Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
If you didn't see it last week, check out the
updated website. Now COVID dot gov shows a lot of
truth that we were told were absolute lies back during
the COVID phase. Now we're seeing Andrew Cuomo is being
referred to the DOJ for prosecution for what he did
(00:20):
in nursing homes during COVID. I also remember another governor
who told us to wear dann masks that now have
been and effective.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
What you got cut off. Gotta speed it up, baby,
you gotta speed it up, or you gotta you gotta
end it with part one part two to follow.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
Or just you know, brevity you know that works too.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Yes, as I used to tell law students on the
bar exams, brevity is red.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
R e a d oh.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Brevity is red. If you will, you know, get to
your point, get your points discinctly, something which I'm very
incapable of doing.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
Give us the TLDR.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
That's right. Yesterday we spent an inordinate amount of time
discussing due process and both procedural and substantive due process
and why, based upon based upon the territorial jurisdiction of
this country, you are entitled to do process. And I
(01:27):
gave examples of you know, someone who comes to this
country that commits murder, or for that matter, something as
minors of traffic infraction is nonetheless subject to the territorial
jurisdiction of the country. Then yesterday, I'm I don't often,
but occasionally something will pop up on my Facebook feed.
(01:51):
That is, I don't know whether it's in response to
something I said on the program or or it's just
randomly appear years. But yesterday, David, I shouldn't say yesterday
twenty out well, yeah, twenty hours ago, one of the
members of Michael Brown Unplugged the Little Private group on
(02:13):
Facebook posted a meme. At first I thought it was
a meme and that I actually found it was like
a repost to somebody else. But it's got a picture
of uh George, it looks like George W Baba and Obama.
And it's opposed by Steve Crabtree with Michael Mune dated
(02:36):
April twenty two days ago, nine thirty five am. And
it says you can check out Michael mutn blah blah
blah blah, says he's an intelligent guy with common sense
ideas about our world that may indeed be true. I
have no idea who Michael McCune is. However, he is
factually incorrect about what he says. So we're gonna walk
(02:57):
through this because if if this is still a lingering
question about due process, then I feel obligated to address it.
And so we're going to go to immigration law school today.
Here's what the meme says or the post whichever. It's
(03:20):
kind of a combination of a meme and a post.
Did you know? Question mark? Under Obama, over three million
people were deported, but seventy five to eighty three percent
whenever they get eighty three percent, seventy five to eighty
three percent never saw a judge or had a chance
to plead their case. Most were removed through expedited processes
(03:45):
at the border, no court hearing, no trial, and this
is not unique to Obama. Under Clinton and Bush, millions
were also deported without judicial OVERSIGHTSS question apparently, only if
a Republican or Donald Trump is in charge. Well, wait
(04:06):
a minute, only if a republic You just said in
the previous paragraph that under Clinton and Bush and both
Bushes that I know that were president or both Republicans,
So being a Republican has nothing to do with it.
Doesn't that cause you to question, right there there's a contradiction.
Doesn't that cause you to stop and think, maybe there's
(04:27):
something missing in this mean? Then it goes on to say,
so I ask you where was all the outrage? Then
where were the protests against Obama, Clinton or Bush? This
has been standard practice under many presidents before Trump. No
president in US history has ever been required to get
(04:49):
permission from the courts or from anyone else to defend
the sovereignty of their own borders. Why is it only
a problem now? Well, let's before we get to the
underlying issue of due process, I want you to think
about what you just heard. So it starts out with
(05:11):
the premise, and the premise is that under let's take
this all at face value. Because I didn't fact check
the numbers, I have no reason to believe the numbers
aren't true. But because it maybe, let's just take them
at face value. Under Obama, over three million people were deported,
but seventy five to eighty three percent never saw judge
(05:32):
or had a chance to plead their case. So that's
the premise, is that despite my arguments about due process,
there were on face value, three million people that were deported,
which is about seventy five eighty three percent, they never
saw judge or had a chance to plead their case.
(05:54):
Let's take that again at face value. Does that not
raise a question in your mind? Well, if if let's
just say, let's just stick with seventy five percent, If
seventy five percent of the three million people were deported
and never saw a judge, an immigration judge, or an
administrative law judge, does it make you question why twenty
five percent would and seventy five percent would not. Does
(06:18):
that not cause you see, this is the lack of
critical thinking in this country that drives me baddy. Does
it not make you wonder, well, why is that? Why
would seventy five percent of three million people be deported
and never see a judge? And then, of course the
next claim is it's not just unique to Aboma that
(06:41):
happened under Clinton and Bush. Doesn't that further increase your
curiosity that if the premise is true, then why would
seventy five percent of them never get what I described
yesterday as due process? But then they make a jump,
they make a leap. Now they've claimed that Obama, Clinton,
(07:04):
Bush and Bush. So two Democrats and two Republicans were
able to deport millions of people without judicial oversight. But
then they say this due process question mark apparently, but
only if Republican or Donald Trump is in charge. Now again,
if you're doing any sort of critical thinking at all,
(07:25):
you would stop and ask yourself at that point, well,
wait a minute, how can you claim that it's only
true if it's a Republican or Donald Trump when you
just told me previously that not only did Barack Obama
and Donald and Bill Clinton deport people without due process,
but so did Bush and Bush. Again, any critical thinker
(07:45):
would stop and ask, well, why is that? What's what's
going on here? So then they so they've complained, they
they've conflated politics and due process and made the claim
about Obama. Don't tell you any numbers about Clinton or
Bush or Bush, but then jump to this where was
(08:07):
all the outrage? Then? Where were the protests against Obama,
Clinton or Bush? This has been standard practice under many
presidents before Trump. Again, I would ask you at that point,
if if that is a factual statement that it was
standard practice, then where's the critical thinking about? Well, what's
changed that's different between Obama, Clinton and Bush? And Bush? Again, No,
(08:35):
critical thinking. And again, I know it's a meme on Facebook,
but this is how this kind of crap gets spread
so widely and everybody just so when I come on
and explain due process, everyone thinks immediately, oh, well, I'll
see Brown's just trying. He's either trying. It's like the
guy that emailed me from the weekend when I tried
(08:56):
to explain that Kilmar what's his name, Abrego Garcia got
due process because he had lawyers and appeared twice and
had two removal orders. Then the final paragraph, but the
next last paragraph reads, no president in US history has
(09:17):
ever been required to get permission from the courts or
from anyone else. Now, the whole meme so far has
been about deportation, but that's not what this question is. Again,
which I would think would cause somebody to say, wait
a minute, what's the point you're trying to make here,
Because rather than saying what you would think, he would say,
(09:38):
no president in US history has ever been required to
get permission from the courts to deport someone. No, Instead,
they make a giant leap and ask no president in
US history has ever been required to get permission from
the courts or from anyone else to defend the sovereignty
(09:58):
of their own borders. Why is it only a problem now? Well,
let's think about how the facts on the before we
get to the law, because when you hear the law,
you'll go, oh, I understand. But before we get to
the law, what has changed from George H. W. Bush
(10:24):
to Bubba Clinton to George W. Bush to Barack Obama,
Donald Trump and Joe Biden. What's the one most significant
factor that changed during that all those presidencies. And you'll
(10:49):
understand more about why this is important when I get
to the law, and that is that Joe Biden brought
in hens of millions of illegal aliens and did what.
We talked about it in Denver, We talked about it
(11:09):
in Chicago, San Francisco, Los Angeles, New York. We talked
about what Greg Abbott did. We talked about what Ron
DeSantis did. Do you know what that it is? They
brought them into the interior of the country. They brought
them more than one hundred miles from the border. That's
(11:33):
a very important fact to understand. So under the Obama administration,
the deportation process for illegal aliens varied, as it should have,
depending on the circumstances of each individual case, and whether
(11:54):
do process or a hearing before an administrative law judge
or an immigration judge was granted depended on the type
of removal procedure applied, Because there are I would say,
I've got how many have I listed? I've listed five
separate removal processes. You come here to get facts, you
(12:20):
come here to get the law. You come here to
get a more a better understanding, a more thorough understanding
of why some of this crap that you read somewhere
is at such a high level that you don't you
miss out on all the details. So you're gonna get
the damn details today, and I expect you to pay
attention because I think, based on based on the comments
(12:45):
on the Facebook page, uh, based on where I've seen
this similar meme everywhere else, people simply do not understand
the law. So there are five types of removal. There's
standard removal proceedings standard, there's expedited removal, there's reinstatement of
(13:12):
a removal order, there's an administrative removal, and of course
there's always the voluntary departure or returns, a voluntary removal,
if you will. So let's walk through each one of
these before we get to the application of them to
this mean, what's the standard removal proceeding. So a lot
(13:35):
of undocumented aliens, illegal aliens they were apprehended during the
Obama era were placed in formal removal proceedings under Section
two forty of the Immigration and Nationality Act. Those individuals
were afforded due process that included the right to a
(13:58):
hearing before an immigration judge or an al judge a
misrelief law judge. At those hearings, they presented their case,
they could apply for relief such as they could apply
for asylum, or they could apply for the cancelation of
the removal, and they had the right to be represented
by council, though not at government expense. Now, I want
(14:20):
to chase a very short squirrel here, not a government expense.
But we we've discussed ad infinitum, ad nauseum. In my opinion,
NGOs who really do indirectly at government expense, provide at
taxpayer expense, to be more precise, provide legal representation to
(14:44):
these illegal aliens. Why because and this is what we're
trying to clean up with DOGE. The NGOs will get
a grant to provide this plethora of services to illegal aliens, housing, telephones, healthcare,
legal representation. So they get a grant from the federal
(15:06):
government and then they use that grant to hire lawyers
to be a part of their NGO to go out
and represent illegal aliens. So while technically that due process
is not provided at government expense, it indirectly is. Now
(15:28):
that process. The standard removal process applies to individuals apprehended
within the US interior or and I'll explain more about
this later, or who are apprehended right at the border.
But we're not subject to expedited procedures because there is
(15:53):
also an expedited removal process. And here's where most people
don't understand. And what you know, this is fairly easy
to find, well, I should say it's easy to find.
It may be difficult to comprehend because you have to
read federal statutes and sometimes that's pretty's that's a fairly
(16:15):
convoluted process to read and understand a federal statute. So
how is it that some just got captured and removed
and never appeared before a judge, never had a lawyer
or anything else. That's called expedited removal. Expedited removal is
authorized again under the Immigration Naturalization Act, it is section
(16:41):
two thirty five B. One might want to mark that
down for all your friends who think that somehow there's
a disparate treatment going here against Trump. That was used extensively,
but it's used for individuals that are apprehended within one
one hundred miles of the border and within fourteen days
(17:04):
of entry. Got it. So you can without any due process,
if if ICE or CBP capture an illegal alien that
has illegally crossed the border and they're still within one
hundred miles of the border and it's been fourteen days
or less, they can pack them up, put them on
(17:26):
a bus, and send them right back to wherever they
came from. They could even take them to an airport
in El Paso or said Diego and put them on
a plane and send them back to some craphole country somewhere.
That's authorized under section two thirty five B one of
the Immigration and Naturalization Act. So now let's talk that.
Let's die dy digress for just a moment, and let's
(17:51):
go back to what I said. We need to think
about the facts about what occurred that was different between Obama, Bush,
Bush and Clinton, and that was what Joe Biden was
on purpose, purposely doing, and that was get them across
the border, attract them here, get them here, process them
as quickly as you can tell, Immigrations and Customs Enforcement
(18:13):
and Customs and Border Patrol you cannot enforce the law.
We're not going to allow you to enforce the law
because we're going to process them. We're gonna get we're
going to give them a notice to appear, and then
we're going to put them as fast as we can
on a bus or an airplane, and we're gonna ship
from Denver to Denver, Colorado. Now why would they do that?
Because that removes the exbedivor removal opportunity, and that then
(18:41):
subjects them to the Michael.
Speaker 4 (18:43):
What you're saying is that under Biden, the attempt to
keep illegal aliens here were ramped way up. Versus Bush, Clinton, Bush,
et cetera. This is this is really disheartening.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
Did you hear the cat in the background?
Speaker 3 (19:07):
Is that what that was?
Speaker 2 (19:08):
I think it was a cat. I thought it was
a child, then I decided it was a cat. So
it's it's either it's either a cat or a kid.
Speaker 3 (19:15):
Feed the cat or the kid. Don't care just make
them shut up.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
No, I don't care. I just always find it funny
because I'm I'm trying to but I you know details,
I'm listening to the to the background too, squirrel, squirrel,
So yes, what I'm First of all, let's remember there
are different removal proceedings standard removal, expedited removal, reinstatement of removal,
(19:41):
administrative removal, voluntary departure, or even a voluntary return. And
those are the five ways in which someone is removed.
And the standard removal requires this is under section two
forty I'm gonna refer to it as the i NA,
the Immigration and Naturalization Act that requires all the due
(20:05):
process that we talked about yesterday, but there is expedited removal.
And here's the difference that you've got to understand. Obama,
Bush Clinton and Bush told and remember part of this
is before DHS was stood up, So it was the
Immigration and Naturalization Service that was doing all of this work.
(20:30):
It wasn't DHS. It wasn't this cumbersome bureaucracy. So under
Bush forty three, prior to nine to eleven, and then
Obama and well Obama and Bush Clinton and Bush, you
had ins that was doing. They were doing expedited removals.
(20:54):
As people crossed the border, they were being turned around
and sent back. Why, for example, I'll give you this
is a great example. If you were on the interstate,
now I forget the number of the interstate is it ien?
I forget which one it is in Arizona, that you
would have checkpoints that were within one hundred miles of
(21:18):
the Mexican border. Why is that because they were looking
for they were actively looking for illegal aliens, so they
could immediately expedite the removal and send them back across
because they were still within one hundred miles of the border.
And it's a double requirement one hundred miles within the
(21:39):
border and within fourteen days of their illegally crossing. That's why,
for example, many progressives referred to Barack Obama as the
deporter in chief. Now that does not mean that they
didn't allow some to get through, but they did. But
there's a huge difference between what Bush, Obama and Bush Bush,
(22:03):
Clinton and Obama were doing compared to what Biden was doing.
This is why, this is why I was so outraged,
and this is why I think it was so brilliant.
Although it was a double edged sword. It was a
brilliant move on Governor Abbott of Texas and Governor de
Santras of Florida to take those people and say, okay, well,
(22:27):
if you're gonna ship them to the interior, we're not
gonna let you just ship them, say from El Paso
to Amarillo, which is obviously more than one hundred miles,
or from El Paso to Dallas, which is more than
one hundred miles. We're gonna ship them to Denver, Chicago,
Los Angeles, we're gonna ship them to New York. We're
gonna ship them to Martha's Vineyard. Because now you've got
(22:54):
them outside the expedited removal and we're going to show
that this is more than just a Texas in the
Florida problem. So under the standard removal, someone has made
it all the way to Denver, they've been more than
fourteen days here, and they get captured. They get caught.
(23:14):
Now they're entitled to do process. But and you can
understand why this is reasonable. You're less than one hundred year,
within one hundred miles of the border. It's less than
two weeks. You're still trying to you're still trying to
make your way to Denver. They can capture you and
turn you around. And so Biden's whole purpose was flood.
(23:37):
This is Cloward Piven. Flood the system, overwhelm the system,
get them more than one hundred miles. And in fact,
we're going to facilitate you getting more than one hundred
miles outside away from the border. And we're going to
in addition, and this is where you should be the
(23:58):
most outraged at all. At least you've got to give Obama, Bush,
Bush and Clinton credit for this. They allow the Immigration
and Naturalization Service to enforce the law. Biden handcuffed them
and said you cannot do that. By executive order, he
(24:22):
suspended it. He suspended section two thirty five of THENA
so that they could get more than one hundred miles
from the border, more than fourteen days since illegally crossing,
and now boom, you can't use expedited removal. That's how
(24:43):
he flooded this country with illegal aliens. So don't sit
here and say that to go back to the mean, Oh,
Trump's being treated differently, No, Trump's being treated now. This
is why he invoked the A Alien the Enemy Aliens Act,
the Alien Enemies Act, is because he wanted to be
(25:07):
able to use some form of expedited removal to get
them out of here. And that's where the legal challenge
is taking place. It's not because it's Donald Trump. It's
because Donald Trump is trying to undo everything that Joe
Biden did. In fact, I would put more blame on
(25:29):
Joe Biden than I would on Barack Obama, Bush, Bush
or Clinton. Joe Biden is more responsible for the problem
we have today with the courts than any of those
previous presidents. And it has nothing to do with the
fact that it's Donald Trump, other than I would grant
(25:50):
you this that Trump is making a BFD about it.
He's being very public about it, and because he wants
the American people and he wants those in foreign countries
to know, don't come here because I'm going to send
your ass back. So remember you've got standard removal, which
means someone who makes it across at warres, they make
(26:14):
their way to Denver, they find a family member to
hold up with. They then find some illegal job somewhere
working as whatever. They may be working on the construction
side or landscaper or whatever, and then six months, a year,
two years later, they get captured because Trump comes in
(26:37):
and says, I'm going to get you out of here.
Now they're subject to all the due process. Now, why
would we have a process for expedited removal that doesn't
give you due process because it is immediate. It is
within one hundred miles of the border, So one hundred
(26:58):
miles anywhere. You draw one hundred mile line around the
interior of the United States along the border, and as
long as they are within that and it's been less
than it's been fourteen days or less, you can turn
them around, the ship them right back out. Now why
do you think too that suddenly crossings have dropped so
(27:21):
dramatically because there's no longer any sort of NGO or
other effort to get them beyond the hundred miles. The
NGOs have been exposed, the NGOs have had their money
cut off, and they can no longer do it. And
so now that's why you have, for example, you've got
the cartels doing it. The cartels are now trying to
(27:43):
get people outside the hundred mile limit, get them hidden
for fourteen days so that now they can't be subject
to the expedited removal. So go back to the mean,
that's why the mean drives me crazy and it dry
and I know I allowed, I choose to allowed to
(28:05):
drive me crazy, but it drives me crazy because it's
just factually incorrect.
Speaker 5 (28:11):
Real quickly about the meme though, You've done a great
job of describing it and reading, but you are more
than welcome to go to Michael says, go here dot com.
Speaker 3 (28:18):
I have found it and posted it there.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
Do you have a cold?
Speaker 3 (28:21):
I'm fighting something?
Speaker 2 (28:23):
You are just handing me like that's not dragging back?
Speaker 3 (28:25):
Then something's going on.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
So it sounds like you're still are you Are you
out of bed yet? Are you still in bed?
Speaker 3 (28:31):
Which I could still just sound like that.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
You know, you sound like you know, and you're like
laying in bed and you're still kind of half away.
You're like, that's what you're sund like right now.
Speaker 3 (28:42):
Yeah, yeah, Chimney Christmas.
Speaker 5 (28:44):
So business as usual with you, right, Michael says, go
here dot com. You can take a look at you.
Like I said, Michael's dot a great job at describing
what it says. But if you want to see it
and follow along with the podcast, Michael says, go here
dot com.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
All right, now, let's go through just very quickly the
other three forms of removal. There's reinstatement of removal, so
if you've previously been deported and then you re enter illegally.
The Obama administration in particular often used this removals called
(29:20):
reinstatement of removal, and that section two forty one of
THENA Now that process allowed immigration authorities to reinstate a
prior deportation order without having a new hearing before an
immigration judge. There wasn't a little bit of do process,
(29:40):
but it was limited because individuals could request withholding of
removal if they feared persecution. So if they felt like
they were going to be persecuted, if they got sent
back to El Salvador, Guatemala, Hondurs, whatever, the Triangle countries,
they could have asked for I want to claim persecution,
(30:02):
so you got to take me before a judge, and
a judge can make that determination. But it was a
very cursory, perfunctory kind of hearing. It wasn't You didn't
even have to have a lawyer to do it. You
could do it on your own. So that was the
third the form. The fourth was an administrative removal, and
this one's very important because an illegal alien that has
(30:27):
an aggravated felony conviction. Those were subject to what's called
administrative removal under section two thirty eight of the NA,
and those cases were handled by imp listen quick carefully,
because there's a distinction here. Those hearings were handled by
immigration officers, not judges, and hearings before immigration judge were
(30:53):
not usually provided unless there were specific claims I'm not
going to go into, but very specific claims put forth
by the person that was subject to an administrative removal.
And then there's the voluntary removal. There were individuals illegal
(31:14):
aliens that were allowed to leave voluntarily or they were
returned without any formal deportation proceedings at all, often right
at the border. And those cases you bypass formal hearings.
There was no judicial oversight because they were not technically removals.
(31:35):
They were voluntary departures, they were voluntary returns. So somebody
shows up at the crossing it in El Paso at
Warrez and says I'm here illegally, I want to go home.
They'd say, okay, here, We're going to take you across
the border, get out of here. No due process involved
(31:55):
in that whatsoever. So now, what about the facts about
the Obama administration, because that was the key point of
the met The Obama administration deported about two and a
half million people between nine and sixteen. And that figure,
that two and a half million is both formal removals
(32:17):
that included due process, or they were the expedited removals
which didn't include the due process, and it also included returns.
So of all the two and a half million, it
was a combination of all of those, and that's why
he got the nickname from the progressive wing of the
(32:40):
Democrat Party as being the deporter in chief. Now, there
was a policy of the Obama administration which I'll describe next.
Speaker 3 (32:51):
Mike, Sorry about the cat.
Speaker 4 (32:53):
He's always hungry because he's hyper thyroid, and in the
morning when I haven't sent him, he's red you loud,
Sorry about that.
Speaker 2 (33:02):
No, we don't no, don't do no misunderstandings. We're not
complaining about it. We're laughing about it.
Speaker 3 (33:08):
I'm a cat guy. I love me some cats.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
Well, by the way, well I'm just you know, I'm
the guy that whenever you send me a picture, if
you send me a picture of it, you know, like
if Dragon and Missus Redbeard were to send me a
photo of them together, which I'm sure they would love
to because, you know, because they loved me so much.
I would first glance at just them, but then I'd
be looking at the backgrounds.
Speaker 3 (33:33):
The older people they order.
Speaker 2 (33:35):
You know, I can think, yeah, what's behind them, you know,
what's on the fireplace mantle, or what restaurant are the
inn or what's what's the food on the plate on
the plate in front of That's what I do. So
when I hear it talk back, I'm I'm listening in
one ear what you're saying, but I'm listening to all
the background, like are you in a truck, are you
in a restaurant? Are you at home? Are there kids
screaming dogs? That's what I'm doing. I'm not complaining about it.
Speaker 4 (33:57):
That's just that.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
That's just my.
Speaker 3 (33:58):
That's that's the Do you have the show on in
the background.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
Yeah, we've we've had that before where we can hear
ourselves still talking in the background, because you don't, you're
you're just talking while the radio's on. So yeah, we're
not complaining, We're just we're laughing about it. But by
the way, if your cat has a thyroid problem, then
feed the damn cat.
Speaker 3 (34:19):
What's his name? And what kind of breed is he?
Speaker 4 (34:21):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (34:22):
And don't what what what? Why are you talking to
us when you should be feeding the cat.
Speaker 3 (34:27):
That's what the cats think, and.
Speaker 2 (34:28):
The cat's going. I don't give a rats Ask who
Michael Brown is. I don't give a rats ass about immigration.
Feed me, damn it. I got a thyroid problem.
Speaker 3 (34:36):
I like the ones when they got the chickens in
the background when they were feeding the chicken.
Speaker 5 (34:39):
Oh, it hadn't happened in a while. Come on, yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:42):
And then we've had them on like the cattleman and
the ranchers. We've had them out on the rant, right, yeah,
dealing with the cattle.
Speaker 3 (34:49):
Where are you people? Come on, come on, we need.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
Some We need some We need some talk backs with sound.
We need background noise. That's what we need.
Speaker 1 (34:59):
You know.
Speaker 2 (34:59):
I'm always I'm always fearful when we make these kinds
of comments because now we don't have a clue what
we're going to get. I want to finish this on
immigration when we get back. There's more to talk about
it on immigration. And your text messages are right on point.
Don't go away, yew
If you didn't see it last week, check out the
updated website. Now COVID dot gov shows a lot of
truth that we were told were absolute lies back during
the COVID phase. Now we're seeing Andrew Cuomo is being
referred to the DOJ for prosecution for what he did
(00:20):
in nursing homes during COVID. I also remember another governor
who told us to wear dann masks that now have
been and effective.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
What you got cut off. Gotta speed it up, baby,
you gotta speed it up, or you gotta you gotta
end it with part one part two to follow.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
Or just you know, brevity you know that works too.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Yes, as I used to tell law students on the
bar exams, brevity is red.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
R e a d oh.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Brevity is red. If you will, you know, get to
your point, get your points discinctly, something which I'm very
incapable of doing.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
Give us the TLDR.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
That's right. Yesterday we spent an inordinate amount of time
discussing due process and both procedural and substantive due process
and why, based upon based upon the territorial jurisdiction of
this country, you are entitled to do process. And I
(01:27):
gave examples of you know, someone who comes to this
country that commits murder, or for that matter, something as
minors of traffic infraction is nonetheless subject to the territorial
jurisdiction of the country. Then yesterday, I'm I don't often,
but occasionally something will pop up on my Facebook feed.
(01:51):
That is, I don't know whether it's in response to
something I said on the program or or it's just
randomly appear years. But yesterday, David, I shouldn't say yesterday
twenty out well, yeah, twenty hours ago, one of the
members of Michael Brown Unplugged the Little Private group on
(02:13):
Facebook posted a meme. At first I thought it was
a meme and that I actually found it was like
a repost to somebody else. But it's got a picture
of uh George, it looks like George W Baba and Obama.
And it's opposed by Steve Crabtree with Michael Mune dated
(02:36):
April twenty two days ago, nine thirty five am. And
it says you can check out Michael mutn blah blah
blah blah, says he's an intelligent guy with common sense
ideas about our world that may indeed be true. I
have no idea who Michael McCune is. However, he is
factually incorrect about what he says. So we're gonna walk
(02:57):
through this because if if this is still a lingering
question about due process, then I feel obligated to address it.
And so we're going to go to immigration law school today.
Here's what the meme says or the post whichever. It's
(03:20):
kind of a combination of a meme and a post.
Did you know? Question mark? Under Obama, over three million
people were deported, but seventy five to eighty three percent
whenever they get eighty three percent, seventy five to eighty
three percent never saw a judge or had a chance
to plead their case. Most were removed through expedited processes
(03:45):
at the border, no court hearing, no trial, and this
is not unique to Obama. Under Clinton and Bush, millions
were also deported without judicial OVERSIGHTSS question apparently, only if
a Republican or Donald Trump is in charge. Well, wait
(04:06):
a minute, only if a republic You just said in
the previous paragraph that under Clinton and Bush and both
Bushes that I know that were president or both Republicans,
So being a Republican has nothing to do with it.
Doesn't that cause you to question, right there there's a contradiction.
Doesn't that cause you to stop and think, maybe there's
(04:27):
something missing in this mean? Then it goes on to say,
so I ask you where was all the outrage? Then
where were the protests against Obama, Clinton or Bush? This
has been standard practice under many presidents before Trump. No
president in US history has ever been required to get
(04:49):
permission from the courts or from anyone else to defend
the sovereignty of their own borders. Why is it only
a problem now? Well, let's before we get to the
underlying issue of due process, I want you to think
about what you just heard. So it starts out with
(05:11):
the premise, and the premise is that under let's take
this all at face value. Because I didn't fact check
the numbers, I have no reason to believe the numbers
aren't true. But because it maybe, let's just take them
at face value. Under Obama, over three million people were deported,
but seventy five to eighty three percent never saw judge
(05:32):
or had a chance to plead their case. So that's
the premise, is that despite my arguments about due process,
there were on face value, three million people that were deported,
which is about seventy five eighty three percent, they never
saw judge or had a chance to plead their case.
(05:54):
Let's take that again at face value. Does that not
raise a question in your mind? Well, if if let's
just say, let's just stick with seventy five percent, If
seventy five percent of the three million people were deported
and never saw a judge, an immigration judge, or an
administrative law judge, does it make you question why twenty
five percent would and seventy five percent would not. Does
(06:18):
that not cause you see, this is the lack of
critical thinking in this country that drives me baddy. Does
it not make you wonder, well, why is that? Why
would seventy five percent of three million people be deported
and never see a judge? And then, of course the
next claim is it's not just unique to Aboma that
(06:41):
happened under Clinton and Bush. Doesn't that further increase your
curiosity that if the premise is true, then why would
seventy five percent of them never get what I described
yesterday as due process? But then they make a jump,
they make a leap. Now they've claimed that Obama, Clinton,
(07:04):
Bush and Bush. So two Democrats and two Republicans were
able to deport millions of people without judicial oversight. But
then they say this due process question mark apparently, but
only if Republican or Donald Trump is in charge. Now again,
if you're doing any sort of critical thinking at all,
(07:25):
you would stop and ask yourself at that point, well,
wait a minute, how can you claim that it's only
true if it's a Republican or Donald Trump when you
just told me previously that not only did Barack Obama
and Donald and Bill Clinton deport people without due process,
but so did Bush and Bush. Again, any critical thinker
(07:45):
would stop and ask, well, why is that? What's what's
going on here? So then they so they've complained, they
they've conflated politics and due process and made the claim
about Obama. Don't tell you any numbers about Clinton or
Bush or Bush, but then jump to this where was
(08:07):
all the outrage? Then? Where were the protests against Obama,
Clinton or Bush? This has been standard practice under many
presidents before Trump. Again, I would ask you at that point,
if if that is a factual statement that it was
standard practice, then where's the critical thinking about? Well, what's
changed that's different between Obama, Clinton and Bush? And Bush? Again, No,
(08:35):
critical thinking. And again, I know it's a meme on Facebook,
but this is how this kind of crap gets spread
so widely and everybody just so when I come on
and explain due process, everyone thinks immediately, oh, well, I'll
see Brown's just trying. He's either trying. It's like the
guy that emailed me from the weekend when I tried
(08:56):
to explain that Kilmar what's his name, Abrego Garcia got
due process because he had lawyers and appeared twice and
had two removal orders. Then the final paragraph, but the
next last paragraph reads, no president in US history has
(09:17):
ever been required to get permission from the courts or
from anyone else. Now, the whole meme so far has
been about deportation, but that's not what this question is. Again,
which I would think would cause somebody to say, wait
a minute, what's the point you're trying to make here,
Because rather than saying what you would think, he would say,
(09:38):
no president in US history has ever been required to
get permission from the courts to deport someone. No, Instead,
they make a giant leap and ask no president in
US history has ever been required to get permission from
the courts or from anyone else to defend the sovereignty
(09:58):
of their own borders. Why is it only a problem now? Well,
let's think about how the facts on the before we
get to the law, because when you hear the law,
you'll go, oh, I understand. But before we get to
the law, what has changed from George H. W. Bush
(10:24):
to Bubba Clinton to George W. Bush to Barack Obama,
Donald Trump and Joe Biden. What's the one most significant
factor that changed during that all those presidencies. And you'll
(10:49):
understand more about why this is important when I get
to the law, and that is that Joe Biden brought
in hens of millions of illegal aliens and did what.
We talked about it in Denver, We talked about it
(11:09):
in Chicago, San Francisco, Los Angeles, New York. We talked
about what Greg Abbott did. We talked about what Ron
DeSantis did. Do you know what that it is? They
brought them into the interior of the country. They brought
them more than one hundred miles from the border. That's
(11:33):
a very important fact to understand. So under the Obama administration,
the deportation process for illegal aliens varied, as it should have,
depending on the circumstances of each individual case, and whether
(11:54):
do process or a hearing before an administrative law judge
or an immigration judge was granted depended on the type
of removal procedure applied, Because there are I would say,
I've got how many have I listed? I've listed five
separate removal processes. You come here to get facts, you
(12:20):
come here to get the law. You come here to
get a more a better understanding, a more thorough understanding
of why some of this crap that you read somewhere
is at such a high level that you don't you
miss out on all the details. So you're gonna get
the damn details today, and I expect you to pay
attention because I think, based on based on the comments
(12:45):
on the Facebook page, uh, based on where I've seen
this similar meme everywhere else, people simply do not understand
the law. So there are five types of removal. There's
standard removal proceedings standard, there's expedited removal, there's reinstatement of
(13:12):
a removal order, there's an administrative removal, and of course
there's always the voluntary departure or returns, a voluntary removal,
if you will. So let's walk through each one of
these before we get to the application of them to
this mean, what's the standard removal proceeding. So a lot
(13:35):
of undocumented aliens, illegal aliens they were apprehended during the
Obama era were placed in formal removal proceedings under Section
two forty of the Immigration and Nationality Act. Those individuals
were afforded due process that included the right to a
(13:58):
hearing before an immigration judge or an al judge a
misrelief law judge. At those hearings, they presented their case,
they could apply for relief such as they could apply
for asylum, or they could apply for the cancelation of
the removal, and they had the right to be represented
by council, though not at government expense. Now, I want
(14:20):
to chase a very short squirrel here, not a government expense.
But we we've discussed ad infinitum, ad nauseum. In my opinion,
NGOs who really do indirectly at government expense, provide at
taxpayer expense, to be more precise, provide legal representation to
(14:44):
these illegal aliens. Why because and this is what we're
trying to clean up with DOGE. The NGOs will get
a grant to provide this plethora of services to illegal aliens, housing, telephones, healthcare,
legal representation. So they get a grant from the federal
(15:06):
government and then they use that grant to hire lawyers
to be a part of their NGO to go out
and represent illegal aliens. So while technically that due process
is not provided at government expense, it indirectly is. Now
(15:28):
that process. The standard removal process applies to individuals apprehended
within the US interior or and I'll explain more about
this later, or who are apprehended right at the border.
But we're not subject to expedited procedures because there is
(15:53):
also an expedited removal process. And here's where most people
don't understand. And what you know, this is fairly easy
to find, well, I should say it's easy to find.
It may be difficult to comprehend because you have to
read federal statutes and sometimes that's pretty's that's a fairly
(16:15):
convoluted process to read and understand a federal statute. So
how is it that some just got captured and removed
and never appeared before a judge, never had a lawyer
or anything else. That's called expedited removal. Expedited removal is
authorized again under the Immigration Naturalization Act, it is section
(16:41):
two thirty five B. One might want to mark that
down for all your friends who think that somehow there's
a disparate treatment going here against Trump. That was used extensively,
but it's used for individuals that are apprehended within one
one hundred miles of the border and within fourteen days
(17:04):
of entry. Got it. So you can without any due process,
if if ICE or CBP capture an illegal alien that
has illegally crossed the border and they're still within one
hundred miles of the border and it's been fourteen days
or less, they can pack them up, put them on
(17:26):
a bus, and send them right back to wherever they
came from. They could even take them to an airport
in El Paso or said Diego and put them on
a plane and send them back to some craphole country somewhere.
That's authorized under section two thirty five B one of
the Immigration and Naturalization Act. So now let's talk that.
Let's die dy digress for just a moment, and let's
(17:51):
go back to what I said. We need to think
about the facts about what occurred that was different between Obama, Bush,
Bush and Clinton, and that was what Joe Biden was
on purpose, purposely doing, and that was get them across
the border, attract them here, get them here, process them
as quickly as you can tell, Immigrations and Customs Enforcement
(18:13):
and Customs and Border Patrol you cannot enforce the law.
We're not going to allow you to enforce the law
because we're going to process them. We're gonna get we're
going to give them a notice to appear, and then
we're going to put them as fast as we can
on a bus or an airplane, and we're gonna ship
from Denver to Denver, Colorado. Now why would they do that?
Because that removes the exbedivor removal opportunity, and that then
(18:41):
subjects them to the Michael.
Speaker 4 (18:43):
What you're saying is that under Biden, the attempt to
keep illegal aliens here were ramped way up. Versus Bush, Clinton, Bush,
et cetera. This is this is really disheartening.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
Did you hear the cat in the background?
Speaker 3 (19:07):
Is that what that was?
Speaker 2 (19:08):
I think it was a cat. I thought it was
a child, then I decided it was a cat. So
it's it's either it's either a cat or a kid.
Speaker 3 (19:15):
Feed the cat or the kid. Don't care just make
them shut up.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
No, I don't care. I just always find it funny
because I'm I'm trying to but I you know details,
I'm listening to the to the background too, squirrel, squirrel,
So yes, what I'm First of all, let's remember there
are different removal proceedings standard removal, expedited removal, reinstatement of removal,
(19:41):
administrative removal, voluntary departure, or even a voluntary return. And
those are the five ways in which someone is removed.
And the standard removal requires this is under section two
forty I'm gonna refer to it as the i NA,
the Immigration and Naturalization Act that requires all the due
(20:05):
process that we talked about yesterday, but there is expedited removal.
And here's the difference that you've got to understand. Obama,
Bush Clinton and Bush told and remember part of this
is before DHS was stood up, So it was the
Immigration and Naturalization Service that was doing all of this work.
(20:30):
It wasn't DHS. It wasn't this cumbersome bureaucracy. So under
Bush forty three, prior to nine to eleven, and then
Obama and well Obama and Bush Clinton and Bush, you
had ins that was doing. They were doing expedited removals.
(20:54):
As people crossed the border, they were being turned around
and sent back. Why, for example, I'll give you this
is a great example. If you were on the interstate,
now I forget the number of the interstate is it ien?
I forget which one it is in Arizona, that you
would have checkpoints that were within one hundred miles of
(21:18):
the Mexican border. Why is that because they were looking
for they were actively looking for illegal aliens, so they
could immediately expedite the removal and send them back across
because they were still within one hundred miles of the border.
And it's a double requirement one hundred miles within the
(21:39):
border and within fourteen days of their illegally crossing. That's why,
for example, many progressives referred to Barack Obama as the
deporter in chief. Now that does not mean that they
didn't allow some to get through, but they did. But
there's a huge difference between what Bush, Obama and Bush Bush,
(22:03):
Clinton and Obama were doing compared to what Biden was doing.
This is why, this is why I was so outraged,
and this is why I think it was so brilliant.
Although it was a double edged sword. It was a
brilliant move on Governor Abbott of Texas and Governor de
Santras of Florida to take those people and say, okay, well,
(22:27):
if you're gonna ship them to the interior, we're not
gonna let you just ship them, say from El Paso
to Amarillo, which is obviously more than one hundred miles,
or from El Paso to Dallas, which is more than
one hundred miles. We're gonna ship them to Denver, Chicago,
Los Angeles, we're gonna ship them to New York. We're
gonna ship them to Martha's Vineyard. Because now you've got
(22:54):
them outside the expedited removal and we're going to show
that this is more than just a Texas in the
Florida problem. So under the standard removal, someone has made
it all the way to Denver, they've been more than
fourteen days here, and they get captured. They get caught.
(23:14):
Now they're entitled to do process. But and you can
understand why this is reasonable. You're less than one hundred year,
within one hundred miles of the border. It's less than
two weeks. You're still trying to you're still trying to
make your way to Denver. They can capture you and
turn you around. And so Biden's whole purpose was flood.
(23:37):
This is Cloward Piven. Flood the system, overwhelm the system,
get them more than one hundred miles. And in fact,
we're going to facilitate you getting more than one hundred
miles outside away from the border. And we're going to
in addition, and this is where you should be the
(23:58):
most outraged at all. At least you've got to give Obama, Bush,
Bush and Clinton credit for this. They allow the Immigration
and Naturalization Service to enforce the law. Biden handcuffed them
and said you cannot do that. By executive order, he
(24:22):
suspended it. He suspended section two thirty five of THENA
so that they could get more than one hundred miles
from the border, more than fourteen days since illegally crossing,
and now boom, you can't use expedited removal. That's how
(24:43):
he flooded this country with illegal aliens. So don't sit
here and say that to go back to the mean, Oh,
Trump's being treated differently, No, Trump's being treated now. This
is why he invoked the A Alien the Enemy Aliens Act,
the Alien Enemies Act, is because he wanted to be
(25:07):
able to use some form of expedited removal to get
them out of here. And that's where the legal challenge
is taking place. It's not because it's Donald Trump. It's
because Donald Trump is trying to undo everything that Joe
Biden did. In fact, I would put more blame on
(25:29):
Joe Biden than I would on Barack Obama, Bush, Bush
or Clinton. Joe Biden is more responsible for the problem
we have today with the courts than any of those
previous presidents. And it has nothing to do with the
fact that it's Donald Trump, other than I would grant
(25:50):
you this that Trump is making a BFD about it.
He's being very public about it, and because he wants
the American people and he wants those in foreign countries
to know, don't come here because I'm going to send
your ass back. So remember you've got standard removal, which
means someone who makes it across at warres, they make
(26:14):
their way to Denver, they find a family member to
hold up with. They then find some illegal job somewhere
working as whatever. They may be working on the construction
side or landscaper or whatever, and then six months, a year,
two years later, they get captured because Trump comes in
(26:37):
and says, I'm going to get you out of here.
Now they're subject to all the due process. Now, why
would we have a process for expedited removal that doesn't
give you due process because it is immediate. It is
within one hundred miles of the border, So one hundred
(26:58):
miles anywhere. You draw one hundred mile line around the
interior of the United States along the border, and as
long as they are within that and it's been less
than it's been fourteen days or less, you can turn
them around, the ship them right back out. Now why
do you think too that suddenly crossings have dropped so
(27:21):
dramatically because there's no longer any sort of NGO or
other effort to get them beyond the hundred miles. The
NGOs have been exposed, the NGOs have had their money
cut off, and they can no longer do it. And
so now that's why you have, for example, you've got
the cartels doing it. The cartels are now trying to
(27:43):
get people outside the hundred mile limit, get them hidden
for fourteen days so that now they can't be subject
to the expedited removal. So go back to the mean,
that's why the mean drives me crazy and it dry
and I know I allowed, I choose to allowed to
(28:05):
drive me crazy, but it drives me crazy because it's
just factually incorrect.
Speaker 5 (28:11):
Real quickly about the meme though, You've done a great
job of describing it and reading, but you are more
than welcome to go to Michael says, go here dot com.
Speaker 3 (28:18):
I have found it and posted it there.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
Do you have a cold?
Speaker 3 (28:21):
I'm fighting something?
Speaker 2 (28:23):
You are just handing me like that's not dragging back?
Speaker 3 (28:25):
Then something's going on.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
So it sounds like you're still are you Are you
out of bed yet? Are you still in bed?
Speaker 3 (28:31):
Which I could still just sound like that.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
You know, you sound like you know, and you're like
laying in bed and you're still kind of half away.
You're like, that's what you're sund like right now.
Speaker 3 (28:42):
Yeah, yeah, Chimney Christmas.
Speaker 5 (28:44):
So business as usual with you, right, Michael says, go
here dot com. You can take a look at you.
Like I said, Michael's dot a great job at describing
what it says. But if you want to see it
and follow along with the podcast, Michael says, go here
dot com.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
All right, now, let's go through just very quickly the
other three forms of removal. There's reinstatement of removal, so
if you've previously been deported and then you re enter illegally.
The Obama administration in particular often used this removals called
(29:20):
reinstatement of removal, and that section two forty one of
THENA Now that process allowed immigration authorities to reinstate a
prior deportation order without having a new hearing before an
immigration judge. There wasn't a little bit of do process,
(29:40):
but it was limited because individuals could request withholding of
removal if they feared persecution. So if they felt like
they were going to be persecuted, if they got sent
back to El Salvador, Guatemala, Hondurs, whatever, the Triangle countries,
they could have asked for I want to claim persecution,
(30:02):
so you got to take me before a judge, and
a judge can make that determination. But it was a
very cursory, perfunctory kind of hearing. It wasn't You didn't
even have to have a lawyer to do it. You
could do it on your own. So that was the
third the form. The fourth was an administrative removal, and
this one's very important because an illegal alien that has
(30:27):
an aggravated felony conviction. Those were subject to what's called
administrative removal under section two thirty eight of the NA,
and those cases were handled by imp listen quick carefully,
because there's a distinction here. Those hearings were handled by
immigration officers, not judges, and hearings before immigration judge were
(30:53):
not usually provided unless there were specific claims I'm not
going to go into, but very specific claims put forth
by the person that was subject to an administrative removal.
And then there's the voluntary removal. There were individuals illegal
(31:14):
aliens that were allowed to leave voluntarily or they were
returned without any formal deportation proceedings at all, often right
at the border. And those cases you bypass formal hearings.
There was no judicial oversight because they were not technically removals.
(31:35):
They were voluntary departures, they were voluntary returns. So somebody
shows up at the crossing it in El Paso at
Warrez and says I'm here illegally, I want to go home.
They'd say, okay, here, We're going to take you across
the border, get out of here. No due process involved
(31:55):
in that whatsoever. So now, what about the facts about
the Obama administration, because that was the key point of
the met The Obama administration deported about two and a
half million people between nine and sixteen. And that figure,
that two and a half million is both formal removals
(32:17):
that included due process, or they were the expedited removals
which didn't include the due process, and it also included returns.
So of all the two and a half million, it
was a combination of all of those, and that's why
he got the nickname from the progressive wing of the
(32:40):
Democrat Party as being the deporter in chief. Now, there
was a policy of the Obama administration which I'll describe next.
Speaker 3 (32:51):
Mike, Sorry about the cat.
Speaker 4 (32:53):
He's always hungry because he's hyper thyroid, and in the
morning when I haven't sent him, he's red you loud,
Sorry about that.
Speaker 2 (33:02):
No, we don't no, don't do no misunderstandings. We're not
complaining about it. We're laughing about it.
Speaker 3 (33:08):
I'm a cat guy. I love me some cats.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
Well, by the way, well I'm just you know, I'm
the guy that whenever you send me a picture, if
you send me a picture of it, you know, like
if Dragon and Missus Redbeard were to send me a
photo of them together, which I'm sure they would love
to because, you know, because they loved me so much.
I would first glance at just them, but then I'd
be looking at the backgrounds.
Speaker 3 (33:33):
The older people they order.
Speaker 2 (33:35):
You know, I can think, yeah, what's behind them, you know,
what's on the fireplace mantle, or what restaurant are the
inn or what's what's the food on the plate on
the plate in front of That's what I do. So
when I hear it talk back, I'm I'm listening in
one ear what you're saying, but I'm listening to all
the background, like are you in a truck, are you
in a restaurant? Are you at home? Are there kids
screaming dogs? That's what I'm doing. I'm not complaining about it.
Speaker 4 (33:57):
That's just that.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
That's just my.
Speaker 3 (33:58):
That's that's the Do you have the show on in
the background.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
Yeah, we've we've had that before where we can hear
ourselves still talking in the background, because you don't, you're
you're just talking while the radio's on. So yeah, we're
not complaining, We're just we're laughing about it. But by
the way, if your cat has a thyroid problem, then
feed the damn cat.
Speaker 3 (34:19):
What's his name? And what kind of breed is he?
Speaker 4 (34:21):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (34:22):
And don't what what what? Why are you talking to
us when you should be feeding the cat.
Speaker 3 (34:27):
That's what the cats think, and.
Speaker 2 (34:28):
The cat's going. I don't give a rats Ask who
Michael Brown is. I don't give a rats ass about immigration.
Feed me, damn it. I got a thyroid problem.
Speaker 3 (34:36):
I like the ones when they got the chickens in
the background when they were feeding the chicken.
Speaker 5 (34:39):
Oh, it hadn't happened in a while. Come on, yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:42):
And then we've had them on like the cattleman and
the ranchers. We've had them out on the rant, right, yeah,
dealing with the cattle.
Speaker 3 (34:49):
Where are you people? Come on, come on, we need.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
Some We need some We need some talk backs with sound.
We need background noise. That's what we need.
Speaker 1 (34:59):
You know.
Speaker 2 (34:59):
I'm always I'm always fearful when we make these kinds
of comments because now we don't have a clue what
we're going to get. I want to finish this on
immigration when we get back. There's more to talk about
it on immigration. And your text messages are right on point.
Don't go away, yew
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