Dave Dalton Thomas, Author of "Picnic Willie Nelson's Fourth of July Tradition"

I love this book! Dave Dalton Thomas has written a book about the history of Willie's 4th of July picnic called "Picnic Willie Nelson's Fourth of July Tradition." Great book and Dave gives us the history and stories that you have never heard. Pick up the book and listen now as Dave joins Bob at the Broken Spoke.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Hey, it's Bob Pickett. Weare on our way to the legendary Broken
Spoke. Come on, let's getout the truck and head inside. And
damn you're proud of it. Comeon, it's going side. Get ready

(00:22):
for another tale from the Broken Spoke. Welcome back to the world famous Broken
Spoke. On Bob Pickett. MontyWarden is, well, he's absent today,
so it's gonna be me solo.I hope you're okay with that,
but not well, not really solo, because I'm talking to Dave Dalton Thomas.
Dave Dalton Thomas has just published agreat book. It's called Picnic Willie
Nelson's Fourth of July Tradition. Nowthis has got to the labor of love.

(00:45):
Dave. Absolutely, it's well,it took two years to write,
but I had researched for twenty yearsbefore that. I was going to ask
you how long it took two yearsto write? Yes, and you had
a lot of resources to talk topeople to a right. Absolutely. I
interviewed one hundred and seventeen different peoplefor this book, some of them multiple

(01:06):
times. Yeah. Yeah, sotwenty years of research. When did you
know that you wanted to write abook about the picnic. The picnic's been
going on for close to fifty yearsnow. Yeah. I had started going
to the picnic in nineteen ninety fiveas a young man in Lukenbach, and
I just became and I could tellthe story behind that. But the short

(01:26):
version is that, Oh, giveme the long version, man, it's
a podcast. We can give thelong version on this. So nineteen ninety
five Willie's Picnic in Lukenbach is that. The only is that the first time
that Whalen Jennings had been there.Actually ninety six was the first time Whalen
had been there, but it wasthe spring of ninety five and Willie's people

(01:48):
were at Lukenbach making the deal withthe Lukenbach management to have the picnic there
that year. It was kind ofa comeback. It hadn't really been a
big picnic since nineteen nine and whenthey wrapped everything up, they said,
well, let's get some publicity forthis. And one of the people involved
said, well, we got areporter right there at the bar. What

(02:10):
were you doing at the bar,just in joy? I was drinking.
Okay, well that makes sense ata bar, but were you just there?
I was having fun, in Lukeand Back. I was a young
man. I worked for the SanAngelo Standard Times and I had Mondays and
Tuesdays off. And what do youdo in San Angelo if you're a young
honky talk man on a Monday offor Tuesday off. We only understand I'm
originally from Sweetwater. You head tothe nearest bar that you can find it,

(02:34):
which isn't in tom Green County.Yeah. I started cruising the back
roads and I found Luke and Bachand I started hanging out there, learning
what I didn't know from the oldtimers, right, and just trying to
get my head around this nineteen seventies, you know, music scene that I
was so enamored with. And Ijust happened to be there that day.

(02:54):
Nobody tipped me off or anything,and I was just there at the bar
drinking beer. Willis people, youknow, Luke and Bok that called me
in to where they were having thismeeting, and they said, you know,
do you want to get this storyout? And I said, heck
yeah, even though I really didn'tknow what the picnic was. Okay,
when you say Willy's people, anynames that you can drop. It was

(03:15):
Larry Trader and Tim O'Connor to thegreatest people right there. Absolutely. Tim
O'Connor was just amazing. It seemslike he was involved in it well.
A lot of the last picnics fromthe nineties on. In fact, the
first Willi picnic I went to wasone at Zilker Park and that was eighty
nine or ninety one was at nineteenninety nineteen ninety and that was big because

(03:37):
that's when you actually had the highwaymenthere. You had Johnny Cash, Chris
Christofferson, of course Whalen and Willieand it was just an amazing night.
So that was really the last bigsuccessful picnic until you guys had it in
Luke and Buck. Yeah, therewas a small picnic at the backyard.
It was originally in ninety three.I was here for that. It was

(03:57):
Gees and Slaw pick. It wasbuilder as the Gear and Slaw's picnic.
Sam and Sunder used to play manytimes right here with the broken spoke.
But you know, that was alarge scale event. They didn't really have
a large scale event between ninety andninety five, and the big reason for
that was Willy's Irs troubles. That'swhat it was. Yes, that's what
it was you had to make somemoney and the picnic couldn't be counted on

(04:19):
to break even. Well, wasthe picnic in Lukenbach in ninety five was
that successful? Did it make somemoney? Absolutely? It was kind of
a rebirth of the event. Itwas meant to be smaller scale because of
the limitations of luken Bocke. Itcould only hold den to twelve thousand people.
But they tried to squeeze in morepeople, didn't they They squeezed in
as many as they could, butabout that many was just a sweet spot.

(04:43):
There's a lot of new generation Xfans there, including myself, a
lot of people that were had grownup listening to Willi and Whalen, but
now we're interested in Robert ro' keeneand folks like that. So you just
called yourself a gi rich X folks. That was your first exposure to Willie
Nelson, your first exposure of thepicnic. What did you think about that?

(05:06):
Because back then Luke and Bach,I mean, it was just out
there in the pasture and stuff,wasn't it. Absolutely, it really made
a big impression on me to Ihad never been to a music festival before.
I think this was during that timewhen you know, you had rock
and roll music festivals, but thereweren't a great deal of country music festivals

(05:29):
or Americana music festivals. And Ireally hadn't been to one, but it
definitely made an impression on me.Old timers would tell me, you know,
oh, it's not what it usedto be, but it sure seemed
like something to me. Well,when they say as it used to be,
they're talking about a lot of drugs, a lot of alcohol, and
also some guns. That's possible,oh cause you never knew it was going
to happen. Anything happened like thatwhen it was held in Luke and Bach.

(05:53):
No. Actually, the Gillespie Countylaw enforcement and I interviewed the former
Gillespie County for my book. Theytook their security very seriously. It is
an old German community and they werefor law and order, and yeah,
Sheriff Young, Milton Young recounted tome that when he got Willy's people and

(06:15):
producers and every body in place,he told them that, you know,
he was going to rest anybody thathe saw with a joint, whether it
was Willy or not. But hedidn't care what happened on the bus.
The bus was off limits as faras Milton Young Sheriff Young was concerned that
was not his place to go.So is that where you first got the

(06:35):
idea to write the book about thehistory for the picnic? After attending that
show and Luke and Bach. Whatreally was it that said, Hey,
I need somebody these to chronicle thisand put it down. I became a
fan after attending that first picnic andLukenbach and covering it for the Standard Times.
And I continued to cover it aspeople would let me, and I

(06:56):
collected some items, some posters andpasses and and kind of kept up with
the history as best I could.But the big moment came in two thousand
and seven when Willie Nelson had hispicnic out of state in Washington State at
the Gorge Amphitheater. Oh a beautifulplace, and people went crazy. Everybody's
oh my god, it's the firsttime outside of Texas. And Texas Monthly

(07:20):
wrote a little thing at the frontof the magazine the next month saying,
everybody, relax, it's not thefirst time out of Texas. Right.
In fact, you know it wasin New Jersey in nineteen eighty three.
Hey, it looks like it's beback in New Jersey best share this year,
and I was that drove me crazybecause I didn't know about New Jersey.

(07:41):
And I figured, if I've beenstudying the history of this a little
bit and don't know about New Jersey, then what else doing on it don't
I know about? And at thatpoint, you know, the copy editor
ined me, which was my careerin newspapers, just decided, I just
got fed up with the inaccuracies andyou know, the infusion over what happened

(08:01):
when right, and I decided thatI was going to write a definitive timeline
based on first person sources, andthat became the genesis of the book.
It's a great book, it reallyis. Again it's called Picnic Willie Nelson's
fourth July tradition. You went back, you talked to a lot of people.
I guess this year is going tobe the fifty first picnic or fifty

(08:22):
first anniversary, because a picnic hasnot been held consecutively every year. No,
some years they've had multiple events inthe same year centered around July fourth,
but some years it hasn't been heldat all. And there was a
pretty good stretch in eighty eight andeighty nine, there wasn't a picnic.
In ninety one and ninety two therewasn't a picnic because of Willie's irs troubles

(08:46):
back during COVID. It was justa virtual picnic. Yeah, they had
a virtual picnic in twenty twenty andthen they skipped twenty twenty one. Hey,
do you think the picnics now?You mentioned that they did make money
in Luke and Bach, but talkingto various people people, they didn't make
a lot of money on any ofthe picnics. It was just mainly a

(09:07):
gathering of people to get together.That's why it started with music, and
it just spread from there and thenit kind of got a little bit out
of control too, didn't it.Yeah. Absolutely, Willy wanted to do
it in seventy three. He wasinspired by the Dripping Springs reunion the year
before, which was not a reallyorganized event, but he was on the

(09:28):
lineup. It was in March ofnineteen seventy two, and he was excited
about that idea and he started doingit. And it was so chaotically mismanaged
that if they made money, itdisappeared along the way. How was it
mismanager? Willy was tied in itwas tied into all sorts of outlaws connected

(09:52):
to Willy, including Larry Trader,and who knows where all the money that
was collected went, but part ofhis had a good time. Everybody had
a good time. Yes, Butlike I was just going over the nineteen
seventy three chapter this morning, andthey're talking about how they had a little
bit of fencing and Winnebago served asa ticket office and the crowds just came

(10:16):
pouring in, and even they camein at such a pace that morning that
there couldn't find anybody give their moneyto or give their ticket to, and
so they just came on in.And that happened to you throughout the first
four picnics. Is that eventually theidea of taking money for tickets kind of

(10:37):
fell by the wayside because they couldn'tcapture everybody streaming in. It was just
that many people. Let's talk abouthow it started and the role that the
Armadillo World Headquarters and Eddie Wilson laidin it. You mentioned that in your
book, Yes, Willie's people kindof dreamed up the picnic, the promoters

(11:01):
that he had working with him,and there's some disagreement in talking with those
who are still alive, You're gonnaget a different version from depending on who
you talk, right, you knowthose who are still alive, and they's
like, oh, we had itun control. But Eddie Wilson told me
that he was looking at the wholething and he thought, this is gonna

(11:24):
this. They're not selling enough tickets. It's is not going to go over
very well. They don't They're notorganized enough to pull this off. And
he volunteered that he was friends withWilly at the time, and he volunteered
to bring in the Armadillo crew tohelp pull this off. And they did
it was it was still kind ofa last minute deal. I mean,

(11:48):
Willie didn't even suggest to Tim O'Connorthat they do the picnic until late May
early June, so you can imaginehow fast they had to make this happen
on us back then. Yeah,Tim was in. That's before Tim actually
got here, right. I dobelieve Tim did the seventy four picnic in
college station. He produced that whenthey burned down, it was a great

(12:11):
big bonfire that burned Robert o'keane's car. Yes, but that's a story in
the book. That's why you've gotto get the book absolutely, and one
thing nobody asked I did ask Roberto' keene the question I didn't ever see
anybody ask, because how did youget home that day? Yeah? And
he said, oh, I hitchhiked, which apparently was the thing you could

(12:31):
do back in nineteen seventy four andfeel pretty safe in doing it right there.
So getting back to the to EddieWilson and the Armadillo they were involved
in what year that was nineteen seventythree, That was the inaugural year of
the Picnic, the official first startof the picnic, official first start,
and the Armadula crew took charge ofpreparing the site, building the stage.

(12:56):
They did some counter It brought inmore of a counter culture crowd than you
know what Willy's people were getting,same time of crowd you'd see at the
Armadillo actionally Yeah really yeah, we'reas Willi's people were advertising on traditional country
radio. Willie Leon Russell was apart of the first Picnic and he was
a big rock star at the time, and that helped bring in a lot

(13:22):
of different folks that weren't going tobe there otherwise. And Leon of course
had played at the Armadillo. Howmany picnics have you attended. I've attended
everyone in Texas except for twenty twentytwo when I had COVID. My kids
brought COVID back from Colorado a coupleof days before the picnic, and I

(13:43):
was pretty upset by that. Isthat the one at Q two Stadium?
That was the first one Q Stadium? Yes, so I've lost count of
how many picnics I've been to,but it's more than twenty. I've been
to a bunch. First one thatI really remember was nineteen ninety at Zilker
Park, And of course I've beenlucky enough to be the MC at the

(14:05):
last two at Q two statement.In fact, you mentioned me in the
book, which I love. It'son page two thirty three talking about the
MC that asked the crowd how manypeople have been here before? I was
the MC. That's me. Soin the second edition we'll get your name
in there. No, no,I know you've talked a lot of people
about this. Let's talk about thelate great Tim O'Connor. What an amazing

(14:28):
man, and he helped a lotwith his recollections of the past picnics and
helped you with a book a lot. Absolutely, I was. I had
such a timeline for creating the bookthat if I couldn't get somebody that I
wanted to get while I was researchingthat chapter, I usually just moved on
after a couple of tries. ButTim O'Connor was had his fingerprints on almost

(14:52):
every chapter. Yeah, And Ikept trying and trying to get him,
and I had friends who'd given mehis number and stuff. And what I
didn't realize is, you know,at the time, was that he was
dying of cancer. There was balingcancer. And but I caught him during
a good moment and we talked onthe phone, and he realized that I
was serious about this, and heinvited me to come out and visit with
him. And after that he justloved the idea of having the Picnic book

(15:16):
and was he helped in every wayhe could through his last days. And
I'm very grateful for his help becausehe was probably the most important person I
could have talked to. Yeah.Well, I really think that he was
the most important person because he knewexactly what was happening. He was behind
the scenes and and he knew everythingabout it. Again, what a great

(15:37):
man, Uh, Tim O'Connor withthe Austin Music Hall on various other menu
you know, backyard, other venues. Speaking of the backyard, the other
picnic that I attended was going tobe held at the New Backyard and did
that every time a picnic would comearound there and say this is the permanent
home for the picnic. That neverhappened because it moved around a lot.

(16:00):
Why is that that? Willie wasdefinitely fond of telling reporters this is the
new permanent home for the picnic andsay this is the last picnic. That's
yes. He's also said that Ithink early on where the picnic was pretty
wild and chaotic. They were basicallyon the run from their neighboring people.

(16:23):
Throughout the seventies and even into theeighties, other so called permanent homes like
Carl's Corner, Well, that picniclost a lot of money. Yeah,
the New Backyard was not ready tohost the picnic designed right. They tried
to model a bit like the oldArmy Little World headquarters with a beer garden

(16:45):
and everything, and it just justwasn't ready. It was not ready to
host that picnic. And they hada lot of trouble, a lot of
people were unhappy. The two thousandand three side at Two Rivers Canyon Ampathea.
Oh yeah, that was that wasthere for that. That was The
traffic was terrible. We had rain, but what a lineup. I mean,

(17:06):
Neil Young, you had the newversion of the Grateful Dead. That
was an incredible lineup and in anincredible two days if you could get there.
And the second day wasn't bad,but by then the damage was done
between the traffic and then landowners losingmoney and they eventually lost the sight,

(17:27):
so it did not become further developedto do something about that picnic. Yeah,
talking about all the troubles and stuffthat I didn't even remember, but
I just remember it being a mudfest. The second day, waking up and
Bob Cole who worked for Cavid backthen, and I seeing and Bob the
rain's pouring down and Bob walks outto the stage, grabs some micros.

(17:48):
Hey, welcome to the Willie NelsonFirst Annual. What T shirt contest?
I mean, that's how bad therain was and it was crazy, but
you know, the crowd, theydidn't mind the rain or the mud because
that's part of the Willy Nelson picnicoutside. When you have a challenging picnic,
whether it's rainy or whether it's superhot, because it's always hot,

(18:10):
uh it's it can be unpleasant atthe time, but in retrospect it makes
a better story. And uh my, one of my favorite picnics was the
ninety six picnic in Lukenbach. Heyawas super hot that day. Who was
day? But that was the yearthat Willie Nelson or Waylan Jennings was there
for the first time, and ofcourse Willy was there at Robert ro Kane

(18:34):
was following up his ninety five explosionat the picnic Willy had. There'd been
a punk rock tribute album to Williecalled Twisted Willy, and they actually brought
some of those folks out to thepicnic, which is always interesting when if
they got Willie's blessing, then thecrowd was all for it. And time

(18:59):
and again, it's like the firstcouple of times we saw folk yuke at
the picnics, Amy Nelson and KathyGuthrie, I believe, and they're out
there with those angelic voices, singing, singing the dirtiest songs they can think
of, and you see the expressionof the crowd who doesn't realize who the

(19:21):
performers are, and then you know, Willie will come out on stage and
sing along with them. They're like, oh, this is great. You
know, if you've got Willie's blessing, you're doing good. You think that
the tone of the picnic change littlebit when it moved from the pastures to
the stadiums, even at Dakota andeven at Fort Worth. I did have
a lot of people tell me thatthat, you know, it's not the

(19:44):
same and the picnic has to evolvealong with more time commercial it does it
definitely when these full time concert promoterssuch as C three percent or I'm blanking
on the names of the promoters,no, I understanding promoters. But when

(20:08):
the full time promoters took it overthe professional people rather than it being put
on by Willie's people, it definitelylost a little something in the feel of
it. But the truth is,I mean, you can't do those chaotic
picnics today. There'd be lawsuits.People would be really upset. I mean,
there was a little discomfort at thetwenty ten picnic at the New Backyard

(20:30):
and people wrote letters to the editorby the hundreds talking about how terrible it
was, so you know it triedto do something like nineteen seventy three.
Now you do it. You couldn'tdo it. But then again, what
weatherwise, what do you expect inJuly in Texas? Anyway, You're going
to have the heat, You're gonnahave the problems, You're going to have

(20:51):
traffic as more people. What wasthe most successful Willie Nelson picnic of the
past fifty in your opinion, youthink attendance wise. Attendance wise, well,
that definitely leads no matter different interpretations, because attendants wise, the biggest
one was the nineteen seventy six picnicin Gonzales, But that was also the

(21:14):
most infamous picnic. Why there wasall sorts of crime that happened there at
that picnic. There were injuries,there were stabbings, there were rapes.
One man drowned in the stock pond. It's the only death to happen at
the picnic in the last fifty years, which, considering the craziness of some
of the early ones, is prettyastounding. They didn't have sanitation facilities for

(21:41):
that crowd of eighty thousand, eightythousand people. It was wild and the
community fought to stop the picnic,but the county commissioners ultimately allowed it.
The people fighting to stopped the picnicin Gonzales in seventy six called themselves the

(22:03):
Citizens for Law, Order and Decency. So it's like a sitcom on TV
almost, Yes, So their nicknamewas the Clods, which they embraced rather
unironically. What that's a pretty crazystory right there from Gonzales. What are
some of the other crazy stories thatyou heard about the picnic throughout the years?

(22:27):
And the picnic at the purden Alliscountry Clubs in nineteen seventy nine.
In nineteen eighty they, of course, Willie had purchased the Purdenallis country Club
and the picnic itself was on thegolf course where the fans were at the
golf course looking up at the theI believe it was the ninth hole or

(22:49):
something, the ninth green where thestage was. And then behind the stage
area was the country club itself withits swimming pool and the condos back there.
And so Willie had all sorts ofroom for all sorts of VIPs at
this country club. And apparently thehedonism back there was was pretty substantial.

(23:11):
Between the basically the drugs and thewomen a lot of VIPs look back on
the nineteen seventy nine and nineteen eightyPicnics very fondly. I bet they do,
so. I actually have tickets stuffs. In the nineteen seventy nine picnic,
I was in Radio and Sweetwater andhad got a pair of tickets,

(23:33):
but I couldn't go because at thattime there was a gas shortage. Yes,
my parents, first of all,they aren't gon to let an eighteen
year old kid drive all the wayto Austin during a gas shortage and attendant
Willie Picnic. But we'll just kindof keep that between ourselves a weekend,
Okay. Any act that has playedthe Picnic more than anyone else besides Willie,
According to my research, I've gotRay Willy Hubbard, and of course,

(23:57):
being an old copy editor, Idid make the list of the Yeah,
well, Ray Wiley hasn't been thelast two that we know of it.
It's true, And at some point, if Willie keeps going asleep at
the wheel, I was going tobring up Ray and to sleep at the
whill because they've played nearly everyone.Right, Yes, they're like one behind
Ray Wyllie, so they may catchthem. If Ray Willie continues to miss

(24:17):
him and to sleep at the wheelmakes the next couple. So I tell
you an interesting story. Like Isaid, I've been lucky enough to be
the MC the past two picnics herein Austin at Q two Stadium, standing
with Ray Benson last year last July, watching Willie out there and it's just
Willie and Mickey of the original family. And Ray turned to me says,

(24:40):
Bobby goes, do you realize howold we are now? Because we're seeing
what's left of the original Willie Nelsonand family? And that's true, that's
true. Absolutely, it's a sad, sad occasion. But but you know,
I'll be at Willie's picnics as longas he holds them. I just
wish that he wasn't holding it inNew Jersey. Absolutely. Everybody says Philadelphia,

(25:03):
but it's actually just outside of Philadelphiain New Jersey. And we know
the reason is because of the Texasheat. Yeah, it's been hot the
past couple of years at Q twoStadium, But it's a Texas tradition.
Do you wish he was gonna beheld in Texas this year? Oh?
Absolutely, I think it should alwaysbe held in Texas personally, I think
it should always be in Texas,and it should always have someone with three
names. That's the way I kindof look at those three names. What

(25:26):
do you mean, Oh, welike Ray, Wally Hubbard, Billy Joe
Shaver, David allen Coe or RobertOkay, now you brought up David allen
Cole because you and I have talkedabout this before and again. When it
comes to picnic stories, it dependswho you talk to. You're gonna hear
a different version from everybody. Andthe version I heard about this and I

(25:47):
don't. I'm not even sure whichpicnic. This was one of the early
ones. David allen Cole was supposedto go on stage, and they arranged
for an airplane to fly over thepicnic, and the announcer it on stage
to point the picnic, to pointup at the plane and say, look,
here comes David allen Cole. Andthey pushed the dummy out with a

(26:08):
parachute and the parachute didn't open.Well, everybody's going, oh my god,
what happened? And then here comesDavid allen Cole walking on stage.
That's a story I heard from LarryTrader, but you heard a different story
right, and talking to Tyler Mayhanko, which I'm sure he's got the real
story because that's David Son. Formy research on the book, he cleared

(26:30):
up that rumor and I have heardthat that story from Amy Nelson. Okay,
he told me the same thing.She told me it was a helicopter
and a dummy. And Tyler toldme that, no, there was a
skydiver and he did jump out ofthe plane and parachute down. It wasn't
David allen Coe. Of course,it wasn't a dummy that hit the ground.
It wasn't a dummy that hit theground. I think that's one of

(26:51):
those things that grew into a legendafter the event. Okay, was that
And I'm not sure where that wouldhave come from, but it makes a
good story. And you know,but he told me that there was a
skydiver. He jumped out of theplane. Then David Allencoe came on stage
wearing a jumpsuit that looked like hewas the skydiver. Larry told me that

(27:12):
after the dummy hit the ground,they should have had David walk out limping
on stage with a pair of crutches. Whether he said that would have been
grave they had done that, andlisten, let's plug Tyler's podcast. Great
podcast The History Country Music Cocaine andRyan stone Rich. I really think is
one of the better podcast out there. Yes, I truly enjoy listening to
that one. And the George Jonesseason amazing was not only amazing, but

(27:37):
and he's got a book coming outbased on that. Yes, I already
does order on Amazon. I'm lookingforward any other crazy stories that you didn't
know about before you started talking topeople and did research for the book.
I do like Scott Newton's story abouthe was at the Gonzales Picnic in nineteen
seventy six. Scott Newton, ifyou don't know, he is a world
famous photographer's photographed everything at acl foryears. What's Scott's story? He said

(28:03):
that he and his wife were intheir tent at night after the first day
of the picnic, and they weregetting ready to go to bed when all
of a sudden, there's this hugeruckus outside and including people rolling over the
top of the tent, and sohe crawls out of the tent, which
has been knocked over at this point, and he sees that there's a huge
fight going on and he looks atit. He says, it's three karate

(28:26):
guys versus about a dozen cowboys.And he said the karate and well,
he said, the karate guys kickedthe heck out of everybody cartoon style.
And when they were done, theybrushed their hands and walked off. And
he said there was cowboys laying aroundand teeth and everything. And he said
it was the damnedest thing he'd everseen. Well, yeah, you'd remember

(28:48):
something like that of that happened.He said, it was just like a
movie. Oh boy, looking backat all the picnics, is there one
picnic that you wish you could haveattended? Best lineup for the picnic?
Because I would have loved to havebeen there hour time to see David Allen
Coole and of course Ray Price.The nineteen seventy four picnic had a huge

(29:08):
lineup. It kind of rivaled thetwo thousand and three picnic. Who was
there for that one. It hadBill Monroe, Jimmy Buffett played in nineteen
seventy four. It had a bunchof older time country stars that were Willie's
mentors growing up. Of course,it had Whalen at the height of him

(29:29):
being whaling at the skinny and cocaineand all that. So that would have
been a great one to see.Is that the same one where George Jones
was booked and he was afraid.You tell a great story in the book
about George Jones being afraid to goon. So that was the seventy six
picnic in Gonzales. I'll let youtell that story right now for our listeners.
In about George Jones not really surewhether he would should walk out on

(29:52):
stage front of this strange crowd,Tyler Mayhankoh and doing his research, he
came across the story and related itto me. He said that, of
course George Jones had huge stage rightwhen he was sober, and he had
gotten out to Gonzales, Texas forthe picnic and was relatively sober, and
he relatively for George Jones, youknow, and he looks out across this

(30:17):
crowd and it's, you know,a bunch of hippies, a bunch of
redneck cowboys. It's not really ahardcore country scene at all, and he's
basically thinking about taking off. Hedoesn't want to go on stage and sing
his classic country songs for them becausehe thinks they'll boo him. And he's

(30:37):
backing away from the stage and Davidallen Coe comes up behind him and says,
hey, where are you going?And George says, well, I
just don't think this is my crowd. And David allen Co said, you
know, says George, I gotlong hair, longer hair than anybody out
there, and I think you're fantastic. I want you to go sing,
and I'll stay right here and makesure nobody messes with you. And he

(31:00):
went out and apparently the crowd wentwild. In a newspaper interview about a
month later, George described it toa California newspaper as you know, the
crowd went crazy and it was fantastic, and he just really felt good about
it. Yeah, oh, justto be there, just to see think
you know about the picnic, itwas really more of a jam session.
You really didn't know what the setlist was going to be, and wouldn't

(31:22):
have been great to have some ofthe set lists from those past picnics.
Absolutely, I know you've got theattendance and a lot of them tell I
mean people attended, You've got greatstories about every picnic, but just to
know what the set list was,And you know what, if Tyler's working
on a third season of Cocaine andRhinestones, why not do a few episodes
on the Picnic. I wish youwould. I really, I really did
too. I wish he would too. You collect anything from the Picnics?

(31:45):
Any old T shirts, tickets ups, anything like that that you have.
I collect everything that I can getmy hands on, except you have,
except for T shirts and hats,I don't collect clothing. I had to
draw the line there. How manytickets stubs do you have? I've I
don't have all the ticket stubs,but I've got a pretty good collection,

(32:06):
including full tickets for most of thatfirst era of the Picnic from seventy three
through eighty. Are you going tocover the Picnic in Philadelphia this year?
Only if I saw a lot ofbooks in a short time. So we
have got it. Listen. I'veoffered to be MC again because I think
we needed a little Texas culture upin Philadelphia fourth July. So maybe you

(32:27):
and I can road trip together andgo up there and help Willie out.
Willy is the only person you didn'ttalk to about the Picnic When I started
writing the book. It was atthe height of COVID and I didn't even
try to talk to Willy then becauseI didn't want to be the person who
killed Willy. Yeah, and theybelieve me. They protect Willie. They
isolate Willy from a lot. Butonce everybody had gotten their vaccinations and everything,

(32:50):
I did reach out to Willy's people, to his publicity folks, and
we just couldn't come to an aquipment. Right. You know, you're sitting
in the Willy Nelson Engagement booth rightnow. This is where Willy proposed to
his wife Annie. I heard thebroken spoke, so I did not know
that we've got that Willy connection.We're talking to Dave Dalton Thomas right now.
The book is called Picnic Willie Nelson'sFourth July Tradition. Very well researched.

(33:12):
You go through every picnic that Willyhas had. Are you going to
update this book every four or fiveyears? I wish, I wish I
can. I hope I can.That's up to Texas A and M University
Press. So as long as itkeeps going, I'll be interested in updating
it. And we'll just have tosee how sales go and whether or not
they permit that it's one of thefavorite books that I have picked up the

(33:32):
past couple of months, and Ireally wish that Tim O'Connor could still be
with us, just to see whata great job that you have done with
this book. I definitely wish thathe was here too. Yeah, just
an amazing book. If you haven'tpicked it up, pick it up,
read it before the fourth July PicnicWillie Nelson's fourth July Tradition. Dave Dalton

(33:52):
Thomas, who, by the way, you used to work for The Statesman
at one time, right, Idid. I was a copy editor there
from two thousand and two through twentynineteen. I entered my career there as
a web producer. Well, we'reso glad that you're an author. Any
other books that you're working on.I've got a couple of ideas. I
don't want to bring anything to lightjust yet, but I definitely have the

(34:15):
bug and i'd like to. I'dlike to follow this up. I hope
that you do pick up the book. You'll love it. Picnic Willie Nelson's
Fourth Light Tradition and trying to talkwilling to send it us to Philadelphia at
least having the picnic here again nextyear. That's a tradition. Tales from
the Broken Spoke is recorded live atThe Broken Spoke in Austin, Texas,

(34:37):
hosted by Country Radio Hall of Famebroadcaster Bob Pickett and Monty Warden, recorded
mixed down and produced by Mike rivera