April 22, 2025 • 17 mins
-
Linda McMahon's Appointment:
- Linda McMahon was appointed as the Secretary of Education by the President, who wanted her to dismantle the Department of Education.
- Despite her background not being primarily in education, she has experience on the Connecticut State Board of Education and the board of trustees at Sacred Heart University.
-
Objective to Shut Down the Department of Education:
- The President's goal is to return education control to the states and eliminate federal bureaucracy.
- McMahon's role involves managing this transition and ensuring states can maximize the funds saved from shutting down the department.
-
Wasteful Spending:
- McMahon identified significant waste in the Department of Education, particularly $600 million spent on teacher training programs focused on DEI (Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion) rather than traditional training.
-
Critique of Current Education System:
- The discussion highlights the failure of the Department of Education to improve performance scores despite spending over $3 trillion since its establishment in 1980.
- McMahon advocates for a return to basics like reading and arithmetic, which have shown improvement in schools that adopt these methods.
-
Technology and Education:
- There is a concern about the outdated technology being taught in schools.
- McMahon emphasizes the need for education to be in touch with community and industry needs, including modern technology and AI.
-
Alternative Education Paths:
- The conversation touches on the importance of trades and crafts, suggesting that not all students need to go to college.
- McMahon supports short-term Pell Grants to help students enter the workforce faster.
-
School Choice:
- McMahon and the President are strong proponents of school choice, including charter schools, public schools, homeschooling, and magnet schools.
- The goal is to provide equal access to excellent education and avoid trapping children in failing schools.
-
Parental Involvement:
- The importance of parental involvement in education is emphasized, especially in supporting local school systems and advocating for appropriate curriculum.
-
Legislative Support:
- Shutting down the Department of Education requires an Act of Congress, and McMahon seeks partnership with Congress to achieve this goal.
- She encourages parents to be involved locally and advocate for school choice and educational reforms.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome. It is the Ben Ferguson Show. It is so
nice to have you with us live from the White
House and sitting in front of me as a woman
that has taken on an almost impossible task. I was
so excited when I heard this name Linda McMahon. And
if you don't know the history of Linda, you need
to google it because she has done some amazing things
in her career. And you get this job. You get
(00:23):
a phone call to become the United States Secretary of Education.
How did this even come about? How was the phone
call that you received from the President? I got to
know the backstory real quick because I think it's so fascinating.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Well, good morning, and thank you very much for having me. Ben.
It Well, you may or may not recall, but I
was the co chair of the transition committee for the President.
So we were putting in place all of the different
cabinet secretaries, etc. And you know, I'm working on everybody
else's department. And the President talks to me and he says, look,
(00:55):
he says, I've got the perfect place for you. And
I said, oh, okay, what are you thinking? He said,
Department of Education. I said, well, you realize that my
background is not, you know, in the world of education,
although I got my certificate to teach and I was
prepared to teach French. I also served on the Connecticut
State Board of Education, and then I've been on the
(01:16):
board of trustees at Sacred Heart University for sixteen years.
I said, so I do have education background. And he said, look,
here's what I want to do with the Department of Education.
I want to shut it down. And so I laughed.
I laughed, and I said, so in other words, excuse me,
I said, so, in other words, you want me to
preside over my own demise. And he laughed out loud
(01:36):
and he said, yep. He said, I do want you
to do that. He said, and here's what I need.
He said, rather than have an educator in place to
do this, what I really need is a business person.
I need an executive. I need a leader who knows
how to manage and can handle this. He said. We
need to return education to the States. He said, I
want to take the bureaucracy out of education, and as
(01:59):
much money as we're saving and doing that, I want
to make sure that the states can maximize, you know,
that money and have the programs that they need in place.
So he said, so I need you to come on
board and do that, and I do that. Yes, II Captain,
I'm ready to go.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
So you get here and you get this new job,
and it's an incredible job, and you're putting yourself out
of business, which is also like a weird mentality to have.
What was the biggest waste of tax dollars that you've
uncovered at DOGE And let's start there.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Well, I can tell you know they First of all,
let me say I welcomed the DOGE group that came
in and has been looking at a lot of the
wasteful spending that has been going on. I think one
of the things that jumped out at me was that
we had about six hundred million dollars that we were
spending on teacher training programs. Now that's so now that sounds,
(02:55):
you know, incredibly like a good amount of money to
be spending on a good thing to train our teachers.
But what we really were finding was that most of
the programs at that point were really focused on DEI training, yeah,
and not on what excuse me you would typically be
looking at, you know, for teacher training. And so we
(03:18):
took back that money, and we shut down that kind
of training program. So that was one that just jumped
out at me.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
So is it fair to say the Department of Education?
And I have a sister, she's in an inner city
school and she's doing the best that she can. My
mom was a teacher, my aunt was a principal. Like
I come from that world. But what is sad to
me is it seems like the Department of Education has
basically decided we're going to indoctrinate kids instead of educate kids,
(03:44):
and we're going to do it in a way with
using taxpayer dollars to indoctrinate them and what we believe
in instead of reading, writing, and arithmetic. How far off
am I on that from a national standpoint?
Speaker 2 (03:53):
You know, far off on that at all? And what
we have really seen, I mean, think about this, Ben.
The Department of Education was established in nineteen eighty and
since that time, we have spent over three trillion dollars
in education, and our performance scores have continued to go down.
And you know, I don't I don't say there haven't
been things that have been tried. I mean the Bush
(04:14):
administration tried no Child Left Behind. Yeah, Barack Obama tried
race to the top, but we're failing in the mission
of teaching our our students. And I think the reason
for that is we have gotten away from basics. We've
gotten away from teaching reading and teaching arithmetic. And so
(04:35):
what we're finding in schools that are showing improvement and
scores is that they have returned to the science of reading,
teaching phonics, teaching repetitive, you know, just memorization like in
mathematics for your times table and things like that, and
then building upon that base. You know, up through third
grade you are learning to read, and after third grade
(04:58):
you're reading to learn, and if you can read, you're
not going to be able to learn. So we found
that a lot of the fall off, if you will,
in education is because we're not teaching the basics, and
so a little return to that basics is great. Now
a lot of other things it can be introduced that
can be helpful, like AI yes, because they're how.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
Far behind are we on technology?
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (05:19):
I mean just because it seems like we're back twenty
years ago and all of a sudden, now are thirty
years ago in technology and we're having these kids go
out in the world. I laughed. The other day, I
was talking to a group of students and the students
said that at they're high school, they were still teaching
them to do photography and develop film. And You're like,
(05:42):
for what reason that doesn't happen anymore?
Speaker 2 (05:45):
You're not going to use is that going to be
their major when they go off? Right a career path
that they want to be on. If it's a career path,
they want to be on them off for that right.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
However, it's digital now, pictures are digital, and they're like,
the teacher has been there and said, well, this is
how we've always done it. That was a sponsor to students.
I'm like, we're paying that salary to someone who's literally
saying I refuse to move forward.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Yeah, And I just think that just goes to the
bigger problem of how I think education is not in
touch with the communities. It's not in touch with the
industries that we need. And that's what we need to
make sure of that we are educating our students for
you know, for their for their livelihood. What you know,
what what does industry need? What does the community need? Uh,
(06:28):
You'll hear most universities say that we want to make sure,
we can keep students in the community when we're when
we're training them, but if you don't understand what the community,
what industry, what business needs, what or what technology needs,
et cetera, you can't construct the proper curriculum to fill
you know, that need, and you'll find we won't be successful.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
When I was going through school, and again I came
from a family of educators that the dream, the goal
was always you go to college. Right, you want to
be successful, you go to college. I think think that
has been a detriment to this new generation of students.
I think there's tradesmen, there's crafts, there's certain things that
you can go into, and this obsession would just go
(07:10):
to college no matter what, which is also I think
we're one of the biggest problems is in public education.
There's a lot of kids and if you just look
at the data, they're not going to go to college,
but they're not prepared to do anything when they leave
high school. Is that one of the biggest things that
we're missing as well that you've seen that we've got
to do a better job of preparing these kids for
real world and trade and I mean, there's great jobs
(07:31):
out there, that you don't have to go to college
for and you can make a great living if they're
prepared for them. But we're not doing that either.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
No, we're not about eight million open jobs in the country,
and we don't have a skilled workforce ready to go
into those jobs. One of the things that I talk
about when I'm traveling, and I am traveling to many
states visiting schools to see what kind of different curriculum
is being taught, both in lower in middle schools and
then you know high schools as well, and we're not
(07:57):
preparing students. And I think we have to change the
culture of education in our country from just exactly what
you were talking about. For your college is not necessary
anymore for many of the skills that we should be teaching.
And there are certain degrees that obviously do require college
education if you're going to be a doctor or a lawyer,
or an engineer and that sort of thing. However, there
(08:19):
are many career paths that don't require a four year
college education. If you're going to be a skilled tradesman,
a plumber and electrician, an h VAC technician, sophisticated manufacturing
like CSR, then you can get certificates that are much
shorter than four you. As a matter of fact, I
am a strong proponent of short term PEL grants to
(08:42):
to help get people in the workforce faster. So that's
really what I would like to see. And you have
to be in touch with your community and with the
needs of manufacturing, with the needs of industry, so that
we can consumert what an other idea.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
Right, you work with people in the community where those
jobs are, whether you're in a manufacturing city or an
it citty or a place like that. So let me
ask you another question. This goes back to the big
issue of what does it look like if you guys
shut all this down and the power goes back to
the state. And this is a really important one because
there's a lot of parents right now that kids are
in failing schools and they really are intrigued by the
(09:15):
idea as well of school choice is part of shutting
down the Department of Education, going back to the states,
giving the states the empowerment to be able to do
things like that.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
Absolutely, the President does not want to see any child
trapped in a failing school, and that's he has talked
about that forever. That's why I'm such a strong proponent
of charter schools, public schools, homeschooling, magnet schools. There is
no one size fits all for education.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
What amazing idea we have an administration actually likes parents,
even in homeschooling. That hasn't I was homeschool when I
was younger, and the disdain from the federal government for
homeschooling has been shocking for decades.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
No, it's absolutely critical that we structure our education to
fit the child. And that's one of the reasons why
is we see technology that can be utilized in many
more ways. I mean from AI. If you think we
can have almost a personal tutor in the classroom one
on one. I saw a demonstration of this last week
(10:13):
that there was a teacher in the classroom at twenty
five students. She had on her screen the twenty five
students who were each getting individual instruction in math, and
she could tell which student was not keeping up on
the exercise and go to that student and repeat things
or reprogram and it was just amazing to see. And
(10:34):
you'll see scores start to come up much quicker. Children
can learn much faster when they're taught in the ways
that they can learn, so as we shut down the
Department of Education. I want to make sure that best
practices are being shown to those states, that we provide
the states with the tools to move forward, so because
that's how they'll have their greatest success, and then putting
(10:55):
the money to them to help support those programs.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
So what a success look like? How do you define
us at the Department of Education for your tenure moving forward?
Is that shutting it down or is that changing the
narrative and giving and going and working with these states?
And what's the timeline look like as well?
Speaker 2 (11:13):
Well, it's not mutually exclusive. It's not either or were
clearly are going to close down the Department of Education,
but that is going to take an Act of Congress.
So we're going to have to work with Congress. And
I've said all along that I want Congress to be
my partner in doing this.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
How's the reception been there? I mean, I see a
lot of these guys in Congress, there's a lot of
pressure from unions. What does the back room conversation of
this look like, because at first, I'm sure when you
said it, there was a lot of people in Congress like,
hold on a second, dial it down.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
It's pretty divided at the moment, but I think that
I'm hoping absolutely that they will be my partner'shen I
show them that I believe the programs that we're going
to put forth and how we're going to do it
will strengthen education. Because the President believes, as do I,
that the best education is that closest to the student.
(12:04):
So if we can provide the best practices and the
tools for those best practices, then I think we're going
to raise the scores of kids in those states and
money will be better spent.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
So when you work at the state level, who are
your biggest allies? There is it governors and state legislatures
that people in education.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
It's all of the above, but primarily the people when
I go and talk and meet with are principles of schools.
There may be some of the local superintendents. Parents have come.
I was there. Let's see where it was. I was
in Las Vegas this past Friday, which was a holiday
for schools, but I had parents, students, teachers coming in
(12:43):
to meet with me to show me what their school
was doing and about the things that they needed, and
it was incredibly refreshing to see that parental involvement is
one of the keys. I think that was the silver
lining of COVID. Parental involvement is really one of the
keys to show how they are supporting their students and
understanding what they want the curriculum to look like.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
It seems like the mentality that you're advocating for is
you know, it was in the last administration parents that
showed up at school board meetings were considered domestic terrorists
if they were saying something you didn't want to hear.
You're now saying, I want to welcome parents back in
the educational process. Is that part of the core goal
as well?
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Absolutely, if you don't have parental support in the local
school systems, it makes the success of teaching I think
in the schools nowhere near what it is when you
see parental involvement. I mean, parents have rights, They have
a right to look at what kind of curriculum is
being taught in the schools, whether it's appropriate for their child.
(13:41):
They should be involved, But they also have to be
involved in supporting the men's school for making sure they're
doing their homework for all of those things as well,
And so hopefully we're making that connection a much more
solid as well.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
Final question for you, and this is one of those
that I think is so important to the people that
listen to this show. There's a lot of people that say,
I want a blueprint of what you need for me
as a parent. Is it going to school board meetings?
Is it going to my legislature, Is it calling my
congressman my center. You clearly need support because Congress has
(14:14):
to go along with you, but they also need to
advocate for supporting their state and their local municipalities. So
if you're a mom listing right now and your kids
in a failing school, your a dad that it says, hey,
my kids in a failing school, tell me what I
need to do. You're in charge. What are you asking
for me? What can they do as a parent to
(14:35):
get involved?
Speaker 2 (14:36):
I think the two best things that they can do,
first of all, is to really be involved locally, because
that's really where it happens. It's at their school or
in their town or in their community. And if they're
in a failing school and there's another school that is potential,
whether it's a charter school or a private school, and
they have the opportunity to move their child into that school.
(14:56):
But in order to have that opportunity. The legislation has
to be in place for them to be able to
do that, and so they have to work locally. They
also have to call their local They also have to
call their US representatives and senators as well as their
local representatives and senators because it's legislation, but it's time,
(15:17):
it's effort. But be involved, be involved.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
And that includes school choice advocating for THO as well.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
Absolutely, I am a strong proponent, as is the President
for school choice. That's why he has been such a
strong proponent for charter schools. And I've been visiting some
charter schools recently on a couple of states that I've
been in to see the programs that they're putting in place,
and they are They're pretty magnificent.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
It's incredible, it's refreshing. I hope this gives people and
moms that and dads are listening, grandparents hope that we're
going to actually have a real impact. You've got a
long haul ahead of you.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
It is a long haul, but and I'll tell you know,
a lot of folks look at what we're doing and say, oh, well,
you know, the Department of Education is really looking to
close down public schools couldn't be farther from the truth.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
That's one of the lies. And we saw that right away,
and that was not the goal here. It was just
to say we want to get rid of the bureaucracy.
That am I wrong in saying it that way?
Speaker 2 (16:06):
Get rid of the bureaucracy. But you know, rising tide
lifts all boats. Schools can be competitive, curriculum can be competitive,
and what we have seen and one of the other
lives that if you will is you're taking money away
from public schools and that's not the case either.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
Lastly, and then I know you got to go, but
I want to ask you, this is this something that
you ever thought would be part of your legacy? And
how exciting is this to say I am going to
maybe get to do something that is grand when it
comes to redefining how we educate kids in America.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
Well, it was certainly something that I had contemplated prior
to the President asking me to take on this role.
But the more that I've gotten into it and thought
about it, and I really do believe that if my
legacy could be to help the president be the education
president and help raise levels of education and to do
what his goal is, which is to provide equal access
(16:58):
to excellent education to every student in the country.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
Lend him Man, United States Secretary of Education, a pleasure.
Thank you for coming on, don't forget. Share this podcast
with your family and friends, share it on social media, please,
and I'll see you back here tomorrow
Welcome. It is the Ben Ferguson Show. It is so
nice to have you with us live from the White
House and sitting in front of me as a woman
that has taken on an almost impossible task. I was
so excited when I heard this name Linda McMahon. And
if you don't know the history of Linda, you need
to google it because she has done some amazing things
in her career. And you get this job. You get
(00:23):
a phone call to become the United States Secretary of Education.
How did this even come about? How was the phone
call that you received from the President? I got to
know the backstory real quick because I think it's so fascinating.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Well, good morning, and thank you very much for having me. Ben.
It Well, you may or may not recall, but I
was the co chair of the transition committee for the President.
So we were putting in place all of the different
cabinet secretaries, etc. And you know, I'm working on everybody
else's department. And the President talks to me and he says, look,
(00:55):
he says, I've got the perfect place for you. And
I said, oh, okay, what are you thinking? He said,
Department of Education. I said, well, you realize that my
background is not, you know, in the world of education,
although I got my certificate to teach and I was
prepared to teach French. I also served on the Connecticut
State Board of Education, and then I've been on the
(01:16):
board of trustees at Sacred Heart University for sixteen years.
I said, so I do have education background. And he said, look,
here's what I want to do with the Department of Education.
I want to shut it down. And so I laughed.
I laughed, and I said, so in other words, excuse me,
I said, so, in other words, you want me to
preside over my own demise. And he laughed out loud
(01:36):
and he said, yep. He said, I do want you
to do that. He said, and here's what I need.
He said, rather than have an educator in place to
do this, what I really need is a business person.
I need an executive. I need a leader who knows
how to manage and can handle this. He said. We
need to return education to the States. He said, I
want to take the bureaucracy out of education, and as
(01:59):
much money as we're saving and doing that, I want
to make sure that the states can maximize, you know,
that money and have the programs that they need in place.
So he said, so I need you to come on
board and do that, and I do that. Yes, II Captain,
I'm ready to go.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
So you get here and you get this new job,
and it's an incredible job, and you're putting yourself out
of business, which is also like a weird mentality to have.
What was the biggest waste of tax dollars that you've
uncovered at DOGE And let's start there.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Well, I can tell you know they First of all,
let me say I welcomed the DOGE group that came
in and has been looking at a lot of the
wasteful spending that has been going on. I think one
of the things that jumped out at me was that
we had about six hundred million dollars that we were
spending on teacher training programs. Now that's so now that sounds,
(02:55):
you know, incredibly like a good amount of money to
be spending on a good thing to train our teachers.
But what we really were finding was that most of
the programs at that point were really focused on DEI training, yeah,
and not on what excuse me you would typically be
looking at, you know, for teacher training. And so we
(03:18):
took back that money, and we shut down that kind
of training program. So that was one that just jumped
out at me.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
So is it fair to say the Department of Education?
And I have a sister, she's in an inner city
school and she's doing the best that she can. My
mom was a teacher, my aunt was a principal. Like
I come from that world. But what is sad to
me is it seems like the Department of Education has
basically decided we're going to indoctrinate kids instead of educate kids,
(03:44):
and we're going to do it in a way with
using taxpayer dollars to indoctrinate them and what we believe
in instead of reading, writing, and arithmetic. How far off
am I on that from a national standpoint?
Speaker 2 (03:53):
You know, far off on that at all? And what
we have really seen, I mean, think about this, Ben.
The Department of Education was established in nineteen eighty and
since that time, we have spent over three trillion dollars
in education, and our performance scores have continued to go down.
And you know, I don't I don't say there haven't
been things that have been tried. I mean the Bush
(04:14):
administration tried no Child Left Behind. Yeah, Barack Obama tried
race to the top, but we're failing in the mission
of teaching our our students. And I think the reason
for that is we have gotten away from basics. We've
gotten away from teaching reading and teaching arithmetic. And so
(04:35):
what we're finding in schools that are showing improvement and
scores is that they have returned to the science of reading,
teaching phonics, teaching repetitive, you know, just memorization like in
mathematics for your times table and things like that, and
then building upon that base. You know, up through third
grade you are learning to read, and after third grade
(04:58):
you're reading to learn, and if you can read, you're
not going to be able to learn. So we found
that a lot of the fall off, if you will,
in education is because we're not teaching the basics, and
so a little return to that basics is great. Now
a lot of other things it can be introduced that
can be helpful, like AI yes, because they're how.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
Far behind are we on technology?
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (05:19):
I mean just because it seems like we're back twenty
years ago and all of a sudden, now are thirty
years ago in technology and we're having these kids go
out in the world. I laughed. The other day, I
was talking to a group of students and the students
said that at they're high school, they were still teaching
them to do photography and develop film. And You're like,
(05:42):
for what reason that doesn't happen anymore?
Speaker 2 (05:45):
You're not going to use is that going to be
their major when they go off? Right a career path
that they want to be on. If it's a career path,
they want to be on them off for that right.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
However, it's digital now, pictures are digital, and they're like,
the teacher has been there and said, well, this is
how we've always done it. That was a sponsor to students.
I'm like, we're paying that salary to someone who's literally
saying I refuse to move forward.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Yeah, And I just think that just goes to the
bigger problem of how I think education is not in
touch with the communities. It's not in touch with the
industries that we need. And that's what we need to
make sure of that we are educating our students for
you know, for their for their livelihood. What you know,
what what does industry need? What does the community need? Uh,
(06:28):
You'll hear most universities say that we want to make sure,
we can keep students in the community when we're when
we're training them, but if you don't understand what the community,
what industry, what business needs, what or what technology needs,
et cetera, you can't construct the proper curriculum to fill
you know, that need, and you'll find we won't be successful.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
When I was going through school, and again I came
from a family of educators that the dream, the goal
was always you go to college. Right, you want to
be successful, you go to college. I think think that
has been a detriment to this new generation of students.
I think there's tradesmen, there's crafts, there's certain things that
you can go into, and this obsession would just go
(07:10):
to college no matter what, which is also I think
we're one of the biggest problems is in public education.
There's a lot of kids and if you just look
at the data, they're not going to go to college,
but they're not prepared to do anything when they leave
high school. Is that one of the biggest things that
we're missing as well that you've seen that we've got
to do a better job of preparing these kids for
real world and trade and I mean, there's great jobs
(07:31):
out there, that you don't have to go to college
for and you can make a great living if they're
prepared for them. But we're not doing that either.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
No, we're not about eight million open jobs in the country,
and we don't have a skilled workforce ready to go
into those jobs. One of the things that I talk
about when I'm traveling, and I am traveling to many
states visiting schools to see what kind of different curriculum
is being taught, both in lower in middle schools and
then you know high schools as well, and we're not
(07:57):
preparing students. And I think we have to change the
culture of education in our country from just exactly what
you were talking about. For your college is not necessary
anymore for many of the skills that we should be teaching.
And there are certain degrees that obviously do require college
education if you're going to be a doctor or a lawyer,
or an engineer and that sort of thing. However, there
(08:19):
are many career paths that don't require a four year
college education. If you're going to be a skilled tradesman,
a plumber and electrician, an h VAC technician, sophisticated manufacturing
like CSR, then you can get certificates that are much
shorter than four you. As a matter of fact, I
am a strong proponent of short term PEL grants to
(08:42):
to help get people in the workforce faster. So that's
really what I would like to see. And you have
to be in touch with your community and with the
needs of manufacturing, with the needs of industry, so that
we can consumert what an other idea.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
Right, you work with people in the community where those
jobs are, whether you're in a manufacturing city or an
it citty or a place like that. So let me
ask you another question. This goes back to the big
issue of what does it look like if you guys
shut all this down and the power goes back to
the state. And this is a really important one because
there's a lot of parents right now that kids are
in failing schools and they really are intrigued by the
(09:15):
idea as well of school choice is part of shutting
down the Department of Education, going back to the states,
giving the states the empowerment to be able to do
things like that.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
Absolutely, the President does not want to see any child
trapped in a failing school, and that's he has talked
about that forever. That's why I'm such a strong proponent
of charter schools, public schools, homeschooling, magnet schools. There is
no one size fits all for education.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
What amazing idea we have an administration actually likes parents,
even in homeschooling. That hasn't I was homeschool when I
was younger, and the disdain from the federal government for
homeschooling has been shocking for decades.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
No, it's absolutely critical that we structure our education to
fit the child. And that's one of the reasons why
is we see technology that can be utilized in many
more ways. I mean from AI. If you think we
can have almost a personal tutor in the classroom one
on one. I saw a demonstration of this last week
(10:13):
that there was a teacher in the classroom at twenty
five students. She had on her screen the twenty five
students who were each getting individual instruction in math, and
she could tell which student was not keeping up on
the exercise and go to that student and repeat things
or reprogram and it was just amazing to see. And
(10:34):
you'll see scores start to come up much quicker. Children
can learn much faster when they're taught in the ways
that they can learn, so as we shut down the
Department of Education. I want to make sure that best
practices are being shown to those states, that we provide
the states with the tools to move forward, so because
that's how they'll have their greatest success, and then putting
(10:55):
the money to them to help support those programs.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
So what a success look like? How do you define
us at the Department of Education for your tenure moving forward?
Is that shutting it down or is that changing the
narrative and giving and going and working with these states?
And what's the timeline look like as well?
Speaker 2 (11:13):
Well, it's not mutually exclusive. It's not either or were
clearly are going to close down the Department of Education,
but that is going to take an Act of Congress.
So we're going to have to work with Congress. And
I've said all along that I want Congress to be
my partner in doing this.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
How's the reception been there? I mean, I see a
lot of these guys in Congress, there's a lot of
pressure from unions. What does the back room conversation of
this look like, because at first, I'm sure when you
said it, there was a lot of people in Congress like,
hold on a second, dial it down.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
It's pretty divided at the moment, but I think that
I'm hoping absolutely that they will be my partner'shen I
show them that I believe the programs that we're going
to put forth and how we're going to do it
will strengthen education. Because the President believes, as do I,
that the best education is that closest to the student.
(12:04):
So if we can provide the best practices and the
tools for those best practices, then I think we're going
to raise the scores of kids in those states and
money will be better spent.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
So when you work at the state level, who are
your biggest allies? There is it governors and state legislatures
that people in education.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
It's all of the above, but primarily the people when
I go and talk and meet with are principles of schools.
There may be some of the local superintendents. Parents have come.
I was there. Let's see where it was. I was
in Las Vegas this past Friday, which was a holiday
for schools, but I had parents, students, teachers coming in
(12:43):
to meet with me to show me what their school
was doing and about the things that they needed, and
it was incredibly refreshing to see that parental involvement is
one of the keys. I think that was the silver
lining of COVID. Parental involvement is really one of the
keys to show how they are supporting their students and
understanding what they want the curriculum to look like.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
It seems like the mentality that you're advocating for is
you know, it was in the last administration parents that
showed up at school board meetings were considered domestic terrorists
if they were saying something you didn't want to hear.
You're now saying, I want to welcome parents back in
the educational process. Is that part of the core goal
as well?
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Absolutely, if you don't have parental support in the local
school systems, it makes the success of teaching I think
in the schools nowhere near what it is when you
see parental involvement. I mean, parents have rights, They have
a right to look at what kind of curriculum is
being taught in the schools, whether it's appropriate for their child.
(13:41):
They should be involved, But they also have to be
involved in supporting the men's school for making sure they're
doing their homework for all of those things as well,
And so hopefully we're making that connection a much more
solid as well.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
Final question for you, and this is one of those
that I think is so important to the people that
listen to this show. There's a lot of people that say,
I want a blueprint of what you need for me
as a parent. Is it going to school board meetings?
Is it going to my legislature, Is it calling my
congressman my center. You clearly need support because Congress has
(14:14):
to go along with you, but they also need to
advocate for supporting their state and their local municipalities. So
if you're a mom listing right now and your kids
in a failing school, your a dad that it says, hey,
my kids in a failing school, tell me what I
need to do. You're in charge. What are you asking
for me? What can they do as a parent to
(14:35):
get involved?
Speaker 2 (14:36):
I think the two best things that they can do,
first of all, is to really be involved locally, because
that's really where it happens. It's at their school or
in their town or in their community. And if they're
in a failing school and there's another school that is potential,
whether it's a charter school or a private school, and
they have the opportunity to move their child into that school.
(14:56):
But in order to have that opportunity. The legislation has
to be in place for them to be able to
do that, and so they have to work locally. They
also have to call their local They also have to
call their US representatives and senators as well as their
local representatives and senators because it's legislation, but it's time,
(15:17):
it's effort. But be involved, be involved.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
And that includes school choice advocating for THO as well.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
Absolutely, I am a strong proponent, as is the President
for school choice. That's why he has been such a
strong proponent for charter schools. And I've been visiting some
charter schools recently on a couple of states that I've
been in to see the programs that they're putting in place,
and they are They're pretty magnificent.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
It's incredible, it's refreshing. I hope this gives people and
moms that and dads are listening, grandparents hope that we're
going to actually have a real impact. You've got a
long haul ahead of you.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
It is a long haul, but and I'll tell you know,
a lot of folks look at what we're doing and say, oh, well,
you know, the Department of Education is really looking to
close down public schools couldn't be farther from the truth.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
That's one of the lies. And we saw that right away,
and that was not the goal here. It was just
to say we want to get rid of the bureaucracy.
That am I wrong in saying it that way?
Speaker 2 (16:06):
Get rid of the bureaucracy. But you know, rising tide
lifts all boats. Schools can be competitive, curriculum can be competitive,
and what we have seen and one of the other
lives that if you will is you're taking money away
from public schools and that's not the case either.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
Lastly, and then I know you got to go, but
I want to ask you, this is this something that
you ever thought would be part of your legacy? And
how exciting is this to say I am going to
maybe get to do something that is grand when it
comes to redefining how we educate kids in America.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
Well, it was certainly something that I had contemplated prior
to the President asking me to take on this role.
But the more that I've gotten into it and thought
about it, and I really do believe that if my
legacy could be to help the president be the education
president and help raise levels of education and to do
what his goal is, which is to provide equal access
(16:58):
to excellent education to every student in the country.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
Lend him Man, United States Secretary of Education, a pleasure.
Thank you for coming on, don't forget. Share this podcast
with your family and friends, share it on social media, please,
and I'll see you back here tomorrow
Host
Ben Ferguson
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