year is Egor Demon.
I was really high on him coming into the draft.
I was surprised he was taking that early. I thought
he would fall a little bit based on the shooting concerns,
but all the reports were that he shot really well
during during all his workouts for teams, and again I
think he shout around like twenty five percent from three

(45:20):
during the season for BYU. But he is the best
passer in the draft, one of the best playmakers out
of the pick and role. He plays with incredible pace, acceleration, deceleration,
all those things that we talk about. He has all
the tools to be a really good NBA player. The
only thing was his shooting touch wasn't there. And it
wasn't just three point the three point shot, it was

(45:41):
also from the free throw line. He really struggled last season,
but then he has a great summer league shooting the ball.
He shot the ball incredibly during summer league. So I
really like the pick for the Nets. I think he
can be a future star in the NBA if he
develops a shot. And what we saw is it looks
like he is developing a shot. And he's never lost confidence.
Even last year at BYU when he struck gold shooting
the Bawl. He never lost conference up until the last

(46:02):
game of their season against Alabama and the nca Tournament.
He was shooting the ball with confidence. So I think
that that matters. That's important, and I think if he
can develop a shot, he can easily win Rookie the
Year and put up some really good numbers on a
really bad NETS team.

Speaker 3 (46:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (46:16):
The only thing that I'll say is like, I don't
think he's gonna get Like when you look at VJ.
Here is like the option the Sixers have, Like the
Nets are going to rotate through their guys, and I
do think obviously he's their top pick and the guy that.

Speaker 3 (46:28):
They presumptively believe in the most here.

Speaker 2 (46:31):
But if another member, like if Nolan Triori balls out
and gets the opportunity like that can eat into his
chances as well.

Speaker 4 (46:37):
Yeah, but the minutes will be there, the shot attempts
will be there, the touches will be there.

Speaker 3 (46:42):
With Thomas and Michael Porter Junior both on the roster.

Speaker 4 (46:44):
We'll see what happens with Cam Thomas, which is an
interesting one, but I think I would be a disservice
to his development if they weren't making an effort to
get him a lot of touches and opportunities. So yeah,
I got they have five first round picks. Like Danny
Wolf is not eating into Igor, Demon's in it. There
was a reason Danny Wolf Wolf was in the twenties
and Demon was in was drafted number eight overall. So

(47:05):
I think the Nets know they're as high as him
as they should be in and will make it a
priority to get him those touches and opportunities.

Speaker 2 (47:13):
I like Nolan Try as well. I'm just I'm just
gonna say, keep an eye on him.

Speaker 4 (47:18):
I'm not sold. I'm not sold, but I gotta see more.

Speaker 2 (47:20):
Yeah, and we'll see Ben Saraff in the mix as well.
They got that They've got some guys they drafted a lot.

Speaker 4 (47:25):
Of a lot of a lot of point guards.

Speaker 3 (47:27):
Yeah, so we'll see.

Speaker 2 (47:29):
I do like cousin Nikki in the chat shown conkineple
the very impressive let's stick on Cam Thomas real quick
uh obviously a part of the restricted free agent problem.
And we're seeing this across the league with Johnathan Kaming
and the Warriors, Josh Giddy and the Bulls, Cam Thomas
and the Nets, and of course Quentin Grimes and the Sixers,

(47:49):
that there is just a non existent market for these
restricted free agents because in theory, teams should be making
offers and then it's up to the team to say,
do we believe in a player to this extent and
do we let him walk? There's just not the money
out there. And then from the negotiation standpoint, for each
of these teams trying to keep their player, you're not
bidding against anyone, so they're trying to get him on
as team friendly deals as possible for each of these guys.

(48:11):
And when you add in layers like with Jonathan KAMINGA
and Golden State, which there does not seem to be
the long term belief in each other. Here, it's just
been ugly across the board. But Cam Thomas, there is
a conversation that started on the Zach low podcast, and
I do think was a fair conversation if you listen
to the full context of it of Zach Loob basically
talking about it as saying, like how Cam Thomas is

(48:32):
viewed in NBA circles. He apparently is being offered fourteen
million by the nets. He wants to be paid like
Tyler Hero type money is one of the phrases out there.
I do think that he's a similar caliber of talent
as Tyler Hero, but it's also a strange situation. You
raise your eyebrows at that right there.

Speaker 4 (48:47):
Yeah, I do. I don't think he's close to Tyler
Hero really, yeah, man, I think Tyler Heroes developed a
ton as an on ball playmaker. I mean, is the
systnumbers of Skyrocket his potential syst numbers. He's become a
really good playmaker and with a shooting touch on the
stroke was always there and we know what he is
as a score his efficiency has got better. But Tyler

(49:07):
Hero is a playmaker, has become really good and can
Thomas just doesn't Thomas become better in that regard, but
he just doesn't have those tools as a playmaker that
Tyler Hero has. So for that reason, I don't think
they're on the same level as a player at all.

Speaker 2 (49:21):
I think they're close, Like will you give you Emmanuel quickly?
I think Thomas is better than Emmanuel Couch.

Speaker 4 (49:26):
Yeah, yeah, probably yeah so.

Speaker 3 (49:27):
Quickly's a guy making thirty two million.

Speaker 2 (49:29):
And that was another dude I've heard mentioned in sort
of like the ballpark that they're trying to get in here,
I get it.

Speaker 3 (49:35):
I also think it's a brutal spot.

Speaker 2 (49:37):
Cam Thomas is the guy that if I was in
his shoes, I'd be taking the qualifying offer that I'd
want to be an unrestricted free agent next year.

Speaker 3 (49:43):
That would be the game plan.

Speaker 2 (49:44):
But to land the plane on sort of this frame
here is he immediately punches back at Zach loo At.
One of the aggregated quotes that comes out of that,
Cam Thomas is an empty calories score. That's how he's
sort of viewed in NBA circles. Cam Thomas himself quotes
that and says, f Zach Lowe and this is crazy
and why are you saying this? What teams that are
calling empty calories are sending doubles my way right from

(50:07):
the opening tip blah blah blah.

Speaker 3 (50:09):
What's your takeaway for this entire situation and how do
you think it gets resolved?

Speaker 4 (50:14):
So I also just want to say Tyler Hill is
a much better free three point shooter too than Cam Thomas,
And some of those are opportunities that he gets, Like
a lot of times people create or Jimmy Butler throughout
those years is created for Tyler Hero and Cam Thomas
doesn't get those clean looks. But Tyler Hill is a
better three point shooter too. So look, the Cam Thomas
situation is interesting because you're worth what someone is willing

(50:36):
to pay you, right and part of that is the
timing of when you become available on the open market.
And Thomas is at is a restrictive free agent and
a really difficult time because not a lot of teams
have cap space. So if this was a few years
ago where a lot of teams have cap space and
they're just throwing them money out to guys that maybe
aren't worth those contracts, then yeah, Cam Thomas could probably

(50:57):
get emmanual quickly type money, thirty million dollars a year whatever.
There's no teams that have cap space right now, and
he doesn't move the needle for those teams. So I
think Cam Thomas is a good player. I think his
efficiency is he's gotten better, He's improved his true shooting
percentage every single year. He's definitely gotten better where he's
not like a lot of people just think he's like
some chucker and like he can score and burst. I mean,

(51:19):
he is an excellent, really fun score to watch. He
can score and burst, but he's not like just some
chucker anymore. A lot of people think that he is.
And I don't think he's necessarily like an empty stats
guy on a really bad team. I think he could
have like a six man role on a really good
team and just come in and provide that scoring first.
His defense is still really bad that has not improved

(51:39):
that much. So I think Kim Toom's is a good player,
but there's just not the cap space and market out there.
So I think you're right that would be in his
best interest to take the qualifying offer. The only problem
is the Nets could suppress your value by not playing
you that much next season because they know that you
won't be on the roster beyond next season and they'd
rather prioritize Yeah, they're yeah, they're young picks and they're

(52:01):
young guards because they draft a lot of guards. So
that's kind of the problem that Cam Thomas. The predicament
that he's in the other scenario is he accepts qualifying
offer and they could trade him by the deadline. So
maybe a contending team once a can Thomas come off
the bench and the Nets are willing to get some
value out of him, So maybe they trade him and
he goes to a good team. It's just a tough
situation that he's in. So I get why he's lashing

(52:23):
out and getting upset and frustrated because he thinks he
deserves more money and if it was a different free
agent class, he might actually get that money. But so, yeah,
I get it, but I do think Zach low I mean,
I know Zach Loow is right. Anything he says is
usually right. But based on the sentiment that around the
league is that this guy isn't looked at as some
valuable asset or commodity. He's looked at more as a

(52:45):
great score probably doesn't contribute to winning that much.

Speaker 2 (52:48):
Yeah, and by the way, when you say great scorer,
like I think probably one of the fifteen best scorers
in the league, Like, that's how talented of a.

Speaker 3 (52:55):
Scorer he is.

Speaker 2 (52:55):
Yeah, there's clear holes in other parts of his game.
There's no doubt about it. He's not a perfect player.
And I will also note when immaturity is sort of
a bit of a concern with him. Maybe lashing out
at Zach Low on the Internet isn't the best way
to improve your value here, so maybe take a step
back from that one and don't hit send next time.

Speaker 3 (53:12):
But nonetheless, I don't think it's anything.

Speaker 4 (53:14):
Multiple tweets, multiple tweets.

Speaker 2 (53:15):
Yeah, yeah, I don't think it's anything that will hurt
him to a major extent, but it certainly does not
help the cause therewith cam So I kind of think
we're seeing the tipping point and restrict free agency as
a whole. It feels like this just is not working,
and I do wonder if like we're heading down the
pathway of this is sort of being eliminated as a concept.

Speaker 4 (53:33):
Restrict your free agency. Yeah, I think you're right. I mean,
it's just weird, and I haven't heard a single reasonable
explanation for why these guys haven't been signed. We're entering August,
like Quentin Grime still isn't inside. The Jonathan Minga situation
is holding up everything the Warriors are doing, because like
a couple of months ago, I didn't think there was
any way that Jonathan Kaminga was going to be back
in Golden Steep and now I'm kind of questioning where

(53:55):
you will actually go. And it seems like that relationship
will be hard to repair between Johnathan and the Warriors staff,
which doesn't trust them in big moments. And he's kind
of a repeat player of a Jimmy Butler, and we
saw they couldn't be on the floor together during the
playoffs and throughout the end of the regular season. The
only time john to kaminga gott minutes in the playoffs
was when Jimmy Butler was out, and of course he produced,
but again, you don't want that many non shoes on

(54:16):
the floor when those two guys are with Draymond Green.
So I don't know exactly how that situation is gonna
play out. But that's kind of the hold up with
the Al Horford and danthy Melton, two guys who everyone
just assumes are going to the Golden State Warriors but
haven't signed because the Warriors are still trying to figure
out what's going on with the Jonathan Minga situation and
that restricted free age market. So I think you're right
that it's not really going to be a thing that
we see moving forward, because because I haven't really heard

(54:39):
a decent explanation as to why these guys are still
held up and they haven't been signed. As we approach
August and most teams kind of have the roster situation
figured out.

Speaker 2 (54:49):
Well, I think it's exactly just the concept here of
like obviously teams, if another team must to make an offer,
the team has the right to match that. It's like
the whole basis of restricted free agency there there isn't
really cap space out there for teams be making offers
in general.

Speaker 4 (55:03):
So what point does that deadline come where there's no offer?
I remember it as there's always a deadline, So a
team is a can make an offer by a certain deadline.
If the team doesn't make it, then the team that
owns the rights can just pay them whatever.

Speaker 2 (55:18):
My understanding as far as like matching an offer, you're
saying twenty four hours or forty eight hours.

Speaker 4 (55:23):
No, no, no, I'm saying for a team to make
an official offer because it's obviously they're going to at
some point they're gonna sign with eighteen. So is there
a deadline where a team has an other team, like
let's take the six ors Quin grime situation. Is there
a deadline where different another team has to make an
offer and by a certain point, you know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (55:42):
I don't think so, to be honest, I think it's
just like free agency, Like theoretically this could go on forever,
you can sign whenever. I don't think we've ever seen
it drag out this way, so there may be that
I'm unaware.

Speaker 4 (55:52):
I just assume there was a deadline where it's all right,
the situation should be figured out. I mean, yeah, once
you answer September and training camp comes, it's like what's
going on?

Speaker 2 (56:00):
But what I think, like the real hold up here
is because of that process where there's really not these
offers coming in then like like grind Quinn Grimes started
out saying I want twenty five million, and the Sixers
are like, well no, like nobody's paying you that, Like
we're not paying you that, and like like theoretically the
Sixers could be sitting here right now saying we'll pay
you three million dollars next year, we'll pay you a
veteran's minimum and if there's nobody bidding against them, like

(56:23):
who's stopping that? And the qualifying offer is eight point
seven for Quinn Grimes. But that wouldn't actually happen. It
would be that number at worst there. But the point
being here is they're bidding against no one. So the
Quentin Grimes camp, and I think all restricted free agent
camps are basically trying to generate some sort of interest
out of nowhere to drive up their value. But why
would a team do that if you don't have an
actual pathway to attaining player.

Speaker 3 (56:45):
All you're doing is helping out the player's value.

Speaker 2 (56:47):
You don't actually have a route to pursuing them there,
So it just feels like like they're bidding. The teams
that have possession of the restricted free agent are bidding
against no one, and those players camps are trying desperately
to move that market up, but there's no way to
truly do that.

Speaker 4 (57:02):
Yeah, I'm with you. I just I'm curious that when
it actually gets resolved, if nobody's actually bidding against the team,
like the Sixers for Quent Grimes, when does it actually
get resolved and when can they actually just when will
they just sign and just give up? I guess I
guess eventually a camp and to end up the player
will give up and just go to that team, and like,
all right, let's sign this thing, which probably will happen
soon because you want this resolved by the time September

(57:25):
comes around. But yeah, it's it's just a weird situation.
I'm with you. I think the restricter free agency as
a concept is probably dying.

Speaker 2 (57:32):
Yeah, And I do think there will probably be a
bit of a domino effect when these these these four
names in particular are kind of all are connected or
happen within the same general stretch of each other.

Speaker 3 (57:41):
But who knows.

Speaker 2 (57:42):
There certainly could be I think there's more bad blood
in the camp Thomas and Job and Kuminga's situation than
is the case with Quentin Grimes.

Speaker 4 (57:49):
And yeah, for sure, I think I think there's no
question Quin Grimes will be back in Philadelphia. The other
ones are a little little dicey. John Gaming is really
interesting to me because like what other team is offering
him what? And like where would he go because there's
there's not a lot of like money and situational spots
for him that would make out for like, I don't
know that doesn't necessarily need to be on a contender,

(58:10):
but it's really interesting where he'll end up.

Speaker 2 (58:12):
Even Josh Getty's really strange to me too, It's like,
I don't know, but what we'll see how that's ultimately resolved.
I know you got a couple of quick hitters you
want to hit at the end here? Do you want
to throw frame these out?

Speaker 4 (58:22):
Yeah? I mean just dog days of summer when we
spent an hour on the NBA, we're going to talk football.
We promise we're going to talk football moving forward. Next
week we'll do some division picks, a lot of Eagles stuff.
I mean, the thing with the Eagles right now is
so they're boring, Like they're boring, and that's the biggest
compiment you could give them, Like there's nothing to talk
about from training camp. Yeah, but I guess the safety

(58:42):
position battle like Cooper.

Speaker 3 (58:45):
George Davis lost weight, you know.

Speaker 4 (58:47):
Yep, ring ringo, how's he? How's he doing a quarterback?
Cornerback alongside Quinia Mitchell.

Speaker 3 (58:53):
And Jalen Herd. Stats coming out?

Speaker 4 (58:55):
Yeah. Something that I'm a little concerned about we can
talk about the later time is the Cam Jurgen's back
thing is something I don't think it's getting near enough attention.
He ended last season with a back injury, and he's
now starting this season with a back injury, and that's
not something to mess around with, especially as an offensive lineman,
especially as a center. So I think that's something that

(59:15):
not getting any attention really, even though he's been listed
on the injury port with a back like almost every
single day of training camp. We can talk about that
later though. There's just nothing to talk about because they're boring.
There's no like, oh, what's the relationship between Nick Sirianni
and Jone Hurts? What this Jalen hurts the guy like, well, yeah,
there's nothing to talk about. So that's the biggest compliment
for them is that they're boring. They're boring because they're
that good and then they're that well function of an organization.

(59:37):
But on that note, there's been a lot of things
heating up about the Eagles future of their stadium, a
Lincoln Financial Fields future. Are you in favor of a dome,
which we all believe is coming suit.

Speaker 2 (59:52):
I'm not in favor of the dome, and you can
sort of twist my arm and get me to a
retractable roof and that's probably what I think the outcome
will get. But ultimate, I think football is made to
be played outdoors, man, and I do think that there's
something special. I do think that there is something too.
You should be in the cold, you should be feeling
the temperature out here, putting your jackets on, seeing your
breath in the stands. That to me is football, and

(01:00:14):
I kind of like that they've kept it open at
the link right here. We obviously the snow game, like
we have a ton of memories of the snowball Lashan
McCoy cutting up the field in the playoffs last year
against the Rams sy in that type of matchup, I
like that that the elements provide an element to the
game or make an impact there, and I do think
it should remain that way. So I don't think I'm
fighting a winning battle here, but I would prefer for

(01:00:35):
the Eagles Stadium to remain outdoors.

Speaker 4 (01:00:37):
I'm really torn because I'm with you. I think football
should be played outside, and they would have it probably
a retractable roof where you know, in September and when
it's nice out that the roof would be open and
it would be feel like an outdoor vibe. But snow
football is as awesome as it gets, especially in the playoffs.

(01:00:58):
I mean that playoff game against the Rams was one
who was there any Eagles fan that was like probably
the highlight. I mean, obviously, of course the super Bowl
was the highlight, but just in terms of a moment
and a game and an atmosphere for being at the
Link in Philadelphia, the tailgate scene before all of it, Like,
you don't get that unless you're playing outside football in

(01:01:19):
January and in the playoff football. So I'm like, completely,
I would love if there was actually a retractable roof
that they even put they even opened up when it
was snowing out and just let them play football no
matter what the football games, the Eagles games had to
be played with the roof open, because that's awesome. I mean,
anyone who's at that game will tell you that was
one of the coolest experiences. Forget sports experiences, forget Eagles experiences,

(01:01:43):
coolest experiences at in the spheres of their entire life.
So I'm with you, But I also understand the flip side.
So I'm really torn on it because I do think
would be awesome if if the Philadelphia get Final fours,
if Super Bowls were played in Philadelphia, concerts in the winter,
all these things that come with if you have a
dome and a roof that can actually close. So I

(01:02:04):
think that there would be a lot of value for
Philadelphia there, and that would be cool if we could
go to a Final four in Philadelphia, So get I
get it from both perspectives. I'm pretty torn on it,
but I do think a dome is probably probably coming
and probably in the future, and in Jeffrey Lorie's best interest.

Speaker 2 (01:02:19):
Yeah, for all those same reasons that you just ended with,
I do think it's going to happen. I don't think
I'm fighting a winning batal sticking up for the integrity
of playing football outside here, but I think business is
what makes things happen here, and there's obviously a lot
more in favor of having more options than you know,
being able to have the roof over the head there.
So yeah, that is how ultimately I think it does
play out, is that there will be some sort of

(01:02:40):
dome built in Philadelphia, even if I.

Speaker 3 (01:02:41):
Don't love it.

Speaker 4 (01:02:43):
Last one before we wrap up, it's trade deadline week,
and it's a big one for the Phillies, probably the
biggest trade deadline we've seen a long time. Yeah, what
are you expecting? What do you think is going to happen?
By Thursday? Whatever time the trade deadline.

Speaker 2 (01:02:55):
Closes, Yeah, six pm Eastern will be the official drop
dead time there. And I'll say this, I wrote an
article over for Crossing broad about why I think this
is the most important deadline. This deadline will define Dave
Debrowski's reign in Philadelphia.

Speaker 3 (01:03:08):
Here.

Speaker 2 (01:03:09):
You have to do everything possible to give yourself a chance,
and the window is beginning to shut on this current core.

Speaker 3 (01:03:14):
If I was pulling the strings, Eugenio.

Speaker 2 (01:03:16):
Suarez would be on this Phillies roster following starting Friday here.
I do think the thirty eight home runs that he's
already matched this year, adding another power back into that
lineup is something that is desperately needed. My honest prediction,
I think Luise Robert Jr. Is coming to Philadelphia here.
That feels like more of a Debrowski move to me
that he does love digging in the bargain bin. This
is a guy who a year and a half ago

(01:03:37):
was looked at as one of the best outfielders in
all of baseball, was a true five tool type of
prep player, delivering at a crazy production, and has just
absolutely fallen off a cliff. I do think there is
some truth to when you change locations and change situations
that it can bring out more in a player. I
think that's a bigger risk than I would honestly be
willing to take on at this point. But my prediction
is that Luis Robert will be in a Phillies Jersey

(01:03:58):
all right.

Speaker 4 (01:03:58):
Well, anything about O'Neil Cruz.

Speaker 2 (01:04:00):
He's very similar to Luis Robert, I feel, and that
they fall in like the theoretical baseball player category. I'm
not in on Cruise. If it all comes together, he's
gonna be excellent. He'd be like Ellie de la Cruz
junior type of player here. I just don't fully see it,
and there's too much that another one that I think
it would be too big of a risk in my mind.

Speaker 4 (01:04:20):
What about a bullpen arm? So are you are you
more of the of the idea that they're gonna if
you had to, if you had to think it was
one or the other? Are you more of the thought
process that will be a bullpen arm or a hitter
who can play center field all that type of stuff.

Speaker 3 (01:04:34):
I think it has to be both that you have
to attack both. There.

Speaker 2 (01:04:37):
The bullpen needs to be upgraded, like it's just straight
up not good enough right here, and I get there
piecing things together that maybe Max Lazar is figuring out
Ryan Kirkring is gonna be fine. Strom's gonna be fine,
but you gotta add another arm here. I don't think
it's gonna be nearly as notable a name as we're
hoping for. Emmanuel class A is a guy who pops
to me that I would love to see an affiliate uniform.
But he's had a couple of struggles lately and didn't
pitch well and last year's postseason either, So I this

(01:05:00):
is another situation where I think Dobrowski will sort of
dig through the rental arms, which I disagree with, don't love,
but is how I see things playing out.

Speaker 4 (01:05:07):
Yep, yep, seems like it'll head in that direction. Nice
two to one series win over the Yankees always nice.
We can go take over Yankee Stadium. One Philly fan
in particular really took over Yankee Stadium. But it is
always always good to get a series win over the Yankees.
And so yeah, I guess I guess that's talking baseball.

Speaker 2 (01:05:26):
Yeah, absolutely, So we cover it all. Got a little football,
got a little baseball, and a lot of basketball in
today so we're gonna be diving deeper into the football
waters as things move forward. Next week, we're going to
be back in action with a little bit more pressing
got wrapped up in his NBA talk today, but that's
what we do, so no worries about that there. Appreciate
each to know when you guys for tuning into this.
If you have not ready, make sure you're subscribing wherever

(01:05:46):
you are listening. If it is on the Fox Sports
the game that our YouTube page, if it is on
any of our socials drop as a follow, make sure
to keep it locked in the dial to what's coming
next Right here on Fox Sports A game It Me
and Sam.

Speaker 3 (01:05:55):
We back talk with you next week.

Speaker 1 (01:05:57):
The Picks and Roll podcast can be found on Fox
p HL, Gambler dot com. If you can wager on it,
we're talking about it. It's the Gambler