June 9, 2024 • 21 mins
Enjoy this conversation with Walt Wilkins, songwriter troubadour. It's one of our best visits ever and I can't wait for you to hear other segments soon.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Hey, it's Bob Pickett. Weare on our way to the legendary Broken
Spoken. Come on, let's getout the truck and head inside, and
damn froud of it. Come on, it's going side. Get ready for
(00:22):
another Tale from the Broken Spoke.From the Willie Nelson Booth B two at
the Legendary Broken Spoke. I'm BobPicket MONTI ward in time for another episode,
Time for more tales, Tales fromthe Broken Spoke, and sitting with
us in the booth right now.The legendary I mean when you say Troubadour,
this is who I think of ourgreat song Wilkins, Wilkin, y'allar
(00:43):
Swede if they've lowered the bar alot for legendary and I mean a lot.
No, no, come on,we've been enjoying your music for you
considerable. Yeah, it's fantastic.That's good to see y'all. Good to
see you both, and uh andbe here. I appreciate. It's an
honor. It's been a long timesince you and I've actually seen it.
That's the truth. And we liveclose to closer together, but in the
(01:04):
city limits. Yeah. So oneof my favorite songwriters any era, living
or dead, is one of thegreat composers, one of the great storytellers,
actually storytellers, and just one ofjust you know, he's a great
human being. And I love Walt, and I love Tina and love Luke.
They're great people. But I mean, really, who cares if they're
(01:26):
a good person or not because we'retalking about his music. Yeah, like
I've always said, no one eversaid, oh, Whaling Jennings, what
a sweetheart, you know? Buthe was great. Walt is one of
the greatest songwriters I've ever heard.I've been a huge fan of his for
long before I met him, andthen when we met, we were fast
friends. I got that the wayI was introduced to you, and of
(01:47):
course I think a lot of peoplewas through Pad Green. Let me just
read these lyrics, Pad Green.Old Walt Wilkins lives up in Nashville.
You know his eyes have seen themiles Walt onon. Don't you come down
it in Jim T's caddy, comedown to Texas and drink with me a
while. What tell us about this? What's the story behind you being a
miss? I've already told this storyonce today and I don't doesn't happen a
(02:12):
lot anymore. I used to haveto tell you already I was. I
was, uh talk talking to afriend of mine from North Texas, passed
through town. He and his familyjust had breakfast with them at Kirby Lane.
I'm having a nice Austin day.Come good to come into town,
you know. So Pat was onhis it was his first trip to Nashville,
(02:35):
and he we tried to write writea song and we we were kind
of stumbling through something that morning inmy little shack. I lived in a
shack on the grounds of Second PresbyterianChurch in Nashville. And by the way,
when he's as old what Wilkinson,I was forty, I'm gonna say
it's what I was going to say. You're the guy. Yeah, I
was forty. And uh so wewe kind of stole around. I couldn't
(03:00):
get anything started. We went toStarbucks, had a coffee, came back
to my little shack, and Imean it was a shock. I called
it the Spider Ranch and uh anduh he said, well I got this.
And he played that guitar riff,which I later found he had gotten
that from J Boy Adams, youknow. So he he plays it and
(03:20):
I said, and he sings thechorus, and I said, well,
Pat, that's that's your hit man. That's that just sounds great. Man.
He said, I don't have anyverses. I said, well,
we got thirty five minutes before Igot to take you to the airport in
Nashville, so you can get home. You sit over there on that corner
of the shack. I'll be inthis corner, literally eight feet apart.
I said, each write a verse, and so ten minutes up here are
(03:44):
the verses. And he this iswhen Pat. You know, this is
the innocent Pat before he you know, the million dollar deals or a million
but you know what I'm saying,he little little g Yeah, you're saying,
but he well, he well hewas doing and he was already you
know, he's doing good in Texas. But he he wrote that way like,
man, I'm sitting here with minebarb and the broke and spoke,
(04:08):
and you know, it's just that'show he used to write and it and
it was so charming and direct,you know, and I love those songs,
his early songs like that. Sothat verse is o' wa walkee.
You know he's here, We aretogether, he said, Jim T's caddy
well, he had just met JimT. At lunch. I'd introduced him
to my friend Jim T. Grahamfrom Pottsboro, Texas, who lived in
Nashville. Weren't of my dear friendsup there, and you know, so
(04:31):
that that was on his mind.So that's what he wrote about. I
wrote the what ended up being thelast verse, and helped him finish the
first verse he had started. Whenhe said oh, I said, well,
all right, man, but notmy name when you record it.
He goes, okay, all right, he goes, but I really want
to. I said, absolutely not. He goes, Okay, I won't.
(04:53):
I'll find something else. No.Lie. Four weeks later, I'm
driving uh to Texas to play mygigs, you know, every month or
so from that from Nashville, andI heard that song in the radio.
It came on and it said myname, and I almost went off Interstate
thirty, you know, just eastof Texarcana, and I called Dina.
(05:15):
I said, oh my god,you're not gonna believe what he did.
You know, but it's been ayou know, it's been more blessing than
the curse. Some people give mehell about it, like money who gave
me for me it was like whatI heard. It was a co writer
who put his name in this songwas money. Was the first one to
(05:35):
be like, hey, nice job. So many of us would love to
do that. Well Ahead and Wellhas like ten songs where he lists his
own name speakers. I had noneof those songs. Dear listeners out there,
this is money, this is aMONI rat. Well it was good
business for you and good business forEll Royal. We can tell you that
(05:56):
that song was Yeah, it wascool for El Royal and Clay and that's
cool. Don't you think that lendsitself to the honesty of that song.
If he said well old roy Ako, yeah, it wouldn't have worked.
It had to have that purity,right, and it is that. That
was pat It's just purely an innocentand great writer. I loved that those
writing that that part of his career, and it, man, it just
(06:18):
worked. Did you call him outon it though, Did you say why
did you do this? I thoughtyou. We talked about it a couple
of times, but ultimately he wasI know what he was doing. He
was trying to get people to say, Hey, you don't know who this
is, but I do. Andand so it was a and and and
then for a few years you'd haveyoung people Fat's age come to see me
play and go, well, you'renot that all you like? Yeah,
(06:40):
I know, but uh, yes, we got people to come hear me
playing. I appreciate it. Well, he's a pure hearted guy, big
heart. It just reminded me ofthat was a that was a real when
I heard it, and I knewit was in a complete, uh authentic
way, a genuine way. Butit reminded me very much of the early
(07:02):
seventies cosmic cowboy over. They wereall singing about each other, and I
thought I saw it work worked perfectly. Boys about the rift being taken,
probably overjoyed. We love when ourrifts were taking from other people. He
laughed about it. Anyway. Hewas he was when I talked to him,
and he he was. He wasfine. You know, he was
(07:24):
that somebody we need to have onbecause I used to see him when I
was in Lubbock. Yeah, backin his records. Yeah, he's the
first person ever rented a bus from. Really we had a bus company up
and love it. You were thefirst guy. He was the first person
ever rented a bus from. Yeah, like it was one of these time
I was I was here, uhmight have been at the spot and Jay
(07:46):
Boy was here and and uh andI just said, you know, I
want to you you have a buscompany riding? He was yeah. And
I said, well, I'm like, we're we're bigger than our van,
but we can't afford a bus.And he said, I'll put you in
a bus. I said, okay, And so he said call me Monday,
and I did. I called himup and love it and he cut
me just a sweetheart deal. Itwas, it was, it was great,
(08:09):
and it was like, you know, oh, wow, tour busy.
Oh I love being on the bus. Yeah, it's just fantastic.
You're you're on tour. Yeah,you know. And it's like you pull
up and you know, people,this is real bus and they take the
picture and then you get off andthey went, who's in there? You're
too young to have a bus.We just don't know who the hell you
(08:31):
are. Remember what time we pickedthis joyt down in uh uh Odessa or
Midland? And uh, it saidfrom Nashville, the wagoneers. That's funny.
It's so great. Now. Soyou're from here? Correct? Yeah,
Walter, Yeah, you and Iare one of the the natives.
(08:54):
So you're a native Austin I am. You worked at the cash carry there
on West Land. I did.And when did you realize you wanted to
go up to Nashville? Did youhave a publishing deal first? Did you
just go up there? No?I was lucky in that I had it
in hand when I moved. Iwas so. You know, that was
back when they were giving them awaypretty pretty free and easy. There was
(09:15):
money flowing everywhere. This is thepost the Garth Wave. There was money.
No, I let me just saythis, Walter. Yeah, no
one has ever gotten a publishing dealon the road because it was easy.
You get them because you're great.That that's that's the fact, because I
think the greatest songwriters in the world, particularly then, not so much now.
But then we're in Davidson County.They weren't necessarily from Davidson County,
(09:39):
but we all went the place,and so you didn't luck into a deal.
They didn't make a mistake. No, No, I didn't mean say
that, but it but it itwould have been this wouldn't happen now.
Well, those still those deals don'texist. They hardly exist. I think
someone told me just recently who's upthere said, now there are like three
(10:01):
hundred, that's it, three hundredwriting full time writing deals, right,
whereas there were three thousand I thinkwhen I lived there. Well, and
I know it's like we just dida symposium for you know, young writers,
you know a thing where you knowit pay me and Brandy both fifteen
hundred bucks. We're going to gotalk to people fifteen hundred yeah each,
(10:26):
how about that? So anyway he'sgoing to buy dinner. Yeah, but
it was wild back. But anyway, we said, how many of y'all
are just songwriters and how many y'allare artists? All of them wanted to
be artists, yes, yeah,and none of them could write their way
out of a paper bag. Theycouldn't write a grocery list. These were
(10:48):
non songs, and all of themfancy themselves. You know. The thing
was is like they all sang aboutas well as Christofferson in Towns, which
is great if you're writing songs asgood is Christopherson in Towns. But if
you can't sing or write, maybethis isn't what you should do. But
everybody is either an artist that signedor has an end with an artist that
(11:13):
that can write, but not justlike like my father in law and the
people we loved that we all knewwho they were when we were growing up.
Yeah, yeah, rock more thanthose cats. They were just songwriters.
Yeah, that was it. Yeah, it was wild and you know,
and so it's what made it sounique. Yeah. I mean there
(11:33):
was New York City I think,and then probably La a little bit of
La, but a whole lot ofNew York and a little bit of London,
I reckon, but ye, mostlyNashville. It was just the writers.
Yeah, and oh it was sucha it had to be so incredible,
you know, just such a greatera of you and I would have
loved to be in there in fromsixty five to seventy two, right,
(11:54):
or just you know, or sixtyto seventy in the Brill Building in New
York. Yeah, in Nashville hadyeah, those guys running around town acting
craze just to hang out with HarlanHoward and which I know you did buy
it. Yeah, but you know, just how long did you live in
Nashville? The ten years almost eleven, But that's yeah, I went up
there. Well, to answer yourquestion, I had no interest in Nashville.
(12:18):
I had a job I loved herein Austin. I was scouting locations
for movies for the Texas Film Commissionand was hanging out with the guys I
grew up with, and uh,you know, I was a young person.
It was around thirty, and Iwas writing songs and playing and learning
how to play him and playing guitarfor a friend of mine, and you
(12:39):
know, it was it was thegrooviest life ever. But of cassette.
My first cassette that I made woundits away from my best friend in uh,
and he dated a girl from Nashville. Her brother in law was the
head of BMG Publishing, And that'show happened. A guy called me at
(13:01):
my office and said, who wasn'tTodd Wilkes. Yeh okay, you know
he's been doing it for yeah,And he said you should come to Nashville.
I said, I have no interest, man, I got a great
life. He said, I'll flyup one time, just come look around.
So I did and went up therespend a day with Marcus Summon,
who at that he you know,it's Todd's an interesting cat who had grown
(13:24):
up in Austin partially too. Andanyway, that led it it took another
two years, you know, Iwas get you up? Yeah what blessed
the Broken Road? I believe,right, yeah, yeah. And his
number one hit at the time thatI was up there on my first trip
was Love and Love and Only Love. It was the Judge song. What
was that number of huge beautiful songanyway he had, he had the number
(13:48):
one song at the time. Anyway, he was, he was And it
was a great conversation with him thatday too, And and he proved to
be an interesting cat to know upthere. So yeah, so I went
to move to Nashville. I quitthe job and when I was thirty two
years old, even the job Iloved and would still be working there now,
(14:09):
I hope, and went to Nashville, you know, with everything I
owned in a jeep and started anythingthat you like, showed up to town.
You know, I still call itto town when we go to town.
Any songs that you showed up withthere that we would know, like
did you have you know, wouldn'tit make it through? Or no poetry
(14:31):
or anything? By then? Nothirty two song? How many they buy
thirty one or two songs on mywhat they called, you know, schedule
a that's the songs I had.MG gave me some money up front for
that to live while they worked outthe contract. We love scheduling a.
Yeah, it was a neat first, the first time you make money with
songs. Schedule as when you theysigned you to a publishing deal and it's
(14:54):
going to be everything you write forward. They have the copyright too. Okay,
they have publishing, you have yourwriter's royalties. But a schedule a
is when they pay you for thesongs you arrive with, and it's you
know, it's five hundred bucks asong or grand a song something like that.
Yeah, mine was three hundred bucksa song, right, but but
you had thirty songs, right,Yeah, So it felt incredible, you
(15:16):
know, it felt like, hey, I'm part of the I'm part of
this deal now the sky was songand for a while going style on sixteenth.
Yeah, so it was it wasfun. And then I went to
while they worked at that, Iwent to Florida and worked for a friend's
landscaping company and that was fun too, and my guy, you know,
(15:37):
the only particularly interesting part about that, besides you know, feeling sometimes like
I'd gotten a late start. Gosh, you'd already had you were already famous
by the by the time you werethat age I was by then, I
would have been my first has timeas it has been I've had. I
had two of those. Now thisis pretty this one because you were still
(16:02):
still the uh uh as I worked. The guy that signed me left immediately,
So there I was. You didn'thave a key man or anything everything
like that. Of course, notthe first deal, but uh, but
I fell under. I fell withU Chip Young, who had produced Delbert's
first records, Chris Stovererson's first record, Joey Lee's first two records, and
(16:25):
the Hell out of You he did. Yeah, and he got you too,
and yeah pretty much yeah he didand uh and he was just a
lovely guy, famous guitar player.I helped him figure out that he had
played on over nine thousand sessions.Wow. We we did a bunch of
math and stuff. But he wasa great storyteller. Grew up with Jerry
Reid. He was, you know, just the southern gentleman and and great
(16:52):
guy. At the time, hehad arthritis and he didn't couldn't really play
guitar anymore, but he had afamous guitar that sat in his office every
day. Anyone could pick it up, this soul gut string. That There
was a famous story about Elvis doinga karate demonstration at five in the morning
during one of his recording sessions,which Ships played on a bunch of his
stuff and and he said, Sonny, come at me, Man, come
(17:14):
at me, and and you know, hold the gun. And Sonny He's
like, I don't want to holdthe gun. He goes, just hold
the gun. I'm sure how toin you know, the whole band.
This is in the studio, inthe session at RCA Studios. And then
Elvis liked, be so it's tiny, you know, it's so it's and
they're all just sitting around like,oh god, no, and Chip said,
you know, Elvis disarmed, Sonnyhit it and he said this forty
(17:38):
five tumbling vertically across the room.He was like, no, it's he
looks it's aiming, it's going rightand my guitar and it did just and
the guitar had a perfect hole withthe sight on it, and so it
was kind of famous guitar. Youcould play it all the time. But
Chip, Chip was just awesome.Sorry, man, we'll get you out
(18:00):
here. Here's the house. I'llbuy your House Nasal at that time treat
Texas songwriters. Well, yeah,it was fine. Everyone was fine.
There were a lot of Texans asalways to me. To me, after
I started getting the Layland, itseemed to me there were two general camps
Texas which we were Guy Clark guys, and then the rest of them,
(18:22):
which were Harlan Howard guys. Interesting, that's good, That's what I That's
kind of my general how I thoughtabout it. These guys are trying to
write clever rhymes and all that stuff, and then a lot of us guys
were trying to write something else,you know, like a real life Yeah,
and I don't know if we'll keepthis in. But when I got
my first trip cut, there wasa song of mine he really dug and
(18:47):
they were now there was he wasgoing over to Sony for the for the
final song selection. They were downto fifteen songs and they were gonna put
twelve on the record, which meaningthree weren't gonna make it right, And
so they were passing around the entireIt was trit and his manager and Blake
Chancey and all the an R people, and so for the first time there's
lyric sheets. This is this istwo thousand, maybe two thousand and one,
(19:12):
two thousand and one, and sothere's lyric sheets and they played my
song and so Blake Chancey for thefirst time sees my name on this lyric
sheet. And so they listened tothe song. And it's only fifteen songs,
so that's not like all day.So they listen to the song,
and Trit didn't like Blake Chancey,head of an R and this is his
(19:33):
first record for Sony. He justleft Warner Brothers. And I don't know
if Trit loved this song or justdidn't like Blake. I have no idea.
But speaking about Travis Tripp, yeah, Travis Trip, Okay, Travis
Trick, you know, superstar andBlake goes because this is the year two
thousand, this is where there wasthere was something you know, Austin cool
(19:56):
was more of a pejorative and thenlike something you wanted to spire for.
So I listened to the song andBlake just out of nowhere goes is this
song to Austin for Travis oh Manand Trick goes. I don't know what
the funk that means that I'm recordingthis song that's good and I think it
(20:17):
had more to do with his disdainfor the head of a and Nor than
Alice. That's good. Now we'rekeeping that as Oh my gosh, that's
only part one of our three partconversation with Walt Wilkins, and uh,
the next conversation about how Walt leftthe TV film business in Texas, made
(20:41):
the move to Nashville, and there'sa dazed and confused movie connection. All
that's with part two with their visitwith Walt Wilkins on Tales from the Broken
Spokes. Y'all come back because there'smore stories. There's more tales. Tales
from the Broken Spoke is recorded live, but The Broken Spoke in Austin,
Texas, hosted by a country rateDio Hall of Fame broadcaster Bob Pickett and
(21:02):
Monty Warden, recorded mixed down andproduced by Mike Rivera
Hey, it's Bob Pickett. Weare on our way to the legendary Broken
Spoken. Come on, let's getout the truck and head inside, and
damn froud of it. Come on, it's going side. Get ready for
(00:22):
another Tale from the Broken Spoke.From the Willie Nelson Booth B two at
the Legendary Broken Spoke. I'm BobPicket MONTI ward in time for another episode,
Time for more tales, Tales fromthe Broken Spoke, and sitting with
us in the booth right now.The legendary I mean when you say Troubadour,
this is who I think of ourgreat song Wilkins, Wilkin, y'allar
(00:43):
Swede if they've lowered the bar alot for legendary and I mean a lot.
No, no, come on,we've been enjoying your music for you
considerable. Yeah, it's fantastic.That's good to see y'all. Good to
see you both, and uh andbe here. I appreciate. It's an
honor. It's been a long timesince you and I've actually seen it.
That's the truth. And we liveclose to closer together, but in the
(01:04):
city limits. Yeah. So oneof my favorite songwriters any era, living
or dead, is one of thegreat composers, one of the great storytellers,
actually storytellers, and just one ofjust you know, he's a great
human being. And I love Walt, and I love Tina and love Luke.
They're great people. But I mean, really, who cares if they're
(01:26):
a good person or not because we'retalking about his music. Yeah, like
I've always said, no one eversaid, oh, Whaling Jennings, what
a sweetheart, you know? Buthe was great. Walt is one of
the greatest songwriters I've ever heard.I've been a huge fan of his for
long before I met him, andthen when we met, we were fast
friends. I got that the wayI was introduced to you, and of
(01:47):
course I think a lot of peoplewas through Pad Green. Let me just
read these lyrics, Pad Green.Old Walt Wilkins lives up in Nashville.
You know his eyes have seen themiles Walt onon. Don't you come down
it in Jim T's caddy, comedown to Texas and drink with me a
while. What tell us about this? What's the story behind you being a
miss? I've already told this storyonce today and I don't doesn't happen a
(02:12):
lot anymore. I used to haveto tell you already I was. I
was, uh talk talking to afriend of mine from North Texas, passed
through town. He and his familyjust had breakfast with them at Kirby Lane.
I'm having a nice Austin day.Come good to come into town,
you know. So Pat was onhis it was his first trip to Nashville,
(02:35):
and he we tried to write writea song and we we were kind
of stumbling through something that morning inmy little shack. I lived in a
shack on the grounds of Second PresbyterianChurch in Nashville. And by the way,
when he's as old what Wilkinson,I was forty, I'm gonna say
it's what I was going to say. You're the guy. Yeah, I
was forty. And uh so wewe kind of stole around. I couldn't
(03:00):
get anything started. We went toStarbucks, had a coffee, came back
to my little shack, and Imean it was a shock. I called
it the Spider Ranch and uh anduh he said, well I got this.
And he played that guitar riff,which I later found he had gotten
that from J Boy Adams, youknow. So he he plays it and
(03:20):
I said, and he sings thechorus, and I said, well,
Pat, that's that's your hit man. That's that just sounds great. Man.
He said, I don't have anyverses. I said, well,
we got thirty five minutes before Igot to take you to the airport in
Nashville, so you can get home. You sit over there on that corner
of the shack. I'll be inthis corner, literally eight feet apart.
I said, each write a verse, and so ten minutes up here are
(03:44):
the verses. And he this iswhen Pat. You know, this is
the innocent Pat before he you know, the million dollar deals or a million
but you know what I'm saying,he little little g Yeah, you're saying,
but he well, he well hewas doing and he was already you
know, he's doing good in Texas. But he he wrote that way like,
man, I'm sitting here with minebarb and the broke and spoke,
(04:08):
and you know, it's just that'show he used to write and it and
it was so charming and direct,you know, and I love those songs,
his early songs like that. Sothat verse is o' wa walkee.
You know he's here, We aretogether, he said, Jim T's caddy
well, he had just met JimT. At lunch. I'd introduced him
to my friend Jim T. Grahamfrom Pottsboro, Texas, who lived in
Nashville. Weren't of my dear friendsup there, and you know, so
(04:31):
that that was on his mind.So that's what he wrote about. I
wrote the what ended up being thelast verse, and helped him finish the
first verse he had started. Whenhe said oh, I said, well,
all right, man, but notmy name when you record it.
He goes, okay, all right, he goes, but I really want
to. I said, absolutely not. He goes, Okay, I won't.
(04:53):
I'll find something else. No.Lie. Four weeks later, I'm
driving uh to Texas to play mygigs, you know, every month or
so from that from Nashville, andI heard that song in the radio.
It came on and it said myname, and I almost went off Interstate
thirty, you know, just eastof Texarcana, and I called Dina.
(05:15):
I said, oh my god,you're not gonna believe what he did.
You know, but it's been ayou know, it's been more blessing than
the curse. Some people give mehell about it, like money who gave
me for me it was like whatI heard. It was a co writer
who put his name in this songwas money. Was the first one to
(05:35):
be like, hey, nice job. So many of us would love to
do that. Well Ahead and Wellhas like ten songs where he lists his
own name speakers. I had noneof those songs. Dear listeners out there,
this is money, this is aMONI rat. Well it was good
business for you and good business forEll Royal. We can tell you that
(05:56):
that song was Yeah, it wascool for El Royal and Clay and that's
cool. Don't you think that lendsitself to the honesty of that song.
If he said well old roy Ako, yeah, it wouldn't have worked.
It had to have that purity,right, and it is that. That
was pat It's just purely an innocentand great writer. I loved that those
writing that that part of his career, and it, man, it just
(06:18):
worked. Did you call him outon it though, Did you say why
did you do this? I thoughtyou. We talked about it a couple
of times, but ultimately he wasI know what he was doing. He
was trying to get people to say, Hey, you don't know who this
is, but I do. Andand so it was a and and and
then for a few years you'd haveyoung people Fat's age come to see me
play and go, well, you'renot that all you like? Yeah,
(06:40):
I know, but uh, yes, we got people to come hear me
playing. I appreciate it. Well, he's a pure hearted guy, big
heart. It just reminded me ofthat was a that was a real when
I heard it, and I knewit was in a complete, uh authentic
way, a genuine way. Butit reminded me very much of the early
(07:02):
seventies cosmic cowboy over. They wereall singing about each other, and I
thought I saw it work worked perfectly. Boys about the rift being taken,
probably overjoyed. We love when ourrifts were taking from other people. He
laughed about it. Anyway. Hewas he was when I talked to him,
and he he was. He wasfine. You know, he was
(07:24):
that somebody we need to have onbecause I used to see him when I
was in Lubbock. Yeah, backin his records. Yeah, he's the
first person ever rented a bus from. Really we had a bus company up
and love it. You were thefirst guy. He was the first person
ever rented a bus from. Yeah, like it was one of these time
I was I was here, uhmight have been at the spot and Jay
(07:46):
Boy was here and and uh andI just said, you know, I
want to you you have a buscompany riding? He was yeah. And
I said, well, I'm like, we're we're bigger than our van,
but we can't afford a bus.And he said, I'll put you in
a bus. I said, okay, And so he said call me Monday,
and I did. I called himup and love it and he cut
me just a sweetheart deal. Itwas, it was, it was great,
(08:09):
and it was like, you know, oh, wow, tour busy.
Oh I love being on the bus. Yeah, it's just fantastic.
You're you're on tour. Yeah,you know. And it's like you pull
up and you know, people,this is real bus and they take the
picture and then you get off andthey went, who's in there? You're
too young to have a bus.We just don't know who the hell you
(08:31):
are. Remember what time we pickedthis joyt down in uh uh Odessa or
Midland? And uh, it saidfrom Nashville, the wagoneers. That's funny.
It's so great. Now. Soyou're from here? Correct? Yeah,
Walter, Yeah, you and Iare one of the the natives.
(08:54):
So you're a native Austin I am. You worked at the cash carry there
on West Land. I did.And when did you realize you wanted to
go up to Nashville? Did youhave a publishing deal first? Did you
just go up there? No?I was lucky in that I had it
in hand when I moved. Iwas so. You know, that was
back when they were giving them awaypretty pretty free and easy. There was
(09:15):
money flowing everywhere. This is thepost the Garth Wave. There was money.
No, I let me just saythis, Walter. Yeah, no
one has ever gotten a publishing dealon the road because it was easy.
You get them because you're great.That that's that's the fact, because I
think the greatest songwriters in the world, particularly then, not so much now.
But then we're in Davidson County.They weren't necessarily from Davidson County,
(09:39):
but we all went the place,and so you didn't luck into a deal.
They didn't make a mistake. No, No, I didn't mean say
that, but it but it itwould have been this wouldn't happen now.
Well, those still those deals don'texist. They hardly exist. I think
someone told me just recently who's upthere said, now there are like three
(10:01):
hundred, that's it, three hundredwriting full time writing deals, right,
whereas there were three thousand I thinkwhen I lived there. Well, and
I know it's like we just dida symposium for you know, young writers,
you know a thing where you knowit pay me and Brandy both fifteen
hundred bucks. We're going to gotalk to people fifteen hundred yeah each,
(10:26):
how about that? So anyway he'sgoing to buy dinner. Yeah, but
it was wild back. But anyway, we said, how many of y'all
are just songwriters and how many y'allare artists? All of them wanted to
be artists, yes, yeah,and none of them could write their way
out of a paper bag. Theycouldn't write a grocery list. These were
(10:48):
non songs, and all of themfancy themselves. You know. The thing
was is like they all sang aboutas well as Christofferson in Towns, which
is great if you're writing songs asgood is Christopherson in Towns. But if
you can't sing or write, maybethis isn't what you should do. But
everybody is either an artist that signedor has an end with an artist that
(11:13):
that can write, but not justlike like my father in law and the
people we loved that we all knewwho they were when we were growing up.
Yeah, yeah, rock more thanthose cats. They were just songwriters.
Yeah, that was it. Yeah, it was wild and you know,
and so it's what made it sounique. Yeah. I mean there
(11:33):
was New York City I think,and then probably La a little bit of
La, but a whole lot ofNew York and a little bit of London,
I reckon, but ye, mostlyNashville. It was just the writers.
Yeah, and oh it was sucha it had to be so incredible,
you know, just such a greatera of you and I would have
loved to be in there in fromsixty five to seventy two, right,
(11:54):
or just you know, or sixtyto seventy in the Brill Building in New
York. Yeah, in Nashville hadyeah, those guys running around town acting
craze just to hang out with HarlanHoward and which I know you did buy
it. Yeah, but you know, just how long did you live in
Nashville? The ten years almost eleven, But that's yeah, I went up
there. Well, to answer yourquestion, I had no interest in Nashville.
(12:18):
I had a job I loved herein Austin. I was scouting locations
for movies for the Texas Film Commissionand was hanging out with the guys I
grew up with, and uh,you know, I was a young person.
It was around thirty, and Iwas writing songs and playing and learning
how to play him and playing guitarfor a friend of mine, and you
(12:39):
know, it was it was thegrooviest life ever. But of cassette.
My first cassette that I made woundits away from my best friend in uh,
and he dated a girl from Nashville. Her brother in law was the
head of BMG Publishing, And that'show happened. A guy called me at
(13:01):
my office and said, who wasn'tTodd Wilkes. Yeh okay, you know
he's been doing it for yeah,And he said you should come to Nashville.
I said, I have no interest, man, I got a great
life. He said, I'll flyup one time, just come look around.
So I did and went up therespend a day with Marcus Summon,
who at that he you know,it's Todd's an interesting cat who had grown
(13:24):
up in Austin partially too. Andanyway, that led it it took another
two years, you know, Iwas get you up? Yeah what blessed
the Broken Road? I believe,right, yeah, yeah. And his
number one hit at the time thatI was up there on my first trip
was Love and Love and Only Love. It was the Judge song. What
was that number of huge beautiful songanyway he had, he had the number
(13:48):
one song at the time. Anyway, he was, he was And it
was a great conversation with him thatday too, And and he proved to
be an interesting cat to know upthere. So yeah, so I went
to move to Nashville. I quitthe job and when I was thirty two
years old, even the job Iloved and would still be working there now,
(14:09):
I hope, and went to Nashville, you know, with everything I
owned in a jeep and started anythingthat you like, showed up to town.
You know, I still call itto town when we go to town.
Any songs that you showed up withthere that we would know, like
did you have you know, wouldn'tit make it through? Or no poetry
(14:31):
or anything? By then? Nothirty two song? How many they buy
thirty one or two songs on mywhat they called, you know, schedule
a that's the songs I had.MG gave me some money up front for
that to live while they worked outthe contract. We love scheduling a.
Yeah, it was a neat first, the first time you make money with
songs. Schedule as when you theysigned you to a publishing deal and it's
(14:54):
going to be everything you write forward. They have the copyright too. Okay,
they have publishing, you have yourwriter's royalties. But a schedule a
is when they pay you for thesongs you arrive with, and it's you
know, it's five hundred bucks asong or grand a song something like that.
Yeah, mine was three hundred bucksa song, right, but but
you had thirty songs, right,Yeah, So it felt incredible, you
(15:16):
know, it felt like, hey, I'm part of the I'm part of
this deal now the sky was songand for a while going style on sixteenth.
Yeah, so it was it wasfun. And then I went to
while they worked at that, Iwent to Florida and worked for a friend's
landscaping company and that was fun too, and my guy, you know,
(15:37):
the only particularly interesting part about that, besides you know, feeling sometimes like
I'd gotten a late start. Gosh, you'd already had you were already famous
by the by the time you werethat age I was by then, I
would have been my first has timeas it has been I've had. I
had two of those. Now thisis pretty this one because you were still
(16:02):
still the uh uh as I worked. The guy that signed me left immediately,
So there I was. You didn'thave a key man or anything everything
like that. Of course, notthe first deal, but uh, but
I fell under. I fell withU Chip Young, who had produced Delbert's
first records, Chris Stovererson's first record, Joey Lee's first two records, and
(16:25):
the Hell out of You he did. Yeah, and he got you too,
and yeah pretty much yeah he didand uh and he was just a
lovely guy, famous guitar player.I helped him figure out that he had
played on over nine thousand sessions.Wow. We we did a bunch of
math and stuff. But he wasa great storyteller. Grew up with Jerry
Reid. He was, you know, just the southern gentleman and and great
(16:52):
guy. At the time, hehad arthritis and he didn't couldn't really play
guitar anymore, but he had afamous guitar that sat in his office every
day. Anyone could pick it up, this soul gut string. That There
was a famous story about Elvis doinga karate demonstration at five in the morning
during one of his recording sessions,which Ships played on a bunch of his
stuff and and he said, Sonny, come at me, Man, come
(17:14):
at me, and and you know, hold the gun. And Sonny He's
like, I don't want to holdthe gun. He goes, just hold
the gun. I'm sure how toin you know, the whole band.
This is in the studio, inthe session at RCA Studios. And then
Elvis liked, be so it's tiny, you know, it's so it's and
they're all just sitting around like,oh god, no, and Chip said,
you know, Elvis disarmed, Sonnyhit it and he said this forty
(17:38):
five tumbling vertically across the room.He was like, no, it's he
looks it's aiming, it's going rightand my guitar and it did just and
the guitar had a perfect hole withthe sight on it, and so it
was kind of famous guitar. Youcould play it all the time. But
Chip, Chip was just awesome.Sorry, man, we'll get you out
(18:00):
here. Here's the house. I'llbuy your House Nasal at that time treat
Texas songwriters. Well, yeah,it was fine. Everyone was fine.
There were a lot of Texans asalways to me. To me, after
I started getting the Layland, itseemed to me there were two general camps
Texas which we were Guy Clark guys, and then the rest of them,
(18:22):
which were Harlan Howard guys. Interesting, that's good, That's what I That's
kind of my general how I thoughtabout it. These guys are trying to
write clever rhymes and all that stuff, and then a lot of us guys
were trying to write something else,you know, like a real life Yeah,
and I don't know if we'll keepthis in. But when I got
my first trip cut, there wasa song of mine he really dug and
(18:47):
they were now there was he wasgoing over to Sony for the for the
final song selection. They were downto fifteen songs and they were gonna put
twelve on the record, which meaningthree weren't gonna make it right, And
so they were passing around the entireIt was trit and his manager and Blake
Chancey and all the an R people, and so for the first time there's
lyric sheets. This is this istwo thousand, maybe two thousand and one,
(19:12):
two thousand and one, and sothere's lyric sheets and they played my
song and so Blake Chancey for thefirst time sees my name on this lyric
sheet. And so they listened tothe song. And it's only fifteen songs,
so that's not like all day.So they listen to the song,
and Trit didn't like Blake Chancey,head of an R and this is his
(19:33):
first record for Sony. He justleft Warner Brothers. And I don't know
if Trit loved this song or justdidn't like Blake. I have no idea.
But speaking about Travis Tripp, yeah, Travis Trip, Okay, Travis
Trick, you know, superstar andBlake goes because this is the year two
thousand, this is where there wasthere was something you know, Austin cool
(19:56):
was more of a pejorative and thenlike something you wanted to spire for.
So I listened to the song andBlake just out of nowhere goes is this
song to Austin for Travis oh Manand Trick goes. I don't know what
the funk that means that I'm recordingthis song that's good and I think it
(20:17):
had more to do with his disdainfor the head of a and Nor than
Alice. That's good. Now we'rekeeping that as Oh my gosh, that's
only part one of our three partconversation with Walt Wilkins, and uh,
the next conversation about how Walt leftthe TV film business in Texas, made
(20:41):
the move to Nashville, and there'sa dazed and confused movie connection. All
that's with part two with their visitwith Walt Wilkins on Tales from the Broken
Spokes. Y'all come back because there'smore stories. There's more tales. Tales
from the Broken Spoke is recorded live, but The Broken Spoke in Austin,
Texas, hosted by a country rateDio Hall of Fame broadcaster Bob Pickett and
(21:02):
Monty Warden, recorded mixed down andproduced by Mike Rivera
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