February 19, 2024 • 22 mins
Guitarist Will Knaak join Bob and Monte at historic Broken Spoke. Did you know Will started playing at the Spoke when he was only 12 years old? Listen and learn more about Will's amazing musical journey.
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(00:00):
Hey, it's Bob Pickett. Weare on our way to the legendary Broken
Spoken. Come on, let's getout the truck and head inside, and
damn you're proud of it. Comeon, it's going side, getting ready
(00:22):
for another Tale from the Broken Spoke. Back once again, we got more
tales, Bob Picket. It's Talesfrom Broken Spoke, from the world famous
historic Broken Spoke on South of marIn Austin, Texas. Moni's grinning at
me right now. What's going on? I'm just happy that Will's here.
Yeah, how y'all doing. I'lllet you introduce Will and tell everybody about
him, because I'll tell my storyabout We'll after you. All right,
(00:44):
Well, this is one of mydear, dear friends, a dear brother
in one of and I've been doingthis since I was fourteen years old,
NonStop, only thing. It's oneof the most talented people I have ever
known in any genre. Plays guitarplays, steal guitar play, anything in
front of him, and he's aneven better human being. Will Mack Willnack.
(01:07):
Now, Okay, I guess bothyou and Will went to daycare right
here at the Broken Spoke exactly right. I grew up here. What's the
first time you picked here? Iwas? I was fourteen twelve, right,
see, I'm twelve years old.I listed. I listed on social
media and Facebook for a while asmy high school because you neither one of
us ever saw a high school.Right, I was eighth grade? When
did you quit going to school aftereighth grade? I'm like, Billy Joe
(01:32):
Shaver got me in eighth grade?Education too, good Christian raising. I
don't know if I got that,but I'm working on it, I said,
Man, I graduated the shit outof the eighth grade. Yeah,
so I have a gd greatly educateddude. You know I got all I
need? And you were held backat the broken spoke. I think it's
okay, right, that's yay,man, So twelve years old broken spoke,
(01:52):
explain that to us now. Soand actually in this, I'll just
get heavy and get deep right away, Get deep right away. My mother
got drunk and set our house onfire when I was real young eleven,
and uh I woke up and rescuedmy dad. Anyway, the house was
burned down, so they moved usacross town to Oldworf. And when I
(02:13):
was stuck in this apartment all summer, and I like to play sports.
I like to play football well outsidewith my friends, but I couldn't get
there. They lived ten miles awayor five miles away or whatever. So
all summer I was locked in thisapartment while he was at work, playing
video games and guitar. And Iloved Kurt Cobain and I got into Jimmy
Hendricks and all sorts of other stuff. Later, but we started going to
(02:34):
Spoke to listen to bands. Mydad saw that, and I met Patty
David and Michelle Murphy. Patty introducedme to Michelle, and she introduced me
to guitar Lynd, who taught mea blue skill right on the floor,
right there on her knees about yes, and told me, if you can
learn this scale, you can playon any song in any key. And
(02:54):
so I went home and it's justlike just over and over and started playing
with some people here, sitting inwith Patty David and Debora Peters, who
was like an accordion player. Shedid a lot of zydaco and country.
She's great, Yeah, she's amazing. Boomer Norman was her guitar player.
He gave me a lot of instructionI met Johnny X through Michelle Murphy,
who had the National Music camp thatthey got me into, and Johnny started
(03:17):
mentoring me, but he would alsolet me sit in with his bands in
addition to what he was doing atthe school, and so they would notice,
like when I think this is howto have it? I never got
told, but you know, ifthe kid played Johnny be Good behind his
head, there's fifties and hundreds thatstarted getting dropped in the tip jar,
so like maybe we should hire himsometimes, you know. So as like
I had this naive perspective, likeI didn't know what I was even doing,
(03:38):
but I was already doing it.And they were then teaching me more
material. Johnny Wuld teach me venturesongs, chitt Santo and Johnny how to
play exactly Stormy Monday, Bobby Blandthe solo note for note, and I
played with Paul Ray and the coverswhen I was like thirteen, and he
was blown away by the Wayne Bennettsolo I did because he's it sounded wow,
how you thirteen and you can playWayne Bennett? And I didn't even
(03:59):
know what I was doing. Seriously, I still had no clue, but
they were giving me these opportunities andI just kept going, you know,
I had nothing else, and soyeah, broken Spoke. It really did
start here, and I was playingwith Alvin Crow by the time I was
fifteen. But you realize how luckyyou were at the time. You didn't
it was just another everyday currency.Well. But also, let me just
say this, there's a lot ofkids that listened to Jimmy Hendrix and Kurt
(04:23):
Cobain and Johnny be Good millions.There are hundreds that can play that stuff.
And also, you know so manyif you're not a picker. It's
like the notes, well you canlearn the notes, you can even learn
how to play, but you can'tlearn talent. And like when I first
(04:43):
started hearing about Will was that there'slike there's this kid and he's got a
tone like Denny Freeman, and nobodysays nobody says yeah, they said,
you know Denny Freeman, and itwas like, okay, well, how's
that happening? Goo He plugs inand it just sounds that way. You
know. It's one of those thingswhere people like the old joke, you
(05:03):
know, you're playing a guitar andgoes man, that guitar sounds good.
So then you hand it to himand go, well, how does it
sound? Now? You know,right, that's a good one. So
and it's just like Will, It'sjust uh. And and also you have
to remember the uh, the theTexas club tradition, you know, you
(05:25):
know, back in the early fifties. I think the first little we had
was little Dougie Song. I thinkthat I think he was the first little
Then we had little Jimmy Vaughan,the little Stevie vaugh And then you know
in Charlie Charlie in the in theeighties, you know. And so just
that, and and the thing isit's not so much the novelty of that
(05:45):
kids can do it. It isthis thing that is only in Texas that
I have found that they really don'tcare your age, or if you're white
or black or Hispanic, or ifyou're just good or if there's the potential
for you to be good. BecauseI know, like when I started picking,
my whole thing was I could.I wasn't very proficient on the guitar,
(06:06):
but I've always been able to writesongs people wanted to hear. And
I was fourteen and doing it.All these people that said Will had something
going on, said, I hadsomething going on, even though it was
you know, ten fifteen years apart. They just recognized here's a youngster that
we're probably going to want to payattention to for a long while. And
(06:26):
you know, and Will has played, you know, not in just country.
He was how long were you withBlue October? For five years?
He was with Blue October multi platinumrock band for five years. He was
their cat, you know. Andso you don't get that on accident.
You don't get that from being lucky. You get that from being great.
And I've known Will a long time. He and I didn't even meet three
(06:48):
music, but I heard of himthrough music. But we've met through mutual
friends. And now he's with ParkerMcCollum. And of all the crew,
you and I've had this conversation,I think of all the acts that have
come up in the last ten years, I think Parker is the one that's
going to be in the Country MusicHall of Fame. Is just amazing.
Yeah, he's a superstar, said, I'm just grateful to be there,
(07:11):
but yeah, he's he's the besthuman ever. Man. I'll say that
about the boss. Thank you,boss. Amen. Well, we hope
he listens to this podcast. Well, but I mean, but look,
he's got you, you know whatI mean. He's got he's got JR.
Producing him, John Stewart and uhuh John Randall Stewart, and he's
just got just a great group ofhumans. You can find great pickers.
(07:33):
There's the name musicians, Gune.It's like easy to find a picker than
it is a plumber. But it'sabout finding great people that you with whom
you want to create. Well that'syou know. When I got hired on,
I was talking to just hey,thank you so much. I'm a
join it, love it man,and uh, He's like, brother,
there was no one else I wasgoing to hire. My biggest fear is
(07:54):
that I get up on stage doingthis in front of ten thousand people with
a bunch of guys from Nashville andI don't even know and he's like,
I can't, I can't do that. And it does his culture like seeps
down to the crew where it's afamily man, you know, and that's
a blessing, Like you don't getthat by someone who's not running it.
Right. So the leadership is reallygreat there. Man. Let's talk about
(08:15):
the relationship with you guys. Doyou guys meet when he was playing over
at the Saxon when he was playingthere. I didn't meet him at Saxon.
I met him before blow October.I was playing with Wade Bowen and
then uh Wade Boone and Randy Rogerson the whole my Beer record, that
first one. I cut guitar onit and played the tour right and he
would open shows for us, andI remember seeing it. I was like
ten years a little plus ten tenor so years ago and uh, man,
(08:37):
good looking kid, great voice,good songs. He's he's got.
So I told him up at uhRon Brothers my last year with Wade,
I was like, where you want, Parker is upstream. I'm gonna be
downstream right here, and I seeit's all coming for you, son,
and he can't be you really catchit all. And I'm just gonna be
doing good, uh knowing you you'reup there? You know so uh And
we all laughed about it, butyeah, it was it's it's it's amazing.
(09:01):
Sounds like a pretty good gig.Now let's talk about you. Mentioned
Alvin Crowe also now Alvin Crowe.I wouldn't be who I am day without
Alvin and Johnny and speaking like,yeah, kids listening to Jimmy Hendricks and
Kirk cob and it's easy to grabonto pop culture right and whatever gets you
started. But they're like, oh, you like Jimmy Hendricks, What do
you think about Freddie King? Whatdo you think about Elmore James? Well,
(09:22):
why don't you learn some buck Owenslegs? Why don't you learn some
Haggard songs? How about Bob Wills? You ever heard out of? To
play western swing? A western swingElden Shamblin, you know, play some
of that rhythm. I'm not amaster of any style, but I'm just
having to grow up and hustle forgigs, like I have to play in
the authentic style whatever that song is. So if it's a Latin jazz too,
(09:45):
and you use a harmonic minor skin, I learned a bunch of playing
from Ernie Durrawa to playing with adifferent guest every week for ten years at
one point, and that would beyou'd have a tehana artist and a blues
artist, and then an R andB artist and Latin jazz, and it
was just like you had to goquick every week and learn and so That's
That's how I'm trying and keep itas like you just have to play a
song authentically the way the song needsto be played, nothing more, nothing
(10:09):
less, No ego licks. Usedto have ego licks, sometimes still got
them. But you know, giveme a fuzz pedal, I'll show you
what I'm talking about. But yeah, that's a you know, that's all
it is, and lifting up thatsong, telling the story of the song
through the music. And I tryand think about that on stage. I
read this Inner Game of Music bookthat some of Morgan Wallin's camp introduce me
to when we're in the gym togetheron the tour we did last year,
and uh, he as opposed tothinking about execution, you think about what's
(10:35):
the story of the song. Youcan think about how it makes you feel.
You can think about I'm just lookingat my hands, I'm just hearing
it. All these different senses thataren't self one talk saying hey, hit
the tenth threat B string a noteon this solo. And you know what
I mean, Like there are ifyou're think don't mess up. If you
think don't mess up, you're alreadymessing up. So it just gets you
in a flow, stay a littlebetter. But uh, that's a real
truth of it, like what themusic should be played, how the song
(10:58):
is sounds and it the music shouldrepresent the story of the song. So
I'm really trying to get that down. I feel like I'm starting to starting
to see it a little more,you know, was it also It's like
John Lee Hooker said, they ain'tbut twelve notes, you know, And
it is just what I was taughtbecause I was taught not by pickers but
by songwriters. You know, thatwas the culture in which I came up,
and they said, man, thissong is the dictator. It's a
(11:20):
benevolent dictator, right, but itis a dictator, and that is the
boss. Whether you sing it,you pick it, what type of solo
you play, whether you show outa little bit, or whether you lay
back. The song is the dictator. And so often writers forget that,
pickers forget that. But I tellyou who never forgets it is the audience.
(11:41):
The audience never forgets that the songis the dictator. And you have
got to always listen to what movesthem because they will never lie to you
or and they will never get itwrong either. You know, the collective
of three hundred people, thirty thousandpeople that you're going to ask you,
is it almost like a runner.It's that certain zone when you're on stage.
(12:01):
Do you get in that certain zonewhere oh, it's just you know
you're there, you just can't thinkabout It's like what he said, if
you think about it, it's likea quarterback saying, don't throw an interception.
The next pass is intercepted. Youknow, you just got to flow.
But there again, Will has thenatural you know, the day he
was born, God gave him thattalent to where he can flow. If
(12:22):
you put his guitar in my hand, you go, man, that's money
Ward and he sold a zillion recordsand you're going to wait a long time
for that flow to start because I'mnot that type of musician. And the
moment, whether he's picking with AlvinCrow or Parker McCollum or Bracken Hell or
Blue October or Wade Bowen, theminute Will starts picking with somebody, immediately
(12:46):
their music is elevated. Well,I'll take that, man, I appreciate
That's what that's what I intend todo, and that's what I try to
do. And yeah, that's that'swhy I'm so hooked. It's not about
the money. It's not about somepeople think it's fame. You know,
it's none of that. And itis living in that where you lose sight
(13:07):
of self consciousness. And it waswhen after my mother died, I was
really angry at God. Right,had a huge bone to pick. I
started playing guitar. I remember whenI was like sixteen at the Hole in
the Wall playing a residency I wasdoing, and we were playing a song
and I started ripping. It's likeI went out of my body and I
could play these things that I hadnever learned and that I'll never be able
(13:30):
to remember or repeat again. AndI was like, God, oh,
that's it. And it's not everytime. You know, you practice diligently
so you can play par musically,the worst I can do is give you
a good show. The best Ican do is beyond me, and that's
not me. And that's where I'mconnected, and it's vital. I would
play on the street if I losteverything, I'd still be playing, right,
(13:54):
that's right. Because you talk aboutit's not about the money, let
me just ask you a question.Playing before there was money, yeah,
yeah, and you played differently nowthat there is money. Now, you
hope not. You know, Ias a writer, but I was around
enough successful writers to know that thesecond you have a hit, do nothing
(14:16):
different. The worst thing you cando is try to write what made you
successful, because then what you've doneis you have removed God from the equation
and put yourself in the equation.And I was blessed to get out of
the God business almost nineteen years ago. That position has been filled by someone
far more qualified. And that's whatWill and I are talking about is just
(14:39):
if you can get to a placeto always let him in, that's a
good place. Amen. Yeah.On your days off, do you pick
up the guitar every day or prettymuch? And there's a balance there,
Like some days I'm real diligent,and I'll be like, I'm clocking in
two hours on steal today and I'mdoing an hour on guitar, and then
some days it's twenty thirty minutes,you know, And you have to balance
(15:01):
it out because the flow, whenyou overdo it, the flow is interrupted
because you're trying to perfect it,and it gets stale and it's not fun
anymore, and you're so you're losingsight of it. Right, You're going
for perfection, which isn't achievable anyway. But yeah, finding that balance of
like keeping the urge and it's freshversus being refined. So it's like it's
a little bit each way, youknow, every time it shifts a little
(15:24):
bit. But you do things whenwhen you're in the tour season and the
shows are happening, Like I haveroutines that I do daily out there.
Me and Parker started picking guitars aboutan hour before every show. I'll go
warm up on my steel parts forat least twenty thirty minutes, you know,
stuff like that. And yeah,and also you got to take care
of yourself, gym running, allthat sort of stuff. You know,
(15:46):
I'm sober, so I'm not puttingpoison in my body. All that keeps
me maintained. And if you playdifferently before the money or whatever, it's
it is just a little differences,like, well, you've got this and
I can do this. How doI maintain this right? And that's the
main goal. If I can maintainthis, that's the bottom line. And
then how do I get a littlebit better? You know, that's always
(16:07):
on the agenda too. But youcan't burn out, you know, I've
been doing it a long time,twelve to I'll be forty soon. So
almost twenty eight years, you're forty. I'll be forty this year. I'm
thirty nine. I'm not. Don'tsound forty, No, no, no,
no, I'm kidding. Alternative.I was thinking, like twenty eight,
twenty nine. I've been doing thisa long time, brother, Yeah,
a long time. So I mightnot be as talent as money says.
(16:30):
I just never quit. And youtell a lot, but you still
poisoning yourself almost nine years ago too, and that yeah ten, no,
I'll tell you like almost Yeah,life got better super quick, right,
And really the journey started about thirteenyears ago. I had a bad breakup
and I went off the rails fortwo weeks, got back on the horse,
(16:52):
and it's it's been good ever since. But uh yeah, that's how
that goes. So it was thebreakup. Get do you know why I
took dope because I'm a drug addict? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
I'll blame it on the breakup though, you know. Okay, Now,
what would you tell any twelve yearold kid who's just picked up a
guitar? What advice would you give? You can give advice to a younger
you, what would you say,First of all, listen, just listen
(17:15):
to what they're telling you and whatthey're playing. You know, that's the
biggest way you learn is listening,and that's the best way you play too.
Is like everybody's always worried about theirtone and how they sound, then
you're already not going to fit inwith the band. If you're listening to
the drummer and the bass player,you're gonna feel it and you're gonna play
the right things, just as areflex. So listening is the most important
skill that you can probably learn.And I know some musicians read and that's
(17:38):
great. I can read charts.I can do that and that's great.
His reference. But the other daywe were working up a song, we
did a Toby Keith song because hedied, you know, and we're working
up a soundcheck. My guitar techcomes out with the chart. He's like,
you want this. I'm like,no, I'd rather mess it up
without a chart than play it stale. And so I try and get you
know, with doing that Earni gig, I got to where I could listen
to a song about three times andbe able to and had the arrangement had
(18:00):
it down, you know, thenyou got to go into detail. How
far detail you know that there's there'sdifferent degrees of every gig that you have
to realize they might be paid tokind of improv, improv a little bit
more and do my own thing overthis, or is there record licks that
this one has to go there andknowing how to how to do that.
But also, I mean, ifyou're trying to do an established gig,
there's a lot of rehearsing that goesin, and there's lighting cues and there's
(18:23):
like pyro cues and all this stuffthat if you play a different part,
it doesn't go with the cue ofthe deal. And we don't play the
tracks and we don't do none ofthat. The lock Sums band's really into
an arrangement. But I mean you'vegot to you gotta have some of that.
So different gigs require different skill sets. But if you listen, you'll
you'll know. But also like pickers, they come to depend on your licks
(18:45):
and you come to compair on theirlicks, not that you're playing a record,
but just to show them the respectof the of the show that Okay,
we hit a big crash here andso you got to hit that big
power chord that goes with the crash. And if you decide not to,
it just it just it disrupts theflow. But but also it's like,
you know about reading charts, It'slike that's like reading the map. You
(19:07):
know, it's like, yeah,that will show you how to get from
here to there, but that hasI will say this about charts, and
I don't. I don't read shapenotes. I just read number of charts.
Uh. I'm not great at shapenotes either. I can do it
a little bit. I can't.It's really stupid. Not stupid. Sheet
music, okay, like in thechurch sheet music, I have no those
are dots. Looks like somebody dotsand lines. O'kay somebody spilled some mank.
(19:30):
But I can read nationale number charts. I'm real good at that.
But but no magic is derived fromthe chart. That's only that's from God.
And that's the pickers relationship with God. Yeah, yeah, yes,
where do we go? And mostof the time you can pretty much prickling
country and blues. You can smellwhere it goes. Jazz sometimes you need
(19:52):
to. There's a difference between theone and the one major seventh but you
learn to kind of smell it orfeel it if you're worth a damn,
you know, but we'll okay,I mean from the Broken Spoke to the
Moody Center, that's an entirely differentstyle of playing. I mean, here,
you've got the crowd Moody Center.The last time I saw you play
with Parker. I mean, likeI say, you've got the fireworks going
off, you've got the lights,you've got everything that doesn't distract you at
(20:17):
all. You can't let it wait. Well, sometimes you know that's just
what you know, that fire goesoff behind you two feet and you're like,
oh, we flinched a little bit. I didn't miss a note.
Okay, you know it's a it'sso yeah, some of that can,
but it's more show business, iswhat I'm saying, than here at the
Spoke. Oh for sure. No. And then that's all part of it,
you know, engaging fans and creatingan experience, and that's what people
(20:38):
are doing. You know, they'repaying their harder and money to see something
and feel something different. And themore elements you can use to evoke that
emotion of the music, than allthe better. And that's all that is
it's just enhancers. But you know, we had a show happened. It
was rainy. They couldn't do lights, they couldn't do the video walls,
they couldn't even do our risers.So we just set up like a band
of a club and we played themusic and the people loved it. And
(21:00):
like, if you can't do that, then all that stuff, don't don't
start there, you know, don'tgo get the fancy leather jacket and the
sleeve of tattoos. Moved to Lawith a Les Paul and think you're gonna
be Slash. Learn to play likeSlash first, then start dressing like him,
you know, And that's you know, I keep itself up. I'm
a black T shirt Levi's boots kindof guy. When I played with October,
I where Converse or Doc Martin sometimesbecause they're a little edgier, you
gotta look look the part a littlebit. Bill Ham I worked with him
(21:22):
when I was twenty, and thatwas when I first started doing like some
arenas and bigger shows, from doingclubs to that. And he was easy
Tops manager and producer for like almostforty years. And he would always tell
me, like, you know,when you go out look, be ready
to play on stage like everything.And so to me, that's like some
guys take that over the top andthey're wearing feather bow is out and Doyle
does this thing. I love it. He only he can pull that off.
But me, it's like, whatcan I dress in every day?
(21:45):
That's simple. I can still getup there. I got my black teacher
jeans, right yeah. And it'sme so simplicity in that. But uh,
you know that's something too, youknow, it's it takes everything,
Like you can't go up there unkempt, and people take you seriously, you
know, with an attitude and guitarand like be a professional, show up,
like brush your teeth, cut yournails, you know, be ready,
like show them you're ready and they'llthey'll respect that. Such a great
conversation with Will, and we'll continuewith part two for conversation with Will Neck
(22:08):
on Tales from the Broken Spoke nextweek. In the meantime, listen to
some past episodes are all waiting foryou right now where their free iHeartRadio app.
Tales from the Broken Spoke is recordedlive at The Broken Spoke in Austin,
Texas, hosted by Country Radio Hallof fame broadcaster Bog Picket and Monty
Warden, recorded, mixed down andproduced by Mike rivera
Hey, it's Bob Pickett. Weare on our way to the legendary Broken
Spoken. Come on, let's getout the truck and head inside, and
damn you're proud of it. Comeon, it's going side, getting ready
(00:22):
for another Tale from the Broken Spoke. Back once again, we got more
tales, Bob Picket. It's Talesfrom Broken Spoke, from the world famous
historic Broken Spoke on South of marIn Austin, Texas. Moni's grinning at
me right now. What's going on? I'm just happy that Will's here.
Yeah, how y'all doing. I'lllet you introduce Will and tell everybody about
him, because I'll tell my storyabout We'll after you. All right,
(00:44):
Well, this is one of mydear, dear friends, a dear brother
in one of and I've been doingthis since I was fourteen years old,
NonStop, only thing. It's oneof the most talented people I have ever
known in any genre. Plays guitarplays, steal guitar play, anything in
front of him, and he's aneven better human being. Will Mack Willnack.
(01:07):
Now, Okay, I guess bothyou and Will went to daycare right
here at the Broken Spoke exactly right. I grew up here. What's the
first time you picked here? Iwas? I was fourteen twelve, right,
see, I'm twelve years old.I listed. I listed on social
media and Facebook for a while asmy high school because you neither one of
us ever saw a high school.Right, I was eighth grade? When
did you quit going to school aftereighth grade? I'm like, Billy Joe
(01:32):
Shaver got me in eighth grade?Education too, good Christian raising. I
don't know if I got that,but I'm working on it, I said,
Man, I graduated the shit outof the eighth grade. Yeah,
so I have a gd greatly educateddude. You know I got all I
need? And you were held backat the broken spoke. I think it's
okay, right, that's yay,man, So twelve years old broken spoke,
(01:52):
explain that to us now. Soand actually in this, I'll just
get heavy and get deep right away, Get deep right away. My mother
got drunk and set our house onfire when I was real young eleven,
and uh I woke up and rescuedmy dad. Anyway, the house was
burned down, so they moved usacross town to Oldworf. And when I
(02:13):
was stuck in this apartment all summer, and I like to play sports.
I like to play football well outsidewith my friends, but I couldn't get
there. They lived ten miles awayor five miles away or whatever. So
all summer I was locked in thisapartment while he was at work, playing
video games and guitar. And Iloved Kurt Cobain and I got into Jimmy
Hendricks and all sorts of other stuff. Later, but we started going to
(02:34):
Spoke to listen to bands. Mydad saw that, and I met Patty
David and Michelle Murphy. Patty introducedme to Michelle, and she introduced me
to guitar Lynd, who taught mea blue skill right on the floor,
right there on her knees about yes, and told me, if you can
learn this scale, you can playon any song in any key. And
(02:54):
so I went home and it's justlike just over and over and started playing
with some people here, sitting inwith Patty David and Debora Peters, who
was like an accordion player. Shedid a lot of zydaco and country.
She's great, Yeah, she's amazing. Boomer Norman was her guitar player.
He gave me a lot of instructionI met Johnny X through Michelle Murphy,
who had the National Music camp thatthey got me into, and Johnny started
(03:17):
mentoring me, but he would alsolet me sit in with his bands in
addition to what he was doing atthe school, and so they would notice,
like when I think this is howto have it? I never got
told, but you know, ifthe kid played Johnny be Good behind his
head, there's fifties and hundreds thatstarted getting dropped in the tip jar,
so like maybe we should hire himsometimes, you know. So as like
I had this naive perspective, likeI didn't know what I was even doing,
(03:38):
but I was already doing it.And they were then teaching me more
material. Johnny Wuld teach me venturesongs, chitt Santo and Johnny how to
play exactly Stormy Monday, Bobby Blandthe solo note for note, and I
played with Paul Ray and the coverswhen I was like thirteen, and he
was blown away by the Wayne Bennettsolo I did because he's it sounded wow,
how you thirteen and you can playWayne Bennett? And I didn't even
(03:59):
know what I was doing. Seriously, I still had no clue, but
they were giving me these opportunities andI just kept going, you know,
I had nothing else, and soyeah, broken Spoke. It really did
start here, and I was playingwith Alvin Crow by the time I was
fifteen. But you realize how luckyyou were at the time. You didn't
it was just another everyday currency.Well. But also, let me just
say this, there's a lot ofkids that listened to Jimmy Hendrix and Kurt
(04:23):
Cobain and Johnny be Good millions.There are hundreds that can play that stuff.
And also, you know so manyif you're not a picker. It's
like the notes, well you canlearn the notes, you can even learn
how to play, but you can'tlearn talent. And like when I first
(04:43):
started hearing about Will was that there'slike there's this kid and he's got a
tone like Denny Freeman, and nobodysays nobody says yeah, they said,
you know Denny Freeman, and itwas like, okay, well, how's
that happening? Goo He plugs inand it just sounds that way. You
know. It's one of those thingswhere people like the old joke, you
(05:03):
know, you're playing a guitar andgoes man, that guitar sounds good.
So then you hand it to himand go, well, how does it
sound? Now? You know,right, that's a good one. So
and it's just like Will, It'sjust uh. And and also you have
to remember the uh, the theTexas club tradition, you know, you
(05:25):
know, back in the early fifties. I think the first little we had
was little Dougie Song. I thinkthat I think he was the first little
Then we had little Jimmy Vaughan,the little Stevie vaugh And then you know
in Charlie Charlie in the in theeighties, you know. And so just
that, and and the thing isit's not so much the novelty of that
(05:45):
kids can do it. It isthis thing that is only in Texas that
I have found that they really don'tcare your age, or if you're white
or black or Hispanic, or ifyou're just good or if there's the potential
for you to be good. BecauseI know, like when I started picking,
my whole thing was I could.I wasn't very proficient on the guitar,
(06:06):
but I've always been able to writesongs people wanted to hear. And
I was fourteen and doing it.All these people that said Will had something
going on, said, I hadsomething going on, even though it was
you know, ten fifteen years apart. They just recognized here's a youngster that
we're probably going to want to payattention to for a long while. And
(06:26):
you know, and Will has played, you know, not in just country.
He was how long were you withBlue October? For five years?
He was with Blue October multi platinumrock band for five years. He was
their cat, you know. Andso you don't get that on accident.
You don't get that from being lucky. You get that from being great.
And I've known Will a long time. He and I didn't even meet three
(06:48):
music, but I heard of himthrough music. But we've met through mutual
friends. And now he's with ParkerMcCollum. And of all the crew,
you and I've had this conversation,I think of all the acts that have
come up in the last ten years, I think Parker is the one that's
going to be in the Country MusicHall of Fame. Is just amazing.
Yeah, he's a superstar, said, I'm just grateful to be there,
(07:11):
but yeah, he's he's the besthuman ever. Man. I'll say that
about the boss. Thank you,boss. Amen. Well, we hope
he listens to this podcast. Well, but I mean, but look,
he's got you, you know whatI mean. He's got he's got JR.
Producing him, John Stewart and uhuh John Randall Stewart, and he's
just got just a great group ofhumans. You can find great pickers.
(07:33):
There's the name musicians, Gune.It's like easy to find a picker than
it is a plumber. But it'sabout finding great people that you with whom
you want to create. Well that'syou know. When I got hired on,
I was talking to just hey,thank you so much. I'm a
join it, love it man,and uh, He's like, brother,
there was no one else I wasgoing to hire. My biggest fear is
(07:54):
that I get up on stage doingthis in front of ten thousand people with
a bunch of guys from Nashville andI don't even know and he's like,
I can't, I can't do that. And it does his culture like seeps
down to the crew where it's afamily man, you know, and that's
a blessing, Like you don't getthat by someone who's not running it.
Right. So the leadership is reallygreat there. Man. Let's talk about
(08:15):
the relationship with you guys. Doyou guys meet when he was playing over
at the Saxon when he was playingthere. I didn't meet him at Saxon.
I met him before blow October.I was playing with Wade Bowen and
then uh Wade Boone and Randy Rogerson the whole my Beer record, that
first one. I cut guitar onit and played the tour right and he
would open shows for us, andI remember seeing it. I was like
ten years a little plus ten tenor so years ago and uh, man,
(08:37):
good looking kid, great voice,good songs. He's he's got.
So I told him up at uhRon Brothers my last year with Wade,
I was like, where you want, Parker is upstream. I'm gonna be
downstream right here, and I seeit's all coming for you, son,
and he can't be you really catchit all. And I'm just gonna be
doing good, uh knowing you you'reup there? You know so uh And
we all laughed about it, butyeah, it was it's it's it's amazing.
(09:01):
Sounds like a pretty good gig.Now let's talk about you. Mentioned
Alvin Crowe also now Alvin Crowe.I wouldn't be who I am day without
Alvin and Johnny and speaking like,yeah, kids listening to Jimmy Hendricks and
Kirk cob and it's easy to grabonto pop culture right and whatever gets you
started. But they're like, oh, you like Jimmy Hendricks, What do
you think about Freddie King? Whatdo you think about Elmore James? Well,
(09:22):
why don't you learn some buck Owenslegs? Why don't you learn some
Haggard songs? How about Bob Wills? You ever heard out of? To
play western swing? A western swingElden Shamblin, you know, play some
of that rhythm. I'm not amaster of any style, but I'm just
having to grow up and hustle forgigs, like I have to play in
the authentic style whatever that song is. So if it's a Latin jazz too,
(09:45):
and you use a harmonic minor skin, I learned a bunch of playing
from Ernie Durrawa to playing with adifferent guest every week for ten years at
one point, and that would beyou'd have a tehana artist and a blues
artist, and then an R andB artist and Latin jazz, and it
was just like you had to goquick every week and learn and so That's
That's how I'm trying and keep itas like you just have to play a
song authentically the way the song needsto be played, nothing more, nothing
(10:09):
less, No ego licks. Usedto have ego licks, sometimes still got
them. But you know, giveme a fuzz pedal, I'll show you
what I'm talking about. But yeah, that's a you know, that's all
it is, and lifting up thatsong, telling the story of the song
through the music. And I tryand think about that on stage. I
read this Inner Game of Music bookthat some of Morgan Wallin's camp introduce me
to when we're in the gym togetheron the tour we did last year,
and uh, he as opposed tothinking about execution, you think about what's
(10:35):
the story of the song. Youcan think about how it makes you feel.
You can think about I'm just lookingat my hands, I'm just hearing
it. All these different senses thataren't self one talk saying hey, hit
the tenth threat B string a noteon this solo. And you know what
I mean, Like there are ifyou're think don't mess up. If you
think don't mess up, you're alreadymessing up. So it just gets you
in a flow, stay a littlebetter. But uh, that's a real
truth of it, like what themusic should be played, how the song
(10:58):
is sounds and it the music shouldrepresent the story of the song. So
I'm really trying to get that down. I feel like I'm starting to starting
to see it a little more,you know, was it also It's like
John Lee Hooker said, they ain'tbut twelve notes, you know, And
it is just what I was taughtbecause I was taught not by pickers but
by songwriters. You know, thatwas the culture in which I came up,
and they said, man, thissong is the dictator. It's a
(11:20):
benevolent dictator, right, but itis a dictator, and that is the
boss. Whether you sing it,you pick it, what type of solo
you play, whether you show outa little bit, or whether you lay
back. The song is the dictator. And so often writers forget that,
pickers forget that. But I tellyou who never forgets it is the audience.
(11:41):
The audience never forgets that the songis the dictator. And you have
got to always listen to what movesthem because they will never lie to you
or and they will never get itwrong either. You know, the collective
of three hundred people, thirty thousandpeople that you're going to ask you,
is it almost like a runner.It's that certain zone when you're on stage.
(12:01):
Do you get in that certain zonewhere oh, it's just you know
you're there, you just can't thinkabout It's like what he said, if
you think about it, it's likea quarterback saying, don't throw an interception.
The next pass is intercepted. Youknow, you just got to flow.
But there again, Will has thenatural you know, the day he
was born, God gave him thattalent to where he can flow. If
(12:22):
you put his guitar in my hand, you go, man, that's money
Ward and he sold a zillion recordsand you're going to wait a long time
for that flow to start because I'mnot that type of musician. And the
moment, whether he's picking with AlvinCrow or Parker McCollum or Bracken Hell or
Blue October or Wade Bowen, theminute Will starts picking with somebody, immediately
(12:46):
their music is elevated. Well,I'll take that, man, I appreciate
That's what that's what I intend todo, and that's what I try to
do. And yeah, that's that'swhy I'm so hooked. It's not about
the money. It's not about somepeople think it's fame. You know,
it's none of that. And itis living in that where you lose sight
(13:07):
of self consciousness. And it waswhen after my mother died, I was
really angry at God. Right,had a huge bone to pick. I
started playing guitar. I remember whenI was like sixteen at the Hole in
the Wall playing a residency I wasdoing, and we were playing a song
and I started ripping. It's likeI went out of my body and I
could play these things that I hadnever learned and that I'll never be able
(13:30):
to remember or repeat again. AndI was like, God, oh,
that's it. And it's not everytime. You know, you practice diligently
so you can play par musically,the worst I can do is give you
a good show. The best Ican do is beyond me, and that's
not me. And that's where I'mconnected, and it's vital. I would
play on the street if I losteverything, I'd still be playing, right,
(13:54):
that's right. Because you talk aboutit's not about the money, let
me just ask you a question.Playing before there was money, yeah,
yeah, and you played differently nowthat there is money. Now, you
hope not. You know, Ias a writer, but I was around
enough successful writers to know that thesecond you have a hit, do nothing
(14:16):
different. The worst thing you cando is try to write what made you
successful, because then what you've doneis you have removed God from the equation
and put yourself in the equation.And I was blessed to get out of
the God business almost nineteen years ago. That position has been filled by someone
far more qualified. And that's whatWill and I are talking about is just
(14:39):
if you can get to a placeto always let him in, that's a
good place. Amen. Yeah.On your days off, do you pick
up the guitar every day or prettymuch? And there's a balance there,
Like some days I'm real diligent,and I'll be like, I'm clocking in
two hours on steal today and I'mdoing an hour on guitar, and then
some days it's twenty thirty minutes,you know, And you have to balance
(15:01):
it out because the flow, whenyou overdo it, the flow is interrupted
because you're trying to perfect it,and it gets stale and it's not fun
anymore, and you're so you're losingsight of it. Right, You're going
for perfection, which isn't achievable anyway. But yeah, finding that balance of
like keeping the urge and it's freshversus being refined. So it's like it's
a little bit each way, youknow, every time it shifts a little
(15:24):
bit. But you do things whenwhen you're in the tour season and the
shows are happening, Like I haveroutines that I do daily out there.
Me and Parker started picking guitars aboutan hour before every show. I'll go
warm up on my steel parts forat least twenty thirty minutes, you know,
stuff like that. And yeah,and also you got to take care
of yourself, gym running, allthat sort of stuff. You know,
(15:46):
I'm sober, so I'm not puttingpoison in my body. All that keeps
me maintained. And if you playdifferently before the money or whatever, it's
it is just a little differences,like, well, you've got this and
I can do this. How doI maintain this right? And that's the
main goal. If I can maintainthis, that's the bottom line. And
then how do I get a littlebit better? You know, that's always
(16:07):
on the agenda too. But youcan't burn out, you know, I've
been doing it a long time,twelve to I'll be forty soon. So
almost twenty eight years, you're forty. I'll be forty this year. I'm
thirty nine. I'm not. Don'tsound forty, No, no, no,
no, I'm kidding. Alternative.I was thinking, like twenty eight,
twenty nine. I've been doing thisa long time, brother, Yeah,
a long time. So I mightnot be as talent as money says.
(16:30):
I just never quit. And youtell a lot, but you still
poisoning yourself almost nine years ago too, and that yeah ten, no,
I'll tell you like almost Yeah,life got better super quick, right,
And really the journey started about thirteenyears ago. I had a bad breakup
and I went off the rails fortwo weeks, got back on the horse,
(16:52):
and it's it's been good ever since. But uh yeah, that's how
that goes. So it was thebreakup. Get do you know why I
took dope because I'm a drug addict? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
I'll blame it on the breakup though, you know. Okay, Now,
what would you tell any twelve yearold kid who's just picked up a
guitar? What advice would you give? You can give advice to a younger
you, what would you say,First of all, listen, just listen
(17:15):
to what they're telling you and whatthey're playing. You know, that's the
biggest way you learn is listening,and that's the best way you play too.
Is like everybody's always worried about theirtone and how they sound, then
you're already not going to fit inwith the band. If you're listening to
the drummer and the bass player,you're gonna feel it and you're gonna play
the right things, just as areflex. So listening is the most important
skill that you can probably learn.And I know some musicians read and that's
(17:38):
great. I can read charts.I can do that and that's great.
His reference. But the other daywe were working up a song, we
did a Toby Keith song because hedied, you know, and we're working
up a soundcheck. My guitar techcomes out with the chart. He's like,
you want this. I'm like,no, I'd rather mess it up
without a chart than play it stale. And so I try and get you
know, with doing that Earni gig, I got to where I could listen
to a song about three times andbe able to and had the arrangement had
(18:00):
it down, you know, thenyou got to go into detail. How
far detail you know that there's there'sdifferent degrees of every gig that you have
to realize they might be paid tokind of improv, improv a little bit
more and do my own thing overthis, or is there record licks that
this one has to go there andknowing how to how to do that.
But also, I mean, ifyou're trying to do an established gig,
there's a lot of rehearsing that goesin, and there's lighting cues and there's
(18:23):
like pyro cues and all this stuffthat if you play a different part,
it doesn't go with the cue ofthe deal. And we don't play the
tracks and we don't do none ofthat. The lock Sums band's really into
an arrangement. But I mean you'vegot to you gotta have some of that.
So different gigs require different skill sets. But if you listen, you'll
you'll know. But also like pickers, they come to depend on your licks
(18:45):
and you come to compair on theirlicks, not that you're playing a record,
but just to show them the respectof the of the show that Okay,
we hit a big crash here andso you got to hit that big
power chord that goes with the crash. And if you decide not to,
it just it just it disrupts theflow. But but also it's like,
you know about reading charts, It'slike that's like reading the map. You
(19:07):
know, it's like, yeah,that will show you how to get from
here to there, but that hasI will say this about charts, and
I don't. I don't read shapenotes. I just read number of charts.
Uh. I'm not great at shapenotes either. I can do it
a little bit. I can't.It's really stupid. Not stupid. Sheet
music, okay, like in thechurch sheet music, I have no those
are dots. Looks like somebody dotsand lines. O'kay somebody spilled some mank.
(19:30):
But I can read nationale number charts. I'm real good at that.
But but no magic is derived fromthe chart. That's only that's from God.
And that's the pickers relationship with God. Yeah, yeah, yes,
where do we go? And mostof the time you can pretty much prickling
country and blues. You can smellwhere it goes. Jazz sometimes you need
(19:52):
to. There's a difference between theone and the one major seventh but you
learn to kind of smell it orfeel it if you're worth a damn,
you know, but we'll okay,I mean from the Broken Spoke to the
Moody Center, that's an entirely differentstyle of playing. I mean, here,
you've got the crowd Moody Center.The last time I saw you play
with Parker. I mean, likeI say, you've got the fireworks going
off, you've got the lights,you've got everything that doesn't distract you at
(20:17):
all. You can't let it wait. Well, sometimes you know that's just
what you know, that fire goesoff behind you two feet and you're like,
oh, we flinched a little bit. I didn't miss a note.
Okay, you know it's a it'sso yeah, some of that can,
but it's more show business, iswhat I'm saying, than here at the
Spoke. Oh for sure. No. And then that's all part of it,
you know, engaging fans and creatingan experience, and that's what people
(20:38):
are doing. You know, they'repaying their harder and money to see something
and feel something different. And themore elements you can use to evoke that
emotion of the music, than allthe better. And that's all that is
it's just enhancers. But you know, we had a show happened. It
was rainy. They couldn't do lights, they couldn't do the video walls,
they couldn't even do our risers.So we just set up like a band
of a club and we played themusic and the people loved it. And
(21:00):
like, if you can't do that, then all that stuff, don't don't
start there, you know, don'tgo get the fancy leather jacket and the
sleeve of tattoos. Moved to Lawith a Les Paul and think you're gonna
be Slash. Learn to play likeSlash first, then start dressing like him,
you know, And that's you know, I keep itself up. I'm
a black T shirt Levi's boots kindof guy. When I played with October,
I where Converse or Doc Martin sometimesbecause they're a little edgier, you
gotta look look the part a littlebit. Bill Ham I worked with him
(21:22):
when I was twenty, and thatwas when I first started doing like some
arenas and bigger shows, from doingclubs to that. And he was easy
Tops manager and producer for like almostforty years. And he would always tell
me, like, you know,when you go out look, be ready
to play on stage like everything.And so to me, that's like some
guys take that over the top andthey're wearing feather bow is out and Doyle
does this thing. I love it. He only he can pull that off.
But me, it's like, whatcan I dress in every day?
(21:45):
That's simple. I can still getup there. I got my black teacher
jeans, right yeah. And it'sme so simplicity in that. But uh,
you know that's something too, youknow, it's it takes everything,
Like you can't go up there unkempt, and people take you seriously, you
know, with an attitude and guitarand like be a professional, show up,
like brush your teeth, cut yournails, you know, be ready,
like show them you're ready and they'llthey'll respect that. Such a great
conversation with Will, and we'll continuewith part two for conversation with Will Neck
(22:08):
on Tales from the Broken Spoke nextweek. In the meantime, listen to
some past episodes are all waiting foryou right now where their free iHeartRadio app.
Tales from the Broken Spoke is recordedlive at The Broken Spoke in Austin,
Texas, hosted by Country Radio Hallof fame broadcaster Bog Picket and Monty
Warden, recorded, mixed down andproduced by Mike rivera
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